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Okay. Today is May 17th, 2023. My name is Gina Matos and I'm with the Houston Asian American Archive interviewing Tiffany H-Heng-Hui Lee. Thank you for taking time out of your schedule to do this interview with us today.

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Oh, thank you for inviting me. It's a great honor [laughs]. Great. So, we can just go ahead and get into the first question. If you can tell us when and where were you born?

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I think we get cut off a little bit. No worries, my apologies. The first question is: when and where were you born? Oh. I was born in Taiwan, Taipei.

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And you asked me when and where, right? Okay, so that was many years ago, 19—1962. You know, many years ago [laughs]. What was it like growing up in Taipei, Taiwan?

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Well, you know, Taiwan got its name—given by Portuguese people, meaning "Formosa." It means "beautiful island." So island really is a very beautiful place. Have a distinct four season.

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So, it got beautiful place s-and season is wonderful and transportation is good. You can go everywhere, hop on the, you know, metro bus everywhere. And it's–it's very colorful, you know, and I think that kind of

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related to my artwork too. Everything's colorful because everything's come only from nature, all the stuff. So, have a great time, stay in Taiwan for 18 years, you know? So, i-it was—it was great, so...

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Who are your parents? What were your parents' occupations? And if in any way, how did it influence your upbringing? My–my father's—worked in textile

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business. And my mother also worked in the textile as well too, and that's how they both met. And he worked his way up to the–the manager and the-then later on become the

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textile manufacturer vice president. And then, later on he owned the second largest textile business in Taiwan. And then so...as a result, every day wh-what we see is textile, you know.

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A-and then we visit the loom all the time to see how all the, you know, weaving take place. So, pretty much take place when I was kid, see all this stuff. So and then...

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that is kind of pretty much what my parent does. And that's where they met each other as well. You also mentioned that you have three siblings. So do you have any memory—memorable stories with them that you would like to share?

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Yeah, I have one brother and then sister and a youngest brother, and we are pretty much two years apart. So we pretty much kind of do things together, play th-thing together, discover things together. And we also fight as well too, you know how it's been—yeah.

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Anyway, you know, because we have very strong opinion. And I think that's a part of upgrowing that my parents allow us to have our own opinion, but with a very strict rule. Like we also have to follow certain things, things like that.

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We do—like, we would do a science project together and then we would say, "Oh, let's build it together." So we will find things around the house or even nearby the park and build things together. And we are very into science project and we are constantly won (?) All kind of science

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project. I think that is mainly because we had a—my parents allowed us to discover things, you know, we just kind of—nothing can be—never say, "Oh, this is impossible." We always say, "Well, what–what do we try—what–what–what if we try this material?" What we try this—what we can make out of something, you know.

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So— but also at the same time, you can imagine how messy the house is, you know? So, anyway, so y-yeah, it's building project together and–and discover things together. It's always fun and I think in a sense it-it—it-its make us be more

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creative because you do a lot of things through doing things and learning things, things like that. Anyway... You briefly mentioned this in that answer.

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So just going off of that, what values did your parents instill in you and your siblings growing up? Well, my family is coming from a Buddhist family. So, not only we have a Chinese tradition, but it's

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follow very strongly Buddhist, you know. And Buddhists taught us that be kind, you know, be nice, you know, because whatever you do is–is—it will have result of the effect on that, you know.

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And what we have this life is pretty much what we done the previous life. And–and then reincarnation whatsoever, you know. And also loving another mankind or–or animal whatsoever, it's very important. And respect the elder, which is part of c-culture as well too, but it's very,

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very strict. So like every holiday we celebrate pretty much. And also visit my grandparents is the key thing no matter what. As well as the...knowing what holiday represent.

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And we actually do the ritual of each ceremony as well too. And because that's very important for them a-and that's what they believing. So as a result, they also taught us

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to follow that at the same time, you know. So, I think in a way it's good because coming to America right now, all the holiday that we know—most people know is a Chinese lunar c-calendar for the Chinese New Year.

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But a lot of time we forget other holiday, you know. Not Lunar festival, Dragon Boat, which we kind of celebrate over here. But this is elders days. You know, we also have the–the day for the liberation, the day for the

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great—for the respect the–the–the f-folks passed away, you know, those holidays. And those holidays is very essential because it tie into the four season as well too. And I think those holiday doesn't get celebrate as

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much in United States because this is United States, you know. A-and for a newer generation, those who, you know, first or second immigrant Chinese kids, I think those cultures kind of getting thinner, thinner, and then some of it don't even know what it's about.

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I mean, they know, "Okay, we s-we eat this kind of food" but why we eat this particular food for this particular holiday? And I think it's important to have that to–to be continued. Because that's part of our DNA.

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We need to nurture it, you know? I mean, who–who wouldn't want to know who they are? I think this is very important, key element that, you know, know who we are, we respect that. And–and whether—how you want to go from there, and then tha-that's individual

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decision. But I think having that tradition very strict at home, even though we are over here, I think it brought back to a lot of good cultural and also memory. And I was able to taught my daughter in the same way as well too. So...

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I see. Did you have any notable mentors in your life? It can be family, it doesn't have to be family... Yeah. It's just a couple. Like when I was a kid—well, according to my parents, when I

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was three years old, they asked me where I want to go to kindergarten. And apparently they–they say that I told them I want to go to a city with my grandparents, which I was kind of, "Why would three year old want to live with the grandparents?" But anyway, so, apparently that's what I say, and they–they send me

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to Taipei instead—my parents house is in–in the outskirts of the Taipei. It's in the city side because the factory, you know, they had to work over there. And then—so therefore I live in—I had to go with my grandparents, live in city. And during those year, especially 3

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to 5, I with my grandparents. So they taught me everything. A lot of things. Things like, you know, how to look at things like look at the—look at the flower, look at the nature, look at the sky, a-and, you know,

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preach about everything surrounding us. I remember real vivid that one time, someone gave me a flower. It was beautiful. And I looked at it, but within the couple seconds, it started wilting and I was crying

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real, real hard. And my grandmother told me, "No worry. Just put it in the water and then you will—it will come back alive, but it will not be very long." I said, "Well, how come?" I [She] said, "Because this flower is already

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taken away from its—the region, so therefore the life is very it's only short frame," you know. And also taught me the beauty of nature whatsoever that, you know, it's very, very short.

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So we gotta treasure that moment. And I think that treasure that moment a-and respect nature, it–it put a deep root as—when I was growing up, you know. And so I learned about nature, how see things and how to

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let go things as well too. And she told me that, "Pick up the flower, look through it, and look toward the sky. And you will see that this flower will live in your heart forever." And–and for a

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three year old, I don't think I can understand at that time. But I think now I look back at my life, I think those are important lesson. And–and so I learn a lot of things through my grandmother. And my grandfather taught me how to write the traditional calligraphy.

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And he's a very well known calligrapher in Taiwan. And so he taught me how to write those. And at that time, I'm thinking, "Ugh, what is this wiggly brush? A-and the black ink had to do with anything ?" But at the same time, it

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really had to do with everything. Because the calligraphy taught, especially for an Asian kid, in e-every s-stroke you take, the first stroke, it's heavy, and then in between it's light, and then in the end of the stroke, it's heavy again.

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So the beginning and the end, it's heavy, and it's in the middle, it's how you kind of wrote this paintbrush, things like that. So, those kind of things, I think, in a sense, it apply to everydays life, you know.

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And we're beginning with certain things and in between is how we make all of it. And then we journey coming back, back to the point we started, in the sense it's kind of like full circle. So I think they are related, very much. So that is my early childhood mentor.

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And I think when I was in middle school, I had one teacher and she just out of college. A-and she taught us the–the subjects, the Chinese, and I just love everything about it. And I b-before I come to America, I was like, "Okay, this is it.

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I want to be a Chinese teacher as well too ." Because she–she just taught us so much and she opened the world about Chinese philosophy and also the history and also how to write beautifully and also how to do things beautifully through the literature and without going

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through some brutal language that ex-express yourself in those and —and the–and the—this teacher up to this day, I've been coming to America more than four-forty plus years now, I'm still contact with her, and we talk to each other weekly, you know.

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And every time I visit Taiwan, I still want to visit her anyway. And–and also in America, in this case, I had my teacher, Richard Stout, he's a very famous painter in the United States, especially in Houston.

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Museum of Fine Art has his collection all the time and he taught at U of H, and that was my first year at U of H. Just got in, tried to take some basic class and then I've never done oil painting before.

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And so he taught us, and this–this instructor didn't talk very much because he wants you to see things, observing things. And–and–and so—and in—in the sense it's good because I barely can speak English at that time when I get to the college.

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So–so in the sense, I–I keep on watching him all the time, watching his stroke, all this stuff, and–and the—how he handle medium, all the stuff, you know. So he taught me a lot of things. And then right before he passed away, which was

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one month before the pandemic hit, 2020, we–we saw each other in the—in front of the Museum of Fine Art and—for one of the lecture. And at that time, we haven't seen each other for a while.

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And then from a distance I saw him and said, "Oh, that's Richard." And I tell myself, "Oh, I better not go to say hi, because I don't—I'm pretty sure he won't remember me by now," you know. And–and–and–and—he said, "Come over, come over ." I said, "Me?" And he said, "Yeah, you, come over." And we have a good chat.

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And–and he said, "What you been doing?" I said, "Oh, I've been working interior design." and he said, "Oh really?" He was kind of disappointed because he was hoping that I'm pursuing the fine art, like do a drawing or painting, things like that." Anyway, I said, "No, because when I was out of school,

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first job available is–is interior design business. So I t-took the job right away, you know." And he said, "Yeah, I understand." I [He] said, "Well, have you done any drawing lately?" I said, "Yeah, I've been working on lot of drawings because I have to drawing in order to present my idea to the client.

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He said, "Well, that's good." I said, "Oh, by the way, I got into Jung Center now. So I'm going to hit my first solo exhibition." And he said, "Oh, that's great, I–I will come," you know. And–and then—because he believed education as well

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as the life, drawing stuff, it's–it's continuing everydays life, things like that. And he also is the one sponsor—well a lot—of artists having their show at Jung Center many years ago.

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And then–then—so when he found out I got into Jung Center, he was pretty pleased. But unfortunately, he never able to attend my solo exhibition at Jung Center because he passed away during the COVID, things like that. So those are three different set of people that is

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important in my life because they are—they–they taught me a lot of life lessons as well as the cultural, as well as the—for me to understand what life and art and science, how they combine together. So...

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Thank you for such a detailed and comprehensive answer. It's so interesting knowing that now that you're an interior designer and an artist and it's pretty clear that they obviously affected who you are and your work. So, it was very interesting to hear.

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Moving forward more into education. Kind of going back, assumably you attended primary and secondary school in Taipei [THHL: Mhm.] So I wanted to ask: what was the education system like in Taipei?

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Well, education system in Taiwan is—in a sense it's more like, okay, test after test after test. I-It's almost become memorization. So if you're capable of memorize everything, then you can ace out on everything.

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Because every level you have to test in. S-so the education is like, okay, if you go to your first–first year of–of–of the elementary school, you had to test in. Okay.

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And then once you test in, you got tested in again whether you can get into the second level. So–so constantly never ending testing. And then once you-you're done with your elementary school, middle school and then high school, every

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stage you test, test, test, test in order to get into the next level. Before you go to college, you have a—it called an internal exam-examination for the whole nation. And it take place two day, July 1st and July 2nd: two day,

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nonstop. Every subject tests, and tests from grade 1 through grade 12 in—and then in and—in two days test, is—which is ridiculous. I think the system is getting a little bit better. Okay? But when I was in school at that time, 40 years ago, and that was based

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upon, like, who can memorize the most? A-and so as a result, what you receive is very like, "Okay, one plus one is one—is two." But then–then—or–or–or they say, "Oh, this plus this equals this." You don't ask for, "Why ?" You just say, "Okay, here's this, here's

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this and this." And you try to—you don't kind of really apply them together. And I think that's the main reason that my father saw this as a problem in the education system. And that's why he applied to come to America, so that the whole purpose of coming to the United States is for us getting a better education.

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And so, that's a big difference in here. I think in America, at least my daughter grew up in here, you know, we let her to be free, you know. Let her play things and during the play, you learn a lot of

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knowledge. Whether it's language or math or science whatsoever, just through playing and touching all the stuff. When I was growing up, we do not have those kind of luxury system.

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But I think it's getting better. But–but I think back then, it's a little bit kind of like a, "Okay, I give you this, you memorize it and then you–you got a good straight-A student, and then you can move on to the next one." And I think in a sense, the

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straight-A student, so what? You know what I'm saying? I mean, yeah–yeah, it's good. But the question: can you take that knowledge a-and apply to everyday and apply for society and apply for upcoming

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challenges? Things like that. I think that's–that's very important. And especially in Europe. I mean, I think it's Finland or somewhere.

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They take kids out for the whole year long and then the–the parents travel with the kids all year long a-and then they come back, they–they end up having the best education system. Because the education system, in my opinion, need to be alive, you know, need to be real. And tha-that way you can engage and that way you can see, "Oh yeah, I understand

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that. I got that. I have that experience." And I think that's very important. So, that's why we come to America, so that we can have better education, according to my father anyway. So...

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Um, we'll touch more on this later, but just for clarification, when exactly did you and your family move to the States? Um, w-we moved to United States when I was 18, and I truly, believe it or not, my father started to apply for

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American—immigrate to the United States when I was in elementary school. As only—until when I was in high school, paperwork app—got approved. And then we were able to come.

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So that was 1980. We arrived in the United States. Unfortunately, when we come to the United States, my father could not come with us because he does not have a job here.

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And then, because the paperwork got approved very late. So my brother was close to being military training age, even though he's only 16 at that time, the government won't allow him to leave the country

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. So therefore he had to leave behind. And so as a result, my father booked us in the airplane a-and have a one month vacation, just basically travel from Taiwan to Japan, South Asia and then–then

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all the places in the United States, let us travel all the way with travel agent and then–then finally designate—arrive in United States, in Houston area. But then the moment we arrive, my mother turned around, go back to Taiwan.

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Because my father is still there, to run a business, and then my brother still over there. So basically leave three of us in the United States. So–so that was many years ago. Okay, awesome. Yeah.

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We will touch more on your immigration experience later, but I have a few more questions about your education in Taipei. So, the next question is: what were your favorite subjects in school, that you remember?

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Uh, favorite subject definitely is Chinese, because I was able to write a lot of article. And I–I told myself, "I want to be a writer," because I–I got a lot of—writing got published when I was in elementary school and middle school and high school.

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And then–and then because my teacher, I told you about my mentor when I was in middle school, it's really encouraging me a lot of good books, good philosopher–philosopher and all that stuff. So I read a lot of those kinds of things.

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So Chinese has become my favorite subject. I also can say art is my favorite subject. But art was a little bit forbidden because my father don't believe that art is part of education, as–as open-minded he is, he

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just don't think that—you should not spend time on the art. So we try to downplay on art very much on that . Anyway... When did you decide to pursue a career in interior design

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and/or art? Did you take any interior design-oriented or art classes prior to attending University of Houston? Um, no, not at all.

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And in fact, I wasn't even—wasn't even sure what I'm going to study in college, other than—I know for sure I like—I like art very much.

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And then, as a f-first year as–as a freshman, I just—I should try everything anyway. And it's only until I took the fundamental design class, and then I realized I like interior design.

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But prior to that, in Asia, we don't have such a thing, you know. Like, okay, elected class to study this and that whatsoever. So, basically only until when I

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entered into University of Houston and then I took a few art classes, and then I realized, "Well, this is the one I like." And then—but I didn't—not necessarily decided to be interior design.

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It just so happened that this course gave me the chance, and then later, I pursued for four year college and then with a masters as well for interior design. So... What influenced your decision to attend the University of Houston?

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Uh, well, my–my father have an uncle here—I mean have a brother here. And so–so basically we have one uncle here in the United States. And so, he decided, "Well, I guess the best way to send the

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kids to–to another foreign country is where—somewhere the relatives live." And—but–but the funny thing is this uncle, we only met him once. Because the whole time he lived in the United States.

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And–and the first time we met him when I was ten years old. He came by for my grandfather's funeral, and it was the first time we met him. And then the second time I met him, I was 18 when we arrived in the United States, you know. So as much of "Oh, yeah, we got a relative." But it's really—it's like a

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relative of, you know, the sound of it. "Oh, we got a relative." And I think it's more for my father's sake, like, "Oh, I got my brother over there. So my kids is with my brother," and we have an uncle.

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So it's more for mental thinking thing, "Oh, okay. In case emergency someone will be there," those kind of thing. But it just so happened my uncle was in the United States and Houston, and then so we decided to come to Houston.

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And then that-that's how I stay in Houston. And also my dad told me that, well, since my parents is not here, they want me s-stay local to take care of my brother and sister.

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I was trying to—want to attend to different university. But since I needed taking care of my brother and sister, so I had to stay in town for them. And then take them to school and then, you know, after school activity, things like that.

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So–so then Houston became the place that—I stayed. Yeah so... Yeah. The next question is: what was your experience at the

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University of Houston like and were you involved in any extracurricular organizations while attending? Well, it is-it's a funny story about University of Houston. For any foreign student, you got to pass the test.

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It's called "Testing English as a Second Language." It's called "TOEFL test" and then the score needs to be 550. And at that time, my family, no one knows that, that's what I need to do, because for foreign students.

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You know, because you come to America and then all of a sudden, everybody need to go to school. Well, it's easy go to high school. You just—you—this is your home, your address, and then you go to the one nearby. So my brother and sister was able to go to school, middle school

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and high school. And all of a sudden, first day of school, I got nowhere to go. And then when I discover like, "Oh, you got to have a test score because you're a foreign student, in order to go to any—apply to any university." And also by the time, the deadline is already missed.

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So I missed the first year. And–and then–and then during that year, I was quickly learning my English so—in order to pass the test. But I didn't pass right away anyway. So finally, I–I took a couple of times and–and

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the last highest score I ever get to is 549. I-I'm–I'm one point shy away from the minimum requirement. So the University of Houston, very tough. She was—still will not let me in.

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Yes. And then so I thinking, "Well, I cannot keep on just kind of be, you know, wasting my life, not go to college." And then—by that time I've been working, okay, as well too. And also I go to the eve—the evening class, go to community

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college. So I know a lot of people al-already. So one place I work, this person, his name is... Tom Vincent.

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He owned the–the very large air conditioning company a-and also very well known in Houston. And so I–I told him, "Well, I miss one point. I cannot get into university." And he say, "That's nonsense." So he had Jim

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Baker call University of Houston and said, "We have one very intelligent young woman over here and they will like attend to your university. And understand there's a situation about this TOEFL test and stuff," you know. So, Jim Baker wrote a letter to University of Houston,

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and the dean said, "No, I'm sorry, 550 is 550. I cannot make any exception," you know. "I–I have to follow the rule," you know. And so—but later on, they were able to—we're talking about the school is already started.

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The first week of school has already started a-and one week after that, I got "conditionally admitted" to university based on a certain probation. If I do well, they may consider. If I don't–I don't do well, then I'm out again and I had of making sure I

00:29:31.590 - 00:29:45.390

take my test one more time. Well, anyway, bottom line is I–I work real hard a year, and then, and I prove them wrong that I was able to handle it. And I was on Dean's list and then I was on the Dean's list whol-the whole time.

00:29:45.390 - 00:30:03.580

Anyway, and I take many, many classes, you know, I have no problem with communicating with my professor and–and attending class, all that stuff. So–so that will fulfill my–my parents' requirement. Okay, stay in Houston, taking care of my brother and sister, and then I was able to

00:30:03.580 - 00:30:17.000

get into university and do my duty that able to prove them that, you know, I was able to handle the class even though I'm foreign student. So hopefully I answer all your question [laughs]. Did I answer your—all your questions [laughs]?

00:30:17.470 - 00:30:33.130

Anyway, so. So that's how we decided I go to University of Houston. Yeah, it definitely seems like you put a lot, a lot of work. Yeah. And–and–and—also I remember the question now, I always kind of forget the

00:30:33.130 - 00:30:50.110

question—is that because so many class I had to take and also had to be in a very, very best behavior, so to speak, that prove to them that, you know, I can make it. So, I studied real hard, and as a result, I–I didn't participate very much organization.

00:30:50.170 - 00:31:06.590

It's one thing I regret and I wish I can join this–this event or join this kind of things, you know. I would study the whole time, partly because—the moment I get out of class, I go to work right away.

00:31:07.420 - 00:31:24.030

And then–then—and if not, then I have to take care of my brother, sister for their after-school activity, things like that. So, it just really leave me no time for anything whatsoever. But that's the price I had to pay,

00:31:24.270 - 00:31:39.270

being oldest. And also my parents calling on me that to making sure that, you know, my brother, sister got taken care of, because they are not here, things like that. So, I didn't get much involved. And I think that-that's what—in the sense that I'm trying to do as much as I can right

00:31:39.270 - 00:31:53.900

now, involved, because I–I think in a sense we need to give it back and also connect with our community as well too. So, anyway... For sure. That mak-makes completely—that makes complete sense.

00:31:54.300 - 00:32:09.770

So to clarify again—my apologies if I'm being a little redundant—were you the only one who was taking care of your siblings? I know that you mentioned you had a relative that you knew of, but was it just primarily you who was taking care of your siblings?

00:32:10.190 - 00:32:26.160

Yeah. It was—just let me tell you this [laughs] it's a—it's a rather kind of...so when we arrived here, I was 18. And we got to have a place to–to live. We would stay with my uncle for a very short time, you know.

00:32:26.160 - 00:32:38.630

But you–you know how that goes, if you stay with the relative, it's—eventually wear out that welcome, all the stuff. And also, it's still a–a cultural adjustment bec-because everybody is very Americanized and we're still in a Chinese mode, you know, so to speak.

00:32:38.660 - 00:32:52.910

Nothing wrong with that. Everyone's unique it's own way, and I think just everybody needed their space. So at the age of 18, I bought a house, for my father in cash. And then I also bought a car for my dad.

00:32:52.910 - 00:33:09.520

And then, you know, bought all the furniture, appliances, learn how to grocery shopping, learn how to taking care of the lawn, buy all the equipment, all the stuff. So, that's–that's how the whole thing get started,

00:33:10.210 - 00:33:27.410

you know. Yes, I—and then I remember the first day, we got to prepare lunch. And then three of us looking at the stove like—keep poking on a piece of pork chop, and then keep—my brother came and say, "So you think it's done?" My sister say,

00:33:27.620 - 00:33:37.940

"I don't know." And my brother come and say, "So what do you think? So what do you think?" I said, "I have no idea. I've never cooked before. I have no idea." [laughs] And then–and then, you gotta remember, back then, that's 40

00:33:37.940 - 00:33:49.010

years ago—40 plus years ago. There's no Google, you know, right? You can Google everything, how to cook, things like that. And–and–and–and the computer, I mean, who have–who have

00:33:49.460 - 00:34:02.270

a–a computer at that time, you know, we don't have a computer. We don't even have phone, you know. And–and–and all we have—we don't even have encyclopedia, you know, all the stuff. And then, we are coming from a family that, you know, we got people take us to–to

00:34:02.270 - 00:34:13.400

school, you know, and then we got people cook for us, you know. So, we never know how to cook, you know? So in–in a way, it's kind of a bad transition for us. Like, "Oh crap, now we gotta cook, now what are we supposed to do?" All this stuff.

00:34:13.400 - 00:34:23.810

And then it goes read forever long instruction. Even if some food is really mixed (?), right? So you're like, "Okay, every two words. Okay, what does this mean? Okay, somebody look at a dictionary," you know?

00:34:23.810 - 00:34:36.590

And so we constantly be looking at a dictionary. Right now, you can say, da da da da [imitates typing], and Google can translate it for you. But back then, you don't have. So three of us will struggle, how to cook, a-and h-how to survive

00:34:36.590 - 00:34:46.490

all the stuff, you know? But think in a sense, it make us bonded together, you know, And we–we figure out a way that, "Okay, Monday, Tuesday, who do what? Tuesday and Wednesday?

00:34:46.490 - 00:35:02.900

Who do what?" You know, we got to do dishes, so we got to grocery, and we got to clean the house, we do to do—and take out the trash, you know, and–and–and try to learn a little bit everything, you know, including the time change, you know? So it's like, "Oh–Oh–Oh–Oh, time change.

00:35:03.050 - 00:35:15.170

Oh well–well, we better not miss the school today" or something like that. But you know, just a whole bunch of things that–that—imagine that you go to another country, you got to learn all in once. And then without your—only thing to do it without your parents, you know.

00:35:15.170 - 00:35:32.910

So—and–and—so I think, lot of immigrants, they, whether is—whether is my age or your age, whatever, they come with the parents. So, at least you got parents that's kind of overshadowed you and they

00:35:32.910 - 00:35:43.460

kind of guide you, all the stuff. So, we are the first generation. We are pretty much on our own trying—try to figure out what is going on and how to survive, things like that.

00:35:43.460 - 00:35:57.810

Anyway—and then compare with the technology back then, it's–it's even harder. But I think we survive [laughs]. We okay [laughs], you know. I finished my school and my brother, sister also, you know, went

00:35:57.810 - 00:36:05.130

to University of Texas. They got a good job and everything. So, I think we turned out okay. We survived. It was challenging year, but we survived [laughs].

00:36:07.570 - 00:36:22.960

For sure. That must have been quite the bonding exercise and— It–it–it–it–it was in a sense, I–I–I amazed that we were able to survive. Because I–I remember the first phone call, my dad called us, and that—that was

00:36:22.960 - 00:36:39.760

before—nowaday you can text each other, right? Or—or you can go through the Google, through a different route and have a phone call. And then every phone call, like, 30 minutes back then, 30 minutes phone call is $150. So we had to keep it very short and–and then—then write down the

00:36:39.760 - 00:36:53.540

important thing, so we can make the decision. And the first time he called and we cried like kids, you know, of course we were kids, you know, we cry. And my dad said, "I didn't spend $150 for you guys to cry! So you got to tell me what's going on!" You know.

00:36:53.540 - 00:37:06.420

So—so anyway—but–but later on, we learned how to coping and–and also know that—what kind of thing to ask, so that during the timed phone call, we were not wasting the family money stuff. You know, write down the notes, things like that.

00:37:06.690 - 00:37:22.440

But nowadays, so easy, you know, it goes through line. You can get a free phone call, you know, oversea for free and–and you can talk endlessly in a fine-free phone call, you know, per day, things like that. But yeah, but that was then and everything is so expensive and we cannot call anyway.

00:37:22.440 - 00:37:40.120

But—but we learn—we learn h-how to managing ourselves, we learn how to cope with a new culture, we also learn how to respect one to the other, you know, through—through an interesting ex-experience, I guess for better word [laughs].

00:37:44.160 - 00:38:02.640

Um, so on the subject of your immigration experience, you've talked plenty on culture shock, but I just wanted to ask if you have any notable memories of struggle with culture shock? Perhaps even, like, outside of the household or

00:38:02.640 - 00:38:19.500

college. Do you have any memories of that in particular? Yeah, I think in general it's–it's–it's—I mean, we know we are coming to the United States, but how can you prepare yourself just, like, right now?

00:38:19.620 - 00:38:30.690

Okay–okay, you are going to immigrate to England. I–I mean, I think England, America, maybe have similar culture. Let's just say, okay, now you're going to immigrate to—I don't know, somewhere to—totally the opposite of United States.

00:38:30.940 - 00:38:47.820

I mean, yeah, you can read about it, and–and then you can kind of know about it. But when you're actually in it, then that's totally a different things altogether, right? And so also, it—I was 18, my sister was 14, my youngest brother was 12.

00:38:48.210 - 00:39:07.630

So all of a sudden that—not only I'm their sister, but I'm also [makes air quotes sign] "their parents." So you got to learn that, and then–then you learn a new culture, and then when they have an issue coming back from the school, not only, you know, try to understand the language

00:39:07.630 - 00:39:23.380

of each class acu—each class challenge, but, you know, some people will make fun of my brother's name or vice versa, teasing them, all that stuff. And—and 12 years old and 14 years is that malleable age.

00:39:23.380 - 00:39:37.810

Everything is, like, you need parents' guidance on that. So how can a 18 years guide a 12 years old and–and the 14 years old? I'm—I need a guardian myself, you know . So that was the one challenge.

00:39:37.930 - 00:39:53.940

And then and also...try to solving it—solving it, not only everydays life, how to cook, how to get on a bus, how—how to do this homework, how to communicate, you know, to

00:39:53.940 - 00:40:14.020

your teacher, your classmate, and even just try to understand the overall American culture, what's thi-this is really this is about. Those kind of thing—it's a lot of tear, you know. But–but at the same time, I think without a tear, you will never bring

00:40:14.020 - 00:40:30.360

any joy in your life. So that—I think that's what makes me easier for now, that I was able to learn all of that. And now with anything happened around me, or now I'm being a parent, because I have a daughter, that I just pretty much free—

00:40:30.370 - 00:40:44.800

let her to try a lot of things. And so that she was surprised and said, "Oh my—most of my Asian friends, w-when they don't get a–a hundred on the test, they–they–they–they cry." I said, "Why?" I [She] said, "Well, because their parents disapp—they feel that they're

00:40:44.800 - 00:41:01.270

disappointed on their parents." I said, "You don't go to school for your parents. You go to school for yourself." So I think she was in shock that we were so lenient on her. But I think at the same time, it–it enhance what we do things. So, hopefully that answers your question.

00:41:03.370 - 00:41:14.590

That definitely did. So did your parents eventually move to Houston with you or— No. I'm sorry. No, no, no.

00:41:14.590 - 00:41:20.800

They're still over there. They still live there. So, sorry to interrupt your question [laughs]. No, it's completely fine.

00:41:21.010 - 00:41:32.040

So, do your siblings still live here? Yeah, my brother lives in Austin. He got a–a job after school—a-after finished University of Texas, he got a job at Austin.

00:41:32.040 - 00:41:44.770

And my sister got a job in Dallas. And then—but then later on, she moved. She got transferred to elsewhere, and then now she's in Philippines doing a charity work, things like that.

00:41:45.190 - 00:42:05.800

So...and my parents s-still over there because I think it's hard for them to—to learn a new language, you know. And also finding the job at this stage of their life. They won't give somebody who cannot speak English, nor does, you

00:42:05.800 - 00:42:21.880

know, give him the such a high pay, right? So—so the only job they can have and still have is over there. So they still live there, and then they come to visit and we visit them. So...that's–that's how our family get separated

00:42:23.290 - 00:42:35.490

many years ago. Otherwise, we're always together, things like that, so... So what would you say has made you stay in Houston since you first moved here at 18?

00:42:36.550 - 00:42:50.470

Um, it-it's because of...my brother, sister—well, it start with my uncle's here. So my parents put over here. And then right after that, because we arrived during the summer,

00:42:50.590 - 00:43:04.490

and after summer, school started, right? So we quickly had to put my brother and sister to–to–to–to school. So once we bought a house and–and go to school, I think it's hard to move. And–and I don't think my dad will even allow us to move elsewhere because in their mind

00:43:04.540 - 00:43:18.040

say, "Oh, you got an uncle over there," you know. And–and he's thinking, "Where do you want to go?" And probably don't even know where to go ourselves anyway, so we stay here. And then, because we stay here, my father want me to stay here as well to

00:43:18.040 - 00:43:32.870

taking care my brother. So as a result, we pretty much stay here. We all finished—my brother finished high school—yeah, high school. And then he attend UT and then my sister at the time, she

00:43:32.870 - 00:43:48.280

wanted to go to UT as well too. So. ..that was the first time that–that, you know, I'm staying in Houston and the other two was going to University of Texas.

00:43:48.280 - 00:44:02.060

Anyway, but–but Houston always the place for everybody to come to. Like my mom, they'll come to visit. And then my brother and sister when they done with

00:44:02.270 - 00:44:18.600

the semester, they'll come home to Houston. So, I think in a sense, you got to have a home base so that everybody can come together, things like that. So, I become the point here that everybody come, things

00:44:18.600 - 00:44:38.270

like that. So, anyway... Awesome. So we're going to start to transition more into your career. So, you graduated with a BFA in Interior Design in 1987, and then you received your MFA in interior design the year

00:44:38.270 - 00:44:49.640

following. So I wanted to ask: what made you decide to pursue an MFA in interior design? And/or what is the difference between the BFA program and the MFA program?

00:44:50.570 - 00:45:06.170

So, when I finished my BFA, it was '87. I was lucky enough, got the job right away with 3D International, and they sent me to Philadelphia.

00:45:07.430 - 00:45:21.800

So I spent a whole summer outside of Texas and working on a–a fabulous project. And then, I was enjoying very much. But then yet at the same time, I really miss design.

00:45:23.830 - 00:45:42.900

Design, internal philosophy, design of comparison contracts and things like that. So...it took me a—a while to make that final decision far because financial situation, that I was pretty much on–on my own to pay for all my

00:45:42.900 - 00:45:54.010

college bill, all the stuff. And also I think to myself, "Well, I'm the only one who got a job upon graduation. And now I'm going to let go of this job and go back to school?

00:45:54.010 - 00:46:06.760

What was I thinking?" You know. And I know my parents would never approve of it. But I tell myself, if I don't do it, then I'm afraid that once I start working, I would never take time to get my master's degree.

00:46:07.630 - 00:46:22.490

And so, I—I– I–I applied it, prior to my graduation. Just thought that—just what if, you know? And I got it, you know.

00:46:22.490 - 00:46:37.710

And–and then—but however, it created a headache for University of Houston . Because they do not have a master's program for interior design. So they don't know what to do with me. Then–then so they—they ask me, "You really want to get a master's degree in interior

00:46:37.710 - 00:46:52.480

design?" I say, "Yeah. I'm pretty sure." And they say, "Well...well, we're going to kind of put a–a few class together and we had to put a couple faculty together. So you—can you just kind of rethink about this?" But anyway, bottom line

00:46:52.480 - 00:47:10.320

is...I ...I—I let go of my–my wonderful job. And then I will get—I was able to get a scholarship through the faculty. So—and also teaching at U of H at the

00:47:10.410 - 00:47:27.510

same time, while I'm getting my master's degree. And master's degree really allowed me to further desi—s-s-study the interior design. And, in general, interior design, p eople thinking, "Oh, well, you–you decorate the house, you know, you decorate your office,

00:47:27.510 - 00:47:44.960

things like that. Believe it or not, we never do a one time—not even one project has to decorate anything whatsoever. Everything is all based upon design basis. Like, you know, study architectural—I

00:47:45.040 - 00:47:59.250

studied different well-known, designer, their philosophy, things like that. We study space because interior design is really—is make a space workable for mankind.

00:47:59.260 - 00:48:17.050

And imagine your room or a classroom or–or your ...your living space or the place you go. If they out of–out of order, you know, a djacency is wrong, it will make you feel dysfunctional, very

00:48:17.530 - 00:48:31.730

uncomfortable. So to do interior design, you really got to study space relationship whatsoever. And that's what the classes is all about. And I think U of H have a very good program because

00:48:32.330 - 00:48:46.280

everything is have to do with studying the space. We build model, from the day one, we build model because model gives a sense of scale, all the stuff. And then we study relationship, we study the vocabulary, like, okay, if I want to create a space, it's soft.

00:48:46.880 - 00:49:02.450

Well, if space is soft, if I have a whole bunch of hard–hard edge. And also, you know, a–a funny corner, t hey can not consider it soft. So we really study the vocabulary so that we can making sure that space

00:49:02.450 - 00:49:18.260

has its own character, what it really is about. And then—and so I really like that very much. And then so I figure, "Well...what-what's two more years...

00:49:18.260 - 00:49:33.280

will it hurt for me to get my master?" But, th e thing is, I do not have two more years, okay? Because I started school late because of my—as you know, my–my TOEFL test that I messed up a little bit.

00:49:33.280 - 00:49:45.040

And then also, I do not have that kind of budget as well, too. And so I said, "Okay. I got to finish in one year. So I finished my 80 hours of the master program in one year.

00:49:45.040 - 00:50:00.160

And I–I of course, I took some summer classes as well too. And I also work. So the work con-considered like—I think there's a special name for it, like, special study case or something like that, doing research, things like that.

00:50:00.460 - 00:50:21.710

And so, at the end, my instructor, for my thesis, they asked me very tough question, like, "How is the—five element has to do with interior space and compared with—to compare with A-American interior design?"

00:50:21.730 - 00:50:38.960

so I had to write a thesis about one and four page long—four inch thick, the thesis, to do a comparison of Eastern and Western interior design. And–and–and–and then also fire—what the—how the fire element get applied

00:50:38.990 - 00:50:51.470

to the space. And then someone will think, "What's the fire element have to do with interior design?" Fire element really had to do with the interior design. Because it had to do with the four season, it had to do with the direction, it had to do

00:50:51.470 - 00:51:01.790

with the color, it had to do with the shape . Because each one is associated with all the things. So I do a–a–a compare-contrast thing. And then I also did a sculpture f

00:51:03.020 - 00:51:19.190

or my master program of interior design. And–and–and I—so basically, I took the interior design to the way that it's not our ordinary and say, "Oh okay, here's a piece of furniture, here is the wall, here is the ceiling, here is your pillow," things like that.

00:51:19.220 - 00:51:35.410

None of those. It's—everything is very abstract and–and–and philosophical and–and also has v ery deep meaning to it whatsoever. So I think because of that, it give me a lot of

00:51:35.680 - 00:51:53.470

knowledge and experience and so that I can apply to my interior design when I'm working with the c lient as well as—right now it's my artwork. It apply all together, all–all tie in together. And that would require another sidebar conversation altogether.

00:51:53.470 - 00:52:13.040

But–but I think—I think for anyone that want to further advance their education or–or their–their anything whatsoever and gain more knowledge. I really think that we all should get at least master's degree.

00:52:13.110 - 00:52:34.260

I'm—I truly believe that anyway, because I really enjoy, myself. Great. So looking at your resume, you have designed a variety of projects in your career when attending college and afterwards . You've worked at Planning Design Research, Ziegler Cooper Architects, Hawicz and

00:52:34.260 - 00:52:50.790

Stait Incorporation, and Inventure Design. And I believe since 2016, you've worked self-employed at your studio, HH Design studio. So, what would you say are the differences in designing projects for health care or corporations or

00:52:50.790 - 00:53:03.120

independent contractors? Like I mentioned, it seems like you've done a variety of work in your field, so I wanted to ask what are the differences in designing different projects for different clients?

00:53:03.450 - 00:53:20.750

I think in general, whether it's corporate or health care or consultant, the one thing it never change is we are designing for the client. It's always client. And–and–and—w

00:53:23.030 - 00:53:37.000

alk in the door, they hire you to do their job. And then the first thing you need to do is you need to listen. You listen their requirement, listen to what their need is.

00:53:37.000 - 00:53:55.660

And I'm only is–is the person there to take notes. And then I'm assembling all the requirement together and produce the final product to a space that they can call themselves "home." Well home for the

00:53:55.690 - 00:54:12.950

office, home for the home or home for their culture to grow. So, I'm only the vehicle. I–I–I truly also believe that t he designer should not have—a lot of people—a lot of designers have their own

00:54:12.950 - 00:54:23.920

signature. But I think we should listen to the client, what they want. I mean, in this case, if you hire me to do your office, I need to know all your requirements.

00:54:23.920 - 00:54:38.640

And I need to–to put all the—me f or you, for you and your staff. But if I just do have my personal ego, do everything I want it, then you going to walk in and say, "Well, what this is about?

00:54:38.640 - 00:54:54.860

I'm asking for this, this, this and you give me X, Y, Z." So, listen is very important and deliver, you know, to the client is very important. So, those three things, those three sectors,

00:54:55.280 - 00:55:10.370

you talking about corporate and health care, they have one thing in common. But, you know, at the same time, they're individually different. Because the corporate in the senses that—b ased on their lease, some are 3 to 5 years and some are ten years, well nowadays,

00:55:10.390 - 00:55:22.150

because of COVID, everything is less than three years for the leasing. So, it'll be such a short time and if you spend a greacol deal of money for it, then the money got wasted. Because after three years the lease is up.

00:55:22.150 - 00:55:34.180

They may or may not stay there. They are going to the next one. So you got to be judicially, very—pay attention about how much money is d elegated. And–and what their need is, if they only want for three years,

00:55:34.180 - 00:55:50.260

you need to design something that is not wasteful and yet functional for them, for the—f-for–for the amount of time they going over there. Now, health care is different. Health care, majority of the time, the p roject is very long, so it take a long time

00:55:50.260 - 00:56:06.250

to get there. So by the time you finish the programming section of it, and then, you got to change the requirement already. Because by then, you know, they say, "Oh, well, this department is growing. We need to add more X mon—the bed and we gotta be adding more—this much of

00:56:06.260 - 00:56:22.560

support." So it's you're c—it's constantly change. But once it got built, they stay there quite a long time. Like Texas Children's Hospital, which is my—one of my project. That project is so many different floor and each floor has it's–it's own character.

00:56:22.560 - 00:56:42.100

Because one's for the security for, and—this department, that department. But they only they functioning—function doing together and working together as well too. But for them, their length of time is longer. And also, the type of material we're allowed to use is different.

00:56:42.310 - 00:56:58.290

And also certain colors cannot be applied in health care. Like the ye-yellow and red and some of the color, those are big no-no. Because they translate into g etting—patient get dizzy and make pa-patient become scared or all that stuff.

00:56:58.300 - 00:57:14.700

So–so in that sense, design is the same, but then certain application is different. Yeah. And then for me, right now I'm being an independent consultant. I basically just working on a project, like I do all the time, same as my

00:57:14.700 - 00:57:27.030

c-corporate client. So I do law firm right now. And I have a couple of retail as well. And then I have a couple small bookstore here and there,

00:57:27.060 - 00:57:42.260

things like that. So, basically, design is pretty much the same because I had to do from beginning to the end. I had to program everything and then I put it through the—after the programming,

00:57:42.260 - 00:57:56.730

I kind of put it into the drawing. And once I do the drawing, I had to send it out for a contractor to bid on it. And contractor wants to bid on it, I had to take to city of Houston for permits. And once the permit got approved, I had to send it to the state of Texas for another

00:57:56.730 - 00:58:10.920

permit. Because they got to have two permit altogether. And then once that's all approved and then we start construction. So I follow construction and I have a client move in. So, it's pretty much the same thing I have done before.

00:58:10.950 - 00:58:22.600

Only difference is that now I'm using my home as my studio. Because the rent issue, you know, the–the less expensive. And also during the COVID, you know, nobody going to the office.

00:58:22.600 - 00:58:34.630

So, working from home reduced the–the cost of that, things like that. So... Have your interior design projects required more collaboration or individual work?

00:58:34.630 - 00:58:49.840

I know you've already touched on this and it seems like it involves both. So I wanted to ask: which do you prefer? Do you enjoy collaborating with others in your work or kind of working by yourself?

00:58:50.320 - 00:59:04.840

Well, I definitely enjoy collaborating with my team. All the staff. Especially for interior design, it's–it–it's hard to work by yourself. Because—because a-a-a project

00:59:04.840 - 00:59:21.340

and–and–and I got to have two separate explanations on this one—when a project come in, y ou have this kind of—for a better word, a programming information from the client. And then you kind of put all those puzzle together.

00:59:21.790 - 00:59:35.110

Like clients say, "Okay, I need to have four office and six conference room. How many—" this, this, this. So you put that information on the plan. And making sure that, you know, everything i s—is there, based on their

00:59:35.110 - 00:59:50.680

requirement. And also the adjacency, you know, all the stuff. And then y-y-y-you do rest of the detail, making sure everything functional, all the stuff. So when you're working on all the stuff, you work with your team as well too, because one person cannot possibly do it all.

00:59:51.760 - 01:00:08.130

So basically the project, I'm the project designer and project architect. And then I got, depending on the size of the project, I have 1 or 2 p eople work together and then they will kind of like, "Oh, well. Uh, how about this? How about this?" You know, there were a couple finish, you know,

01:00:08.130 - 01:00:19.950

or working on an electrical plane. One will be working on the lighting plane and working—one will be working on e-elevation, you know, all the stuff. So, we constantly had to talk to each other.

01:00:21.740 - 01:00:38.210

And, you know, in order making sure the project is cohesively putting together, because whether it's lighting or electrical, it all had to be functional with the space itself. I mean, if I put a light, like just in this case, this desk put in the

01:00:38.210 - 01:00:51.560

wrong place. Maybe it's because the room situation, I have no choice. That we will not put a light behind people's back. Because that way your face is turned black and then imagine a whole bunch of glare on your computer as well too.

01:00:51.590 - 01:01:09.270

So, lighting plan and layout the office they are—they'll go together. And then also at the same time, I will not put an electrical outlet on the opposite side of it because of—if your desk is on this side, why you put on opposite side? So they all have to be cohesive—working together.

01:01:09.270 - 01:01:23.090

So it's constantly drawing—not only drawing need to be connect, but also, your team have to talk to each other. And–and through the teaming situation that, you know, we can help one or the other.

01:01:23.090 - 01:01:38.600

I mean we're constantly coaching my team, elevate them to the–to the next level so they can learn something from the project . And also give them a chance, they can also express their idea. Because we all will present three different idea to the client, you know, and then we can

01:01:38.600 - 01:01:51.150

pick from there, things like that. Now, because of the—the COVID situation, everybody working from home, it's reach is very difficult for i-interior design company.

01:01:51.150 - 01:02:07.610

Because we need to be with the client and with our colleague c ollaborating, discussing the project. And then imagine you and I are going to look at the finish—or look at the drawing together. It's–it's our drawing it's–it's like

01:02:08.810 - 01:02:24.860

36 by 42 size, you know. And then–and then now you and I are going to go—go through the drawing just through aa c omputer? It's like—it's total, you know, nightmare, things like that. Anyway, so it's very hard.

01:02:24.860 - 01:02:41.150

And even for doing our presentation, we will send our stuff to the client. Well, client, a lot of the time when we p resent it, we'll—we will put it on the conference table and we cover it up. And only when–when the client walk in and we discuss a certain i

01:02:42.800 - 01:02:55.680

tem, then we kind of reveal the item, so then—for them to see and for us to walk them through it. But when you send the package to them, they open up before the meeting.

01:02:55.680 - 01:03:05.630

And they start looking at it, like a kids looking through the gifts at Christmas. And they open, look at–at to everything and they say, "Oh, I like this or this," but they don't know what's what. And why they like it or don't like about it.

01:03:05.630 - 01:03:22.730

And they already ruin the whole entire s-stage of how everything go together. And then a lot of time, sometimes they say, "Well, I don't like this," but they haven't have given a chance, it's like, "Well, we—reason we—we put this element or certain color here, it's because your requirement or something had to do with the

01:03:22.830 - 01:03:42.030

ADA, you know, requirement." Sometimes it had to do with, you know, further enhance the space for sustain-sustainability, things like that. So a lot of time, it's like without us present, that the project got presented the way that it's getting v ery, very

01:03:42.030 - 01:03:55.500

challenging, things like that. Yeah, so, for us we prefer with the team, w ith the client and working together. But for me right now it's because of—I'm a small firm m

01:03:55.500 - 01:04:12.180

yself. And then so, I mean, yes, I–I do have a couple of people, you know, but when they—when we work on a project, they come to the–come to the–come to the studio, you know . And then we work together, you know. And especially during the discussing the layout stage, we always have to talk.

01:04:12.180 - 01:04:26.360

Because it's–it's hard to look at the drawing and then doing the layout through the computer, you know. I think as–as much–as much we are in the high-tech technology stage and eventually we're going to be, you know, AI, all the stuff.

01:04:26.370 - 01:04:43.160

But I think, human one on one interaction is still necessary and very important. For sure. I can see how without human interaction, that process must definitely be very frustrating and [THHL: Yeah.] challenging.

01:04:43.160 - 01:05:00.210

For sure. So moving to the next question, in a statement at the beginning of your resume, you emphasize that you strive to personalize and tailor your interior design for your client, which you've mentioned before, and that you strive to curate personal relationships with your clients.

01:05:00.210 - 01:05:14.910

So when did you learn or decide on these values, when it comes to your work? Did you always know you wanted to incorporate these values into your work? Or did you come up with them as you learned from your projects?

01:05:15.270 - 01:05:31.560

Yeah. I think, as I mentioned before that when client walk in, they really looking for help to create a space that they can feel proud

01:05:32.280 - 01:05:46.160

and happy with it. And then they have—some come in with the idea that—what office want to look like. But some companies like, "I–I don't know. But I need this, this, this." You know.

01:05:46.160 - 01:06:02.200

And then—so we always t oss out—at least, the place I–I used to work, we all believe that when clients walk in, we have to listen to their requirement is.

01:06:02.200 - 01:06:16.280

Just like when you go to, you know, doctor. You tell doctor what you—what happened to you. And with their experience, they can diagnose what is best for you. And they give you the best prescription or how to, you know, analyze the whole thing.

01:06:16.280 - 01:06:33.600

And so we believe that in the sense that to—to enhance a project or do a better job for the client, is that we–we listen. Once we listen, we are only the vehicle to help them to get there.

01:06:33.600 - 01:06:50.830

And we should not put our personal like or dislike into the project. Because it will—it would change the character of what the project really need. Because the client coming in with their need and their requirement.

01:06:50.830 - 01:07:08.980

So we are only the store to help them to get there. For the better word, we always tell them, "We are only your pencil," you know. "You–you tell us what we [you] want to, and this pencil will help you to draw it out, and send it to the city, get a permit, and then we hel-help you to visualize

01:07:09.430 - 01:07:23.170

to your space and make the space a better place for you to live." A lot of the designers put their signature on it. In my opinion, that's good for the designer.

01:07:23.290 - 01:07:35.110

Y-Y-Y-You make your own statement. Who don't want to have a beautiful project? And who don't want to have, like, you know, the signature, right? But the end of the day, when client walk in, yes, they might

01:07:35.110 - 01:07:51.350

hire you for your signature, but at the same time, they want their own signature to be the signature. That make sense? You know, and so we try to be making sure that, you know, they are the one most important thing.

01:07:51.350 - 01:08:01.700

And they are the one that we want to show on the project. We guide them. We guide them through our knowledge. We guide them through the right thing to do, you know.

01:08:01.700 - 01:08:18.510

But I think to–to help them, to see the vision come to fruition, I think it's probably the–the greatest reward for us and also for the client. Because the client feels like, "Oh, I decide this, I'm the one have this

01:08:18.510 - 01:08:36.440

vision, make this office look like this because I create my own culture." And because of that, I think, a lot of project, client understand that, our philosophy, so we become a long-term friend .

01:08:36.810 - 01:08:51.590

Like some of the project, at the beginning, we only hire for, like, a little area, you know. And then after couple project here and there, we end up doing 15 floor for them. And up to this day, even though I'm not with that particular company anymore, I'm still

01:08:51.590 - 01:09:07.630

friends with them. And so it become—we become a long term friend. And then—and also when I become my—on my own, my client also follow me because they like h ow I approach the project, you know.

01:09:07.630 - 01:09:23.060

So they–they also follow me and they say, "Okay, I want you work on my next project in the Dallas area." "I want you to work on this project in Houston area." So—so all of a sudden now, not only the client relationship, now it's become a friend relationship as well too.

01:09:23.060 - 01:09:39.830

Because a lot of–a lot of clients that will become knowing one to the other. And then client always say, "Well. I want to sleep better, you know, I say, hire you, I can make me sleep better. Because I don't have to worry about all the detail, I don't have to worry about

01:09:40.160 - 01:09:59.210

how the thing put together, because you guys actually listen to my need and you were able to take care of everything." So I think having that kind of service for the client I think is–is very important, because they don't have to worry about anything. Just like when you go to a doctor, you don't need to w-worry about, "That

01:09:59.210 - 01:10:10.820

doctor really going to treat me well? And then they're going to taking care of me ?" I mean, you are holding in that, "Okay, I have issue. I need you to help me to solving it." And so we just only the problem solver to solve the issue for them, that's all.

01:10:13.240 - 01:10:29.320

Yeah, for sure. I guess to better specify or clarify my question, this philosophy that you're talking about, I guess I should have asked

01:10:29.320 - 01:10:43.960

this—if this philosophy was taught in school ? Like when you attended U of H, or is it just—yeah. Like, where did it come from? I think school—school never—at least school from U of H never taught us those kind of

01:10:43.960 - 01:11:02.600

thing because we really do not working on the actual design project, you know? But—but however, I think throughout the year, I have learned for all the project, walk in t he door, that the successful project and the happy client,

01:11:04.000 - 01:11:23.310

it's the one that we actually respect the client needs, and those are the ones turned out to be—clients feel that they engaged. You know, some client can—can be challenged in terms of their need, but

01:11:23.700 - 01:11:37.130

if you reason with them about what your design reason behind it, they're accepting it. Because partly because they don't know, you know, but once they hear you out...So I think, listen is very important.

01:11:37.130 - 01:11:52.260

Because if you tell me you need to have six different office and I only provide you four, well, I'm not listening to you. Why should you come to me for design, right ? So–so it's just like ha—even having a conversation and we say we go for a certain

01:11:52.260 - 01:12:03.900

place for lunch and then we end up going to somewhere else. You gonna thinking, "What? What this is about?" Right? So I think communication, especially for being—being a designer, we got to listen.

01:12:04.020 - 01:12:22.360

A-A-And I–I think this is what I have learned throughout the year. A-And I make my attitude very personal and also to my team as well, I say "We have to listen." And–and a lot of times when among ourselves, when we work on a project and–and then we start doing something else, I say,

01:12:22.360 - 01:12:38.220

"Hold on, what's the client say? What's—" And at the end of the day we say, "Okay, the client asked for this." I m ean, y-yes. This doesn't mean that we don't give clients extra, all the stuff . But if this particular item, that is not in it,

01:12:38.370 - 01:12:52.140

but we ask ourselves, "Is it necessary? We do it because we wanted to? Or we do it because it's a requirement for the ADA? Or we do it, it's because of—it only enhance the project, you know.

01:12:52.320 - 01:13:08.350

But keep that in mind, if we listen to what clients want and we get what they wanted, we respect their need. We also make a project fit the budget. And then when you fit the budget, we also important to fit within the scale.

01:13:08.350 - 01:13:25.930

T-T-T-The—that the time-timeframe like, "Okay if we timing move in three months, we made the deadline," things like that. So I think listen, it's very important, a-and that's based upon all the project I've done. And–and that I've—those project becomes successful is

01:13:25.930 - 01:13:41.160

because the client feel like we listen to them, you know ? So... Yeah, that perfectly answered my question. I have two more questions before we move more into your art, two

01:13:41.160 - 01:13:54.990

more questions on interior design. So looking at your resume, you have a LEED or L-E-E-D AP credential, which is a credential that distinguishes advanced knowledge in green building.

01:13:55.400 - 01:14:07.800

And so this is very interesting because you brought this up kind of in your earlier years, with the story with you and your grandparents and the flower. I thought that was really interesting.

01:14:07.800 - 01:14:24.450

So, I wanted to ask how important sustainability is in your work? Yeah, I think, sustainability is–is very important . Especially right now with all the material is so expensive and hard to get, you know. Not only just Houston, but everywhere.

01:14:28.610 - 01:14:42.560

Sustainability is very expensive for the client. Because even though this is being established for several years now. But to apply to it, it costs.

01:14:42.650 - 01:14:59.220

They–they have a silver level, gold level, you know, you name it. But for each level you require, upfront, of how we apply to it. And it cost a lot of money and also take a lot of paperwork. A lot of time, client don't want to do it because money issue.

01:14:59.970 - 01:15:14.000

And–and also think about right now. Money is is even harder right now for the client to spend, you know, certain dollar for—for the project. But it doesn't mean that we should not do the right thing for the client.

01:15:14.030 - 01:15:30.890

Like for example, a simple little thing, and I always tell my staff that even if you pick a material, majority material in–in a office space is–is your flooring, right? Flooring will be [unintellgible] carpet, okay, or some sort of tile or things like t

01:15:30.890 - 01:15:47.150

hat. Making sure the product is—it's green, it's recyclable, and is it healthy for environment. It will not cause any issue for any detox whatsoever.

01:15:47.150 - 01:16:03.500

And also within the 500 mile of Houston area. Because though you get a point for the green, s ustainability, things like that. And then–then also make client feel good, "Oh well I participate the

01:16:03.500 - 01:16:21.860

LEED, you know, L-E-E-D, you know, and I-I'm a part of green, you know, I'm part of solution." You know, o-or even just a–a pick a piece of furniture, for example: is their furniture made in–in the United States? You know, and–and then th-the furniture the subsurface is using the

01:16:21.860 - 01:16:39.440

right spray, you know, and they all apply to everyday clean air, you know, and so those are very important things. I mean, yes, there's some man-manufacturer h ave less expensive material and less expensive product.

01:16:41.100 - 01:16:58.170

But—and once again, I'm not because say that less expense is–is bad. It's just ask yourself, "Why this product A and product B?" There's a difference in there, making sure to pick the right s olution and right product f or your application.

01:16:58.170 - 01:17:15.370

And–and not only that, you've done your duty as a designer to pay attention to the environment, to the client's living space. And even client doesn't want to participate the LEED credit.

01:17:16.240 - 01:17:31.110

You—indirectly, you already put the first step, a first seed in their environment. Helped them, educate them to do the right thing already. And so if one of—if–if we all do our part, even

01:17:31.500 - 01:17:43.990

just 1/16 of it. 1/16 plus 1/16. Eventually, we are working all together as big–in–in a big pile of moving this LEED

01:17:43.990 - 01:17:59.220

forward, you know. And the only thing people–right now we are not moving forward as fast, it's partly because of–it costs money, it costs time, and also, not very many p

01:17:59.220 - 01:18:16.090

eople really know what really is about. So, without knowing what it's about, why should I participate? But at the same time, we need to educate. That's why our–our designer, we constantly having a continuing

01:18:16.090 - 01:18:28.720

education. An-and we need to meet our requirement as well too. So this is very important from us to the client, and hopefully the client will take it to their everyday, their own life as well too.

01:18:28.750 - 01:18:47.460

So... Yeah, this is the last question for this section before we move into art. From your observation, what is the interior designer community like in Houston? I think community in

01:18:47.460 - 01:19:06.180

Houston, overall, I think, we owe–every firm, everyone try to do the right thing for the project. That is, moving to the right direction using the green product, all the stuff. But, it is a challenge because of t

01:19:07.030 - 01:19:18.730

he budget, because of–it takes a lot of time to apply for it. And if the project's only three years old, o-only a client want to stay for a certain space for three years.

01:19:19.420 - 01:19:30.980

Lease is last thing they're going worry about. But we cannot do that just because it's only three years lease. We still got to respect. Anything we can do, we certainly do.

01:19:31.090 - 01:19:47.270

Try not to d-do something that need to be tear down for three year and then become a waste in–in–in–in our field and call it out in a drawing and say, "Okay, on your demolition plane, this material need to be recycled.

01:19:48.100 - 01:20:04.620

Don't just get dumped to the landfill for no reason." I think simple notes in the drawings make a huge difference in there. For–for every item to be recycled. Okay, and the landfill will not be a headache, things like that.

01:20:04.620 - 01:20:18.820

And also ask yourself, "Do we really necessarily use foreign countries' exotic species? Can we get even from United States?" Things like that. Just ask yourself.

01:20:18.820 - 01:20:35.000

Yes, I mean, who don't want to have the best project out there? But the question is use the product the right place, the right time. And–and–and I think, Houston being in the South, I think, in general,

01:20:35.780 - 01:20:46.920

some of the projects is hard to move along. Because people just feel like, "No. I–I don't want to apply for that. Is it necessary?" We are not caught up yet.

01:20:46.920 - 01:21:01.260

You know, and compared with East Coast and West Coast, they are more advanced. They–they have a lot of rule is already established. And then their requirement is even mo-more harder, I think, that–that for project to be completed. And think we need to do that in Houston

01:21:02.250 - 01:21:16.040

so that we can be–raise our level . Because it's–it's all our job. I mean, at the end of the day when this earth is not green anymore, we cannot stay here anymore.

01:21:16.040 - 01:21:32.060

So it's everyone's job. And I think it's up to the designer, is–oh if we talk about interior design, it's up to the designer that do our part and educate our client and make Houston to–to be a next place that

01:21:32.060 - 01:21:44.940

people think, "Oh, well, Houston is–it's on that des-design edge. You know, th-they are there. Not only they are have good design, good building, b ut they also respect the environment," things like that.

01:21:45.710 - 01:22:01.610

We only can be as good if we apply ourselves. And the only way to apply ourselves, it's really, we actually do it . So that–especially right now other city people start

01:22:01.610 - 01:22:13.130

moving in now. I mean, California, all the office move to T-Texas, especially Houston, right? And–and also a big firm have move around, you know,

01:22:13.340 - 01:22:27.470

resign their lease, you know, in Houston again. Or more reason we need to bring up to the level, you know, so that way we can be as good as East or West Coast or–or even just even better than, you know, another country.

01:22:27.470 - 01:22:41.810

I mean, after all, America is always on the leading edge of something. So, why can't we be the one to do that? So anyway... I see. So moving into your art: so in addition

01:22:42.290 - 01:22:58.700

to your very impressive interior design career, you also have extensive experience in displaying your art in various exhibits around Houston and other places in Texas and have upcoming exhibits in places such as New York and Spain, which is really exciting.

01:22:59.150 - 01:23:16.460

And so, more recently, you were hosted by Heidi Vaughan Fine Art and held an exhibit that contained your artistic work, such as mixed media objects, paper collages, sculptures, jewelry and paintings. And so I just wanted to ask you: what was this experience like for you as an artist?

01:23:18.660 - 01:23:36.110

I think was a good experience in terms of for people to see what interior design can do, as well as for them to understand that–that art has really no

01:23:37.140 - 01:23:53.120

boundary. Because when you design a certain thing, and design require–require, you know, drawing, require putting thing together. And so, in a sense, interior design

01:23:54.260 - 01:24:08.390

and art is really merge into one. A reason I say that is because the type, the–the a-artwork I'm doing is paper collage. It's abstract, geometric paper collage.

01:24:08.960 - 01:24:27.870

And paper collage is using a variety of d ifferent s hape and texture of the paper and building thing together an-and kind of assembling together and then I draw on top of stuff. It's pretty much a problem-solving for my interior design business,

01:24:27.870 - 01:24:45.450

like, you know, client need me to put this information, need to have this requirement, and I kind of assembling all the element together into the final drawings and that become a solution for the project. So, in a sense, any collage I do i-i

01:24:45.790 - 01:25:03.600

s a different element of–of the requirement, putting together. And–and–and at the end of the day, it's balance, you know, because for anything looks beautiful, you need to have balance. So it's not too much of certain thing, not enough of certain thing, and then create (?)

01:25:03.600 - 01:25:21.530

also having the layer to enhance the artwork stuff. So...also the–the drawing is not very big. So it is–if you just stand from a distance and kind

01:25:21.530 - 01:25:34.320

of passing through it, you lost all the detail. And then the intent is for people come closer, look at the drawing. And then they can look at it, collages, and because

01:25:34.590 - 01:25:50.200

it's abstract, so they can have their own final conclusion based upon their experience and say, "Oh yeah, I feel like I immersed in 'Cherry Blossoms' . You know, I am immersed in this–this, you know.

01:25:50.200 - 01:26:04.770

And–and–and especially after talking to the visitor, they–they come to look at the drawings and they say, "Oh yeah, I see that–I see that I'm in the bluebonnet field, you know, and I–I see it in the sunflower, you know.

01:26:04.770 - 01:26:18.920

I immersed in it, all the stuff." My drawing is not intend to be large so that you can see it from, like, you know, three foot away from it, you know . I want people coming in.

01:26:18.920 - 01:26:34.070

And then–then–then once they–they look at the drawing, they can see, "Oh, well, there's a lot of detail in there." One of the visitors say, "Oh. I thought that was print." But is–they are not print.

01:26:34.100 - 01:26:49.920

They are individually handmade paper and put them together. And then also people say, "Oh, well, the color was so vibrant." I say, "Yeah, the colors from nature." Like i-i-if it's a sunflower.

01:26:51.590 - 01:27:04.670

I picked that the sunflower,that yellow color and with a green leaf, you know, I picked the nature color. Every single thing in there is nature's color. And then af–people say, "Oh, it's so–so bright, so bold, so–" And

01:27:05.060 - 01:27:15.350

bright and bold is good, but I don't want misleading people thinking that being flashy, you know what I'm saying? That is–that is not intent. It's really colorful in the nature and also its

01:27:15.530 - 01:27:27.580

intent to tell people that nature is beautiful. Like pink lake. Pink lakes [unintelligible] have that–that pink an-and red color together. Okay?

01:27:27.580 - 01:27:41.990

It's [unintelligible] nature is beautiful. But if we don't take good care of it, nature will not be there forever. So each one is–is abstract, mimicking of nature. It's a map, you know, a map of human travel of the

01:27:41.990 - 01:27:56.210

certain destination. And I j–only use the–the color to mimicking the nature. But I using the–the line and shape and color to tie everything together. And line, shape, and color, it's basically what we learn in design school a

01:27:56.210 - 01:28:12.110

nd what we do for interior design. But yet at the same time, it's applied 100 percent in my collage. So in a sense, interior design, the design background knowledge I have merged in the collage, they are all merged in

01:28:12.110 - 01:28:31.670

one. And also, all my drawing was able to t ransform into a–a rug as a tapestry. You know, I won a national open call competition for interior designer. And they actually literally turned 8.5 by 11 small drawing

01:28:31.670 - 01:28:43.380

into the 5 foot by 7 foot rug. And then, they interpret it very, very good. It's very–did a very good job for it. So I was very impressed by–so...

01:28:43.380 - 01:28:56.020

what I'm trying to say is that there's no l imitation in term of the art, right? Our art really can be–can be anything–and I also have mobile in there too, and I also h ave sculpture in there.

01:28:56.020 - 01:29:12.760

So it's really kind of using what I have do every day for interior design, the space, and–and the different element, different detail. And then I kind of transform it into the collage at the same time.

01:29:12.760 - 01:29:24.700

And the mobile, and especially the collage is using the five element. Some allow people to touch it. Once they touch it, there's a sound of it. So it's kind of recall they say, "Okay, everything we do,

01:29:25.540 - 01:29:41.400

that's–that's a–it has a effect on our sur- surrounding," things like that. So hopefully everybody enjoyed it and–and engaged of what I've tried to say. At the end of the day is try to using the–d esign

01:29:45.590 - 01:30:00.640

can be the tool to help us kind of engage with what's surrounding us. It can be the solution for it, as well, you know. But by bringing–bringing the awareness of respect the

01:30:00.640 - 01:30:20.950

nature, because nature won't be here forever if we don't taking care of it. And they'll know it's up to us t o make a difference, things like that. Yeah. Would you say that your ethnic background influences your designs or art in any way?

01:30:20.980 - 01:30:37.270

Have you created any art with the influence of your Chinese background? Yeah, I think so, in a sense, because of five element, you know, is from Chinese philosophy or nature five basic element, right? And–and then those five elements, you know, water, wood,

01:30:37.300 - 01:30:52.990

fire, earth, metal. They really work together and then they need to be that particular sequence. I mean, imagine too much water, we have flood. Too much fire, we have forest fire in California area, right?

01:30:52.990 - 01:31:07.460

So everything had to be just right. And–and without the water, then the wood, the basic tree or any plant cannot grow. And without anything growing, then we cannot create fire.

01:31:07.480 - 01:31:21.520

So each one needs to be in the right sequence, right order, and right balance so that nature can be balanced. So those are the thing that I was learn–I was as a kid with my–from my grandmother.

01:31:21.850 - 01:31:37.050

And then also those are the things that it applied to four season and direction. Because north is water, south is fire. And each one also has a color too.

01:31:37.590 - 01:31:54.310

So I think they all tie together. And–and then also, it applied to interior design as well too. So I think in a sense, subconsciously, I do use those without thinking about that "oh, I was using a

01:31:54.310 - 01:32:14.240

fire element," things like that. Do you feel like you have a responsibility to fulfill as an Asian artist? Yeah, I think so. I think–I think every artist or designer, whatever,

01:32:14.960 - 01:32:29.210

I think we all have responsibility for everything, you know. Whether it is the designer or artist or-or even just writer or-or social worker, I think we all have a responsibility. And–and I think doing the right thing and–a nd–i

01:32:32.390 - 01:32:51.660

s important because I think especially coming out of COVID right now, you know, we all need do working together. And our responsibility is even greater than ever before because sooner we can be respectful of one or the other and working

01:32:51.660 - 01:33:08.280

together, then we can quickly back to pre-COVID condition because right now economy is really bad and everything is, you know, expensive. And then we still got war going on with, you know, in Russia area, things like that.

01:33:08.280 - 01:33:23.880

Just, you know, w-w-we got to get this back to normal. And so that way, you know, our newer generation, you know, that we all can have better life to live on, you know. I mean... we all can share this piece of pie.

01:33:24.450 - 01:33:41.130

But–but in order to share the pie, we all have to give in to something, you know. And–and then, whatever we do with the big and small, they are equally important, you know. As long we work on that first step.

01:33:41.720 - 01:33:58.170

So–so being an artist, I think is even more responsible for it, because we can express the idea t hrough the art, and art is a storytelling. It is–I–I believe it's storytelling, you know.

01:33:58.170 - 01:34:10.720

It's like telling a story what's really it's about and what–what I'm trying to convey, as much a writer try to write, right? They have to make idea, things like that. So I think being a-a artist is very important,

01:34:11.440 - 01:34:28.740

make a difference to the society, things like that. Do you ever feel artistic burnout and if so how do you overcome it? Well, right now, I hope I never get to that s tage because I've

01:34:28.740 - 01:34:43.380

got too much project in my head right now to do. And I got excited on every little thing, you know, which could be bad, you know, I need to focus on. And, like, right n-now I'm working on a jewelry, you know, I design certain thing. And then meanwhile, I got collage.

01:34:44.160 - 01:34:55.890

I already work on three different big pieces of the collage, you know, for my next project already. Even though I don't have an audience, like, who I'm going to show it to? You know? But I just have this idea constantly.

01:34:56.250 - 01:35:13.680

And then, I'm so afraid I lost my idea, so I constantly have a notebook here, you know, and just constantly draw in there and write a note in there so that I can quickly get the idea across. A-and then it can produce on the paper, things like that.

01:35:13.680 - 01:35:26.400

So hopefully I will never get into this stage, you know. So far I haven't because so far right now I got–I do not have enough time to finish the things that I want to do, especially all the design, all the drawings and all the collage I want to do, things like that.

01:35:26.400 - 01:35:40.170

So... Real quick: from your observation, what is the artist community like in Houston? I think in general, because I have a show in different city

01:35:40.930 - 01:35:55.950

this past year, and I–I feel like Houston is pretty good. I went to a couple city and I'm talking to other artists, I realized, Houston, we are very good.

01:35:55.950 - 01:36:11.790

We have–we have a variety of different gallery, right? And museum, we have the best, you know, whole wide world, a Museum of Fine Art here. And not only that, the Latin community also, they have their own, you know,

01:36:11.790 - 01:36:32.580

museum and they have their own inaugural ( ?) exhibition altogether. So I think by far, we are whole lot better than other city . And–and I think if we all can work together in terms of, like–art

01:36:32.580 - 01:36:48.290

is art. Why necessary have to say this is Latin art, this is Black art, or this is Asian art, blah, blah, blah. I mean if we all want to enjoy b eauty, does beauty really have a–a boundary?

01:36:48.290 - 01:37:06.870

You know? I think there's a whole bunch of room for everybody and–and we all can enjoy it. We all–every artist should and can and will have the opportunity to e xpress themselves. So I think Houston overall is–is–is good, you know?

01:37:06.870 - 01:37:17.020

Anyway... Yeah, for sure. We're coming to the concluding questions regarding your interior design and artwork before we get into family.

01:37:17.590 - 01:37:28.990

So the next question is: do you think of yourself primarily as an interior designer or an artist? Or do you just see yourself as both? I'm–I'm pretty sure I–I'm seeing myself as both.

01:37:29.650 - 01:37:44.280

I–I think one thing for sure is because I w ent to school for study in interior design, I really liking it. So once y-you-you're passionate about certain thing, I don't think you will never want to exit from it.

01:37:44.290 - 01:37:59.660

So, I think I will–every time when I s–go certain places, I think, "Oh, this can be designed this way." You know, my–my mind is already start thinking all this stuff. So I think once you're interior designer, you're forever interior designer–designer in my opinion, you know.

01:37:59.660 - 01:38:14.870

And then, also I look at things in the three dimensional way. And the three dimensional way I transfer that into my two dimensional drawings, things like that. So I'm constantly d–working on both at the same time.

01:38:14.870 - 01:38:30.050

And–and I'm glad I have th–that privilege. Because some artists, they only being artists and I think having both only enhance my work. And then I think that's why it's so easy for me working on the sculpture because

01:38:31.080 - 01:38:43.500

I'm designer, I have designed a space. I'm looking the world in the three dimensional space, so it's easy apply to my sculpture and also easy work on my collage, it has more three dimensional effect, things like that.

01:38:43.500 - 01:39:00.920

So I'm constantly working on both at the same time. Right, going off of that, you've definitely have answered this, but maybe if you could elaborate on this question: do your two careers, both as an interior designer and artist, overlap?

01:39:00.920 - 01:39:13.010

Or have you transitioned from one career to another? It seems like you're constantly working on both, but I just wanted to hear your thoughts reiterated. Yeah. Well, see, I'm–I'm–

01:39:14.290 - 01:39:31.530

I'm pretty sure I'm constantly working on both. The reason I say that is because even early years when–when I'm working on interior design, I'm also participate a lot of open call or visual art competition

01:39:31.530 - 01:39:45.390

or–or even just an exhibition in New York, all the stuff. The reason for that is, like, I just love to draw. I like to draw things, you know? A-a-and for interior design, we–we

01:39:45.420 - 01:40:00.010

draw–we draw in the–on the flat surface with a three dimensional world. And then we constantly combine things to make every detail work.

01:40:01.540 - 01:40:18.880

So that...give me the opportunity to–to work on the collage. And I think it's partly because of when I work in my master degree, that building the

01:40:18.880 - 01:40:35.590

model... versus doing the drawing, is day and night difference in there. A-a-and then that gave me the opportunity to adopt the world of collage, because one day my teacher walked in the studio say,

01:40:35.710 - 01:40:50.710

"Well, heck, this sure is a good looking drawing over here, all your design idea. Sure will be nice to turn into some product." I said, "Yeah, that would be good." Anyway, and so that I–that's–that started my first

01:40:52.540 - 01:41:08.650

collage-making and also greeting card. So I sold 300 greeting card first year before out of school. And I won the international competition. It was–got published all the stuff.

01:41:08.650 - 01:41:23.570

So I guess ideally I'm constantly working on the both at the same time. And I'm enjoying very much doing both at the same times. So, hopefully that answered your question. For sure, it totally did.

01:41:24.250 - 01:41:45.560

What are your insights on Asian or Asian American representation in the interior design scene or the art scene? Um...I think interior design, I just say before, client walk in,

01:41:45.580 - 01:42:03.290

I try to give them their need. And–and to...to design a space what is best suit for their culture. Whether or not I applied to Asian philosophy or not,

01:42:06.810 - 01:42:19.230

I...I don't think I intended or not intended at the same time, you know what I'm saying? Because the principle is there. Principles of the design and design philosophy is there.

01:42:19.230 - 01:42:34.160

So, I don't think I–I will be subconsciously I'm saying, "Oh, I applied this Asian philosophy in here," you know what I'm saying? And the same way for the paper collage. You know, collage right now, it's just because I love the topographic

01:42:34.160 - 01:42:46.520

view of the earth. So everything is topographic with this, t opographic that, you know. And–and so really it's a map, right? So–so map in the sense, if you look in the map, there's a lot of texture

01:42:46.520 - 01:43:02.090

and color and geographic shape, all the stuff. So, if you're going to say, "Okay, that's five element." Then in that case, okay, has an Asian philosophy to it. But if–if you think about other artists do nature too.

01:43:02.090 - 01:43:16.890

Can I say they're doing the philosophy of Asian art? You know, I–I think it just all depend on...what you want to interpret, you know. And–and I try to...I don't think

01:43:16.900 - 01:43:35.790

I-I-I'm intentionally want to say, "Oh, this is the Asian da-da-da-da-da." You know, I just do it just because oh, what I see surrounding us . And–but mainly because I'm very concerned about climate change. I'm very concerned about this beauty it no longer stay with us.

01:43:35.790 - 01:43:50.910

So I want to have something that–to capture that beauty at a current time. But yet at the same time bring up the awareness that, "Hey, you want to see this beautiful thing in [unintelligible] empire or Jacob's Well or–or

01:43:50.940 - 01:44:03.310

Pink Lake? We got to taking care of it." That's all it is. And then, whether it applied to Asian, you know, I think it's a little bit, you know. So it's up to–up to the viewer to answer that.

01:44:03.440 - 01:44:17.640

[laughs] For sure. Coming down to the last two questions of the section before moving into your family: what have been your proudest accomplishments in your career thus far?

01:44:17.640 - 01:44:36.280

And what do you hope to do in the future? I think for interior design of a– I was able to design a table with my senior designer for

01:44:36.280 - 01:44:55.920

Economic Summit. That's the table for all the nation get together and then they under one roof and for them to sign a whole bunch of important document and take place at Rice University as well too. So, I'm glad that I was able to be part of that–that

01:44:55.920 - 01:45:09.870

special historical moment. And I–I was able to find a project for the firm, you know, and–and working with senior designer in the firm at that time. And I–and I was able to come up with idea, being part of

01:45:09.870 - 01:45:22.570

process. And–and then and the design process really is merged. Two different kinds of wood together. And the whole idea is try to merge all the i dea together, whether it's from East

01:45:22.570 - 01:45:36.130

or West, because its eco-economic summit, you know. So that was a great project. And also there's many other projects throughout my career. There's one project it's called "Vital." It is combining

01:45:36.130 - 01:45:50.480

science and art together. And the company believing state of the art of the–how approach to the space. So, basically the entire project,

01:45:52.280 - 01:46:10.090

everyone is in their own office, but the office had no wall. Basically, there's a wall divide between my office to your office, but to enter the room, t hat does not have that wall over there.

01:46:10.090 - 01:46:23.640

So by all means, there's no wall on one side, there's no–definitely no door, so everybody walking in. To this space. A-A-And client believed that for them to work

01:46:23.820 - 01:46:38.780

together, they need to have an open area. But yet at the same time, to have their privacy at the same time. And then... there's two floor. So, this interconnect stair in there.

01:46:38.780 - 01:46:56.330

So, because they are the "geology-ish." So I use a lot of slate to represent the nature and also represent the earth they study. And I use the cable and a whole bunch material

01:46:58.260 - 01:47:18.960

that was used in their research combined together. And then that becomes a stair itself for them to interconnect themselves. So, there's a art and there's also science, because in order to make a stair work, you require, you know, very carefully calculated, otherwise, stair cannot stand up

01:47:18.960 - 01:47:31.770

by itself, things like that. So I think that's wh–that could be that my –really a big project of collage into the space without knowing I was working in a collage at that time.

01:47:31.770 - 01:47:48.660

And then also that won a special award for it because when I was hired for Ziegler Cooper, I was told by the principal say, "We haven't won interior design award for many years. I want you to lead a studio to able to won couple project.

01:47:48.660 - 01:48:02.590

And then–and then we want making sure that our firm back on the map again," you know. So we won, we won that project and for the best interior design, things like that. And also that was right before I had my daughter, I m–I was, like,

01:48:04.030 - 01:48:17.100

eight months pregnant or something. And a hot summer day, I had to go to a job s ite and hand sele–hand pick every individ-individual piece of the slate and, you know, put on the ground, you know.

01:48:17.100 - 01:48:30.720

And because that particular material, because slate from nature is inconsistent, because coming from nature. And–but we want to have a little bit kind of a–a better control of the color, how it flow.

01:48:30.730 - 01:48:46.210

So the contractor say, "We are not going to take the responsibility! You need to come." I say, "You're kidding me." And I was eight months pregnant with a big stomach and a hot summer day an-and all in–in the–the factory [sighs] I was like, "This is killing me," you know?

01:48:46.210 - 01:49:03.430

But I think seeing the result is very breathtaking. An-And then the client actually say, "You really combined the science and art together for us." So–so I think client's happy. And then by all means, as a designer, I think I did a good job for

01:49:03.430 - 01:49:22.250

them. So that the–the–the great moment in my life, able to work on those project. And, of course, for the–for the art, you know, I was able to–there's an open call last year, talking about try to protect our spring water.

01:49:22.860 - 01:49:35.320

And so I was using my collage... try to save our spring water. And so that the water, the collage was selected and they turned into a

01:49:35.320 - 01:49:50.680

kite. So it will fly over to–over the blue sky of Texas last year in Austin. And–and then–then so that became a travel exhibition around the United States. So, this year, right now, it's in San Marcos .

01:49:51.280 - 01:50:06.010

And still–the kite is still flying outside. And–and then now take it to the inside–in t he inside the San Marcos Library for people to view. So, I think bringing awareness of what's happening our environment is important, especially water.

01:50:06.040 - 01:50:21.140

Think about we drink water every day, think about our spring water get damaged and then that means our health got damaged. So I'm glad I'm able to be part of the, you know, part of the open call and then it can bring awareness

01:50:22.310 - 01:50:36.290

for the spring water. So, hopefully I can do more. I really want to do more about our environment, you know, so that way we can have a clean w orld to live in, things like that.

01:50:38.440 - 01:50:49.780

Sounds fascinating. So, thank you so much for answering all these questions about your career. It's all because you've just had such a long list of things that you've accomplished in your career.

01:50:49.780 - 01:51:02.980

So, I just had to ask about all of them. It was all so interesting. So, moving into family: if you feel comfortable sharing, when and how did you meet your husband?

01:51:04.030 - 01:51:23.230

I met my husband my first–my first year arrive United States. We arrive in United States in summer, summertime. And that I'm–and then–so once we arrived, we got to learn English, right? And then so my friend, a friend of mine say,

01:51:23.410 - 01:51:38.360

"Oh, well, we need somebody working at Wendy's because we need some help." And then I said, "Well, okay, this sounds kind of cool. Yeah, if I can–I can go to Wendy's to work little bit I still can get some money out of it.

01:51:38.390 - 01:51:48.170

Not bad idea," right? And maybe I can practice my English. So I asked my father if that would be okay. You know, he said–well, he said, "Well, as long you don't mess up your grade, you know,

01:51:48.170 - 01:52:04.010

that should be okay." Anyway, so, there's one weekend–I normally work on weekend only. Yeah, because Monday through Friday I had to go to school. So I wo–tha–that one particular weekend, I had to work on a–a–a weekend

01:52:04.010 - 01:52:19.260

because schedule got changed. And I was in the kitchen cleaning all the stuff, you know, and you know how kitchen in Wendy's, you know, and the stuff. And someone say to me, say hello to me in Chinese, you know.

01:52:19.260 - 01:52:36.370

And I don't recall anyone i-i-in the–the staff that is Chinese, they are all pretty much good old, you know, American style. So I turn around and obviously I didn't see my husband, you know, because I–in my mind it's, like, someone say Chinese, so I just kind of being silly about it, I'll turn

01:52:36.390 - 01:52:48.470

around looking for somebody Chinese. I didn't see, so I went back to work and someone say it again, you know. So after three "Hello, I'm here," stuff, I realized that was my husband say hi to me at that time.

01:52:48.470 - 01:53:01.560

But at that time we just friend, you know, and I say, "Oh my name is this–this." I said, "Oh, okay." And that was the end of the conversation, you know, it didn't go any further than that because I wasn't looking for boyfriend or friend or anything. I just, like, "Okay," you know.

01:53:01.560 - 01:53:11.280

And then besides my dad making very strict, you know, "Until you finish the school, you're not allowed to have dating anyone, blah, blah, blah," you know. All the Chinese culture, all that stuff. So it never occurred to me to think about.

01:53:12.130 - 01:53:29.170

And then that evening when I get home, I got a phone call. A-a-and it was my husband calling me and said, "Oh, by the way, I don't want to scare you, but I just want to let you know, I'm who and who from work.

01:53:29.170 - 01:53:47.110

And I just, I–I–I found out your name and phone number through the employee list." I was like, "Ugh, who would [unintelligible]" t hings like that. But anyway, that was–but that–let's don't go to the conversation. And say, "Oh, however, I-I'll give–give you my phone number and my address and put

01:53:47.110 - 01:53:58.810

it in the milk cart and right in front of your garage," you know. "And so–so if–if you have time, we can get together." I think–I thinking, "You got to be crazy." I said. "No, thank you!" And literally, I said.

01:53:58.810 - 01:54:13.420

I was very angry at that time, you know. And–but however I get the stuff out of house because I don't want anything outside, you know. Anyway, and then–and then, of course, he never give up, you know, he still calling me all the stuff. And so finally I say, "You know, it's just not very nice of

01:54:13.420 - 01:54:28.510

you calling me. I don't know who you are, la-da-da-da," you know. So bottom line, we started with very wrong foot altogether, you know. But–but later on when my–when–when we kind of have

01:54:28.510 - 01:54:41.860

other opportunity to get together at work, all the staff. I thinking, "Okay, he's not that bad." And then, because we just arrived in the United States and I don't know a lot of things and so my brother and sister needed help, I got nobody to ask question.

01:54:41.860 - 01:54:56.920

So, I start-started asking and say, "Well, my brother had to do this, this, this at school. What do you think? Where should I go? Where should I take her–o r take him?" You know, all the stuff. And then he said, "Oh, well have you tried this, this, this?" And–and–and then and he

01:54:56.920 - 01:55:10.840

also know, I just learned how to drive, he said, "Do you want me to take your brother a nd sister to go there? To go to library or go to th-the other places to do the research and things like that?" And I'm thinking, "Well, how safe is it to go with this stranger?" All that stuff,

01:55:11.380 - 01:55:26.170

you know? I said, "Well, it's okay. If you give me a address and I can look at the map to figure out all the stuff," you know? But anyway, through the different t hings that he's helping out with my brother and sister and coaching my brother and sister and me for English or stuff, you

01:55:26.170 - 01:55:39.990

know, so we can know one to the other. And that's how we met. We met at Wendy's because he–he speak Chinese to me and he was nice enough. And that's how we met. But unfortunately, my parents didn't approve–

01:55:40.360 - 01:55:48.430

wasn't approve of this kind of relationship. Because it's like, "Ugh! He's American. No way! You're Chinese. What were you thinking?" You know?

01:55:48.930 - 01:56:03.940

And I think, "Well..." and say, "Well, we're just friends." At the beginning we just friends. And they said, "Well, friend or not . No. You're not allowed to have." Like, "Ugh, all right." Anyway, and then–b ut then, you know, our friendship became deeper, you know?

01:56:03.940 - 01:56:21.970

And then...so we dated for seven years. And then he said, "Well, I think we should get married." I said, "You know my parents disapprove of it. No way we can get married." He said, "No, no, no, we should get married," all the

01:56:21.970 - 01:56:37.570

stuff. And to me–and that's why it took us seven years, you know. Took me a while just to say, "Okay, we get married." So I told him, "Okay, when I finish school, I will get married." So–so I–I literally get married the day after I graduate

01:56:37.570 - 01:56:51.120

from my master's degree. So–so I finished my first degree, he said, "Okay, we can get married now." I said, "No, I want to get my master." And then so–so–an-and then he said, "Well, how long is it going to take?" I said, "I don't know, 80 hours?

01:56:51.120 - 01:57:06.340

You tell me." And–and then so–so, I finished in one year. Not because of him, you know, because of money situation. So I finished that and then May the 14th is graduation. May the 15th is our–our wedding.

01:57:06.760 - 01:57:21.970

So, a couple of days ago we just celebrate our 35 year anniversary. We've been married for 35 years and dating for seven years. Yeah. So that's–that–that's our–our, you know, o ur story about my husband.

01:57:22.270 - 01:57:35.450

And he's an engineer, so, which is another extreme of–of a rts, you know? Because the engineers, like, "Engineering–" you know. Everything's like, "Oh, no, no, no, no, no," you know, things like that. So it's the opposite of it–everything.

01:57:35.450 - 01:57:47.570

So it's–it's a miracle that we survived to each other this long because it's such extreme, things like that. So, anyway, hopefully that answers your question, that you're asking about my husband, things like that.

01:57:48.780 - 01:58:01.230

It totally did. Yeah, that was so fun to hear. So you've mentioned that you have one daughter, and so does she express any artistic interest?

01:58:02.700 - 01:58:14.730

Uh, no. She–she know how hard to–she saw mommy, how hard worked to–to make a little bit money of it. Because interior design, we make minimum wage. I mean, you'd be surprised how much we make.

01:58:15.150 - 01:58:31.960

Only–only until the day I became associate principal, you know, I got huge pay increase, you know. And then also among the project I'm bringing to the office, so I was able to get a very reasonable pay for that.

01:58:31.970 - 01:58:48.380

In–In general, interior designer, we don't get paid as much. Even though, we do a lot of work on that. It's because it's society, how we view things and things like that. And then–and then–then–so no, she–she liked to

01:58:48.470 - 01:59:06.020

draw and I think she's very good at it. But I don't think she put her heart into it. And–and I think she's more interested in a–a different thing, which total okay with me.

01:59:06.350 - 01:59:22.310

We basically let her do whatever she wanted, and she end up choosing the field of study business. So she went to McCombs to study business. And so she did pretty well for herself as a financial

01:59:22.310 - 01:59:39.590

adviser, things like that, so... Does your daughter speak Mandarin-Chinese, and/or Taiwanese at home? Or is it primarily English? She is capable reading, writing, and speaking Chinese

01:59:40.550 - 02:00:00.080

. And with a few Taiwanese words here and there. Mainly because ever since she's kid, we–we sent her to Chinese school, so she can write and read and talk Chinese. And she enjoyed chat with my parents when they're h

02:00:00.080 - 02:00:15.620

ere. And when they're not–not here, she would pick up the phone, chat with them. So–so she enjoyed that part of it. And then at home, we tried to practice, but a lot of times because my husband cannot speak any Chinese words, so he feels left out.

02:00:15.620 - 02:00:26.390

And then my daughter comment was like, "Well, Daddy, if you learn, you will not feel left out," you know. He said, "Oh. Too hard for me to learn," you know, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so we don't speak as much.

02:00:26.390 - 02:00:44.720

But when my parents are around, we speak more because my parents cannot speak much English so that she can practice more. But at home, only when she want to say something about daddy, then she will say to me in Chinese so that daddy cannot hear her,

02:00:44.730 - 02:01:04.210

you know? Understand our conversation, things like that, so... Do you still practice Chinese traditions or holidays in your household? Yes, well, I try to. At least I feel like it's my responsibility, you know.

02:01:04.210 - 02:01:20.020

I want my daughter to know who she is and her culture, things like that. So not only we–we–we celebrate the Lunar–Chinese New Year, but every holiday that I can remember of, I try to introduce he r as well too.

02:01:20.020 - 02:01:32.110

And also for her to attend Chinese s chool, after the school program. They also have a–celebrate the holiday. So further for her to engage what's going on.

02:01:33.400 - 02:01:49.110

And that way she will know, "Oh, well the reason I eat," you know, "this particular dessert or this particular food is to celebrate a certain holiday," things like that, you know. And interesting enough that as much American she is, a

02:01:49.530 - 02:02:03.230

ll the food that she like to eat is all the Chinese food anyway. And–and then, she also talked to her friend in Chinese every so often, you know. And all–and I think 99% of her friends is all Chinese, you know.

02:02:03.230 - 02:02:13.460

So it's kind of interesting. [laughs] Anyway, but, so... Sounds great. We're going to move into our last section.

02:02:13.460 - 02:02:31.790

I just have a few–last section before our concluding questions, I just want to ask a few things about your community involvement. So you are or have been involved with several organizations such as the International Interior Design Association and

02:02:31.790 - 02:02:46.930

CREW to list a few? Can you speak on your experiences with these organizations or others? Well, for the interior design, that's really is the organization for all the registered interior designer and architect.

02:02:47.740 - 02:03:03.550

That the organization try to enhance the project and also incoming designer just out of school so that they feel like what society had done for interior design business. And also, there's a

02:03:04.030 - 02:03:22.180

big...range of the project and the history about, you know, all the well-established designer around the globe, not only just the United States, you know. And so there's always constantly events going on in the national level.

02:03:22.180 - 02:03:38.140

And also, like, next month, there's always a product i ntroduced at the NeoCon and it's called the–it's in Chicago, and it's happen somewhere once a year. And the only strictly put under the interior design business, so all the products under

02:03:38.140 - 02:03:53.630

one roof, you see what the latest innovative product, materials out there, things like that. So, I think the interior design idea–stuff i s very important not only for the designer at a different level altogether.

02:03:53.630 - 02:04:12.280

And also bring the world much closer because through the design, you know. Because, just I say before, design have no boundary. It really is, like, it's all–you can design everything: furniture, desk, space, drapery, you name it.

02:04:12.610 - 02:04:28.730

And then, for CREW, the reason I participate that one is because of–for interior designer, we also need to know what's going on in the market, you know. Because without the client, we cannot build things for the client.

02:04:29.000 - 02:04:42.110

So, if—when there's no project coming in, we have no business. So, we–we li-literally lean on each other. So joining the CREW is–is more for the commercial real estate executive woman.

02:04:42.110 - 02:04:57.590

And–and so we get together once a month, exchange information, see what is coming up and we also have a very well-known speaker to talk about what's going on with the market. And that was more than ten years ago.

02:04:57.630 - 02:05:14.390

That they already predict what's going to happen in the Galleria area, the master plan an-an-and who is coming, who is going and–and why is that? And the trend is already established. And they have went into a deep research a bout what–what is coming up for

02:05:14.390 - 02:05:29.550

the next couple of years, things like that. So, the–the knowledge is there and it's also very impactful work because that, it trickle down to our economy. It also trickle down to what type of thing you should–we should design

02:05:29.580 - 02:05:42.950

for it, you know. Because in the future, it's–it's all Hispanic, during the particular study. Then, if we don't have something more to their culture or their language or

02:05:42.950 - 02:05:58.610

their kind of look, they will not come, you know? So you got to know your market in order to d esign a well, healthy environment for them at the same time. Whether it's–the future is Hispanic or–or Asian whatsoever, we

02:05:58.610 - 02:06:17.370

need to know that–what–that information. And so join CREW is part of the enhance of the interior design . And also understand the market at the same time. So, I think every designer, I think they should at least participate one or two on

02:06:17.370 - 02:06:29.620

those kind of things because one sector is always related to the other. There's no such thing as, you know, one business only strictly here without a ny separation, things like that. So...

02:06:32.610 - 02:06:46.040

Have you gotten involved with the Chinese community in Houston? Yeah, Chinese [unintelligible] i-is mainly it's because of–part is my daughter go to school. And then so there's always activity going on.

02:06:46.250 - 02:07:01.830

There's always not only the holiday activity, but also the, you know, special e vent. A-and I think in the sense it brings the family together. You also know another family because I do not know very many

02:07:01.830 - 02:07:15.240

Chinese family here. And then my brother and sister not live here because one in Dallas, one in Austin. So it's even harder. So, having that Chinese culture thing and for parents able

02:07:15.240 - 02:07:31.980

to coaching with the kids and volunteer our time to helping out. Because there are times they–they have a, you know, the Independence Day f lag ceremony–ceremony, stuff like that. So my daughter was there, you know, raised the flag and

02:07:32.100 - 02:07:46.830

Chinese–Taiwanese Flag, you know, for the whole ceremony, all the stuff. So parents had to participate an-an-and help them and also, you know, put things together for them. And also–also have a–a speech, you know, my daughter

02:07:47.100 - 02:07:59.440

always in the speech, and then–and then they always had a different holiday speech, you know. And then so she had to practice her Chinese, had to speak in Chinese. And then also give a speech, all the stuff.

02:07:59.440 - 02:08:13.720

So, it involved with other parents, involved with the kids, involved with the community, all the stuff. And I think in a way it's good because when parents make a lead, then I think the kids can follow, you know.

02:08:13.720 - 02:08:31.150

And hopefully more and more people can do it like that. I think if I don't have a kid, I think chances are I probably doesn't involve as much, but because of her that I was able to involve further more. And talking about the dance, she was in the dance for all the Chinese

02:08:31.160 - 02:08:47.190

dance stuff. So, we do a lot of events, you know, and also practice especially for the holiday. She–she will out performing every single of p laces. I mean one–one New Year, Chinese New Year, I think she w

02:08:47.190 - 02:08:57.840

ent to eight different places. And then we had to change outfit in between. It was very challenging. And–and also, she always have a performance at Miller Outdoor, you know.

02:08:57.960 - 02:09:12.780

And–and also–also at a different theater, things like that. And I–we always joking, "I don't think I ever cel-celebrate Mother's Day for the–for the first 15–18 years of my–her–her life

02:09:13.320 - 02:09:27.630

." Because they always performs around Mother's Day, I don't know why that particular weekend. So, yes, w-we involve a lot of activity and we were very busy from one car to the next one, all the stuff.

02:09:27.630 - 02:09:41.340

And then sometimes it'll be three kids behind us with her classmate and then all changed, eating food in the t–in the back, you know, while we were driving take them to the Miller or, you know, taking to the next places. And then they had to do the practice run or do the homework in the car.

02:09:41.340 - 02:09:54.720

Yeah. So, yes, so having–having a—I will say that, yes, there's a lot of Chinese community activity that take place while my–my daughter growing up, things like that. So...

02:09:54.720 - 02:10:12.690

What do you see for the future of the Chinese community in Houston and further in America? I think we had gone to the stage that, you know, most of our parents are getting o ld, you know?

02:10:12.690 - 02:10:27.030

And then when they get old the–us, we're busy working because we also raise family, things like that. Or, you know, some of us, we–we–we live in different state, things like that.

02:10:27.030 - 02:10:44.720

And I see the Chinese community has a lot of older folks over there. And–and–and some of it, their kids is not with them. It's not by choice, you know, it's because some had to go to work in a different state or they had to taking care of their own kids, all the stuff.

02:10:44.730 - 02:11:00.120

So, we need to figure out a way that those older folks–but not only just Chinese community, the community in general–that we need to figure out a thing for them to do, you know. And feel that they're still engaged with society.

02:11:00.900 - 02:11:19.970

I think for them feel old, not only feel so feeling–feeling old, but when they feel like not needed, not important, that will make them feel old even faster. It will be nice to see that the kids can have some sort

02:11:19.970 - 02:11:36.540

of activity, visit them, you know. Like even just a–a drawing class, you know. Go and say, "Oh, today we're going to draw this." And have–have them have a drawing . Or–or–or the cello class have a performance for them to

02:11:36.540 - 02:11:53.370

hear. I'm sure they will be love to hear someone play music for them, but especially the song they grow up with. An-and I think that part of memory will then feel like for them feel young. O-or even have some sort of dance stuff, you know.

02:11:53.690 - 02:12:12.770

We–we all can learn together, so that they can gracefully have their retirement age and then feel like even without their kids nearby, they still have someone that the community...

02:12:12.770 - 02:12:27.800

it still welcomed them and gave a sense of warmth. So I would like to see more of the youngster or a-anyone can–we can put something together for them and we all do it together, you know? I'm–I'm pretty sure, I just make it up right now, you know, Rice University can have some

02:12:27.800 - 02:12:41.330

sort of events take place for this. And then everybody rotate it o-or even different school rotate or something like that. We all do something together. And then–it's hard to do the first time but–but once we have something going, you

02:12:41.330 - 02:13:00.030

know, an-and then–then, I think everybody can enjoy it. And pretty soon the–the this–this o rganization of the connect, of t he helping elderly, will be very, very healthy environment for them as well too, you know.

02:13:00.030 - 02:13:13.240

I mean, even for them to do some origami, you know, o-or drawing and listen to music, y ou know? Who don't want that, right? Do something that–I mean think about just them–them as our grandparents, you know. Because some really is our own parents.

02:13:13.240 - 02:13:26.710

And then have something for them to do, they will feel young. Or even help them to go to places, you know. Or–or help them to take a walk. I'm pretty sure that they want to go out the street an-and see the

02:13:26.710 - 02:13:47.230

sunshine instead of be cooped every day in their lonely apartment, things like that, you know. So anyway, just food for thought. So you've lived in different areas of Houston since you moved here. You know, right now you're living in Sugar Land, you've attended the University of

02:13:47.230 - 02:13:59.200

Houston, and things like that. So in your observation, how has Houston changed in the time that you've lived here? Well, I think the traffic is getting worse.

02:13:59.530 - 02:14:12.300

I mean, that go without saying, right? I mean, the week my daughter was home–which one was it? A couple weeks ago. She just got back from Norway and then we had to pick her up. Oh, no, she–she–she Uber in.

02:14:12.300 - 02:14:25.330

And the next day, we had to take her to haircut. From Bellaire to get a haircut, to Houston, where my gallery is, it took us more than one hour, almost two hours to get there. And that's ridiculous for the traffic.

02:14:25.330 - 02:14:35.740

And then we–we had to take her to airport. It took us two hours to get home. That is getting so bad. But that is a problem that–that–that require, you know, master

02:14:35.740 - 02:14:49.400

planning, you know, how to do things better, you know? Things like that. But in general though, there's a lot of school got built, right? And then also a lot of museum.

02:14:49.400 - 02:15:05.790

I mean, look at our Museum of Fine Art, it's, you know, we have a new one, you know. An-and–and also a lot of stores popping up, you know. Yes, after COVID, a lot of businesses got closed, you know, at the same time, too. But I'm pretty sure that, t

02:15:07.500 - 02:15:25.710

ake–in time, that in a lot of businesses can come back again, you know? So i-it, I think it's just like a cycle, you know, go up and down. And we are in a down—of–of the certain thing because we just got out of COVID. But a lot of thing is growing, you know, and hopefully that we only can grow into a

02:15:25.710 - 02:15:39.720

better community. And especially for the Houston, it's such an important place and we–we rank top ten, you know? So, w-we got to make our place, give them more people to attract, have more

02:15:39.720 - 02:15:55.350

businesses over here and bringing out the culture of the multi-million in the culture as well as the fine arts and the science. And we have best, you know, hospital in the world, you know? People come to us for help, you know?

02:15:55.590 - 02:16:10.030

So, we–we need to en-enhance our c ommunity and make it even better. So, I think we–we are in a good place, you know. And Houston is–is growing, not to mention, on top of that, you know?

02:16:10.030 - 02:16:23.440

So... Yeah, for sure. Coming to our last question before the concluding questions: since the COVID-19 pandemic, there's been an uptick in

02:16:23.440 - 02:16:36.510

anti-Asian hate crimes. And so do you have any thoughts you would like to share on that? Well, I think...people do

02:16:36.510 - 02:16:54.200

think—have certain reason, you know. When they get angry, frustrated, they want s olution, they want some change. And some people do it better than others, express

02:16:55.250 - 02:17:12.350

themselves of their anger. But, in general, I don't think violence or abuse language really can solve anything. It's only make matters worse.

02:17:12.930 - 02:17:30.800

But, at the same time, it doesn't mean that Asian community, that we should not be silent all the time, not to speak out of what we believing in. But culture had taught us that not to cause trouble, not s

02:17:30.800 - 02:17:43.350

ay things. Those are all good. But when the time is right, we also need to speak out what we believe in because we have as much equal right a

02:17:44.460 - 02:18:01.210

s other as well. But in the big picture, I think we all can express our idea and our frustration and–and o-our right. And the freedom of speech is matter how we

02:18:01.210 - 02:18:15.200

take it. I think sometimes people take it too far. Because everything, even the freedom of speech, there's still a–there is a boundary, boundary of not to

02:18:15.200 - 02:18:29.160

cross of hurting another mankind. It doesn't matter which race that is. So I think we need to respect each other. A-and then...using gun

02:18:29.190 - 02:18:41.890

or violence or verbal abuse language. It really doesn't go anywhere. It's only create more angry, you know?

02:18:41.890 - 02:18:58.460

And I think it's important having the–a good education from home. Because a lot of times what we do, we are miniature sized of our own parents, you know.

02:18:58.460 - 02:19:15.540

If we teach our kids that we are all equal, we all need to be kind to each other, and there's no such thing as a this race that race, then this should not be an issue, you know? But only if we don't taught our kids right, then

02:19:18.140 - 02:19:37.800

our kids will have a biased opinion toward others, you know. Especially for Chinese kids, th-the first day we learn how to rhyme the–all the famous philosophers say–philo–great philosophers taught us from day one: From the day we were

02:19:37.800 - 02:19:47.640

born. Mankind is kind. It's kind. We are–we are all kind. We are–w-we–there's no such thing as a bad people. We are all good people.

02:19:47.790 - 02:19:58.320

So if we are all good people, then why would it be a violence? We should ask ourselves, why would that be? It's because the friction. Friction is–is because of the expectation.

02:19:58.320 - 02:20:12.490

It's because of a point of view. It's okay we have a different point of view. But the question is the point of view, how it was raised, how it was take place, how are we going to solve it from here, you know

02:20:12.490 - 02:20:21.810

. We all come here really problem-solving. We are not come here to create problem. So we just need to have li–one way or the other. Things like that.

02:20:21.810 - 02:20:33.760

So... Thank you for your answer. So, coming down to our concluding questions now, do you identify as Chinese or Chinese-American?

02:20:35.860 - 02:20:47.920

Yeah, I saw that question. I was asking myself that one too, you know? I think I probably still identify myself as a Chinese . And no, nothing bad about being American.

02:20:48.070 - 02:21:02.050

I'm very proud that I can be proud of American as well too. But I think because I'm the first generation of immigrant, you know. If I'm on the second generation, I think I can–I can put myself into more

02:21:02.050 - 02:21:18.590

American? But because I'm still rooted with Taiwan, you know, and I'll grow up over there and–and I–my English is still bad, you know? I still have very strong accent. I don't think I can ever make myself

02:21:18.620 - 02:21:31.040

to be American, you know? I mean, I think America allow me to have a freedom of thinking, you know? I can be free express myself, both my art and my interior design.

02:21:31.490 - 02:21:49.230

I can talk about any subject I want to. I treasure that freedom, but indeed, I think I'll be forever Chinese no matter what. What are some of your favorite hobbies that are outside of your work?

02:21:49.380 - 02:22:03.820

Well, I love travel, you know. Before we have kids, we–we travel three times a year. We travel on anniversary, we travel around our–around our–our birthday.

02:22:03.820 - 02:22:15.130

We–our each other's birthday. And then we travel during the holiday. So we have three major holidays–three major travel. We go over to Australia, you know.

02:22:15.130 - 02:22:26.620

We go to Japan. I mean, you name it, we travel all the time. But because–after that we have our daughter, then it's hard to travel because school. We cannot travel in May, you know? I mean, still in school, things like that.

02:22:26.980 - 02:22:42.350

So w-we slow down a little bit. And then, finally she finished college, we were able to travel a little bit more and then COVID hit, we slowed down. But–but before COVID, though, we were–we were in

02:22:42.350 - 02:22:53.700

Alaska. And then before that we were in Mediterranean and all the stuff. So, we about already back to going traveling again. So I cannot wait. I enjoy travel.

02:22:53.700 - 02:23:08.440

So... Are there any local spots that you recommend in Houston? Well, I would say the Japanese garden, not far from Hermann Park.

02:23:08.920 - 02:23:27.450

I think that's a good place to visit. In compare with–they are not exact what Japanese garden, you know. I mean, but at least you can get a sense of it without feel like– travel to all the way to Japan, you know.

02:23:27.450 - 02:23:42.880

But i-i-it–I think they did a very good job of, you know, pursuing that kind of zen, quiet, you know, and peaceful, all that stuff. You know, you see the pond you see the–the f ish, things like that. So, I think it's a good place, you know?

02:23:42.880 - 02:23:55.740

And I think–there's a lot of places in Texas . Like–but, you know, we talk about Houston here. Houston, what else? That one's good.

02:23:55.770 - 02:24:10.160

Oh! Oh, then also the–the another park or garden, whatever you call it, right in front of the Museum of Science. And there's a name for it. And it just recent–like, it finished designing it a couple of years ago.

02:24:10.160 - 02:24:23.240

And in the middle, you go up to it, you know, and the waterfall coming down. I think that–I think they did a very good job for it. And all the greenery started growing now and then people also have private events over there, you know?

02:24:23.240 - 02:24:35.360

So I think that's a very nice park as well t oo. So I think those are nice one to visit. Yeah! I believe that one's called the McGovern Centennial Gardens? Yeah, something–very long name.

02:24:35.380 - 02:24:46.360

Right in front of museum–the science museum, you know. Yeah. Mhm. It's so beautiful. And our last question of this interview: W hat do

02:24:46.360 - 02:24:59.240

you want to be remembered for? Ooh. I remember, well...I would–I would like to accomplish what I'm doing,

02:25:00.360 - 02:25:11.940

bringing awareness of–of climate change, everything. Nature's not there forever. It's up to us to make a difference.

02:25:13.460 - 02:25:28.780

Whether I can get there or not...because it's a big job, y ou know? It's bigger than...I can handle. But I would like to say that I would like to–for people to remember t

02:25:29.980 - 02:25:49.010

hat the first generation of Asian kids come to America, is using her ability of design and artistic background, bring the world much healthier direction

02:25:49.790 - 02:26:03.360

to mankind. And if I can accomplish that and if I can just move a little bit for everybody surrounding it, that I feel like I didn't waste my trip ( ?). For–for my lifetime.

02:26:03.360 - 02:26:17.000

And I wanted for them to remember my art and my design for it, things like that. So... What a beautiful answer. Thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to

02:26:17.150 - 02:26:32.960

provide such detailed and comprehensive answers to all the questions I had for you. I really, really appreciate it and enjoyed this interview with you. Well, thank you very much for the opportunity. So, I think it's great that school is putting this wonderful program together so

02:26:32.960 - 02:26:48.980

that we can make this big gap of the culture thing getting closer. And also special for my daughter, this g eneration, that can e ngage with their history and their culture as well too.

02:26:49.000 - 02:27:01.480

So, I think it's–I didn't even know this program exists. So I'm so glad that I got an opportunity to kind of talk to you guys about it, things like that. So, thank you very much for the opportunity.

02:27:02.300 - 02:27:07.120

For sure. Thank you so much. I'm going to end the recording right now. Okay.