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Today is Saturday, March 29th, 2025. My name is Grace Park, and I am interviewing Dr. Richard Ou on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice University. So first we're going to start with a few questions regarding your early life.

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So could you tell me when and where you were born? I was born in Minneapolis, Minnesota. My parents immigrated from Taiwan, and were both doing graduate work at the University of Minnesota,

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and that's where I was born. Great. How would you describe your childhood and adolescence years? Were there any special holidays, traditions, memories, or any experiences you recall growing up?

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So I don't really remember anything in Minnesota because very soon after I was born, my parents moved to Iowa. I think to escape the snow, but they probably didn't go far enough. My brother, my younger brother was born in Iowa.

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And then by the time I was in first grade, we had moved to Texas. But, so-so most of my memorable years were—I mean, the only thing I remember about Iowa was actually playing in the snow, making, you know, you know, igloos and-and snow fights and stuff

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like that. But, you know, most of my memories come from Texas. And, I mean, I grew up in Dallas, so we were very close with a lot of different Chinese and Taiwanese people in that community up in the Dallas area.

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But, you know, I think I had a pretty normal childhood, you know, went to church there, hung out with other family friends and-and things like that when we were young. When we were—before we started doing all of our

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normal stuff that you would do in school and sports. Great. What were your parents occupations and what are some of the values and lessons that your parents instilled in you growing up? So my father is an engineer—was—he's retired now.

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My mother did more clerical, secretarial kind of work. I think the biggest thing that they instilled in me was the sense of hard work. You know, we never really had much in terms of

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money. We were never, you know, rich, you know. I never thought we were poor, just because we didn't think about it, you know, we definitely took the value of money very seriously. And I remember when I was very young—my, you know,

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we couldn't afford a lot of things and it-it wasn't a good or bad thing. It just, you know, I went to a public school there and, it just wasn't an issue. We weren't around very wealthy people.

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So, you know, there was never a comparison issue. But they never explicitly came out and said, you need to do this, you need to do that. It was more learning by watching them.

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I mean, they were working all the time. They would fix things themselves. They-they would, you know, if there was a problem, they'd just figure it out and, you know,

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I mean, my dad would even make- do woodwork stuff, and, I mean, I didn't know if he was good at it. He just made stuff, and I see myself doing that now. I just kind of make stuff, and it's like, well, that makes sense. I think I can make something like this. And,

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you know, and I think he's probably given that down to me. But I think the biggest thing is just the idea that you can do it and you just need to work hard enough. And if you work hard enough, you can-you can achieve it.

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And if you didn't achieve it, you probably just didn't work hard enough or somebody is working harder than you, you know. And that's kind of down to the root of who I am and how I do things. You know, I think that they've given me a sense of

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just being able to accomplish it through hard work. And I think that's probably the most valuable thing that they've, you know, given to me. And but above that, I think the other thing is just the whole sense of family. You know, I wouldn't say that we're, like, a very emotional family

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and things like this, you know, we're not, you know, there's not a lot of PDA. There's not a lot of, you know, a lot of that, but-but the sense of family coming first and being the most important.

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And you know, what you sacrifice for, has—sticks with me. Yeah, that's very cool to see how you say you learn by watching and how that really centrally shapes your—even your hobbies

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to this day. My next question for you is what was your favorite subject in school? And what were some of your aspirations, or if you had any, dream careers as a child? So I was—I've always been interested by science,

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and I didn't realize this, and I think I started to realize this when I was—I think in sixth grade. I distinctly remember one of our teachers saying something about the human body and how it basically is a machine,

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and it does this and-and, I mean, this is a little bit of a gross story, but I remember it was my sixth grade teacher, and I think he may have been trying to gross us out. He said, well, you know, diarrhea just is when you aren't absorbing

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your water and then the water just comes out. And that's why it looks like that. And something in me said, oh, that makes sense. And then I realized, you can look at the human body

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like a machine. And then it was just very interesting. And then learning about biology, how every animal's machines are a little bit different and are a little bit unique and solve these different problems better than we could come up with ourselves.

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I mean, you know, when you look at it now, we're still trying to figure out how different animals and systems do these things. But just that idea has always been very, very interesting to me and very fascinating. And it almost makes things just more mechanistic.

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So if we knew enough or know enough, we could start to understand more about what's happening. And then of course, the next step, once you understand what's happening, then you can understand how to fix things or repair things or,

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you know, make things quote unquote, right. So that's probably been the thing that I've liked the most in terms of subjects. I see. My next question for you is in which grade were

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the first history classes taught and which teacher-told stories or those from history textbooks stuck out to you the most? When was I first taught history? Wow. I'm not sure I could answer that.

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I'm sure somewhere in grade school, they taught us history in social studies and things like that. I think one of the things that I remember fondly was Texas history, just because I just thought that was neat.

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I never knew anything about Texas history, you know, growing up, so I thought that was—I thought that was interesting stuff. In terms of the history that I remember, or actually, let's—let me rephrase that. The history that was most memorable was a

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teacher I had in junior high. He was older. We all—he kind of looked like Yoda, you know, a small, short, wrinkled guy, very eccentric. But he would tell stories and he

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would—he wouldn't actually give you as much facts. I think maybe he made us look it up, but it was just so engaging. In fact, I don't even remember most of his stories, but he would, you know, when he would talk about, like, World War II

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or something like this, he would tell us these stories of what these people did and just bring you into it. And we would just sit there transfixed. I mean, half the time, I mean, I look back, I-I'm sure I didn't even

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understand exactly fully what was happening, but he was a storyteller. And I just remember just sitting there, loving going to his classes. I mean, he could just ramble for literally an hour—the whole class. And I don't—I'm-I'm sure there were times I didn't even know what he was talking about,

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but it was just compelling, you know, and it made it very, very interesting. But yeah, but he-we did world history. But it wasn't even the subject of it. It was just his delivery and how he just brought you in.

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And I think that's probably the most memorable history that, you know, I've taken. I'm not a big history buff. But yeah, that one I definitely remember. Wow. Yeah. I would love to have a history teacher like that.

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But thank you for answering those questions. And next I'm going to ask a few questions related to, like, the immigration history of your family. So I know you mentioned a little bit about how your parents moved to different states,

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but when did your family first moved to the States and how and why did it happen? So my parents grew up in Taiwan. Finished their college studies in

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Taiwan and then came to the United States to do graduate work. My father came first, and then my mother came a year or two after that. And they tell me the story–they didn't really know

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each other. They went to the same college in Taiwan. And then I think she says she went to Minnesota, mostly because he went there. And this way she would know somebody in the United States.

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I don't know how well they knew each other before I—you know, they don't really tell me much. But-and I haven't really asked, but, that was-that was it. And that's

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pretty much the story of it. I mean, I remember when I was young, we went back several times. I don't remember it outside of pictures. But we would go back and forth a couple times.

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And then when my brother was born, we would go back, you know, and we don't have—my brother and I don't have any direct cousins here in the United States, any relatives. So that was really the only time that I've gotten to see cousins or uncles and aunts.

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And it was, you know, it's funny because my, my Chinese, my Mandarin is terrible. It's very bad. And I remember when I was there, when I was young, seeing my cousins, their English wasn't great,

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but I think their English was actually very good. They were just embarrassed to speak English because they were afraid they had an accent. But it was remarkable to me that we just got along like we had known each other for a long time.

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And it was just—it was special, and-and I missed that. And, you know, you know, when I see people who have cousins here, you know, I'm just—it makes me a little jealous. But I always remember that, I mean, it was awkward at first,

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just getting to know each other. But then after spending even a couple days with them, it was—it was just really fun, and just nice to see relatives, especially not having any relatives growing up, you know?

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Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, when we have relatives in other country, it's always very heartwarming to be able to connect with them so well. My next question is, I see that you have lived in various U.S. cities outside of Texas, like Minneapolis,

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San Francisco, Los Angeles. How would you describe the Asian American communities in each of those cities compared to the one in Houston? And just what is your general impression of life in Houston?

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Okay, that's a big—that's a lot of questions. Let me make sure I address them all. Yes, I feel like I have lived in a lot of different cities. You know, and I would probably just list—I mean,

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I wouldn't count Minnesota or Iowa just because I'm too young and, you know, to really make an impression or memory. I think Dallas, I didn't feel at the time—and maybe it's because I had nothing to compare it to that there were necessarily a ton of Asians,

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at the time when I was growing up. And, you know, I guess we went to Chinese markets and stuff like this and, you know, but I didn't think anything about it. I don't think I hung out that much with a lot of other Asians,

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especially in the high school and junior high years. At the time, I was doing a lot of swimming in school. So between sports and school, there wasn't a whole lot of time to be hanging out anyway. But, so, the most of the people I was hanging out

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with were mostly people on my teams, and they were very few Asians on the swim team. Very, very few at the time. In college, in Boston, you know, again, school was difficult, took a lot of time.

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And I was swimming at the time in college as well. So between those two, again, there's not a lot hanging out except for the guys you're spending all your time with, which are guys on the swim team. And there was only

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maybe three guys that were Asian on the team at the time. So, I mean, but I didn't think one thing or another, whether you're Asian or not, Asian or whatever. I know there were large vocal Asian groups on campus.

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I was not really involved in most of them, just because I just didn't have a lot of time, not necessarily that I was interested or not. After I finished school, I worked in New York City as a consultant—healthcare consultant.

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And that's probably where I actually started hanging out more with Asian people. Koreans, Chinese, some Japanese. And it was-it was actually very unique because I probably hadn't spent a lot of time hanging out with other Asians that were my age

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until that time. And it—you know, I mean, it felt comfortable in an odd way, to see other people that were like me, that kind of had the same first generation background, but

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were Americanized. You know, I think, you know, when you hang out with some Asians that are more, like, kind of fresh off the boat, it's like you're not Asian enough. And then you hang out with some non-asians, and then you're not American

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enough. So you're kind of in that middle zone. And it was probably the first time I started hanging out with people where I felt like I'm not in that weird spot anymore. And it was very comfortable, and it was very fun.

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And, you know, it's just something you didn't think about anymore. And, I mean, just on a practical, kind of interesting level, some of the jokes that you can make about, you know, family backgrounds and stuff,

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people get that. You're, like, what are you talking about? That doesn't make any sense. Or, you know, you can joke about foods. Oh, yeah. This is-this is worse than, you know, whatever. You know. And then, like, "oh, yeah,

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I get that." "Yeah, yeah. I used to have to eat that too when I was growing up," you know. So it was just oddly comfortable. In—when I sort of came back—I came to Houston for medical school, you know, it—there-there were at that time,

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there weren't as many Asians there, or I didn't necessarily hang out with as many, just because medical school is a difficult time. There's not a lot of free time. So there wasn't a ton of hanging out, but, you know,

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I was just hanging out with classmates where, I mean, there were some Asians, but I didn't feel like it was necessarily a more heavily Asian group. I did some training in San Francisco and in LA, which have very, very large Asian groups.

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And that was during training. And I did find that I would hang out more with more Asians there. And they were—and it was just more normal because of the prevalence of Asians.

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I mean, sometimes if you were even to walk on the UCLA campus, I mean-I mean, there are more Asians than non-Asians sometimes. And in fact, some of my non-Asian friends who would come to visit me probably felt a little weird, like,

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what's happening? Why are there so many Asians here? So in that sense, you just kind of feel comfortable walking around just because people look like you. So that's kind of been my experience. And, you know, now I'm back in Houston.

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I mean, I have Asian friends, non-Asian friends. There are a lot of, you know, Asian people in Houston. So that's, you know, I think it's-it's certainly not like San Francisco or Los Angeles levels, but I think, way more than Dallas.

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But I think that's probably been my experience with regards to Asians and all these different cities and different stages in my life. Yeah, it's very interesting how different cities have very drastically different, you know, numbers of Asians and each individual experiences with them.

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So thank you for sharing. And my next question is, so out of those different cities that you have lived in across the States, which place would you call home? I would definitely call Houston home. I've been here—well,

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outside of growing up... well, actually, they're probably pretty close. Dallas and Houston. But I would call Houston home. You know, this is where my children, most of my children were born,

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but definitely all raised. This is where all of the predominant friends we have, where my work community is. So I would definitely feel I would call Houston home.

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Great. Next, I'm going to ask you a few questions regarding your college years and just your education. So could you describe your undergraduate experience at Harvard University? Sure. So, like I said, I came from a big public school.

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And I was a swimmer. And so a lot of my identity in college comes through swimming. You know, coming out of high school, I had the idea or thought that I wanted to become a doctor. So I had to make sure I was pursuing those

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avenues as well. I majored in, or we call it concentrated in, economics. Because I figured this was probably the last time I could study something other than math and science, on my road to being a doctor.

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And—because I realized you didn't have to study a math or science, you didn't have to major in a math or science to become a doctor. So I was like, okay, well, study something different. And then, you know, take physics and chemistry and biochemistry as my

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electives. Not great electives, but I did. I was able to take other electives, but, academically, I think that worked out well. Oddly enough, I did better in my electives like biochemistry and

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organic chemistry than I did in my major. But I think that's just because that's where my, you know, strengths lied, but I just tried to learn something different. I would say academically, my time

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at Harvard was, I mean, it was—it was incredible. It's an incredible place with incredible people, and it opened my eyes to just a lot of different things and different ways to see things. And,

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you know, the way they have their curriculum, you have to take a lot of certain classes in certain different categories. And so some of them are liberal arts. And I realized that I love architecture.

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I did not know this, and then I took a couple classes on, you know, I took a class on Michelangelo, actually, which was just phenomenal. And I loved it. And if I had seen that earlier,

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who knows? I might have been a fine arts major, but, except I have no artistic talent, besides that. But it was just fascinating to-to see all the stuff just in terms of the breadth of stuff that he did in terms of painting,

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sculpture, architecture, I mean, design. I mean, it was just amazing stuff. And then that just kind of led me to looking into these other things. So in terms of that, it just—I think it was just an amazing experience and

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probably to the point where I didn't realize how amazing it was until I've since left. I've continued to be active with Harvard and other boards and for some other things. Partially because I know it's such a transformative experience,

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but not just because of the things that you learn, but the people that you meet, you meet just phenomenal people there, who will go on to do great things. You don't know who they are.

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But they're just very interesting people, you know, and people always talk about the places. "Oh, it's very cutthroat and it's very competitive," you know? And-and I never saw it as that.

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I think that it's a place where you get people who are very talented at a lot of different things. And they're used to doing very well, and they will continue to do well. But I never felt like people did well at the cost of

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somebody else. I don't think they looked at it like a zero sum game. They look at it more of, I'm going to do well, I'm going to do what it takes to do well. And I find this stuff interesting, and I'm going to do what I like,

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because now I can study the stuff I like. If I don't like Russian history, well, I'm not taking Russian history. You know, I like physics. Great. So then they go into, like, crazy kind of particle theory and

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physics, right? And they love it, and they will elevate everybody else's game because you-you know, you get two people who love Russian history. "Hey, have you ever thought of this? Did you look at this author? I've never looked at

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that. Tell me about that." And they'll tell you about it. And it's like, oh my gosh. And then, you know, it elevates everybody's game and, you know, and it's not a cutthroat kind of discussion. You know, it's kind of a "hey, I love this stuff.

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I know you love this stuff. Let's-let's talk about this," you know, and there's a lot of that stuff that goes on till, like, 1 or 2 in the morning. It's like "we, I think we have to go to sleep because we have class tomorrow" because,

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you know, okay. All right. You know, so there was a lot of that. But probably the most impressionable thing for me and the most formative thing was my relationship with the swim team.

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I swam all four years there. I was captain my seni—I was one of the captains my senior year. I spent a lot of time swimming. We were a division one, so we were

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competing against high level teams, traveling, having workouts before classes in the afternoons, you know, traveling for meets, invitationals, things like that. So these are the guys I spent most of my

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formative time with. You know, if we're not in the pool, you know, and we're not studying, then, okay, I'm probably hanging out with these guys, going to parties with these guys. You know, these guys are telling me "avoid this,

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okay, you want to go into medicine? I'm already three steps ahead of you. I'll tell you what you got to do. Avoid these classes," you know? So it was almost like a brotherhood/ I guess closest to a fraternity, as you could get, you know.

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But those were probably my most formative memories that I have, you know, of winning Eastern Championships with these guys. You know, setting a team record. You know, I mean, these are-these are the things that I remember, the things that I

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carry with me even more than the classes, you know, that I took. Yeah. I can only imagine, you know, spending all the time practicing with them, competing with them.

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Like, how meaningful of relationships you got out of that swimming experience You know, I'll-I'll add that I think that—and this is true for almost all sports and athletic teams—or not just sports and athletic teams,

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but other teams. When you are at that level and you spend that much time because, I mean, we're literally spending, gosh, at that time, I can't even tell you how many hours. It's, like, almost like a full time job. And especially now I think it's even more

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competitive. But when you suffer and with a group of people and you train—and this goes for, like, academic teams or whatever kind of teams you're talking about, you have a bond, right?

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When you go through trial and tribulation, you know, and you kind of suffer with other people, it brings you closer. I mean, to people that you would not necessarily be friends with, but having gone through something very, very hard brings people together in a way

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that just being friendly doesn't, you know, and then that's—I think that's part of the reason because I think in-in normal life, I say normal, but in a normal daily routine, I'm sure I wouldn't have crossed paths with several of these people,

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or necessarily even become friends with them. And a lot of these guys, I mean, I still keep in touch with them. And this is 30 years later, you know, and if I have a problem or something like this, I—even if I haven't talked to him in a couple of years,

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I can pick up the phone or-or send a text and I'm on the phone with him, you know, and "hey, what can I do to help you? I know these guys in New York who-who can do this or solve this for you" and, you know, so it's-it's nice and it's probably actually something I didn't think about and didn't

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appreciate as much until now that you're older and away from it. Yeah, that sounds amazing. And I'm specifically curious—do you think that these experiences and realizations-realizations you had while being a part of the swim

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team shapes, you know, your identity today and even things like how you practice in your clinic and how you work with your clinic team? 100%. It's—you know, part of

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being and I, I didn't necessarily look, I didn't realize this as I was going through this. But yes, you know, especially when you're—as a physician running your own office, I mean, I'm even the president of our group now, you learn how to work as a team.

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You learn how to accomplish things as a team. And I think it changes your perspective of—top level athletes like to get the job done, and they do it, and they don't complain. Right.

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And so that's a unique trait that I think—I don't want to say it's unique to student athletes, but I think it's a very common trait. And this is part of the reason I actually like people who were high level athletes, either in high school or

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in college, because I know that they will grind, they not complain, and they will get the job done. One way or another, it may not be the most efficient way, but they will get it done.

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And you know they can work on a team, you know. You know you can—they can take criticism. You know, they can they can hear it and, you know, internalize it and then use it to drive them.

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And I've taken those lessons myself to just, you know, when you think you can't get it done, you're going to get it done. Just whatever you got to do. Okay. You sleep less. Okay?

00:29:33.250 - 00:29:46.010

You come up with a routine. Let me just sleep for 15 minutes and I'll get up and do this, okay? Just do this one step at a time, you know? And my kids, they get mad at me because I always tell them be like an ant, you know, just move one grain of sand at a time,

00:29:46.250 - 00:29:54.730

and next thing you know, you will have moved a mountain, you know, but you got to start, you know? Look, I'm just like anybody else. I can procrastinate like the best of them.

00:29:54.730 - 00:30:10.900

But when I have to get it done, you just be like an ant. Just one grain of sand at a time, and you will surprise yourself, you know? So yes, I do apply that to almost everything that I do now.

00:30:15.180 - 00:30:32.780

Yeah that's very beautiful to see how all those realizations still carry on with you to this day. And now, I wanted to ask, so after your undergraduate years, could you tell me about your experiences at the Baylor College of Medicine

00:30:32.780 - 00:30:45.980

and specifically, being the class president and taking the leadership role there as well? Sure. So. You know, prior to—once I finished medical—once I finished college, I actually got accepted to medical school.

00:30:46.180 - 00:31:03.670

And I actually took a year off to work in New York City as a consultant. And mostly this was familial because my father at the time, who worked in the defense industry, lost his job for some time, and my brother was actually going to school

00:31:03.670 - 00:31:12.960

or about to start school. So we were going to have a kind of a financial crunch there. So I decided to work for a year. So during that spring, I recruited.

00:31:12.960 - 00:31:24.550

I did recruiting as well as applying to medical school. And I, you know, was fortunate enough to find a job in New York City. So that helped because my brother is four years behind me. So he started just as I was leaving.

00:31:24.750 - 00:31:40.190

And he actually went to Harvard as well. But—so I did that for a year. But then took off a year. Went to Baylor. Medical school is hard, and I think it's much

00:31:40.190 - 00:31:55.190

harder now than it was before, just because there is more material, right? And more is known. So, look, I thought it was hard. It was a different way of learning stuff for me compared to

00:31:55.230 - 00:32:09.320

college. I think in college, I probably, maybe took a total of three multiple choice tests. Everything was, you know, essay, kind of what we call the Blue Book Test. You had to write on those lines or whatever.

00:32:09.600 - 00:32:25.840

But I rarely took a multiple choice test. And then in medical school, it's just volume and a lot of memorization. There's understanding, but it's just so much of that. And so that-that was a—it was hard for me to-to

00:32:27.040 - 00:32:43.480

adjust to that. You know, I mean, did I go through probably clinical depression with the amount of stuff that we had to do and all that stuff? Yeah. And as an economics major, right? I had to kind of make double time to learn the stuff because other

00:32:43.480 - 00:32:53.480

friends of mine or classmates. "Oh, yeah, I already had anatomy and physiology in college." I was, like, "they taught that in college?" You know, this-this was not an option at Harvard.

00:32:53.520 - 00:33:05.930

You know, so I didn't know this. It was all new to me. So I felt like, you know, I was kind of behind the eight ball, which wasn't ideal, but okay, you just have to work four times as hard,

00:33:05.970 - 00:33:21.210

right? So, you know, I did. I—at the time in medical school, I kind of made the conscious decision that I needed to be more active in the community, right?

00:33:21.250 - 00:33:36.730

I think at Harvard, I was more, I mean, more active on the team, right? And I saw the importance of that of taking a role in the communities that you're at.

00:33:37.210 - 00:33:50.890

And that's what kind of made me think, you know, I need to—I want to-I want to run for an office. I want to help out. I want to give back, you know? And so to do that, you got to have a role, you know,

00:33:51.330 - 00:34:06.170

put yourself in there and make a difference. So that's what kind of prompted me or motivated me to try to run for an office, which I had not done. I didn't really have an officer position in high school in,

00:34:06.210 - 00:34:22.610

like, the big student government. I mean, I think I may have been officers in some of these smaller things, but that's not like being student class president or something like this. And so, you know, I-I ran for class officer and was elected president for a few years there.

00:34:22.730 - 00:34:40.610

And, you know, I just try to be active, try to make a difference. I mean one of the traditions which I know that they are still doing is something called the white coat ceremony, you know, so for doctors, you know, you spend your first two years or whatever in the classroom and

00:34:40.610 - 00:34:51.830

then—and things change a little bit. But after that you kind of go into the hospitals. That's when you start seeing patients. That's when you start putting your stuff you've learned to work. And then you got to wear a white coat,

00:34:51.830 - 00:35:06.060

right? And so, you know, you know, people used to just buy their white coat at the-at the store or whatever and—the bookstore, you know, and then just go on out. And then me and some of these other guys on our

00:35:06.060 - 00:35:15.540

committees, we're like, you know, we need to make this more special. And so we created, I mean, the very first ceremony at Baylor, the white coat ceremony. And that's something that, you know, I've been proud of.

00:35:15.540 - 00:35:30.880

And I still see it now because they keep asking us for donations, but-but that's a tradition that's continued to go, you know. When I was at Baylor, I was also on the student interview committee.

00:35:30.880 - 00:35:50.100

Because I thought that it was important for students to have a say in who gets accepted, because I think that students will see different things in applicants that interview—more seasoned interviewers who've been in

00:35:50.500 - 00:36:00.190

practice for a long time, may not see. You're just closer to it. And so then if you see something—I mean, because you want to avoid bad situations, right?

00:36:00.230 - 00:36:14.430

Or-or-or bad applicants. So that's something I got involved in a lot. And we actually did not have students on the admissions committee. Until then, until we started making,

00:36:14.470 - 00:36:28.110

you know, "so, hey, you know what? I think this is a good idea. What do you guys think of this?" You know, and so then they started doing that. I'm guessing they still have that now. I'm not sure. And I kind of continued this idea with the admissions

00:36:28.110 - 00:36:43.160

stuff, even during my residency for ophthalmology training. So we did not have residents on the board for the admissions committee. And now we have them, and we do even different events for applicants as they come in.

00:36:43.160 - 00:36:56.640

Especially because in residency—you have—you're talking much smaller number. You're talking a program of maybe a class of anywhere from 4 to 6 people or even maybe two. So if you can see if one is a bad apple, then it's going to make your whole training very,

00:36:56.640 - 00:37:11.810

very difficult. So that's something that, you know, I've continued and in fact in-in my group now—my medical group, I'm-I'm head of our recruiting committee now for those similar reasons.

00:37:11.810 - 00:37:24.800

But, I mean, I've just kind of continued that—I mean, I'm also—I'm now president of our group as well, but this just is the whole idea of giving back. I'm fortunate to be where I am, to have the opportunities I've had.

00:37:25.040 - 00:37:40.440

And so it's just kind of paying it forward to other people who, you know, sometimes just need a little help to get over a hump. And then once they get over, then they're just—they're going great, and then hopefully they pay it forward, you know. So that's kind of my M.O.,

00:37:40.440 - 00:37:54.570

so to speak. Yeah that's incredible. I am a pre-medical student myself, so, you know, I've heard things like white coat ceremonies and student interviewer

00:37:54.570 - 00:38:06.130

committees, but I always assumed they were, like, a long time thing. But it's so— Technically, it still is a long time thing because that's 25 years ago [GP: laughs]. So I was in medical school a while back,

00:38:06.130 - 00:38:18.690

so. Yeah, it's—actually it's more than 25 years ago, but yes. So technically it is a long time thing now. Well, I was thinking, like, 100 years back, but that's very amazing to me.

00:38:18.730 - 00:38:26.370

So we didn't have that before. Yeah. I was, like, you know, this should be more special. How do we make it more special? [GP: Mhm]. You know, because I still remember the

00:38:26.370 - 00:38:37.650

first time we had the-the thing, the ceremony, and we had all the students. We had everybody in the auditorium, you know, the presidents were making different speeches and stuff like this, saying how important it is.

00:38:37.690 - 00:38:46.650

And the faculty was in there. And, I mean, we didn't know if it was going to take off or not, you know, so-so it's like anytime you start something, you don't know what's going to happen.

00:38:46.850 - 00:38:58.780

But it's nice to see literally, you know, a quarter of a century later, they're still doing it. And I'm sure it's—I think it may be a bigger deal now. Maybe parents show up. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I haven't, you know,

00:38:59.420 - 00:39:15.060

been involved. I know they ask us to donate to buy the coats for people, which is fine. You know, I'm happy to do that. But, yeah. So there you have it. Oh, yeah. It is for sure a huge deal, because even my upperclassmen friends who are

00:39:15.060 - 00:39:28.660

in medical school now, I—they tell me about how their families fly in to watch the ceremonies and stuff. So thank you for your efforts. Yeah. And my next question for you is, so at what point in your life were

00:39:28.660 - 00:39:43.940

you inspired to practice medicine and, you know, were there any specific memories, mentors, friendships or realizations that prompted you into this field? So the short answer is yes.

00:39:44.140 - 00:40:01.470

There are many role models and mentors who helped get me where I am now. You know, to-to say that I did this on my own or, you know, I-I'm self-made or whatever would—is,

00:40:01.510 - 00:40:17.870

would be an arrogant mess, you know, and just—it—just would be wrong. It takes a village and-and I appreciate that, you know? I wanted to be a doctor ever since I was pretty young.

00:40:17.870 - 00:40:32.030

And that didn't change as I went through junior high and high school. You know, coming from an Asian background, parents like to, you know, they-they like to say, oh, you should be a doctor or an engineer. And in fact,

00:40:32.990 - 00:40:43.070

interestingly enough, my parents kept saying, don't you want to be an engineer? Your dad's one. And, you know, you're good at math and, you know, but I don't think I liked it as much.

00:40:43.110 - 00:40:58.560

I was, like, it's—I don't like it as much. So, but they actually wanted me to be an engineer. But, you know, between different professors, you know, even classmates, I mean,

00:40:58.800 - 00:41:12.960

the list is very, very long, you know, but I-I'll tell you, I mean, there are so many experiences because I thought I wanted to be a general medicine person. Because I just liked all the stuff. And then I found out that you could be a doctor of just the eyes,

00:41:13.120 - 00:41:21.320

you know? And I've always been drawn to eyes, and I never thought about it. And I was, like, you could do that? And then I learned more about that field. And the more I learned about it.

00:41:21.360 - 00:41:34.560

I mean, I thought this was incredible. And in fact, I remember this is-this-this is even before I knew what I—what kind of doctor—I didn't even know what kind of doctors there were at the time. I mean, like, I come from an engineer family.

00:41:34.760 - 00:41:47.090

No doctors in our families. And then my—one of my advisors in medical school, or not in medical school—in college was actually an ophthalmologist. And he was in training.

00:41:47.090 - 00:42:02.840

He was doing his fellowship. And so he kind of guided me and all this stuff. And I remember as a senior he said, well, why don't you come join us in surgery? I was, like, okay, you know, and then, so I'm sitting here where they're doing microsurgery on through a microscope and,

00:42:02.840 - 00:42:13.090

you know, they were throwing stitches and it's, like, why don't we have Dr. Oh—and I wasn't a doctor, you know, but I think he said that because the patient's awake—cut the stitch.

00:42:13.130 - 00:42:29.370

And I was, like, I was, like, oh my gosh. And so I'm supposed to bring these tiny little scissors to cut this one stitch. And I didn't know this at the time, but my microscope was inverted. So everything is backwards, right?

00:42:29.410 - 00:42:40.330

So you move this way, but it looks like it's coming this way on the screen, on the-in the microscope. And I didn't know this. I didn't know what to compare to because I'm sitting there watching. I'm not doing anything. So it doesn't matter what side people are coming

00:42:40.420 - 00:42:54.260

from. And I eventually cut it. And then after the surgery, I said, "wow, you—this is so hard. I can't believe you can do surgery like this. Everything is backwards and upside down." They said, "what are you talking about?" "Like,

00:42:54.300 - 00:43:05.020

oh my gosh, your-your-your scope was inverted." I was like, "What? I want to hear what that means?" They were laughing at me for days because it was so—it was like, oh my gosh. I was, like, wow, this is, like, amazing.

00:43:05.020 - 00:43:14.420

I cannot believe you do what you do. But actually, that was probably the first time I was, you know, exposed to that. I still didn't know I wanted to do ophthalmology, but it's very funny because

00:43:14.420 - 00:43:30.940

when I look back now, that one person who was a fellow is now a chairman at—in Tennessee, and I still see him because I actually, am one of the oral board examiners for the Board of Ophthalmology, and so is he. And so we see each other.

00:43:30.940 - 00:43:43.310

And I knew him when he was a fellow in training. And now he's gone to different professorships, and now he's the chairman of a-of a-of the Department of Medicine. And it's just it's just a very small world, you know.

00:43:43.350 - 00:44:00.270

In fact, I mean, it gets smaller because some of the students that I—because I teach at Baylor as well now, and some of my own students who I've trained have now been on the board of different things or at different groups or president of these different groups across the country. I'm like, oh my gosh,

00:44:00.270 - 00:44:14.590

that's what you're doing now. You got to be kidding me. You know, "how long ago did you graduate? Like five years ago?" "No, Dr. Oh, that was 15 years ago." I was, like, "oh, I'm, like, okay, all right, let's stop playing this game. But congratulations. This is great. Good to see you again." So-so that's-that's

00:44:15.630 - 00:44:30.110

heartwarming to see kind of those connections, you know, even though you haven't seen people connect. But you know, I-I'll tell you, just especially as I get closer to doing ophthalmology training, I've had so many people, especially in ophthalmology,

00:44:30.630 - 00:44:38.760

kind of direct me, guide me. Do you want to go academics? Do you want to go private practice? What's the best way to think about this?

00:44:39.000 - 00:44:56.080

So, I mean, at different stages of my life, there have been so many people that have just said, do this or do that, think about this or think about that, or, or this is the way you should approach this. I mean, the list would really be endless, but I think the key with all of this is

00:44:56.080 - 00:45:11.200

that, number one, you have to keep your ears open, right? You have to be willing to listen. Because a lot of times our problem is we think we know the answers and we're pretty sure we know the answers.

00:45:11.640 - 00:45:23.480

And so we don't listen. But—and this is, you know, one of the things, you know, I've—one of the tenets that has kind of guided me is if you're willing to listen, people will tell you something you don't know,

00:45:23.920 - 00:45:34.960

you know. And so I've tried to listen. And am I 100% successful? No, but that's something I try to do. Because even when we think somebody can't teach us

00:45:35.130 - 00:45:46.970

something, if you listen long enough, they have something to tell you that will elevate your game. Sometimes we don't have enough time to listen to it, or it takes longer to come out.

00:45:47.210 - 00:46:05.370

But I've realized, especially when somebody is willing to teach you, and you're willing to listen, they'll teach you more, you know, and you just have to close your mouth and open your ears, you know? You know, what's the joke?

00:46:05.410 - 00:46:21.330

You know, God gave you one mouth and two ears for a reason, right? But these people have guided me, and and, you know, maybe it's all not—I don't necessarily have to agree with everything. And sometimes some of my best advisers have given me advice that at the time,

00:46:21.330 - 00:46:31.370

I couldn't even understand why that was a good thing. And but I just implicitly trusted these people. And literally five, ten years down the road, I'm, like, "oh, I see the wisdom in that.

00:46:31.370 - 00:46:41.900

Now I get it. Okay, I'm glad I listened to you." And, you know, because some of these people are just. Okay, whatever you say, I'm going to do it. And if I don't understand it, I will eventually understand it because my brain can't wrap around it yet.

00:46:42.060 - 00:46:54.100

And it's funny to see that come true. So the short answer is yes. I've had so many people, you know, and even now, to this day, I have people who give me advice about all these different things,

00:46:54.100 - 00:47:05.300

and I'm just like, oh, that's a good way to think about it. I just never thought of that, you know? And it just kind of opens your brain to thinking of stuff. But, you know, as we get older, the brain doesn't want to listen as much,

00:47:05.340 - 00:47:21.020

and we think we know a lot of answers and may or may not be right. But, you know, that's what happens when we get older, I suspect. Yeah. That's great to hear how you were able to, you know, open your ears to so many mentor figures throughout your career.

00:47:21.020 - 00:47:39.470

And now it's a full circle, now that you have your own mentees. And my next question for you is, how would you describe the emotional demands and responsibilities of your career. Like, what are some of the most frequently felt emotions in your day to day

00:47:39.470 - 00:47:57.030

life as you practice? So from my day to day experience as a doctor, there are some significant mood swings in a given day. The best ones are just joy, you know?

00:47:57.070 - 00:48:12.470

I mean, I do eye surgery to have somebody who is blind and can now see and just appreciate that. And that's just, it's-it's hard to put into words. You know, you—I mean, I've had people who literally the day after

00:48:12.470 - 00:48:23.590

surgery are crying in my room because it's, like, I've never seen like this. This is incredible. They couldn't do anything because they-they couldn't see. They just-just walking around.

00:48:23.630 - 00:48:41.360

I mean, imagine if you were underwater with your eyes open. That's how their whole life was and it couldn't get any better for whatever reason, something about their eye. And then you fix that and all of a sudden they can see their own face again. See the—just—they couldn't drive,

00:48:41.400 - 00:48:54.640

they couldn't get around, they couldn't, you know, see what was happening. So that's probably the most rewarding, right? You know, day to day. I mean, whenever you do anything day to day,

00:48:54.960 - 00:49:11.120

there are a lot of things that become routine, you know, in terms of regular checks and things like this. You know, on the other end, there are things that are very, very difficult. Sometimes you have to tell people bad news as a physician, and

00:49:11.720 - 00:49:23.960

nobody likes to tell people bad news, right? And sometimes it—I mean, to say to somebody, you know what, you can't see and I can't fix that, you know, this is not your fault.

00:49:23.960 - 00:49:33.970

This is not anybody—maybe it is their fault and you can't see. You are going to be blind. Or you're going to lose this eye, right? Or luckily, I don't have to do this.

00:49:34.010 - 00:49:47.770

You're going to die, right? These are hard discussions you have to have with people. And it's still hard for me, but it is something I have to do every day, right?

00:49:47.810 - 00:50:04.690

So, I mean, I feel like I've gotten better at having difficult decisions like that. But those are not easy decisions to have, or discussions to have, rather. So that's probably some of the harder stuff I have to do.

00:50:05.450 - 00:50:16.330

It can be very frustrating at times. Because people have different expectations, you know. They do- you do surgery on somebody, for example, but they expected something else.

00:50:16.330 - 00:50:30.060

And this is not what I got. Or my body didn't do this, but-but I should have that, you know. And they don't understand that, you know, and they become very frustrated. They become very mad. Everything went right, but it wasn't what they

00:50:30.060 - 00:50:44.260

expected. So that can become very frustrating. Or there's a misunderstanding about something else. And then people can just get upset or people can, you know, people get upset for any kind of reasons. Like, I get upset for all different things.

00:50:44.300 - 00:50:54.340

And, you know, somebody waits too long. You know, "you said I was going to be seen at 10:15. It's 10:30. I—this is unacceptable." I was, like, "well, you know, I apologize for the delay.

00:50:54.380 - 00:51:04.460

You know, we're trying the best we can," you know, but they won't accept it. And so that can become very frustrating. So in the course of a day, in the course of a morning,

00:51:04.500 - 00:51:18.220

I mean, in the course of a, you know, literally a 30 minute period, I can go through all of these things, you know, and that's a typical day, you know, and that's just dealing with patients, you know.

00:51:18.260 - 00:51:32.430

Dealing with insurance companies, that's a whole another frustration. You know, I do a lot of the administrative stuff for my group. You know, that has its own frustrations and things like this and pulls you away from your patient care and stuff like this. So,

00:51:32.470 - 00:51:47.470

I mean, we have all these different kind of, you know, areas where you go through ups and downs, you have different challenges. You just try your best to not get too emotional and too caught up in it.

00:51:47.710 - 00:52:00.630

And do the best you can and try to, you know, keep the end in sight and, you know, try to be fair to people and try to give people respect and hear them. And I think that helps with it.

00:52:00.670 - 00:52:15.590

It—does it solve everything? No. But I think if you can deal with people fairly and they know you're trying to help them and not hurt them, that you're on their side, you know, and you're trying to do what's

00:52:15.590 - 00:52:30.800

fair. You know, sometimes what they want is not fair, you know, and-and you kind of got to tell them that and just be honest with them, you know? Because usually when you're lying, people can tell. They may feel it.

00:52:30.800 - 00:52:45.080

They may not know why you're lying, they may not know whatever—you know, but they can feel it. I think what Maya Angelou, she's, you know, attributed it. You know, they may not remember what you said,

00:52:45.080 - 00:52:57.280

but they remember how you made them feel, right? I think that's not exactly her quote, but something like that. And I think that's 100% true. And I've kind of taken that to heart.

00:52:57.440 - 00:53:14.000

You know, a lot of times there's a lot of complicated stuff in medicine. People don't understand what you're saying, but they understand how they feel afterwards, you know? And so I try to be cognizant of that because as a physician, we get very caught up in facts, numbers.

00:53:14.040 - 00:53:23.370

You know, your creatinine is this. And whatever. They're, like, what does that mean? What is—why is that important? You know, what's a cataract? What's-what's retinopathy?

00:53:23.410 - 00:53:31.490

You know, you know, what's my eye—I don't know, what does that mean? Why is it important? You know, it's like, you know, under control. You're doing fine. Great.

00:53:31.490 - 00:53:45.130

Don't worry about it. I'll see you in six months, right? Something like that. But—so those are kind of emotionally, mentally, the things I go through kind of on a daily basis, sometimes an hourly basis.

00:53:47.210 - 00:53:57.330

Yeah. Thank you for sharing. It's always very admirable and interesting to hear about the emotions behind, you know, the technical, objective aspects of healthcare. So yeah.

00:53:57.370 - 00:54:15.410

So-so, the one thing I'll add to, especially because you're in kind of the beginning phase of all this, is that, this is all an evolution, right? In terms of the way you see patients deal with patients and things like this, and you're talking to somebody who's I mean,

00:54:15.410 - 00:54:26.340

I've been seeing patients for a long time. Like, literally 30 years now, right? So the things you go through in the beginning, like, when you're in medical school, I mean,

00:54:26.620 - 00:54:36.700

you know, you don't know anything, you know, and you're and you're talking to patients. And a lot of times the patients know you don't know anything. Either you're a student, you know, you have a short coat instead of a long coat.

00:54:36.940 - 00:54:51.740

So you will go through different phases in terms of how you deal with patients, what you're feeling. Because especially in the beginning, there's a lot of insecurity. I don't know what you have. Not only do I not know what you have,

00:54:51.740 - 00:55:04.300

I definitely don't know what to do for it, right? And especially even after you finish medical school and now you do residency, it's like you're learning what you're supposed to learn. So in the beginning, you don't know what it is you're supposed to learn.

00:55:04.340 - 00:55:13.660

You know, I got to learn this stuff. But then there's another stage after you finish residency. Now you're starting in practice and you're on your own. You don't have professors next to you saying,

00:55:13.700 - 00:55:22.310

that's not what this is. This is what this is. This is how you have to deal with this. You're on your own. So then there's a lot of questioning. Do I know what's going on?

00:55:22.510 - 00:55:31.990

What do I do for this? And so there's a lot of insecurity. And then how do I talk to patients? How do I communicate this? Is this good news? Is this bad news?

00:55:31.990 - 00:55:45.070

How do I tell them this is what you need? I don't believe you. I don't know, this is not what I need. This is what you need. You know you're going to die if we don't do this. What? What are you talking about? Come on. You know. So there is an entire evolution.

00:55:45.070 - 00:56:02.990

So I'm giving you kind of the end picture now where things are more at steady state. And I know most of what I'm doing. You know, I feel pretty comfortable with, like, what I can do and can't do. So the things that I felt earlier, yeah, things are changed.

00:56:02.990 - 00:56:16.200

So—but that's, that's the whole idea of growth and, but you know, but just—I'm giving you a preview of how things look 30 years down the road. Yeah. Thank you for the preview.

00:56:16.240 - 00:56:27.360

Now that I think about it. Yeah, I think it's incredible how a person must develop from medical school to, you know, like, 30 years down the road. It's a huge transformation.

00:56:27.560 - 00:56:42.360

It's a big process. And I think especially in the stage where you're at, it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel because there's a huge mountain you have to climb, and that mountain gets bigger and bigger.

00:56:42.360 - 00:56:57.400

And I see it because I teach—I teach medical students, I teach residents, right? So I see the amount of stuff that you're going to have to be responsible for, depending on what fields you want to go into. And just getting into medical school is hard.

00:56:57.440 - 00:57:13.160

Getting into residency is getting hard. I mean, everything is getting harder. It's everybody's game is kind of upping, and it's just—a lot of people will drop off-the off that rail, right? Which is fine, right? Because that field doesn't

00:57:13.160 - 00:57:28.960

have enough space for necessarily all the people who want to go in. But all of these, there are a lot of good exit spots for people who want to go into this stuff. That—maybe that's not your cup of tea. And, I mean, there are drawbacks to being a doctor in the

00:57:28.960 - 00:57:41.360

medical field, you know, that you may think, oh, I just—it's kind of like the person who climbs this tall ladder and you get to the top of the ladder and you're top of the building, and you said, wait, I'm on the wrong building. I need to be on that building.

00:57:41.520 - 00:57:54.000

Right? And so then you spend all this time and energy. But you should have asked the question, is this really where I want to go? Right? Because otherwise it's a long road. And sometimes we just get so tunnel vision.

00:57:54.000 - 00:58:07.600

This is the next step, this is the next step, that we forget to ask, is this really what I want to do? Right? Because you can get so far down the road where you feel like I can't turn back now. Right. But anyway, that's a whole, that's a whole another

00:58:07.600 - 00:58:20.290

discussion. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. And my next question for you is what do you see as your biggest achievements in your career

00:58:20.290 - 00:58:35.610

so far? My biggest achievement in my career. Like, my, like, in my doctor's career, you mean? Yeah. Or it could be anything.

00:58:37.450 - 00:58:51.730

Yeah. I don't know. It's hard to say because I don't think of it that way. I try, I mean, I feel like I've accomplished a lot of things, and I've been fortunate to do that.

00:58:53.010 - 00:59:06.450

I mean, like, for example. Oh, you know, I had a a school record in-in my event, right? And I literally just found out, like, literally, a year and a half ago, my record still

00:59:06.450 - 00:59:23.900

is standing at my high school, which is literally 30—more than 30 years now. And in fact, one of my-one of my old coaches just texted me that my club team record was just broken. Like, this past year. And it was—it stood for,

00:59:23.900 - 00:59:36.980

like, I don't know, 32 years or something like this. So I was, like, oh, I didn't think about that, right? You know, I mean, I have—I have great memories of, like, winning Eastern Championships in my event literally by 1/100.

00:59:37.140 - 00:59:50.380

Which was incredible. It was incredible for the team. It was exciting. It was exhilarating. But it's—you got to go, what's the next thing? Right? It's not—you don't-you don't necessarily—I mean,

00:59:50.420 - 01:00:00.300

at the time you think this is the greatest thing you've done, you know? Oh, I got my medical degree. Great. You know, I-I got this teaching position. Great. I got this fellowship. Great. I got this grant.

01:00:00.340 - 01:00:17.350

Great. You know, you know, I got this position now. Great. You know, but this—the-the time you stop and say, oh, I just—this is-this was the pinnacle. You're done. Right? So I don't—I don't know if I'm dodging

01:00:17.350 - 01:00:31.230

the question, but I-I don't really look back and say, you know, I mean, my life is about my kids and my family now, right? So it's, like, you know, they're born. Well, being born is not as huge an accomplishment,

01:00:31.230 - 01:00:41.830

right? But they've done this. I've helped them to do this. You know, I got to coach their little league team. We won the, you know, the 12U World Series for West U. That was super exciting.

01:00:41.830 - 01:00:57.070

That was a big deal, you know, and at the time that was a huge deal. You know, I got to be one of the coaches on the all star teams. This was a big deal. People wanted to do this. You know, I coached a select softball team, you know, and we were—we made it to Colorado,

01:00:57.150 - 01:01:10.280

did all this other stuff. I mean, it was exciting stuff. Some of my players have gone on to play in college. As a matter fact, one of them is playing for Princeton now. These are great things that I am proud of.

01:01:12.400 - 01:01:28.120

I don't—I mean, people really don't ask me what I do that much, so it's kind of—I do a lot of interviews. So I'm usually the one asking the questions, so I don't really sit back and spend a lot of time thinking about these things.

01:01:28.240 - 01:01:40.240

Just-just because I just more focus on what are you doing next? What are the things you have to do? How are you going to get that done? You know, how are you going to help this person? How are we going to fix this in the company? How

01:01:40.240 - 01:01:51.240

am I going to help this patient with this problem? This is complicated. I don't know what I need to do. Let's-let's think about this. Let's make some strategy to come up with this. My kid can't do this.

01:01:51.280 - 01:02:07.610

Okay, well, how do we help him or her get this thing that they want to do? How can I help them with this? You know? So that's kind of the way I operate. So I don't really spend—so I don't have a good answer.

01:02:08.050 - 01:02:21.970

I feel like I've been fortunate to be part of a lot of incredible things, which have been very fun, very exhilarating, very rewarding. But I don't know if I have a greatest hits kind of answer.

01:02:23.970 - 01:02:38.610

Oh, yeah, that's a perfect answer. I wanted to just see, you know, how you would define accomplishments and how you view them. So, yeah. Thank you for your response. And next, I wanted to—I know you mentioned, like,

01:02:38.610 - 01:02:52.330

the different professional organizations you're a part of here and there, but, could you speak a little more about them? So you mentioned, like, the Harvard Club of Houston, Chinese American Doctors Association of Houston and any other ones?

01:02:53.970 - 01:03:08.660

Sure. Yes. I-I think the things that I'm most active in now, right, are, things with my work, right? Like, I'm in-involved in the administration. I'm now the president of our group.

01:03:08.860 - 01:03:20.760

It's an elected position. It's like being a managing partner. So in that respect, you know, I'm helping to do a lot of the day to day stuff, help run this, running meetings,

01:03:20.760 - 01:03:34.340

coordinate stuff. In general, my activity of these different groups and clubs is just along the theme of just giving back, right? And making a difference.

01:03:34.780 - 01:03:50.220

You know, I don't—I mean, I'm not in the position where I need to add a resume. I don't need participation in these things. Frankly, nobody really cares anymore at my age. I'm not applying for any jobs.

01:03:50.500 - 01:04:05.430

So I don't need that stuff. You know, I mean, it's when you're at different stages. Yeah, things are different. But the way I approach things now. I mean, look, when you're in high school and things like this, you want to be-

01:04:05.470 - 01:04:17.910

oh, I've got—I'm involved in this. This is what I should do. This is what I shouldn't do, okay? Blah blah blah, blah, blah. Fine. Now that I've become older and more mature, it's what are things that I believe in?

01:04:18.310 - 01:04:36.190

Where do I think I can make a difference, and what impact can I have to help out? Right? So for the Harvard Club, I'm actually on the board. I run their schools, committees where we actually staff college fairs in the high schools.

01:04:36.190 - 01:04:51.990

So there are different events. And, you know, we have staffed literally over-over a three week period, over 70 events at different independent school districts between Galveston to Beaumont to College

01:04:51.990 - 01:05:05.080

Station. And I coordinate that, you know, because I think that's important. It's an important outreach for us. So I do that. I do interviews for Harvard as well. For students, high school students applying to college.

01:05:05.080 - 01:05:16.280

So I'm part—I'm part of that board as well. Because it's just kind of giving back. Do I get paid for it? No, but I think it's important to be an ambassador for things that you believe in.

01:05:16.480 - 01:05:33.840

That's kind of what I've done for the Houston Eye Associates. I've also been on the foundation, which is our charitable arm that does charitable work. I've been on that board. The Chinese Doctors Association, you know, I've been an officer in that I

01:05:33.880 - 01:05:48.160

don't play as at—as large a role as I did in the past. Just because I've—I'm doing other things now. But that's kind of—the stuff I do. I teach at Baylor as well.

01:05:48.200 - 01:06:05.210

Right? I think teaching is—I like teaching, and I think I have things that I can teach residents, especially ophthalmology residents, that are going to be useful for them clinically, surgically and even, like, career wise.

01:06:05.330 - 01:06:19.290

So I feel like I can add value to them. So I've been-I've been teaching on the Baylor staff for 15, 17, 19 years, somewhere in there. I kind of lost track.

01:06:19.290 - 01:06:33.570

Actually no, it's got to be 19 because I've been with the Houston Eye Associates for 19 years. So yeah, I guess that's 19 years now. So ever since I came back to Houston and actually when I was in Los Angeles, after I finished my residency there, when I graduated,

01:06:33.570 - 01:06:45.850

I actually stayed in town for about a year and a half. My oldest child, my first child was born there. But then I did teach, you know, I had an office there, and I did teach at UCLA.

01:06:45.890 - 01:07:02.940

Taught the residents, you know, because at that point, I know the program. And, you know, so, you know, they brought me on to teach and be one of their attendings before, coming back to Houston. Yeah, that's very admirable to hear how you're motivated by the

01:07:02.940 - 01:07:21.860

idea of giving back. And next, I wanted to ask a few questions specifically regarding the intersection between Asian American identity and medicine. So first, you know, eyes of different races have different medical issues sometimes,

01:07:21.900 - 01:07:42.740

right? So how—do you think—do you have special considerations when treating Asian versus non Asian patients in your practice? Some. It—I don't really see the patients as either Asian, non-Asian, or African American,

01:07:42.740 - 01:07:58.070

Hispanic. It's not—I—people's different eyes have different problems. Right? So I look at it more as the problems that your eyes may have. Right? Do Asians have more—are they more likely to have something like narrow

01:07:58.070 - 01:08:09.510

angle glaucoma? Yes they are. Are they more likely to be more nearsighted in general? Sometimes, yes. Sometimes way more nearsighted, which puts them at certain risk of things like retinal detachments.

01:08:09.750 - 01:08:25.270

But it's not because they're Asian. I have Caucasian people who have this problem. I have Hispanic people who have this problem. I have black people who have this problem. So I look at it more as problem focused in

01:08:25.270 - 01:08:39.630

terms of patients. So that's the way I deal with it. You know, everybody has problems that they didn't want, right? They didn't ask for, they have macular degeneration. So I think all of these problems, I

01:08:39.630 - 01:08:53.000

don't want to say are independent of race, because when we talk about race, you're talking about genes, right? And genes, some people are more predisposed to having some than others. But that's kind of the way I-I deal with that,

01:08:53.000 - 01:09:08.280

I think on the flip side of that, being an Asian physician, I think has more issues than, the patient wise. Right? And there's—I think a prejudice that goes both ways.

01:09:08.680 - 01:09:25.520

You know, I remember when I was kind of starting practice, patients would call the office to make an appointment or something, and they would say, does he speak English? You know, so-so or they didn't want to come or,

01:09:25.560 - 01:09:38.320

like, what is—what is that last name, Ou, what? You know what what is that? You know. There's also the positive bias. They're, like, oh, I only want Asian doctors because I think they're better or whatever.

01:09:38.520 - 01:09:50.170

And it's not necessarily coming from Asians. You know, it could come from, you know, a black person or a white person or whatever. Like, oh, I want all my doctors to be Asian. You know, so there's that.

01:09:50.450 - 01:10:07.210

But, you know, we always have to deal with other people's, you know, prejudices as well, you know? So that's I mean, that's the reality. I mean, especially in Texas, you know, where you may run into more

01:10:07.210 - 01:10:23.650

people who have that idea than if you were in California just because there's more exposure to Asians. So, you know, so you have to deal with that when you're seeing patients and, and dealing with people too. Yeah. For sure. And speaking of, you know, like,

01:10:23.730 - 01:10:37.810

exposure to people of Asian descent, what are your thoughts on the representation of Asian Americans in the general U.S. healthcare scene, as well as, like, specifically in the field of ophthalmology, if that's applicable?

01:10:39.810 - 01:10:55.700

I think Asians are well represented in medicine. You know, I think Vietnamese, Chinese, Korean. You know, probably not as many Japanese just because I think there's just not many Japanese people in America.

01:10:55.780 - 01:11:09.380

But I think we have a strong representation stronger than our general numbers are, you know. And is it related to, I mean, who you could make all kinds of argument what's related to just family background,

01:11:09.380 - 01:11:24.140

work ethic. You're better at math and science. I don't have a good answer for you, but I think we are well represented. And I think generally speaking, in the medical field, we have generally pretty good reputation.

01:11:24.380 - 01:11:40.220

You know, whether it's true or not for every single person, of course, that's not going to apply for everybody. I mean, those are stereotypes, but I think Asians are well represented in medicine. Yeah, that's great to hear.

01:11:40.220 - 01:11:54.070

And what are your thoughts on—I know you touched on this a little bit, but what are your thoughts on perceptions such as, like, model minority or bamboo ceiling, and have you personally experienced, witnessed, or overcame these ideas?

01:11:55.750 - 01:12:10.830

I mean, I think the short answer is yes. I think that being the quote unquote ideal minority can be a blessing, it can be a curse, right? And I'll speak to that from my children's perspective.

01:12:10.870 - 01:12:26.870

Right? It's-it's hard when you have reputations to live up to, you know, whether they're good or bad, sometimes that brings people down and they can't take it. Sometimes it motivates them and says, I need to live up to this,

01:12:26.870 - 01:12:42.630

and I can do that, you know, and it-it affects people differently. Is it fair? No, it's not fair, you know, but it's how we deal with the reality that we're given.

01:12:42.670 - 01:12:57.520

You know, I mean, I feel like my children probably have a lot of pressure. I went to Harvard. My wife went to University of Pennsylvania. So, you know, people say, "oh, your children are double ivy. I mean, what are they going to do? Well, you know, I mean, your dad did all this in

01:12:57.520 - 01:13:12.080

sports. What are you going to do?" You know, so it's—you can't escape some of the stuff that surrounds you. But it's how you deal with it, you know? Is there a bamboo ceiling? Yeah, sure there is.

01:13:12.120 - 01:13:28.520

Absolutely. You know. Is that the entire picture? No. It's not. You know, are there successful Asians that do all these things that can, you know, make it to the top of any kind of whatever in terms of politics, business, you know,

01:13:28.840 - 01:13:40.280

investment banking, whatever? Absolutely, yes. Is it harder for some of these people? Yeah. It is. You know, do they necessarily—can they play the, you know, jock stereotype?

01:13:41.120 - 01:13:56.650

Some can. Some can't. Right? It's just—but that's kind of the reality that we have to deal with. And I think until more people get into more positions and there's more exposure,

01:13:57.450 - 01:14:10.730

people will realize that, hey, we're all kind of alike, right? We all kind of want the same thing. We all want security. We all want our families to do well. We want to be secure. We want, you know, to do nice, fun things.

01:14:11.010 - 01:14:21.930

We kind of all want the same things. Can you do that without having to put somebody else down? Well, that would be ideal, right? Not everybody believes that.

01:14:21.930 - 01:14:33.690

So, and they think I get to go up if you go down, I mean, so I=I don't have a good answer for you, but I think that is definitely a reality. And it's a reality that we have to deal with,

01:14:33.690 - 01:14:48.900

and it's how we deal with it, who that kind of makes who we are and how we want to go through life. I mean, I think a lot of people will go through with a chip on their shoulder saying, you guys, you owe me because of whatever, you know.

01:14:48.940 - 01:15:02.260

And that's one way to go about it. You know, there's another one that says, you know what? These bad things have happened to me, and I'm going to go forward and I'm going to get the job done. Okay. I mean, it's just—it's your own philosophy.

01:15:02.260 - 01:15:21.220

And people get caught up in the story that they tell themselves, you know. And so we have to make sure—I think we tell ourselves a story that will help get us to where we want to go without bringing us down, because there's plenty of things that can

01:15:21.220 - 01:15:40.030

bring us down. Right? And if you get caught in that whirlpool, it can go south real fast and do bad things happen? Yes. Every day. Absolutely. And it's, you know, how you approach things, you know.

01:15:40.070 - 01:15:56.550

And as a matter of fact, I was just telling my-my brother because we were just having this discussion and there's a Chinese fable I used to read to my children when I used to read books and stuff, that and this may—there's a lot of,

01:15:56.630 - 01:16:08.990

I mean, I guess 100% correct, but there's this Chinese farmer who has a son, and then they—he has everybody go. You had a son. This is fantastic. You're so lucky. That's so great.

01:16:09.310 - 01:16:20.310

Maybe, maybe not, you know, and then the son says, you know what? I want to be a lawyer. I don't want to work in the fields. And then the people say, oh, you're so unfortunate. He wants to—he wants to do this.

01:16:20.310 - 01:16:29.630

He can't help you now. Now you got to do it all yourself. That's terrible. You know? And then he just finds a wild horse. Oh, you're so lucky you found a horse. He found a horse for you. Now you can help.

01:16:29.630 - 01:16:38.080

Now that can help you in the fields. He's, like, well, maybe, maybe not. His son falls off the horse, breaks his leg, can't go to school. Oh, that's so unfortunate.

01:16:38.080 - 01:16:48.320

He can't. He can't go to school now. He's got a broken leg. Maybe, maybe not. The emperor comes around, takes everybody's firstborn son. We're going to war. Oh, I can't take you.

01:16:48.320 - 01:16:58.720

You have a broken leg. Oh, you're so lucky. He can't go to war now. Oh. That's great. Maybe. maybe not. Right. So how we think what's good or bad at the

01:16:58.720 - 01:17:11.360

time, we think it's the worst thing that happened. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. Or you think this is the best thing that's ever happened. Well, maybe, maybe not. So it's just how you respond to it and go forward I think,

01:17:11.560 - 01:17:27.960

you know, and I remember when I heard that story, when I was reading it to them, it's always stuck with me because maybe it's good, maybe it's not. But you just go forward. Yeah. For sure. Thank you so much for sharing that insight.

01:17:28.360 - 01:17:46.970

And my next question for you is, what does your Taiwanese heritage mean to you? It means a lot to me because it tells me where I came from and what my parents and my family have gone through

01:17:47.690 - 01:18:04.410

to give me the opportunities I have now. I don't—it's something I don't think I appreciated it as much when I was younger, because you don't have a good comparison for stuff. But I think the older I become and the more I see it, the more

01:18:05.690 - 01:18:22.210

important it's become to me and the more I appreciate it. Is it just because they were Taiwanese? Maybe, maybe not. I think that other people and families have similar work ethics or whatever because of who they are and how they

01:18:22.250 - 01:18:40.980

were brought up. So could other people have the background and impact that I felt that my ancestors have had bestowed upon me? Yes I do. But I do see how the struggles that my grandparents

01:18:40.980 - 01:18:53.780

went through, you know, or great grandparents, because, you know, they went through, you know, World War One, they got, you know, taken over by the Japanese and, and my grandparents could speak Japanese or Taiwanese.

01:18:53.780 - 01:19:05.500

They couldn't even speak Mandarin because the Chinese take over. And then they're forcing people to speak Mandarin. I remember the grandkids couldn't talk to the grandparents because I'd say—when I went to go visit, "what did he say?" And they're, like,

01:19:05.540 - 01:19:16.100

"I don't know, we don't speak Taiwanese." I was, like, what do you mean you don't speak Taiwanese? You—he lives right here. You don't know what he's saying. No, I don't know what he's saying because he's speaking Taiwanese. They're forcing us to speak Mandarin in schools,

01:19:16.140 - 01:19:30.820

you know? So just when you see struggles like that and the hardships they probably went through that I fully don't even understand, you know, I mean, forget about refrigerators. I mean, my grandmother would have to walk, like,

01:19:30.820 - 01:19:46.140

two miles just to go to the, you know, the-the farmers market kind of thing every day and get food back and do this, and that was what she did literally till she was 90 years old, you know, and we kind of take a lot of that stuff and the stuff

01:19:46.140 - 01:20:03.740

we do for granted, but it makes you appreciate what they did and the things that they went through for me to be where I am now. Right? And hopefully my children at some point, you know, while I'm still alive, may appreciate that as well.

01:20:03.740 - 01:20:15.020

But, you know, when you're in the middle of it, you don't think about it. It's just—that's your reality. And then as you get older, your perspectives changes and you see different things, and then you start to have different realizations.

01:20:15.740 - 01:20:30.070

So. Yeah. For sure. And next my question for you is are there any hobbies, sports, religion that you enjoy engaging in?

01:20:32.470 - 01:20:44.590

Yeah, there's-there's a lot of stuff. I have a lot of different hobbies I like to do. I mean, I've always liked to do a lot of different things. It's just we're kind of limited by time. You know, photography.

01:20:44.590 - 01:20:59.670

I love playing golf. Have I done a lot of this recently? No. I love spending time with my children and their sports. Like, my oldest one did a lot of softball. So I was involved with that.

01:20:59.870 - 01:21:11.030

My middle one does a lot of field hockey. So I go with that, you know, and I help them to train as much as I can just to help them out. My son did basketball.

01:21:11.070 - 01:21:24.950

He's doing basketball now. He used to do baseball. So being involved in that has been priceless to me. Right? So that—the time that I get to spend with them doing those things is some of the most rewarding things.

01:21:24.990 - 01:21:39.160

You know, to be able to, you know, win a championship with my son or with my daughter. You know, they may forget about it, you know, but it's still, you know, I still have those memories and I'll still cling to that. And it was still to be able to share that experience with

01:21:39.160 - 01:21:50.800

them, just like I was talking about, just on the team, you know, you're kind of suffering together. You're training together, you're, you know, going out when everybody is having fun and, you know, you're training, doing practice, you know, putting your time in,

01:21:50.800 - 01:22:04.640

trying to get better and then getting better and then being successful. I mean, that's-that's priceless to me. Now I'll have to start picking up more hobbies as they're, you know, starting to graduate, go to college and,

01:22:04.680 - 01:22:22.840

you know, not needing me anymore. So I get to do my own hobbies now or starting to anyway. I see. And my last section of questions for you will be kind of about, like, your advice for the future generations.

01:22:23.080 - 01:22:40.970

So what advice and hopes do you have for the field of ophthalmology in the coming decades? For ophthalmology? I mean, we have had so many advances. I mean, even from the time that I started and graduated from

01:22:40.970 - 01:22:55.250

my training till now, just in terms of technology, in terms of getting people to see better, helping to slow down, stop and sometimes even reverse things like macular degeneration, controlling glaucoma, these things are incredible things.

01:22:55.250 - 01:23:13.890

And we did not have some of these things when I started practice. So to be able to continue these kind of things, and especially as people are living longer to prevent these problems that a lot of people have that are genetic, has been amazing,

01:23:14.130 - 01:23:28.460

you know, and to be involved in that and to be able to share that with patients, I mean, it's a remarkable thing. And, I mean, I hope that path continues as we learn more about genetics, more about these problems, and more about these treatments and these

01:23:28.460 - 01:23:45.380

different drug options. So that's how—that's where I hope ophthalmology continues to go. Yeah. For sure. My next question for you is, do you have any advice for young Asian American adults and also specifically those aspiring to work in the medical

01:23:45.380 - 01:24:02.140

field? So I think that the general advice I would give, and not necessarily just to Asian Americans, I mean, I don't know if you're asking me for specifically to Asian Americans or just young people in general.

01:24:02.380 - 01:24:20.300

I would say to work hard and take things to the next level, right? Everybody can just be on cruise control and drift down the stream. The people who are—and I'm assuming I'm speaking to

01:24:20.300 - 01:24:34.910

somebody who wants to make a difference. If you don't want to make a difference, I'm not going to convince you to make a difference. But if you're convinced that you want to make a difference, then you should work hard and work hard to make yourself the best

01:24:34.910 - 01:24:43.750

person you can be. Right? No matter what field you're in. And continue to get better. The thing—that the moment you think you can't get any better,

01:24:43.750 - 01:24:56.790

you're done, right? If that's in junior high, if that's in high school, if that's when you're 30, 40, 50, 70, 80. I mean, I have patients who are literally in their 90s and they're talking about things that they want to do. And these are the most

01:24:57.110 - 01:25:11.030

active, healthy 90 year olds I have because they have a purpose. Right? So and then I've seen that because I see the people who are that age and healthy or, you know, it's the people who have a purpose. Are they necessarily working?

01:25:11.070 - 01:25:26.960

No, not necessarily, but they are doing stuff and they're helping people. I remember one-one woman, she was literally 85, and she was helping other seniors at the senior center, driving them, taking them to-to their appointments,

01:25:27.000 - 01:25:39.880

helping them do their stuff. And she didn't tell them, oh, yeah, you know, I'm 15 years older than you and I'm taking care of you. You know, but she was driven to do that, and she still is driven to do

01:25:39.880 - 01:25:55.880

that. I mean, this woman's, like, literally almost 90 years old. I think she can't do all the things she wanted to do before, but having a purpose and having the thought that you can always do better, no matter how good you're doing, you can always do better.

01:25:56.160 - 01:26:09.640

Having that idea will get you very, very far, and you're going to have a lot of bumps in the road. But if you just kind of go with the flow and realize it's not going to be a straight path to anywhere you're going to go,

01:26:10.040 - 01:26:26.810

that will help you be successful. And I think the other thing I think that would be helpful, and a lot this applies a lot to Asian Americans is that you have to have the idea or

01:26:26.850 - 01:26:38.890

the desire to give back. This is not a natural thing. Especially outside your own community. Because I know a lot of times a lot of Asians can work hard,

01:26:39.010 - 01:26:56.530

they can focus, and they kind of think about, what do I need to do? But one of the things that will help Asians kind of get out there and get into positions where you're kind of normal and fit in, is to help give

01:26:56.570 - 01:27:12.610

back and to make a difference. Right? So if you get involved, not outside. If you get involved outside of yourself, you have to interact with other people. People see what you can do and what you're capable of

01:27:12.850 - 01:27:29.700

and they realize, oh, okay, This is a good person. And then they will apply that stereotype that they learn from dealing with you to other Asian Americans. And then all of a sudden they give somebody a second chance that they never thought about.

01:27:29.700 - 01:27:40.060

Because I don't know any Asians. I don't deal with any Asians. Oh, they're kind of normal. Oh, okay. And that will go a long way for, I think,

01:27:40.060 - 01:27:54.060

the Asian for, for young Asian Americans. Because a lot of times, like I said, we can get caught up in our own things and our own achievements and accomplishments, and some people accomplish incredible things and take things to incredible

01:27:54.060 - 01:28:11.900

levels. But when you do that path on your own and don't get involved in community, I think that-that can become a weakness for a lot of Asian Americans. Yeah. For sure. Thank you for your response.

01:28:12.180 - 01:28:35.710

And my very last question for you is if you could go back in time and give a piece of advice to your younger self, what would it be? I think if I had to go back, I would just tell myself to do what you're doing.

01:28:36.710 - 01:28:48.540

You're not always going to be right. But just do what you're doing and soak in what you're doing, right? Because I think we get very

01:28:48.540 - 01:29:06.750

tunnel vision, narrow minded in terms of accomplishing the things we want to accomplish. And we forget to smell the roses or see everything else that's going around you. I mean, we all have only so much bandwidth. But I think that getting to where I've been,

01:29:08.510 - 01:29:22.920

I've missed opportunities with people or things or situations where you want to take it in. Be present in the moment. And I mean, I've been guilty of that.

01:29:23.000 - 01:29:38.520

Being focused on so many things, you know, and-and trying to do the things that I've done. I wouldn't change anything that I've done. You know, I mean, good and bad, because I think that makes who we are. It makes us tougher or weaker, you know?

01:29:38.560 - 01:30:00.280

So I wouldn't change any of these things, but I would just tell myself to soak it in and be aware and be present. Yeah. I think that's a very beautiful piece of advice for your younger self. But those are all the questions I had prepared.

01:30:00.320 - 01:30:10.320

But did you have anything else that you'd like to share with us? No, I think I've shared a lot. You know, as my kids would say, you can stop talking, dad, I'm not listening anymore.

01:30:10.520 - 01:30:10.960

So.