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Okay high today is uh Wednesday june 24th 2020. I am Katie Weber and today I am interviewing Rabbi David Siegel for the Houston jewish history archive. How are you doing today? I'm doing okay. How are you? I'm doing pretty well. Thanks for taking the time to

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talk with me. Thanksgiving is a good excuse to refresh my family history. Good, good as well. Uh well let's start there. Can you tell me a little bit about your family and how your family came to Houston? Yes. So it's um it was on my mom's

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side. My mom was born in Houston but her parents were both born in Poland. Different parts of Poland and we do have somewhere archives on exactly which metals they grew up in. But they came before World War two as Children with their families. And my grandmother

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judy lived in Cambridge massachusetts. My grandfather Eddie called him papa. He came at the age of eight in 1921 and he had a couple of sisters who were already living here in Cleveland. So he stayed with them. He was the youngest by far of uh I

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think it was like six siblings and it was a big family and he was kind of raised by his sisters, his older siblings, his mother died when he was a teenager. His father returned to Poland. I don't have all the details on why or what happened

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with that. But I did think he graduated high school in 1932 in Cleveland. And then and he received a scholarship to go to Harvard but he still couldn't afford it and he instead went to Ohio State in columbus. Um And he had a job teaching bar

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mitzvah classes to put himself through school will support him. That became a theme later on. Um in 1936 he went to Cambridge massachusetts with a college friend, Ohio State friend Harry Rosen, whose wife, Cifra was a cousin of Judith Sheva, who became my grandmother. So Eddie

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and judy met in that trip, but Eddie went back to Ohio to graduate and then he returned to boston area. Following that, what I'm a little less clear on is why they moved to buffalo new york after that that fall, I think it's because he was

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able to find a job teaching hebrew. Honestly it was that Rabbi Adler's variation, I don't have a name for it, but whatever it was at the time in Buffalo and he also at the time decided to apply to veterinary school. The story we tell tells that

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he was, he actually wanted to be a doctor but he just couldn't afford medical school. And so veterinary school seemed to be an option. He applied to texas A and M. And that's what brought them to Texas. We began there in 1937, my grandmother was still

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in Buffalo where she had a job. Um But in the first year of school my grandfather had a car accident. So my grandmother quit her job and moved from Buffalo to College station to help take care of him. And then she moved to Houston after that

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because she couldn't get a job in college station. She taught, this is like a little Wandering through Houston Jewish history. She taught hebrew at a number of places in those years. This is like late 30's at Beth El for Rabbi Blumenthal, which was Crawford and walker

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at the time. And um my grandfather went on the weekends to teach at Beth Israel, which was then on Holman Street. And that was when Rabbi Kahn was there for before he went before he went to the war and before Emanuel started and and hired him.

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Uh and I learned, my grandfather also did conduct services for Hillel at texas A and M. Um so they both were teaching hebrew on the side to like to support themselves and get him through school and all of that. Um my mother was born in 1943

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in Houston and then she went to Belen high School and um went to Sophie Newcomb College of Tulane University. It was definitely a separate women's college at the time graduate in 1965. Um She was visiting a college friend in Norfolk Virginia where she met my dad,

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similar to how her parents met I guess. And they Let's see, I think I married in 1965 I guess soon after she graduated rabbi Cahn did the wedding at the Shamrock Hotel which no longer exists And then they moved to Washington D. C. For three years.

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She got a Master's in audiology from Gallaudet College and then they returned to Houston in 1968, where my dad entered University of Houston Law school and my mom was working as an ideologist at methodist hospital. Um I lived in the Nob Hill apartments which are still

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there on braise would not far from death is real. And then they couple years after that they bought a house in West University, which is where I grew up and they still live in that house. Wonderful. So that's how everyone ended up in Houston. Yes. And

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and stayed after that. And so you were born in Houston, you grew up in Houston in West you, can you tell me, what do you remember about growing up here? I would say I had a nice childhood I other than something of a bubble both geographically

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and otherwise. Um I went to school for preschool, which is at Beth Israel and then I went to ST. John's from Kindergarten through 12th grade, a lifer as we call it. And my sister is seven years older. She also went to ST john, she started in

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first grade. Um One of the reasons I got in for kindergarten is because I had a sibling there at the time. So I got a little bump up for that bumped up the list. Um Sometimes people think it's maybe strange that not just being jewish at

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ST john's, but like, but a rabbi of all things who went to ST john's school of all places. Um, there are actually four rabbis among the alumni of ST john's now interesting trivia and um, I would say it's a, it's a loosely christian school at least

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it was when I was there and we had a weekly chapel service that was in the church next door, It was based on Episcopalian liturgy, but fairly ecumenical. We had our own hymnal that was um, like some of the him, so you could see what was

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white it out to take out the words like christian and jesus and make a little more inclusive, but like we did the Lord's prayer every week and it was just understood that the jewish students and the babies or whoever didn't want to participate in the Lord's

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prayer would just sit politely and quietly while the other students Did the full on, like there was a kneeling rest, they would, they would kneel and recite the prayer, which I now know forward and backward because I heard it every week for like 13 years. Um

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and yeah, I think, I mean, I think I had something to definitely shaped my jewish identity because I was often in the role of teaching others about being jewish in elementary school, I was the kitchen, so I was often in the role of teaching my classmates

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about being jewish because I was, there weren't that many jews in the school and uh, that definitely shaped my huge identity as one who, who cares about it, identify like loves that part of my identity, loves being jewish and, and in a way it kind of

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cultivated a sense of being special because there weren't very many of us and we like made time for it around jewish holidays. I would bring in a book about Hanukkah or passover whatever and we talk about that. So I was included in, I felt included in

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that way or welcomed I guess I would say it that way. Um, even though it was sort of like culturally christian in the same way that America is culturally christian sort of dominant cultural sense the school was to um, but it's not a religious curriculum, right?

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So we didn't have like religious instruction or it's not really affiliated with the church, it's just as on the property next door and we had a partnership with it. But that was, that was sort of the extent of it and what's your relationship like with ST

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john's now as an alumna. Um, I am involved in a few ways, one, I become friendly with the director of spiritual life, which is a new position that did not exist when I was there. I was on the chapel guild, the student group that helped plan

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the weekly chapels and, but now they have a position who, who helps direct that for all lower middle and high school and who um teaches classes on religion in the high school. And he asked me to be on chapel oversight committee which includes some faculty parents

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alums and that's the kind of a group that helps him think through what to include in chapel in a given year. How to make sure it's kind of broad and inclusive and and so that's a role I like to have. And I go in and teach

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in his comparative religion class most semesters to uh well not when we're on lockdown exactly, but when you talk about Judaism, when they get to that point in their in their class and I I love to do that. I love the questions that the students ask

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and it's kind of fun to be back there in a teaching role as well. That's very cool. Um And so you grew up going to school at ST john's? Where was your congregation? Well, you know, you go ahead, sorry. Um Yeah, so I, so right, I

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went to school ST john's and we were very involved in congregation Emmanuel. Um My parents had been married by Rabbi cahn. So they were very connected there. My grandmother, like I said, I talked hebrew multiple places, but ended up kind of landing there for the longer

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term. And the story is that she taught Hebrew tooth Eva Feldman who I'm told is was the first bat mitzvah in Houston. I can't necessarily verify that with historical records, but that's, that's what I've been told and you know, when that would have been approximately, I

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don't, I don't know. Fever is a little older than my parents. So my mom was born in 43. She must have been born in the 30s. She's told me stories about remembering 1948 when, when the state of Israel declared independent and she remembers dancing in the

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driveway with friends like Israeli dancing. Um, we were still friendly with Eva and her family. Um, but I don't know what year that was, but we could find that out. Uh, and so we were very, I went to manual throughout, you know, it was like my

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dad was on various committees and um, I went all the way through high school graduation there and I was an assistant teacher in the sunday school when I was in high school, Mostly for a 2nd grade class. And I also went to Echo Hill Ranch, another

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kind of angle on the jewish jewish upbringing in texas and I was a second generation camper there. My mom had gone as a child in the 40s and 50s. This was a camp started by tom and many freedmen like these Jewish camping pioneers. It was, and

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at the time Jews weren't allowed at other camps. So this was a kind of de facto Jewish camp by the time I went there, there, certainly handful of non jewish kids and it was still sort of jewish by default, but we didn't have a lot of

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jewish content, like the songs we sang every meal, not much in the way of jewish, not much hebrew, but there's a little, little sort of shabbat ish thing we would gesture at on friday night, but then sunday morning was like, we were dressed in all white,

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do the flag raising and then go have barbecue and watermelon and that was like, that was our texas ritual and kinky Friedman was the son of the founders. He lived in a trailer on the camp and smoke cigars and would like play music at camp events

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just hanging out, which was kind of a fun side benefit. He was, he is still a character and was was then as well. Yes, so a very text and experience with a little bit of jewish thrown in for yes, yes. Okay. And so, so you grew

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up at ST john's and Emanuel and Echo Hill Ranch. Um, when did you decide to become a rabbi? How did that come about and take root from all of this? I used to be when I was a kid, People tell me I should think about being

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a rabbi. My joke is that it was because I paid attention in hebrew school and they didn't know what else to tell me and that's partly because I was just always this kind of studious intellectual kid who liked classroom learning and, but I'm not the kind

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of person who always knew I wanted to be a rabbi. That's definitely, I don't have rabbis in my family lineage, although we have hebrew teachers and people who are connected to synagogue and jewish life. And um actually learned later after my grandmother judy had passed away,

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my mom told me that when I was a kid at some point, judy said to my mom, if David wants to be a rabbi, you let him do it. Don't get in his way. Just like, so she must have seen something in me, which is kind

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of a beautiful story when when my mom told me later on, it was really senior year of college that I started thinking about it seriously. And I, no, I wasn't ready to go into anything school wise right after graduation, but I was thinking, do I want

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to go get a PhD? I studied classics and religion and ancient Judaism in particular, and ancient greek philosophy and I really credit the jewish studies department at Princeton where I was that, that inspired me to like take, take jewish intellectual history very seriously. This is the

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first time I had really studied jewish philosophers and jewish texts in a serious way. It just kind of blew up in this whole world of, of questions and um thinkers for me. Um, and so the idea of the idea of being a rabbi was intriguing because

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it was kind of a combination of scholar and community involvement and teaching all kind of wrapped up into one. And that's ultimately what what drew me and still, you know, draws me into it. Um, I didn't meet with Rabbi walter who was my childhood rabbi forever

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at Emmanuel, I met with him I think was winter break of my senior year of college because I was thinking seriously, I want to sit down with him and talk about what it means. I remember waiting in his, the sort of anteroom before his study and

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the door was open and I heard he was on a call, but he motioned me inside and he's finishing a phone call where he's saying sort of firmly to someone I will make this right every way I can please don't blame me for something that I

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didn't cause, but I'm here to fix it. And he hung up the phone and he looked at me and said, do you still want to be a rabbi? And it was, it was an awful situation. It was a bereaved parent who the funeral home had messed

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something up. But of course she was taking it out on the rabbi and that sometimes the role of the rabbi is just just let people be angry at you. But he, he was, you know, my first kind of image of a rabbi because he was the

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one I knew and very respected in the community was community leader, was very involved in interfaith ministries here. So I had that picture in mind. I went to work at the Religious action center after college because I wasn't ready to go right into school and that's

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the reform movements social justice hub in Washington D. C. And there I met two more kind of role models of that kind of expanded my vision of what a rabbi could be. One was Rabbi David Saperstein, who was the director of it. Also a lawyer, strong

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background and church state separation. That's one of his areas of expertise, First amendment, uh but also a whole range of other issues that he would advocate on kind of our man in Washington in a way. And and the other rabbi met was Michael Sydnor. Now blessed

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memory who I worked with on it was called the Commission on Inter Religious Affairs of Reform Judaism kind of cumbersome name. But this was the group that guided the reform movements, interaction with christian denominations. At the time, it's now expanded to muslim and another religious groups,

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but at the time were very focused on jewish christian dialogue and rabbi signature had taught at h you see Hebrew Union College, the L. A. Campus for many years and when I met him he was the chair of jewish Studies and Medieval Studies, I think that's

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the right title, you have to look it up. But um at Notre dame University, which was a fascinating place as a rabbi PhD and he loved it. He just was like just sort of gleeful about being the rabbi at the catholic university and they loved him

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and his wife helped run the holocaust center I think that was her job and you just love teaching catholic students and teach them about medieval church history, medieval jewish history because I had majored in classics. This is another thing that gave him a lot of glee.

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He would sometimes email me in latin, which um my latin had become a bit rusty by that point but it's still fun to engage in that way. But just those two gave me models of what it meant, could mean to be a scholar, rabbi community activist

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in their own way. He was, Michael Singer was deeply devoted to building bridges between jews and christians and particularly jewish catholic dialogue was his um is in his wheelhouse but but more broadly as well And he died unfortunately in his 50s um pancreas cancer, which is

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a big loss for our movement. Um and for me as a mentor but definitely one of my role models and inspirations continues to guide guide me. That's i it's interesting. I feel like this like christian jewish interfaith dialogue keeps coming up again and again. So you

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worked for two years with the religious action center in D. C. And then went to rabbinical school. Yeah so is there my second year there when I was just working on interfaith dialogue. It was a busy year because the passion of the christ came out and

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there was Mhm So the passion of the christ had come out and was causing it was a lot of tension around that between jews and christians because of how it portrayed jews as villains in the in the punishment and death of jesus um and also that

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year john paul the second died, Pope the Pope died and he had been kind of a revelation in terms of the church Israel relationship and church jewish community, so it was, it felt like a big loss to the jewish community that this partner had had passed

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away um and so there was a lot to do in those in that term and then so it was from there that I decided based on you the role models that I met and thinking I'd done about like I said before about some kind of combining

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of scholarship and community activism or involvement and teaching and I decided to apply to HTC and so I went from there to Jerusalem And when your first year in Jerusalem and then four years in New York City at the New York campus and then after that

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when I was ordained, so I met my wife also in Jerusalem, she is a cancer, so we were in school together and we went together to become the rabbi cantor of a small carnation to ask in colorado for seven years um and then we moved here

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to Houston three years ago, 2000 17 June so it is just about exactly three years ago wow! And what brought you back to Houston combination of things. We got to a point in aspen, where it was great. We, we, we loved the situation, we loved being

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there, uh, and we had two Children at that 20.2 young Children and we're certainly feel the distance from family. It's a fairly isolated place, It's expensive and kind of harder to get to. So we're thinking, well, if something comes up in Houston or boston where families

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are maybe new york, where my wife's brother and his wife are, we would look at it seriously. And I was also at a point where I was ready to not be in a pulpit rabbinate role anymore. I mean when I went to school, the pulpit rabbinate

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was not what I envisioned for myself, actually more like what I saw Rabbi Rabbi signal, doing what I'm doing now. And um, so the cantor a position opened up at Emanuel right around when we started thinking about this. And so my wife interviewed for it just

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kind of coincidence that this thing where I grew up and it worked also nicely because my family is still here, my sister and her husband and their two kids. So to have that the cousins around and the family support has been really nice. That was one

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of the factors and to be in a bigger city honestly with the bigger jewish community there was a poll there as well. Um be out of a small town as beautiful and breathtaking a place as Aspen is we'll still visit. We actually had a plan to

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visit over spring break but that's right when the shutdown happened. So we canceled it like a week before we were supposed to go but we'll be back. And um so when we confirmed that my wife was going to be taking this job, I started asking around

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and talking to mentors and people I've met through the rack And by this point, David Saperstein had stepped down from directorship and Rabbi Jonah paisner had to come on board as the director in D. C. And I've known him from some training while I was in

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Rabbinic school and I learned about community organizing through him. And there was this new initiative to launch state projects of the rack where instead of just Washington focused advocacy, we'd be doing grassroots organizing and advocacy at the city and state level in a number of states

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and texas was on the radar. They just didn't have an organizer to do it. And here I came headed to Houston and had the background. So it worked out the timing was really good. I started at that part time a week before hurricane harvey it actually

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and that was very complicated, of course devastating for the Houston based work we were trying to do. I mean, setback whatever other agenda we might have had then and everything was focused on rebuilding and flood relief and flood mitigation. One of the interesting things that did

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in Houston also, was it it kind of forced the synagogues and the jewish institutions to get political when many of them, I think would prefer to avoid politics as as However, however, you might define that, but it turns out when you don't, when you don't have

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a seat at the table where community decisions get made and they're getting made about things that directly affect your functioning and your, the question of whether you're gonna flood again, potentially you realize you need to have a seat at that table. So I think it pushed

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a number of the jewish institutions out of their comfort zone. And um, actually coming out of that, the Federation hired to Government Affairs Director, I think, because initially really just to manage the flood relief portfolio, but because it was kind of an acknowledgment that they didn't

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have a person just cultivating and managing those relationships with city and county officials, which are so vital. Um, so I was also doing work, especially in austin san Antonio Dallas. It then became a big year for the immigration crisis at the border. So I went to

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Mcallen and el paso the congregations, they're doing amazing humanitarian work at the border. That was a big focus for a while. We took a group of about 50 leaders to Austin last legislative session, that was 2,019 In the in March. So a year ago, plus and

00:27:07.130 - 00:27:28.990

lobbied our legislators on the big school finance reform budget. That was like almost $6 billion Texas. And um that was an exciting show. That was our 1st 1st ever statewide lobby day in Austin. Um and more recently, we had a group of rabbis go with a

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group of immigrant rights leaders to the Harris County Commissioners meeting, that's the county that incomes in Houston to testify in favor of the county, creating a fund, a legal defense fund for immigrants in immigration defense, immigration proceedings, separate separate from Criminal Court. It's a whole separate

00:27:48.440 - 00:28:08.290

system and there's no guarantee constitutionally for for legal counsel. So Other counties in Texas have this other counties around the country have the millions of dollars allocated for this, but Houston Harris have nothing. So this is the first vote which did pass 3-2, and we were

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proud to have four rabbis testify alongside two dozen immigrant rights leaders in favor of this fund. It's now in a planning process and we'll come back up for a final vote, which will mean also budget allocation, which is going to be challenging given pandemic and everything

00:28:25.420 - 00:28:42.390

else they're trying to fund, but that should be around mid august, I've been told, so we're gonna see what they need in terms of, you know, rabbinic or other clergy support actually. So that will be our next fight on that front. And we're also working on

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election protection and voter engagement. So that's a big deal right now. In 2020, We actually got about 40 L around the state to do Meetings with election officials in eight and the eight biggest counties in Texas, which encompasses About 54% of the state population, just in

00:29:01.980 - 00:29:18.710

those eight counties. And we met mostly with election administrators, occasionally with the county clerk and first just getting to know them. What are the challenges to having a safe and accessible election given pandemic especially, um and, you know, shut down and social distancing and how do

00:29:18.710 - 00:29:33.940

you even run an election right now on the voting by mail challenges? And there's all kinds of legal cases around that right now. So it's a really complicated fight. We're encouraging our carnations to tell everyone 65 older to vote by mail because they are automatically eligible

00:29:33.950 - 00:29:51.150

and everyone else to vote early and take the strain off Election Day. Those are kind of the basics of it. Um and that may lead us to work on voting reform in the legislative section next year, which would be kind of a natural outgrowth of it.

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And we're in relationship with a big coalition texas, voter protection coalition. We work with the texas civil rights project a lot theirs are their main organizational partner, but it's also legal women voters and A. C. L. U. And another brother advocacy and legal groups all engaged

00:30:09.730 - 00:30:42.090

in um expanding the accessibility of voting to eligible voters put it that way and combating voter suppression as well. Wonderful. So a lot of different projects from education to immigration and voter suppression and voter rights and with different coalitions and organizations. So in a variety of

00:30:42.100 - 00:31:07.210

tactics it sounds like that's a lot of just a lot. Yeah. One of the other things we do is training and coaching for congregations because the grassroots or relational organizing model involves empowering congregational leaders to build a team within the congregation who can then partner with

00:31:07.220 - 00:31:30.340

other organizations in their local community on campaigns towards social change, built around a coalition based model um that involves identifying and training leaders within your congregation and building deeper relationships among them. So it's it's time intensive but it it pays off down the road. Um and

00:31:30.350 - 00:31:52.350

so you work all across texas and you worked in dc and you work with people that work in different states and places. Do you think you could speak a little too, how you feel that texas is unique in doing organizing work or especially faith based organizing

00:31:52.350 - 00:32:10.540

work than these other places? Yeah, there there are some differences. I mean California is our is one it was our original state project in this work. And of course it's you know it's like it's a progressive majority state, so that right away is a different dynamic.

00:32:12.030 - 00:32:30.610

I think another difference Texans certainly think of themselves as more politically diverse. The jewish Texans I'm talking about in our congregations here, we think of ourselves as more politically diverse. And it it probably is true demographically just based on the numbers. Um and so I hear

00:32:30.610 - 00:32:45.560

that from rabbis a lot, they want to be cautious about what they say in a sermon or how far in front of an issue they get given that they might get pushed back from certain corners politically. And so that's always but that's a dynamic everywhere, to

00:32:45.560 - 00:33:03.930

be honest. And so we're always thinking about how you engage that thoughtfully and and in a way that doesn't push people out just because they have a different point of view. So that's that's an interesting challenge that we're always working on. And I think another difference

00:33:03.930 - 00:33:21.920

though is that we are a small percentage of the texas population as jews and it makes all the more urgent that we do our work in coalition because we don't have that much power to make change by ourselves. It's also a very strong evangelical christian state.

00:33:21.930 - 00:33:39.770

So that community is very strong. I mean, you see it, I think the highest profile person who kind of gives voice to that of his Lieutenant Governor dan Patrick who's very linked into that, that demographic, that sort of strand of Christianity and so we're always contending

00:33:39.770 - 00:33:55.150

with that and there's there's fault lines around support for Israel, which in a certain sense feel stronger among even developed provisions with the particular vision of what Israel should be. And then on the progressive side, I mean, you see it right now in terms of the

00:33:56.990 - 00:34:14.980

the Black Lives Matter protests where sometimes the Israel stuff gets brought up in the background or in the foreground depending on who you are. Yeah, the previous versions of that platform of some of those groups has had very critical Israel language, so some jews don't want

00:34:14.980 - 00:34:30.030

to talk to them or get involved with them that that has been removed since three or four years ago as I understand it. Um but I think what it really speaks to is the lack of real relationship between the jewish and black community, not to mention

00:34:30.030 - 00:34:48.750

the lack of awareness that there are issues of color within our community, but who also get marginalized. So there it's it's very complex and there's a lot of tension in a lot of different directions um that's not necessarily unique to texas. Um but it is something

00:34:48.750 - 00:35:03.790

we're seeing here. I also feel like there's different dynamics just, but just city to city in texas Houston feels has a little more of a don't rock the boat by it, even though it's it's a very diverse big city, you have a democratic mayor and county

00:35:03.790 - 00:35:24.840

leadership uh and it's very pro business and people don't like to necessarily bring up contentious issues. That's my experience, you can certainly disagree and find people who disagree, whereas in Austin I think it's partly Austin it's just a more outspoken kind of left leaning city. So

00:35:24.840 - 00:35:41.550

you get more of that from the carnations too. And those are the elk contrast those a lot. And then in san Antonio, it's a different dynamic there too. And I think Mcallen is similar where the creation has a very high percentage of jews of hispanic descent

00:35:41.560 - 00:35:55.590

or latino descent and that just creates its own set of dynamics, some of whom have jewish ancestry, some of whom don't, maybe they're married to a jewish person, they converted, whatever. However they found their way in uh to my friend who's a rabbi in san Antonio

00:35:55.600 - 00:36:19.720

does a lot of conversions and just fascinating dynamic. People are drawn to Judaism that's wonderful. It's a beautiful thing and they're bringing them in and I think they have their own kind of everything. I kind of has red lines that the senate doesn't want like certain

00:36:19.730 - 00:36:32.610

issues, they don't want to talk about. The rabbi has their own red lines about what issues they will or will not address publicly. Um and then sometimes the dynamic of, I'm not gonna give a sermon about that, but let's work on that in this other way

00:36:32.610 - 00:36:46.300

and that's actually something I encourage a lot, like a sermon is not the only way to and sometimes not the best way to make an impact on an issue, especially if it just gets pushed back. And it's really like the relationship building is showing up at

00:36:46.300 - 00:37:07.030

meetings, the other kinds of strategy that is more impactful then whether you give a sermon or not. So that's a lot of the, that's my own learning curve and also the kind of coaching I do with rabbis and while we're here, what kind? So obviously you

00:37:07.030 - 00:37:28.330

work with immigration, what other kinds of racial justice work do you do with the rack and have either you or congregations had any sort of changes since the murder of George Floyd and the ensuing protests that are bringing a lot of like these things to the

00:37:28.330 - 00:37:47.500

forefront people's consciousness. Yeah, I mean, it's very much on everyone's front of mind in in my world, at least our movement has been working on racial justice and racial inclusion for a long time, much longer than this specific incident. But this has certainly galvanized people in

00:37:47.500 - 00:38:02.700

a different way. And there's been a strong response, strong demands from us whether it's at the state level, at the national level, what are we doing? How can we act on this? What more can we do? And there's definitely, we have on policy both at the

00:38:02.700 - 00:38:21.110

national level and otherwise and like there are some things Congress is working on, which would be in terms of police reform, that's the particular front of mind issue right now. there's a whole criminal justice approach that's broader than just policing prisons being the main part of

00:38:21.110 - 00:38:36.420

that. But policing may be a first step, but or not just but and a lot of that work has to happen also at the city and county level, because that's where a lot of policing decisions get made. So it's probably a combination used to be a

00:38:36.420 - 00:39:00.780

combination of federal guidelines and mandates and funding and also pressure on city and county officials, police and sheriff, etcetera to make changes locally. Um, the other thing we talk about is, is internally with incarnations that you have to be willing to confront your own biases and

00:39:00.780 - 00:39:18.710

ways in which your congregation might not be the most welcoming to people of different backgrounds. And that's that's racially, but also, and every other every other identity that people bring in the door. Um, and or don't bring in the door because they don't feel welcome. And

00:39:18.710 - 00:39:31.210

that's a very live configuration. That's one of things I'm proud of for the R. J, the Union for Reform, Judaism that we are putting very much front and center these questions of how are we creating welcoming communities that are truly welcoming. And don't just sort of

00:39:31.210 - 00:39:48.800

say the right things and the Department of audacious Hospitality, which we call it, has just recently put out a conditional inclusion assessment tool where congregations can go through this sort of checklist, It's a first step maybe at a board level or other leadership team. You can

00:39:48.800 - 00:40:01.280

go through this. And some of it is just to open our own eyes to like, oh, what are the sort of casual things we do without even knowing it that might make a jew of color feel unwanted or might make someone with certain disability not able

00:40:01.280 - 00:40:13.490

to be fully involved. So some of it is just first raising that awareness and then figuring out what kind of internal, systemic changes we can make. And it's that idea that you have to get your own house in order if you want to be a good

00:40:13.490 - 00:40:29.710

ally out in the world. It's, it's both and always, but it does require some, sometimes the harder work actually is looking within and saying, how are we getting this wrong that we don't even realize where our blind spots. So it's easier to like go to a

00:40:29.710 - 00:41:00.570

protest and sort of be out there and not confront like how your own behavior is affecting things. Thank you. That's very thoughtful response. Um, in terms of other ongoing news, it is june of 2020. We're both at home and not meeting in the archives today because

00:41:00.570 - 00:41:27.540

of Covid 19. Um, and so I wanted to ask a little bit about how your work has changed in response to Covid. He's, so it's june of 2020 and we're not meeting in the physical archives today because of Covid 19. So I wanted to ask how,

00:41:27.550 - 00:41:56.840

uh, the current COVID-19 crisis pandemic uh is changing your work at the rack or how um you and others are like responding to COVID-19. It's definitely a weird time And we're all being pushed and tested in different ways. I already worked remotely mostly from home because

00:41:56.840 - 00:42:15.610

I'm part of the field team that's in California Ohio new york Illinois. Um and the D. C. Office as well. So we would meet weekly over zoom anyway and I would do a lot of meetings with Dallas austin san Antonio other places in the state leaders

00:42:15.620 - 00:42:33.740

by zoom and meet with Houston people locally and occasionally travel to the other cities to do trainings or meetings. Obviously I'm not traveling now. Um The one of the upsides has been that carnations have opened up their events to a statewide audience. Whereas it normally would

00:42:33.740 - 00:42:49.540

have just been their local members. For example, Temple Beth El in san Antonio did an event on voting rights where they had three panelists over it was all on zoom. Whereas before it would have been in their social hall or sanctuary. And so this way people

00:42:49.550 - 00:43:04.280

from across the state could join the conversation and join the learning and that's been nice And I think we will all hopefully take that with us into the next chapter. Even when things reopen that there's a way to stay connected this way. So using that technology

00:43:04.280 - 00:43:22.280

even more strategically that of course the challenges I was alone when I was working at home and now I have they three co workers, my wife and two kids, my wife is now sort of taking over the home office because she being a cancer. She has

00:43:22.290 - 00:43:42.610

a demanding digital presence because she has to stream worship services regularly. And that requires a whole setup of laptop and lighting and microphone and guitar and like table and background. So she has it all worked out. But you know and she needs that space. We're lucky,

00:43:42.610 - 00:43:58.900

we have a garage apartment and um able to set up here as an alternate space for me. But when schools shut down we have a preschooler and a second grader. That was a big challenge because they had their daily class meetings which the preschooler mostly didn't

00:43:58.900 - 00:44:12.170

want to do, which I understood and our second grader was actually pretty into but just like having space where everyone can sit and like but I'll be on zoom at the same time or he was on Microsoft teams but using the wifi definitely chaos. I give

00:44:12.180 - 00:44:26.230

teachers a lot of credit because they were really doing their best in a very difficult situation and we still don't know what the fall the next few years gonna look like. And we're sitting here in a moment when cases are going up a lot in texas

00:44:26.240 - 00:44:46.520

and hospitalizations in Houston are going up I C U beds are full or filling. So that's really nerve wracking even as we're in phasing of reopening. So trying to figure all that out. I am actually on a furlough right now as we're talking I chose a

00:44:46.520 - 00:45:01.660

slightly longer one than some of my colleagues just because of the family situation. But we're all being furloughed in some regard. The closing of the jewish summer camps and our movement meant a massive loss in revenue and furloughing across the board and some layoffs last month.

00:45:01.670 - 00:45:24.390

So it's a really challenging time. And then the question of like how do you do activism online? Some people have been pretty creative with like drive up protests where they stay in their cars. I did go to the George Floyd march. Okay so I did go

00:45:24.390 - 00:45:37.260

to the George Floyd March in Houston where his family was there. It was it was a big deal because he was being brought back to Houston for burial and I was there for the opening of the march and I went beforehand for a clergy gathering as

00:45:37.260 - 00:45:56.630

well in the hotel nearby where people were masked and mostly stayed pretty social distance. Although I will say that um 6ft can very quickly become three ft and then very quickly become too close. It's hard it's just hard. Um I left right as the march started

00:45:56.630 - 00:46:14.380

because people then were certainly very packed very closely together and I was not super comfortable with that part. But um it does raise the question about how you do activism and advocacy virtually the election official meetings that I talked about from last month, all of those

00:46:14.380 - 00:46:44.390

were virtual meetings by county and just ended up someone local, got in touch with the election administrators office set up a zoom meeting. I joined. Okay, so starting about the march here in Houston. So I did go to the George Floyd march in Houston partly. There

00:46:44.390 - 00:47:00.770

was an invitation to clergy to come to a gathering beforehand in the hotel nearby the march near Discovery Green. And there was a moment of prayer and reflection and some inspiring remarks about how to continue to work together. And, and we were all wearing masks there

00:47:01.690 - 00:47:18.450

and they gave out shirts that said, let my people go now and we all, we all wore those and then went out to Discovery Green. I stayed for the opening remarks and I was struck by the speaker at the beginning who very specifically said, this is

00:47:18.450 - 00:47:32.430

a peaceful protest. We're here to honor Georgia's memory and push for change. But we're gonna be peaceful. And if y'all see anyone out there who is trying to instigate violence, you point them out because that's not over here, they're threatening the integrity of what we're doing

00:47:32.430 - 00:47:47.400

here. Um, so that was, that felt good to hear. Then when the march itself started, people were suddenly packed together on Discovery Green and then through the streets of downtown and I had, I had planned to not stay the whole time anyway, so that I left

00:47:47.400 - 00:48:03.980

at that point. But like you said, the the challenge of doing advocacy and organizing in this time, how do you do that virtually the county election meetings, we've been doing that. I mentioned that we did last month. They were all virtual. We reached out to county

00:48:03.980 - 00:48:22.970

election officials and set up those meetings on zoom and I joined with the cluster of leaders from the county involved just to kind of help take notes and help guide some of the questions. But that's just how we're all doing business right now. That's just how

00:48:22.970 - 00:48:42.060

it is. I'm glad the work can continue and whatever for um with that. I think we're going to wrap up. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today. Thank you for doing this. Excited to be a part of the archive. I

00:48:42.060 - 00:49:00.920

may also have some physical records of interest from the time when my grandparents were teaching Hebrew in Houston or we'll be in touch about that. But I'm also glad we captured the like disruption of trying to do internet interviews in this time and all the disconnection

00:49:00.920 - 00:49:09.210

and freezing and all that comes with that. Thanks for bearing with me. Yes, thank you as well.