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Day is Tuesday, May 24th, 2022. Um My name is Grace Stewart an intern at the Houston Jewish History Archive at Rice University and I'm here with rabbi Pam Silk. Hello. Hi. Today, I'm happy to be here with you. Grace. Good. I'm happy to have you. Ok.

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So let's just start right off the bat. Um So we talked a little bit before about um your undergrad degree in biology. Is that right? Yes. Um And so I do wanna talk a little bit about um your switch from science to um clergy. Yeah. So

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I went to the University of Michigan and I really, I've been pre-med, you know, even before starting college, I knew that I wanted to be a doctor. And so when I went to Michigan really bulked up on science classes and got my biology degree and it

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was towards the end of my um time at Michigan that I started working in the hospital, I was applying to medical school programs and I was working at the University of Michigan Hospital in Ann Arbor, the Neuromuscular Clinic. And I would say it was a combination

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of the difficulty getting into medical school and how impersonal that process felt, um, and challenging that process felt. And um recognizing that as medicine was changing towards managed care, that really the role in the life of the physician was not going to align with what I

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had always hoped and dreamed and envisioned that it would be. So, um, you know, doing some really hard thinking at the time, my stepmother, blessed memory had said, you know, have you ever considered becoming a rabbi? And I laughed out loud. I mean, it was like,

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no, I had never considered that. It seemed a little bit ridiculous. But, you know, the more I thought about it, you know, she had said, like, you've always had, you know, a really, um active sort of faith and spiritual and religious life within your congregation. It's

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always meant a lot to you. Um, you know, why don't you, why don't you consider it? I think you'd be really good at that. And so I did some, um, research into Hebrew Union College and what it would look like to go to a rabbinical school.

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And, um, the process was a much more personalized process and applied. I spent actually an extra year in Ann Arbor, kind of bulking up on um, some of my Hebrew because I knew I would have to pass a certain level of Hebrew to get into the

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program and matriculate into the program and, you know, changing directions really gave myself that year I stayed enrolled on campus. I took some more classes and I was a resident director and, and just took the time to, to really prepare for rabbinical school. And then was

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it applied and accepted to the program and then left for Israel the following spring? Great. Ok. Um, well, that brings us perfectly into, um, my next kind of line of questioning is I want to hear about Israel. Um I wanna hear about how it is to

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be a rabbinical student there. Um The, the different experiences you had, um how that shaped your future. Um So let's talk about your time in Israel for, for a couple of minutes. Yeah. So I like to say that I'm like, I should be like the poster

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child for the year in Israel program because I really went to Israel kicking and screaming. It wasn't something that I wanted to do. I had never been to Israel before. Uh growing up in my reform congregation, the most that I knew about Israel was how to

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spell Israel. Um We really didn't learn a whole lot about Israel. I remember the teacher writing. Israel is real on the board. It's sort of always cementing as somebody who's not a great speller that at least cemented the spelling. So I learned that in my religious

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school. Uh But we didn't talk a whole lot about Israel. We had at one point my, my grandparents were gonna take the family on a trip to Israel but that got canceled sort of last minute. So I had never been before and the idea of being

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far away from family and friends knowing I wasn't gonna have the opportunity to travel back at all during the year. Um, my Hebrew was ok. Certainly not super comfortable with Hebrew and it just felt daunting and it felt daunting. How was I gonna pay to live

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in Israel and be going to school because obviously you can't work um at that point. So, um it was overwhelming but it was great that I went because it did cultivate a love for Israel and living in a place for a year forces you to learn

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the language or at least acquire enough of the language to pay your bills or call the gas company when your natural gas balloon runs out and you need it refilled or to solve problems of life that um that are really different than just sort of visiting

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a place. And being a student at HUC in Israel was great because they have a really thoughtful program that combines not just classroom learning and intro to what you're gonna be doing in rabbinical school and good Judaic learning and text learning, but also the opportunity to

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go to you to see the land and to learn about it and developing really nice relationships with classmates. So without question, I think it is a masterful way for the rabbinical school program at huc to begin by requiring everyone to be there together because it does

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powerfully cultivate a, an understanding um really a deep education and most importantly, a passion um for Israel and the people of Israel in the land. OK. OK. Interesting. So you say you would say that it's notable that um it's the first year instead of the last

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or in the middle. Yes. So huc each, I know each of the um seminaries really does it their own way. But he bring in college has it as the first year. And I think from my experience, it's a really smart way to do it. It helps

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your, the class form a real sense of cohesive and helps with language acquisition. And I think prepares you um you know, well to then sort of jump into the bulk of the learning the next four years. OK. OK. Um OK. And then you came back to

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Cincinnati. Yes. For HUC. OK. So tell me about that. Um Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So I came back stateside and I had preferenced going to the Cincinnati campus. Um being growing up in the Detroit area, it was close enough to home that I would be able

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to go back, you know, for and within a four hour drive. So it's pretty accessible. I also knew cost of living was affordable. Um My brother and his family were living in Cincinnati so it really made it for me a no brainer and um I love

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that they have, they actually have a physical campus that people could be at and, and so I jumped into learning and it was really different. So, the learning on campus in Cincinnati was vastly different than my experience in Israel. Um I find it, found it much

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more academically rigorous and obviously the emphasis on Hebrew language as a, learning a language and speaking a language at that point isn't nearly the same um as when you're living in Israel. Absolutely. Um So what would just an, an average day look like for you as

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a rabbinical student at HUC um how many hours of classes would you go to um things like that? So most days I would have three or four different classes. Um in the middle of the day, there was um a chapel service that a lot of students

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I often would attend with my classmates. We would often eat lunch together, but they were morning classes and afternoon classes and it would be everything from, you know, history to Jewish text to education, to sort of practicum style class classes. And we were for the most

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part there. And then on Fridays were often a day that we would be able to travel to our student pulpit. So there wouldn't be classes typically on Fridays and then whether you had a monthly pulpit or would go twice a month to your pulpit. Um I

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was fortunate to have pulpits. Um, all over the years that I was in Cincinnati, which was the work that I love to do the most when I was a student and um being able to do that travel. So I always traveled to congregations where I would

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fly out on Friday and come back on Sunday afternoon. I was in Pine Bluff, Arkansas, um, which was my first monthly congregation. And then I was at a biweekly so twice a month in Sumter, South Carolina, which I really loved. And then after that, I was

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a rabbinic intern in Kansas City at congregation be Huda, um which was also a wonderful experience. So I loved being able to, to have that experiential learning as partnership and really is a, a complement to what I was doing in the classroom. In addition, students in

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Cincinnati were expected to teach in religious schools. So I did some Hebrew school teaching and religious school teaching at um one of the local congregations. Um were those all of those congregations reform congregations? Um I think so. I think there might have been one congregation that

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wasn't reform where students could teach or do some tutoring. But for the most part, yes, they were reform congregations. Ok, great. That's great that um you have the opportunity then to um see different congregations across the US instead of just in uh Cincinnati and, and um

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that area. Well, what's nice about what's nice about the work as a student pulpit, especially from the Cincinnati campus is that we, the congregations would pay to have students come out to serve them because they couldn't afford to have their own rabbis and whether the congregations

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were really, really tiny or old and they didn't have really a vibrant membership any longer. It was a way for them to really stay connected to Judaism to have clergy life, you know, trained, trained students coming in to lead worship or to be meeting with them

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for pastoral situations due to a little bit of life cycle where it was appropriate. And so it really helped to keep them connected at a time where otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford to have a rabbi. And then if they needed, when the student couldn't

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be there, there might be a rabbi from a couple hours away or somewhere nearby. Um But I also know that these congregations felt passionately about helping to um sh shape and train the next generation of rabbis. It was something that they were really proud of that

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some of those congregations were student puppets for many, many, many, many years. And, you know, helped to really launch many reform rabbis, especially who had gone to school in Cincinnati into the rabine in the United States to then serve congregation. So they have a, a really

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nice legacy and part of the history of what it looks like in the reform movement in this country and, and training those clergy. OK. OK. Um So I imagine then that, that program um will stop with the closing of the seminary in Cincinnati. Um I'm not,

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I'm not sure. I mean, I, I know for sure that rabbinical students will always have the opportunity for student pulpits. Um whether those same student pulpits in that region of the country will continue to be served. Um I'm not sure how that will be handled but

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I, I know whether it's internships or student pulpits, there's always gonna be more congregations in the country than there are people to be able to help them serve and take care of them, or that will be able to afford, you know, full time or even, you

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know, substantial enough part time to support um an ordained clergy person. So I imagine he re Union College will be in conversations with a lot of those communities about how to go forward. So it'll probably look different, but I hope that it'll still exist in some

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format. It was really hugely important part of my formation and my learning as a rabbi to have those pulpit experiences. And I love that. I mean, it was, it, those were the experiences in rabbinical school, especially once I started on the Cincinnati campus. Um that really

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enriched my, my time as a student and that helped to really shape and craft me into the congregational rabbi that I am more so I think, than the classroom work, the classroom work was really important and I found it an important mechanism to really be honing

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my craft as to how to find resources and use resources. But it, when it came to the work of what does it mean to be serving a congregation? It was um by far those experiences, those congregations where I was their rabbi, you know, they didn't have

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other rabbis coming in and to develop relationships that I still have and still in touch with some of those people today. Good, good. Um, do you have any, um, stories from that time, any particular congregations that um, are meaningful to you? Anything you'd like to share

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for the historical record. So, like I said, my first congregation was in Pine Bluff, Arkansas and I just, um, have such a lovely place in my heart for them. And they were so kind and loving. I was a second year student. I really did not have

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any experience and they were supportive and kind and complimentary about the work that I did with them. I'll never forget. So the first time I went to their congregation, I fly into Little Rock and I have to then drive to Pine Bluff. So you went to

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car and you drive in and I mean, you don't know where you're going, but you've never done this before. I don't even know at that point if I had ever like rented a car by myself. So you go in and I went to the, um, president's

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house and I had not spent a lot of time in the South. So getting used to that a little bit and that things were so different. I grew up in a large reform congregation was probably at the time, like 15 100 families. And here's this teeny

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tiny little synagogue that has, you know, one little building. And um I remember the president takes me and gives me the tour of the building and it's um obviously beloved. The build building is beloved by the congregation, but it's a very small and simple building that

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they've, you know, cared for lovingly, but its quite outdated. And um he gives me a tour and shows me there's not much to it and then she takes me into the sanctuary and, you know, this is the tourist scroll and um it was right before the

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high holidays. So I was gonna roll the tourist scroll to the place where I was gonna be chanting from for the service the next day. And I remember taking the tourist scroll out of the R and opening it up and thinking like I have no idea

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where I am in this tourist scroll. Like I have no idea because of the tour, of course, have headers or footers or page numbers or scroll, page numbers, right? There's no indicator of really where you are. And if you're Hebrew, my Hebrew was ok, but it

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certainly wasn't great and I just wasn't facile with that I hadn't done it before. So, really figuring out where I was and just, I remember how patient he was and I sort of looked at him and he's like, I don't know what I'm doing, rabbi. So,

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as long as it takes, you just take it, it'll be fine and just being so reassuring and the love that the members of that congregation had for all of their students. And they would tell stories about their former students that had been there and where they

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were, they really kept track of them and they would host lovely meals in their house. And I also have a special place in my for the congregation in Sumter, South Carolina because it was during that year toward in the spring of that year that my now

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husband had proposed and he had actually flown in with me for that weekend and got to meet the congregation. And um and so when we were after that visit, we went to Charleston and he proposed there. So that really has a special place in my heart

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of feeling that sense of connection um to that place. And I was in Kansas City a really long time. So I was fortunate to not just be a student rabbi, but really an intern and at the time, the congregation was um really understaffed. So really being

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thrown into an internship experience that was so rich at a large congregation and um becoming very close with those families and still being in touch with some of them. So really all of those were such powerful formative experiences. Absolutely. That um that sounds wonderful. Um And

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now that we're talking about happy memories and good stories, I also wanted to ask about um any influential or, or positive memories of specific teachers at HUC that you wanted to highlight during this time. Yeah. So, you know, I, I love the practical learning most of

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all. So, um rabbi Ree Elpers who taught us a lot about um sort of the beginning workings of pastoral care and chaplaincy is always somebody who I, I thought modeled great skills of listening and compassion and inspired me to um you know, continue to really dive

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deep into that learning. That was great. Um Doctor Shami was a wonderful text teacher. Um I took a class um on the Koran um with him. That was just fascinating. And when I think back to, you know, my, my years at the college, both of them,

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they were just outstanding teachers and compassionate people. Um And so I was really happy to have those learning experiences. Wonderful. Ok. So, um I understand that you've been um serving in congregations across the United States. Now, how do you end up in Houston of all places?

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How did that happen? Yeah. So towards um towards the end of my fifth year, I entered the placement process and interviewed for a number of large congregations. I knew I wanted to go to into a large congregation. And um I liked the idea of working with

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a large rabbinic or at least clergy team because I find myself, somebody who works best with others plays nicely with others and likes to play with others and in terms of generating creative ideas and implementation and learning. So I knew I wanted to be at a

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larger congregation, so would at least have a senior colleague, maybe another assistant or associate colleague with me. And um here at Emanuel, this is my first job out of school. So um this was the first congregation where I interviewed and the congregation was generous to invite

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my husband to come down and see the congregation in Houston. So we flew down together and I'll never forget. So members of the congregation took Jeff golfing during the day and I had meetings and um we met back up at the hotel. It was the Zaza

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Hotel or excuse me. Now, the Zaza, it was the Warwick Hotel and it was March, it was pouring time, so beautiful, perfect um spring weather in Houston, the sun was shining. It was probably like in the seventies, the wind blowing, all the azaleas were in blue.

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I'm thinking it's just so beautiful here. Um Because of course, the temple and that hotel are in the museum district area right by the park and it's just a beautiful, beautiful part of Houston and get back to the hotel that night. And I said to Jeff,

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what if they're, what if they're all like this? Like, what if they're all just so warm and so welcoming and taking good care of you and stimulating and asking good questions and eager. They felt really eager to meet me. It just feels great. What if all

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the congregations where we interview it like this? And I had four interviews coming up and, um, the next place that we then interviewed, I said, you know what, I guess we're not gonna have that problem. And then Emanuel really did stand out as um just being

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a place eager to be part of um Jewish history in terms of bringing along sort of the next generation of rabbis. And um rabbi Roy Walter, of course, was the senior rabbi when I was hired on here and was just as gracious as they could come

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to welcoming my husband and welcoming me and help him to give me lots of good broad congregational experience. And at that time, there were a couple other rabbis on the team. And so really, it was a cantor, just a full complement of clergy staff and professional

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staff to, to learn the ropes, right, to learn for sure the rabbinic ropes. But also, um you know what it, what it meant to be in a congregational setting, in a large congregational setting and how to look at programming in a unique way. I learned from

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my rig her and um to be in, you know, position of being able to help lead worship services and connecting to teachers and students in our preschool and our religious school. So, um, like I said, when we do the interview process, we learned quickly that it's

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not all like this and we felt super fortunate that this is where we've landed and been able to stay all these years. Absolutely. And it's been what, 1919 years? Ok. Yeah, almost 20. So, yeah. Wow. Um So I imagine then that you have seen um some

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change in development, not only in um Emmanuel, but also in the Houston Jewish community as a whole. Um And I was wondering um what you might have to say about that as far as um change over the past couple of decades. Well, you know, certainly nothing

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stays the same. That's just the nature of um both the scientific world. But I think also the world that, you know, the experiential world. And um one of the things that has always impressed me about Houston is there's a tremendous sort of respect and provo for

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its clergy. Um whether um whether there are Jews who are members of my congregation or another congregation, there is this general respect for clergy. I was fortunate to be invited on the Jewish Federation's mission to Israel a number of years ago. And that really helped me

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meet people from outside of Emmanuel. And then I did some teaching in the Melton program, I was on the Federation board. So that sort of helped me get to know and learn, put my finger on the pulse of the Houston Jewish community beyond Emanuel. So whether

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it was about um religious observance or practice and to just really get to know more people and become rooted into the community in a large way. And um the biggest change I think I've seen, um one has to do with community funding that I've seen happen

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really in the past 19 years is um that each organization now does more of its own funding and fundraising in a stronger way than had happened 20 years ago, that before the federation was really quarterbacking a lot of that. And then little by little each organization,

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whether it was Jewish Family Service or the congregations or seven acres or the JCC that um I don't wanna, I don't wanna say siloing, I mean, a little bit siloing and then now trying to branch back out to community wide. But I, I really think in

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terms of fundraising and sustainability, um that model has shifted quite a bit and um the community just seems broader in terms of level of observance, I think more congregations than they were when I came in or even congregations were sort of better, better developed and equipped

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than they were so congregations that were sort of newer on the scene or seemed more at least remote or satellite to me now seem more part, very much part of the fabric of the community. Good, good. OK. Um Yeah. Part of, part of one of the

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um the central questions of this, this archive that I work for is um what it means to be Jewish in a place um Like Houston that people don't normally think of as a place where lots of Jews live, right? Um I remember we talked earlier about

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coastal Judaism and how people associate Jews with um New York or Los Angeles. Um But Houston as I know, and as of course, you know, it has a great Jewish community. Um And, and I'm really, really glad to hear about um your, your role and your

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insights on its development. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that I think part of that has to do with, you know, Houston overall is such a cosmopolitan city, right? And I, I think, I mean, you can't have a, a community and is as large as

00:24:22.770 - 00:24:44.050

Houston and as cosmopolitan and not expect that you would have a vi vibrant Jewish community. So I think people who are not from Houston or familiar with Houston or, or with Texas have a really antiquated vision of what Texas life in general looks like and that

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it's very country or, um you know, sort of old fashioned or, um you know, just a, uh a poor representation of what it is. And so, you know, I think, when you think of Houston and you think of the city and you think of the art

00:25:00.689 - 00:25:15.689

scene and the restaurant scene and the shopping scene and what it is, of course, you would have lots of juice here, right? When you look at the job market in Houston and the industry here, um, I think people fail to see Houston who are, who are

00:25:15.699 - 00:25:36.199

not from Texas or not familiar with it as highly sophisticated um community center, you know, really center of, of life and then Jewish life specifically. So for those of us who are familiar with us like, well, of course, right. It's not, um it's not all rodeo

00:25:36.209 - 00:25:52.770

and it's not all, you know, um you know, dust and, you know, farms and, you know, hay everywhere, of course. But uh I think for, I think it, it goes along with just how people regard and think about Houston in general and that once they see

00:25:52.780 - 00:26:07.020

it for what it is they're like. Oh, ok. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And um I, you know, I was born in Houston. Um I live in Houston now and that's, that's one of the most exciting things about uh working at this archive is that um

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we get to correct some of those stereotypes and um we get to bring, bring spotlight a little bit more on the Jewish community that um it's so awesome here. Um So you mentioned the, the Jewish Federation and I I was wondering if you could just talk

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for, um, a little bit about, um, the Jewish Federation's mission. Um, maybe some people, um, who are involved in that with you. Some of the, uh, you mentioned the, the, um, your experience in Israel with them. Um, so anything else about the Jewish Federation that you'd

00:26:37.569 - 00:26:54.939

like to stay, um, that you'd like to state for the record? Anything? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think the most important role of the Jewish Federation really is to be the great convenor, um you know, of Jewish communal life in Houston. And so certainly um

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raising resources to support that here um in locally and domestically and internationally, especially in Israel is a key, a key important role. Um But I do think that, you know, when somebody moves to town before, you know, which congregation you wanna join or which preschool you

00:27:14.579 - 00:27:31.405

wanna send your child to or what you camps are available. I think having a place like the Jewish Federation that can be kind of this clearing house, this place where all of those resources are available and then people can differentiate based on the specificity of their

00:27:31.415 - 00:27:50.339

needs and style and I think they do a really good job of that. I mean, I think that um more and more helping to lift up community Jewish community organizations um is a powerful tool and resource and job that they have. Yeah. OK. Um Similarly, um

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you're involved with the Houston Rabbinic Association. Um and I wanted to talk a little bit about um how that plays into interdenominational relations uh in the Houston Jewish community and um how the different different rabbis of different movements can, can come together in the, the association.

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Yeah. So, um early in my career at Emanuel rabbi Walter encouraged me to attend Houston Rabbinic um organizations, um whether they are lunches or programs to call the HR a Houston Rabbinic Association. And so I became a regular there and it was a group that was

00:28:28.130 - 00:28:50.135

always welcoming, that did great, great quality programming, whether it was learning together, whether it's practical sort of skills development. So just this year, um recently, the HR A had a session with somebody from Saara helping us to navigate their online li Jewish text resource. Um You

00:28:50.145 - 00:29:09.089

know, we often, sometimes we have meetings about security or um just different things going on in the community. And it's, it's been one of the nicest parts of living in Houston is having those collegial relationships with rabbis from different movements and developing really deep and abiding

00:29:09.099 - 00:29:26.109

friendships to support each other um both professionally and personally. And I don't know that that is something super typical in other communities I've heard because I haven't been a rabbi in other communities in the same way. It's hard for me to know. But I would say

00:29:26.119 - 00:29:43.099

here it's a really rich part of being a member of you know, the rabbinical community team and being able to gather and inspiring each other and laughing together. We had a really nice dinner last week that was purely social in nature where um area Houston rabbis

00:29:43.109 - 00:29:57.939

and their spouses were invited to have a really lovely meal and there was some entertainment. So I would say some really nice friendships have grown out of that and it is um has added a lot to my life and my happiness and being part of this

00:29:57.949 - 00:30:18.449

community. Good, good. Um OK, great. Um I the next um kind of topic on my list is to talk about Memorial Herman and the Clinical Pastoral Education Program. Um So if you could just um explain uh the ways in which you're associated with Memorial Herman and

00:30:18.459 - 00:30:40.189

kind of give us some context there. Yeah, absolutely. So, 10 or 12 years ago, um I was invited to be a member of the Professional Advisory Group for Memorial Herman Hospital's C PE program and C PE is Clinical Pastoral Education. It's the learning program that individuals

00:30:40.199 - 00:30:59.650

who want to become chaplains go through um to get their um their accreditation to do so. And it's a rigorous program that includes both didactic and clinical work. And students of all faiths join in that program together. And I was brought into that group to help

00:30:59.660 - 00:31:23.160

be a community member. So the professional advisory group helps to work with the faculty of the program to make sure that they are um achieving all the criteria for accreditation and maintaining their accreditation and to be, you know, professional lenses outside of the organization to, to

00:31:23.170 - 00:31:37.829

help, you know, guide and be a resource, whether it's for students doing an exit interview when they're done with the program to interview residents as they're applying to work with faculty, to help augment the learning that you're doing. And so I was, I have always been

00:31:37.839 - 00:31:53.699

really happy to be part of that group. It weaves together my wanting to be in a medical setting um since clinical pastoral education and the C PE program happens in the hospital clinics and um by the bedside. So it really brings together my passion for that

00:31:53.709 - 00:32:11.369

kind of setting with pastoral work and getting to work with a great group of professionals out of the hospital. And so I've recently become the chair of that group, which is really exciting and the faculty has um has sort of been changing over the past several

00:32:11.380 - 00:32:24.719

years. And so there's a new faculty group involved, the faculty had been there for 3040 years. And so now there's a new group of faculty and looking at the diversity of the program and wanting the program especially to meet the needs of all, all individuals from

00:32:24.729 - 00:32:42.750

all different faith backgrounds and ethnicities. So it's something I'm really proud of doing and leading a group of 12 to 14 individuals who are on that committee and working with the faculty and the residents and the interns, um, making sure that their learning objectives are being

00:32:42.760 - 00:32:58.209

met and that the program stays at a very high level. So, um, that's out of all of the different memorial firm and hospitals. They have a med center group and the Southwest Hospital group, but they also have chaplain interns at all the satellite campuses as well.

00:32:58.650 - 00:33:16.089

Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so just from my, um, a personal perspective, um, so one of the, um, careers that I'm thinking about at this young stage of life that I'm in is actually being a hospital chaplain. Um And so, um, from my own bias, I

00:33:16.099 - 00:33:31.729

would like to know if you have any, um, if you have any advice, if you were to be able to say anything to people, um, like myself or anyone else who might be listening to this record, um, who might be considering a career in chaplaincy, um

00:33:32.739 - 00:33:49.849

Jewish chaplains or otherwise? What advice would you give them? What, um, issues in the hospital environment would you advise them to be aware of, um, based on your experience in that group? So my experience in the group, uh my, my greatest advice is choose carefully where

00:33:49.859 - 00:34:07.640

you're gonna do your learning, um, major medical centers all over the country offer C pe clinical Pastoral education, right? So I, I had my C PE experience at Royal Oak Hospital in Michigan, which was great. Um, as a student in Cincinnati, I could have stayed and

00:34:07.650 - 00:34:22.689

done it in Cincinnati. There's multiple programs here here in the, in the Houston area. So my first piece of advice would be do your research on where you wanna go and learn. Um You wanna make sure that you're in a richly diverse learning environment. So not

00:34:22.699 - 00:34:37.789

just the community because the patients are gonna be diverse, right? So if you're in a community that is um ethnically rich and diverse, you're gonna have just a broader experience which is gonna really augment your learning, but you wanna make sure that your student group is

00:34:37.799 - 00:34:54.218

diverse because a lot of C pe is about the inner personal group relations. So it's a lot of peer feedback and a lot of time with your peer group. And so you wanna be in a place where not everyone looks you or has your same background

00:34:54.229 - 00:35:07.839

because that uni dimensional isn't gonna really prepare you well for the rigors of chaplaincy work. So, number one, you want to make sure to be in a culturally rich learning environment, even if that means that you're gonna have to move somewhere else to be part of

00:35:07.849 - 00:35:22.129

the program that's totally fine. Um You wanna do a little bit of homework on the faculty and what their approach is? So um is the faculty diverse, right? Are they walking the walk or do all the faculty members sort of look the same and have the

00:35:22.139 - 00:35:40.600

same religious and cultural background. And I would say you wanna look at um where those teachers have taught before or where they're coming from. So, is there a good balance of experienced faculty versus newer faculty? What are their modalities? Is, is everything in person or is

00:35:40.610 - 00:35:55.709

there the opportunity to do stuff online? And you wanna make sure that you're really plugging into a place that's gonna give you solid and demanding clinical settings. And I say that because you want to develop those muscles, right? Um You're not gonna walk into a gym,

00:35:55.919 - 00:36:12.620

you know, and lift a 50 pound weight. If you have never done that before, you're gonna need to work your way up. And similarly with um being a hospital chaplain that it is weighty work, it's heavy work, it's powerful work and important work. Um But you

00:36:12.629 - 00:36:31.850

want during your training to sort of develop the musculature that will serve you well to be engaging with all of the emotional dynamics and the theological dynamics that happen when you walk into. Um, you know, whether it's uh ac a room that for people waiting to

00:36:31.860 - 00:36:55.479

have surgery or hospital rooms or recovery rooms or waiting rooms with family. So those would be my main suggestions. Ok. Yeah, yeah. But um that's very helpful. Yeah. Um ok, so um let's see to maybe shift a little bit more to the abstract. I wanna talk

00:36:55.489 - 00:37:18.550

about reform and reform Judaism. I think, I think uh some people who who have not um had a lot, have a lot of experience with, with Jews and Judaism don't really understand the difference between reform and the other movements, um especially in the context of Houston.

00:37:18.560 - 00:37:36.659

Um And so I wanted to give you the opportunity to talk about the um development in, in the reform movement over the past maybe 20 years or so. Um Just in general and in Houston specifically, yeah, I think it's a good question because reform Judaism in

00:37:37.070 - 00:37:55.830

2022 is not the same as Reform Judaism, you know, 2040 50 60 100 years ago. Um You know, it's not my parents reform Judaism. It's certainly not my grandparents reform Judaism. I like to tell the story that when my grandmother, um a blessed memory years ago,

00:37:55.840 - 00:38:07.350

I would go back home, visit her in Michigan and she would say I just go to synagogue and I go in the back and I just cry and I said, oh, because it's so beautiful and she says no, because I don't understand a single thing that's

00:38:07.360 - 00:38:25.610

happening there. And so for her reform Judaism was um almost all in services were almost all in English. There was no Hebrew. And um you know, the ritual observance was one that I don't wanna say that it was like going to church, but it certainly was

00:38:25.620 - 00:38:40.090

more church like than um one would see today. And um I think that those sensibilities and the way we pray and the words we use to pray and the prayer book we used to pray and what we wear or don't wear what we pray are all

00:38:40.100 - 00:38:56.719

sensibilities that um can't be turned on or off like a light switch, right? That it's about acclimating to them. And so if you walk into a synagogue and you don't understand the Hebrew or you can't participate, it's very alienating and reform Judaism certainly has had a

00:38:56.729 - 00:39:13.050

swing in the Pel pendulum of observance back towards more tradition and more Hebrew. And I think that's one of the misconceptions that, you know, reform Judaism, my, my sense is that people think it's like diet Judaism or Jewish light, right? That it's like, oh, I'll take

00:39:13.060 - 00:39:29.699

a little of this, I'm not gonna have this, take a little of this, take a little of that. And at its core, that's not the nature of reform Judaism really. At its core, reform Judaism is about intentionally making decisions after learning and engaging with text and

00:39:29.709 - 00:39:48.179

tradition about what does it mean to live practice and believe as a Jew. And um you know that I think reform Judaism by its nature is very, is, is much less about practice and more of ideology and is about interpretation and what we believe to be

00:39:48.189 - 00:40:06.129

true about Jewish text and the interpretation of Jewish text and who gets to interpret Jewish text. So for me, um the authenticity of reform Judaism is very much in line with the, the Torah itself and that if we look at the opening verses of the book

00:40:06.139 - 00:40:22.679

of Genesis and we get a picture of the garden and, um, you know, pretty soon after we have God telling Cain and Abel to bring an offering with no instruction as to what that is, right? That just not given like this, what does that mean? What

00:40:22.689 - 00:40:40.429

is an offering? And, you know, one brings sort of like, um, you know, remnants that have fallen from sort of trees, some sort of like broken tree or shrubbery, you know, offering sort of this pile of, um, you know, discarded growth. And one brings the choicest

00:40:40.570 - 00:40:54.219

um, of an animal, we slowly begin to define more and more what that means. And of course, later in Torah, we, we hear a lot about what the offerings are supposed to be so much so that we then get lots of detail. So we like started

00:40:54.229 - 00:41:06.350

in this place, bringing offering, ok, I'm gonna bring this, it looks good to me. So then knowing it, what kind of animal, how old the animal is, what to do with it or with the growth object. And so I think that that is by its nature,

00:41:06.360 - 00:41:23.000

a sense of what it means to be reformed, what it means to change what it means to really develop a sense of what was what's being asked of us. And, and so when I think about reform Judaism I think the nature of Judaism is one that

00:41:23.010 - 00:41:45.979

is constantly changing and evolving to more, I don't know, beautifully powerfully meaningfully meet the needs of our community while very much rooted to the core of, of our tradition. And um I, I like that, I'm part of a liberal, progressive, totally egalitarian movement, right? That doesn't

00:41:45.989 - 00:42:00.899

draw any sort of boundaries on who can, you know, who can, who can become learned, who can become clergy. Um And I believe that that also shouldn't be Willy nilly, right? Like I'm gonna just sign my name on this line and I can do that too,

00:42:00.909 - 00:42:19.719

that there are standards and that there's rigor attached to it. So I don't know if that's answered your question. Um But I do, you know, for me and for my life observance, I find that, you know, 11 who is reformed could be observant as anyone else

00:42:19.729 - 00:42:37.500

if they wish. But that it was much less about observance and much more about ideology, theology and the understanding of um interpretation. Absolutely, yes. Yeah. Not only does that answer my question, but it also leads me to my next question which is um I wanted to

00:42:37.510 - 00:42:58.169

talk about women's ordination, um women's ordination in the reform movement. And I also wanted to hear your opinion about the future of women's organization and whether um do you think more women will continue to seek to be rabbis? Um the different um challenges, opportunities um unique

00:42:58.179 - 00:43:18.060

struggles, unique blessings of, uh, women in, uh, in the clergy. Yeah. So, what's always felt sort of neat to me is that my, my life, sort of, the length of my days is pretty close to even with how long women have been ordained. So, when I

00:43:18.070 - 00:43:28.590

meet people who are, like, I didn't know women could be rabbis. I'm like, well, as long as I've been alive, there have been women that are, have been being ordained. So I think that that's pretty cool. Um, you know, this year as we celebrate, you know,

00:43:28.600 - 00:43:45.719

50 years of women officially in the rabbinate with rabbi Sally cries, I think is really cool. And, um, I absolutely think that women being in the cabinet has enriched the rabine it and has helped to, to shape it, I think for the better, I think we

00:43:45.729 - 00:44:02.330

need men and women doing all things and doing all things in ways that are the same in ways that are different and that it only makes, um, the profession richer and better and gives us opportunities to look at it with a new light. Um, I, I

00:44:02.340 - 00:44:21.389

think that the struggles, um, certainly there's some that are the same but some that are different. So, you know, the idea is, um, women being the ones who, um, who are birthing and having Children typically. And, um, you know what that, what that looks like. And

00:44:21.709 - 00:44:37.239

I know in some families with gender roles that, that means more responsibility naturally falls to, um, you know, a woman in a relationship. And if there's two women, then maybe it's shared differently in that relationship. But, but that demand is real and especially when you're looking

00:44:37.250 - 00:44:55.389

at congregational ribbons, I think, um, it's hard to serve a congregation if you can't be available to the congregation. So I've been really fortunate that I have a, a life partner and, um, you know, really devoted partner in my spouse and my husband Jeff and he's

00:44:55.399 - 00:45:10.189

a school teacher, he's a public school teacher. And so our availability to raise our kids and sort of who can be home when is complimentary. I know that that's not the case for everybody. But I, I do think some of those challenges are harder. I, I

00:45:10.199 - 00:45:31.520

think that um there are times when it feels harder to me to be taken seriously and professionally than some of my male um colleagues. And, you know, when somebody says, oh, I like your hair or I like your dress or um you know what color lipstick

00:45:31.530 - 00:45:44.379

is that like? I, you know, they often don't comment, I think on the looks and appearances of my male colleagues the same way that they do um women. And so I don't know if that's just a way of interacting or not knowing what else to say,

00:45:44.679 - 00:46:02.679

but I want to certainly be held in the same esteem as my male colleagues for the, the skills I bring to the table and whether they're as a teacher or a pastoral care provider or a preacher, um, that those things are, I take really seriously. I,

00:46:02.689 - 00:46:18.709

years ago I was asked to present to a breakfast, a women's professional breakfast group, you know, specifically targeting the question, like, um, can women have it all? And my answer was, I do think that women can have it all, but I don't think they can have

00:46:18.719 - 00:46:39.899

it all at the same time. And so it's a question of prioritizing and recognizing that different stages of life, you know, bring different blessings and different challenges and being patient and being thoughtful and planful, I think um has served me well, has served my family well

00:46:39.909 - 00:46:53.510

and I hope has served the congregation really well. Yeah. Yeah, I also have heard that we can have it all but not, not at the same time. Yeah, it's just you can't like, it's just um and you can't, you know, you can't do everything well at

00:46:53.520 - 00:47:13.649

the same time, it's just, it's not, it's not possible, right? And maintain one's physical health and well being and emotional mental health and well being. Those are just as important, those are all related. And um I, I think that um oftentimes women give a lot away

00:47:13.669 - 00:47:30.719

as um professionals and caregivers and care providers and that don't often leave enough for themselves. And so, you know, that balance, that question of balance is something that I really seek for myself. It's an ongoing searching and an ongoing work in progress. And I think the

00:47:30.729 - 00:47:47.669

best, you know, I also am a good rabbi by trying to model that, that struggle is real and not pretending that it's not. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Um Well, speaking of challenges, um this brings us to my last question I just wanted to ask um

00:47:47.679 - 00:48:07.000

about COVID. Um since this is a historical project, um COVID is arguably the most um important historical context of, of the time that we're living in right now. Um And so we always try to ask people that we talk to um how COVID has affected their

00:48:07.010 - 00:48:28.010

um sense of connectedness to the Jewish community, how um specifically to you how COVID has um has presented challenges um in your pursuits as a rabbi. Um And, and what do you think um how you think those changes will dissipate as COVID hopefully lessens um And

00:48:28.020 - 00:48:53.500

what you think um will stay the same? OK. That's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, COVID has profoundly changed our world and by nature that everything is part of this world has profoundly changed everything. Um It, it has for somebody who thrives on small meaningful conversations

00:48:53.510 - 00:49:10.370

and opportunities for engagement. COVID has really blown that up, right? I mean, the part of my rabbit is that I would say I'm most eager um to engage in each week has been visiting hospital rooms and meeting with individuals for pastoral care and that hasn't been

00:49:10.379 - 00:49:26.139

safe to do in a physical way. And certainly we're fortunate that we have Zoom. But, um, meeting with you over Zoom or having a conversation with somebody who's hurting or aching over Zoom does not check the boxes in the same way. Um, especially when somebody is

00:49:26.149 - 00:49:44.979

not, well, or when somebody is anticipating the loss or having just suffered a loss, it falls very short. And I think um that those that experiencing losses and sadness and um hardship at a time when we couldn't connect has exacerbated the sense of loss, right? So

00:49:44.989 - 00:50:01.235

it's like, it's not bad enough that somebody has lost a loved one as in mourning, but that they lost a loved one during COVID, which meant they couldn't have normative morning rituals or couldn't be surrounded by family and friends for Shiva or didn't feel or couldn't

00:50:01.245 - 00:50:18.389

come into. Some people couldn't come into the temple to say Kish um then complicated the loss on top of it. And then there's like these lasting feelings of abandonment and isolation that are really hard to recover from. So I think the best, the best thing I

00:50:18.399 - 00:50:32.280

know how to do is sort of double down, right? So making more phone calls until we can gather in more normative ways, when we can gather in more normative ways, really encouraging people to do that and leaning into that and making those as accessible as possible.

00:50:32.570 - 00:50:50.770

Um And reminding people that those, those intense emotional journeys um are not time bound, right? So they don't have like a beginning, a middle and an end typically. And so which means if we need to be engaging in those rituals or practices after we certainly can

00:50:50.780 - 00:51:06.139

do that and we should do that for, for what people need. Um You know, the nature of my work, like i it was painful and hard to walk around, feeling afraid, you know, that afraid that the work I was doing at the grave or with a

00:51:06.149 - 00:51:21.260

wedding couple or the baby naming was gonna make me sick or my kids sick or my family sick or that I was gonna God forbid get somebody else sick like that. Um That lens was um super painful and very, and I have a lot of, you

00:51:21.270 - 00:51:37.659

know, residual sadness that of moments missed from doing that. Um You know, I, my hope I would love to say that COVID has really taught us to seize the day and when we could be there, be there and do the best we can. But I, I

00:51:37.669 - 00:51:52.879

don't, I'm not, I'm not sure we're far enough out to, to have that perspective as we continue to have these waves of infection. And you know, how do we emotionally prepare ourselves for? What comes next? You know, how do we last year? We were really hoping

00:51:52.889 - 00:52:09.699

to be in the sanctuary with our whole congregation around us for high holidays and then the summer Delta, Delta and we were not. And that emotional role. I think people get weary from that. And my fear is that people, um, people are just gonna say, like

00:52:09.709 - 00:52:24.350

I'm not, I, I just don't want to set myself up for that. The disappointment feels too great. And so they sort of dial back expectations and things that they're hopeful about because it's, um, it is so hard to be continually disappointed. And I think my message

00:52:24.360 - 00:52:38.229

is, it's, I think it's worth it. Right. I do think it's, I think it's worth our continuing to lean forward and to try and to do what we can and knowing that we do have ultimately the bandwidth and the resilience that if we have to come

00:52:38.239 - 00:52:53.800

back and then go forward again, that that's gonna be ok too, but it's hard. It's um ii I feel like the, the good things that have come out of there, people who are tuning into worship now every week who were never regular attendees on Shabbat and

00:52:53.810 - 00:53:09.600

they now never miss on Shabbat. And I think that's beautiful and wonderful. And I, I wanna see like I, as we, we've made it very comfortable and easy for people to tune in remotely so that they can stay safe and that they um don't feel that

00:53:09.610 - 00:53:23.399

they can, they're gonna miss out, but I think it's become such a comfortable, um and effective way to, to view us whether because now we have words on the screen and the cameras are so much better and the angles are so much better that it's like

00:53:23.409 - 00:53:44.409

you're right here. Like I think, but I think it's a false substitute for real connection and that it doesn't help us deal with the ongoing issues of isolation, loneliness, desolation, fragmentation that are, you know, more present than they've ever been before. So I don't know if

00:53:44.419 - 00:54:01.239

that's a good answer or not. Yeah, I um I couldn't, couldn't say it better myself and, and I um I can relate. Um I come from a Christian community but uh the same issues apply. Um And um I, I see the truth of what you're saying

00:54:01.250 - 00:54:18.149

and, and um all aspects of that. Um OK. Well, Rabbi Pam Silk, um thank you for meeting with me today and um I'm super grateful to have been able to talk with you and to learn some things from you and um to just have this time

00:54:18.159 - 00:54:21.550

together. Thank you. Thank you, Grace. I really appreciate that.