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Today is February 20, 2023. My name is Kevin. And my name is Jocelyn. We are with the Houston Asian American Archive.

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We'll be talking today with Dr. Stephen Yip, who is a Hong Kong-born composer who has had extensive music education and professional career. He has a doctorate in music from the Shepherd School, and he's currently a

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freelance composer, and he's on the faculty at Houston Community College. So thanks so much again for taking the time out of your day to talk with us. Thank you so much, yeah. Thank you Kevin and Jocelyn to have me here. Yeah.

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So our first question is, you know, basic question and it's at—where—when and where were you born? Okay, sure. When—I was born in 1971, it was in Hong Kong.

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Yeah, Hong Kong is like a small island. I think everybody knows it. So, China. Yeah. So by that time, it was a British colony. So, yeah, I was born there and grew up from Hong Kong.

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Yeah. Can you tell me about your household growing up? Were you part of a musical family? Yeah, sure. Well, we are kind of

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living in there and then away from my family, or we have—when I was a kid, we have three generations, my parents and my great grand–grandparents. And then we all living together in Hong Kong.

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My both parents are teachers, are school teachers, and we are kind of in the middle class. Not wealthy, but not too–too poor. And then—and we've, you know, seven people. Yeah, I have a siblings, older brother and younger sister.

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We all stay together in one, we call, flat. Yeah. So then, you know, in–in Hong Kong, and then we need to live in a high riser. It was just living together in about 700-something square feet. Actually, by that time, it was good.

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It was really good. If you have learned something about the recent things and then people has been very tough to living in a, like a 100 square feet. And then—but just—it's terrible.

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Yeah. And, but by that time, I think it was pretty good. And then, it was just living together and then have a pretty good living–living life. Yeah. My both parents, they work during the daytime.

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And we just have a—just like a normal kid. We went to school. We both like, parents are Catholic, have a religious and also—as–as well as my grandparents.

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So that's why we—all siblings, including me, we went to Catholic school. I went to elementary school. It was a boys’ school. Even the college. I mean, well, we call college the high school, it's also—it's a Catholic school.

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So after that, and then I went to the music school. And it-it’s a college, yeah. So and then–then after, in 1996, I graduated college, then I came to United States, it was a Houston, Texas.

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The one that you mentioned is Rice University Shepherd School of Music. Yeah. So and then I continue my post graduate program in a Master’s in music and Doctorate’s in music, and then finish up both degrees. And in Hong Kong—oh, I might want to say a little bit

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more about—it was very interesting. By that time, we have a lot of people living—I mean, moving apart from the place. As I mentioned, it was a British colony.

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And then you might have heard about in 1997, it was returned back to China completely. Yeah. So—but I didn't really did it on purpose. But I'm just graduated in 1996.

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And then I left, and then looking for graduate school, and then just see where do I want to go? I applied to some other schools as well. And then not only in the United States, and then I applied for England.

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Yeah. So I remember I applied for World College Music. Well, Morton College of Music, and then just—somehow I'm just—'cause I come to the United States in Houston. Yeah. So and—yeah, until now.

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So. You mentioned that your parents were both school teachers. What–what did they teach? Actually, my dad was a school principal.

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Yeah. So he was a—like a school director and then he just try to oversee the–the entire school. And my mom, well—but I think, I don't know what subject did my dad teach.

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But because he was the school principal, he doesn't need to teach. So—but I remember he kind of a substitute. Sometimes he might need to teach something, but I forgot what was it. But he was kind of a history–was a language.

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Yeah. Like a Chinese language. And—yes. And my mom, she was a-a-a elementary school teacher. I think she teach—I don't know.

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[laughs] I don't know what subject, yeah. So I think it's more like a science of something. Yeah. Because she is very interested in paintings, like doing trees, and flowers things.

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And then she knows a lot of about the paintings. Plantations, things. Yeah. So I guess it could be science. Yeah. So because this her interest.

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Yeah. How did you initially get interested in music? As a child? Did you play any instruments growing up? Yeah, that's a very good question.

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Yeah. Because—well, when I was young, it was very interesting. I always want to become a policeman. After I got some kind of a ranking, I might become a soldier. And then if I serve a certain years for the country, I would like to becomes a

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president in Hong Kong, then I will be like, oversee the whole Hong Kong and then to happy people. Yeah, this is my idea. But somehow—and then, I don't know when, and—maybe I still young, and then my dad just bought a piano.

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I think my older brother was the first one to have a chance to learn piano. Then, he had a—actually, he did pretty well. And then he performed, and then he-he plays pretty good. And then my youngest sister pick it up.

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And somehow, both of them drop–drop off. And then–and then my dad just doesn't want to waste the piano. And then just let me to play it. Yeah. So—but I continue to do this.

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But meanwhile, I'm still doing pretty good in sports, like playing basketball, and then play a ping pong, the table tennis. And then I was in the school team, as well, and then to play basketball. So just my childhood is just like a very, like

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a active–active guy, yeah, you know, just playing around and then running, I-I run pretty fast, too. But I don't know, somehow when I turned 14, or 15, I'm just slowing down my speed. Even very, very slow.

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And then now, don't ask me to do the running. So it's not too good. Yeah. So, but—and also, besides playing piano, and then I like playing some string instruments.

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And also I—by that time, I play—they call electone. Electone is like a electric organ. There's a brand called Yamaha. And then by that time, it was very, very famous in 80s,

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'82-'83. And then I'm just come across, and I'm really interested to playing that. And just thank you so much for my parents. And then they both very—very, very supportive.

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Yeah, it was very quite expensive to buy electone by that time. Yeah, then but they just bought it for me. And then also, we have a very strong religious background. And then we—when I was pretty young, we went to church.

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And then I'll—somehow, when I was about 14 years old, I had a good chance to become a organist at Catholic Church. So I serve Mass every Sunday. So and then, until now, yeah, I'm still doing this job.

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Yeah. So, somehow, maybe when I perform, or—by that time I was a kid, I just have no idea about the service. Yeah. I'm just playing about—I'm just playing some music, whatever. And then just becomes pretty decent.

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Yeah. And as a person, you know, playing organ things, and then stepping the pedals, and then play pretty cool. Yeah. And—but somehow my thought and my brain is quite—little bit different. I would say—now, I would say creative, but by that time, I don't know what

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happened. Yeah, but just—I just want to. And also, by that time, we have things called Walkman. Walkman is, you might know what is it, yeah, it's like a—just like a cassette and then–and then you can record things.

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And then my mum bought it for me, I remember and then I just want to record things. I prefer to hear some noise, song, or very acoustic things. Just collection, have some more–more collection, I do some instruments. I think guitar, whatever, piano, organ, and then—just like a live

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recording, and then even putting some have or some cans, or garbage you know, just making noise becomes a percussion instrument and then do a lot of collection the sound and just put them together and somehow it quite satisfy my–my thought

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I want to do that. And then just I remember I still keeping some type of cassette tapes, and including some different kinds of recordings. Some are pretty much imitating recorder electronic music.

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But, of course, by the time I was a kid, I didn't know what was it, just to have no idea what was the electronic music, but somehow I think I did that. So I don't know. So just many, many different things.

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And then—and back to 80s, and then we—very pop—it's very popular. We listen to LP. And then—and I just like to listen to a lot of different experimental, experimental music.

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So those type of like a very avant garde or different Well, I just as a kid, I don't listen to certain pop music, either. I'm not too interested. I don't know what happened. Yes, maybe my—some problem here.

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So and then I'm just looking for some cover very, weird band or some song artists. And then they have some LPs. Like every Saturday, I went to a, like a music shop

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to-to-to buy some LPs, and then listen to those. And so—and I will say just–just come from everything. Yeah, everything's happening in my life, just becoming the very strong intention.

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Finally, and then I think I would like to go to this area. So that's why after graduating from high school, I would just applied for the school called the Hong Kong Academy for Performing Arts. So it was like a music school, it's the only music school in Hong Kong at that

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time. It was a 1991–1991. Yeah. And then after that becomes my long journey, and then be educated, formal tr—get the formal training. And then—yeah, after finishing my bachelor degree, and then came to the

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States, go on to my graduate school. So. Growing up, did you have any important early mentors or musical, you know, teachers?

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Well, yes. In Hong Kong, it's really nice. I have a very good teacher who is a—like a—his name's Loring Fine (?). He inspires me a lot.

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And he—because he doesn't, he didn't really only teach me how to compose. He just gives me a very clear and good concept about the art. So because people study music, they just thought maybe they just compose music. But–but after the encounter with

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him, and then I will just sing—open my mind. And then just, it's a very important, yeah. And then just, I'm getting to know what is art. And then it's not just about music.

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It's all about everything. Yeah. So—and of course, before I-I went to the school, and then to-to met—to meet him, and then I have a couple important mentors, I would say, and then they gave me a very strong foundation

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to learn, to study music, but those—by that time they are very old. Yeah, they are like—by that time, let me see, 1990s early—or late 80s and early 90s. And then they were already 70-something.

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They were like a—the—one of those older generations, composers in Hong Kong. But by that time, I still have a chance to meet different composers in Hong Kong, and then to just talk to them and then just try to learn from them and then just see, what did they do?

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And also, you might know, Hong Kong was a British colony. But meanwhile, there's some different areas. Some people, they are from China, they still have a very strong root and style, musical style, and then bring it from the

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Chinese–Chinese style. Yeah. So then have a very fusion to see everything. But the interesting thing is when I was in Hong Kong, I show no interest in Chinese culture and Chinese musical

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art. Not until I came to the United States, I'm just have a, digging out these things and then just have been very, very crazy to learn the Asian art, and then just—especially Japanese art is very—my—like a top interest.

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Yeah. So yeah. And then when I came to the States, and then it's a lot of–lot of opportunities, and then I went to the master class and then traveling some—anywhere then to-to meet the masters.

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And then, so I should—well, I don't have to mention all the names. It's like, all kinds of the names. And just, yeah. Can you tell me more about—I want to go back kind of to your

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parents? You know, you said they were very supportive of your musical education. But more directly, what sort of values did your parents emphasize in your upbringing? And how have the values kind of influenced your current musical and

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non-musical pursuits? Well, the thing is—they just let me do whatever I like to do. This is one of things is very important, and I'm really appreciate that.

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And then, you know, just, they don't really like some harder, current parents. You know–you know, in—nowaday, when you go back to Hong Kong, like a lot of a tiger mom and then they want you to do this and that and that.

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I was lucky. I was not born in this generation, back to 70s or early 80s. And then my parents is pretty hands-on. Yeah, they—perhaps they–they were very busy.

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This is the maybe the point, they were busy, alright, it's something which means they didn't have much time to really get involved in my life. So—but the–the good thing is that they just give me the opportunities. And then I just—oh, somehow, they didn't really give

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me some—any, like, expectation, and then requirements, whatever. And then—and I was surprised my–my parents let me study music, and even conversation. Yeah, you know, this is not like a–like a, the typical Asian kids would like to go for.

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Yeah. And then they may—you know, the Asian kids they may—the parents may want them to be a, like a lawyer, maybe medical field, whatever. Yeah. So–so that's why I was quite lucky in these things. Yeah. So yeah, maybe it's a good question.

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I should ask them tomorrow. [laughs] We'll call them—they–they both are still in Hong Kong. Yeah. So and then, maybe I should have like a good conversation starting with these topics.

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Yeah. So we can do a part two, right? [laughs] No, absolutely. Have your parents—well, I assume your parents have seen you, you know,

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perform your work or have seen your works, like, been performed. How has their reaction kind of changed throughout the years, if they have changed at all? Yeah, so you know—nowadays, I think not even my parents—maybe

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if I invited you both, Kevin and Jocelyn, to come to listen to my concert. Maybe you guys are—it's okay. Yeah. Because we are talking about the 21st century. Yeah, you know, I'm not the guy to compose something back to like, it'd be called

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Beethoven. Mozart, not even Stravinsky. Yeah. But then, we are talking about like—and–and also I would like to really stepping more forward. The road, we might say avant garde, and then a more experimental, yeah.

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So I don't want to just going somebody's foot-footstep and then to do this, and somehow the music is going to maybe scare you guys and—or maybe scare to some older people. But–but back to your question.

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Yes. I didn't know. I remember the first time it was my undergraduate school, my recital, my graduate recital. I think my mom didn't come.

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But my dad came. He didn't say anything. So, but the–but—you–you can expecting my music was pretty extreme. Yeah, I know by that time, 90s—back to 90s, it's quite not the, like a normal people would listen.

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Yeah. And then, but he didn't complain and didn't really say something about this kind of contemporary modernism, yeah, music, yeah. So and—I know, so–so this is about the-the art.

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If parents let the children—let their children to study like this kind of contemporary art. And then maybe they should expect to something they do not know, they don't understand, but would like to accept or open their

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mind and then to–to see the things to see the real "what happened." Yeah. And I think it's also important to all the, I would say, different—any people, yeah, you know, just–just like, we're just like this. Yeah, I'd be on the—kind of up there.

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And the it's not for everyone. Even though I have CDs, and then I can give it to you guys. And–and maybe another day, you might notice, "What is that? It's the crazy." And then–and then maybe trash it.

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Yeah, whatever, yeah. But, it's a-another question to bring up to the contemporary art, contemporary music. Yeah. And then just—we would like to see, how do we just really—not educate, but just share something or the new thinking

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new mind to everyone? Just—we might don't expecting something we know, there's a lot of things we do not know, or we'd never listened. But it is there.

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And even it might be leading the whole contemporary art. So we don't have to pioneer and then we never see the thing is moving on. So we just always stuck in–in the—back to—like a, whatever, like, maybe 19th century, even 18th century, the–the

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musical art order, or the art form does not go yeah. It's have to going forward. Yeah. So, but yes, my parents never questioned me. I know they do not understand.

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But sometimes I'm just kind of teasing them, and then just—"you want me to sing some song with you, and then play some music you like to play—to listen?" And then—but we have a lot of good time in Hong Kong when–when I was a kid, and then—because I'm not like a very stubborn person, and they are–they are not,

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too, yeah, then we always—we make jokes and then playing each other and then teasing each other. Yeah. So it's very relaxed and happy moments. A lot of good time there, yeah. Happy to hear that. I think you also brought up a–a good point about, you know, like,

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contemporary art, or like conceptual art being, you know, it's more like a display and it doesn't have to solve anything, you know. I guess moving on, you—in Hong Kong, you attended the United Academy of Music. You attend the Hong Kong Academy for performing arts, and then you also

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received a BFA in Hong Kong. So can you talk more about your education in Hong Kong? And kind of some of the cultural differences, especially in music education in the US, and [SY: Sure.] Hong Kong.

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Okay. Yeah. So, well, go back to I think I may be starting talking about something, I would say college or—college, yeah, because after I finished my high school, I went to a kind of a pre college institute to learn western music.

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Well, as I mentioned, back to early 90s or late 80s, Hong Kong was still a very British colony. It's like a very British style. Professors, teachers, they really teach you in the English

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well—En-English way. So even all the terms, the musical terms we studied, was British or European term. Yeah. So like, "How do you describe this, this, this, this," and then it's pretty–pretty different than when I came to the United States.

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Okay, but of course, this is not very important. Yeah, but–but the way when we study, we study Western–Western musical art, and also all the artwork like visual art, and then all the painting, architecture, everything's when you went to Hong Kong.

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I still remember when I was in Hong Kong, we live in the place in Hong Kong island called Wan Chai. Wan Chai is like a place is—it picks up a lot of historical things, such as the building's architecture.

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I remember when I was kid, I went to see the dentist. Wow, the place is very beautiful. Very European, like—it seems like you go—you went to Europe and then there's a, like a–like a small pathway, looks like a garden–looks like a garden, and then you

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would see the–the fountains and then you go to the like a—kind of like a beautiful house with the wood floor and then going up, and then the second floor, and then I'll see the dentist, and then we just sit down there and then to–to–to–to exam our tooth. Yeah, I really liked that area.

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And then besides that, it was like a–like a playground for–for–for kids. Very unfortunate (?). And then after years, everything's turned down. Yeah. So all these buildings turns down. Yeah. So it's about—because 1997

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when Hong Kong was returned back to China. This is only the—not only the–the one thing, and then many, many different things. It's also interesting. I-I—sometimes I Google the pictures in Hong Kong even back to

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‘30s or ‘40s. I cannot imagine that was Hong Kong. I thought it was Europe. I thought it was Europe. Yeah. So because wow, when I look at that, how come this Nathan Street, one of

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the main major street in Kowloon, and also the Hong Kong—the Guster (?) Road, and then everything's—you know, just besides that is a sea, and then another thing is like a–like a tram rail–tram rail, yeah. And then we can see the everything's—the building, everything's very European.

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Yeah. So anyway, I don't go too far, yeah. Back to my—your question. Yeah. And—yes, when I study, everything's—when the teacher taught us and then everything, we will just following—or have a very good

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chance to learn the Western way. Western way like Beethoven, Mozart or Bach, we learned a few. Everything's very, very Western. When I went to college, the Hong Kong Academy of Performing Arts.

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And then we have a Chinese music department. And then they were just next to our composition department. We were just next to each other. But somehow, I just don't know what happened.

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I just have no interest to learn that. But I—well, it's not my fault. Because the whole atmosphere in Hong Kong, just whatever, when, when you have kid and then you just have a very strong favor to

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learn the Western way to learn the Western way. So and then when we want to go to dinner, go to whatever restaurant we will prefer to goes to like to eat like, Western restaurant. So not too many Chinese restaurant we would like the kid would like

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to prefer, yeah. Like, like a very restaurant. Yeah. Like you would like the hamburger, pizza, or spaghetti. Yeah. But rather than, like, like dumplings, whatever. It's kind of a little bit old school.

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Yeah, some Shanghai restaurant in Hong Kong by that time was quite good. I remember that. Yeah. And then—but I played where to–to went there to eat. Yeah. So I think I—can you

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repeat again your question? [laughs] I went too far. No–no worries. Yeah. No, it's regardless it's interesting to hear about, like, all of your experiences.

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But the question was, I guess, differences in musical education, like culture in [SY: Sure.] in the US, and [SY: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, this one—] you kind of touched upon already. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So actually, there's another thing I think I want to mention,

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after I came to the United States for my post-grad studies, and—this is very interesting when I was in Hong Kong, we have a lot of syllabi, whatever the circumstance, and then it's—everything, the–the coursework is already set.

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Just like—we just sit there and then, "We are going to do this," instead of, "I'm going to choose what I want to do." So this is a one of the kinds of things is quite surprising me when I went to Rice. It seems I have many choice.

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I can take this, this, this, this. And then I remember because I was a–a graduate assistant, which means I don't need to pay my tuition, whatever how many course I take, I don't need to pay. I don't need pay, it's free.

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So, and then I remember I can take, like, languages, I can—because it was required. I can take, like, Italian, and then but—because I like French, and then—but I'm asking some of my friends and it is difficult.

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And then but how–however, finally I-I took Italian, and then—and just a lot of different things I can do it and then just, all free. Free which means not even the course, you are free to choose whatever you like to do. Yeah, so and then just—it's like a

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paradise I remember by that time just—because I don't have to worry about my financial situation and then everything's covered and then I'm just need to do some gradings. Maybe a teaching assistant because I got the assistantship, yeah, and then—just was really happy by that time, just whatever just want a

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new—whatever I want to learn whatever I want to do, and then spending time in the library, yeah, and then just be happy. Rice just gave me a very, very good opportunities and the environment for my graduate studies.

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Yeah, this is just—really appreciate that. Yeah. So, going to your move to the US, your immigration here. [SY: Yeah.] Did—you mentioned, you know, it was paradise, it was

00:30:08.840 - 00:30:27.410

overall a great experience, especially studying at Rice. But were there any challenges you encountered when you initially moved here? You know, like culture shock, or any other experience? Well, maybe I just make a joke for

00:30:27.410 - 00:30:43.500

us. Yeah. [laughs] I hope you don't mind. Actually, the very first time I came to United States, it was 1995. I went to Aspen, Colorado to attend like 10 weeks—I think more than ten weeks, I stayed a little bit longer.

00:30:43.500 - 00:30:56.650

Wow, the first time I went to the Aspen, Colorado, wow, it was very, very beautiful. You know, it's a slope mountain. And so we will do the—it's skating, yeah, and then—it's very pretty. And then also, everything's free.

00:30:56.650 - 00:31:08.830

And then we also we got the full scholarship. And then wow, just was another paradise. Yeah. And then, after that '96 I think I decide, "I need to go to—I want to go to United States to study.

00:31:10.000 - 00:31:27.010

But somehow I-I—actually my first choice was in London, I want to go to the Royal College of Music. Yeah. But somehow, you know, the financial things. And then Rice offered me very good things. Then I came to Houston, I was very disappointed when I get off

00:31:27.010 - 00:31:43.090

on the airport. And then–then when I took the taxi, the cab, and then everything, just pack my things. And then when you step into the city, and then, "Wow, what happened?" [laughs] But after someone told me already, they told me Aspen is not

00:31:44.220 - 00:31:55.890

the–the real United States. [laughs] It's like something else. Yeah. So if you want to see the real United States, you should go to the Manhattan, the New York, whatever, some like that, you want to see the real things.

00:31:56.320 - 00:32:14.440

But anyway, this is just a joke here. Back to the culture or the challenging things, and—I think maybe I'm still a—quite a positive person. When I think—I just pretty much—when I came–came to the–the

00:32:15.330 - 00:32:28.570

Houston, Texas, yeah, in '96. I adjust very, very quick. Because still, when I went to the apartment to see, it's nice compared to the–the living qualities in Hong Kong, and then

00:32:28.570 - 00:32:43.050

wow, just—and then I took the–the—like a driving lesson. And then in about three or four days, the guy shouldn't let me do the exam that quick. Yeah. The third day I went to the freeway, yeah.

00:32:43.680 - 00:32:52.020

And he, "Ah, go, go, go, go." [laughs] And then the fourth day or fifth day, and then I took the test, and then—but I passed. Yeah, but it's not a good thing. Yeah. Then I—but–but–but anyway.

00:32:52.390 - 00:33:06.730

I drove, and then just going somewhere and then to find place to eat and then to go where to—I want to go, and then it's–it's very free. And then—yeah, I've seemed I'm not answering your question. [laughs] It's still—it's so happy.

00:33:06.730 - 00:33:22.990

Yeah. So, but anyway, the challenging things, I think could be something that I need to put more control to myself, but not just finding the fun. Maybe it was too much fun.

00:33:22.990 - 00:33:33.560

Yeah, I would say maybe too much fun. Yeah. So because I was just so enjoy staying in the campus. When I came to Rice. Yeah, this is true.

00:33:34.140 - 00:33:43.040

I just stay most of the time in the library. And then we have the TA room as well. In the Shepherd School of Music, we have a TA room. And then me and another good friend, he's from—I

00:33:45.680 - 00:34:00.900

forgot where, I think it's Spain or something. Yeah, and then—but we are very good friends, and then with another guy is an undergrad student, but he–he was–he was not in our group in the–in the TA room but–but we always went to the gym to–to play badminton, and then doing something, and

00:34:01.370 - 00:34:13.430

then—still having a lot of fun. Yeah, so but I study well. Yeah. So even though I have too much fun, but I'm still working hard. And then as things I pretty enjoy my life, in–in

00:34:15.590 - 00:34:29.610

campus. Yeah. And also with the people there. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm sorry, I just maybe didn't really find too many cultural bomb or, like, a challenge. Yeah. No worries.

00:34:29.610 - 00:34:49.500

[SY: laughs] Great that you had such a good experience. You know, I think that's–that's a good [SY: Yeah.] to have a life like that. Perhaps maybe it's just so long, because we are talking about something 20 years—more than 20 years ago, maybe I might have a short moment, but I

00:34:49.500 - 00:35:06.360

just forgot it, this is just so long time ago. Now, it just becomes an old guy, yeah, talking about the [laughs] the old things. So, yes. So with regards to music, I guess you

00:35:06.360 - 00:35:19.980

had—you probably had a certain expectation of what music was like in the West or in the US. Did—in general, did the music scene in the US kind of match with your expectations of what you had?

00:35:22.790 - 00:35:38.490

Well, this is a–this is a challenging question, actually. Yeah. [laughs] So, well, when I compose music, and it's–it's–it's quite difficult, you know, just when

00:35:38.810 - 00:35:57.140

nowadays—even talking about now, yeah, it's not so easy to really promote our music, and then to do—even though I got some CDs or publishing my score here, but even though the musical art is art, is not a, like a, things

00:35:58.620 - 00:36:16.030

to talk about making money or whatever. It's not that. And then—but we have to be very, very—have a very strong mind to ourself to continue to do this, I would say, mission.

00:36:16.690 - 00:36:34.600

But meanwhile, if this is the thing that you really want to do, it's your, like—not even interest, it's just like, you want to just—not challenging yourself, and you just dedicate your life or your person into this

00:36:35.770 - 00:36:51.310

musical art. You just have to just go and go and go, whatever. You don't make any profit or don't have anything you have to just try to make yourself becomes this. Yeah, you cannot just give up.

00:36:51.310 - 00:37:03.100

Yeah. So I know, it's—there was a couple of times. And then just for example, after I finished my doctoral degree, I was looking for a job. Well, actually, I was already—I was lucky.

00:37:03.120 - 00:37:18.150

I got a job already. And the–and then during the immigration and then things and then trying to become US citizens. And then—but those I at least the whole year, I didn't compose anything. Zero–zero products, yeah.

00:37:18.360 - 00:37:31.620

So no–no music. Yeah. So I'm just playing the organ at the church, and they busy to teaching students and then blah, blah, blah, and this and then—just keep myself busy. And working on my immigration and then and then years.

00:37:31.720 - 00:37:47.050

And also didn't travel too much because the status, I need to moving from international student to become like a, called green card. Yeah, the–the residency. Yeah, but just didn't really compose.

00:37:47.440 - 00:38:05.480

But however, when I look back, I think I was not happy. Yeah. Yeah, I was not happy. And even now, yeah, so every time if I don't compose if I really don't create something, it seems quite

00:38:05.880 - 00:38:19.020

empty. To myself. Yeah. So which means I need to compose. I need to work on it. Yeah. So after I compose, and then everything's, they need to be—just you

00:38:19.070 - 00:38:30.170

will–you will need to prepare to—for everything. Yeah, prepare to look for performers. If you've got a chance, good chance. Like recently, I got a good commission, and then very good friends is a violinist.

00:38:30.480 - 00:38:48.780

His name's Patrick Yim, and then as a professor in Notre Dame University, and then he gave me a commission to write a piece for violin and Erhu. There's a very interesting combination is two string instruments. One in the western: violin, one is in the–in the–in the Asian, the Chinese

00:38:49.760 - 00:39:03.050

instrument: erhu. So, wow. And then it's—because he knows, because my music and my composition approach is more about have a strong influence in culture, not even the title and the background.

00:39:03.810 - 00:39:19.810

I compose quite a lot of authentic Chinese instruments as well. Yeah. So and then I've just put these two instruments together and then we are looking for the premiere in I think this coming March. Yeah. So, and then—yeah, looking forward to it.

00:39:20.280 - 00:39:35.950

So just—we need to do it—have a very strong impression to ourselves. Meanwhile, secondly, we still need to create a strong narrative Yeah, to meeting people. Be kind to performers.

00:39:36.310 - 00:39:51.280

So then we cannot be just, "I'm there," and I didn't think [unintelligible]. You have to be like a really—go to the ground level to really touch base with everyone and then be friendly to everyone in all levels–in all levels. We never know.

00:39:51.280 - 00:40:04.990

Yeah, because sometimes I teach students and then after years, he became a professor. So in maybe piano, whatever and then maybe they might perform my music as well. Yeah. So, since the now,

00:40:07.140 - 00:40:23.190

I think I've been teaching more than almost 20 or 30 something years. And then we'll see, I have already seen different younger people becomes good performers, even the professional level.

00:40:24.440 - 00:40:39.630

So just, it's very nice and then to see things. Maybe now I'm just getting older, then to really see different generations and different people, to see, how do they grow? And then just—I'm feeling very happy, yeah, to see this.

00:40:39.630 - 00:40:55.820

Yeah. So and then just looking forward to see another page. Or another–another, more and more pages, and then moving on, moving on, moving on. Yeah. So. And even, you know, the musical style is always been changing.

00:40:55.820 - 00:41:12.110

Yeah. So we just need to learn. Maybe it's not very about your question, but it's quite a lot of my philosophy. Now, I'm going to—in that age, I still need to

00:41:12.220 - 00:41:25.670

learn. Even though I don't learn from the older professors, or older people, I just have to learn from you guys. Yeah. younger generation. Yeah. Every time when I teach my students I learn from them.

00:41:25.670 - 00:41:38.960

Yeah, this is very interesting. Because—and now I think—of course, I will share my experience to them, I will share what the lot is (?) I–I know. But the lot of things I do not know.

00:41:39.320 - 00:41:55.900

And then they can tell me, they can really teach me. And then—and just is very interesting, yeah. And then every time—and then you guys think, you guys talk, it's really inspire me, really inspire me.

00:41:56.180 - 00:42:11.010

And then I just learned a lot from the things. So that's why when you look at me, I don't look like 51 years old, yeah, so—because of my heart is pretty young. Yeah. I always play with the younger people, younger generations, and then having

00:42:11.010 - 00:42:32.590

fun with them. And then pretty much with them to live. Yeah, it's very important, yeah, for me. Thanks so much for telling me about that. I'm gonna hand it off now to Jocelyn, who's going to ask some more questions about

00:42:32.680 - 00:42:46.430

your current musical career and onwards. Okay, sure. Thank you, Kevin. Yeah, so you mentioned that your pieces have a contemporary modernism. And I actually listened to a few of your pieces [SY: Thank you.] and they do have a

00:42:46.430 - 00:43:00.760

unique sound that differs from traditional classical music. So can you tell us more about your inspiration or your motivation for your unique style? Whether it comes from your upbringing, your education, your religion, or other sources?

00:43:01.100 - 00:43:13.640

Sure. Yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah. So, yeah, this is really the thing I can spend another hour to talk about. Yeah. So well, actually, it's a long story. But I tried to make it short.

00:43:13.640 - 00:43:28.680

I just try not saying too much. Yeah. Well, I'm so crazy to–I'm sorry, to making–to finding song to maybe, let's say two rows, the first row is the originality.

00:43:29.240 - 00:43:46.060

Originality is going to be whatever, when I hear some song or noise, I would like to collect it. So maybe it may be back to the very first part, when I was telling you about my, when I was a kid, I was so interested in listening to some

00:43:46.060 - 00:44:04.770

noise or some song, and then I found them very boring origin. And then a very interesting, so that's why even now when I compose whatever, any instruments, violin, or whatever strings or woodwind instruments,

00:44:06.040 - 00:44:23.660

I will not go through the traditional playing–traditional style, which means I'm looking for a very, very authentic way to play. For example, well, if you know, I

00:44:23.660 - 00:44:38.680

compose some music for shakuhachi, the Japanese bamboo flute. This is one of the kind I want to explore. And also the Chinese flute as well, the Chinese flute and then–it's also made by bamboo, and shakuhachi, too.

00:44:38.820 - 00:44:54.980

So all the wind sounds, the breathing, whatever the technique, how do they doing the vibrato and shaking their hand and womo momo momo, whatever, a lot of different technical playing. I would really appreciate that.

00:44:55.310 - 00:45:12.280

And then those are the things that I was saying. It's about the original, the very original authentic song–so those are very–draw me a strong interest and attendance to, yeah. So, which means when I'm looking for the Western way, because of my background is

00:45:12.330 - 00:45:28.570

very, very strong in the Western way. It's true. I didn't have a chance to study Chinese instrument until I came to the States, I learned from books, I ordered or something from Amazon, whatever, and then to attend the festival conference.

00:45:29.610 - 00:45:44.430

And then I just talked to the speaker, and then they will introduce and educate me to look for this article and then this and then different resources. Then I learned to–like a self taught–self taught–like Asian music.

00:45:44.430 - 00:46:03.910

Yeah, so but I'm just even I have a very strong Western background, but I still want to borrow these things. The thing about how to compose a music for flute, or clarinet, those type of Western instruments becoming sounding more like

00:46:05.600 - 00:46:21.800

Asian. But this is not the thing, the things that I want to say is that I want to find something for the originality. I want to find the-the origin-the origin, from the flute, because the flute–the Western flute–you might know it–and there's a lot of things is

00:46:22.350 - 00:46:38.920

we just develop, developed by the technology or the skill people how to make the flute and is a silver–whatever that is natural in it, and also the clarinet to and the other things. If I want to just try to skip those kinds of stage

00:46:39.870 - 00:46:51.720

or whatever–the developmental stage, go back to the very, very first step. How do we create a song? How do we create the noise? Back to the very, very first question.

00:46:52.480 - 00:47:03.530

Then, this is my starting point. That will be my starting point. So that's why if you listen to my music, when I compose a string instruments, I employ a lot of overtone series.

00:47:04.450 - 00:47:19.810

I know, back to the last century, maybe 80s, or 90s, Columbia University–and they do really introduced the spectrum. The spectral music. Yeah, but I know this is like, I'm trying to think about this the opposite way.

00:47:20.110 - 00:47:36.090

Because I'm already–I went back to the very first step. I had to think about this song, so that's why I starting to cache this idea, but not just like a thing about to the 80s–and into see how do we go back to that time?

00:47:36.090 - 00:47:47.820

Yeah. But anyway, for example, piano, also is the thing–is a percussive instrument for me-for me. Yeah. It's not like a keyboard. Yeah. So.

00:47:47.820 - 00:48:03.390

So that's why my music I use a lot of different–what we call the extended technique, but the extended technique is not–I want to write something sounds like new–sounds like avant garde. That's why I use contemporary techniques.

00:48:03.740 - 00:48:20.060

I know, yeah, because I–when every students, even for myself, too, when I was a college student, in Hong Kong, we learn a lot of different techniques. How I compose a music sounds like contemporary music, rather than tradition.

00:48:20.790 - 00:48:35.380

Like, not interesting, you know, to be which kind of thing about that, but yeah, so but now I'm thinking about because I need it–I need that sign because of my philosophy–I'm thinking about I need to start from zero. I want to see how do we create song.

00:48:35.840 - 00:48:54.820

So that's why the harmony of my music is always in the vertical approach. Vertical approach, which means is not really based on the–of course, not even based on the trials or-or the harmony, whatever is not by that. It's about the fundamental of the song becomes the first puzzle, second

00:48:54.850 - 00:49:13.380

puzzle and third puzzle above it, how it-how the sun becomes the–from the stability to the instability. When we have the instability, we will find out a lot of quarter tones which means the quarter tones will becomes like a very unclear and the

00:49:13.380 - 00:49:28.050

intonation–we will say the intonation problem. But why we say intonation problem if this is a natural sound? So, this is a very interesting thing. I have been thinking about it because I compose

00:49:28.750 - 00:49:44.030

Chinese orchestra. In Chinese orchestra, we always complain quite a lot of intonational issue. But what happened to those into-intonational-intonational issue? Yeah. Because the–it's not the way about the tuning.

00:49:45.030 - 00:50:01.760

It's about the originality of the song. So that's why, if you asking a shakuhachi to play with a Koto, and then with whatever and then they will not–they don't tune it together, because all this originality of the song, the noise, whatever is coming from the

00:50:01.880 - 00:50:14.190

very original spectrum, they do have different fundamentals. So, however, we just sounding together, it just sounds like our pitch whatever. Yeah. Even though the Chinese orchestra always–yeah.

00:50:15.560 - 00:50:34.640

So but of course back to the question, in the Asian musical style, we do not have that orchestra concept. No orchestral music yet actually. Going back to the Tang dynasty–in the Tang dynasty, the Emperor

00:50:34.860 - 00:50:48.890

court music actually is the original Dataiku- original Dataiku in the Japan, but you know the–in China the Cultural Revolution, everything's disappear. Yeah, they just destroy everything.

00:50:49.350 - 00:51:05.180

But I think based on a lot of score they have been mentioned, the Tang Dynasty is the original Dataiku when Japan is–when they have the court music. Actually sparring(?) is coming from the Tang Dynasty.

00:51:05.650 - 00:51:24.940

Yeah. So when they have the very kind of first music, Dataiku, there's not a–like a real orchestra. Yeah, but it's grand–is grand, but they will consider like an indoor or outdoor–indoor outdoor that might be the things–indoor is for the loud instrument.

00:51:25.490 - 00:51:38.720

Okay, more percussion things. Yeah, but for the outdoor-outdoor–indoor is more for the like a softer instrument to perform. But this is like a high similarity–has a lot–we will see quite a lot of similarity

00:51:39.090 - 00:51:51.910

to the Western, when we look at the back to the, like, medieval time. And then if you have a chance to study, you know, there for something like an indoor ensemble and the outdoor ensembles and things.

00:51:52.320 - 00:52:05.840

Yeah. So and then. Yeah, that's my first prose(?). And the second prose(?) is going to be the cultural background, of course, yeah. So because, as I mentioned, I have been so interested in the

00:52:06.950 - 00:52:21.050

Asian music, and the root of the Asian music. But I'm using a layer more like in a Western way since my background is always more about the Western. But myself, I was born in Hong Kong, grew up from Hong Kong.

00:52:21.050 - 00:52:30.060

So I would consider myself as a Chinese. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Even though I'm in the United States, yeah. But I will think about–I will not go strictly

00:52:31.870 - 00:52:47.680

as a Western way to-to become to using my music, but I might not be using the only the very original versus some of the both ideas. I do not completely agree.

00:52:48.550 - 00:53:04.620

So I disagree. Either way. So but so that's why as a composer, we have to challenge to the history. We have to challenge the history, we cannot omit to say, this is right,

00:53:04.850 - 00:53:19.330

then I follow this to compose whatever. Yeah, so we cannot just say, Mozart music is the great, then we cannot just move him forward. Yeah. So then after the 18th century, if all the music sounds like

00:53:19.330 - 00:53:38.680

Mozart. Yeah. So I will say a shop has(?) music is the best piano music, yeah. Then I will just compose in that way, whatever just following that way to do it. I have to find out something can be better–can be better. Yeah. So that's why I'm going back to here and then that

00:53:38.800 - 00:53:54.150

point is going to be for myself too. I will see. I'm thinking about–I'm as a Asian guy living in the Western world. But when I was in my Hong Kong–my birth place

00:53:56.040 - 00:54:13.760

is interesting because it was a British colony and then you have a lot of Western cultural things to learn and then just learning becomes really really Western. But inside, I'm pretty much as an Asian, yeah. So when you look at me and then I'm just looked like Asian.

00:54:13.760 - 00:54:29.110

Yeah. So-so that's why I think this is a good thing for me to explore, to my musical art, and also just become a very I would say quite unique. Because this is only my explanation.

00:54:29.370 - 00:54:47.070

If you turn to another Asian composer or Chinese composer, I'm pretty sure he or she will do very different. This only I thought in that way, maybe he or she may be doing another way, they may be expanding to another way, but we of course we have to appreciate each other.

00:54:47.160 - 00:55:03.750

I will not say what is right, what is wrong. And this could be another things about the musical art or the the real art I will say–we never have something right or wrong. It's not about the science or whoever if you will have the–something science and then is

00:55:04.440 - 00:55:20.260

this one and this one does not equal to that is a fact. But in the art, we don't have things and then I using this and using that the result is wrong. May not be wrong, but maybe not good.

00:55:20.390 - 00:55:34.040

If no good or you don't like it, you need to think about that. Yeah. So and then–so that's why the-the S phatic(?) level is quite different. Yeah. So.

00:55:36.330 - 00:55:52.370

Yeah. So I'm–-yeah. Yeah, I think that's a fascinating process. [SY: Yeah.] So since you mentioned that contemporary composition techniques don't focus as much on the traditional composition process, and

00:55:52.370 - 00:56:02.360

you mentioned instruments like the Japanese and Chinese woodwinds, are those instruments that you've all played before? Or do you just study how all of these different instruments sound to compose pieces that incorporate them?

00:56:02.660 - 00:56:15.270

Yeah. And it's important to well–we don't have to really know how to play the instruments. But two things. Number one, we have to–for me, I need to be very, very

00:56:15.510 - 00:56:31.700

flexible and should have a full imagination. But those imagination has to be very practical. Practical, okay. So which means the basic thing is, number one, you have to study. Yeah. And if you don't study, you don't do any research.

00:56:32.120 - 00:56:44.600

You cannot just dream what you like, and then–but it's not practical. And then nobody can perform your music, they cannot do it. And then it's just like too ideal, yeah. So has to be practical.

00:56:44.600 - 00:57:01.190

So that's why whatever–because I still consider myself as a very, like, academic composer, because I went to school, have a very traditional formal training. So that's why we will study the we call orchestration, instrumentation, and then

00:57:01.190 - 00:57:15.990

things, and then but besides this nowadays–and then, you know, it's very easy to learn. You just Google online to find the informations. Many people will just post something on the website, and then lots of different resources to find out.

00:57:16.260 - 00:57:31.190

So that's why composing a piece is a tremendous work. Yeah, a lot of preparation, a lot of studies. So not even the technical studies, and philosophy–everything you have to plan almost like a dissertation every time.

00:57:31.660 - 00:57:42.540

But of course, some people they will become easygoing easy come and then just try to enjoy, and then write a tune and then harmonize it. We're done this and so good. Yeah. Yeah.

00:57:42.540 - 00:57:58.640

But I know different people will do differently. Yes, but I will spend quite a lot of work to do this. And then and also, sometimes I just tried to go crazy. And then buying instruments and then whatever, or asking some friends to

00:57:58.640 - 00:58:13.240

borrow instruments, like I have some bamboo flute, and learned how to play. And then some cajon(?) and then to buy it from Chinatown–sometime I ordered from overseas. Yeah. And then I just–it's very different.

00:58:13.240 - 00:58:31.870

When you have something to touch, to really talk to, to communicate, you will know it very well. So just like people, yeah, you just don't treat as a-as a-as an instrument. It's your friend. You need to talk to him, to communicate to him, to asking

00:58:31.870 - 00:58:47.360

him what he can do, what I want you to do. He will answer you –just try to do it through it. And then I remember one time I pray I compose a ensemble for well, they

00:58:47.360 - 00:59:00.160

call lute, Chinese lute. And then there are different sides and different families from the higher pitch from the lower pitch called yuan(?) is a like a Chinese lute. And then I'm just have a chance.

00:59:00.160 - 00:59:16.090

And then I asked–I was in Hong Kong by that time–I was lucky–asking some of my friends to borrow it and then I will stay in the hotel. And I didn't go out to to play–I'm just staying in the hotel, but it was lucky and nobody complained me and then I was playing in my hotel and then to do it and then wow,

00:59:16.670 - 00:59:29.640

it just feels so different. When I'm touching this–when I was in the United States, I'm starting to think about that piece. I remember–it was 10 years ago and I play my guitar, but feels so different.

00:59:30.190 - 00:59:46.120

Guitar and the-and the Chinese lute player are different person, much much different person. And then you cannot just using a guitar to compose a piece for-for everyone. Then finally and then I adjust myself because I have a short trip in Hong Kong, and then I borrowed this wow.

00:59:47.120 - 01:00:01.910

It's just feel it. I really feel it. So that's why this is pretty important. I think it's very important and–but as I say, we don't have to really know how to play it. But as I say, you have to talk to the instrument.

01:00:02.530 - 01:00:13.950

It's very good. It's much, much different. And then if you don't have a chance to talk to him, just try to dream. He can do this for you. And then I asked him, I asked him to do it.

01:00:14.540 - 01:00:25.080

Maybe he doesn't talk to you. So that's why the communication is very important. I make communication through the instrument is very important. Yeah. So, yeah.

01:00:28.050 - 01:00:41.970

Yeah. So you mentioned how you're an academic composer because of your musical education. Moving on to kind of your current professional academic roles. You're currently on the faculty of the Houston Community College. Can you kind of talk about your experience teaching?

01:00:44.320 - 01:00:58.530

And how it relates to composing? Or what are some unique challenges that you have teaching music? And how do you incorporate your own approach when teaching? Yeah, yeah. So actually I don't know if the students

01:00:58.970 - 01:01:14.430

would like me or not, actually, I give a lot of freedoms to my students. Yeah. But maybe some of my colleagues, they might don't like it, because I'm just too easy. Yeah. So the challenge is, some students–it really–they are really into

01:01:14.430 - 01:01:32.120

the cast, they'd really like to do something, we work out pretty good, we work pretty good because I just really want to talk to them, and then to open up their mind to share what I want to share. Yeah. And some of them, they really enjoy it.

01:01:32.670 - 01:01:51.970

They think I'm pretty inspired them to really bring up to the musical art. Because I'm still have a strong influence, say, it's not just particularly(?)–I'm teaching you to write a melody, to harmonize it. This, we can go to the theory class, you can come to my theory class, I will teach you

01:01:52.010 - 01:02:08.140

this. If you're talking about a composition, and then just not just writing a song, and then arrange, put some drums, bass, whatever, and then put some chord. And then you know, if you learn–you know about some kind of a basic

01:02:09.010 - 01:02:26.390

song form, and then is pretty straightforward and almost many of the songs have a similar chord progressions, and arrangement is almost not the same, but it's quite similar. They will just kind of a building up how do they build up from the verse, chorus, verse,

01:02:26.390 - 01:02:43.640

chorus, and then build the climax and then–and then ended up like that way. You should see this-this curve, this shape, almost in most of the song, yeah. If talking about the hip hop or rap, and then you might be able to listen to many of them, you might catch the basic pose or the rhythms.

01:02:44.250 - 01:03:00.240

And then how do they do that? So, for my students, I know some of the Houston Community College is in level in freshman and sophomore, and then the students will get an associate degree, or they will transfer to a college to

01:03:00.240 - 01:03:13.560

complete the bachelor degree. So and yes, they are just kids. They just want to know something. They listened on the radio, on whatever, yeah, so and then–but

01:03:14.280 - 01:03:28.180

somehow, I'm not sure I'm-I'm doing a good job a bad job. I always kind of interrupt them or can be inspired. "Besides this, can you do this? Or that? How about this?" And then "if you want to do a drum, how about

01:03:28.970 - 01:03:48.160

doing something else?" Yeah, you know, just–I will say I will giving them more options and more varieties and then other options, and then just not always this, A or B, not C or D, E or F, even all the way go up to infinity.

01:03:48.930 - 01:04:00.610

Yeah. Anything is a possibility. Yeah. Anything's a chance. Yeah. So and then even though I know some of them may not be successful, maybe, maybe it's wrong. Wrong is wrong.

01:04:00.730 - 01:04:12.770

No problem. It's a procedure. Yeah. So and then I do not judge you fail. Yeah, if you just try it. So I think try is a very important

01:04:12.770 - 01:04:28.500

thing for education. Yeah. So, you know, for science, so as an scientist, yeah. So they will just try to experiment this, this, this, this and they will fail many many times. But as a young people if you're just not

01:04:28.850 - 01:04:48.700

trying but just doing a like the very stay in your comfort zone, and then doing this another song, you do the same thing, the first song, the same thing. And then I might want to see more, they can explore. Yeah, they can try to do this or that and that and that and then but just as I say,

01:04:48.720 - 01:05:03.600

I don't expect everything will be just be very great. Or like very successful. products. Yeah. But just I want you to see the procedure and really, the willing to do it.

01:05:04.050 - 01:05:17.380

They're willing to explore things to open up–like unfold everything. Yeah. Just looking at inside. Yeah. So actually me too, so because I have a strong curiosity, yeah.

01:05:17.950 - 01:05:30.800

To people, to ideas, to faults. And then everything, yeah. Curiosity is important I found for me just as an education. Yeah. So but just, you just don't have to just teach everything we

01:05:30.800 - 01:05:45.290

know. It's a fact. I'm gonna tell you the fact and then this theory, that theory. Then, yeah, we don't have people, and then we just tried to look at the website now. And everything's information are very good already.

01:05:45.360 - 01:06:02.550

When you don't have to go to school, you just check out on the internet, you'll find all the information. Yeah. So you know, just, I just do something. Whatever, when we want to fix something in at home, before we do not know

01:06:02.550 - 01:06:19.050

how to do it, whatever, if the AC something have problem, and then we don't know how to do this, the TV has some problem, we don't know, we have to call someone to come to fix it. But now we can just check on the YouTube and see how to fix it. Now, of course, some higher technology, we may not be able to do that.

01:06:19.080 - 01:06:33.840

But some basic skill at home. And then if you want to try many things, we can-we can fix. Yeah. So just different-different-different time and different generations and then another world now.

01:06:33.840 - 01:06:49.600

Yeah. So. Yeah, I think it's really admirable that you give your students so much freedom and teach them that it's okay to fail sometimes, because I definitely think they can apply those lessons to many other aspects of their lives beyond just music.

01:06:50.350 - 01:07:07.150

Would you say any of your students have ever inspired you or influenced your work? Well, actually not. How do I say? Not exactly the real fact to inspire me?

01:07:07.570 - 01:07:26.130

I'm learning things from students, from younger people, from case is the thinking and also the overall. Yeah. The overall and then the "how do they do this?" And then you know, just-just more–well, I would say, for example,

01:07:26.480 - 01:07:39.290

you learn something from the old people, they will just–it's kind of a limited. There's-there's an end. If you're learning something from the younger people, you don't see the ending, because they're still growing up.

01:07:40.150 - 01:07:54.130

Like this year, or next year, you see the same person. He may be able to tell you something different. So that's why–how do you approach or going through these things?

01:07:54.530 - 01:08:08.390

And then about the idea, what do you think? Yeah, so and then I would not just say–I'm learning something, this, I know it, I know how to do it, then that's it. Because the things is you know, to do how to do these things.

01:08:08.940 - 01:08:24.820

Besides that, it's not only how, and then it's another thing, you might not need it. But, on the other hand, you will just see 1000 of the possibilities, and then to make things happen, but just not knowing how to do this.

01:08:25.210 - 01:08:37.540

And that. And that's it. Yeah. So and then I just tried to bring through the–like a–look at obang(?). Yeah, not-not-not-not thinking about this way. Just like I'm probably thinking, yeah, just if you think about this way, you know how to

01:08:37.540 - 01:08:52.030

do it. That's it. But we can do this, that, or even this. Yeah, I'm thinking about always thinking about this. But yeah. So and then you're going to the outside, and then to see–well, I know it's a–maybe somehow it's not very practical.

01:08:52.720 - 01:09:07.200

Yeah. So, and I know, some younger people, and then they might be doing something wrong. Maybe, well, I was–maybe not even wrong, but just–but you will see, just let them go, and then I have my walk with them. And then just see what happened.

01:09:07.850 - 01:09:23.590

And then when you see something, unpredictable things, and then maybe just exploring the another routine, this-this way doesn't work? Maybe try another way. So that's why I'm willing to work with them, to work with them.

01:09:24.050 - 01:09:34.850

And then learn with them too. Yeah. Because whatever we make mistake, we do it together. We just make the same mistake, then don't do it again and try something else. Yeah. So that's why it's about the

01:09:37.300 - 01:09:56.190

approach, and how do we work together? That I learned from young people for all the things and then maybe I will say learn how to make it wrong, how to improve it, how to do it better. This is the more about the thinking that

01:09:58.830 - 01:10:08.950

way, yeah. So it's not the real thing and we're going to learn this. And then it's a-it's a pretty, like a-like a solid. And then this is-this is it. Yeah. And then, and then I'm going to learn another thing now.

01:10:09.010 - 01:10:25.630

Yeah. So this is a little bit more about a little bit different than that Yeah. I think your students are very fortunate to have a teacher like you who's willing to walk through the process with them. [SY: Yeah.] So moving on to your accolades, you

01:10:25.630 - 01:10:41.300

received a multitude of awards and scholarships for your compositions. Can you talk about which one was the most meaningful to you? The first award that you had listed on your CV was a piano solo. Was this award more special to you because it was your first one?

01:10:41.370 - 01:10:58.270

Or how was your overall experience with it? Let's see, ah. I even forgot which one was the first one. [laughs] Yeah, so well–I think, well many of them are very important, or just like,

01:11:00.010 - 01:11:11.240

it's very important to me. Yeah. But just going back, I think maybe I might not be able to answer directly to your question. Because, yes.

01:11:12.460 - 01:11:24.350

Back to as a younger composer, but I'm still young. Yeah. But, yeah, because now, you know, never know, people live up to 100 years. So I'm 52. I'm still young. So I'm expecting I may live up to 120.

01:11:24.350 - 01:11:39.760

Yeah. So just not even the midway, yeah. Okay. But anyway, when I was even younger, yes, I did, and then participate in a lot of competition and things. And it is quite important to establish yourself

01:11:43.260 - 01:11:58.530

as a composer because you need this qualification. And then to put it into your resume, whatever and things. And then people look at it. And then now, I remember when people google it, and then they will find you. Maybe you will have a chance to get like a

01:11:59.890 - 01:12:16.500

commission, or people even they might not commission, they will just contact you to find you to see, can you write me this piece, even though I don't have permission from you? And I will be still happy to do that. Yeah. So but the point is, yes,

01:12:16.880 - 01:12:31.190

it's kind of unrealistic, you know, just you want to build up your-your reputation, your name. And then yes, we need that. But actually, if you're asking me, is it necessary, or is

01:12:31.590 - 01:12:43.020

that important? I'm not sure. Yeah. Because we cannot just doing things because I need to build up this platform, whatever.

01:12:43.020 - 01:12:57.740

Yeah. But now I know, because I've been a while and then years. And then sometimes I google myself, I didn't–I find what I have done before, what–how many CDs or whatever, how many publication? I have it and I look at it.

01:12:58.240 - 01:13:14.900

It seems I–fulfilling, I'm pretty fulfilled. And I'm happy to see what I have done in this 20 years. 30 years. Yeah. And then but I'm still thinking about in the future. How do I go on my path?

01:13:15.570 - 01:13:29.500

And then what? How far I can go? And then that becomes my another question. I need to consider just–I'm not kidding, if I live until 120 years old.

01:13:30.480 - 01:13:46.220

Now, I'm only 52. I'm still have more than years to, many years to live. And then I might want to explore and to find out things. So that's maybe kind of a go back to the things I have to live and think young.

01:13:46.810 - 01:14:00.530

And then I cannot just say, ah, I'm 52–I'm traveling the middle age now. Maybe 15 more years, I retire. Well, I can retire, right? And then after 15 years, I will becomes like almost 70.

01:14:00.530 - 01:14:15.210

I can retire, right? But if I'm doing this way, what happens if I'm still very healthy in 70s or 80s? So what can I do? So this is the another thing I want to think about it.

01:14:15.570 - 01:14:34.180

So-so I know I'm not really answering your question, but this just kind of expanding to another question for me to-to say and then. But yes, when I'm kind of participating this or that or that or that and then yes, it's very important to

01:14:35.120 - 01:14:53.960

like establish myself becoming a, like a not a young composer or not a student composer and then is-is-is-it’s required and I think it's needed. Yeah, even though I mean I tell my students, I think, I will encourage them to really

01:14:53.960 - 01:15:06.360

try to participate or doing something more and then go to the festival. Attending more workshop and a master class and then it's good. It's good, yeah. So and then.

01:15:07.300 - 01:15:25.390

So–but I'm not sure which one is the–actually which one you mentioned about my piano piece talking about the first? Actually my first, I'm not sure which one is it, but I think was one of the one I ran to Israel.

01:15:26.000 - 01:15:48.790

It's a Haifa in the national composition space–2003 or something? Yeah, maybe not the very first one but kind of quite surprising me. Yeah, I wrote a piece for flute and a string orchestra. And then of course, they make me be there

01:15:49.780 - 01:16:03.810

in Israel. Yeah. And then there's a very well performance. And there was a, I think-I think, they perform in different cities too and Tel Aviv, Haifa, and

01:16:05.340 - 01:16:21.170

one more I forgot. Yeah. So and then, but it was a good trip and then seeing the very first class performers and great ensemblists and soloists to have ended up the concerto and then ran up pretty well.

01:16:21.170 - 01:16:31.340

Performance ran pretty well. And also, to know more about another culture. Yeah, in Israel is another-another things. Yeah. So, Yeah.

01:16:32.040 - 01:16:42.870

So, yeah. Yeah. That's great to hear. And that sounds like a really amazing experience. I think earlier, you mentioned that you were working on a premiere for March.

01:16:42.890 - 01:16:54.260

Can you tell us about that process? And in general, where do you see your musical journey taking you in the future? Like, do you think you're going to continue teaching and doing freelance commissions? Yeah. So in March, yeah.

01:16:54.260 - 01:17:07.020

So as I mentioned, I finished a piece–it's a duet piece for violin. So Western string instruments. And another one is a erhu is Chinese, two stringed

01:17:07.410 - 01:17:25.020

instruments. So I'm trying to–saying, well, maybe a little bit about my piece, talking about six strings. Yeah, so there's a four strings for violin two strings from erhu, yeah. So–but actually I didn't rewrite erhu, I write erhu and jiankou.

01:17:25.850 - 01:17:39.850

Because in the middle, the wishing(?) player, she needs to switch from the erhu to the jiankou. Jiankou is like a little bit bigger, like a viola, like a erhu is like a violin–is a higher, higher range, high pitch.

01:17:40.410 - 01:17:53.110

Jiankou is like–jian means a middle. It's like a viola in the-in the-in the middle range. So just a couple note down, and then it's going to be a little bit lower, and then we'll pick up more overtones.

01:17:55.520 - 01:18:09.160

So that's why the second part of my piece, I switched to the Jiankou. Yeah. So that piece I kind of trying to doing more the cultural exchange ideas?

01:18:11.070 - 01:18:29.070

Well, such as, I'm kind of bringing the fundamental of the eight string instruments because I know that tuning will not be putting together. It's hard to putting together so which means if I'm composing a melody, playing some

01:18:29.070 - 01:18:46.100

harmonies, like a-like a two notes and branding together, might not work. It's true, might not work. Or-or if you don't say right or wrong, or we can just say we'll sign a little bit weird because the intonation for the western way and

01:18:46.400 - 01:19:06.150

the-and the-and the eastern way, the East doesn't tuning together. So which means if you write a real melody, and then one note to melody, even harmony signing together, it was ugh, a little bit weird. So that's why I give up that idea and kind of bringing up if the

01:19:06.150 - 01:19:25.280

musical instruments playing their own original thing as a fundamental on the note. And then because this about-about the natural, the signs, when you just like–for example, if I'm playing a string, and then whatever, any materials, and then you just pray on it, and then

01:19:25.280 - 01:19:43.860

touching a certain way, it comes out that for some of these strings, right, that is a string. So I touched this, and then I just kind of lightly touch it. Automatic will build the overtones, naturally, because the materials of this violin and the erhu are different.

01:19:44.920 - 01:20:01.050

And then also the soundboard are different too. So which means finally comes out, they will have a different chemistry to mixing together. Because we're–I'm not talking about–I don't want to distinguish western intonation

01:20:01.150 - 01:20:19.400

and east and west intonation. I gave up that idea already, and picking up the very original or primitive-primitive sign resources. So that's why I bring that and then to creating another things, and plus

01:20:19.620 - 01:20:40.440

some kind of non pitch materials, such as a lot of different percussive things, or some kind of other non, like, pitch materials, bring it together. So, I would say it's kind of mixing

01:20:41.970 - 01:20:56.070

western and oriental sounds together, and then moving past some type of primitive ideas. So I don't know. So we'll see. But, you know, I have been composing in this idea of philosophy since

01:20:57.340 - 01:21:05.900

I think last more than 10 years. Yeah. So. So we'll be interested to see the premiere. Yeah, in March. Yeah.

01:21:08.740 - 01:21:22.320

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. [SY: Yeah.] So moving on to some questions about how you would self identify, you became a US citizen in 2015. And I think previously, you mentioned that you would identify yourself as Chinese.

01:21:22.370 - 01:21:39.230

But would you say–how would you compare your Chinese identity to your US identity now that you live here in America? Yeah. So, well, it's a very good question. I have been thinking about it.

01:21:40.120 - 01:21:58.820

But somehow, I'm trying to think about as a person, you know, as a people, we have a choice, or we can just live in, especially the United States. United States. Yeah. Because in here, it's very diversity.

01:21:59.350 - 01:22:10.570

And then even Texas too. And then when you go out to–not even Chinatown. Chinatown, you will see a lot of American. And if you go to Korea, you will see a lot of Asian or some Hispanic

01:22:10.710 - 01:22:26.300

[unintelligible] is interesting. Yeah. So, but the thing is, I may want to see if we are not talking about the cultural art, it's not quite important to say who I am.

01:22:27.270 - 01:22:40.780

I know, this is a very sensitive question. If I'm saying this, I know a lot of people will argue with me. But-but-but I'm not that political way. Because I know if I want to raise this, it will be a big fighting, big argument.

01:22:40.780 - 01:22:59.250

Yeah. So I don't want to go too deep about that. Debating, yeah. So but I know some of the people, they really care, so just to give you an example. And then I have a friend, not-not– you might hear this story many, many

01:22:59.250 - 01:23:20.050

times. She was almost a second or even the third generation Asian in the United States. Even their parents, their grandparents was born in the United States. But they were asked about, are you Korean or Chinese or Japanese? And then he or she feel really not too good?

01:23:20.100 - 01:23:31.620

Yeah. You know, because she just feel she's already a American. She's a third generation already. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. But I'm thinking about, is that important?

01:23:32.330 - 01:23:47.380

Yeah. So of course, the person who asked is going to be–I don't know why-why-why people need to ask. And then, but just thinking about that, I need to be careful because I don't want to, yeah, go too much about this.

01:23:48.510 - 01:24:04.760

Let's go back to the cultural art, because come to our art as well. I also can give an example. One of my colleagues, he composed–actually two of them are kind of a famous, famous composers already.

01:24:04.760 - 01:24:20.780

Yeah, but I don't mention names. One, he just say he has both are Asian and then one he have to really say to really show his cultural background or whatever he has to be see

01:24:21.290 - 01:24:34.800

the identity, to see the identity in his music, in his musical art or whatever. And then whatever when you people listen to this piece, they can recognize who is he, where is he from.

01:24:34.800 - 01:24:54.120

Yeah, but another composer can argue they were talking about this-this topic and then just talking about–and this is his thing about whatever he compose a piece, he is already in the Western world and then we should be able to have more opportunities

01:24:55.180 - 01:25:11.780

or the chance to expanding the musical art in all levels-in all levels, which means, on the other hand, we don't have to really compose something really, really sounds like Asian. That's the–another idea.

01:25:11.890 - 01:25:29.780

And also I met another like, my teacher level's composer too. And then one time I talked to him. And then he also questions why you mentioned about this is the Asian music it's not existed. Whatever you are composer, you can compose anything, you can

01:25:29.780 - 01:25:47.050

compose anything. So musical art is already a, like an abstract form. Here's a song, okay. So and then it doesn't have to be related to too much or has to be attaching a level with the culture

01:25:48.310 - 01:26:01.840

or whatever, the country, whatever, yeah. So, but you know, just this is like a very two extreme examples we-we are seeing or we are looking at it. Yeah. But-but

01:26:04.830 - 01:26:21.300

actually this is very sensitive question. We have been discussing this over the years. I remember almost, maybe 15 or 20 years ago, yeah, I was in, like a major international festival called

01:26:21.360 - 01:26:41.620

ISCM. It's a big one, big one 20 years ago, and it was in Croatia, in Zagreb. Of course, there are all the composers all around the world was there, and I was lucky, I had a piece was in select in the program. Then, and of course, we meet each other and then we

01:26:41.620 - 01:26:56.480

touch base about these kind of questions. And, of course, the society over there, they really strongly recommend. If you are Asian, you should be compose something to be the descent

01:26:56.970 - 01:27:13.250

yourself. Yeah. So–but by that time, my piece have a very strong influence of the Chinese root. Talking more about oriental form, oriental ideas. Yeah. So but I also hear some another-another

01:27:15.210 - 01:27:38.750

talking about that. So but anyway, up to this point, I might not really saying which-which part is right or wrong, but because I'm still thinking about as a person, I think I would just have a choice or freedom to

01:27:38.750 - 01:27:55.920

live in anywhere. Yeah. So I don't really have to say to standing at one point, but not talking about to another thing. Yeah. But if you're talking about the cultural art, and then I will be still pretty

01:27:56.000 - 01:28:08.170

open, but I will be still thinking. Because I really know what I'm doing. Yeah. So and as an Asian composer, even Chinese composer, so I will be able to say, I'm doing this way.

01:28:08.170 - 01:28:18.460

Yeah. But I know. Yeah, if I'm doing saying too strong. Yeah. So and that he might be quiet. For, to getting some feedback.

01:28:18.500 - 01:28:32.480

Yeah. So all right. So speaking not necessarily in a musical setting, but do you continue to celebrate your Hong Kong heritage? And how important do you think it is that you continue celebrating your ethnic culture?

01:28:33.410 - 01:28:48.330

Yeah, of course. Yeah. You know, just as a tradition, you know, it's a–we should respect it, we should respect all of this, like, any heritage, and then you are not putting this in a very big deal.

01:28:48.930 - 01:29:05.180

Well, I'm not a big, very big deal, which means you don't have to really challenging to someone to say agree or disagree. But it's your own respect Asian, you know, I respect this. And then because I was born there, and then I grew from there.

01:29:05.700 - 01:29:20.990

And then I'm Asian, I'm Chinese, and then I'm, yeah, this is a tradition. But on, you know, on the other hand, you know, I'm just like a particular religion, or some kind of a very primitive heritage.

01:29:20.990 - 01:29:34.110

And I might not really agree. Yeah, I don't have to agree. You know, but, you know, just something happened. It's there, yeah.

01:29:34.570 - 01:29:48.240

And if you disagree, you just, you don't have to state it too much. But I will say just, everything is there. So like, this is the everything is in a row. You-you like it, you touch it.

01:29:49.130 - 01:30:03.810

You love it. You just have it. You don't like it? Just don't look at it. Yeah. So but if you have a lack of relationship with it, we can talk about it. If you don't love your talk, and-and I just don't talk.

01:30:04.430 - 01:30:20.050

So I will just say really open to whatever your idea your thought, you know–just it's-it's very free. It just, we don't have just like a definitely right or wrong answer. You have to do this or you don't have to do this.

01:30:20.310 - 01:30:33.160

Yeah. So this is a very interesting. Very good topics we can discuss, yeah. So thank you for asking this.

01:30:33.160 - 01:30:47.950

Yeah. Thanks so much. That was our last question. [SY: Sure.] So, before we close off and end the interview, we just like to ask, is there anything else you'd like to share?

01:30:48.970 - 01:30:59.890

You know, it could be anything. If not, no worries. I think yeah, I think it's–thank you so much. Yeah. So we have been touching base on many different topics and

01:31:01.170 - 01:31:11.960

about myself. And yeah, so thank you so much again. Yeah, for having me here in this project. Yeah.