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Okay. So today is April 7th, 2019, and we’re interviewing Dr. Tram Ho. Uh, my name is Juno and this is Niky. Um, great!

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So we’ll just go ahead and ask you a few questions. So our first question is when and whe—when and where were you born? I was born in uh Da Nang, Vietnam, um in 1969. And could you describe your childhood a little bit?

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My childhood was, um… like ordinary Vietnamese uh children. I went to school but before 1975 of course. That was during the Vietnam War, the era where the American was involved.

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Of course I was very little so not re—recalling much. Except I uh, just remember I went to a Buddhist school, a private school but then in… after April 30th

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1975, when my dad who served in uh the South Vietnamese Navy, were arrested after the war. And like any other military serviceman or woman were in concentration

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camps, it’s called reeducation camps, under the Communist regime. Therefore he was taken away for three years, which was lucky for him, but other people have served 5, 10, depends on your rank.

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So he was taken away so, left my mom who was pregnant with the sixth child. She had five children with her at that time. And my grandparents just took care of all of us, and my youngest brother was born in October

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1975 so were not able to see my dad until he was released from the reeducation camp. So, but, I thinks that the mark there uh, ‘75 really changed

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my life. As others said, you go through the hardship, you grow up faster than if I could see my children here. It’s just the environment make you grow. You realize you

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missing the father figure in your life. The hardship, and… My mother was a very brave woman, to, able to raise us all by herself. At that time, she was from

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privileged family. Therefore, under Communist rule that time, was trying to make everybody um, I guess, poor equally, or redistribution of wealth, let’s put it that way. So it was coming in to

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raid our house, taking away our um, our um—my mom’s, whatever she could save just to help us, was taken away, but she was able to manage by herself. And we

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were lucky that our house was not taken away, but other people that I know, even my friends from childhood, their houses were taken away when their par—when their dad, when their mom, was in the reeducation camp. We were able to keep our house and was not forced into

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the economic zone, the new economic zone when they pushed you out of the country—out of the city to go to the countryside, to cultivate like new area. Uh therefore we were still lucky to be in, within that, uh…

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So that, all of this really uh, make you aware of what’s going on around you, and all through the um, changing of—the money is changed, like you change

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out of the old money to get in back the new money. And everybody’s—every household has a limited amount of uh, currency exchanged. For instance, if one household, you can exchange only five hundred dollars.

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If you have more than five hundred dollars, too bad, you cannot exchange. So everybody created equal, let’s put it that way, economic wise. So that really, obviously, is really making everybody poorly

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the same. Instead of promoting going forward, you drag everybody down the same. So it really creates poverty, everybody is the same level of poverty.

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Therefore, I saw that when as I grew up, and when my dad was released, we were managed to escape from Vietnam, because my, because my dad involved like any other people in serving South Vietnamese

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military you are labeled as the children of the enemy, because of the involvement of the American during the war. So you collaborate, so under their eye, you’re collaborating with the American.

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Therefore, we are the children of enemy. Therefore, we cannot advance educational-wise. For example, my oldest brother was 15 years old at that time, and he was already prepared to join

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the military, not able to advance his education, therefore, we must, um… My parent thought about, you know, how to escape. So we did several times, and each time, I sort

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of know that we were trying to leave. When I was 10 years old, the time when I was captured, but it’s just not known what’s outside of Vietnam, what’s outside of Da Nang.

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I’ve never been outside Da Nang and Saigon, I’ve never been anywhere else during that time, so. So when I was 10, we were a… we did not make the escape, so I was in prison with my three younger

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siblings. So we were in jail for like, let’s say, two weeks, and it seemed like forever because mainly they wanted to capture to make sure… We were children at that time. They not—they supposed not to keep us,

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but I guess they kept us because they wanted my parents to pay. Um, and then we were able to be released after they paid. I don’t know how much, but they did pay for us to be released from jail

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that time. So I sort of go through all of that, so I knew how it was difficult growing up in Vietnam. Then when I was 14 years old, finally able to make—um, to escape from Vietnam to,

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with um, my… My dad took five of the older children with him on the boat with all the people you pay to… You pay everything in gold. Because the

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Vietnamese currency at that time, even nowadays, doesn’t mean anything much. Therefore, it has to be paid in gold. And you pay that amount to escape to be… to the organizator to get your boat.

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Because we were in city, you’re owning a boat, at that time, signaling a red flag to the government that you are trying to escape. So we have the other people who’s a fisherman. Then they’re allowed to have boats, and then

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you pay them the amount, they were able to arrange for you to get on that boat to escape. So we were able to get onto the boat. My mother and my youngest brother was left behind, just in case if we don’t make

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it, then she could try to get us out or uh so, at that time, when we make it, then we would never see her again with my youngest brother.

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So my dad took five of us with him. Our boat has uh 25—35 people, crammed into that little boat to escape from Da Nang to Hong Kong in 1981, in the summer of 1981.

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So it took us six days to get to Hong Kong. And from there, we stayed in the refugee camp for six months, and we were lucky that my dad served in the South Vietnamese

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Navy. Therefore, he still have his serial military number. They were able to confirm that from their database, so we were granted political refugee because we are persecuted by the government and where the

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place—where you came from. Therefore, we were able to uh stay in Hong Kong, the refugee camp, for six months, which is very lucky. That’s the shortest stay.

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Most other people stay at least for a year, two or three years, because you have no other country to accept you as refugees. Therefore, you’re just stuck in the camp.

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So we were very lucky that we were able to come to the United States in 1982. So that’s my childhood from Vietnam. And did you make the desi—or did your family make the

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decision to come to Houston? Or was that just kind of assigned? No. That was assigned, because we had no relatives in the United States at that time, so the nonprofit

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organization, is called USCC, a Vietnamese Catholic organization formed by several people who have left Vietnam in 1975. They were able to escape at that time, airlift or left the country a

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few days after the collapse of the Saigon government. Therefore, when they came here already, they established this nonprofit organization and sponsored us in their base in Houston,

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Texas. That’s how we got sponsored to come to Houston and I stayed here since then. So when did your mother and youngest brother come and join you? Yes, after we left, of course, she did not know about us,

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how we were doing until at least two or three weeks later when we arrived to Hong Kong, um, was able to get settled in the refugee camps. Then my dad would wire… would wire

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that we are—at that time, he says we arrived, and we’re okay, some secret message I guess my parents talked to each of them to signal that we were safe, we were safe to

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Hong Kong already. And we had no correspondence with her at all for three years, until she escaped from Vietnam, on a boat too, with my youngest brother. They made to Hong Kong, and Hong Kong refugee

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camp closed at that time. After we arrived in 1981, those are the peaks, uh, years of the boat people. So the Southeastern countries like um Thailand,

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Philippines, Indonesia, um, the uh, Malaysia. Those countries, they are just overwhelmed with the number of people leaving Vietnam at that time on boats, so they closed all their borders, and whoever would come, they would push

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out or a screening process, to make sure you’re not leaving, and you—make sure that you’re just going because of political reason, and not economic reason.

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Therefore they have a screening process. So my mother arrived to Hong Kong after the border, you know, the refugee acceptance closed, it’s a closed—they closed their border.

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Therefore, she went through the screening process in ‘84. Um, the bord—I think Hong Kong made decision to close its border like in ‘83, so she came in ‘84. She passed the screening process because we

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were in the United States, and also my dad was in the military, and she was in… When she escaped with us, when I was 10 years old, she was in prison at that time too. Therefore, she passed the screening process, they transferred her to Malay—to Philippines,

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where she stayed for nearly a year. So in ‘85, she uh, she united with us in Houston. Um, and you said you have five siblings.

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What was your kind of relationship with them? Oh, they are… I guess growing up with five boys. I’m the only girl in the family. When we escaped from Vietnam to Hong Kong, I was the only girl,

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so my duty was to cook for the whole family. So that was the first time I would do all the cooking stuff, so I managed four of them very well I guess, keep them in line and when we

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came to the United States, I remember we share two bedroom apartment with two other family. So 10 was crammed into two bedroom apartment. It’s just because um, because of our financial reason.

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So I cooked for the other two families to make some money, until my mother came, then we moved out to a two bedroom apartment ourselves. So but uh, my dad I

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remember had to work two jobs to support us. So did you have—were your brothers older than you ? Yeah, I’m in the middle. I have two older brothers and three younger brothers.

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Okay. And what did your father do like when he was in the United States? He initially um, was do—like he was, I call handyman, so he sort of know all kinds of stuff around. So he would work on construction, plumber, electrician.

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Because he was in the navy. He was more of a technical person in the navy rather than fighting. Therefore he saw—so he know to work people .

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When we just came to the United States, two weeks, he got offered a job. I remember as uh, at one of the auto shops, so he would know how to uh you know repair all the cars, all of that.

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So after that, he got offered plumber, and construction, and so finally, he worked at a grocery store as a butcher. And the grocery store, he worked there for like two years to learn how to do business

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in the United States. But then one of the times, the store got robbed, so he was gun pointed at one point. So he said, what would

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happen to me if I die today, who’s gonna take care of the kids? So he quit the job. So he went back to construction. And he would manage to go to HCC at night to earn his AC repair

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technician certificate. At that time, we really admired him, because when he grew up he learned French. As coming to America, English was totally new to him when he was 45 years old, at that time

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already… 45 years old, with a new language he have no idea. But I guess good for him is math and all electrical, wire are universal language.

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Therefore, he just—he looked at the diagram, he know what to do. So that’s how he passed his AC certificate, technician certificate, and was able to get a job for the City of Houston, where he worked

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for more than 10 years, until—I think he worked there for nearly twenty years and retired from that. Then of course, when my mother came, that’s another income for family, yeah. So you said um your first job that you had was

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working kind of as a tailor with your mother? How’s that experience? Yeah, I remember I was 16, 17 years old that time in high school, when my mother arrived in the

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United States. Of course, she was a businesswoman in Vietnam, so… and when you escaped you had nothing left except for a pair of clothes. So, could not bring anything with her, and we had to start from

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scratch. So we would save money to buy a commercial tailor machine, that sewing machine, she would sew. That time I remember in ‘85, ‘86, in Houston, there was people from refugee—Vietnamese refugee

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would uh you know, would tell you, like pass on their experience with you, and show you what you can get, work like this. And so she would bring home all the

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material that’s already cut and all we do was sewing the clothes together. So I helped my mom doing that and showing her how to use that. So after school, I would sew with her.

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So I still today have that skill, but I don’t know how to design clothes. If you design it, I can put it together in one piece. So you talked a little bit about how you helped out your mother like while you were going to school,

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so how would you describe kind of your schooling in Houston? I came here, started at eighth grade for… three months, less than three months. I came here in February when we get in ‘82, we

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got our paperwork, like a month later, I guess, and we started school. In Vietnam, I had—I finished eighth grade already. So I came to the United States at that time, so they

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repeated for me eighth grade, because we almost like in the summer already because we started in March. So I remember I went to Lanier Middle School. And um so we studied for like, I guess two or three

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months and then summer and then I was moved to high school and started at—we moved that time to Milby High School, so it’s in the ship channel area. So that’s where I started ninth grade, fully ninth grade, in that—after that summer.

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So the experience was scary, because of course, I learn a little bit English but not enough to do any conversation with anybody. Uh so I was a scared, just a teenager thrown in a new environment.

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I learned English as second language in Vietnam and I was lucky. Because during that time, at school, they mainly teach you Russian, because of communism. My parents planned ahead of

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time. I guess they were thinking one day we gonna make to escape from Vietnam and go to America, so the kids need to learn English. So they hired a private tutor for us to learn English. Therefore, you have no

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way to practice your English at all. Remember you learn English secretly too. So there’s no way to practice your English. So I couldn’t talk anything.

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But I would know how to conjugate verbs and all of that. Grammar is okay, but I have no—I could not converse with anybody, so that was the hardest thing, is it was so quiet in the class.

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And I guess six, seven months later, I would pick up the English better, and then able to talk to people. But still the accent is still there.

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But it takes a while. And so several years later, was able to master it, I guess. Yeah. Did you have any favorite subjects, or favorite classes at school? I would say my favorite subject was math, because

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that—math in America was so easy at that time, and of course, you don’t need English to advance, you know to excel in math, so math was easy. Most of the time you repeated what you learned already.

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And also the language barrier is not there. My weakest one was history, and English, biology. Those were my weakest, because it required a lot of English skills. But math, chemistry and physics, no problem.

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Yes. And then, so, what university did you attend for your undergraduate degree? I went to University of Houston. And what was your experience like there?

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What was your major? I was majored in… Initially, I was undetermined, and then I changed—wasn’t determined until my junior year, because I was thinking maybe I go to pharmacy school,

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or… But then I didn’t like it, so finally in my junior, summer of junior, I decided to go to medical school. And of course, not knowing what I was heading to.

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Because at that time, I was in America for seven years, not knowing what medical school is. When I was young, my dream was… and my—always my best subject was

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math and physics. Therefore, I was hoping one day I would become a physicist, and astronaut. So I actually applied to A&M, having that in mind, my dream, but

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my parents say no, you stay home with us. You’re not going anywhere. All my other brothers, it’s the Vietnamese traditional way, is the girl stay home. So I stayed

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home. I went to the University of Houston, undetermined. But my other brothers were able to go to colleges outside of Houston. Uh so I—so that’s how I ended up undetermined.

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Until junior year, that summer, suddenly I don’t know why, but it just hit me, um, biology, I was able to master my English at that time, and the human physiology, all that really

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opened the world to me, and then I decided to go to medical school. And I was the first person in my family to go to medical school, not knowing what medical school in the United States is like.

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So I went to my counselor at that time, I say this is what I want, so what should I do? So he told me you need to take MCAT. And I say what is MCAT?

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So they showed me the way. And I remember I volunteer at Hermann. That time, the name was Hermann right at the Medical Center by Rice University, it was not named as Memorial

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Hermann. It was just Hermann. I went there to do my volunteer at the ER. And for like three weeks. I really like it, so I decided

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to pursue… that summer, I studied my MCAT and moved on. But I, at the ER, I realized that my Vietnamese skill is really needed, because they kept calling me for translation. Yes.

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And where did you go for medical school? Yeah, I went to Baylor Univers—Baylor College of Medicine. So currently, what do you do as a physician? And what area did you decide to specialize in?

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Yeah, I specialize in internal medicine. I went to medical school at Baylor College of Medicine from ‘91 to ‘95. And I did my residency there, from—to internal

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medicine, until ‘98. And I became a staff at Baylor—Baylor College of Medicine for ten years, until my younger brother finished his residency

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in medical s—his residency in family practice. Uh he then both joined to have this clinic, because I know how hard it is to be in solo practice because you need to break aw—a break from your job sometime.

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There’s no coverage. It’s very hard. Therefore I, both of us joined here, so this building actually belongs to my second brother who’s a orthodontist. Very proud of him.

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He went to Harvard University, and he opened this buil—uh, this business for… It’s family, kind of owned business, so I have all my brothers practice here. This building I will show you around.

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So I wait until uh, he had this building much before when I joined the practice, because I was waiting for my younger brother to finish training. So both of us came here, joined here, to have our clinic in

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I think 2009. So I’m still a volunteer physician, assistant professor, at Baylor College of Medicine. I volunteer to teach, to train medical students into

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residents, and nurse practitioners in nurse. They come to rotate with me. It’s a way to pay back to Baylor who was very um, very gracious to

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me, offered me scholarship when I joined them as a medical student. So it’s a way to pay back the school that has fostered you. Were your parents supportive of your educational and professional goals? Initially, not. Traditionally um, Asians—as you can see, I

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was the only girl in the family, I would not go outside of Houston. As you can see, all my life involved in Houston. I came here, did my residency, did my high school,

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undergraduate, medical school, training, becoming working here. So I have never been outside of Houston. And at that time, my brother… I was the first one to go to medical school, but my brother had already um, my second brother had already gone

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to dental school. Initially, they were thinking uh it was, of course, financially could we afford that? And secondly is, the time

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invested in school was too long. Not a traditional Vietnamese woman would go through. Therefore, my mother was still my—very traditional when she came to the United

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States. Therefore, I convinced them that it’s my dream, and I would pursue for it. And they say, well, whatever you do, make sure you stay in Houston for your school.

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So they say, well, we have two medical schools here, you better get in one of them. Otherwise, it’s out. So I worked my way hard to get a spot at Baylor College of Medicine, yes.

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So what are your favorite parts about being a physician? Favorite part is of course I am able to help people, and also, connect with people very easy. My… Especially here internal medicine, you practice nowadays, you

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can see it’s more of taking care of older people, whereas my brother’s practice is more for younger people. Whereas I have more older people, and I was able to communicate with them in Vietnamese fluently.

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So I connect with them more easily. And of course, the cultural gap, I understand, what they went, what they are going through, especially with their children and with them it’s a new world.

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Their children was raised here and have different thinking than them. So the cultural gap, you’re able to understand the cultural gap, so it helped them. Sometimes they came to me. It’s not more a physical problem.

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It’s mental problem. But they would not go see a psychiatrist. Because it’s not… Vietnam culture still very closed.

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And you can see these women and men went to reeducation camp, they go, they have PTSD, post-traumatic stress, but they would not recognize that. And you know the wives had to be at home

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taking care of the children and visiting her husband in reeducation camp, and you’re talking about ten years long. And it’s not easy like here, we just hop on a car and you just drive there.

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In Vietnam, during that time, visiting the husband, well you live in the South, the husband would be in concentration camp in the North, okay? There’s no flight. People cannot afford money to even fly if there’s

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a flight. So people would take a week to go from the South to the North to visit their husband. It’s—the distance is not long. It’s like from here to El Paso.

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But you’re talking about that week of going through all the hurdles to get to visit the husband and when they come to the camp, the visitation is not granted. Then you, so those, um, they become depressed, all

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of that sitting in themselves but they, they will not have time to, to really think about their mentally, their mental illness but it’s because the hardship already take, you know, all the time already so until

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now when they come to America, it’s a lot, it’s easier. Then the family becomes uh, a more of problem then, um, “how come I

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sacrifice all of this and this is what I get?” You see my point? All of this hardship, and now the husband becomes strange to the wife or the children not listen to the parents or the, it’s not because—it’s more a

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culture gap rather than disobedience. But to the, to the elderly, you become dis—disobey. So it’s the culture, mainly it’s the mental illness and that, you have to come from that culture

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understand what they went through, the history of Vietnam. And I think when I, my younger medical students, they rotate through here, every year I will take one to two medical students from the Baylor

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College of Medicine to rotate with me for the whole year. They learn the Vietnamese through here and they learn what the Vietnamese people had to go through that they don’t see that… at the American

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institution. And they appreciate that because they would not understand, how come—they keep asking me, “How come the Vietnamese people have very low understanding of, uh, of the basic needs, like the

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basic medicine knowledge?” I say, “Because in Vietnam, you don’t need to see a doctor until you have acute problem. Then you see a doctor.” They don't believe in prevention. Or they just go to the pharmacy,

00:34:36.750 - 00:34:45.050

and anybody can have a pharmacy in Vietnam. You don’t need to have a license. You say, “I need this, this.” I guess you do the same way you go to Mexico.

00:34:46.290 - 00:34:58.040

You know, it’s there. It’s like over-the-counter medicine. Whatever you want is over-the-counter. Uh, therefore, there they don’t feel the need for that, and they don’t understand. Your job is to educate

00:35:02.010 - 00:35:14.030

them. Um, did you have any challenges that you faced as a doctor? Either while, like, in training, like while you were in school, or as an actual physician. No, I don’t see much of um, a challenge except for…

00:35:15.550 - 00:35:30.940

one, uh, before I choose to be an internal medicine doctor, I wanted to become a surgeon. And I remember I did my re—my training with Dr. Michael DeBakey, the famous Michael DeBakey, um,

00:35:31.680 - 00:35:50.190

to, so that I hopefully want—I would be able to get in to become a surgeon. But physically, I was, I not taking the challenge well. I actually was so tired being on call so much, and working so much so I finally

00:35:50.190 - 00:36:04.360

changed my mind and going to go into internal medicine. So that was, um, a challenge that the physical challenge, it was so hard to go through that training. Now, of course, with the new rule from

00:36:04.360 - 00:36:16.610

Congress, Congress actually passed a law that you cannot make a resident work more than 80 hours. But that time, we would be, before that time. Um, so we

00:36:16.680 - 00:36:32.730

were able—we worked very hard for a whole week. Now is, you cannot work more than 80 hours per week. So that limitation really make you fully, your body fully recover. Um, do you have kind of a typical

00:36:33.250 - 00:36:51.050

schedule for like, during your weeks and your months? Yes, a typical schedule would be I’m here, 7 o’clock, uh I work until most of the time 7. I will be the first one to come here and the last one to leave here.

00:36:51.910 - 00:37:10.660

Uh, so that’s my schedule every day. And I work every other Saturday too to accommodate some of my patients who um, don’t know how to drive. They rely on their children to take them to see a physician, to see a doctor.

00:37:10.880 - 00:37:25.300

So, um, that is mostly the elderly. They rely on their children to take them on the weekends when the children are off of work. Uh, so I work here every other Saturday too to accommodate that.

00:37:28.430 - 00:37:47.840

Through your experience, how do you think you have grown or changed as a physician? Umm. I think I would change, is I appreciate life much more than just work, work, work. So, and that’s because I have seen the fragile part.

00:37:47.940 - 00:38:03.150

Like I would say that because being young doesn’t mean that you’re exempt from illness and that’s really um, the lesson that I’ve learned through the years. So that’s why even with a busy schedule, I want to

00:38:03.310 - 00:38:16.110

do whatever I feel I can contribute rather than wait when I have more time and then I die. Because my thinking, “what if I never grow old?” So that’s why

00:38:20.510 - 00:38:38.620

in ’98 after I finished residency, um, come working so that I have more time, more control of your schedule more, I joined the… the Vietnam human rights council, uh for Vietnam, it’s to advocate for uh,

00:38:41.020 - 00:38:56.130

prisoners of conscience from Vietnam. Of course, these are, um, I think it touched me, it really, um getting to me is 1995 when um, I finished medical school here.

00:38:56.740 - 00:39:09.200

I finished ahead of time, so we don’t grad—we didn’t graduate until May, um, and then start your residency in June, July. I finished my studies

00:39:09.200 - 00:39:29.300

in February so I had 3 months off uh, before I will start graduation and residency, so I went to Vietnam, myself, to visit my grandparents. In that time, really, I went to see my childhood

00:39:29.850 - 00:39:42.080

friend to see how fortunate I was. Even when I went through all the hardships of you know, escape from Vietnam and I was on the boat for 6 days with only one meal.

00:39:42.530 - 00:39:56.870

We actually starved. Every day you were given like one or two ounces of water for the whole day. And I still, I went to Vietnam and I appreciate

00:39:58.450 - 00:40:12.180

uh, not to take things for granted, especially your freedom. I appreciate America more. And I, I because I witness what my friends, they are fine, however

00:40:13.410 - 00:40:30.690

their minds in the shell being controlled. They don’t have the freedom to think. Whenever I say something to them you know, “Vietnam is falling back,” they say, “Don't say that, shh.” The police are watching us, you know.

00:40:31.590 - 00:40:47.110

So I say, you know, even saying have just your opinion, and your in good-faith opinion, and still you’re worried that somebody gonna listen to you and harass you. So and I, that’s the freedom of

00:40:47.360 - 00:40:59.910

expression and freedom of speech you don’t have in Vietnam and that’s why I, I become more appreciate of what we have in America. So when I came back

00:41:00.260 - 00:41:14.520

to America, um, I was saying to myself, “I don’t know if I’m gonna do anything to change Vietnam, at least I made a contribution.” So that’s how I become involved, and we go to the United Nations every

00:41:14.590 - 00:41:31.670

year to advocate for the release of prisoners of conscience and I will join every year, uh, with uh, other colleagues, who lobby at Congress. And we’re, through these 20 years of course we’ve made a lot of

00:41:31.720 - 00:41:48.710

progress, have more a relationship with our congressman and they understand more the problem of Vietnam and even though Vietnam is more opening now since 1990, but still it’s closed, political closed,

00:41:49.560 - 00:42:01.260

political uh… rule. It’s one-party rule. It’s like China, exactly like China. Economically, you, they let

00:42:01.330 - 00:42:14.920

people to grow but politically they still one-party control. The state owns all the media. And that’s the reason why Vietnam last year passed the law to control the

00:42:15.030 - 00:42:29.610

internet. Because now, because once Internet is there, people have their own opinion because before you want to publish anything, you have to go through the government approval. Now the Internet, everybody can become a blogger, a writer,

00:42:30.390 - 00:42:44.280

voice your opinion… block all of that. So the way to control it is to pass the national security law on the Internet that requires Facebook, YouTube, Google have their base in Vietnam.

00:42:45.060 - 00:43:03.580

Have their server in Vietnam, so they—literally in Vietnam, you go to the café internet, you log on with your real name. They know if you voice something, you know—who’s that person… that have opinion that will consider as a

00:43:03.580 - 00:43:19.690

threat to the government. I myself have gone to China three years ago and… I was surprised I could not log on Google, or Facebook. Those are banned in China.

00:43:20.080 - 00:43:29.590

The same thing in Vietnam. The Vietnam, they allow Facebook, they allow Google, but the national law last year passed is to make the Google and

00:43:30.360 - 00:43:46.480

Facebook and all, and YouTube have their surname there so that they can filter you more. So that’s what really is, um… make me so appreciate the freedom we’ve got here.

00:43:46.480 - 00:44:02.470

And my, even my children they have gone to Vietnam. My oldest son even says that he appreciates uh, America so um… It really uh, the trip in 1995 back to Vietnam really the turning point that

00:44:03.310 - 00:44:19.700

I will devote more of my time really, just being a physician taking care of patients but to, to I’ll be involved more in the community and the homeland, yes. So you said that for your other activities, you are also involved—involved in

00:44:19.760 - 00:44:32.620

several Vietnamese cultural organizations in Houston like the Vietnamese Culture and Science Association and the Khai Tri Academy. So what’s kind of your role there? In Khai Tri Academy, I will teach the Vietnamese language to kindergarten.

00:44:33.660 - 00:44:50.090

I’m… be there for five years of school four, five years ago, my husband was one of the, uh… founder of the school. So um… we would teach uh, Vietnamese language and culture to young.

00:44:50.860 - 00:45:06.460

So the school now is uh 150 students. So it go every Sunday from 9 o’clock until 12. Uh, nine months out of year according to HISD schedule so we,

00:45:06.460 - 00:45:21.160

because we uh, based at the one of the um high school um, of HISD. And then the Vietnamese Culture and Science I’ve been involved for more than twenty years. Um, there is mainly developing youth.

00:45:21.160 - 00:45:39.100

You’ll find um, the connection uh, with their, your heritage. So we uh will form um… Camp Lên Dường. When I was younger, um, I was one of the organizers of the Camp Lên Dường but

00:45:39.240 - 00:45:48.810

now mainly my role is supporting financially and let the others, your generation, to run the camp. So the camp has been

00:45:48.810 - 00:46:03.400

successful for twenty years. It’s an annual, um a yearly event a different city um, in uh, United States and we have some camps in Toronto and Vancouver and that would attract

00:46:04.560 - 00:46:20.100

200 to 250 campers mainly from the United States and Canada. But sometimes we have people from Vietnam that would join for from year. And it’s a three-day camp of

00:46:20.170 - 00:46:34.700

leadership training, uh, and it is mainly to get young people to involve in the community. So why do you think cultural education for children is very important?

00:46:35.310 - 00:46:52.530

Because for me, they need to uh know their roots. Um, and I’m proud that my children are fluent in Vietnamese. My youngest son who’s 18 now is helping me, he’s a TA for my class teaching um, the

00:46:52.840 - 00:47:14.040

kindergarten. I think it’s the language, if they lose the language and their uh, culture identity, then the… their… appreciation um, for um, the identity. They have to have an identity um, because United States is,

00:47:14.310 - 00:47:30.610

even though we are Americans, but we’re um Vietnamese American and I have my um, culture that I embrace and would like to continue because I guess America grow, become strong because we

00:47:30.610 - 00:47:42.470

collectively have everybody come as a melting pot. You have so many people from different cultures contributing to this country. So you don’t want to lose your own identity and language and culture are the

00:47:42.470 - 00:47:53.900

most important things to identify yourself, yes. Um, so the last few questions are a little bit more personal. So you said you have two children right now. One’s 18 and how old was the…?

00:47:54.120 - 00:48:06.150

15 years old. Okay. Um, and they’re still with you here in Houston? Yes. Mhm. Do they know what they want to do when they are older or…? I don’t know yet. Uh my son, he wants to go to medical school.

00:48:06.870 - 00:48:20.640

I—though he’s actually, got accepted to Baylor University so he will go there. And my daughter, um, is still a ninth grader at the Village School so she doesn’t know what she wants to do yet.

00:48:20.640 - 00:48:36.990

But um, she’s a very good artist. Uh, when she was 12 years old, she um, one time she painted eight paints, eight paintings that were able to auction

00:48:37.170 - 00:48:55.250

at St. John High School so we, she sold all her paintings um at that exhibit and donated to um… YMCA International to build a school in Vietnam herself,

00:48:57.460 - 00:49:12.250

yeah. So we involved in a lot of charity to YMCA. We contribute every year. YMCA have been very good um in reach out to the, to the uh Vietnam in the rural

00:49:12.340 - 00:49:27.040

areas to build schools and I think education uh, is key to unlock a lot of the um, to—of course it brings people out of poverty and also to um, foster their

00:49:28.890 - 00:49:47.500

mind and also to open up their minds and maybe to make a change in Vietnam from intellect. And people have to understand in this life, they uh, under the Vietnam constitution, you have the right to protest, the right

00:49:47.590 - 00:49:59.840

to a opinion to yourself. So there are rights in the Vietnam constitution but to implement that, that’s a different story. And that’s the reason probably

00:49:59.950 - 00:50:16.110

you’ll all be aware, last year, there was Will Nguyen, William Nguyen, who was a Harv—Yale graduate, went to Vietnam to join a protest and he was imprisoned there for a whole month. And it took sixteen US

00:50:16.170 - 00:50:32.300

congressmen and two senators to write letters to our Secretary of State to press Vietnam’s government to release him. It was a well-known case and Yale University did put a,

00:50:33.850 - 00:50:49.770

raised their voice also so, that’s even so my thing is the rule there apply to everybody. Just imagine you are a US citizen and you—and that’s imposed on you.

00:50:50.000 - 00:51:07.090

So just imagine the people in Vietnam have no voice. Nobody would push for their release. Nobody would um, advocate for them. So through my work, we were able to get um, some, a few

00:51:07.430 - 00:51:26.290

of the high profile dissidents to come to the United States and last year there was a very famous blogger. She was named in Time Magazine as the woman of the year. Uh, she come to United States directly from

00:51:26.360 - 00:51:40.600

prison. She was Mother Mushroom, and that’s her nickname as a blogger. She came straight from prison with her—to Houston. And that is through collaborative work of a lot of people, a lot of

00:51:40.640 - 00:51:54.680

organizations. American, Vietnamese, and U—and um, Europe to be able to pressure the Vietnamese government to release her. Um, so do you have any goals or aspirations like for the future?

00:51:54.710 - 00:52:06.530

In terms of professionally or like the activities you’re involved in? So I hope um… one, one day to see change in Vietnam for democracy, of course.

00:52:06.970 - 00:52:20.790

And that’s a goal um, we all hope for. Of course we want to change peacefully and not to create any war because Vietnam had to endure war after war and I think it’s

00:52:21.080 - 00:52:37.330

time to heal but people have to um, have a word in their governments and the way to do it is through peaceful transitions. And that requires … a lot of education.

00:52:38.620 - 00:53:00.190

So um, so that I hope that uh, Vietnam will be open more and more accepting to different opinions. So you mentioned that before you went to your residency you visited some of your friends back in Vietnam. Could you describe like what their lives were like back then?

00:53:01.300 - 00:53:15.320

There was um, life for instance one of my good friends from childhood, he’s um, he was a doctor at that time too. He graduated from uh, the medical school in Hanoi .

00:53:15.320 - 00:53:26.920

And I was saying, “well I told you I would come to visit you if I was in Danang.” And Hanoi was like maybe two hours um train from Vietnam, uh from Danang.

00:53:27.720 - 00:53:42.750

So I told him, “I wrote to you that I would come to visit you.” You don’t have to come to Danang because I know that time he had to take his exam also, final exam. He said “Don’t worry, I bought my exam already.” I said “What?!

00:53:43.590 - 00:54:00.190

You bought your exam?!” He said, “Yep.” You actually can buy your own exam. So that’s the things that really… make me think “Is this what kind of education you provide to your …

00:54:02.830 - 00:54:20.650

to the future of Vietnam?” So that really make you think uh, so I asked him, “Besides you, anybody can buy an exam?” He said, “Yes.” So I asked him, “How do you know how to examine a patient and um, the all the different—different

00:54:21.740 - 00:54:37.970

diagnoses the patient have?” He said, “No I don’t need that. I just want to sell medicine.” So that really… what I ever want and I’m not blaming him, is the

00:54:38.100 - 00:54:54.090

culture that produce doctors that, and he’s not the only one, you produce your product, and that kind of product, you think Vietnam will go anywhere? So it’s really um,

00:54:55.030 - 00:55:08.800

make me feel so fortunate. If I’m staying in Vietnam, I would be like him too. There’s no difference because we come from the same class, we go through the same education. It’s just fortunate that I left

00:55:09.090 - 00:55:29.080

Vietnam and start my life in America where you know, you get a better education and the education here is I would say it’s not 100% perfect but it is make sure you um, when you produce

00:55:30.120 - 00:55:45.980

that your product is the crops of the cream. You made sure that they are truly and not your diploma had been bought. Also what are some of the changes that you have seen in Vietnam over the years?

00:55:46.790 - 00:56:03.390

I would say, um, of course since 1995 I have not been back to Vietnam but um, some of my patients and of course my relatives, even my children actually have been travelling back and forth because uh my

00:56:03.530 - 00:56:15.320

husband still have his sisters in Vietnam and his mom is actually now in Vietnam. Therefore, they travel back and forth a lot. They say it’s a lot of change.

00:56:16.540 - 00:56:32.870

Economic-wise it’s more um, higher standards uh, the… people are able to um, much better life than when I was in Vietnam. But political, it’s still in a

00:56:33.110 - 00:56:51.980

nutshell, it’s still very closed. My husband says, you know, he got, everywhere they went. Like for instance, nowadays, in Vietnam, as a foreigner, when you come to check into the hotel, you have to leave

00:56:52.120 - 00:57:07.420

your passport there. Okay? So if you make any political um… opinions, something that the government feels is a threat, you may not leave.

00:57:09.810 - 00:57:26.330

So that is, he says that when I came there, yes, that’s what happened. But my husband says that if you go to the big cities now, they just make a copy of your passport and may not keep it but if you go to the countryside, they do keep your passport if you

00:57:27.000 - 00:57:37.830

stay in that hotel for three nights, your passport is there for three nights. Until you move on, they will ask you where you move next. So they track where you are.

00:57:39.740 - 00:57:55.630

So that’s a um, so that’s a way to really track people and monitoring um, at every corner . So that’s what I did not like when I came in 1995. I have not been back.

00:57:58.740 - 00:58:12.010

Also you mentioned that knowing the roots is very important uh, and you want like your children to understand that also. So why is like knowing the identity of being a Vietnamese

00:58:12.080 - 00:58:26.480

American good? Like, what are some of the goods that coming out of the knowing that roots and knowing that identity? Yeah I think it’s important because of course knowing um, several language

00:58:27.760 - 00:58:40.790

will uh advance you in job opportunity and that’s true whether you learn Chinese, Spanish, Vietnamese. Of course, Vietnamese is more limited, but if you know Chinese or Spanish, I

00:58:40.900 - 00:58:54.600

think in America now it’s have a global economy. So knowing language is very good for your job opportunities so I encourage anybody the more languages you speak, the more opportunities there are going to be for jobs.

00:58:55.690 - 00:59:11.590

So that’s ... I guess the culture and the identity is important because you want to, I want my children to understand that they don’t come here, they’re not here because of you know, no reason.

00:59:12.180 - 00:59:28.840

They come here because there is a reason and they need to understand how that root of why we came. So it’s more of um, community identity and what happens in 1975 is because history

00:59:29.700 - 00:59:47.090

can be taught in different ways from different perspectives. They, for instance, my daughter one time came home and said, “I learned, um, in history class, Vietnam has a

00:59:47.190 - 01:00:01.480

different flag and why when we go to community there’s a different flag?” Right? To a child, there will be confusion and when we go to community here how come we see the yellow flag with three stripes but in textbooks,

01:00:01.710 - 01:00:12.960

they give us a different flag? So you have to explain why. So I explained to my daughter and that is I hope she brings to the children in the school, you know the red—the

01:00:13.870 - 01:00:29.440

yellow flag with three stripes is your heritage flag and its recognized by the state of Texas as our heritage flag. And yes, the red flag you see in textbooks or when you Google, that’s the official Vietnam

01:00:30.860 - 01:00:47.940

flag and you may identify with it or may not depends on your view. But that is a different flag that represents different identity, yes. Finally, what are some Vietnamese cultures that you want to preserve or you want to

01:00:47.940 - 01:01:03.140

pass on to your children? I want to pass on is the language and also the family relationships. Um… I guess in Asian culture in general we’re more a family oriented.

01:01:03.680 - 01:01:18.270

The family units first is more of an individual um, like say in American culture. So I want to preserve that they need to know, you know, there is extended family not

01:01:18.320 - 01:01:33.760

just self, so I say when you make a fall, who’s gonna help you? Your friends and your family. So we have to value and appreciate that. So… that’s what I want to really, the good thing

01:01:34.050 - 01:01:47.550

about the Vietnamese is the family orientation. Oriented unit, you work as a unit. What are some of the differences of the Vietnamese view of family relations and the American view

01:01:47.670 - 01:02:03.080

of family relations, in your eyes? I guess because the American culture of course is more individualist as you become independent. Like I see my children, they want their independence as they get

01:02:03.160 - 01:02:19.190

older and turn 18. So I told my son, “You can go to college you choose, but at least be close so I can come to visit you sometime. When I have time to go, I want to visit you too.” But I would like him to be

01:02:19.190 - 01:02:35.670

independent. So like he will say, “Why is my friend can—able to go and I cannot go?” And I say, “No you can and I want you to go to grow up and yourself and you have your own um… mature thoughts and

01:02:35.670 - 01:02:52.290

take care of yourself.” And I think um, the traditional Vietnamese culture is more the elderly says… the authority of the household that will be the right, and that’s what I don't like about our culture.

01:02:53.230 - 01:03:08.240

The kids sometimes are right; for instance, sometimes I have to ask my children to help me with the internet and slides sometimes because they’re very good at that. So I think we have to balance out,

01:03:08.440 - 01:03:21.780

need to take the good of both and hopefully help them to become better person. I think that’s all unless you have anything to add that we didn’t ask. No, no. Thank you so much.