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My name is Ruchi Tiwari. I'm an intern for the Houston Asian American Archive. And today's date is Sunday, April 23rd, 2023. And I'm interviewing Mr.

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Sanjay Jain over Zoom. So we're going to start chronologically, so we're going to start with your early life. And so can I ask where and when you were born? I was born in-in a colony of New Delhi, India.

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I don't know if you're familiar with that. In really South Delhi. It's called Green Park, right in between All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Safdarjung, and IIT.

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I was born on March 18, 1963. So, only a month ago, I turned 60! Oh, my God! Congratulations. [laughs]

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Thank you. [laughs] So, growing up, was there any significant aspect that shaped the culture and time? And this could be, like, popular movies, television shows,

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music, anything that you remember. Yeah. Y-You know, it's kind of interesting. I've been not as much attracted to movies or shows and stuff as much to the music.

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And I-I-I was born in a religious family. My parents, my grandmother, my—I didn't see my grandpa except for very young age when I was only four—not even four. And my uncles, aunts, everybody was a regular...

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I-I don't want to say visitor, but regularly went to the Jain Temple. So we dragged around, not knowing what we were doing, just follow the traditions. And one of them, you may or may not know, it's called Anant Chaturdashi. It's a—it's-it's falls right after Paryushan.

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And—so we are Digambaras. We follow the Digambara tradition, which is called Das Lakshan Parv. Ten–ten virtues, you know, decide those. And it ends with Anant Chaturdashi, which is 14th day of the

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month. And on that day, typically, people do–do fasting and all that. In our Jain Temple in–in Delhi, there used to be a procession of the idol, mostly the Bhagwan Mahaveer, Adinath, or

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Parshwanath. And it will be taken in a chariot all around the town. Not really town—the colony, I should say. And with lots of band and so forth. So, at that time, you know, people would dress

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up as what's called, "Indras," who are the entourage of the–of the God. So I got a chance when I was ten. And it was extremely enriching experience, which kind of

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phased me to continue to believe in the religion and continue to believe in good deeds and follow the family traditions. But it's a weird story, you may not have heard it before, but that's a procession that goes on every year on that time.

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The other–other events that take place too, but this is a very special procession. I don't know if you were—you may not be born at that time, '94, Jain Society Houston did something similar at their pratishtha. But you were probably not born then?

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[laughs] No, I was born in 2003. Right exactly–exactly. So–So–So that was a very important

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aspect that shaped me to be, you know, believing in God, believing in our traditions, culture, and kind of—I continued that path. Yeah. No, I totally understand that. Just it sounds amazing.

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And I know for me, personally, like, I used to celebrate Janmashtami every year, so I remember, [SJ: Right.] like, the cultural events. So, that was— It was very similar, if you are celebrating Janmashtami in

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George Brown Center. One year we brought a rath too, because I was involved with Hindus of Greater Houston. We brought a rath to take Krishna Bhagawan on that—on that little tour of the big hall.

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So this was very similar, but there'll be around—I don't know, 15, 20 adults and children. So I got that opportunity, and this was like a prize to get there. Yeah, that sounds really nice.

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Thank you for sharing. So the next question: how would you describe the household you grew up in, including the individuals you lived with? I know you said a little something already, so if you could just elaborate.

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Yeah. So we were a joint family. The home was built by my grandfather in 1959, and that was, of course, before I was born. And that was one of the four—first four houses in Green Park.

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It was jungle. And I remember running there, going into the fields and so forth. We were three brothers, my–my father, his younger brother and older brother.

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We lived in the same household. And my younger uncle got married when I was only six, not even six. My older uncle already had six children in the–in the house. I was the firstborn to my parents.

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So I was, like, the seventh child and was really privileged to be, you know, being among six elder cousins. Why? Because, you know–you know, you don't get any attention unless you have somebody older

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with you. So playing games, being able to go for a walk, being able to attend Shakha and things like that. They guided me, they helped me, we got there. So all our activities in community, if we were go to the Jain Temple or the Arya Samaj

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or Shiv Temple, which were like equidistant from our home, my mom and dad didn't have to worry where I went because I was always with my cousins. And I think that's a big thing, that community activities, not necessarily going to school, but festivals, having fun

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together—having elder cousins was great. And then I have two more—I mean from my–from my side, I have two brothers and one–one young–younger sister. Okay. That's so nice to hear.

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Yeah. So, I know you talked about your joint family, and you talked a little bit about, like, the traditions that you used to celebrate at the Jain Tem-Temple. Are there any other special traditions and how else would you describe your role in

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the family? Oh, yeah. So being the elder sibling, I mean, my second brother was–was only a year and a half younger. My youngest is four years younger and my younger sister is 11 years

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younger. So, my parents trusted me in looking after them, you know, in general. There is no age limit, at least at that time, there was no age limit to babysit. And we would–we would go together, we would play together, I would

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watch very carefully on their well-being. Although my—one of the brothers would be, you know, Gung-ho, like [laughs], go climb–climb the trees, climb the buildings. A couple of times he fell down too.

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But strong boy, strong boy. Similarly, we went to same school together. So that was a relief, two of us. Relief for our parents that they took us to the same school bus every morning

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and we could watch out for each other. And any nuisance, we could–we could take care of each other. Anything we needed to do, you know, then we were there. If somebody stole his lunch, I would share my lunch and–and vice versa.

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So, you know, Mom will pack our lunches. It wasn't an a—it wasn't like stealing, I used a very strong word. But we used to share among friends, and to turn out, my lunch box is gone and everybody else has meat so, "I'm sorry." Or eggs, so I don't [laughs] eat them.

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And then my brother would share it and the other way around. So it's not–it's not stealing, I–I use the wrong word, but that's what—so we– we grew up as a three brothers in the family who are pretty much equal to each other, but they all respect me even till date.

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And my parents had a peace of mind, so that was one. With my older cousins, they looked up to me, you know, we had community contests. So whenever there was what was called "intelligence test," it really wasn't intelligence.

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It was, you know, simple questions and then some general knowledge. "Okay, okay. You–you teach us, you–you let us practice for it". So we would come, you know, in top ranking among and [laughs] bring home a lot of prizes like your dad has in the back.

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So, we would–we would bring on a lot of prizes with that because—and we were known to be the experts. My younger one was really good in–in sports. So he'll be the big runner.

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My oldest—second oldest cousin was like that, too, big runner. So it was a very nice, you know, together we were a very well-rounded family in all fields. Yeah. No, I totally understand, like, the competitiveness, but also the shared

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camaraderie within family. [SJ: Yeah.] Yeah [laughs]. So, can you talk a little bit about your favorite holiday that you celebrated growing up?

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Yeah, you know, being in Green Park in a very cosmopolitan area and so close to all the temples, w-I–I'm really was—I was brought up more like a secular than in a–a–a staunch Jain.

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Having said that, I know–I know the various scriptures, I know various prayers, I know things that we need to do as a Jain. So we would celebrate Holi, Diwali, Janmashtami, Lohri, Baisakhi, I mean all of these festivals, because our

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row of neighbors were celebrating all of them. And as growing up our, you know, it's like [laughs] we just want to go where we have fun, right?

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And not–not necessarily [laughs] that much religion unless it's a temple. So–[RT: Yeah.] so we did that. And among them, you know, Holi is such a fun festival.

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We forget all–all issues among each other, throw color, throw water, mixed color and—so that was my favorite. And we would–we would, you know,

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my—like I said, it was the fourth home by the time I was born and was walking as a three year old. There may be another 15, 20 homes built. So we used to then play in the–in

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the—in those water tanks which they used for construction. But Holi was my favorite. You share food, you share drinks, you share, like, thandai, and you share colors and you just enjoy singing, dancing.

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And we make a big group. We go around the, you know, one end starts and we go around the whole neighborhood in a group of 15, 20 kids. And all our uncles and aunts and the neighbors have welcomed us.

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Mhm. Yeah, that sounds really nice. And I really like the point you made about celebrating the traditions. Like, 'cause I know, like, being here, like, I celebrate Christmas, and it's not more so because it's a part of my religion, but it's just, like, what things [SJ: Right.

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Mhm.] are. And yeah, Holi is very fun [laughs]. Very fun, right? And on Christmas, you know, we do it too, because we didn't want our kids to—we'll talk about it later. We didn't want our kids to feel different.

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Christmas is Christmas. Let's enjoy with gifts and so forth. You're right. That's why we do it. I'm sure your parents did similar.

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And I know you talked a little bit about your neighborhood and how you guys celebrated Holi together. Can you j-talk a little bit more about the neighborhood you grew up in? Oh boy. I could share stories after stories, so I'm going to try to keep it small [laughs]. See, if you've been to

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India, these neighborhoods are built in streets. So really, we don't have addresses like over here, 1409 Horseshoe Drive. Addresses are block. H10 Green Park, Main.

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So this whole street has two rows of houses across each other. And we get to know our neighbors. At that time, population was very low. So, everybody knew everyone.

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Parents knew everyone, kids knew everyone, and we were like a big team. So I–I kind of touched on construction, oh my God, that used to be such fun. You know, after the workers are gone, we go in that little pool. It–It's no bigger than six by six water tank and with the

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six-foot water for constructing house. And we just dip in it [RT laughs], come home, take shower, and my mom's like, "Again?" But she was such a kind lady. She accepted, [laughs] but she told us, " What are you doing?" More than that, you

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know, neighborhood-wise, we played cricket, we played field hockey, we played badminton on the street. So, sometimes our older cousins, their friends, will play badminton, will play cricket.

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All of us together will just find a corner, end of the street like a cul de sac, and–and play field hockey. Very interesting part was when you're playing cricket, even with a tennis ball, you could hit some glasses, you could hit some windows and

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break them. I haven't seen the tolerance of that level ever since [RT laughs]. We'll break our neighbor's glass. It could be me. It could be another neighbor, whatever.

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And they'll come scream, but that's it, "Okay, enjoy." They will not stop us from playing, we could keep playing [laughs]. And that's amazing. They'll get it repaired in a day or two.

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We'll go clean it up because we broke a glass and say, "Okay, guys, be very careful. Don't hit into the house." But they never stopped us from playing. In addition, we played a lot of street games, you know, like the traditional Kho-kho, kabaddi.

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I don't know if you're familiar with "Bittu." You make a–make a little stack of stones and throw with the ball and break them and–and line them together. So, a lot of those Indigenous games we would play, and it was fun.

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I mean, you come home and you're looking for, "Who's home from school ?" And we can play, you know? "Who's home from school? Okay, let's go play." We didn't care about dinner [laughs].

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We didn't care about anything else. Same clothes, just run to the street and go start playing. So it was a–it was a—other part was a very secure neighborhood. There were no fast traffic.

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If there were people coming into the street, they'll be watchful of kids playing. And we'll be watchful of, you know, people driving so we don't block their way unnecessarily. So we'll come to the side, they cross, we go back to play.

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So, i-it was a very, very nice, like, a big family neighborhood. And–and it's amazing, you know, how you get there. And not very easy these days except for clubs or–or community center in the neighborhood you go to.

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Yeah. It sounds like a very welcoming space [laughs]. Yes, it was. [laughs] So my next question is: do you have a favorite dish that you can remember from when you were growing up?

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Oh, boy [RT laughs]. See, when you don't get something, you always get attracted to it, right? Being vegetarian, I'm a foodie. You put vegetarian food in front of me, I'll eat it, okay? So all dishes: chole bhature, samosa, jalebi, tikki, chaat papri,

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you name it. And the best of that was South Indian food: dosa and sambar. There was only one restaurant in Green Park which served South Indian food. There were two—when I was growing up, the two which

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served, you know, everything else. Two sweet (?) houses. And it was not something that my mom would easily made at home. I think it was the lack of availability that attracted me so much.

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To date, I love it [RT laughs]. Like only yesterday, we were at an event and they brought in, you know, sambar and dosa, I said, "Wow! This is amazing".

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So, I still enjoy it. It's light. It's rice-based. Well, that doesn't matter, I can eat chapati also.

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But rice-based, rava-based or, you know, also Moong Dal-based. I don't know if you're familiar with that. It–It's called—I don't know the name right now. So, I love South Indian food.

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Idli, sambar, I could eat it seven days a week. It'd probably take me three, four months to get tired and say I want something else. [laughs] That's amazing. I think—Yeah, one of my mom's favorite dishes is, like, dosa too. And she also comes from North India, so she, like, knows how to make everything else.

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But that's a really good point. Yeah. See–see, I–I think it comes because it wasn't available easily when I was growing up [RT: Yeah.] Today, it doesn't matter [laughs[. You can go to any restaurant and get anything.

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But when I was growing up, it was, like, "Oh, l–dosa was a treat." [laughs] Yeah. So, now moving on, can you talk a little bit about your parents, such as their occupation and things like that. And their background? Okay.

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Well, my parents in—they got married in 1962. They were both graduates of Delhi University, which is, you know, prime university in Delhi and in India. And my mom's father, my Nanaji, was a chemistry

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professor and one of the very premier colleges, Hindu College. My grandfather was a head postmaster of a very big post office in Delhi Gole Market. And my dad did his MBA—not MBA, sorry, MA in political

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science from Delhi College. And my mom, at that time, for a woman or a girl to do MA, she did a MA in philosophy. She was also was part of a very religious family, as I've

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explained about my dad's side. Going from my grandfather, grandmother and so forth. And it's a big accomplishment to get a master's degree at that time in 19—I believe '57 or '56.

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So my–my mom, after that, dedicated herself to the home, which I think is the biggest job. Like Vedas say, "Vanprastha ashram is the—Grastha ashram, followed by Vanprasth is the biggest duty of human."

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So I–I–I think it's–it's a very, very big job that she took on. She took care of us. My dad was in the administrative service in the—i n government of India.

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He–he was in–in the Council of Agricultural Research, which is a primary body, looking after a lot of stuff, including veterinary sciences and so forth. And he finally retired as an Indian Agricultural Research Institute

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registrar. Which, you know, he really enjoyed that–that role. As you–as you grow up in there, you get different deputations. And this was one where he finally retired at. They were both very accomplished, you know, very well connected in

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Jain community. My father was also featured in "Progressive Jains of India," which was written by another Jain who went ages, you know, in the history to find prominent Jains.

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And my father and grandfather were both featured in that particular book, which is still available on Amazon and in paper copies. Yeah [laughs], that's very interesting know—to know. So, what were some values that your parents emphasized in

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your upbringing? So, as I–I-I hinted that a little bit earlier, they trusted me taking care of the—of my–of my younger siblings. And when I had younger cousins, my uncle also trusted me, "Okay.

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If–if something has to happen, Sanjay, let's see what they need to do." But in addition, they–they–they instilled the value of truth, family living, believe in God, do your work, you know, Karmanye

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Vadhiras-Vadhikaraste, it's a Gita shlok—I don't know all of it, so I won't go all the way. But, you know, do your–do your karma, results will come as the karma is done. Be kind, respect elders.

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I think there was very big in our family, to listen to elders. It could be that–that could be your sibling, your cousin, your uncle, aunt, so forth. But respecting elders was a very big deal.

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And participate. We–we hardly argued with anybody elder . We argue among the kids, that's okay, but very little elder. We'll make fun of our elder cousins, but very rarely—I don't

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remember when we made fun of our older generation, like my fathers, you know, my uncles, aunts. It is just what they said is gospel. Try to follow it or talk to them, but not make fun or argue with them.

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So, I–I think that was a–a–a–a biggest v irtue they wanted to instill in us. And they did. Yeah [laughs].

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That's very nice to know [laughs]. And so, now we're going to move on to talk about your college. [SJ: Okay.] So, who was someone that you looked up to or were inspired by growing up or you saw as your mentor?

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Yeah, I–I think to answer this question, why don't I tell you a little bit about my college, and what I did where, and then the answer will fall very easily for who inspired me, okay? And the reason is, it was the—then, the director

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of–of IIT Delhi, Dr. O.P. Jain. And I'll–I'll—I can tell you all about him, but you'll relate and the listeners or viewers will relate a lot more, if I can talk a little bit about where I went to attend and—and what I did there.

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Is that okay? Yeah, of course [laughs]. Okay. So obviously I've pulled cat out of the hat. I attended IIT Delhi, Indian Institute of Technology, one of the premier engineering

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colleges then, even now. At that time, there were only five of them and it was like a lottery. Even today, you know, when I–when I went there,

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only 1 to 2 percent of the graduating students could get admission to IIT—IITs, one of the five. And then it depends on what–what major you want, okay?

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And the biggest challenge was to attend that competitive exam, which is nothing but a physics, chemistry, and mathematics, and English exam. You are graded and ranked on physics, chemistry, mathematics.

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That's foundation of engineering. And based on how you score in that, you are awarded some certain discipline. In this one, you know, like IIT Delhi and other ones and so forth.

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So, IIT Deli was just, like, three kilometres, two—almost [laughs] two miles from my home. And I was so familiar with it because my–m y high school and middle school where I went was in that

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campus. So it was nothing new. I didn't know where I was going, "What is IIT Deli?" But I got in there and it was a–it was a prize to–to get. And it was a joyous–joyous day.

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So, I got civil engineering, which was not the highest rank because my rank was kind of low. 917—977–977, sorry. And, then I think, "Oh.

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Director of IIT Delhi is a very well-renowned civil engineer worldwide." He expertise was in structural engineering. And he—I mean, you may not know this, but Indraprastha Stadium, which has no pillars in the

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entire stadium. The roof was—he was one of the designers. Very, very major accomplishment where, you know, a lot of sports take place. It's a sports arena built for 1982

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Asian–Asian games. And I said, "If he can do it, that's a great thing". Other aspect was, coming to your original question, he was a humble man.

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Not because I was Jain, but I had—I got in contact with him and he would mix with students and faculty alike. He did not—he and his wife both would love to meet with us, and I would meet with him at a professional level as a representative of

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Civil Engineering Society. But at a personal level, like on Holi, that's the other aspect of Holi, they would invite all the students to–to their home and give us all the sweets and color.

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And they had a big yard, you know, in front of the home, just like we have now here, an acre or so. And—so I would play Holi in my—in Green Park, take my bike, come to the hostel, make a group with my friends, and

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then go to director's home. It was a ritual. So, he was such a nice gentleman, I could take advice from him. And he would always was accessible, including a

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few times that he would call me at home, come–come home and meet me alone. Not with my father, not anybody else. And he'll have a meeting with faculty and myself included, talk about whatever we want to talk about. So he was, despite being such an accomplished

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fellow, somebody people looked after—looked up to. He was so humble. And that's what my mentor—I took that quality from him even after, you know, he was guiding me to when

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I wanted to come to US. He was the strength to say, "Sanjay, you need to apply. You need to go for a higher study. You have this characteristic in you.

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You have this skill in you, that you need to do an MS and PhD." So he guided me not just to encourage me to come, but also guided me how I can get there. And so, I really look up to him. Somebody so accomplished.

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World cares about him and he's [laughs] caring about Sanjay Jain, a simple student. And I like to do the same thing now. Yeah, it's–it's really nice to hear about the pillar–the pillar of support that he

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was. And, you know, the next question was what college you were going to attend, and you already answered that. And also congratulations. Yeah, I've heard about IIT.

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It's–it's a very renowned university. Thank you. [laughs] So, could you talk a little bit more about your major? Yes, civil engineering.

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So, you know, like I said, it was very competitive to get in there. So, if I got a branch which is–which is spelled (?) with engineering, electrical, mechanical, civil, chemical, t extile, these four-five were there at that time, I would take it.

00:29:19.010 - 00:29:30.150

But it was not having engineering in front like a basic sciences. I did not want to take it. That–that's just my personal opinion. They were—it's not bad, it's just what you want it to be.

00:29:31.120 - 00:29:44.170

In civil engineering, I–I majored in what's called hydraulics and hydrology. This is engineering to handle water treatment. Not treatment, just water in general.

00:29:44.200 - 00:29:54.840

You know, the dams are built. That was my major project. Not a thesis, but it was the final project for my civil engineering course to finish.

00:29:54.840 - 00:30:12.720

I did a design on that. When I came for MS civil engineering over to US, I think you'll ask it later, but I did–I did continue that direction. It was very interesting how to channel water.

00:30:12.720 - 00:30:31.220

You know, I could—we visited Bhakra Nangal Dam as part of our field trip. I had done my what's called the training, you know, it's kind of like internship for summer at Uttarkashi Dam, which was ended up being the largest in India afterwards.

00:30:33.350 - 00:30:48.470

Beyond that, IIT gave us a lot of opportunities to play, t o be a well-rounded student or gentleman as we grew up. Swimming pools, tennis courts, field hockey, water

00:30:48.890 - 00:31:03.690

polo. So all those were there. And with civil engineering, I did participate in the Civil Society Club, which I finally became the secretary, which is the highest rank a student holds.

00:31:03.690 - 00:31:22.710

And above that is the president, who's the chairman of–chairman of the department. We used to call them a HOD, head of the department. And it would—it allows me to do a lot of interaction with faculty, look out for students, you know, and–and our

00:31:22.710 - 00:31:39.930

needs. Like in labs, something's not there, the society can reach out to those particular lab managers, the–t he–t he—the chairman of the department and so forth, "We need to–we need to get this stuff stocked." Although that wasn't a problem, really.

00:31:40.320 - 00:31:54.020

But we had that opportunity to do it. We would also, as part of, civil engineering, we did summer—not summer camp. We did a real–real life exercise where we went in

00:31:54.050 - 00:32:08.900

to do surveys. I'm not sure you've seen developments built, but, you know, when they–when they–when the—over in the US, s tart a new development, they had to do surveys, they have to level ground, make sure right slopes are there.

00:32:08.930 - 00:32:25.100

We did that ourselves in summer. We learned drafting, you know, how to make engineering drawings properly. So the civil engineer course was starting from drafting to surveying, also geology, structural engineering, water–water

00:32:25.100 - 00:32:40.820

resources, soil engineering. It's a very, very interesting topic when you build something. So we–we went detail into all of those. And merely four years or three years in the–in the department, have very, very

00:32:40.820 - 00:32:48.990

interesting on the civil engineering. Why I majored there? I told you, it's a lottery system. I got it and I'm happy [laughs].

00:32:49.230 - 00:33:05.040

That's it. People do try to change afterwards. I'm satisfied to be a civil engineer. Yeah. Well, I'm happy that you fell in love with civil engineering [both laugh] . So I know you talked about the civil engineering club that you were part of, but

00:33:05.040 - 00:33:23.220

what there—were there other things that you participated in, in clubs? Yeah. There was a national program called "National Service Scheme". That was to get students from high school to colleges, to go serve the nation.

00:33:23.920 - 00:33:37.830

And we'll get some funds from government, I believe, but we had a budget. We had some funds. So, I thought that would be interesting. So first time I just attended, went there, attended their camp.

00:33:37.830 - 00:33:53.910

Then I said this is a great place to help somebody. So we used to go to a small village, outside of a town called Gurgaon, which is huge now. It's a large city where a lot of IT is based these days.

00:33:54.120 - 00:34:06.630

At that time, it was a small town and two-lane highway going there. From there, we would go to a village called Kadarpur. That village had a school. They would host us.

00:34:06.660 - 00:34:25.260

These villages were so, so kind, so welcoming. So we would take up some projects, like, c lean up the school, what is that—school grounds, so students can play. And we will, you know, we—our holidays in summer or

00:34:25.260 - 00:34:37.980

winter did not coincide with their holidays, so school was in session. We'll go help them. We'll play with the kids. But one thing we found out that they had a problem with water. The wells were drying up.

00:34:38.520 - 00:34:59.760

So we got special permission from the Haryana government and their collector office to fund us to put a t ubewell so that the school can have water, which eventually became water for the entire. So they said, "If we could buy the tubewell motors,

00:34:59.760 - 00:35:18.430

they would install it." And sure thing, we kept pressing them, we kept pressing IIT Delhi, our NSS for funds. So we brought the motor in and the collector's office made sure collectors, like the district judge, you know, like in Fort Bend County is K.P.

00:35:18.430 - 00:35:31.690

George, that's the equivalent of a collector, was not an elected position. And they–they came back. Next time we go there, we find it's a tubewell for the entire village which was

00:35:31.690 - 00:35:44.530

even more pleasure. You know, we did for the school and now the village can benefit from that. Maybe there were total five-six hundred people live there. Then we saw the school was up to middle school, but had no

00:35:44.530 - 00:36:01.090

labs. So next time students got together, we put some money, we got IIT Delhi to give some money and we built it–we built a lab. And occasionally during our weekend or during our, you know, what is

00:36:01.090 - 00:36:14.800

it called—spring break, we would visit them to see how well the lab is doing. Is the–is the science teacher, you know, doing justice to using the labs? And we were so pleased that happened.

00:36:15.070 - 00:36:33.550

I don't know, after I came back here I've not visited since '84. I hope it's grown more and–and more villages. [RT: Mhm.] Those are the two primary areas, secretary of Civil Society and this. Other than, you know, representing my dorm, which is called hostels in

00:36:33.550 - 00:36:48.160

India, we had inter-hostel, inter-dorm competitions. And I don't know the name of the similar thing here. So I used to play field hockey for my dorm. I used to play water polo for my dorm and could not—we

00:36:48.160 - 00:37:04.710

had very, very good players in bridge, b adminton, and tennis. So couldn't get in that for the dorm or IIT. Yeah, no, that sounds like—were very insightful experiences. And we also have intramural, like—

00:37:04.720 - 00:37:15.730

Intramural. Thank you. I forgot. I went to LSU here and forgot about. Intramurals. That's what it is. And it's–it's, you know, like you do it's–it's–it's an honor to bring a

00:37:15.740 - 00:37:25.840

trophy home, right? [laughs] [RT: Yeah.] To your–to your dorm. Yeah. Like, you—I know in my college they have, like, banners and, like, they have, like, the year and, like, the teams and stuff.

00:37:26.170 - 00:37:33.370

So, definitely very honor— That's–that's big. In our days, they used to be a small plaque. [RT laughs] "Field hockey champions year 1983".

00:37:34.630 - 00:37:46.660

That's all I remember (laughs). And it will go into our what's called "common room." So what was the most difficult part of this college journey?

00:37:47.170 - 00:38:01.970

Oh, boy. Getting in. If you thought getting in was easy, you were in middle of cream of the crop [RT laughs]. In our introduction, that's what our director said, "You are the cream of the crop." So what does that mean?

00:38:01.970 - 00:38:14.540

I didn't even know what that phrase meant. So my seniors in second year said, "That means you are best of the best." " Oh, I got it. Okay." What does this mean? I had no idea until you start to compete.

00:38:14.810 - 00:38:31.660

There was an inherent, a built-in competition among everybody. Although we'll study together. We will sit down into late night shift to s olve problems and this and that.

00:38:31.660 - 00:38:48.470

But everybody wanted to ace ahead of the other one, because it was relative grading. You can get an A if you are the top 10% of the class, otherwise you fall. So you are always trying to, you know, we used to call it rat race.

00:38:48.470 - 00:39:06.040

And that was the most difficult part, that although I was a top class student from m y–my high school, now they are all top class sitting here. Competing with all of them, I was a merit scholar. And then you find out, "Oh, there are so many others like that." [laughs]

00:39:06.850 - 00:39:22.520

So it was a habit of competition in everything you do. But not be—not–not be ugly, you know? You would let the people, you know, your–your classmates, if you know something, you'll give them the answer.

00:39:22.540 - 00:39:35.560

It's not like you're going to hide because you want them to fail. But you will always try to get an edge when the exam–exam day comes. And that was inherent to us. But that was the most difficult part.

00:39:35.590 - 00:39:44.570

There was nobody who was second to anyone. And you had to compete. You had to compete. Other resources, unlimited.

00:39:44.570 - 00:39:57.110

You can go to swimming pool anytime, you can go to the labs anytime, you can go to library anytime and get the books. None of that was a problem. Food plenty available in the cafeteria.

00:39:57.140 - 00:40:08.900

So, this was the most difficult thing, to adapt to that. In my high school, you know, it was different. I would help everybody. Others will help me to get there.

00:40:09.230 - 00:40:23.270

But that was the high school. This was like, "If you need help, you ask me for it. I'm not going to look out to help you because I'm busy with myself." It was a different–different–different, you know, environment.

00:40:24.710 - 00:40:35.460

Yeah. The change of perspective must have been—yeah, very hard to deal with. I'm sure you see the same thing in Rice. You have very smart students. You are very smart to be in Rice.

00:40:35.460 - 00:40:53.950

And I don't know how the competitiveness is. But that's [laughs] happens everywhere. No, I think for—I think a small part it is very difficult. But I think what you said about relative grading, I know–I know we don't have

00:40:53.980 - 00:41:02.400

that much here. So, I think if we had, like, the same situation, then my experience might have been a little bit more difficult. Yeah. [laughs]

00:41:03.220 - 00:41:17.620

You still have A-plus? My—yeah, right now. Only one student gets it right? In Rice? [SJ: Yeah.] I–I don't think

00:41:17.620 - 00:41:24.070

so. I think–— Okay. They change. It's okay. Sorry, I'm digressing. No, no, no, you're–you're good.

00:41:24.580 - 00:41:38.110

So, how often were you able to visit your family? You know, I've—I've mentioned that before. I had a bike. Although my dad bought me a new bike, when I went to IIT.

00:41:40.370 - 00:41:58.340

And I could just pick up my bike and go home anytime I wanted. So specifically, I'll have dinner with my friends from the hostel. Dinner was served between, I want to say, 6 and 7 or 6 and 8. And my dad used to really work late, so any fine day I said, "I don't have

00:41:58.340 - 00:42:14.560

homework tomorrow, don't have much to do." Then I pick up my bike and go home. I'll go home and then enjoy, you know, excellent meals that my mom prepared [laughs]. So, I was fortunate. So close, only closer than those who lived in IIT campus.

00:42:14.560 - 00:42:32.890

I was so close that I could—I really asked to stay in—at home instead of the dorm, which institute allowed that time but later I found out, you know, to be able to study well, you've got to be in that environment. But I–I went home randomly anytime

00:42:33.850 - 00:42:48.850

. I went home on weekends. I come back, you know, to have some games, s ome activities. Sometimes we have exam week coming up. We used to have two exam weeks, one in the middle and–and one at the

00:42:48.850 - 00:43:01.180

end. So, we call them minor and major. So then I'll stay ho-stay there. If I didn't go, my dad will come on–on a weekend morning, walking from Green Park to IIT, and suddenly surprise me.

00:43:01.180 - 00:43:16.480

We'll have breakfast together [laughs] in the cafeteria. So–So I was fortunate to live so close that I was never too far from the family. Yeah. I think I have a similar experience being in Cypress and—

00:43:17.080 - 00:43:28.780

Yeah. See, there bike wa—then you have car here, so you have very similar—you're right. [RT: Yeah, and I think—] I hope you enjoy it right? Yeah, very much so. I think it just—it creates a space to grow freely.

00:43:29.320 - 00:43:43.970

But knowing that you [SJ: Yeah.] home is so close by, if anything. So, thinking back to your time in college, what were some defining moments that you had? You know, it was interesting.

00:43:43.970 - 00:43:58.080

I made some friends who are very—kind of influenced my timing. Computers were brand new. Computers were not the thing in the—in IIT that time when I was growing up . It was something special.

00:43:58.080 - 00:44:14.540

We'll go sit in computer center because of, you k now, it was air conditioned, only air conditioned area in the whole, maybe director's office and computer center. So I met somebody who was

00:44:15.260 - 00:44:30.770

doing MS and he was son of the head of the Department of Computer Center. I'm doing my programming, kind fellow, his name was R.K. Jain Ravi. And he would come and help me because he could see me struggle.

00:44:30.770 - 00:44:48.140

That was not my forte, I was civil engineer . And he helped me. He would take me to, you know, to the back of the room, give me access. We used to do cards that time, no, big stack of computer cards. Punch them, they go wrong, he taught me how to—or he helped me understand how they

00:44:48.140 - 00:45:03.740

went. Well, so–so that was one thing that brought me closer to computers and programming. The other was being able to be participate in NSS. You suddenly appreciated how much you have, which others don't, right?

00:45:03.750 - 00:45:17.600

And–and that's a—you don't realize it what you have at hand. You really don't. But once you see that, that was one and then eventually culminating into leadership of Civil Engineering Society.

00:45:18.520 - 00:45:35.400

I could meet our director, I could meet our head of department, I could be very close to a lot of people just because I had that t itle of secretary of Civil Engineering Society. Those things allowed me to intermingle with other–other

00:45:37.080 - 00:45:53.670

departments, you know, like, on a different level, not just one friendly level. Like the–like the secretary of Chemical Engineering Society, s-secretary of Electrical Engineering Society, we all became friends. We all would try to plan certain activities together which will

00:45:53.700 - 00:46:12.650

benefit all of us, all–all the departments or both departments or three departments, things like that. I think those type of things gave me some chance to be a leader to–to learn how to honor, how to help people, how to appreciate what they're doing for you.

00:46:14.610 - 00:46:29.680

Mhm. Yeah. So thank you so much for sharing about your college experience. It sounded very challenging, but also— Rewarding. It was rewarding at the same time. I wouldn't—I mean, if it's only beating, beating, beating, you get

00:46:29.680 - 00:46:45.820

tired, right? [laughs] There is—there is challenges and rewards and you got to have it. Yeah. For sure. So, next, I would like to talk about marriage and family. So, the first question would be: when and how did you meet your wife?

00:46:47.620 - 00:47:00.460

Well. One is easy answer. Summer of 1987, through my parents, who organized a arranged marriage.

00:47:00.460 - 00:47:14.680

And what we call arranged marriage right now, that was the only way marriages took place, right? Parents of boy, parents of girl will try to meet each other and say, "Hey, my girl, my boy is ready.

00:47:14.830 - 00:47:32.800

Are you ready?" [laughs] And–and they meet. But really, it's a longer story than that. In 1984, I came to US for doing master's in civil engineering. And with my interest in computers, I–I d

00:47:33.310 - 00:47:52.610

id a my–my–my project was a very large program which also assisted my–my professor working on an almost IBM Blue equivalent computer, which is, you know, who cares about it now—which was, which came to our campus in LSU

00:47:54.090 - 00:48:11.520

. So we—I took a break. After I got into finishing that master's, I got into computer science master's program. In '87 was my parents 25th anniversary. So I went there to celebrate their 25th wedding

00:48:11.520 - 00:48:30.390

anniversary. And right after that—I arrived two days before. We had a great family get together, you know, my uncle, my–my brother, sister, we all–we all really celebrated that together, like at a family level. Not a big celebration like we do here with hundreds and thousands of

00:48:30.390 - 00:48:47.100

people. But they had something else in mind. They had already started to look for a suitable match for me and basically said, "You are going back married if possible." They didn't enforce it on me, but they said, "You got to give it a shot.

00:48:47.130 - 00:48:56.800

You got to try hard. You are alone for three years. Next time you come, it'll be another three years. And we like to see you married when you go back." "Okay."

00:48:57.880 - 00:49:10.370

So typical method, newspaper ads, our friends—no, parents friends calling, "Oh, your son is here. Is he ready for marriage? I have a daughter," and things of that nature went on.

00:49:10.370 - 00:49:27.280

But Renu, my wife, and I met through a r egular— I believe, newspaper ad? And we had common friends between her parents and my parents. And in June of 1987, and got married less than two months

00:49:27.280 - 00:49:41.510

later. It was, you know, "Let's go meet, let's go find out, and really, hey. I'm ready. I'd like to get married to her. But does she want to?"

00:49:41.510 - 00:50:00.900

And that was tough because at that time, girls won't speak openly in—among the–among the parents. But Reno was very, respectfully open, okay. She would say—I still remember my dad asked, "A

00:50:01.830 - 00:50:18.540

re you okay marrying Sanjay?" And she goes, very quiet voice, "Yes." And head down with a, you know, a little respect for him. And so then my dad told her dad, "Why don't you ask in a different room?

00:50:18.540 - 00:50:27.570

So she's not intimidated." Her dad said, "No, she's not intimidated," but they still stepped out, talked, and came back. "Yeah, absolutely. She's a strong girl.

00:50:27.580 - 00:50:39.300

She's not intimidated." [RT: Yeah.] Well, that's how we got married. And I was going to leave. come back in August. "Oh, we need to find the right day to get married by, before he leaves." That's what

00:50:39.300 - 00:50:51.740

happened. Yeah, that's a really lovely story. So what was the first quality that you appreciated in your wife? And I know you already talked a little bit about it, but—

00:50:51.740 - 00:51:07.580

You know, I still remember that first meeting we had in her house earlier. You know, the–the way it works is parents—her parents came to meet me . And they approved of, you know, trying to go next step.

00:51:07.820 - 00:51:24.650

And I don't remember if my parents had met her yet or not. You know, whenever we met, first thing is they say, "Oh, go to a different room, talk to each other." I said, "There's no necessary, we're fine here." Anything I'll ask, she'll give it a thought.

00:51:24.680 - 00:51:38.870

It's not like, "Yes!" You know, just like, "I'm thinking with you." But she she would give it a thought. And given she was a gold medalist of Delhi University in botany, very well-accomplished person.

00:51:40.030 - 00:51:54.970

But, she'll give it a thought. Then her brother, sister will come, younger—she was also oldest in the family. So was I, but I think she also had equal level of respect from her siblings, as I did.

00:51:54.970 - 00:52:11.010

And to date I see it in both sides. And I could tell she was a role model for younger brothers and sisters. Having said that, being not erratic, being thoughtful was the—and adapting.

00:52:12.090 - 00:52:27.540

If my father's asking something, she will think about that. You know, that is the nature that I really—her q uality I appreciated. And that's what made me say, you know, you can go for anything.

00:52:27.540 - 00:52:42.960

And to top that, gold medalist from Delhi University—I mean, so many more qualities that way. But a person heart is the most important thing. With a bad heart, you can have millions of dollars, you can

00:52:42.960 - 00:52:56.850

have, you know, highest of degrees. But good heart is what I needed. That's–that's really nice to hear. So recently, what quality have you come to appreciate

00:52:57.570 - 00:53:08.510

about your wife? Oh, wow. I could write a book. [laughs] You know, our adaptive nature.

00:53:08.510 - 00:53:22.180

When we came here, I was a student on a student assistantship as a research assistant. We made very little money. Her dad was a senior.

00:53:22.190 - 00:53:40.250

I think he was general manager of a large company, Cement Corporation of India. They had car. They had, you know, nice house and everything. To come here and stay in a one bedroom apartment with me, and still be

00:53:40.250 - 00:53:59.210

happy, cook for me because she wasn't going to school that time. We–we do very small trips together, just try to enjoy what we had at hand. Adapted from such a—which I didn't know when we met—such a wealthy family i

00:53:59.210 - 00:54:13.010

nto $650 a month, maybe I got 740 that time. I don't remember. It was a kind of a transition time. Let's say 740 a month. Adapt to that much money, be able to live in this country where it

00:54:13.010 - 00:54:26.440

was brand new to her—I had lived here for three years. Trust me that I'll take care of her. And now that we have grandchildren—I'll skip all these 30 years, 35 years of marriage—we have two grandchildren.

00:54:27.220 - 00:54:38.530

Oh, my God. Our love. She gives attention. You know, all this time I saw her giving attention to kids. Our two sons all along.

00:54:38.740 - 00:54:50.500

Adapt to their need, adapt to their food. If they want it, she will do it. Now she's doing same things to the grandchildren. If–if my son and daughter in law want her to come because they need

00:54:50.500 - 00:55:06.370

help, she'll fly from here to New York just at a, you know, short notice. They need help, "I'm going." And loves them. And she takes care of her parents. So she's handling all four generation of our family.

00:55:06.370 - 00:55:16.900

One in me. [laughs] So our parents, us, our children, and our grandchildren. And I have business. I have social commitments.

00:55:17.050 - 00:55:34.700

And it would not be possible to accomplish anything without her. She's a supporting–supporting like this. You probably heard this enough from Asian-Americans but like a solid support, if want to do something with Arya Samaj if want to do something with Gandhi

00:55:34.700 - 00:55:46.820

Museum, do something at, you know, City of Sugar Land or HGH, and I was involved in many more societies before. She will be with me.

00:55:46.820 - 00:55:58.290

Not only that, she will remind me, "You have a meeting today. You have a conference call today. You have to go there today." Oh, I mean, and she'll prepare food accordingly if it's time.

00:55:58.290 - 00:56:15.560

So, I mean, it's just being adaptive, being able to—on my side, I hope I'm doing something e qual [laughs] for her. But I don't–I don't–I don't believe am. So she gives in her 120% in everything or 200% in

00:56:15.560 - 00:56:23.930

everything I want to do. And that is amazing. I took business because—we'll talk about later—because she was supporting me.

00:56:25.310 - 00:56:40.040

Yeah, no, she sounds very resilient and caring. And I think it really rings true when somebody says, like. Their wife is their better half or, like, significant other. [SJ: Yeah, that's correct.] What does your wife do?

00:56:40.880 - 00:56:57.350

She is at present professor of anatomy and physiology and—actually biology—and an associate chair in the biology department at Houston Community College. She's over the central campus biology department right

00:56:57.350 - 00:57:15.820

now. In the past, she was chair, which was a lot of work. And at my insistence, she reduced her r esponsibility to being an associate chair. And just right after that, we had grandkids. And she said this was such a good thing, that I have a little more time at hand

00:57:15.820 - 00:57:32.380

instead of, always busy. Are there any hobbies that you two share together? You know, that's funny. [laughs] If we don't, we try to add that to our hobby.

00:57:32.680 - 00:57:45.430

So one of the things is the social commitment we share together. That's more like a hobby than a responsibility. But other than that, she loves cooking, which if I stay out, is better, right?

00:57:46.150 - 00:58:01.570

We bike together on a tandem bike in our neighborhood so everybody knows us as a–as a bikers. But going back in time, you know, we love t raveling internationally. We love traveling in the US, Canada.

00:58:01.690 - 00:58:15.190

We've been a lot of places together because she'll make the itinerary. "This is where we should go next." I'll agree or disagree, and then we'll find the next place or we'll go there. And we've had some very, very beautiful trips .

00:58:15.370 - 00:58:27.560

With us alone—I mean, just two of us with family, or sometimes a few couples. So we share those hobbies a lot. I mean, this is beautiful that we can do that.

00:58:29.450 - 00:58:43.130

Yeah, the tandem bike just sounds so precious [laughs]. [Laughs] Yeah, it was–it was my way of trying to get her—I mean, she–she does bike riding fine. We have a bike at home too, which I ride alone myself.

00:58:43.340 - 00:58:51.950

That was my way of exercising. And she enjoys it, too, you know. And then swimming. Once we move to a home with swimming pool.

00:58:51.980 - 00:59:08.540

She starts to do, what is that, water aerobics ? You know, walking and things like you can–you can do to keep yourself fit. Yeah. That's very sweet. And is there any advice you'd like to share for a successful

00:59:08.540 - 00:59:24.540

marriage? Oh, boy. I–I think, you know, among Asian Americans, this is–this is common I believe, I hope—you know, patience and trust.

00:59:24.570 - 00:59:39.110

We got to take each other with a lot of trust and believe in each other. Otherwise, it's just not going to work out. If I did something, don't think I did to harm you.

00:59:39.110 - 00:59:52.890

Right? But most importantly, in my mind, take it granted that you only get married once. So even if you think it's a mistake,

00:59:54.760 - 01:00:11.590

do it to make it happen right. Whatever—two individuals are always going to be different and you got to be able to reconcile with each other, in each other. Those differences must be reconciled.

01:00:11.590 - 01:00:24.150

Otherwise, you will give yourself, you know, into a downward spiral. So I think the patience in each others doing. Trust in each other is most important.

01:00:24.170 - 01:00:40.300

But on top of all that, commitment to each other. You know, when I got—when we got married, it was a gospel that "this is it." Good, bad, or ugly, you're going to make it happen.

01:00:40.300 - 01:00:53.700

And the ugly becomes bad, and bad becomes good when you try it. But if you don't try to make it happen, it stays where it is. Not everything will be good.

01:00:53.700 - 01:01:08.640

You'll have challenges and it is better to handle that accordingly, as against, "Oh, I have a choice." So for successful marriage, you know, commitment to each other is the most, most, most important thing.

01:01:09.240 - 01:01:27.930

Other than that, what I also feel when I talk to my children, if our lifestyle is similar—okay, I'm not saying anything wrong with different lifestyles—but if I can share my plate with you, what I eat. If I can share what I believe in, then it becomes easier for us t

01:01:27.930 - 01:01:44.320

o enjoy the life together. If not, you are doing more adjustments to learn each other. And it is not to say only girl will learn what–what the guy's thing or the wife—or the husband will learn what's the wife's thing, it is just both

01:01:44.320 - 01:01:58.180

have to compromise and move forward. Yeah, well, I—it totally makes sense that marriage is a compromise and a collaboration. Yeah. [SJ: Yeah.] So talking about your kids, how–how

01:01:59.090 - 01:02:08.630

many kids do you have? And what do they do? I have two sons. Both are B.S.

01:02:08.630 - 01:02:22.590

from Northwestern University. Evanston, Illinois. They both went to Clemens High School in–in Sugarland. And my elder son is a strategy consultant advising private equity and corporate

01:02:22.590 - 01:02:37.020

clients. He lives in New York City. His wife, my daughter-in-law, is a doctor completing her REI fellowship. And they have two young children, one's two year old, two year and almost five months

01:02:37.020 - 01:02:51.480

now. And the daughter is younger. Going to be nine months next—in two weeks. My younger son is an engagement manager for an education technology company. This is kind of interesting.

01:02:51.480 - 01:03:08.340

They—it's called Guild. They collect—they connect universities with corporate b ig people like Walmart, like Cisco—I don't know all the names—to allow, to give them channel to allow

01:03:08.790 - 01:03:22.570

their employees to be educated. I think it's a very interesting process. It's a very interesting business. But I also feel like when you educate somebody or give them way to get educated,

01:03:22.570 - 01:03:35.450

it's a—it's noble. You know, nothing more noble than helping pe ople get educated. So that's what they do. He is married, living in New York.

01:03:35.480 - 01:03:52.250

No, sorry. The older one is living in New York and the younger one is not married, but he's—he likes to live in New York near his older brother and the–and the—his bhabhi and the two, n-nephew and niece . But he keeps traveling around time to time.

01:03:53.030 - 01:04:03.260

Yeah. And I think I've—I used to work at Target and I remember the continuing education programs that Guild offered. So that's very interesting. Oh! So you know the name huh, Guild?

01:04:03.530 - 01:04:12.920

Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, that–that's it. So Guild connects independently the various companies. So Target has it too—like I said, I don't know all the names, but that's wonderful.

01:04:13.550 - 01:04:31.000

Yeah. So what differences and difficulties did you find raising your children in the US? You know, it's kind of funny. You can take your children to school and they learn on their

01:04:31.000 - 01:04:42.850

own and live on their own. You feed them, you make sure they go to school in time, and that's done. A-and this is a very good education system, right? There is a school in our neighborhood.

01:04:42.850 - 01:05:01.540

They can bike, they can walk, you can drop them and that's it. But I think the main thing was how do they feel a proud Indian or a proud Hindu or a proud Jain? How do they maintain a balance between our traditional values

01:05:01.540 - 01:05:17.300

and what they are seeing in their friends or classmates? And we used to have a lot of discussion on that, to the extent that why we don't eat meat. So, and they understood why not.

01:05:17.300 - 01:05:29.660

To date, we are all vegetarian. The whole family is vegetarian. And, you know, they know Namokar mantra. They know our traditions, Diwali, puja, and all that stuff.

01:05:29.840 - 01:05:42.140

But the tough part was to get there. You know. It is–it is not easy to blend when you are already brown. You already look different.

01:05:42.170 - 01:05:54.440

You don't talk different because you are born here, but your parents talk differently, different accent. And still trying to be one of those in the c lass. So it's not—it was tough.

01:05:54.440 - 01:06:11.330

But we did our best to get them where they c an f eel they're part of the society. They are no different than other classmates, but they are diff—they understand the diversity, and they–they honor and respect the differences they found.

01:06:12.740 - 01:06:29.480

Yeah, that's very nice to hear that you guys had discussions and that you were able to see from their point of view and make sure that they understood, like, their place. [SJ: Yeah.] So what has been some of the proudest moments for you as a parent and a grandparent?

01:06:31.350 - 01:06:47.460

Well, I'm very proud of both my sons. They got excel—they excelled in education. And at the same time took our values and traditions as important in the family life.

01:06:48.920 - 01:07:07.670

We are blessed to have a daughter-in-law who shares the same beliefs come from—came from family who are vegetarian. So eating style's similar, and really, I think she goes next step in caring for her siblings, h

01:07:08.430 - 01:07:24.620

er husband, her husband's brother, us, all at the same time. She's a gem. And grandson and granddaughter being so young, they're just a joy, they are the apple of our eyes. They are pure joy to be around.

01:07:24.630 - 01:07:40.820

Like, this morning we were having a Facetime video and he wants to t ell us all about what he did. He went to play, he went to—I mean, he's not very clear. We–we–we catch, you know, his intent.

01:07:40.820 - 01:07:57.570

"Oh I went on a ship to see airplane." Because you know, it's one of those fighter ships they have very close at the Hudson Dock, w hich is walking distance from their apartment. So it's a pleasure to see how they're growing up.

01:07:57.660 - 01:08:11.440

And that's a proud moment that these two are healthy, these two are happy. But most importantly, these two little ones, they recognize us a lthough we are not with them all the time. You go there and they'll just give you a big hug.

01:08:12.010 - 01:08:26.530

It's like [gestures and laughs] bring so much joy to us. Little one watches us. You know, it's like, "Okay, I can go there because my big brother is doing this." And she's happy. She brings joy.

01:08:26.540 - 01:08:44.710

So it's just proud to see that how the p arents are bringing them up is to keep them attached to the family and not like they are different. Thank you for sharing that. So do you have any advice you would like to impart about raising

01:08:44.710 - 01:08:55.230

children? You know, what I did, what we did as husband and wife, I t hink we did well. We are not always perfect.

01:08:55.230 - 01:09:15.220

I think the—to me, if you can put a belief in the children that you will love them unconditionally no matter what. They should never feel like they are being judged on the merits . Children should never feel like, "Oh my God, if I fail, what will

01:09:15.220 - 01:09:28.660

happen?" Our younger one used to scare us time to time and it was not real scare. He was a straight 4.0 right, in Northwestern, which hasn't happened in engineering school in 25 years.

01:09:28.960 - 01:09:40.350

So, some–some subjects he will tell us, "Mom, Dad. My A is gone. I'm going to earn a B this year." Okay.

01:09:40.920 - 01:09:47.190

We will never complain. Right from day one. We'll never complain. "Do what you want to do.

01:09:47.190 - 01:10:04.800

I know you're going to do best." And then he suddenly come back [laughs]. "I made it this time." And he finished the whole thing. There was a quarter system, instead of 12 in 11 quarters. But you know, only thing we tried to tell him, I'm—I hope they

01:10:04.800 - 01:10:21.120

believe: that we would love them unconditionally regardless of what they do. Will we let them digress? Will they let them into bad habits, bad according to us? No. But we have to respect the relationship, our—sorry—relationship

01:10:22.650 - 01:10:34.460

between us. We have to listen to them. We have to trust what they're doing. They're grown-ups and just, "Whatever you do, we are with you." Yeah. Yeah.

01:10:34.500 - 01:10:51.420

I think that's very true, that family should be a place of support. Mhm. So now just to I'd like to ask you about just your opinions about young Indians, Americans growing up here.

01:10:51.780 - 01:11:10.660

So how difficult is it for young Indian Americans to grow up in a culture different from their parents, yet try to follow and preserve the family traditional values and practices? I feel like their world is

01:11:10.660 - 01:11:24.520

bigger than where we were—where we grew up in. We had, you know, looking back, I say I went to Jain, I went to Arya Samaj, I went to Shiv Temple. I went to Hanuman Temple, which was the s ame.

01:11:24.690 - 01:11:42.910

I think that was very narrow compared to what these kids, Indian Americans or Asian Americans, here are facing. They have a whole world of their school, of students who are primarily

01:11:42.910 - 01:11:57.250

Christians, of students, their friends who believe differently. Yet they have the other world, where we believe differently. We like them to be like us in some manner.

01:11:57.700 - 01:12:12.180

But it's–it's very, very tough question and without proper association, there's only so much my wife and I could do to raise them. Young Indian Americans. You can be on your own.

01:12:12.190 - 01:12:27.850

You can be in your family, but you do need a larger family. You do need a support system with associating with others. That others could be your neighbors who are also with the similar values, other

01:12:27.850 - 01:12:43.460

Indians. It could be your, you know, temple. It could be the association you belong to. And that's how you will learn. For me, when I left India, our traditions are the same.

01:12:43.700 - 01:13:03.120

So for me, as if time stopped, I took with me when I was 21 years old, whatever was happening in my family then. Today, 40 years later, 39 years later, it is very different. Similarly, when

01:13:03.120 - 01:13:20.130

my wife came, some things are different. She came three years later and she took her own time adapting to what's going on here. And when she came here she was already adapting to two families: her own, my family, and trying to bridge that gap while bridging what's

01:13:20.310 - 01:13:38.670

happening here. Put that onto–onto our children who have really two worlds to merge and I think what we can do is give them an opportunity to be exposed to it. You know, like your SAS organization, like, you

01:13:39.150 - 01:13:54.950

know, organization like Arya Samaj, Chinmaya mission, Hindu worship society, HGH who did janmashtami. I think making those associations help. But you got to find your–your niche.

01:13:55.220 - 01:14:09.350

Where is your direction? Right? To–to tell you the truth, my–my family, all–all brothers sister growing up in India, when they came here for my son's wedding in 2018, they were amazed how many traditions we followed.

01:14:09.770 - 01:14:21.470

They said, we don't do none of this in India. Over here we try to do everything we did when our marriage took place. And it was enjoyable. It was fun. It was five day event.

01:14:21.650 - 01:14:34.130

But we did all that. And we were fortunate that our, you know, daughter-in-law's family also believed in those things. But you need an association.

01:14:34.400 - 01:14:44.700

It is tough to do it on your own or just in one unit of a family. Yeah. Yeah. I really empathize with what you said.

01:14:45.960 - 01:14:57.500

I, myself, I–I grew up going to Hindu worship society, so I remember exposure played like a big part in connecting with like, the larger values and traditions. Right, right.

01:14:57.510 - 01:15:17.920

Otherwise, it becomes tough—I'm sorry, I got cut off. And then the next question is, from your children and grandchildren, do you consider the challenges faced by younger generation of Indian Americans less than when you were first emigrated to the US?

01:15:18.760 - 01:15:33.180

If so, what do you think contributed to less challenges today? Likewise, if you think the challenges are not necessarily less, please elaborate. Yeah. So I think it depends on what you consider a challenge.

01:15:33.180 - 01:15:48.740

One thing we already talked about—two worlds trying to–trying to merge and stay in the middle, right? Do both things, accept right things from both. I'm sure if you asked my children, your age group, t

01:15:48.740 - 01:16:05.900

here'll be some different answers. And I think what we've been able to instill—and I'm going a little bit to that culture and traditions—today to our children or in the last 30 years to our children, as they instill the same things to

01:16:05.900 - 01:16:21.530

their children, it will start to reduce, right, in absence of an association. Where they can go weekends to Sunday school and kind of get reinforced, sit in like-minded people.

01:16:22.760 - 01:16:41.670

At that time when I came here, the challenges were different kind. Indian culture, I didn't expect we'll have any. Just kind of work it out because American food will be the only thing available.

01:16:41.670 - 01:16:54.610

Festivals? Good luck. Do it in your own house. And really, we–we used to get together as a group. So when I came here, there was a—sorry, I'm digressing a little

01:16:54.610 - 01:17:11.420

bit. So the challenges then were g etting good food outside, otherwise, cook yourself. If we wear Indian clothes, which is all we came here with except for shirt and pant, we are looked upon differently.

01:17:13.760 - 01:17:32.900

Since then and now and even 15 years ago, a lot has changed. City of Sugarland Mayor did Diwali at the city hall, big festival in front of the city hall , you may have known or not . It was in mid—I want to say about 10 years ago, 15—10 to 12

01:17:32.900 - 01:17:50.370

years ago. Growing up in US, you know, now they have less challenge because they're learning American accent. I had the challenge to take English as a second language, try to learn the accent so people can understand me, right?

01:17:53.320 - 01:18:07.340

Wearing formal wear, you know, not at non-Indian events. Today. You can wear them casually. I remember my son wa-was the speech winner for high school s

01:18:07.340 - 01:18:20.300

tudents for city-wide speech contest. And he presented his speech at the Houston City Hall in the audience of thousands wearing festive Indian attire. Mayor was in presence.

01:18:20.660 - 01:18:37.490

It was not unusual. If I go back and do same thing at LSU, it will be looked at a little different. We had—we used to think about—going backwards, you know, what—ask other students, ask our fellow students,

01:18:37.520 - 01:18:54.320

"Is this okay to wear?" Main positive these days is availability of vegetarian food. When I came, eating out meant a cheese pizza, a bean burrito or a veg sandwich, and especially asking them, "Make it without meat, don't take it

01:18:54.320 - 01:19:09.080

out." Today a lot of vegetarian food is available. We have—vegan has become a big, big move for good health a nd also animal protection. So I think that has helped.

01:19:09.230 - 01:19:27.590

So that challenge is less, but they have the other challenges we talked about earlier. Blending the two societies together. Yeah, I think sometimes we take for granted the community that has already been built for us [SJ: [laughs] Yeah.] and what went behind like building

01:19:27.590 - 01:19:40.550

that and all the individuals. Right, exactly. But I think it's very important that you encourage your fellow students to be-become part of the—part of their community. Yeah.

01:19:40.550 - 01:19:57.170

And I definitely see that happening on Rice campus. I know that we celebrate a lot of like the Indian celebrations outside, just like Holi, like, right where everybody can see it and they can come participate, you know? Right. [RT: So—] I remember when we first moved to a new

01:19:57.170 - 01:20:10.460

house. Sorry. You know, we were lighting up our house with lights, and I used to enjoy doing that with both my sons helping, Reno helping, and we'll light up the trees and all that stuff.

01:20:10.460 - 01:20:24.770

So when we move the house, my little one says—he was only six years old—he was saying, "Dad. My neighbors—" I think Michael and my—somebody, forget the name—Peter. "They don't know what we're doing.

01:20:25.250 - 01:20:37.160

Can I write to them?" So sure. So remember, I still have that one page written. It was very simple, big letters. "We are celebrating Diwali, our festival of lights.

01:20:37.700 - 01:20:56.700

Hope you don't mind." And he put that note in a—in a–in a report cover—went door to door showing it to our n eighbors. So, because we were new in that neighborhood, we didn't want them to feel, "Who are they, what are they doing?" And he felt comfortable walking the s

01:20:56.910 - 01:21:13.790

treet with, you know, our cul-de-sac area was about 10, 12 homes. He–he showed it off, said, "this is what we're doing." That's really sweet. [laughs] So, next, I would like to talk about your immigration experience.

01:21:14.150 - 01:21:29.510

So when did you move to the US and how and why did it happen? I think I touched on it earlier. After graduating from IIT Delhi in '84, the preparation started in '83 when I was encouraged to come to US for higher studies.

01:21:29.900 - 01:21:48.170

So I got a position—I mean, acceptance in many colleges, but—many universities—but big deal was, "Do I have an assistantship somewhere?" And one of the professors in hydrology, world-renowned professor, he offered me a

01:21:48.170 - 01:22:00.020

research assistantship where I'll be working in research in the same field that I want to do my graduation in. And I came here to LSU in 19—August '84.

01:22:03.640 - 01:22:15.090

Yeah. Thank you. And so, what was your first impression of the US? It was very interesting. [laughs] I landed in JFK.

01:22:16.050 - 01:22:29.630

The airline's called Pan Am, used to give the best rates to students, and my connecting flight to Baton Rouge via New Orleans was already left. It was late. Pan Am was late. They took such a good care.

01:22:29.640 - 01:22:45.420

They gave me hotel to stay already arranged, food vouchers to use i n the hotel, transportation to the hotel, gave me d irection how to get there. And so, I tried to follow direction, get out to where I can take my t

01:22:45.420 - 01:22:59.140

ransportation. I–I don't remember if Pan Am had a bus or they arranged taxi or something. Very scared in new area with one suitcase, one roll-on, one backpack. You know, where am I going?

01:22:59.170 - 01:23:14.090

What is happening? Never been here. Very comfortably got into a hotel in Queens. I wish I had—I took that note down, but I don't know what that was. Completely confused, trying to talk to people, "Where can I get this

01:23:14.180 - 01:23:30.480

transportation?" And they don't understand my accent, but what you would not have felt, people were so caring and kind. If they didn't understand me, they'll find somebody who can understand.

01:23:30.500 - 01:23:41.440

"Hey, he's looking for something. What does he want?" And that was amazing. And so my first impression was very kind. People want to help each other.

01:23:41.800 - 01:23:51.940

Trust was a big thing. I could leave my suitcase at a point, walk somewhere. Not to worry about it being stolen. That too, at JFK, which I know now.

01:23:52.180 - 01:24:03.580

At that time I didn't know. Very bright country. Lots of lights, lots of cars, buses. So, you know, it was like a different world coming from—although I came

01:24:03.580 - 01:24:13.710

from Delhi, it was a different world. Yeah, that's nice to hear. I also just recently went to Baton Rouge and I was in the area. So yeah, it's a very—

01:24:13.710 - 01:24:24.610

Oh, wow. Okay. Mike the seventh, I think. Tiger. Yeah. [laughs] So did your family move with you ? Or I—

01:24:24.610 - 01:24:40.490

No, I came alone, I talked about my wedding afterwards. Yeah. So what were the challenges that you faced? I think it kind of goes back to some of the things I talked about earlier, you

01:24:40.490 - 01:24:56.520

know, having Indian—you know, being able to eat what I was used to eating, being able to find any groceries. But we were fortunate as came here. You know, students usually go into one,

01:24:56.520 - 01:25:12.300

one kind of a apartment complex or two. So there was a Varsity Village and a Tigerland. And I found some people who, from International Students Office, decided to host new students coming in.

01:25:12.300 - 01:25:28.240

And these were Indian students from before. And they will take care of us, they will help us find an apartment, find roommates. So three of us got into a two-bedroom, one big room, one small room apartment. And then they'll help us find furniture, if they could.

01:25:28.240 - 01:25:42.820

We could just sleep on the floor. We didn't have no money to spend on furniture. But the community's situation got resolved. At that time, there were only 180 students in the LSU, believe it or not, and they

01:25:42.820 - 01:26:01.030

will come together, have a Diwali celebration in the union. They'll also have a gala to bring in our friends and local fam—local families and so forth, where all the aunties help cook, guide the–guide the cooks, how to make Indian

01:26:01.600 - 01:26:20.870

food. But something that helped me a lot was Indian sorry—International Students Office, ISO—h ad a program called Host Family where young—where different families would like to adopt like-minded people.

01:26:21.500 - 01:26:36.220

They connected me with a gentleman, Steve Wallace, who is a civil engineer at that time practicing, and because I was coming for civil engineering. And his wife was an artist. I've lost touch with them after they moved a few times.

01:26:36.220 - 01:26:47.300

And they took such good care, they'll invite me to their home once or twice. I mean, at an event and then or–or without it. "Hey, Sanjay, you must be bored.

01:26:47.300 - 01:26:56.610

You've been alone. How's the exams?" We will talk often. Made me feel very good. They helped me introduce the American culture.

01:26:56.610 - 01:27:16.210

And help me make comfortable to–to live in this society. And that was a great benefit in addition to what I was trying to do for myself, you know, try to find Indian food, this, that. And he'll visit me sometimes from, you know, his office well, I think d

01:27:16.210 - 01:27:25.210

owntown Baton Rouge. He'll come by and say, "Can we help you with something?" Help me take groceries, my roommate groceries. So, very kind gentleman.

01:27:25.210 - 01:27:33.480

Very young. I was 21. He was probably 28, 29, recently married. They had a baby daughter, Brittany.

01:27:33.480 - 01:27:49.570

Was born, I believe, same year, a year later, after I came here. And they helped me. And they were like—I would go to Thanksgiving dinner with them. I had no idea what it is, and they say it's a potluck.

01:27:49.640 - 01:28:01.780

"Oh, I want to make something too." They'll encourage you to, you know, if want to, they'll encourage me. Same way they talked about my—you know, what we should do with our children. I remember one time I took a broccoli casserole.

01:28:02.470 - 01:28:09.520

I had to find a recipe. So she brought me a paper. "Sanjay, this is what you want to make. It's simple. It's with rice.

01:28:09.550 - 01:28:26.020

It's in microwave. I said, "Great." So they were very kind. And the community I found locally. But discrimination was a big deal in LSU—not LSU, but in the Baton Rouge. It may not be there today.

01:28:27.160 - 01:28:40.630

I was–I was sitting for a car repair after I got a car. Some gentleman comes out, you know, also waiting for the same. Talks to me very nicely.

01:28:40.630 - 01:28:54.460

Then he says, "So when are you going back to your country?" "Oh, uh, I don't know, I'm still in the second year of studies. Probably after I finish." Okay. I went to doctor.

01:28:54.460 - 01:29:06.130

You know, there's infirmary we used to call it on the campus. LSU Hospital. I was sneezing. They go, "No, there's nothing wrong. It's just allergies in here.

01:29:06.140 - 01:29:26.100

When you go back to your country, it'll be fine." So they're already–already–already telling me those things. Mhm. Yeah, well, I'm happy that you were able to find a community, but yeah, it's–it's hard to feel

01:29:26.520 - 01:29:42.930

included when there's people that don't see you as, like, a— Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure life is different 35 years later. Almost 40. Yeah. So what did you do to establish the continued sense of your Indian

01:29:42.930 - 01:30:00.150

culture and identity? I think if you go back to school, we used to find—you know, I told you what LSU Indian Association did, just 160 s tudents. But a lot of support from all the working Indian

01:30:00.500 - 01:30:12.690

community. They'll invite us at different festivals. I remember Muni Sushil Kumar came to a Jain couple. Sushil Jain. He invited me. He was a friend of my father's friend.

01:30:12.690 - 01:30:23.840

And he said, "Come on over. They come pick you up, they come drop you." But as we move to Houston, it was a different scenario. You know, lots—you know, first thing was Hindu Worship society.

01:30:23.860 - 01:30:38.370

We found the temple. Meenakshi Temple, of course, a–a gem, a gem in–in Houston. But did not know, you know, we didn't know the language. We couldn't recite the prayers, so we didn't go there.

01:30:39.190 - 01:30:54.800

But as the time grew, we could, you know, find friends and grow our own individual community and then listen to radio station every Saturday. Meena, that's music of India.

01:30:54.820 - 01:31:10.660

Oh, my God. That was the thing. And I think there used to be a TV show one hour every Sunday of some sort, and we would just stick to the TV and watch that, trying to stay connected. Always in communication with parents and family at ho-at home.

01:31:11.020 - 01:31:25.510

Because Renu and I were the first two from our families to come to US. And that's what we ended up—trying to bridge the gap. And then the rest is history. Arya Samaj Gandhi–Gandhi Museum.

01:31:25.510 - 01:31:38.980

Gandhi Library. You know, in the Greater Houston and so forth. Yeah. Yeah, it's very nice where you talked about. I know Rice also does, like—they hold—like, they do

01:31:39.080 - 01:31:50.110

a cultural fest called Dhaka where they, like—students from the SAS, they put on a show and then we also invite people from the community. So it's nice. Oh, nice. Yeah.

01:31:51.490 - 01:32:07.610

And so, were there any cultural shocks that you experienced? I think some of the things we talked about, you know, I–I m ean, I'll–I'll talk about something: we were not used to boys and girls hanging out

01:32:07.610 - 01:32:21.140

together so close. That was different. Football games was, you know, very much not like cricket. [laughs] The stadiums are way larger,

01:32:22.700 - 01:32:37.200

lots of fanfare. And culturally, I–I think grocery stores were different, you know. People so free, people so—at least

01:32:37.200 - 01:32:48.360

Baton Rouge, small town, very friendly. You cross each other, they go, "Hi." And first time said, "Why is telling me hi?" Look back, wait, no, we're going. It was just a greeting.

01:32:48.360 - 01:32:59.250

Very nice greeting. Have a good day. You know, you go to a grocery store and say, "Okay, have a good day, sir." I mean, why? But these things we got to learn.

01:32:59.610 - 01:33:09.210

This is the way of life here. Be kind, be polite. And that's what we do. So it was very, very nice to be able to handle, you know, learn

01:33:09.210 - 01:33:24.760

those things. But that was a culture shock, you know? "How are you doing?" And first question comes to mind is, "So why do you care? What do I tell you?" And you know, or I'm–I'm walking to my class.

01:33:25.180 - 01:33:35.880

Well, they don't really care. They are being very polite and nice to you. Later I found out, I said "doing well" is the good answer [laughs]. They don't need to know your life history.

01:33:35.880 - 01:33:51.850

But that was a big shocker. So, I know you talked a little bit about, like the organizations that you found in Houston. But I'd like to ask, how did you find your way to Houston?

01:33:53.160 - 01:34:06.760

So, you know as a foreign student graduate, it's very difficult to f ind work. And without green card, you know, you won't experience this, but that's how majority of our–our generation came here.

01:34:06.760 - 01:34:21.160

So I got an opportunity to work for a company who had a contract with Lockheed Martin in Clear Lake. And my friend used to work in there, too. So I said, okay, I guess I can go there.

01:34:21.190 - 01:34:32.890

It was so small. I was sixth employee. And at the time my wife was pursuing graduate students who got admission to a PhD program at Rice. So then we moved from Baton Rouge to H ouston.

01:34:33.820 - 01:34:52.290

Working with Lockheed Martin, ClearLake, and without a green card. And they were kind enough because I was c ontract, you know, and I did reasonably well that they–they supported me through any security clearances, when you're working on space station project.

01:34:52.300 - 01:35:03.070

But it could only last so long. I had to find another—that's how I found my way to Houston. Yeah. Yeah. I know don't have to experience issues with green card, but definitely,

01:35:04.030 - 01:35:14.570

like—my friends here and then my family who also want to come here, like, it's a big issue. [SJ: Yeah.] Yeah. So what about Houston? Did you find interesting?

01:35:14.640 - 01:35:25.330

These could be like— [SJ: Oh boy.] Yeah. Big city. Lots of Indian people. You could make a conversation with anybody in Kmart, in

01:35:25.520 - 01:35:37.490

Walmart—and it wasn't there at that time, to my knowledge—in grocery store. They'll tell you, "Oh, go there. That's the Indian grocery store." There was no web to advertise. There was no Google.

01:35:37.520 - 01:35:45.680

World Wide Web existed, but in a limited manner. So they'll be helpful. "Oh, come on. Let me take you there. No, I have a car. Okay, great.

01:35:45.710 - 01:36:04.580

Follow me. Or here's a direction to follow." So we would go there. And Houston was somewhat not completely new to me because from Baton Rouge our group of students would come play field hockey e very weekend there, and then a few times we'll come to play with Houston teams

01:36:04.580 - 01:36:19.820

here. So–so we knew Houston, I mean, kind of knew we always wanted to be here. And then the Indian restaurants. NASA. I mean what's a big–big thing, big accomplishment was to be able to visit NASA.

01:36:20.330 - 01:36:35.210

Oh, that's a control room for space for rockets. At that time, it was not space shuttle. Galveston. So, so close to water, which we'd never been.

01:36:35.890 - 01:36:51.230

Baton Rouge or–or Delhi alike, I mean, water was too far. And we used to travel around in my kids regularly. So Houston, we were—became annual membership of Houston Museum of Natural

01:36:51.230 - 01:37:02.870

Science, one year, Moody Gardens. So it was great. And then Pizza Hut served a vegetarian pizza with lots of veggies on which they still do. And that was a treat.

01:37:02.900 - 01:37:13.850

We could get that anytime we wanted. Lots of other cuisines. Chinese. Of course, there are different–different restaurants now, but, Chinese, Tex-Mex.

01:37:13.850 - 01:37:25.460

So like I said, I'm a foodie. Right? [laughs] Everything comes back to food. Anything that came, could give me you know, nice outing of any kind, some variety, we loved it.

01:37:25.460 - 01:37:39.670

And we saw Houston as that place. Yeah, that's so nice to hear about [laughs]. And can you—I know you talked a little bit about the communities that you found, but can you ela-elaborate on those?

01:37:39.940 - 01:37:55.030

Yeah. So, you know, what happens is, when you go to temple, you meet a lot of people, but then you get to like-minded your age group. Similarly—let me change this again, sorry.

01:37:58.340 - 01:38:13.920

So friends and I had some distant relations. So we—can you hear me okay? Yeah, we're good. Okay. Sorry. [RT: Yeah.] I can hear you fine , yeah.

01:38:14.010 - 01:38:25.200

I thought by changing, I messed up. Sorry, I hope you can cut this little section. [RT: Mhm.] So–so we—when we came here, we went to Jain Temple, we went to Hindu.

01:38:25.200 - 01:38:42.930

As we found places, we kept going. And, over time, we found out there's a lot of Indian IIT graduates here from different IITs: Bombay, Kanpur, Kharagpur, Delhi, Madras, and then we just kind of converged with

01:38:42.930 - 01:39:00.600

each other, so that's one group we are part of for 25 years. From temples to Jain Temple to, you know, you-big time participate in the Pratiṣṭhā ceremony, and my parents also visited. Then Arya Samaj, you know, it's–it's like a big

01:39:01.200 - 01:39:17.130

family and that's how we feel it. We have friends, like-minded people in different places, you know, from different sides. But, you know, when you meet people who speak your language, your–your wives,

01:39:17.130 - 01:39:32.260

both wives can get together, the kids enjoy each other's companies, those friendships grow. So these are all other Indian immigrants whose kids are around, same way as ours. And we found a community, a big supporting structure to

01:39:32.260 - 01:39:50.610

each other, and it was primarily due to religion, due to our eating styles: majority vegetarian. Some-somebody working with me became close just because we have the same background. So other communities, you know, IIT

01:39:51.220 - 01:40:08.740

group, our friend circle, Arya Samaj family where I'm part of management committee, we've been working together for the last 25, 28 years. We–we enjoy each other's company like a big family. Hindus of Greater Houston, another big organization, very nice

01:40:08.740 - 01:40:22.060

organization where we are like-minded to have platform for all Indians to be able to celebrate, and invite non-Indians to understand our culture. That's a beautiful thing.

01:40:22.840 - 01:40:41.770

Then, Mahatma Gandhi Museum, which was formerly Gandhi Library. And that's another group of friends, some overlapping in different groups, some new. So these are the primary communities connected with. There are also, you know, some groups I, you know, briefly associate

01:40:41.770 - 01:40:59.200

with, like the Maharashtrian group, like the U.P. group and so forth. But typically, these are communities we've connected well. Yeah, I really loved how you touched on, like, finding individuals that shared the same culture.

01:40:59.200 - 01:41:07.360

And I know like growing up for me, like, I would have friends and then I also have, like, the family friends that I grew up with, so— Yeah. Right. Same thing with my kids.

01:41:08.830 - 01:41:23.180

So now we're going to talk about religion and spirituality, which I know has played a large part in your life. [SJ: Mhm.] So I know—could you talk a little bit more about Jainism and the–the religion that you practice?

01:41:25.040 - 01:41:41.400

Yes. So Jainism is in my blood, right from my birth. And we practice that on an almost daily basis, reciting Namokar mantra, and understand

01:41:42.210 - 01:42:00.110

the fundamental values of truth, non-violence and being kindness to everybody. Achourya: don't steal somebody else's things. Although I grew up in a community where Arya Samaj was walking

01:42:00.110 - 01:42:15.590

distance, almost crossed every morning, going to morn-morning walk in summers. Holidays: temple that follows, you know, wisdom of the scriptures we perform Havan there. My–my fr—my–my family, my father in particular was very

01:42:15.590 - 01:42:34.850

open-minded. So he would take us to all these temples and Mount Temple, Shiv Temple, so forth. And what I practice today at home in our, you know, religion, religious events, Diwali and so forth—what we perform at home is primarily

01:42:34.850 - 01:42:47.890

Jainism, Jain, Pujas. What we do at a larger event, like a special event for my grandchildren, what—we will perform Havan.

01:42:48.280 - 01:43:07.030

If we are doing—we–we would celebrate our birthday at Arya Samaj performing Havan with Vedic scriptures. We would, you know, participate in all the activities there. So we are closer to Vedic values, Vedic scriptures

01:43:08.170 - 01:43:25.120

in most of our—but practicing both, there is no difference. You know, Arya Samaj teaches us a kind way of life. Jainism brought us the same way all the—all around my life. So there is really not a–a conflict.

01:43:25.120 - 01:43:42.740

It's more like a expansion of what I believe in, what we have grown up as and continue. [RT: Mhm.] Jainism, Ahimsa is a very interesting thing in mind, word, and deed. I am, you know, trying to be that.

01:43:42.740 - 01:44:00.080

So vegetarian is one part, but I prefer not to kill insects. You know, you see a cockroach or something in the office, I'll pick it up on a paper and throw them outside, let them in their own happy area. But stay the part of truthfulness, not falsehood, because,

01:44:00.110 - 01:44:18.100

you know, I don't know if you've heard this: What—to hide one untruth, you had to make so many stories of untruth. Fal-falsehood always puts you in the wrong place. Truthfulness, howsoever hard it may be: just stay on

01:44:18.130 - 01:44:35.650

that path. You don't have to make new stories for yourself, to–to hide what you said once because you can't remember what was false. Mhm. Thank you for sharing that. So can you talk about your relationship with Jainism

01:44:35.650 - 01:44:47.710

and how it has impacted your life? I–I think I might have touched on it already. It's–It's–It's the same thing, you know. Fundamental belief that I'm there for is vegetarianism

01:44:51.760 - 01:45:08.290

, [RT: Mhm.] emanating from Ahimsa. [RT: Mhm.] If can follow Ahimsa to is true, I'm not. Because there are things we do today which are not necessarily Ahimsa–A-Ahimsa. You know, we get our home sprayed, our offices,

01:45:08.290 - 01:45:22.930

our businesses sprayed, we got to do that. But on—on a personal level, at a family level, whatever we can. So that's been the main thing. But Satya Achourya—it's–it's one of the teachings of Jainism.

01:45:23.050 - 01:45:40.000

Achourya means don't steal somebody else's. There's also one says Aparigraha, which means don't collect [covet], have what you want, what you need, not necessarily what you want. We don't do that, I'll–I'll be honest to tell you that right now.

01:45:40.180 - 01:45:58.690

But at least the Ahimsa Satya and Achourya. I'm not going to take something from you that doesn't belong to me. It's very interesting to see how, like, your— like, vegetarianism and how it's connected to like Jainism at large and the whole concept of—

01:45:58.830 - 01:46:12.750

[SJ: Yeah.] Yeah. So what do you find most beautiful about your religion? I think if you take it down to its message, it is

01:46:12.750 - 01:46:28.790

giving you a way of life which is healthy, kind, and blissful. If you stay on that path, you can't go wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you about that. And so, can you talk about your role with Arya Samaj

01:46:29.870 - 01:46:44.230

of Greater Houston? Yeah. So my relationship started back in '94 when took my older son to learn Hindi. That was the only temple that had Hindi classes–classes then.

01:46:45.070 - 01:47:04.090

And as a result of going there and seeing what they were getting, they were also teaching Naitik Shiksha, which is moral science. We just wanted to give back in some form, so m y wife will—you know, it used to be like a potluck, I think she would

01:47:04.990 - 01:47:18.010

suggest us people, "Can I cook something? I will help clean, help the people who are cleaning." There are people who take responsibility on themselves. So kind of–kind of got engaged, involved in those type of processes.

01:47:18.010 - 01:47:30.290

But it wasn't a very light level. Although we'll go there every three Sundays of the month. Slowly, I took on more and more responsibility, starting with the library.

01:47:30.320 - 01:47:47.360

When we moved to new building from Highway six to the current location, I took over responsibility of holding programs, running the library, running the DAV Sanskriti School, special programs , so just about every aspect.

01:47:47.510 - 01:48:06.290

And about three years ago, the then-leading management decided to ask me to lead the—be the coordinator of the Arya Samaj management committee, which quote unquote, is "a president", but I've never called myself president.

01:48:06.560 - 01:48:24.960

I'm just one other volunteer trying to coordinate various activities of Arya Samaj with the help of 20 plus other couples who are all part of the management committee, hundreds of volunteers, and take responsibility across temple initiatives, you know,

01:48:26.490 - 01:48:42.910

be collaborative with everybody instead of be only an Arya Samaj [unintelligible]. So it's a–it's a family to me. It is my responsibility to do what I can do to give back, grow the children program, grow the school and so forth.

01:48:44.650 - 01:48:59.170

Yeah, that's really nice to hear. So are there any particular memorable experiences that you've had with Arya Samaj? Oh, it–it–it could be, I-I—It's very tough.

01:48:59.170 - 01:49:18.670

The best of all is, everybody has respect for each other. When we want to accomplish something, you'll find two, three, four people come forward and say: "What can I do here?" Every Sunday when we go there for service, like I didn't go there today, we'll be, you know, after eating the kitchen

01:49:18.670 - 01:49:33.950

committee who does that, there'll be people taking out trash. We don't have workers, to pay somebody to take trash. Not that we can't afford, but they call it Seva: we have to give back in our way.

01:49:34.250 - 01:49:53.210

And a cohesive family atmosphere, and extended family with whom you can celebrate with, who you can cry with, whom you can enjoy, you can play, have fun together, eat together : that's what is the most memorable about this particular organization, Arya Samaj of

01:49:53.210 - 01:50:06.980

Greater Houston. Yeah, I think that speaks very true to Arya Samaj. And also I know my own experiences with Hindu worship has been the same, like with my parents volunteering [SJ: Yep.] And, like, afterwards, like they

01:50:06.980 - 01:50:22.490

would make chai and everything— Right! It's very rewarding to be able to do something. So true. So is there any—something you wish to impart on the next generation of Jains?

01:50:23.660 - 01:50:37.730

I think. You know, there's a saying called "No Free Lunches." When we go to temples, they're all —they're really free lunches. I would say don't take them as free . See what you can do for them.

01:50:38.090 - 01:50:54.840

How you got here? How you can help others get their–get their benefit. So give your part, give your little bit of part to give back to who's giving you so much.

01:50:56.730 - 01:51:09.180

That's very beautiful, thank you. So I know you've transcribed something for HAAA . [SJ: Yeah.] Yeah. So that was written in Sanskrit.

01:51:09.180 - 01:51:24.480

So can you talk about how you came to know the language and what values it has added to your life? See in the—back in school, from sixth grade to 10th grade, Sanskrit was a subject which was one

01:51:25.050 - 01:51:41.570

required from 6 to 8, but I continued to learn through 10th grade. When this little tapestry was sent to me, I don't remember who forwarded from Dr. Chao, I said, "Oh, I know this.

01:51:41.570 - 01:51:55.200

This is Namokar Mahamantra." And that's the—that's the one mantra every Jain recites. It's called Maha mantra. You know, you are in fear, you recite it.

01:51:55.200 - 01:52:09.600

You are—you know, you are in pleasure, you recite it. So it just gives you a lot of solace. So when they wanted the engraving to be translated, so I asked, "You want just the meaning?" Said, "Anything you can do will be helpful in English."

01:52:09.900 - 01:52:24.420

And I know at Arya Samaj we make the—we have books. We have done transliteration and translation. I felt like I can translate this, but it will be nice to get transliteration so we can—people can learn pronunciation.

01:52:26.710 - 01:52:43.480

Sanskrit is an extended Hindi alphabet. Actually, it's the other way 'round: Sanskrit is an ancient language, Hindi came out of that. So reading Sanskrit script is easy. Namokar Mahamantra is what I grew up with.

01:52:43.510 - 01:52:53.530

I know the pronunciation. I know everything. I know the meaning. So it was an honor and privilege to be able to translate that–that tapestry, which is beautifully done.

01:52:53.890 - 01:53:11.980

So, you know, that's how, you know, Sanskrit is in all our scriptures. So, I'm not going to say I know all of Sanskrit; it's just that it makes it easy to pronounce what mantra I'm speaking. It's easier when we understand when Acharya ji or one of

01:53:11.980 - 01:53:29.920

the learned people explains the meaning of that mantra. So that has made me closer to our scriptures. If I didn't know Sanskrit enough, I had not learned this from growing up, recitation of mantras, let it be Ramayan, let it be Geetha

01:53:29.920 - 01:53:48.020

, let it be, you know, Bhaktamara throat and so forth. All the Indian—I mean, Jain scriptures, Vedas. Veda is something I've studied least, but of course in pieces we have. So that's made an impact on life to make what I am, be able to do the

01:53:48.020 - 01:54:07.610

best. If you don't know the language, you stay very far away. So Hindi is primary, but because Sanskrit —Hi-Hindi came out of Sanskrit in some form, although true Hindi people will say that's not true. But in my mind that's how I was able to learn Sanskrit and

01:54:07.610 - 01:54:17.900

transcribe—I mean find. So I did some research on getting the right transliteration and translation. But translation was easy because I knew the meanings. Yeah. Yeah.

01:54:17.900 - 01:54:24.470

We're so grateful for you having translated. [SJ: Not a problem.] It was a privilege and an honor. Yeah.

01:54:25.250 - 01:54:40.760

So now I'd like to talk about your career and go deeper into your community involvement. So I know you've touched on some of the jobs you've held, but if you could just give a short overview of the different jobs that you held during your life.

01:54:40.970 - 01:54:54.650

So I–I started at Lockheed Martin as a database analyst creating databases for space station. Soon I went into finding a job who will sponsor me in H1 and eventually Green Card.

01:54:54.830 - 01:55:08.880

I got an opportunity with a company with —which was developing chemical engineering software for plants. Whole new experience. Then the company had worked on funding and so forth.

01:55:09.360 - 01:55:20.130

It was slowing down. It was, you know, laying off people. I was not one of them, luckily. Some of my colleagues went to a different company in health care, IT.

01:55:21.120 - 01:55:40.080

They said, "Sanjay, you want to come here?" I said, "Sure, I'll go for interview." I got an offer to join them as a software engineer or software analyst, something like that. I joined that, and we worked on various healthcare software, starting with, you know, just common software

01:55:40.110 - 01:55:58.920

, then with anatomic pathology packages, lab packages, radiology package. And then that company went under: we had a lot of layoffs, I wasn't laid off. [laughs] And another company called ADAC bought us and they put me responsible to build radiology information system

01:55:58.920 - 01:56:11.600

with imaging. It had never been done before. I got a chance to work with IBM team, to work on digital imaging to send them across the web for reading.

01:56:12.080 - 01:56:31.580

Primary project was for military: to be able to send—Gulf War was going on at the time we got this project—to be able to send images from Gulf on ships to Walter Reed Hospital in DC so they can be read and diagnoses can go in

01:56:31.790 - 01:56:47.280

the—and the troops can get good care. Big project. Then we were bought by a company called Cerner, very big company. Progressing in the direction and my–my role as

01:56:48.120 - 01:57:04.860

Director of Engineering, Director engineering development at Cerner, I grew that product further to bring it to commercial installs—commercial setting. And that's when I retired from Cerner after 13

01:57:05.310 - 01:57:18.600

years in that company in the role of health care IT expert. Enjoyed the role tremendously, worked worldwide, and then came into my business. Yeah, Thank you for that.

01:57:18.600 - 01:57:33.030

And so, can you talk about your current career as an entrepreneur and franchise owner? Yeah. So–so what happened was in that–in that role, I was working very hard.

01:57:33.270 - 01:57:49.510

Well, I always work hard, I'll give you that. But I was working away from home. And in 2004/5, I realized, oops: "My sons are going to grow and I won't know what they're doing."

01:57:50.530 - 01:58:08.800

So I–I had friends who were in the franchise business already. Talked to them, "How do I get in there?" One of the very kind gentlemen, he said, "Okay, let me get you in there." He guided me, he helped me through all the way. And that's when I got into Subways.

01:58:10.690 - 01:58:29.410

And although it was not according to Ahimsa, my dad was like, "You're going to serve meat." And, but—to me, I'm serving a product to what? So it is–it is tough to get in that business in terms of getting in

01:58:29.410 - 01:58:47.740

there, spending the money to buy some locations, but in addition, you know, against your basic principle, right? So then—that brought me closer to the family, I could stay home, that was the primary goal : help, work with the family

01:58:47.750 - 01:59:09.200

, be here instead of being away all the time and–and still work hard. It's a big learning experience, but I did it. Then when the time came, I–I took other brands which are really towards Ahimsa, including Massage Envy, which is all about

01:59:09.200 - 01:59:20.790

service. So I believe in good service. That's basically it. Yeah, that's very interesting to hear about how you balanced your career and also your religious beliefs.

01:59:20.810 - 01:59:36.050

Thank you. So can you describe—can you talk about why you took a role in the Building Standard Committee and how this allowed you to get involved in Sugarland? Oh, very—yeah.

01:59:36.050 - 01:59:46.010

Thank you, thank you, very interesting. See, I'm—my background is civil engineering, right? I love the city I live in. And there was a program called Sugarland 101.

01:59:47.180 - 02:00:05.330

I attended that for 12, 13 weeks to learn all about how city works. Then I thought I should do something, so I took Police Academy course,they had a volunteer program where they need people who can come man phones and so forth. Then I went to Fire Academy and got to know city officials well.

02:00:06.380 - 02:00:19.670

But being a civil engineer, my interest was what can I contribute? This is all volunteer work here there. A position came up in Building Standards Commission, which really aligns with civil engineering.

02:00:20.150 - 02:00:35.340

So because we look at quality of buildings and there's problems and all that stuff, enforce the standards. And I participated in adopting new building standards which are adopted by Texas State for a long time and Sugarland was behind.

02:00:35.360 - 02:00:50.160

So when I applied, I was accepted, and then I took a little break for a few years, I got very busy with my home construction, all that. And then I got back there two years ago. And I enjoy my time there.

02:00:50.160 - 02:01:05.330

I get to meet city officials, I get to contribute in various areas, you know, different task force. Like a mobility task force we just finished in two months ago. So it's–it's enjoyable to give back to the city in some way.

02:01:05.480 - 02:01:19.170

Same thing I said before: you know, if y ou—if you're–if you're getting something, see how you can give back in your own way. And that's one of the ways I give back. Yeah. Thank you for that.

02:01:19.770 - 02:01:34.530

I know—I know you also talked about the Gandhi Museum, so could you just talk—the Gandhi Museum and Hindus of Greater Houston? Could you elaborate on that and your involvement? Oh, boy, it's a long story, but I'll try to cut short.

02:01:34.530 - 02:01:45.960

Okay. It's been a long time and you're very patient with my stories. You know, life at six—for 60 years. Life's long, right? It was very interesting.

02:01:46.230 - 02:02:01.680

We were having—I used to represent Arya Samaj of Greater Houston, this was about eight, nine years there. We had started a community Montessori school at that time. And I took upon myself to how we can publicize, bring more

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information about it to the pub—to the Indian community. It's–it's a remarkable school with our motto being academic excellence with spiritual growth. So, you know, ICC holds the

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programs for Independence Day and Republic Day. I believe one of those two were held in Astro Arena, now Reliant Arena in the Reliant Stadium area. And next one was held in Bear Creek Park because they couldn't find something

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else under the tent or their sheds and so forth. So I went there with the Arya Samaj booth with primary focus on having kids games. Kids can play and lots of those things.

02:02:51.090 - 02:03:04.470

Two booths down was Mahatma Gandhi Library, where I met Atul ji and Sulekh uncle—Sulekh Jain—wearing Gandhi caps. Said, "Oh, who are you?" I kind of met them. There were two doors, two booths down.

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So it was nice to meet your neighbors here t here, I met them. Then I had to get some books and materials who somebody brought to the outside. They couldn't bring the car here, maybe my wife brought it.

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I–I, like, "Well how do I go there." And Atul ji saw me, said, "Looks like you're busy with something. Can I help you?" And I said, "I have to go get something." "Don't worry, I'll man the booth. What do you want me to tell "Give kids these colors and color sheets and let them

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know what—give them the brochure on Montessori school." "Okay." I went there , got the stuff, put it out of here, and then it was just a instant connection. He said—then I got to know more about Gandhi Library at that time Mahatma Gandhi Library

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, their monthly book club and so forth, and their competitions. He asked me for some help or some part—not real help, some participation in those programs. And I was happy to do that.

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That's how the association started. Slowly I became, you know, into managing the programs that we did, the competitions we did, finding the venue like Arya Samaj to hold speech competition and things of that nature.

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And slowly, you know, we are best of friends. Lots of other people from Arya Samaj are part of the board. And we, you know, we're building a world class museum in Houston, one of a kind outside India.

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And we hope that will take people out there. Yeah. Thank you for that. So how did COVID 19 impact your interactions within your community and in your roles in these?

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Yeah, so it's funny. It was difficult for everybody across the globe. Incidentally, that same January, I was assigned responsibility to manage Arya Samaj, you know, management committee, be the coordinator.

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And so we suddenly became more tech savvy with YouTube, Samsung, with Zoom and so forth. And now our weekly events go there. One good thing that happened: my younger son moved back to Houston from New

02:05:26.400 - 02:05:43.060

York, and my first grandchild was born in December 2020. So we could–we could go there, but stay put. We–we could no longer interact with people but talk to them on phone.

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Some people have work—our friends, you know, but we won't go to their house. It was a big impact, social impact. But think Zoom and so forth brought us closer. We've always been a part of DAV

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school with Arya Samaj. And at least go-going remote allowed us to bring that school to the world. So we–we started a program called VSS Global: Vedic

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Sanskriti School Global, which is all online so people from across the world can join. But typically they were mostly from North America, almost 200 kids, of which half were–half were from Houston. So I think you can take it with a-as

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a problem. I think we did, and we found an opportunity in it to improve ourselves. Yeah. It's very nice to hear how like an event that separated all of us, but ultimately it brought us together in many ways—

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Brought us to different ways. Yeah. So what are some short-term and long-term goals that you hold for the future? I think long term, I pray to God.

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I stay healthy for as long as I live. Or pass away instantly. But whatever that life is, continue my–my–my community service, service to our religion, service to our values, traditions in

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particular. And hopefully my kids can take over my business in five years or so when I'm 65 to 70, be able to retire. Retire doesn't mean sit at home. Continue my community activities with City of Sugarland, with Arya Samaj, with Gandhi

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Museum. And maybe there will some other things that'll come up which will interest me to grow DAV Sanskriti school, you know, growing it more globally and so forth.

02:07:43.760 - 02:07:58.730

Thank you for sharing that. I have one of–one of the longer questions, but reflecting—but from what we observe in the Asian American communities in Houston, although there are cultural centers, language schools and religious

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teachings helping—to help engage and educate Asian Americans with their cultures and traditions, we tend to see more active participation from adults than younger generations. What, in your view, is the future outlook of those organizations as

02:08:16.920 - 02:08:27.510

well? Very, very, very good question. I think this is what we talk about all the time. The future of these organizations, including those I'm involved in,

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is the next generation. We have to find a way to connect the next generation. Talk to our younger parents whose children come to school. You are the future of our Arya Samaj.

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Join, give back. I don't use that particular phrase, but connect yourself. Be more closer part of this family. Our organizations will live very long, they are deep

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rooted: I'm not talking about just Hindu, all Asian American communities. There are Chinese churches. There are so many other cultural things that go on in Filipino School of Music.

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And I–I know what so many because, you know, we–we get them together for our major events for the museum. But they—we have a desire to make this a successful thing.

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That's why you see more adults. We are able to have younger generation connect in some and they are flourishing. You will see around there are some organizations where succession is happening fast.

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I think we don't want to do it too fast; we want to give them time to adapt, we then give them time to be comfortable. But that is very, very critical. To have the next generation take over and step back.

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[RT: Mhm. Yeah.] You know, my older son was here. He—whenever he was working any Sundays, he'll be in Houston he will–he will give his time to Arya Samaj. "I'll go do audio, video.

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I'll do something." But that was just that window. We need people in that age group and older who can be committed, who can be part of this, who can bring more people from their high school, from their workplaces.

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"Hey, this is a great place to be there." And think about, "I'm going to commit," not just be there when told to do something, "I'm commit to taking care of it." Yeah. Yeah.

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As a young adult myself, I think we have a lot of moving parts, so it's a little bit more difficult to fully be able to commit. But yeah, [SJ: Yeah.] I think the future of these organizations are going to be very strong and they're going to evolve with the generations.

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And I agree with you, you got so many moving parts. That's why I said don't—even a little bit you give back, a little bit you do is worth a lot, which you don't realize, but we appreciate it. And your adults are there to guide, to help, to take, you know.

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Yeah. Thank you. So what types of activities are specifically designed towards young Indian Americans at the organizations that you're involved in?

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So I'll–I'll start with Arya Samaj. We started a group called Arya Yuva Mandal. Which is "By the Youth, For the Youth, Of the Youth," right? And th-the idea is for them to be involved, expose

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them to community service. Expose them to our—I mean, primary focus is expose them to our culture and let them understand the tradition, but at the same time give back. This is the biggest force we have, and I always commend them.

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Any event that takes place, you see our youth, high schoolers doing all th e–all the work. A lot of heavy lifting. From cleaning to set up, from decorations to greeting people , so–so that's activities we are setting up for

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them. Go to Gandhi Museum: we've had these community wide contests since 2004, I believe. So it's going to be, you know, 20 years next year. And those competitions are not just for young Indian Americans,

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but my son, other–other grown up kids can help organize them. And this is one organization which can really take a lot of help from the–from the children.

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Because, you know, and if they–they–they feel good. We also put a program together where for service hours they can get presidential awards by reaching certain levels. You attended Janmashtami.

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I hope you attended some in George Brown. Beautiful program, all the young people come together, they enjoy Garba till midnight and and after. Uh Hindu youth awards is particularly for Hindu

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youth who are excelling in their community service. These things, if you start to think about them, "How will I get this award?", you will communicate, you'll– you'll–you'll connect into the organization yourself. But really with the–with the contest and with the

02:13:30.960 - 02:13:44.730

Arya Yuva Mandal, we're doing Meals on Wheels service on Thanksgiving. We, you know, so this becomes a very very interesting topic. Or a–or a project for them to go to. Yeah. Thank you so much.

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There are so many different ways that you're engaging the youth. So in the last leg of the interview, I would like to–like to talk about just opinions on identity. So the first question is, how do you find a balance between these different aspects of

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your life, such as your knowledge and practice of Jainism being a business owner and your involvement with the Indian community? You know, it's a old saying. Bite what you can digest, right?

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And in Hindi is called Utte panv pasariye jitti lambi Saur. So take the covers, keep your feet under the covers, otherwise you'll catch cold. Now, basically, I'm involved in a lot of things, and thanks to my wife, who's always behind with me in helping.

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But that also Jainism is on daily basis, you know, events, family events, family festivals, we do Jain pujas. To separate, it's all about priorities. Today I'm, you know, doing one thing, tomorrow I'm working with Arya

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Pratinidhi Sabha, Arya Samaj. We have a schedule of meetings at City of Sugarland. I've logged them in my calendar to avoid conflicts. And sometimes you can manage conflicts.

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Sometimes you say, "What is more important among these conflicting priorities or conflicting events? Conflicting things that I should pay attention to." So this is how you live your life, you said, "I have a lot of moving parts." You got to

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study for exam tomorrow. You're going to focus on that particular subject as against going into something that will be in next week or a week later. So it's about priorities.

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Everything in life is placed in time. If it's Diwali program, if it's Holi program, I got to pay attention to it, give my 120% there. Being able to go, you know, offer a lot do on Mahavir Jayanti

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is very important; that happens only once a year. So time is limited, but you can only do it based on what your priority is. I take time out of my business, but then I focus on business a hundred

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percent when it's needed. Sometimes when it's not needed, it's my livelihood. That's how I grew up, my family. So it's not a job; it's my life

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and just manage the priorities. I mean, that's all I can say. But what I have done with all organizations, which I—which I have attended or worked with: to develop processes.

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You know, so many things I did years ago are still being followed: our scoring rubric, our, you know, program guideline, how to–how to fit the program into hours, 1.5 hours, whatever. So we try to do that manageable, but everything

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has to be done in time, managing the time. Yeah. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on that. So I know you've talked about some of the Asian American and Indian American communities, but can you elaborate on that?

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I think what we have discussed so far—I think the—generally, my feeling is the Asian American communities, including Indian Americans, are very well respected. We are generally, you know, professionals, business owners

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kind in general, very rarely involved in criminal activities and so forth. I won't say not at all, but ten years ago I could say no criminal activities with Indian Americans, where we have initiated.

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But, and we–we respect each other. All the organizations, temples work together. You've seen–you've seen Janmashtmi program, you've seen Indian Culture Center program. We work together.

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We–we–we honor each other. And I've gone far enough where we interacted with some Asian American schools to bring them to the competitions. So it's not just for Indians, it's citywide,

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and to preserve our culture is the language, is the food—I come back to food all the time [laughs] and our–and our behaviors. Mm. It's really nice to see the interconnectedness.

02:18:24.210 - 02:18:37.850

Thank you for that. So what are your hopes for the Asian American and Indian American communities in the US going forward? You know, generation by generation, things start to–to

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go lesser and lesser. I hope we find these places of worship, places of social interaction, which continues to bridge—now continues to preserve our culture and traditions.

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Have a place where not just our next generation, but the third, fourth and fifth generation, we touched on that before, have a place to be imparted that knowledge. And honor what they are, respect what their legacy

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is. Otherwise they'll just think it's a festival and we're done. Holi is not just a festival of colors; there's more, more behind it. And you probably know that Diwali is not just food and food and clothes or gifts.

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It's more than that, so there are good values behind it. And these places of worship, the places of culture preservation, are going to bring that, keep that here so our future generations can do it.

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My hope is this continues as well it is today with future generations. Yeah, hope to see the same. So do you have any advice for—for people interested in

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bridging cultures and nations? I think, you know, White House celebrated Diwali. They also celebrated many events. I think when you respect each other, that's the best way to bridge.

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You don't just go there and say: "Let me tell you what Bible says" without being able to open to listening to what Gita says. You don't just go say "Gita is the only thing that's right." Well, Gita is what we believe is right.

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We follow it. Bible you believe is right. Let's talk about what are the positives of both. Every religion, every culture has positive things they want to

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teach. And only when you–you embrace your motherland and the– the country or the community you live in, both with open arms, you can bridge that culture and nations together.

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Beautifully said. And so, one of the last questions I have is, what do you regret and are most proud of over the course of your life? Which one should I take first?

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See, regret is primarily due to, you heard the saying, "Hindsight is always 20/20," right? [RT: Yeah.] But you don't have a crystal ball to see the future, right? So if you would go back and do something different, you'll get a

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better answer. You believe it? But if you count your blessings and thank God for what you have, you don't really regret, regrets would be minor.

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"Oh, I missed my flight today because I did not take the right parking spot." Next time, don't repeat that mistake. I'm just kidding, okay? It didn't happen with me, but because I've traveled today.

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So if you learn from the mistakes, and don't repeat them second and the third times. You have no regrets in my mind. Okay. But if you repeat, do everything you've always done and not improve from

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your mistakes, you'll have regrets. So I believe on the other section what I'm proud of: I believe God has been kind to me. I wanted to change from such a beautiful

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job developing all this software for medical needs. Very noble to be able to send images across the world for reading and so forth. Very proud moment. But more rewarding is my family.

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Where they are today? And both kids have done good education, they're keeping up the values. And grew generation of a lovely daughter-in-law.

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Now we are blessed with two beautiful children. I get smiles, you know, when I think about them. And these two grandchildren are love of our lives. So as a grown-up adult, what do I want?

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I have money to put food on the table. I have a house to live in. I have a very good family who cares about each other. Family grew with the addition of an equally loving child who is now part of our

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family. And, you know, we're keeping a good bridge between our culture and life in the US. We're not drifting away in one direction or the other, which I think will be injustice to either India or America or–or, you know, culture here and

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culture from our families. So I think that's what I'm most proud of, be able to accomplish what we have. And God allowed me to change my career and still–still be successful.

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Yeah. I think over the course of the interview, your life has painted a very full and complete picture and I'm happy to hear that, so— [SJ: Thank you.] Before I end the interview, I would like to ask, is there anything you would like to share that you felt that was not went over

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in the interview? You know, 60 years of life is very long. I truly appreciate how much research you did prior to in finding these questions. It's not easy to know this person, you know , you just came to know of a name

02:24:27.360 - 02:24:35.550

back in March, was it? Or early March or something? So I–I applaud you. You've done a great job with it.

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We had a good conversation. I love it where we are. And, you know, you kept smiling all the way despite my treacherous stories and the time we've taken.

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I hope people take this 2.5 hours and actually make use of some parts of the interview. But it's gone very long compared to where I've seen others. All I'll say is if I've repeated myself a few times, you know, take time to trim it, make it more reasonable for

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people to learn, people to listen to me, not learn. I mean, I'm much younger than what you have there, but there's always something to share, so I think I've shared a lot of my life story. Happy to be part of this process.

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So blessed to be able to translate and transliterate that one little —and it is very important Mahamantra for Jains and I'm glad I came in touch with Dr. Chao, who, you know, basically offered me to do

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this. Hopefully this is inspiration for future generations. Thank you very much. Thank you. And I would just like to say I'm equally as grateful for this opportunity and to have to be able to listen and learn.

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And I think what you said about not just taking but taking, not just taking, but being able to give in return, that's very beautiful. And I'll definitely carry that on with me, too. [SJ: Thank you.] But...