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Today is March 8th, 2024, my name is Karen Siu, and I'm here today interviewing Tram Nguyen on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice University. So, let's start off, can you tell us what your

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full name is and when were you born? My name is Tram Nguyen, and I was born in Saigon, Vietnam. Can you—Can you tell us what year you were born?

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Oh, 1965. Thank you. Let me move to some questions about your family. So, do you have any siblings? And if so, how many siblings do you have?

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So, my family is a big family. I have one older sister, one younger sister, and four younger brothers. So, total is seven of us.

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That–that is a big family [laughs]. [TN: It's big. [laughs]] So, how was it for you growing up in Vietnam? Can you describe your childhood and family life?

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Yeah, so I–I spent 21 years in Vietnam. Since I were born up to when I turned 21. The life in Vietnam is very—what I call—we consider as poor family. My–my parents, both of my

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parents worked really hard to provide what I call, like, financial and, you know—all the financial and physical for all of us seven children is very demanding. Have three meals a day and going to school, seven of us,

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is the top priority for them. My mom is the teacher. And my dad at this s-time, he was in military, US Air Force.

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And he played a role in accountant, took care of payroll for his military unit. I can see how when I grow up, we don't have, you know, the luxury or what I call a normal life, like every children in

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Vietnam, what I call, like, middle or upper level. We barely have three meals a day. So every single time that my mom or my dad come home with, you know, empty basket from Cross Royal (?)

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supermarket. That's the time that dinner or lunch table—you can tell the parent actually don't have, what I call it, protein in their meal, because they save that for the seven children.

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And with the seven children, seven of us, is actually the older one will sacrifice for the younger one. So it's–it's a tough situation to grow up in Vietnam that we don't have a lot.

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In return, we have actually come up with many ideas or innovation. You know, to be survive and to be happy, seven of us always get together. We always play games. And we come up with a game that using your own

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imagination. We learn how to dance. You know, the older ones show the younger one how to dance. And then we tell stories. And we—you know, we enjoy—I think that's the best memory in

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my life, is we come up with so many things that we can entertain each others. You know, not like children in America. They have, you know, laptop, computer, they can go to a movie. I—the first time that I actually go to a movie is when I come to

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USA. So this is–this is something that I think when you come here, people always say, "Don't take for granted." That's exactly how you apply in those situations when you don't have many things.

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Whatever you have at that moment is, you treat it as like treasure, right? I remember when my grandmother from USA sent us a gift, once a year. What she actually sent it home is a packet with clothes,

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candy, shoes, backpacks. Everything that she saved that she work and make money from USA, she sent it home. That package is actually, for us, is like treasure every year.

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I remember this, you know, all the raisins in the boxes—the little box. We are not allowed to eat, one person, one–one box. So, my mom will open that box and actually divide it up. So, if the raisin in the box, say thirty of them,

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so seven of us, we each have four. So, this is how–how poor [laughs] that we are at that time. And I remember, meat is something that what I consider luxury for any meals

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during the day, right? We don't have meat until the day that we receive the gift from grandmother. So, the protein that we, you know, consume daily is very limited.

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And for me is, a-at that moment when you was young, this is not important. You–you don't know what else to ask for. You just know that this is breakfast, lunch and dinner.

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And if you don't have one of that, then you skip and go to the next d—you know, the next meal. The only thing that I am very proud of, o-of my siblings, we get together and we hang out together very close. We're very focused in school.

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Because we know one day, this is actually the key for us to get out of poor and poverty. Parent always reminding us that's is important. So, for us at that moment, we–we don't have so many

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things to–to play with. So most of the stuff we do, we focus on the–the schoolwork. And at the time, for me, I remember seven of us, we do so well that, you know—at the end of the year,

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s-school year, we do so well that we all get what I call certificate for considered a straight-A student. Or the best student of the–the whole school, like, elementary or middle school or high school.

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Every single year like that, we cannot wait for that moment to happen. The reason because your name being called, right? To get up to the stage and receive the certificate. And this is the thing that we celebrate, and this is a big deal for seven of us.

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And I remember we all did so well that the school, elementary, middle or high school, have the label to call us, you know, saying "the Nguyen family". So, every time we show up and they say, "There you go." They will all take the

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diploma and certificate from the school, from all other classes. This is one thing, Karen, that I feel like the best memories when I was young. Yeah, those are some great memories.

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[TN: Yes.] Especially given how, you know, difficult it could be growing up in–in poverty, but it sounds like you and your family really made the most of it. Yeah. So, you had mentioned that your

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parents really valued education. Your whole family really valued education. I want to ask if there were other values that your parents emphasized in your upbringing.

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Another value that we always—and we keep that up to today—is the tradition—I don't know, Asian people, we respect all

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elderly, right? The respect is actually coming from within your family first. If you respect your parents, your grandparents. And then when you go to work, you respect your boss,

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you respect people who you work with. That's always stayed with us because I think this is something that naturally coming from Asian family. You can see that the way how we say hi and bye to other people,

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we always show the respect like this [bows]. You bow like that. It's actually, this is a symbolism for me. It's coming from Asian culture. You learn when you're actually born, and this is how they raise you.

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And that tradition is carried out throughout the time I'm coming in here. When I was 21, and I get married, I have two children. And all seven of us is actually married. We all have children. It's become a bigger family now.

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But that tradition carry throughout more than, I think, 38 years when we are here in USA. We look at, you know, traditional culture is this a key and is this important

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for who you are, where you come from. And doesn't matter later on, you become doctor or lawyer, or you the owner of the, you know, company or CEO, CFO. Never forget where you come from.

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This is the route. And–and for me, it was tough when I come to USA 38 years ago, because I always wish I was born in the USA. I wish I can speak like American people.

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I wish, like, I look like somebody out there. Tall, blonde hair, you know. Speak really well, can communicate, can socialize. At that moment, whatever my parents taught me,

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I wish everything flip because it's become a barrier. You have to deal with so many things, and you always feel like people treat you differently because of how you look. People treat you differently because how you talk,

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right? And you just feel like you want to hide. You want to hide your identity. A-and for me, it's not because I'm not so proud of myself. I just–I just feel like so much challenge.

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So much challenge that I have to face with. And–and how can I change that at that moment, Karen? I have nobody to talk to. Communication become another what I call, like,

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barrier for me. I came to USA learning from ABC, right? Language is actually not a barrier for us. So, you try to isolate yourself to the community, to people who you work with, people who is your friends because you

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lo—you don't look like them and you cannot share. You cannot share your story, you cannot share your feeling. And you become isolated and you just–you just don't know how to deal with it, right? If you have somebody to talk to, y-you

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have to talk and speak out in English to get the support and understanding from others. So, this is something that I feel like, it's the big-biggest challenge.

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When I actually come to USA and deal with—carry on the traditional culture, at the same time facing with something that completely opposite. Thank you for that response.

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I'm going to—I would like to go back a little bit, and ask about—so, you had mentioned having this one tradition at the end of every year, right? But I want to ask if there are other holidays like Tết,

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how [TN: Yeah.] you celebrate with your family and if there were any other traditions you want to–you want to mention. Yeah. So, the tradition that we always do together, we—New Year. Tết is actually a big deal, right?

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And I actually still have my red envelope right here. I–I celebrate New Year with my parents' traditional way, right? So, the first three days of New Year, we dress new

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clothes. We have something that we have to remember. The age [laughs]. The age and the people are not compatible for that year, not allowed to walk in the parent house. So, we all talk between each other before we start going and visit and

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greeting Happy New Year to my parents. That tradition is actually become not within my family. I actually share that tradition with my company who I work for. And Sequent Energy Management is the company I work

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for. This is my year 20. I've been there so long, and it's become my second family, too. I volunteer, I think maybe ten years ago, to become founder and also chairwoman for

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AAPI. Since I accept the position, I want to do my best and show to everybody Tết is actually something need to celebrate not only with community of Asian people, but for American, especially in Houston.

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This city is so diverse. Sharing that is actually become a big deal to me and to my family, as well as my coworker. I was—I-I remember is, one year when I host

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Chinese New Year or Lunar New Year for my company. We have people we call customer from international, coming from South Korea, people from Japan. They feel so welcome. And they feel like celebrating New Year

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away from home is something that you–you get together and you make it happen, right? And you feel you–you are home. Even if you're not at home. And–and I think this is a value—that value carry through

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generation from my grandparents to my parents to me, and now to my children. I will retain that tradition, you know, until—I think until the one day, it won't exist anymore.

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But right now, I feel like everybody not within my family, outside my family, this tradition is actually, is a big deal. And people actually learn, what does Lunar New Year means? What kind of food do we eat?

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Why do we have lion dance? What is actually meaning behind of each festival activities that we carry in the New Year day? Second tradition that we always do.

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We do family reunion. Different than in Vietnam. In USA, we're all over the place. In Vietnam, you grow up, you get married, you stay in the same house, right? The house get bigger and bigger with many members.

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In USA, that tradition cannot carry. The reason because I don't think this is how we grow up. I don't think that's healthy either. So, and plus with the, you know, education, you

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get out, you get a job, you move. So, family reunion is the key to get together. And we all stayed in for—luckily, seven of us, we're not in different states.

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We all in Texas. Three of my brothers in Dallas. My sisters and one of my brother in Houston, my parents in Houston. So the reunion bring all of us together. We always sit, you know, up 'til midnight.

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And we talk about the young age, the game that we made. You know, the time that when we were poor, that we have nothing to eat and we don't have TV to watch movie. So, we actually do storytelling. And we share that, you know, I think that moment for us will never go

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away. So, family reunion, all of this is coming back, and we enjoy that moment. So, beside that is family reunion is important for my parents and also important for seven of us.

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Okay. So, I would like to—so, take me back to your early educational experiences. So, that is elementary school and middle school. What schools did you attend?

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W-Were there any teachers and experiences during your early education that inspired you in your career? Yeah. So, I went to elementary and middle school and also high school in the district

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that outside of Saigon. So that school called Ang Lat (?), right? I love that school because—you know, people in the city and people outside the city have different lifestyles.

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People outside of the city more closer to family. Friendship for me at that time, like family. It's not just like I get to know Karen, or I get to know Angela, and that just happened in school.

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People from outside the city, their lifestyle is more like when they get to know you, they get to know your family. They get to know your parents, your sister or brother. So my friends is actually friends with everybody in my family.

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So that's is how outside the city, tradition and culture a little bit different. I get so close to everybody in my school, not just my classmates, the whole school. And the school not big either.

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It's maybe 300 chi-like, children together. One of the my favorite teacher is my French. It's called language teacher is—at that time, I–I don't learn English, but at the moment, I did not know that I'm

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coming to USA. So, I learned French. I–I know for some reason I love language. I feel like tis is something fantastic. How can we communicate with somebody else in different language and they understand?

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We don't look like them, we don't have anything in common, but we can communicate through language. So, I love that class so much. And I remember if my teacher show up a little late,

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I get really—the anxiety increased because she's not there. I don't want her to, like, get sick or absent that day. I just—I count down every single minute just to see her. And I do really well. I think one thing I always remember,

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when you love something and you're passionate about something, you will never feel tired. And you will try your best to make it happen. And this is when I was young.

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This is actually for me, learning that language is actually the key for me at that moment. Many subjects I do well, but for some reason the language teachers attract me and pull me in more because I see the

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importance of that communication. Other than that, I love the class that I attend for 12 years in Vietnam. The day that I left Vietnam, I think for family,

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I know that for a longest time, I will be back and visit them. But for that, I–I do remember seven days before I come here, I cried every single day. The reason because, I don't know when is the day I come

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back, right, and see my school again. Is my–my all my classmates still there? Is my teacher still there or I will never see them again? So, this is the moment in my life that I will never forget,

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that is walking out and left Vietnam and left everything behind. Can you describe what it was like living during the Vietnam War? How did it impact you, your family,

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friends? Your neighborhood? When communist—okay, so it's—my life is divided in two different phases. So, I born in 1965, right? From the day I born to 1975, that's ten years of my

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life, I don't think financially is the problem. Family survive, what I call the average family. We have everything that we need to survive. So, when 1975 is coming, when communists

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take over Vietnam, so many things is so, what I call limited. My dad actually have to go to a concentration camp because he worked for US government. He has to go to the camp.

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My mom is the only, what I call, financial resource, taking care of seven of us. It's become very, what I call it, more difficult when you have one parent take care seven children, and they are younger-aged.

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So, if I'm ten years old at that time, the youngest person is maybe newborn baby. So this is how far seven of us, right? I have to be, you know, when I was ten years old,

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but I'm acting a role as like 15-years-old sister or daughter at home. My mom doesn't have money to hire a maid to help with, you know, housing, the housework, so she can go teach.

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I remember daytime teaching, nighttime she do sewing clothes to make extra money. And then depend on my grandmother, who left Vietnam in 1970-75, send money home yearly.

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That's is another resource from outside to help my parents. You know, bringing all of us survive day–day in and day out. I know it's tougher for me and my sister, who, you know, graduated high

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school and ready to go to college. If your family, one of your parents or both of your parents working for US government, the application to go to college almost will be eliminated.

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Because you belong to the old government side of it, right? So, it doesn't matter how good you do in school, you might not–you might not survive and you might not enter into college. And in addition to that, it would be tough for all of us

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because we apply to leave Vietnam, to the program called ODP. The reason because my dad is working for US Air Force. He legally can apply for that program. So he can take seven of us, you know, to

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USA. The process takes very long. So, during the time that I finished high school, when I'm 18. From the time I'm turned 18 to 21, those three years, for me,

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I cannot actually go into any school at that moment if I violate any policy that might hold me back, because I applied to leave the country. If you think about that, it just put you into a situation,

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teenagers grow up but don't know where your career is heading to. So my mom sent me to what I call the school, teaching me how to do embroidery. So I learned how to embroider, and then do that in

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addition to, you know, whatever I can do to help my mom make extra money. Because the other five children is much younger than me. They cannot do anything at that moment.

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So, I embroider pillow dresses, curtains. Everything I can do, I do from early morning to late at night, seven days a week. Up to the day I left Vietnam.

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It's very challenging because you see your classmate, everybody graduate and go to college and move on, right? People get married, dating. I was not allowed to date anybody.

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Because if I have boyfriend, girlfriend, then that's what make the situation more difficult because the process that we apply to get visa to leave. So, we-we're in the–the four wall of the room.

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You cannot have friends. You cannot go to school. You legally, you cannot actually go to work. So much stuff you do is like, you do to survive

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every day until the day you leave, right? So, it's–it's for me, I think it's just that three years is very tough. At that moment, for girls grow up in Vietnam—traditionally, Vietnamese

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female, a woman, you don't need to–to go to college. When you finish high school, it's time to get married and have children. All you do after you get married, having children, take care of your family, right?

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So education is not important. Not my family only. Almost every single family in Vietnam, that's tradition. Women at that moment treat low, and they don't treat women

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high education, you don't need to. I-I don't understand why, but that tradition is actually carry for a longest time that I been learned from history and also learned from my grandparents and my parents, too.

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This is–this is something that when I come here to USA, that's a big change. That's a big change because I look at female different, yet they treat female and male as I think like equivalent. If you have the knowledge, you want to go to school,

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you have condition to go to school, go to school. And finish and get your college degree. That's the big change when I come here. Something that I think open new window for me that

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I feel like I would not have that opportunity if I am in Vietnam. Can you tell me what year you left Vietnam and how–how did you leave? Okay, so we left Vietnam in

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1986. The—my dad applied, you know, through the ODP program because he in the US Air Force. So, the process take almost like 11 years.

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So, from 1975 to 1986, this is when the paper get approved. We have the ticket to fly to Thailand. And from Thailand, we go to Philippines and stay there for six months.

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The government, USA government, pay for what I call training program at the camp. And we stay at Philippine, I think, camp for six months. And then after that, we come to USA. So January 9th, 1986, is the

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day I left my country. And July 1986, I come to Texas. Since then, I stay here, and it's been quite long that we decided not to leave Texas

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and always stay here. I think because so many Vietnamese people, and community grow bigger and bigger. I think Vietnamese are the biggest community in Houston now. This make you feel like you are away from home,

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but you are home, the reason because the diversity in Houston. Did your whole family immigrate at the same time? Yes. So, when my dad applied, it's, my dad, my mom and seven of us. So we all come at the same time.

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Nine of us is actually here. The reason why we come to Texas because my grandmother, the person who sponsor us, she's from Texas. So, she left in 1975, and she–she traveled many places,

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but she landed Texas. Houston, Texas. And this is why the paperwork say, where do you want to go? If the sponsor in Texas, you come to Texas. If I don't have my grandmother in Texas, and if somebody from California sponsor us,

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we might go in California. But at that moment, because my grandmother here, she reside in Texas. That's why we all coming in here. So, moving to the US, to Texas, what were

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some challenges that you faced with your—adjusting to your new life? Like, for example, did you experience any discrimination coming to the US? Oh, this is–this is really—for me, I don't

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know how I make it today, Karen. When we came here in July 1986, none of us actually can speak English, right? That's the first, I think the–the biggest challenge that you

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cannot talk with anybody. Any community—the community service at that time for Vietnamese or Asian community is not strong right now. You–you barely can find anybody helping you.

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First, communication, we can't speak. We can't talk. Second, we have no money, right? Third, we–w-we don't have money, so we don't have transportation.

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You have to learn everything, you start your life from zero. I remember each of us is actually have two outfits when we come here. So, the first thing that my dad did, he put his name on one of the Vietnamese, what I

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call monthly newspaper. He put his name there, and he told them where he at. He need help. So, the monthly newspaper came out.

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People who joined Air Force with my father that come to Texas, they actually read that newspaper, and they follow us. So people follow us and they come in, and then—or some people come today and say, "Hey, let's everybody get in the car,

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we take you to Social Security office. You need to–to do application." One person take us go to church. If, at the church, people do donation. Some people is actually bring clothes to our house.

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So a funny, like, one weekend, the–the garage looked like garage sales, because a ton of people bring whatever they have to the house. I remember the first thing that we walked into the house that we rent, we didn't have AC,

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so we don't know how to connect AC. We don't know how to call the electricity, and we don't have phone. So, everything started out, it look like we–we homeless people. So we lay down on the floor, open the window.

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I remember July was so hot, that–that season is really hot. We open the window. We sleep in the house with no AC. I remember in the subdivision, there's one doctor, family doctor, and I hope, I–I don't know if he still survive.

00:34:51.680 - 00:35:07.400

Doctor Minh Nguyen. So he, that house is his house. This is the second house he had. And at the moment, he–he doesn't do anything with the house. And he find out my family is actually need a place to stay.

00:35:07.400 - 00:35:21.200

So, he opened his option. Give us that house to stay, and then we can pay him later when we have money. So, he was so generous that let my family and I people move in, right? Stay there.

00:35:21.200 - 00:35:36.830

So, I remember that as well, funny that he saw–he saw nine people in the house with no AC. So nighttime after the, his office closed, he come over and say, if any of us want to join his house with AC [laughs] so we can come

00:35:36.830 - 00:35:53.840

over. Just take some air, right? So, I remember that day, and his–his parents is, like my grandparents, is older, so we actually talk to him and hang out with him for 1 or 2 hours and then go back home and sleep.

00:35:54.260 - 00:36:13.090

We were so blessed that we have him that supporting us at that time. And I feel like from that moment, school become secondary to me. The reason because w-we're nine people, we need to eat,

00:36:13.090 - 00:36:24.190

right? We need the AC, we need electricity. We need a lot of stuff. It's coming from money. So, my sister, my oldest sister, me, and

00:36:24.190 - 00:36:41.590

my next brother is three people that who actually—can actually put school on the side and start working immediately to survive. So I did not think about going to college or learning ESL. Nothing at that moment.

00:36:41.590 - 00:36:58.810

We need to survive. So, I–I actually end up work for a candy store and owned by Vietnamese owner. So she accepted me as an employee. And just, I just sit and pack candy from 8 to 5.

00:36:58.810 - 00:37:12.890

[laughs] I just, every day, I pack candy. They make candy, I put candy in a package, and they sell packet, and they sell. I–I remember after second month stay in USA, I told my mom,

00:37:13.190 - 00:37:25.670

I want to go back to Vietnam. This is not what I expect. This is not future that I'm looking for. Because yes, in Vietnam we poor, but we are not that

00:37:25.670 - 00:37:38.210

poor and so desperate for support, right? In Vietnam, you have your relative, you have your grandmother, grandfather, you have aunt and uncle. We have community around you.

00:37:38.420 - 00:37:53.210

Over here, you're completely stuck that you have nobody. So I told my mom, can we come back home? This is so hard on us. And my mom say, when you actually submit the paperwork and leave,

00:37:53.210 - 00:38:09.700

it's just one-way. So you have to survive. No matter what, we–we ask her to go back home. I do remember my brother, he–he worked at the supermarket in the fishing

00:38:09.700 - 00:38:26.360

department. You know, when he was young in Vietnam, he never touched any housework. Coming in here, he have to go to supermarket and clean fish. And he cut his hand. He got home, his hand was swollen,

00:38:26.360 - 00:38:43.770

like, it infection. And plus we don't have cars, so if my dad took me go to work and drop my sister off and then drop him off, and then by the time he come home, he have to pick one of us up, right? Because only one car for nine people to–to move around.

00:38:44.580 - 00:39:00.150

I remember my brother cannot wait for my dad. He walked home, like, at nighttime, and his hand is bleeding. Those is–those is the, what I–what I said, like, sitting right here talking to you,

00:39:01.190 - 00:39:16.500

I don't know how I get here. Because the first days in this country was unbearable. It's–it's really hard. Yeah, it sounds extremely difficult.

00:39:16.500 - 00:39:31.440

[TN: Yeah.] I–I don't know how my–my–my parents did it either. It's incredible. Like going from nothing. No–no language, nothing. So, when were–when were you able to attend college and what

00:39:31.440 - 00:39:45.690

colleges did you attend? So, remember the candy lady? My boss [laughs]? My first boss in–in this country. She talked to me every day, and she fi–she

00:39:45.690 - 00:39:58.740

found out that I have big families. I have sister, brothers, too. So, she, one evening, she—okay, she paid me $3.25, I remember, every hour.

00:39:58.740 - 00:40:15.060

So, every week, she pay me weekly salary. And I'm really happy at the–the Friday when I get paid. I-I bring home all the money, give it to my mom. It's like, for me, it's the big contribution that I'm so proud that–that

00:40:15.060 - 00:40:28.810

money can buy many things for the family, right? So, she—my boss found out that I have so much to do at my age at that time. And she have children at my age, too.

00:40:28.810 - 00:40:40.510

And they have luxury life. And she's Vietnamese, and she can connect to the lifestyle that we have in Vietnam and coming here dealing with all of this. So, one evening, she took me home.

00:40:40.510 - 00:40:57.320

Her husband is American. So, she and her husband came home with me, and they told my parents, if you cannot support seven children, can we adopt Tram? Because they want me to go back

00:40:57.320 - 00:41:14.920

to school. They feel like I'm too young to–to put education behind, right? So my mom said, "No, no, no, we can do this. It's just the first few years." And the reason why my parents carried

00:41:14.950 - 00:41:28.930

seven children here because they want us to have a better life. But to get better life, you have to get bad life first [laughs]. You have to go through this exercise first. So, I don't know, like when I can go back to school,

00:41:28.930 - 00:41:44.250

with our condition like this. So after she talked to my parents, my parents feel like they have to do something to put children back to school. So the younger one go to high school and elementary.

00:41:44.250 - 00:42:02.790

But because I get here when I was 21, I was not allowed to go to high school. I'm old. So they told me that the only thing I can do is go to ESL class at night. And I graduated high school in Vietnam. But my high school diploma in Vietnam doesn't translate

00:42:02.790 - 00:42:18.660

equivalently with the high school in USA. So either I have to take GED or I have to do TOEFL test in order to go to community college. So after they talk, my parents

00:42:18.660 - 00:42:31.780

changed the focus now. We, I still go to work 8 to 5, but from 6 to 9 p.m., I go to ESL classes. I have to start some–something, right?

00:42:31.780 - 00:42:48.330

So, I go to ESL classes and then, I, after, I think, six months to a year, I decided to take TOEFL test. So, listening to TOEFL test is actually the five subjects that you

00:42:48.330 - 00:43:04.650

learn from GED, is math and science and government history. If you can actually take the test and pass the test with the score they require, then you can go to community college. So that's what I did. And after two years, Karen,

00:43:04.740 - 00:43:23.380

I passed the test, and now I go to Houston Community College. So this is how I start with my education. My first two years in SCC, I learned ESL classes only because I can't talk to anybody.

00:43:23.380 - 00:43:39.550

I–I need to pass all of them. What I call like pre-courses, like requirement before you can go to composition one, which is starting counting credit for college, right? So, the two years is pretty long time,

00:43:39.550 - 00:43:56.650

period of time. I just, in my mind, I say even though I go for two-year college like this, can I actually go to university? And at that moment, in my mind, when I was younger, I want to grow up, become a teacher like my–my French teacher.

00:43:56.650 - 00:44:11.030

So I love to become teacher, and that dream when you come to USA won't happen because language. So, I have to give up that as well. All I want to do is go to school, get out of school,

00:44:11.030 - 00:44:29.160

and get a job. Decent job so I can make money and helping my parents. Wow. That's–that's incredible. Just the amount of work schedule and then having to take ESL classes, right after work.

00:44:29.160 - 00:44:45.720

That's–that's amazing. [TN: Oh, thank you.] Can you talk more about–about going from Community—Houston Community College to–to University of Houston?

00:44:45.720 - 00:45:04.080

How was the transition for you? So, I was very lucky, when I–when I attend Houston Community College, I met my English teacher. And I just actually saw her last year again after 38

00:45:04.080 - 00:45:22.080

years. So, she's—her name is Laura Sheehan. She's the ESL teacher, and then she's the one who helping me transition from Houston Community College to University of Houston. So, after the first two years, I finished all what I call

00:45:22.080 - 00:45:39.030

requirements for what I call first two year of college. So now I really want to go to university, and then to transfer, you have to have certain number of credit hours with your GPA that above three, so you can

00:45:39.030 - 00:45:56.760

actually declare your major and transition to University of Houston. So I did really well in school. The reason because I have my dictionary with me. Everything that I do, I translate from English to Vietnamese.

00:45:57.210 - 00:46:14.730

Whatever I read. So, American student can read one chapter like an hour. It might take me ten hours because every single thing I read, I do not understand. So I have to translate that to Vietnamese to understand the concept so I

00:46:14.730 - 00:46:31.920

can take the test. So, I remember when I transitioned to university, it was really hard. The reason because now the subjects in the school is more what I call upper level in college.

00:46:31.980 - 00:46:48.990

The–the term technology of each classes, like, for example, "audit," "tax," and then, y-you know, all the stuff that we take, psychology or government history, is not the–the term that I learned from ESL.

00:46:49.380 - 00:47:07.320

The term I learned from ESL is helping me to communicate, basic communication. The stuff that in university is more technical now, right? So translate them would actually create what I call massive data that I could not connect

00:47:07.320 - 00:47:21.810

anymore. The reason because, like, you–you take a sentence and you break the sentence by word. Individual one, and you translate each of them and you put them together. It doesn't come out as a sentence anymore.

00:47:21.810 - 00:47:35.100

So, I get lost so much. And one time my tax teacher say, hey, Tram. I saw you do this in classroom. So, I'm recording every single class, and I listen to that lecture again and

00:47:35.100 - 00:47:48.240

again, and then I translate them. So, one class that I do in the school, like schoolwork, is maybe 3 or maybe 5 times longer than normal student perform their schoolwork.

00:47:48.240 - 00:48:02.730

So, he recommended me not using dictionary anymore, but take the whole sentence and translate them high level. So I can understand the concept, rather than translate every single word and put them together, and then I–I–I completely lost,

00:48:02.730 - 00:48:16.920

right? So I did what he recommended and I did well. So I slowly leaving my dictionary out of my life. The first five years, it's always with me no matter what, where I go, what I do.

00:48:17.280 - 00:48:34.770

His recommendation helping me move faster in school. But at the same time, I have to listen a lot of the recording that I do because when teacher talking and I take notes and I'm listening, and then I don't understand what they try to tell me,

00:48:34.770 - 00:48:48.690

right? Because y-your brain is trying to do three, four things at the same time, right? So, most of the time, I have to listen again when I got home and look at the notes that I write down to understand the concept,

00:48:48.690 - 00:49:02.010

to pass the–to pass the exam. So, the day that I graduate, I remember the day that I graduate University of Houston with accounting degree. I was thought, this is like, I–I–I won lottery ticket [laughs]

00:49:02.940 - 00:49:20.380

because I di—I would never thought I can actually finish school. People maybe finish school in four years. It took me seven years to finish–to finish my degree. It's just a dream come true for me.

00:49:20.380 - 00:49:33.610

And–and be honest with you, Karen, at that moment, I don't know why I take accounting either. I don't–I don't know, what does accounting do? So, when I met the counselor, I said, I want to become a teacher,

00:49:33.610 - 00:49:45.670

but when I come here, language is a barrier. So what can I, what can I study? That—so the counselor say, if you're good with math, take accounting. In Houston, energy company is everywhere.

00:49:45.670 - 00:49:55.330

Accounting degree very easy to look for a job. So, I went ahead looking for a job and making money, I said, okay, then let's go accounting. I have no concept what accounting does.

00:49:55.330 - 00:50:10.750

I just go with the flow and get it, get out. So–so this is, this is how I go through school. I have no idea what I take myself into, and then do accounting. Now, it's my 31 year now,

00:50:12.120 - 00:50:21.830

in this field. That's great to learn. I was actually going to ask, you know, what brought you to [TN laughs] bus-business and administration and accounting?

00:50:23.780 - 00:50:41.250

I have no choice. That's the only choice at that time. So, I want to ask if there were any other defining moments for you in–in college. You spoke a little bit about, like, people that you met that helped you a

00:50:41.250 - 00:50:56.490

lot. But I want to, you know, ask you if there's any other moments that stood out to you or any other people who helped you along the way that–that–that stood out to you. Yeah, so, I was very blessed

00:50:57.900 - 00:51:14.460

in many years and many different ways, always actually meeting good people, right? And supporting me and trust me and always motivating me to do better. The first person that I never forget is my first

00:51:14.460 - 00:51:30.420

boss, the candy store. She is somebody that always there for me mentally, physically, financially. And then the second boss is actually my ESL teacher,

00:51:30.420 - 00:51:48.150

somebody I remember. Teacher is only teaching in the classroom. She took me to the shopping center because I wanted to have a second job to help my parents. She go interview with me [laughs]. First time in my life that we go interview two people.

00:51:48.150 - 00:52:03.090

So, I interviewed for the job, but she's the one is the translator. So, whatever the interviewer speak in English, she translate that English to a simple level that I can understand. Right? So they allow her to come in, and she translate,

00:52:03.090 - 00:52:17.580

sometimes she use her hand and sh—her face expression, so I can actually understand what they ask. So, that's is the second person that helping me join the workforce. The third person in my life was

00:52:17.580 - 00:52:33.930

my—also another boss. When I was in University of Houston, I worked for GD–GED program. I worked for the director of GED program. She is the person who taught me how

00:52:33.930 - 00:52:49.110

to, I think, how to do interview professionally to get a job when I graduate college. She took me to go shopping, buy my first suit. I don't have suit. I–I don't know how to dress professionally,

00:52:49.110 - 00:53:04.890

go look for a job. She was there, take me go shopping, and then, you know, let me borrow the money to buy the suit. I still keep the suit here, even though it's pretty old now. So, go buy suit, and then practice every day when I come

00:53:04.890 - 00:53:19.590

to work and she acting like interviewer and I'm interviewee, so she keep practicing with me. She doesn't have to do that, but she did anyway because she–she see how much I struggle. And if I got my college degree,

00:53:19.590 - 00:53:33.630

even though if the GPA pretty high, but you cannot communicate, when college recruit come to school, you will not get a job, right? So, she is the third person in my life that brought me here today.

00:53:34.230 - 00:53:51.300

The rest of other people in my career, when I start working professional in corporate America, every single boss that I work for, they see how hard I work. They see where I come from, what I want to be.

00:53:51.690 - 00:54:08.280

And, you know, I–I always have one thing in my mind. When I do something, I will take it from a starting point and get it finished and completed. One thing that I do: I never defer stuff that I do

00:54:08.280 - 00:54:25.200

because you don't know what happen tomorrow. So, whatever happened today that you can do today, do it and give us your best, because tomorrow is the day might not happen. So, this is my theory of life.

00:54:25.200 - 00:54:40.770

And I always feel like if something happened tomorrow to me, I do not regret. Because I have done the best of today, right? So–so, that's is how I teach my children.

00:54:41.430 - 00:54:55.260

Give everything that you have, do everything you can, but don't defer. And that's is the same theory that I–I carry with me at the workforce right now. When I'm leading people at my accounting department,

00:54:55.260 - 00:55:10.830

they see how I work. They see my, what I call my "life theory." I carry it with me all the time. And they can see that, they can read through. And th-that's is one of the reasons, Karen, that people work with me and work for

00:55:10.830 - 00:55:25.870

me, they never want to leave me. Because I'm real. I–I actually say something and do something from my heart. I don't do that because the company pay me to do that.

00:55:26.380 - 00:55:43.690

I do that because I'm passionate–I'm passionate about what I do. I love what I do, and I care for people who I actually work with and work for. S-so for me is, it's you. It's you is the person who drives everything that you want to become.

00:55:47.310 - 00:56:02.910

So, you've had a long, impressive career. Over 30 years so far [TN: Uh-huh.] in various positions in finance and accounting. Can you provide a brief timeline of your professional

00:56:02.910 - 00:56:22.450

experiences and tell us if your professional interests have evolved over time? So, I–I started out working as an accountant in June 1993.

00:56:23.110 - 00:56:41.140

At that moment, I think I worked for Tenneco Energy Trading and Marketing, where I got my degree. Again, I started working here, and I remember clearly the day that I interviewed with Tenneco

00:56:41.290 - 00:56:56.140

company. Eight people in the company interviewing me. And without the boss that I worked for at GED, I would not pass the interview. Because she practiced with me for months, right?

00:56:56.140 - 00:57:08.470

And the interview channel is like eight people, and take time from 8 in the morning to 3 p.m. in the afternoon. I talk so much during the time that interviewing take place.

00:57:08.980 - 00:57:27.310

So, I got the offer, and I started working for Tenneco. After working for Tenneco for five years, I got promoted and become—first time in my life—become what I call management members. So, they see who I am and what I can do for the

00:57:27.310 - 00:57:45.790

company. And I remember that the person who I worked for, when he hand me the offer for the promotion, I send it back to him. I don't think I can be a leader. The reason because how I look, how I

00:57:45.790 - 00:58:00.250

speak, and I-I'm petite. So people in corporate America like, very—I think, and not only at work, I think at this society, people look at your appearance, right?

00:58:00.250 - 00:58:13.750

Look at you, look at how you talk, how you speak. And–and for me, to be a leader, to be the boss, that's important. I don't want to get that title, and people treat me or look–look down at me.

00:58:13.750 - 00:58:30.940

So, I give back the promotion letter to my boss, and I said, "I don't, I don't deserve it and I can't do this." So he said, "Oh, why do you think you cannot do this?" And I said, "Because the people in the team is much older than me.

00:58:31.660 - 00:58:48.310

The people actually more experienced than me, stay here longer. I–I cannot lead people and people tell me what to do. And then I cannot tell people what to do either." You know, in my tradition, like I said, we respect older people.

00:58:48.640 - 00:59:03.040

When you are the leader and you tell people what to do and they are older than you, you-you feel something not right, right? And I feel like very un-respect to tell people what to do. So, I'm afraid that that's will bring my career down

00:59:03.040 - 00:59:17.440

because I'm stressed more than I enjoy doing it. So, I–I told him that thank you, but I-I'm not taking the promotion. So he looked at me, he said, you are the first one in my career that when people who get promoted, they're very happy,

00:59:17.440 - 00:59:32.680

and you get really nervous and scared and turn it-turned it back. He said, "Why don't you try it for three months? And if it doesn't work, I take it back." At that moment, I-I was pregnant.

00:59:32.890 - 00:59:43.090

So, I wanted to be healthy. I don't want to be stressed. I want to have, like, healthy baby as well. So I promise to do three months.

00:59:43.090 - 00:59:59.190

And if it doesn't, then I—it's not me. So, after three months, Karen, I feel things come naturally, that I just be a leader. And I don't know what did I do different, but he said,

00:59:59.190 - 01:00:11.880

you do it anyway, that you just don't see it. So, I agree to keep that title. And since then, I move on. As a management member sin-since that time, and I moved

01:00:11.880 - 01:00:25.770

to second company at the Duke Energy Trading and Marketing. I run the Department of Accounting, Department for Settlement team. I do a lot of stuff like consolidate, you know,

01:00:25.770 - 01:00:41.370

closing office from local office and bring it back to headquarter. I'm very successful with that. And at that moment, when I moved to Duke Energy, my leadership skill is actually grow really fast.

01:00:41.370 - 01:00:56.130

I become more confident on what I do. I become more confident as a leader, right? But once in a while, I feel like I'm not the leader. I just the employee, one of the employee do the job.

01:00:56.130 - 01:01:09.300

So, I know when I left Duke, the company doesn't want me to go. Because the employee at, you know, where I work, they say we really want to go follow her.

01:01:09.300 - 01:01:23.280

If she's leaving the company, we follow her wherever she goes. So, HR department have talked to me and say, "You name the department, we give you the position you want. As long as you don't leave." So at that moment,

01:01:23.280 - 01:01:36.600

I can see my value now. I never trust myself. I never have the confidence that I can do much more than what I—I can do accounting. But for some reason, I grow naturally, that I can actually

01:01:36.600 - 01:01:54.300

talk and lead people and can planning and organizing for the team. I think that's naturally coming, because I'm coming from the big family. And I was the sister, older sister that leading so many things at home when parents not around, right?

01:01:54.720 - 01:02:11.930

That's helping me to become a better person, since when, I don't know. I think that's partial of that's coming from that background. So when I left Duke, I moved on to Sequent, where that I stay 20 years now.

01:02:11.930 - 01:02:24.800

I'm working with many other people now. I-I'm not just taking care of accounting department. I look forward to the trading office, the scheduling. Sometime I have to socialize with legal departments.

01:02:25.310 - 01:02:42.380

Since I work for Sequent, my career now is just not make me become a better person and leader, but now I'm looking out for other people. How can I make someone else become success and

01:02:42.380 - 01:02:59.840

succeed, right? So, this is when I agreed to leading the API—AAPI. This is the first time in Texas for Sequent that we have what we call "EAG," the employee resource group, represent AAPI at work.

01:03:00.050 - 01:03:19.490

And I know that since then, I've become more what I call "vocal." I don't feel like I have to look like "Elizabeth," like, blonde hair and tall, speak really well. At this moment, I feel like because I'm different,

01:03:19.580 - 01:03:36.020

I'm ver-I'm very unique person now. And I can see my value is much higher than other people who born here, who raised here, because I am different, right? That's EAG and AAPI is actually on the other side

01:03:36.020 - 01:03:52.970

of my career, helping me to become a better leader because I open window for many other people. And as time go by, I just wanted to do something for community.

01:03:53.210 - 01:04:06.770

So, not just for me, not just for my co-worker, and now I just want to see—when I come here 38 years ago, I only have two outfits. Many people bring many things to my house, right?

01:04:06.770 - 01:04:23.360

If, without them, I don't have a lot of stuff like I do today. So, my children grow up. This is a time for me that I think I want to do something for community. So during Covid, I took the classes called United

01:04:23.360 - 01:04:37.100

Way for the leadership to become board member. So I took the–the class for three and a half months, and I passed the class, and then I volunteer. Do you hear me?

01:04:39.200 - 01:04:51.670

Karen? Yes, I can still hear. Okay, so–so I, one day before my graduation day, the United Way

01:04:51.670 - 01:05:08.230

invite, like, four nonprofit president to join the graduation day for all the board members. The president of the CCC organization is actually come and talk to me because she know that I have accounting background.

01:05:08.230 - 01:05:23.290

She–she's looking for somebody to come in and helping her finance department, as well as the HR department. So, I agreed to tour her office and see what they do.

01:05:23.290 - 01:05:42.580

And I was so impressed with the CCC, so I agreed to accept the position and be a board member in Au-July 4 of 2023. I'm so happy to see that I can add value to the community where I actually

01:05:42.580 - 01:06:00.730

survived for the past 38 years. I also volunteer at BPSOS for 5 or 7 years now, helping people who want to become US citizen. You know, when I took the test, years ago, I almost failed the test.

01:06:01.180 - 01:06:14.590

English is the barrier, right? And the same thing to these people. So, I feel like this is something that–that I am very can relate myself to with. And after work, two days a week, I just attend

01:06:14.590 - 01:06:29.260

the BPSOS classroom. I show up in a classroom acting like a profess—like officer, so I can practice with the student who ready to take the exam and swear to become US citizens.

01:06:29.950 - 01:06:46.030

Many emotional moments when student passed the test. They saw me, they hug me, they cry. [laughs] Make me cry, too, because it's the big accomplishment. And I remember one–one year that I took the test back to where I

01:06:46.030 - 01:07:02.410

work, and I have American people take the test. 70% of people at workforce fail the test. So I feel like, okay, this is not fair. [laughs] This is not fair for all immigrant people that have to go through this,

01:07:02.410 - 01:07:17.050

when American people cannot do this. So my CEO is actually make everybody learn that test and become the IPO. This is something for me, is very—I think it's unique moment.

01:07:17.050 - 01:07:33.430

It's fun, but at the same time, add value, right? So, many things I do and everything I do, I bring my family with me. My nieces, my nephew, my husband, my children, everybody volunteer. Doesn't matter 30 minutes or one hour.

01:07:33.430 - 01:07:53.140

We enjoy that we can add value and help somebody. So, I want to move back a little bit. So, you're currently director of finance and accounting special projects. [TN: Mhm.] What are your current responsibilities

01:07:53.140 - 01:08:07.020

in–in your role? Yeah, so my role is actually, coaching and leading people is required. At the same time, I am supporting the front office.

01:08:07.020 - 01:08:22.650

So, Sequent Energy Management is the–the marketing company. So we buy natural gas and we sell, right. So we have three teams in accounting. We have—that's what's under me, is like gas accounting.

01:08:22.650 - 01:08:35.520

We have settlement team, we have volume management, and we have assets management. The–the transaction that when they buy and sell, we settle for them. So we make sure that we owe somebody,

01:08:35.520 - 01:08:53.490

we pay. And if somebody owe us, make sure they pay us that cost settlement. The volume balancing is when you buy and you sell, you make sure all the dictum—unit of gas, you know, natural gas moving from A to B, you make sure that recorded correctly in your

01:08:53.490 - 01:09:07.140

trading system. So that's one team. Another team is optimization, it's called assets management. So that's another team, very unique. So somebody else have assets and they don't make money

01:09:07.140 - 01:09:20.760

like–like you can, so they borrow us to do that for them. So they call assets management. So you are the manager, you manage their assets and then make—optimize their assets and making money.

01:09:20.760 - 01:09:37.440

And then you share on that benefit. So those are the three teams that I–I work with very close–closely. And I always look at process improvement. Company, not every single time they add on transactions

01:09:37.440 - 01:09:46.800

we allow to add people, right? So we have to look at the process that we do. Is this the best way to handle the business? Is this the most effective way?

01:09:46.800 - 01:10:00.660

So I work very close with the IT department and try to see if we can improve or automate the process that we do every day. Can we make it better? Or we can change the way how we do it, or maybe eliminate the process that we always

01:10:00.660 - 01:10:13.320

do, but it doesn't add any value. So, the process improvement become really big deal when William took over Sequent two years ago. Right? So we look at it, and now with AI

01:10:15.330 - 01:10:30.840

has come out, right? From nowhere. So, we utilize that and see if we can add value to the organization. So something that I love to do now is look at, you know, step back at everything I have done for 30 years.

01:10:31.630 - 01:10:47.860

Is this have to be the same since the first day I graduate and now, right? Because technology have changed daily. So, I have done so much by looking at the process for the whole organization. And that's become my task, mainly,

01:10:47.860 - 01:11:08.650

right now. I look at those processes and make improvement. If I can save money here and there, bottom number for company always better when you add value to the process you do. So, you mentioned earlier founding advising groups

01:11:08.650 - 01:11:25.960

of AAPI employees. I wonder [TN: Mhm.] if you can talk more about how these groups support AAPI employees. Yes. So, the Sequent company, I

01:11:25.960 - 01:11:41.110

think because we are in Houston. My headquarter before would be in Atlanta, now is in Oklahoma. If you travel to Atlanta and to Oklahoma, you don't see the diversified, diversified like what you see in Houston,

01:11:41.110 - 01:11:57.730

right? Theory in my accounting department, maybe 30% of workforce is Asian people. One of the time, my boss asked me, say, "Tram, why–why accounting look like Chinatown?" [laughs] I said,

01:11:57.760 - 01:12:13.480

"This look like Chinatown because Houston have all–all Asian people here." And he said, "I just don't want to mention about this, like about color or the divide. But I have seen many accounting department, but this is very different.

01:12:13.480 - 01:12:32.260

This accounting department is more like–like this isn't called Chinatown, but." If you look at it, you can see AAPI is actually good thing that I leading that, because many Asian people, personality is

01:12:32.990 - 01:12:50.770

very private, introvert, antisocial. Not because we–we hate that, but because we are not good at that. And we try to–to get far away from that, right? So, AAPI when I'm leading that, so for example,

01:12:50.770 - 01:13:04.090

Lunar New Year, this is something I bring it in. To celebrate with the company and to share the culture, so people understand is this important for us when we come to work the day, the day of New Year.

01:13:04.090 - 01:13:21.280

So–so those are the days that I teach people how to say Happy New Year in Chinese, in Vietnamese, in Korean or Japanese. So people have fun, and then explain to them why that we have red envelopes. So myself, I have to go online, Google them,

01:13:21.280 - 01:13:37.150

and learn so I can actually translate and sharing that to–to employee, to the company, to my coworker. We also share food. Food is—every time people get together, food is something is a tool to connect you and me,

01:13:37.150 - 01:13:51.970

right? Good food, good conversation. So Vietnamese, Chinese, Filipino, Indian food is all good. And it's different than pizza and hamburger. So it's more-more-more tasty, and it's playful.

01:13:51.970 - 01:14:09.880

So, every time I host the event, food is something that people would love to learn. Not just eating, but learn how to make them and understand the meaning of each dishes that we brought to the table. AAPI, also, because we was born and

01:14:09.880 - 01:14:24.760

raised in a family that, this is how we look and how we act. American culture, there are some good things that we need to learn from, right? Be outgoing, be outspoken.

01:14:24.760 - 01:14:35.590

Right? What is right is right. So sometimes when people say something wrong, and we afraid to say something, American, it is wrong, is wrong. They speak up.

01:14:35.590 - 01:14:53.650

But with Oriental Asian people, you rarely see that. We very, I-I don't know, we–we silent, we don't want anybody hurt because we're being honest or be direct. Since I'm leading that AAPI,

01:14:53.650 - 01:15:10.780

I feel like the team become more open, and the conversation now connect, rather than we hide. Right? For example, if during the review—company performance review, if they do good, you say good.

01:15:10.780 - 01:15:25.540

If they do bad, say bad and how you can help them, but not because you respect them and be nice and keep that. And, you know, for me, impact the bottom line of the company. So, being direct doesn't mean bad.

01:15:25.540 - 01:15:44.010

But you know when you say it and when to be outspoken, right? And if you feel like you under, what I call it, undertreated or didn't get treated like others, it's time to bring that conversation to management

01:15:44.010 - 01:16:01.230

members. So I feel seeing the AAPI go live, everybody become more active, more involved, and they feel like, yes, I am different, but my different value. That's different add value to the organization.

01:16:01.230 - 01:16:17.580

So I think that's–that's create positive workforce. And mentally you feel you–you belong, right? You belong to organization who value differently. So this is important for me, not just become a chairperson or

01:16:17.580 - 01:16:31.770

leading this organization, but I feel like we all have fun. We all the same. Yeah, we look different, but we should be treated the same, right? But not because you are different and then you get treated differently.

01:16:31.980 - 01:16:50.760

This is the value that I feel like I add to the table. I bring to the table and speak up for many people that who always perform really well but get under-treated or under-reward. Those are the stuff that I think it become more open now,

01:16:50.760 - 01:17:08.270

and I can see after five years, people who join these employee resource group become more vocal. And, you know, many of them become leaders in when they don't know through this–through this what I call organizations.

01:17:08.780 - 01:17:23.590

Also, it's the networking, right? These employee resource group bring people together. If you by yourself, you're not talking to anybody. You come to the office, you do your tasks, you go home.

01:17:23.680 - 01:17:35.350

You have no networking. The networking is important, right? You under process—you-you understand the process. You know what you-you need to do, but you have no networking,

01:17:35.350 - 01:17:50.080

sometimes it's hard to move around. So, it's important, many different ways. It's just not get together and eat and have fun. There are some lesson value added that companies

01:17:50.080 - 01:18:08.470

see is important for any organization to bring it in. And this year, I moved my role. I get out AAPI and I become leader on the women of Williams. This is the same group of people, I just moved

01:18:08.470 - 01:18:20.860

my–my title on the top. I give that opportunity for somebody. You know, I've been leading that for a while. I think it's new faces, new leader, new vision

01:18:20.860 - 01:18:34.930

would be better. So I move on to women of Williams. I feel like Williams always treat it like minority doesn't matter, they say equal or equivalent. We always get treated lower and no–no, no matter what we do,

01:18:34.960 - 01:18:53.410

we always have to be working harder and try harder and more perfect than men. So moving to this topic is actually I'm woman, minority. So this is actually a different angle of my EAG now, but I feel like, okay, it's the same group of

01:18:53.410 - 01:19:09.970

people, it's just different voice now. And now it's not looking at Asian or white or Black, but we all women, why did we bring women here? And–and what is the value that women contribute to the organization that

01:19:09.970 - 01:19:25.300

organization need to be aware of that, right? Without women, this universe would be tough. But-but for me, Karen, it's important to be somewhere, somehow and make everybody aware of what you do.

01:19:25.300 - 01:19:45.200

And be proud and be, I think, be confident and trust on your gut on what you take on. Any assignment have the ch—their own challenge. So you spoke a little earlier about being involved with BPSOS,

01:19:45.200 - 01:20:01.440

the Boat People SOS? [TL: Uh huh.] Can you talk a little bit more about the services that BPSOS offers and how you came to be involved in the organization? Okay, so how did I get involved first.

01:20:01.440 - 01:20:18.920

So when I'm leading AAPI for Sequent, we select three company. No, three non-profit organization that we can support. So, BPSOS on the list.

01:20:18.920 - 01:20:33.830

So I Google, and I look at it and I see this is actually close to what Sequent can do, can help. So I called the director at the BPSOS and I try to understand what they do.

01:20:33.830 - 01:20:49.090

So, BPSOS is actually a non-profit organization provide ESL classes for immigrants. They serve 27 countries. Immigrants that come here don't speak English,

01:20:49.090 - 01:21:05.110

so you go there and you learn English for free. Right? After your English is go to, I think, level five, this is when you can transition to the class called citizenship exam class because it's more–it's more

01:21:05.110 - 01:21:19.780

difficult now because they're talking about a lot of stuff. A lot of government history, and they ta—you learn so much about the country where you are living in. So, ESL completed, and then you move to the citizenship.

01:21:20.500 - 01:21:35.570

When I came to USA, I did not know anything about ESL. I-I learned from nothing, right? And then I took the US citizen, I almost failed the class. At that moment, there's no community.

01:21:35.570 - 01:21:47.630

There's no organization helping anybody. You on your own, right? So when I heard this and I say, this is me, this is me years ago, can I do something to help somebody?

01:21:47.630 - 01:22:05.420

Right? So I talked to my AAPI EAG at work, and I say, I will call this organization. We will go there, visit and tour the office, and see what they need us to help them. Right? So, six, seven of us

01:22:05.420 - 01:22:19.160

after work, we go there. We tour the office. And we saw ESL classes. Some of us interested, want to do that, to help the ESL classes. Some of us want to be in the US citizen, majority want to help with the

01:22:19.160 - 01:22:36.890

citizenship. So we divide the team in two different area to help. So, after work we go there, we have the material, we–we read the material, we test the student verbal. And we practice, right?

01:22:36.890 - 01:22:50.420

Not just one time. You practice, you can do Thursday evening, or you can do Saturday after lunch. So, some of us are prefer to do Saturday because afterwards, some people have home obligation that they have to go home.

01:22:50.420 - 01:23:07.220

So I can do Thursday, Saturday, some–some weekend I do both, I do Thursday and Saturday. What I see is become US citizen is something immigrant people, this is important to them because not only they

01:23:07.220 - 01:23:24.380

understand the government and they can talk, they can speak, they can communicate, but they can own the benefit as a US citizen. And some people, it's important to them because they can sponsor their family from home to come to USA,

01:23:24.380 - 01:23:40.400

right? So, seeing them learning day and night, and most people is old, 40 to 60 years old. They work really hard daytime and nighttime, they have to focus on learning this.

01:23:40.700 - 01:23:58.160

I feel like helping other and make impact on somebody else's life is important, and it's just not me. My company, many of us actually do this and bring their own husband and wife and children come to that BPSOS and helping as well.

01:23:58.160 - 01:24:14.270

So I feel like we touching somebody else life, we make impact on someone else life, is for me is a gift. That no value that you can put the price tag to that volunteer work.

01:24:14.990 - 01:24:29.450

This is meaningful, and–and I know that we video this. One–one time, we volunteer, we video, and we bring it to corporate headquarters in Atlanta. And we share with everybody in Atlanta what we do,

01:24:31.070 - 01:24:46.310

is make people so proud of Houston office. And I–I'm glad that we decided to pick BPSOS at that time. And now when I move to CCC, it's funny that CCC working with BPSOS as well.

01:24:46.400 - 01:25:01.070

Because they sending their people, when—they have ESL class over there too, if they feel they're ready, they send over here to do ci–US citizenship classes. And they find out that I'm over there, too.

01:25:01.460 - 01:25:17.300

So it's–it's fun to do something that you can see what I call tangible volunteer work. And I can see the result immediately. I'm happy when everybody pass the test.

01:25:20.010 - 01:25:30.820

That's really lovely, meaningful work. Yeah. I want to ask you about your family now. [TN: Mhm.] How many children do you have?

01:25:30.820 - 01:25:44.020

How—with your husband? And how did you meet your husband as well? Okay, so we met in University of Houston. He graduated before me, and he in double E

01:25:44.560 - 01:26:03.340

majors. So after we get married, I have my first child when I start working at Tenneco. She's 30 years old now, and she work for Hermann Hospital. She's have her doctor's degree in pharmacy,

01:26:03.340 - 01:26:19.720

so she pharmacist. And six years later, I got pregnant second time, and I have my son. So he in, attend in University of Virginia and attend law degree.

01:26:19.870 - 01:26:34.630

This is his second year at UVA. He have one more year. So he graduate next year, summer 2025. Both of them is actually are the two

01:26:34.630 - 01:26:48.220

people that I look up to every day. They work really hard. And they know I work hard for them, right? But I'm so blessed that they do so well that I

01:26:48.220 - 01:27:04.270

don't have to be, you know, balance work and life so difficult compared to many people. But I'm so blessed that they do well, so I don't have to save so much energy and focus on them. But much more focused on work and making money,

01:27:04.270 - 01:27:23.200

so I can provide financially and bring them to the community here, that they can become a better citizen when they grow up. So they do well. And I'm so proud of–to be a mother of those two. I look up to them because they mature compared

01:27:23.200 - 01:27:38.530

to their age. They look at, you know, issue and problems, and sometimes they share my–they share their feeling and opinion on what I do, right? Or something, I go home, I get stuck or get-get upset.

01:27:38.530 - 01:27:55.480

I talk to them, and they give them—they give me their two cents. Every single time having conversation with them, I enjoy and I have fun. They moving out now. My daughter is in medical

01:27:55.480 - 01:28:08.320

center area and my son in Virginia. I talk to them every morning, and this is my routine. So they text me every day. Just want to make sure they doing okay.

01:28:08.320 - 01:28:20.550

They healthy, they do well. But every single time that we have family topic that we need to discuss, we always get together. My husband is somebody that they go after for money,

01:28:20.550 - 01:28:35.830

[laughs] but every single else, they come to me for, like, "Mommy, can we get this one? We do this. What do you think about applying here or get this offer? Or should I change my resume, the way how this

01:28:35.830 - 01:28:53.410

look? What is your opinion?" So, even though they are my children, but I treating them as like my friend, right? I have somebody that close friends, that I can share anything, anything to them. And they been very honest.

01:28:53.980 - 01:29:11.840

For me, Karen, like I said, I'm so blessed having them in my life. They make my day. Every day is a happy day. How important was it for you to

01:29:11.840 - 01:29:27.920

educate your children when they were growing up about their heritage—so, Vietnamese heritage? Yeah, so, this is very important. Like I said, I come into this country have nothing,

01:29:27.920 - 01:29:43.190

right? They know that. They respect the elderly, like I always teach them, so. Doesn't matter that you born in this country, but if you look into the mirror, you are Asian,

01:29:43.550 - 01:30:00.080

right? You–you don't change the hair color because you born in the USA. You don't have, like, light skin or tall and big and speak like—even though their languages is not the barrier anymore, but don't forget where you come from.

01:30:00.080 - 01:30:16.400

So I–I'm always believe this is actually the—I think that's the biggest factor in their success, is to find out where they come from and who they belong to. Right?

01:30:16.850 - 01:30:30.830

My–my culture is actually treating everybody, education is number one. You know, culture is number one, parents—respect—if you cannot respect your parents, then you cannot respect anybody.

01:30:30.830 - 01:30:47.870

So, this is growing from the family. If this is successfully within the family, then they will become a better citizen. But if this is not success within the family, that would be tough. For-for me, this is–this is how I–I

01:30:47.870 - 01:30:58.700

teach and I raise them. I do see the differences between two culture. So every single thing on American side of it, if it's good, I utilize it.

01:30:59.150 - 01:31:14.510

You know, not–not every single culture is perfect. So I have to combine Vietnamese, good part of Vietnamese and good part of American and combine them, so make the room for them to breathe. They are not me, right?

01:31:14.510 - 01:31:30.470

I took them back to Vietnam ten years ago to see where I'm born, to see how I get raised, how I get grow up. That's actually add more value to them, rather than I just keep talking to them, and–and let them watch movie.

01:31:30.770 - 01:31:45.110

They witness the place and see the people, and see the–the country where my mom and my dad grow up. And to be who they are today, this is something for them to look up to.

01:31:45.110 - 01:31:58.340

Look in the mirror. Mommy and daddy go through really, really tough time. Very hard to survive. You don't have to go through that. Right? But don't–don't get spoiled, because don't get

01:31:58.340 - 01:32:13.880

anything for granted. Because you don't know what happen tomorrow. So–so for me, they see I work really hard. They see how I volunteer. They see how I give back to the community, how I perform at

01:32:13.880 - 01:32:31.700

work. It's something that reflects to them, and they look up to–to me as well. But at the same time, we exchange. We exchange the good part of each of us, and then we talk about that. And it's funny for me, both of them understand Vietnamese.

01:32:32.330 - 01:32:49.610

At the dinner table, I don't allow people speak English. [laughs] You speak English enough at work and at school. So this is time to speak Vietnamese because I don't want them to forget. And–and they–they need to do that, so they can communicate to my parents as

01:32:49.610 - 01:33:07.520

well. What was it like for you returning to Vietnam? Returning to Vietnam, one thing that I feel like I have success story to share with my family, I have

01:33:07.520 - 01:33:21.890

success career. Financially, I can support my family who are very poor in Vietnam. I can talk a lot about USA, right? At the same time, I miss my country.

01:33:22.250 - 01:33:36.050

I miss many people that couldn't make it here. I miss everybody that I don't, you know, I grow up for the first 21 years with them. I miss that–that age. I don't have that age like everybody else had.

01:33:36.770 - 01:33:54.510

However, to exchange for that, this is what I have today. I-I know that for–for me, if I get older and when I get retired, I want to split my time 50-50. I want 50 of my time would be in

01:33:54.510 - 01:34:11.250

Vietnam and enjoy the end of your retirement with your own people. And the 50 percent of my time is sharing that time with my children. I-I feel like it's time for me to do something that I feel I'm happy,

01:34:11.250 - 01:34:25.650

and then something, I call it enjoy. And it looks like relax. My 21 years old, when I came here, after the day I get married, have children, go to work, I did not have a break.

01:34:25.650 - 01:34:42.600

Continuous, you know, the—it's challenge continuous for many years already. So, the retirement is not bad. I hope that I can actually work up till when I turn 65, 67. And I hope I'm healthy, so I can enjoy my

01:34:42.600 - 01:34:56.550

life. I have not enjoyed yet. [laughs] It's pretty busy. Pretty busy, and try to, you know, try to run and chase many things. I-I, you know, for me, healthy is-is the key.

01:34:56.790 - 01:35:10.290

So, everybody at work, if–if they're not happy, they always say, "You always smile, so we don't know why you're so happy." I say, "Life too short." And I know that my daughter in pharmacy school and she said, "Mommy, don't get stressed.

01:35:10.320 - 01:35:24.840

Take it easy, relax. Because stress have no medicine for it." [laughs]. So, so I told my–I told my team work, I say my–my coworker, I say, don't be stressed. You know, work is stress enough already.

01:35:24.840 - 01:35:36.030

If you add more stress, you have no medicine for it. And the more–that the more you, you know, work you get, the more stress you gain. And then, you get older, too.

01:35:36.030 - 01:35:50.130

So you don't want to go down. You want to be healthy and enjoy life. So everybody, every time they see me, I walk in into the office, I smile immediately. And everybody, "She's here!" I'm

01:35:50.130 - 01:36:07.800

very energetic. And I'm happy. For me, that make the day go fast. [laughs] If you get angry, you get upset, and you're mad all the time, your life is—you don't have quality, eight hours every day.

01:36:07.800 - 01:36:23.280

So, yes, not because I–I'm always happy, there's sometime I can actually hide really well. I keep a lot of stuff internally with me, right? That's something that I can share, something I can actually control.

01:36:23.280 - 01:36:37.950

Most of the stuff that I cannot control, I hold back. Y-you know, when I don't talk, there's something happened. [laughs] When I–when I'm quiet, this is the time I get really deep down inside of me, there's something going on.

01:36:37.950 - 01:36:53.610

But for me, be happy. Every day, wake up, and you feel healthy. You are blessing for one more day. That's a great lesson.

01:36:53.610 - 01:37:01.680

I will remember that. Yeah. Every day I wake up—yeah, every day I-I wake up, I say, "Okay, this is a good day. I'm–I feel healthy today." [laughs]

01:37:03.880 - 01:37:21.780

Okay, so we're moving on to last set of questions. [TN: Mhm.] So first off, how would you identify yourself ethnically? Ethnically, I am Vietnamese.

01:37:22.940 - 01:37:39.620

I grow up, and I was raised in Vietnam, right? That never go away. And I am proud of who I am. I am proud that I have my parents, who sacrificed so

01:37:39.620 - 01:37:53.000

much so I have what I have today. Right? I'm happy that I have my sister, my brothers, have the same dream like I do. And we support each other.

01:37:53.000 - 01:38:11.350

And then we all now have children, and we pass that out to my children and make sure that they don't get struggle like we do. Financially, for sure they don't, but mentally and physically,

01:38:11.350 - 01:38:27.310

might be something impact them that we don't know. So, we want to make sure that we do the best as the parents. And–and for me, Vietnamese, or I think Oriental people, family is–is important, right?

01:38:27.310 - 01:38:43.330

So, keep that–keep that family go strong because supporting not just you, it's everybody who related to you. And like I said, I'm–I'm very proud, if everybody's ask who I am, I say I am Vietnamese.

01:38:43.840 - 01:39:01.300

I remember, 2017, I was nominated to go to Woman of Utility conference as a speaker. For two months, Karen, I did not sleep. When I get nominated, I was so scared.

01:39:01.330 - 01:39:17.620

I don't—this is the first time when I leading the EAG as a–the chairwoman. So my controller from headquarters say, "I nominate Tram to go this year." So, I sa—"I-I don't know why she nominate me",

01:39:17.620 - 01:39:34.060

but I was so scared because the person who host the event annually, they interview me. So they want to make sure they have the panel speakers that doing well, and all the story connected. I never be a public speaker.

01:39:34.150 - 01:39:47.410

I only talk in front of the accounting department. So, this is a big challenge for me. So I talk to myself in a mirror every day for two months. I got on the bus, I talked to myself on the bus.

01:39:47.410 - 01:40:00.430

I practice my public speaking. And that day came. I show up, and I couldn't eat. My head hurts. My stomach hurts. Everything, it just like so bad.

01:40:00.430 - 01:40:15.430

And I was so lucky that one of the CEO from Enter—Energy—Entergy company, she from Louisiana, she came by, sit next to me, and she said, "Hey, I saw your name on the–the program.

01:40:15.430 - 01:40:31.300

You are number five, speakers coming up after lunch." And I say, "Yeah, I cannot eat. I don't know what I'm doing now. I'm so nervous now." So she say, "Oh, I will be the speaker right before you—right before me." In my head at that moment,

01:40:31.300 - 01:40:46.090

first, right after lunch is a bad time, bad timing. Second, I speak right after the CEO of the company. [laughs] So, I guess really for me, it was like bad timing for both. And then she say, "Don't worry.

01:40:46.090 - 01:41:01.600

Just, you know, after I finish, I will go back to the room. And then you get up there and you look down, you see me, you just tell me about your story, your career journey. So, you like, you're talking to me now, you don't get

01:41:01.600 - 01:41:17.110

nervous. You just look at me and talk to me. Okay? So, remember that." So I–I actually go to the bathroom. Washing my face, and then I changed my traditional outfit to Vietnamese. Áo dài, right?

01:41:17.740 - 01:41:36.040

When she saw me, she said, "Whoa, this look like fashion show." [laughs] And–and I said, "No, I just want to tell people where I come from. I'm ver—I'm so proud when I wear this dress." So she said, "Okay, that's fine." So I get up there,

01:41:36.370 - 01:41:54.250

I have 30 minutes to talk to the whole group. The first two minutes, my heart beat like 300 times faster, and I couldn't actually say anything because I-I thought I'd get stroke very soon. And then, after two minutes, I look at her and

01:41:54.250 - 01:42:08.210

I start telling her my story. I did not know 30 minutes go so fast. And when I finished, the whole conference, everybody stand up and clap hands.

01:42:08.870 - 01:42:27.140

I saw many people was crying, so I did not know where that they saw emotional because I did not cry at the time I speak. Many people come and hug me. And they say, "This is the best conference that I've been through

01:42:27.140 - 01:42:41.120

because it's so authentic and so real. Right? That they never have anybody, like speakers, go up there talking about the career journey, so many challenges, and how do you overcome that."

01:42:41.870 - 01:42:57.110

So, I remember because I was a speaker, so Sequent have one table go for free, you don't have to pay. So ten people at the company attend that conference with me. Everybody at Sequent was crying, in tears.

01:42:57.140 - 01:43:14.510

They hugged me, and they say, "Tram, this is unbelievable." And I was so happy that my two months gone now. I don't know how much appetite I lost, and I did not sleep well. It's over. That's all I know, it's over.

01:43:14.510 - 01:43:28.460

And, Karen, the next day when I come back to the office, the company put a big sign, saying "Welcome Home" and "Congratulations" at the conference. And they have big cake and flower for me.

01:43:28.970 - 01:43:44.200

They were so proud of me that I stepped out of my comfort zone and do what I don't feel comfortable. And they told me that, "Tram, you don't know that you have the skill naturally, you can talk.

01:43:44.650 - 01:43:58.990

You can actually bring in your–your real story, touching many of us." You know, not only in the office. Now, people at the conference, this is coming from all over the USA, they attend that conference.

01:44:00.040 - 01:44:16.850

I call my controller in Atlanta. I say, "Thank you so much for letting people hearing my story. Because I never in thousand years, I would never thought that I can do this.

01:44:16.850 - 01:44:30.080

And you have the confidence on me, right? You trust me. You give me the opportunity to share, and I owe you for that." [laughs] And she said, "No, you did it for the company.

01:44:30.080 - 01:44:41.210

And we're so proud of you. Many people attend the conference, send us an email, say how well you did." So I, you know, for me, I'm so blessed, Karen.

01:44:42.050 - 01:45:01.720

Many step in my career, in my life, I have been, like, meeting people from left to right. Always give me the opportunity and trust me, trust me on many different angles that I don't see myself that

01:45:01.720 - 01:45:18.250

I can do it. That's such a great memory. Thank you for sharing that with me. So, my next question is, what do you feel most proud

01:45:18.250 - 01:45:35.760

of in your life? I'm very proud of who I am today. Overcome so many obstacles and challenges. Many times, I want to give up, right?

01:45:35.760 - 01:45:54.070

But then, I feel like I am not the only one in this country go through this challenge. I'm not the only one. And I'm not the only one success and succeed. There are many other people out there that they don't come to USA with parents,

01:45:54.070 - 01:46:10.480

with siblings. They come here by themselves. They escaped Vietnam, they escaped from China, or many other, you know, country to come here to find freedom and have better life. I feel blessed that I got support

01:46:10.480 - 01:46:19.780

from many different sources. Many people don't have that. I–I just sit down on many conference. I hear many different story.

01:46:20.260 - 01:46:37.120

Much more people overcome in different angle of life, and they survive. I got support. You know, I'm proud of what I have done, but I'm so proud to listen to those story. And I, for–for me, Karen, don't look up, but look down.

01:46:37.120 - 01:46:52.360

Look down at too many people, you know, have many, many difficulty that they have no support. You feel like you're so lucky that you survive, but you survive with many other hands pushing you and

01:46:52.360 - 01:47:09.310

allow you to become who you are today, right? So, for–for me, I'm proud of what I–I have done so far. And I never regret what I decide to do on any task that I have done. I do with my passion.

01:47:09.550 - 01:47:23.140

I do from my heart. I don't do it because the company paid me to do what I do. I do it because I love what I do. Right? And when I volunteer, the same thing.

01:47:23.860 - 01:47:42.510

I volunteer because I owe the community what they have given me for years and never asked me one time to give back. And when it's time, I decide to do this. When I do volunteer for BPSOS and also for CCC,

01:47:42.510 - 01:47:57.510

I think I–I postponed it quite long, right? And–and for me now, my children's success, I have the career, I have the–I have everything that everybody wants to have. So, it's time to give back.

01:47:57.510 - 01:48:09.300

Helping others, right? No other time better than this time. So, I cannot hold back anymore. I hope everybody, you know, if they listen to this video or they

01:48:09.300 - 01:48:27.330

been through what I've been through, try to do your best and try to give back. Every single–every single day that I think when I give back, when I do something for somebody, God look down to you and protect you.

01:48:27.330 - 01:48:42.780

Because they know that–they know that you can do more. The more you give, the more you get. Life is always two-way. Right? It's never like—I-I remember one person told me that

01:48:42.780 - 01:49:02.380

God never take everything away from you, but God would never give you everything you want. So it's a–it's kind of balance out everything, right? And for me, that's the first statement to every single one of us to remember because no one is

01:49:02.380 - 01:49:17.230

perfect. No one have everything. If you look at people from outside, and say, "Oh, they're so rich, they have everything." That's not necessary, right? One life is have many components, financially,

01:49:17.230 - 01:49:31.090

physically, mentally. Do they have everything? We don't know, right? So, each of us have their own–we have the own journey. We have different challenges, we have different difficulty, and we also have different happiness.

01:49:31.540 - 01:49:47.200

How do you control all of that and make it become one, so you can actually overcome and be—become success? I know for me, so many days that I sit in–on the bus on the way home, I have so many things that I'm stuck.

01:49:47.200 - 01:50:00.520

I don't know how to resolve it. You know? But after I share that with many people, get their opinion, get their idea, the networking out there in life is very broad. When you get

01:50:00.520 - 01:50:17.410

stuck, reach out to somebody, talk to someone. Right? You are not alone. Many people out there have so many problems similar like you do. Right? So when you go downhill or when you feel

01:50:17.410 - 01:50:33.940

at your lowest point, reach out to someone. Reach out to someone. I think the conversation can go on and on, on. Somebody will be willing to listen to you. And I think that can give you some advice, and some–some people can help

01:50:33.940 - 01:50:50.130

you. So you are not traveling alone. Never feel alone. And then for me, I always feel that, and I—so everything I do, I feel like somebody will be behind me or watching under me or above me and helping me.

01:50:50.130 - 01:51:01.120

Give me the energy, and–and feel like I can do this. Right? I can take on more assignment. I can take on more, more work. I can do more tasks. I can do more volunteer.

01:51:01.480 - 01:51:16.420

My mom say, "When do you stop?" [laughs] I said, "Mommy, if I stop, I'm sick." That's, I mean, I-I just lay down. I don't have any more energy. I think is–is you. Is you, because

01:51:18.510 - 01:51:33.550

if you learn to live and you learn to give, the more you do, the better you become. Everything. Not just life only. Everything you do is through practice.

01:51:37.520 - 01:51:55.920

This is just very inspiring. I can, just speaking with you, I can feel how passionate you are. Oh, thank you, Karen. I've learned so much from many people. So, I want to learn a little bit more about you.

01:51:55.920 - 01:52:14.110

So, what are some hobbies that you have? Oh, I have many. Like–like I said, I–I'm the person don't sit still. I make my time always with activities. And something, during Covid,

01:52:14.110 - 01:52:30.670

I–I learn how to make macarons. It's the most difficult cake or dessert, and it's so elegant. So I–I failed almost like 200 times. I watch YouTube, and then I go to Facebook and I'm chat.

01:52:30.670 - 01:52:46.350

I ask people, "Why did I do this? I'm still failing, like everything not come out correctly." And again, I met somebody on Facebook and she has the macaron bakery and she said, "Okay, I would–I will teach you.

01:52:46.350 - 01:53:02.160

Promise me you don't, you know, back to–to become as your business because that's her business." So during Covid, I learned how to do that. And then, Sequent is actually go through what I call yearly

01:53:02.160 - 01:53:17.790

United Way, and I donate all my macarons to United Way. And I was so surprised that people supporting me, they order until I say no more order. Because I can't bake, I cannot bake every day like this.

01:53:17.790 - 01:53:31.560

Macaron take a lot of time, right? So some people order 200 dollars, and it's like, if I say 3 dollars each, 200 dollars is a lot of cakes that I have to bake. So it was like, every year, macarons becomes

01:53:31.560 - 01:53:48.990

my to-go, you know, to-do list because people love my macarons. So funny, when I bake, I bring my team here and they can decorate the cake. And then we donate everything we bake and—to United Way, so they can take that money, help people who need the money for

01:53:48.990 - 01:54:02.970

whatever reason. I love photography. I become really good with that. Also during Covid, I bought a camera, and I go to YouTube. Every day, I get on YouTube, I learn how to take picture.

01:54:03.390 - 01:54:19.650

So since the day that, this is my second year now, I take a lot of photo for events, community events, company events, and also for the place where I volunteer. If they have any festival,

01:54:19.650 - 01:54:33.510

they call me and say, "Hey, can you come take picture?" So everything I do, I put it into a perspective like it's useful. It's just not for entertainment only, right? The more that I give, the more I practice,

01:54:33.510 - 01:54:48.060

the better I-I do the task. So that is the two things that I love to do. I love cooking. I cook a lot. Every single day I go to work, to downtown, from downtown to

01:54:48.060 - 01:55:03.270

Katy. I take the bus, like, each way an hour. I get on the bus, first thing I do, I go to Cooking Channel. And I–I watch the several people, I admire their cooking. And I cook. And I cook, and then weekend, I go give the food to my

01:55:03.270 - 01:55:16.950

parents, to my children. I love cooking, and I enjoy when I cook. And it's give me—I think it's just like a moment that I feel like artistic combined, and it's release my stress.

01:55:16.950 - 01:55:32.670

You know, when I cook, I enjoy. I don't eat a lot. [laughs] I just put the dishes, display, and then take picture of it. But that's what I do. I love–I used to love scrapbooking.

01:55:32.670 - 01:55:50.580

Every single trip that we go, you know, family travel, I make an album. I design my scrapbook. I stay up really late to make albums after albums. But again, for me, one time my boss told me that he was

01:55:50.580 - 01:56:06.210

surprised that I–I have right, left and right brain. Because people technical with numbers don't do good with art. [laughs] And he said, "You do have both."

01:56:07.260 - 01:56:20.460

And he said, "Tram, this is shocking." And this is funny, one year, I was selected as employee of the year. He has to give a speech about me. And this is one thing he brought up.

01:56:20.460 - 01:56:34.530

He said, "She's really good. This number, really good person, very good with numbers. However, she good with scrapbooking." I have a team do scrapbooking. We get together, and we bring all the supplies and we

01:56:34.530 - 01:56:49.020

share, right? And then you can bring the picture of your family, and I'll bring my picture, and then we all share idea. We buy magazines so we can get idea, we go to YouTube. This is something that you can relax.

01:56:49.020 - 01:57:02.940

And at the same time, you know, make memories out of that. And I–I have fun. I'm very busy, Karen. [laughs] It sounds like it. But–but good busy?

01:57:03.120 - 01:57:10.170

Yeah, good busy. Meaningful. Yeah. Yeah. So, couple-just a couple of questions left.

01:57:11.460 - 01:57:28.890

I'd like to hear how you would describe the Vietnamese American community in Houston, like you spoke before about how there wasn't that many Vietnamese people here at first, of course, but now there are. So I would like to hear about your take on the changes

01:57:28.890 - 01:57:45.150

of Vietnamese American communities in Houston and if you have any hopes for the community in the future. Yeah, so, I love Houston, and that's why I stay here since the day I came to USA.

01:57:45.540 - 01:58:01.890

It's very—it's super diverse city, right? Everything in Houston, doesn't matter how many places I travel, Houston also the best city in the world. It's like the place to stay, cheap.

01:58:01.920 - 01:58:11.880

The food is actually so good. There's so many country here, and, you know, people are very friendly. I'm proud of who I am.

01:58:11.880 - 01:58:26.430

And I'm proud to be called Houstonian. Not just Vietnamese, but I'm fe—I'm so proud of the city that allows so many immigrants coming in and make the city become the best, right?

01:58:28.530 - 01:58:45.240

You know, when I travel to Chinatown on Bellaire, one day, I was seeing the street names have American names and Vietnamese street names. It's make me so proud of I am Vietnamese because

01:58:45.240 - 01:58:58.170

Vietnamese street name, this is all the street in Vietnam, now it's actually on Bellaire. The main boulevard of Houston allow community to put that on the street.

01:58:58.170 - 01:59:15.840

That's mean they acknowledge–they acknowledge who you are and where you come from. So I'm so proud to be Vietnamese and be Houstonian. I see the community get bigger and bigger, but then bigger not in the bad way.

01:59:15.840 - 01:59:33.250

Some city get really big and become messy, right? We get bigger, but we get acknowledged so well. When I attend United Way training program to be board the director, I'm so proud that the–the

01:59:33.250 - 01:59:48.810

charts show the population of Asian, and then the salary of Asian community and the diploma Asian community, it's the really high scale.

01:59:49.080 - 02:00:08.010

You know. I sit at the back, but I'm so proud because all the good ones, we're on top, of every single ethnic. Whether we have that back to the root, this is how we are. This is how we get born and raised to become a better community.

02:00:08.010 - 02:00:24.690

You know, like, as the citizen, not so only just the daughter or the son or the parents, but you are supporting this community to become a better place to live, right? And–and for me, I'm so proud because that traditional is actually

02:00:24.690 - 02:00:37.560

carry out to the city. And it's been acknowledged. That flowcharts is done by one professor from Rice University. He retired last year.

02:00:38.100 - 02:00:54.120

So he came to the classroom and he do that, what I call like statistic every year, so they can see how city, what–what area that city need to improve. And what city–what area that–that we don't need to worry,

02:00:54.120 - 02:01:10.230

and why certain thing flip up and down month to month, year to years, right? When I–when I saw that, first time in my life, been here many years, I did not see that. Now it's put into a perspective is the

02:01:10.230 - 02:01:25.890

data that university is actually collected and show to the–the classroom. So, for me, Karen, I would not change Houston, Texas for anything. I think this is the city I will stay, I will retire,

02:01:25.890 - 02:01:38.810

and until the day I die. Alright, last two questions. Do you have any message you want to give to your children whenever they might watch this interview?

02:01:39.950 - 02:01:56.090

Oh, yeah, so to my lovely children. Right, I told you, I am the luckiest. I think I'm the luckiest mom on the universe, that I have two of them very different, but their

02:01:56.090 - 02:02:14.920

differences is so unique that I can actually treat them like my friends. And I look up to them every day to be, become a better person, not just become a better mother. Who I am today, since I have them,

02:02:14.920 - 02:02:33.020

I become better and better. Right? I know how to balance work and life. I know how to look at issue different angle. I know how to listen. Asian parents never listen.

02:02:33.020 - 02:02:48.230

They always think parents always right. My rule is my rule. [laughs] You cannot override my rule. So for me, I–I learned from what they have done in their life. And then I take it out for–for me,

02:02:48.350 - 02:03:03.650

as a person come to this country really late in my lifetime. This is the valuable lesson that my children give to me, that I don't have to learn from the society, but learning directly from them, right?

02:03:03.650 - 02:03:18.380

This is how they grow up. This is how they get thing and how they look at things differently than I am. It-it's not—it doesn't mean it's bad. It's just how I can compromise them and to be better.

02:03:18.380 - 02:03:35.390

And I think this is a very valuable lesson for me. I am so blessed that they take the tradition that I carry for many years. They continue to carry that, and they picked up all the good

02:03:35.390 - 02:03:51.650

ones and to become a better person. And I think they will add so much value for the city. My son decided to practice law in Texas, so he will come back to Texas. My daughter's practice in Memorial Hermann right now,

02:03:51.650 - 02:04:04.790

she saved so many lives. I admiring them for so much. So much–so much evening, weekend, late night, they studied to become who they are today.

02:04:05.150 - 02:04:17.090

They chasing their dream. And they give me something that I feel like is the tool for me to chasing my own dream, right? I-I give up many things.

02:04:17.090 - 02:04:34.190

But one thing I don't give up is my children. They are my energy. They give me, you know, the oxygen that I can breathe in and out every day and become very productive at work and become a good parent at home.

02:04:34.610 - 02:04:48.140

So, I owe them for that. And I, you know, for me, if they listen to this video, they know that I say this from here, from my heart. And I love them unconditional.

02:04:50.660 - 02:05:06.050

Okay, so last question. Is there anything that you would like to add that we have not covered yet? Now, I feel very thankful that I

02:05:06.050 - 02:05:25.640

attend that CCC annual event few months ago and get to know Rice University have this HAAA program. I feel like this is actually something so valuable for the community.

02:05:26.180 - 02:05:45.530

It's not just recording for history, for record of data, but this is to pass on to many people who needed to listen and who need to–to feel a motivation. There's someone out there, have some issue or maybe

02:05:45.530 - 02:05:59.750

some challenge like you do. So don't give up. I feel like the sky is the limit. You just have to give your best. And if it doesn't come out right, this is okay.

02:06:00.140 - 02:06:15.770

We are different. Not because A person's success and then B have to be success. Some people don't go from A to Z successfully, but they end up somewhere that they feel they're happy.

02:06:15.770 - 02:06:31.670

And they feel they value to the organization, to the society, to the family. Never feel like you are alone, right? You have people. You always have somebody to talk to.

02:06:31.670 - 02:06:46.960

And–and for me, this is the resource that people—I think this is program that helping many other people out there to believe in themselves and give themselves credit. Little thing that you do, give yourself credit,

02:06:46.960 - 02:07:03.140

so you feel motivated and you feel happier. You don't have to become somebody. There's no need to. You just have to be you, and be true and be honest to yourself.

02:07:03.140 - 02:07:16.490

And everything else will follow through. And all you do is your commitment. Don't-don't do it just for the checklist. Do it for–for your heart telling you this is the right thing to

02:07:16.490 - 02:07:34.550

do. And if that time, you have that capacity, you available, push it through. You-you can do it. And you know, for me, I feel like if I can do anything, many other people out there can do this as well.

02:07:35.210 - 02:07:51.720

I am no one, and–and I know many, many success stories out there that I listen, I attend conference. Those moments give me additional bonus, so, for me, can go further and longer.

02:07:52.140 - 02:08:10.020

I love listening to all of this, you know, so every time the company have conference or organization have any conference invite people coming in. Sometimes, I just listen on YouTube or TED. It's give me some perspective that–that someone can—you know,

02:08:10.020 - 02:08:26.130

nobody can teach you, it's just you teaching yourself. And if you discipline well enough, I think you can do whatever you want. Okay, I think that's a really great note to end

02:08:26.130 - 02:08:45.500

on. I have loved listening to you, learning from you. So, thank you again for speaking with me today. Thank you so much, Karen, and thank you to the school, the organization. I-I feel like I'm so blessed

02:08:45.500 - 02:09:00.290

meeting many people. And Rice University is one of the best school in Houston, Texas for many years. I know that in my dream, I could never attend this school. [laughs] I can never actually qualify to enter the school.

02:09:00.290 - 02:09:13.910

I visit the school many times. Like-like I said, I took my children there, they want to attend the school. But again, it's–it's just all, everything happened for a reason.

02:09:13.910 - 02:09:27.800

So never take thing negatively and feel like it's not your time yet. Then there–there are many other windows, right? One close, open another. Don't–don't close every–every single one of them.

02:09:27.800 - 02:09:46.100

So I'm very lucky that the HAAC—or HAAA at Rice University take this time and–and recording this video for me. This is my—I think this is the gift, that no

02:09:46.100 - 02:10:01.850

one give it to me. The school is actually do that for me. And I'm–I'm so happy that I can keep this later on for my family, and I think for many generations, later on, can actually listen and watch.

02:10:02.060 - 02:10:15.470

And thank you again. If you can pass this message for me, I appreciate, appreciate so much for everything you guys have done for the community. Thank you.