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My name is Nori Guthrie from the Woodson Research Center Fond Library at Rice University. I am interviewing Rich Leighton. Today is December 11th 2017. This is part of the Houston Folk Music Archive, oral History project. Could you tell me about your early life? Gosh. Um I

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think about music as being the thing. That was always true. It was as a kid. It was just always gravitated to music. And um and then there was a period in my life that was a very uh crazy dysfunctional family kind of stuff and music was

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my solace. It was my escape. Um And somewhere there's a super eight floating around at me with a plastic guitar doing ain't nothing but a hound dog at around I think age four or five. And then I would spend a lot of time at my grandmother's

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house playing melodies on the piano and just sort of getting lost for a long time. So, uh native of Saint Louis Missouri, uh Catholic school where we had sock hops at the high school after school where, you know, kids took off their shoes, danced in their

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socks. It was, you know, the nuns and everybody was around. So it was, uh, everything was above board, but I can, Tina Turner played at the gym and Chuck Berry played at Catholic church gyms when I was a kid. And so all this incredible soul music

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and early rock and roll was, was all around us in, in Saint Louis. When did you end up coming to Houston, uh moved to Houston right at the end of grade school and started high school, public high school in Houston, Texas. My dad worked for Anheuser

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Busch, the brewery. And when they built the plant here in Houston, he had an opportunity to move the family. So we reached a state velocity from South ST Louis and moved to Houston, Texas, which, you know, definitely opened some, a lot of horizons, all sorts of

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horizons. So one of the ways it, Houston open horizons for me as a, as a kid who grew up in South Saint Louis was, uh you know, just all the music that was here and in particular, being introduced to the blues for the first time. So

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John Lomax Junior used to present Lightnin Hopkins at the Jewish Community Center out on, on brawd, which was in my neighborhood. And so we would go and, or I would go by myself typically and, and sit and, and you'd have to kind of listen to John

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Junior do his sort of, you know, field hollers in this sort of opera, operatic voice and then lighting would come out. There is a story about how I almost changed the course of blues history by running over lighting on the parking lot one night pulling in

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a little VW microbus and he'd been walking down the middle of the, of the parking lot. It was kind of dark and it, and I stopped and I opened up the window. Sorry, Mr Hopkins. And I think he already had a neck brace on from another

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accident. So I was like, oh man, um what was the Jewish Community Center? What did that look like on the inside? What was that like? Uh I mean, it, it, it's, it's, it's very much of it was an uh a theater that they had created there.

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So, you know, just, just a theater seating and, and a stage at the bottom was this special? It wasn't in the synagogue or anything like that. It was just in a, in a uh auditorium, I guess that they had so. Right. Right. And the other piece

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about coming to, to, to Houston was uh, you know, getting in a garage band. I don't know if you've taught, you know, done, read any of the history about sort of the Texas Garage band explosion. But uh so many bands came out of, came out of

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that and for some reason, um you know, kids in Houston and Austin and Dallas, uh gravitated to getting guitars and, you know, going out in the garage because their parents didn't want them in the house. Um, I used to come home from school and put on

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records and sing along at the top of my lungs. And one day there was a knock at the door and a couple of guys, I went to school and my mom would let him in and they said, we heard you singing, you need to be in

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our band. And it's like, wow, I'd always wanted to be in a band. So, uh, we started a little garage band and then they complained and they said, well, you know, we all have to practice an instrument and you're just singing. Well, I'm playing tambourine. So

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I went to the music store on Post Oak and I, I bought a, uh, harmonica, first harmonica, brought it home and because at the time the harmonica was a rock and roll instrument, uh, with the yard birds and, um, some of the other British bands that

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we were all listening to the harmonica was a rock and roll instrument and it was, I hadn't been introduced to it yet as a folk instrument or a blues instrument. Um, do you remember the name of that band? Let's see. I think one of those, the,

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the first band was good feeling and, uh, and the other one was shades of silence and there's a picture somewhere where it says shades of silence on the drum head and we're all lined up. I think that's actually was the first one. And we played a,

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uh, Johnston junior high combo competition, the combo festival and the judges were the moving sidewalks. Billy Gibbons first band. And so over the years I've always reminded Billy when I've seen him. Oh, yeah, man. Judge my first comic contest, which we didn't win. But, hey, we

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were there. So, um, why did you end up moving to Austin? Um, I went to, I went back to college at Washington University for a couple of years in Saint Louis. Um because I was kind of homesick for the place, but the college itself just wasn't

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a really great fit for me. Um Although we did uh opened a coffee shop so that we have a place to play music and uh because we were getting chased out of the dorm for doing that and I ended up meeting some, some guys there who

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became lifelong friends in Austin uh institutions. Um Steve Steve Dore and Don Leady who uh have a very legendary band called the Leroy Brothers, uh kind of early rockabilly band, sort of before the Cosmic Cowboy thing came out. So, but Austin just seemed like the next

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place to go for college, essentially. So, uh transferred to Austin into the radio TV and film school and uh moved into a house and I guess about, we were there about this there a couple of weeks when Steven Don from Saint Louis called up and said,

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well, we're thinking about moving to Austin. And so they came down and they camped out in a tent in the backyard of this house that I was in for a couple of weeks till they could scrap, you know, get enough money together to get a, a

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mattress, a couple of mattresses rent a house. And, uh, the reason I talk about them is because they introduced me to Lucinda Williams. I said, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you need to meet this, this gal. We know that plays guitar. So I, we met and I invited

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her over to dinner and she didn't leave for two years. And it, you know, you, you talk about meeting someone in your life who that's the moment where the trajectory just radically changes. And it did, you know, we and I picked up the harmonica again seriously

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at, with her encouragement and uh we started playing all over Austin together. There's some, some pictures that I've found of the two of us on the campus and we used to play uh on Saturday on what's called the drag, which was the big main thoroughfare right

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across from the campus where people sold beads and pipes and leather wear and musicians set up their guitar cases and we would play for tips on the drag and then hole in the wall club and uh little clubs all over town. And Lucinda started traveling back

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and forth to Houston because she had discovered this place called Anderson Fair. And after about a year or so of going back and forth, she talked me into moving back to Houston, which, you know, having been to high school here and having my family here, I

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had no desire to come back to Houston. But uh the experience that I had of Houston was 180 degrees. From my experience growing up, we moved to a place, you know, inside the loop as they say, and uh we were part of this, you know, this

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nexus of songwriters and hippies and, you know, oddballs and misfits of which we, you know, misfits fitting in with misfits. I love that. Um But yeah, that's, that's, that was how it sort of brought me back full circle to Houston and, and then into the music

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scene about what year was that I wanna say it was, I graduated. So I think it was 75 that we came back and found, you know, found a place and then I found a job and, you know, I just kind of dug in and, and, uh

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you know, figured out how to cohabit for the first time ever. This is an interesting experience. Um What kind of work did you do at the time? Well, I, yeah, so I have this degree, but it was the radio, television and film degree, particularly at, you

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know, in the late seventies was a ticket to not very much. And uh a high school friend of mine got, uh, got a job for me fixing Volkswagens at a place. Uh I drove by where it used to be on the way over here. It was

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called Good Karma Garage. It was kind of on the back side of, uh, the old Sears store down there. And in the course of working at Good Karma Garage. I, I did a tune up on a car of a guy that worked in the medical center

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at the University of Texas School of Nursing. And I applied to be an audio visual, you know, technician and then work my way up. And, um, I had a, you know, my corporate career, my official job, corporate career lasted about three or four years and, and,

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uh, and then I found myself juggling, you know, I think I can make it in music, but I can also do these other things at the same time. Was that, was that hard to kind of be in both worlds? Well, yes. Um, and it's funny, you

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know, II, I took grief for not committing 100% to music, but people certainly appreciated the fact that I was the guy with the job, the paycheck, the car that always ran gas money, you know. Um, but I took on a lot of responsibility for the band

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that, that I was part of at that time called Doctor Rocket, uh, and eventually became Doctor Rocket and the Sisters of Mercy. And, you know, we were probably making three or $400 a week per person because we were playing, you know, as much as we could

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and it was a very, as you've talked to other folks, I'm sure heard about what a vibrant music scene. Um, there was at that time, late seventies and early eighties and, uh, Doctor Rockin and the Sisters of Mercy was sort of the, I call it the,

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the Jay Giles band of Houston, uh sort of hard rocking party blues. A lot of, a lot of big parties, a lot of big outdoor events that had a real kind of a scene, uh, tied in pretty closely with the urban animals, the roller skating group.

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So to take a step back from, yeah, because I jumped out. That's right. You're fine, you're fine. Um I just kind of want to explore a little bit about, um, the places maybe starting in a Anderson Fair and some of the other places that you were

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playing when you first arrived with Lucinda. Right? So Lucinda was part of the really the core group at Anderson Fair and that the time we got here, Towns Vanzant was still here. Um Guy Clark was, was back and forth between here and um, uh Nashville, I

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believe, uh Nancy Griffith was here. Eric Taylor was here and um I became the house harmonica player. Uh I got to play with all these singer songwriters just by virtue of, you know, being in this, this sort of nexus as it were. And, um, and it

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was really about the instrument accompanying uh and um adding textures, uh not so much notes and licks but kind of, you know, kind of, kind of being underneath what's happening uh in the song and, uh, and you know, adding an emotional component to it as well.

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And I uh Lightnin Hopkins, I got to play with Light and a couple of times also at Anderson Fair. And, uh, I don't think I ever told him the story about that. I was the guy that nearly ran over him. He would have kicked me off

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the stage right away. Um, and then that, that scene, uh, we played Quirky, I guess. Um, we played, uh, you know, so many places that were gone but it was the, the coffee shop, uh, you know, at Anderson Fair. You played, you played for free spaghetti

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lunch. That was very popular. People came over from, came up from downtown to get a plate of spaghetti, meatless or vegetarian and a piece of bread and a little salad. And I think it was, you know, 34 bucks. So the place was always packed for lunch.

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And so we all would take a lunch shift to play and, and make tips and then come back in the evening and play at night. So it was a really interesting community. It was a, it was a neat little place to be. And then at some

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point, it, the, the folk music piece started to not quite bring in enough people. And so Tim Leatherwood started to introduce some other kinds of music. And, uh by this time, uh uh I had met rock Romano, Doctor Rocket and that band came in on, on,

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on, uh Blue Wednesdays. We had a Blue Wednesday thing and it was kind of blues on Wednesdays. And then, uh, uh, Rocky Hill, uh, the late Rocky Hill who is Dusty Hill's brother from, uh Z Top came in and did a Blue Wednesday and rock played

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bass. I played harmonica, several folks played drums and, uh, Rocky was like a blues drill sergeant and, and he knew every, you know, every lick and every signature part to, to just this whole volume of blues material and he insisted that we get it right. You

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know, he insisted that we, we play the signature parts that made those songs distinctive. Um And I lament the fact that so much of blues has become what I've called. 12 Bar Code blues. It's very commoditized. It's very generic. Uh But, but Iraqi would yell off

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from the stage, you know, he'd, he'd go, ok, push your turn that beat to the drummer, you know, which meant da da, da, da, da, da, da, push through the turn and he, and he yelled at me, lay out, OK, laying out, I'm laying out, I'm

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not pointing and uh so that was very, very steeped, steeped in, it was like grad school, it was really like grad school for me. And it allowed me to, to then, you know, be able to, to uh uh play with a lot of other blues folks

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and, and not embarrass myself essentially. So, so kind of to understand. So, you know, there's the playing um with the folk performers then that moving into blues playing with Rocky Hill. Did you also play, who were some of the other people that you played with? Uh

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around that time? I played uh with Alan Haynes, who's a guitar, blues, guitar, rock and blues guitar slinger, uh who's now out of Austin, he was very influenced by uh Johnny Winter. Um There was a band little Junior one hand in the blasting caps. Um And

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uh uh Little Junior was a just AAA great, great musician from uh San Antonio, I think originally or was he from Dallas? Oh, well, anyway, um these guys who played with all these, you know, Texas legends as kids, I mean, in their, you know, 15, 16

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sneaking into clubs. So little Junior one hand in the blasting caps. He was a little more uh put a little bit of a twist on it. He was an entertainer too. So he might play a slot, start a slide solo and then go grab a beer

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bottle off of somebody's table and then he might, you know, go over and take your high heeled shoe off and play with that. And then he had a few, you know, shall we say, questionable sex toys that he would reach into his bag and complete his

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solo with. So, but, uh but also, you know, besides that really talented, talented guy, um Herschel Berry and the natives sometimes, uh you know, just the thing for me was like, well, we don't need a harmonica player. Well, but you see, I really play the harmonica

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in a very ensemble fashion and I've got a course pedal so I can sound like a keyboard or maybe like, you know, people would come up and say, man, I thought there was a horn section out there and I'd go thank you very much, you know.

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So it was the idea that of not having the instrument be in one musical ghetto uh which it still kind of today is, you know, people, oh harmonica, blues instrument. And like I say, I always approached it first as a rock and roll instrument. Uh and

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then through folk music and then through blues and then kind of back through kind of, you know, alt country, um root rock. It's kind of where I'm sitting with it now. So, um how did you come to join Doctor Rocket? And then later on Doctor Rocket

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and the Sisters of Mercy uh Rock was uh was in the uh advertising business and he wrote a jingle for a store, uh chain called Randall's. And the jingle was, you know, Randall's your remarkable store. And so he would have different people come in and play

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it and he brought me into the studio to play a harmonica version of it, you know, and I had to kind of learn it because I wasn't used to playing in that melodic style. But he'd seen me around and he, and, and so he invited me

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to be a charter member of the band, which was really an honor. And uh it's funny, rock remains one of my oldest dearest musical mentors to this day. And uh I had a play date with him yesterday, hung out in the studio and drank coffee and

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just visited all day. Um And, and uh I guess he introduced us to all sorts of rhythm and blues. You know, we did Ray Charles songs, we did um uh Fats Domino songs. We did a lot of Louisiana music and there was a certain point, uh

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the, the, he was living with a woman who was a, a, you know, a singer in her own, right? And she kind of had this concept for what if we added a couple of, you know, female singers, um who became very animated and very much, you

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know, characters. And as part of the stage show, I don't know if you've ever seen the talking heads film Stop Making Sense. I haven't been on my list. OK. On your list. So, you know, so, so David Bean talking has put a couple of women in

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the bay in the band. Very, very, uh, uh with a lot of moves, you know, and a lot of energy and they flew back and forth across the stage and we had been doing that. So I was like, well, ok, we, we, we were ahead of

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something here. So it was a, those were about really high energy shows about leaving it all on the stage. Um So, yeah, yeah, that, that was Doctor Rockin and Sisters Mercy. And we, you know, we had our, we cut the first digitally recorded live album. We

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had, um, um uh pick hit and Billboard. We had, we just had all these great things. What we didn't have was a business team and it was all sort of, you know, roll your own self managed, self promoting. It was, and there's a certain point where

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it's like you just run out of, of energy to do everything that's required and do it. Well, when what you're really supposed to be doing is writing more music and creating a body of music that you can monetize over time. And, uh, so we didn't get

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much farther than out of the sort of the Gulf Coast circle. But, but I learned an awful lot about running a band. I learned an awful lot of showmanship. Um It was in the course of that band that I got to meet some of the other,

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you know, fabulous mentors in my life. Um, Buckwheat Stanley Durell. Buck Zico. The late, unfortunately, we lost him in, uh, September a year ago, uh, an accordion zic accordion player from Louisiana. And we opened for Buck and somehow I was just amazed by that music and

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Buck really liked what I was doing and he gave me his card and said, you know, call me sometime. I think we can do something. And I kept thinking, well, guys who speak sort of French that I can't understand. Are this band over here, Doctor Rocket?

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That seems to be going places. So I, I didn't make the job. Um, but, uh, but I stayed, you know, in touch with Buck for all these years and, and have, uh, played with him so many times and, and spent so much really wonderful time before

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we lost him last year. Um Yeah. So with Doctor Rockets, um, you're saying that kind of, you guys peaked out because it was hard to kind of spend the time writing the music and doing some of the other bits because the promotion was pretty hard. Can

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you talk about that a little bit more, um, in detail or like even the gigs that you guys did that? Yeah, I, um, you know, it's, it's, it, there was a certain point at which II I say rock would handle the business for a while and

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then he'd get burned. Out on it and then I'd pick up the slack and I'd handle the business for a while until I got burned out on it. But, uh, you know, it required doing the posters, sending out the mailers, uh, you know, sending out the

00:22:05.949 - 00:22:21.790

press trying to get articles written about us. Um, and we had a lot of great support from the Bob Claypool who was the writer for, I think the Chronicle or was he the Houston post that I forget? And uh uh you know, folks that were really

00:22:21.800 - 00:22:36.430

in our corner and they, you know, they recognized that there was a lot of heart in what we did. Uh And, and the energy and, and it, you know, it was about a communal good time. Um But, you know, there's another issue about Texas is you

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got to drive a long way to get to another market. I was thinking about bands that are successful on the east coast where things are a little more concentrated or bands that break out in Europe because you can drive an hour and be in a completely

00:22:51.619 - 00:23:10.349

new market and drive another hour at another country in another country. So there's something about basing out of Texas, which just puts a geographical constraint. Uh You were talking about your own visit to Santa Fe, imagine driving to Santa Fe in one day as we did

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and then getting up and playing a show in Santa Fe at a mile high, by the way, I thought I was gonna die. Where's the oxygen tanks? So there's, there's that piece, you know, El Paso Corpus uh other than Austin and Dallas, you know, all these,

00:23:27.989 - 00:23:42.469

these markets, these places to go play. We're, we're a long way away. Um What were some of the places that you played in Houston, uh Fitzgerald that I happened to visit last night because the Sarah Fitzgeralds has had to come back and take the place back

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over. So the old, the old Polish dance hall in White Oak and ST um, uh satellite Lounge, which, which was, uh, uh, run in the Rockefellers, which were run by, uh Susie and Sanford Kriner at the time. Um, Corky's, uh, the room, Pete and Pat, a

00:24:01.780 - 00:24:23.079

fellow named Pete Sellon was one of the really great impresarios, uh around town. He would put a club uh, in the funkiest part of town because it was cost effective. And somehow, no matter how across the tracks, it was a wide range of people would eventually

00:24:23.089 - 00:24:36.949

start to come because they heard about the buzz and Pete was a guy that got up on stage and before the band started, he would tell you who was coming next week and why you needed to be there and what, you know, where they fit in

00:24:36.959 - 00:24:50.150

the Firmament. And if you were missing that you were just, you know, it was gonna be a big hole in your musical education and I've talked to a lot of club owners, particularly after I moved to Portland and met some people who just, you know, were

00:24:50.160 - 00:25:06.660

wondering what to do. And it's like you have to promote, like Bill Graham. Did you have to become an impresario? You know, and, and you are educating people and you are getting them excited and you are making them feel like they're part of something so they

00:25:06.670 - 00:25:23.969

don't want to miss out and, and it's a very different way to go about, you know, running a AAA music venue and it's kind of a lost art. So I think along with the, the Anderson Fair sort of core folk scene, what spun out of there

00:25:23.979 - 00:25:40.349

was that kind of Texas singer songwriter thing and quirky and theaters and there was a whole collection of, of clubs where, where that kind of music, uh you know, drums, electric guitars, uh which were sort of uh not allowed that often at Anderson Fair at the

00:25:40.359 - 00:25:55.920

time. And so I had a chance to, to meet and play with Jack Saunders and had a little band with him called the Hot Air Band because there were two woodwinds in the band myself, about two people blowing me and harmonica and Buddy Duncan on the

00:25:55.930 - 00:26:18.949

saxophone and clarinet and flute sometimes. And then, and Jack, um and Jack, you know, been a, been a tremendous uh mentor and supporter of me, just really dear friend for a long time. Uh, Danny Everett, um, Shake Russell and Dana Cooper. Um, Rick Gordon. Um, you

00:26:18.959 - 00:26:30.719

know, Lucinda, of course, we spun out and did a little bit more band stuff. So that, that whole scene and you could play happy hour one place with one band and then you could go and you could run across town or not even across town, but

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a few blocks away and play the 9 to 1 shift with somebody else. And then in my case, I'd go home, go to sleep, get up and be at work at 7 30 in the morning. So, and, and Vince Bell was a really fabulous guy to

00:26:45.739 - 00:27:00.719

get to play with and eventually become part of his band as I've moved around the country. Now, I've realized that kind of every, every city has its Bruce Springsteen character. You know, that, that, that, that just, you know, rock and roll soul, uh, with, you know,

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just something to say and a way to just captivate a big audience and take people along for the ride. And Vince at the time was, was that guy. And, um, so me on harmonica and him on guitar, we could be a little rock and roll band.

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We had really high energy stage presence and we traveled all over. Uh, we played in Beaumont every Thursday night, drove over in my Volvo station wagon and then on the way home since I had to be at work in the morning, Vince would drive and I

00:27:30.729 - 00:27:47.670

would sleep with the two big P A stacks and if he hit a corner too hard, they'd fall on me and wake me up. Mhm. But at that time, you know, you could burn the candle at three ends, not just two. Um, can we, um, take

00:27:47.680 - 00:28:09.579

a moment now? And if you could kind of explain and demonstrate how you play the harmonica for different genres of music or specific performers. Oh, good question. OK. So this is the harmonica there it is. How about QD and diatonic harmonica is 10 holes and the

00:28:09.589 - 00:28:37.719

sharps and flats of the scale for the key are built in so that you don't have to change them. So you play them melodically and in country you'd play. So that's straight, straight harmonica first position. Um as a blues instrument, it has some things that, that

00:28:37.729 - 00:29:06.829

it has some flatted seventh and it has some things musically that allow you to bend notes in that expressive kind of soulful way. So same harmonica, but you approach it with a different, you know, with a different set of patterns to play. Um So that's playing

00:29:06.839 - 00:29:19.219

it as a blues instrument in second position. And uh you know, but I don't want it to be in the blues ghetto, you know, I want it to be a rock n roll instrument and a folk instrument. Um And then I've had a chance to, you

00:29:19.229 - 00:29:36.739

know, Zydeco music. Cajun music is something that I've always loved. And Buckwheat had the, has the greatest, had the greatest stage lines. He had his tag line. And when I first met him, his tagline, was it be that way sometime? And I happened to be in

00:29:36.750 - 00:29:58.939

Memphis driving to uh some place along along the river and I would always have a harmonica with me and I started playing it in a different way. I started playing chords in first position. And so I was like, you know, I kind of came up with

00:29:58.949 - 00:30:33.510

a occasion kind of thing that you could do on this harmonica. And that became the signature for a song called It Be that way sometime. And uh when I play this, which I typically do through a, a microphone like this, uh plugged into a few pedals

00:30:33.520 - 00:30:46.459

and an amplifier and it becomes a different instrument and a little chorus effect on this. And you get a really people go, oh, I thought I heard an accordion up there. So, um and I don't know if you've talked about Frank Davis in your series. If,

00:30:46.469 - 00:31:05.170

if people are familiar with Frank Davis, the uh amazing artist from the Daddy grand granddaddy of the arts and music scene here. Um He had an instrument called the Daddy Banjo, which was a snare drum with a stratocaster neck on it and some electronics inside some

00:31:05.180 - 00:31:19.729

big knobs and a pickup. And he had a uh a microphone mounted on it just like this so he could sing. And for years, I had just not been happy with all the microphones. I had tried out and um we were playing at Anderson fair on

00:31:19.739 - 00:31:31.550

a blue Wednesday and way in the back in the corner in the backstage, I found this microphone look just like this and nobody knew who it belonged to or anything. They said, well, you know, take it home. So I took it home. I gave it a

00:31:31.560 - 00:31:44.869

try. It was, I found my voice as a harmonica player. This is my sound. This is it, this is what I want. And so I started playing it all the time. And maybe six or eight months later, we were back at Anderson Fair. I think by

00:31:44.880 - 00:31:57.660

this time I was in Doctor Rocket and, uh, Frank came up to me at the break. He said, you know, that's the microphone from the daddy banjo, don't you? And my heart just sank. Oh my God, Frank, I'm so sorry. I, I had no idea. Nobody

00:31:57.670 - 00:32:10.890

told me and he said, well, I really like what you're doing with it. And so I want you to have it. And so, you know, uh this is not the original Daddy banjo, but it is the style the model uh of the Daddy banjo that I

00:32:10.910 - 00:32:26.979

still have. The daddy banjo, Mike saved. Um, and just, it's just a, such a cool connection to that person. And that time and to be acknowledged by another artist that, you know, this used to be mine, but you've done something else with it. And now it's

00:32:26.989 - 00:32:47.800

yours that really, that really touches my heart. Still. Eventually your time in Houston came to a close and you moved on to Portland. Uh Why did you make that move, Jack Saunders? We were at dinner with Jack Saunders and my wife and I and Jack and

00:32:47.810 - 00:33:05.640

his wife were making fun of me as the guy who never took a vacation. Um The fact is II I tell people being rich, Leighton is two full time jobs. It's not one, it's two full time jobs and one is this, you know, consulting practice that

00:33:05.650 - 00:33:25.359

I have um based on my passion for cutting the cost of confusion and I love figuring things out and finding simpler, better ways to describe complexity to other, to other people. And, and I have found a niche in that that allows me to support continuing to

00:33:25.369 - 00:33:43.800

be a, you know, Rich Leighton, the songwriter, Front man, you know, Chief Bottle Washer and all the other things that you do to be a musical artist. Um The piece of the story that, that, that is the, the, uh that, that's the, the turning point was

00:33:43.810 - 00:34:01.540

that I had to leave Doctor Rocket and really leave rock and roll full time because of hearing damage. Um Doctor Rocket was a loud banned and uh we didn't really understand, uh you know, Tinnitus and hearing damage and tinnitus are, are tinnitus depending on what part

00:34:01.550 - 00:34:17.679

of the country you're in. Tomato. Tomato, uh is a high pitched, typically a high pitched ring in, in your ears. It's created in your brain because the hearing, the hairs that pick up those frequencies have died off. And so I had to draw a line in

00:34:17.689 - 00:34:32.669

the sand and said, I, you know, this is a, this is not quite debilitating, but if I don't stop now, it's gonna only get progressively worse. Um, so I had to find out a way to continue being a musician, but with, you know, certainly with ear

00:34:32.679 - 00:34:47.909

plugs, but in just, you know, different formats and stepping back and taking breaks from time to time, I would jump back in, I played with Johnny Reno and the Saxo Maniax out of Fort Worth, Texas and toured with them and again, my ears started screaming at

00:34:47.919 - 00:34:59.699

me and I had to dial it back. So it's always, it's been three or four times in my life where I've hit that wall and had to step back and take a break and figure out some other way to come back to music and then go

00:34:59.709 - 00:35:15.260

this way because I just, you know, it's the thing that, you know, you can't be happy without having in your life. So, uh, Portland, that was sidelight. So we're at dinner and Jack and, and is making fun of me. And so I said, we'll just go

00:35:15.270 - 00:35:30.679

on your vacation. We'll just, we'll go on your vacation. They were going to Seattle. So we joined them in Seattle and then, uh, my, uh, Austin roommate, uh, who, who, uh, lived with, uh, who I live with with when Lucinda moved in with me was in

00:35:30.840 - 00:35:48.040

Portland. So we drove down to see him, spent a few days there when we got back to Houston and the plane hit the runway showing and I looked at each other and went, oh damn, because we realized it wasn't where our hearts were resonating anymore. Our

00:35:48.060 - 00:36:02.260

hearts had been stolen by this other part of the country and it took about 2.5 years, I guess, to kind of talk it through and we both tried to get jobs up there and um and finally it was just like put the house on the market

00:36:02.270 - 00:36:20.310

and go for it because otherwise we might not reach escape velocity. So we moved to Portland and um, you know, the idea of, of starting a, of starting a band was just totally foreign to me. I was fortunate enough. Um My introduction was hot. I'm Rich

00:36:20.320 - 00:36:34.810

Leighton. I play harmonica and you're gonna love the notes I don't play. And that always got a laugh and an invitation, you know, to sit in with somebody. And then as long as I, you know, carry through with my promise, you're going to love the notes.

00:36:34.820 - 00:36:51.689

I don't play. Um that opened so many doors for me and I played with some, some of the most respected guys, sweet, generous people who allowed me to shine, have a spot, sing some songs, you know, sort of bring my Texas thing onto the stage in

00:36:51.699 - 00:37:08.570

Portland. And, um, I just realized that, that I, I wasn't quite fulfilled in that way and I missed the music that we were playing here. And, uh, Buck Buck, we came to Portland to play and I sat in the truck with him for about two hours

00:37:08.580 - 00:37:23.449

outside the club in the afternoon and he just called me on it. He goes, why don't you have your own band? Why aren't you doing your own stuff? People are gonna wanna, and I would make an excuse. Oh, we just had a baby and I, you

00:37:23.459 - 00:37:36.969

know, and he's so, so, no, he just kept laying it out there and he just kept challenging me and challenging me until it's like, ok, all right, next time you come back, I'll have a band. I promise. And then I went looking for those people that

00:37:36.979 - 00:37:51.129

wanted to do this kind of Gulf Coast, rock and roll. Um You know, here in the Gulf Coast, we are influenced as musicians by so many different kinds of music that most other parts of the country and musicians in other parts of the country aren't ever

00:37:51.139 - 00:38:07.189

exposed to. There's a Cajun piece, the blues piece and the three or four slices of blues, the Houston blues, the Fort Worth blues, the Dallas blues, the country blues. Um, a little bit of, you know, Mexicali Rose, I call it, you know, uh, uh, uh, different

00:38:07.199 - 00:38:22.610

kinds of, uh, of Mexican music and then country, of course, and, and Delbert mcclinton who's, you know, the, the, the guy who's got a foot in the blues and a foot in the country and nobody can rock and roll and nobody can figure out where to

00:38:22.620 - 00:38:42.199

put him. So all of us are blessed who came up musically in this area in this geographic bowl here are, are blessed and cursed by that by that experience. So people have had to kind of come and learn what I grew up on and it's been

00:38:42.209 - 00:38:58.879

really satisfying to, to be able to be a mentor in that way and turn people on to the things that I was turned on on to. Do you wanna talk a little bit more about your band? I answered an ad for a rock and roll band

00:38:58.889 - 00:39:12.389

that wanted it up, a harmonica player and a singer which never happens. I mean, you either want, you either want one or you want the other. You rarely want both. And I joined this band and, and started bringing some of the material in and then uh

00:39:12.399 - 00:39:27.889

the sort of the main person had to relocate to another town. So they asked me if I wanted to front the band. So I said, sure, I had fronted a band before I left Houston called The Generators. And so stepped into this band and brought in

00:39:27.899 - 00:39:42.570

some of the things that we had done. Um, you know, brought in some John Hyatt, brought in some Steve Earl, brought in a boat load of the Blasters and Dave Alvin. Um, and then, you know, I can play a Jack Saunders song. Jack's happy for me

00:39:42.580 - 00:39:59.120

to play a Jack Saunders song and tell people who wrote it. Uh Danny Gardner and the Romeo Dogs, another great Gulf Coast rock and roll writer, please, you know, feel free to do my songs, record his songs, in fact, um, and get them to a wider

00:39:59.129 - 00:40:14.300

market, you know, and get them and just get other people to hear them because that's what we as songwriters. They don't do us any good unless they're out there speaking to an audience. So, um so this band for be, for, for lack of a better name

00:40:14.310 - 00:40:26.610

is like, well, you know, we've got this attitude and we want to kind of market ourselves a little bit as you know, what, what we call ourselves is, we get a little truth in advertising. So we call it the troublemakers, which at the time, you know,

00:40:26.620 - 00:40:42.729

was just right eventually as I started bringing more of my songs in and as people would come to town, Lyle Lovett comes to town once a year and has been so generous to have me up as his special guest and, and, you know, he would always

00:40:42.739 - 00:40:54.229

say, you know, my good friend, Rich Leighton and his band, you know, they never would tell you who the name of the band is. So everybody said, well, why don't we start, you know, putting your name on the front of the band so that we can

00:40:54.239 - 00:41:08.800

take this name recognition and try to leverage it to some extent. So it's been Rich Leon and the troublemakers now, I think 10 years been together for 10 years. Uh One album out of the shoot with a couple of originals. The second album I had been

00:41:08.810 - 00:41:26.550

writing songs for decades and decades and uh because I don't play the guitar, the only way the songs ever come out to the world is for me to sit down with somebody that plays guitar and slap my leg and sing the lyrics with a melody. And

00:41:26.560 - 00:41:41.459

when I do that, the chords, you know, it's pretty obvious what the chords need to be, at least to start with. And, and Jack Saunders is one of the first people that, that I felt safe enough with, that's pretty naked, you know. Um And then it

00:41:41.469 - 00:41:54.889

helped to find out that some other pretty legendary people. There's a fellow named Arthur Alexander that's written hits in the fifties and sixties and he walked around scraps of paper in his pocket and he never played an instrument in his life. So getting over that kind

00:41:54.899 - 00:42:08.649

of, uh uh uh embarrassment, I guess you will or that feeling that I couldn't do it because of the, the song sat for all those years for that reason, one or two came out with, through Doctor Rocket. But, uh I sat down with my band and,

00:42:08.659 - 00:42:25.969

and we came up with a body of songs to do an album called Tough Town that, uh, that charted and that got some uh great recognition in Europe. And, uh we were doing some festivals and things had really kind of, you know, started to kind of

00:42:25.979 - 00:42:43.889

roll with this record and my hearing went completely off the charts. My, my tennis went completely off the charts uh to where it was, it was my voice. And while I was singing with earplugs, while I was playing harmonica with ear plugs, this ringing just got

00:42:43.899 - 00:42:59.540

louder and louder until it was just, I was having an anxiety attack on stage. So we had to just shut it all down and that band kind of dissolved and I ended up having surgery and being able finally to come back, uh, on my own terms.

00:42:59.909 - 00:43:16.439

Uh And it's been five years tomorrow since I had that surgery and the doctor was great as they were rolling me in, they were playing my CD on the, on the, in the, uh, in the operating room. And I thought, well, that's a good omen, you

00:43:16.449 - 00:43:32.979

know, and they really liked it. So that was kind of cool. Um, so I'm working on another one now. It's, it's been a long time, um, uh, and just started the pre-production process to do another record because it's just, that's it, that's gonna be, you know,

00:43:32.989 - 00:43:48.350

my legacy and, and, uh, as songwriters, we just want to get those things out there and, uh, you know, and, and I'm doing it for all the people that, that, that saw something in me before I recognized I had, I had it, I don't know if

00:43:48.360 - 00:44:05.080

you've had that experience. But, um, you know, and I told my, I told my son, I said, no matter what you do in this life, always be sure that your confidence trails your talent, you want your confidence to trail your talent, you never want it to

00:44:05.090 - 00:44:17.429

be the other way around, you know, because that gets you in a lot of trouble. So, uh perhaps I've done that to a fault that my confidence has been way behind what, what somebody would have, you know, said, well, you got some time with your kids.

00:44:18.149 - 00:44:34.139

So, uh, so a late bloomer as a songwriter, I guess, and a, and a, an artist in that sense. Um and having an obligation to the songs and to having a point of view and to, in my case, I want to uplift people. I mean, I,

00:44:34.149 - 00:44:50.239

I, I'm, I'm always about hope and so somehow, no matter how bad it is for those characters and those songs and those people that come to me, uh there's gonna be a little ray at the end that keeps them going. So when you write, um do

00:44:50.250 - 00:45:09.300

you generally, are you generally kind of creating characters or are you also kind of using some influences from your life? I have not written uh a lot of songs from my own personal point of view. II, I started to um it's usually telling a story. Um,

00:45:10.000 - 00:45:30.699

um, or, you know, or, uh, some, a line comes to me. I, um, Lucinda has a song about somebody that we all knew here. Um, and, um, I'm trying to remember what it is. It Baton Rouge or is it Lake Charles? No, it's Lake Charles. Sorry,

00:45:30.709 - 00:45:47.030

sorry. The song tells Lake Charles and it was about a friend who, you know, he was, he wasn't from there, but he always wanted people to believe that he was. And, uh, he had a yellow, pale yellow Cadillac convertible, always wore a pretty, you know, linen

00:45:47.040 - 00:46:03.889

suit, white linen suit and he was at what you would call and do. Well, and, uh, one day I'm driving down the street and I just go, I'm Diamond Jim and I've lost my sparkle. Some people say that I've lost my way and I was like,

00:46:03.899 - 00:46:20.850

it was Clyde, it was Clyde. It was like Clyde, I can picture him. I could see him. And so, you know, that turned into a, something that joined with people that I used to see come out of the video poker, uh, Dens that were behind the

00:46:20.860 - 00:46:36.080

stage or off to the side of the stage in, in, uh, in Oregon, at the places that we play. You know, these sort of faded jaded gamblers who are down on their luck and all that's left of them is, is hitting the video machines. And, uh,

00:46:36.429 - 00:46:48.939

another one of my favorite songs is a song called Maria and Ramone. And I was driving down the Gulf freeway with my family the other day and I said, oh, this is where I saw the car that inspired that song. And on the back of the

00:46:48.949 - 00:47:04.800

trunk of this car, beat up car was, was this beautiful Pinstripe, Maria E Ramone. And I just imagine the life of these two people very much in love driving this beat up car and all the things they might do to, to find a little joy and,

00:47:04.810 - 00:47:16.959

and a little hope in their lives. So those, you know, those things happen and then you kind of come back and I didn't quite have something for a few years and I almost called live and I almost get, and I finally, you know, no, I'm gonna

00:47:16.969 - 00:47:32.199

get it. I'm gonna gut it out until I get the story. Just right. So, so a meticulous process when you, you know, because you don't want to throw away stuff, you don't want to repeat yourself um try not to at least. Um but the songs in

00:47:32.209 - 00:47:47.959

my case, because of the influences, you know, there's a, uh you know, a Mexicali Rose song and that Maria and the Ramone, there's a Cajun song, uh be that way. Sometimes there's some country, there's some blues influence stuff. So when a record comes out, it's just

00:47:47.969 - 00:48:02.629

not one kind of music which makes it a little bit difficult for people to kind of figure out who you are, what you do. So, um, so that's a challenge. But I'm finding more and more that, that, that, that's sort of coming back around that, that

00:48:02.639 - 00:48:21.239

some musical variety inside of, inside of a record is appealing again to people being in Portland, you've kind of been able to watch what has happened in Houston's music scene. Um What do you think about that? Right. You know, I've been really blessed to be able

00:48:21.250 - 00:48:36.330

to come back often to Houston and uh pick up right where I left off. Doctor Rocket has done some, some uh anniversary shows. Uh I can come to town and find somebody to play with almost every night. Uh I run into a friend of mine Fitzpatrick

00:48:36.340 - 00:48:54.580

who met in 1983 and uh and he's out there, you know, beating the boards with everybody, you know, rock, I stay in touch with. And what I realize about this music scene is, is not that different from every other music scene for contemporaries of mine for

00:48:54.590 - 00:49:16.149

my peers. And that's, that, it's kind of, it's not growing, uh, it's maybe holding its own in most markets. Um, and, uh, couple of things that made me think about that and as a, and as a father, you know, a late in life dad watching, you

00:49:16.159 - 00:49:32.280

know, watching my son, what I've realized is that the Houston music scene, uh, and the time that it was sort of at its real, you know, uh pinnacle was, was also a time when there just weren't a lot of other entertainment choices, there weren't a lot

00:49:32.290 - 00:49:50.540

of other ways to connect to people. And, uh, you know, my generation, we found our tribes by, by, you know, through music and through, you know, bars and clubs and then, you know, in high school, you gravitated to the kids that like the music that you

00:49:50.550 - 00:50:08.090

liked or somebody introduced you to music you'd never heard before and, and broaden your horizons. Well, today, you know, the people from our generation aren't getting out as often as they used to. They're not spending their money and that kind of time they found their tribes,

00:50:08.100 - 00:50:29.199

they moved on to other places to connect. They have built communities in a different way and young people, uh you know, can connect over, over uh video games and computer games. My son, you met people all around the world on Minecraft and hosting his own server

00:50:30.520 - 00:50:48.000

and, and, and playing, you know, guitar hero instead of playing the real guitar for a long time. And I tried to explain to him, man, if you'll pick up the actual guitar, you will develop something that is satisfying for life. And it also might get you

00:50:48.010 - 00:51:04.729

more dates than just being good on guitar. Heroes. So, so he did pick up the guitar. Thank goodness. So this scene, so the scene is, I, I don't know. I, I'm, I'm, I'm concerned that we are, we are dinosaurs and we're going out in, you know,

00:51:04.739 - 00:51:23.399

on, on 11, the knobs are turned on 11 and it's not that the music is not important to us. It's not that it's not better than it's ever been. It's that music doesn't have the same cultural relevance for young people that it had to me and

00:51:23.409 - 00:51:40.520

maybe a couple of, you know, maybe, maybe I'm a Boomer, so maybe, uh maybe Gen X that came after Boomers. Um But yeah, that, it's what it is. It's, it's music has become a kind of a background, uh kind of a, a soundtrack for living your

00:51:40.530 - 00:51:56.560

life versus being your life. Uh going out to clubs to hear this, this band on this night and this club on this night and this club on this night, I still see a few diehard hardy fans doing that. Um And recently we played some place where

00:51:56.659 - 00:52:11.350

some 20 something guys sat and, and, and went nuts for our show and I had to go talk to them afterwards and said, how do you, what do you gravitate to this music? Well, it turns out they've been listening to John Hyatt and Rodney Crow. So

00:52:11.360 - 00:52:32.209

they had an appreciation for songwriting and an appreciation for Americana music. So, uh, maybe there's, there's that piece of it that I'm, uh, you know, ok, I'm an Americana artist, you know, and, uh, and I'm listening and watching, uh Sturgill Simpson and, uh, uh, JD mcpherson

00:52:32.959 - 00:52:51.100

and other newer, younger folks, they're not playing, they're playing the same chords and they're going to the same, well, that we've all gone to for years but there's something, they're wrapping it up in a slightly different sonic package maybe and something else is happening. Uh, somebody

00:52:51.110 - 00:53:08.399

said, maybe that they've just got better marketing machines behind them. Um, but, you know, I know that it's not, there's nothing wrong with the music. The music is not dated relative to 20 something and 30 something. It's somehow make closing the gap and getting it into

00:53:08.409 - 00:53:31.860

their world in such a fashion that they don't automatically dismiss it as being, you know, old time, old, oldies or something that's not relevant to them. Is there anything else that you would like to cover? Mhm. Let's see. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, so, uh, I'm, you

00:53:31.870 - 00:53:44.689

know, so grateful to, to, you know, to this effort, um, and to be able to get some stuff out of the drawers at my house and the boxes that I've loved around for all these years. Um because, you know, it, it was a, it, it, it,

00:53:44.699 - 00:54:00.270

it was a special time and place here. Um in terms of the level of creativity and, and what people carved out and the lives that people have made for themselves, you know, to be able to see my, my old friend Lucinda Williams at the top of

00:54:00.280 - 00:54:21.149

her game and Lyle Lovett at the top of his game and to see these folks, you know, have really made it really broke out, really established and they didn't compromise. Lucinda Williams didn't compromise that much because I encouraged her to compromise a lot to just try

00:54:21.159 - 00:54:34.860

to, you know, get it and, and she just didn't and she, she's made it and held out and she's made it on her own terms. And that's, that's really, really very cool. And as you asked me to think about this whole endeavor here in the times

00:54:34.870 - 00:54:56.979

that we spent talking, I realized that, that I was the first harmonica player in this Texas music scene and uh to kind of, you know, create an identity and a brand and a, a find my voice and, and make all these connections and soak up all

00:54:56.989 - 00:55:11.830

this music that in turn, I was a, you know, become something that I can, can use to incorporate into the music that comes back out, you know, when it does come back out. So from that standpoint. It, it's not, you know, it's like, ok mom, I

00:55:11.840 - 00:55:27.760

really didn't blow it. I, I'm telling you, I really didn't blow it. It was a good choice. Well, thank you so much for coming in. It's been really interesting. You've provided a very kind of different view on the scene since you were a harmonica player and

00:55:27.770 - 00:55:33.620

also just kind of playing with others and um your viewpoints. So, thank you so much. All right, thanks so much.