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today is february 8th 2021. My name is Joshua furman. I am the curator of the Houston jewish history archive at Rice University and I'm here today with Stephen Coffman steven. How are you? Well thank you, judge. Great thanks so much for taking the time to chat

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with us today about um your family history, um your deep roots in in texas and um your um career of community involvement here in Houston. Why don't we start by talking about your mother, jean freed Kaufman and her family's history. When when did they first come

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to texas? And where did they settle? My mother's father, the freed side had deep roots in the old south. They were from the Tennessee and Mississippi area and In around the 1870s following the civil war they left Vicksburg Mississippi and the legend or story is that

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they crossed headed to California and the horse died when they got to hempstead texas, which is now a suburb of Houston and they settled there. Um I uh I have a son who bought a second home up in Hampstead and we visited there a few years

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ago and I went to the jewish cemetery and found the grave site of my great grandfather Abraham freed my grandfather's father. So I l freed my grandfather, grew up in Hampstead, moved to Houston to seek his fortune and settled here on my mother's mother's side, the

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Dell hymes side. Uh my grandmother Sybil, Dell, Heim freed was born in Birmingham Alabama. Her parents were born in Mannheim Germany and they had deep roots in Germany and visited there frequently. So when my mother said, I'm not sure how Sibyl freed, moved to Houston and

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when she met Ike, but uh they were southern. She was born in America and my grandfather was born in America and his parents were born in America. So on the freed del Heim side, on my mother's side, they were german jewish stock with deep roots in

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the south and uh and in the United States. Um Do you want to know about my father's side? Um I will, but we'll get there in a minute. Tell tell us more about about Ike freed and the freed family. What did, what did I do for

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a living? He was, he was like Willy Loman in the Arthur miller play. He was a traveling salesman. He was a manufacturer's representative for men's furnishings and apparently a very good saleswoman. He had his sample case and he traveled to Southern United States where there were

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a lot of jewish merchants. Uh One of his most important customers were the sockets brothers who lived in Galveston's and I'm told that Ike freed, loaned the two sockets brothers the money to move from Galveston to Houston and open their department store in Houston Sakowicz Brothers.

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And uh he built apparently a very successful business as a salesman selling uh men's furnishings too department to department stores and men's stores throughout the south. Mhm He um became active in Beth Israel politics and became a president of Beth Israel Uh presumably in the 1930s,

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Because he was uh a past president about Israel when the famous uh split occurred uh in the early 1940s, in fact, um robert icon who was the rabbi to be under rabbi Barnes stone in Beth Israel uh live a state in my grandparents home when he

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came to interview for the job at Beth Israel and then he went into the war, was in the pacific as a chaplain uh in the army, when the split occurred when uh Beth Israel split and decided to divide into uh sort of a non Zionist. They

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didn't. My family was very active in the movement that was opposed to zionism in in Houston and in the country called the American council for Judaism, the freed family was, and there was a as as you're very aware of josh, a big uh split when the

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majority group, the german assimilationist jews who didn't want anything that tainted of anti Americanism uh to take place, they put into place something called the basic principles that required members in order to vote at Beth Israel to sign a pledge that they uh agreed to, which

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had statements in it, such as my country is the United States, I have no other country but the United States etcetera and minority, there was a big, there was a big fight at the annual meeting in 1943. My father, my grandfather ike freed and his brother

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louis freed, argued so vehemently louis freed apparently was Zionist sympathizer and uh he and his family left and were part of the group that formed Temple Emanuel and louis freed and Iraq freed, never spoke again for the rest of their lives, their widows fanny freed and

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my grandmother um adhere to their to their split while the two men were alive, but once they passed away, they reconciled and my mother and her cousin frank freed. Um and his family, we reunited and we're friendly, as did most of the Beth Israel and Emanuel

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families. Once the state of Israel was established, right, but that's a that's a really incredible story Stephen about how that ideological divide within the Beth Israel community literally tore some families apart. Um that is an incredible story, tell us a little more about, about Sybil and

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I do you have memories of them where where, where in town did they live? They had a large home on Montrose Boulevard 4002. Montrose uh during World War Two, when my father went into the army and left my mother and my sister Susan and I moved

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into my grandparents home on Montrose. My father was called up for active duty when I was a year old in, in june of 1941 and we all know what happened in december 1941 with Pearl Harbor, he was, he had been in ROTC and he was called

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up for active duty as a first lieutenant And was caught up for a year and he stayed in until August of 1945. But during World War two, mother and Susan and I lived in the Montrose home. And I was reared very much by my grandmother Sybil,

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I was very close to her. I called her mama uh my great grandmother, Fannie Delhomme lived in the home also. She was a widow then still had a german accent. I remember her very well. She was small um and lived there until several years after the

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war ended and I moved back to braise would um but I don't, I just have memories of spending a lot of time with my grandmother, great grandmother mother and Susan. Um and uh I remember my sister showing me pictures of my father who I didn't remember

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at all as I grew older because I was five years old when he returned from World War Two, he had been a full colonel in the army, served in various places in the United States. Then when when overseas for the invasion of North Africa was an

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Eisenhower staff and then later was transferred to the china burma India theater uh as a an ordinance officer and helped build the Ledo road in the uh in the in the burma china area and came out of World War Two as a full colonel. Wow, that's

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remarkable. And I know that in your your family history collection here at the archive at Rice University. We have, we have a number of materials about that. Why don't we back up a step? Tell me a little bit about your father's family and how it was

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that your parents met. My father was from a very modest or poor, I guess is a better term uh, eastern european jewish family. Uh, They came from the area that was blurred between Poland and Russia. Um, Something happened to my grandfather, Benjamin, who I never knew

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he was injured and uh, couldn't work. My mother, my grandmother mary, whom I never knew. Uh, and I have some material from archives that suggests that she was not able to read and write, I'm told that she took in laundry to keep the family together. I

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have no idea how she did it because my father was one of eight and uh, all of him, all of his siblings graduated from college. Uh, He was born in London, which was one of the, it was the last european stop when we visited London when

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I was uh, a teenager. Um, he, we went to an old area. He remembered going to the free jewish school, he said and showed us the poor neighborhood in which he lived. But my father was six years old when he left London And I've given you

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the manifest of the ship on which he sailed from Europe to come to the United States in 1912. Somehow his family found their way to California and settled there. He grew up that they were traditional uh, family. He was himself a Zionist. Uh, he, he grew

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up on the west coast, went to uh, cal Berkeley graduated with high honors and was going to the University of san Francisco night law school, working his way through the university to get a law degree and he had an engineering degree from cal and a law

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degree from the University of san Francisco. My mother, who was not a particularly good student, um, had to go to finishing school on the east coast just to get into college. She, she couldn't get into any college when she graduated from Sanchez and high here in

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Houston. She was a fun loving hell raiser but she settled down and made good grades at this finishing school and was admitted to Mills College on probation and eventually graduated with honors from Mills. So she settled down and had had good intelligence and and became serious

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and somehow she met my father, I think her senior year at Mills supposedly they played bridge and argued with each other, but later dated and uh, married and started living in the west coast and about the time they thought of having Children. My grandfather, ike freed,

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suggested to my father that he could sell insurance to my mother's well to do or upper middle class friends in Houston and do well here. So he moved with my mother to Houston around 1936. My sister was born here In 1937. I was born in 1940.

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We had a home in Braves Wood, uh, which we bought not long before my dad was called up to the army. So we rented it out during World War Two and moved to the Montrose home to live with my grandparents. Right, steven. There's something about uh,

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there's a detail about your father, which I think is very interesting that we haven't mentioned yet. His birth name, if I remember correctly was Abraham. Albert Kaufman. But he later went by, I went by Albert. Can you talk about that a little bit candidly. I can't

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tell you much except that he used the initials A a he was known as a a kaufman and he took the first name Albert. But apparently his legal name was Abraham because the army records I've shared with you show him as Colonel Abraham. Albert Kaufman. I

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don't know if he hid the name Al Abraham or if he was, but he, I met his old California friends. Some of them came to Houston for his 70th birthday party. And in fact, when I was 16 I drove to California and met a lot of

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his family and they all called him either a or Al. So he must have taken the name Albert uh, in college or high school. Uh, I can't tell you. I never asked him why he, he took that name. Right. But he was, it was kind of

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interesting when, uh, uh, when I became president of the Federation, it was then called the jewish Community council. I noticed that he was a past president in 1947, which would have been right in the middle of the uh, Zionist movement before Israel became a state. And

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I asked him, how could you ike fried's son in law and a member of the freed family become the president of the Federation. And he said, because he was acceptable to both sides. So, apparently his views of pro zionism. Oh, that's right. He did tell me

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that when he came back from the war, he told my mother that he would prefer it if she would resign from the american council. From Judaism for Judaism, which was the non Zionist or anti Zionist national movement to which she had belonged in, in in consonance

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with her. Uh, Beth Israel family and he asked her to resign. So he was, he was a scientist and always very sympathetic with Israel. He spoke Yiddish when we went to europe. Uh, he could always find his way. We would visit synagogues when we traveled and

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he could always speak Yiddish with the people there. So he grew up with a very traditional background. Yeah, well, we'll talk more about how that how that played out in your, in your family as you grew up a little bit let's, let's talk now about growing

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up in that old braise would neighborhood after you know, your father came back from the war. Um There was a little jewish niche in in old braise. Would that many people I think today may not be aware of, talk about the the other jewish families that

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lived in uh in and around braise would with you and what youth activities you were involved in together. I wouldn't call it little. I would say there was a substantial representation of my mother's Beth Israel friends. All of them seem to have had Children about the

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same age as my sister and I, because many of her best friends lived in Breezewood, as did mine. If we just go down Underwood boulevard, the beth the mixture of Beth Israel and Beth you sure? And families that lived just on, just on Underwood boulevard included

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the harry Gordon's the arian Gordon's the Reuben ask unease is um The bend Battle steins and the hairy battle steins. Among the reform. Across the street was the Morris ratchet where where uh Gerald Ratched grew up. Um Down the street was louis louis Caplan in his

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home. Um And there were many more within a few blocks, I can rattle off the names of parents of my good friends and Susan's good friends. The Lew Lewis is the urban flankers that the dye tsars. The Herzog, the Millers, the animals, The decent berg's, the

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Grossman's, the axelrod's the Ibrox teens and the Raymond brock steins and I could go on and on. There were There were lots of Jewish families, some of whom moved in after we did. We were one of the first Jewish families to buy home in brays would

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uh in the in the late 1930s before I was born. But by the early 1940s when I was starting to play on my street, No excuse me, mid 1940s when I moved back after World War II, the street was heavily populated with my good friends. Yeah,

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I think this is an important story because often when we summarize or repeat the narrative of Houston, jewish history, there's this narrative of progression. Like out of third ward, in the riverside area into Meyer land. That kind of skips over braise would doesn't it brace would

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was heavily populated with a mixture of of let's say better off Becky. Suren and Emanuel families and heavy representation of Beth Israel families. And it wasn't until the 1960s or the late 19 fifties, I guess that the big migration from riverside took place when I, when

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I first started when Bellaire high School opened and I went to Bellaire high School, I was among the very, very few jewish students there. But as as time progressed, there was a heavy migration of jewish students over to bel air while I was going there, I

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went to roberts elementary Persian Junior high school. And then uh Bellaire opened in 1955 when I entered the 10th grade. Um And I was the first class to graduate fully from Bel Air, but by then there were quite a few jewish students there. Yeah you anticipated

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my question perfectly well well done. Um Talk a little bit about what youth activities you were involved and I know that um S. A. R. Was a big part of your childhood. Can you talk about sigma alpha rho? And what it was S. R. Was mostly

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reformed, jewish kids from heavily from braise would but with friends from the riverside area uh S. T. P. Was the uh female equivalent of it my older seasons 3.5 years older than I. And she and her friends were active in STP and she was the president

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of SDP and we had STP meetings in our neighborhood. And in fact I remember there was a national meeting of STP that took place while my sister was president and my mother helped her organize that. Um S. A. R. Had a lot of very good friends

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in it, interestingly steven sussman and I were good friends and he he lived he still lived over in the riverside area when he was a member of S. A. R. So did morty con. So there was a mixture of riverside and but they were beth Israel

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members mostly in S. A. R. And what kinds of activities did you do did you Their sports social activities, what it was a social group. We had a sweetheart dance. Uh I remember I was treasurer of of S. A. R. Jr by the way the the

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older brothers and my sisters older group that we're in S. A. R. Formed an S. A. R. Junior group of their younger brothers and I was the treasurer of S. A. R. Jr. When we had a senior when we had a sweetheart dance and my girlfriend

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Margie Greene was elected sweetheart of S. A. R. Jr. And the dance was held at Beth Beth Jacob synagogue right on Alameda across from uh johnson Junior high and I remember organizing that that party at the at the synagogue but I can't. And we and we

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played in the uh JCC athletic league and competed with the A. C. A. Guys. And uh I've given you a photograph of uh my senior year in S. A. R. When we won the football tournament which was we played football on the on the football field

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at johnson Junior high and it was refereed by people from the athletic group of of the J. C. C. On Herman Drive. Right great. Um tell me tell me more about antisemitism that you experienced growing up, was that was that ever an issue for you in

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your childhood. I I know maybe while you were a student at at roberts or or later in um later on at at Bellaire high school. I don't remember any personal incidences of antisemitism. Um most of my friends that Israel friends were very assimilationist jews, we celebrated

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christmas, we had christmas trees, we had easter egg hunts in our back yard, um I remember that we had two christmas trees, one we a big green tree with lots of lights on it with in the playroom with the window, the drapes open so it could

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be seen from the street, so we weren't the least bit shy about that and another tree on our bar and I remember rabbi shock tail coming over during the holidays for cocktails and sitting in our playroom where our christmas tree was but up and down Underwood,

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our jewish friends had trees just like the rest of the neighborhood and I'm certain that the ranches across the street did not have a tree, but the battle stein's did the gordons, did the ask, Canadians did every one of my friends did. So I had zero

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incidences of uh of a feeling different from most of my friends, I did, I did have a feeling of difference politically. I remember in 1948 when the Truman uh dewey election took place and everyone was so surprised that Truman won uh the day of the election

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for some reason the teacher asked how many of your family voted for Truman and I raised my hand and I was the only one, so apparently uh I didn't know it was because I was jewish that we were liberal, but we were the only ones who

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voted democratic. Um at Bellaire high school, I mean I played football at Persian, I was in the debate group in Bel Air, I became the president of the debate club, There was a non jewish friend of mine um Stephen jones who used to call me Abe

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which I assumed was an affectionate reference to my being jewish, that was his nickname for me, but I considered it warm and friendly and personally had no experiences of antisemitism. I did think it was odd that when I ran for class president, the election senior year

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was held on Yom Kipper when even though I didn't have that many jewish friends that might have voted for me, uh none of us went to school that day. I did, my dad was was president of Beth Israel and we were active in the synagogue but

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we didn't observe jewish holidays very much. We didn't light the candles for Shabbat. We went to the uh we went to the Temple Seder however, because he was active in it. My mother was active in the temple and in fact she was very sad that I

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didn't become active because her father had been president and her husband was president and later Susan's husband, Jack was President Beth Israel but I wasn't, I wasn't active at the temple, but uh in in 1948 we have expanded our home and built a large dining room.

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And uh, I think my mother insisted, my father insisted that if we were going to build a large dining room in which mother could entertain with parties, he wanted to have a family Seder Out of his old tradition. And so in 1948 we had the first

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freed family Seder in my recollection and all the cousins came and my grandmother came and everyone loved it. And continuously since then our family hosted over 20 people for Seder until they've got so large that we had to split it. We now have 50 or 60

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people that gather for occasions. So we had to split it and Maxine and Herman lap and hold the lapin family Seder. And my daughter has the Kaufman lapin family Seder for our 25 or 30 half of the free descendant kaufman life and relatives right, very good.

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Um talk a little bit about being on the debate team at Bel Air and what that meant to you. It was, it was very significant to me interestingly, I got interested in debate when at one of our family Seders, my cousin Ronnie cats, who had debated

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at Sanderson High School gave one of his speeches after dinner and I was impressed with how well he spoke and when I got injured playing football at uh at Bel Air and couldn't play football anymore. I went out for the debate team and did quite well

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and got into the leadership and as I said became president of the debate club which was both debate and uh debate and uh and drama and uh I I used to enter both debate and declamation and uh original oratory but also read a poem uh which

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the debate coach coached me and I won a number of tournaments as a as a reader of poetry as well. Uh I actually uh started dating a non jewish junior Kathy Baxter uh my senior year when I was debate club president and was quite serious about

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her and even though I continued to be active in S. A. R. And ran around with my jewish friends, I must have spent less time at some of the parties because I became quite serious about Kathy and dated her in my senior year. I'm not sure

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if if that's why I lost by one vote to steven Sussman as president of S. A. R. Or not because I had a non jewish girl friend, Stephen is an was an outstanding human being and he could easily have uh he could easily have out voted

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me uh on his own without that being a reason. Sure, sure. Um So from from Bel Air High school you went on to Harvard, do you wanna do you wanna talk a little bit about your time at Harvard? The uh Harvard had never admitted anyone from

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Bel Air. And the Dean of admissions came to Bel Air to visit my senior year and I was uh jean Wouters who was one of the uh one of my girlfriends, she was not a girlfriend, I just liked her a lot, she was the counselor, the

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senior counselor and I thought she was just terrific, pulled me out of class and had me give this uh admissions Dean a tour of Bel Air which must have helped me get admitted um with my parents encouragement, I am um applied to a number of good

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schools, I made very good grades at Bel Air and was was admitted to Harvard and others and eventually decided to go to Harvard. Um I drove up to school with Larry Wolfe who was another braves, would jewish family Bettez remember uh e joseph Wolf and uh

00:32:14.110 - 00:32:36.910

his wife who were who ran the one of the departments at Battle stein's department store. And uh he told me all about things at Harvard and I um I went to, I went there, I went to the um Hillel once and it was so orthodox that

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I didn't feel at home there. So I never went back to Hillel but I gravitated toward friends who were jewish um toward the spring of my freshman year. I met uh three fellows from similar backgrounds to mine and we all decided to room together which we

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did from sophomore year on uh they were all from reformed jewish families in Miami ST louis and Denver and we roomed together for three years. And uh had a grand time together. We had a great social life at Harvard. Uh Harvard had a fairly high jewish

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component, perhaps as much as 30 to 35% which was quite different from five or 10 years earlier when there were supposedly restrictions on jews getting in. But by the time I went uh there was a heavy jewish component. Um I always went to high holiday services

00:33:45.320 - 00:34:06.050

during my time at Harvard. I would go to Temple Israel on Commonwealth Avenue. They wouldn't allow us to enter because we didn't have tickets, only members could be admitted. So we would stand outside in the cold, cold weather in the fall of the year in boston

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massachusetts waiting for all those with tickets to be admitted. And then they would allow us to go and climb the stairs and stay up in the choir loft with those who didn't have tickets. And uh I went to services. I'm quite certain all four years of

00:34:24.830 - 00:34:44.610

my uh, of my time at Harvard. But that's that's the truthfully the only thing jewish that I can remember about Harvard other than that most of our good friends were jewish and the women, I dated at the different colleges in the Greater boston area, which by

00:34:44.610 - 00:35:06.310

the way was a grand place to go to school. There were 28 different colleges, junior colleges and universities in the, in the greater boston Wellesley Newton Brooklyn area of of Cambridge and the rest of that. It was a great place to go to school. Oh yeah,

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I spent I spent three years in Boston after college and it's there's nothing like it, it's really wonderful. Um and while while you were in college, you had a really remarkable um political experience. Um I know that you were able to attend the 1960 Democratic Convention

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with your uncle. Can you tell us about that? Well, even before that, I've always been interested in politics. My parents were very interested, as I recounted a little while ago, I was aware of the 1948 election of Dewey and Truman. My mother's brother in law. My

00:35:46.360 - 00:36:08.210

lois laden's husband, Bill Layton was an active Republican and supported Dewey, but we supported Truman. I remember when I was at camp in Maine at Camp Kennebec. Um I had a portable radio and in 1952, uh, after everyone was asleep, I had my radio under the

00:36:08.210 - 00:36:32.340

covers listening to the democratic to the Republican National Convention when Eisenhower was nominated. So I was obviously very interested in politics. And uh when I was 14, my uncle Bill Salman, also a colonel in World War II had uh moved his family to New Mexico and

00:36:32.340 - 00:36:51.530

built a home and uh purchased a giant ranch. And I when I was 14 I went to work there and I lived there for six weeks in his home and got to know him well. Um and his and his sons, David and Billy David was sort

00:36:51.530 - 00:37:09.540

of my supervisor. I was training to get in condition to go back and play football at Pershing, which was the reason that I went out there to work. My older cousin David, had made all state in his high school in New Mexico Las Vegas high school

00:37:09.550 - 00:37:32.650

and I wanted to work out with him and train. But we talked politics a lot and my uncle knew that I was interested and somehow or another. He was a delegate in the 1960 uh, convention uh in in Los Angeles. And uh I'll spend just a

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minute and say I Harvard had held a mock convention in 1960. The period of republicans being in office all through the Eisenhower years looked like they might end in 1960 there was active competition for the nomination for the Democratic presidential nomination. And Harvard held a mock

00:37:55.790 - 00:38:16.030

convention and I got involved in it and went and recruited students from uh the Wellesley and Pine Manor area and brought them in who were Southern. I was active in the Lyndon johnson delegation and we, we had a strong delegation, but Stevenson and Kennedy were nominated

00:38:16.040 - 00:38:36.210

in the Harvard uh mock convention. And then in the summer of 1960 I traveled to Los Angeles and was a runner on the new Mexico delegation where my, where my uncle Bill Salman invited me to come and I stayed in the hotel with him. And I

00:38:36.210 - 00:38:58.870

was involved heavily in that delegation as a runner. Uh and I uh sat in all the sessions. And remember when Eleanor Roosevelt nominated Stevenson for another term and there was a thunderous welcoming for Stevenson. But he he didn't have a chance. The Kennedy and johnson forces

00:38:58.870 - 00:39:19.880

were very strong, but Kennedy had a much better organization and was eventually nominated. Uh remember when Kennedy very shrewdly came to speak to the texas delegation and I went to that meeting and sat on the floor about four or five ft away from Kennedy and johnson

00:39:19.890 - 00:39:40.070

when the two of them spoke to the delegation, I had a fabulous time being part of that. Watching the tide turn as bobby Kennedy who ran the four delegates for his brother Jack won over all. In fact, even though johnson was strong in the new Mexico

00:39:40.070 - 00:39:58.300

delegation, the majority of the new Mexico delegates voted for Kennedy uh and he swept it and was nominated on the first ballot. But it was a fabulous experience for me to be out there during that time, wow! Absolutely remarkable. And to be, to be a college

00:39:58.300 - 00:40:19.200

student and to have the opportunity to to do that as something else. And I've given you letters, I wrote to my parents recounting my experiences during that convention. Yeah, you were a pretty good reporter reporter on the scene. Let's let's talk now steven about another aspect

00:40:19.200 - 00:40:46.870

of your, of your college experience and the decision to follow in your in your father's um footsteps and pursue a career in the Navy In the 1950s as a holdover. And during the Cold War there was a full military draft and a high percentage of males

00:40:46.880 - 00:41:07.840

were drafted. And my dad advised I follow his example and planned my military service by serving as an officer. So I enrolled in the ROTC at Harvard and decided to get into the naval ROTC because the thought of being on a ship was more appealing to

00:41:07.840 - 00:41:33.070

me than being out in a field somewhere in the army and following his footsteps. So I've spent four years in Naval ROTC, which consumed a reasonable percentage of my education at Harvard because I had to take one full Naval ROTC course every semester and it was

00:41:33.070 - 00:41:54.740

an additional course to the regular curriculum, but it counted. And I got college credit in Naval ROTC. And uh I was active in my Navy unit. And uh but because I started dating bootsie wool from Birmingham Alabama who went to Pine Manor my junior year and

00:41:54.740 - 00:42:13.740

we felt very much in love and got engaged and planned to be married right after I was commissioned and graduated from Harvard, I tried to get shore duty, but I didn't get it and I was assigned to a ship out of new york city. It was

00:42:13.750 - 00:42:31.260

considered close to shore duty because it only went to sea for two weeks at a time. It took reservists. We were part of the reserve fleet. It was an old World War two destroyer that was still in active duty but was only used for training naval

00:42:31.260 - 00:42:50.020

reservists who had to do their two weeks of summer active duty aboard or two weeks of active duty aboard a ship for training. In the winter, we would go to caribbean ports, which was very pleasant. And in the summer we would go to Canadian ports, which

00:42:50.020 - 00:43:06.910

was also very pleasant. We would sail north for a week and be import for two days and then come back or in the, in the winter we would sail south for a week and being a Caribbean ports usually in either san juan or or ST thomas,

00:43:06.920 - 00:43:30.520

Virgin Islands. Doesn't sound all that all that terrible. Uh, I had one almost wartime experience uh in October of 1962, the Cuban missile crisis occurred and my commanding officer informed me that I was the boarding and search officer. So I had to go find out what

00:43:30.520 - 00:43:50.650

my duties would be if our and our destroyer was detached from reserve duty and sent to do picket duty, meaning that we would form a line of ships to stop a Russian trawler bringing missile parts into CUBA. We never saw a ship, but if we had

00:43:50.660 - 00:44:08.120

and if we could get it to stop by firing a shot across its bow and hose to and allow us to board, I would be the officer who was the chief petty officer with a 45 automatic would get in a 45-foot motor whale boat and crew

00:44:08.120 - 00:44:24.220

and go across the open water and come up a ladder and inspect the ship. And I read in the manual that my, my duty, if I were the boarding and search officer was to dress in my dress whites with a sword and uh, speak, I had

00:44:24.220 - 00:44:45.700

to learn some Russian commands that would help me identify where the, where the uh, where the missiles were. Also. I think I've told you the story of how my commanding officer who with whom I had a wonderful relationship. Uh, I'm, I'm open about my Judaism always

00:44:45.700 - 00:45:03.120

have been and he asked me to become the jewish lay leader on our ship. And actually there were only three other jews aboard. They were all sailors. Uh, there, I know that I knew them by their last names. I, because I called them by their last

00:45:03.120 - 00:45:26.680

names. There was Shapiro, Levin and Garfinkel. And when we got close to Passover, I went to the USo, which happened to be in Times Square and got the materials from the then jewish welfare board, which I never knew much about the jewish welfare board. But I,

00:45:26.690 - 00:45:45.810

since once I became active in the jewish community center and then got on the board of the parent body. The jewish Community center association, which was then called the national jewish welfare board before it changed its name to J. C. C. A. Jewish Community center Association,

00:45:46.030 - 00:46:09.670

the National jewish welfare board still today as part of the J. C. C. A. And recruits, all of the chaplain's, the rabbis to do active duty in the armed services. And uh we are in very important demand in the military to staff the military with chaplains.

00:46:09.680 - 00:46:28.020

Well on a ship that doesn't have a chaplain, there's something called a jewish lay leader. So I went to the USO and got the supplies provided by the J. W. B. Which would be the High God. Um and cans of gefilte fish and matzo ball soup

00:46:28.030 - 00:46:49.060

and matzos and uh everything I needed to hold a seder. And we, the cook cooked a delicious dinner for us and on the mess decks, not in the officer's wardroom, but on the mess decks they set aside an area for us. And uh there were only

00:46:49.060 - 00:47:07.770

four of us, but around 20 sailors got off of watch and attended our Seder um being reformed and not having very good command of hebrew, I persuaded Garfinkel, who was the oldest of the four of us to be the elder and he conducted the seder service

00:47:07.780 - 00:47:26.810

while we were plowing our way. Um It would be in april. So it was probably, we were probably still going south in april and going toward the Caribbean uh during that period. And we had a wonderful time and sang the songs and did the prayers. And

00:47:26.820 - 00:47:48.190

uh my memory is the two of the uh three uh had uh sally and uh and the Yamaha and wore it for the service. That's my memory to two of the four of us uh war traditional garb for our service in the mess decks of the

00:47:48.200 - 00:48:09.700

USs john hood wow, very nice. And I'm sure for a, for a bunch of your shipmates that was their first introduction to Matzo and Gefilte fish probably, I don't know to the rest of the shipmates. Absolutely yeah, they fixed us like chicken dinner. Very nice, very

00:48:09.700 - 00:48:29.950

traditional. Um talk now a little bit about um after the navy use a brief sojourn in Atlanta before coming back to Houston. My father was in the property and casualty insurance business as I mentioned a while ago and had a successful insurance agency and wanted me

00:48:29.950 - 00:48:47.590

to go into it. But quite candidly he never seemed to like the business very much didn't work that hard. He came home early in the afternoon, was much more interested in uh investing in real estate. And so even though he said I could go into his

00:48:47.590 - 00:49:07.140

agency and run it someday, it didn't have the appeal because he didn't seem so interested. But there was a fellow there named Sid Smiley who ran the life insurance area, which my dad did not know and I used to work with him and I started liking

00:49:07.150 - 00:49:24.490

the life insurance side and it seemed like it was my dad encouraged me to to follow that because he foresaw that I might learn the life side and hire someone to run the other side of the business and still take over his agency and to help

00:49:24.490 - 00:49:40.990

me learn the life business, he recommended that I visit with the man he thought was the dean of the life salesman in Houston, A guy by the name of Hank Hamil and he was my mentor then on on how to train to go in the life

00:49:41.000 - 00:49:57.980

business. And uh on on a one time when I was home on leave visit with him and he said if you want to go in the life business when you get out of the navy you should uh apply to work in a in a major life

00:49:57.990 - 00:50:16.600

agency in a in another city. And he gave me a couple of ones to check on. One of which was in Atlanta. Um uh the Dylan Griffin Agency of National Life in Vermont. So um I have, while I was in the Navy I wrote a letter

00:50:16.600 - 00:50:35.930

to Warren Griffin who was the general agent and uh he said he would be happy to interview me. So once on leave I flew to Atlanta and interviewed him and he offered me a position. I convinced him that because Vincey was from Birmingham and didn't want

00:50:35.930 - 00:50:57.160

to move to Houston I might live in Atlanta. And so, uh, we made a decision that when we were, after we were married, uh, we would uh, live in new york in Brooklyn while I was in the Navy. But then we would move to Atlanta and

00:50:57.160 - 00:51:19.910

uh, I had a job lined up for, uh, going in the life business cold. Um, I, uh, my daughter, Lauren was born a few days before I finished my navy tour. My wife and her mother had gone to Atlanta and picked out an apartment for us.

00:51:20.540 - 00:51:43.710

So I was released in July of 1964 From the Navy after two years active duty, I moved to Atlanta with a brand new baby and a little bride and started cold in the life insurance business, working for national life of Vermont um, the way that they

00:51:43.710 - 00:52:01.920

helped you get started, they gave you a subsistence amount to live on. But it was enough. I could live on it. I think it was $600 a month as a loan. And I built up the loan and I started selling to uh, Georgia tech seniors. The

00:52:01.930 - 00:52:19.440

guys who were gonna come out of Georgia tech when they graduated would make a good living as a, As an engineer in their first job and many of them married. So I would call on these newlywed seniors at Georgia Tech and sell them life insurance while

00:52:19.440 - 00:52:47.290

I was working there. And I, uh, I started in July of 1962. Excuse ME, And uh, I worked until July of 1965 when I had sold enough in Atlanta, two strangers to uh make the million dollar round table, which was then considered a success in the

00:52:47.290 - 00:53:07.830

life insurance business. And I figured, well I've worked a year, I followed hank's advice. Um, I had, by the way, uh, joined the temple in uh Atlanta. I had become a member of the board of the american jewish committee or at least of a committee there

00:53:07.830 - 00:53:21.190

in Atlanta. I started working there and uh, I thought I was gonna live in Atlanta, but once I was a success, I thought gee whiz, I'll go back to Houston where I know a lot of people that I grew up with and it'll be a lot

00:53:21.190 - 00:53:44.400

easier. And I talked to my bride into moving to Houston, which we did uh, in August of 1960, um five August of 1965 after a year in Atlanta and I came to Houston and uh, I got advice from Slugger Cohen who was a past president of

00:53:44.400 - 00:54:05.810

Federation but had an advertising agency and uh, formed steven M. Kaufman and company, even though I was with the mass mutual agency, I took an independent title like most of the mass mutual agents did and went in business selling life insurance in Houston. What is it

00:54:05.810 - 00:54:34.480

that you find particularly rewarding or or meaningful about working in the life insurance industry? I liked counseling people on their family finances. I would sit with a young couple that were expecting a baby and I learned how to project what kind of income they would have

00:54:34.480 - 00:54:56.190

from their various company benefits. And in the event of the death of the breadwinner. And in those days the male worked and the woman didn't, it was rare that both worked. The loss of the man's income was an insurable reason to uh to to take out

00:54:56.190 - 00:55:14.520

life insurance. And so I got started with what was called basic programming and I was, I was aggressive and called on better to do people. I would I would meet someone and then I would meet his boss and I would call on his boss, I knew

00:55:14.520 - 00:55:34.400

how to uh telephone people and get appointments. Even even in Atlanta. I had some fairly well to do people that I did programming for and they had greater needs because they had greater incomes and again they had certain benefits from their companies. They had a family

00:55:34.400 - 00:55:57.200

to protect. And I enjoyed doing that. Um I was mentored by the more successful insurance agents in the mass mutual agency in Houston and quickly started um calling on people who were in business in Houston. I had friends who had gone in business and I learned

00:55:57.200 - 00:56:21.150

from the better uh successful agents that uh there was something called business continuity planning if two people uh were partners in a law firm or in a dental or medical practice or owned and owned a company and they had an interest in this business. And one

00:56:21.150 - 00:56:43.100

of them died, what how would the survivor have the funds with which to buy out the interest of the deceased? And so there's something called buy and sell insurance planning. And then as as I worked with wealthier and wealthier people, I found it very interesting uh

00:56:43.110 - 00:57:09.030

to help them protect their estates against federal estate taxes. Uh being ambitious and not being shy about uh asking for introductions to successful businesses, I began to find it quite interesting to do estate planning and to help people with wealth uh protect their wealth and pass

00:57:09.030 - 00:57:33.930

it along to their families. Uh So life insurance has multiple uses uh liquidity and death can be extremely helpful in replacing lost income, which was the early family protection purpose in paying the state taxes, which was the estate planning purpose in buying a business interest, which

00:57:33.930 - 00:58:04.690

was the buy and sell uh corporate continuity planning. And I found uh all of that very very interesting. Um I became quite successful in the in the agency. And uh the general agent, Carl Taghi invited his uh super producers to a special group, Go get away.

00:58:05.210 - 00:58:28.550

And Gus Comiskey was another member of the mass mutual agency and was quite successful as was I And he and I were in San Antonio at uh at one of the uh super producer meetings uh when he said to me Steven, there's a new group form

00:58:28.560 - 00:58:47.830

called the $5 million forum, which is like a super million dollar round table and they have a meeting coming up next spring in Florida and I'm planning to go to it, I think you ought to go. And so an and I agreed that we would apply

00:58:47.830 - 00:59:11.250

to the forum, I had enough production to qualify for it. So apparently I sold $5 million dollars or more of life insurance by that time And this was in 1977. Um So this was uh 12 years after I'd moved back to Houston. Um and we went

00:59:11.250 - 00:59:37.320

to the $5 million dollars forum and uh interestingly it uh it rained a lot and so we didn't we didn't we didn't get to uh play tennis a lot, but we played bridge with Gus and Karen Comiskey. And on the way back I said something to

00:59:37.320 - 01:00:01.670

gus uh why don't we? Because I've heard people at that meeting, we're talking about executive benefits, consulting and selling huge amounts of insurance, millions of dollars of premiums, not face amount to major public companies in order to ensure the promises being made to the executives. And

01:00:01.670 - 01:00:24.860

so we decided to form Comiskey, Kaufman when we got back and coincidentally on that same 1st $5 million forum trip. My wife Anne had seen a U. J. A bag of a good friend of hers with whom she was playing tennis Carol Solomon from philadelphia and

01:00:24.870 - 01:00:44.570

her husband, Mark Solomon was very active in Israel bonds and a national U. J. And the young leadership cabinet, which I had not yet joined even though I was by nana, vice president of Houston federation. And uh Mark and Carol invited ANne and me to go

01:00:44.570 - 01:01:05.980

on a mission to Israel for life insurance agents uh which we agreed to do. Anyway, that's another story how we started getting active in organizing uh jewish insurance agents around the United States to be active in both Israel bonds and uh and in the United jewish

01:01:05.980 - 01:01:25.050

campaign. Um I wanna I wanna go back a little bit. I know that you know your your your first marriage had some difficulties and for a while, you know, early in your in your career you are also a single parent um for a while. Do you

01:01:25.050 - 01:01:49.360

wanna do you wanna just talk about being a being a single parent? And um my my sweet wife Bootsy apparently was frail and not well put together emotionally. Um I guess I sensed it because in a way I sheltered her but uh particularly once we moved

01:01:49.360 - 01:02:14.820

back to Houston because my family is very gregarious, some would say aggressive outgoing and they very much are travel and wanted us to be involved in everything and boozy was shy and and and reserved and felt a little overwhelmed by them. Um It's two years after

01:02:14.820 - 01:02:44.800

we moved back she was pregnant And we were expecting our second child. And this would have been in 1960, Let's see 1966. In October of 1966. Uh we had a little girl three months prematurely. Jennifer was born and she had insufficiently developed lungs And uh lived

01:02:44.800 - 01:03:10.920

in an incubator for three days and then did not survive. And within a couple of days it became apparent that Bootsy had spun into form of mental illness and was totally falling apart and was very difficult to manage and was erratic and uh I found out

01:03:10.920 - 01:03:37.400

about a psychiatrist and she was admitted to methodist hospital and was restrained and was held on that floor. And uh I didn't like the way she was being treated there. Uh My sister had had been in psychotherapy and I visited with her uh analyst J. Maxwell

01:03:37.400 - 01:03:58.180

dr Maxwell who I didn't know and I said you're the only psychiatrist I don't like my wife's psychiatrist. And it turns out that, you know, he was a hospital psychiatrist who used heavy medication. J. Maxwell was a psychoanalyst who believed in psychotherapy. And he told me

01:03:58.180 - 01:04:20.430

about a hospital that he thought could could get my get Bootsy back to normal chestnut Lodge in the suburbs of Washington D. C. In Rockville Maryland. I visited there and I got to be persuaded that they could help Bootsy and with the financial assistance of Bush's

01:04:20.430 - 01:04:46.740

father and my father I persuaded boozy let me take her to to Chestnut Lodge and she uh was persuaded to be admitted and they took over her care. And for five years she was in this psycho psychiatric residential hospital. Um She was able to have Lauren

01:04:46.740 - 01:05:11.400

and me visit her periodically. I visit her without Lauren periodically. Um I maintained the home so that if she ever wanted to come back she could. I got a homemaker who was a very warm, nurturing person who helped me parent. Uh Candidly I really like parenting

01:05:11.400 - 01:05:30.450

and I took over as a single parent. Um My contemporaries were not involved in their Children's rearing, but I enjoyed being a single parent. Um I continue to work in the insurance business but only enough to to raise enough to to support our ourselves. I made

01:05:30.460 - 01:05:50.670

I did I made a decent living but not much. But I continue to be very active in uh extracurricular activities. I do you want me to go into the organizations in which I became involved? Well I'd like to hear more about um how you became involved

01:05:50.670 - 01:06:11.920

in the Citizens for Good Schools campaign, which is also how you met and not really. Um but before I became involved in CGs or know about the same time I was involved in CGs. I was active in the A. J. C. Chapter and was the chapter

01:06:11.920 - 01:06:33.450

chairman and was very active in A. J. C. I had also gotten on some committees at the JCC and served on committees with an there. So we knew each other and had a distant relationship. She uh and her husband Kenneth are the same age as my

01:06:33.450 - 01:06:51.710

sister Susan. So there really were older than I but were in my sister's social crowd. Uh She was in BBg not STP but Kenneth was an S. A. R. Type. So she ran around more with the and she she left immanuel and joined Beth Israel when

01:06:51.710 - 01:07:13.360

she married Kenneth. So she was in the in the Beth Israel social group that Bootsie and I were tangentially in but because of Bootsie shyness we weren't all that active and once I was a single I didn't go to that many things socially. But um I

01:07:13.360 - 01:07:34.710

had uh debate a former debate buddy of mine, victor Emmanuel called me in 1967 and said he was gonna help run the political campaign for georgios er who was running for the school board. Did I want to get involved. And so I did. And I became

01:07:34.710 - 01:07:58.890

one of the leaders of the georgios er campaign along with Jonathan day and victor Emmanuel and victor vic Samuels and Terri Lynn uh then Terri Lynn Neil and uh she's still Terri Lynn Neil and we uh we we we unsuccessfully campaigned for George. Oh sir and

01:07:58.890 - 01:08:15.870

the conservative members of the school board came up with a roost where he had a fallacy in his registration. So he was taken off the ballot right before the election. But we had gotten we had raised a lot of money and we were advertising and he

01:08:15.870 - 01:08:35.480

was expected uh to successfully defeat uh this mrs Cullen who he who was a member of the school board that he was running against. That was in um that was the 1967 campaign. And what was the platform, sorry, Stephen, what was the platform that he had

01:08:35.480 - 01:09:03.560

run on? What what specific reforms was he advocating at that time? The uh the school board had foolishly canceled the Conservative school board had foolishly as a budget saving technique, canceled citywide free kindergarten. And so we ran on a platform to restore kindergarten because that was

01:09:03.560 - 01:09:30.090

a hot emotional issue. Um We we we we uh we there was a very uh DeBakey and Cooley were then doing heart transplants. And the campaign we ran had a big red heart and we ran on the slogan and I was in charge of the advertising.

01:09:30.100 - 01:09:50.210

We ran on the on the slogan, the school board needs a heart transplant. And uh we uh had gotten the advice of Richard Murray, who was then, he's my age today, he's 80 years old. He was then a very young social scientist at the University of

01:09:50.210 - 01:10:12.310

Houston. And he had done some polling and he persuaded us that if we could get the usual big turnout in the black precincts And 30 or 35% of the southwest Houston votes, we could elect Georgios er and defeat mrs Cullen. So we ran a progressive campaign

01:10:12.320 - 01:10:37.880

to restore free kindergarten. He he was kicked off the ballot just before the election, there was a big out roar about it. So we used the the uproar to form citizens for good schools and recruited moderates from all over Houston into a uh progressive organization. Um

01:10:37.890 - 01:10:59.650

Vic Samuels became the president. We attended every school board meeting, we held press conferences criticizing the conservatives who were running the school board for the things they were doing and lobbied the two years from the time Ozer was kicked off of the campaign, we planned always

01:10:59.660 - 01:11:27.640

uh no, no a year the whole in one year we were going to run a campaign to unseat the uh the conservative majority. So we ran Robbins, Tinsley Everette and Ozer and I have been active in the United Way as well, and was on a committee

01:11:27.650 - 01:11:45.500

which was kind of a blue ribbon panel appointed by the United Way and the mayor's office to investigate. Uh there was a panel on the uh that was called the kerner Commission. There'd been race riots all over the United States. And Otto kerner, the governor of

01:11:45.500 - 01:12:05.650

Ohio chaired a commission. And so we had a Houston commission run by the United Way called the kerner Commission report to see what could be done in Houston on interracial affairs to avoid race riots, and I had met this wonderful republican leonora Montgomery. She and I

01:12:05.650 - 01:12:20.400

got to know each other and I tried to recruit her to run for the school board. She said I'm not very political, but I know the head of the P. T. A. Out in the Southwest use scenario Eleanor Tinsley, Why don't you go get her to

01:12:20.400 - 01:12:40.590

run? So vic Samuels? And I called on Eleanor Tinsley and persuaded her to run. And uh we got the others georgios er was gonna run. And uh we had allies from the Ozer campaign in the black community and they put together their group and they nominated

01:12:40.600 - 01:13:02.790

uh de Leon Everette who was the black candidate. And we we had a successful campaign and we we won the election in 1960 in 1967 or 1968 and then in 69 we won the other races. And that's when ANne was working. I was active at CGs

01:13:02.790 - 01:13:21.790

and an was running the neighborhood uh get out the vote campaign in the black boxes. And I uh spent time during the CGs campaign uh would would she then became a member of the steering committee of CGs. And we just spent time on that steering committee.

01:13:22.330 - 01:13:45.630

So when uh Bootsie tried to move back to Houston ah I would say around uh 1919 73 the end of 73 she tried to move back to Houston and and lived here about two months and she threw up her hands and said she just couldn't do

01:13:45.630 - 01:14:02.230

it and left and moved back to Rockville Maryland. And that's when it occurred to me uh because my dad came to see me and said look steven, don't you think you've tried hard enough to hold your family together, aren't you entitled to a life? So I

01:14:02.230 - 01:14:20.420

decided to get divorced and uh I had not dated or anything, but the first person who came to mind when uh I started thinking about the days when I would be single was an Margolis who was single then because she and Canada divorced. And so um

01:14:20.430 - 01:14:40.220

the only person I took out when I got divorced was an and two months after, I mean it was a whirlwind courtship. Uh two months after we after I was single, she and I were married because my mother couldn't wait for me to remarry. She she

01:14:40.220 - 01:15:01.270

was so excited. She just loved dan. I'm sure that's that's that's great. I want to finish one point from um the story about Citizens for good schools for for anybody watching this interview who's not familiar with that group, Besides pushing for a free kindergarten in Houston.

01:15:01.280 - 01:15:22.670

What were some of the other um issues on the platform of Citizens for good schools? What did you all fight for back then? We we fought openly for peaceful integration of the Houston schools. When our four candidates ran it was known by the whites that voted

01:15:22.680 - 01:15:43.290

for our candidates that we would plan a peaceful integration of the Houston independent school district. The the uh people who had run the Houston schools prior to that had been just like the rest of the south with what was called separate but equal. But they were

01:15:43.290 - 01:16:04.820

fully segregated schools. And we said we're going to obey the law of the land and we're going to integrate the schools and the school board majority brought in dr George Garber who became superintendent And the four with 4-3 votes. They in fact peacefully integrated the Houston

01:16:04.820 - 01:16:25.480

schools. And when they then had all seven members of the school board because we took over the school board, uh they started doing other progressive things such as the creation of the Houston Community College which were held in the evenings in high schools around Houston. But

01:16:25.480 - 01:16:47.660

they were very wise, they created it as a separate taxing entity and the Houston community college system. The Volunteers in public schools. We we were a progressive group. Um And by the way, Jonathan Day who was the campaign chairman for the successful CGs elections was recruited

01:16:47.660 - 01:17:10.070

by fred Hofheinz and he successfully ran fred Hofheinz campaign for mayor of Houston. So we shifted from uh you know all of Houston then was integrated. The stories were integrated, everything was integrated because uh we had progressive leadership then of the city and of the night

01:17:10.070 - 01:17:29.310

of the county. But of the city end of the school district, the biggest school district. H. I. S. D. Right, Very good. Yeah, thank you for that explanation. So so you and and both have been incredibly active over many decades in leadership positions in the Houston

01:17:29.310 - 01:17:45.020

jewish community and I'm sure I'll leave things out. But you've been past president of the jewish Federation of Greater Houston, you've been a president, I believe, of the board of the jewish community centers. As your daughter Lauren, you've been active, as you said, with the american

01:17:45.020 - 01:18:06.050

jewish committee um and also with with non jewish organizations including the United Way, Why why is is community service so important to you and your family and what what is it that you think makes the Houston jewish community unique or special? Well the first question my

01:18:06.050 - 01:18:34.560

mother had been active uh she had run the uh women's division of the United Way campaign in Houston had been president of the uh I can't remember the name of the National council of jewish women and so on. My dad was active and had been active

01:18:34.560 - 01:18:56.430

in non jewish things. It had always been part of citizenship. Uh As I said, I got active when I first got involved apparently ann had the same thing, She had been in uh involved in charitable work at Emanuel. Uh I worked in the United Way. I

01:18:56.440 - 01:19:17.950

helped make the Alexis De Tocqueville Society a big success co chairing a campaign with ken, lay before Enron collapsed and shared the United Way campaign in Houston, I can't tell you it's just part of being good citizens. Um I think we got involved in the United

01:19:17.950 - 01:19:35.720

Way because hans Maier, who was the executive center, wanted some of his former leadership to then be active at the United Way and to this day, uh there are jews who are major donors in the United Way and in the United Way leadership and both the

01:19:35.720 - 01:19:57.600

center and the jewish family service received major contributions from the United Way. Unlike our counterparts around the United States, many J. C. C s around the United States no longer get the United Way funding. They only get funding from their federations um because they haven't done

01:19:57.600 - 01:20:12.700

what we did, which was get involved in the general community, it's just been a part of being good citizens. Yeah. Yeah and I think it's a it's a wonderful lesson you know that if you engage in the affairs of the greater community, that the greater community

01:20:12.700 - 01:20:31.140

will, will turn around and support you as well. So having grown up in Houston and gone away and and come back um as an adult, what what is it about the Houston jewish community that do you think is is unique not just the Houston jewish community

01:20:31.140 - 01:20:58.560

but the Houston community. The Houston jewish community has been led um ever since the peace was made between Emmanuel and Beth Israel, I believe that the major rabbis have had a make nice attitude toward each other. Um Joseph Radinsky, who was the uh blessed memory, the

01:20:58.570 - 01:21:21.340

the head of the United Orthodox synagogues was very active in the federation and was a good friend of mine. I we had meals in his home even though we were Beth Israel members. Uh, the Houston jewish community has been traditionally a collaborative organization. I know that

01:21:21.350 - 01:21:43.750

the Federation uh tried to be a police force and used its muscle every now and then when an organization would act a little too independently. Um, I remember even when I was a 28 year president of the, of the american jewish committee uh, and A. D.

01:21:43.750 - 01:22:00.750

L. And J. C. C A J. C. Were competitive when we wanted to hold a rally at jones hall, when the soviet dance company was coming in order to protests the refusal of immigration to Israel, uh, I got the the executive, the A. D. L. To

01:22:00.750 - 01:22:25.760

join with me and we picketed jones hall together. We've just been a get along community. And um, the greater Houston community is open to any comer. There's, there's the jews are fully integrated into the major arts organizations and other organizations. If you're a player, if you

01:22:25.760 - 01:22:48.680

contribute, if you put your shoulder to the wheel. Houston has been a growing community in its business community and civic community because it recognizes volunteers of every color and every stripe. And uh it's just traditional in the jewish and the non jewish community to uh, to

01:22:48.680 - 01:23:07.640

be a contributor and therefore to be regarded uh, peacefully and, and get along well. Yeah. And I think it's, it's really rewarding to see how this tradition has continued throughout multiple generations of your family as you've, as you've talked about to that. But we're almost out

01:23:07.640 - 01:23:28.840

of time, but it is 2021 we're, we're coming up into the one year anniversary of the beginning of this coronavirus pandemic, which is totally upended normal life and, you know, canceled many in person gatherings. And, and there's um many health precautions that we've had to take.

01:23:28.840 - 01:23:46.700

So I'm just curious, you know, steven to hear about how this, you know, how, how your life has changed these last few months in terms of um social distancing, staying inside doing, you know, more things on the computer than you otherwise might. How have you, how

01:23:46.700 - 01:24:06.370

you've been been staying active and staying connected these last several months in so many ways my life has had moments that were assured and one of them was That a year and a half ago I made a decision that on February one of of of last

01:24:06.370 - 01:24:26.810

year I would retire from being active in the life insurance business and lo and behold, you know, what happened right after February 1st. Um, so an had to make a decision on how to reorganize her life at the same time that I was reorganizing my life.

01:24:26.820 - 01:24:49.640

And she and I have have lived together. We've we've uh truthfully uh we aren't sure how much we want to go back to normal. We have had such a splendid time being cooped up together and organizing our lives together. Um We uh play bridge three days

01:24:49.640 - 01:25:10.260

a week. We do go play tennis outdoors when the weather is nice together, she plays with her women, I play with my men friends uh and we play on our courts here at Four Leaf Towers together. Um But other things have happened that have enriched our

01:25:10.260 - 01:25:35.600

lives. Uh Two of my three service to surviving college roommates with whom I was only getting together for Harvard fifth, 25th and 35th reunions. And uh would have been getting together and 50th and would have gotten together for 60th for noah 50th coming up. Um We

01:25:35.600 - 01:25:55.280

started having zooms on Sundays every other sunday and we have continued it and its splendid for an hour and a half or two. The six of us have a splendid time because we share so much in common. Uh There's there's a jewish couple from Houston that

01:25:55.280 - 01:26:16.080

regrettably moved to L. A. Because their Children lived there and they owned a summer home there with whom we now have saturday night dinner every saturday night we've reunited with them. Uh There are others with whom we have regular zooms. Uh I'm in a zoom breakfast

01:26:16.080 - 01:26:39.810

group. I'm in a zoom luncheon group. That, that is monthly. I'm in a weekly breakfast group. My cousin and I Billy Latin and I and leash langer have lunch together every every week. Armand Shapiro and I have monthly zoom lunches. Um and has become has rediscovered

01:26:39.810 - 01:26:58.990

her her uh cooking. I have a photograph of her at the counter here in the kitchen, uh looking in her uh expand, oh, file for recipes. She has rediscovered things. She likes to cook. We love to eat at home. I'm sure we're gonna need a home

01:26:58.990 - 01:27:23.060

much more than we used to. Uh before we still adhere originally to the rules, we wear double masks. We we have started visiting with Lauren on her terrace and Jeff on his terrace, we've been out to dinner a total of three times and only on terraces

01:27:23.070 - 01:27:45.290

since Covid occurred. Um We will stick to the rules. We're gonna, even though we have had our second shot and will be presumably uh plenty antibody. We don't wanna be carrier and infect someone else. We're gonna we're gonna continue to wear double masks candidly. We've loved

01:27:45.290 - 01:28:05.440

each other's company. It's enriched our marriage and our lives and I have huge survivor's guilt because of all the people that are suffering. And here I'm not suffering at all. And in fact, it's enriched my life. Well that's that's good to hear steven and it's inspiring,

01:28:05.450 - 01:28:22.180

you know, to hear how you've how you and and have made use of the opportunity to reconnect with people in different parts of the country and and also staying safe. What about, what about holidays? What did you do for Russia shawna this this past year? Well,

01:28:22.180 - 01:28:47.700

some of my Beth Israel friends won't like this, but we, we followed cantor moot lou we streamed central synagogue in new york city over on Lawrence terrace on her laptop. We streamed Russia shawna called night and Russia shawna night and Russia shawna day and Yom kippur

01:28:47.700 - 01:29:12.070

day. No poor day. We like the services of Beth Israel. So we attended the symposium by streaming and we stayed through Neela by streaming and we fasted but the eaves, we stream central synagogue there there, Chief Rabbi, you should attend that service. She is a glorious

01:29:12.080 - 01:29:34.320

cantor voice and she and lou reed the service ultimately and sing the service and harmony together. Uh, it is a glorious service that you would enjoy. Rabbi Rabbi Angela. Um, I hope I'm not mispronouncing her name. She gave a powerful, really powerful sermon this year about

01:29:34.330 - 01:29:51.050

about jews and, and race and being, being a more open um community and being more more accepting of diversity. I I did have an opportunity to, to watch and it was quite powerful. You must have seen it on youtube or did you attend? I I saw

01:29:51.050 - 01:30:09.840

it on youtube, I don't, I don't use technology on shabbat and holidays, but if it's on youtube, I can always watch it and and and download it later. Well, Stephen, this has been a really fascinating and enlightening conversation. I feel like we've we've we've we've learned

01:30:09.840 - 01:30:27.000

so much and I'm so grateful for the opportunity to talk to you today and to record these stories for for future generations. So thank you so much. Well, josh, thank you for what you're during doing. To preserve the history of the Houston, jewish community. You're doing

01:30:27.000 - 01:30:43.790

a mitzvah. You're going to make it easier for my family to be able to know what went on in this city years and years ago when they in future generations want to look back. Thank you for doing it, you bet, Stephen, my pleasure, thank you so

01:30:43.790 - 01:30:44.270

much.