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My name is Norie Guthrie from the Woodson Research Center at Fondren Library at Rice University. I am interviewing Robby Franklin. [Audio description: A man wearing a gray button up shirt and jeans sitting in a blue chair in front of a black background.] Today is Thursday, November 9th, 2023.

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This is part of the Houston Folk Music Archive Oral history project. Can you tell me about your early life? Sure. Let's see, I was born in, 1950.

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To Joan Franklin and Mildred Franklin. I was the third child of three boys. And was a research chemist, at the Humble Oil and Refining Company,

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where he worked for 30 years before, taking an endowed chair at Rice University chemistry department. He was,

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on mass spectrometry. My mother was a homemaker and, and mother of 3 to 3 of us. I attended, mostly public school.

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Up until ninth grade, when we moved into Houston, when my dad took the job at rice. And which point I went to Saint George. Graduate of Saint John's.

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And, started at University of Texas. Anything else? I mean, that's a pretty cursory thing. No, I mean,

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Just as a kind of a rice focused question. Okay. Did you come to the campus as a younger person, like I. Well.

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I with that, I was 14 when we moved here, and yes, I spent a lot of time on the rice campus. Certainly, at the library. I, played tennis on the tennis court.

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And, bought books at the bookstore. Hung out at the student center. And. Sure, if I was a real person and, you know, all of that, I watched for a long time here.

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Okay. According to your bio, you eventually decided to go to UT. Why did you choose University of Texas? I don't know.

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It I think it was written in the stars or something. My, both of my brothers, my father, and my uncle, my father's brother all went to University of Texas. And so I did, too.

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Saint George, of course, was is Welsh. And he has a small private school. They think that small private schools are the only thing going. And so they just assumed that I would go to some small liberal arts college,

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and I never had any thought of any serious thought of doing that. So you were kind of looking forward to a, a large campus, I guess. I don't know, you have to understand me at that age,

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and I know you don't, and I'm not sure I do, but, it, was just, it was just what I did. That's, That's all.

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Okay. I wish. Frankly, not interested in school. And I went there for, two years. I spent most of my time,

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protesting the war in Vietnam. Often in California, where my girlfriend was going to Stanford and the protests were better. And, I don't know, one thing I know there.

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And so, I was just not into it. Did you know the idea of going to play house was pretty alien to me? Okay. Yeah.

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So what brought you back to Houston? Yeah, I'm not exactly sure. Again, it's just what I did. I, from my,

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girlfriend was spending the summer here after her first year at Stanford and had something to do with it. But that's the best I could do.

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Everything I can do. Yeah. And then you decided to stay. Just because things happened that I really liked. Anderson Farrell was one of those things,

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that I just fit into. And it, you know, enjoyed. And. God, some sort of nourishment from.

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Okay. Yeah. So how did that play out? How did you become a part of the scene at Anderson Fair?

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My girlfriend, one day said, hey, there's this restaurant that, you know, I go might like it. So, I said, okay.

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And so I went to Anderson Fair, which was closed and closed for the month of August because the Refrigerator's retired. They had a message on the, front window.

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You know, the refrigerators were tired and we're tired, and so we're taking a vacation. And I say that because, there's something about that that that

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if you understand that, you understand Anderson better, you know, that that, in some way, it was kind of not a serious enterprise, but, I started going there because I really liked it.

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The vibe was just just right up my alley. And so I started going there, you know, eating food, drinking beer, stuff like that.

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And, I guess I got familiar to the people enough that one day I walked in, and Marvin Anderson, do you know, does that, that's a familiar name. Yeah.

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Marvin kind of growl at me. Hey, you want a job? And so I said, yeah, I had a job, but I, I thought, yeah, Anderson.

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Faber. That's where I wanted to be. So I did both for a while. What was the other job?

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Oh, I worked at natural, food restaurant called, the natural Child. Okay. Have you. Ever heard of. It? I have not heard that.

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Okay. It was. It was like, two blocks away. A woman named Camille Waters owned it. She was, pretty well known. Houston in in the,

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performing, in, the performing arts meeting, play. Drama. And, so, you know, that was

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that happened for a while, but it that one where I needed to be. Okay. Yeah. So then what was your role and interesting for your job there? I started, washing dishes in, Boston tables and,

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doing what was necessary. You know, the woman who ran the place was named Pat Bridget, the wife of Joe Pritchard, who was,

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painter, visual artist. And that was that was what, Anderson Fair was about at first, Marvin was had been, manager of Texas Art supply. Gray Fair was,

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visual artist, graphic artist. And so the place was a restaurant and kind of an art gallery, and a lot of its patrons were from the visual art community. So Don Schnell, Don Shaw, Dick Ray,

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my college, pardon me, people like that who were pretty prominent visual artists at the time. And indeed,

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I knew that at some point in all my years, I was talking to an old friend of mine from from high school, and, you know, telling him, I don't know about a Henderson family

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and you know that one of the people who came in was Don Snell. And he said, you know, don't you know, you know, it's like you have a direct line to God, you know, that kind of thing.

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Anyway, and so that that is how it started, and, and how it was, were. Yeah, several years in which not originally a music venue of any kind.

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About what time did that start to change? Well, I can tell you exactly. Let's shape had kind of ran, who really ran the place day to day.

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Got kicked off at Martin. And why not? You know, Ed quit, and so Marvin had British culture's place. I got, I got interested in that.

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Was really interested in keeping it alive. And, and I convinced them to keep watch open, so, you know, like, we can do this. And we did,

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and we brought, you know, other people to, help us out in the hospital. Probably we did that for probably a couple of years.

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And so we're talking, you know, maybe 1970, 71 or something like that. And it became obvious that, hey, we want to register on tours and be,

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Anderson Fair, which are really popular place in the early going. But that string had kind of played out, and, so we were kind of trying to figure out what to do.

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And this is something that had been on my mind for a while. And I just said, listen, this place is not a restaurant big enough. We don't know what we're doing. It's not a it's you know, it's not going to make it as a restaurant.

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If we wanted to make it, we should make a music venue. And we did. And, you know, we had had people come, come in and strum the guitar and sing at lunchtime and stuff like that.

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But he was not a music venue. But we did know some people, and I thought that if we provided them a space, you know, if you build it, they will come.

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And, I have to say I was right. You know that once we, Once we started doing that and, you know, talking to musicians

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and putting a sound system together in one wall, we got, kind of the best people in Houston all along with, you know, the old quarter, Liberty Hall, etc..

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That Houston had to offer. They were eager for a place to play. Back then, there weren't that many, and, and so we,

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somewhat unbeknownst to us, filled in. Feel the need. Okay. And what year was that? I'm gonna guess 72 ish.

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Okay. 71, 72 ish. All right. Something like that. Anyway, so,

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so the, early artists who played there, were Don Sanders, Bill and Lucy. Okay. And you have a thing on your,

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on your web page about Anderson Fair that describes Lucille and Bill, our singing partners. They were actually married. Yes. Yes, yes.

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Okay, just just make sure you do that. Anyway, bill and Lucille were there. Vince, bill, George. Initially, Reb Smith, you know about him?

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Okay. Richard Dobson. Coming up with from the from the early, early days,

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one of the interesting things that happened because we had become a music venue for the local, face for a better term of pace.

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Concert based on church was on, I think, national, certainly regional, you know, concert promoter like. Right.

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You know, world acts to Houston and they needed somebody here in town to make arrangements and we knew the guy who owned I can't remember the name, but,

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intro. He needed somebody to, cater that grudgingly. And so he said, hey, I want to do this because, you know,

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you're kind of still a restaurant and zone. So we said, sure. And that was kind of an adventure. Our first,

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concert at M was at night of a million, and it was, Stevie Wonder, The Pointer Sisters, and Rolling Stone. And, I mean, it's a really good concert.

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And you, you know, we got to be backstage because that's where, you know, I think where the where the food had to be. So that that was kind of an interesting side gig. And so I don't remember how we can.

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Open this up, but how long did it. How long? I've never heard about this. How long is that last? I don't know, couple of years, I think I, you know, I've tried to remember, you know, I mean, we did a Grateful Dead

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concert at Half Orange humble pie. Do you remember? I've heard of Humble Pie. It's. You're you're. It's okay. Oh, no.

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You're you're. I need to remember. And and, you know, it's weird. I can't remember the others, but it over a year, I don't know,

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and, you know, the very first one, I like to say we screwed up, but we didn't, you know, the the Rolling Stones and what they did. What what what the country did was before

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the concert, they sent you a telegram which said, this is what we need and what one of the things the, the telegram was they wanted. Mick Jagger demanded, the pedals of two dozen American Beauty roses

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because he was going to eat, you know, and his dancing around. I thought he was going to come back, say, Graham, Graham, these panels and, you know, be doing this. Okay.

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Only problem was telegram. It was 20 dozen. So we had to does it, you know. And he came back and said, what the fuck is this?

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He just went back out and and so we we screwed it up. But actually we didn't. We did what we were supposed to do. Exactly. Yeah.

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Okay. So so they were communicating what was in the writers to you. In the in. The contract.

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Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Somehow I don't remember it. But anyway. But yeah. So we did that for a little while.

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Oh, was that the oddest request? I don't. Okay, I don't. Really remember. Okay.

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Yeah, yeah, but one thing I do remember was hearing, you know, I mean, this was like the early light shakes, these early challenges. Okay, if you're a young person, then,

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you know, you assumed that all of these musicians were just druggies, you know, and you weren't for a room, but in that, you know, backstage area,

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you know, Mick Jagger. I didn't talk to him, but I overheard him, talking to another guy, and he was as cold sober as you could get. And he was talking about lifting weights, strength, weight ratios.

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He was talking about about getting and being in shape and guess what? He still. Yeah, but he's on tour and,

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you know, you don't do what he does without beginning treatment. And that really, got my attention that this guy serious. You know, he's not out there drinking whiskey and shooting up.

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You know? Okay. What? So could you describe a typical day at Anderson Fair,

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especially when it started to become more of a music venue? Well, for a while, we were still doing the restaurant gig during the day, so,

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you know, there was, there was buying food, you know, going to the farmers market and, there was a Mexican bakery on North Main, and, you know, just doing that,

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preparing the food, opening the doors, you know, and, you know, serving people, Clinton, blah, blah, blah, the usual lunchtime gig.

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And then getting ready for nighttime, whoever was playing. And, you know, honestly, Norah, I do not remember. We

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we did not have music every night. But it was not, for a long time. There was no cover.

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And, you know, and, in the music aspect of it, there wasn't that much to do. Stock the beer, and wine and, you know, just count the money

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from watching you go to the bank and, you know, just stand stand up. And and, you know, the music would usually start about nine and, you know, depending on how many people were there.

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And. Yeah, I mean, Fridays and Saturdays were big time. And, you know, Tuesdays weren't, but, you know, you might be up to to or something like that.

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And of course, there were, you didn't spend much time at Andrews Affair nonstop. I mean, that was just part of the deal. Anderson fair unlike,

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the old court, for example, was a soft drum place. We were pot and psychedelics. They were heroin, you know, and that just didn't happen around us. If it did, I sure as heck didn't know about it.

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But but, yeah. So, there was that aspect to it. And. Yeah. Yeah.

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You know, after things closed down and people went home, you know, clean up, put up, walk up, you know, hey, what kind of. Yeah. All right.

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Do you want to talk about any of the, people that were there in more detail or any kind of, like, specific stories that, stand out to you? That kind of thing?

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Sure. Well, let's say Marvin Anderson was, mysterious guy.

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He was really fun, and and people really liked him. Women liked him. And I think a lot because,

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he was he was kind of open for any cutting and, But but he, I mean, he would he, he had a serious side.

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Of course. But one of the things that I do want on the record is that, when they were,

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when he and Great Fair were building or, you know, imagining and building out, Anderson fair, they wanted it to look like a, you know, small Mexican place

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and that, you know, white walls and, red brick floor. Now, as it turned out, the city of Houston was tearing up Navigation Avenue at that point, navigation Avenue ran right along the ship channel, and it was red brick.

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It was covered with asphalt. The red brick was well, it was the original street was red brick, and they were tearing that up. And so, Marvin, requisition one night,

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a couple of takes a short supply vans and a couple of Texas Art supply employer employees, and they went out and stole lunch bricks. And so when you walk into Anderson Ferry, you're walking on Navigation Avenue. That's Houston history.

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And closer to opening, there, they needed, you know, was going to be a restaurant. So they needed kitchen utensils, pots and pans and ladles and blah, blah, blah. And as luck would have it, the sharp stone bank scandal that you are probably too

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young to know about, but, it was a very big deal. Georgetown banks gamble, Georgetown Bank closed, and it brought down the lieutenant governor of Texas. And so it was I don't remember the precise shenanigans,

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but it also forced Georgetown Country Club to plunge. And so Marvin, once again, requisition of van and went and stole, you know, a bunch of pots and pans and so on like that.

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And that too is something that, I consider, shares a lot about. Anderson figure that he was born in corruption.

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You know, I mean, really petty stuff, but but, you know, a disregard for the fine points of moral oversight. Yeah. Oh, but you also ask about

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people like, you know, let's see. Yeah. Pat Pritchett,

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Joe Bridget's wife, they were on the out. Was blue collar woman. Smart, not educated. And entertaining.

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Fine. I don't know. We probably worked together for six months or something.

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Pat Stout it came on shortly after Pat Pritchard left. He was a regular guy. Smart guy. And,

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and I don't know him very much. A denizen of Anderson Vega. There was a woman named, Sandy Anderson. Now, Sandy Mathis.

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Do you know her? Have you? We have communicated with each other via Facebook. Okay, okay. It's been a while, though. Okay. Is she interested at all in this project?

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Because I would encourage her to be I. When I tried to communicate with her in the past, I think she was in a, a caregiving situation with her father. And I don't know if that's still going on.

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And so that's she was reticent to come. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I will shortly give her a call, which I did. You know, I did the house, you know, it's great.

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It's a good idea of, of of Yeah. Because she, she was a very good person. You know, the restaurant at that point was Marvin, me and Pat stout.

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And shall we say, it needed a woman's touch. And she gave it. She was, Yeah. Fun. Charming.

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And and, very much part of the deal. And there were various people who worked hard, you know, here and there, just as needed. Those were the actual employees.

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Musicians. You. Well, I can go on. Oh, yeah. Please go on in there. Okay. Yeah.

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Well, you know, Donna Chandler's, was my best friend for, you know, well, over 40 years, until he died. I, first,

00:26:42.370 - 00:26:54.100

learned about Dawn, when I was, I think 16, you know, a date. And I went riding down Richmond Avenue, headed to the Terrace Pizza

00:26:54.100 - 00:27:04.000

place on Main Street. But wait a minute. What's that place over there? It says, well, you know which drag it out.

00:27:04.230 - 00:27:18.100

And so we did. And Dawn was playing, and I was absolutely taken with him. I thought that he was smart and funny and serious and wrote damn good music and had a really good stage presence.

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He was a professional woman. Joe. I went back, you know, periodically and, you know, in my high school years and

00:27:29.330 - 00:27:42.930

ended up seeing the people that I would later employ, you know, give me stage to Anderson, Fairfield, Lucille one. And saw Jerry, Jeff

00:27:42.930 - 00:27:55.870

there, but he never played there. And I saw, Susan Clark set her neck. Suzanne. Yeah. Yes. Susan. Susan. Oh, yes. Yes, yes.

00:27:55.870 - 00:28:02.400

Yes. Susan. Spa. Who became Susan? You got it? Yes. Got it. Yeah.

00:28:02.400 - 00:28:11.530

And, yeah, I remember Susan. Was so, when, when I saw her, you know, she did. Shannon.

00:28:11.530 - 00:28:21.300

And ask one question, you know, and this woman requested the presence of, you know, that one. I go red and yellow. Blue and green, or this world trade a little town.

00:28:21.300 - 00:28:33.700

Me and Susan was not impressed. And she made it known. She played the prison song. And she was so obnoxious about it that the person who requested it

00:28:33.700 - 00:28:45.870

got up and left during the summer. And that's Susan for you. Much later in life, Susan was living in this.

00:28:45.870 - 00:28:57.100

I don't know, you might want to edit this, but, Susan was living in Corpus Christi. She used to stay in a walk on the beach, and this guy came up to her and started it.

00:28:57.600 - 00:29:09.430

You know her and Susan's way of dealing with it. She was sick of that stuff. And her way of dealing with that was to stand still.

00:29:09.430 - 00:29:19.900

Kind of spring a little bit and pay down the short. Oh, wow. It's a kind of fun. Well, I don't know.

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I that yeah, that's a bold. Statement. Yeah. Yeah. It it changes and is just the version to make it, again I'm really digressing, but

00:29:32.400 - 00:29:48.170

my very first job in Houston when I got back from college duty, I drove a taxi, yellow cab. And one morning early, I picked up this woman and took her to work at the phone company.

00:29:48.870 - 00:29:55.230

And issues. Attractive. So I said, you know, how about if I come visit you? She's not okay.

00:29:55.230 - 00:30:04.200

And recognize Susan. And so I, you know, went to visit her and, you know, nothing ever came of that. She was

00:30:05.370 - 00:30:16.170

maybe eight, ten years later not seeing her. And she had a boyfriend. But that's how I got to know her. And, Travis.

00:30:16.170 - 00:30:23.800

Clark. Guys. John. And her boyfriend, Freddie McClain.

00:30:23.870 - 00:30:38.330

Do you know him? Her. And he was. Not. He was a really superb jazz guitarist. And he, you know, did kind of sit in the,

00:30:39.430 - 00:30:50.570

you know, back up gigs, but he was also with a, group called rocket Blue Diamond and Rock and blue diamonds were him,

00:30:50.900 - 00:31:04.000

a guy named Mayo Thompson, a guy named Rick Barthelemy, who was John Birthplace. Brother John Barclay was a writer, fiction writer of some, some repute.

00:31:04.700 - 00:31:18.000

And Rick went on to edit the Mississippi lyric. Very groovy or something like that, anyway. But, you know, they were kind of, kind of a jazz quartet.

00:31:18.000 - 00:31:27.330

There was another guy who's become. Anyway, so I met, you know, all those people that way.

00:31:27.330 - 00:31:41.270

It's a it's a small world. And one of the things, one of the, one of the two good, bad ideas that I had at Anderson Fair was,

00:31:41.530 - 00:31:54.500

devoting one night to drink House, you know, and Freddie and others played, you know, it was an improv deal, but more even then the,

00:31:54.570 - 00:32:07.270

you know, guitar singer songwriters, jazz musicians in Houston, man, they would do anything for a show place to play. And so we had some really damn fine

00:32:07.870 - 00:32:20.400

jazz musicians play, you know, come in and just shitty Freddie was one. And there's a trombonist named the Angel Kramer. There was a, guy who played the flugelhorn

00:32:20.400 - 00:32:34.100

named Tex something, and others, and I really loved him. The only downside is that, was that,

00:32:34.100 - 00:32:48.700

the crowd really liked the music, but I like my coffee, you know, and it was like, yeah, well, I could sit there for two hours, like a cup of coffee. And it's not exactly how you run a restaurant. So.

00:32:49.200 - 00:33:00.970

So it was a really good idea, but it was also a bad idea. It just didn't. Work. Did anybody participate from, like, the black jazz community? Yes. That's, the text somebody.

00:33:00.970 - 00:33:12.830

Angela Kramer and I were black musicians, and, you know, there were others. And, just. My memory is just not up to the task that.

00:33:12.830 - 00:33:20.500

That's okay. It's a lot of it's a lot of names from. You know, a long time ago. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:33:22.430 - 00:33:32.870

Is there anybody else that, like, do you want to start talking about some of the musicians? Yeah. Sure, sure. I mean, you know, again, Don, Don was my favorite.

00:33:34.500 - 00:33:46.070

You know, he I, I think that he just had a lot to he, and he did he, he, he had his,

00:33:46.070 - 00:34:01.370

his work has dealt in character and humor and, he, he always had something to say. And he.

00:34:02.770 - 00:34:19.500

You know, and then his friend, he I could absolutely track how he breakfast and he did a great deal. From social commentary to art. There's,

00:34:19.500 - 00:34:30.600

I don't know, there, there something about, there's, there's a line in visual art, and there's a line in poetry and,

00:34:31.800 - 00:34:43.770

you know, music that that when you cross it, you're doing it, and it's. I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it. And Don absolutely got there.

00:34:46.830 - 00:34:58.700

Anyway, and and you, you know, but then he got married, had a kid, and he was Mr.. Mom, he was, you know, that's what he did.

00:34:58.700 - 00:35:17.830

And and, you know, his music just went off that way, which it had to do. But I wish it had because, even with that, you know, 20 year interim, when he got back to it,

00:35:17.970 - 00:35:31.470

he really produced some fine work. And, God, I wish I love his son, but God, I wish he could have could have stayed on the trajectory

00:35:31.970 - 00:35:46.170

that he was on because it would have been you would have been wonderful. Anyway. So I love the, People like that,

00:35:46.170 - 00:36:03.370

you know, Vince Bell had a lot of that quality to him. He was angrier than Don. And it, by God, showed. But but you know, he converted a lot of that into humor

00:36:03.370 - 00:36:15.530

and so on, but but he was a little more energy than. I don't know that. Then. I don't know, it needed to be.

00:36:15.530 - 00:36:24.800

I think, George, generally you've you've taught him. Yes. Okay. Coincidentally, he lives half a mile from me.

00:36:25.230 - 00:36:35.270

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had no idea for years. It's like, oh, yeah, he's a white George, you know? Anyway, so that's kind of neat.

00:36:36.330 - 00:36:53.370

George's work, was good, but a little, Less, less intellectual value than I prefer.

00:36:54.300 - 00:37:16.670

But but he's, you know, he's a fine gentleman writer, fine professional. You know, Eric actually, I'm not sure that I ever, I, I don't know, I think I did, I think, yeah, yeah,

00:37:16.700 - 00:37:26.100

he did play there when I was there. I think you're right. He was absolutely superb. I think,

00:37:26.100 - 00:37:42.200

Rock Romano did the right thing about Eric, and that is, it his work is literature, and I think that agree. I think his his, you know, his stuff

00:37:42.570 - 00:38:05.600

you can listen to again and again and, and never completed, you know, Yeah. Come on.

00:38:05.600 - 00:38:18.230

It's senior moment time. Larry McMurtry, once wrote something about, about William Folder. He described his writing as Vinnie,

00:38:18.670 - 00:38:34.500

as in temporal evolution, you know, complex and so on like that. And I just think that's exactly what Eric becomes. And if you compare Eric's work with, towns, towns, his work

00:38:34.500 - 00:38:49.370

towns is like simple find simple concept and but get either, you know, rises or falls, you know, there's there's nothing there's nothing to keep it up. And when he's good, he's as good as you get.

00:38:49.370 - 00:39:03.170

But but, you know, the the comparison of the two, is the contrast is pretty stark. Eric is a complex one that he. Complex, right.

00:39:03.170 - 00:39:18.300

And I don't know, I, I really, really appreciate Susan for her support for him, which I think, gave gave the work a lot of good work that it might not have gone

00:39:18.900 - 00:39:32.800

and had not been for him anyway. And, you know, Lyle played there, but that was after me. Lucinda Williams after me.

00:39:34.230 - 00:39:44.100

Don't talk to me about, you know, about that. I'm like, right there. And, you know, it just goes on and on. Nick does anything about Reb Smith?

00:39:44.100 - 00:39:57.170

Well, Reb was, always, guy who, tried to trade on his pretty boy.

00:40:01.200 - 00:40:12.730

Sensitive. So, And I didn't like him, you know? I mean, he was a good guy, but, he didn't he didn't write that much of his own work.

00:40:14.130 - 00:40:29.370

And, you know, and I don't know, and he wasn't a mensch, you know, and Quinn Kino told me that Ram had committed suicide. I wasn't that surprised.

00:40:29.370 - 00:40:37.430

You know, he was one of those, but he's just, I don't know. Kramer.

00:40:37.430 - 00:40:53.970

Okay. Yeah. All right. See? By the time and see if I can try to get this out because I'm just. Come. This is off the top of my head.

00:40:53.970 - 00:41:08.600

Yeah, yeah, because I have kind of a question later that kind of points to this. In contrast to other scenes,

00:41:08.830 - 00:41:21.030

especially when people started to write their own music in Houston. Dawn Sanders seemed to be the one person who might have a political angle,

00:41:21.600 - 00:41:36.770

but many of the others did not in the same way. Right. And, You had obviously already participated in anti-war protests and things like that.

00:41:36.770 - 00:41:46.900

Yeah. Did you end up bringing any of that kind of political sensibility to Anderson fair in any way?

00:41:53.100 - 00:42:03.730

I think, Joe. Okay. I think that, I mean, in a way, it was just there. But, Anderson, there was an alternative thing,

00:42:04.200 - 00:42:20.100

whatever it was, whether it was restaurant, visual art place, music place, a club, whatever you call it. It was a fringe alternative deal. And, in, a lot of ways, maybe always.

00:42:20.430 - 00:42:35.000

That was enough for me that he that that, there was a term back then, the counterculture, you know, that it was part of the counterculture, and that was a spectrum of fall short of behaviors,

00:42:35.570 - 00:42:51.470

a lot of them really stupid. But, you know, and, and that included overtly political stuff. You know, all the way through artistic music,

00:42:51.630 - 00:43:05.500

a lot of music. And, and you know, back to the land and stuff like that, which was really stupid. But, you know, these people didn't know what they were doing.

00:43:05.770 - 00:43:17.530

But I, I found out, but yeah. And so I guess, we kind of disdained politics now.

00:43:19.800 - 00:43:30.300

Hey, you know, Patton, Marvin and I definitely talk politics because it was, you know, Watergate and the Vietnam War and. Yeah, yeah, yada.

00:43:30.300 - 00:43:40.800

It's kind of hard to avoid. And, anyway, so, you know, I did. Because it didn't if there were any, you know, I know that Liberty Hall did some, you know, political fundraisers.

00:43:41.200 - 00:43:51.100

Yeah. Yeah, that's a block parties. I feel like there were some people that some politicians maybe I find. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And thanks for reminding me.

00:43:51.100 - 00:44:05.170

Yeah. There was a woman named and lower who was a political organizer for, Harris County Democrats, which was the liberal

00:44:05.170 - 00:44:18.400

wing of the Democratic Party in hers county. And she was a, campaign, organizer for, House of Representatives.

00:44:18.400 - 00:44:31.730

Congressman. Yeah. Him and, Eckhardt every day. Anyway, he was a liberal Washington poet.

00:44:33.700 - 00:44:48.300

And so and and great. She was really good person, but she was, man, she was a cigaret smoke or coffee drinker, a much taller politics kind of person. And but it's funny, we have,

00:44:48.530 - 00:44:57.130

she had connections. And so when we wanted to have a block party. Well, how do you do that? Well, she told us she just.

00:44:57.130 - 00:45:03.770

You hire a couple of, you know, you hire a lieutenant in the police department and help bring a couple of guys,

00:45:03.900 - 00:45:19.570

and you just go out, steal some barricades from a construction site and barricade the street and do what you want, because the cops are not going to screw with you because you've got a lieutenant on the job. And she knew, you know, the people to do that.

00:45:19.570 - 00:45:30.730

Anyway, so there was a Texas congressman named Ron Waters. And so, yeah, we were his campaign headquarters. Whatever. That man.

00:45:30.730 - 00:45:45.600

Okay. So, yeah, that stuff was going on. And, you know, when she, you know, she needed there was some labor organizing that she was involved in.

00:45:45.600 - 00:45:57.800

And, you know, if she needed stuff carried or something like that, we would pitch in and do that. Anyway, so, you know, poll watching and things like that. So yeah, that that happened.

00:45:57.800 - 00:46:07.500

Okay. Absolutely. That was part of the deal. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Cool. How many of those block parties were you a part of?

00:46:07.900 - 00:46:20.700

Oh, I don't know. Probably something like that. It was spring and fall and, but, you know, like, so much,

00:46:23.400 - 00:46:37.430

it was a, it was an another good, bad idea that that, it turned out to be a lot of work, and for not a lot of payback, we saw a lot of beer and wine,

00:46:37.470 - 00:46:51.530

so on, but, but but it was it was a lot of work. And, you know, rolling, rolling kegs, beer and,

00:46:51.530 - 00:47:04.030

you know, here and there, again, I don't know what you want to hear about this, but, There was

00:47:04.030 - 00:47:17.800

yeah, Anderson is situated on this street, like so. And then there's a house facing this street here. And, you know, we've generally had somebody living in that house

00:47:18.600 - 00:47:32.900

and, the people living there had, large rented, Doberman Pinscher, and they play with Scarlett the dog, with a water hose.

00:47:32.900 - 00:47:41.400

And, you know, she we she would bite the water stream. She would love to do that. She was enormous dog. She was very sweet dog.

00:47:41.400 - 00:47:54.430

But during the block party, of course, we had, you know, too few porta cans. And so people just went by the place and guys were just peeing back there. And just imagine.

00:47:56.400 - 00:48:06.600

This poor guy was like, Rick, I'll be leaving him out, you know, large Doberman. Anyway,

00:48:06.600 - 00:48:19.100

it was it was a lot of work. And and, you know, the street smell like beer after that. It was just kind of. It was fun.

00:48:19.100 - 00:48:28.830

You know, we elected the mayor of Montrose. Right? Yeah. Sanders was the mayor of Montrose for a while. Gray fair was the first mayor of Montrose.

00:48:29.030 - 00:48:37.500

Speaking of politics. So gray fair. Dawn Sanders, I think Bill Cade was. Yeah.

00:48:37.500 - 00:48:46.900

I think you had to have feet big enough for the shoe. I think that was the only requisite. And I think invincible was. Was he.

00:48:46.900 - 00:48:57.070

He has a sign, his collection. So he has a little desk play and a picture of it. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, no one.

00:48:57.070 - 00:49:05.630

Wanted to do what? Yeah, those are those are the ones I remember. Okay. One thing about Anderson Farrell.

00:49:05.630 - 00:49:18.430

Don't know if you know this, but, when Martin and Gray were, of course, stoned, when I trying to figure out things about, you know, this restaurant that they were putting together,

00:49:19.600 - 00:49:32.370

obviously. What to name it. Well, the subject, I don't know, Martin having a mansion that he was related to hunt Christian Anderson,

00:49:33.130 - 00:49:45.600

who wrote Andersen's fairy tales. So why don't I just make it Anderson fair retail. And that's where it came from.

00:49:45.600 - 00:49:54.830

Yeah. To be stumbled. That's just the, Anyway, I didn't know if you knew that. Yeah, I did okay.

00:49:54.830 - 00:50:04.830

But it is a it is interesting. I was never and until I think I learned that from the doc, the documentary. But I would not have known.

00:50:04.830 - 00:50:15.130

Oh yeah. Unless it's actually like, yeah, someone explains it because it doesn't immediately pop. Into, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't, but it makes some degree of sanity

00:50:15.230 - 00:50:22.630

if you know. Yeah. Yeah. The documentary. Yeah. I like Bruce Bryant a lot,

00:50:22.630 - 00:50:38.570

and I'm glad that he made a documentary about Anderson Fair. But he did sugarcoat the deal. I mean, he he tried to make it, you know, this kind of pristine place that was like shitty light bookstores, you know, and.

00:50:38.700 - 00:50:51.800

And that whichever way what he was, you know, I, I don't strongly object, but, it it didn't describe the Anderson figure that I know.

00:50:52.300 - 00:51:02.830

Yeah, I will say that, I think Bruce would admit exactly to say I think I think he said that he could have made things harder. Yeah, than he did. Yeah.

00:51:02.830 - 00:51:19.570

And yeah, I mean, he, he, he knows the plays. And he did it for a reason. He was trying to sell a good, you know, and that's I don't object to that. But at the same time, at the opening at the MFA,

00:51:20.700 - 00:51:33.370

Pat stout which there and we didn't see each other for a long time. And, you know, and you first words out of his mouth, word marketing would be a part in his story.

00:51:33.370 - 00:51:40.770

And I said, you got it. You know, and that was not even about the thing. It was about the film.

00:51:40.770 - 00:51:52.130

It's about the event, you know? Wait a minute, the MFA, you know, I mean, how. Tony, exactly are we pretending, Anderson? Fair to be, because he wasn't,

00:51:53.600 - 00:52:04.830

but, but know that was that. That's the deal island I'm in. I'm sure Bruce is fully aware he was to try to do something right. Yeah.

00:52:04.830 - 00:52:15.700

Which is okay. And see. When you were doing those block parties, how many performers were.

00:52:15.700 - 00:52:27.300

There? Were like ten, 15? Like you. How many hours? It's like 2 or 3. Yeah. You know, it's kind of a good question.

00:52:29.600 - 00:52:43.000

I, I'm not sure I can answer it. I mean, there were, you know, it was an all day affair, obviously. You know, it started a clock. But, you know, maybe noonish maybe one ish, something like that.

00:52:43.000 - 00:52:53.200

Until. Or maybe so, I don't know. Okay. But we had some good action, and we had a lot of people

00:52:53.200 - 00:53:12.900

who wanted to do it, and we had to say no to a lot of people who were. Very good to say no, to stay. Anyway, so what were some of the, kind of non Houston acts that played at that?

00:53:13.570 - 00:53:24.730

The one I really remember was Rent Creek from Oscar and you know, they, I've heard of them. Yes. Yeah. Well they were if you, if you think about the band

00:53:25.770 - 00:53:46.170

that were kind of that it was a multi guy, band good musicians. And, and couple of them were good writers. And, they, they were a good act,

00:53:46.330 - 00:53:58.700

you know, Anyone that they that it was good work. And, you know.

00:53:58.700 - 00:54:09.830

Out of town and groups. That is. That's the best I can do for you know, I mean, one one thing that's more about me, but,

00:54:09.900 - 00:54:21.530

you know, the, the, the deal that I was, you know, at age 16, I happened into Cheyenne Mountain and was really taken with that deal.

00:54:21.530 - 00:54:36.930

And that years later, you know, I happened to pick up Susan Clark and came out and plugged into that. And, and that, you know, sometime later, you know, I said,

00:54:36.930 - 00:54:53.770

you know, this needs to be a music in you and that that all of those things kind of kind of flowed together in a weird way, and utterly by Tom Locke. But but it was something that I,

00:54:55.100 - 00:55:07.700

that was, I don't know, it was all very natural for me. Anyway, yeah.

00:55:10.730 - 00:55:19.870

I don't know, there's there's a lot and, I don't know, maybe that challenge. Okay. Yeah.

00:55:19.870 - 00:55:32.370

I mean, no, it's interesting that, the. Yeah, that you were. Did you go to Sand Mountain a lot during a short, like, some period of time? I wouldn't say a lot, but in high school,

00:55:32.370 - 00:55:45.170

yes, I did, and weirdly, after that, never. I don't think I have been, you know, I mean, it was functioning, but the places I went to were, Liberty Hall and, and, the awkward.

00:55:45.430 - 00:56:03.000

Okay. And, you know, when I did Washington Anderson fair, which was a heck of a lot at the time, but, you know, Liberty Hall was, either an absolutely excellent good place.

00:56:03.000 - 00:56:20.300

My country, I thought, was doing really good work there. A lot of really, really good acts, you know, and his his thing, you know, of his series on, old Texas and southern blues,

00:56:21.330 - 00:56:29.270

musicians. I mean, old guys, you know, man's blues company framing down when people like that. I just thought that was wonderful.

00:56:29.270 - 00:56:41.170

You know? And Lightnin Hopkins was there very often in towns of coercion in others. But I just thought I thought that was good stuff. And I didn't think.

00:56:41.170 - 00:56:53.530

Anyway, for the some of them, the performers that you enjoyed seeing there the most. Yeah, absolutely. The I thought that series that he did of all black blues

00:56:53.570 - 00:57:05.430

guys, you know, I thought that was just good, you know, because, it was a time that those, they were in the process of being forgotten what they, And anyway.

00:57:05.430 - 00:57:20.600

So. Yeah, Yeah. And, hidden by 1974, I spent about four and a half,

00:57:20.600 - 00:57:35.530

maybe five years. Being, you know, drunk and stoned and staying out, staying up until 4:00 in the morning and,

00:57:38.130 - 00:57:50.570

I didn't know. You know, I wanted to, Start using my mind instead of using my. And,

00:57:50.900 - 00:58:04.170

and so I. Yeah, I got married in, to chemo, you know, because, and, went back to college and got a degree and went to law school and thought I was a serious person,

00:58:05.300 - 00:58:17.400

erroneously, that I may not practice law for ten years and. And read my mind. Now, wife and I moved to

00:58:17.400 - 00:58:30.270

Antigua, Guatemala, and started the, you know, as a way to quit practicing law wouldn't allow me to, you know, write poetry and or and do run into her

00:58:30.470 - 00:58:44.400

art. Doc, but but, you know, the point being that I, you know, mid 70s, I just wish this is, you know. Okay.

00:58:44.400 - 00:58:58.530

Did you kind of disengage yourself from the scene or were you did you still kind of interact with people? Yeah, I still went back, because I liked it and, and the, the whole deal about,

00:58:58.530 - 00:59:13.200

you know, being, an owner and operator of, Anderson Fair. Was that the people who came there came for a party, and they went home,

00:59:13.200 - 00:59:24.630

and he came back ten days later. I was there and every night. And it was a party every night. And that's not that's not easy work.

00:59:24.800 - 00:59:40.930

I mean, it's fun, you know, but it also wears on you. So when you when I'm disengaged in school, which I like, then I can go there and listen to some music and leave and that was better.

00:59:40.930 - 00:59:55.870

Okay. So what are you doing now? I am, retired. What I do is I write a blog. I have a Substack page,

00:59:55.900 - 01:00:08.970

and I write about what I want to, and I, I enjoy that mostly because, if I take on a topic,

01:00:08.970 - 01:00:24.530

I focus on it, and I learn a lot about that topic, and, and, and I, I find that a good thing that that it's not just I have some kind of visceral notions about this out of the out, actually plunge down into it.

01:00:24.700 - 01:00:36.170

Okay. That's good. And, you know, my wife and I live outside of Prague. Me and authors and,

01:00:37.530 - 01:00:49.200

you know, we have about five acres and about two acres inside of the. And so we, garden and work on the property, fair amount. And,

01:00:50.930 - 01:01:05.030

generally try to, take it easy. We live, right next door to a, place called eye of the dog Art center.

01:01:05.030 - 01:01:17.930

And it's a visual art. Place focuses on ceramics, clay. And the reason I bring that up is that, what I have discovered

01:01:17.930 - 01:01:29.100

is that, I'm doing there a lot of what I did at Anderson fair, the people who own and run. I have the dog Art.

01:01:29.100 - 01:01:40.700

Well, let me step back. The reason that we live there next to the Dorchester is because I had the dog auction. I reached the best place.

01:01:40.700 - 01:01:54.830

There's a community of visual artists who were good friend. And creative people, fun people. People who cook well, eat well,

01:01:55.430 - 01:02:14.570

enjoy each other. This is a place that when. And if when you hug somebody, you tell them you love them and you made it. And that is not

01:02:14.570 - 01:02:26.800

ever mistaken. It is understood for what it is. Poetry is a genuine expression of caring. You,

01:02:26.800 - 01:02:38.030

And they do the same to you and, and and, you know, it's not it. You know, I'm. No, it's not a hippie thing.

01:02:38.030 - 01:02:58.430

It's, it's it's not false in any way. And and, you know, all of that combined make it a really wonderful place. And, The people who own it can run it or getting old

01:02:58.930 - 01:03:10.800

and, you know, wondering how to, you know, and do this. And I'm very much like what I did with Martin. And you say, hey, we can do this.

01:03:10.800 - 01:03:27.370

I'm doing that. And you know, gotten into the form of 5 or 23 and, yeah, you know, get I'm donating funds and stuff like that because, like, Anderson favorite, it's a place that needs to be.

01:03:27.600 - 01:03:39.170

And I just find it interesting that, kind of lightened one cigaret off the other. You know. I guess it's what I do.

01:03:39.170 - 01:03:52.800

No, that's nice, but it's it's kind of full circle. Yeah, in a way, it is. It absolutely is, in a way which is life. And I really, really glad the team has done with it.

01:03:52.800 - 01:04:09.400

What he's done, he's done, you know, probably the the best, the best Anderson Fair could ever hope for. You know, that he's gone. You know, he's seedbed for singer songwriters and he's got.

01:04:09.430 - 01:04:18.530

Yeah. For one of those people, on today. You know, I just think that's great. Yeah. Anyway, don't

01:04:18.530 - 01:04:27.570

you, you've talked to people about the gym. Of course. General Brown actually came in was the first person to really mention the general.

01:04:27.570 - 01:04:38.330

Oh okay. Well let me, let me tell us a little bit about the general. General building. And he, you know, he was a brigadier general in the Marine Corps,

01:04:39.600 - 01:04:50.700

and he was about five feet to and and, tell you something, nothing does. But the general was. Yeah, he was well into his 70s.

01:04:50.700 - 01:05:02.430

And in most of his life, he had been just a business man in Houston. He owned some property. He built the Bel Air Theater and stuff like that. And the general,

01:05:02.430 - 01:05:13.270

it was his property. And so he was always doing maintenance on property and stuff like that. And we'd be sitting around after lunch, you know, stoned course.

01:05:13.330 - 01:05:27.630

And the general would show up and he'd military in to some story. And he was a great storyteller. And, and to the extent that I wanted to contrive a way to just get him, just put him on stage in front of a microphone,

01:05:27.930 - 01:05:43.630

you know, because it was it was good stuff. He knew how to tell a story. But he should say we never fished. And Kimo, I think, has told you about the

01:05:43.630 - 01:06:01.430

about the, the general, being out in his yard in August. Day one time, and it was really hard. And, He was pulling a weed, and all of a sudden

01:06:01.430 - 01:06:17.470

he gave way and he went over backwards and pinned one of his flag. Broken hill, and pinned one of his legs under him, and he could not move. And, I mean, you know, all of a sudden middle of the day and this was a serious deal.

01:06:17.800 - 01:06:33.870

And so if you're the general in that situation, you take a pen out of your pocket and your pen and paper, and you write instructions. To the person who finds you about what to do with your body and. As the generals in or later over it.

01:06:33.900 - 01:06:41.200

Don't dodge the bullet, son. You fight this son of a bitch. And have. Some general.