00:00:01.890 - 00:00:16.140

Mkay. So I'm going to introduce myself again, my name is Ruchi Tiwari. I'm an intern for the Houston Asian American Archive. Today is Monday, May 15th,

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2023, and it is about 4 p.m. And I'm here with Zarine M. Boyce, and we're going to begin the interview. Okay, so the first question is—we're just going to go in chronological

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order—and so the first question is where and when were you born? I was born in Surat, India, July 14th, 1944.

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Thank you. And growing up, what were some s-significant aspects that shaped the culture and time? This could be, like, popular movies, television shows, music, just something that you can recall.

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Growing up, I grew up listening to classical m-music every waking moment of my father's life. So, I guess he imbued a love of classical music in me. My mother influenced me

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by all the voluntary and philanthropic work she did. So, that's what basically has shaped me. Oh, thank you. And we can definitely see that reoccurring in your later life with the work you did [ZB: Mhm, mhm.] with Virtuosi.

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So, that's really nice to see. How would you describe the household you grew up in, including the individuals you lived with? I grew up with my parents.

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I'm an only child, and I had a very beautiful childhood. What were your favorite holidays to celebrate growing up? Parsis celebrate every holiday.

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So we celebrated Eid, Diwali, Christmas, New Year, and of course, our own religious holidays. Could you talk a little bit about the Parsi religious holidays that you celebrated? Well, we have basically two main one—two

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main ones. One is, supposedly, when we landed in India 1400 and something years ago.

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And the other one is, of course, the Persian New Year, which is March 21st. So basically those were the two main holidays. That's really nice that you got to celebrate everything—

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Yes. [RT: From the—yeah.] Parsis have a tendency to do that [laughs]. That's really fun. So, I know you said you were born in 1944 and you were born, I think you said, in India. And [ZB: Mhm.] I think just at the time, I know that a couple of years

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after, there was the partition between Pakistan and India. And so how did this political, cultural, and historical event and its aftermath impact your life? I was very little.

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So, it really impacted my life to the extent that when partition occurred, my father happened to be looking after the business in Karachi. The rest of the family were in India.

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So, we sort of got a little isolated in–in Karachi. I used to spend all my summer and winter school holidays with my cousins in India. And basically, you know, I kind of feel like grew

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up both places in many ways. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. And so talking about your parents, can you tell me what their occupations were? My mother was a lifelong volunteer, philanthropist,

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community activist. My father had his own business. We manufactured domestic water heaters and walk-in chillers. Thank you.

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And what were some values that your parents emphasized in your upbringing? Truth. Honesty. Selfless work for the community. My first recollection of doing

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any community work was when I was about 5 or 6. My mother was very involved with US Care, and we had four garages, so two of them were full of care products that were distributed every Friday to the poor people.

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And my job was to sit and stamp the ration card as they went by the line, so I was very important then, at 5—5 years old. Yeah, [laughs] very integral work. Um, are there any memorable moments that you can remember from your early

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childhood–childhood that you'd like to share that helped— Yes—same thing, well, there's an interesting story. Care sent packages with cheese and certain Americanized foods, which our Desi

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people cannot, you know, don't like. So, this lady threw the cheese in my face, slapped my hand and stormed out. And I was five so I burst into tears and I ran into the house and my

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mother got my maid, nanny, to come bring me out and continue doing what I was supposed to be doing. And then the following Saturday, she took me about 40 minutes drive out of Karachi to a hot springs where there

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were huge alligators. Of course, there was a wall, so they couldn't come up, and there was this stick in the car. So, I wondered what the stick was doing, though my parents never laid a hand on me. We went there and mummy made the driver pick me up, give me the stick, and

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said, "Prod the skin of that alligator." I said, "No!" She said, "Please do it." And I did. Nothing happened. So she says, "That's the skin you develop when you do

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volunteer work." And I still remember that so vividly. So, that was one lesson I learned. Then, when it was my seventh birthday and I asked my mother for the menu for the birthday party and I didn't like it, so I said,

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"Yuck! What a stupid menu. I don't like it." My mother said, "Fine, then you don't have a party. We'll take everything to the orphanage, including any gifts you're going to get. You will call up all your friends and say you've been rude

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and—hope you learn a lesson." I did. [laughs] So, those are things that stand out from my very young age. Yeah. Your mom seems to have a really good hand in, like— [ZB: Oh, yes.

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Yes, yes, yes.] Mhm. Yeah. Showing— [ZB:Yes.] So, moving on, I would like to talk about your college experience. So, who was—and before we talk about that—who was someone you looked up to

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or were inspired when you were growing up and saw as your mentor? The two of my parents friends who really influenced my life. One was Jamsetji Nusserwanji. He was the first mayor of Karachi.

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And the other one was my kind of godfather. Rustomji Cowasji. And they sort of mentored me also. So, that's—those are the two people that

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influenced me. Can you say in which ways that they helped you—that they influenced you? So Jamsetji Nusserwanji—we used to

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meet every Sunday. All my parents and their friends used to have lunch every Sunday. Different people's homes. And we used to meet and he would tell us children stories

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about what one should do to improve the country, improve our community. So, that kind of, you know, he steered us that way. And my godfather, in a way, he always looked out

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for me. He looked after me. If I had a problem, we could—I could go to him. And he–he was very amazing and instrumental. Thank you for sharing.

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Yeah, th—it's nice to see, like, the pillars of support that you had at that time. And then later on in my high school, I went to school in England. I stayed with friends of my parents. Their one daughter was a year younger than me, the other daughter was a year older than

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me. And it so happened that their middle daughter, who passed away, was also called Zarine and my age. So, they kind of had their family back together, and I stayed with them, and they

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were Parsis. But they had been in England for, I don't know, 50 years, 40 years. And they were very instrumental in giving me the English aspect of my life and my upbringing.

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And he was the high priest of Europe in our community. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That's nice to hear.

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I didn't know you had education in England. So how was that, being away from your family? Well, I was at home. I was with people I knew.

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You know, I had an older sister and a younger sister, so to speak, and my parents and I, we would talk every week. They came and visited in the summer and we drove around England. So, you know, there wasn't a problem.

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And every summer and every winter since I was about five years old, I would go to India to spend time with my cousins. So, you know, being an only child, my parents kind of pushed me to be

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warm, friendly, receiving, and, you know, gregarious to a point. [laughs] Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And I just wanted to ask what was the Parsi community like

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where you grew up in your early childhood? In Karachi, there were many; there were about 9000. Now there are about probably just 1100 to 1200. It's dwindled a lot.

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Oh, I see. And is there a reason why? I guess there's a lot of immigration. Parsis generally don't have very large families.

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And so, yes, that's kind of made a difference. So going back to your college, I just want to ask—so what college did you attend, and what year? I attended junior–junior school and did my extra

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A-levels in England. Okay. And was there a particular subject that st-stood out to you that you tended to gravitate towards, or like extracurricular activities? Well, I played hockey, played tennis.

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I did a lot of culinary classes. I did study the arts, I studied color dynamics , so, yeah. Mhm. And we-were there some any clubs that you participated

00:13:02.430 - 00:13:13.170

in, at this time? Not–not, no. My parents belonged to the Gymkhana. So, I did my ballet there, I did swimming there,

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you know, met my friends there. But that's about it. And thinking back to this time, were there any defining moments that you can recall?

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Nothing, really. My life growing up was very easy, very privileged, very blessed. And it, you know, it just—that nothing really stands out.

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And now we're going to move on to talk about marriage and family. So, when and how did you meet your husband? He says I'm the guest that never left, which is true.

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[RT laughs] I am, by professional, the floral and interior designer. And for many, many years, the lady who owned Floral Design of Britain, where I studied, wanted me

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to come to Houston. I did my—I graduated in '73 from there. And every time I'd come to the States, she'd want me to come to Houston and I'd say, "Uh-uh.

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Cowboys, tumbleweed, no." I'd go to LA or New York. And the reason she did is when she first saw my work, it was like a—and I could see it too, in his books: it was like I was a clone of his work.

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But I'd never met him, I'd never heard of him, I'd never seen his books or anything. It's strange. And so in '76, when I was leaving LA,

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she–to go back home after six months—she wanted me to definitely come because he was dying of a rare disease. Those days, we didn't know it was AIDS. And I happened to talk to my parents that day and I said, "Rona

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is on a kick again about my going to Houston." And so mummy said, "Well, now there is somebody we may know that you could stay with." I said, "Who?" Oops ! I said, "Who?" And she explained to me that there

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was a friend of mum and dad's that I used to know growing up. Khan Bahadur Kolabavala. And she says, "His nephew came here a few weeks ago. We couldn't go to the dinner for him, but I'll get you a number, I'll find

00:16:05.400 - 00:16:22.490

out. Maybe you can stay with him. He's somewhere outside of Houston and is a professor at a university with two letters for its name, A and M." So she called me back and she said, "Well, his mother is visiting him.

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He's going through a very difficult divorce. Here is the number. Call and ask only if you can and it's convenient.

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And just stay for two, three days." Okay. So, I thought I was calling up this fuddy-duddy old professor, you know, and he was very nice. He said, "Fine, no problem.

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You're welcome to come." And so I went. I arrived, and the second day in the evening, we started talking about my staying there permanently and us getting married. So, that was it.

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Well, that is a very beautiful story. Yeah, it started the most beautiful 41-and-a-half years of my life. Mhm, and going off of that, what is a quality that you first appreciated when you met your husband?

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Gentleness, kindness. Brilliant mind. Di-did you have any hobbies that you both shared? We learned to share each other's hobbies.

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He learned to love classical music and was on the board of the Houston Symphony. I learned to do a lot of engineering stuff with him. So, yes, we did do a lot of things together . And we were always together because we—he was a professor at A&M

00:18:01.730 - 00:18:17.480

at 33, full professor, the youngest. He was director of his own labs that he had founded. He was not a political animal, so to speak. So, in–in the university, that's all you can go if you're not political.

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So, he wanted—had an idea, wanted to open his own company. And we did, next year, and we were

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very successful. His idea was 20 years ahead of its time. But we were successful with it, and so that's what we did. And I worked with him in the company.

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I ran the company for him; I did all the banking, all the financials things, and it—we were always together. We were never apart, so. Yeah, it's nice to hear how you both grew together

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. Are there any memorable moments that you want to share? Between you and your husband? I think every moment was precious. Our life together was really blessed.

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So, every moment we shared together was—rare, was, you know, unique, so— Yeah. Thank you.

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And do you have any advice for a successful marriage? Yeah. My mother gave me this advice. She says, "When you get married, you change your vocabulary from I and me to we and us.

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And you never go to bed angry with each other." Thank you [laughs]. Yeah, [ZB: [laughs]] that's very smart. So what does your larger family look like? I have an–I have an—my cousin was in Wisconsin,

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graduated from there. And he is here now with his wife. His brother is here. His sister is here with their spouses, their children.

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So I'm blessed to have an extended family in Houston . I have a 90-something-year-old aunt who's —who still has more energy than I do sometimes. So, you know, that's nice, yes.

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[RT: Mhm.] And we have very—we have a growing community here. We're nearly a thousand people now: 800 to a 1000. We have the only Atash Kadeh temple, the Bhandara Atash Kadeh, that the Bhandara husband and wife donated to the community

00:21:02.950 - 00:21:17.150

completely. And it's beautiful. It's the only one of its kind in North America. There isn't even one in Europe. Mhm, and are you talking about the Parsi community here?

00:21:17.150 - 00:21:30.620

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Could you talk a little bit more about how the community, how you've seen it evolve here in Houston? We have a heritage center that just celebrated 25 years

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and we have all our events there. Sunday School is there. The—we have a beautiful library there. We have programs twice a month, once a month, library.

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We have the World Zoroastrian Chamber of Commerce, which my husband was original founder of. So, they meet every month. So, it's very much used.

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Both the Atash Kadeh now and the cen-center. Wow. It's nice to see, like, the— Very active, very active community. Yeah, it's nice to hear.

00:22:13.090 - 00:22:32.180

Thank you. And so now talking about your immigration story specifically to the US. When did you move to the US and how and why did it happen? I moved to the US in '76

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because I couldn't see myself succeed or do what—everything I needed to do in my life in Karachi, Pakistan. And s

00:22:52.720 - 00:23:08.450

o I decided I wanted to go to the Western world, and that's what I did. So, what was your first impression of the US? Oh, I've been here many times before. [RT: Mm.] To LA or New York, so...

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So, I guess it probably wasn't much of a culture shock, but what were things— Most of my parents' friends were diplomats, so I grew up with a lot of diplomatic children, and my parents saw to it that

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I was international in my thinking. So, it wasn't a cultural shock, not at all. Are there any aspects of the US that you found different from your other experiences in Karachi or just

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internationally? Not really, because I kind of grew up, you know, in the whole atmosphere. So, nothing was very new to me, so to speak. So, not really, no.

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And—did your family move with you or was it just you? [ZB: No.] No, my parents came much later.

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I came in '76. They came in '90, '89 or '90 to live with us, and they both passed away here. Were there any challenges that you faced coming

00:24:29.050 - 00:24:41.310

here? No, not at—no. Did you struggle to find a community or did you face any discrimination of sorts?

00:24:42.420 - 00:24:51.350

Here? [RT: Mhm.] No, not at all. No. That's nice to hear. And how did you establish a continued sense of your

00:24:51.470 - 00:25:07.590

culture and identity? By practicing my customs, by practicing things that I grew up with. Celebrating the religious holidays, celebrating holidays.

00:25:07.590 - 00:25:24.300

My food, my culture, my—just everything. Prayers. And I've kept that up. And when you did—and when you did move to the US, did you come to Houston first?

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No, I was in LA for six months. Okay. And so how did you find your way to Houston? Remember I told you that "I'm the guest that never left."

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Yes, okay. Yeah. [ZB: [laughs]]. I just wanted to make sure that was the, like, the official way. Okay. [ZB: Yeah.] And after coming to Houston, what did you find interesting? Mm. It–it was

00:25:57.260 - 00:26:15.120

very diversified city. It was very different to LA. The Texans are more warm and more welcoming. I found that there was a large Indian community, large Pakistani

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community, and a large Parsi community. So, it—that was different. And, you know—my life was blessed here with my husband,

00:26:29.110 - 00:26:44.650

so that was also different, so... Yeah, that's nice to hear. I definitely think, like, the Southern hospitality is something that I've found to be true as well. [ZB: Mhm. Mhm.] What are some

00:26:44.980 - 00:26:58.530

activities that you like to do in the city and places to go eat here in Houston? Well, my husband and I had our favorite restaurants. Tony's, of course, was our favorite. We went at least once a week.

00:26:59.760 - 00:27:15.440

He liked Kiran's. I can't eat spicy food, but she makes it specially for me non-spicy. Now I like Le Colonial, I like their cuisine very much.

00:27:16.760 - 00:27:31.630

He loved seafood. I can take it or leave it, but I'd eat it. Then ten years ago, we bought a condominium in Galveston—more than that now—15 years ago, and I sold it after he passed

00:27:32.020 - 00:27:46.760

away because that was our place and I didn't have the heart to go to it. So we would spend half the week in Galveston, half the week in Houston. He was on the board of the UTMB there—Health.

00:27:49.530 - 00:28:05.470

I was helping them raise some funds. So it was a nice life between two places. Yeah, that sounds very pleasant [laughs]. [ZB: Yeah.] What communities within Houston did you

00:28:05.500 - 00:28:19.410

connect with? I never del-delineated between communities. It was the person I wanted to connect with.

00:28:19.410 - 00:28:30.500

Always. That's a very beautiful way of putting it. [ZB: Yeah.] Next, we're going to talk about religion and spirituality. So what religion do you practice?

00:28:31.610 - 00:28:46.020

Zoroastrian. And can you talk a little bit about it? Zoroaster was a prophet who came to Persepolis in Iran. There is no definitive

00:28:46.650 - 00:29:09.180

year, but it's between 5 to 7 thousand years B.C. When the Muslims came to—and conquered that part of the—all that belt: Mesopotamia, Jordan, Iran, Iraq—all that belt, all the way into Uzbekistan,

00:29:10.290 - 00:29:26.340

Turkestan, there were Zoroastrians. Then when the Moors came down and they conquered, 13, 14 hundred years ago, it was either you're—you become a Muslim, or you're dead.

00:29:26.820 - 00:29:45.590

So, history says that about few boatloads of Zoroastrians, including some priests, set sail to try to preserve the religion elsewhere. They ended up in a coastal

00:29:45.620 - 00:30:02.440

town in India. And they wan—they went to the local Raja and said, "We would like to land here, settle here and make this our home." And he says, "Well you cannot practice your religion."

00:30:04.470 - 00:30:21.250

So, the story goes that they—the priest asked for a bowl of milk and a cup of sugar. He put the sugar in the bowl of milk and stirred it, and so, "Milk is you and your people.

00:30:21.490 - 00:30:33.310

The sugar is us. We will dissolve with your community. Just allow us to practice our religion. We will not convert; we will not do anything like that." And that's how the Parsis

00:30:33.310 - 00:30:47.930

prospered in India. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. That's beautiful imagery and storytelling. And so how has your relationship with Zoroastrianism

00:30:48.920 - 00:31:05.270

impacted your life? I have a strong sense of community, which was imbibed in me by my parents. But then as—I can relate to any community, so it really doesn't matter to me.

00:31:05.780 - 00:31:18.150

It's the people that are important. It's the culture that's important. It's what they do in this world that's important. And so, the Zoroastrian community does a

00:31:18.150 - 00:31:30.370

lot for itself and for others. So, that's important. There–there are scholarships that have been founded. There are different things that have been done.

00:31:31.420 - 00:31:50.440

So, I think it's important that one assimilates with one's original community of birth, but you must not isolate yourself. I find that so many immigrant groups isolate themselves

00:31:51.100 - 00:32:07.390

by just—all the Indians will meet only the Indians, Pakistanis only the Pakistanis, the Persians only the Persians, Zoroastrians only the Zoroastrians. I don't agree with that. I think we're in America, America is a nation of different

00:32:07.390 - 00:32:22.300

cultures, different people. We should all meet together as one. That distinction shouldn't be there. Yeah. And I think that ties back to the metaphor

00:32:23.140 - 00:32:45.630

or the–the met—the story of the dissolving and [ZB: Mhm.] like, coming together, and, like, the very welcoming nature. So, what do you find most beautiful about Zoroastrianism? Mhm. I've grown up in the religion.

00:32:47.800 - 00:32:59.860

To me, the religion itself is important. I say my prayers every day. Every home I've ever had has had a little prayer room. I light my Loban, I do all of that every day.

00:33:00.700 - 00:33:18.030

So, my father gave me the belief in religion. My mother, I saw her pray every day. So, that's kind of—both of them have influenced me, and I

00:33:18.030 - 00:33:34.160

feel that our religion is very simple, very easy. As long as the orthodox people do not mess it up. Which in every community there is an orthodox and a non-orthodox

00:33:34.160 - 00:33:50.400

group and the orthodox people mess it up. That's what I feel. And could you speak to a little bit about how, like, the orthodox may cause some tensions within—

00:33:50.800 - 00:34:09.850

The reason they cause tension is—for instance, they're very intolerant of multi-racial marriages. Very. And of the children that are born of those marriages.

00:34:09.850 - 00:34:26.340

In Zoroastrianism, it's a—if the father is a Zoroastrian, the children can be if the mother is not. And a lot of times they even object to that.

00:34:28.670 - 00:34:42.680

They're very, very insular. Now, the Atash Kadeh is a very unique place because it is open to anybody, any religion. Anyone can go in there.

00:34:44.040 - 00:34:54.870

Normally they're not. And we have two orthodox priests that will not set foot in it because of that. To me, that's wrong.

00:34:56.160 - 00:35:09.490

So, you know, that's one example. The other example is they make it very hard for the children to marry. Because it's a limited pool. How can you marry from 1000 people?

00:35:09.520 - 00:35:25.490

How can the children marry each other? It's impossible. And I've known some non-Zoroastrian wives who are very—much more religious and know more about

00:35:25.790 - 00:35:40.870

Zoroastrianism than my mother did, for instance. And mummy used to say that because we have a Mexican American married to a Zoroastrian. And in fact, we did her Navjote in–in our home

00:35:42.330 - 00:35:58.930

when she was in her 30s, maybe 40s? 40s. And of course we were ostracized by the orthodox people. People were rude, people were mean. But, you know, she knows more about our religion.

00:35:59.390 - 00:36:11.570

She practices it more. Why should she not become a Zoroastrian? And the only reason that the Orthodox people are against conversion, so to speak, is because of what we

00:36:11.780 - 00:36:25.070

promised the king when we landed in India. That was 1400 years ago and that was India. This is a whole new sphere of the world. So we have to change with the times.

00:36:26.740 - 00:36:43.600

[RT: Mhm.] So that's—you know... Yeah. Yeah, I can see in what sense that it–it would be very limiting and yeah, it's nice to see that —like, you want to spread, like, the joys of Zoroastrianism to the greater community.

00:36:43.600 - 00:36:59.790

[ZB: Yeah. Yeah.] So how— All my cousin's children are married to—one is married to, well my—no, all the grandchildren are married to non-Zoroastrians.

00:36:59.790 - 00:37:20.000

You know, I mean that's—happens when you live in a different country. And my mother had something else, which I think is very—you'll like. She said, "Religion is only a historical and geographical way of life." You know, so all religions are good.

00:37:23.200 - 00:37:38.020

Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Very nice. And how has the community in Houston supported your journey with Zoroastrianism? If there's any—I know you have mentioned the temple and stuff, but if there's anything

00:37:38.020 - 00:37:59.390

else you want to share that comes to mind. Hm. My husband and I are considered very non-orthodox. So, the orthodox part of the community tried to give us some trouble from time to time, but you g-gloss over it, you continue

00:37:59.390 - 00:38:15.240

to do what you want to do. You—you know, forge your way back to the path you've chosen. That's very courageous. [laughs] So now we're going to move on to career and community involvement.

00:38:15.240 - 00:38:39.540

So you have done a lot throughout your career and for the community, so can you just go over some of the meaningful career roles that have shaped your professional journey? Mm. Career-wise, as I said, the most—I started

00:38:39.960 - 00:38:56.160

off my career by working with my father in his business. Then I came here and got married and worked in our business together with my husband. When we sold the cons—our company, engineering company

00:38:56.550 - 00:39:11.210

in '97, we were going to retire, but we were not able to because people kept calling my husband. So we formed what is a very unique thing, called a virtual company, where my husband and I were the

00:39:11.210 - 00:39:30.980

principals and we had people like him at the–at the height of their field, the top of their career, who had retired, and they were in our database. So whenever we got a project, we'd match the people

00:39:30.980 - 00:39:45.110

to the project and we'd do the project. So, we did that for the next 20 years, about. So, you know, that's kind of shaped me. My

00:39:45.110 - 00:40:03.350

philanthropic work, my volunteer work, my–my community service. I am the longest-standing Houston Public Library—first the board and then the Library

00:40:03.350 - 00:40:20.120

Board Foundation—member since Mayor Lanier's days. I'm the only one that's been that long. So, that's something that—my mother was very much a proponent of adult literacy.

00:40:20.360 - 00:40:37.180

She worked with Gandhiji in adult literacy as a volunteer. And she taught me that too. And she—they—my parents gave me the love of reading,

00:40:38.380 - 00:40:58.500

and so the library was a wonderful fit when I was asked to be on that board in—can't even remember when Mayor Lanier was on the—was on—mayor. It's probably 20 something years ago, nearly 30 years ago, so... Yeah, those are very profound and notable experiences.

00:41:00.190 - 00:41:16.740

And just going off your love for reading is, is there any book that you're currently reading or something that you really enjoyed in the past that you'd like to share? Actually, I haven't been able to read much because of my cold for the last six weeks.

00:41:16.860 - 00:41:33.100

My eyes were all horrible. My throat was horrible and I can't remember what I've read last. I haven't been able to read because I haven't been able to focus on my Kindle recently.

00:41:33.340 - 00:41:46.040

But I'm an avid reader and I read one or two books a week sometimes. Oh, wow! That's— I am not very fond of historical battle books.

00:41:46.700 - 00:42:02.380

I'm not—I'm—I like some autobiographies. I like a lot of fiction. I like Nicholas Sparks. I'm trying to think of my favorite authors.

00:42:02.390 - 00:42:12.330

I belong to the Stablewood, where I live. Stablewood Book Club. And we meet every month. We have a facilitator.

00:42:12.970 - 00:42:32.100

And I introduced them to one of my best friends, who recently passed away, to one of his books. And they were all very amazed by it, very interested. We were going to Skype him in—Zoom him in, but unfortunately, he passed

00:42:32.100 - 00:42:48.570

away four days before the meeting. So, those books are of great value to me because he wrote four books and each one of them is very personal to me because I

00:42:48.570 - 00:43:07.840

recognize people, things, events, and the vein going through his books, so... Yeah, I'm very sorry to hear about the passing. [ZB: Yeah.] If you like—would you share the name of the

00:43:07.840 - 00:43:18.970

author? Yeah. Irshad Abdul Kadir. Thank you. And, yeah, I hope one day to have the same appetite for reading that you've had.

00:43:19.000 - 00:43:34.340

[ZB: You have to have time.] Yeah. [laughs] So, I wanted to ask, I know earlier you talked about home decoration and your career–and your career with floral–floral design.

00:43:34.920 - 00:43:51.210

Have you ever considered starting that in the US or, like, carrying that over? In the US, floral design is very competitive , very cutthroat, and very time-consuming.

00:43:51.780 - 00:44:09.900

If you own a flower design business, it owns you, and I did not want that to happen because of what I had with my husband. And interior design is now gone past my expertise.

00:44:10.690 - 00:44:28.480

I have a very good eye. I decorate my own homes. If you like, I'll send you a video of my home and some pictures, but–I'd love to have you come and eat a meal with me whenever you—where do you live? Oh, I live in, it's

00:44:28.640 - 00:44:41.110

Cypress. Okay, just come, just down–down 10. Yeah. I don't know my roads too well, but— [laughs] I can send you pinpoint directions.

00:44:41.110 - 00:44:47.830

[RT: Yeah.] Come and have a meal with me. I'd love to meet you. Oh, thank you. [laughs]

00:44:48.490 - 00:45:06.930

And I'll send you some things on the house. And I do all my own homes, have done. And, you know, so. And can you talk a little bit about what floral design is, exactly what it

00:45:06.930 - 00:45:18.000

involves? Floral design can be many things. You could be a floral designer only for large parties, large weddings, things like that.

00:45:18.030 - 00:45:36.290

Or you can have a flower shop and be a designer. So basically, those are the two things. Yeah. And I guess I'm always buying, like, flower bouquets; do you have any advice about just, like, the, like, keeping flowers

00:45:36.440 - 00:45:47.990

like healthy and like the longevity? Don't put aspirin in roses. That's–that's a myth. [RT: Okay.] It likes a little sugar and a few drops of Clorox in the vase.

00:45:48.740 - 00:45:59.960

Okay. Yeah. What else? Orchids. Don't put ice on them. They're tropical, they'll die.

00:46:00.470 - 00:46:14.990

Take them to the sink once a week and let the water run through. [laughs] Thank you. And do you have a favorite flower or— I love the tuberose, what we call a "gulchadi" in India.

00:46:15.470 - 00:46:32.250

Okay. [laughs] I don't think I'm familiar, but I'll definitely look it up afterwards. So—next I'd like to talk–talk about I know you—in your resume, I saw that you spent some time in the media hosting a home decor and entertaining channel.

00:46:33.300 - 00:46:50.980

Can you share a bit about that experience and how it helped shape you? That was a long time ago in Karachi in the—ooh, I want to say early 70s, maybe late 60s. And I only did it for six months because it was a

00:46:50.980 - 00:47:07.680

lot of exposure in a Muslim country and that was not very nice. So my father didn't want me to continue. [RT: Thank you for sharing.] But the program was very successful. [RT: Oh.] It was once a week.

00:47:08.790 - 00:47:23.280

Yeah, that's very nice to hear. So–so I know you talked about how you and your husband started the engineering company together, and then also the consulting group afterwards.

00:47:24.120 - 00:47:34.320

So how has it been sharing a professional working space with your husband through both of these– Never had a problem. Never. We worked beautifully together.

00:47:35.170 - 00:47:52.840

Mhm. And so– so what are your views on Asian American contributions to the engineering industry in the US? I think they're very good.

00:47:53.640 - 00:48:10.400

For the percentage of Asian Americans, their weight is felt in the community. You know, my husband was world famous. He is the only engineer to have written four best

00:48:10.760 - 00:48:29.470

-selling technical books. And—so yes, there is a lot of contribution and it's disproportionate to the–t o the population, so to speak.

00:48:32.010 - 00:48:47.130

Yeah. Thank you for that. And what are your thoughts on the US competitive edge in power generation in the international markets? We're beginning to lose it.

00:48:47.130 - 00:49:08.660

[RT: Oh.] Because we have too many restrictions, constrictions, and we're hoping to change it. A friend of ours has just started an–an energy investment company.

00:49:08.900 - 00:49:21.820

You may know him, Bobby Tudor. He was the chairman of Rice Board for many years. And he's going about it the right way I think. I-I've got to have a conversation with him.

00:49:21.830 - 00:49:39.410

I'm still cons—continuing our consulting company. I still have some small projects, but my husband was our biggest biller, invoicer. So, you know, I'm struggling, but I'm going through it,

00:49:39.410 - 00:49:54.170

getting it done. So there is—we have to keep a very competitive edge. To be able to do that, we have to have less restrictions, less laws.

00:49:55.450 - 00:50:10.480

You know, that's the thing. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Next, I would like to talk about—so I know the arts have shaped a meaningful part of both your professional and personal

00:50:10.480 - 00:50:27.800

contributions. So, how did you come to enjoy the arts and why do you believe that it's important for the community? Especially music is where my forte is. I think music lifts the soul.

00:50:27.800 - 00:50:44.310

And my father used to say, "You close your eyes and you listen to a classical piece of music or an opera, and you can imagine you are miles away in a completely different world." And that's what I think music

00:50:44.770 - 00:51:00.930

does. Music is–is—I think it feeds the soul, more than any other arts medium. Because you can feel it.

00:51:01.680 - 00:51:19.440

You can only see paintings, you can only read books and imagine. But the music, it really vibrates and you feel it. So—especially classical music. To me that is, you know, what I listen to all the time.

00:51:20.620 - 00:51:33.610

Yeah, yeah. I think it is something that tends to stay with people and resonates. And I know myself, I like putting on classical music just in the background when I'm studying. [ZB: Mhm.] It kind of helps ease the mind and stuff.

00:51:34.090 - 00:51:49.620

So—and also, why did you bel—why do you believe that it's important for—actually, no, you already answered that. Sorry. [laughs] So,

00:51:49.620 - 00:52:11.550

can you. ..so, from your time as a—I know on the resume, you–you said that you were a substitute teacher for a little bit. So, from your time as a substitute teacher and to your involvement with the Virtuosi of

00:52:11.550 - 00:52:26.640

Houston to UNICEF and the Houston Public Library Foundation, serving the needs of children and multicultural backgrounds is very important. So, why have you chosen to dedicate your time to these areas of service and—

00:52:26.640 - 00:52:40.270

Because I feel you are molding young lives. You are hopefully influencing for the better, giving them something else to lean on. I think that's important.

00:52:40.450 - 00:52:56.000

Opening a new world for people—children. Yeah, that's very well said. Thank you. And so I know a large part of your contributions have been to the Virtuosi of Houston.

00:52:56.000 - 00:53:10.750

So how is being a part of that organization and helping you grow in so many ways contributed to your life? I was brought into Virtuosi by a friend of mine who was running it but was going to retire out of Houston.

00:53:12.290 - 00:53:29.400

And she told me that, "Zarine," that "I want you to take it over and do what you do with organizations." So I said, "Children playing classical music, do I want it ruined for me?" So she says, "No, go to one concert.

00:53:30.430 - 00:53:44.930

If you're blown away, it's yours. If you're not, I'll find someone else." So we went, and that was it. I did it for 17 years.

00:53:46.430 - 00:54:03.660

I ended up with a half-a-million-dollar budget. I took the children twice to Europe, Paris, and England. I had a program with HISD, had a program of the quartets.

00:54:03.780 - 00:54:20.290

We—I started the–the summer camp, a lot of different programs. But then I became famous doing Virtuosi, and two board members couldn't

00:54:21.340 - 00:54:40.300

fathom that, did not like it. And one of them wanted me to hire somebody he thought was great; she couldn't even write her resume right. And when she came and I asked her questions, and I said, "Do

00:54:40.300 - 00:54:59.560

you—can you read a financial report?" "When am I going to do that? You have a treasurer." I said, "Okay." I said, "Can you write a proposal?" "No, you should–should have a grant writer." I said, "What are you supposed to do?" "I don't know."

00:54:59.800 - 00:55:19.050

So, that was my interview with her, so I said, "No !" Well, he got mad with me and he influenced another board member. And I had a meeting less than three weeks after my husband passed away because it had to happen in January, and at–at

00:55:19.920 - 00:55:37.530

our home, and he t ried to force me to hire her again at that board meeting, and I said, "No. If you want me back as the president and chairman, no." So,

00:55:37.530 - 00:55:51.280

he was very rude to me, so I had to run out because I was, as it is, very raw after losing my husband. So, I ran out of the room and by the time I came back, she was hired. And I was forced out.

00:55:52.910 - 00:56:02.660

Completely, totally forced out. Never happened in my life. And now they have no pro—all the programs are canceled. They're bankrupt.

00:56:03.920 - 00:56:22.480

They're barely surviving. And that's, you know, that's life. That's a very sad, sad thing in my life because I wanted to take them to great heights, and whatever I took them in 17 years has

00:56:22.480 - 00:56:36.650

totally been negated, and it's very sad. They're back to where they were, doing three concerts a year, that's it. And, you know, they're not getting any of the funding. No one's writing the grants.

00:56:36.650 - 00:56:49.300

Everybody's being fired but one person. So, I don't know what's going to happen. Yeah. I'm sorry to hear about the difficult period. Yeah, yeah. That's very sad part of my life.

00:56:49.300 - 00:57:02.530

[RT: Mhm.] But yeah, your contributions will definitely—have not been gone unnoticed. And– My mother used to say, "You do things when you work for nonprofits,

00:57:02.920 - 00:57:19.870

not to be written up, not to be thanked. You do them because you see they're necessary to do." You know, so—and I believe always that growth is very important to any organization, be it a

00:57:19.870 - 00:57:33.950

business, be it a nonprofit. So you have to continually evolve and grow, but, you know. And I guess going off the growth, and I guess I

00:57:34.100 - 00:57:48.710

remember looking at the resume and all the co—and all the events that you co-chaired and the galas you helped and, like, the money you raised. Do you have any advice about how to make those connections and help organizations grow in those ways?

00:57:50.100 - 00:58:07.200

I was lucky enough that I met a lot of people through our business, knew a lot of people by my going to events and Meherwan going to events. We did a lot of entertaining in our home for charity.

00:58:09.180 - 00:58:26.720

And we raised a lot of money in our home for charities. And so, you just make your cause so important and passionate for you

00:58:26.990 - 00:58:41.550

that it comes across when you're selling it . And that's what gets you the money. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. [laughs] So, I know t

00:58:43.480 - 00:58:57.560

hat you have worked at both local and international levels with UNICEF. So, what have you learned about making connections and creating change? UNICEF is very successful in creating change.

00:58:58.660 - 00:59:17.050

But like every large organization, it's gone through its trials and tribulations and differences. One of the differences I had when I was on the national board in New York was that UNICEF is a Baby-Friendly

00:59:18.310 - 00:59:37.470

organization. That means it believes in mother's milk. Well yeah, sure, if your mother is well-nourished. But if she's undernourished and in a very poverished part of the world, where she doesn't even have one meal a day but has a

00:59:37.470 - 00:59:55.520

baby, why are we refusing t he millions of dollars of milk, powdered milk, that we get to give to these countries ? And that was my pet peeve and my pet fight with them.

00:59:57.390 - 01:00:15.860

They didn't want Glaxo, they didn't want any of those people to distribute any milk powder, but I said, "Look, I come from that country. I know that–that people don't have—the mothers don't have milk. They're not–they're not undernourished." "Oh, but the babies get dysentery."

01:00:15.890 - 01:00:27.460

I said, "No! UNICEF has a very good program to teach them how to boil the mil—boil the water, and then make the milk." But, you know, it's one of the things.

01:00:29.910 - 01:00:47.190

Yeah, that's a very important perspective that you offered. And yeah, it's sad to see that they weren't able to totally welcome that. So the next question is, of all the nonprofits that you have served in Houston, which one has

01:00:47.190 - 01:01:00.690

been your most favorite? Closest to my heart has been Virtuosi because it was touchy-feely. I could see the results. I can—I see where our children have graduated.

01:01:01.890 - 01:01:20.210

One is with the Berlin Opera Orchestra as a principal cellist. One is a principal flautist with the Flemish Orchestra and in other orchestras around Europe. Oh, but 9-10 are teachers.

01:01:20.600 - 01:01:39.530

So I see those results and I see th-that is one w-way of making sure that music survives generations. So, that's–that's important. Yeah. That–that is very true that you've really

01:01:40.310 - 01:01:54.750

given and encouraged the music to live on. [ZB: Mhm.] And I just wanted to ask, I know you're definitely an enjoyer of classical music and the orchestra, but did you ever play an instrument?

01:01:55.320 - 01:02:06.950

I used to play the piano. I was a child prodigy, but at age 12 and 13, I refused to play scales. And I rebelled and I stopped learning.

01:02:06.950 - 01:02:14.050

Big regret. Now I can't even read a note. Oh, my god. You were a child prodigy! [laughs]

01:02:14.150 - 01:02:30.120

Yeah! At ten years old, I did a concert in the British High Commission, playing Schubert, so yeah. Wow. That's very amazing.

01:02:30.120 - 01:02:44.970

[laughs] Now, I can't even read a note, so. Thank you for sharing that, that's— so, if you were to write a memoir, what would the

01:02:45.090 - 01:03:01.170

title of your book be and why? My unique life. [RT laughs] A lot of people have asked me to, Ruchi, but I'm not the one to—I can't, my back is very bad.

01:03:01.190 - 01:03:17.170

I can't sit at the computer and write all day. And you need to be able to do that. I mean, Irshad, when he wrote his four books, he literally worked from ten in the morning till six in the evening except for lunch break, even in his 80s.

01:03:17.180 - 01:03:32.430

So, I am looking for a good ghostwriter, if you know anybody. [laughs] I do not. But I do hope that you find somebody because you have— I found one but she wants $35,000 to start with.

01:03:34.350 - 01:03:48.030

[RT: [laughs]] I don't think my memoirs are that important. Yeah, well, I hope you find the right fit, because [ZB: Thank you, thank you.] you have a lot of interesting stories and just a lot of things to share that I very much have enjoyed.

01:03:48.270 - 01:04:01.620

[ZB: Thank you.] So next, talking about retirement and the future. So, how do you spend your time in retirement and what are some hobbies that you enjoy or have picked up?

01:04:01.710 - 01:04:16.980

I am not retired. I still work at the company every day. I still work at the Houston Public Library. I still, I'm on the Moore School of Music Advisory Board. So I'm active.

01:04:17.520 - 01:04:33.520

I do a lot of entertaining even today, less, but I do for different charities, so I am extremely busy. Yeah, I apologize.

01:04:33.520 - 01:04:48.160

I think I saw on the questionnaire that you had put "retired," so that is— [ZB: Yeah.] Yeah, I—supposedly, but never happened. [laughs] Okay. Well, that's— so I guess—o

01:04:52.240 - 01:05:04.900

r what are your short-term and long-term goals that you're looking forward to? I'm 78. Can't have much of a long-term goal. [RT laughs] My short-term goal is to be able to make my business more successful

01:05:05.710 - 01:05:22.590

. To do different things for the library and the Moore School of Music. I am physically challenged now, so I find it hard to go. But me and my electric buggy go everywhere.

01:05:23.160 - 01:05:40.800

So, I try. And...I don't know, I still want to continue to be able to do what I'm doing, which is raise money for different charities, sit on different boards, and just be

01:05:40.800 - 01:05:51.180

active. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And if I could just ask, in what ways are you hoping to grow the business?

01:05:52.070 - 01:06:08.320

Just more billing is growth. More joint ventures is growth. Yeah. And I guess your work with the Houston Public Library, is there any projects that you are excited about or

01:06:08.500 - 01:06:22.990

anything? I have not been attending for the last two months, last two meetings, because of this stupid cough and cold, but I've always been interested in their literacy

01:06:23.620 - 01:06:41.490

programs. Always been interested in the raising of funds for our—some of our new libraries that need a lot of work. So, you know, I do all of that. And I'm the vice chair of the board, so.

01:06:43.210 - 01:06:57.910

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. So—the last part is about just sh-sharing your perspective on a few things. So how would you describe the Asian American and South Asian American

01:06:57.910 - 01:07:14.780

communities in Houston? Very insular. They need to be more–they need to be more out with other people. They don't need to make the distinction that, "He's a Chinese, so I like

01:07:14.780 - 01:07:28.890

him, I'll give him business." Or "She's American. I'll give her—I'm American, so I'll give them business," or I'm—you know. It—the-there's too much of that still going on. And I think it should not go on.

01:07:30.050 - 01:07:41.130

We're in an international world now. And we should only do things by merit. Mhm. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

01:07:41.440 - 01:07:57.950

What are your hopes for Asian Americans and South Asian Americans in the US? That they would prosper, which they are doing. That they will mix more with the base of the American

01:07:58.490 - 01:08:14.860

community. They'll absorb more from this–this wonderful country we live in, we have the privilege to live in and the freedoms we enjoy. Mm. Yeah, s—yeah.

01:08:14.860 - 01:08:29.040

Thank you. And do you have any advice for people interested in bridging cultures, nations, communities, and just getting involved? Go there, stick your hand out. Shake someone's hand and say, "I'm here to work."

01:08:32.100 - 01:08:53.660

[laughs] Very wise. And what is something that you have learned and are most proud of over the course of your life? Learned in what aspect? I guess it could be learned from a mistake or anything, or just—y

01:08:53.870 - 01:09:13.400

eah. Some wisdom that you've gained. I think the wisdom I've gained in all these years of—at being 78 now is that you always listen. Put yourself in that person's place and then talk.

01:09:16.430 - 01:09:28.320

Yeah. Thank you. And what is something that you've been most proud of over the course of your life? My volunteer work. I hope I've made a d-difference.

01:09:29.720 - 01:09:44.800

And being a good wife to my husband. I mean we had a very unique marriage, a wonderful marriage. And I—only regret in my life is I still don't know how to live without him.

01:09:44.800 - 01:10:01.650

You know, so. Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that. And, before I end the interview, I just wanted to ask, is there anything else you'd like to ask or share?

01:10:03.010 - 01:10:08.080

I can't think of anything. Call me back if you have anything.