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Today is August 25th. If today is August 25th, this is interview number 51. Doctor Roy Talmage in his office, 315 mile LA. The time is 330. Now, 50. Down to zero. Your regular conversation, not ro be counted. And at the moment I have to because I

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moved out of my college. Well, I didn't get any registrations but you have to get your voice on it too, don't you? Right. Um, ok, let's try to fix the setting up Thomas and see how it works. Ok, I'm Roy V Talmage, former Master of Wise

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College. Now, with no address since I'm living in Washington. Got it. I think that might be better. Well, in the way of, uh, getting, uh, acquited on this project. Doctor, tell me I had indicated that what we're looking for are the eyewitness accounts of this event.

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Uh, just to start out. Uh, could you tell me what your reaction was your personal reaction to, uh, the news that the committee had actually, uh, in their selection of the president? Well, as far as I can remember, my personal reaction is me surprise. Uh, I

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don't remember what time during the day, we actually heard that he'd been appointed, but very sharply, it must have been in the morning because, uh, it was a topic of conversation my colleague knew and one of the things that really surprised me, that news was that

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all the boys we talked to that I talked to at the table much what face with the and, uh, between nine and 3:30 p.m. there was a complete turnover. And even those boys that would kind of like the idea and thought he'd make a good question.

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By 330 he had a complete different idea. How do you feel for the, when I was convinced that uh that that some young faist had gotten, they had heard the factor reaction. Basically, I am convinced that the students play no part in it other than the

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vocal part and that their students actions had nothing to do with the decision that this was a faculty matter completely and the students reflected the faculty and students reflected first one thing after they heard, well, one, a group of young faculty and then of course, as

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the overall faculty opinion came out, I'm pretty sure, but it's very obvious that they actually took on stronger much all reaction. And the thing that that bothered me about the students is that they thought they were doing it. The fact is I was uh told by

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several students how much they appreciate it. The faculty was supporting him? I see. Uh don't you really have this in reverse, this is a faculty matter and you do this to support the faculty. Uh But the students in their enthusiasm, of course, have to have something

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to do all the time when they, when they grab them all the major problem, in my opinion, with uh the way it was happening. And to me, the biggest mistakes that ma has been made was his refusals are whether we did use it or whether the

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circumstances dictated it. I don't know. But the fact that he did not talk to the fact that he, uh I felt that the fact that he did talk to back indicated to me that he really didn't knew he didn't have back more makes that uh because

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the students uh would not have uh, well, they had nothing to do with it, but they were the ones we met with all night long and they came back and made the report. He should have left my opinion. Now, what it would change. I don't know.

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But uh right after he had his first talk with students, he should have left them and said, OK, I've talked to you now, I'm gonna go to the factory and the whole thing was taking the construction now, why he didn't do it. Uh I don't know.

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I've known Bill for years. I was Matthew Ma about on the way I did. I have great admiration. Uh My uh my own feeling on the subject was that Bill must have had in his tour as either probably a tour at d he had made sufficient.

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Uh What would I call me? But there are deficient people of senior level across the board who apparently were not happy with the way treated them as being or any reactions or what it was that turn this group against it. And this is the group which

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I was not a member of people. I had nothing to do with any master and I'm a master or Texas. But the fact that he had this broad based senior people who were not liberal or conservative, uh, just across the board, senior people mostly in humanity

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and what gets to bother me. Why? And it was that, that for that reason that I felt that you didn't have the support of the senior people in humanity, his position as president. That's possible. It was my opinion breasts shortly after the whole thing went on.

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That's because of this, not because of the students at all, because of his reaction across the board. We see new people that has been, why not come. Now, of course, this strong coalition was joined by a group of young exactly who were concerned with the way

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it was done. They thought that this was uh not the way a person should be chosen. I don't have to believe in that. I'm, I'm of a conservative of the old time school that I think is actually more trustee has the right to choose the president,

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uh that the board of trustees has the right to decide what kind of school it's gonna be. This is my present. The fact, uh I was deterred that they apparently bypass but not, I wasn't perturbed that it had been that they, uh I thought they had

00:07:09.600 - 00:07:30.130

the right to buy back or, uh but the second group of factors, join them, joined them on what they call principles. I don't know if you talk to doctor Phil me, you have to lock on Baker. He's on my list. This is basically the uh the

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thing he gave. He did. No, Mason, but he didn't approve of the way he's done. Well, I didn't really approve of the way it's done. Uh I, I felt that somewhere somebody missed both and that most of the person uh max and want to be present

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so bad that uh by past what he knew was a difficult way to do it. He knew that even though that he had sent a group of people who were not born and I, I kind of feel that if they done it differently, you could have

00:08:05.980 - 00:08:27.140

been expected so badly wanted to impress he was refer to court, knew that you thought that he was on the committee for the last president. And I'm not looking, you know, I serve together in the reflection of the director I think, and as a member of

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that committee, the two of us together, we knew what our relationship was going to be. We knew that we didn't, that we were not a voting member just, but we also knew that the blood disease was free doctor. But any time they have cancer, they talk

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to, we never voted that they would kind of say, do you move or not? But we had basically a lot of say we've done at that time. I think I got a meeting tomorrow that we found them in the election, that the board of trustees would

00:09:04.669 - 00:09:22.530

not have taken anybody if this committee has been against me. And I thought that Masterson knew all this, knew how it was happening. And I think Masterson was a little afraid that there was in the committee. I was not. No. And he was afraid that there

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was opposition. Therefore, he did this cut the, according to me. And when he came here, I uh ok, if he talked to the factory and he could have gotten the factory before instead, it was to be that serious. Would that make it back to that grab

00:09:53.599 - 00:10:19.530

something that you? But they had nothing to do with this. II, I know and my de to, but I don't think the D is in it. Yeah, just the coalition fact. Now when the, on the, on the final vote I voted uh against me and I

00:10:19.539 - 00:10:42.489

voted against it. For that reason. Why did he have such strong feelings? Uh, senior fact member, liberal and conservative factories. I didn't know I'd be good master and cardboard. I thought he was an extra master. He ran his college where students really, like, uh, yeah, not

00:10:42.539 - 00:11:09.539

as many more paper. You wouldn't know it. I don't think, by talking to the staff. But I think that because they, their opinions changed, uh, with the class the student is basically in, in an college record. For, imagine, I think it does to come out. Yeah.

00:11:09.549 - 00:11:35.580

To ST what, during that time they were here, he was here on created. Most of the students are talking about principal. Lot of, and most of the students talk about the principle of how he did failure. And uh this is right. It wasn't a communicate but

00:11:35.590 - 00:12:02.940

he was the man for university now. And I try to go to the because having been a strong basis and having antagonized such a strong group of younger, I felt it. Ok. How do you count, uh, in your own mind for the, uh the disenchantment of

00:12:02.950 - 00:12:25.880

the uh senior class? I don't know. Uh I do by talking to people in the humanities even when he was being. And what happened to you that there are a lot of people in human develop that give administrative methods. Well, pretty rough shot. He wanted something,

00:12:25.890 - 00:12:45.169

he just pushed them up. This is confidential. Yes, it was not sensible. To uh even members of the committee uh until the whole project was open. One of the, one of the typical things that I felt that turned a lot of the people. So, yes, there

00:12:45.179 - 00:13:09.599

such thing as almost 107 was the fact that he got rid of that. Mosh, I don't believe Doctor Marsh was up and coming young. Very nice. Those common, he ran against administrators because administrator, nothing to do with intellectual administrator, but he ran against, they clashed and

00:13:09.650 - 00:13:35.390

that and stuff that ma I this is frankly, frankly, she was one of my associates and not being, what is you were just saying that this uh 3rd March uh Marsh, Ma RSH, Ma RSH. Uh it was an administrative problem. Thad Marsh was a system suppressant

00:13:35.400 - 00:13:54.159

and also an English professor Leo Masterson was pre faculty. I'm a need of humanity and they clashed and most of us felt that the reason that March left was because of this. I think this was one of the reasons the Danish Department so set against it.

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Now, this is the only instance I know myself but I si just feel that there must have been some other type of this type of uh rather uil land or action on these bonds uh that may have helped. Yes, please. In the amount trial, I never

00:14:13.119 - 00:14:33.020

could figure out why the chemistry problem. They were also because the young man pick it up. It was cause backwards. What was it, do you think the young faculty had against him? Is it anything personally, I think, was it just due process alone, due process? Young

00:14:33.030 - 00:14:56.140

fact picked it up as a tall about to do in street process that they had bought and the combination of why we haven't, uh we haven't seen the last of the reaction in the university yet. What it will be. I had, I was very positive and

00:14:56.270 - 00:15:18.179

I personally didn't, not so the same, but uh as a bird mark surprised me. Uh after when he came here the day after to find out a bit of feeling. Uh tell me, are these the kind of men who uh would have objected to uh any

00:15:18.190 - 00:15:40.510

colleagues who have been elevated to someone within their ranks? Uh No, I don't think so. Now I am sure that any time a president was chosen in one of the factories, there is this type of reaction I have to have gone to Harvard to grad student

00:15:41.030 - 00:16:03.349

about three years after corn that she present and there were a factory that were leaving my blood. He was chosen from the chemistry department to make friends and made a set up political find in the box problem. Five years later, it was still running what had

00:16:03.359 - 00:16:31.770

happened while choosing impress. So if you choose the question, found it, we set against it, invariably somebody's gonna leave. It's obviously possible to choose the present at this time. That somebody being so intense about it, I think with Bill Master Boston, I, uh, I don't know

00:16:31.780 - 00:17:02.219

why, why process, because they were so worried about. It was me. It must be some reason. It wasn't the one, the Pacino and it wasn't the one discipline. It wasn't the liberal against the contributor. I, I felt that he had that much problems. You would have

00:17:02.229 - 00:17:32.910

problems, some of the, uh, people, things, he was authoritarian when he was here. Um What, what is observation? Uh I imagine that you would call him that. Uh, although I think that in his college, the uh active, considering an authoritarian method, but I think that he,

00:17:32.920 - 00:17:50.119

he really lifted his students. I think his colleague, there was more, there was much discussion between him and the students. There wasn't any other colleges. All right. One of the problems with being a master is you get a good balance. You have to have some set

00:17:50.130 - 00:18:07.530

of authorities over there. Our Ecologist is going to be down here. The master has to be somewhat but you have to know when, well, actually the big problem about being in college master is that you've got to run the college without students knowing you. That's really

00:18:07.540 - 00:18:23.459

the, the way it is. And of course, sometimes you have to give in and, uh, I think he gave it, he and I were noted for running Tryptic College. Well, there's four houses. I think they all have different problems, doesn't matter, different personality and their boy

00:18:23.469 - 00:18:42.550

colleagues had problems which respectively and uh you were somewhat authoritarian. But I think his students, I had lots of good. My son in law, my wife, uh my daughter has been married to this boy after he got out of college back to law school and he

00:18:42.560 - 00:19:02.530

was very surprised initial as a final reaction. Agree with me. His initial reaction, but a member of the alumni of his college was favorable and these would have been people who were at hand and I don't think they, I think the student opinion that you got

00:19:04.280 - 00:19:27.569

6556. Uh If I could, I could see a change in students making in 3.5 hours at noon o'clock, noon at lunch reaction. Nobody gets it and not everybody in favor of it, but some people spoke strongly. They, and at 330 to 4, they already have a

00:19:27.579 - 00:19:41.619

demonstration. Um If you could give me any of the names of these young students, it might be coming back this small. It'd be interesting to get these on record and see what, see what their reaction to the situation is. Well, I really can't remember because I

00:19:41.630 - 00:19:59.050

only spoke with my colleagues and I can't even remember now who I had lunch with. Uh So I can't, I can't really be a helper. Uh I made this remark changed student men many times to engage even the students. What was their reaction. Some of them

00:19:59.060 - 00:20:22.250

would agree. But then instead of the ma they would really miss student body change their mind. But, you know, I stood up to Masterson on this basis, not that I was ever defended his being present, but I defended Master and I wouldn't let anybody speak harshly

00:20:23.410 - 00:20:42.689

in my, in my college. Not even on the floor, inspire all the students dressed down one of my own back. Not for being you have no right to make those statements about, about the man. And I will back you up as to whether you should be

00:20:42.699 - 00:21:08.479

president, but I will not back you up with your casts, character, top professionals. Well, good that you basically is a good administrator if I could make a mistake doing a good job over there. I, I, I think in the long run, if he had come on

00:21:08.489 - 00:21:20.670

to different circumstances, I think he could have done it, did a good job for writing. Now, of course, there was a, a certain element who felt that by going to masters and the university was going back to a more conservative fan and I agree with that

00:21:21.130 - 00:21:43.500

vander, greatest, rather conservative, all the present appointment Chapin Sam in the sense that it's a very, very conservative group now, they're running these. Uh and I, if the board really, the trustees really want it not getting ma is not gonna change their minds. And, and even

00:21:43.510 - 00:22:04.969

if I disapproved or approved either way of their conservative that, uh I say to the, the board, I have to see the board has a right to and father two late I didn't agree with, but I, I was actually didn't agree with a lot of, but

00:22:04.979 - 00:22:17.099

I was really good that in the very beginning at the board of trustee that appointed Fitzer and he had every right to make the policy he did, even if I didn't, I didn't agree with his r expansion university, but he ended up with, between him and

00:22:17.109 - 00:22:36.939

the North Pres and had every right to it, even if it bothered me. And I say the exact same they want to get back. They were therefore a group of people in the chem department particularly. That's the close of the fix who viewed Matheson as a

00:22:36.949 - 00:22:55.900

threat to what had been in a conference. And they were right because you would have run what ways uh would be. Uh I'm, I'm a little vague in my mind about what this worth for the services in the context of rhyme. Um uh what are some

00:22:55.910 - 00:23:16.770

of the things I look at, I look at this, this, this, in this, in this particular uh connection, I look at the conservatism, primarily the financially uh P A belt that to have a good university, you had to expand, you couldn't have a university that's good

00:23:16.780 - 00:23:35.060

na international reputation is a big university without a certain volume of, you just couldn't limit it to use and you had to build up all these departments and this, that department after department, those face signs and to do that, he had to have the philosophy. As

00:23:35.589 - 00:23:54.540

many statins run out there that absolutely essential to offer a university in the black in a race. If you've got to sacrifice, you ought to be out in order to properly expand the university in order to make it good, you make it great. That's what I

00:23:54.550 - 00:24:13.619

would say was the liberal view, conservative view financially. Uh, and I think I bought a trustee and correct is that, uh you can have a small and yet a good university which it wasn't the greatest, it wasn't the Harvard. It wasn't a, it was broad based

00:24:13.930 - 00:24:36.380

graduate the electoral, but it was just a good too and is large, the main and well known, good school. But, and I think ma with a tendon, I'm just guessing, but I have a feeling and the border couldn't be like to see it operate in black

00:24:37.640 - 00:24:58.369

little worried about the rapid expansion in the number of years and these numbers now that I think this is the type of conservatism that I, that I think was really underlying it. There are other types of conservative, never like uh political philosophy that may go through

00:24:58.380 - 00:25:20.869

uh more prestige, which might have something or, yeah, I guess, I think it's fine and we are facing a major financial problem because of the fact that we've always expected the government support and I'm working for the comic. This money, the ac is university and I'm

00:25:20.880 - 00:25:41.660

very close to the NIH. Probably that, that money is, this can be cut out universities who have expanded like Bryce has in the last 78 years. Oh, I, what they call so money I'm running is gonna run into trouble now. Medical, the, all because of the

00:25:41.819 - 00:26:05.319

over dependent on government financing, government financing is restricted. We had then the university we were, we were under house with the mere ripple in our overall act. But if we, if we gotta face problems, this department, we were supposed to get 30% of our valy carried

00:26:05.329 - 00:26:22.849

from outside. And where are we gonna get it? This is the type of liberalism, liberal. I was talking about liberal and conservative financially and with this type of thing to do with the, the graduate undergraduate quality, with the, with the expansion of university automatically has to

00:26:22.859 - 00:26:42.890

be expecting to graduate. It was, yeah. In fact, his fits are basically wants to expand the register and then quite obvious that when they started charging tuition that once having gotten the fact to expand the grad, they could take more of the grad increase in size

00:26:42.900 - 00:27:12.050

of the university tuition. Me is a reflection of me and finance water the audience you have. Do you have a good stool? What many of them? August F and I'll agree with that if we were gonna be at Harvard or Yale or Chicago, we would have

00:27:12.060 - 00:27:38.579

to have this. I, I'm not convinced that there wasn't a place a school such as rice was for. And I think this is, this philosophy had a very you that a group of people brought here by Texas saw immediately if they thought reversal of everything in

00:27:38.589 - 00:28:02.859

p and try to do of that a good school, but a good small and I'm not sure uh which way to go on. I, I have my own brothers but I figure that if the university has changed its policy to such an extent that I didn't

00:28:02.869 - 00:28:21.359

like it. And it's my job to leave. It's not my job to, it's not their job to adapt the university the way I as an individual species. But the modern day younger, better, particularly uh well establishment feel that they have a right to establish the size

00:28:21.599 - 00:28:44.390

of or what is blocking. I have the same feeling in that way as I do to my students, students have a right to be every day they thought, but they shouldn't have right making. And I think the fact that the back and have all the rights

00:28:44.400 - 00:29:16.219

to run it academically as far as possible under the framework that the board of trust that the private university is established. How many right. I know the young tr exactly for university. You got more and more like that. I had the great change. Been hard times,

00:29:17.640 - 00:29:51.959

right? The heart attack by the job is not gonna get to a lot. The whole block that education is probably oh shit, fine. I think you should go ahead a burn that don't know exactly. They all of it. When you say the young family members, are

00:29:51.969 - 00:30:11.560

you referring mostly to those who are most vocal? I mean, your secretary wants you. Mhm. One day a month. See we, we were just saying that um was it uh let me think of the younger faculty members who were pretty influential? Uh Are you referring mainly

00:30:11.569 - 00:30:38.989

to those who are vocalism who appeared at the college meeting who appeared at? I don't really think there was influence with, to me the influential fact you really make so well those cross the board c factors if they had been called back, I would be back

00:30:39.020 - 00:31:03.619

in the younger, the younger and talked about how it should have been done and I would agree with him once and this isn't the way to do that. They handle it badly. But uh I don't think the young faculty they got, they just started, but I'm

00:31:03.729 - 00:31:28.089

a student cut to the front, whether this front was a good front or not because pro wise it actually s master and reputation because you go anywhere back to the students against, nobody bothered that. But if it got out, see you back, any kind of he

00:31:28.099 - 00:31:48.079

wanted to drop. Matson is very clever man. Maybe when he got here and realized how the fact that manufacturer, it's true, he probably realized that the students are being set up by certain members of the fa may have thought this was the best way to say

00:31:48.099 - 00:32:19.650

we done everything, newspapers all across the land. So things that is anybody dead, anybody. And I think it's, you have, uh, well, I, I worked before. It's, uh, I, I watched with him, I mean, I watched Dead line as a master. Not at the bar. I

00:32:19.660 - 00:32:44.369

think there's a, there's a lot of in that they knew that he had if academic yet active. And I think he was sure enough to try to figure out how he could get by the, that day. And I think when he started with John, he get

00:32:44.380 - 00:33:08.469

it, he's also smart enough to know how he could get out of it. Not hurting yourself all this time. You can take the student anybody back and forth that, that it happens on, put the blame on, it was announced in the two years chat. Yeah, this

00:33:08.479 - 00:33:30.900

is true. I don't care how they do with it. Do that. Nothing to do with the exception. Like gum need to go on again. There's nothing. And has he, has he got some kind of agreement yet? Uh, and, uh, that, that, but, uh, the idea that

00:33:30.910 - 00:33:49.530

the me may have met with that live without because he was afraid to meet the faculty uh in order to make it look like all these things make maybe quite, maybe, I don't know. But that is the first one and he got out of it. You

00:33:49.540 - 00:34:04.930

know, he got out of it, his whole skin. This is how they don't. You think he was really very deeply hurt by it? You talk about it or feel right about it. I think he was hurt by. Yes, I think he was hurt. I don't know

00:34:04.939 - 00:34:26.850

how deeply he was hurt. I'm sure he was life and this is unfortunate because uh I would hope that in the long run, he would realize that certain reaction is the mild and if somebody had come out real strong and real strong, what they could have

00:34:27.030 - 00:34:52.189

wrong. And so if the factor but you want to do is go that direction. The mob psychology, it the same psychology cause the crucifixion of Christ years ago overnight. I hope my knowledge change. Uh I imagine he was hurt but I, I think uh I hope

00:34:52.199 - 00:35:14.429

he, he realizes that the overall student reaction the time, but he may have been heard really more about the fact that this mess very, very long second web check. At what point do you think he began to realize uh that uh things were running very much?

00:35:15.830 - 00:35:39.889

Oh I think you did that in to I, I was convinced that he came and you do it like that didn't happen. Uh Remembering a situation as it existed at that. Uh, that on that week, would there have been any problem about getting, uh, members back

00:35:39.909 - 00:35:52.550

to get us to talk with? Uh, are you recommending that he should have talk to the back advisory committee or just to talk? He should have gone, in my opinion. The first thing he should have done was to meet the students when they marched, gave a

00:35:52.560 - 00:36:10.310

little talk to you said, gentlemen, this is the way it is. I now I'm going to see the broom. Appreciate your point. And that now whether he get it recouped, I don't know. I think that you could have, I think you could have been done if

00:36:10.340 - 00:36:29.080

the board really wants a depression. I think they just got an impression I wouldn't do it by even with a strong opposition. I really don't know how strong the opposite. Bye. That's the only chance he ever had I think, be impressed. Work first by, I guess

00:36:29.090 - 00:36:50.399

they, they thought they are. You again and remember the budget committee was so strong again that even going to, that going to bo committee would be the hard way to, you know, we don't see it behind. I think the one trustee. Well, I don't, I don't

00:36:50.409 - 00:37:19.570

really know about the word to thank they bought. Yeah, I sure is that this is, or is that I don't understand what, what are the girls, um, at the uh meeting that took place? In the college at weeks on, uh, Sunday night. Um, is there anything

00:37:19.580 - 00:37:38.010

that special stands out in your mind that took place at that meeting? No. Uh, I, I was very impressed with the way the students handled. I was really impressed with his and I think the student leadership. Well, I didn't approve of what they did. I didn't,

00:37:38.020 - 00:37:58.810

I didn't approve of the fact that they considered that they were running, they were making decisions. But I, I, uh, I thought that to me that it's nice was all very nice. And the only time I, but I did one that making marks. He got a

00:37:58.820 - 00:38:26.100

office. What kind of remark had he made? He made one which by the tone of his voice and understand what he said, man of his reputation. You do? Nice. We have been trying to keep still people discussion on the fact that we were worried. Good bye

00:38:28.379 - 00:39:06.649

ma I want to see that I didn't actually try to the man himself. He dragged into it as a man and he asked his daughter bed sometimes. Ok. I was just to kind of overflow and most of the people that have been

00:39:06.659 - 00:39:34.360

talking and the fact that my colleague, they want the, I don't think we had too many rings. Steven. It happened to come a time in my college where you just change very nice springboard for the present. So, um, presidents over there. Well, if the actually present,

00:39:35.600 - 00:39:53.850

yes, just, just come back to me. You want? Yeah. Oh, I've been, I was kind of ta, I mean, I feel like he name so I know. Well, I have him on the list and, uh, he did a, they did a prac, I was very pleased

00:39:53.860 - 00:40:24.489

with ways to the dra, uh, I'm the only worried about relationship between students and friends. I didn't think the students had the right r to make out thought about it back in the, but in the long run it probably was, was worthwhile having that in the

00:40:24.500 - 00:40:48.760

long run. I think it worked out well because it, it act as a buffer. You make the noise the back, you make the, that's a good thing that say it was because of the student deach back is that in the way we done you one all

00:40:48.770 - 00:41:26.520

over the country, I visit a lot of people. What the red spot he came out of his opinion. You might not. Ok. And because that you, yeah. Terrible. Right. I think that shut down. We got it settled with a minimum of damage. Well, I, I found

00:41:27.540 - 00:42:18.149

real talent so bad and willing to do not do it in the way either way that the loo, what I God figured that this was a better best chance last. Right. I don't one in any type of, a lot of things did that than any

00:42:18.159 - 00:43:02.860

politician know that need at the moment that he may not have really agree. I, uh, I was 30. Just come on anybody. The fact that he didn't come to talk to you hit, you're the student and could give you some idea of the time that what

00:43:10.010 - 00:43:44.169

we want. The master's meeting. Uh, sometimes Sunday afternoon, we would climb inside and spread it. How we can best that am to back out. It just, uh, whether or not one of us should, you don't blame anybody. It doesn't uh, finally decided the what tried to

00:43:44.199 - 00:44:08.899

call him on the phone and telling them while we were all remind them, we felt the situation was untenable but it's all good. What we recommend and dark. No, I haven't. I been to because he said, do we put him to call me doctor smoking? Very

00:44:09.010 - 00:44:37.979

different. Very different. Give me back. But we were ready to go and talk to her out of our friend situation with such that were no good but no, I mean, well, both may have talked to. We didn't give any, I don't think if they be masked

00:44:38.040 - 00:45:26.810

out of the car, press release but not to the outside red. It was, remember when they said what was now we life. It's another part of the situation. I think you do thats the problem. Good job, I don't believe for a minute. Wow. More conservative. No,

00:45:33.020 - 00:46:12.100

I will stay here. I have, there are the naturally on political overcome. I have to double. I have to feel that a private school has the right to establish itself at the time of turn the electric water. A lot of fact, people back, I don't know,

00:46:12.110 - 00:46:41.620

I just can't understand why it bothers you. You can that part too. People don't have to come as long as you don't have a capital. Um, now I get the point of view on the, so I'm expecting, I don't expect, I have no idea. I've been

00:46:41.629 - 00:47:18.129

out of town. You are? What, um, how long, how long will you be gone until September year taught us to, I realize we're getting close to, uh, your, another appointment that you might have today. But I just have one more question. I would like to have

00:47:18.139 - 00:47:39.909

you, uh, had an opportunity to keep up very closely with the masters career in Chattanooga. I haven't really talked to anybody who seems to know very much about any of his people. No way. I think I could imagine that his biggest achievement was back to the

00:47:39.919 - 00:47:59.679

University of Chattanooga is a part of the University of 10. University of Chattanooga. At a school has a lot of parallel university. There was a barbecue, served as the city school, had a very large enrollment without the finances to run it. Not, not being highly out.

00:47:59.689 - 00:48:22.360

He was running into serious financial problems. How much he paid, putting the structure this city school for profit in the state system when it became finance, this was a test before the government did it in honor and all I know that this is he is staying

00:48:22.370 - 00:48:54.340

on his chance. You really walk home. What's that? But he was given excellent di, what you say, na very high speed. Very bitter. I do no match for that time. I, I actually think in the long run as administrators, it is gonna happen. The first thing

00:48:54.399 - 00:49:26.610

is, you see, I haven't, I don't, one of our own students here has got to be made out of office, but I have no, not about two right to join. W so I really don't know what, what the overall left the breast. No. Good job. Huh?

00:49:29.360 - 00:49:54.800

Small city school expanding r students with no money rock. Yes. Uh well, actually, I've only been here about four race financially. Almost impossible. Not predicting daily college medicine. Why they, why they don't give up? You come to the University of Texas, they have the University of

00:49:54.810 - 00:50:14.570

school, uh University of Texas. They are medical school. University of Texas. They going to go down the drain. He said no, we go start another university in Texas. So I have no real insight into how you so much of what was said at the time was

00:50:14.580 - 00:50:32.760

based on the knowledge of his performance uh 03 or four years earlier, based on form of the gene of the method. The first gene is method. So actually there wasn't anyone who spoke for uh uh uh spoke with real knowledge of his experience as a chief

00:50:32.770 - 00:51:08.290

executive officer or now he has, uh reacted in you losing the last three years. That, that's really, that's really, I know. And of course I'm real, which I don't, I think, I think it would have been a little more authoritarian approach. Which are you me, I,

00:51:08.300 - 00:51:41.679

I don't think students have any regulation and not giving these students any damage. Ok. Just an example of the title go. This was started my student I the back. But what, what the max of every student who voted on is gone. So those students and alumni

00:51:42.030 - 00:51:58.659

made the decision at least to I pose this question to students watch those 56 years. You don't think of what they're doing. Why did they make the decision for you here? And more than the faculty who are, who are here now and were also here? OK.

00:52:00.919 - 00:52:17.070

Students make the decisions, the decisions they make, they have come down to them. So they no longer, you know, one student, four years to the bartender, four years, they wanted to run a queue left and the best of the people that run school in their fresh,

00:52:22.330 - 00:52:55.959

I am I don't think all right in this world, you can change the great deal between 18 and 22. I think that I don't think that that Russia Un. I think the situation is right. We got a little off hand. What about you? Positive Fox is

00:52:56.760 - 00:53:29.989

report to square one. No problem. Right. I don't know if you heard that from the active demand, which we have no problem with the right still problem because we get everything molecule. No, I think that's gone. Oh, conduct problem. No problem. Second time. Some of the,

00:53:32.929 - 00:54:01.399

well, I said what a T number, I think anybody and you have a say what this is like. Oh, that talk to you, accept it. I think that they will be accepted as long as they don't, as long as they have their eyes. Uh Don't get

00:54:01.409 - 00:54:38.689

the idea that everything they say has to be accepted. Uh uh uh credlin your conduct c by those, which is the logical what you do you talk about right and hold you ready. So I have in the middle of Garden College this uh it's hard to

00:54:38.699 - 00:54:58.169

say I had nothing to do with the plan. The college they were already, all the, the boys had already collected from college when I was supposed to and when I joined the other masters, I was the last master. It became very opposite. Five masters and four

00:54:58.179 - 00:55:30.879

masters then came off for a shot after uh none of them get to form President House had had one committee that day and it chose the full back. Thank you. I don't know why but I people max one better but I mean, morning or so, I

00:55:30.989 - 00:55:58.080

just don't think there would be, we would, he would have to start the system when he came in after the rules, the basic rule does and lay down, right. What we had to do? Well, I'm sure very undue you mentioned before that you were on the

00:55:58.090 - 00:56:20.080

committee that uh back advised the committee that uh helped select. Picture. Uh Do you notice any change in the uh constitution bo So pictures and the, this floor that there is a difference. I don't think there's an awful lot of difference. At least the way I

00:56:20.090 - 00:56:47.479

see it, I don't think it's not about. I think it's been a relative good service. Uh This was basically chosen by one man. Yeah. Um To manage to build the building. Duke, Duke Razer is the driving force of what he said. He was the one that

00:56:47.489 - 00:57:27.360

pushed me after all. Nobody mortgage. Not actually I, the only thing we've got to change is the jam J himself, man. I don't let me express the board of churches. Would you guess would have been the driving force to bring me? I, I feel the love

00:57:31.010 - 00:58:00.050

very depend. That is uh he was back wholeheartedly. But wow, how, I don't know whether, how, how well allergy. I love it. I guess it's just like the driving force raising picture I think about it, which is quite different than other case because love is a

00:58:00.070 - 00:58:22.909

German race. It wasn't ra and chairman of the back of the board committee choose the president, not the president. Love it as chairman of the chairman of the committee. Certainly. Right. Well, you mentioned before that when they would, the former board would have prospects, they would

00:58:22.919 - 00:58:41.610

uh discuss them with you before they approached the man or not. And what's that? The liberation of the, not the faculty of verdict? Well, it's really hard to, to say, all I know is that we have a lot of state energy. Uh We had a much

00:58:41.620 - 00:59:10.709

more highly organized faculty committee, at least I think we did. They even had appointed a full time man who was kind of secretary to both committees who got all the names together and the rene we had sacked and we would have mutual discussion, Mr Ray and

00:59:10.719 - 00:59:25.959

uh the names were just batted around. He went out to see uh Pita, he went out to see fit to get his advice on what kind of man he should get and asked if this was interested. He came back and told me and I think the

00:59:25.969 - 00:59:53.209

difference in the old boy, you know, in, in our situation, this was that they were just more uh and this was with, right? Maybe. No, we didn't have a we buy no. Hold on the man done. He voted on the Taliban. We voted that we talked

00:59:53.219 - 01:00:16.370

to this man when he did rest and the board said he did, he give any reason? Well, or both go on. So uh II I think that the difference here was not in mechanics, but in number two, it was different. The way they do back is

01:00:16.379 - 01:00:29.679

they fa me, I don't know how I would use and my study of the back surgery, I received a letter, I don't remember who I was using and I thought I may have, it may not have even been a letter. May have been a phone call.

01:00:32.669 - 01:01:00.189

L the other committee was the cross section. I don't think luck German level selected a different type of person. As long as that he wanted to be on it. They actually had to run. Do you like it? It made them uh much more, made them talk

01:01:00.409 - 01:01:33.050

of memories. They loaded maps a lot of it. Chapman. No, I'm afraid. Don't do that. Well, the first. Oh, I see. Yeah. On that all bran, I don't remember about six report of the commission and response that, well, that's kind of you said, like I given

01:01:33.060 - 01:01:50.899

us some uh some new insights into this whole thing and I'm really grateful to you for this time. Is there anything you'd like to add before we let you get on to your other activities? No, I think it's uh the brain, everything is there. The university

01:01:50.929 - 01:02:39.129

is terrified. That's why. And communication and thought. Yeah, back. Will it happen be a turn up? I don't, I think the turnover but somebody, the box, whether that be internal, yeah, changes in orientation and the board wanted to take your time when I, in my term

01:02:39.139 - 01:03:32.169

conservative they basically, financially the ET T but basically, oh, we all kind of know. I don't think that really don't feel all right. Exactly. Basically. Bye. Basically local. It's a nice spot big in front. Nothing to do with. I want to be. Well, thank you very

01:03:32.179 - 01:03:33.500

much for your time. Appreciate you watching.