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Today is Friday, May 3rd, 2024. My name is Hannah Son and I'm here today with Miss Sharifah Shakirah on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice University. To start, can you please state your full name and where and when you were born? Sure. My name is Sharifah Shakirah. I was born in Buthidaung Township in Arakan State, Burma, and I grew up in Malaysia as a refugee. Wonderful. Thank you so much. And how would you describe the household you grew up in? The household that I grew up in Malaysia is quite small, because we were sharing the space with the other refugees' families who not—who are not, able to afford the rental by a family. So basically, we used to live in a—one apartment with a lot of people, and we used to share every space that we have.

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And was that common for the Rohingya population where you grew up? Yes, it's very common, because the living expenses are very high, and refugee are not allowed to work in the country legally. So people just try to work as much as they can and try to support their family. And it's still not enough. So the refugee community tried to share with each other what, you know, whatever they have. I see. And so could you share what your parents did for work during that time? Can you repeat again?

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What did your parents do for work during that time? So my mom was a housewife. My father used to work in vegetable markets, so he used to help, the–the shop owner to sell vegetables. And how many siblings do you have? We are six siblings, and I'm the eldest, and we are three sisters and three brothers.

00:02:09.220 - 00:03:57.500

Wonderful. Throughout your childhood, what were some of the values that your parents emphasized in your upbringing? My—our childhood was very tough, and one of the things my father still today advises is that be sincere in what you do and trust in your God, and the rest will be fine [laughs]. And I learned from my mom that nothing should—we should never give up, and we should hold on our resilience and move forward. And can you share more about what it was like as a young child in the Buthidaung township in Myanmar? When I was young—okay, so Rohingya situation is Burma from beginning until today is really, really bad. We are facing genocide in our country. Our name, our identity, our language, our culture are being destroyed. My citizenship was taken. You were made stateless. When I was born, I was made—I was born as a stateless child. I have no right to study in the country. I have no rights to move around in the country. I have no rights, basically anything else. I would just able to live there. But when I start growing up, I realized that the problem in the country are really bad. Young girls were taken by the military. They raped them. The boys was taken, put them in jail. And, you know, things are really bad. My parents decided that we are no longer safe, and that's how we left the country. So I was very young when I left the country. I was about five years old.

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I see. And were all—was your entire family able to–to leave together? No, the situations are so bad that we could not leave the country as a family. So my father came first, and then me, my mother, and my two siblings tried to leave the country. But again, the situation was so bad that my mom was in prison because, we are not allowed to travel within the country. So she was imprisoned. My siblings got separated, and after two years we continue the journey individually. So my siblings, one by one, cross the borders, myself, my mom. After that, after few months, we reunite as a family in Malaysia. Oh, wow. How was the process of kind of finding each other again and reuniting like in Malaysia? So, my father was still in touch with us, so we know where he was, and he know where we are. It's just that, we are not allowed to meet each other, but we were in contact over the phone time to time.

00:05:14.170 - 00:07:53.410

I see, and as you're kind of describing and so much of your activism really centers and works to support the Rohingya population, could you speak more to what that community is like in Malaysia specifically? Sure. So, like I said, we were made to leave our country, for many, many years now. And, I grew up as a refugee child in Malaysia who never had opportunity to go to school. Never had right to work there, never have a life, right, to do anything, basically. And I'm always felt that I don't belong there. I'm not accepted. So my life was really hard. I–I couldn't feel that I belonged there, basically. In 2012, 2011, our situation in Burma become really, really bad. People start fleeing in a bigger number, like thousands of people on a fishing boat, and they cross the borders. Especially they came to Malaysia. I was living there, and situations are still not good, people was not accepting them. The–There was a lot more other issues that was, you know, happening, like child marriage. They were selling these girls into marriages because they have no money to pay to the brokers, to the traffickers. And these girls and women was tortured in their detention camp by the traffickers and smugglers. There's a lot more was going on. And there is no organizations or NGO, anyone that is giving attention to this cause, and I felt that it is important for me to do something for my community. Especially—there was no one doing anything about it. So I start our first Rohingya women-led organization in my community around the world. And it was the first refugee women-led organization in Malaysia. So through that, we helped these victims of trafficking, victims of, you know, child marriage, victim of domestic violence, victim of detainer, victims—a lot of stuff, the child–the children and everything to—we create a safe space, and we bring them in.

00:07:53.410 - 00:10:18.980

We give them counseling. We give them skills to support themselves. We give them language that they can speak and communicate in the community. So we try to build their lives. And with that, I also found my purpose of doing it in a bigger scale. Because, again, when I say we are—we were the first refugee women-led organization, it literally mean there was no woman leader in my community that's standing or, you know, in a frontline speaking for the community, advocating for the community. And there was no refugee woman leader. There was no leader from my—there was no woman leader from my community. So we were just keeping the trauma, the torture, everything within us, and we have no platform. We have no motivation. We have no inspiration to speak for ourselves. So I thought it's very important because a community is built between men and women, and men and women need to work together to bring the nation the community forward. So I felt the call and I–I–I start, creating women leaders among us. Today, we have more than, 50 to 100 women, specifically working under me in Malaysia that are leaders, and speaking not only for themselves, but for the community in general. Wow. It's so, so great to hear about all of that great work. I would also, with that, want to ask, did you find any resistance from within the community while you were trying to raise, like, a woman-led organization? What was that like? Yes. The community was very resistant in the beginning, and they was not really accepting of young girls sitting in a same table as them and speaking the very sensitive topic, issues and, you know, raising all these, issues that they believe have to be within the family, within the community. It should not be brought up, in front of people around the world, or not be discussed, you know, among each other. A topic like domestic violence, child marriage, gender-based violence, and so on.

00:10:19.390 - 00:13:08.350

So I was very vocal about what I was doing, and these people was also feeling very insecure about my system, because I was doing and saying things that need to be done. And non-Rohingya were paying attention to what I was saying, and they were trying to help me in my mission. So all the men or so-called leaders, they–they was not liking me. I had a lot of life-threatening incidents that happened. There was time I could not live in my place. I–I literally one week in one place, another week in different places. I used to live in hotels, and I used to live in a fear that someone is knocking my door and something is happening. So I was really in trauma because of my work. But I never give up. I–I–I–I did what I need to do and today, the community are more accepting of what I do. The community are more willing to hear and work collaborate. And today we have, not only one or two, we have few Rohingya women-led organization in the camp, in Malaysia, and around the places that we are living. And we also have refugee women that is organization from different community in Malaysia as well. So I–I—it motivated me that you should not just be frightened about someone threatening you, but you should move forward and doing what you believe in. So I don't stop. Yeah. It's so admirable to–to hear about you really working to make that change in those spaces. And I think backtracking a little bit, you spoke to how your parents emphasize your God in your upbringing. Could you speak more about how you were able to experience, like, your own Rohingya identity and culture, even amidst the persecution? Sure. As I was growing up in Malaysia and I was seeing a lot of, you know, discriminations. I was feeling not accepted. I was, you know, treated very differently. So because of those feelings, I become really insecure about my identity. I try to learn new languages, try to dress up like a local people, try to behave like a local people so that I could accepted. And I, you know, be—have a friend, basically. So, I did try about that.

00:13:08.520 - 00:15:54.850

But when I start growing up, especially in 2012 when the, you know, all this incident happened, it was all over the news. I felt that I am okay who I am. And my community being persecuted is because of our identity, and our ethnicity, and our religion. So I should not change my identity or my name, language, or religion for anything else. I should stand by what—who I am, and if someone else is not happy about it, it's not my problem. So I start accepting who I am, and I–I–I believe in myself and I–I stand strong, so people have to accept me because I accept myself. I don't have very close friend, from childhood in Malaysia, from the local community. But I have good supporters, good friends, good sisters in Malaysia, from local community that, till today stand by, my mission and stand by what I–I believe in. So it was hard, but it is what it is. And with that process, I bel—I always—you see, refugee community like us, the genocide survivors like us, we have nothing left with us. We have no strong protection. We have no strong stand—we have no law that, you know, stand by us. Like, there is nothing. The only hope that we have is the God, and we always hope on him. And he's the one who guide us. He's the one who's protect us. With that understanding and with that belief, we could stand for ourselves. We could, come–come out of our trauma. So—it—refugee like us have no option but to believe in what you have and believe in what you see and come out of it. Make your weakness as a strength. Make your struggle as a strength, and move forward. That's all we are learn from our life and that's how we should be. And I even though my kids are citizen in—in—in United States—they are born here—but I still want to give them that learning, that understanding that we should always stand for ourselves first and we should always believe in ourselves, and the world will see us through us. We should not see ourselves through them.

00:15:57.490 - 00:18:12.690

Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that. And then kind of my last question about your early life—could you share about your experiences gaining or creating your own education in Malaysia when you were barred from schooling? Sure. I was not allowed to go to public school, so the only education that I have is learning from refugee school or NGO school, you know, that people volunteer to teach us. So we kind of just learn whatever available. We—I really wanted to go to school, and, I hope in United States I will have the option—opportunity to continue my education here. I'm trying to prepare myself for that. Seeing someone else my—in my community are suffering, and seeing someone else have no hope or no opportunity to build themselves. It's—it just makes me feel that when God gives you something, it's—in return, it is your responsibility to help someone else. So even though in my childhood I face a lot, I struggle the worst in my life. But in the end, I was living under my parents protection. I was—I have my siblings. I have a home, under me, even though it's small. But I was still blessed to have a protection, to have food in my table. So I feel it is my responsibility now to help someone else. So with that intention, we founded our organization, Rohingya Women Development Network and God blessed us with that. And we are helping many more people, and many more people are helping many more other people, so I'm happy about that. That is so, so great. Can you speak to how you first got involved with that form of community organizing? Was it with—like, through founding Rohingya Women's Development Network?

00:18:14.830 - 00:21:57.580

So when first I involve in this community work is actually through the volunteer works that I used to volunteer with: UNHCR, United Nations, with local NGOs in Malaysia. I always felt the call of, doing something for my community, since I was very young. Again, because I was not feeling that I belonged there. I need to, you know, I—it's remind me of my community every time. I start involving with my work as a volunteer. I was the first youth representative in United Nations for my community. I was the first person that attended as a woman in United Nation meeting among other Rohingya men, and it made me feel that there should be more. It's not only one. So my parents was not really seeing what I was trying to pursue, what I'm trying to do, because again, there was no woman leader or role models in my community that doing something out of their house, outside. Never sat side to side with a man in a meeting and, you know, present their community. So my parent was not seeing what I'm want to do. And I think they also feel insecure to allow me to go— to do what I do, because it's not safe. Nobody going to accept you. But slowly, when they see that I involve in a opportunities, when I—really stubborn in what I want to do, really, really passionate. So they allow me. They start opening the door for me slowly. And with that, I make sure they believe in me. I make sure they trust in what I do. I make sure they know that I'm not—never gonna bring them down. So with that intention, with that efforts, my parents believe in me. They start helping me. My work in volunteering become, you know, larger and larger and finally, I felt that the Rohingya Women Development Network have to be—there should be an organization that the community can feel—that it's belong to them. You know, it's a safe space for them to speak and, you know, to stand for each other. Because when another NGO or another provide–service providers go to their houses or meet them, they always bring someone like me to interpret. So I become the middle person and the connection, the emotion, it doesn't go through to the interviewer and also the interviewee. It doesn't go through, and it came to me as a translator. I feel the pain. I feel the–the connection. So I feel like— it's kind of like waste of services because you are spending money, extra money, to reach out to these people. But actually the things are not being 100% effective and it's taking time for that progress. So I felt that if I do by myself for my community, it's quicker, it's cheaper, it is better. So yeah. So I felt that–that's how it should be. Because we don't have fundings. We don't have money. We need to utilize whatever we have. So I don't want to waste anything in that process. So I felt that I need to do something. I—I have a lot in my plate that I can give, so yeah.

00:22:01.060 - 00:24:32.470

What was the process of–of building a team that was community-led, that was led by Rohingya women like–and like, finding people who could help be a part of that? So in my work, I–I used to work an interpreter in United Nations and also IRC, the resettlement agency in Malaysia. So in—whenever we have free time, I always talk about, you know, we need to do something for my community. I used to have, friends—girl—you know, ladies that, understand the–the patient. So we used to talk—so when I had this idea—actually I had this ideas because there was an NGO from Singapore that came to me and asking me to be their co-founder, and they want to work in a community. The reason they ask is because I was doing all the groundwork. I was providing workshops, finding people, doing outreach, everything. So they feel if I work with them, they can go help this community better. But I felt that, again, it's kind of waste of resources. So I decided to found by myself. And I speak with all the ladies that underst—that was willing to do something for the community. There was five Rohingya ladies that we started the conversation with. I had a regular meeting with them. Try to, you know, explain, what we want to do, and they—we start choosing who—what is—whose responsibilities are what. They choose me as a director. We came up with the name. We came up with the mission and vision. We came up with the logo. My husband helped me with our logo and vision mission. My husband was very supportive. But just before we have a proper place, which I call a safe space, a training center, one by one, they give up and they leave the group. Maybe they was, scared of the financial burden because we don't have any fundings at that time. So I was—in my initial planning was five of us contribute a little bit, but—because I believe rather than you just talk, you should do something concrete.

00:24:32.690 - 00:27:13.010

You cannot just go to the community and say that you need to empower yourself. You need to give—stand up. You need to change your life, you know? Like, nobody gonna change their life, because they don't see why they need to change their life. Unless you give them the tools, you give them the education, you give them the proper understanding, everything—a proper picture, then they're going to change their life. So I think the place, the safe–safe space or the training center that we were initially funded, you know, planning to have, it–it was very important. So when they leave the group, I was very, very upset because I was the only person left. And my husband was—I was in my grandma's house at that time. I was very, very upset, very like, very, very upset. And I couldn't even say, "Don't leave, be in the group," because I have nothing to give back to them. I really have nothing. So my husband was—"If you trust in your dream, if you believe in what you're doing, you should not wait for someone else to believe in you. You should just do what you want to do." So I was like, "That's true." Because nobody will believe in you until they see you—success. So I have no money, but we borrow some money from friends. I pay the deposit for the training center. I bought secondhand tables, chair, desk. And then, we start–I start doing the outreach to the community. I knock each person's door and, you know, tell them that there is a place that they can come and learn. And, you know, be involved. I do so much. I–I—when women start coming, I–I was their first teacher. I was teaching them. I was guiding them, I was cleaning the office. I was literally everything: the founder, the–the–the founder, the teacher, the cleaner, everything. But today we have—everything is taken care of. All our staff are paid. In Malaysia, our—we have leaders, we have volunteers. Everything is properly structured. I am still not being paid, because we don't have fundings. I rather someone else get my money and make sure the work is being done. So yeah, I'm happy with what happened. And today in United States, we are registered as 501(c). So Rohingya Women Development Network is legally registered as a nonprofit.

00:27:13.610 - 00:29:49.520

And I am trying to rebuild all those connections, go back to the first journey in my life in Malaysia where—with and where I go and knock people's door and ask them, welcome them to the center. I'm in that phase now here. And I went to the community last week. We had a small food drive. We went with my friends and volunteers, and sister to—house to house. We did the same. Introduce them to our organization, ask what they need. And I'm turning my garage to be the training center, and I hope my people will receive the services that they need here in United States as well. Wow. Would you say that in kind of developing and establishing the Rohingya Women Development Network here in the States, that that sort of on-the-ground work is your kind of main role and responsibility at this time? So my responsibility to the organization and to the community are two. And I really strongly believe in that. One is community development. have to work in a community, in a grassroots level, to empower our community, to rebuild all the structures that have been destroyed by the Myanmar government. Our social structures' been destroyed, and we have to rebuild that. We have to give the–the community the faith that they are equal as other human being. They have all the rights as human, and they can come forward. And I—we need to rebuild the structure of, you know, believing we are no less. We can be educated. We can be–we can have career in life. You know, we can be leaders, among others, especially in United States. So we have to rebuild ourselves. We need to give that hope. We have to re–rebuild our language, our culture. But just by going to their house, just speaking to them, nothing gonna change. You need to give skills to women, so that they are financially empowered. We need to give them language, so that they can speak and communicate. We need to give them counseling, so that they came up with their trauma, you know, with their mental health issue. There's a lot of things that we need to do in a grassroots level work that will help my community be strong again. That is have to be done. And inshallah, I'm trying my best.

00:29:49.950 - 00:32:50.440

Second is advocacy. The genocide in Myanmar have not ended. Every day people are dying. Every day people are being killed. Every day their houses burn down. Every day women was raped, and they are not safe. Every day people are getting—crossing the borders, either they've been arrested, put in a jail, or they've been taken advantage by the traffickers. And, most of these are the young women and–and children. So advocacy work have to be also-be done at the same time. So I do advocacy work with the government here. I do advocacy internationally, I–I attend conferences, I do whatever I need to do. And every month—every year, August 25th is our Rohingya Genocide Remembrance Day. And we had already accommodate that event in Houston past two, three years. And this year, we are planning to have it again to tell the world that there is a human exist, like Rohingya, from Asia and from Burma, and these people are facing genocide. They are having refugee crisis. They are having a lot of issues in the community, and they need to be heard. And at the same time, giving—organize–organizing this event also give a hope to my community that they are not alone. We are together, and we're going to stand and help each other out in this process, so yes. And I wish and hope that someone from your-your place or your group can also come and volunteer, help us organize this event as well. That would be so, so wonderful. Can you share more about what the response in Houston has been like to Rohingya Women's Development Network in general, to the genocide remembrance event? Kind of both within the community and outside of it. To be really honest, my work, compared to how I started in Malaysia, is way easy here because people know me. My community know me. They are people that I already work with them in Malaysia are resettled here. I've been in news, so they–they are aware of my existence. They respect me. I have—no one from the community have rejected me so far. People are willing to work. Every Rohingya Genocide Remembrance Day we have–we had, they was very supportive. Women cook. Men contribute. You know, they—the children come. We had young—youth last year that speak about their parents' experience. Everybody come together.

00:32:50.720 - 00:35:14.970

So I-I think, the people here are very willing and to hear—to get help. At the same time, they also looking forward to help out, at least be a voice for their—[video cuts out] People here are very hopeful and positive in term of wanting to change their life. Yesterday, when I met this lady, they were—she was the—when I asked her, "What do you want from us?" She say that "the only things I want right now is education. I want to know how to speak English. I want to communicate." So the people are no longer like before, where they used to say that, "Why I need to speak English? Why I need to learn?" You know, so the people are start changing their mindset as well. And in US, there's a lot of opportunities. It's just that the opportunity to go to the community directly, and we are willing to be that bridge. But again, we are also learning and trying to get fundings, trying to get, you know, opportunities so that we can help our community properly as well, so yes. In terms of the services, like, currently offered by the Rohingya Women's Development Network. You spoke so much to–to creating a safe space, which is so wonderful to hear about. Could you talk more about what kind of professional development networks and training looks like today? Sure. So we—in Malaysia, we have professional development trainings, like we have–we train the trainers. So basically, we train our community leaders with all kind of topics example, mental health, issues on mental health, how to, you know, like, cope and advocate. [video cuts out] —trained them how to communicate with UNHCR as with the refugee status. All those things, how to ask for resettlement, you know. All those things we train and, it's been successful.

00:35:15.140 - 00:37:59.860

So we collaborate with local NGOs. Sometimes we create our own program to train the trainers. When we train the trainers, the trainers will organize workshops within the community, and they will give back the training that they receive from us. So it's–it's like we are–let's say we train 20 people: these 20 people organize—each–each person maybe 20 or more, workshop by themselves to the community. So this is—are the similar opportunities that we are looking forward here in Houston, and we want to give back the same. Earlier I mentioned about our skill buildings. We have recipe books that we have created. We—I have here with me. We have ten women that cook—came out with their ten recipes, with their ten stories, to tell the world that you know, we exist. And when we sell the book, the money goes back to them, to–to those women, to the organization to do more work. We train our women how to make crafts like we have earrings are very, very famous. We have bags. We have different kind of art that we create and we sell it for them. We get orders for that from other community, and we make it, we sell it, and these women are paid for the work that they do. So it's kind of giving them that hope that, you know, "I can also earn." So when a woman earn, I'm sure you believe in this as well, that when a woman earn, when she become independent, she is actually leaving a lot of negative things behind. She can stand for herself. And that's that–that is what happened. So we would like to continue that—we call it livelihood program—that gives skills and empowerment to the women, and at the same time, bring back all those trainings here in Houston with the community here, mostly targeting the youth as well as the women here. And, of course, in–in a larger community, we–we have different set of program. But again, we are in a very initial state. We have no fundings from anywhere so far. We are a 501(c) for two years already, so I'm planning to start with whatever we have, one by one, slowly here. So we have RWDN in Malaysia. They're running perfectly fine. Now we are establishing here. I am not sure if you understand what I'm trying to say.

00:38:00.190 - 00:39:41.670

No, absolutely. And it's very kind of exciting to envision that future for the Rohingya Women's Development Network. Do— [SS: We have—] sorry. We have tools. We have vision. We have mission. We have—we know what we want to do. We have everything. It's just that one thing we need is fundings to really make it, those things available. Did I cut off? No. I think you're good. Wonderful. And so kind of looking in the long term for the future, would you want to expand to other states in the US? Are there other, like, cities in the US that have significant Rohingya populations? Yes, of course. So even now we have a partnership with Plant It Forward. It's a urban farm organization nonprofit that we already put two community members in their organization. They're learning how to do farming. So we already is trying to find options to collaborate among the local community here, NGOs here, people here, so that, you know, we can do whatever we need to do. I've been traveling to—around the US, so I've been to a few states like Milwaukee, Chicago, Indiana, Michigan, in the purpose of—intention of training the community. I've had few trainings over there. We have one more training coming up, maybe in Dallas or in Houston.

00:39:42.110 - 00:42:50.620

So, yes, we will be expanding our network, as wide as we can, because the community need help. But most of the time, to save the money and to save the time, we will come up with the—we will come up with idea that we can reuse utilize and by not, like—example, if we have topics on mental health, we will be creating that mental health program, maybe in video or audio-recorded way, so that we don't need to recreate that again in a different state. So we can just utilize what we have and have a discussion with the community, what they see, things like that. So we want to learn and do things that are sustainable and can be—easily be effective, like, work among the people, no matter where they live. Yeah. It's so wonderful to hear about, like, such a sustainable, community-based model for–for your work. I think that also just want to ask, you've been nominated for the US State Department's International Women of Courage Award, and we've talked extensively about how you've made such strides towards really changing and improving the lives of Rohingya women. What do you feel has been kind of your greatest contribution, career-wise, thus far? Is there anything you're excited for in–in your future in that regard? Sure. I was very honored when I was nominated as a Malaysia representative for International Women of Courage Award, because it's give us a lot of hope, not only to myself, to the community. Because refugees issues are so wide, and Rohingya are one of them, and people still don't know. So for a Rohingya woman to be, you know, nominated for that award means a lot for my community. And–and actually, it's also open out–open up a lot of doors, for us. And that's—through that nomination, today are the RWDN in Malaysia are sustainable. So it's very important. For the career wise, I–I want to pursue my educations. I want to continue to develop myself, as well, while I develop other people. I feel that—I always as a refugee child, I always had a dream to go to school and, you know, be properly graduated. So, I want to continue. I would love to make my dream come true. I want to study in US and learn and hold the degree in my hand. Also to give an inspiration to the Rohingya community, especially women, that being a mom, being a refugee, you know, being a activist, being a whatever you going to call. But if you want, you can do it, especially in education.

00:42:50.620 - 00:45:12.300

So I–I would like to develop myself. And I would like to travel the world with this work. I will—I have already applied for my citizens–citizenship. I'm just hoping that it will—I will get it within this year. And, as soon as I get my citizen, my passport, which is my wings [laughs] to fly, my everything, my freedom, I will be traveling to refugee camps in Bangladesh. I want to go back to Malaysia. I want to meet people. I want to, you know, expand my work, for my people. So, yes. Thank you so much for sharing that. I also very much hope that you're able to continue to pursue your personal goals. And then in the kind of global field or stage of activism and advocacy, have you faced discrimination or–or barriers as a refugee woman, as a Rohingya woman? Yes. So every time they want my background. So one thing they always ask me is what is my education level? I have no education level. I only studied in a refugee, you know, improper way like refugee school or NGO school. So I have no documents or no certificate to prove how much I have learned, so—and then, one of the things that I really feel bad that they always look at me as a refugee, as a survivor, as a victim. They don't see me as a leader for my community. They don't see that I can, you know, stand for myself and for my people. So they—the question that they ask me, you know, they—the things that they try to make me feel, it's not nice. I was not understanding this until maybe last year. And I started taking stand for myself since last year. I even, speak fearlessly, to the host community that you cannot treat me like this in the conference. So, yeah, I mean, we are human. So racism, discrimination, xenophobia, it's real. And, people treat you different. It's real.

00:45:12.300 - 00:46:48.260

But again, it's how you give back. And I think people will bring you down no matter what. No matter how far you reach, people will still bring you down. People will still judge you. They will still make you feel small. But you need to believe in yourself and, you know, give it back like, "No, I'm worth it. I am who I am. And I am not less than you, or neither you are less than me. But you need to respect me, you know, for who I am, and I need to stand for myself." Then only people will respect me. So, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then I'll move to some questions about your more recent life. When did you first move to the United States and what prompted you to do so? Sure. I was resettled in 2019, right after my nomination in—for–for the International Women of Courage. Right after, I think...maybe about...few months later, maybe a month or maybe about two three weeks. Very recently, after I got nominated, I—I got resettled to the United States. I should thanks the US Embassy in Malaysia for making my process go smoother. I was facing so much of threat there, and they make it happen, so I'm really, really glad. I'm very, very glad. With your resettlement, was your family able to move with you?

00:46:49.400 - 00:49:28.730

So my family resettled way before me [laughs] [HS: Okay.]. They came three years before I get resettled. So, I supposed to get resettled with them, but the refugee process are very complicated. It's very easy, but the people make it complicated. The organization make it complicated. So because I choose to get married, they separate me from my parents file, and I–I was pushed back for three years, and they came here, before me, so. But I'm glad they did, because, you know, they are more successful and they in school, in college. So I'm very happy for my siblings. What was it like adjusting to life in the US? Were there any challenges you felt like you faced, kind of on a more personal level? To be really honest, I'm very, very grateful to United States and the people, not just because I'm saying, you know, in the interview, but I'm really, really grateful. When I came to the airport the first day that I arrived in United States, there were unknown people who heard about me, and they came and they welcomed me. They gave me the US flag and say, "Welcome to the United States." So I—for me, that was the biggest respect that I can ever have in my life. The–the warm hug that, you know, like the accept–the accepting me who I am was everything that I was looking for, since I was born. So I–I'm really glad. But of course, coming as a refugee from a country where I was seeking refuge in Malaysia, leaving my country in a very young age, I have to rebuild myself. I have to let go a lot of things. I have to, you know, learn a lot of stuff and try to strong and, you know, learn to be accepted in the country. And coming to United States—again, I need to learn and do something differently that I can, you know, be seen as equal. So it's tough. It's not easy. But I think the people here are very kind. They–they don't make me feel that I am not able to do it, or they don't make me feel that I'm different, so far. I feel accepted, but yes, personally, the environments are different. So I still struggling to mentally to feel that this is where I belong and this is where it's supposed to be. This is what I'm supposed to be. So I'm struggling within me, but the people around me are very kind, very generous, and I've been welcomed. Yes.

00:49:30.290 - 00:51:39.280

That's really great to hear. Do you feel like you experienced any form of, like, culture shock around the US? Yes [laughs]. When I first came, I was said—told so many things and I was shocked. For two days, I was in shock, and I could not speak with my family. I just don't know what happened. I think it's also because the organization that I built in Malaysia, the family that I built, the strong connection that I have there, I have to leave everything behind and come here. It was very, very heavy for me. It was very difficult. Very difficult. More than my family, what I have achieved in Malaysia for my people was—is very important. So leaving everything behind. And with the new life, especially as a leader, you feel guilty leaving your people behind. I think that guilt, it's–it–it hold me very strongly, so I could not accept what was happening. I could not accept the reality. So I was not speaking with my family for two days. And–and then I–I emotionally was crying. I was not understanding what's happening. And when I go to a store or, you know, ask questions and they was like, "Oh, you don't say like that here," or "You don't do like that here." So it's kind of like, "Why you kind of do like that here?" You know, things like that, so yeah. The–the food, you know, the–the places. There's a lot of things I learned. I'm still learning. And it's shocked me time to time, but it is what it is. We are human and we all live different. We all behave different. So when you have that feeling or accepting each other, I think the other things are just so easy to accept and to learn and, you know, to live together. So I'm learning and I'm–I'm–I'm willing to learn way more, a lot more things. I know I need to learn a lot more stuff.

00:51:42.270 - 00:54:14.040

In the time that you've been here, have you felt like you formed an impression of Houston specifically? So before I came to United States, I was told that US is—sorry, that Texas is huge. So when—they say that if I need to order food, I need to order one plate for two person because the portions are so big. So it's a large portion. And I was like, that might not be true. But when I came here, it is true. The food I—every time I go to restaurant, I have to bring back. I need to pack the food home. The buildings are shorter in Texas compared to Malaysia, so it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of weird. And yeah, I think things are different, [laughs] obviously. It is beautiful, too. I love, how in Texas, like, everyone is around each other. Where I grew up, it's also these three main community, like, Chinese, Indians, Malay, you know. They live as a–as a diverse community in–in Malaysia. They respect each other's culture and food. And Texas are not very far from what I grew up with. There's a lot of people here from different communities. They—there's a lot of food, different type of foods. And one things I like about Texas the most is that you can find halal food wherever you go. So I've been to different states, and it is actually really hard to find halal food. There's only like maybe Mediterranean (?) or the desi food are halal, but the other kind of you cannot. But in Texas, I mean, I–I've been enjoying Indonesian food over here. I'm enjoying Malaysian food over here, the Thai food. There's a lot more—a lot more variety. So I'm very happy. And, it is different, but it's amazing. I–I don't think I will be moving out of Texas if I, you know, like—if people ask me to move from Texas, I think I would not do it without any reason because Texas is good. I like the weather, I like the food, the people here. Every—things are cool, so I'm happy. I don't like very cold weather. So yeah [laughs].

00:54:16.160 - 00:56:50.760

That's great to hear. And then could you also speak a bit more to the Rohingya community here in Houston in terms of numbers and also, like the number of membership for the Rohingya Women's Development Network here in Houston? Sure. So to be really honest, I don't have any numbers specifically how many families we have, but we have estimated around 1000 families that living in Houston area. And again, Houston are big. So, people live way far from each other, one hour drive, 40 minutes drive is just a just a driving time. But, the nearby, the closing, we—the–the close by, we have about 1000 families. And we have people that come in, new refugees coming every day. So we have—recently when I went to—two days ago, yesterday and the day before, I did a food drive. So I have covered 200—two–sorry, 20 newly arrived refugees. Like new–newly mean like a week, a month ago, like that. 20. And people are still coming, and–and I still have a lot more people to cover. So maybe next month, I will do another drive. So what I'm doing, every time I go to people's house, I just start taking their information so that we have this data to explain how many refugees are in Texas, like in—sorry, in Houston. And slowly we will expand that numbers. So estimation, we have about 1000 families, and we are having new families coming almost every day, and the numbers are growing. We touched on this earlier, but how has Rohingya Women collaborated with other ethnic communities in Houston at this point? Yes. So we–we—so, the one of the person, the first person that we collaborated is, ConnectHer is the—an organization based in Austin. They are–they, you know, they give fundings and grants to the community-based organizations, filmmakers, and things like that. So, these are the people that we are still working with. Now, we are working with the Plant It Forward. We, you know, we are assisting them, to work with our community, especially in farming area.

00:56:50.760 - 00:59:56.770

[video cuts out] Religious group, different ethnic group, and also with the local NGOs that base here. So we–we are—and also I forgot to mention about with the legal teams, like the law—sorry, the lawyers, the attorney office. So I've been, in collaboration with some of them, to help the—to help the families with the issues that they cover. So, yes. So our network and connections are growing and we would like to learn more and work more. So I—the YMCA yesterday reached out to us for another proposal they have that they want to work with us. So I'm going to have a meeting with them next week. We–we work with Interfaith, you know, we–we go there and to help them interpret sometimes and things like that. But we need to grow and we will be growing. And then I'll just move to some questions about your current family and personal life. Could you share how you met your husband? I met my husband in–in 2014, when I was working as an interpreter with IRC, the International Rescue Committee, the organization that resettled refugees to US. And he saw me on the news, because I was the first person in the community that speak about Rohingya in the world. So I was giving an interview to BBC. So there was a paper come out, there's a—the video came out. So he saw me there, because he is one of the person that left his job and start advocating for the community. Because the world is not hearing the real story from real people. So he chose to take the job and start writing. So he knew about me, but I didn't know about him. And, when I met him in the office, that's how, you know, I–I felt that he is someone that can guide me. He–he saw things in me that I don't see. So he see me in a very—I see myself in a small, contributor for the community, but he see me in a larger scale. So I felt that, yeah. So that's how the connection built, and I–I fall in love. And I told my parents that I want to get married, which is very, very rare in the community. We don't say, especially in my time, women or men never say that "I want to marry this guy, or this person."

00:59:57.160 - 01:01:44.760

So I choose–to choose that opportunity—take that opportunity and–and speak. My mom took six months to say yes. But yeah, got married. We were married in Malaysia for four years before we came to United States. I decided not to have kids in–in Malaysia because, again, if–if my children are born, they will be treated as a refugee like me. They will be not accepted. They will be discriminated. So I felt that it is not—I don't want to give life to another refugee. The–the struggles are really, really, really hard. It's not easy. So I choose to not give, you know, have children. Then, coming to United States a week later, God bless me. Now I have two kids. I have two daughters. So yeah. That's really, really lovely. And how close are you with your–your parents and your family in the present? We are very good. We–we–we are the only, like, my parents are very close to us. We are very close to them. And I am just about ten minutes away from them. I used to live with them, until I move to my place. So we are very, we–we share everything with each other. Sometimes—not sometimes. At least a week, once a week or twice a week. We cook and we share [laughs] things with each other. We are very close and very, very protected under each other. So, yeah bless. And what sort of values and principles are you instilling in your kids as you're raising them?

01:01:47.650 - 01:03:56.050

Raising the kids in United States are hard [laughs]. It's not the way I grow up. I'm very, very scared of, you know—them—raising them. But I think the most important thing is that I want my kids to know is their root, where they come from, where their parents come from. Rohingya be facing genocide because of our ethnicity. And I don't want my children to not know their ethnicity and their root. So I really emphasize that. My elder daughter speak Rohingya with us. So I'm very, very proud of that. And I–I want to teach them that. You know they are no difference. They are as equal as others, and they just have to work hard for themselves to improve themselves, for themselves, not for others. And–and, they can be whoever, whatever they want, as long as they, hold in the principle, their root, and their religion. And–and I want my daughters to give back to the community. So when I'm no longer alive, I want what I have built to be continued. And I want my–I want to put that responsibility to my children, so that they carry it, and—because the work that we started is not going to—we won't get the result 100% in ten years, in 20 years. We need to work harder each day, because building a community, building the nation is not an easy work, and it's not a work that can be done within five years, ten years. It has to be work that we've done generation to generation. And I would like my children also contribute in that efforts. Wonderful. And then we've spoken on this a lot, but just for the record of the archive, how do you identify yourself ethnically?

01:03:57.320 - 01:05:43.760

I am Rohingya, from Asia, and soon I will be Rohingya American [laughs]. And then what in your entire life do you feel most proud of? I think one things that I'm very proud of myself is that I am Rohingya. I was born as Rohingya, and I am proud of whatever I have go through because it made me who I am today. If I did not go through the worst of the worst in my life when I was young, I don't think so today I will be sitting here and speaking to you. I don't think so I will be strong enough to stand as a woman, as a mother, as a wife in front of the world and say that I'm worth it, and I–I am who I am. I'm not ashamed of—that I'm not educated enough. I'm not ashamed of being refugee. I'm not ashamed of being a victim. I am proud of who I am. And I think all these thing is—it's a blessing from God to make you strong and to–to make you see your part more clearly and to be in a right part. It's very easy for us to get influenced something wrong very quickly. But to do something right, it's takes a lot of guidance and a lot of–a lot of efforts. And whatever I have gone through, it's not nice. And I wish nobody get that. I pray and work hard so that no one–no other child go through the pain that I go through. But I again use my weakness as a strength and, you know, make things best out of it.

01:05:44.490 - 01:07:30.870

I'm proud of who I am. I am proud. I'm a proud mother [laughs], and I am proud to be here. I am proud of what I've achieved for my community. I am very proud that I can stand as a strong voice, especially being a woman in my community. And–and I'm proud that I could change people's lives. I am proud. I'm very proud. I'm–I am–I'm not arrogant. I don't like arrogance. But I'm very, very proud. And I am proud that I can recognize my good efforts and, you know, be proud of it. So, I think people don't make you realize how good you are, or people don't give you credit for things that you do. And sometimes in this really hard work, you know, this kind of work, it's really demotivate you. But it's important that you recognize your efforts. You recognize the good things that you do, and you be proud of that and own it. And that will motivate you to go forward. So I always make sure that I recognize all the small things or big things that I do, and be proud of it so that it's give me a purpose, you know, to move forward and do better, each day. So I'm proud to be who I am. I'm very complicated. I talk a lot, but I'm proud to be who I am [laughs]. Absolutely. And then when and where do you feel most at home? Can you repeat?

01:07:32.490 - 01:09:57.570

When and where do you feel most at home? When and where you—I feel most at home. When I'm with my parents, and I'm here with my family, my children. So I feel I am home. But I also want to go back where I was born. I really, really, really want to go back and see and feel the–the air again where I was born. Many people say it not possible. The government would not allow me to go back. But deep inside me, say that one day I will be able to go back. At least before I die. So, yeah. For now, this is where I belong. This is my home. And my families are my home. That's really beautiful, thank you for that. What are your hopes for the future of Rohingya communities in the US and around the world? I really wish and hope that our issues' been—really been heard, and something concrete come out of it. The people who are stuck in the camp can go back to their land, to their home. The people who are stuck in countries like Malaysia, in Bangladesh, in India, Indonesia, that willing to get resettled and build their life, get an opportunity. So like me, who had an opportunity to build myself and my family, my identity, get all the protection, all the freedom that I deserve. They deserve the same. So I wish and hope that they will, you know, receive that. I–I–I pray and hope that the genocide in Myanmar and–and my people been recognized as a citizen of Burma again. And I—at the same time, I would like to see the strong involvement of Rohingya women in all the issues in a table–table discussions, in a political level, in a grassroot level, and in every level that a woman leadership should be involved and–and respected at the same time.

01:09:57.570 - 01:11:29.360

And my last question that I have for you is if your children were to watch this interview in the future, do you have a message that you would want to give them? I don't know what they're going to say. But I want them to always recognize themselves as Rohingya. Be proud of them, as, you know, they–their parents, both parents are Rohingya, and they are Rohingya. And I want them to advocate for the people. And recognize them–recognizing themselves as Rohingya is also really a big advocacy for the community. And I would like them to be there, like their mother and father, for the community. So yeah, I hope one day when they see me speaking—this is the first time I'm saying something for my children, so I–I really want them to recognize themselves as Rohingya and be proud of it. Wonderful. Yeah, that's all that I have. Is there anything that you would like to add that we haven't covered yet? No, I think I have said so many things, say things that you didn't even ask me [laughs] and elaborate so much. So thank you so much, so much for having me. And I really hope this will give a hope, a light to my community and to the cause. Thank you for having me.

01:11:30.110 - 01:11:31.430

Thank you so, so much.