00:00:16.820 - 00:00:28.050

Good afternoon, Dr. Byrd. Good afternoon, Dr. McDaniel. How are you? I'm doing well. I saw you, I saw you rubbing your arms.

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Is it cold where you are? It, my, my office is basically an old conference room, and it has three vents in its, it's, it's used to conditioning air for twenty people, I guess. And so...

00:00:47.490 - 00:01:01.820

I came, I came a little bit better prepared today with another, an extra layer, because you can never, in Houston in the winter, you can never be sure that the outside won't be warm and the inside won't be cold. It should be the other way around.

00:01:01.830 - 00:01:24.170

I think the inside's always cold. For me, that's how it's turned out. Yes. Well, it's great to be with you again on a Friday at around noon. Of course, this is our same doc talk time and doc talk place, and we wanna welcome all

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of our guests who are filing into the audience. We're really glad that you're here today. Of course, we welcome you back any Friday. We are the co-chairs of the task force.

00:01:36.170 - 00:01:59.960

I'm Caleb McDaniel and my co-chair, Alex Byrd. We get together every week on Zoom, really just to give you a window into the work that the task force is doing right now and some of the research that we're grappling with, some of the documents that we are sorting through from the archives as we, as we work

00:01:59.960 - 00:02:15.560

on our charge, which is to discover and disseminate the history of Rice University's history and its entanglement with slavery, segregation, and racial injustice. I think I'm quoting from the charge. Did I get that right?

00:02:15.590 - 00:02:35.930

Yes, I think so. You can find that charge and other information about the work of the task force on our website, which is taskforce.rice.edu. And we invite you to go there and also to join us here for our doc talks each Friday.

00:02:37.040 - 00:03:00.770

Dr. Byrd, what should we talk about today, or is there anything, new developments that we should discuss on this particular doc talk? Well, I think we, we would be remiss if we didn't spend a little time at least, so ordinarily, right, we dig into historical documents and the, and the questions that

00:03:00.770 - 00:03:31.430

they raise for us, and the ways that they may inform the work of the task force. I think it would make sense this week to depart from that regular agenda just a little, because it was a big week for the university in terms of some issues that have been a part of our work, and that is the disposition of

00:03:31.430 - 00:04:04.370

the Founder's Memorial and questions around the academic quad more generally, and so I think it makes sense to, to maybe take about 20 minutes or so and reflect some about the announcement that came from the Board of Trustees and its relationship to some of our past work on doc talks and the updates of the task force.

00:04:04.370 - 00:04:34.760

So that's what I thought I would, I would kick off this, this afternoon, as much as I always, I hate to be first, but I'll, I'll get going. So thumbs up if you can see my screen, and only the right parts of my screen. Awesome. So here, here is the notice that, that came from the, the

00:04:34.760 - 00:04:59.630

trustees. This particular version, what we're seeing now is the version that was sent out by the alumni office. This is the one that came to me as an alumnus of the university. So what we're looking at here is a letter with the Rice seal and the Rice word

00:04:59.630 - 00:05:32.270

brand at the top. It's addressed "To the Rice Community." And, and it takes up, goes on to explain, how the board responded to the suggestions and recommendations of the task force and what path that the trustees were going to set us on moving forward, which, to quickly

00:05:32.270 - 00:06:00.500

summarize that path, it's, they have agreed with the recommendation of the task force that the academic quadrangle is in need of bold change and will begin planning for a major redesign of the quadrangle as soon as possible. And they also came to a decision about the disposition of the statue of William Marsh

00:06:00.500 - 00:06:33.850

Rice, that it will be moved from its present commanding position of the quadrangle to some other position in the quad, and it will be joined in the short term by additional monuments that speak to the larger story and evolution of the university. I feel like I took too long on that part, but what I want to focus on, this isn't a doc

00:06:33.880 - 00:06:52.060

talk, I'm not treating this letter as a, as a document. But I do want to, in the normal fashion of doc talks, but I do want to go to what ends up being on my note... Although...

00:06:52.060 - 00:07:06.880

I'm sorry, go ahead. Although I have to say, you know, one can imagine future historians of the university returning to this document. I think it is a historic document, even if it's not yet historical.

00:07:07.090 - 00:07:32.200

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, it's a rich document and has a lot, a lot to be considered. What I just wanna focus on now is what is the first paragraph of the second page in my iteration of the, of the note, where the trustees attend to a topic that we've taken

00:07:32.200 - 00:07:57.130

up on several occasions on doc talk and that of course the update focus is on, and that's the significance of space in the quad, really, space and storytelling to be more specific. And it's in this paragraph that the trustees agree that the quadrangle needs bold change.

00:07:57.580 - 00:08:23.560

And it's also where they quote from the resolution of the Student Association concerning the Founder's Memorial, that it should no longer be the "singular focal point of attraction" of the, of the area. And what that, what, what that attention to space does for me is that it recalls some of

00:08:23.560 - 00:08:53.920

the attention we've paid to the design of the university and the, the, the desire by the original architects of the university and the first officers of the university, that the, that the, that the courtyard itself, that the architecture of the university itself, be a essential part of the curriculum of the university.

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That, that the buildings and the space have something to teach and to offer the students that are here. And this attention to space and storytelling and the importance of storytelling in, in the trustees' document turned me, or reminded me of some of those early intentions

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of the, of some of the important pioneers in the building of the university. And it also reminded me of some of the time we've spent, on, on this program, speaking about the ways in which the history, the fullest history, of the university was not yet quite represented in, in the space of the, of the, of the quadrangle.

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I remember at our very first doc talk, I think it was our very first doc talk... It was, I think it was. Okay. I remember it like it was yesterday.

00:10:08.320 - 00:10:35.200

Ah, time. We ruminated on the ways in which this photo from the Houston Chronicle of Jacqueline McCauley leaning up against one of the archways of the Fondren Library and the ways that it suggested African American history and a black presence at

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this key moment, and the ways in which it might inform, right, the quad as it stood in, in the mid 1960s, but also what it suggested about what might be missing from the quad to this day, and that the trustees have agreed needs to be addressed. It also took me to reflecting on the success, the real success

00:11:14.060 - 00:11:39.140

of the earliest officers of the university in using space to the ends that they desired to use it. And so I'm reminded, was reminded of this photo of the unveiling, the ceremony around the unveiling, of the, of the Founder's Memorial, on the, on the location that was

00:11:39.140 - 00:12:08.730

essentially, I'm sorry, initially, chosen for it. And the real power that that, that that place, that that location, has, has held for the quad since the, since the unveiling. And it raises for me, what, what possibilities now are opened up, right, what

00:12:08.750 - 00:12:40.910

possibilities are opened up by a redesign of the quadrangle, and the, and the moving, the relocation within the quadrangle of the Founder's Memorial. And I'll stay on this picture for just a little while longer, because I think one of the things that it does is that this process opens up new historic

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moments, right, as, as the quadrangle is redesigned and new artworks are placed in the quad, we will develop, right, new and telling historical documents that, that are pregnant with meaning, that allow the members of the community to reflect on the evolving history of the university in the ways that these officers and faculty and

00:13:13.130 - 00:13:38.990

graduates of the university were doing in 1930. And I, if you'll allow me some optimism, right, I look forward to what those moments will be and how they will be captured. The decentering of the Founder's Memorial to make room for other significant moments

00:13:38.990 - 00:14:09.260

and stories to be told in and by the architecture of the quad, and for me, also opens up the concept of "founders," right, the concept of what are the most important and telling moments in the history of the university, and how should they be represented in the physical curriculum of, of the university?

00:14:09.260 - 00:14:34.520

And I look forward to the ways that members of the community tackle that, that question. When and where has the university been founded and refounded, invigorated and reinvigorated, and by whom? And how will we recognize those, those, those great moments in our history?

00:14:34.520 - 00:15:00.830

So those are, those are some of the things I've been thinking about, not a, not a normal doc talk, right, but I'm curious, I'm curious what the time between the trustees' announcement and this doc talk, what has passed through your, your mind as well.

00:15:02.360 - 00:15:27.440

Well, it's interesting you use the word "curious," 'cause I think that's, that's a word I would use to, to characterize how I'm feeling and thinking. And I'm curious, like you, to see what, what will come from this announcement. And one of the things that I was thinking about as you showed the photo of the veiled

00:15:27.440 - 00:15:49.130

statue, before there were buildings even enclosing that, what we now think of as the quadrangle, it was already being imagined as a, as a quadrangle, because the, the early designers of the campus were thinking with the future in mind. And they were, they were looking far ahead to think about how they could lay things out

00:15:49.130 - 00:16:15.100

in such a way that, that the university could grow and, and change. And it seems to me that we're at a similar moment where, where the board has, has indicated a desire to, to bring in the best available thinking about space and, and design, to, to commission a designer, which was also something that the

00:16:15.100 - 00:16:37.420

task force highly recommended, who, who is more expert, if you'll allow me to say it, than either you or me, at thinking about space. As historians, and what we typically do on, on these doc talks is, is work through documents, and we, we know our way, or I hope the audience will agree that we know our

00:16:37.420 - 00:16:55.860

way around an archive. We at least, I think, know, know our way around archives better than we know our way around a drafting table or blueprints. And the early, the early officers of the university understood that as well, you know,

00:16:55.930 - 00:17:22.900

they knew when to, to turn to people whose job it was and professional expertise it was to think about how this "physical curriculum," as you called it, could be built in such a way to, to reach forward in time, and, and to, to help communicate some of the, the values or aspirations that, that those officers had for the Rice Institute

00:17:22.900 - 00:17:54.070

into the future. And so now I'm curious to see what kind of design now in 2022 can be imagined that would also project forward in time, look back as you've been talking about, what were the, what were the moments that were important in the founding and refounding of the university, but also, what are, what are the, the aspirations that,

00:17:54.070 - 00:18:18.880

and values that a redesign can communicate and project forward? And so I'm curious to see who will be selected for that very important job, and, and to see what kinds of ideas they'll bring to what is a challenging set of, of tasks that, that the board has, has laid out.

00:18:22.180 - 00:18:49.750

Just a lot to look forward to, I think, a lot to remain curious about, and I hope, I hope, excited and optimistic, for a large number of our community. I wonder, let's, so this may not work, but let's, let's give it a try, Dr. McDaniel, let's, let's, let's try.

00:18:50.080 - 00:19:24.160

We've got a decent-sized audience here who's used to using the chat, and I, and I wonder, let's invite them, in, in the chat, to speak to their initial reaction to the decision by the trustees, but, but also what they are looking forward to, and what they are curious about in terms of the future development of the, of the quad.

00:19:24.170 - 00:19:51.370

So I wanna invite our, our audience now to jot down, if you would, in the, in the chat, how, how you have responded to and thought about this decision over, over the last few days. We would really like to hear from you. Maybe I should've warned them early on.

00:19:51.850 - 00:20:17.830

While we're waiting and giving them a chance, I'll just add something else that came to mind as you were showing your last image of, of Lovett Hall, and you were, you were talking about, I think maybe I'm interpolating, so you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but, but you were talking about how, if, that one of, one of the potential

00:20:17.830 - 00:20:44.500

outcomes of, of changing the quad so that, so that what we know as the Founder's Memorial is not the singular focal point of attraction, is that it makes room or space for thinking about other focal points, but also other founders. It kind of then opens up the question of, of who the founders of the university as we know

00:20:44.500 - 00:21:01.720

it today are. And when I saw this picture, it reminded me that there's other, other places on campus that, that we also use that word to describe. There's the Founder's Court, which is, is there in front of the, the, the Lovett Hall.

00:21:01.720 - 00:21:18.340

And it's always kind of, I've always wondered, you know, even though there's the Founder's Memorial is the Founder's Court referring to the same, the same founder, or, or is that talking about "founders" plural? "Founders Court" plural.

00:21:18.700 - 00:21:43.240

I think about the Founder's Room, which is in the building that's displayed here on, on campus, that hasn't always been called the Founder's Room either. Initially it was the Faculty Chamber where the professors would, would gather in Lovett Hall. And of course, its function has changed over the years as well.

00:21:43.240 - 00:22:07.660

It's now a major conference room where some pretty historic events at the university have, have been held over the years, but its configuration has changed as well. If you've, you've been in it, I was thinking back to our first task force meetings, some of which were held in that room, and if you've been in the room, you know that it's,

00:22:07.660 - 00:22:34.990

it has on the walls, portraits of the members of the first, the first Board of Trustees of the Rice Institute, although that always, that hasn't always been the case either. Originally, there were not paintings on the wall, then there was a painting of William Marsh Rice on, on one wall in the center, and then at some point, that painting

00:22:34.990 - 00:23:04.440

was moved to the sides, to the side and made room for other portraits as well of the first members of the board. So I think you can see in miniature, in a much smaller way, a similar kind of making space, both in the space, but also in the story for a variety of figures who have contributed to the founding of the university.

00:23:04.440 - 00:23:23.130

And so maybe, maybe you can answer for me, I should look at the campus map next time I go out there, if it's is it "Founders-apostrophe Court" or is it "Founder-apostrophe-S Court?" I'm, I'm going to have to look again, but when I just rely on my memory, I feel like

00:23:23.130 - 00:23:33.300

one of them is plural and one of them is singular. And that could be the source of the confusion. Could be. Could be. Yeah.

00:23:33.420 - 00:23:59.610

But it just, it makes me think of your point about the possibilities that, that are opened up for thinking about the founding of the university in a, in a capacious way that, that even though we've continued talking about the Founder's Memorial, it raises the question of, of who the founder and founders of the university have been, so.

00:23:59.610 - 00:24:21.540

I see one comment in the chat of the concept of a "physical curriculum," that, that phrase you used, that evolves much like our classroom curriculum does. The things that we've taught in our classrooms, that's a good point, has changed over time, along with the student body, and perhaps in the same way, the physical

00:24:21.540 - 00:24:37.560

curriculum needs to change and has changed as well. I mean, again, that, that photo you put up that did not even have all of the buildings in place yet is a, is a testament to that, that the campus has, has changed over time and had new features added to it.

00:24:38.880 - 00:25:04.800

So I'm excited as well, as long as we're talking about space, about the new student center that, that is, is due to begin construction soon, that, that I think will, could, could change the way that, that we even think about the center of the university, which, which, which quad is "the quad" on campus, and is that, has that always

00:25:04.800 - 00:25:18.840

been the same and will it always be the same? So there, that's a, that's a helpful comment, to kind of compare the curriculum in the classroom to, to the curriculum of the campus. So thank you for that, that comment, and thank you, Dr.

00:25:18.840 - 00:25:43.380

Byrd, for giving me a little, a little, a little boost of optimism and forward-looking thinking about this. I'm excited. There aren't, right, these, these types of moments don't happen every day, right, these types of moments don't happen every day.

00:25:45.310 - 00:26:00.400

Well, I don't know if we should switch gears a little bit to our more usual doc talk format or not. Let's do, let's, let's do. It's maybe a good segue, thinking about student center and thinking about space, to a

00:26:00.400 - 00:26:19.840

document that I was actually, let's be honest, a series of documents, that, that I was hoping to talk with you about. And if I can pull up my browser here. I wanted to start, although I'm not gonna end here, with a photograph that you've,

00:26:19.840 - 00:26:42.880

you've probably seen before and maybe some of our, our audience members have seen before. It's a black-and-white photograph that shows four black students, and they're wearing poster board, or three of them are. They're, they're engaged in protest, and on these posters that they're wearing are

00:26:42.880 - 00:27:13.450

written some mottoes that I'll just read one here in the middle, says, "One whole black professor. Give us another token, please." And another poster being being worn by a woman on the right says, "Integration with segregation brings about demonstration." And, and there's also another, a fourth figure, who's not looking at the cameras, looking in

00:27:13.460 - 00:27:30.040

another direction. It's not really very clear from the photograph where these protesters are standing. There's a large open field behind them, but the, the backdrop is a little bit blurry, and so it's kind of difficult to make out where they might be standing.

00:27:31.060 - 00:27:49.030

But one reason I called attention to this photo is because recently there's been some updates to the metadata with this photo on the, the Woodson Research Center's webpage. You can see here... You used an interesting term there, Dr.

00:27:49.030 - 00:27:58.360

McDaniel, I wanna, I wanna pump the brakes. Did you say the metaverse? There were some changes to the metaverse? What?

00:27:58.360 - 00:28:16.990

The metadata. Now, we're not quite to the point where we can put on our VR goggles and be here in the picture, although that would, that would be interesting to think about in the future. No, the metadata are these, these categories, probably we could get one of our

00:28:17.200 - 00:28:37.180

archivist friends in the audience to define this better than I could, but you can see here that there's some, some keywords, the date, the description, the citation, keywords associated with the photo, the publisher, those are all the metadata. So the data, I guess, in this case, is the image itself, the metadata are all of these

00:28:37.180 - 00:29:04.690

things that aren't in the photo, but that, that we know about them, or we thought we knew, but what I was gonna, gonna point out is that although the date here says 1972 for this photo, until about a week ago, that date read 1976, put this protest in 1976. And so we've got two dates that have been associated with this photo, and actually,

00:29:04.690 - 00:29:27.700

there's a third that I could mention, which is that when the Rice University magazine, for a series of articles noting the 50th anniversary of black students at Rice, they included this photo and a timeline of the university's history, and here you can see that they put the protest in 1977.

00:29:29.200 - 00:29:50.450

And so, and that's what I always assumed as well, is that this was a protest for faculty integration, and it says here in the metadata, the title of the photo, from the mid to late 1970s. But then I was, I was looking for other reasons through an issue of the Rice Thresher

00:29:50.450 - 00:30:13.310

from 2007, and this issue of the Thresher is interesting for a couple of reasons. One, it has a timeline of sorts too, some years before the one that we looked at in the Rice magazine, that shows African Americans in Rice's history, and it lists out some kind of key moments in that story.

00:30:14.000 - 00:30:34.700

And then on the page after that timeline, there's an article with the headline, "Panels commemorate 40th anniversary. Discussions focus on the past, present, and future of blacks at Rice." And if you read the article, it's, it's a panel that was being held in conjunction with a lecture by

00:30:34.700 - 00:30:49.630

Manning Marable on campus that's talked about here on this page, and on the front page as well. But this was a panel that brought together several people, including a couple of members of our task force.

00:30:49.630 - 00:31:12.170

Trustee Teveia Rose Barnes, class of 1975, and also a professor John Boles, class of '65, spoke. Jan West, class of 1973, was on this panel, and some, a history professor, Alex Byrd, Sid Richardson '90, was on this panel too.

00:31:12.740 - 00:31:38.730

And I don't want to get too, too far off track, but I did have a question initially when I saw this headline, the "40th anniversary," in 2007? That gave me a little bit of a pause, because we know, of course, that the first black students arrived in 1965, or maybe depending on how you're counting, even 1964

00:31:39.210 - 00:31:53.310

with Raymond Johnson. So that would mean the 40th anniversary would be 2004 or or 2005, and so I wondered why 2007. Do you, do you have any recollection of that, since you were on the panel, Dr.

00:31:53.310 - 00:32:07.710

Byrd? Oh, you're muted, so I can't hear your answer. Good thing I was muted. No, I have no recollection, Dr. McDaniel, I was just repeating your question.

00:32:08.190 - 00:32:20.460

You're asking me do I have recollection of 2007? I don't remember why, I mean, let's see, so... Are you about to answer the question? Because I'm looking for an answer.

00:32:22.710 - 00:32:43.880

I'll give you a spoiler alert. But, but I think this is kind of this is kind of interesting, is that, in the first, in the first paragraph, it's "commemorating the 40th anniversary of the first black students to enter Rice as undergraduates and earn degrees from the university." Okay, now,

00:32:44.060 - 00:33:05.240

so in other words, the picture that you showed before, Jacqueline McCauley, of course, arrived earlier, but did not complete her degree at the university, and so this is marking the, the entrance of the matriculation of the first students to receive their degrees in the university.

00:33:05.240 - 00:33:23.810

So we could talk about that, but I wanna make sure we get to another document. It does show, just like with this timeline, you know, there's different ways of marking key moments, and there's different ways of commemorating anniversaries, and there's, there's some things that are on this timeline and some things that aren't on this

00:33:23.810 - 00:33:47.540

timeline. I noticed, for example, that there's no mention here of the founding of the Black Student Union on the timeline, even though there is a mention of some, some student rallies, and some student protests about other things, there's not a mention of, of the Black Student Union.

00:33:47.540 - 00:34:12.980

But there was, and this is what brought me back to that photo of the protest, there was a discussion here by Jan West, who was on the panel, of, of the founding of the Black Student Union. And here, at least according to, this is the Thresher's report of, of Jan's comments, so we'd have to, of course, check with Jan to see if it's an accurate

00:34:12.980 - 00:34:34.190

reflection of the panel. But it says that, "Black students during West's time received little support," and that, that's what the newspaper was saying about the panel. "There was no formal advising system, little to no help with job placement or community

00:34:34.190 - 00:35:03.880

networking, and the university initially rejected the proposal for a Black Student Union before relenting after a student protest at a basketball game. Nonetheless, black students still received a quality education, West said." So this is the line, this, this idea that the Black Student Union was, was rejected by the university

00:35:03.880 - 00:35:25.600

until there was a student protest at a basketball game, that sent me back to the Thresher, seeing if I could find anything out about this protest that was held after a basketball game. And a series of of keyword searches in the Thresher eventually took me to this issue of

00:35:25.600 - 00:35:43.840

the Thresher. In this issue of the Thresher, as you can see down here in the, the top of the fold, in the left hand corner, it has that photo that we saw earlier of the student protesters, the "integration with segregation brings about demonstration" sign, and there's just a

00:35:43.840 - 00:36:16.200

single caption: "Black students picketing outside Saturday's basketball game." And now there's no story about this, this protest in the Thresher, but what I noticed is that this photo appeared in the February 17th, 1972 issue of the Thresher. Okay, so if this photo was taken in the spring of 1972, then the metadata that

00:36:16.200 - 00:36:35.740

identified the photo as 1976 couldn't possibly, couldn't possibly be right. That photo must have been even earlier than, than the metadata indicated. So that kind of got me to thinking, Dr. Byrd, about what the significance of that might be.

00:36:35.820 - 00:36:53.850

Obviously, it's just a, it's not that it was an intentional error, I don't think, by any means. Photographs don't always exist in context. We've got the photo here in the Thresher, but clearly the photo existed in the Woodson archive outside of this context.

00:36:53.850 - 00:37:17.160

And so there was probably an effort by archivists at some point to figure out from the, the clues within the photo to see if they could place it in time, and, and it's not like they were far off, just a couple of years off, but, but it does raise some questions for me about, does it change our own story or our own understanding of the

00:37:17.160 - 00:37:42.510

history to think about this protest happening not in 1976, and maybe not even primarily just as a protest for faculty integration, although that was one of the things that was, was on the sign. But if, if Jan West's recollection from 2007 was, was correct, then it was also a protest

00:37:43.230 - 00:38:04.080

for the Black Student Union. It places this photo at the, the origins of the Black Student Union in 1972, when the organization was just getting started and black students were just organizing rather than a protest that they launched a few years after that.

00:38:04.320 - 00:38:29.790

It was something that was, that preceded the formation of the Black Student Union. And then it got me thinking about, well, okay, what else don't I know then about this protest? What might be, what might have been on the minds of the students who are, who are depicted in this particular picture, beyond the, the issue of faculty integration that's

00:38:29.790 - 00:38:45.150

highlighted on the poster in the center? That's where my mind started going, and I'm gonna get to the document that I think took me to some of those answers, but let me pause, Dr. Byrd, and see if you have any reactions to the redating of this photo.

00:38:45.150 - 00:39:15.290

Is that, is that significant in any way? So I was ready to go until you said that you, you suggested that my remarks had to be significant. But one of the, you've opened up, I think one of the things that is so remarkable about corrections to the historical record is that they then inform

00:39:15.290 - 00:39:44.150

other ways of looking at the, at the document. And your dating this in 1972 instead of, for example, 1977, raised for me the question of what evidence exists within the document itself, which, which may also suggest that. And so that's, that's a long way of saying, I was looking really closely at everyone's

00:39:44.150 - 00:40:09.950

hair and wondering the degree to which fashion and and styles of, of the picture may have previous to this also have been calling out for some kind of reinterpretation. These collars are pretty, pretty pointed on some of the, some of the shirts.

00:40:09.950 - 00:40:28.550

So, yeah, that's interesting. What are the internal clues that we could look at? Yeah. Well, separate, separately from going on this little detective mission of chasing down the date of the photo, and I can say that, that there's also been some efforts now

00:40:28.550 - 00:40:51.680

to see if we can identify each of the people in the photograph and get that added to the metadata so that that's preserved in, in the Woodson Research Center, so that we know, who were these courageous students who were picketing outside of a basketball game in, in 1972, before there was a Black Student Union?

00:40:52.670 - 00:41:07.430

I think that's, when we go back to our earlier question about the "founders" and, and significant people in the university's history, it's important to get that documented and get that preserved. Who were these students?

00:41:07.430 - 00:41:28.880

But also what were they, what was on their mind, and what were they asking for with protests like this? And once this, this photograph was placed in 1972, that got me thinking about some, some other documents in the Woodson Research Center in a collection of papers associated

00:41:28.880 - 00:41:50.890

with the Black Student Association, the history of the Black Student Association. And the very first page of this folder, as you can see here, is a letter that's dated March 16th, 1972. 1972. So pop quiz.

00:41:51.790 - 00:42:02.290

If you've been paying attention, before or after the protests outside the basketball game? A little more, about a month after. About a month after.

00:42:02.290 - 00:42:21.010

So you got the protest, February 1972. About a month after that, there's this letter that is addressed to Dr. Norman Hackerman, who was president of the university at the time. And it reads, "Dear Dr.

00:42:21.010 - 00:42:44.200

Hackerman, as chairman of the BSU's Committee on the Black Student Union Center, I would like to point out some of the qualities that the NROTC building has going for it." Now, by the way, there's all of these acronyms and abbreviations here. I don't know if I've ever been at a place with as many acronyms as, as Rice, and you

00:42:44.200 - 00:43:04.120

kind of have to be here a while to learn what all of those acronyms mean, but it's interesting to me that there's already, in this first line, the "BSU." There's an assumption that, that Dr. Hackerman is going to know who the BSU is, because it's abbreviated, but there's also a

00:43:04.120 - 00:43:25.920

reference to committees on the BSU already being formed here in March 1972, and there's another issue that's being raised here, which is about the Black Student Union Center . And there is a suggestion that there's another building on campus that might be well suited for that center.

00:43:25.930 - 00:43:51.760

If we scroll down to the bottom of this, this page, it's signed, "Very truly yours, Curtis Davis, Chairman, BSU Committee on the Black Student Union Center. And this is, this is the kind of coincidence that you don't prepare for, Dr. Byrd, but it just so happens that this morning I learned that the architecture

00:43:51.760 - 00:44:13.520

school here at Rice has recently announced the hiring of four new faculty members this spring, and one of those four faculty members is Curtis Davis, who is, is a, an alum of the university, as we know, and he's pictured here along with the other three new faculty members.

00:44:13.520 - 00:44:30.530

His class is listed, a BA, 1975. So that, that puts him in the time period we're talking about. And, and it explains here a little bit about his career, that Curtis Davis, after this letter we're looking at, went on to become an architect and urban planner.

00:44:31.340 - 00:44:50.120

He served as a project manager for the Emancipation Community Development Partnership in Third Ward. He previously taught at Prairie View A&M and the Boston Architectural College. He also oversaw planning, facility programming, and designer selection phases

00:44:50.120 - 00:45:12.180

for the Smithsonian Institution's new National Museum of African American History and Culture. And he holds a Master of Architecture from Harvard Graduate School of Design, and a Bachelor of Arts in Architecture from Rice University. Impressive career, of course, is all in the future, at the time when we're reading this

00:45:12.180 - 00:45:31.820

letter that he drafted to the president of the university in March 1972. And let me just read a little bit more about this, this letter, where he describes what the BSU is hoping for from a Black Student Union Center. And he lists four bullet points here.

00:45:32.180 - 00:45:45.530

"The only major cost that the school would incur" by using the NROTC building "would be the cost of repairing the roof of the structure. The rest of the building and its heating, cooling, water, and power systems are in excellent condition.

00:45:46.160 - 00:46:06.050

Any exterior or interior renovations will be accomplished by the BSU if the needed tools and supplies are made available." You can kind of see an architectural mind already at work here, a planner of space. And then there's a final line that says that "Professor Anderson Todd, chairman of the

00:46:06.050 - 00:46:23.390

Department of Architecture, supports our plan for the use of the NROTC building and will make the design for the renovation of the building as a project for some student or students in the architecture department." And so that raises some interesting questions for me about Professor Todd.

00:46:24.170 - 00:46:48.330

But what Davis concludes by saying is that "Because of the expansion possibilities of this building and because of the cultural background of Afro-American life that this center will bring to the black student body and the university as a whole, I am confident that your committee will favorably consider this proposal." So I don't know which

00:46:48.330 - 00:47:09.210

committee he's referring to here, but he does seem confident that he'll get a hearing. And underneath this letter, there's a kind of more detailed proposal about the Black Student Union Center, what the Black Student Union wants to see from this building. It will be a center for the activities of the black students.

00:47:09.900 - 00:47:28.470

It's going to have "a library based upon the black experience." It's gonna have offices for the black student union. It's gonna serve as an incentive for the recruitment of more black students. And it will also be a place where, it can be a setting for the instruction of courses on

00:47:28.470 - 00:47:54.120

black culture. So it's a pretty, it's a pretty robust vision for space. And there's even a mention of a game room as optional, but it's clear that, that the main things that the BSU is wanting here are meeting space, space for, for special classes, and a library and an environment for, for black students to gather in.

00:47:54.210 - 00:48:15.300

And following that, there's some, some pages of signatures of students who were asking for this proposal for the BSU center to be supported. And if we scroll down here, we can, we can see some of the names we've already mentioned in this doc talk that we'd recognize, including Jan Faye West from, from Brown

00:48:15.300 - 00:48:32.700

College, who was one of the, the signatories on, on this petition. Regina Tippins, Brown, Brown College. Right, Regina Tippins is there as well. A lot of, a lot of important people in the history of, of the university.

00:48:33.360 - 00:48:49.890

And it's interesting to me that on the one hand, Davis was confident that, that this proposal would be well received by President Hackerman, but there's also signatures. There's, there's a petition. There's a sense that, that some kind of, some kind of display of student support for

00:48:49.890 - 00:49:14.600

this center is needed. So thinking back again to, to the dates and the timing of the protest, one of the things that these documents to me are doing is helping paint a fuller picture of what the students at that basketball game protest were working for, were dreaming of, were

00:49:14.600 - 00:49:36.560

demanding of the university in the spring of 1972. And I think we could say if we go back to the metadata that faculty integration was one of those things, but it was clearly not the only thing, and one of the things that's not on a poster in that picture, but is here in the archive, was an interest in space.

00:49:37.100 - 00:50:03.290

And that kind of connects to our discussion of the announcement this week. They were interested in the use of space and the importance of having space on campus where black students could, could gather and, and, and build a vibrant cultural center for black students and for the university as a whole.

00:50:03.740 - 00:50:29.420

Now, we only have a few minutes left, but I do want to, to scoot ahead here a little bit to a final document, which is a handwritten note, and it's dated April 12th, 1972. Pop quiz time again for our timeline. So April 12th, 1972, before or after the protest?

00:50:31.940 - 00:50:43.500

So that's after the protest, but is it before the letter to Hackerman? Nope, nope, nope, nope. About a month after that... When was the letter to Hackerman? I thought that was the 16th.

00:50:43.520 - 00:50:52.970

That was March. That was March. Oh, I'm sorry. I got, I was like, is this, I thought it was going to be some type of real drama where decisions are made even before...

00:50:54.200 - 00:51:12.260

Before the letter. No, there was, there was clearly, we're getting a picture of how things were unfolding. Now, there's there's the protest in February. Then there's the letter addressed to President Hackerman from Curtis Davis. And now we're a month later, and this handwritten note is from the desk of F.A.

00:51:12.290 - 00:51:28.160

Wierum, that says here on the letterhead at the top. And I've run across a lot of letterhead like this in the Woodson, because of course, this is the days before email. Nowadays you get a NetID and an email address, but in those days, you would get a,

00:51:28.730 - 00:51:46.730

a notepad with the seal of the university at the top and, and your name on it, "from the desk of," of whoever you were, so that you could pass memos around and send notes to other people in the administration. And F.A. Wierum, I should just pause to say, I'd have to give a little metadata here about

00:51:46.730 - 00:52:08.480

who he was, because it doesn't say it in the note itself, but at the time he was the Dean of Students, which was, is a position that doesn't exist anymore. It's been absorbed into the, the Dean of Undergraduate Students, but at that time, there was a Dean of Undergraduate Affairs and also a Dean of Students who reported to

00:52:08.480 - 00:52:23.870

her, and that was, was F.A. Wierum. And in this handwritten note, we learn a little bit more about these conversations about the, the Black Student Union Center. And I'm gonna do my best here to, to transcribe on the fly this handwriting in

00:52:23.870 - 00:52:46.400

black ink. Wierum says, "Talked with Curtis Davis, new president of the Black Students Union, for about one and a half hours, about the BSU Center. I told him that I did not think his arguments justified the university setting

00:52:46.400 - 00:53:08.610

aside a facility for their use. I also told him Navy Building was no good and was going to be torn down. He would not accept the answer, but wanted to discuss it and try to convince me of their real need." Let me just pause there.

00:53:08.630 - 00:53:27.220

There's more to the note, but there's, there's a lot just in those, in those few lines. What strikes you about, about those lines, Dr. Byrd? Well, I do, I have an emotional response to the last line that you read

00:53:28.660 - 00:53:58.930

about what it meant for black students in the early 1970s to be heard. And you have two interesting examples that you focused on, that, that Mr. Davis's interaction with Professor Todd in the School of Architecture provides one instance of how that listening and hearing could unfold about black need at the

00:53:58.930 - 00:54:23.060

university. And this one, at least at this point in the memo, presents a different kind of example. I think that's right, and it kind of raises the question then, why, why does Wierum not think that these arguments for the setting aside of space and a building on campus for

00:54:23.060 - 00:54:49.460

black students, why he's not convinced, even though Davis is clearly insistent on this point and tries to convince him for a significant amount of time, one and a half hours. And that's what he goes on to explain in the memo. "I suspect," Wierum says, "that what they want is a combination of non-residential

00:54:49.460 - 00:55:06.830

college and black studies department. I don't believe they are going to be interested in being just a student group on campus. They are aiming for more and better. They want a building so they can have a, quote, 'black environment.' This would lead

00:55:06.830 - 00:55:24.080

to separation, in my opinion, and would give them a power status not enjoyed by any other student group except the colleges. They are already talking about offering, quote, 'their own courses' in black studies like a department or college.

00:55:24.110 - 00:55:47.230

They are now planning to offer a course in, quote, 'black humanities' through the auspices of Hanszen College. I am not convinced that the Black Students Union should be categorized or treated differently than other student groups organized for a common interest." So there we

00:55:47.230 - 00:56:08.260

get a little bit more about Wierum's thinking, but this does raise a lot more questions for me that maybe we'll have to, to consider in future doc talks. You know, what, what, what is it that makes Wierum suspect these things? Is this just suspicion without any foundation?

00:56:11.530 - 00:56:30.910

Another question it raises is, why is he so concerned about the idea of black studies or courses in, in black studies? What's going on at Hanszen College, I mean, is another question that this raises for me, "black humanities," and did that course occur, or what happened there?

00:56:30.940 - 00:56:50.890

What were the plans and why was it, was it happening in Hanszen College? But, you know, I kind of also have a response that's maybe more of a gut than, than, than an intellectual response here, which is to think about, and it would be interesting to perhaps talk with him about, how Mr.

00:56:50.890 - 00:57:14.980

Davis experienced or remembered this, this conversation. And what I think I can read between the lines here is a lot of frustration on both sides. Frustration from, from Mr. Davis that not being heard and understood and, and not accepting the answer that he's,

00:57:15.010 - 00:57:44.140

that he's getting, that this Black Student Union Center can't be built, that there's a real need for it. And then frustration from Dean Wierum that, that somehow there's, there's some danger or risk or threat that this group might, even though it's, it's picketing just to form, will have a "power status" on, on campus that would distinguish

00:57:44.140 - 00:58:00.970

it or separate it or make it different from other student groups on campus. So there's a lot of questions that this memo raises for me for further research, but I'll end just by showing you, Dr. Byrd, that on our timeline that we're kind of constructing here, this is April 12th,

00:58:02.080 - 00:58:34.470

1972, when the meeting between Wierum and Curtis Davis occurs, and if we go back to the Thresher on April 13th, the very next day of 1972, you can see here on the second page of the Thresher, the headline, "Davis urges Black Student Center." And you can see reprinted here a version of the proposal that we saw in

00:58:34.470 - 00:59:06.140

typescript in the folder of why the Black Student Union is calling for this space on campus, a center for activities of black students, and it's signed, "Curtis Davis, Chairman, BSU, Will Rice College, 1975." So it's clear that the, the, the work and the struggle to, to create such a center continued even after that meeting with, with

00:59:06.140 - 00:59:30.570

Dean Wierum. I see that our audience is helping us, as they always do, with trying to provide some more metadata to, to some of these documents that we've talked about today. I'm hoping that we can, can identify some, some more of the names associated with the

00:59:30.570 - 00:59:54.150

photograph and, and these early efforts by black students on campus to, to, to claim space, and to, and to express their, their needs and, and their willingness to contribute to the university as a whole in these meetings with administrators in the early 1970s.

00:59:56.180 - 01:00:12.170

We wanna thank all of you in the audience for being with us here again today. I hope that you've enjoyed the conversation and that you'll join us again. We're here every Friday at noon, and we look forward to seeing you at our next doc talk. Dr. Byrd, thanks.

01:00:12.260 - 01:00:26.040

Hey, great, great Friday, another great Friday. And just tremendous work in the chat. Thank you to our audience. Thanks, everyone. Have a great weekend.