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Today is May 14th, 2024. My name is Cecelia Nguyen and I'm here today with Sehar Javed on behalf of the Hous-Houston Asian American Archive at Rice University. So just to start, could you please state your full name and where and when you were born?

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Sure. My name is Sehar Javed and I was born in Lahore, Pakistan, and January 7th, 1971. Great. And then, I wanted to kind of get, like, a sense of your early life first.

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Can you tell us about the household and the neighborhood that you grew up in? Sure. So my-my early life is actually very interesting because I grew up in about 14 different countries. And I was born in Lahore, Pakistan, and we

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were—I was actually three years old when I moved out of Lahore. But the city where I—where I spent my first three years was—it's-it's called Lahore. And then do you—Where did you, I guess, like,

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where did you move following that? Oh, gosh. Okay. So, following that, I moved—so my dad had this opportunity. He-he's with the oil and gas industry.

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This is many, many, many moons ago-ago, of course. So we moved to Algiers, Algeria. After Algeria, we were in—I think we went to France and then we went to Iran.

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So I did my kindergarten in Tehran, Iran. And from then on we moved to Abu Dhabi in the Middle East, Dubai—No, wait. We moved to Abu Dhabi first, I think.

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Then we moved to Iran, and then we moved to Indonesia. And I did my first and second grade after Indonesia, I think we moved to Thailand. I did my third grade there and my fourth through

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fifth and sixth was done in Manila in the Philippines. And then we moved to Cairo, from Cairo, we moved to-to Holland, to the Netherlands, rather, and between the Netherlands—After the Netherlands,

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we moved to Scotland, moved back to the Netherlands. I moved to Cleveland, Ohio to finish off my senior year in-in-in Ohio. And I—and I stayed with my aunt that year. So—so lots of—lots of movement,

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but good movement. It taught me a lot. Yeah. Listening to that, I was like, oh my gosh, wow. It's just—the list just keeps on going. Yeah, yeah. No, we-we, I, you know, we had—we had such a generous

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upbringing. You know, when we—when we moved, we used to go back every summer to Pakistan. And when we went back to Pakistan to visit my grandparents, we would—my dad would take us to different countries to go and visit as well.

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So it's just been an enormous, very fruitful upbringing. Yeah. So my next question was going to be about like—even though you moved very frequently, do you still have memories of Pakistan despite moving around throughout your entire childhood?

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I do actually. So like-like I said, like, we-we used to go back to Pakistan every summer, and when I was a child, we used to spend the entire, like, three months there, and it was just a phenomenal—I mean, it used to be a phenomenal summer break—you know,

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we'd-we'd-we'd stay at my paternal grandmother's house, and she had this ginormous house where, like, all the relatives, whenever we'd get back home to Pakistan, everyone would come and visit all our cousins,

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aunts, uncles. And I mean, we—my grandmother had two dining tables in her house, and they would be full, you know, we'd bring up more chairs on those dining tables. And, I mean, it was—it was a summer full of at that time when I was

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growing up, you know, walking to the markets, playing outside. It used to be hot, but we never really used to feel the heat at that time. But it was all about cousins and family and getting together and, you know, having mango parties and having

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those teas and having, you know, elaborate dinners and it was just a great, great upbringing. And then, of course, visiting Pakistan on its own, you know, whether it was Lahore city, learning about it growing up.

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So, yeah, it was-it-I- I've very, very fond memories. I don't think my—like, my children growing up—raising my children today, they've experienced Pakistan like how I've experienced it. Mm. Yeah, that sounds so beautiful. It sounds like you were still able to really experience

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your culture to its fullest. Honestly, you're so right. If I had not, I think, moved back or rather gone and visited the country every summer, I wouldn't—I wouldn't have known anything

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about the culture or even the religion because it was my paternal grandmother, really, who instilled religion in us as well. So it was—it was just a phenomenal upbringing. Did you grow up or—I think you mentioned practicing Islam—did you grow up practicing

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Islam? And— So-so somewhat kind of. You know, my dad was really not into religion as much. So we didn't really grow up with a whole lot of

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religion. I mean, we'd have, you know, our special, likethey're called Eids. We had two Eids and most of the time we'd be at school and or, you know, he'd be working, or my mom would be out,

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but when we'd go back to Pakistan—So both the Eids are dependent on the lunar calendar and if they fell in the summers, if they came, then, yes, then we celebrated Eid. We had a great time, you know, feasting.

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It was all about food and family. But yeah, no, I did not actually grow up with a whole lot of religion until I went back home, you know, to, you know, when I visited my grandparents in the summers and we would—she taught me how to

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pray. She taught me my prayers. So she was very religious. So that was—that was really good. And then, really, honestly, I self-taught my religion to myself as an

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adult. I finished the Quran when I was pregnant with my first child. That was way back in 1996. You know, I read it myself, followed the transliteration and read it to myself, explained it to myself.

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And of course, being in Houston has been just amazing because I've learned—I've picked up so much of my religion. The meaning of it, the learnings from the city, actually.

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I think that's like so inspirational that you were able to, like, reconnect in that way. Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely. Yeah. And it sounds like you were very close to your family in Pakistan with

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all the summers that you were able to experience there. Are there any significant stories that were passed from generation to generation, relating to your family's experiences or in particular, your family's experiences during the Partition?

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So that's a great question. You know, there are so many stories. Of course, I've forgotten some of them. Most of them probably.

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But no, we did, you know, our grandparents did—did share some stories specifically about the Partition. You know, they used to talk about it because obviously it happened, you know, in their era when they were adults.

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Even my parents. But—but you know, but-but not—I mean, it was—it was a normal, you know, whatever history has said when the Partition happened and the movement

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happened. My family was from Lahore. Some of them were India and, you know, and everybody, you know, moved over. My maternal grandfather actually lost all of his businesses because he used to reside in India.

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He had his businesses. He was a business man. And when he moved, he lost majority of his—of his—of his work when he—when he moved over.

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But, you know, but they were, you know, they were well settled in Lahore and, you know, the family all came together and most of my family is in Lahore, there's some in Karachi, there's some in Islamabad, but the majority of them, you know,

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resided in Lahore. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. I also wanted to go back to the point of you talk—I think you mentioned moving to like, a lot of different schools throughout your childhood.

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How, I guess, has moving around that frequently impacted your childhood and your experience growing up? You know, the moving around, I tell you, it's—it was such a wonderful experience.

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You know, when you're a child, it's very tough, right? Every two years or year or—or even within six months, nine months, you know, my dad would pack up and we'd move because, you know, he'd get promoted or for business reasons,

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whatever. It was very tough being the new person, on the block all the time. But I think in, you know, it was a blessing in disguise as well because it helped us mature. It helped us gain insight

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into different cultures, different people. And then as we grew up and we, you know, we matured a little bit more, you know, one realizes, okay, you're not the only one because we were always with an international community. Right? So I went to all the American schools

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or the international schools met so many different people. I don't know, countless. I can't even count, countless number of people, you know, from kindergarten through my high school days,

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from different parts of the world from, you know, just different regions, from different platforms, from different socioeconomics. You know, so—so it was—it taught a lot of empathy,

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actually. I—and-and having learned empathy, being able to, be empathetic and sympathetic to different cultures, different religions, I actually use that in my field of work,

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which is HR, and it helps me understand more, you know, understand people, the way they work, the way they tick, the way, you know, where they're coming from, how they think. So—so, yeah, it was—it was just amazing.

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I mean, you know, learning different languages, learning different cultures, being part of that larger community. And of course, living in a bubble, but still, we learned so much.

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It was amazing. Did you ever feel any sort of, like, disconnect with your own identity and your own culture, despite having, like those summers in Pakistan? Did you ever feel like a disconnect going from—to so many different places and

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experiencing so many cultures? We did actually. I felt very disconnected. You know, having said that, you know, I—we used to go back home every—to Pakistan every summer.

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I actually felt very disconnected because-because we were at that time, you know, in the 70s, 80s, 90s, there weren't very many people abroad. And not very many people lived the way that we did. And living in that bubble

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again, when you think about culture, when you think about religion, ideologies or just, you know, socioeconomic platform, it was—it was difficult, like when we used to go back to Pakistan. So although my parents taught us Urdu, which is,

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you know, the national language in Pakistan, we would always be made fun of, you know, which is normal. You hear about all those stories when kids go back, you know, to their—to their parents, mother-motherland. You, you know, you get made fun of the language

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or the, you know, we didn't know the religion or, you know, we didn't know, like when big weddings are weddings are so big. When weddings would happen, we didn't know the songs or we didn't know how to dance, you know, traditionally.

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So we did feel that disconnect. But then, having said that, now, as a mature woman, when I look back, I go, you know what? Maybe at that time we felt disconnected.

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But really now I am so connected when people talk to me. It's very surprising when they always mention to me they're like, you know, you don't—you don't—you don't look like or sound like—like you didn't grow up in Pakistan. You sound and you look like—like you did grow up in Pakistan.

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So something obviously clicked and something stayed. But there was a disconnect. I mean, whether we were in Pakistan or whether we were in the West, you know. We grew up with a lot of, it—on an international

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platform. And the disconnect was there too. When we were growing up. Right. We had these, we were—we were—we were raised in a very protective environment. Right. Couldn't date, couldn't do this, couldn't do that.

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Because our culture, our religion didn't allow it, so we weren't Western. And then we weren't Eastern. We were like right in the middle. Which didn't help with the disconnect.

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But—but, you know—but at the end of the day, I think there were a lot of lessons learned. Yeah, I'm still like processing all those countries you lived in. Like, wow. Like half of those are—

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Wait till you hear the ones I've visited—Okay? I know, I was like, wow, that's already, like, my whole travel bucket list. I kind of wanted to move into more of a conversation, of, when

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you moved to the US and what prompted you to do so? Sure. Well, when I initially moved to the US, I came for my senior year in high school, and the reason why I wanted to come here was I wanted to become a fashion designer.

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It was—yes, I was very, very creative and I loved designing, you know, clothes. You know, the typical girl wants to get into fashion and was very artistic, very creative, loved drawing, loved designing all my life,

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throughout my life. However, my dad said, "Okay, fine, you can go to the US. You know, spend one year there and—and, you know, see how you like it." Of course I loved it, but I was so homesick because I was

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so close to my family, my parents and my siblings. And I got all these scholarships, wonderful scholarships to go to fashion school, some of the really nice ones. And, I went back home after my senior year and

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my father was like, "You know what? You should go into business. Forget about fashion school." I was like, "What?" Like, no, no, no, I went to the US to, you know,

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to learn, you know, how to live in the US, what the US was all about and that's another story. But, you know, yeah, I went back and then I stayed. We were in Holland and I stayed and I went to satellite school from there,

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changed my major and went into business. But I know your question was all about the US. So that was my first, I guess my first entry into the US. And then, after, I think a couple of years,

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I think I was 18 when I went back and I came back when I was 22 because I got married and my husband was here—rather my fiance at that time—he was in the US. He was in—he was in—Georgia and

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he was finishing up his undergrad. We ended up getting married. He was—he started working here, and—and then I came. And when I came here, I went to—I landed in a small town called

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Fremont, Ohio. It was very, very small. Very small, like, very, very small coming-coming from Europe all the way to the US and to this small town. It was really tough. It was really tough.

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Yeah. We—we were in a small apartment, and I had never seen a Kmart. I don't even know if you know what a Kmart is. There was a Kmart, and I—I remember I told my husband,

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I'm like, well, I need to get some groceries. I want to, you know, shop a little bit. He's like, oh, yeah, just walk down, you know, across the railroad and you'll get to a Kmart. And, it was like your Target and that was my introduction to really the US, but [CN:

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Ok.] it was nice. And after that, you know, after Fremont, Ohio, my husband actually applied for graduate school, and we ended up in California. He went to Stanford, got his double master' and at that point,

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I still hadn't finished my undergrad. So I was on a student visa when I came here. So I couldn't even fulfill that requirement for myself.

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When I got married, I had to wait a little bit. Of course, finances played a huge role in that, too. But, you know, but we were—we went to California, then we went to Chicago, and from Chicago we moved to Houston.

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So it's—it's been a long ride. It's been, I think about 32 years or something like that. Yeah. The, like, interview is supposed to be like chronological according to your life,

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but it's just like, it's like your life is good to in going in so many directions. I'm like, oh my gosh, I have to repivot. Yes. I'm so sorry. I've had a really crazy life. It's been like, boom, boom.

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No, this is what the interview is for though. The purpose. Yeah, yeah. So I guess like jumping back a little bit since like, a lot happened before you came back to the US again.

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Yeah. What college did you attend or like the satellite school? Mhm. So I attended I-I attended Webster University in Leiden in—in the Netherlands. It was a satellite school.

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Both my sister and I actually attended that. I started in—Oh my gosh, I don't even remember my major because I changed my major so many times. It was business, psychology, and then I

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also—to kind of accelerate my studies and to try, you know, trying to finish up my degree a little bit quicker, which I didn't, we also went to University of Maryland. So University of Maryland was also a satellite school,

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but on the American base in Soesterberg in Holland, so we used to drive or take a train. So take courses at Webster University and then go to University of Maryland in Soesterberg and—and take courses there too,

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but it was like an hours away. But, you know, you had to do what you had to do. So. Yeah. So I did that, and then I got married, and then I moved here and then went to, I don't know,

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a plethora of schools. As my husband moved around in the US. I kept, you know, kept on studying, kept on transferring.

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Could you walk us through like those schools that you also attended? Sure. Oh, my gosh, if I can remember. So let me see. So I started off with Webster University and University of Maryland in—in The Hague and in the Netherlands, rather.

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And then when I got married, moved here, we—when we moved to California, I went to Menlo College for a little bit. I think a semester or two.

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I went to De Anza College, which was a community college, and then we moved again to Chicago. And then I transferred to—gosh, William Rainey Harper.

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Again, another school and to Roosevelt University. Ended up graduating from Roosevelt University but it took me 17 years, by the way, to get my undergrad. Because we kept moving, and then I had kids in between,

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and my life was just, going in circles. Power to you for getting through it. Oh, I tell you, I've always been an overachiever and I've been very adamant. Education plays a really big role in my life and I

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think going through all those upheavals of trying to get my degree just made me more intense and more stronger and more adamant. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. So what did you end up studying in your undergrad?

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I guess, like, progression of how you got there? Sure. So—so I—I—so I started off with psychology and business, but really switched over to HR at that time. When I switched over to HR, I don't even know what HR was.

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I was just, you know, my-my-my advisor at Roosevelt University introduced me to that. She's like, you know what? You know, a little bit of management, you know, a little bit of psychology.

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This is the way you work and this is the way you tick. You should really try to concentrate on HR. And I did that then. So I graduated with a general studies degree, but with a concentration in human resources and management and

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psychology. And then, you know, like I said, that took me about 17 years to complete, just because all the credits kept transferring. And then, you know, every time you, you'd apply, some of those credits, you'd lose.

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So you'd have to restart all over again and some of those general study courses and your, you know, main courses, but, yeah. No, it took—it took me 17 years to complete my undergrad. And then, of course, in 2017, I knew I had to do my master's.

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I was in my 40s, and I took about a year and a half, did my master's from University of Houston in human resource development. And there's been no looking back after that. It's been great.

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What made you want to pursue a master's degree? Just to move up in my career. Honestly, my career, you know, it started off—it started off a little bit late.

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And I realized HR is a really tough field to get into, and to be in. They're very tight circle. And I thought, you know, what is the best way to

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get more honed in into this field and to get my network, and to rather build my network. I decided I needed a master's, and it was really just for career growth and progression and of course, learnings, because things had changed so

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much. I mean, I did—I did my undergrad in 2007 and then 2017, about ten years later, I applied for my master's, got into that program. And it was—it was such a wonderful—wonderful experience.

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Because I went from full cycle HR like HR management to HR development. And there was no looking back after that. I just love what I do now. And I think you, like, are saying a lot, like,

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that you—there's like no looking back in terms of HR, but it sounds like you explored a lot before getting to that point. So when you—I guess, at what point did you know that you wanted to do HR throughout your education?

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Yeah. So, you know, when I moved to Houston, actually, I'll take you back to that. I started working for Open Houston, which is—which is a—it's an entrepreneurial organization focused on entrepreneurship,

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mentoring, networking and, what I realized was when I moved here and I started working, I was doing organizational development. Right, but I didn't know I was doing OD—it's called OD, OD work—till I started my master's and I realized,

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oh, wow, I've been doing OD work. And I loved the management of people, of developing people, developing things, problem solving, employee engagement, writing trainings. I enjoyed that.

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And I found that there was a degree at UH called Human Resource Development, and that's how I got into that program. And, because I had been doing OD work most of my, you know, working career experience life, I

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guess. Yeah. So that's how I really got into it. And I had—and I had been—and I had been exploring—you know, I had—when I first began my career, I was a teacher's assistant. So again, that was developing people, right?

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Helping people, you know, teaching, you know, developing curriculums. And, I think in between, I kind of—I pivoted, actually, I went back into interior design, came back.

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So I was—I was just exploring because I had that opportunity to explore. Again, this was much later on in my, you know, in my late 20s, early 30s, when I was exploring all of this different career paths.

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But everything kept coming back to OD work, to organizational development, to learning and development, to training and development, to writing curriculums, to problem solving, to helping people, to mentoring, to coaching, to, you know, talking people out of

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things, right, guiding them. So that's how I ended up in HR. So—and it's—and it's just worked this-this degree helped me kind of solidify what I do for a living now is learning and development,

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is coaching, is mentoring, is, you know, career progression help. So. And just to go back really quickly to your experience with, um, immigrating and coming to the US.

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I'm sorry. Okay, sorry. Yeah. Just so going back to your experience with coming to the US, were there any challenges that you faced when adjusting to life? Particularly—you've lived in a lot of different countries,

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but, particularly when you started, like, liv—or developing your life in the US and being more settled here and the challenges that you faced? Yeah. You know, challenges in the sense were,

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you know, I mean, since we had immigrated right here, so my husband was on a student visa, I was on a dependent visa. Right. I couldn't do much, I couldn't work, I couldn't go to full time school. I could go to only part time school or take one course a semester.

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And I—and I ended up, you know, meeting a lot of very interesting people. I do have to share this one incident. So, when I was—let me take a little bit back when I was growing up and when I was, you know, in my international schools.

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American schools had a lot of American, you know, white American, different American, you know, black and African American friends or international friends. I always talked to them about I'm like, "Oh, I can't wait to go to the US." Right.

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Can't wait to go and study because it was the—it was the dream, right? Going—being on your own and living in a dorm and doing this, doing that. Of course I never got that opportunity, but my American American friends would always say to me, she's like, you're never going to

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like the US. You just won't you. You've always grown up and you've been in an international environment. It's very different being in the US as an American. And I'd be like, yeah, what do they know?

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Whatever. You know, they're just saying that they just don't want me to go to the US. Anyhow. But I did get married and I did move here and that—and they were right, actually. And I discovered that actually during my senior year, when I came here to do my senior

00:28:46.840 - 00:29:05.800

year, I went from private schools to a huge public high school with people from all walks of life. Right. There was—I was very protected when I was growing up in Europe. Right. I was living in a bubble with the best of the best,

00:29:05.800 - 00:29:22.900

right, with all the amenities and life and this and that. And, when I moved to Ohio, to Cleveland, Ohio, and I was staying with my aunt and I went from maybe a 150 school, you know, person school to

00:29:22.900 - 00:29:40.190

2000 people. And I remember my first day in high school. And this is how, you know, my mindset started changing. I was in the hallway and I was going to my first class and the door opened and—and this is me by being naive and I'm not

00:29:40.190 - 00:29:52.360

judging anyone. No. Nothing. Right. In walked, a very young looking girl, and she was full term pregnant. And I looked and I said, "Oh my God," I'm like, "Okay." And then I was walking.

00:29:52.360 - 00:30:04.630

I said, okay, that was a shock for me because I had never seen that. Right. And then I walked towards my—as I was walking towards my classroom, I saw smoke coming out of the bathroom. I'm like, oh my gosh, what's going in there? So I, you know, what's

00:30:04.630 - 00:30:17.460

going on in there? So I peeked in and people were smoking. I'm like, okay. I'm like, okay, I didn't know this was—so, you know, so my—my—I think my protectiveness

00:30:17.460 - 00:30:30.330

was—I don't want to say shattered, but I really woke up like, this is—this is actually life. Things like this happen, and people do these things, and-and it's okay. And it's very different.

00:30:30.570 - 00:30:40.080

So it was a huge wake up call, to me. Right. Just meeting different people. People were not friendly. They were not friendly at all.

00:30:40.260 - 00:30:56.850

My—I was very lucky, my cousin went to the same school, so I—I was a senior and she was a sophomore, and I actually used to go sit on the sophomore table because I didn't have anyone to sit with. But, you know, but it was—but it was—but it was a—it was a

00:30:56.850 - 00:31:13.740

very nice experience. And then coming forward, when I was married and we moved to Ohio again to Fremont, Ohio, my, you know, I experienced my first racism. I had never experienced that before.

00:31:13.770 - 00:31:30.750

We were driving from Fremont, I think we went through Toledo to Cleveland to see my aunt, and we stopped off in Toledo for lunch, and we walked into our restaurant and—and I just got this feeling, and I said to my husband,

00:31:30.750 - 00:31:39.270

I'm like, I don't think we should be here. And he's like, no, no, no, come in, come in, come in. No, no, no problem. And, he opened up the door and we walked—and as we were walking in,

00:31:39.270 - 00:31:51.000

all knives and forks stopped. You could—it was a room full of white people. All knives and forks stopped. And there was a pause and we went and we sat down

00:31:51.600 - 00:32:04.970

and, you know, we-we ordered water. And then I noticed all these people looking at us. And I looked up to my husband and I said, I think we need to leave. I feel very uncomfortable.

00:32:04.970 - 00:32:18.380

So we got up and we left. So, you know, so those were my early on experiences of being in the US. Some of them, but you know, I mean it didn't affect me. It was just an experience and maybe an unpleasant experience,

00:32:18.380 - 00:32:35.240

but you know, but—but it didn't—it didn't—what's the word? It didn't—it didn't deter me or it didn't, you know, tell me. "Oh, well, this is how everyone is over here." No. Definitely not. I mean, we moved to California and oh,

00:32:35.240 - 00:32:45.770

my gosh, it was lovely. People were so different. There was more diversity there and, you felt like you were accepted more. Then we moved to Chicago, even more so,

00:32:45.770 - 00:32:58.010

and Houston. Oh my gosh, Houston just takes the takes the cake. I mean, I love the city. It is so diverse. It is so welcoming. I have never experienced this much love, even from my

00:32:58.010 - 00:33:09.620

neighbors until I moved to Houston. So yeah, I hope I answered your question. I know I went on and on. No, that was perfect. You hit like three more questions in that.

00:33:10.340 - 00:33:18.950

Oh, gosh. Okay. Yeah. Houston's truly such a melting pot. I've, like, grown up here my whole life, so. Were you born here?

00:33:19.730 - 00:33:34.700

Yeah, I was born here, but my parents are immigrants from Vietnam. So, like, just another testament to, like, so many different types of people. Right? Love it. Love the city. Yeah. I think, you-you touched a little bit about an instance of

00:33:34.700 - 00:33:49.280

discrimination that you face in the US. But on the flip side, have you able— ever been able to find a solid Pakistani community arriving in the various places that you lived in the US? Yeah. All the various states that you lived in.

00:33:49.280 - 00:34:03.350

Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. So, so first off, like in Cleveland, Ohio, would you believe there's a huge Pakistani community. And my aunt and uncle have been living in Cleveland, I think for the last, I don't know, 40, 50 something

00:34:03.350 - 00:34:19.760

years, and they have an amazing Pakistani community. They, you know, they've got the whole Pakistani group or alliance or whatever it's called, but it's—it's a—it's a nice group, you know, of course, all the aunts and uncles are really, really super old now. But when I

00:34:19.760 - 00:34:34.010

was there 30 something years ago, they were young and hip and, no, it's a great community—a community, you know, that you could, that you can rely on and of course, is-is there you know, they do all—all the events,

00:34:34.010 - 00:34:45.850

all the religious, cultural events all together. So I got introduced to that in Cleveland and it was so nice because I didn't grow up like that. I grew up in a very international community.

00:34:45.850 - 00:34:59.610

So I never really, grew up with that Pakistani diaspora, right, that community. We went to—in California, I came across some, but then again, we were, you know, we were students,

00:34:59.610 - 00:35:14.240

more in student life versus trying to find that Pakistani community. There—they are there and they were there but we really didn't intermingle with them. And then when we moved to Chicago, of course, we found our Pakistani community again and it was

00:35:14.240 - 00:35:29.870

very—it was very exciting for me because I had not grown up like that, you know, without the religion, without so much of that culture, you know, always being, you know, celebrating all the Eids and the holidays, the Muslim holidays, you know, the cultural events.

00:35:29.870 - 00:35:38.720

I had never grown up with that. And, so when we moved to Chicago, of course, I had my children, both my daughters there. It was—it was just so nice.

00:35:38.720 - 00:35:52.280

I mean, it was nice to find an Islamic school where I could actually have them go somewhere to learn Arabic, how to read the Quran. I mean, I taught them, you know, their prayers, and I taught them their duas and their, you know, from the prayer book myself.

00:35:52.280 - 00:36:04.880

But I had to self-teach myself first to teach them. So we saw—we found a really great community there. But I think from everywhere where I've lived, the community in Houston just takes the cake.

00:36:05.210 - 00:36:20.630

Honestly. Good families, great community, so much diversity. And Houston just is a, you know, it's a—it's a giving community. They're so welcoming. The larger community and the community, the smaller,

00:36:20.630 - 00:36:37.010

you know, the smaller Pakistani community itself. I call it small, but it's not small. I mean, it's huge. But—but, yeah, no, we've always found the community everywhere, wherever we've gone. And it's really—it's been a blessing because when you're away from family,

00:36:37.730 - 00:36:52.230

that community turns into your family. You know, those are the people who you spend your weekends with, so. Yeah. And kind of along the vein of that, like, talking about those Pakistani communities coming to the US,

00:36:52.230 - 00:37:07.920

did you ever, kind of feel that you consider yourself to be more of a part of a greater South Asian community, or did you like—was it like specifically Pakistani? No. I think greater South Asian community, honestly.

00:37:07.920 - 00:37:21.060

And that has to do with the way I was brought up. I—yes, it's great to have that Pakistani community as a platform also because, you know, I wanted to teach my children, you know, whatever I want, whatever I needed to teach them, right? The

00:37:21.060 - 00:37:30.120

culture or the religion, whatever. But no, we are part of a larger community. And I just love that about Houston. I mean, it is so diverse.

00:37:30.120 - 00:37:42.720

You feel at home. I mean, I don't miss Pakistan. I don't go to back home to Pakistan as often because I just love it here. It just feels like home. It's great. You know, and there's so many—I mean,

00:37:42.720 - 00:37:53.250

the city is great. There's so many cultural cultures here. Right? It's a melting pot. And there's so much that happens in the city. It's—it's just, I mean, it's—it's great.

00:37:53.250 - 00:38:08.650

I wouldn't—I would not want to move away from Houston unless I moved abroad. I'm here to stay. I keep telling that to my husband. I'm like, we're not moving. It's so great that Houston, like, you found Houston and like that

00:38:08.650 - 00:38:19.870

community in it as well. Yeah, yeah. How in like particular with immigrating to the US as well. How has that experience been different than the many other times that you've moved in

00:38:19.870 - 00:38:30.140

your life? So say that again. Sorry. How has your experience immigrating to the US been different from the other times that you've moved throughout your life?

00:38:31.100 - 00:38:44.810

Stability, for one. I, you know, I mean, growing up for the first, I want to say 21 years of my life, I mean, I really didn't have any stability, right, as far as putting in roots.

00:38:44.810 - 00:38:59.180

So when we moved here after I got married, of course, you know, we moved from Ohio to California and then to Chicago. Chicago. We were there for about 13 years and I thought, "Wow, this is the longest I've ever stayed in a place," and it was so

00:38:59.180 - 00:39:14.120

nice because I actually got to make those best friends, right? My children actually got to make those best friends and friends—who are—we-we are still in touch with. I've never had that in my life. And then, of course, moving to Houston.

00:39:14.120 - 00:39:26.840

Same thing. I've lived in my house for 17 years now, and I'm like, wow, you know, we're actually putting in roots. You know, I-I-I know every inch of my house. I know every inch of the city.

00:39:26.840 - 00:39:37.370

I can, you know, walk with my eyes closed. I know where I'm going. So, so very different. It's—you-you can't compare.

00:39:37.580 - 00:39:54.590

I guess, you know, growing up abroad versus growing up here. But I think for me, the integral part is just the stability. It is so nice to be in one place for—to see my children have the same best friends. You know, growing these last

00:39:54.590 - 00:40:06.530

17 years we've been in Houston, so it's—yeah, it's nice. It's nice knowing the mail—mail person. Right. It's nice knowing your, you know, when you take your car for service, it's nice knowing the same person.

00:40:06.890 - 00:40:20.400

It's nice knowing your neighbors. So, yeah. Definitely stability. That's so great that you were able to have, like, those two very different parts of your life and experience all of that.

00:40:21.060 - 00:40:31.980

Yeah, yeah. And in-in each-each is great. Each—you know, that was great when I was raising—when I was growing up, rather when I was being raised internationally and this has just been a phenomenal experience.

00:40:32.070 - 00:40:48.000

Now we're here in one place, but we get to travel more, right, also. So. And then I kind of want to tie into—because you talked about earlier how moving to all these different places has been able to really help you

00:40:48.000 - 00:41:03.870

have empathy when it comes to your job in HR. I guess as like an immigrant and with your experiences, in that sense, do you feel that you can more easily relate to the needs or concerns of employees that have an immigrant background?

00:41:03.870 - 00:41:18.540

And could you share any experiences that you have working with employees that come from other countries and—or immigrants? Yeah, definitely. No, yeah, definitely. You know, I-I love the career path I've chosen.

00:41:18.540 - 00:41:32.910

You know, HR is a very, very versatile platform for a career. You know, you can go—you can be the people's person. You can be the OD person, the organizational person,

00:41:32.910 - 00:41:48.740

the development person. And, again, you know, having grown up abroad, you know, you-you-you gain certain qualities I want to say, you know, like empathy, being sympathetic,

00:41:48.740 - 00:42:04.910

having the ability to understand people, different cultures, different religions, different ways of people working has really played an—it's-it's helped me. It's played an integral part in my HR.

00:42:05.210 - 00:42:21.020

But not just in HR, in just general whatever I've done, it's, you know, the empathy that I bring to the table helps me help people. Really, you know, it,

00:42:23.570 - 00:42:36.710

I think it just invites people. I'm that person where people come to and they dump all their problems on. Right. So I'm like the psychologist, the HR psychologist. But no, it's helped me understand people.

00:42:36.710 - 00:42:52.550

So an example would be, you know, since I do a little bit of recruiting also as a consultant, these days, it just—it—I—so I do a lot of career development. I'm a career coach as well.

00:42:52.700 - 00:43:08.960

It helps me with international students. It helps me with, you know, I volunteer my time in different organizations, whether it's UH, whether it's Shifa Healthcare, whether it's ATD, whatever

00:43:08.960 - 00:43:26.980

it is, it just, it-it helps me to come down to people's level. Right. And it helps me invite people, for them to share their problems, issues, you know, professional roadblocks with me.

00:43:26.980 - 00:43:38.750

It's—yeah, I think it's-it's just, you know, it's just on the whole, it's just helped me. I mean, I just bring that empathy tool with me, and—and then I—it's-it's easy to work with people because you understand people.

00:43:41.050 - 00:43:53.020

I hope I answered your question. Yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that. And then I think you also talked—talked a little bit about how you worked in OD and then you went for your master's.

00:43:53.200 - 00:44:08.080

Could you provide just a brief timeline of all your professional experiences and also how you're—or, touch again, on how your professional interests have evolved over time with those experiences? Oh, gosh. Oh, okay. That's a lot.

00:44:08.080 - 00:44:24.280

My—so my professional experiences—oh, gosh, I, you know, I mean, I can—that's a long time ago though, but, when I was in, I think high school, my—my father opened up his own chemical company.

00:44:25.070 - 00:44:42.740

And I used to help them—this is where my fashion design—designing came in—I designed his brochure, I designed his logo. So I started almost as an—as a designer per se for him, got my degrees, went

00:44:42.740 - 00:44:58.160

into teaching, you know, being a teacher-teacher's assistant, went into—gosh, I've been around for so long, I don't even remember. I mean, it's-it's been a long road.

00:44:58.250 - 00:45:20.620

Gosh, I worked for—I don't remember the timeline. Let me see. What did I do? I think I went to work for—you know, I just did a lot of OD work. I think I worked for Donna Cole for a little bit at Cole Chemical.

00:45:20.620 - 00:45:31.960

I worked for Asia Society, Texas Center. I worked for Open Houston. I worked for Tye Houston. That's probably not in the right order, but-but as I

00:45:31.960 - 00:45:47.250

developed, it was all about people and processes, and that's what I did. And—and—and then I went to go work for Center Point. I mean, I worked for them for about five years.

00:45:47.310 - 00:46:06.360

And that's when I did a whole lot of human resource development work, training and development work and a little bit of HRM as well, human resource management as a senior HR VP. But yeah, but it-it's been a long road,

00:46:06.360 - 00:46:23.250

but a road full of—it's been a road full of learnings, honestly, and people learning and how to be empathetic, sympathetic, how to—how to gain those leadership qualities. And throughout that, of course, my volunteer work has increased too.

00:46:23.250 - 00:46:38.730

I used to—I used to volunteer for DIL, which is again, a organization that, you know, that helps develop girls specifically in Pakistan. Right, for—it's literacy development.

00:46:39.270 - 00:46:54.600

I've—now I'm doing something for Shifa, which is a health care and social services organization. So I'm doing career development for them right now. I am the speaker chair

00:46:54.600 - 00:47:14.810

for the Association of Talent Development in Houston for their upcoming conference. So everything has to do with HR people, developing people. I'm an advisor for our, leading lady, the university.

00:47:14.810 - 00:47:30.140

I'm a customer experience adviser for them too. So just, you know, I-I volunteer at University of Houston to do a whole lot of resume writing initiatives with Diane in the HRD

00:47:33.260 - 00:47:48.490

function. So, it's-it's been a long road. I don't know if I answered your question. I kind of went off on a tangent. No, that was perfect. Thank you. So, like, out of all—it sounds like you've done a lot of different work with a

00:47:48.490 - 00:48:03.170

lot of different organizations. [SJ: Yes.] Out of all of that work, what would you feel and say that is your greatest career accomplishment thus far? Oh, gosh, my greatest career—so from my professional to my volunteer?

00:48:05.090 - 00:48:21.530

Yes. However you want to interpret that. Okay. I would say really where I am right now. So I–I rolled out Javid Advisors, which is a consultancy, last October. I—and that's my own company.

00:48:21.530 - 00:48:39.270

I became self-employed. I had always wanted to work for myself, and because I wanted that platform where I would have the flexibility to do what I love and what I love is to help people in

00:48:39.270 - 00:48:55.170

a professional environment. Right. So that's why I am I've, you know, I've—I've dove into Shifa. I'm doing ATD—I mean, becoming a, you know, chair for the speaker for this, for the speaker

00:48:55.170 - 00:49:08.960

series, um, for their conference is a big deal. That's a huge feather in my cap. Right. Opening up Javid Advisors is a huge feather in my cap. Bringing all my learnings together and opening up a consultancy.

00:49:08.960 - 00:49:23.440

You know, in October, having three contracts under me right away is a is a feather in my cap. So I think where I am today, um. Really is my greatest achievement.

00:49:23.470 - 00:49:39.520

Um, it's bringing everything together, right? Learning everything from my international travels to my family, teaching me to my learning lessons. Everything is is what I'm doing today.

00:49:39.520 - 00:49:50.270

I'm so happy to be here. I—You should be very happy. Sounds like you've accomplished so much in your life. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:49:50.270 - 00:50:04.620

Definitely. And,I guess, like, although you've already accomplished so much, what goal would you say that you hope to achieve in the future for yourself? Oh gosh, I really I definitely want to develop my consultancy,

00:50:04.620 - 00:50:19.020

more. I'd love to hire people. I want to grow it. I want to make it international. I definitely want to, um, pursue my PhD. I've always wanted to be called doctor, so, you know,

00:50:19.020 - 00:50:35.400

got to do it. But I think that's—those are my those are my goals right now, you know, and of course, part of my goals. I don't know if it's so much of a goal, but is to see my children accelerate and achieve whatever they need to achieve,

00:50:35.400 - 00:50:56.040

help them, you know, get to wherever they need to—need to be. And you've obviously done so much throughout your profession of H.R.. Have you ever experienced any discrimination being a Pakistani and Muslim woman in your field?

00:50:56.670 - 00:51:17.620

I have not actually. Surprisingly, I'm really surprised I have not. Yeah. No, I have not. None. You know, I—when I went to go work for CenterPoint. I quit work to pursue my master's degree, and because

00:51:17.620 - 00:51:33.070

I wanted to go to school full time and—and I was able to do that because my husband was supporting me, of course. And, um, I was a 40 something year old doing my master's, and then I had to get—I had to–I had to take an

00:51:33.070 - 00:51:44.980

internship course. And for that, of course, I needed an internship. And that's how I got into CenterPoint energy. And, um, I thought I would be discriminated against being that old. And then, of course, applying for an internship.

00:51:45.400 - 00:52:02.020

Um, but, um, but no, um, it was one of the greatest experiences of my life. It really was. I mean, I was working with younger, younger kids in that program, but, um, it was such a learning experience, um, to, to learn from the millennials.

00:52:02.230 - 00:52:19.090

It was–it was–it was very, very interesting. But yeah. No, I've not experienced any discrimination. I've experienced discrimination outside of my professional realm. But not–but not in my–in my profession.

00:52:19.090 - 00:52:30.670

No. Again. I think that also has to do with the last 17 years being in Houston. I think being–being the diverse city that it is really.

00:52:32.260 - 00:52:47.390

Yeah. I guess like on along the same vein of like struggles. In HR, what would you say is the most challenging or frustrating part about working in this field? All the nodes you have to say.

00:52:48.630 - 00:53:03.720

Honestly, it is so difficult. So, um, you know, in my–in my, with my job with, advisors, it's been, you know, I do a lot of recruiting for another consultant, and, um, it's–it's

00:53:03.720 - 00:53:18.630

hard when-I think the recruiting part is the toughest. Um, it's hard saying all those giving all those no's because, you know, people do silly mistakes, like when they send me

00:53:18.630 - 00:53:35.960

a resume that's hasn't been spell checked or has ten different bullets on it, or, you know, the margins are not right or, you know, and if you're applying for a design position and your resume is not, um, not up to par.

00:53:36.290 - 00:53:52.970

Um, but. Yeah, it's it's I think the most difficult thing is, um, not being able to help someone, um, you know, not not being able to, like. Yeah. Not being able to help someone. Really. It's the toughest one I know I can,

00:53:53.000 - 00:54:06.680

but there's so much red tape, I can only go so far. So. But the– But the good side is. Yes. Right. You have all the-Great network and you are able to help people.

00:54:06.680 - 00:54:20.360

I just got somebody in internship and I'm so happy because I used my connections. Right. Uh, just today it came through. This kid wanted–wanted an internship, and I–and I introduced him and he interviewed and he–he got the internship.

00:54:20.360 - 00:54:32.120

So, you know, that's the positive side. The negative side would be like, if you're an international student and I can't help you because the company doesn't accept. Right? If they can't give out like the visas can't–can't support you.

00:54:32.120 - 00:54:49.200

So that's that's the that's the–that's the hard part of it. I, as I guess, like being in HR for so long. What advice would you give to Asian American or international students of your own?

00:54:49.530 - 00:55:09.970

Looking to enter, like, corporate spaces? Is to be professional really and–and to you know, I just did–I just–I just did a coaching–coaching gig you want to call it for a–for a couple of people.

00:55:09.970 - 00:55:26.470

And, my–my really my–my key words, parting words to them were is to practice your 60 seconds elevator pitch have that down. Know what you want to know what you know and be able

00:55:26.470 - 00:55:42.010

to articulate it. And practice makes perfect. Really. And, you know, like I said, be professional and, you know, do your homework. Everyone has to do their homework.

00:55:42.010 - 00:55:58.320

You know, as you're growing in your career, doing your homework, networking, practicing, practice your 60 seconds elevator pitch. Be present. You know, I know these days I–and I see this quite often.

00:55:58.320 - 00:56:09.850

You could be in an interview and you could have your phone and you could be doing this. You're talking to someone, you're looking down your phone. Don't do that. Don't do that. Because you know, some of those a lot of people say, oh, that's so old school or that's no, it's just basic manners.

00:56:09.850 - 00:56:23.220

Mannerisms. I think, yeah. Networking, practicing how to deliver what you want, what you need, asking for it, never being afraid. I learned this very early on.

00:56:23.220 - 00:56:33.420

What's the worst that can happen? Somebody's going to say sorry, no, right. It's not going to kill you. You know, but they may be able to introduce you to someone else.

00:56:33.420 - 00:56:46.650

My generation was very much out there. We network, you know, we we shook hands. Give that hard handshake and, be present, go and network.

00:56:46.650 - 00:56:59.550

You know, you got–you got to meet people face-to-face. You really do. It makes a huge difference. I know we're all in that work-from-home lifestyle. But it really makes a difference if you're in the office and you're doing the water

00:56:59.550 - 00:57:17.940

cooler talk, or you are networking face-to-face, not just through zoom or, you know, teams or something. I'm taking all these notes down. No. It's true. Seriously. And find a mentor. Really. That's another thing. You know, when

00:57:17.940 - 00:57:31.140

you're networking, you got to find a mentor. You got to find somebody who you can lean on, who can introduce you to people. Because it's not–it's not always, you know, when kids come to me or when, you know, leaders come to me, it's not only people who–who you know how I

00:57:31.140 - 00:57:40.440

can help, but it's people who I can introduce you to. Maybe they can help. Right? So I may have this vast network. I may not be able to put you in a job.

00:57:40.650 - 00:57:52.760

Maybe somebody else will. Right? I may not be recruiting for this job, but maybe somebody else. Maybe another recruiter I know will be, right? So. Yeah. I could go on and on on that topic. I love that topic.

00:57:54.450 - 00:58:10.530

Yeah. You have a lot of wisdom that I need to be internalizing right now. Very good. You also talked a lot about your consultant company that you started. What was your experience with starting your own company?

00:58:10.650 - 00:58:28.410

And how–how has it been like, up until now? Sure, sure. So–so, you know, so I–I love corporate America, by the way. I love that huge paycheck I was getting. But again, like I said, I needed at the—I think where I am in my life

00:58:28.410 - 00:58:42.480

right now, I needed that flexibility. My daughter actually got married last December and, yeah. Yay. I just needed that flexibility. Not only for that, I've got aging parents.

00:58:42.480 - 00:58:52.800

I need to travel back to Pakistan a little bit more to go see them. I've got siblings here who I need to go visit more often. I've got a sister in Dubai also. I need to go see more often.

00:58:53.310 - 00:59:07.500

Professionally, I was very—I was extremely burnt out, actually, to be honest. I was doing 12 to 14 hour days, even on the weekends when you're–when you're a HR business partner, you're like a manager,

00:59:07.500 - 00:59:19.290

right? I had, I don't know, 700, 800. I forget the number. Some people underneath me at that time when I was working for this utility company, before I quit, before I, um, opened up my own consultancy.

00:59:19.710 - 00:59:35.100

And then I had a lot of experience, and I had always wanted to do something for myself. So I think it was–I think it was just the way things got laid out. I took that leap of faith.

00:59:35.100 - 00:59:46.830

So last summer I gave my resignation and I said, you know what? I need a break. First I need to plan for this wedding. And then I just needed a mental break for my own mental health.

00:59:47.130 - 01:00:01.980

And I took off for quite a bit and then October. So my husband already had opened, actually, Javid Advisors. And what I did was I plugged myself into it and made it into a more of a HR learning and development consultancy.

01:00:02.010 - 01:00:11.700

He's in procurement supply chain. I'm like, you do your stuff whenever you need to, but I'll take it over from here. And–and I took that leap of faith and honestly,

01:00:11.700 - 01:00:25.760

taking that leap of faith, um, it requires a lot of support. And, I want to say, sometimes you just have to be blind to everything else. That's. You can't–you can't negative talk yourself.

01:00:25.760 - 01:00:35.480

You have to, you know, you–you just have to talk yourself into it. And then when you're standing, I always say, I was standing at that cliff and I said, you know what? I'm just going to jump.

01:00:35.630 - 01:00:45.470

I have to do it. I have to try it. And what's the worst that can happen? I don't believe in failure, but a learning lesson, it'll be a learning lesson. It's not a failure. It's a—it'll be a learning lesson if

01:00:45.470 - 01:01:01.910

I don't go where I want to go, right? Or it won't be what I–what I thought it would be. But I took that leap of faith and again, and this is why I say to all the graduating students or, you know, students in general,

01:01:01.910 - 01:01:16.490

or the young folks, early professionals network, network, network. Because how I started getting my contracts was through my network. I had to interview, I had to give proposals. Right? I had to–I had to fight for it.

01:01:16.490 - 01:01:26.510

It wasn't handed to me. It was all based on merit, but it was my network opening up doors, going, hey, they're looking for someone, right? Maybe–maybe you can be a contractor there.

01:01:26.510 - 01:01:41.570

Or maybe you can, you know, you can be you–you can be a consultant there. And–and I applied and I got the–I got–I got the contracts and—it's–it's really hard work, you know,

01:01:41.570 - 01:01:53.840

in December, like I said, my daughter got married, so I worked for, so I—so I started working, like, in October. Kind of dabbling wasn't very serious, you know, didn't have the serious contracts then got them a little bit later.

01:01:57.060 - 01:02:12.360

But I worked for another consultant for a little bit in October, November, and I was supposed to invoice. In December, and I forgot because I was busy with–with my daughter's wedding.

01:02:12.360 - 01:02:21.570

Come January by this consultant goes so Sahara, did you work for free for us? I'm like, what do you mean? And she's like, you forgot to invoice.

01:02:21.780 - 01:02:33.240

I'm like, oh my gosh. So here's a lesson learned. So instead of getting paid in December, I got paid in January. But that was okay. I mean it was a small sum, but it was okay. It was a learning lesson.

01:02:33.240 - 01:02:47.280

Right? So now I've got that on my calendar that I need to invoice every fifth of the month. Right. So I get an alert. But it's been—you know, it's–it's really hard work. It's not easy. Nothing is easy whether you're working for someone else or whether you're

01:02:47.280 - 01:02:58.380

working for–for yourself. You really have to be very disciplined. You know, you have to get up in the morning. You,–you know–you have to be at your desk at a certain time.

01:02:58.740 - 01:03:10.770

You can't do the whole, you know, I love socializing too. I love my friends, too. But–but you can't do that. You know, the minute they found out, they're like, oh, okay, you're not working. You're not flexible schedule so you can come to lunch.

01:03:10.770 - 01:03:24.990

I'm like, no, I can't come to lunch. I'm busy working. I'm working for myself, and I have to be very disciplined and you have to be. So you have to bring all your learnings together, bring that discipline with it, discipline and–and work really hard.

01:03:24.990 - 01:03:35.520

And you've got a network. I mean, like, I'm, I'm networking like crazy. And I love it. I mean, that's how I got the, you know, I was talking to friends about Shifa and–and,

01:03:35.550 - 01:03:49.140

you know, it's–it's for they have a transitional home and I'm going to be career coaching some of the girls there who need it, you know, and it's–it's all word of mouth. It's not paid. It's voluntary.

01:03:49.230 - 01:04:03.180

But that's fine, but I'm networking. Right. It doesn't matter. I'm networking. ATD same thing. ATD Houston I got the—I'm this—I'm the speaker chair. That's all network and eventually it'll get me somewhere else.

01:04:03.180 - 01:04:13.590

My other contracts are paid contracts, which is fine. But discipline discipline, discipline, it's–it's been a ride and it's and—it's going well so far. I don't know what it's going to be like next month or six months from now.

01:04:13.830 - 01:04:27.510

Hopefully bigger and better, but–but, you know, you have to take everything in stride. So [CN: Yeah.]Yeah, huge learning. Yeah. I feel like that's very, important thing to hear for anyone at

01:04:27.510 - 01:04:40.500

any, like, point of their life is the discipline thing. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. So you just mentioned Shifa, and I think you mentioned a lot of other organizations that you previously a part of.

01:04:40.740 - 01:04:53.260

What other can you name, like the organizations that you were previously involved of—in and like what your experience was like being involved with those? Yeah. Relations?

01:04:53.440 - 01:05:11.800

Yeah. No. Sure. So, I'm like the advisor for Our Lady of the Lake University. So I–I am partaking in their certification course as well. It's their customer experience course again. This is a great opportunity for me.

01:05:11.890 - 01:05:24.620

For my business as well. But also, it's a great learning, right? It's all about the customer, right? How– how the customer impacts the business.

01:05:24.770 - 01:05:39.440

So I'm helping them with their curriculum, being an advisor. So that's something really neat for me to do. With Shifa, I—you know, my friends were—my friends volunteer there, and I wanted to give back as well.

01:05:39.440 - 01:05:59.230

So I'm volunteering for the organization. Again, like I said, they're a healthcare, social organization. And I am going to do a little bit of career coaching for, you know, a couple of their—I don't want to

01:05:59.230 - 01:06:11.320

say employees, but you know whoever they're helping. So I'll be doing, you know, resume writing skills. I'll be doing mock interviews. I'll be helping them with their–with their branding,

01:06:11.320 - 01:06:25.930

with their elevator pitches, and kind of, maybe even discovering depending on who my clients are once I, you know, begin this, you know. What what careers do they want to get into.

01:06:25.930 - 01:06:37.930

So a lot of career coaching. ATD so the Association for Talent Development, so I'm the speaker chair for the Houston chapter. They have a conference coming up in September.

01:06:37.930 - 01:06:51.550

It's a technology conference. We're still in the midst of getting things together. But their theme is empowering talent. So again, it's talent and learning development based.

01:06:51.760 - 01:07:06.520

So I'm very excited about that. And what else am I involved in? I think... Oh, and U of H, right. So, the —one of the

01:07:06.520 - 01:07:21.010

professors there runs a resume writing platform again for the U of H students. The undergrads or graduate students. And, again, it's just going in there, talking about and

01:07:21.010 - 01:07:32.440

helping the students with their resumes. It;s I mean—it's there's more to it than that. But yes, we talk about career development and, in that–in that platform as well.

01:07:32.440 - 01:07:46.400

And then, you know, I've been invited to U of H to talk about my HRBP role itselfthat I did with CenterPoint. So yeah, so–so quite a bit. Are you involved in? Oh, sorry.

01:07:46.400 - 01:07:55.100

Continue. No. Go ahead. No. Go ahead. Are you involved in any cultural organizations or have you been involved in any in the past?

01:07:55.550 - 01:08:10.750

Cultural, as in? Like with the South Asian culture or Pakistani or Asian culture in Houston, like any organizations that revolve around community cultures that are more cultural.

01:08:12.400 - 01:08:25.600

No, not really. I mean, like in the past I volunteered for developments in literacy, but that's—and then PLF, which is the Pakistani Literacy Foundation. But then again, that's all about raising funds

01:08:25.600 - 01:08:43.030

and creating awareness for building schools in Pakistan, as that. But I—but nothing culturally here. But I would love to.Get involved with–with something, that hones in on the culture here.

01:08:44.830 - 01:08:55.660

Yeah. I think we're gonna. I've made you talk about your career. So, I wanted to get a little bit of sense about you, more of your family and your personal life.

01:08:55.660 - 01:09:07.480

So could you tell us about your family and how you met your spouse? Sure, sure, sure. So, I—spouse is a family friend, we grew up together.

01:09:07.480 - 01:09:19.840

I used to meet him every time I used to go to Pakistan during my summer breaks. And, you know, of course, we started liking each other. And then traditionally, you know how it's done. All the arranged marriage stuff happens. But we knew each other, liked each other.

01:09:22.120 - 01:09:37.690

Met him like that, and we got married very young. We have two daughters. One is 27 years old. She's in—her name is Summer. She is in marketing. Although she is pivoting into

01:09:37.690 - 01:09:52.120

nursing. So she is studying for nursing school. Yes. From marketing to nursing. She. I'm like, good. She's very, very, very smart. She's a brilliant, just a brilliant young lady.

01:09:52.120 - 01:10:07.600

zsgain, has a lot of empathy to give, a very sensitive,super smart, my younger one, just—the one who just got married in December, so she, just—she's a lawyer, so she just passed the bar last year.

01:10:07.630 - 01:10:20.650

Last year was a really big year for her. She finished her law school, passed the bar, got, you know, she's working at Kirkland and—Kirkland and Ellis and. Yeah, she's a–she's a lawyer there.

01:10:20.650 - 01:10:33.040

Her husband is in medical school. He just started. His name is Hadi. My lawyer's name is Samia. And her husband, Hadi, um, is in his fourth

01:10:33.040 - 01:10:44.590

year of medical school as well, so. And my husband, of course, who I cannot forget, who's been my support for the last 30 something years. Um, his name is Shahid Javid.

01:10:44.590 - 01:10:57.820

And, he is a EVP and CPO for Aimbridge Hospitality, which is a hospitality services company. It's a private equity company.

01:10:57.820 - 01:11:13.180

And he works out of companies in Dallas, so he travels a lot. He's been traveling a lot for the last 32 years. So he's a consultant, I guess, at heart. But, yeah, the both the girls were born in Chicago Illinois.

01:11:13.180 - 01:11:25.560

So that's their home town. But they love Houston. Or so I think so, I hope. But yeah. And then, of course, I still have my parents.

01:11:25.560 - 01:11:36.050

My parents live in Pakistan. I've got four siblings. My elder sister, who's two years older than me, lives in Dubai. She's married, has two kids,

01:11:36.050 - 01:11:51.870

a son and a daughter. And, I've got a brother, younger brother who's in Indiana, who's also a doc–who's also a doctor. Also married, two kids, and another brother in California, in San Jose. And he is in.

01:11:51.870 - 01:12:04.260

He's going to kill me. I'm going to say IT. And he hates that. He's in securities. Customer service, I guess. Also married and has two children to.

01:12:05.920 - 01:12:19.570

But yeah. Yeah, it sounds like you've raised your children to be very successful. Growing up, what sort of values and principles did you prioritize and instill in your children during their upbringing?

01:12:22.790 - 01:12:37.760

Oh, my gosh, that's such a big question. You know, I am— the way I was raised–I was raised with a lot of morals and values, you know, old, old values. Right. To–to get up when a senior walks into the room to

01:12:37.760 - 01:12:56.390

give them your chair. The simple things in life to help, you know, somebody across the street, to help carry the bags. Values of family values of... I've just being a human being of being a nice person.

01:12:56.390 - 01:13:10.880

You know, we–we I always say, you know, religion and culture are all great, but if you're not a good human being, nothing's gonna help you. So you have to be a really good human being. You have to be giving. You have to be caring. You have to be sensitive.

01:13:11.030 - 01:13:23.420

And you know, that doesn't mean that you're weak. That means you're strong. Actually, you–you know– you should want to achieve something. Whatever that achievement is, it's all relative, right? For us.

01:13:23.420 - 01:13:39.360

Maybe there—for one of my children, her achievement could look this big for me. It could look this big, or it could look this–this big to me and this big to her. So–so, yeah, a lot of. just morals and values of being a really good person.

01:13:39.360 - 01:13:52.020

You know, the usual, you know, don't lie, don't cheat. You know, be good to people, you know, tell–tell the truth all the time. Be nice. Be caring, be helpful. You know, help people.

01:13:52.020 - 01:14:00.300

I think helping people. And then just–just be a good human being. Really. At the end of it, I really feel. And I tell this to my children all the time.

01:14:00.330 - 01:14:14.970

If you're a good human being, I feel God will always look after you. Honestly, you do good, and that good will always come back. What you send out to the universe is what's–what the universe is going to send back to you. So they're really—I'm so proud of them.

01:14:14.970 - 01:14:24.940

They're really, really good girls. They've achieved a lot. Um, yeah. I'm very, very proud of them. It sounds like they get it from their mom.

01:14:26.440 - 01:14:38.530

And you know, I have to–I have to add at the essence of that, it's if I didn't say it before, it's family. Family time is so important, you know, I know how busy we are in our lives.

01:14:38.530 - 01:14:55.510

You know, you need dual–You need a dual–A lot of families are dual income families. Right to–to achieve whatever you know, one needs to achieve or, you know, their lifestyle. But at the end of the day, you know, having dinner together at the table

01:14:55.510 - 01:15:10.450

is very important. Sunday brunches is very important. Just those values of, you know, being not being a people pleaser, but, you know, just being–just being available for people, you know, for your family.

01:15:10.450 - 01:15:20.950

That's–that's–that's the number one value, I think, for–for us as a family. Yeah, I relate to that. My mom's always like, if I'm out with my friends,

01:15:20.950 - 01:15:32.590

my mom will be like, are you going home for dinner? And I'm like—to go, guys, I'm sorry. Yeah, because it's important. Because I'm sure, like, you sit around the table and then you discuss. You know what you know, how was your day and how was your day?

01:15:32.590 - 01:15:45.970

And, you know, it's nice, like my married daughter, she lives about 15 minutes away, but she comes home, her husband comes home, and it's nice. We have discussions, you know? And how are you and what are you working on?

01:15:45.970 - 01:15:57.580

And, you know, how can we help you? Right? Sometimes when you're young, you don't value those things. But as you grow older, you realize, you know what? Like when I think back to all my times, my summer breaks,

01:15:57.580 - 01:16:09.790

or, you know, me being raised with my parents, I think about–I think it always reminds me of that time, you know, when the clock turned seven, my dad would come home and that's when we would had have dinner.

01:16:09.790 - 01:16:20.110

We'd sit around the table and we'd talk about, you know, we'd go. It'd be like a round table, go around and talk about, you know, how was your day and what are you working on? I think it's so important to be connected.

01:16:21.180 - 01:16:37.910

To have that conversation. Yeah. And how important was it for you to educate your children on your own ethnic heritage when raising them? It was very important, I tell you, because, I made a promise to

01:16:37.910 - 01:16:51.800

myself. Because the way I was raised, you know, there wasn't a whole lot of religion or culture. And when I was–when I was being raised. So I had to self-teach myself quite a bit and–and

01:16:51.800 - 01:17:04.490

I made a promise to myself when I was younger that when I would have kids, I would try to make it because it was very important to me. Again, I think, like when you asked me earlier, I felt like a vagabond, right?

01:17:04.490 - 01:17:17.690

I wasn't Western, I wasn't eastern, I was just in the middle, dangling right and left, right and left. Never really belonging here and never really belonging there. So I always wanted my children to belong. So teaching them our culture,

01:17:17.690 - 01:17:33.920

our religion was very, very important, teaching them the values, the larger values from the larger community as well. Getting the best from the West, best from the east, and instilling those, that ideology, the–the good,

01:17:33.920 - 01:17:50.550

the bad, in them, I think was very, very important to know what the good and bad is rather, was very important for me, because, you know, you have to assimilate. You're living here. This is home. Right. And keeping some of that culture alive is—I think it's very

01:17:50.550 - 01:18:05.160

important. When my children have children, you know, they may not speak Urdu really well. And it may not help them down–down the–down the road. They may never use it, but–but you know–but knowing where the

01:18:05.160 - 01:18:15.840

heritage is from, knowing what a little bit of the culture is, I think it's important you would–you would not want it to die out, you know? I mean, we live in America. There's always an Oktoberfest that's German.

01:18:15.840 - 01:18:27.660

Right? Or there's–Or there's other other, you know, Chinese New Year. Right. So we celebrate all of that. So teaching my children, like, about either or about those religious

01:18:27.660 - 01:18:44.880

holidays or cultural holidays, and to celebrate those in a melting pot, I think is very important because we are a melting pot here. And then finally to get into the last part of the interview, I want to ask you some questions about how you consider your own identity.

01:18:44.880 - 01:18:57.900

First being, how do you identify yourself ethnically? I identify myself. That's such a good question. And, you know, I knew you would ask me that. And I've been thinking about it all day. Like, what would I say?

01:18:57.900 - 01:19:11.480

Am I a Pakistani American or American Pakistani? I would say this is so hard because how I was raised, like I don't identify myself. I identify myself as a muslim.

01:19:12.540 - 01:19:28.290

Right. So I've got the Pakistani culture, but I've got the American culture in me as well. So it's so hard to answer that question. I don't know how I did it by myself. Well, no, I said as just as a as a muslim, as a human being.

01:19:28.290 - 01:19:43.020

Honestly, that's how I would identify myself because I'm lost when I go to Pakistan. Sometimes I'm lost when I'm here. Right? When I was younger, I used to be lost. I think I'm more mature now and I have my feet well into the–into the

01:19:43.020 - 01:19:54.300

ground. Um, uh, and there's a lot of stability, but, yeah. No, I would identify myself as a muslim, really, and as a as a person of the world, honestly. Because that's how I grew up.

01:19:54.300 - 01:20:06.810

I have so many different—I've learned so much from different cultures and different religions, from different people. Yeah. It just makes me a person of the world. Really.

01:20:08.080 - 01:20:20.020

No. It's always so interesting seeing how people answer this question, because it's like you think people would just be like, oh, I'm Korean. Oh, I'm like, but it's like everyone really, like sees it so differently. So no. Yeah.

01:20:20.020 - 01:20:33.130

It's like yeah, it's–it's–a hard–it's a hard question. And it makes you think because I'm sure like if my parents heard me say that, they'd go, oh my God, you're a Pakistani. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I mean, I do identify myself, of course,

01:20:33.130 - 01:20:46.030

as Pakistani. Even people ask me, yeah, what's your heritage? I'm like, yes, Pakistani, but I'm also American now, right? Or the way I was raised, I was raised as a global person. So. You know it is what it is.

01:20:47.140 - 01:21:00.820

Yeah. And then, what do you feel most proud of? Sorry? What do you feel most proud of? Oh, my gosh, I'm so proud of my

01:21:00.820 - 01:21:12.680

children and my husband. I really am. I'm going to get weepy. No. No, I am really. What they've achieved, what we have achieved as a family. I'm really proud of my family.

01:21:13.040 - 01:21:25.600

I really am where we are, how we started.Oh my gosh. Oh how we started and where we are today. That was a cheeky answer. Made me smile.

01:21:27.880 - 01:21:42.370

It takes hard work to get–to get to a certain place right when you're beginning and you've got no income and your students, and then you work your way up, and then you have two beautiful children who have achieved a lot. So yeah.

01:21:43.030 - 01:21:54.730

Yes. Happy late Mother's Day. Yah Thank you. And then when and where do you feel most at home? When and where. When? Where do I feel most?

01:21:54.730 - 01:22:07.690

At home? Right here. Right? Right here. Right now. Honestly, in my house with my family is where my heart belongs. I love to socialize, but, you know, as soon as I go to parties, I like to come home right away.

01:22:07.690 - 01:22:18.520

I start looking at my watch, going, okay, let's go home. Been there, done that. Check mark. No, no, this this place. Just being with family.

01:22:18.520 - 01:22:28.990

Family is where my heart is. Families where I feel home at. Whether it's with my husband, my children, whether it's with my siblings. You know, we we had this massive wedding in December.

01:22:28.990 - 01:22:45.910

I had about 150, 200 relatives fly in for this. Yes, wedding. We had 600 people at this wedding. And yeah, that is where my home and my heart is. It's with my extended family,

01:22:45.910 - 01:23:02.240

my immediate family, my extended family. We are just very, very family oriented. We're a whole bunch of crazy, fun loving people who love to, um. Sing and dance and have a good

01:23:02.240 - 01:23:18.600

time, honestly and–and just to be around each other. And around food. We're big foodies. No, that sounds like such a fun party. It was. It was. I don't remember a thing.

01:23:18.600 - 01:23:32.740

But it was. And then if your children were to watch this interview in the future, what is the message you would want to give them? If my children were to watch this in the future.

01:23:33.010 - 01:23:49.270

Um. I would say...I would say be proud of where you are. Be thankful. Always thank the

01:23:49.270 - 01:24:07.140

people behind you. Always, pay it forward. And I think just that I'm just so proud of them. Whatever and wherever they are in their life, and to always remember their roots and what I taught them.

01:24:07.140 - 01:24:25.650

Otherwise I'll haunt them if I'm not around. And lastly, is there anything that you would like to add that we have not covered? Now. I think this was such a great opportunity to share my story.

01:24:27.300 - 01:24:38.510

yeah, I think. It's, you know, I feel honored. I really do. I don't—I think you covered everything. I love sharing my story.

01:24:38.510 - 01:24:53.990

I know it's a little bit of hodgepodge here and there because we moved around so much, and, my life went from A to T to B to Z, but–but yeah. No. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed speaking to you.

01:24:54.860 - 01:25:09.530

No, thank you so much. I feel like listening to all of this was like very inspirational to hear where you came from and like all the wisdom that you have from all your life experiences. And I feel like it really just showed by, everything that you had to say and share.

01:25:09.560 - 01:25:24.350

So thank you for taking your time to share your story with the archive. Yeah. Like I said, the final transcript will be sent to you for approval. And, a couple of weeks following the editing process that's going to go through.

01:25:24.380 - 01:25:30.830

Okay. Yeah. Once again, thank you so much. Thank you. Cecilia. Thank you, I appreciate it. Your day.

01:25:31.010 - 01:25:33.170

All right. Take care. Bye bye. Bye.