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Today is May 14th, 2024. My name is Cecilia Nguyen, and I'm here today with Vivienne Kwon on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice University. Could you please state your full name and where and when you were born?

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Sure. My name is Vivienne Kwon, and I was born in Seoul, Korea. South Korea. And also when you were born? Oh, in 1970. March of 1970.

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Yeah. Just for, so, for my first question, I wanted to get to understanding your early life. So, how would you describe the household that you grew up in? Did you celebrate any Korean holidays and traditions?

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Any cultural practices? And just in general, describing the setting in which you grew up? So in Korea, yes, I was there until I was seven years old. So as of that time, Korea-South Korea was considered more of a third

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world. So it's still considered, you know, very traditional setting. And so my family were pretty tight in that, you know, my sisters, we all lived in one household. Let's see, it was a small town, slightly outside of

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Seoul. So traditionally, yes, we practice the traditional methods. I went to a Catholic private school for my preschool, but I went to the first and second grade elementary school there.

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And, you know, we can talk a little bit more deeply about what schools were like at the time. Very rudimentary. You know, we didn't have, like, modern toiletry or bathrooms, as you know, we would have here in the US.

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If you speak to anyone from Asia, you can talk about what that was like in-in, you know, South Korea. We walked to school. There were no buses, as an example. We didn't have cars. We went to the local markets to get the groceries.

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We can get more specific about that. But yes, we are a pretty general, traditional family. Yeah. So I wanted to ask a little bit more about your early schooling experience. What do you recall from your first classroom in terms of the space,

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duration of classes, teaching materials, children's attitudes, anything that you recall? Oh, yeah. It was—How do we say it? You know, tiger moms at school, right?

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If we can describe it in a nutshell. So we went to school Monday through Saturdays-Monday through Saturday, and we were there all day. We walked to school and every day we learned our lessons.

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And this is pretty unique in South Korea in that after school, we would have to all contribute to clean our classrooms. So here in the US or in more of a westernized communities, you have janitorial services and so forth.

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Back-but back in my day, you know, we were the janitors as well, right? And then we had to pay for our own school supplies. So those families who couldn't afford school supplies couldn't go to school. They were, they had to learn at home.

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So from papers to pencils to erasers, everything we had to-had to be supplied from, you know, from home. And we learned our traditional Korean characters, languages and also math—mathematics.

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Now in math is, they say Asians are strong in math. Well, yeah, because they would beat you to know your math from your pluses to your multiplications. In fact, if you didn't know it on time, they would punish you physically.

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And you know, this can go into more of a controversial-controversial conversation, but. You know, they didn't believe in positive reinforcement. They believed in, you know, negative reinforcement. So if you didn't follow the instructor's, you know,

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commands or instructions, then you were punished either with like a ruler or a stick. You would have to stick your hand out like this, and they would just hit your hand multiple times. Or I've seen where you had to like even bump or,

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you know, throw your head down on your desk. And these are kids. These are elementary kids. You were punished physically to learn-to learn the language and the lessons. And if you didn't do your homework, you were physically punished.

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You know, here in the US, you know, maybe the worst case scenario is for kids to stand in the corner. Oh no, this is a physical punishment in Korea. Now, on the upside, you know, the upside was we

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learned. And we were taught the importance of academia. Right? So that can be an upside. Now, also in Korea, you know, community is important.

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So in schools, we went to picnics, you know, we had parents there going to picnics with the children. We all held hands. That's something that's no longer visible here in current culture or in the westernized communities where all the girls or even the

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boys, we would walk hands. I mean, we would walk together, holding hands together, right? We would, like, hold hands and walk down the street together. Even junior high and high school kids would do that.

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So it was taught as far as like sense of community, that was pretty strong. Even though our homework was difficult, our sense of community and being friends—there's a term in Korean called ujeong,

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which is friendship. That was considered to be very important amongst one another. And we would pretty much babysit each other. We didn't have something called babysitting. We would be each o—we would be there for each other.

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Every day after school, we would play or we would even eat together with our friends. So the community was pretty tight. Probably because, you know, the scenario at the time, it wasn't as easy. It was somewhat harsh.

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So we relied on the community and our neighbors to really, you know, move forward. Yeah, kind of in the same vein as you talking about community and like, that other side of the schooling.

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What are some values that your own parents emphasized in your upbringing? Education was important. You know, and I think it stems across all Asian communities, if that's fair enough to say.

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You know, in order to get above—get–get through society, get through the harshness of society, of living, you know, we were taught that education was the way to,

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you know, to a better life, right? And everything was about how can you—how can the next generation achieve the better life? Because in South Korea, we were just recovering from the Korean War. So, the whole community at—in the 70s was about just recovering

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from the Korean War. So with that said, a lot of the, you know, the older generation didn't even get the education. They didn't even have schools. One, there were—there was no schools with the-the community—the country had to

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reorganize. So with that said, you know, with the young children, being born and being raised, they were pushed to the belief that it was important to get educated and to, you know, focus on rebuilding the country.

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And as you can see today, South Korea is, you know, pretty aggressive and ambitious, right? That's a good word. But it really stems from just coming out and surviving the South Korean War.

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And how did growing up in that time, feeling the after effects of the Korean War, impact your own upbringing and your identity as a Korean woman? Sure. So this is pretty interesting because my mom,

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you know. She would hoard food. You know, and I didn't understand. I thought that was just the way it was, being young at the time. But she would hoard food, you know, when you—when typically you could buy just one bag of rice,

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she would buy a minimum of ten. And I found out that was because-because of the Korean War at the time, people went hungry or died just out of sheer hunger. And they were begging for a bowl of rice, you know,

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after the war. So with that, in the 70s, it was about if you had food, even eating meat was considered high luxury, right? It was for the wealthy. And so—or it was for special occasions.

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Now you could see people eating meat, you know, multiple times a day, you know, talking about protein and so forth. But-but back in the 70s, no, meat was considered a luxury. It was considered—it was just very expensive.

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So culturally, you know, I saw my mom and my dad just kind of hoarding food all the time, right? And that kind of stemmed into even my own life. But later on, I was able to relax and realize,

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you know, the-the sense of abundance here in the US. But in Korea, everybody, you know, even though they were hoarding food, we might like to remind that it was because of the sense of community and everybody knowing where they came from, were knowing what it was like just a few

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decades before. They shared a lot. You know, we would go over to each other's homes, always with food, right? Nowadays, people may go with different types of gifts,

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but at that time we went to each other's homes with homemade foods. We would share, you know, our dishes and things of that nature. Yeah, thank you for sharing. I think you mentioned your parents really emphasizing

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education as well as, kind of, the strictness of Korean schooling when you attended. What was your first memory of getting interested in design and creative work and the work that you do now, and were your parents supportive of your interest?

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Let me answer that quickly. Were my parents supportive of my artistic—my desire and art? Absolutely not. [laughs] Absolutely not. They thought, you know, I was—that was just going to be something I

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will grow out of, for my love of art. And they, you know, always reminded me that I needed to be either one of three things. Be a doctor, be an optometrist, or be a dentist.

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Those were the three things. I think a lot of Asians hear that. Doctor, optometry, and then be a dentist. Because why? You make a lot of money, you know.

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That was preached to me ever since, you know, I remember. And s—however, as far as my love of art, it stems from back in Asia. You know, right now, anime is all of the craze.

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But back then, that's what we had. That's what Asians had, anime. And again, that comes from the Korean War, you know, with the Japanese colonization of South Korea.

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They brought anime to Korea as well. And so with that, that's what we had for, the kids had, for entertainment, anime cartoons. And then eventually Koreans adopted their own styles and

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illustrations. Anyway, so growing up, you know, watching animes, you know, I wanted to draw those characters. And, you know, kids, they draw anything, right? Pretty much, you know, we're—that's—you grab your pencils,

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big pencils and papers and you start drawing. Anyway, anime inspired me a lot. And I thought, well, wow, I'm pretty good at it. And it's fun, of course.

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And then that stayed with me. However, going to school here in the US, I was selected to go into special art programs—nominated to go to these programs—which then just fueled my curiosity and desire in

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artistry, you know, trying different methods or different mediums and so forth. So then I actually, inherently, I'm an artist. However, because my family never supported my art and they would scare me all the time saying I was going to be a broke

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artist, I never—I couldn't move forward with, you know, truly trying to even be a full-time artist, if that makes sense. I remember even in high school, I was requested to get a, you know, try out

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for—apply for a scho— sponsorships, but I was too scared. Because I was afraid to say that, you know, anything like that at home. I needed to say, I'm going to be either a doctor or a dentist or an optometrist. That's what I was going to study.

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So anyway, I didn't even, you know, I didn't even apply for the scholarships and so forth. But thank goodness that timing changed with the advent of computers. That during college, you know, graphic

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design became a thing, you know. But before graphic design, the term was—the term commercial art was used. And that's a whole different medium where you have to cut and paste. The term cut and paste comes from commercial art.

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And that's because you literally had to cut and paste. You know, unlike the computers where you can move images around, back in the day, in the commercial art, you had to cut and paste and lay it on a board and move things.

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So heaven forbid you make a mistake. That would be a lot of—it would be a nightmare. So that's how I was able to stay in the path of art, because of the advent of Apple and graphic

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design. That's when I was able to leap into this area. But before then, even though I secretly loved art, I wasn't allowed to talk about it, act upon it. You know, I could appreciate it at school, but I definitely couldn't bring it home.

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Yeah. For me growing up, it was doctor, engineer, or lawyer. [laughs] Yeah, so I. When you said the three things, I was like, "Oh, I understand her." [VK: Yeah.] I think it's really cool how you were

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able to, like, kind of go from being scared of, like, pursuing art to, like, turning it into this whole career and company that you've made. I guess moving a little bit into, or away from your early life,

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into your life in the US, when did you move to the US and what prompted you to do so? So moving to the US, it was back in 1977. And—so clearly I was seven years old.

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It wasn't—I can't say it was my choice. I came because my family moved to Jacksonville, Arkansas. And you know, what prompted families, Koreans to move to US at the time was, again,

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to seek a better life. Like many immigrants, right? US was very powerful and still is today financially and so forth. In Korea back then, like I said,

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a lot of people didn't even have cars. The roads weren't even paved. It was dirt roads. People were still trying to make their way in life and coming out of the war only just basically less than two

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decades. So my-my parents, they were seeking for, you know, a better life for themselves and, you know, their children. So we were able to—through my-extension of our

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family moved to Jacksonville, Arkansas, of all places. And I have a story on that because, you know, it wasn't a metropolitan city. However, it was still a city or a bigger town compared to where pretty much we came

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from. You know, Seoul, you know, you wouldn't recognize, you know, back then. It was not even close to what it is today. Can you talk a little bit more about that divide that you noticed between moving from Seoul to Jacksonville and kind of like how you processed that and

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thought about it as a kid moving to— Yes, sure. So that was somewhat of a shell shock coming from, you know, a small community, right? Family-oriented community, going to school.

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And then coming to Jacksonville, Arkansas, where my whole life pretty much felt like it was turned upside down. And here are reasons why. One, I only knew Korean.

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I knew only how to speak Korean at the time. So much so—and Korea is, even today, is kind of homogenous. It's 99.9% Koreans. And so coming from that type of community, I thought everybody spoke Korean.

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You know, I'm a second grader, so I'm thinking, "English? What's English?" Right? Because I'm like, I thought everybody spoke Korean. But then coming to Jacksonville, you know, it was everybody but Asians. I think there was a movie around—I think a few years ago,

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movie came out about Koreans moving to Arkansas. I can completely relate to that, because going from a community of 100% Koreans to a town where we were the only Koreans in the family. And so it was a shell shock.

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Multiple reasons, I couldn't speak English. I only—I was taught immediately to say thank you or hello. And then, we had buses, you know, we didn't—we no longer had to walk to school. We had a school bus.

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And I remember my aunt taping 35 cents on my wrist because that was my lunch money. I know, inflation. 35 cents can't get you anything today. But at the time, I remember, you know, getting money wrapped around

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on my wrist so that I could-I could buy milk or, you know, lunch with that. And then—and then in school, I didn't understand a word kids were saying, nor the teacher.

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And it was such a shock for me that I cried the first week because I was—I was completely outside of my element. Right? And then these, you know, kids, they didn't see an Asian there either. I was completely an alien to them,

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so much so they would want to touch my hair. How crazy is that, right? They came to literally—I felt like a zombie. They all came to touch my hair.

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They never saw Asian hair before, which freaked me—that scared me even more. So—but fortunately, outside of that, everyone was kind. I like to say that, you know, people in Arkansas,

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they were very friendly. They were curious, you know, about Asians, but they were very welcoming and friendly, and I appreciated that. Do you recall any specific moments where you had some culture shocks

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or—I know you, like, mentioned some, like, broader things, but do you remember anything specific in general? Yeah, I have some stories on that. Well. Before I go on, I want to add to this story

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with the previous question. I had an ESL teacher. And he was the sweetest man because I had to learn—I had to really relearn communication. And if you go into language, the way Koreans think,

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the way they build grammar in their heads, right? In the speech—in speech, it's different. So, for example, even in Spanish, you say—or even Yoda, I think, to be funny. Yoda says, hungry you are.

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Well, that's actually makes better sense in Asian—in Korean. Because if you directly translate Korean, that's how Koreans speak. Stomach is hungry. Right? So in my communication, that's how I'm thinking.

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But in English, you flip that object from subject, noun, pronoun. So it was extraordinarily hard for me to not only shift the language, but, you know, just the language, but the-the formation of my words.

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Does that make sense? So that was very difficult. Some of the things that was different in the US was, you know, the abundance. You know, you have grocery stores in the US.

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We didn't have that. It was an outdoor market. So that was different. I remember looking at–at the grocery store, you know, you have the glass fridge with all the desserts.

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I remember just looking with a hundred perce—with pure desire. [laughs] Looking at the cookies and the desserts. Because we didn't have that. We didn't have cookies and desserts in Korea.

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And by then to get a taste and then to see a whole, you know, refrigerator—glass refrigerator of, you know, amazing things was, you know, delightful. The—just the abundance of food from fruit stand—I mean,

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the fruit cartons, carts and so forth, the grocery store. That was—that was definitely a–a change. And then fashion, clothes was different. Holidays, you know, we celebrated new holidays.

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Christmas, you know, that was different. I remember the fashion was different. Now, you would think, well, what do kids know about fashion? Well, we had no fashion in school in Korea.

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We had uniforms. So it was pretty straightforward wearing school uniforms every day. And then in the US, we didn't have uniforms. So, you know, you had to learn that as you grow up in the US.

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Yeah, you have to pay attention to fashion because if you don't, you're going to be one of the misfits, right? So that was certainly a learning experience. When you were talking about like, crying because not knowing English,

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it's like, funny because me and my brother were both born in the US. But when my mom took us to preschool because we grew up speaking Vietnamese at home, I remember my brother, like always crying—whenever—because like, they were speaking English and then like,

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I would cry because he would cry. But it's like funny to look back on because it's now like, I speak English better than I speak Vietnamese. And it's like, yeah. So it's just a little—

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I can relate to you. Exactly. Because now, I think in English now, you know? But back then I'm like, who–who thinks in English? Yeah. [CN: Yeah.] I remember as a—also in second grade coming to the US,

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we went to McDonald's. And you know, I know it's a controversy today, but at that time. Wow, that was a treat. To go to McDonald's, you know.

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In fact, if I got good grades, we went to McDonald's. You know? So that was a fun experience. Yeah. It was the—for me, it was like my dad taking me to the convenience store to buy like, candy.

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Oh! Exactly, right? Yeah. So, along the same vein as you sharing about the grocery stores and all of the culture shocks you experienced, would you say the US was everything that you had expected,

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or how was it different in comparison to mass media or other information that was portrayed to you before you came to the US? So, you know, because I came rather when I was young, I didn't have any expectations of what US was supposed to be like.

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All I knew was one day I was on a plane and then we were here in America. But maybe what I can say is living in Arkansas for about three years. In 1980, our family moved to Houston. Now that was another shock, right?

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Because in Arkansas—Jacksonville, Arkansas, even today, it's a very small town. Coming to Houston, which was much bigger, it was considered a metropolitan city. Now I didn't expect, but

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I got a lot of backlash from Houstonians to—on prejudism. I didn't have—I didn't have any knowledge of prejudi—prejudism? I thought, you know, people were just generally nice.

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I didn't have that in Korea. Naturally. I didn't have it in Arkansas. Naturally, people were curious, but they weren't mean. Houston? That's when I first—it was,

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you know, a complete experience in prejudism and hate. And—wow. How can—I don't know if we should even go into that. But as far as shock, that's something that I was shocked about,

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moving to Houston. The sheer feeling of not being welcome. In the—you know—we could break it down to the psychology on why bigger cities have so much racism. But definitely, you would think small towns would have racism.

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Actually, it's the alternative. It's the opposite. It's bigger cities that actually, to me, people experience racism and hate versus small towns.

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Yeah. If you feel comfortable, do you mind sharing any discrimination that you faced in Houston or, in general, experiences with discrimination or racism in the US?

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Oh, yeah. In Houston, throughout school, you know, throughout being an adult. You know, I've experienced that, people just telling me, you know, go back to my country.

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You know, they didn't want Asians here. And you would think, you know, with–with social media and what you think people are more sophisticated now, but it's actually. Unfortunately, it's not true.

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If you look different, then they don't want you here. And-and again, this may sound too binary, but unfortunately when the general group feel uncomfortable because you look different, they don't want you in-in the area, in the neighborhood.

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So coming-moving to Houston, our family moved to Houston in 1980, and going to junior high at the time—I started going to junior high. At the bus stops—you know, and I think junior high is a tough time for any kids as well, because that's when kids start really

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bullying other kids. And it was one of the survival experiences, you know? I-It was terrifying going to bus stops every day because we lived in a low-income—again, as immigrants, we weren't, you know, my family didn't—we weren't—my family weren't educated in

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Korea. They-they didn't even go to school. They were just the survivors of the Korean War or the family of the Korean War. So they were immigrants, they didn't get an education. They were just working to survive or just, you know,

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have a better life in the US. Me being their, you know, offspring. You know, I was just trying to improve my life as well growing up. So, unfortunately, we lived in low-income neighborhoods.

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And in low-income area, you know, people are all struggling. And when people are struggling, they're all, you know, compe—they see each other as competition. And I think this goes into sociology or, you know,

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just community awareness. So when people are competing in low-income neighborhoods, that's why you have so much violence. So being at the bus stop every day, oh my gosh,

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it was a survival. You know. Either you are ready to get beat up or you just want to li—you know, get through the day. You want to just get, you know, quietly, you know, keep your head down, get on the bus,

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go to school, not get racist remarks, even from your teachers. My teachers even didn't like me. For many reasons, I have no idea. But I remember them, you know, either being tough on me or telling

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me, asking if I even understood English. Even though we were speaking in English. Like, you know, "You can't understand English. You need to go back to your country," even from my own teachers. And then you get back on the bus again and you're home.

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So. I just feel—to just find some form of resolve, I just assume that when you live in low-income areas, everyone's competing. And they just want to all make it through the day.

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And when—it's in that type of scenario, just the children are in unhappy homes and they just want to take it out on other children who, other kids who may seem inferior to them. And so I—that was my first, you know,

00:28:31.830 - 00:28:46.200

experience in hate. People just want to hate if you're different. And I got called all kinds of names, name it. You know, people laugh about it. We can laugh about it now. But at the time it was really terrifying going to school,

00:28:46.200 - 00:29:00.720

which added a lot of stress being in school. And I-and I feel sorry for children nowadays when we talk about, you know, being bullied. Because when you're being bullied, man, you can't focus

00:29:00.720 - 00:29:13.950

on your education. You can't. You know, because you just want to walk down the hallway without, you know, being made fun of, you know, or being pushed around. And you want to find friends who will have your back,

00:29:13.950 - 00:29:24.780

you know, things like that. So—but fortunately, high school was a little better in Houston. And then over time, you know, I outgrew it. You know, I became smarter.

00:29:24.780 - 00:29:37.840

I was able to find myself as a human being. And then I was able to, you know. Work-work those type of situations out. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing.

00:29:37.840 - 00:29:47.920

That sounds like such a hard thing to go through. I'm so sorry. You know, I'd like to add to that because this is my message. Because here's a stereotype, right?

00:29:47.950 - 00:30:03.480

Asians statistically do well in school. Well, it's in—it's inherent in our community to study. Like I said, in Korea, you know, coming out of the war scenario, everybody felt that education was the way out.

00:30:03.480 - 00:30:21.080

Right? So that's why we're—the kids are pushed into higher education and academia and so forth. So it's really-it's-it's very inherent in our communities. Now, with that said, not all kids, not all Asian kids have that level of family

00:30:21.080 - 00:30:37.150

belief system, if that makes sense. Some families, some Asian families just are even a situation where they just want to be able to get by financially, right? Education isn't even on the top of the list because they just—some families just want to,

00:30:37.180 - 00:30:50.920

you know, make ends meet. And so, some Asian children don't have the benefit of, you know, having the ideal family scenarios. And unfortunately, you know—and I guess it just depends on how you look at it,

00:30:50.920 - 00:30:59.770

if the cup is half full or half empty. I was from that camp, you know. I was from the camp of, even in Houston community, growing up in a low-income area.

00:30:59.770 - 00:31:10.540

Like I'm sure you heard Alief. Where Asians, there were a lot of Asian gangs. You know? I know that community, right? I-I grew up in that community.

00:31:10.540 - 00:31:21.400

Right? The reason the Asians—there were rise in Asian gangs was because it's-it's just all tribal. It's somewhat low income at the time. And you know, there's racism.

00:31:21.400 - 00:31:32.290

So Asian kids had to find their way to survive. Now, I'm not making excuses for them. But there's—there are multiple factors. But anyway, so the stereotype is, oh, Asians.

00:31:32.290 - 00:31:45.890

They're, you know, they're docile. They take orders. They just want to study. They go to, you know, great colleges, you know. Outside looking in, the Asian community, that's the general stereotype,

00:31:45.890 - 00:32:02.140

that Asians just want to study. They go to colleges and live a very docile, quiet life. But there is a segment of Asians that didn't even have that. They didn't have the–the push of, you know,

00:32:02.140 - 00:32:17.380

becoming highly educated because it was just about paying the bills or just surviving as immigrants. You know, wanted to make it to the next day. Yeah, I think that's a really important perspective as well.

00:32:18.040 - 00:32:36.220

I guess kind of going off of what you were saying with Asian communities especially like in Alief, like you said, was your family or were you able to find any solid Korean communities when you arrived, either in Arkansas or in Houston?

00:32:37.110 - 00:32:56.160

Yeah. In Houston—like I said, in Arkansas, there were no Asians. So in Houston, you know, people back then, they congregated in churches. So, you know, of course you had religion, the churches. But, you know, the churches—yes,

00:32:56.160 - 00:33:11.580

you had the religion, but it really—people congregated because it was a community. You know, they could find each other through the church, you know, and reminisce of the home they left and to be able to help each other, you know,

00:33:11.580 - 00:33:25.410

while speaking the same language. And be able to relate on, you know, the lives that everyone was living—sharing. Yeah. So churches were very important, are still important to, you know, communities now.

00:33:25.680 - 00:33:35.680

Yeah. Were you a part of those churches? And are you still religious now, if you were? I grew up in a church.

00:33:35.680 - 00:33:51.770

Absolutely. But today I am not. And, you know, wow. That can, you know, we can branch off into a whole different conversation. But I feel that up to a certain age that you—you

00:33:51.770 - 00:34:04.550

are—the identity that we possess is the identity we were taught to be, if that makes sense. And again, that might sound binary, but, you know, we think we are that person. But when you, in hindsight, we are the person we think we are because of

00:34:04.550 - 00:34:17.600

all the things that were indoctrinated. But you come to a point in your life where you start questioning, who am I? And so when I—so, you know, in Asian cultures, this is what a woman's role was.

00:34:17.600 - 00:34:33.570

Women's role in Asian culture is get an education, find your husband in college. Get married, have children, have a house, and your life is set. Don't ask any questions because that's the playbook of a woman's

00:34:33.570 - 00:34:47.740

life. Education. Find a husband. Get married. Have a house, have children, and then your life is set. Well, I did all that. Because, you know, I didn't-I didn't learn to question so much. I'm like, well, elders know best.

00:34:47.740 - 00:34:58.800

I'm just going to follow the playbook. And that's exactly what I did. But I hit 30. And I started to ask questions like, who am I? And maybe that's a dangerous question,

00:34:58.800 - 00:35:14.330

but I went ahead and started to seek more deeply. And that question led me to question even my own religious beliefs. So, I stopped going to church. I got a divorce.

00:35:14.330 - 00:35:31.660

And it was not easy going through this shift in my life. But, you know, I'm so glad that I did because I was able to find myself. But as far as answering your question on religion, the reason I am not—I don't consider myself a

00:35:31.660 - 00:35:47.290

Christian—although I find the church and the Bible has a lot of fantastic truths and wisdom. I still, I wear even a Christian emblem, you know, my necklace. However, it is not the entire truth.

00:35:47.290 - 00:36:02.710

You know, I think it's important for every individual to answer the question, who am I? And be able to answer that question by either traveling the world or reading a lot of books, or seeking mentors and inquiring and asking a lot of questions to other people.

00:36:02.860 - 00:36:18.700

Because it's important to see life outside of just your own perspective. And with that, you can find your own answer. And for me on religion, I found my peace by reading many other different books on wisdom.

00:36:18.700 - 00:36:36.390

And I was able to find my own beliefs. Yeah, I think I really empathize with that—like while you were saying all that, because I similarly grew up in a Vietnamese church community as a result of my family. But like, now, like going through college,

00:36:36.390 - 00:36:48.540

I've, like recently really been like, do I believe in that? Like, what do I want—I don't know. I think everything that you just said really resonated with me. It's like, well, I'm not 30 [laughs] or married, but I think,

00:36:48.540 - 00:36:59.430

like everything that you just said was like, wow, that is me right now. That's crazy. That's fantastic. You know, good for you. Good for you that you're asking that question at your age now,

00:36:59.430 - 00:37:15.540

you know, you don't want to just live with someone else's playbook. You know, you can. You certainly can. It's your choice. But it's wise to first answer the questions yourself first and make it an actual choice.

00:37:17.110 - 00:37:32.110

Mhm. Yeah, definitely. Kind of segueing from your life moving to the US and then going into kind of, your education now. What—I knew—I know you already kind of touched with it

00:37:32.110 - 00:37:49.750

earlier talking about your passion in art, but what drew you to pursue graphic design specifically at UH? So, like I said, you know, sometimes it's just life is sometimes just about timing. Actually I, with my own beliefs,

00:37:49.750 - 00:38:03.640

I feel a lot of our decisions are based on timing. We think it's our decision, but it's—a big factor is just timing. And the timing was, you know, Apple computer. And not to give Steve Jobs all the credit, but you know,

00:38:03.640 - 00:38:19.270

apple computer and, you know, Adobe software just made it so much easier to build a career of being an artist. Now, today I would love to have maybe considered being a full-time artist, like being a painter.

00:38:19.270 - 00:38:33.550

You know, I love watercolor, I love oil and photography. And when I go to museums or art galleries, I envy all of those artists. Somehow they have the courage to stick with it.

00:38:33.550 - 00:38:51.190

Right? But I didn't. But I don't regret going down the path of graphic design because it's just another form of medium in artistry. The difference between graphic design and being a fine artist is that fine artist, the art is all yours.

00:38:51.190 - 00:39:07.960

You own that art. Whereas in graphic design and commercial art, it's a—it's a collaboration between yourself and the brand. Right? So it's an art form that you collaborate. I was able to utilize my artistic skills.

00:39:07.960 - 00:39:23.740

I-I still use my illustration skills in graphic design when it comes to building a logo. Designing a logo for a brand, or illustration for a brand. You know, fortunately, I'm—I'm able to illustrate without having to

00:39:23.740 - 00:39:38.060

buy stock art, if that makes sense. I can actually illustrate or, you know, or deliver photography. So where does the art come from? I think art, it's kind of like people who can sing.

00:39:38.060 - 00:39:51.290

Some people just have the skills to just illustrate, right? Like realism, the art of realism. Some people can just kind of paint a whole landscape without erasing, you know, just in one stroke they can paint a whole beautiful landscape.

00:39:51.290 - 00:40:03.050

And some people have to practice their way. They have to understand light and shadow. Under—they have to understand, you know, the medium that they use. And you can get there, but there's still some form of this inherent

00:40:03.050 - 00:40:14.060

gift people possess. And I do consider it a gift because you know what? I can't sing worth, worth a–worth a darn. Like, go to karaoke, everyone will walk out. I don't have the voice.

00:40:14.060 - 00:40:27.260

Some people are born with this gifted voice. They didn't practice. But as soon as, you know, you put a mic in front of them, they sing like an angel, you know? So there's a sense of gift like this for arti–artists as well.

00:40:27.260 - 00:40:45.590

They just have the proclivity to put colors together or just illustrate. Or just, you know, create this fine art with their hands. But it does take—it does require, you know, ongoing practice.

00:40:45.590 - 00:41:01.700

Because if you don't use your gift, you will lose it. So with graphic design, I, like I said, I was very fortunate on the timing with the Mac. I went—I finished my—I got my degree at University of Houston

00:41:01.700 - 00:41:18.630

with a Graphic Design arts degree and minor in Art History. And I was just able to get, you know, a job immediately because graphic design—graphic design was a thing. And you know what? You may not know it now, but back then,

00:41:18.630 - 00:41:32.250

you know, when I heard graphic design was—was even mentioned on television, I was so excited because it validated my work. [laughs] Back then, you know, they were like, "Graphic design? What is that? You're not a doctor, then you're nobody." You know,

00:41:32.250 - 00:41:45.660

they—I would—I would just kind of preempt—I would think that I heard that. But when I heard graphic design on—in a movie screen, I'm like, "Oh my God, that just validated my whole profession. I feel like I'm somebody." You know?

00:41:47.100 - 00:41:59.220

[laughs] And I stuck with it. And I stuck with it. And, you know, and I do believe that you have to love what you do. Because I can't imagine waking up and doing something you hate.

00:41:59.220 - 00:42:16.170

I just can't imagine what life like that would be like. And what were some defining moments that you had in college, both academic and non-academic, that kind of inspired you and has stuck with you up until where you are now?

00:42:17.940 - 00:42:34.700

Timing is everything, and I believe in the invisible hand of God. So with that foundation. You know, art was just something ingrained in me. I just, you know, ever since I was a kid, I–I just drew,

00:42:34.700 - 00:42:48.980

starting with anime. I loved art, you know, I was that person who would doodle, you know. I just find something to draw all the time. And I would, yeah, be that person who would draw eyes, look at people, and I start drawing—drawing them. I loved drawing, I just one of those closet

00:42:49.100 - 00:43:04.340

artists, you know. I couldn't talk about it openly because in-in my community, you know, everybody talked about being a doctor. And so, I just enjoyed art. That's who I—I liked being.

00:43:04.340 - 00:43:19.310

Being an artist. And with that, in college, I just did it because that was what I-I just enjoy, you know, I-I. To be honest, to be frank, I wasn't even sure if I was going to go to college.

00:43:19.310 - 00:43:31.490

But, you know, the reason I went was because my family was accepted to go to college. You know, heaven forbid, if you don't go to college, you're—you're in trouble. So I went to college by default because that's what you're supposed to do. That's

00:43:31.490 - 00:43:43.880

part of the playbook, right? Go to college, find a husband, get married. I was following those orders. So it's not like I had this inspiration to go to college. It was something you were—it was a checkmark on your list.

00:43:43.880 - 00:43:58.090

And so being in college, I still just enjoy doing art. That was my favorite class. It wasn't my major at the time, but it was my favorite class,

00:43:58.090 - 00:44:17.150

or the elective. And so—but because of timing, because graphic design was right around the corner, I was just able to weave my way in and make it into a profession. And, kind of segueing from your work in graphic design in

00:44:17.150 - 00:44:34.130

college to your career now, could you provide us with a brief timeline of your professional experiences and tell us how your professional interests have evolved over time? Yes. So being an artist, right?

00:44:34.130 - 00:44:49.040

It-It's inherent within me. And so it's not something I like to compare myself with someone who practiced their way to be a graphic designer. I'm inherently an artist, so, you know, I've—to verify what—what

00:44:49.040 - 00:45:02.690

this means is I asked, like, a facial reconstructive surgeon, like, "Hey, when you look in the world, do you look at everyone's faces and want to reconstruct their face?" You know? Because is that what you do?

00:45:02.690 - 00:45:15.140

Because that's what you do in your career, right? So when you look in the world, is that how you look at the world? Because when I look at the world every day, I look at the world with the visual composition. Yeah. That's just how I look at the world.

00:45:15.140 - 00:45:23.840

I look at the—when I look at my desk, I look at it, "Oh, is it messy? Is it clean?" No. I look at it like, you know—you know how you see artists, they are always framing things.

00:45:23.840 - 00:45:38.750

That's actually how I look at the world. When I-I look at color, I look at light and shadow, that's just how I shape my world. Now, do all graphic designers or business owners—how—I don't know how

00:45:38.750 - 00:45:52.000

they look at the world, but this is how I look at the world. So in graphic design, it was just very natural for me to design because that's just my element. And so from going to college, in college, you know,

00:45:52.000 - 00:46:10.620

doing projects related to art or, you know, learning art history. I just very much appreciated even art history because it was about art and how much art influences society. You know? You can see it directly or you can see

00:46:10.620 - 00:46:23.400

indirectly, but it is all around us. It's how you perceive the world. So in college it was more about, you know, the–the tangible. Light and shadows, the color palette, graphic design,

00:46:23.400 - 00:46:37.260

fonts, different paper ta—you know, palettes, textures, you know, learning all the tangibles. But over time, as an adult, starting my own business, you get to learn that art goes—is much bigger than that.

00:46:37.260 - 00:46:52.200

It's the intangibles, right? What-what helps people draw towards more art? What is art? Even answering the question, what is art? Right? And that's what I learned as an adult once I left

00:46:52.200 - 00:47:07.930

college. Right? Art is all around us. And we can get into more philosophical question on what that is, but I can definitely—I can say that art is all around us, and life without art pretty much would be non-existent.

00:47:10.280 - 00:47:25.790

And I guess, what were the, like specific roles or experiences that you had that led up to your career now? Your design company as well as like the Asian Social and everything that you've started, like, I guess, like, how have you gotten there with all your previous roles?

00:47:26.480 - 00:47:38.330

All the leaps and milestones? So after college. Okay, so here's a little–I'm going to tell about myself and being an artist. You know, in college you have to–you know, the last two years or to get–in order

00:47:38.330 - 00:47:51.950

to get to your, you know, degree. You have to–I had to try out to get into a particular program in graphic design. Where a lot of people said, no, I have, you know, you-you have to take the program twice in order to make it because you have

00:47:51.950 - 00:48:04.880

to try out for the program. And it–you know, the rumor was that it was so hard. On average, everyone had to repeat the program twice in order to even be considered to be accepted for the program,

00:48:04.880 - 00:48:20.420

if that makes sense. But for me, I was like, look, I don't have time to repeat any program. I have to get through one time. And I did. So I was able to be accepted into the program one time because of my artistic skills that I feel that I was born

00:48:20.420 - 00:48:33.020

with. And with that, I quickly graduated college, and then I was able to get a job immediately. So I was able to accelerate quickly in-in the career field and then in–when I

00:48:33.930 - 00:48:48.720

worked at various organizations. I worked for Compaq Computers, which later got bought out by HP. I quickly accelerated from being a graphic designer to, you know, upper management where I was handling their brand,

00:48:48.720 - 00:49:00.840

the corporate Compaq brand. That's a pretty big deal, right? It's–imagine going from college, graduating, and then in a couple of years handling the HP brand or the Apple brand,

00:49:00.840 - 00:49:17.520

you know. So it's moving, I was able to move pretty quickly. And then, I was able to also get a lot of awards in the commercial field because, you know, there's awards for, you know, galas, awards program for every profession.

00:49:17.520 - 00:49:32.310

So along with that, I received a lot of awards. I won competitions in design and things like that. And I learned that, you know, actually, it's a business as well. Those awards galas are–it's a business as well.

00:49:32.310 - 00:49:48.480

And personally, for me, I felt like, well, I won, I got–I–I validated, you know, my capabilities and the professional world. I don't need to keep doing this. So it just validated or gave me the

00:49:48.480 - 00:50:03.670

courage that I knew what I was doing. Now, of course, I'm not saying I was the best. That's very subjective, but I felt pretty confident of the work that I did. And I'm still confident

00:50:03.700 - 00:50:22.030

now. Which then gave me the proclivity to start my own business. And now I have a lot of other reasons to why I started my business. But I think also it's kind of innate to–I have–about my personality. I just have the drive and the curiosity to try new things.

00:50:22.030 - 00:50:39.700

So I started my business and fortunately, I'm able to–I have a-a very acute sense of hearing sometimes with what clients want in their branding. And I can pretty–deliver pretty quickly. So which accelerated the ability to build my business,

00:50:39.700 - 00:50:51.280

if that makes sense. And, you know, and it's a combination. People can start their own business, but if they don't like what they do, you know, if they're doing it because they're chasing the money. Man, that-that sounds miserable, doesn't it?

00:50:51.280 - 00:51:09.100

You know, if you're just doing something to chase money or to chase status. Right? So I, you know, I tell everyone that I meet how much I love what I do because I actually do. And I think that makes life worth living, if that makes sense.

00:51:09.100 - 00:51:19.820

It's just–it's makes it interesting. And your work will show because you love what you do. Yeah. I hope I answered your question. Yeah. No, no, no, that was perfect.

00:51:19.820 - 00:51:37.870

I wanted to touch a little bit more on your entrepreneurial pursuits with founding the Asian Social and your own creative company. What was your experience with starting those endeavors? So having–so having a business or running your own

00:51:37.870 - 00:51:55.930

business is a whole different animal than being an artist or being a professional in a–in a career. Having your own business will definitely stretch you as an individual. It'll stretch you as an individual. And it–it definitely helped me grow as an

00:51:55.930 - 00:52:10.750

individual as well, because you realize quickly you're not on an island. You have to learn to work with people very well. And it's not linear. If you work at a company, you know your role. You know your input and you know–you know your output.

00:52:10.750 - 00:52:21.220

It's pretty routine, right? As long as you stay in your lane, you're good. But as an entrepreneur starting out, you have to wear many hats. You have to have many roles with yourself.

00:52:21.220 - 00:52:34.960

You have to also–i-it's not the the bias of "Oh, if you have your own business, you could travel and have fun anytime you want in the day." No, actually it truly is the opposite in that you have to learn how to balance your schedule.

00:52:34.960 - 00:52:49.960

You have to learn how to balance your work. You have to learn how to balance even your emotions. Actually, that's very important. You have to emotionally grow up very quickly. You realize very quickly the difference between IQ and EQ.

00:52:49.990 - 00:53:05.020

Growing up. Everyone tells you the importance of IQ as an entrepreneur. Actually, IQ is secondary. It's EQ, and unfortunately, not enough people talk about the importance of EQ. Emotional quotient–quotient, right?

00:53:05.020 - 00:53:17.630

So being an entrepreneur that–it taught me how to balance my emotions, not just for myself. How to balance everyone else's emotions, if that makes sense. And you can't always be reactive to other people.

00:53:17.630 - 00:53:32.030

So there's a lot of psychology behind being an entrepreneur. So how did it become, how did I evolve from having, being a business owner, having ykcreative then now I have another brand called Asian Social?

00:53:32.990 - 00:53:46.490

The reason is, with ykcreative, working for–helping other businesses with their brand and with their marketing, which is very psychological. And if you know, if you–if people do their homework about branding,

00:53:46.490 - 00:54:02.000

marketing, it's not just graphic design combining pretty pictures. It's very psychological. In fact, a lot of people who go into psychology become marketing experts. Yeah, because it's all about how people think.

00:54:02.000 - 00:54:16.310

You know, it's about understanding people's behaviors. That's marketing. So it's not about creating pretty pictures. That's where I started. But then having my own business, I was able to learn about people's

00:54:16.310 - 00:54:30.430

behaviors. Understanding people's buying habits, understanding people's behaviors in general, you know, going from cause and effect. So running ykcreative for over 20 years, and I still have the business and which

00:54:30.430 - 00:54:46.690

I love. Having this business, I spoke to many, many people. Many people who are business owners, professionals, you know, CEOs, C-suite. I've spoken to people at all levels.

00:54:47.310 - 00:55:03.630

Many different backgrounds. Local. Foreign. And it gave me the ability–gave me the, you know, the opportunity to talk to so many people with various backgrounds. And with that said, I was also able to

00:55:03.630 - 00:55:20.180

hear, you know. Some of the things, some of the problems as a community that they were facing. And I myself as an Asian, you know, I have a perspective as an Asian business owner and which I'm able to share with other business owners

00:55:20.180 - 00:55:35.890

who are Asian. Also, I'm able to understand non-Asian, you know, non-Asians' perspective on Asians, if that makes sense. Why? Because I'm in the business to ask-ask about human behaviors. And they tell me. Right?

00:55:35.890 - 00:55:51.580

So Asian Social came about after years of talking and-and just kind of reflecting on the conversations I had that there's this gap. Right? And again, I'm being binary, I'm being general.

00:55:51.580 - 00:56:07.120

But the general understanding is. A lot of people, well, Asians have to come under this umbrella called "Asians" because we're just not big in number as a community, right—y-you, to be counted for in the US.

00:56:07.120 - 00:56:23.380

I mean, we're-we're still considered a small group of people compared to everyone else, right? The Latins or African Americans, and so forth. Asians as an individual country are small in number. So we have to come together under this umbrella of "Asian" to be counted for.

00:56:23.980 - 00:56:40.950

Make sense? However, that's kind of much of a misnomer because Asian countries aren't really that united. We all have different cultures. We all speak different languages. We have different traditions. We're not really the

00:56:40.950 - 00:56:54.960

same. We don't–we don't speak the same language. The Latin Americans, it's the same geographic profile. But at least they can speak Spanish in one shape or form. Like, I'm Korean by descent.

00:56:54.960 - 00:57:11.250

I can't speak, you know, Chinese or Vietnamese. I can't speak, you know–but we are somewhat grouped under one big umbrella, so you can see the various challenges there under the umbrella of Asians. However, we need to use that umbrella to create a sense of voice to come

00:57:11.250 - 00:57:30.600

together and to unite with the non-Asians. So there are two main points that Asian Social is trying to resolve, and that is to educate one another about each other's cultures under the Asian umbrella.

00:57:30.600 - 00:57:44.040

Like, I can learn a lot about the Vietnamese community. And the Vietnamese can–can learn a lot about Koreans. I can still learn a lot about the Korean culture that I may have missed growing up here. So that resolves that issue.

00:57:44.040 - 00:57:55.920

If we all kind of come play together under this Asian Social, we can learn a lot about each other. And while we're learning a lot about each other, each other's background, culture, tradi–traditions and so forth and so

00:57:55.920 - 00:58:08.460

forth, we can then take that information and make it feasible for the non-Asians, right? Because I can't imagine. They even tell me—I mean, when I go to Chinatown,

00:58:08.460 - 00:58:20.940

I'm intimidated. With all these nooks and crannies, I don't know where to go. I go to some restaurants and I don't even know what to order, you know. If I–but then they come to me. Non-Asians come to me, "Hey, go to Chinatown with,

00:58:20.940 - 00:58:32.460

you know, take us with you." And my response is, "Well, I'm just as confused," you know. And sometimes, you know, some restaurants I know. So–so it hits two birds with one stone.

00:58:32.460 - 00:58:47.550

One is for, you know, Asians to come together, educate each other in a safe place. And then the non-Asians can also–we can close the gap with the non-Asians, so then we can educate them while we're learning about each other.

00:58:47.550 - 00:58:59.410

Does that make sense? [CN: Yeah.] So it's to close the gap. It's to close the gap. Yeah, I think that's really cool. I feel like in college, I experienced that a lot with,

00:58:59.410 - 00:59:16.430

like, my friends that are like Chinese or Korean or Filipino. It's like we are all Asian and we have similar experiences because of that. But it's like, individually, like, we are so different in our upbringing. So yeah, a lot of what you're saying is like very applicable.

00:59:17.630 - 00:59:31.040

Yeah. And, you know, I have to add to that because the question is even-even Indians, right? The line is still blurry. What-what are Asian? I mean, who-how do you define Asian? Is it by Asian continent?

00:59:31.040 - 00:59:49.680

Who defines whether a group is an Asian or not? Right? So that's a conversation that still needs to be, you know, defined or refined, you know. Kind of talking a little bit more about Asian businesses and the Asian

00:59:49.680 - 01:00:04.530

Social. A number of Asian businesses, especially like restaurants, groceries, private clinics, benefit from your craft and your expertise. Since founding the Asian Social, are there any specific Asian-owned businesses that you've been able to offer the most help?

01:00:05.750 - 01:00:23.360

Oh, absolutely. You know what's exciting is, the other branch of Asian Social that has been well-received is that we're going to spin off to a–as a media company. Right? So we're championing, Asian Social is championing,

01:00:23.360 - 01:00:38.720

Asian culture. Restaurants, businesses, events, and people. So, imagine, like even the Latin community, they have Telemundo or Univision, right? To highlight their community.

01:00:38.750 - 01:00:55.370

Where do Asians go? Right now, Asians go to KHOU or Fox 26. You know, they still go to the mainstream media to get recognized. Asians don't have that and there are multiple reasons why. It's nothing wrong, but it's just timing.

01:00:55.370 - 01:01:11.090

It's just timing. Everyone's just so busy. Maybe, in fact, I know that in the West, in the US, it's not very organized either. The media there for Asian–Asians is not very organized,

01:01:11.090 - 01:01:27.320

and it's precisely because Asian isn't truly a continent—I mean, it's not a country. It's a concept, right? So having a media, you know, they may have it for individual, you know, country. Like Filipino media or Vietnamese media,

01:01:27.320 - 01:01:42.680

Chinese media. But the media for all of Asian is–it's in its infancy. So the goal of Asian Social is to become the media for Asians. First in Houston and then throughout the country.

01:01:45.990 - 01:02:00.180

Oh, but let me answer your question. Has anyone benefited? Absolutely. One is–because of Asian Social–you know, there are many subgroups, right? Like the chambers or, you know, just groups in general.

01:02:00.180 - 01:02:15.260

Chinese chamber, Filipino ch—there's a lot of chambers. There are a lot of mini groups, subgroups in the Asian community. But the other i—like I said, they don't necessarily merge, right? Because everyone's just busy maintaining their own groups,

01:02:15.410 - 01:02:33.270

but because we were able to–what is that word? I can't come up with a word. What is that word where everyone kind of mixes and mingles together? There's a word for that. Cross-pollinate. [laughs] Cross-pollinate.

01:02:33.300 - 01:02:49.580

So what we've done is cross-pollinate different groups. So groups that would have not necessarily have worked together collaborated. And we've started that. We kicked that off. So now we're greeting, you know,

01:02:49.580 - 01:03:00.070

new group–I hate to say new groups. So what's happening is, you know, Group A here that would have never really interacted with Group B, now they're interacting. And they're saying, oh wow.

01:03:00.070 - 01:03:13.330

There's, you know, a whole lot of newer opportunities that can evolve out of the new relationships. Right? So that's what's happening. We've helped Asian, one specific one, a

01:03:13.330 - 01:03:30.490

cosmetic company out of California that launched here in Houston. We were able to get them a lot of media attention. So they-they very much appreciate that as well. I-I know I can't be very specific,

01:03:30.490 - 01:03:44.800

but there's a lot happening right now behind the scenes that in fact, Asian Social is growing much faster than I had anticipated. Now granted, I started this in February, I launched in February, and-and guess what? I thought, okay, I'm, you know, as a marketer,

01:03:44.800 - 01:03:54.370

I'm just going to put it out there and not be so much of a theory. Let's see what the reception's like. That's what people are going to say. You know, let's get the temperature.

01:03:55.900 - 01:04:08.110

It's been going so quickly that it's like, I'm trying to keep my head above water. I'm trying to keep my head up and, you know, be very rational in the steps that I take. And it's been fantastic.

01:04:08.140 - 01:04:16.420

I'm excited. Yeah. You sound like you're suffering from success right now. [laughs] No, I still have a long way to go.

01:04:16.540 - 01:04:28.630

Let me be honest. I still have a long way to go. But it's definitely, it's just very exciting. Yeah. And then I guess because you're–have a lot of experience as an Asian business

01:04:28.630 - 01:04:45.490

owner, other than obviously social media, branding, effective website design, what advice do you find that Asian business owners need the most? You know, there's not–there's not only one answer.

01:04:45.490 - 01:04:58.000

There's not only one answer. In fact, is there any way to, you want to be more specific? How can we be more specific to that question? Like, how do you you mean, like in growing?

01:04:58.000 - 01:05:16.000

How do we want to help them through scaling, growing, what do you–let's narrow it down just a little bit. Maybe you can talk about advice that Asian business owners need in terms of starting their own endeavors and entering markets where

01:05:16.030 - 01:05:32.110

Asian business owners aren't the majority? Maybe, like I guess in specific, you could talk about starting and like, getting something off the ground. Well, starting for Asian businesses, I think it would be,

01:05:32.740 - 01:05:50.010

here's a–here's one. When you start a business, a lot of people often fear well, where am I going to find my customers, right? And one aspect could be to remember that after the first or up to 1 or 3 years,

01:05:50.010 - 01:06:04.710

after you're able to sustain your business for up to 1 or 3 years, you can certify–get certified as a minority-owned business and get bigger jobs. And unfortunately, a lot of people don't know that.

01:06:04.710 - 01:06:23.650

So being certified as a minority-owned business is a gift. And what I mean by gift is you can apply for opportunities with the local government, state government or federal government. And depending on what it is that you're offering.

01:06:23.650 - 01:06:35.080

And again, it's timing. Sometimes it's construction, sometimes it's more administrative, sometimes it's professional media. Like we worked—ykcreative was hired by Houston

01:06:35.080 - 01:06:48.100

first to help with the marketing, with the hospitality segment here in Houston. And we were only able to get it because we were a certified minority-owned business. And minorities don't do it.

01:06:48.340 - 01:07:00.480

They don't apply for it. They don't get certified. And I can answer why, there are many factors to why they don't do it. But if–if my—if Asians did more of that, then

01:07:00.480 - 01:07:19.360

they could get larger opportunities through the city and the government. That would be an option. I see. Thank you for, hopefully anyone that is a business owner watches this and can hear your tips and tricks for

01:07:19.360 - 01:07:33.520

them. Another thing, well, I can add to that too, because I've heard other issues people would say. That like a specifically, I spoke to one Chinese professional.

01:07:33.520 - 01:07:49.760

She was in—she was a CPA and all her collateral was written in, I hate to say the word Chinese, but it was written in Chinese, right? I don't want to come across like I'm an ignorant, but I said,

01:07:49.760 - 01:08:01.430

well, do you market to English-speaking? Because I certainly couldn't read it, you know. She goes, no, I'm pretty busy, as you know, my–with my audience. I'm like, oh, okay. And I thought, well, you know,

01:08:01.430 - 01:08:18.660

she was fine. She was content, and more power to her. She was content with her, you know, size of her business and so forth. But then, still, as an entrepreneur, she's leaving off a whole segment of population who can only—who can do

01:08:18.660 - 01:08:34.050

business in English. Right? And I notice a lot of that in non-English speaking people. You know, in Latin Americans, you know, a lot of people who don't speak English only want to do business with people that only speak their language here in the

01:08:34.050 - 01:08:51.750

US. And my feedback is, why? Why would you want to limit your size? Why not, have, you know bi–be bilingual at the very minimum? I see. Good advice. Thank you.

01:08:53.640 - 01:09:10.500

And then also in regards to being an Asian business owner. Because of the pandemic, a lot of, as you know, I'm sure, a lot of anti-Asian sentiment or in general, discrimination came about as a result of Covid.

01:09:10.530 - 01:09:28.070

Have you noticed any differences in market response pre- and post-Covid to Asian-owned businesses? With my direct experience, no, I have not. I have not experienced any barriers

01:09:28.070 - 01:09:46.110

or challenges, you know, pre- or post-Covid for being Asian. Yeah. So I think we've come to an age where I think inclusion with DEI has been impactful. Now—but mind you, I'm an entrepreneur.

01:09:46.110 - 01:10:00.660

I'm a business owner. If I even get a whiff of someone who doesn't want me around, I don't stick around. I don't go like, why? I don't force myself into, you know, getting a business if someone doesn't want to do business with me. So that means I don't stick around and wonder,

01:10:00.660 - 01:10:14.460

is it because I'm Asian? Do you not want to do business if I'm Asian, you know, I don't ask that, those questions. Whereas, if I work for a corporation and I was denied a role. And it was obvious it wasn't because of

01:10:14.460 - 01:10:31.500

my skill set, then because I work at the company, I would inquire to find out why I didn't get a specific role. So I can imagine if–if I work at a company. It would–it would possibly be more prevalent.

01:10:33.100 - 01:10:50.320

For your—you know, post-Covid on racial–racial discrimination. But as an entrepreneur, as an—I'm more of an entrepreneur than an Asian. I don't identify myself as an Asian entrepreneur, more say—I identify myself as an entrepreneur with Asian

01:10:50.320 - 01:11:04.040

heritage. I see. Thank you for sharing. Also, I think you indicated a lot of professional organizations that you were a part of in your survey.

01:11:04.040 - 01:11:16.420

I wanted to ask how you got involved with those organizations, including the Asian Chamber of Commerce, the HMSCC, Business Network International. Those are just some of the ones you listed.

01:11:16.420 - 01:11:30.430

And any other various organizations–organizations that you indicated you were a part of. I think it stems from also knowing yourself. So I identify myself as an introvert.

01:11:30.550 - 01:11:44.710

So that means that I get recharged by being alone. And I think that's being an artist, also. But being an entrepreneur, you can't really—you can't just succumb to that personality.

01:11:44.710 - 01:12:01.690

You have to force yourself to be uncomfortable—to be okay to be uncomfortable. And with that, I forced myself to be a networker. Does that make sense? And in order to network, you can't network looking at the mirror.

01:12:01.690 - 01:12:17.620

You have to force yourself into groups that you wouldn't find yourself ordinarily. And so it's just easy as, you know, finding activities in your neighborhood and then asking questions, you know, other people are part of other networks,

01:12:17.620 - 01:12:29.680

and then you get invited and accepting invitations. So that's how I started, with me, as far as becoming part of different organizations. And then, you know, you find mentors. And I think that's very important.

01:12:29.680 - 01:12:43.840

In addition to going to different networks, find a mentor. And get your mentor to advise you on different groups to, or follow them, you know, go to events that they go to, right? Force yourself outside of your own little bubble,

01:12:43.840 - 01:12:57.130

your sphere of influence. Yeah, the networking is a struggle. I get that. Yeah. You know, little advice for you.

01:12:57.280 - 01:13:08.620

It's not fun all the time. You have to kind of get in the groove. It's kind of like exercise. You, you know, you don't want to go, that. You don't want to exercise. But once you exercise,

01:13:08.620 - 01:13:22.400

you're like, oh, yeah, you're, you know, you're in–you're in motion, momentum, and it's fine afterwards. Right? So networking is just like that. And so you just kind of have to remember, you know,

01:13:22.400 - 01:13:34.490

the positive. Yeah, I think that's a really good way to look at it that I need to internalize. Yeah. There's always a next one. You know, people, I've talked to people who are like, ah,

01:13:34.490 - 01:13:46.760

I didn't do so well. I didn't meet a lot of people. But I advise people to network to learn about yourself. Because you can improve your speaking skills, you can improve your communication.

01:13:46.760 - 01:14:03.200

You can improve your style, right? You can test your look when you go to different groups. It's a great way to learn about yourself. Yeah. I think I've made you talk enough about your

01:14:03.200 - 01:14:17.570

career, but for the latter part of the interview, I wanted to get into talking more about your family, personal life and your identity. Could you tell us a bit about your family?

01:14:17.660 - 01:14:31.290

And just in general, whatever you want to share. Sure. I have a very small family, which is again, a contrast to the stereotype. Like Asians have big families.

01:14:31.290 - 01:14:43.140

Well, I'm sure they do. I'm just not part of that stereotype. I have one son. He's 26 now, so he's all grown up. I raised him as a single parent, which is again,

01:14:43.170 - 01:15:00.450

you know. Not, I guess, traditional. Like most Asian families. [sighs] So with that said, it's just me and my son. I grew up, you know, like I said, in a immigrant

01:15:00.450 - 01:15:15.950

family, and I don't have full sisters. I have step sisters. So. Which–which, you know, growing up, them not being my sisters fully, you know, we weren't very close.

01:15:17.040 - 01:15:32.890

So with that, I don't have a big family or, you know, I don't have a large family to celebrate holidays with, so I evolved to have friends as families, if that makes sense.

01:15:33.040 - 01:15:48.400

And so for my personal life, you know, with being a business owner and networking all the time, meeting a lot of friends, I have a lot of—I've learned the craft of reading people. And so I'm able to identify, you know, the people that I want around

01:15:48.400 - 01:16:02.330

me, if that makes sense. And it's important to know this at any stage of your life or one's life, because you don't want to be with people because you think you're lonely. Or you think you need people around you.

01:16:02.390 - 01:16:13.040

It should be just as intentional to know who you want around in your life. And some people, you know, they think, well, having a big family is a blessing. Yes, it can be a blessing.

01:16:13.040 - 01:16:27.470

But it can be a curse because, you know, sometimes big families can be a conflict in your personal growth. Right? Or they may just lock you in to a particular lifestyle that you—doesn't serve you.

01:16:27.470 - 01:16:38.540

So there's no right or wrong. It's just really understanding the intention behind all this. So my personal background is that I raised my son as a single parent. He's a fine young man.

01:16:38.540 - 01:16:52.520

I'm so proud of him. I, we spent the Mother's Day together and I told him, you know what, you're going to make a great husband because I taught you right. [laughs] And he's like, he rolls his eyes, but we're really close, you know, we're really close.

01:16:52.520 - 01:17:04.760

And I'm extre–I'm just very proud of him. I don't feel that it was really me. I do feel the invisible hand of God helped me to have a son like he is. And so it's just me and him.

01:17:04.760 - 01:17:14.870

And I have lots of close friends, and that's my life. And I have my business. Mhm. You've truly aged with grace because I was so shocked when you said 26-year-old son.

01:17:14.870 - 01:17:26.030

I was like, what? Aww, thank you. [laughs] What sort of principles and values did you instill in your son in their upbringing specifically?

01:17:28.130 - 01:17:42.470

Responsibility and accountability. You know, I—my—the reason my, another reason my family unit is so small is my father died when I was 15. So that right there already cut half of my family unit,

01:17:42.470 - 01:17:57.750

my dad's side, cut us off. Right? So, and my stepsister–and then with my stepsisters, so it just completely cut half of it off. And losing my dad when I was 15, I had to learn

01:17:57.990 - 01:18:09.720

even more quickly on survival. And being a single parent with my son, I had this sense of fear all the time. Like if I died early, prematurely or, you know,

01:18:09.720 - 01:18:21.670

you just can't control that. How will my son, you know, survive or live on? And my objective, and especially being a single parent,

01:18:21.670 - 01:18:36.810

has always been if life, you know, something happens and I can't be there, then you can't, you know, fall on your, you know, your rear and cry about it. So it wasn't about living in fear.

01:18:36.810 - 01:18:54.420

It's just knowing accountability, being responsible and just being prepared, if that makes sense. So now I see it in him, and I'm just very proud that even if I were to die early, I know he has, you know,

01:18:54.420 - 01:19:05.520

a good head on his shoulders. And that's what I like to instill into all young people. It's like you can't look to others. You can't depend on another person to fill your void.

01:19:05.520 - 01:19:19.540

You have to find your own answers. Yeah. And was it important for you to educate your son on your ethnic heritage? When he was—when you were raising him and when he was

01:19:19.540 - 01:19:33.250

growing up? Absolutely. My last name is Kwon. And, you know, I have limited information about my family heritage. However, just, there's–there's a whole explanation on the last names in

01:19:33.250 - 01:19:42.820

the–in the Korean history. You know, there's a Kwon—i-it was like tribal, right? The Kwon families, the Li families, and it's all very tribal. It goes back centuries.

01:19:42.820 - 01:19:59.050

Anyway, so there's a whole meaning behind the Kwon family. And so, you know, I did some homework, and I was able to pass that on and explain to my son, you know, what-what that is to him. You know, what Kwon means to him.

01:19:59.050 - 01:20:12.650

Now, of course, his dad is Li. Their last name is Li. And I explain, you know, where his dad's lineage came from and what it means to him. But you know, I also educate that,

01:20:12.650 - 01:20:25.870

that's just information. Like in marketing, everything's just data. There's no right or wrong unless you choose it to put a label around that. But when you get information, first review the information as if it's

01:20:25.870 - 01:20:41.120

just information. It's just data. It's just raw data. How you translate it is up to you. And with our heritage—my son had a chance to go to Korea in 2016, right after high school.

01:20:41.120 - 01:20:50.210

And he was able to learn even more, you know, even more about what I didn't know. In fact, I joined him for a couple of weeks. So we learned about Korea together, you know,

01:20:50.210 - 01:21:00.560

especially a—because we don't have, you know, relatives there to kind of keep communicating. So we went to Korea and we—we taught each other like, hey, this is what Koreans are doing or this is,

01:21:00.560 - 01:21:12.710

you know, so that was a lot of fun. Learning about our culture. And it's fun, like between us, we can go—we could be in public and speak broken Korean [laughs], if that makes sense.

01:21:12.710 - 01:21:24.920

That's fun. You know, we can have our own little private conversation with broken Korean, but that's our little joke between us. So, I'm glad that we have that–we have that. I'm glad we have that.

01:21:24.920 - 01:21:41.650

That, you know, we have that heritage to talk about and to celebrate. Yeah, I always, like, speak Vietlish in public and [VK: Yeah.] like I—it's not fluent, but it's good enough to like, I [VK: Yeah.] [indistinct] in the like private.

01:21:42.550 - 01:21:51.190

You can relate? We have a lot in common. Isn't that fun? Yeah, yeah, I know. It's, I know, like talking to you, I'm like, oh, wow. Me too, haha. Yeah. And the food too.

01:21:51.520 - 01:22:02.770

[CN: Mhm.] Like, you know, we eat out and eat Korean food, and I cook Korean. And, you know, my son always tells me, your Korean's always best, mom. I'm like, I taught you well, son.

01:22:02.770 - 01:22:13.640

[laughs] Sounds like you raised him right. Yeah. [laughs] And just to close, I had some questions in regards to how you

01:22:13.640 - 01:22:30.040

engage with your own identity. So, first off, how do you identify yourself ethnically? I now say that I, you know, of Korean descent. But, you know, I—okay, so I don't speak for all Asian women,

01:22:30.040 - 01:22:42.980

but I—I tell people though, I'm a global citizen, really. Because I don't feel Korean when I go to Korea. I visited Korea and I felt like a foreigner. They treated me like a foreigner.

01:22:43.130 - 01:22:54.230

And when in the States, I feel like a foreigner because I'm reminded that I'm a foreigner. So I just decided, well, I'm a global citizen, I like traveling. That's how I identify myself.

01:22:54.740 - 01:23:13.530

Mm. And then what do you feel most proud of? I'm proud of the fact that philosophically, I made it this far without destroying myself. Yeah. You know, life–life.

01:23:13.530 - 01:23:29.980

And, you know, we talk about, there's a whole business thing going, you know, there's a lot of different angles I could put it. But to answer you, you know, very general–generally, it's like, life can take you in many different way—directions.

01:23:30.370 - 01:23:48.640

It can. Or you can take different paths, and you think you're in control, but you're really not in some ways. So, what I'm really proud of is I came from a very rough childhood. And people don't know it, but as I

01:23:48.640 - 01:24:04.790

explained, like, I may look like I make my life look easy, but it came from hard work. And so I'm just grateful by the grace of God that I, I'm happy.

01:24:07.840 - 01:24:18.410

Yeah. I can tell from, like, this whole interview, like I was like, wow, you've just gone through so much. I did, but that's okay.

01:24:18.410 - 01:24:28.710

It just made me stronger. It's true. If it doesn't kill you, it'll make you stronger. And that's a true statement. Yes. Go, girl. [laughs] Thank you. Girl power.

01:24:30.600 - 01:24:45.950

When and where would you say you feel most at home? I'm at—actually around nature. Yeah. I-I have a dog. I walk him every day at the park. And that's my happy place.

01:24:47.450 - 01:25:04.580

That's very cute. And how would you say being a Korean informs or sets apart your graphic design work? I pay—I'm an active listener. I've learned to be an active listener, so I create

01:25:04.580 - 01:25:18.620

work that is truly tailored to the client or the brand. And I know in through the advent of AI technology, you know, ChatGPT, you know, all of that, you know, everything can be carbon copy, right?

01:25:18.620 - 01:25:33.710

With a sweet slight twist here and there. But, my work is, I can genuinely say my work is custom and that fits the brand. And I like it. I love the process.

01:25:35.150 - 01:25:52.080

And if your children–if your children were to watch this interview in the future, what's a message that you would want to give to them? That I'm proud of my son. And I'm glad that–I'm just

01:25:52.080 - 01:26:09.780

glad that he was able to accept our conversation, if that makes sense, that we're–we're synced in, and I'm just glad that he accepts my point of view. And that, I think as a parent, that's really important. You know, as a

01:26:09.780 - 01:26:23.550

parent, you want your kids to be able to genuinely. Like, adore you or love you back. Does that make sense? Not be forced, especially as an Asian, you know you don't want to scare them to obey you. You know,

01:26:23.550 - 01:26:40.120

I'm just glad that he respects me as a parent and as an adult. So if he's watching this, I'm like–I'm like, thank you, you know, son, for—and, you know, I can say a lot of things, but I, you know, I just saw him a couple of

01:26:40.120 - 01:26:49.570

days ago for Mother's Day. So we had a lot of fun. And I'm just glad that we can act as friends. And at the end, though, he remembers I'm his mom,

01:26:49.570 - 01:27:01.910

you know? Yeah. So I–I'm so glad he's in my life. Yeah. Yeah. That's so beautiful. You'll know what I'm talking about when you become a parent.

01:27:02.420 - 01:27:13.160

Oh, I have a long way ahead of me. Yeah, being a parent, it stretches you. It does. And see, no one told me that, right?

01:27:13.190 - 01:27:27.830

No one told me that being a parent is work. It's labor of love. As an adult, you can marry someone and you can divorce them. You could leave your company, you know. And I don't know why some people leave their kids.

01:27:28.010 - 01:27:43.930

I don't understand, that's not in my DNA, but they're the toughest job that you will deeply love. Mhm. And just to wrap up, is there anything that you would like to add that we have not

01:27:43.930 - 01:27:54.180

covered yet? I appreciate the—you and the interview questions. You really did your homework. You know, getting my background information.

01:27:54.180 - 01:28:05.370

So thank you. I know I can—I know I'm verbose, but thank you for listening. You're an active listener as well, I think—yeah. I really enjoyed our interview.

01:28:05.760 - 01:28:17.220

Yeah. Thank you. I actually, like, I was so excited to go into this interview because, like, they give us a little blurb about the people before we interview them. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is like right up my alley.

01:28:17.220 - 01:28:28.140

So I was like, very excited to go into this interview. I had a very good time as well, like hearing everything you had to say. So, it's a two way street there. Thank you. Thanks.

01:28:28.770 - 01:28:41.880

Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time to interview with the archive. We greatly appreciate you sharing your story. And then as I said in the process earlier, we'll get back to you in a couple of weeks with the final transcript for you to approve,

01:28:41.940 - 01:28:48.360

once it's all finished. Yeah. Thank you so much. Okay. Have a great rest of your day.

01:28:49.140 - 01:28:51.540

You too. Bye. Bye.