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Hi, my name is Joshua furman. I'm the curator of the Houston jewish history archive at Rice University today is March 31st 2021 I'm very excited to be with this esteemed group of very special people who have had an outsized impact on the Houston and Galveston's jewish

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communities To reflect together and have a conversation about their time at the University of Texas and Texas Hillel in the 1970s. And I'm gonna ask each of you to introduce yourselves. Starting with Rabbi Jimmy Kessler. Hi, good morning. I'm Rabbi, Jimmy Kessler. I'm a native houstonian,

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went to the old ST, sent a high school in Houston. Uh and then I went off to the University of texas in my day. It wasn't at anywhere, it was just the University of texas and it was in Austin. I uh the interesting theory is I

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may have been the first Jewish kid that went off from Texas to become a rabbi and then came back to Texas uh to to serve as a rabbi. I'm not 100% sure of that, but certainly I'll lay claim to the first reform rabbi. But I may

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have been the first, I ended up going to the University of texas because everybody went to the University of texas. That's where you were expected to go to find your spouse. And that was a verbal statement passed on amongst Jewish families in those days. My folks

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belong to Beth you sure in until I was about 12 years old. And then they switched to temple Emanuel where I would subsequently bar mitzvahed and and confirm and and as I say, and and then I went off to U. T. I was one of those

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midterm graduates that don't seem to exist very much anymore. I finished in january of 1964 and five days later I was sitting in a class of about 300 kids learning about something called DNA and RNA, which I had never heard of before. Uh I also at

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U. T. Joined a jewish fraternity, which was not 100% expected, but someone somewhat expected in my day, I joined to Delta phi uh which has subsequently been salty pie and no telling what's going on, but it no longer exists as a fraternity on campus. I will

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tell you that that for my first two years I never darkened the door of Hillel or anything jewish for that matter. I instead was just a good student and a good frat rat. Um The the interesting part of campus in those dates was that it was

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a essentially a party school, particularly for the guys who were going to texas A and M. In those days because A and M. Did not have female students and so on weekends there was a large influx of students, not not just jewish ones obviously who came

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to Austin for parties and of course fraternities had parties. So we always had a goodly number of those folks who who came and participated. Uh my involvement with Hillel began as a uh um, in in my sophomore year in college when my dad. Um, but otherwise

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that was what the the university was like. I think people were concerned about being drafted. That seemed to be another significant issue. There were not, there was not, I guess to say the number system yet that that did come about when I was an undergraduate, but

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it it wasn't there at first and your grades were the the the the issue and and the rest of the time it was partying. Uh that was the generation that gave rise to a friend who I've known since I was nine years old, kinky Friedman and

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his subsequent texas, jew boys singing group. Uh, and and it was just, you know the kind of um simplistic college life that was going on. There were those guys who wanted and and and girls obviously excuse me who wanted to go to medical school. There were

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there was that generation of immigrants grandchildren who were expected to get a degree so that there was a diploma in the offices of the businesses that had made significant incomes where the father and the grandfather had no opportunity to go to college. But their grandchild did.

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And that seemed to be the heart and and substance of uh of the business school in those states. And that pretty much was I think campus life for for me in the uh in the early to mid sixties. Great. Great thank you Rabbi caster, we're gonna

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hear now from uh nancy Nancy Prison Pikus, thank you for the introduction. Um uh as josh said, my name is Nancy present Pikus. Um I am almost a native houstonian. I would have been born here if my father had not been in the Naval Reserve but

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I got here at six weeks old. Um so I grew up here. Um My mother was born here. My father was actually born in Willis texas. So I have very very deep roots in this part of texas. Um I grew up at Congregation Emmanuel and um

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uh spent a lot of time in te ft the Temple Emanuel Federation of Temple Youth, the Temple Emanuel Federation of Temple Youth and also in toffee which was the state and regional and um that was very important to me. Um I am currently a retired jewish

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educator. Actually that's not true. I'm retired from the day school where I was the director of of jewish learning for 29 years, the shrinker school. Um but I'm not a retired jewish educator, I just don't go to work every day at the shrinker school. I'm still

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actively involved at the in teaching and in in in the jewish community as a whole. I've spent most of my professional life here as a jewish educator um at uh Congregation Beth Israel both in the religious school and at the Schlenker school. I've spent time at

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Congregation manual in their religious school. And also um way back when um uh in between I would say at the very early stages of my motherhood as well when I took off time from everyday employment. Um I actually worked in Galveston's helping to develop curriculum for

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the two schools together. They had a joint religious school at that point. Um So uh that's been my professional involvement in the synagogue in the life of of jewish Houston. Great nancy, thank you so much. Now let's hear from Rabbi David Rosen. Thank you josh and

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it's a real pleasure to be here with my wonderful friends and colleagues. I am a native Houstonian. I was born in Houston in 1951. I was born into congregation Beth you sure in. So yes I also uh was born and raised here, left the state for

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many years and then came back to texas. So jimmy you and I share that to some extent. Um I have very fond memories of growing up here in Houston. I was here until I was 16 which means I was just starting high school in those days.

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High school back then was just 10th, 11th and 12th grades. And I have very fond memories of growing up with and I remember my father carrying me on his shoulders around the sanctuary on Simchat Torah remember Hebrew school for all the years. Hillel High school which

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was in a middle school to high school program. And when I was just getting ready to go to bel air high school where all my friends were going, my father gang get us out of Houston and moved us to Dallas. And I took me months before

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I could actually speak to my father again. He dragged me to a new town where I knew nobody and he realized when I got there how unhappy I was. So he signed me up to be in a a C. A chapter in Dallas. He drove me

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to the first meeting, he walked into the meeting. He had already called the president of the A. C. A. Chapter which is of course no end of embarrassment, anything he could do to get me involved in something. Um rather than just anger at having been pulled

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out of Houston. But in Houston I had a wonderful second career if you will a second opportunity, that's where I met lee uh we were both in A. C. A. Henry Mancini A C. A. Which was a very prominent chapter at the time. It was sort

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of the it was a sister chapter to Cyrus Adler A. C. A. Here in Houston. And so we did a number of activities together where we would come from Dallas to Houston and they'd come from Houston to Dallas and I thrived in a C. A. It

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was a wonderful opportunity for me to learn how to come out of my shell be more of a social person and interact with people, develop some early leadership skills. Not much but some, you know and in a c. A. I started a newspaper, I started the,

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I forgot what it was called, the A C A B B G news or something like that. And it was just something I developed with Bernie Klein who was the regional director of the neighborhood in those days and he thought would be great, let's have a

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newspaper, talk about all the different chapters and everything. So I I love reading newspapers as a child. I used to play creating little newspapers at home on my typewriter. So I mean I love the idea of actually editing a newspaper, putting it together. And of course

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that set of skills went on to help me when I got to the University of texas. But at the in the high school level um I started getting this little inkling religious sensibility, I somehow became religious chairman of my A C. A chapter. Which meant that

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I was responsible every month for putting together some kind of a service at one of the synagogues or something before everybody went out on a date and had a good time. But it sort of alerted me to the possibility that there might be more to being

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jewish than just being proud that there was actually content and substance to it. And that would of course be more fully developed when I made the decision to go to university of texas, I'll close with that. There was no decision to go to the university of

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texas as jimmy said I was sent there. I have no recollection of even applying there. I think my dad and my mom took care of everything. There was no choice, there was no going up to campus to look it over. There was no plan B. C.

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D. In those days. Pretty much if you wanted to go to the university of texas and you were a resident of the state of texas and you had what I think a minimum of C. Grade or something. I don't know if you even needed that. I

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remember one day my dad said we're gonna start packing up now you're moving to Austin and that was it. I went to Austin um and got put right in the middle of the campus. My parents drove away, I can still remember to this day then driving

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away and me standing on the street just looking and waving and wondering what the heck am I going to do now, you know? So it's like a little city, it was like a city. It's huge. It's huge. It was huge then even larger now and I

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did not know what I was going to do where I was going to go and I started off in a fraternity, not because I wanted to be but I got pushed and it turned out to be a bad mix. I was not, I was not a

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party person. I really wasn't. Uh I really wasn't a fraternity type if you can say such a thing. And so that didn't last and I needed a place to hone my skills and to do something that would be more pertinent to me personally, which led into

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what followed, but that's pretty much how I got to where I got. Great, thank you Rabbi Rosen and now he's been very patient. Uh li lunch, please. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be with everyone. I unlike those who spoke before me. I am not

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a native Houstonian. Uh I grew up in Dallas. I'm actually the first generation Texan in my family because my parents uh moved to Texas in 1951 from Brooklyn New York because of a business opportunity for my father. My oldest sister actually was born in Brooklyn. Uh

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so I'm the first generation Texan in my uh immediate family. Uh We, I attended, my parents were members of the big conservative synagogue in Dallas, which is likely what drew me eventually to beth you Sharon. When I came to Houston, I was active in A. C.

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A. That's where David Rose and I met a few years ago And I had a very normative growing up experience like any Jewish family in the 1950s and 60's uh until there was a decision to be made about where to go to college. And like several

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have said there was no choice, no options, nothing. You're going to the University of texas. Uh My oldest sister had gone uh out of state and because we were also, my parents were not uh did not attend college. It was like a lot of things as

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you're raising your kids, there was a lot of uncertainty. My sister ended up going out of state and they weren't prepared to send their second child out of state. So Everything came together and I ended up at the University of Texas in the fall of 1970

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and had somewhat of a similar experience where they brought me, got me to the dorm I was gonna live in eventually for two years, waved goodbye and they were off. And quite frankly, it was challenging, challenging experience because University of Solar's the dorm I was living

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in was just in its second year virtually new. And the, to that point in the history of the university, the largest dorm on campus. And uh it was a challenging first few months, maybe first couple of years, but eventually I settled in. Great thanks to all

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of you for those introductions. I'm curious before we get to talking about you, T Hillel in those days. I'd love to hear as a, as a lecturer at a university. I'm biased, I guess I'd love to hear a story or two about a favorite professor or

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a class that you took, that really had an impact on you. That that changed the way you thought about the world or about yourself? Um who has a story about that that they'd like to tell. Go ahead. Rabbi Rosen. No question about it. One professor in

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particular definitely impacted me and moved me closer to what eventually would be my career. That was Professor Isaac Silver Slog, I'm sure jimmy remembers him well, Leeway may well too, I'm not sure nancy if you were if he was still teaching when you were there. Um

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and he would be a surprising choice if you were to meet him. He was an older gentleman, very dramatic in his manner. He always came to class with very dapper uh suit and tie. And I mean he was just so unlike any other professor at the

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university. But what struck me about Professor Silver Schlock was his course was called jewish contributions to Western civilization. And it was basically a survey course of jewish history. And it opened my eyes. I never read a book of jewish history. I thought I knew what being

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jewish was. I knew about all the holidays. But here was a professor who, on an academic level, on a scholarly level, referring to other texts and books, opened my world in terms of of the history, the grandeur, the highs, the lows, the majesty of jewish history

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and life and literature. It was quite a course and he was very didactic in the way he spoke. It was very you know, very proper and formal, but what grabbed me was that my gut, this man is brilliant in an area of study that I didn't

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know any brilliant people, you know what I mean? You have professors of science and Chemistry and and and culture, but here's a jewish guy who speaks with such authority and richness and it's simply, it overwhelmed me in the most positive way and encouraged me to actually

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read the books on the syllabus for the test. But also because I was learning about myself and that I think had a major impact on me going forward. I I actually had a very different kind of experience and the person I'm going to tell you about

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and this experience for me was actually very personal but it affected my my how I led my career. Um I I breezed through high school, I never studied, I never had anything that is and um my first english class, I was an english major and my

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first english class, the first paper I wrote I got a D. And I had never in my life seen something like that on a paper that I had preserved that I had produced and I went to the, I went to the professor, I remember his name,

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he actually was from Rice University, he was a postdoc from Rice and I talked to him about it and I said what is this, what you know, how has this happened? And he actually, he opened my mind to how I really should be thinking and what

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I can do and it made me very humble um it's probably the best thing that ever happened to me because I really really um besting academically at any rate that ever happened to me because I had to um I had to be humble, I had to

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learn that I could do this and I think that really affected me as I went forward as a teacher and as a learner too. Just that there's so much to learn in so many different ways to do it, in so many ways to show what you

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learned and that has always really been important to me in my um career as jewish educator. Um and later when we talk about it, I can talk about how I became that jewish educator. But okay um why don't we go back to Rabbi kessler now and

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jimmy tell us about how it was that you went from the Hebrew Union College as a newly ordained rabbi back to Austin and what you found when you, when you got back to campus as the new Hilo rabbi, I I went to rabbinical school as a

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lark it uh to just follow the kind of story that nancy just shared. I was the president of the fraternity and I was told that the new hilo rabbi was coming to visit. And so I put on my button down shirt, they had just come out.

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That was the thing to wear. And I went down into the living room and there was this guy sitting in shorts sneakers with no socks, a pull over a shirt, a goatee, dark sunglasses and you should pardon me, josh your cap. And I stuck my hand

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out and I said, hi, I'm jimmy kessler, I'm the president of toddle. And he stands up and he says, hi, I'm mickey sales, I'm the new Hillel Rabbi. Well, you could have knocked me over with a 10 ft pole. I mean, I was used to Rabbi

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mail, Oakland Rabbi cahn and Houston. These guys you rarely saw without their coat on. He turned out to be the advisor I was looking for. My dad had just died and one day he said to me, you you have the soul of a rabbi, not a

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physician, you ought to go to Rabbinical school. So I tried Rabbinical school as a lark because my roommates gigged me about it. And uh, the frightening and desirable thing was that it was interesting. It was stuff I had never studied before I had never heard about

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as David experienced with dr silver slog. At any rate, you get to be a senior and you figure what are you gonna do? Well, all my classmates seem to know they were looking to be assistant rabbi somewhere and I had no idea what to do now

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that I was getting this diploma and all of a sudden I noticed a list had been posted on the bulletin board by the National Hillel Foundation which in those days was been a breath and it listed the university of texas and I applied for the job

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thinking that number one, I didn't like cold weather or snow, so that would bring me home and number two I figured if I would fail that rabbi there there's bound to be somebody's daddy who owned a business. I could go to work for that. I'd gone

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to college or high school with and lo and behold, I got hired right away and my classmate who was from san Antonio is from san Antonio jean levi waited for months to hear. What I later learned was that no one in the country wanted to go

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to Austin. But me, the reason was as you asked, what was it like? The building was in terrible shape. It's not the current building obviously that that's relatively new as it were, but it was an older building, but, but built to be a hilo foundation, uh

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it was in not very good shape and the foundation was broke. It had a notice that within the next 10 days the bill for the utilities was not paid. They were going to turn off the utilities and there was a drawer full of unpaid bills and

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no money in the bank and an adding machine that did not work. And I thought this is a wonderful thing to encounter. Fortunately there were two delightful people camped down on campus, been in Austin, one was tom Friedman, a professor of ed psychic. Ut he was

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kinky Friedman's dad and he ran a camp for jewish kids at Go Hill Ranch. And the other was a man named Milton smith whose wife had been the international women's president and a very wealthy family furniture manufacturers. And I called Uncle Tom and I said, I

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don't know what to do and he said, I'll get back with you. And so he and Milton smith went to the bank. That Milton was the chairman of the board of and borrowed $30,000 putting it in the Hillel checking account so I could pay all the

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bills off by new adding machine and allow me to begin to try and do some kind of programming. Nobody came to Hillel for the first month. No one darkened the door, but I was a very lucky guy and, and I'm sitting in the presence of the

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two people who were my instant luck. David and lee were roommates. And uh, they both contacted me while I was still a student wanting to know what was I gonna do to change jewish life on campus. But fortunately they were not just people who stood on

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the outside but became involved and got active and um, I did what I thought I needed to do to go out and try and get people interested. Since I had been a fraternity guy. I went to the George fraternities and jewish sororities and fortunately seemed like

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one or two people from each of those groups got interested. Um I became very infamous or famous. However you would like to look at it for teaching bible courses. Uh They were easy a electives, you could take only three courses nine hours. I didn't get paid.

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Hillel didn't get paid. They ultimately shut those down just because the students had to pay building fees but the the the university just collected that money and put it away. But I shortly determined that the best way to get people in the building was also to

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make that Annecy a course. And so it rapidly grew from about 15 or 20 jewish kids to 100 each semester. And I taught two courses a semester. Clearly the majority were not jewish kids. But they heard that as the baptist minister said the Rabbi down the

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block is the easy a. If that's who you're looking for. So hello became for me uh my major project to try and restore to try and find money. I learned about snoring money early on if I came in a coat and tie students knew that I

00:28:11.480 - 00:28:31.460

was headed off to some other city. I was the only hell Rabbi in texas. And then a brit expected me to visit at least A. And M. And uh sort of at S. M. U. But not exactly the S. M. U. But in Dallas there would

00:28:31.460 - 00:28:55.390

say uh Hillel uh activity going on. And uh so I was expected to travel around and and see those things and um and and of course to to raise money to keep the doors open. But with time Hillel became, you know an interesting place to do

00:28:55.390 - 00:29:15.610

crazy things. I put in a pool table actually I got a pool table donated but I put in a pool table. Um, I think probably the one that I was most infamous for aside from the bible forces that Darrell Royal sent the college jocks too was

00:29:15.620 - 00:29:34.790

I told students I was coming to a texas football game on a saturday night and I bought a student ticket and I brought a little bottle of wine, a little pill bottle of wine. I brought some nutmeg and aluminum foil and three birthday Kansas and I

00:29:34.790 - 00:29:55.110

did have dolla in the stands and reported to national bred hybrid that 68,000, some odd 100 students attended my $100 service. No one ever said anything about that. I began to realize they probably never read the reports but I will tell you that. And then I'll

00:29:55.110 - 00:30:12.950

speak later about it. Hell out for me was in spite of the things that drove me a little nutsy hell out was just a wonderful experience of delight. And um and and clearly you allow me to sit this morning with three of the people that helped

00:30:12.960 - 00:30:29.760

make it that way. Sure thanks Rabbi Kessler I wanna turn things over to lee in a second to hear about his early impressions. But we also need to give people a sense of time. So just very very quickly jimmy. When did you come to? Ut as

00:30:29.760 - 00:30:55.160

the director? What year was it? I came in 1972 that summer I stayed for three years candidly I got burnt out trying to raise money. Uh The budget was $29,500. 9000 of which was my salary. And the other 21 is what been a bridge or the

00:30:55.160 - 00:31:15.630

other 20 I should say what was what Banana breath gave us and I had raised the rest and it it just was really frustrating because of the fact that that the programming of the possibility for programming grew federations had not yet been giving money to Hillel

00:31:15.630 - 00:31:31.770

and and that's what sent me on my way. Got it. Okay thank you. Alright, lee tell us when you came to U. T. What year it was And some of your first impressions and memories of jewish life on campus in Hillel. Okay. I arrived on campus

00:31:31.770 - 00:31:46.840

in September 1970 as a very lost kid. Uh as I said earlier, overwhelmed by the size of the campus and by the number of people and of course the first day I walked into a class with 6, 700 people, You know, when you're used to a

00:31:46.840 - 00:32:06.320

high school class of 30 25 to 30 students, uh It took me months to figure out what the heck I needed to do. Uh Eventually, sometime during my freshman year I wandered into l l uh I can't remember if mickey sills was still the director. Uh

00:32:06.330 - 00:32:26.560

I'm not sure exactly when the transition was, but certainly by the beginning of my sophomore year, there was no director and one of the uh faculty jewish faculty Stephen Ross who was a professor of history, became the de facto pillow director of faculty advisor, whatever the

00:32:26.560 - 00:32:46.380

case was. So, a lot of what happened in those first two years. Number one, it was very focused on what I'll just generally term religious events, Shabbat services, high Holiday Services, the kind of kind of broad spectrum of programming was on in Hill House today didn't

00:32:46.380 - 00:33:02.890

exist back then. And of course as jimmy has articulated, the building was as students, we probably didn't appreciate it at the time, but the building was pretty beat up, I think it was, had been built in the mid forties. And uh, but, you know, we we

00:33:02.890 - 00:33:23.470

made use of it and uh, you know, over the course of particularly those first couple of years, uh, the jewish students began to mobilize and do various things without this serious support of the hilo director that obviously occurred when jimmy arrived later. Uh and it was

00:33:23.470 - 00:33:39.430

a mixture of getting involved at least for me and some of the political activities on campus and some other things related to Israel activity. Okay, great thanks Rabbi Rosen. How about you? When when did you come to U. T. And what were some of your first

00:33:39.430 - 00:33:55.970

impressions? I came to U. T. in the fall of 1969 the year before Lee um it took me a while to make my way to the Hillel. It was only a block away from campus where it still is of course. So I had to pass it

00:33:56.030 - 00:34:20.840

almost every day for one reason or another. But it was not an inviting place. I went a few times. Um The rabbi was mickey sills who jimmy spoke about earlier. He had a very um um nonconformist approach to life to Judaism and it wasn't appealing to

00:34:20.840 - 00:34:39.340

me and so I didn't really have sustained involvement with the organization. Then the building was dingy and dark, the whole the whole thing there was just not appealing to me. I came from Beth you sure in which is a very dynamic large full and then in

00:34:39.340 - 00:35:02.060

high school for three years I got to share with Israel which is also a very large well planned bright you know congregation and to go to the hill there. Um It seemed very much like an afterthought on campus and even uh compared unfavorably with the other

00:35:02.070 - 00:35:18.850

christian centers which were all over campus which were very appealing and there seemed to be more joy in them. I didn't go to them, but I knew friends who would go to them and they spoke very enthusiastically about what they experienced. Hilla did not provide that

00:35:18.860 - 00:35:41.160

and it wasn't until jimmy came in my third year that I became very, very intensely drawn back to Hillel. The building was still no better than it had been, but jimmy brought a a light to the building. He brought an energy and I remember the first

00:35:41.160 - 00:36:01.110

time I met jimmy, I was like dumbstruck. I had never met or seen a rabbi like jimmy kessler. Okay, my rabbi had been, My rabbi had been William May live here at Beth E. Shuren until I was 16 and he was a God like figure, you

00:36:01.110 - 00:36:16.050

know, he walked around in robes, it seems to me and I would see him on Shabbat morning and he would have a day's growth of beard and it was like white on his face and he had this white hair, this huge Yamaka, not only to call

00:36:16.050 - 00:36:31.240

these things, maybe you can give me the name for it like a crown and a big white robe and a sprawling tallest. This is a man, you stayed away from, this is my idea of a rabbi and when I lived in Dallas for three years, the

00:36:31.240 - 00:36:49.330

rabbis were in transition, then there was a flux going on a chair with Israel so jimmy comes in and the first thing out of his mouth was anybody want pizza? Rabbis eat pizza. And uh and jimmy was of course a major influence in my life and

00:36:49.330 - 00:37:05.840

in my career, but that takes us to the next step. The only thing I would say was is because of what I found at Ut when I came those first two years that I felt I needed to do something to help create some kind of jewish

00:37:05.840 - 00:37:23.470

community. For me personally, I didn't I didn't I couldn't find it, I could put my arms around it and that's how I ended up starting the jewish student newspaper, frankly this this garnished kid who knew nobody, nobody knew him had the chutzpah to start the jewish

00:37:23.470 - 00:37:40.230

newspaper on campus, but that's it reflected away my state of desperation that I felt something needed to pull us all together so we could find each other. Sure, and we'll hear about that in a few minutes. Go ahead nancy. Well um I was at U. T.

00:37:40.240 - 00:37:57.030

That my time at UT was Jimmy's time at U. T. Um I graduated in three years. I had a summer in there as well. But uh I'm gonna start with my impressions of the building. I think I must have walked into a different building. Either that

00:37:57.040 - 00:38:17.210

or it was after Jimmy had gotten his $30,000 and paid the bills and done something but the building never put me off, I always felt comfortable in it from the moment that I walked in and and I hit the hill out pretty quickly. Um You know,

00:38:17.210 - 00:38:34.160

I I went pretty much at the very beginning of my time on campus and part of that I lived in Kinsolving, which was the women's dorm, that was a texas, you know. Ut owned dorm. And uh I was incensed to find out that I could not

00:38:34.160 - 00:38:50.930

have Kiddush wine um and light candles and to find out that I had to dress up for sunday lunch because everybody was going to be at church, but nobody was going to dress up for friday night dinner for me and um so I don't even know

00:38:50.930 - 00:39:08.250

if you knew about this jimmy going on, but I uh together with my friends on the floor um who most of them were not jewish, but a couple of them were um we petitioned our R. A. To be able to have some kid ish wine and

00:39:08.250 - 00:39:25.460

to light shabbat candles and I got it and it was of course the wine had to stay in her refrigerator, which I didn't care. Um That was fine with me. Um But that I so Hilo was a place where I could be jewish and that it

00:39:25.460 - 00:39:43.340

was hard for me to do that at Kinsolving. I actually did have a mrs a that I stuck up on my door somehow or another um And uh didn't it, So it was just a different feel. Um The building for me was always comfortable. It was

00:39:43.340 - 00:40:00.860

sort of a haven, I remember still the chairs, the mid century modern chairs. I didn't know them as mid century modern then, but they were comfortable for me and even though they were probably too big for me, um they I just, you know, remember being walking

00:40:00.860 - 00:40:21.270

in and and never feeling like it was a show place, but never feeling like it wasn't a place that welcomed me. So great, thank you so much. Let's let's talk now, Rabbi Rosen and leave more about the texas, jewish voice. The newspaper that you created, you

00:40:21.270 - 00:40:41.890

started to say a little bit about the impetus for it being a lack of connectedness to other jewish students on campus talk a little bit more about that. And then the the actual right the nuts and bolts of starting a newspaper. The newspaper was started in

00:40:41.900 - 00:41:04.690

my second year and there was no rabbi to Hillel, so there was no organizational center for jewish life at the time. Um the fraternities and the rest of the jewish community were separate from each other. The fraternities were a dominant force socially and there wasn't, there

00:41:04.690 - 00:41:24.030

wasn't a whole lot going on jewish li even the Hillel was very quiet and so how did how did an independent person like me? Um meet anybody? I wasn't in the pillow system. My my I've always been a very straight shooter and very, uh, unconventional in

00:41:24.030 - 00:41:43.310

that sense. Personal, uh, wasn't a drinker. I mean, it was very hard, very difficult. Um, so I started the newspaper. Um, really on a whim. Just an idea maybe using what I knew about making newspapers. Maybe I could pull something together that would sort of bring

00:41:43.310 - 00:42:02.600

everyone together. And I don't know how I got money for the first issue. But I do recall getting in my car and driving to Dallas to talk to the Federation director. I think his name was Jack Kravitz. Jimmy. Am I correct in that Jackrabbits? Um, was

00:42:02.600 - 00:42:17.190

very receptive. He was the Ceo executive director of the Federation. He's very receptive and I didn't need much money. I mean, I needed, You know, maybe $1,000. I mean, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't getting paid for it. All I needed was somebody to pay the

00:42:17.190 - 00:42:34.120

printer bill. And then then he suggested I go down to Houston and talked to the director there whose name was Al Goldstein, if I'm remembering correctly, does that sound right? So these, these two men, um, both gave me what I needed to put out the first

00:42:34.130 - 00:42:48.800

issue or two just to see it if it was well received or not. And basically the first issue, if you look at it now makes me kind of wince a little bit because trying to bring everyone together. We will, we will know what I'm going to

00:42:48.800 - 00:43:11.190

say, but half the issue with photographs, big pictures of the, of the sorority incoming sorority girls, new new members of the, of the chapters. Okay, no fraternity pictures just sorority girls and why, why did I do that? Because I figured everybody would read it. I mean

00:43:11.200 - 00:43:26.600

the girls would read it to see themselves and the boys would read it to see the girls and and then around it, I had little stories about things happening on campus, which I just picked up from, who knows where, and it was very fluffy, very fluffy

00:43:26.960 - 00:43:41.280

and the first issue sold out, which means everybody took all the free copies. There are probably a lot of, a lot of the girls who sent copies home, you know, to share with their families, but I didn't know what else to put in a jewish paper.

00:43:41.280 - 00:43:57.430

I didn't really have a lot of role models in that regard and I wanted something that the kids would read and, and so it continued along for a while, but what ultimately changed it was when I got a call from national U. J. A. Which I

00:43:57.430 - 00:44:17.180

had only heard of telling me that they were putting together a trip to Israel for jewish newspaper, campus editors. I didn't know there were any other jewish campus newspapers, frankly, we had no internet then And how would I know, but it turned out there about 25

00:44:17.180 - 00:44:33.980

or 30 campuses around the country that had a Jewish student newspapers and they invited me to come to Israel um free of charge for 10 days. And um first I couldn't decide whether I should go or not. I had a date with my girlfriend for the

00:44:33.980 - 00:44:53.240

cotton ball and I remember there was a professor Nate Lowe shock if I got that right, jimmy Nate Lowe shock was the campus faculty advisor had nothing to do officially with the newspaper. It was still very independent. I remember him calling me up and asking me

00:44:53.250 - 00:45:11.840

what was I hesitating? You J. A. I called him and asked why was this, was this kid stalling about going to uh to Israel And when he found out the reason he said to me, David, I will move heaven and earth to shut down that paper

00:45:11.840 - 00:45:27.310

and put you out of business. If you turn this trip down to Israel, you're going well, faculty advisor telling me anything scared the bejesus out of me. So I ended up going to Israel and it changed my life when I came back. You looked at the

00:45:27.310 - 00:45:43.070

issues of the university, jewish voice after I went to Israel, it was a much more serious paper. No more sorority girl pictures. It was all really talk, listen was really substantive and that's when I needed writers, that's when I needed people to work with me and

00:45:43.070 - 00:45:59.550

help me because there was so much I didn't know and lee was, you know, my friend from high school and he was also involved with me in jewish life in campus. We were very close have been close since high school and he became my right hand

00:45:59.550 - 00:46:15.170

and it was really a, you know, he, he helped me so much and we together I think got it through, we found other campus kids who wanted to work and take pictures and um and then raising money was always an issue. Um the other federations in

00:46:15.170 - 00:46:33.880

texas were not interested in helping. Their attitude was that the university of texas is in Austin and it was the responsibility of the Austin federation to take care of anything happening in Austin and I would stress to them that it's their kids that are in Austin,

00:46:33.880 - 00:46:53.890

it's Houston kids san Antonio kids love kids but nobody was interested except Dallas and in Houston and they reached a point finally in my, I guess my senior year where they just couldn't, they couldn't get the justification or support to continue the paper and I became

00:46:53.890 - 00:47:13.270

so frustrated with it like jimmy, I just became so frustrated. All I was doing was raising money and um you know, I was a student, I still had to study and do courses and everything else, but um the paper I think um it served an important

00:47:13.270 - 00:47:30.730

function and it got better and better thankfully because of people like lee and and some really wonderful other kids who my roommates, we, we all, we all pitched in and everybody helped. But you know doing newspapers in those days it's not like it is today you

00:47:30.730 - 00:47:48.020

do it on a computer, you lay out the pages, we had to actually get the typeset and galleries, cut it out and get some paste and paste down the columns and get the pictures and it was very, very labor intensive. But that's what it was. Um

00:47:48.030 - 00:48:09.170

but it was an experience which of course obviously had had a tremendous impact on me personally and my career going forward. And uh the Hillel was jimmy when jimmy came, he oh he offered us um cloakroom at the Hillel. Remember that jimmy he offered offered us

00:48:09.170 - 00:48:24.610

the cloak room literally a cloak room that had a you know door where you got your code and got that and gave out the tap um the receipt. And it was just a place to put a little little tiny table and a typewriter. And It became

00:48:24.610 - 00:48:41.750

part of Hillel at that point for the last year or two. And I think it made a difference. And but it was no, it was, it was part of my experience that I will always treasure greatly. Do you want to talk about your your work on

00:48:41.750 - 00:49:05.050

the paper and maybe yeah, you know interesting and josh, you know this uh in my uh first months of the pandemic, my at home projects. I discovered many issues boxed up in my garage that are now the property of the eastern jewish archives. And you know,

00:49:05.060 - 00:49:24.310

you look back at this stuff and you realize that if once you got past the sorority pictures, uh, which obviously I can't remember, but David was the editor. So, uh, there's a real sense of, of history, of jewish life on campus and jewish life around the

00:49:24.310 - 00:49:44.440

world that was impacting campus. Uh, and of course at the time and it was in, some people still consider it to be the jewish telegraphic agency was the major kind of jewish news source that fed uh, information to the jewish community in the newspaper is not

00:49:44.440 - 00:50:03.300

necessarily student newspapers around the country. So you can see several articles that were clipped from the, uh, from Jt A files, but also things that David said that were written by uh, by students about all kinds of issues. And if you track the history of jewish

00:50:03.300 - 00:50:20.040

life during those few years of the paper was being published, it will also track uh, what was going on on campus regarding all the issues that I know of a few minutes to, to talk about. It's worth noting because it may otherwise not come up. And

00:50:20.040 - 00:50:36.770

it should be part of this conversation is when David and I lived together his senior year, my junior year, uh, David's father, I think from his business. But David could clarify. David was using an old IBM Selectric typewriter with those, I don't know what they're exactly

00:50:36.770 - 00:50:53.420

called. Those little font balls that you would, you could take out of the typewriter and change the font. And that's what if I recall at least when I was more active with it. We were writing the stories before they went through all the process that David

00:50:53.430 - 00:51:07.610

described. And you know, you didn't have any, it was like a word processor. You got to put those, that white stuff. Uh, if you made a mistake, otherwise you have to start the article all over. So it was a, in addition to the jewish content and

00:51:07.610 - 00:51:26.850

this need that it met. It was a learning process certainly for me in terms of writing and just the mechanics. Uh, when you got past using that typewriter, which you were pounding on the keys with the keys in the paper josh. And I had one thing,

00:51:26.860 - 00:51:48.070

just a little, a little called seal to this. But I graduated in 1973 In 1996 I came back to Houston as Rabbi Beth You sure in. And I started going to Austin to visit our breath assure in college students. Okay? Just to take them out to

00:51:48.070 - 00:52:04.450

dinner and then smooth with them. And our first program dinner was at the Hilo and it was the same hill though where I had gone to school, the building was still the old building. And I remember going into the library just to look through the building

00:52:04.460 - 00:52:19.130

and jimmy knows that I'm going to say. and I saw something in the one of the shelves way down at the end of the library and I go and I looked down there All the back issues of the university, Jewish voice were all there all in

00:52:19.130 - 00:52:38.300

nice boxes and a few of them were loose. They've been sitting there for 20 years, over 2023, 24 years. And so I was able to reclaim some of the, some of the copies because I had, you know, gone my way and didn't have any with me.

00:52:38.310 - 00:52:59.870

But so the paper kind of hung around, although I think there was an attempt to restart it, but I'm not positive. Yeah, I think maybe Jeff Lefkowitz may have revived it briefly. Um I want to, I want to turn now to the topic of the campus

00:52:59.870 - 00:53:23.210

environment in the 1970s and you think about everything that was going on at the time. Um Nixon, the Watergate scandal, the Vietnam War, um the Yankee, Poor War, the Munich olympics. Just what, what what a tumultuous time in american history and and jewish history that was,

00:53:23.220 - 00:53:40.790

and I would love to hear about, you know, your perspective on all that as a, as a college student um what what was happening on campus in terms of in terms of activism engagement, in terms of anti Israel pushback? And how did you, how did you

00:53:40.790 - 00:53:58.770

respond? What, what what were you active in at that time? And anybody who wants to, who wants to start, can, can feel free? Well, I would say the university of texas, you know, I always, I learned years ago and I think it's still the case that

00:53:58.780 - 00:54:17.260

things in our country, in terms of politics and culture usually first happened on the East coast and they go to the west Coast, eventually they find their way to texas. So in some ways, I think texas u T was a little slow on the uptake, but

00:54:17.270 - 00:54:43.480

certainly by the time I arrived on campus, there was a huge amount of uh, activity uh, related to the politics around Vietnam because the war was still going on. Uh, certainly civil rights issues were being engaged with in terms of activity. Uh, there wasn't quite frankly,

00:54:43.480 - 00:55:02.530

a lot of what I'll call pro Israel jewish issue activity, at least in the public domain, because most of it was happening inside the roles of Hillel and not on the campus. Uh, that slowly began to change. I think the first, in terms of my four

00:55:02.530 - 00:55:23.570

years there, the first major uh, uproar was when the Israeli athletes were killed at the olympics in, in the fall of 72. And those of us that just as general students were involved in some of the anti Vietnam war stuff, it triggered something in us that

00:55:23.570 - 00:55:44.320

caused us to want to, you know, begin to make statements, however, those statements were made. And of course that was followed almost a year later by the young people war and uh and the soviet jury movement of course had started in the early to mid sixties

00:55:45.030 - 00:56:01.770

and also found its way to campus. We were very small numbers, the jewish students, you know, I think in those years there were 45 to 50,000 students, undergraduate students and I don't know how many jewish students were there were there at the time, you know, two

00:56:01.770 - 00:56:23.620

or 3000, maybe four, I'm not sure, but the number of us that were actively engaged was was pretty small yet, I feel like through because of the environment around protests and and lots of shouting. Uh we were able to make statements about support for Israel and

00:56:23.630 - 00:56:43.790

uh soviet jury and some of the other issues and there were speakers that came to campus along the way, either sponsored by some students with or without hello support and they kind of stimulated a lot of activity. And to me, what was I think again, part

00:56:43.790 - 00:57:04.150

of the learning experience outside of the classroom is that many of the leaders of the anti war group and the civil rights movement were jewish students, most of them had little engagement with jewish student life and many of them were anti Israel. So you have this,

00:57:04.160 - 00:57:23.620

this class going on on a pretty frequent basis between the jewish students involved in the anti war movement and those of us involved in the pro Israel movement and uh even though we shared views on certain issues, there were other issues, we completely were desperate and

00:57:23.620 - 00:57:43.600

it's interesting because today, when I talked to him, students on campuses, they tell me the same thing their issues today that students are dealing with, ah that are put them in class with jewish students who are focused on pro Israel stuff and it's a struggle to

00:57:43.600 - 00:58:00.260

figure out how to how to how to deal with it all. And that was definitely the case back in the years I was on campus, I want to look at that from the other point of view. Um I got to campus in 1972 and I was

00:58:00.260 - 00:58:24.200

very naive, naive, 18 year old and um I remember, and I told you about, you know, my stand in um you know, for getting my my kid ish wine, but being where I was, where I lived, Kinsolving. Um I I had the other, I got to

00:58:24.200 - 00:58:43.210

see a lot of the other side of the reaction after the election in 1972. I remember people on our floor going down the halls chanting four more years, four more years. I was just horrified and it was scary to me almost. Um and so I I

00:58:43.210 - 00:59:05.340

was never politically inclined in those years and I was certainly never politically active, but um my sense of of who I was as a jew, I actually think probably got solidified because I was where I lived, I was the other so, and of course Hillel always

00:59:05.340 - 00:59:21.680

supported me in not feeling like the other when I felt like the other, I just go and see jimmy, I just go into the building and and I had the advantage of being able to do that my entire time that I lived in Austin Great Rabbi

00:59:21.680 - 00:59:40.090

Kessler. How about can you give us the um director's perspective on on on those years? I mean, how do you, how do you, you know counsel students who are um engaging with with with these issues and I'd love to hear from you too jimmy about interfaith

00:59:40.090 - 01:00:04.230

relations on campus, your relationships with other campus faith leaders. I uh it was, it was a difficult time for me as well because I've gone to Rabbinical school with 36 people in my class, 34 of whom had burned their craft cards and I was, I was

01:00:04.230 - 01:00:22.360

a goody two shoes, I didn't burn my traffic card and when they picketed the federal courthouse against the war and they were all arrested, the president of the Rabbinical school refused to bail them out. And so one of the professors grabbed me to go with him

01:00:22.360 - 01:00:42.500

to the jail where he bailed them out and I could identify. So I, my my place was trying to figure out where did I fit into this kind of scene. Uh for the six day war for example, Hillel had a bomb threat, my life was threatened,

01:00:42.510 - 01:01:05.570

Let's kill that pillow rabbi. Um, and uh, that, that left an intriguing kind of experience to be dealt with. Its when I learned that there are all kinds of ways of getting protection for uh, for jews who want to gather together. Um, on the side of

01:01:05.570 - 01:01:31.240

the interfaith group, the university decided that it was going to create a concentration in uh, religion, but it did not include Christianity. And so I was approached by several members of the ministerial alliance to be the designated, go see the president of the school. And I

01:01:31.240 - 01:01:53.950

did uh, and said, you know, it would look terrible for texas and I'm a Ut grad to have a concentration and religion and not include Christianity. So they changed their, their tune. I will tell you that that apropo of of that as uh, as well, was

01:01:53.950 - 01:02:16.550

that the uh, the mrs O'hair, some of the people who will hear this will remember she was the the atheist in America Mrs O'hair on the johnny Carson show announced that she was going to open a an atheist bible chair at the University of texas and

01:02:16.560 - 01:02:37.550

the president of the school called in the middle of the following week and said, Rabbi, you're gonna be our designated contact with mrs O'hare, figuring he said that she treat a rabbi with a little more respect than she would treat any minister, those kind of things.

01:02:37.550 - 01:02:57.510

Just sort of came my way And for somebody who had no training in seminary about it, let alone being a zoology and chemistry major as an undergrad and knew how to deal with it. I think the other, which just again was there's a wonderful quote that

01:02:57.520 - 01:03:14.980

that I'm sure David and I studied in the nancy and lee may have as well from the Talmud that says God smiles on women, Children and fools and I always thought I was in the third category because when the building had its bomb threat, I decided

01:03:14.980 - 01:03:29.450

to find out who the Arab student advisor was and he and I met at a truck stop today, that truck stops in the middle of Austin, but in those days it was out at the end of the city and we met one night and said this

01:03:29.450 - 01:03:47.400

is crazy, it's just not really the right thing to do. So he had a meeting with Arab students and said, you will not do this, find out you are threatening the jewish kids or he'll help, I'll call the I. N. S. And have you deported? I

01:03:47.410 - 01:04:07.230

got the Israeli students together and I said, look, we are the people who believe in saying good common sense, let's use our say whole not our big mouths and let's leave that all alone that open for me, all three of those kind of crazy things open

01:04:07.230 - 01:04:28.920

for me, a lot of areas of conversation, but you know, the other reality was that each of these things had its own particular uh, issue, for instance, the war in Vietnam, a part that was tied to that was not only picketing and protesting the war, but

01:04:28.920 - 01:04:46.820

there were students who showed up in Hillel who did not want to go to Vietnam and the question was, you know, what, what could they do about that? Um, and all of those for me, became very personal issues for each youngster. It was sort of like,

01:04:46.820 - 01:05:05.150

I guess it was the jewish mother in me. What could I do to solve their their problem? The nice part I will tell you is that I never felt like Hillel had to organize the thing, I only felt that Hillel needed to be there as the

01:05:05.150 - 01:05:26.630

support, the place to meet the, the, the underpinning that could, could help people accomplish what they were setting out to accomplish. And as I say, three folks that you have here with me are the ones who really kind of found answers to what worked for the

01:05:26.630 - 01:05:45.940

kids. As I say, I look as a reflected back on this conversation when you mentioned having it. That nancy suggestion, it struck me that wasn't so much that Hillel had to do it, as Hillel had to be the support mechanism for students who wanted to do

01:05:45.940 - 01:06:06.510

these things. But Hillel was the impetus for those students to do some of the things we did our programming. The things, I mean I have a horrible memory for detail, but I remember clearly some of the speakers, we had some of the things we did in

01:06:06.510 - 01:06:20.930

the building that had nothing to do with Hillel or anything religious. I was there every monday night for folk dancing, you know, or or whatever night it was and I was there for Israeli dancing and I, you know, and I was there for for Shabbat services.

01:06:20.930 - 01:06:38.050

But also as I became more involved in this, I became more aware of the things we could do, the programming that we did. And I learned that Hillel that if you can, you always supply food, it brings people in, I, that worked for me, my entire

01:06:38.050 - 01:07:01.410

professional life, it still does um uh but it being at Hillel and knowing that we could do things allowed us to really put together some great stuff. My senior year, we did the uh jewish Identity Week between Yom hashoah and and every night we had a

01:07:01.410 - 01:07:22.210

different kind of program, we had a movie, we had speakers, we had all sorts of things that we empowered us, the people that took on different parts of it. We were able to do things because we had the backing of Hillel great. Were there other particularly

01:07:22.210 - 01:07:45.160

memorable programs or events that you could remember either attending or ones that you organized? Don't ask me, I'm really terrible and remember, but I remember that one particularly, I remember making falafel for Yamaha at smooth, you know, it just um, but hey, it just, I like

01:07:45.160 - 01:08:03.690

being there so josh. I would say one of the seminal events at least during my time was when Rabbi Meir Kahane, who I had no idea who he was at the time, came to campus. I'm not sure exactly which of the four years, but he was

01:08:03.690 - 01:08:23.950

actually invited. If I recall jimmy can correct me by a couple of students that had some connection to him. Uh and of course, I later learned in the weeks before he actually showed up who he was, he came and and he was very controversial. Even then

01:08:23.960 - 01:08:44.110

this is before he did things that really made him controversial and he spoke on campus, not at hello at the student union building. There were easily 5, 600 people there. Uh some of the jewish students that were active on campus and active and Hilo was standing

01:08:44.110 - 01:09:04.540

in front of the states to protect him if you will. And a lot of the jewish, a lot of jewish students that were involved in uh the anti war activities and so forth, who were not supported visual were in the audience and screaming at him. And

01:09:04.550 - 01:09:23.880

I'll never forget this, this exchange between Rabbi Kahane and these jewish students uh when they they said and I don't know what prompted that they were jewish and proud to be jewish, but they were against what was going on in Israel and so forth and so

01:09:23.880 - 01:09:41.040

on and his response to them is of course you're jewish, but you have no idea what that, what it means. Uh, I think it, it at least for me it changed the way I thought about what it means to be jewish. And of course these are

01:09:41.040 - 01:10:00.520

the early years after the six day war when jewish pride was really sparked and uh, just the issues around, what does it mean to be a proud jew? I think he really focused on it. And uh, it led me to read a bunch of his books

01:10:00.530 - 01:10:21.170

and even though I long ago kind of pushed him aside and of course he was assassinated in the early mid nineties, but because of his really right wing uh far right wing views after he made Aliyah, you know, I long ago kind of pushed him out

01:10:21.170 - 01:10:40.800

of my uh way of thinking, but at the time he, he liked, it was the most uh uh, unbelievable speaker I've ever heard now, of course, you know, college years, you're still naive, you're still young, you don't know anything about the world. So maybe that had

01:10:40.800 - 01:10:57.860

a lot to do with the influence. But I remember actually walking down the drag with you one day talking about and how it had influenced you. So that was already, because I didn't hear and I wasn't here at ut Austin then, but I remember the conversation

01:10:57.860 - 01:11:13.480

that you and I had about it, let's just talk a little bit as we, as we start to wind down, but I want to give everyone a forum to talk about anti Semitism on campus because all of you have gone on to become jewish communal professionals

01:11:13.490 - 01:11:27.720

and one of the, you know, hot topics that just won't seem to go away in the last couple of decades is anti Semitism on campus. So in your time at Ut in the 19 seventies, was their anti Semitism on campus? Was it something that you perceived

01:11:27.730 - 01:11:48.370

as as a problem at that time or is this in your view, a more recent phenomenon? I think there was anti Semitism on campus when we were there um I remember being in a class, for example, when some student made some comment about jews the first

01:11:48.370 - 01:12:07.020

time I'd ever heard such a thing, but the real test for anti Semitism in my life campus was I had an anti Semitic professor and I I didn't know how to deal with, I've never had a professor like that and it had to do with the

01:12:07.020 - 01:12:29.820

newspaper, believe it or not, the university jewish voice, he was the dean of the School of Journalism, he was an older male and we had to do a project in the School of communication and my area was journalism at the time. Um and I remember presenting

01:12:29.820 - 01:12:46.580

the idea of the of the university of jewish newspaper because I needed, I thought that'd be a good project that I could also get credit for it since I was I was doing it already. Um He worked against me the whole time, he finally he finally

01:12:46.580 - 01:13:03.460

told me he wasn't gonna accept any of what I've done for any credit whatsoever. Um he said the paper did not meet the standards of journalism, it did not meet this and did not meet that poor, this poor that um and I had enough awareness of

01:13:03.460 - 01:13:23.520

what a newspaper should look like and how it should be edited and how it should be laid out and what what made it a responsible, professional looking newspaper to know that certainly it was it was it was possible and easy to criticize parts of it, but

01:13:23.520 - 01:13:41.160

he was so dismissive of it and of me and the way he spoke to me and it's the dean of the school, I really couldn't challenge him, but in my heart, the only explanation I could come up with is this man is anti Semitic. I mean

01:13:41.170 - 01:14:01.770

he was giving uh he was approving projects that were far less substantial and far less merit to them by any uh any objective criterion. And as I dealt with him, I I just became aware that here and there throughout campus there was that that kind of

01:14:02.470 - 01:14:22.220

that kind of, I don't know, white old fashioned, you know, attitude that just kind of leaked through periodically did, I see it expressed in a way that the A. D. L. Would count these things as evidence of anti Semitism. I I don't know that I would

01:14:22.220 - 01:14:39.080

I'm not sure we could we could point to that maybe my my colleagues and classmates could but it didn't even mark me, it didn't even mark on me. Yeah I would say a lot of it at least for me was manifested as anti Israel uh behavior

01:14:39.080 - 01:14:58.140

and uh things that were said. Uh not too dissimilar to some what is still happening today but kind of the out now anti Semitism which I honestly had never experienced as a kid even though I grew up in a largely non jewish neighborhood in Dallas and

01:14:58.140 - 01:15:16.940

the schools I went to, I was one of a handful of jewish kids. I really never on campus experience the kind of anti Semitism David is describing. Uh but it was mostly related to a lot of the anti Israel stuff which got pretty vicious After the

01:15:16.950 - 01:15:36.960

killing of the Israeli athletes and definitely when the Yankee Boar War broke out in October of 73 and for me I felt that it was more ignorance than anything. Um I had a roommate who whose parents had never really interacted with a jewish person and um

01:15:36.970 - 01:15:52.920

roommate and I actually got along really well and we were very respectful of each other and and of each other's religions but um it's just more than anything. It was ignorance and you know I did my thing uh, with trying to be an educator about it.

01:15:52.930 - 01:16:11.110

So I think what was one of the things that was interesting is, you could, and of course, you, all of us look back on these days, you could, in those four years I could begin to see the splintering of the traditional jewish black alliance that was

01:16:11.110 - 01:16:27.300

kind of the foundation or at least at the core of the civil rights movement in the sixties. Uh, and by the early seventies you could already see it splintering. It was mostly over kind of the additional growth of the civil rights movement, over the anti war

01:16:27.300 - 01:16:45.210

movement. And a lot of articles and books that were being uh, were being published. And uh, you know, it was obviously alarming because the history of jews and blacks working together during the civil rights movement, of course, you know, it was pretty well known, mine was

01:16:45.210 - 01:17:02.430

from a different perspective. I didn't experience it as an undergrad. I was just, I really don't think I was aware of it and that, that wasn't the time that it was happening when I was the Hillel director. I didn't experience it directly. I'd hear about it

01:17:02.430 - 01:17:24.750

from students. On the other hand, my intent was to try and find a way of being in contact with the non jewish faculty and particularly the clergy, so that there was a conversation going on that that seemed, by the way in my generation of rabbinic students,

01:17:24.760 - 01:17:45.570

uh to be the the the pro the uh, I guess the process that was recommended for dealing. So, as I mentioned that I had met the Arab student advisor, I ended up taking three courses with him on Islam, he was a muslim, and um but it

01:17:45.570 - 01:18:06.250

allowed me to hear what his complaints were, and then by the same token he heard mine, the other side was also with regard to the christian clergy on campus. Um and and you learn about that allowed me to be kind of a middle person. For instance,

01:18:06.250 - 01:18:29.210

I didn't realize that the mormons who came to campus my third year, my last year uh, and built a foundation actually catty corner from Hillel, uh the other the christian churches did not want to recognize them as being christians, let alone as being legitimate. And even

01:18:29.210 - 01:18:47.320

when the ministers for the Director's wife had an emergency surgery, and I said something about, wouldn't it be nice if we sent some flowers? The comment was that we don't do things like that. And it was because there were mormons, I found out. So it, my

01:18:47.330 - 01:19:04.130

my perspective as the Hillel Director was listening to students who felt like they were experiencing the kind of things that David didn't happen to mention that to me, but that in the issue that that there were students who thought those kind of things were happening question

01:19:04.130 - 01:19:26.610

was how do you respond to it? What could approach to dealing with it? Uh But directly that was not something that is the Hello Director I experienced. Although as like laughingly said that the other campus ministers who were teaching bible courses were very envious of the

01:19:26.610 - 01:19:49.530

fact that Hello was getting 200 students a semester Uh to take Bible. Whereas they might get a total of 25 or 30 if they were lucky and obviously most of the students were not Jewish. Yeah we're coming now to to the end of the discussion and

01:19:49.530 - 01:20:10.840

I want to give each of you an opportunity to reflect on the career path you took when you left Austin. Um And to you know to tell us about what you did and and to reflect a little bit also on on how you think your time

01:20:10.850 - 01:20:30.580

at U. T. Shaped the jewish communal professional that you became. Starting with lee well I mean I'm gonna make it very short. Which is if it weren't for jimmy kessler, I would not have pursued what I did uh In my probably the middle of my college

01:20:30.580 - 01:20:51.580

years I started working part time for B. B. Y. O. Uh Having no honestly no idea what I was gonna do. I started off as a business major. I hated it. I ended up moving into government political science and loved it. My parents fully expected me

01:20:52.270 - 01:21:09.530

to do go into some kind of business either with my father in the small business or something else. And when I made this decision to, I started thinking about working as jewish community professional, which I didn't know, I didn't know at the time existed, uh jimmy

01:21:09.530 - 01:21:29.020

was my coach and and uh eventually convinced me that that was the path I should embark on and not only should I embark on uh at the time, the preferred degree for a jewish community professional was social work. Uh he guided me in the direction of

01:21:29.020 - 01:21:51.730

a program that had just gotten started a few years before I graduated at Hebrew Union College. And of course a big hurdle was my parents who had this huge expectation that I was gonna go into business and jimmy was my advocate with my parents And honestly

01:21:51.730 - 01:22:07.690

the rest is history. I went to work for the royal for a few years because of uh an obligation I had because of a scholarship they provided. And eventually I came back to Houston in 1978 and work for another few years and then landed at the

01:22:07.690 - 01:22:31.330

Federation in 1987 and none of would have happened without you. That's great. Now let's hear from nancy. Well, um I'm gonna go back a little bit further and saying that the reason I felt so comfortable stepping into Hillel was because I had a really active jewish

01:22:31.330 - 01:22:48.740

life as a high school student through the reform movement and um reform camps. Um that was very important to me and made me see that I loved being jewish. That that was really important. I always knew I wanted to be a teacher and I um I

01:22:48.740 - 01:23:05.860

just knew that was happening and I don't think I ever realized that being a jewish teacher a teacher of Judaism was something that was uh that could earn me a career. Um And I don't remember specifically but somehow another jimmy with somebody from H. U. C.

01:23:05.860 - 01:23:20.420

Was there. Or you talk to me about it, you showed me that there was a program in jewish education that started with a year in Israel. That was just beyond belief and I was so excited about that. Um So by the time I mean I remember

01:23:20.420 - 01:23:38.800

when I was accepted and um into the program I applied to it at the end of my senior year which was my third year in um at at U. T. And um I I went to uh the rehearsed School of Education at H. S. H. U.

01:23:38.800 - 01:23:59.420

C. In Los Angeles and um that was it, that was my career choice and I certainly but my time at Hillel gave me the opportunity and one of the things I remember doing was writing my application um talking about what they they asked me some big

01:23:59.420 - 01:24:22.240

questions about how it would affect the community. One of the things I did was write about um community education and being involved in um uh cross movement uh activities as well. And that's something that has been important throughout my career as well, not just in the

01:24:22.240 - 01:24:38.990

reform movement because now I my affiliate personally in the conservative movement, but that being able to draw from all parts of the jewish world has been really important in my life. And I think that started at Hilo because that's what we did. So, um but there's

01:24:38.990 - 01:24:55.480

no question in my mind that likely I don't think I'd be where I was if it weren't for jimmy. Great. So Rabbi Rosen, tell us about about your path after you left Austin. How did you, did you know already that you wanted to become a rabbi

01:24:55.480 - 01:25:17.660

while you were still a student? No, no, I went to the university of texas. Really, my story parallels lease my father had a business, uh women's wear manufacturing company in Dallas. It's very successful and and the expectation was the partners that the sun's two oldest sons

01:25:17.660 - 01:25:34.510

would take over the business. And so the other partner's son was already in the business and my dad was just waiting for me and and I just accepted that it was a business, it was a good business, why not go into that. And um therefore, he

01:25:34.510 - 01:25:47.160

said you can major in anything you want at the university says, I don't care because you're going to come work for me. So I decided to major in something that would be fun. I would enjoy it be good. And so I majored in communications and with

01:25:47.160 - 01:26:07.710

a concentration in journalism, which in those days my campus states made print journalism because television news was not really considered journalism, it was considered television. So it was, it was a very positive experience as it turned out, interestingly, journalism was a wonderful asset to me as

01:26:07.710 - 01:26:26.610

a rabbi because it trained me on how to meet deadlines, trained me on how to structure my writing so that I always followed a flow that made whatever I wrote make sense. And it was clear to everybody to understand what I was writing about. So those

01:26:26.610 - 01:26:43.710

of those skills came to me because of my training in journalism. But it wasn't really until jimmy wasn't my end of my junior year or early part of my senior year. I don't remember I was involved in Hillel and obviously the jewish newspaper. So clearly I

01:26:43.710 - 01:26:56.270

had a passion for jewish life as well. But the idea of being a rabbi, no, one day jimmy calls me into his office and he says, what are you gonna do when you graduate? I said I'm gonna go work for my dad, he says that what

01:26:56.270 - 01:27:12.790

you want to do. I said, well that's what it is. He said, I think you should consider rabbinical school and I couldn't have been more floored in my life to be confronted that way. Uh and he had to be the catalog for the Hebrew Union College

01:27:12.790 - 01:27:31.260

Rabbinical school and you know, it's like this thick and they had every course that they taught there for the whole 455 year curriculum and I looked at the topics and titles, I couldn't even understand the class descriptions they were, I I thought that it was enough

01:27:31.260 - 01:27:45.140

to know all the holidays which I did and I knew all the key figures in jewish history, which I did and I could read hebrew and I could delve in real fast. So I thought that was about it. And then he shows me this whole massive

01:27:45.150 - 01:28:04.490

five year postgraduate program and uh I remember thinking years I wanted to get married, I had a girlfriend, I was serious with, we ended up getting married and he sent me off on this five year, you know, journey. But it was jimmy who convinced me, convinced

01:28:04.490 - 01:28:23.920

my parents and really gave me my life and it really enabled me to, deep in my passion for Judaism, being jewish, being a professional jew and for that, I will always be grateful to jimmy. Uh and he's been, he's been with me ever since as my

01:28:23.920 - 01:28:43.970

mentor and my teacher and my beloved friend and colleague. And it was the greatest thing I took from the University of texas was that that little nudge that let me in that direction. Um and I'll just, I'll just post scripted by saying on a funny note

01:28:43.980 - 01:28:57.420

that when I went to h you see for my interview. um and I came back that night jimmy called me and he asked me how did it go and I said it went well. I said have you heard anything? He said yeah yeah yeah you're in.

01:28:57.430 - 01:29:12.560

I said really that fast and he said well they're waiting on the psychiatric evaluation but otherwise you're in. So I said you mean if I don't get in it's because I failed the psychiatric evaluation, there was just like the pause on the other end of the

01:29:12.570 - 01:29:33.380

phone, he says well anyway thank God I passed the psychiatric evaluation which they required medical students in those days and and made a career of it. And that's what I really will always be grateful to jimmy for Hillel for and it really was the kept stone

01:29:33.380 - 01:29:49.310

to a wonderful four years at the University of texas, that's great. And Rabbi Rosen, you've you've gone back to your roots now is a rabbi and marriages and and you're you're a newspaper columnist voice. I am I am writing a column for the herald voice which

01:29:49.310 - 01:30:12.990

is really nice. But um right I've been I've been in congregations in new york and in providence Rhode island. And uh when the when the opportunity came, Rabbi Segal Rabbi Jack Siegel announced his retirement. Um I still have a lot of family here in Houston and

01:30:14.020 - 01:30:30.610

all my family wrote and said you gotta you gotta apply, you've got to apply. And I really was very hesitant, honestly, not because I had any questions about beth per se it was just a wonderful, always has been a wonderful congregation, a leading congregation in the

01:30:30.610 - 01:30:48.250

conservative movement. I didn't know first if I was up to the job, frankly, I was coming from a 600 family congregation to a 22 100 family congregation. As I learned later, there's no way you can actually be prepared to go into a large congregation like that,

01:30:48.260 - 01:31:05.410

there's no stepping stone to it. Everybody comes from a smaller congregation. So it was that, first of all, second of all, um I was a graduate of Hebrew Union College and he sure was a conservative synagogues. I thought they would be just dismissed me right away.

01:31:05.880 - 01:31:21.610

It's not being up to their standard and and then I was afraid what it would do to my family, frankly, to have that kind of a responsibility to to such a large congregation and being in smaller congregations, you can spend a lot more time with your

01:31:21.610 - 01:31:42.400

kids. I had just starting a family. And so um it was a decision made with my wife's love and support and encouragement and the congregation has always been very supportive and enabling me to have what I needed to continue um living a life above and beyond

01:31:42.400 - 01:32:00.980

what I do for the show and now in retirement, that continue to be very good to me and I have a very warm relationship with my with my successor. So it's been a wonderful career. And it all started with a conversation across the desk with the

01:32:00.980 - 01:32:23.450

rabbi way long ago. Great. So jimmy the floor is yours. I know that your your life and and career path took some interesting twists and turns after you. T but you you get the last word, tell us about your life after after you begin by saying

01:32:23.450 - 01:32:43.880

to you that these three folks uh now at my age of 75, validate my career as rabbi. And and obviously as a dear friend, but particularly as a rabbi, I am, I never was convinced. I was very good at this. So after three years of hell

01:32:43.880 - 01:33:02.890

out and and and trying to raise money and so on. My uncle suggested I should go to optometrist school because he had a practice that none of his kids were interested in. I lasted three days because I didn't realize how much Math was involved in that

01:33:02.890 - 01:33:30.090

and I was terrible at math. And uh fortunately there was a job open uh and and which led me ultimately to Galveston's for a five year period. And then uh from Galveston's, I dropped out for seven years thinking that I was gonna make us rich selling

01:33:30.090 - 01:33:50.410

insurance. And I didn't, but I realized after the first year that I missed the pulpit and I missed the rabbi. And so I went to victoria texas for uh six years on a monthly basis and did services for them while we were living in Austin. And,

01:33:50.420 - 01:34:11.050

and that was a lot of fun. And then Galveston's came open again and and called me and said, how would you like to come back to Galveston's an I uh, and I did and spend another 30 plus years. So that in total I've been around here

01:34:11.050 - 01:34:31.220

now, I'm into my 38th year, if I get four years credit for retirement emeritus, I wanted to say that my, my motivation to all of this was because I had this crazy Hillel rabbi who didn't look like any other rabbi ever met and and mickey sills

01:34:31.220 - 01:34:53.700

wasn't quite as as contrary as he later became. But but it was enough to get me started. And then I was lucky enough to encounter people like nancy and David and lee over the years, not just in in Hillel, but in, in Galveston's and in the

01:34:53.700 - 01:35:14.350

other places that I was, that reminded me that ultimately being a rabbi was somehow or another trying to uh, keep her to provide jews within a way of being involved with their religious tradition. And whether that was teaching some kiddo how to put on to fill

01:35:14.350 - 01:35:33.340

in or it was coming up with some kind of program that that would work and all of that is predicated, I will tell you on two things. One of them was that tom Friedman and his wife men ran a jewish camp in texas when there was

01:35:33.340 - 01:35:57.410

no other jewish camps in texas. Although young Judaea was beginning to be in existence at the time. And uh, but the method behind their camp was that every kid was important and that every kids needs, you needed to try and meet as a counselor. Then the

01:35:57.410 - 01:36:16.620

next part was hell out. And and Hillel taught me a lot of things, taught me how to snore money, taught me how to budget, taught me how to be in control of a building because it was me that made repairs when we couldn't afford somebody else

01:36:16.620 - 01:36:33.510

to do them. And and it introduced me to people who came of their own volition to be, to find something in Judaism that would grab their attention and I put those two together and I look back on it, I realize, you know, that's kind of shaped

01:36:33.510 - 01:36:53.600

me as a human being as to whatever I've become and I've been able to achieve, which I, as I've said to you I think is that smile of God on the fools is that I've been lucky to be able to be there as a, there's a

01:36:53.600 - 01:37:17.140

mid rush that talks about the word go rain, G Ml Roesch Wagner mm and go rain. If you add up the, its numerical equivalent, it's common tree is 249 and the suggestion of the Darshan who wrote that is that they're the standard tradition of 248 positive,

01:37:17.150 - 01:37:38.890

let's vote, This is the 249th positive mitzvah, which is to help people achieve what they're seeking to achieve. And that always grabbed me as a way of functioning as a rabbi. And uh and as I say, you know, Hillel and and my camping experience were the

01:37:38.950 - 01:37:57.550

the ones that that shape them also. I should tell you I was a charter member of Shapiro a C A. I wrote myself a note that said, you need to put this in there somehow or another. You snuck it in just under the wire. I wanna

01:37:57.550 - 01:38:12.480

thank each one of you for being a part of this conversation. It was so fascinating and such a special opportunity for us to be able to gather together. It's been it's been a difficult year for so many people living through this pandemic. But one of the

01:38:12.480 - 01:38:29.640

silver linings, I think has been the opportunity to gather together and to do these interviews for the archive and to reminisce. And this was a was a really special one. And the credit for it really goes to nancy who first gave me the the idea and

01:38:29.640 - 01:38:46.080

the suggestion and has been a wonderful volunteer um for the archive in so many ways, as as all of you have been been so supportive of of this work from the very beginning. And so I I thank you for that. We we've had a really special

01:38:46.080 - 01:38:55.400

conversation today and I'm looking forward to having people be be able to watch this and and learn from it for years to come. So thank you all very, very much.