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KL: Today is October 13th, 2023. KL: My name is Karis Lai and I'm here today with Wendy Liu on behalf of the Houston Asian KL: American Archive at Rice University. KL: So, let's just start from the beginning, and could you please state your full name

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KL: and when and where you were born? WL: Hi. My name is Wendy Liu. WL: My Chinese name is Liu Wen Miao. WL: And I also have a stage name of Wen Liu.

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WL: So, that's a long introduction. WL: I currently work as a geo solution geophysicist for SLB, WL: also known as Schlumberger Geo Solutions, and also WL: I am a producer and film scoring musician for LiangChen Film

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WL: Studio. KL: Nice, awesome. KL: So, I guess starting all the way back at the beginning, I noticed on your survey that you KL: have one sibling, and I was wondering first, are they brother or sister?

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WL: It's a little brother ten years younger than me. WL: I was actually his legal guardian over his high school years. KL: Wow. Really? WL: So, yeah, when he was 15 and I was about 24, 25,

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WL: I was two years into my career, and I was able to buy a WL: house at the best public school district in Houston, and have WL: him come all the way from China to the US to live with me. WL: So, I played the role of dad, mom, and big sister, and I also

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WL: kind of helped him with schoolwork and extracurricular activity planning, college WL: application, and he ended up going into UC Berkeley. KL: Wow. That's crazy. KL: I'm so impressed.

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KL: Was that, like, a very, like, do you feel like that changed your KL: life trajectory at all, being, like, that [WL: Yeah.] person for him. WL: I realized that I'm more than a nerd, right? WL: I can be–I can be nurturing as well, not necessarily always a nerd.

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WL: And that is also—it was—I was—actually, I had WL: my first official song during my brother's time here, and WL: that was because my family visited WL: us, and when they were leaving after that two week

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WL: visit, my mom—or actually, you know, long story short, it's my stepmom. WL: It's my brother's mom. WL: And she was holding her boy crying, doesn't want to leave WL: because her, you know, airplane going back to China is in two hours and she was

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WL: crying. And that scene just triggered me. WL: And I wrote a song basically saying, you know, WL: "It's okay, your children's flying away. WL: Please go find your own life because your children are going to find their lives and

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WL: they're always going to love you." And that's my first official production. WL: So yeah, that changed my life. KL: That's a really—that's a—that's an amazing story. KL: Going back to your early life, how would you describe the household or

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KL: neighborhood that you grew up in? WL: So, I grew up in Chengdu, China. WL: Chengdu is a big city in China. WL: Chengdu to China is sort of like Houston to the US.

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WL: It's actually on the roughly same latitude as well. WL: Same climate, more humid than Houston, actually. WL: We have—it's a pretty urban setting, WL: and I grew up living in buildings of apartments.

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WL: I was a introvert growing up, so I didn't get to play, like, you WL: know, if you grew up in rural areas, you get to play on a farm, and climb trees, and catch WL: fish. I don't get that luxury. WL: I usually—I love to, you know, stay in my room and read.

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WL: That is kind of what I do. WL: And obviously playing music. WL: I always love playing the piano and singing since I was young. WL: So, in terms of the upbringing experience, I grew up in a big city.

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WL: I'm kind of an introvert, and I spend most of my leisure time doing WL: quiet, you know, stuff on my own, such as reading and doing music. KL: As a fellow, like, introvert, and I did all the things that you do. KL: I can definitely relate to that.

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KL: A big reader, [WL: Yeah.] a big singer, I love singing. KL: I was wondering what your parents' occupations were when you were growing up? WL: Sure. So, there are three very important adults in my upbringing. WL: My father, my biological mother, and my stepmother.

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WL: And my stepmother became my guardian when I was six year old, and she is very kind to WL: me. My father majored in physics and I followed WL: his step. He went on to get a Master in finance WL: and economics and became a businessman.

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WL: So, he is an entrepreneur. WL: He proudly has, you know, been financially successful, and WL: he has, you know, been in investment for different industries. WL: Right now, he lives in Irvine and still has business in China that he

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WL: runs. So, my biological mother left me–––well, WL: she didn't leave me, you know, she didn't mean to leave me—it's just a divorce, and I WL: was given to my dad. WL: She went on to get a PhD in Japan, and then after that she became

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WL: a professor at Fudan University, which is like Yale or Harvard in China. WL: So Fudan University in Shanghai. WL: And then, my stepmother. WL: She has always been a government clerk, so.

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WL: So all three of my parents, so to speak, are educated. WL: They got college degrees or more, and they have been having WL: a job in the industry. WL: My dad has been, you know, in business.

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WL: My biological mother is an economics, and my stepmother is actually—she's a WL: English major and does a lot of translation work to all of those WL: diplomacy stuff, so. KL: I see that you have very smart genes in your family.

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KL: It definitely— WL: Oh, I don't know. [KL: Mhm?] Yeah. I think my brother is much better off than me. WL: He is already a PhD in computer science at UPenn, which is an Ivy League school, WL: I'm very proud of him, so.

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WL: Yeah. KL: Wow. I was wondering in what ways, I guess you kind of alluded to it, KL: in the way that you followed your father. KL: You said into, like, the physics type path?

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KL: But what ways do you feel that you're most similar to your father, or your biological KL: mother, or even your stepmother? WL: Sure. I have inherited my father's analytical skills. WL: I probably don't have his business talent, you know, playing the

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WL: game. You know, networking with people sometimes have to be WL: aggressive and have a thick face. WL: Right? So, I actually don't have those aspects, but I do have his WL: analytical skills, so I'm very logical, very rational, sometimes

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WL: very nerdy. So, that is coming from my dad's side. WL: And from my mom's side, I would say my biological mother WL: is—even though I–I was not raised by her, I still inherit a lot of WL: things from her. Mainly is the understanding of the emptiness

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WL: of life. WL: So, some people are very down to Earth. WL: My dad is one of them. WL: And they get pleasure from everyday joy, such as good food, or

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WL: getting, you know, respect from people, or getting money, or, WL: you know, getting a good job. WL: All of those things make people like my dad happy, but then, to WL: me, just like my biological mother, those things are kind of empty to me.

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WL: I feel like, "Okay, what's the meaning of all of that? WL: Why are we doing all of this here? WL: Oh, okay. WL: This food is delicious.

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WL: What's the point?" So, I would think about the philosophical part of things WL: and the meaning of the universe, why we're here, the meaning of human race. WL: All of this big thinking, I think, came from my mom's genes, so to speak. WL: And then, my stepmother, she has

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WL: basically infused to me all of my routine, such as my WL: taste of food, taste of fashion, and just my everyday WL: routines preference. WL: Like, you know, my circadian cycle.

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WL: You know, how I prefer to–how I prefer my bedroom to look like, all of WL: those very little detail things in life, was, you know, inherited from WL: my stepmother because she basically, you know, demonstrated to me how to do them when WL: I was the age for me to learn those things.

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WL: So, yeah. Hope that answered your question. KL: Yeah. No, that was a very insightful answer. KL: I think it's super cool to kind of see every facet of your personality, how it's been KL: influenced by each of these parent figures.

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KL: I was also wondering, like, what were some of the values that your parents emphasized KL: during your upbringing? WL: Sure. I would go into two values that was emphasized to WL: me. One of them, I adopted, one of them, I chose not to.

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WL: So, the one I chose to live up to was the value of always being WL: humble and never feel that you're good enough. WL: So, that is—that could be a very Asian stereotype. WL: And that's something that my parents always taught me to live up to.

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WL: So, that starts with this educational fairy tale that a lot WL: of Chinese parents tell their kid, and my parents told me. So, the fairy tale goes like this. There's a rabbit and a turtle, and they're racing.

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They're, you know, having a race from point A to point B, and whoever gets to point B first wins. And then, obviously, the rabbit is a lot faster than the turtle. But then, at the end of the story, the turtle won the race.

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And the reason is that the rabbit feels so good about himself that he said, "Oh, come on, there is no way I can't beat this turtle." So, as he was racing, he was distracted a lot. He's like, "Oh, let me stop by here.

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Oh, let me go check out that. Let me take a nap." And the turtle, even though he knows he's slow, he just keeps crawling, crawling. He never stops, and he never gives up.

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So, surprisingly, because the rabbit spent too much time doing other things distracted, he ended up missing the destination and the turtle got it first. So the turtle won the race.

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So, the–the point of this educational fairy tale is to teach children to never be like the rabbit. You always want to, you know, even though you know you're good, like, you're rabbit, you know you run way faster than the turtle.

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You don't want to say, okay, I'm good, I feel good. And let me just relax and be distracted. And always feel like, okay, I'm pushing myself to do even better. I need to run even faster.

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I need to be more focused and determined. That is the value that I got from my parents. And, you know, looking back, to be honest, I think a lot of people will think I'm an overachiever.

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I always was the number one student in class in terms of grades, and I was the first to be accepted to Rice University from southwest China. And I was interviewed by some newspapers when I was accepted because that was news, but I never felt I was good enough because one of my classmates got into

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Harvard, so I [laughs] yup, I just feel like, "Oh, I'm not good enough. I didn't go to Harvard." Right? And then I always was good at music, but I obviously never thought I was good because I didn't go to music school.

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At Rice, I have taken every possible music course open to non-majors. You know, the Shepherd School of Music is freaking hard to get into, so I'm not even going to try. But, I took every class possible for non-majors, and then I paid $60 per hour to my classmates in music,

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you know, composition or piano majors to teach me, and that's my dedication. But still, I, like, right now I have a music video recently released and all that, and I still think, "Oh, no way, I'm not good enough." And in one sense, I feel like, you know.

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Honestly, I know that I'm making progress and I know that I'm already better than average musicians. However, I need to have this, you know, key value infused in me to say that I'm not good enough so I can keep getting better.

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So, that's a value that my parents got into me that I'm practicing. And another value I want to share that I did not adopt was–was how like my parents said, you have to live to the expectations of others.

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Let it be the society or family needs or parents. And I think a lot of my family members, the older ones, are like that. For example, my grandmother.

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She is very proud of herself because she believes she has fulfilled a responsibility of a wife and a mother, and she—like the most proud thing that she says is, you know, at her father's deathbed or something like that, he held her hand and

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said, "You're good. You brought honor to my family." And that is really—that means a lot to her. And this is great because she is really living to the expectations of her father and her husband and her children.

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And to me, I feel like everybody is kind of having to be responsible for themselves. So, instead of thinking, like, "Okay, I'm doing this to please my dad," like––like, how it's, like, so famous that a lot of Chinese parents are pressing their kid in

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their late 20s or early 30s to get married and have kids because they're so worried if you don't do it as a girl, then you're too old to get married. Nobody's going to be attracted to you. And then, when you're old, you don't have anybody take care of you.

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And I just don't care for that. I–I probably would not ever have kids, and I'd rather spend all of that time focused on my second career as a musician and now a film producer, because I think that's one way for me to express

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myself and to actually—to help me become a better person, to complete myself. It's more like a salvation what I'm doing. And I feel like, for a lot of people, they don't think about what is the true salvation

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for themselves. They just think, "Okay, this is what I'm supposed to do at this age because the society wants me to do that. The society gives me resources to do all of those things." But to me, I think, what is my

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salvation? What is the thing that will really cure me and help me find meaning? And as long as it's not hurting anybody else, as long as it's not in conflict of what my parents want out of me, what society want out of me, I would rather pursue that individual pursuit, so that's a value that I did not agree

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with. So, yeah. KL: I think that's really–that's really interesting. KL: I think—I don't know if you've ever read the novel The Fountainhead KL: by Ayn Rand, but it has a very similar

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KL: type of feel where she talks about how people often live secondhand KL: lives where they're so busy, like, living for, like, the opinions of other people, KL: they, like, lose themselves. So, I think like, it reminded me a lot of what you're KL: saying. And I think that's just very admirable too that you were able to kind of,

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KL: like, identify what was being told to you and then finding another KL: path as well. WL: Yeah. [KL: Yeah.] Actually, I would like to add, if this, you know, WL: whatever I want to pursue for my own salvation is going to be in conflict

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WL: with, like, my family needs and all that, then I will definitely think WL: twice, but I have the pleasure. WL: I'm very lucky that I don't have a lot of family responsibility like WL: people of my age typically have.

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WL: Because, number one, my dad, he has, you know, he has been financially WL: successful. Therefore, at least at this point, he doesn't need me WL: to, you know, support him. WL: Right? And he is probably going to be a long time before he needs me to support him,

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WL: both physically committing my time and financially committing my money. WL: So I get to, you know, do whatever I want. And also, my biological mother, after the divorce, we reconnected basically when I grow up.

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When I was 16, 18, we reconnected and it went out great. Now she's an awesome friend. She became a professor at Fudan University, and a decade later, she became a committed Buddhist.

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So, she has cut off her secular connections, and she now lives in a temple. So, obviously, she also will not expect my support. And actually, you're expected to cut your secular connections once you do that. So, I would say that, you know, I'm not proud of,

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like, "Oh, I'm just being selfish because I do what I want to do." I think my special family circumstances allows me to do that, and I think it's very lucky of me. KL: No, that definitely makes sense. KL: Kind of following off, so, you mentioned that your mom ended up becoming Buddhist.

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KL: Were you raised religious at all, or did your—does your father, or KL: stepmom practice a religion? WL: I don't believe so. WL: If they did, it's not given to me at all.

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KL: Gotchu. I kind of want to, then, go back to your KL: interest in music, as well as physics. KL: When did both of those interests first start for you? KL: I know you mentioned that you had always just loved playing the piano.

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KL: So, when did you start doing that? WL: Well, it was a typical Asian thing that people want their WL: kids to learn an instrument. WL: So, I was one of those kids.

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WL: But what's different about me is, I always try to WL: go out of the way, and do some chord progressions, and come, WL: you know, compose, improvise some melodies that is not taught by the teacher. WL: And at first, it was very discouraged.

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WL: Let it be the music teacher in school, or my, you know, WL: private music teacher, and my parents, and also my grandma. WL: My grandma was actually in a choir when she was young, so she's musical. But all of those people did not encourage that behavior.

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Instead they said, Wendy, be good. Just play whatever the teacher assigns you to play. Practice this piece note by note. Don't do this nonsense chord progression, or melody.

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This is, you know, disobedient. And, later, what I realized was that I have a talent of music composition, and I was not recognized by my teacher, my classmate, or my family. And once I realized that, which is probably my puberty, I almost gave up the

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piano practice. I'm not very good at it anyways, because my hand are small and also my muscles, ah. I just never built them very strong.

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So, my piano playing skills are totally mediocre. But I get to learn music theory, and I'm able to compose some really good music. So, yeah. KL: That's great. Were your parents supportive of, like, your musical interests growing up,

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KL: or were they more supportive of, like, STEM side of things? WL: I would say I never voiced my strong passion to music to my WL: parents, and I always knew that I was going to major in WL: physics, so I never thought about major in music, or give up my, you

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WL: know, coursework for music dedications. WL: Actually, I fell in love in math—with math at, you WL: know, third grade. WL: And I fell in love with physics in eighth grade, pretty much the first time I got to

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WL: learn physics. And at that moment, I knew I was going to be a physics major. WL: And back then I had this ambition. WL: Gosh, today it sounds so silly. WL: But back then, I had the ambition to be the next Madame Curie.

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WL: I was hoping to be a scientist and win Nobel Prize, and I WL: don't think it's happening, but it's just nice to think how like, I truly have a WL: passion in this field. WL: And I pursued this field.

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WL: So, majoring in physics at Rice was a no-brainer. WL: I definitely know I was going to do that. And it's only until the senior year I realized that I started getting B's in solid state physics.

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I got a B minus. And then I got, particle physics I also got a B. And then that's when I realized, okay, my intellectual level may not be as good as Einstein or, you know, Madame Curie [laughs].

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But yeah, I always love physics, and I still do. And I think there are two ways that people can connect to the universal truth and beauty, no matter what culture or race or gender or country you're from.

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That is through art and through science. So, which is why I kind of commit in both of these fields, I commit to science. And by majoring in physics, no matter whether you're from China or the US

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or, you know, Israel, or North Korea, you will always agree on Maxwell equations. And you can always derive E equals MC squared from Maxwell equations. It's universally true.

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And then, no matter where you're from, you will always understand beautiful music, beautiful movies, beautiful art. And so I always know that I want to pursue this because these things make me feel safe, because I know their universal truth and beauty.

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So, hope that answer your question. I was digressing a little bit. KL: No, that definitely answered the question. KL: I think that's really beautiful.

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KL: Kind of last question about just your pre-college experience, KL: how is your experience just being educated in China? KL: And I guess, how would you kind of compare it to educational experiences in America? WL: I actually was in a traditional Chinese education

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WL: system only up to 10th grade. WL: And then at 11th, 12th grade, I went to an IB school, International Baccalaureate. WL: So that's essentially Western system, but yeah, to answer that question, I would WL: say, I—gosh,

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WL: I think both systems really build students very well. WL: It teaches good virtues, it teaches good values, and it gives a student, the WL: students, strong foundation for academics. WL: The only thing that I think is different is China is

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WL: still transitioning from a very vast, rapid change WL: of, like, geopolitical landscape. WL: You know, just 60, 70 years ago, we have, you know, World WL: War and Civil War, and then we have the Cultural Revolution, and then we

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WL: have, you know, the reform, and the reform is still ongoing. WL: Then we enter WTO. And, with all of those changes, the message that we are getting growing up is changing with the landscape.

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That is, like you can see, like, a change in—you know, at the early 1990s, teachers will tell you this values, and then in late 1990s it's going to be different set, and then the 2000s is going to be another set. It's very interesting to see that.

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And I think, growing up in that rapidly changing time, you get to be more open minded and adapt to changes. The downside of that, obviously, is at the end of the day, no matter you're from the 1990s or 2000, what your key values are, you're still—you have

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more people than the jobs available. That's just too many people in China. So, there's always this very, very competitive examination to college, which I don't know how much you know about, but, like–––so you're

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basically working for 12 years of school for this one exam, and then you're solely judged by your score in that one exam, what kind of college and what major you can get into. And so I think, this is unfortunately a very narrow view of how

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good a person is, or how good of a fit it is to this college and major. So, that comes to like comparison to the US or the Western system is the Western system has been pretty stable. So, I feel like, you know, obviously if we compare ourselves to baby boomers, we

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have different sets of values, but if we go back to 20 or 30 years, the values, at least in the US, from what I know with my experience at Rice and onward, has been relatively stable. What is right, what is good, what is wrong?

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You know, what is acceptable or not has been pretty stable. So, I think growing up here, you are kind of accepting this relatively stable value without the luxury of experience, all of these changes and developing insights with those

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changes. However, the upside of that is, here, obviously, you have more job opportunities than China has with all of their huge population. So, the educational system here is not like this one

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dimensional, competitive, like, you know, you're not determined by one exam. So, kids here are encouraged to do good extracurricular activities, good sports, good leadership skills. And all of those are going to be considered along with grades when you apply to

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college, and I like that comprehensiveness, so that's–that's my kind of comparison of these two educational systems. KL: Thank you so much for explaining. KL: I think that was very helpful.

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KL: I did a little project for one of my classes that was kind of delving into the KL: Chinese examination, and I was just like, so shocked by how much pressure it would be KL: to have all—everything, just, like, pitted on that one exam. KL: So. [WL: Right.] Yeah.

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KL: Going on to, I guess, now coming to the US, what was it like for you coming to KL: Rice for the first time? KL: Like, did you experience any culture shock or discrimination being in Texas? KL: Was it what you expected?

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WL: No. I have the luxury to say that I, personally, WL: have been in the US since 2009. WL: I've never experienced discrimination because of my gender or race. WL: I've never felt that myself.

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WL: I've heard plenty of my friends experience that, but it never happened to me. WL: When I first came to Rice, you know, I was welcomed by O-week, by my O-week WL: advisors and Lovett College and also the physics major WL: community. It's all very diverse, so we have people of different

00:27:09.270 - 00:27:25.770

WL: races. And, yeah, I literally didn't feel any culture WL: shock. I did feel, though, it's a little bit challenging when WL: I first here—came here—because of the English, everybody was—like, WL: understanding class is no problem.

00:27:25.770 - 00:27:39.960

WL: I can understand what the professor said, but chatting with friends, then WL: you—you're kind of swamped in all of this American slang. WL: What is this? What is that? WL: So, that took me a good one or two years to ramp up, but I think now I'm

00:27:39.960 - 00:27:50.180

WL: pretty good, so. KL: You have any slang words you can remember off the top of your head that were baffling to KL: you? WL: Okay, this is being recorded, so I will stop here.

00:27:50.450 - 00:28:07.680

WL: But, remember that, you know, purity test that we did when we first WL: came here? Yeah, there are plenty of slangs in them and I'm not going to go into each of WL: them. [KL: laughs] And also the cheers and anti-cheers of each college. WL: Yeah, there is a clean version and there's a not-so-clean version, right.

00:28:07.830 - 00:28:24.360

WL: And I–I remember I got this WL: friend, he's–he's a, like, big white bald guy and WL: I–I basically just grab him and said explain all WL: of this cheer words to me.

00:28:24.360 - 00:28:42.090

WL: And it's, like, so many inappropriate words and so many slangs. WL: And so, he had to explain to this person who just came to the WL: US and doesn't even speak English fluently, all of those words. WL: And I can tell that he was so embarrassed and I just saw him, like, you know, three

00:28:42.090 - 00:28:54.790

WL: years ago at a reunion, and he still remembered that. WL: He said, Wendy you toasted me that day. KL: That's really funny [laughs]. KL: How big was the international student population, like, when you came into

00:28:54.790 - 00:29:03.640

KL: Rice? WL: I know there were 54 Chinese students that year. WL: [KL: Wow. WL: What—] Out of, like, 800 total.

00:29:03.670 - 00:29:21.960

KL: Got you. What do you think is something that people are most likely KL: to misunderstand or assume wrongly about Asian KL: immigrants or Chinese immigrants specifically? WL: Well, like, some people say that if you're an Asian at Rice, you're

00:29:21.960 - 00:29:37.860

WL: either a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, or a loser. WL: Right? And I am afraid I fall into the losers category, right. WL: So, this kind of stereotypes, I think, is a double-edged WL: sword. It has something bad, it has something good.

00:29:37.860 - 00:29:55.560

WL: So, the bad part, obviously, like, I don't like to be—I don't want to be WL: assumed that, okay, all Chinese folks coming to the US will speak with a WL: heavy accent, and all of them are going to be super good at math WL: and science, because that makes people who are really good like myself not so

00:29:55.560 - 00:30:08.730

WL: outstanding. Just kidding. WL: [laughs] And so I don't like to be kind of judged with, "Oh, you must be WL: good at this, you must be good at that," that kind of thing. WL: And, "Oh, then you probably don't know Super Bowl.

00:30:09.210 - 00:30:24.420

WL: You probably don't know Renaissance Festival. WL: You don't get those things." Oh we got them, come on, right. And, but the good part about this stereotype is that I think it's–it's assumed in the general US society that

00:30:24.420 - 00:30:43.350

Asians are very hardworking and they are very reliable and responsible. So, it was perceived, at least from what I see, I feel like Asians in the US are perceived as being very hardworking, which is why you can make it through eight years plus medical school and become a

00:30:43.350 - 00:30:58.770

doctor or, you know, even longer hours to be a lawyer or engineer. Right? And also, Asians are perceived to really be able to provide for their family, for their next generation and to serve

00:30:58.770 - 00:31:11.850

their community. It's this willingness to actually responsibly serve your family and community that I think is a good perception and a rather accurate perception of Asians in America in general.

00:31:11.850 - 00:31:22.530

And I–I–I kind of like that, and I feel like, you know, I–I also possess those qualities. So. KL: That's very interesting.

00:31:22.530 - 00:31:38.370

KL: I'm also wondering, were there any other people in your high school KL: class who applied to Rice, like was it common for people, or did you know anyone KL: else who would apply to Texas schools in general? WL: Oh, come on, Rice–Rice is–is–is top 20.

00:31:38.490 - 00:31:57.030

WL: And so, one thing I noticed for Chinese students WL: and parents, and it's still the case now, is they look at WL: rankings and they value rankings way more than anything else. WL: So, because Rice is top 20, I think everybody who get good

00:31:57.030 - 00:32:10.560

WL: grades is trying to apply to Rice. WL: For the US students, they may think more about the fit, the school WL: culture, the money, the tuition, and even whether it's the city or WL: suburban and all of that.

00:32:10.560 - 00:32:24.990

WL: But, I think people in China, because it's so far away and it's a totally WL: different world, totally different system from them, they don't get it. WL: What they get the most is ranking. WL: And getting a degree from a high-ranked school makes it much

00:32:24.990 - 00:32:36.720

WL: easier for you to get good career opportunities if you choose to come back to WL: China after you graduate, so. WL: So yeah, everybody applies to Rice. KL: That makes sense. So, then yeah, if they all, like, use rankings to choose where to go,

00:32:36.720 - 00:32:48.420

KL: then when you come back they all know, "Oh you're on the top ranking, so that makes KL: sense." WL: Yeah I'm curious, when–when you talk about Texas, are there some certain WL: implications you have with Texas?

00:32:48.420 - 00:33:05.940

KL: I mean I—so, I'm from Princeton, New Jersey, so, [WL: Uh huh.] East Coast, and a lot of KL: people were very—how do I describe? KL: Not horrified, but slightly, like, scared for me, I guess. KL: Like, I think they were like, "Oh, you're, like, going to be wearing, like, a cowboy hat

00:33:05.940 - 00:33:15.030

KL: and boots and, like, you're going to be carrying your guns." And they're like, "No KL: one's ever heard of Rice in the East Coast," which is just very interesting. KL: So. [WL: Oh really, come on! KL: [laughs]] I know, like literally.

00:33:15.030 - 00:33:23.190

KL: It's because I'm–I'm literally in Princeton. KL: So, I think everyone only knows a lot of, like, the Ivies. KL: [WL:Princeton.] Yeah, exactly. KL: [WL: Oh, come on, yeah.] Yeah.

00:33:23.190 - 00:33:41.370

KL: So there's not as much awareness of Rice [laughs]. KL: Yeah. Kind of going back to the fact that you've been involved KL: in music, you took all those music classes as well as obviously majoring in physics. KL: I know, my experience, I've float around the humanities a lot, but

00:33:41.370 - 00:33:58.020

KL: I–I–I know that there's a very heavy, like, STEM dominant—domination, KL: like, on Rice campus. KL: Did you, I guess, like, how did you decide to kind of split your KL: time between those two majors and, like, what benefits or advantages do you see

00:33:58.020 - 00:34:15.240

KL: to being immersed in both? WL: As I said, I chose to pursue these two fields early on WL: because I know those are the two ways to universal truth and beauty. WL: In terms of splitting my time, I actually definitely put physics as

00:34:15.240 - 00:34:32.160

WL: my focus when I was at Rice, and music is kind of, at that WL: time, just very secondary. WL: It was until I had more time after I started working, that WL: I put more time in music and actually got certificates and, you

00:34:32.160 - 00:34:45.460

WL: know, commit to all of those, you know, software and certifications WL: and courses and trainings. KL: Got you. WL: Actually, since you mentioned it, I do want to say that, in terms of

00:34:45.460 - 00:35:04.510

WL: how I spent my time at Rice, in retrospect, I would do a few things WL: differently. The first would be, I wish I have spent more WL: time connecting with new friends at Rice instead of sitting in a WL: library doing physics or practicing piano or whatever, and the

00:35:04.510 - 00:35:23.380

WL: reason being, after I graduated from Rice and entered the workforce, WL: entering the real world, so to speak, I realize that people in the real world WL: mostly care about very realistic, very practical things. WL: Your relationship with your neighbors and your coworkers and people you meet in the

00:35:23.380 - 00:35:39.730

WL: bars in a work life is going to be very different from your relationship WL: with Rice classmates. So, for example, I can just walk by Lovett Quad or the library and come across somebody and, with a little pickup line, we can have a, you know,

00:35:39.730 - 00:35:55.600

very sparkling conversation about what's the meaning of the universe and what is the biggest problem in the society today, and what are some possible solutions. And Rice students, usually, they're obviously very smart and they are very open-minded.

00:35:55.600 - 00:36:13.180

And, most importantly, you're in an environment that everybody trusts everybody else so that you're relaxed and can open up and you know that this other person can open up to you and all of those viewpoints. And then, everybody is honest and taking–taking what they say

00:36:13.180 - 00:36:28.870

seriously. That is an environment or culture that is very different from the rest of the world. Once you get out of the school, then people start talking about, at first, they're not going to talk about the meaning of life or the biggest society problem,

00:36:28.870 - 00:36:43.090

because, number one, there's no net trust. It's like, why–why am I going to share such intimate things with you? Right? And also, people will–will think about more immediate needs, such as, "Okay, when am I going to get my salary raise?

00:36:43.450 - 00:36:59.680

When is my next vacation? And do I go to Hawaii or Bahamas or Alaska ." Or, "I want to buy a house. Where do I buy a house so that, you know, I get the best deal and it will, you know, the price will go up in the next couple of decades, or how should I

00:36:59.680 - 00:37:17.830

invest my money to make the most out of it?" People are going to talk about this, and if you talk about the meaning of life with them, they–they most likely will just, you know, say some BS to you and end the conversation, right? So, I really wish that I cherished this environment, this, you

00:37:17.830 - 00:37:35.160

know, very sparkling culture at Rice, which I took for granted back then, and I only knew how valuable it was after losing, so. KL: I think that's very insightful. KL: And I think it's–it's so sad that like, as you go on with life, you would think that you

00:37:35.160 - 00:37:51.690

KL: go from this bubble of people asking such important questions and then you continue KL: that. But, to see that, like, it's like the everyday little cares then kind of muddle KL: any, I guess, time that you would have previously spent talking about KL: more important things sometimes.

00:37:51.690 - 00:38:04.620

WL: Yeah. So, please cherish that. WL: And, I still try to talk to my current fellow co-workers or WL: acquaintances or friends about those topics. WL: It's just that, sometimes they don't respond as well as my Rice folks would.

00:38:04.710 - 00:38:13.440

WL: So. KL: That's very interesting. KL: What would you say has been—or was the most challenging aspect of KL: college for you?

00:38:17.820 - 00:38:36.510

WL: I think my mind was too much over the cloud during WL: my college time, which is actually helpful to my artistic career WL: right now. You know, I was able to win all of this awards and stuff, but WL: back then, when everybody in college was talking

00:38:36.930 - 00:38:51.780

WL: about, you know, we have all those big conversations about the meaning of the WL: universe, but we also should have conversations about how to get into graduate WL: school. What is the most lucrative industry right now for us to get into and how WL: to get into it?

00:38:51.780 - 00:39:06.060

WL: And, you know, what is going to be the next hot industry in ten WL: years? You know–you know, in 2010 it was bioengineering, WL: but then in 2015 it's big data. WL: And now, who knows what it is.

00:39:06.060 - 00:39:19.320

WL: And so, it's like people are going to be really keeping up with it as a college WL: student, but my mind is over the cloud again. WL: I'm still thinking about music. WL: I'm thinking about universally truth, physics equations, and

00:39:19.320 - 00:39:34.960

WL: universally beautiful music pieces and art pieces. And so, I was–I was missing out on a lot of practical things that I really should have paid attention to. And as a result, I kind of transitioned to my first job very arbitrarily.

00:39:34.960 - 00:39:52.170

And now looking back, I'm like, gosh, I just–I just, you know, applied to jobs without–without really looking. And I got three offers and I just picked one and said, yeah, you know, every job is the same. You get a survivable amount of money and you spend a lot of time and you go to

00:39:52.170 - 00:40:08.610

work, you go home, you eat, you go to sleep. It's the same, and so I–I took this job, but looking back, I–I should say, wow, there are so many other industries that I should learn about before I commit to this one, and—but because my mind was

00:40:08.610 - 00:40:20.080

always very artistic and very idealistic, I kind of, you know, didn't get that part. And I will say that was a challenge for my college time. KL: That makes sense.

00:40:20.110 - 00:40:33.500

KL: So, what industry did you end up going into and what would you have gone into, in KL: hindsight now? WL: I don't have an answer of hindsight, but I went into WL: energy industry. I'm still in it.

00:40:33.500 - 00:40:52.600

WL: I took a little digression for two years by working for an EdTech startup, WL: but other than that, I have been in the energy—basically, WL: I process seismic signal so that WL: we can use sound signal to kind of project that to the

00:40:52.600 - 00:41:08.200

WL: underground, and then use the reflected sound waves to analyze WL: the underground structures and present those structures to WL: geologists. And then they can look at the structure and judge where we can WL: drill for oil and gas.

00:41:08.200 - 00:41:24.070

WL: So that's–that's the industry that I've been in, and after WL: ten years, I–I would say I'm established in this industry. WL: I have a name, not a big name, just a small name in certain WL: technical aspects.

00:41:24.070 - 00:41:40.720

WL: But in hindsight, I don't know, you know. WL: I could have gone–gone on to get a PhD and be a physics professor. WL: A lot of my classmates at Rice recently got faculty positions. WL: One of them is now professor at Yale, one is at the US Air

00:41:40.720 - 00:41:54.970

WL: Academy. So, I'm very happy for them. And, you know, I would—I definitely see myself doing those things as well. And some of them go to the so-called lucrative careers of, let it be investment banking, or consulting, or big tech.

00:41:55.660 - 00:42:11.830

And I also admire their lifestyle. They're great people. I see myself succeeding in those industries if I chose to. I wouldn't say, like, I really should have done this particular thing. No. But I just feel like, gosh, I kind of entered this industry very arbitrarily.

00:42:11.830 - 00:42:20.230

So. KL: No, that makes sense. There are so many possible paths, and then you just kind of are KL: like, oh, I ended up in this one. KL: [WL: Right.] Yeah.

00:42:20.230 - 00:42:34.600

KL: I am so interested in the film that you helped, like, produce and the score that you KL: made for it. Could you tell me more about just, first of all, how did you get involved KL: in that whole sector? KL: Because I know you—so you were—just said you were in the energy industry, so how did you

00:42:34.600 - 00:42:46.750

KL: get to the film, music part? WL: Yeah. It's thanks to my network. WL: So this film studio, LiangChen Film Studio, is run WL: by a filmmaker named Liang Chen.

00:42:46.750 - 00:43:03.670

WL: And he is a Chinese American in Houston. WL: And, so I basically get to know him because of my network. WL: I've always been active in the Houston Chinese community. WL: At first, because I was my brother's guardian, I learned a lot of college

00:43:03.670 - 00:43:19.630

WL: planning stuff, so I was doing free college counseling for a lot of other Chinese WL: folks in the neighborhood, and I got a reputation, and so that kind of helped me WL: expand my network. WL: I kind of, you know, a lot of people hear about me, and then because

00:43:19.630 - 00:43:36.400

WL: of that kind of, so-called followers, I was able to promote my WL: music in that little fan base. WL: And then that expanded, and that finally got into the ear of this director, and he WL: really liked it. He actually, look back, he told me my—the

00:43:36.400 - 00:43:53.110

WL: first piece that he heard of mine was garbage. WL: But then, he said, "Wait a minute, this person is just a physicist WL: and she is buried in the energy industry. WL: How come somebody like that will commit to produce a song like

00:43:53.110 - 00:44:06.030

WL: this?" So he's like, "Even though this is a piece of garbage, I will still want to know WL: her and see if she can produce anything that's not garbage," and I think I met his WL: expectations. So [laughs]. KL: That's really funny.

00:44:06.120 - 00:44:18.480

WL: It was several years ago and after that we had Stowaways, the movie. WL: And then we have COVID and we have a couple of other productions, WL: and we are preparing for the next one right now. WL: So.

00:44:18.750 - 00:44:38.590

KL: Wow. What was it like being on set? KL: [WL: Hm?] What was it like being on set for, like, the movie itself? WL: I–I feel like the–the biggest WL: challenge in here is you're working with a culture that's totally

00:44:38.590 - 00:44:54.130

WL: different from corporates. WL: So, it's also different from academia, and especially WL: this is true for when we produced Stowaways, because I don't know WL: how much you know about that movie, but it's actually the world's first

00:44:54.130 - 00:45:09.820

WL: movie that features undocumented citizens from China to the US, WL: which is why it has won so many awards, because it's such a interesting topic that WL: nobody has touched upon before. WL: And, to make it this authentic, a lot of our cast

00:45:10.270 - 00:45:25.090

WL: members were authentic immigrants, like, they are playing WL: themselves, and so working with these people, WL: you can–you can imagine even though we're, like, me and them, we're both WL: Chinese Americans.

00:45:25.090 - 00:45:42.790

We're all immigrants from China to the US, b ut it's so different. Like, some of them may have crossed the border 20 years ago, and has been, you know, working in underground restaurant kitchens as a cook for 16 hours a day for, you know, ten years without celebrating for

00:45:42.790 - 00:45:59.260

Christmas or never see the sun. Some of them may have, you know, brought here some money, and then just go to casinos, and just, you know, lose all of their money and have a heavy debt. Some of them may work in a kind

00:45:59.560 - 00:46:15.040

of a massage place and then marry one of the clients and all of those way-out-of-my-head stories. And so at first, working with those people was a challenge for me. However, I was able to turn that into an advantage

00:46:15.880 - 00:46:29.020

because after working with those people for a couple of months, I realized we're more similar than different. This is not cliche. But I realized that, hey, this is somebody who has the same blood

00:46:29.020 - 00:46:45.580

as me, but they have very different experience. And, but if you go into them, you realize that essentially you're going through the same thing, the same, you know, feeling of pain, the same love, same hate and the

00:46:45.580 - 00:46:59.530

same fear of things that could happen just like they are fearful of being caught. That okay, you know, you don't have an ID or whatever. It's the same thing as when we are fearful of, for example, being

00:46:59.530 - 00:47:18.490

fired from our job the next day and have to leave the country. And, you know, when we fall in love with our partner or boyfriend or whatever, it's the same kind of love that they fall into, so I realized that there are actually more similarity than difference between

00:47:18.490 - 00:47:37.240

our crowd and their crowd, because we all share this root of the Chinese culture. And the beautiful, beautiful thing about me being in the team is I can translate because I have the pleasure of being at a very diverse, cultural—culturally diverse place at, like,

00:47:37.240 - 00:47:50.980

Rice University, and also at Schlumberger, which is, you know, very diverse, very international. There are, like, 20 countries of people in my office, and only one-third of them speak English as a first language.

00:47:51.760 - 00:48:10.870

And so, in my late teens, early 20s, I've been exposed to all of this very, you know, cultural diversity, and I learned how to, like, what different cultures have in common and what they have different, and what is going to be effective way to communicate to each and every culture and

00:48:10.870 - 00:48:26.830

what is specific to one culture. And so I was able to translate in the filming of Stowaways, all of the languages, expressions, art forms that may only make sense to the Chinese culture, to something

00:48:26.830 - 00:48:45.970

universal, to something that I feel like different cultures would understand. And I was able to play that part in the production process, and that was so much fun. It makes me a more open-minded person, and I had just grown so much seeing different life forms and, you know, kind of live life that is way out of my

00:48:45.970 - 00:48:57.730

own life. So. KL: That's super cool. KL: And I love how, like, the experiences beforehand that you wouldn't even have KL: thought would, like, help shape, like, your experience now have like, played a role in

00:48:57.730 - 00:49:10.150

KL: being able to translate. KL: I was also wondering, is there, like, a certain character of the movie that you KL: feel like you resonate with some aspect of them or, like, their experience more KL: than others?

00:49:11.940 - 00:49:29.790

WL: I do feel resonant with one of the main characters, WL: so, this–this guy is nowhere similar to my experience, WL: but I really like the naiveness and pureness that he had. WL: So, the story goes like this.

00:49:29.790 - 00:49:45.860

WL: This guy illegally crossed the Mexican border to come to the US at the age of WL: 18, and, at the—during WL: the crossing, there was another family that cross with him, also from WL: China, and they didn't meet before.

00:49:45.860 - 00:50:05.360

WL: And that family, the husband and the little daughter both died WL: during the crossing because of the river, but the pregnant wife survived. WL: And so, this 18-year-old kind of took care WL: of this pregnant wife and took care of her after childbirth and

00:50:05.360 - 00:50:21.980

WL: all the way until, like, 20 or 30 years later, and during this whole WL: time, he has been a cook in a Chinese restaurant WL: in Chinatown of New York. WL: Like, those underground kitchens, no life, a nd he use his

00:50:21.980 - 00:50:38.690

WL: leisure time to go to casinos, so he was never able to go to school, WL: never able to save up any money, never able to get married. But, at the end of the day, he—so, I forgot to mention, this heavily pregnant woman,

00:50:38.690 - 00:50:56.180

because she lost her husband, she couldn't afford raising this child herself, and she knew this child is not going to get a good education. So because of that, she actually put this child for adoption, and the child was adopted by a white family, and

00:50:56.180 - 00:51:11.120

so, this–this lady lost the child essentially because it's not her girl anymore. It's, you know, now has a adoption parents. And then after so many years, it was this main character, this

00:51:11.120 - 00:51:24.710

guy that reconnected this daughter, now in her 20s and now graduating from Harvard Medical School. That's a–that's a stereotype, right? But connected her with her mother.

00:51:24.890 - 00:51:36.440

And so, what we can see from this guy is that he has nothing to be proud of. He illegally crossed the border and he always been a cook, and he didn't have education, he didn't have any accomplishments.

00:51:38.330 - 00:51:53.960

He even have all of those, you know, undesirable qualities such as going to casinos and losing all the money. However, there's that kindness and naiveness, like, he always took care of this lady who he just met during the crossing because

00:51:53.960 - 00:52:12.410

she lost her husband. It's that simple kindness, and it was–it was that kindness that drove him to also find this daughter after 20 years, so that she could reunion with her mother. And all of that, she—he kind of volunteered to do, and he didn't have to do

00:52:12.410 - 00:52:28.250

at all. But he wants to do it because this is trying to serve others, serve the community. And also, like, kind of triggers a kind of instinctive beauty. Like when you see, you know, somebody reunion with their daughter, there's always

00:52:28.250 - 00:52:47.120

that beauty. And so, to me, I feel like I sometimes do silly things like that, things that have no immediate benefit to me, but would really, you know, give me joy to help others and just because I love to see something beautiful happen because of me, such

00:52:47.120 - 00:53:04.010

as a reunion of a mother and daughter. And so, I feel like, also a lot of times I can do bad things or selfish things, just like this guy will go to casinos and lose all of his money, and that's not desirable, but, at the same time, I will always want to help

00:53:04.010 - 00:53:20.780

others, especially those who are related to me in terms of, you know, cultural roots or just—like, for example, Rice is a family, and now I view my company as a family. All of those people who are somehow related to you, you always want to help them in

00:53:20.780 - 00:53:31.400

creating some kind of universal beauty. And that itself is satisfying to me. So that's what I see as I–I feel related to one of the characters.

00:53:32.300 - 00:53:46.820

KL: Thank you so much for sharing. KL: I feel like that's such a powerful story and I love how you connected it to yourself as KL: well. Kind of shifting gears a little bit, going to KL: more identity and how you identify yourself, like, how would you identify

00:53:46.820 - 00:53:59.920

KL: yourself ethnically? WL: Oh, definitely, I'm Chinese. KL: And what do you feel most proud of? WL: In terms of my identification of being Chinese?

00:54:00.820 - 00:54:16.470

KL: Either that, or anything that you've accomplished, or just anything, looking back. WL: Okay. I feel like I identify WL: myself as a—both scientific and artistic, and that's something WL: I'm proud of.

00:54:18.210 - 00:54:34.260

KL: I'm wondering too, just jumping back to family and how you KL: said you love to help anyone who's, like, related to you or in a similar position. KL: You said your immediate family is now living all KL: in the US, correct?

00:54:34.260 - 00:54:50.970

KL: Or your biological mom is still in China at a temple? WL: Well, actually, my dad is in Irvine. WL: My stepmom is in Chengdu, and my WL: biological mother is in a temple in Japan.

00:54:52.180 - 00:55:02.440

KL: Gotcha. Sounds good. KL: Do you think that you would, like, stay in Houston, like, for the rest of your life, if KL: you could? Or is there a place? WL: Ah, no. I've been in Houston long enough.

00:55:02.440 - 00:55:19.420

WL: And I think, at this–at this time where everything is WL: remote, it really doesn't matter where I stay. WL: I do like the US because I feel here there is no WL: such thing as mainstream culture so that there is no clear social

00:55:19.420 - 00:55:34.270

WL: norm. Unlike in many other cultures, China included, I think WL: there is a mainstream. WL: And if you deviate from the mainstream, then you will face some pressure. WL: Like, okay, I'm 32, I'm still not married, I still have no kids.

00:55:34.270 - 00:55:49.270

WL: What's wrong with me? Right. WL: And in the US, people are not going to ask, because US is like a WL: hodgepodge of all of the different cultures, and each of them live in their own ways, and WL: then you mingle and you have, like, all of this mixed values, so people are not

00:55:49.270 - 00:56:04.860

WL: like—if you–if in the US, if people WL: realize that you're different from them, they're going to say, oh, this person is WL: probably from—coming from a different culture. WL: Guess what? It's an immigration country, so I would just respect them.

00:56:04.860 - 00:56:22.680

Instead of, in other cultures where there is a mainstream, then people think, oh, this person's different from me, is it something wrong with her or something wrong with me? Right. So, in the US, people are not going to think like that, so I think because of this, I will probably stay in the US, so I have less pressure of

00:56:22.680 - 00:56:37.980

being weird because I'm both a nerd and a crazy artist. Right? In terms of cultural identification, I'm definitely Chinese, like I–I will always—like Chinese is my first language. I wrote a book in Chinese.

00:56:37.980 - 00:56:50.130

I probably will write more. Most of my songs' lyrics are in Chinese, and also I-I'm naturally just attracted to Chinese food. My stomach love them, I like Chinese fashion and all of that.

00:56:50.130 - 00:56:59.310

So, yeah. KL: At your heart and––and soul, you are Chinese? KL: [laughs] WL: Of course. I leave the country when I was 18, so all of the key values were set

00:56:59.310 - 00:57:10.470

WL: back then. KL: I—okay, so you did mention your novel, and I wanted to hear a little bit more KL: about the first novel that you authored and what inspired you to write it, and how was KL: that process like?

00:57:11.990 - 00:57:30.500

WL: So, it actually was the same reason WL: I joined LiangChen Film Studio and started making music, and start, you know, WL: being part of storytelling, like the movie Stowaways. WL: So it's–it's a way to kind of express

00:57:30.500 - 00:57:43.010

WL: myself in a artistic way that's universally understandable to the WL: rest of the world. WL: So, I first chose to express my WL: emotions using words.

00:57:43.010 - 00:57:59.210

WL: And so, I wrote this 200,000 word WL: novel. It's actually a semi-autobiography of my life at Rice. WL: I even kind of named five different colleges corresponding WL: to the 13 colleges at Rice.

00:57:59.210 - 00:58:11.660

WL: I give them fake names. WL: And then I wrote about my close friends, a couple of them. WL: I changed their names. WL: You know, I also make a very tall guy, very short, and a very, you know, skinny girl,

00:58:11.660 - 00:58:31.160

WL: very fat, but other than that, it was my true stories, WL: and I was using this as an opportunity for me to express WL: the things that I cannot express because, you know, you can't just WL: go to your friend and say, "Hey," you know, "I really enjoyed those

00:58:31.160 - 00:58:44.840

WL: conversations with you. WL: I feel like I've been a better person because of you." And, and you can't go to another person and say, "Hey, I," you know, "I fell in love with you, but you don't respond.

00:58:44.840 - 00:58:57.140

I feel so hurtful. I don't know what to do because, you know, I still am attracted to you." Those things, if you just say it openly to the person, it–it probably will reduce the power a lot.

00:58:57.140 - 00:59:13.370

But if you put this into an art form, like a novel, it's going to be much more touching, and it's going to be universally understood by a lot of other people. And that's my first attempt. And then, after doing that, I realized, okay, nowadays people don't sit down

00:59:13.370 - 00:59:30.200

there and spend ten hours reading a big book anymore. They listen to music, they watch videos, and they do selfies, and they do TikTok, and so I realized that maybe if I want to really kind of express my pursuit of truth and beauty,

00:59:30.200 - 00:59:41.590

I should use this kind of more popular art forms like music and images and moving images. Right? So, that's how I ended up here. KL: That makes a lot of sense.

00:59:41.650 - 00:59:56.740

KL: I think that's so beautiful that you're able to capture it in words and put it out in that KL: way. On a practical level, how do you manage your time to do so KL: many different projects and work a full time job while also doing all these different KL: artistic things?

00:59:57.700 - 01:00:16.450

WL: Yeah, so I don't have much of a leisure life anymore. WL: [laughs] But I–I think a lot of times changing gear is taking a WL: break. So, I will just do a lot of geophysics, thinking about WL: waves, thinking about frequency spectrum, velocity model,

01:00:16.450 - 01:00:34.690

WL: and how we try to improve the seismic imaging quality, and a WL: lot of equations, a lot of solving the matrix, solving differential equations, and WL: then, boom, all of a sudden, next hour, I'm writing some PR to invite WL: the New York mayor, for example, to our next screening of Stowaways in New

01:00:34.690 - 01:00:44.740

WL: York. By the way, I'm going to be in New York in two weeks for the screening. It's going to be in the Flushing Public Library, and we have invited a lot of big people to join us.

01:00:44.740 - 01:01:03.010

And I handle all of those PR, so, it's like that, changing gear, for me is taking a break. And then after doing that, after two hours of using ChatGPT to write the invitations and try to proofread it and change the

01:01:03.010 - 01:01:13.960

words here and there and like, "Okay, I'm getting tired. Okay, back to seismic. More physics." Right? And so, that's that's how I feel like I can change gear without really feeling

01:01:13.960 - 01:01:32.350

burnt out. And then, I always playing the piano and composing, improvising some beautiful tunes is the cure for everything. And if that's not enough, I have the best cat in the world, and so just petting the cat is, you know, that solves all the problems.

01:01:32.920 - 01:01:46.990

KL: [laughs] That makes sense, I guess because it is such different parts of your brain, it KL: makes sense that you could be able to switch, like, back and forth. KL: [WL: Right.] Yeah. KL: I was also wondering, like, if, say, you reached a point in one of these facets of

01:01:46.990 - 01:02:06.160

KL: your career where you could only pick one, what do you think you would go for? WL: I definitely will not be able to give one up for the other. WL: So—because I need this scientific career to make WL: money to survive, but I do need the artistic aspect of me

01:02:06.160 - 01:02:21.160

WL: to keep me, you know, questing constantly in quest of the WL: truth and beauty of life. WL: So, it's like, one is bread and butter, the other WL: is dessert, and, you know, delicious food, so to speak.

01:02:21.760 - 01:02:36.570

KL: Yeah, you need both to have your balanced meal. KL: [WL: Right.] [laughs] Kind of switching gears a little bit, KL: where and when do you feel most at home? WL: Mm. Can you elaborate on what you mean by at home?

01:02:37.860 - 01:02:52.240

KL: I guess, like, it's kind of just however you interpret home, or like, how would you KL: define home? WL: Yeah. So, sadly, you've got a sore spot of mine and I don't WL: have an answer to this question anymore.

01:02:52.240 - 01:03:10.680

WL: If you ask me when I was in my puberty, where I went to WL: residential school, because I was in residential school ever since seventh WL: grade, then feeling home is actually going home for the WL: weekend. Because then, I'm in my own bedroom.

01:03:11.430 - 01:03:22.530

WL: I'm not with three other roommates. WL: I don't have to watch my actions all the time. WL: I'm not afraid of being judged. WL: I'm in my own space with my doors closed to my own bedroom.

01:03:22.530 - 01:03:37.350

WL: So, that is when I feel home the most. WL: And then, after I went to Rice, I feel like when WL: I feel home is when I went back to China. WL: When I can sleep in my own bed, and eat the authentic food

01:03:37.500 - 01:03:53.370

WL: of, you know, the delicious hotpot and other food that you can never get, WL: authentically in Houston. WL: Right? So that is when I feel the most home. However, after all this years, a lot of people who are important to me, such as my

01:03:53.370 - 01:04:11.070

brother, my dad, and kind of my stepmother as well, has moved out of that house in that city or even that country. And so, going back—and also some of my close friends, my best buddies from middle school and high school, they're all gone now.

01:04:11.070 - 01:04:22.890

To different places to pursue their career and lives. And, so now, I haven't gone back to Chengdu for six years. Part of that is COVID. Part of that is, there's really no point to go back anymore.

01:04:22.890 - 01:04:37.740

So, that is a very sad realization in your 30s that, well, if you go back, you have no place to go. The house is not your house anymore and all of the people in that house, some of them passed away. Some of them have moved on.

01:04:37.740 - 01:04:49.650

Some of them remarried. Some of them, you know, just go to a different chapter of their lives. So. I don't know. Right now, I feel the most home when I'm in my actual

01:04:49.650 - 01:05:07.380

house in Houston, and I just see that as my own home. That is where–where I have my beloved cat, I have a partner who I love, and I do music there. A lot of, like, I recently released a music video and it took me one

01:05:07.380 - 01:05:22.710

year to–to compose that music, the lyrics and the melody, as well as the chord progressions before I sent it to a music producer to actually produce it. And then this director, Liang Chen, was able to make an MV out of

01:05:22.710 - 01:05:37.920

it. What I want to say is it took one year, and a lot of the inspirations during those one year that moved my, you know, music writing forward for this project was, when I wake up in my

01:05:37.920 - 01:05:52.290

bed in the morning in this Houston house, I wake up, maybe I was dreaming about my older days and then I wake up. I'm still kind of halfway in my older days. Good memories. Halfway into the reality.

01:05:52.290 - 01:06:08.220

Gosh, I have to go to work in ten minutes or whatever, and during that transition time is when the inspiration boom, and then all of a sudden I have a really good line of melody, a really good line of lyrics. And it's—I wrote it down and that's–that's how the song got produced.

01:06:08.220 - 01:06:27.870

So, in this sense, my Houston house is the home of my inspirations and creations, and I will view it as a home now in, you know, this would replace what I used to have in my childhood house in Chengdu as things have changed and important people have, you know, gone apart.

01:06:27.870 - 01:06:37.170

So, hope that answer your question. KL: No, definitely. KL: That's really beautiful. KL: I think to see, like I guess, how the concept of home has like, stayed with you in

01:06:37.170 - 01:06:55.390

KL: some aspects, the fact that you still find inspiration by like combining the two KL: now, your new home, old home, and what it means now. WL: So, by the way, this question of when you feel home, how you feel at WL: home makes me think of this music video because I titled

01:06:55.390 - 01:07:09.340

WL: it Long Way to Yesterday. WL: It is a song about my own memory and my own—how to say?—my own WL: healing from the past. WL: Because there are just—I have a lot of–a lot of regret in my

01:07:09.340 - 01:07:27.500

WL: mind. Not to say I did something wrong, but to say I didn't WL: realize how valuable things were before I lost WL: them. For example, I already touched on one example of how, like, talking WL: to people at Rice, to have sparkling ideas and

01:07:28.610 - 01:07:42.110

WL: inspiring conversations is something I took for granted, and I WL: didn't spend enough time doing that. WL: Instead, I spent too much time doing homework, trying to get A's in physics, and WL: still get B's at the end of my senior year, right?

01:07:43.010 - 01:07:59.630

And there are a lot of things like that. For example, when I was in elementary school, I take buses every day to school and come back and looking back, those public bus rides are so much fun, and every day you see something interesting in the bus.

01:07:59.630 - 01:08:13.520

Oh, this woman's fashion. Oh, some very interesting conversation between this old lady and her husband. Like, you see the society in this little bus. And, also there are things like big trees.

01:08:13.520 - 01:08:29.420

There was a big—I think there still is—a big ginkgo tree in front of my elementary school that's at least a hundred years old. It's huge and we love to play around it. Like, you know, the six of us would just hold hand in hand to go around the tree.

01:08:29.420 - 01:08:46.910

All of those memories, at that time, I didn't know how meaningful it was, how good it was until I lost them permanently. And–and so, I use this song as an opportunity for me to talk to my past and say, "Hey, it's

01:08:46.910 - 01:09:02.630

okay. Now I realize how valuable you are and I will always cherish you in my heart. I'm so sorry that back then I didn't cherish you enough and now I understand." And so—which is why I made my song Long Way to Yesterday instead of

01:09:02.630 - 01:09:15.890

Long Way to Tomorrow, because it's about memory and healing, and I think that I just want to share that as part of answering the question of when I feel home most. KL: I think that's so beautiful.

01:09:16.190 - 01:09:33.020

KL: My last question for you is what would you say is your life KL: philosophy, or something that you like to hold on to to guide you throughout life? WL: Life philosophy of like what? KL: Of, like, what you use to kind of guide you throughout your life.

01:09:39.510 - 01:09:55.830

WL: I-I'm trying to avoid cliche. WL: I would say a lot of my life philosophy come from WL: reading and watching movies WL: and listening to songs and reading religious teachings.

01:09:56.760 - 01:10:14.450

WL: And so, now, it's kind of a mixture of all of them. WL: I take philosophy from the Bible, such as always be WL: kind and always love your neighbors like God loves you. WL: And, I take teachings from Buddhism, such as whenever

01:10:15.620 - 01:10:32.570

WL: things go wrong, try to take it easy. WL: Don't try to really, you know, take it seriously and understand it and want to WL: revenge and all of that because at the end of the day, everything is empty. WL: I take teachings from movies like Forrest Gump,

01:10:33.860 - 01:10:50.900

WL: or like, realizing that how a person's personal WL: effort is nothing compared to the actual tide WL: of the whole era. WL: And, you know, a lot of times who you are and what

01:10:50.900 - 01:11:03.560

WL: you can achieve is a matter of where you—is about, you know, being the right place at WL: the right time and meeting the right people. WL: And, I also learned from different songs, different WL: books.

01:11:03.560 - 01:11:19.220

There is a book, gosh, I–I can't remember the name of that book in English because I read in Chinese, Siddhartha? Anyway, it's about a person–––It's–it's by Hermann Hesse, the Nobel Prize winner of literature. And, this book is about the main character

01:11:20.090 - 01:11:36.230

who was a Buddhist and was going to be a committed Buddhist in a temple. But he chose to go out and experience the real world for a couple of decades first. So, with, you know, the quest of the meaning of life in his

01:11:36.230 - 01:11:54.860

mind, he went out to the bigger world, and he got married and enjoyed things like good food, wine, and sex. And he also experienced all the hardship like betrayal, cheating, and losing all of his money, and he became very rich and very poor.

01:11:54.860 - 01:12:05.330

He was very much in love. And then he lost his loved one. And after all of that, before he died, he realized, "Hey, now I know the meaning of life."

01:12:05.330 - 01:12:24.020

And so I read this very young, and I always read it every ten years. And those are the things, like–like the Bible, and the Buddhism teachings and this favorite—my favorite movies and books like this I always go back to, to find peace in mind and remind me that what I live for is

01:12:24.020 - 01:12:36.320

just to find a universal way to express truth and beauty, and share that with as many people as I can, and let it be science or art, so that's–that's what I live for. Yeah.

01:12:36.320 - 01:12:48.890

KL: No, that's really, really cool. KL: I love how you took a similar thread through, like, just a ton of different texts KL: that you found and—or, different art forms. KL: I guess lastly, is there anything that you would like to add that we've not covered yet?

01:12:51.590 - 01:13:07.940

WL: I guess that's pretty much it. WL: I just want to say thank you to the Chao Center. WL: And as a Rice alum, I-I always keep close connection WL: with the Department of Literature, Asian Studies, and I was a close

01:13:07.940 - 01:13:19.640

WL: friend of Dr. WL: Qian. Until her last year, she was an awesome mentor for me, and, WL: so, I really thank you for this opportunity and I hope we WL: keep in touch.