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Today is November 23, 2022. My name is Gina Matos, and I'm interviewing Roman Jazmin on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to conduct an interview with me.

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Oh, you're welcome. Anytime. Okay, so we can go ahead and get into the first question: when and where were you born? I was born February 18, 1969, in the city

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of Angeles City, which is in the Philippines, next to Clark Air Force Base, to give you some reference. What were your parents' occupations? Well, my father was a U.S, you know, he was a—in the Air

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Force, enlisted as a sergeant. My mom was a homemaker. So, she basically just stays home to take care of her kids. So, growing up with a father who was a sergeant in the U.S Air Force,

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how did this affect your childhood? Oh, basically, what happened is that we keep on moving around a lot. So therefore, having bonds and relationships with other kids was hard.

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Not only for me and my brothers and sister, but also with other kids as well, being in a military family, because usually you stay in a station about two—for two years, and then you move to another location, sometimes mid-school year.

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So...unfortunate, but that's what happens. That's what military requires so–so, it was more like—really a drag because you can't build social relationships that way.

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But you stay close with your family, and so forth. So, at least we had that. Speaking of being close with family, you grew up with five siblings?

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Actually, three siblings [GM: Three siblings.] Two of them, I don't know what happened to them, but I do know that they exist. And parents are my—in my family, you know, there are secrets that, you know-you know, don't get revealed until probably later on when

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some-when some unfortunate, older relative or elder passed away and news starts coming in. It's like, oh, this happened or that happened. Things happen that way. So two of my siblings, I don't know if they know, but

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my older sister, she's the oldest one. She moved out when she turned 18 and got married. So that leaves only me and my two other brothers. So, growing up from—and we're the ones that move around, while the others—my

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older sister, she stayed in Manila, Philippines, with her family and the other two, I don't know, but me and my brothers are the only ones. So, it's fun to build relationships that way and stay cohesive as a family.

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I see. Going off of that, how would you describe the household you grew up in? Apart from moving around a lot, are there any specific memories you would like to share?

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Oh, it's a typical life otherwise, other than the move. If we—in being in the military and—one thing that-that we're probably gonna touch on later on is that my family, the Jazmins, have been in the military since—during the

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Second World War. And, you know, from that, you know, our family environment is more military styled, disciplined. My father always like—who is not harsh, but he did treat, you

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know, the order and, you know, strictness of rules, enforcement of rules and so forth. So, it's that kind of environment. It was not harsh, but it's more focused on discipline and being

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responsible, caring for others, and focusing on the family and also have some spiritual beliefs at the same time. Those were the co-common values and obviously the golden rule, to be nice to one another.

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Everything you learn from the Bible, and respect the elders, and traditions and culture. So, wherever we go, there's always a different culture that we must learn and also the languages.

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So, that needed to be done if it wasn't—if-if English and Western culture was not predominant in that, you know, country, that we had to learn—adjust as kids, because that's what they do in our schools. Oh, another thing too, they made us go to military schools—base schools, not

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outside schools. So, just to clarify. So, again, more discipline, more—not harshness, but more structure. So it helps build character that way.

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And being in the military family...if any of the kids become rowdy, rude or rebellious, and takes it out on, you know, the environment, like bait, you know, graffiti, like-like a building, or rebel, or cause riots and stuff like that, it reflects more

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on the parents—the military parents. So, that's why my parents (?), my, you know, military parents have to be strict on their kids. And that helps in their upbringing and character development.

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Did you practice any particular Filipino traditions with your family growing up? You know, my family, my father, my mother, they're, like, the second generation, you know, Americans—Filipino-Americans. But we also have different cultures as well.

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Not necessarily Filipino, but more Chinese, and more Vietnamese, and many other different, you know—So in order to answer your question, I have to, like, think back crucially, what was really a Filipino tradition?

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What was really an American only tradition? Because we did celebrate Halloween, we did celebrate, you know, some of the Filipino holidays as well, when my mom remembers, or my parents, you know, my parents remembers. You know, Easter,

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Thanksgiving, Christmas. So, it's hard for me, thinking back quickly, what was truly a Western and what was that—not Western? So... yeah, that's the best answer I could give for that.

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Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but you moved from Okinawa to the Philippines in grade school? [RJ: Yeah.] Do you remember experiencing any sort of particular culture shock at such a young age?

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And if you could elaborate on how it was growing up in the Philippines? Okay, first of all, there was, you know, since we're more base-centered, or base-restricted, because of my parents wanted it that way, really couldn't see

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what's outside—the other side of the wall and outside of the fence. We were in Kadena, we were inside the base. So, the Japanese slash Okinawan culture, really didn't get that much of it other than, you know, the anime, and

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also the toy store—the toy stores and stuff like that when we go outside the base. But inside the base, it's more Westernized–Westernized based, and that kind of structure. When we moved to the Philippines, same thing, except for this time we live

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off base, and even then, the subdivision or the area that, you know, we were living in had a bunch of other, you know, off base, you know, base, you know, families. So, one area could be off base, but predominantly

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it's still a sense of being on base though, but we're not on base. So, the environment is still the same, even though we're in different locations. There is no cultural change, but there is always like a cultural teacher that teaches the kids their cultural

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traditions and also the languages of the countries that, you know, one is based in. Like Japanese, for when you're in Okinawa, and then Filipino for when you were in the Philippines.

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Did not have any cultural shock because, you know, as I said, we’ve been moving around a lot, so therefore, we don't know exactly what is American versus what is Korean-Korean or whatever is Filipino,

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whatever is Japanese. Wherever we were, we always thought, you know, the way that we behave, the-the celebrations and holidays was something that we, you know, it was part of us, so therefore, it's nothing new.

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So no culture shock that way. Such an interesting answer. Reading from your biography, joining the Boy Scouts in grade school seems to not only have been a significant part of your childhood, but it

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had a role in sparking an interest in STEM for you. So, can you elaborate on the beginnings of your interest in STEM? Well, basically, it started out, you know, about, you know, because, you know, when I was in Okinawa, we were in

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Okinawa, a lot of our cartoons or things that we're watching, you know, in TV were, you know, Japanese robot movies, you know, whatever it may be. So there was an interest of robots, you know, first, from a science fiction point of view, and science fiction-type technology, whatever, Star

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Trek, whatever, Godzilla. So, you know, that was established. And when I was in the Boy Scouts, you know, I always wanted to do a lot of activities to earn

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badges, you know, that's what they want you to do. And, you know, get that sense of goal, you know, be goal oriented, and take the steps for that. Now, how that relates to my interest in science is because, you know,

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no matter what I studied, it became more interesting, you know, some of the scientific subjects became interesting to me. Math became interesting to me. Basic physics, basic science principles, you know.

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My teachers, my science teachers always made it very interesting, talking about magnets and so forth. So, it was my teachers, it was doing the Boy Scout projects, and particularly a—they were doing like a project on atomic energy.

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So I found that very interesting. And for somehow-somehow, that more than anything else sparked a great interest to learn more, when I was 11. And then, focus more of my time that way, and to look at the

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future as to what's going on, what do I want to be, so forth, you know, determine that at an early age, what steps I want to take. So it's a gradual thing that, you know, got me interested into becoming where I am right now.

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Where I am right now is more like into programming. And I'm still also on (inaudible)—oftentimes I do like a lot of scientific or computing or programming type of interests or reading up on, so. Stays with me, it's been there from the very beginning.

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Simply from just watching anime, and, like, looking at the science fiction side of it. So that got me interested in—the fact that I understand it quickly. That's what—another thing that got me interested.

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Because a lot of things, other things, you know, that people, you know, are doing, I—it's hard for me to, like, pick that up and stuff like that. But, you know, when it comes to reading about science, reading about history of engineering, reading about anything technical, I picked it up quickly,

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you know, even though if at an early age. So, that made me feel that this is where I'm supposed to belong. So... Would you say that—were there

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any specific school subjects that you disliked growing up? No, actually. A sense of curiosity, sense of structure, sense of...

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I cannot think of any subject, whether it be grade school, middle school, junior high, even high school, that I did not like. I do perform better on math or science.

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Wait, no. Probably more better than-better than, you know, probably composition or home ec or driving education. So, it's more like a pull to... heavy stuff, heavy subjects like science or math that got me interested, or

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even learning another language. You know, those were some of the subjects I rate myself as being higher on and—more on the lower end is more like language or even (?) fine arts, you know.

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So, yeah, there's nothing that I, you know, that I did not—-dis-dislike. It's more, like, on the style of the teacher and, you know, the mood and environment, you know, that determines not necessarily the subject matter, but more like if I want to be in that

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class, because the teacher shows leadership, he shows or she-or she shows, like, you know, brings the interest. Or does he bring that spark to the kids? And it's the kid's responsibility to just sit there and learn as much as they can.

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I don't (inaudible)—sorry [laughs] . I-I—alright, pretty much that's it. It's like, I-I didn't have any—this, you know, any classes I didn't like. Did your parents encourage academic discipline growing up?

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Or would you say it was more self instilled? Or a combination of both? It's self instilled. In fact, when I was in my teenage years, I was in junior high, I was

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studying-studying a lot, going to a library a lot more than my peers, even when there wasn't summer school. My parents wanted me to not—-stop studying, do something else. And so, therefore, we, you know, I did the Boy Scouts, I did soccer and

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basketball, and-and so forth. A way to get out of the house. I do a lot of reading at that time. You know, reading books that were, you know, age appropriate,

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and, you know, so that I could digest at my age and my understanding. Even when I was in high school, there was never a push from my Asian parents to, like, you know, excel.

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I wanted to excel for myself. I didn't want to do it because my parents made me do it, or they choose a direction for me. You know, or set of values, I learned it

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through watching them, through going to church, through my studies, through my teachers, you know. And that's really important. So it's, like, the teachers, the family, yes, those are the ones start—built the-the

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foundations for your character. You know. Again, spiritual life as well comes into that, into your building your character. So, yeah, in answering your question, no, they didn't. In fact, they wanted me to do—they wanted me to do the opposite, meaning—-stop studying,

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go outside, be more social, and stuff. I mean, I do that, you know, I had friends, and I was not a nerd. I was not an outcast or isolated. In fact, a lot of people know who I was, even though they don't talk to me, you

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know, you know, "Here's Roman, that's his name, and he does this. But he also studies and he also does Boy Scouts, he's in a science club. He—" you know, "He knows all the smart people as well as the jocks. And, you know, and, you know, people the highest, you know, level on the social

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ladder in high school, and also junior high. So, initially, it was, like, academics, but eventually it, you know, it's-it's becomes more well-rounded—it became more well-rounded. Because, you know, that's the way to do.

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That's a way to, like, survive and develop. We will return to your academics in a bit, when we talk [RJ: Okay.] about your university experience, but I wanted to go back to talking about immigrating to the U.S.

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[RJ: Okay.] Since you had already experienced moving across countries and to multiple different places with your family, was moving to America much of a change for you? And if so, how?

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It was not. The only change was the-the distance traveling from one place to another place. All the other countries were smaller than the United States. But we moved to California and traveling from one-one area—one part of California to the other part of the California took hours, which we

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were not used to. We were used to, like, three hours. That's, you know, the maximum to travel from one place to another place in, you know, in Okinawa. Philippines, it's, you know, we always, you know, again, three hours, you know, from any point in a distance, you know, in a three

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hour–three hour driving radius. Culture was not surprising. There was no cultural shock. It was more like, "Are we there yet?

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Are we—" you know, "Are we—" you know, "How soon before we get to our next place?" It's more of that shock than anything else. So, the people were less disciplined? You know, because they're not raised in the-the base.

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So, when we go off base in California, a lot of-lot of people's bad habits was noticed, as opposed to base schools, base school children and base—you know, base personnel or base families, you know.

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So therefore, that could be contributed to—that could also be considered a-a-a cultural shock, because we—especially me, believe that, you know, since we've been staying in the base, you know, having that environment growing up, we naturally assume it happens in all families.

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But not-but not all families are in the military, not all families are disciplined. So, you know, when we checked out the, you know, when I checked out their—when I started going to off-base schools, not base schools, it was a shocker, because the kids that were not in the

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military or military families, the rudeness and also their-their behavior was odd. Because for us, if we did something like that being base kids, we'll get in trouble, or our fam—parents will get into trouble, you know.

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So basically, they, you know, we become good kids. But when we meet—when I met the other kids who weren't growing up in the same military environment, their behavior is more 'lax, or rude, or uncontrolled, or non-disciplined.

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So, that was a big shocker. I mean, it shows in their social skills, it shows in their-their grades. Even though, you know, no one of, you know, none of our parents actually push us.

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But base kids actually excel really well, you know, because that's the expectation and not that many actually fail. But when I looked at my... off-base friends who did not grow up in the military or had that military

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life upbringing, I see a lot of worry—you know, troublesome behavior patterns, and also flaw in their character, or lack of performance, and so forth. So, military life helps me and gives me that structure.

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Did you or any of your siblings ever clash with your father in terms of adapting or living the sort of military lifestyle, in which you mentioned can be more strict, etc.?

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You're asking if—it-it—you asked if we rebelled against the strictness or the structure of military life? No, because me and my brothers, while we were little, always believed, you know, this is the way that we have

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to live, you know, and we, you know, as kids, we follow our, you know, our parents, and this is how our parents behave. You know, there's hierarchy, there's order, you know, we say, "Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am." And you'll be truthful about it.

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And you always excel, because that's what they...expected. Even though they don't—I mean (?) do anything upright. So, I do not believe, for myself, that I rebelled, because of, you know, the military

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strictness. But I do know that my older brother, you know, in (?), actually, you know, heard stories. He and his friends actually usually get in trouble, you know, even though we're in a military family. But me and my little brother tend to be

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following the rules, you know, living by the standards and so forth. So, yeah, this—me and him—me and my little brother were okay, but my older brother—I guess it's because he is older or-or—he's not the oldest, oldest, but he's the oldest among the three siblings.

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So, the desire to rebel and be with a wrong—being—hanging out with the wrong crowd, actually, causes—causes clashes... you know, with my parents, especially.

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Speaking of your siblings, did having siblings make things easier, moving around so much? Yes, you know, growing up, you-you take your siblings for-for granted. You don't think—they're a big pain in the

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butt. But if you could just imagine and roleplay in your head, if they were not there, it's only you, and your two parents, and you moving around and not developing, you know, bonds with other kids? Yes, they are very important.

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And, you know, and—me, I'm important to them as well, because, you know, the same situation and for same reason. So there's a-a sense of, you know, thankfulness that they're in our lives, and that they help

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us, you know, keep us stable, you know, and—as opposed to if we're just only a, you know, only child and stuff. But, I came to realize that they were important, you know, they give some support.

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Even though officially outside, you know, I was complaining...about them being a pain. But inside, I think that, you know, I really do appreciate them. You know, both of them, actually, so...

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Real quick, returning back to moving to the States. [RJ: Yeah.] I wanted to ask: What was your family's view or your view of America upon arrival or even before arriving?

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That is, you know, the answer to that question is more like—we were always instilled, you know, influenced by our family that coming to America is very, you know, very important, you know, the country is very beautiful. The, you know, it's a great place to be.

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And-and growing up, you know, I could tell—I could speak to it, but for my siblings as well, it's like, we all wanted to come—go to the United States, and stay there rather than continually moving around from country to country. So when we finally arrived to United States in Lat (?), you know, San Francisco and

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also Los Angeles, we were excited. But we, you know, the culture did not surprise us, because we're already used to it already. As I imagined already, it's the–the hygiene, you know, and also the-the-the

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behaviors—some of the-of the people or the kids shocked us. But the culture did not. So, you know, we have that.

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I mean, we were happy to be there. But we were not—finally, when we moved to Georgia (?) for space, and we realized it's the middle of nowhere, it's a desert. And we thought that California was lush, green paradise, all

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throughout. But, not every place does like that in California. So, yeah, but we were happy, we were excited, you know, it's like the promised land and also the plan—the place where we should be, you know, we will be happy with.

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Thank you. We're gonna move more into your college experience now. [RJ: Okay.] First, how would you describe your experience at-at USC?

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Uh, I was really excited from inside (?). For a long time. I wanted to go to college, but I had to go pass—I had to—I have to pass high, you know, junior high, I had to graduate from high school. Then I could go to college.

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But I was itching—just like coming to the United States, I was itching to get to that place, you know, come to the United States and going to college. That might seems really odd to you for a small little kid, but, you know, kids always have their dreams.

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And my dream was to grow up and, you know, experience college life and see what it has to offer and—also that—to be sort of independent, and you know, focus on my career as well, being a science slash engineer, of sorts.

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Though I didn't know exactly, you know, what I wanted to be in that field, but I wanted to be in that field. So, college life was interesting. A lot of new experiences, as I told you, Victor—I don't

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think I told you, but Victorville is the middle of nowhere. So, socially, we can't do anything. But Los Angeles, we could do a lot more, you know, within arm's reach. We don't probably need to have a car, we could just take the bus, there's just so many

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different opportunities. So a lot of excitement for my first year, being in college. So, meet new friends that, you know, that stays with me and also come from

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different backgrounds, you know. Since we were in a very good school, I was going to a good school, the level of students and the level of people that I would be meeting and socializing with, will have a specific

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standard, specific quality. So, I was really happy about that. So that's what made me proud of, you know, being in the, you know, university in California, because of the caliber of the students that are being admitted.

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And, you know, they're very studious, they, you know, do a lot, they have a lot of culture, for sports and also other things like dancing and also theology, and so many other, you know, things that I was really interested in.

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But I already know—even then, I already know what I wanted to be, you know, which field I wanted to be in, you know, what I must do in order to get there, and so forth. So, I was set—I just need to, like, go through the programs and then graduate.

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And, you know, continue my career forward from there. So, yeah. You touched on this briefly, but you first pursued engineering classes, but then you decided to pursue a career in computer

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science. So, I wanted to ask what particularly led to this decision? Uh, well, just a choice again.

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Basically, when it came to computer science, it's more like sitting in front of the computer terminal, making applications and seeing progress in, you know, what you're doing. So—but with engineering, you need to have a lot of planning, you know, a lot of

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calculations and so forth. For me, the reason why I choose computer science, because, you know, one of the things I learned is that I love puzzles. I love, you know, board games that require strategy or

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thinking, you know, planning ahead of time, at the same time, have measurable results. Engineering takes a while. You need to do a lot of calculations, you need to do a lot of planning.

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But you do the same thing in computer science, but it's more—the turnaround is much faster, you know, you do a few, you know, you learn the language, you apply the requirements, and then you just run your code, you know, you run your program. That is what I liked.

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So, it didn't, you know, we're still doing the same thing. The turnaround is, like, much, you know, much faster for computer science. That's why, you know, I focused on that as well. And there was a time where I also focused on mathematics, because,

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you know, again, the turnaround is faster. The builder—is—there's the same thing as planning, thinking, you know, understanding and then... that aspect as well.

00:34:16.500 - 00:34:33.860

But I wanted something that could be universally used in anything. Like probably for cars, for programs, or banking and the, you know, other applications. So, that's why I then, again, focus on computer science.

00:34:38.190 - 00:34:51.580

Moving forward a little bit, you mentioned having to drop out before graduation. [RJ: Yes.] What was your experience like during this time? Well, finances.

00:34:52.090 - 00:35:12.370

Because what happened there is more, like—as you—at that time as you progress into becoming a junior or senior, the financial aid packages from the financial office switch. So now you—they are only offering more loans as opposed to

00:35:12.400 - 00:35:33.300

grants. When you started there, you know, it was like an inverse pyramid. Like, there are more grants and scholarships and less, you know, loans. So, what happened there is, like, I was starting to get burned out with, you know, learning a lot, doing a lot of things and trying to

00:35:33.300 - 00:35:48.750

make the grades. At the same time, I had to consider the financial aspect of it. Do I want to graduate knowing that I had a bunch of loans that are monstrous at that time? So, it was better, you know, to

00:35:49.980 - 00:36:06.850

leave and probably come back, probably, you know, I don't know how long, you know, and finish up my degree. Well, to say, you know, —in the meantime, use the skills that I do have, and there were a lot of opportunities, I mean, short term, but, you know, probably didn't pay that

00:36:06.850 - 00:36:24.480

much at that time, because I still didn't (?) have a degree with me. So I started applying to, you know, opportunities at that time. Also, around that time, there was the ".com boom." If you have—you know, during that time, if you have an idea,

00:36:25.690 - 00:36:42.570

and you could set up a business, and the Internet was booming at the time as well. So, you could set up a business online and provide services. And if you know a little bit, then, you know, that'll get you into the

00:36:42.610 - 00:37:01.260

door so that you could know more, and, you know, build your skill sets that way. So that's what I did for, like, close to 10 years. Then I—after 10 years, I just went back to school online and finished it up. And it was much cheaper and didn't take me long, because I was only missing like

00:37:01.370 - 00:37:17.430

one year before graduating. But I was able to gain experience, which is important, as well as getting the degree. So, I felt well-balanced.

00:37:17.820 - 00:37:34.390

I felt, you know, it was—it might be a drawback, but at the same time, it gives me a sense of being independent financially, as well as stable. Rather than leaving school and, you know, graduating

00:37:35.040 - 00:37:53.370

with a piece of paper, and then having lots of loans, or having a big loan amount and trying to figure out what to, you know, where my, you know, how I'm going to pay that off, and so forth. So, I think out of all the possibilities, I think this was a good

00:37:53.630 - 00:38:07.500

move. And to top it off, you know, I did finish—got my app, you know, my degree online. So, everything works out in the end. So it started out bad, but it turned out good in the end.

00:38:10.240 - 00:38:25.850

That's great to hear everything worked out. Yeah, it was long. There was, you know, there were times where the companies that was—or a project I was working on, they will fold

00:38:26.460 - 00:38:46.850

because it was coming to that point where .com bust, close to 2000. So, it was getting harder and harder to find new jobs, even with the skill sets I have. So eventually, you know, there's also—there was always, you know, teaching abroad. Be, you know, being part of a Peace Corps and they'll

00:38:46.850 - 00:39:03.300

help—you know, at least with Peace Corps, if you serve for two years, you get, you know, you—after the two years you, you know, get all your loans and also your debts taken care of—school related. So, I wanted to teach, to see what it's like.

00:39:03.590 - 00:39:24.050

So therefore, temporarily, I became a teacher slash school teacher overseas, you know, teaching English. We will get into teaching in South Korea in just a bit. [RJ: Okay.] I had a few more questions about your career.

00:39:24.440 - 00:39:42.880

[RJ: Okay.] So to clarify, would you say that working in computer science during the emergence of the Internet had its ups and downs? It seems like that was the case from how you've explained it so far. Yes. There was ups and downs, there was a lot of

00:39:44.000 - 00:39:57.940

business-business and companies that are still trying to establish their business models. And without business models, it could be, you know, a business model determines your fate or your prosperity in whatever field.

00:39:58.670 - 00:40:11.640

And it was pretty new, you know, because a lot of companies were used to the brick and mortar building type of environment. But this is online. It's online services.

00:40:12.190 - 00:40:24.210

So it's pretty new at that time, in that period. So people were still trying to figure out the best practices, because no one really did know. Big companies didn't really know. So it was a new experience for everybody.

00:40:24.210 - 00:40:41.100

So, that's what the ups-ups and downs are like, what works, what didn't work, people were still trying to figure it out. And, in the, you know, since I was a lowly programmer with no college degree, you know, I just had to do the best I can with the products I do have,

00:40:41.960 - 00:40:59.800

and, you know, make the company more successful. So, eventually, they'll last long enough to figure out what's the best model for, you know, for the environment right now, how can we profit in this environment. So, it's different from the 70s or 80s, because

00:41:00.590 - 00:41:18.250

not necessarily online—nothing online was done, because we didn't have laptops, cell phones, or even, like, the internet, at that time, it was only mid-90s that it became commercialized, and it started to boom, and where we got the “.com”s coming in.

00:41:19.470 - 00:41:34.010

People putting up their services. We take it for granted nowadays, you know, a lot of kids take it, you know, for granted. But there was a time where that was not the case. And people did not know what to do, you know, how, under best practices and so forth.

00:41:34.810 - 00:41:51.540

So there was that, you know, that's what made it up and down, you know, up, that's—not, you know, that whole process. But as-as, you know, it's like, people survived. People move on, you know, in order to survive financially, and support their

00:41:51.540 - 00:42:04.850

families and stuff like that. So, yeah, you got to do what you do in order to-in order to survive, and, you know, support your parents—support your family that way.

00:42:08.020 - 00:42:22.260

During that period in which you were searching for jobs, did you receive any discrimination having not graduated from USC? Or did it not really make a difference?

00:42:23.540 - 00:42:41.480

To tell you the truth, ever since—from 1993, was when I, you know, left college, up to the present day, the number of times when I go to interviews, and people may— brings up my

00:42:42.490 - 00:43:04.800

college education or education in general, is, like, less than five companies total, of all the interviews I've been to. Yeah, it's like, they don't even-even bother looking down on the resume, and check where I was, you know, what (inaudible)— there was no

00:43:04.800 - 00:43:17.580

discrimination at-at all regarding that. There's just, like, they just never mentioned it. They only look at my skills and my experience. And that was, you know, that was it and do—like, you know, since it's technical

00:43:17.580 - 00:43:30.390

related, they have me do a-a coding test. And as, you know, that's what a lot of them focus on. "Okay. You gave me your resume. All right, good. Here's a test.

00:43:30.560 - 00:43:46.880

Let's see what you do on it." So, basically, that's it, you know. And they never ever, ever mentioned or even bring up which school I, you know, I graduated from or-or was attending, or attending.

00:43:47.620 - 00:44:00.190

They just like, focus on what I could do right now. So, yeah, that was it. I guess it's that new paradigm rather than just looking at where a person is graduated from. So...

00:44:03.420 - 00:44:24.380

Have you ever received a particular kind of treatment, being an individual of Asian descent in your field? You know, I have—no I don't—when I first started off, I didn't see that. And now that I'm looking at all my projects

00:44:26.150 - 00:44:45.510

and my coworkers, to tell you the truth, 90% of my coworkers, whether they're remote or they're, you know, you know, we meet face to face in the building and stuff like that, 90% of them are Asian of, you know,

00:44:45.510 - 00:45:05.480

different, you know, there's Korean, there's Asian Indian, there's Vietnamese, there's Filipino, Chinese. So, basically, I don't think there was any segregation or prejudice of that case.

00:45:05.920 - 00:45:20.250

You know, it's just more like, most of my coworkers are Asians no matter what. So, I felt like I (?), you know, again, like, I feel comfortable. So therefore I excel, you know, and they feel comfortable with me.

00:45:20.270 - 00:45:35.740

So, you know, so they excel, so we help each other out that way, that's the new thing. Teamwork, in a group, you know, group effort. So, never felt any prejudice at all.

00:45:35.740 - 00:45:53.650

In fact, not only in, you know, in career, but everywhere-everywhere else, you know. I-I— they probably, you know, you know, if you were standing next to me, and something did happen, I would not pick up on it, because, you know, I usually don't pick up on those things and-and so forth.

00:45:53.710 - 00:46:12.720

But, you know, they have to, like, really be making it obvious. But, you know, I can say with honesty that I never felt, you know, discriminated against, or, you know, people might fear me, because

00:46:13.340 - 00:46:31.170

I shown when I could do academically, or in sports. So therefore, there's a sense of reverence, or, you know-you know, it's-it's, you know, from junior high to high school, and so forth. So, as I said, people will always—can see me—there was— they

00:46:31.620 - 00:46:47.040

might not know my name completely, but they know who I— what I look like and stuff like that. So they just have that sense of reverence when they start talking to me. Not because I'm Asian, but because personality-wise, I, you know-you know, show what I could do.

00:46:47.590 - 00:46:56.810

And they see it. I'm just rambling, okay? Yeah. No, you're completely fine.

00:46:56.880 - 00:47:10.750

I am enjoying these answers. [RJ: Okay.] You worked for private companies as well as for the government? [RJ: Yes.] I wanted to ask if there were any differences in working

00:47:10.780 - 00:47:32.000

for either, and if you have a preference? Uh-uh—private sector, commercial sectors, there's a little loose in terms of— I mean, there's al— in-in any type of business, there's always, like, expectations, standards, and responsibilities

00:47:32.030 - 00:47:49.990

for all coworkers and all teams to produce. And, you know, show that you're productive, regardless, you know, if it's the government, or whether it's the private sector. But I do notice, after working for the government, you know, projects like that,

00:47:50.640 - 00:48:08.360

they're more strict, just like the military, you know, working for the military and being in a military environment. As opposed to when it comes to deadlines and cost and so forth, you know, that might be hard to understand, you know, see or

00:48:08.420 - 00:48:27.250

understand, but they are more strict in time and money, as opposed to the private sector or the commercial, you know, publi-public sectors. So, not that much though, but, you know, they do tend to be a little bit more strict.

00:48:29.010 - 00:48:45.260

And if you say this-this will be due at this time, unless there is a major accident or a major catastrophe or something that you didn't anti-anticipate, then that's the deadline. This is, like— that's for the government.

00:48:46.000 - 00:49:03.260

But for private sectors, if you mention a date, a due date, then it's more—it's a—it's assumed or it's accepted that it can change, because they're more loose or relaxed that way.

00:49:04.190 - 00:49:20.680

So, those are-those are some of the differences between those two. Do you have a preference for specific jobs, and/or what has been your favorite project to work on so far?

00:49:23.420 - 00:49:43.120

I enjoy all my projects, because they give me a challenge. Especially if it's a-a new challenge, like a new code, a new language and new applications, or more interesting applications or more challenging, I'm more interested in that.

00:49:43.660 - 00:50:01.110

But I don't have any preference other than that. I mean, I'm there for the project, you know, to do well, to excel, to learn, and to share my knowledge to junior programmers or even intermediate programmers at the same level, and contribute the best

00:50:01.110 - 00:50:12.540

I can. I think that's what they're trying to do over—ac-across the board. Regardless if it's government or non-government, they're trying to, like, focus on the team. Are you a team player?

00:50:12.540 - 00:50:26.810

Do you know how to communicate? Do you—are you honest? Do you, you know, know how to manage your time, know how to gauge, how much time you will take to

00:50:26.810 - 00:50:44.520

do this project? Do you-do you show competence, you know, in time management and, you know, the responsibilities you do. Do you ask questions when you don't know things? So... yeah, it's—

00:50:45.900 - 00:51:03.100

that's what, you know, that's what the business world is like, regardless if it's government or non-or non-government. They-they want—especially in today's condition and in today's economy, where people are being cut, you know, there's more competition

00:51:03.100 - 00:51:21.040

than always, you know. People have to show—be at their best, and if they really don't—can't make it or have problems, you know, to go up to your management, let them know exactly, "This is what I need help on, or this is

00:51:21.100 - 00:51:40.410

what I don't understand." And it, you know, to be doing a project not by yourself like before, now it's—they focus on the teams. That's why there's so many—there is so many project meetings, because they want to make sure that they have,

00:51:40.750 - 00:51:56.190

you know, everyone has their assignments and understand what they're supposed to be doing and showcasing, you know, their progress, you know. Before, it used to be, "Oh, yeah, here's your-here's your task, you know, good luck," you know.

00:51:56.190 - 00:52:11.590

And you're never encouraged to, you know, form groups or, you know, communicate anything. Now, because everything is more competitive, you know, the structure is more, like, team-team building, communicating, being honest,

00:52:12.130 - 00:52:28.210

finding options. If you—and I—again, you know, people are strict on, you know, the deadlines, what you said-what you said, you know, people start remembering it. Unless there's something that you find or your team finds that are

00:52:28.210 - 00:52:47.770

discovered that was hamper—making you that. And then one of the things I've learned is to make, like, a better option, give them a better option without saying, "Oh, we need a few days to do this." But to—not to say that, but to say: "Here's another option,"

00:52:48.580 - 00:53:05.380

you know. It makes, you know, pitch that to them and to clients or, you know, to your higher ups. And make you look better, make your team look better, and progress fur-further. As opposed to before, where you just working on by yourself on two silos.

00:53:05.710 - 00:53:25.990

So, that, in the case is what the change in-in the new workplace when, you know, the environment's more competitive. Speaking of today, what kind of future do you see for the computer science field with, you know, the constantly

00:53:25.990 - 00:53:42.710

evolving or advancing technology of today? Well, people, you know, human nature is against change. But there are few who love change and thrive on change. They're the ones that ditch, you know, forms company that disrupt other industry, you

00:53:42.710 - 00:53:57.410

know, their industry. But—so, that's expected, you know, there are always going to be disruptions in what we think or we thought, you know, or what business are—should—you know, how businesses should grow.

00:53:58.970 - 00:54:19.890

I believe that in terms of computers with the rise of A-AI and also machine learning, they are already programming the base code to learn on its own, based on training, as well as help with manufacturing, you know, with that type of

00:54:20.840 - 00:54:39.300

ability, they could, you know, automatically run processes like manufacturing or come up with AI-related solutions to disease, you know, for medicine or even like, dealing

00:54:39.300 - 00:54:56.030

with new planes or any type of—any typ—any place that requires innovations or a better way of understanding. Because of the fact that computer science started to implement more AI and machine learning approaches, will-will

00:55:00.100 - 00:55:18.130

programmers be wiped out because now they have AI or artificial machines that could do the work on their own? No. Because of the fact that we're—our AI and machine learning—machine, you know, components are right

00:55:18.460 - 00:55:34.280

now, they will always still be needing human programmers to help improve it. And, you know, what they think they could also be, you know, it can also be a lot of avenues for, you know, advancement or changes for that.

00:55:34.820 - 00:55:53.920

So, even though machine learning and also AI, you know, applications will run manufacturing and do it well, and think of new medicines and stuff like that, there’ll still be a need for human programmers to tweak and update the-the machine language or—to

00:55:54.630 - 00:56:08.300

ML or AI, you know. Well, we call it, like, programs. So, yeah, we'll still be around. And—but we're—but there always will be a big gap of,

00:56:09.170 - 00:56:28.400

"Here is where," you know, "how many openings there are for programming or computer field. And here's where," you know, "there's the," you know, "here's where we are at in terms of people graduating and people with a computer science degree, or even have, like, mixed with

00:56:28.400 - 00:56:45.590

people who have experience, like, 10 years of experience." So there's still a big gap. We have a greater need for programmers. Because there are just, like, a lot of things that you could do with it. You know, and even with machine learning and also AI applications, you know, helping out.

00:56:46.100 - 00:57:08.610

I mean, they're fast, they could do a lot of things good, but the gap is still, you know, gap for the need, you know, to be filled is still immense. What effects has the COVID-19 pandemic had on your field? You know what? It's a good thing that you asked, it's because more people

00:57:09.370 - 00:57:29.000

want, you know, in my field, wanted to remain remote. You know, when I go to interviews nowadays, for, you know, for another project, or if I'm interested in another company, you know, one of my requirements is, you know, this is my salary requirement—salary, you know,

00:57:29.070 - 00:57:44.180

expectations or range. But now, number two, you must be remote. You know, it must be remote. You know, I don't want it, you know, I could do hybrid which—as long as it's in the

00:57:44.270 - 00:58:02.190

Houston area. This is what other people will do too. They'll agree or compromise with hybrid as long as it's in their area. But they're not going to move to another location or another state. That's never going to happen again, I don't believe in my, you know, in my field.

00:58:02.190 - 00:58:20.300

But in terms of, you know, the computer science field, everyone's requiring, when they go to interviews, they're requiring their prospective employers, "We want it to be remote," you know. Or hybrid, but very short distance, you know, to a building.

00:58:20.970 - 00:58:34.480

That's about it. So...yeah. Do you think working remote has more benefits or consequences?

00:58:36.890 - 00:59:00.260

Um, when I think about it on my, you know, in my, you know, on my situation, you know, if you work remotely, you tend to spend more time or indulge a lot of your time on the program, in-in your task where, you know, time

00:59:00.650 - 00:59:19.140

flies and then you're still sitting down, which is unhealthy if you're doing it more than eight hours, but less than eight hours, then it's fine. But more than eight hours, just sitting in front of the computer terminal, because you're remote, that could probably lead

00:59:19.610 - 00:59:32.140

to not socializing a lot, going out, you know, as you would expect or want. But that's the consequences of it. Because it becomes addicting.

00:59:33.170 - 00:59:45.240

The pro—doing programming becomes addicting. You want to get that solution. You want to, you know, make your deadlines. And, you know, you don't have to go anywhere to be productive.

00:59:45.240 - 00:59:53.060

You just stay where you are at. And that's what a lot of people are doing. They're staying where they're at. They're not going outside the house.

00:59:53.060 - 01:00:08.510

So, even though there was a pandemic, we didn't know about it. I mean, in our-in our minds it's like, "Okay, what do we need to do next?" Not what we should do next in terms of how we're going to store food, where we gonna get our next food. But how can we become more productive

01:00:10.360 - 01:00:23.130

and finish up our task? You know, once we did that, we have another task. And we focus on, you know, days on that as well. So, whatever is happening in the world, doesn't, like, come into our

01:00:23.180 - 01:00:42.350

mindset, because they're already busy with other things to take care of. And we don't—as I said, we don't have to go anywhere or, you know, meetings become more relevant, you know, become—meetings, you know, start popping up because, you know, since we're not meeting face to face anymore or not

01:00:42.350 - 01:00:58.960

that often. So meetings, you know, having more meetings is something that we all accept as a price for, you know, working remotely. So—but I enjoyed it. I mean, this is what I wanted to do in the first place, even before there was the

01:00:58.960 - 01:01:18.570

internet. It's, like, I want to work from home, not go anywhere, you know, just to be productive, I just want to stay home, be connected, do my work, and go for another job, you know, another project or do another task. In fact, after this interview, I'm gonna be jumping into my government computer and just

01:01:18.570 - 01:01:33.040

start working, you know-you know, making my deadlines, my-my Monday deadlines, and, you know, debugging my program. It doesn't matter if it's like holidays or anything like that as long as you have connection, you could work.

01:01:33.760 - 01:01:49.780

And that's an expectation. But, you know, we, you know, in the government, they're really strict on hours. If you say it's going to be—taking five hours, it's got to be done in five hours, unless there is major, major reasons, you know, that it's

01:01:49.780 - 01:02:09.230

gonna take a little bit longer. It's better just to, like, you know, finish up that task earlier, but not, you-you know, once you say, five hours, it's five hours, that's your limit. Or if it's this day, it's this day, unless there's need, you know, unless you could justify, you know, the pushback, you know, for another

01:02:09.230 - 01:02:28.870

date. So, those are some of the things that, you know, me as being a remote programmer, have to think about when we are, you know, gauging our-our task and our hours. This is the concluding question for this section: do

01:02:28.870 - 01:02:47.870

you have any advice for current computer science students or people aspiring to build a career in computer science? Yes. The trend is most likely going to be, you know, the work environment's going to be—most likely be hybrid slash

01:02:48.390 - 01:03:04.080

one hundred percent remote. And companies are open to that, especially with it being COVID. So therefore, that is an option that you put on, you know, on the-on the table when you're negotiating with your employer or your prospective

01:03:04.080 - 01:03:19.000

employer, you know. "I could do hybrid, as long as it's within my house, you know. Half days, you know, I work from the office, half days I work from home. Or I work 100% from home." So that's that environment.

01:03:20.450 - 01:03:36.750

Salary is going to increase because of the need for programming. So therefore, it is best to pro-, you know, promote yourself by developing more skills, which means, you know,

01:03:37.400 - 01:03:55.850

studying more online, because there's, like, more resources. Going to competitions, you know, because my—one of my background is data science. So, there is a, you know, there's a website called Kaggle that gives all sorts of information, all sorts of competitions, all sorts of social

01:03:56.340 - 01:04:15.730

in (?) right now means to connect with other data scientists or, you know, and so forth, and improve your-improve your skills there. There's like, online, good-good, reputable online education, you know, centers, like E Dimity (?).

01:04:15.790 - 01:04:32.820

You know, in other, you know, other places—even colleges, they're offering, you know, free-free or fee-based, you know, classes as well. So, the point is: get yourself in front of more people

01:04:33.380 - 01:04:55.500

by going through competitions, going through, you know, building projects on your own, and there's also—set up, like, a GitHub-GitHub account where you could store a lot of your projects in. And make a link into your resume, or even go to LinkedIn

01:04:55.680 - 01:05:14.290

and write stories so that people could see, you know, your viewpoints as well as make connections with other professionals in there. Or join other—joining other clubs or agencies, you know, through LinkedIn. So, there's a lot of opportunities there.

01:05:14.360 - 01:05:29.860

And that's only—that's the basic, and, you know, it's gonna take a person—it took me a long time to do mine. You know, you get it set up that way, it's, like, probably like 10 years, but it was consistent.

01:05:30.650 - 01:05:46.830

I built my skills up, I showed what I could do, I saved my projects, my applications, put it up into GitHub. And, you know, there are times where I didn't finish a project. But at least they could see my thinking.

01:05:47.500 - 01:06:00.800

That's what they're doing. They're not only gonna test you. But they're also gonna look at your coding, see what kind of coding styles. Is it consistent? Or is it, you know, explain this to me or explain that to me.

01:06:00.980 - 01:06:16.580

So you could explain it. Again, communication skills, working with a team. There's the—I think it's really, you know, a very true stereotype that programmers tend to be isolated and want to do their

01:06:17.070 - 01:06:31.180

own thing. The trend now is to work with groups. The trend now is to be ope-openly communicative, team player, communicate, enunciate, make sure that you're able to present your project.

01:06:31.920 - 01:06:47.120

And, you know, if we could do these things—I mean, I'm going different areas here—but if we could do these things, then, you know, you-you know, you're on the road to success. It's gonna take some time, I think, basic two

01:06:47.930 - 01:07:03.410

years commitment to do all these things, to set it up. And just like businesses in the .com era. They're, you know, or when the internet starts to become more commercialized. You learn, you grow, and then you explain it

01:07:03.410 - 01:07:19.900

to them. Honesty is very important. If it's—if your answer is a little vague or shady, then that's going to cause some doubts to your prospective employer. And if there are some doubts, if they have doubts for you right now, you know,

01:07:21.100 - 01:07:39.240

then it's going to be much harder for you to get rid of that doubt from them later on down the line. So you need to get them a hundred percent onboard with you, and, like, have that trust in you. And you do that by showing your code or your sample codes, explaining it.

01:07:40.450 - 01:07:54.090

Demonstrate that you are not afraid of being with other people who are—have different characters and, you know, character traits. Or, you know, how do you handle like conflicts of character, you know, what do you do?

01:07:54.170 - 01:08:09.120

For me, I'd be diplomatic about it. I'm willing and big enough to know that I could be wrong. And I hope they are humble enough to, you know, accept that about themselves as well, and we could discuss it.

01:08:09.800 - 01:08:21.930

You might be heated, but, you know, but we're passionate. That's the reason why it's a little bit heated. But we do make progress that way, as opposed to being siloed. Here's your work. Go at it.

01:08:22.230 - 01:08:31.840

Here's your work, go at it. And you don't collaborate. Collaboration is very important. So, learning how to communicate, you know, and

01:08:32.290 - 01:08:50.630

understanding each other people, whether it be their culture, or traditions or whatnot. Learn to adjust and work together that way. So, people-people skills in, you know, being a team player. So that's what—those are things that I would suggest as a

01:08:50.630 - 01:09:10.710

starting point, you know, as a starting point. So, you know, you get to know more on what to do as you progress. Thank you for answering all those questions about your career. We're going to move into your experience teaching in South

01:09:10.730 - 01:09:26.910

Korea. [RJ: Okay.] So, what was the experience of teaching English in South Korea like? Did you have to develop your own curriculum? Was the environment high stress or low stress?

01:09:29.900 - 01:09:48.860

Well, the thing is though, I did not—I never had to develop my own-my own curriculum because the school that I was teaching at focused mostly on English speaking, and not necessarily structured grammar, teaching structured grammar, because I only taught

01:09:49.230 - 01:10:07.200

college and business level English. So, the caliber of students are college students who already practice English anyway, since they were in junior high. Or a businessman who needs to know exactly how to communicate with

01:10:08.130 - 01:10:26.830

other English speakers that, you know, from different backgrounds. So, I go about having time to teach them by having them be not afraid to practice, you know. Help everyone speak, be comfortable, get that

01:10:26.860 - 01:10:43.530

environment. So, in that sense, it was not stressful. It was more like trying to motivate my students to speak. They might not sound, you know, their pronunciation might be off or their grammar or whatever is off.

01:10:43.720 - 01:11:01.990

But they're smart, you know. The caliber of people at that level that I teach, it— they're smart, they could pick it up, they could see who's doing well. You know, we go over culture, American culture, or Western culture, go

01:11:01.990 - 01:11:19.360

over movies, understanding their phrases and stuff like that. We do it constantly, too. I mean, just like going to the gym, you need to exercise, but you start slow. And my students have been doing this for a long time now.

01:11:19.360 - 01:11:36.010

So they could come to my class, every single day that I'm teaching or scheduled to teach. And that gives the—gives them that confidence to speak normally. Because part of-part of speaking a different language, if

01:11:36.210 - 01:11:53.590

English is not your primary, is more like getting comfortable to initiate, to talk. And that's what the teacher has to do. As I said, you know, prior, you know, I was influenced by my teachers. They made it—they made their subjects, you know, that their teaching,

01:11:53.740 - 01:12:12.780

interesting, thought provoking, you know, helped me feel confident about, you know, the topic so that I might not ace all the test, but at least I have a good grade in it. And for, you know, for my students in Korea who were trying to learn English,

01:12:13.360 - 01:12:30.070

it's more to get them to feel comfortable about their English, and not feel competitive enough where-where looking down on someone else, and therefore they're gonna be shutting up and not practicing. My—again, my level of English I was teaching them is to speak normally.

01:12:30.910 - 01:12:47.100

And if the teacher is speaking normally and making right pronunciation, they're gonna also do the same thing. They just need to, like, practice more, and that will make them be successful. What kind of matrix do we use in order to judge?

01:12:48.320 - 01:13:03.040

Well, you know, for them, it's more like, feeling comfortable. That's the-that's the matrix, that's the determination. It's like, if-if I'm being successful or if they're being successful. Do you feel comfortable?

01:13:03.190 - 01:13:15.000

Do you understand what we're talking about? Is the speed of my English too slow–too slow for you? Or too fast for you? Yes, a lot of people say it's my English is too fast.

01:13:15.230 - 01:13:31.260

But I am not the, you know, I am more like—that is not fast. I mean, for me, I'm not-not fast English speaker. There are people who speaks English faster. To report, even I have to tell them: "What did you just said?

01:13:31.630 - 01:13:49.430

It's English, we're talking in English, but— and I know, and I'm comfortable with English, you know, I know you’re comfortable with your English, but you're going too fast for it." So, if anything, not to be inti-intimidated by speed or, you know, pronunciation or even like

01:13:50.210 - 01:14:04.510

terminology, idioms and so forth. So, I tried to do it that way. I tried to expose them to that and make them talk. And that's how they get good grades in my mind, you know, I don't keep grades but,

01:14:05.120 - 01:14:20.460

you know, they will feel comfortable and that's what they came there for. You know, that's why, you know, they pay the school for, so that they will feel comfortable with their English. They know a lot. They've been studying English since grade school, you know,

01:14:21.190 - 01:14:33.890

but they need to-need to be more comfortable. Now if I was trying to learn Spanish here, yes, I need someone to encourage me to, like, speak Spanish, if we talked about my-my Spanish. I'm not on that level with Spanish.

01:14:33.920 - 01:14:49.370

I'm more comfortable with English. So, that's what I tried to get with them. I know you mentioned this briefly before, but just to reiterate, what exactly were your reasons for teaching English in South Korea or

01:14:49.550 - 01:15:04.130

going to South Korea? Yes, because it was the dot—the time—it was the era of the .com bust. Meaning a lot of the companies that were .coms, you know, they're popping up left and right, but somehow there was a bubble and it burst.

01:15:04.770 - 01:15:24.220

So, a lot of companies starts to default, you know, with their agreement with venture companies, and a lot of the—these .com companies started to go out of business. And even though I have a lot of experience, it became more evident that my skills at that time was becoming more

01:15:24.220 - 01:15:39.470

expensive. So therefore not a lot of companies, especially startup companies, was willing to hire me because of that reason. So therefore, I had no job. So that's what led me to, like, seek other options and

01:15:39.850 - 01:15:56.880

temporarily teaching English was—was it—a—for a time being. Did you enjoy living in South Korea? Are there any—were there any specific cultural differences or shocks that you

01:15:56.880 - 01:16:14.840

particularly remember? Well, after spending—after my first month there, I, you know, got used to living there. But one thing that I find is not prejudice or anything like that, it's more like, everyone wants to be like

01:16:14.840 - 01:16:31.450

everyone else, more so. I'm used to growing up—for me, even though there was a standard, there's discipline, there's military life and stuff like that, but there was room for a lot of people to become individuals and to be expressing themselves differently, and it will

01:16:31.450 - 01:16:48.710

still be fine. But it seems to me when I was there, you know, within my first month there, everyone wants to, like, look the same? Not necessarily dress the same, but I can't distinguish between one person or another person because from their hair to their

01:16:50.750 - 01:17:07.770

answer to the questions that, you know—that's another thing too, I wanted them to express themselves clearly, and not think about the proper answer, because there is no proper answer. It's more like, this is a test for you to feel comfortable speaking to me, being a

01:17:07.770 - 01:17:24.390

native speaker. Because I see in my student's eyes is that they're looking at, you know, the left eye, right eye —they're looking at, “what is the best answer?” There is no best answer. It's more like a means for your expression, feel comfortable with your expression.

01:17:24.490 - 01:17:40.820

So, there's that cultural shock, because I'm sort of used to people being different, even though there is a standard, people expressing themselves differently. But my students were always asking or responding to me

01:17:40.820 - 01:17:56.500

with the generic right answer, which is, like, not what I'm asking for, not what I want. It's more like, I want to know what you think, not what the book thinks or what you think, or what other people think that the right answer is.

01:17:56.740 - 01:18:15.720

So, there's that I need to adjust to that as well. So, other than that, some of the culture items or holidays that I did not pick up initially before going there, I, you know, noticed and

01:18:16.280 - 01:18:31.960

they were good, they were fine, you know, to me. But the idea to be as same as everyone else, you know, it didn't really jive with me. So—but I just, like, you know, take it out and, you know, try to adjust

01:18:32.270 - 01:18:50.060

as I can. Interesting. [RJ: Yeah.] In your biography, you mentioned that you met your wife in South Korea? So only if you're comfortable, would you like to share more details about how you

01:18:50.060 - 01:19:03.010

met? Oh, through friends, actually. And, you know, it's really funny, because, you know, it was, like, on a Thanksgiving week, and I was, you know,

01:19:03.900 - 01:19:22.760

I was, you know, minding my own business, we don't, you know—my family was far away and so forth, so therefore, you know, she called me up and she says, you know-you know, "I talked to my parents, and they approve." And I was like—and we're just was—like we were still dating.

01:19:22.810 - 01:19:39.500

It's like, marriage was not into the– into the fray, because A) didn't have that much money and-and stuff like that. So, starting to struggle to—but she said, you know, in her broken English, is like: "We could get married, you know, December

01:19:40.410 - 01:19:56.480

25th." You know, I was like, "Uh, okay." I was thinking December a year from now. Not December 25th the next month. So I was, like, I was freaking out. It's like, "Oh my gosh," it's like, "How is this possible," and stuff.

01:19:56.480 - 01:20:08.930

And, you know, I wanted to, like, express to her that we should delay, you know, or we should hold off and stuff like that. But she was determined. So we got married on December 25th. And, you know,

01:20:11.590 - 01:20:27.410

started living, you know, having life together in Korea and then—for three years and had my daughter there and... one of my friends from, you know, the United States said: "Hey Roman, you've been there—you're still there already?

01:20:27.610 - 01:20:41.340

You're still there. I mean, are you becoming a Korean citizen or something? Or do you want to do it?" I was like: "No, I'm still teaching English, okay? [laughs] I'm just, like, still, trying to save up money." And that was the one thing too, it's, like, saving up money at the same time.

01:20:42.500 - 01:21:00.840

My wife had some, you know, the visa processes and stuff like that. It's better just to save money and to live there, you know, because the dollar was more, you know, you know, you could do a lot more with a dollar and stuff like that. So, that was fine.

01:21:01.290 - 01:21:18.620

And, you know, Samantha was still too young to move around or to go on a plane. And so, therefore, we had to leave when she was—as a baby able to be on a plane. And get my wife's paperwork, you know, her green card

01:21:19.040 - 01:21:35.100

done over there, you know, and so forth. Then—I remember the day that, you know, we're trying to go for the interview. And I was like, "Okay, let's get it in real [cuts out]." And one thing about going to South-South Korea, it's more, like—it gives

01:21:35.100 - 01:21:49.060

me a headache just to be there. And I didn't know what it is, but I was, you know, the embassy—U.S Embassy wasn't the—was in the capital. So, we got there early, you know, very early, waited in line, and then we waited a

01:21:49.160 - 01:22:06.340

whole day, and we—they still didn't call us up and we start, you know, my wife started worrying about, you know, the rejection that some of the, you know, some of the people that are in the line, you know, ahead of us. So we were, you know, she was worried about it, but when, you know,

01:22:07.780 - 01:22:19.620

five minutes before five—the, you know, that's when they, you know, when office closed, they finally call us up. And I was like: "How are we supposed to do this interview in five minutes? I mean this is-this is impossible.

01:22:19.640 - 01:22:33.270

This is for her green card and so forth”. So, you know, the guy just came up to me, you know, we, you know, both of us went to the-the-the-the window, and there's, like, the guy and also a lady.

01:22:34.160 - 01:22:51.450

And the guy only focused on the—both-both of them actually focused on me and asked me one question. They asked me: "Oh, what kind of job do you, you know, are you choosing—are you deciding to choose?" Because in one of the application, I said, you know, you know, this is what I—this is my background, this is what I want to do, and I

01:22:51.500 - 01:23:07.610

think I'm getting a-a job and stuff like that. So they don't—the only question they asked me is like, they asked me, in, you know, for my wife's green card interview. "What," you know, "what job do you decide—are you deciding to do?" I said: "Any

01:23:07.610 - 01:23:22.660

programming job that, you know-you know, that I could start working on as soon as we get there." That was it. That was one question and then they, you know, signed everything, and my wife didn't have to say anything, you know.

01:23:23.180 - 01:23:37.230

They were more concerned about finances, because all the paperwork was a wait (?) process and stuff like that. So that was done. And I was like—even that, you know, we were all both relieved that we were approved,

01:23:37.430 - 01:23:52.060

you know, she's been approved. But as I said, being in, you know, South Korea, is like, giving me a headache. So we immediately left, you know, using the bus going back to Jeonju and stuff like that. So that's really fun, you know.

01:23:52.890 - 01:24:07.890

Worrying the whole day, getting headache, and this—only having, like, a five minute, one question interview. That's it [laughs]. I was, like, "What kind of interview is this? [laughs] It's, like, I don't understand it." So, it was—yeah,

01:24:10.010 - 01:24:26.760

overall, it was fun. It was enjoyable, And so I got to, like, save a lot of money. My students were great, because of the caliber of students that were in my class. They take me out, you know, places in Jeonju were

01:24:27.040 - 01:24:44.900

like packed, but there's a lot of things you could do, you know. A very short amount of, you know, don't have to walk that far or anything like that. And the pay was good, get to save up a lot of money and, you know, and so forth. So, it's a good place to, like, visit.

01:24:46.950 - 01:25:06.710

And I think it was enough, you know, the right amount of time for me to stay there before coming back to the United States. We will come back to the—you settling with your family in the States in a bit.

01:25:08.100 - 01:25:25.600

I wanted to touch on your military enlistment. You listed that you enlisted in the Navy Reserve. So, I wanted to ask what kind of experience was it and what were your reasons for

01:25:26.200 - 01:25:38.690

joining? Okay. Basically, I wanted to be, you know, my family has been-has been in the military since Second World War. My—every family member has been in every-every branch of the service except for

01:25:38.690 - 01:25:55.570

the Coast Guard. We've been in, you know, in every US conflict imaginable, until the fall of the Berlin Wall, fell. Once that happened, all the grandchildren decided: "We're not going to go there military anymore." It's like, you know, "Why-why should we?

01:25:55.740 - 01:26:12.910

We don't have to serve anymore, because there were—the Soviet Union collapsed." So we just decided to focus on, you know, the civilian, you know, pub-public sector and so forth. And what—that's what got me and-and gro-growing

01:26:13.780 - 01:26:30.010

up in a military family, you know, wanted to become an officer, but things get in the way, so therefore, I couldn't finish my education earlier enough to, you know, get commissioned and so forth.

01:26:30.010 - 01:26:46.020

So, the next thing you could do is be a reservist, you know. Weekend warrior and so forth. In terms of my whole experience, it's not as glamorous as you might think, because they own it, you know, even if it's the Navy,

01:26:46.580 - 01:27:02.990

being a navy reservist, we're only weekend warriors. And also, they don't assign us to a ship, especially in my field, which is information system and computer science. They only assigned me to, like, the local branch, the

01:27:03.210 - 01:27:19.270

Navy Reserves office. Why is that? It's because we know enough of the, you know, as a—as my background is in information systems, computer science, you know, if caught, for some odd reasons, we knew enough about the-the

01:27:20.230 - 01:27:37.030

workings and the system that the government and the military systems to be a liability. So it's better just to keep us, you know, inland rather than overseas or, you know, in the field or whatever.

01:27:37.670 - 01:27:54.340

And work on improving their systems, learning as much as possible that way. And it's only a two year project or a two year-two year enlistment, could say for-for that.

01:27:54.400 - 01:28:11.710

So, yeah, going instead—go—it's, like, being dressed up in a military uniform and going into an office. That's it. Not many drills. Because we're weekend warriors, we still have to be dressed appropriate

01:28:12.540 - 01:28:31.600

and address our superiors as, "Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir." And do some cadences once in a while for drills, but that's about it. But for me, it's, like, I would think it's more, like, for me to, like, learn a lot. You know, it's a learning experience, you know, with programs and stuff like that.

01:28:31.600 - 01:28:44.120

And you could tack it on to your resume. And people could see that. Would you say you had more of an idea of what you were getting into, having lived in a military family?

01:28:45.460 - 01:29:03.150

Oh, yes, the responsibility, the strictness, and also the-the burden, as well as the stress of, you know, not failing but excelling. Yes, I do know that, you know. That's the reason why I just wholeheartedly just joined with no

01:29:03.150 - 01:29:15.330

hesitation or any doubts. Because if you do, then you're not going to perform that well. And it's going to know—it's going to show. So, I already know what I was getting myself into.

01:29:16.850 - 01:29:30.100

And, you know, it's a good thing because I enjoyed it and so forth. So... For the sake of time, we're gonna get into our next section [RJ: Okay.] talking more—

01:29:30.100 - 01:29:42.640

How much do we have on time? Um, there's not really a limit, but just because I have numerous questions left, I think. [laughs] Okay, okay.

01:29:43.440 - 01:30:03.370

Um, firstly, before we get into Houston CMI, can you briefly explain how you came here to Houston? Oh, yes, my wife, her background is environmental engineering. And then when we moved into—to Los

01:30:03.370 - 01:30:20.190

Angeles, her initial thought was to become, like, a teacher. But there's a lot of restrictions in terms of requirements, especially since English was not her first language. So the next thing is to become a nurse because she was

01:30:21.920 - 01:30:41.130

more—the-the steps to becoming a nurse, especially a certified registered nurse, was not as stringent, you know, as opposed to becoming a teacher, coming from where English is not your first language. So therefore, she decided to pursue the nursing field instead.

01:30:42.050 - 01:30:57.840

And there was a program that allowed her to get her LVN. And, you know, if she was selected, and she was, so it was a free program, it took one year, and she passed all her grade, you know, classes and so forth.

01:30:58.240 - 01:31:19.500

And she became a, you know, licensed vocational nurse. Now, she wanted to pursue that even further, and she got her, you know, she became an RN. But the LVN to RN Bridge Program in Los Angeles, there was a waiting list that's

01:31:19.500 - 01:31:38.390

spanned like two years worth of, you know, applicants. So, she-she wanted to become a registered nurse, but there was no way and the schools wasn’t open. So therefore, she talked to some of the-the people here in Houston

01:31:38.390 - 01:31:54.480

CMI. They said: "Hey, you know, the LVM program is not, you know, there—the registered nurse or the bridge program for—to become an RN, there's no waiting list. So you could come over here. And also, you know, in coming over here, you know, you could get a good job

01:31:54.550 - 01:32:12.750

quickly." So that's what she, you know, that's why we moved from Los Angeles to Houston, because of that. And it didn't matter to me, as I said, because tech field was very important, and, you know, there will always be jobs

01:32:12.750 - 01:32:25.420

wherever I go. So, we came here, two weeks after Hurricane Ike. And then, you know, she-she started working on the—becoming a R—getting her RN license.

01:32:25.990 - 01:32:39.890

And I started to work and Samantha started going to school. And so, that's how we became, you know, came here. And the people that—the friends that we do know that was helping her, giving the information, they're from Houston CMI.

01:32:40.640 - 01:33:03.110

So we joined, you know, the church, and have been serving ever since. That's how that connection is with the Houston CMI. Before continuing in—delving into your experience with the Houston CMI, we're gonna backtrack to your childhood [RJ:

01:33:03.110 - 01:33:20.080

Okay.] just for a question. In your biography, you mentioned that when developing your faith for Christianity at a young age, you lived your life sort of differently than other kids? And so, the first part of the question is if you can elaborate on that.

01:33:20.490 - 01:33:37.640

Secondly, Catholicism holds a major religious presence in the Philippines, so, I wanted to specifically ask what made you gravitate towards evangelical Christianity in particular? Okay. Well, basically—I did mention that

01:33:39.580 - 01:33:58.840

my mom especially influences us with spiritual matters, and religious faith, and prayer. Even though they were—they profess to be Roman Catholic, they were not practicing.

01:33:59.410 - 01:34:16.000

In fact, we were not practicing at all. We just suddenly needed a very basic, which is prayer, mass, offering and catechism and so forth. Now, where I diverge from that is more like my

01:34:17.450 - 01:34:37.230

parents were not totally devoted or focused a lot more effort into their spiritual matters, even though they do dealt (?) with it, you know, and-and, you know, share that with us. But when I came, you know, to start reading the Bible, it sort

01:34:37.230 - 01:34:57.260

of set my mindset and my beliefs a little bit different from my-from my parents or even my brothers. So I start following and learning more about, you know, things that I-I couldn't learn, you know, going to mass

01:35:00.010 - 01:35:18.290

or...because at that time, you know, reading the Bible for Roman Catholics was not encouraged or—so basically only evangelicals or Protestants would. So I started reading the Bible, you know, cover to cover and-and get

01:35:18.290 - 01:35:33.530

to understand a little bit more, and understand why I have to pray, why I have to, you know, what is the biblical truth, what is truth, what's history and so forth. So that way it encouraged or changed as a person to

01:35:33.920 - 01:35:51.220

behave and live a life that's different from other people, other kids. Does that make it bad? No, it is more like persons developing their own-their own way, in expressing him—expressing their own beliefs,

01:35:51.870 - 01:36:08.780

developing their own beliefs. Now in history, people can or children can diverge, or deviate from their parents' spiritual beliefs, but it's more like personal conviction, personal faith, personal walk with

01:36:08.780 - 01:36:28.300

God. And this is what made me different from, you know, the other kids whose families were Roman Catholics or even my family. And the thing is though, it was easier because for me, because they did not enforce the-the Roman Catholic restriction or

01:36:29.180 - 01:36:38.990

provide restrictions for that. You know, it's more, like, here's what we were taught, and, you know, this is what we should believe, and so forth. We go to Sunday school just for that.

01:36:40.500 - 01:37:00.610

But by reading the Bible on my own, praying and meeting with other people, other kids, that, you know, that comes from the same background as Protestants, you know. And again, because there's no other restriction, you know, that's what

01:37:00.630 - 01:37:17.200

helped build my faith, and develop my faith. It might be different from my-my family, but, you know, it is what it is and that's what I believe God wanted me to do. So, that's what I meant when I said I was different from other kids—or

01:37:17.460 - 01:37:31.440

felt different from other kids. Because some of the other kids, you know, follow whatever their parents', you know, beliefs are, rather than practicing their own, you know, faith or belief.

01:37:31.890 - 01:37:48.750

Getting back into, you know, the Philippines in terms of their religious status. It's not necessarily—it's predominantly Roman Catholic, but it's starting to switch to Protestantism and more evangelical, either that or Pentecostal.

01:37:50.920 - 01:38:09.050

But there's only, like, one family that I run across that were Filipino and they were Mormons. There is only one family. And I, you know, I already met, you know, the guy in when I was in college. But there is the first and only time I met a Filipino that was [laughs] a

01:38:09.050 - 01:38:30.600

Mormon. So it's, like, okay, everyone else is Pentecostal, Protestant, or-or Roman Catholic. So, now you are a pastor at Houston CMI. So, what made you pursue ordainment and

01:38:30.800 - 01:38:50.590

have you ever wanted to pursue a full time job as a pastor? I wanted, you know, ever since I started reading the Bible, and, you know, have my own convictions, my own faith, and versed a lot (?) with Christ, yes, that wanted to delve more

01:38:50.710 - 01:39:07.330

into herd, you know, becoming a pastor and a shepherd for people. But to make it, like, a primary, you know, profession, no. I wanted to more focus on the science and technology

01:39:08.300 - 01:39:28.240

aspect of it. You could still be a lay pastor, and have a second job as a—anything else. But you will be considered a lay pastor rather than a full blown pastor. The difference is more like income will come from the church if you're a professional,

01:39:28.620 - 01:39:46.920

you know, full blown pastor, as opposed to a lay pastor where, you know, you may or may not be paid by the church, but, you know, you'll—you have another job as well during the day, which provides, you know, financial aid for you and your family.

01:39:47.780 - 01:40:04.670

Conviction, to help out more by being a pastor is one reason why I want to be a pastor. And as I said before with other things that really motivates me or make me excited is more like, I start

01:40:05.890 - 01:40:26.430

living in a way that, you know, or see the bright light in, you know, helping people and, you know, the joy in-in helping out people, and ministering to them and their needs. Listen, when they need, you know, when they have problems and so forth to

01:40:26.940 - 01:40:44.580

understand the deeper things, you know, about God. And having light (?), that also makes me excited about learning. Those are the reasons why I wanted to become a pastor. You don't have to be, but that's where I felt that I could better serve

01:40:45.280 - 01:41:03.010

the body that way. In your words, what is the mission of Houston CMI? And/or what is the future of the church? Well, basically, it is to be ready for Christ, His

01:41:03.010 - 01:41:22.240

return. In the meantime, the Great Commission is what we should be focusing on, you know, sharing our faith with other people. Giving them the opportunity to choose, as well as be exposed to the word of God, the light of truth, you know.

01:41:22.440 - 01:41:37.780

Because there's darkness everywhere, and people have their own belief, you know, my mo—, you know, to be honest, it's more like, a lot of people's beliefs leads them to dead ends or, you know, spiritual suicide.

01:41:37.780 - 01:41:56.010

But the thing is though, as Christians, as mission for our church, as established by Jesus Christ before he left for, you know, for heaven, the church's mission is to share Christ to others through sharing the gospel or sharing life to other people.

01:41:56.650 - 01:42:12.910

Are we trying to force, you know, our ways to other people? No, we're just giving them an opportunity to experience and see the truth, and let them decide. Because ultimately when Christ returns, everyone's going to be made accountable

01:42:12.950 - 01:42:31.680

for the time, the effort in their life before God. It's like Christ will ask each and every one of us: "What have you done?" You know, "I gave you all this, you know, opportunity, the word of God was given to you, what did you decide to do?" So, that is what CMI—(inaudible)—Houston

01:42:34.210 - 01:42:46.340

CMI's mission and-and mission of the church is, and should always be. Should we neglect people who are different? No. Should we reach out to them? Yes. Should we know them?

01:42:46.340 - 01:43:02.540

Yes, obviously, and share the love of Christ with them. You know, it doesn’t make a difference, you know, as long as the Spirit teaches us and shows us: "Hey, this is the person you should be sharing with," you know. People have their opportunity, people have their time, that God gives them time

01:43:03.220 - 01:43:25.500

to know about Christ, and it's up to them what they do with it, you know. We're not forcing them, we're just giving them a choice, so... On a different note, relating to Houston, have you interacted with the Filipina—the

01:43:27.190 - 01:43:42.200

Filipino community in Houston? Do you have any hopes for the Filipino community in Houston or further, in America? Yes. To be honest, ever since we got here in Houston...

01:43:46.170 - 01:44:05.110

they're everywhere. Just like the Koreans and everyone else. And I am hopeful that just like with any human groups, that they will shine with their abilities and their God-given gifts to help their own community as well as other peoples'

01:44:05.110 - 01:44:21.390

communities. I don't see anything harmful, you know, I just certainly see them growing more. And, you know, their kids, you know, continuing on

01:44:22.220 - 01:44:42.030

with some of the traditions and so forth and, you know, being more recognized, and, you know, sharing, you know, their cultures to their next—to the next generations, and the traditions of the Filipinos to the next generation as

01:44:42.080 - 01:44:58.270

well. So, I don't see that stopping or hindering anywhere at all—or at any time. And I don't think there is anything like discrimination or anything like that that's in the way. Discrimination or prejudice these days is more hidden

01:44:59.050 - 01:45:14.410

and not as pronounced, you know, just like, you know, probably like in the 50s or 60s in America. You know, people are more open to knowing, you know, accepting the fact that you're different, or you're a different culture, and they're excited about

01:45:14.410 - 01:45:30.380

it. And so, therefore, you know, they're, you know, they expect, you know, good things to happen, you know, especially if you're in a community. Give them an opportunity to grow, they'll grow. So I don't think prejudice or

01:45:32.490 - 01:45:48.980

any type of restrictions is going to be implemented, or, you know, the community—Filipino community will ever experience. But some people will say: "You-you just don't, you know, this doesn't happen everywhere."

01:45:49.050 - 01:46:08.460

But, true, it doesn't happen everywhere, but from where I'm standing and based on answering your question is more like, I don't see prejudice or open prejudice as, you know, being there. I feel people are, you know, society—American society is

01:46:09.070 - 01:46:26.690

different from what it was in the 50s and 60s, and groups, you know, different ethnic groups are allowed to grow and develop, and they have their own, you know, their own issues and so forth. But it's their own issues, and they, you know, everyone has their

01:46:26.720 - 01:46:42.950

challenges, and everyone shines, and everyone has been shining, you know, when they're given the opportunity to. So, that's my take, that is what I see. You know, going back from the military time, I—people will say-say: "Oh, from the

01:46:42.950 - 01:47:00.310

70s, didn't you experience any prejudice then, or restriction then, being non-American?" I never did. But then, again, it's like, what the military environment is more like, everyone is equal, you know, everyone follows the same standards.

01:47:00.500 - 01:47:17.650

And if you-if you don't follow the rules, then you will be punished. And that's how I saw people. That's how I saw, you know, society and life, being, you know, from the military background. So, that's how I see it.

01:47:17.890 - 01:47:26.170

You know, people will say differently. It's like, "I experienced this. I experienced prejudice." But I don't. I didn't see that at all.

01:47:26.520 - 01:47:43.500

And I still don't see that at all. You know, it bothers me or, you know, causes me to think a bit when someone just wants to stay in their own small group and not expand a bit, or learn other peoples' traditions and

01:47:43.500 - 01:48:00.980

cultures, and sort of respect it. I mean, you know, we're all in the same area, same small planet, so, you know, get along with each other. As we approach the end of this interview, I wanted to touch upon your

01:48:00.980 - 01:48:18.670

family. I wanted to ask: what is your daughter's relationship with her Filipino heritage? And what is your daughter's relationship with her Korean heritage? Well, at this point, she is—she has more exposure

01:48:19.590 - 01:48:37.370

to the Korean side and also the American side of the family. But in terms of the Filipino, it's limited. I have some Filipino friends, but, you know, and she doesn’t know them, and stuff like that.

01:48:37.440 - 01:48:56.820

But, you know, I think in terms of wha-what influence her the most is more like, American culture, than, you know, than the Korean culture. Then lastly, because of the fact that, you know, I myself, you know, don't deal that much with the Filipino

01:48:56.820 - 01:49:13.330

culture, she has, you know, limited exposure to the Filipino culture or Chinese culture. So, in fact, you know, in terms of language, there's only one language that—there's only one out of the five

01:49:13.330 - 01:49:28.780

languages that I'm supposed to know, that I've mastered, and that is English, or feel comfortable, which is English. Every other language that I'm supposed to know, including Filipino is, you know, I have to think about it or, like, struggle with it.

01:49:28.780 - 01:49:47.260

And—so therefore, I didn't teach her any of the traditions—as I-as I said already, growing up, I didn't know the difference between what's Western culture and what's Filipino culture, because I grew up accepting that everything was, like, Western culture. Everything was, you know, my culture.

01:49:48.170 - 01:50:05.740

So, people will say: "Oh, that's Filipino culture." It's like: "Really? I didn't know that." Or that's Western culture it's like, I didn't know that either. So, I don't know exactly how much exposure as well, you know, but if you're asking me directly, I

01:50:05.740 - 01:50:23.350

think she has limited exposure to the Filipino side of it. She doesn't know even the language, except for the fact that it's a derivative of Spanish. And she knows Spanish and—because she took some Spanish classes. But other than that, it's more Western,

01:50:23.840 - 01:50:41.710

more Korean, you know, exposure. Now, since she's going to college, and there's a lot of opportunities in college, she's more likely going to be exposed to other, you know, cul-cultures, you know, not only a Filipino, Chinese, or even a Korean, or

01:50:42.270 - 01:50:55.730

more, like, Vietnamese, or-or Japanese or-or, you know, whatever it may be. But as long as she has, like, spiritual standards that she lives by, that will be fine with us, you know.

01:50:56.140 - 01:51:13.950

So that, you know, that's how much exposure she has. Raising your daughter primarily in America, do you—or I would assume more particularly, your wife,

01:51:14.850 - 01:51:34.220

do you experience any cultural clashes with your daughter? Well, ever since junior high, and, you know, my daughter has, you know, been growing up with Western cultures, or Western

01:51:34.220 - 01:51:51.660

traditions, and habits and so forth. And, you know, it is, you know, it's-it's a standard clash with immigrant parent, especially moms, immigrant mom—Asian moms with

01:51:52.060 - 01:52:04.820

their Americanized children, whether it be boy or girl. There's been that, you know, and they have their arguments, and their ups and downs, even now, you know. Now that she's in college and stuff like that.

01:52:05.130 - 01:52:21.880

But I do pray that they will, you know, settle the differences, but it's going to be hard and difficult. And, you know, it's more like, we're in a Western country, we're in the United States where everyone has free choice and

01:52:21.880 - 01:52:40.260

so forth. So, you know, if you choose not to practice any-any of her Chinese, or-or Korean, or even Filipino, you know, heritage, or whatever, you know, and she just decided to do, like, American, that'd be fine with me.

01:52:42.120 - 01:52:58.690

So eventually they, you know, in terms of my wife and my daughter's relationship, eventually they have to work it out through prayer, and through constant communications. And eventually, my wife has to, like, let go sometimes, and let my

01:52:58.690 - 01:53:15.640

daughter, you know, stand on her own and make her own decisions that way. So, I tried to navigate both of them, you know, around in—towards that goal. And, you know, try to explain to my wife, you know, why things are the way they are.

01:53:16.880 - 01:53:34.300

So... and also to encourage my daughter to pursue new opportunities and to grow and develop herself. Would you say that Houston has been a good place for your daughter and for your family? I say yes.

01:53:35.320 - 01:53:55.450

Financially, culturally, and many other places like getting jobs and stuff like that projects, working remotely, opportunities around here in Houston more than any other place that I know of, New York, California, Los Angeles, you know.

01:53:56.660 - 01:54:13.640

So I think the move to Houston was a very good one. Thank God for that. And opportunities for, you know, Samantha to grow and meet new friends in college—good colleges as well. Houston has—Houston, Texas, has a good history.

01:54:14.820 - 01:54:24.880

So, something to be proud of. In fact, Texas has its own history too. So, you know, something to be proud of, being here too. And we've been here a long enough time.

01:54:25.030 - 01:54:44.550

So, you know, could say that I'm a Texan. So—rather than a Californian. Moving into a different subject, currently in the COVID-19 pandemic, with the escalating

01:54:45.660 - 01:55:06.740

crimes against Asian Americans, did you and your wife give any particular advice to your daughter? In all situations, we tell my daughter to stand firm, and also to pray to God, and to do the work, and

01:55:07.980 - 01:55:24.420

don't cause any problems with other people, in fact, try to work with other people. And Samantha is one that, you know, if she has some conflict, or she, you know, there's conflicts of people with her, then she moves around.

01:55:25.370 - 01:55:41.690

If this one group does not want her, she goes to another-another group, or she moves to a different location, or she makes adjustments and so forth. So, for her, it's been, you know, she's been successful and still-still growing.

01:55:42.520 - 01:56:02.890

And, you know, she gets an idea and is working on, you know, working on-working on developing her life, understanding, you know, the pros and cons of what's happening in the world. And we share with her what's going on, at least I share with her what, you know, things

01:56:02.890 - 01:56:17.770

that's going on, and what she should do, and how she should view the situations. But it's more like, as the need arrives. We can't anticipate what's going to happen, but we could just give her the basic

01:56:18.400 - 01:56:41.200

foundations to make her own decisions when it happens. Moving into your family's identity, I guess we could call it, as you have mentioned, your family has had such a long tradition of serving in the U.S

01:56:41.200 - 01:57:01.640

military. So with that being said, would you say you and your family identify as Filipino foremost or as Americans? Further, do you even see the two identities as separate? Actually, it's—as I sort of alluded already, but it's more,

01:57:01.640 - 01:57:16.940

like, the family—well, some members will-will want to still have that, you know, Filipino identity. But for me, I think it's a mix, you know, already.

01:57:17.460 - 01:57:35.200

And, as I said already, it's, like, I wouldn't know the difference between, you know, what was, you know, Filipino, what was Chinese, what was Korean, and so forth. I just take it as my culture, you know, I don't know what you would call it.

01:57:35.930 - 01:57:52.520

But it's this, it's this, a piece of this, a piece of this. So, I would do, like, more, like, more customize my own culture and live that way. But my—some of my family members, especially the older ones, would want to retain some of

01:57:53.460 - 01:58:10.640

the—and claim, like, this is Filipino or real Filipino. But for me, it was more, like—and that's what to me, set me apart from my other siblings too, because I think, you know, initially, I said, I would say that I'm an American Westerner, but as I grew up and learn, and understand, and see things

01:58:10.640 - 01:58:30.070

differently, I started seeing that I customized my own culture. I didn't know exactly what I would be calling it, except for “Roman's culture.” But, you know, it's the way that what I have learned, what I have understood, you know, a mixture of spiritual

01:58:30.070 - 01:58:48.200

beliefs, as well as, you know, heritage and so forth, that make it my own. And you can't say: "Oh you're Filipino," or "you're Chinese" or American, can't say that, because I'm-I'm mixing everything else and I—it's just, like, a

01:58:49.820 - 01:59:09.470

one big program and everything in that program is, like, all mixed up. You can't only say that: "You're this," where if you just take it out, take it out, you know, you'd be missing something that's already you. So that's how I see it, you know.

01:59:09.470 - 01:59:26.730

So what will happen in future? I'll still continue believing and living, you know, the self-made culture that I have, and sharing it with, you know, Samantha and grandchildren, and great grandchildren, if, you know, I

01:59:26.730 - 01:59:41.080

live to see them and stuff like that, and other people too. And I could still relate with the native Koreans, the native Filipinos, the native Spanish, the native, you know, Chinese relatives and stuff like that.

01:59:41.200 - 01:59:56.830

But if it comes down, you know, and we're—at-at this point, you know, we're still good at talking to each other and not being on each other's toes, because I sort of have different views. But if it comes down to it, then I have to say,

01:59:57.770 - 02:00:16.240

honestly, this is what I think I am and share that with them. And in my family, you know, there's so many different cultures, so many different people groups and stuff like that. Black, whites, Korean, Chinese,

02:00:17.730 - 02:00:30.250

Hispanics and so forth, you know. I think the only thing that we didn't have is an Aussie and a Western European. But everything else, we do have in the family.

02:00:30.710 - 02:00:47.220

So, you know, that, you know, that's who we are. We are not primarily Westerners (inaudible) or that stands out in our culture or our makeup. But, you know, we're not primarily Korean, or even like

02:00:47.220 - 02:01:04.310

Filipino, though we're a part of that, or they're-they're a part of us. So, I don't know, I think that's how I see it. And that's how I can continue to express myself when people ask me, it's like "Are you this? Are you that?" It's, like, "No, I'm me.

02:01:05.110 - 02:01:18.420

I am pure, boring me." So, you know, take it or leave it. That's what it is. That's who I am. That is such a great insight. Thank you so much for sharing such a unique perspective.

02:01:22.350 - 02:01:41.200

Relating back to your family, as I have learned in my classes, Filipino veterans, in particular, from World War II were, at the least, underrecognized and not acknowledged for their contributions to the

02:01:41.200 - 02:02:02.380

war. So I was wondering how—if it did, how did this affect you and your family identity-wise? It goes back to the question of do I felt like, whether I was being segregated or prejudiced on, you know, being Filipino.

02:02:03.150 - 02:02:17.500

I can't speak for my grandparents or my granduncles, because-because that was a long time ago. I focus on, you know, the time I was growing up, you know, in the 70s and 80s.

02:02:17.500 - 02:02:35.630

And, as I said, things changed. America has changed, you know, life is different. Segregation and also prejudice was once an established norm, but now it's more, like, going underground.

02:02:35.630 - 02:02:56.120

So therefore, it's, like, you know, people are more accepting of different people. And at least that's what I see and—when I work at my profession for example, everyone is primarily Asian. There's only, like, 10% that is black, or white, or any other groups and so forth.

02:02:56.200 - 02:03:13.650

But predominantly, the Asian culture. So, didn't see any prejudice or subjugation in the work field as well. Some people say, you know, "You're limited," or

02:03:14.320 - 02:03:34.690

will tell me that I'm limited, or you know, "You're blind" or something like that. But I'm saying what I honestly see in experience, you know, if you don't like it, I mean—can't say it any other way, you know, otherwise, I'll be lying and not being truthful, you

02:03:34.690 - 02:03:53.330

know. And this is for the record as well, so therefore, I have to be honest with what I do see. I mean, there is problems, but every human groups always have their problems. So we have every human groups have their relational issues with other human groups. So, there's only one race, there's

02:03:53.980 - 02:04:12.910

the human race, and therefore there's—I-I-I don't understand, you know, how people can justify saying that they're only Korean race, or Hispanic race, or—I grew up just, like, there's only one race, that's the human race and, you know, treat other people with

02:04:12.910 - 02:04:31.150

respect, and they will respect you and, you know, golden rules, and spiritual values, and family values, and share that with them. So, make it much easier, you know, to do—to live life, and to relate with people in society, especially right now.

02:04:31.580 - 02:04:43.650

Now, is it perfect? No, it's not. Human beings, we're all flawed. And as a result, our society is flawed. But we're making-we're making grounds, and as I

02:04:43.650 - 02:04:54.330

could see. But is there other things that we could do to improve? Yes, we can. There's other ways we could improve. But we're working towards it.

02:04:54.380 - 02:05:10.430

That's why we have time. That's why God gives us time to make those, you know, see those things and make those changes. Thank you for such a truthful and insightful answer. We're down to the last two final questions now.

02:05:10.520 - 02:05:22.160

[RJ: Only two?] Yeah. [RJ laughs] What would you like to be remembered for? Um,

02:05:26.360 - 02:05:40.940

generally, someone who made a difference, someone who—whose life was worth living. I don't want to do things that—and I realize that it's all for nothing, you know.

02:05:40.940 - 02:05:56.510

Hardships, there has to be a reason for all the hardships. Whether it's to learn something, to impart knowledge, or to learn something and impart that knowledge to other people, or the kids, and so for the next generation. But to primarily live a life worth living, and,

02:05:58.610 - 02:06:14.460

you know, helping out the best I can with, you know, building up other people. So those two things. And the final question: what advice would you leave for your

02:06:14.460 - 02:06:32.950

future generations? I would tell my future generation, which is everybody, all kids, to know who you are in front of God, and to establish, you know, and live by,

02:06:33.730 - 02:06:48.950

you know, spiritual truths that only God can share with you through His Word, and share that with other people. Obviously, you know, the golden rule, how to treat other people is, you know, in God's word.

02:06:49.650 - 02:07:03.640

And to live by your convictions. And to always know how to communicate, know how to be a team player—player. Find areas to improve, and, you know, always do a lot of roleplay

02:07:04.030 - 02:07:22.230

in terms of, if this situation happens, what am I going to be doing. And not to just be complacent, but to always be growing. In fact, that's the—what God expects from human life is to grow and bear fruit. Whether it's with, you know, building up a

02:07:22.230 - 02:07:38.730

relationship, or building up other people, or building yourself up, you know, you're supposed to be fruitful and using your time. And it's—we all have the same time, you know, that God has given us-given us same opportunities. And it doesn't seem so, then we just need to, like, focus

02:07:38.730 - 02:07:53.510

on looking for those opportunities. God makes our lives very special and unique. So, just because, you know, you don't have the same opportunities as some people, but God gives you other unique opportunities that makes you stand out.

02:07:54.400 - 02:08:11.350

So as I said, when, you know, part of cultural shock when I was in Korea, it's more, like, everyone wants to be someone, you know, to be the same as everyone else, which I found really shocking or disturbing or uncomfortable, because everyone's different.

02:08:11.350 - 02:08:29.460

And so for me, to develop yourself, have a sense of goal for the future. That's about it. And that's it. Thank you so much, again, for giving such comprehensive and detailed answers.

02:08:29.840 - 02:08:40.860

We, me speaking on the behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive, really do appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Anyway-any, you know, anytime.

02:08:41.090 - 02:08:41.940

Thank you so much.