00:00:03.010 - 00:00:16.090

Today is May 4th, 2023. My name is Kevin and Ian is also joining us. We're both interns at the Archive. And we'll be talking today with Mr.

00:00:16.090 - 00:00:29.640

Nicholas Hill. He's a talented percussionist. He has a bunch of awesome, diverse experiences in music. So thanks so much for taking the time out of your day to talk with us today. It's my pleasure. Thank you.

00:00:29.660 - 00:00:41.520

Thank you for inviting me. So to start off, we'd like to ask a few questions about your early life. So tell me about your experience growing up here in Houston. Did you like it here?

00:00:43.780 - 00:00:58.450

Yeah, actually, when I was–when I was younger, I think, you know, I guess when you're really young, you don't really necessarily think about, you know, where you are or what the environment is like. You know, the most important things around you are more than likely your parents and

00:00:58.450 - 00:01:14.900

siblings. So growing up as a very, very young child, um. You know, I didn't–I didn't I don't have any memories early on of having any distaste for Houston. Um, I think when you get a little older, you know, you

00:01:14.900 - 00:01:32.080

start to kind of feel, that the place is known and that you would like to explore new things. But then honestly, one of the bigger things that happened to me actually was attending Rice and for the first time ever, meeting a

00:01:32.080 - 00:01:50.860

lot of individuals from all over the country and in some cases all over the world. And, at that point, you know, I actually became probably one of the most staunch defenders of Houston, and I was always repping the city and trying to explain to everyone that, you know, it might

00:01:50.890 - 00:02:07.570

take some getting used to, but it's truly like a really excellent place to be. So you come from a musical family. So how would you kind of describe your household growing up here and kind of the neighborhood you grew up as well?

00:02:10.050 - 00:02:25.370

Um, neighborhood was quiet. It was not exactly suburban, but about as close to it as you can probably get while still being, you know, around the–the 610 loop. Um. There was not a

00:02:25.370 - 00:02:40.880

lot of children in the neighborhood, maybe only a couple other kids. But my brother and I used to, you know, obviously go out and play with them. A little bit older. So that was still back when, you know, we would strap on our rollerblades and go play

00:02:40.880 - 00:02:58.350

street hockey every afternoon on Saturdays. As far as like, you know, the household itself, the musical surroundings. My parents were both musicians. My dad was especially a very dedicated musician for a very long

00:02:58.350 - 00:03:16.020

time and phenomenal guitar player, composer. He was in a band, actually, I think at Rice it was–it was technically a Rice band. Um, but they were, you know, maybe not my taste in music these days, but they put out some really great stuff.

00:03:16.030 - 00:03:29.730

Um, and we still talk about it to this day. My mom, on the other hand, a little bit less focused on music. She was definitely more of a visual artist, but she played piano when I was young.

00:03:29.730 - 00:03:43.110

She played piano and there was always at least a piano and a few guitars around the house. And I remember just. Growing up and hearing her practicing piano and my dad playing guitar and

00:03:43.110 - 00:03:58.620

from a really, really young age, my brother, you know, was clearly drawn to music. He studied piano when he was younger, but he really, I think, found a fondness for vocals. So he started singing.

00:03:58.620 - 00:04:13.110

And at some point I think he took some vocal training lessons. But he was in choirs, you know, in the local–the local groups, schools and stuff. And between the three of them, I was just constantly surrounded by people playing

00:04:13.110 - 00:04:30.200

and practicing and making–making–making the world a better place, I guess. Yeah. Um, I just talked to your brother, and he was telling me some of his musical experiences. So, you know, you're, you know, you're a multi-instrumentalist.

00:04:31.430 - 00:04:45.980

You. You know how to play multiple instruments. Um, so, you know, you first learn how to play the piano, and then you play the cello, and then now you're like percussion, mainly. So can you tell me more about this kind of progression in your journey from one

00:04:45.980 - 00:05:01.220

instrument to the other? Um, yeah, it's–it's honestly, it's not a, not a crazy story or anything. I think piano as a child, it was one of those cases where, the rule in the family is you have to–you

00:05:01.940 - 00:05:16.370

have to play an instrument. And let's start with piano and, and piano, honestly, like I was way too young at the time to really appreciate it, but piano makes a lot of sense as a foundational musical instrument.

00:05:16.490 - 00:05:33.170

It is an extremely difficult instrument to learn how to play, I think, and I'm not good at it by any means, but it does give you a lot of foundational knowledge. I mean, it is technically a percussion instrument, but it, you know, obviously is

00:05:33.260 - 00:05:46.900

also a melodic instrument. In terms of the theory of playing music, it's kind of cool how it literally lays the entire scale out in front of you.

00:05:48.800 - 00:06:05.840

And I think honestly, I think for anyone who wants to be a musician, learning at least a little bit of piano is basically a necessity. Um, I don't– I was very, very young when I stopped playing piano, and I couldn't tell you exactly why.

00:06:05.930 - 00:06:23.300

Um, it might have been like a teacher had moved on, or maybe I just complained about having lessons often enough that my parents finally caved in. But eventually, you know, when I was in elementary school, there was a choice essentially, that was given.

00:06:23.300 - 00:06:37.760

It was kind of an elective period. And they said, you know, you can either join the school's orchestra or you can take an art class, um, like a visual arts class. So at the time, I mean, I was still in, you know, still interested

00:06:37.760 - 00:06:49.400

in the idea of music. So I decided to go for the orchestra. I again, too young, couldn't tell you how I came to choose cello, but I chose cello. I think maybe I just was drawn to the sound of it.

00:06:49.820 - 00:07:02.290

Um, they are really, they–they sound really beautiful still. I mean. That honestly didn't last very long. I probably only played cello for maybe 2 or 3 years. Again, was never very good at it.

00:07:02.290 - 00:07:19.660

I think my brain just doesn't, especially at the time. My brain just did not kind of comprehend the melodic side of music so much. I was much better at keeping rhythm. So at some point the choice came up again.

00:07:19.660 - 00:07:34.870

I think I was changing grades or maybe going into middle school, but the choice came up again. Do you want to do music or do you want to use this elective period to pursue visual art? Um, and again, my mom, being a visual artist, that was also a large part of my upbringing.

00:07:34.870 - 00:07:49.590

I was constantly surrounded by art and sculpture design, just, you know, any kind of visual or– Yeah, any kind of like visual or architectural aesthetic was ever present in my upbringing.

00:07:49.940 - 00:08:06.420

Um, so anyway, at that point, basically I had the choice to make again and I was like, You know what? I'm gonna–I'm gonna give visual arts a try. So I stopped going to the schools orchestra and started taking art classes. Um, and, you know, I thought to myself that that would be the end of

00:08:06.420 - 00:08:18.480

it. But going home one day, my mom kind of took me aside and she was like, you know, that's great. I'm super happy for you. I love art, I'm glad you want to pursue art, but you still have to play an

00:08:18.480 - 00:08:30.140

instrument. And so, um. At that time, you know, I didn't own a cello. Like the family didn't own a cello. We had been renting it from the school for practice and whatnot.

00:08:30.950 - 00:08:41.330

So I was kind of being cheeky. I thought I was being really clever and I asked them, you know, what about drums? Like, if you want me to play an instrument, let's just go for the most rock and roll instrument you can think of.

00:08:42.170 - 00:09:00.790

And honestly, they maybe were calling my bluff, but they said yes. So I signed up for some drum lessons, got a practice pad. Not long after that, got an actual drum set. And it was just–it was–like world

00:09:00.790 - 00:09:15.760

changing for me for like in a musical perspective. It–it something that really connected to me at like a deep core level where something like piano and cello just didn't, I guess again, maybe too young, too immature or something.

00:09:16.390 - 00:09:34.720

But I didn't have the abstract capability to appreciate or focus on learning, you know, piano or cello, but playing drums, like knowing how to hit some stuff and make loud noises and a lot of noise and all the time came pretty naturally to me.

00:09:34.780 - 00:09:50.770

Um, and, you know, I think there's a large part of it that frankly, drums are, and I know most drummers would say this, they're like a really good way to release energy. Any negative feelings or aggression, you've been feeling, it,

00:09:51.160 - 00:10:06.860

you know, it's just so easy to just hit it out on a drum set. Um, so I ended up, you know, playing a lot of drums. Basically get home from school and I would play for at least an hour or two hours and nobody had to tell me to.

00:10:06.860 - 00:10:25.600

They honestly, more often than not, people asked me to be quiet or stop playing drums. Um. But yeah, you know, when you play that much of any single instrument, you definitely start to learn some things and get– gain a little expertise in it. And yeah, just honestly, I never– never really looked back from there.

00:10:27.880 - 00:10:46.010

Mhm. So I know you mentioned that, you know, learning the drums kind of initially was sort of like started from this like, cheeky response. But did you were you interested in, I guess like just like. Music that was that drawn upon, you know, drums or

00:10:46.010 - 00:10:59.690

percussion, um heavily drew upon drums or percussion before or, you know. Um, I mean, the answer is–it's definitely a little more nuanced than just yes.

00:10:59.690 - 00:11:16.800

But the easy answer is yes. Like any I think I was, I was actually I was about 12 years old when I started playing the drums. Um, like any 12 year old, I wasn't. You know, I wasn't kicking back and listening to classical music to relax.

00:11:17.880 - 00:11:33.260

I liked–I grew up listening to all kinds of music, again, a musical family. But when I was really little, I loved the oldies back when Houston had a dedicated oldies radio station. That's the only station I cared to listen to.

00:11:34.640 - 00:11:51.360

We're talking like, old oldies, like 50s and 60s music and that–I think in a historical context, that's when really percussive music started to become pop music, and it's what people were listening to.

00:11:51.380 - 00:12:09.480

Drum set was a, you know, obviously they used drum set before that, but I think drum set started to get this kind of rock and roll persona associated with it and, you know, by the time I was being asked to

00:12:09.570 - 00:12:27.260

choose another instrument around 12, I was already getting into–getting into rock music, a little bit of heavy metal, all extremely percussion driven kinds of music, very rhythmic. And yeah, it definitely was– a lot of that kind of drove me to–to–to playing

00:12:27.270 - 00:12:39.890

drums. Yeah. So you had a lot of, like, musical interests. Did you have any, you know, favorite artists or, you know, music groups that you idolize or kind of looked up to?

00:12:42.630 - 00:12:54.410

Oh, I mean, I wouldn't even know where to start. There's so many of them. Um. When I was when I was really little, I was really into the Beatles.

00:12:54.410 - 00:13:12.440

I was really into big bands like , uh, trying to remember the names of some of these guys, like. So I don't know how much either of you know about drums, but there's a style of drum playing that is called double bass.

00:13:12.860 - 00:13:28.760

So the drummers, yeah, the drummers will set up two physical bass drums. But that actually started with some swing bands back in the, like 30s, I think, um, way before heavy metal took over it. Um, so yeah, I liked a lot of these guys.

00:13:28.760 - 00:13:49.400

I mean, we're–let me, let me try and remember some of the names here... Mhm. Uh, maybe not worth our time for me to, like, look through and try and figure it out, but yeah,[KC: No worries.] big band swing bands.

00:13:49.430 - 00:14:00.410

Um, we're talking like, you know, the song Sing, Sing, Sing the one that goes, like, doo doo. Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo dah. Dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah.

00:14:01.010 - 00:14:15.520

Those songs, like, really, resonated with me when I was super, super young. I remember pulling out my dad's vinyl records of some of these old jazz artists and just listening to them on repeat, essentially.

00:14:18.320 - 00:14:33.140

Outside of that, The Beatles were huge for me. The Beach Boys a little less so, and some like really kind of old, like R&B, like soul music. Like there's one that always comes to mind and I still sometimes will listen to

00:14:33.140 - 00:14:49.760

this track just for a shot of nostalgia, but uh, Little Eva's Do The Locomotion, or I think it may be just called The Locomotion. Um, a lot of those songs were–were super important to me when I was a child. By the time I was learning to play drums, like I said, I was already getting

00:14:49.760 - 00:15:08.280

into rock and a little bit of heavy metal. So the bands at the time that I liked were–i t was mostly whatever the pop rock station was playing on the radio, but but was also starting to explore some more extreme styles of music at the time.

00:15:08.280 - 00:15:23.980

So like System of a Down, I think was an early adoption for me. That was a band that I did start listening to right around the time I was 12, probably right around the time I started playing drums. But they kind of–they were extremely special to me in

00:15:23.980 - 00:15:35.010

that, you know, the instant I heard them, I was like, Wow, this is different and this is cool. It's edgy. It's got some kind of–

00:15:35.010 - 00:15:50.520

almost hard to pinpoint sophistication to it that I hadn't heard in other music. And, you know, being an angsty kid, it was also aggressive. And it gave me a new perspective on the kind of

00:15:50.610 - 00:16:07.930

music that I was open to hearing. And yeah, I mean, that's, you know, that led to a whole lot of other artists later down the line that I've grown to love. But yeah, I would say probably they if

00:16:07.930 - 00:16:25.520

any one group was the most influential in my, you know, musical upbringing, it was probably them. Um. I don't spend a lot of time listening to them today, but. Like I said, they really did kind of change what I

00:16:25.530 - 00:16:38.480

was open to hearing. Gotcha. Um, and can you tell us more about how you kind of got good at percussion then? Like, did you have some notable teachers?

00:16:38.900 - 00:16:51.760

I don't know. Specific resources you use. Some notable experiences. Um, you know, so I did. I had a few I actually only had, I want to say

00:16:52.030 - 00:17:04.180

two kind of formal teachers. Um. One of them was... man, I'm sorry.

00:17:04.180 - 00:17:19.290

I can't remember either of their names already, but essentially, he–he was kind of–I forget where we even found him. Mars Music used to be a store in Houston. I want to say that we found him through Mars Music.

00:17:19.680 - 00:17:33.330

Maybe one of those like phone– phone tab sheet kind of things that people would post up outside of music stores. But I took lessons for him–from him for several months, not super long.

00:17:33.330 - 00:17:48.990

But then the store actually closed and we didn't have a way to contact him, so I stopped–I stopped taking lessons at that point from him. Um, he was, he was really cool. I mean, he was obviously older than me, but he was into a lot of the same kinds of

00:17:48.990 - 00:18:04.230

music that I was starting to explore. A lot of heavier music, more extreme styles of music. And he was super excited to, I think, kind of teach this young moldable mind about how to play extreme drums, which was, you know,

00:18:04.230 - 00:18:16.600

way, way beyond my skill set at the time. Um. So yeah, so–we–we lost contact with him and I think I stopped taking lessons for a while. But a friend of my brother's and actually the drummer in his band in high school

00:18:17.050 - 00:18:31.630

recommended another woman to me who was teaching at the Houston Baptist University, I believe. And I signed up to take lessons with her and it was for an even shorter time. I probably only went to her less than a dozen times.

00:18:32.320 - 00:18:49.850

Um. But she– she gave me, I think a lot of keys to, you know what–not, not necessarily like even techniques, more like ideas about how to become a better drummer.

00:18:50.410 - 00:19:02.660

Um, and I remember specifically one of them, the first teacher, the guy that I'd met through Mars music, he said, this is, you know, this is how you do a double stroke roll. It's right, right, left, left, right, right, left, left. And you just play it really fast.

00:19:02.660 - 00:19:17.110

And, you know, I was terrible at it and he—he more or less said you'll, you'll get better at it over time. You just have to keep trying. Um, and she asked me one day, she–she basically it was

00:19:17.110 - 00:19:29.530

probably maybe my first or second or third lesson with her. And she essentially sat me down and she's like, we're going to go through your rudiments to see where you are, what your skill level is like. And she–she got to the double stroke roll and she said, play it.

00:19:29.530 - 00:19:42.040

And her jaw kind of dropped a little bit. And she's like that, you know, she didn't say that was terrible, but her face said that was–that was not good. Um, and, and she was like "Who, who, who are you going to before

00:19:42.040 - 00:19:56.290

this?" And I named the I remember that I have a very vivid memory of this. I named my teacher and she said, "Oh, him? I used to teach him. What did he tell you?" And I said, "Well, he said, you know, it's right, right, left,

00:19:56.290 - 00:20:07.570

left, right, right, left, left. And just practice it and practice it fast and you'll get better over time." And she's just like, "No, don't listen to that. Practice it slow and be really deliberate. She's like, you have to practice.

00:20:07.570 - 00:20:21.580

You don't just get better over time. You have to practice it. And like, methodically." Um, and that was honestly probably the single greatest lesson I ever learned when it comes to

00:20:21.610 - 00:20:37.560

how to practice an instrument or get better at an instrument. Yeah. She, she you know, she only taught me, like I said, less probably a dozen or fewer times. And then for whatever reason, again, I don't–couldn't remember, but I

00:20:37.560 - 00:20:56.450

stopped going to her and basically would just play on my own. Um. And yeah I mean a lot of it was beyond the play deliberately and get, you know, play deliberately and practice

00:20:56.450 - 00:21:12.320

methodically. There was a lot of experimentation like f or me the first time I, you know, knew–before I even could have told you what a syncopated rhythm was. I heard some of my favorite drummers doing it.

00:21:13.640 - 00:21:31.610

People like, you know, people like John Dolmayan from System of a Down or Abe Cunningham from the Deftones, they would play these–they're not complicated beats, but they have like, interesting syncopation that would definitely be difficult for a beginner drummer, which I was, and I heard it

00:21:31.610 - 00:21:46.280

and I knew what it sounded like and I could roughly sing it back, but, you know, coordinating my limbs to make it happen on a drum set was impossible for me. Um. And at that point it became a. Just let me keep trying.

00:21:46.320 - 00:21:57.650

You know, let me just keep trying. Like I roughly know, you know, I know how it's supposed to sound. And the only challenge is getting my feet and my hands to move in the right way to reproduce it.

00:21:59.480 - 00:22:12.980

And, you know, eventually you land on it once, right? And once you get it. Once you get it right once, you know that you can get it right again. It wasn't necessarily an accident.

00:22:14.520 - 00:22:32.430

So yeah, I mean, a lot of it really was at the end of the day, just keep trying and you'll get better. Even though there really does need to be some kind of method to it. So once you, you know, got better and improved, you learned more.

00:22:32.940 - 00:22:53.540

What was kind of the first band or music group you ever joined or participated in or made? Um, so that's actually like a really funny question to me because. One of the questions you didn't ask, which honestly kind of thought you might, was like,

00:22:53.540 - 00:23:06.920

why drums? Why not guitar? And I–and I actually do remember very s pecifically, I thought to myself, like, guitar is cool. And like the rock stars play guitar, but everybody plays guitar. I don't want to be like everybody.

00:23:06.920 - 00:23:23.400

Let me choose drums. Um, and that became like kind of a funny c oincidence later in life when—when I started to get good enough at drums to actually play with other people. Um, I had a bunch of friends who all played guitar

00:23:23.400 - 00:23:36.150

and, you know, a bunch of the kids in school who were in bands all played guitar or bass and nobody played drums. So everybody was like, Oh, you play drums? Do you want to come play with our band or come to this jam session?

00:23:36.150 - 00:23:50.990

Because nobody had a drummer, right? I was like, like a rare–a rare animal around those parts, I guess. Um, so I ended up playing a lot with a lot of different people, but never really in bands.

00:23:51.530 - 00:24:05.090

It was mostly like I had a friend that had a friend from this group or a friend from that group or a friend that went to a different school who, you know, I knew from some other coincidence. But I would play with them all the time.

00:24:05.090 - 00:24:19.300

We would just get together. And it was it was most often just me and like a guitar player just playing together. Um. The first time. I actually want to say the first time I actually, jumped

00:24:19.300 - 00:24:32.410

into kind of a band setting and had you know responsibility, like it was not just a complete free for all, it's just we're just having fun and, you know, the garage kind of moment. But like, we have a show and we need to be prepared.

00:24:32.920 - 00:24:49.460

And these are the songs that you need to know. It was actually from my brother's band in high school that he'd been a member of for years already, but they had booked a show, I want to say it was about 3 or 4 weeks out the drummer

00:24:49.460 - 00:25:04.850

of his band broke his wrist and again, you know obviously he couldn't play, but there weren't a lot of drummers around. And not only that, but I had been, you know, of course, my brother's fan, and I'd been to their shows and I sort of knew the music.

00:25:05.450 - 00:25:19.160

So they approached me like as soon as they found out he broke his wrist, they're like, Can you fill in for him? And I was like, I don't know. We've got, you know, three and a half weeks for me to learn your whole set and play with you but, you know,

00:25:19.340 - 00:25:32.000

I took the challenge and we did. We played probably six days a week for those three and a half weeks leading up to the show. And I really put in effort to learn the songs and learn the changes.

00:25:33.210 - 00:25:50.750

And yeah, that was honestly, one of maybe a handful of times that I've ever actually played drum set in front of an audience, and that was a really cool show. I don't know if either of you ever had the opportunity to go to

00:25:50.750 - 00:26:12.010

Fitzgerald's in Houston, but it closed recently and was demolished. Yeah, that sure is. On the second floor of Fitzgerald's place is legendary. Yeah, I remember your brother telling me a bit about it too, and how, like, you kind of stepped up for the role.

00:26:12.010 - 00:26:25.030

Um, that's awesome. So, you know, after that, I'm not sure if your brother told me more about this, but like, after you performed with, I think, the band, it was Fugue, right?

00:26:25.290 - 00:26:33.760

Um, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Um, so did, did you continue playing with them for a while or like, what happened with that?

00:26:34.000 - 00:26:49.790

No, after. Yeah, after that, it was kind of, it was, it was more or less a one and done kind of thing. Like I wasn't trying to you know, supplant the existing drummer. And he was an extremely talented drummer, too. And, you know, he had just hurt his wrist, so he just needed some time for it to heal

00:26:49.790 - 00:27:03.550

up. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. After that, I mean, honestly, I don't remember exactly what year that was. Probably my junior year of high school, so maybe.

00:27:04.760 - 00:27:19.270

2004, 2005, somewhere in that neighborhood. And after that I went to Rice. Once again, it was kind of the same story. I met a lot of friends and like, you know, as a musician, I

00:27:19.300 - 00:27:31.950

sought out other musicians at the other dormitories. I was at Sid Richardson. One of my early friends was at Weiss. So he was right there and he played bass.

00:27:31.950 - 00:27:48.540

He's one to this day, one of the best bass players I've ever heard. Um, we met up a lot and actually we did. I don't know if they still do it, but we did 2 or 3 times. We did the Battle of the Bands competition at the Weiss–at the Weiss College.

00:27:50.340 - 00:27:59.700

I think it was the Battle of the Bands recently, but I'm not sure. But I'm from Sid too. But anyways. Awesome. Death from above.

00:28:00.300 - 00:28:15.090

Yeah. I mean, um, I guess a random question, like a Sid specific question I have just popped into my mind is like, um, I mean we have a new building now. New Sid. It's–Old Sid's not really being used anymore.

00:28:15.450 - 00:28:33.750

It's kind of like temporary housing for people from Hanszen. But like, I went down to the basement and there was like, you know, there's like a stage and stuff. I don't know if you guys, like, ever used that at all or. Yeah, definitely. We used to–we used to, um, yeah, we

00:28:33.750 - 00:28:47.670

used to definitely, like, schlep all our–all our equipment in and out of the basement on a regular basis and go play down there. It's a lot of fun. I mean, the acoustics are not great, but they're really fun because it's really echoey in there.

00:28:47.670 - 00:29:05.050

It's like a huge resonant chamber. Um. Yeah. Good times. That was. That was a good basement to play in. Um, so I guess I'd like to move on to more of, um, I

00:29:05.050 - 00:29:22.750

guess your more recent like percussion experiences or I guess maybe not that recent, but, you know, you've, you've been with a couple like Japanese, like drum groups. Um, I think, uh Ondekoza.

00:29:22.750 - 00:29:39.290

Right. So can you tell us more about that? Like, how, how what was that experience like and how you got into that whole thing? So when I was still in high school, and

00:29:39.290 - 00:29:58.030

I'm 99% sure it was my senior year, I heard about a concert happening at Miller Outdoor Theatre. I think it was just from like a newspaper clipping or something that I heard about it. But it was, you know, it was advertised as like Kaminari Taiko of Houston playing the,

00:29:58.060 - 00:30:05.050

you know, Japanese drum ensemble at Miller Outdoor Theatre. It's a free show. Um. I hopped on the chance. I was like, that sounds fun.

00:30:05.050 - 00:30:18.530

Let me let me go check it out. So I went to go see the show and I was just honestly blown away by just the enormity of the sound like it w as one of those things

00:30:18.530 - 00:30:35.790

and–one of my favorite feelings in the world, I think, is when you're at a concert and you can feel that certain beat hit you in the gut, you can actually feel like your gut move, right? Just an incredible feeling.

00:30:35.790 - 00:30:45.900

But the whole concert was like that. It was just high energy, loud, big drums, lots of d rama. And I was like, That's pretty cool. I play drums. They play drums.

00:30:45.900 - 00:30:59.910

It looks like fun. It's a very physical kind of playing, right? I mean, these are huge drums with huge drum sticks, so I went and did a little research, found out that they offered lessons, like had

00:30:59.910 - 00:31:14.780

classes. And I was like, you know, why not? So I went to check one out, had a good time, kind of went back and I wouldn't say that I was dedicated to it at the time. Like I was just kind of filling

00:31:14.810 - 00:31:24.560

time I guess? And having fun. So like, there was no reason for me to stop. Like, it was a fun time. Where else do you get to hit drums that are bigger than a person?

00:31:25.020 - 00:31:42.200

Um, but so just I just kind of kept going. And eventually they kind of like, you know, we will occasionally promote people out of essentially what is our beginners or like lessons program

00:31:43.310 - 00:31:54.110

into our performing group. So they came to me and they said, "Do you do you want to join the performing group?" And I was like, "Yeah, sure, why not? That sounds fun." Um, and then I want to say it was probably several months, three or

00:31:54.110 - 00:32:06.590

4 or 5 months. They were doing that same concert that I had seen again, except this time I was going to be in it so I had to learn all, you know, learn all of the more advanced songs that they had.

00:32:08.410 - 00:32:20.510

And honestly, it was just it was really fun. The–the–the thrill of being on stage is really, kind of indescribable for me. Like it's a weird thing where you–

00:32:24.640 - 00:32:37.390

I don't know. I don't know if I have the words for it, really. Um, it's almost like, an out-of-body experience or like you're not quite there for it.

00:32:37.390 - 00:32:56.370

It's almost meditative in a way, like you kind of get so absorbed in the moment and the music that you're playing and the stress that your body is going through with Taiko in particular, that that externalities wash away and then you come out

00:32:56.490 - 00:33:14.430

on the other side and it's just, you know, huge adrenaline release and like, Wow, we just played a two hour show non-stop, an athletic feat. So it was it was an extremely rewarding experience for me. And I just kept getting deeper and deeper and deeper into it.

00:33:14.460 - 00:33:31.370

Um, eventually over the years that I played with that group, the, you know, older–older, more experienced members would have moved on. They would have moved to other states or something. Um, but I was still there and, you know, had showed some drive.

00:33:31.380 - 00:33:50.200

So I got opportunities to do things like, you know, help fundraise for the group or help design a set, you know. Um, and eventually that became like, oh, we need somebody to help us teach the new people. So I would start doing that and then over time, the group

00:33:50.200 - 00:34:10.020

had, you know, a number of different kind of, I guess, ideas on how to improve, and one of them was like, it was more like, let's kind of find some structure on how we want to do this. You know, maybe it's time to create an intermediate level between the

00:34:10.020 - 00:34:24.130

absolute new people and the performing group, so on and so forth. I mean, there were just so many levels of it that I was involved in. I spent so much of my time with these people, and I loved them all very much. And we would we would travel together.

00:34:24.130 - 00:34:42.100

We went, I want to say as far south in my time with them, we went as far south as the border of McAllen, Texas. We went as far west as San Francisco to perform with the very first Taiko group formed in America, the San Francisco Taiko Dojo.

00:34:42.580 - 00:34:57.760

We went as far east as Tennessee and Mississippi played shows basically all over, you know, the South and Southeast US. New Orleans was a regular stop for us.

00:34:57.760 - 00:35:13.620

We I mean, we just we traveled a lot, played a lot. And, you know, I didn't get paid for it, but I did it because I loved it. Um, but yeah, I mean, honestly, like by the time I was graduating from Rice, I was already in a

00:35:13.710 - 00:35:31.080

position where I was writing songs, helping to organize a nd arrange pieces for new performances, helping train the new members, helping to essentially arrange our performing

00:35:31.080 - 00:35:47.650

groups practice schedule because, I mean, it wasn't necessarily that I was a better drummer than anyone else in the group, but I had more experience with the formal methods of playing. Like, not a lot of people there would–at the very

00:35:47.920 - 00:36:04.110

beginning, not a lot of members there would have been able to say, like, I know what a paradiddle is, let's practice paradiddles, right. Um, paradiddle just being another percussion rudiment. So because I knew those things, because I'd had enough formal training

00:36:04.140 - 00:36:20.170

to know those things, I ended up in a position where I was also helping to kind of try and move the group forward together and make us all better so that our performances could be tighter and you know, more impactful, I think, for the audiences.

00:36:21.160 - 00:36:40.510

So, yeah, I mean it–it was a huge, a huge, huge part of my life. Like, without a doubt, it was– in a lot of ways it distracted me from my time at Rice, from my studies, from um, you know, career goals. When I was young, when I was 17, 18, 19, 20, whatever it was

00:36:40.510 - 00:36:58.200

like, I don't wanna think about what I'm gonna do after I graduate college because I'm having a lot of fun playing Taiko now. Um, through that journey, you know, I obviously learned that there are several groups in Japan that are well known that are professionals that are very hardcore u

00:36:58.640 - 00:37:16.800

m, the–the first one and probably biggest maybe now, but even, yeah, maybe even now, but definitely at the time the biggest was a group called Kodo. Um, and I looked them up, found out they had, you know an apprenticeship program where they, they'll train you for nine months or a year or something at your

00:37:16.800 - 00:37:29.580

own dime. And then if you're good enough, you can join the performing group. Then with them, you get to go tour the whole world and put on these, like, big, fantastic shows in the world's most famous concert halls. And I said, That is what I want to do.

00:37:29.670 - 00:37:43.380

I want to go be a member of this group. Um, so I in a lot of ways kind of, half heartedly devoted myself to it, and say half heartedly because I don't know.

00:37:45.430 - 00:38:03.280

I don't know how much I ever really meant it to go join them specifically. I think maybe there was a little fear in the idea of leaving the country and going to join this really hard core group that, you know, they live together, they eat together, they work seven days a week together.

00:38:03.280 - 00:38:22.100

They exercise together. It's literally 24/7 for a year straight with a whole bunch of people I don't know, speaking a language I don't know in a country I've never been to. Definitely a scary prospect, but I guess I kind of at that point, I sort of let it drop and I graduated from

00:38:22.100 - 00:38:40.760

Rice. I was still playing with Kaminari in Houston. Um, I was working an odd job at one of the Rice U labs just to support myself with no real prospects, like I hadn't really–I hadn't really put any serious effort or thought into

00:38:40.760 - 00:38:59.830

what to do and how to make a living and I was still just super, you know, hyper focused on this Taiko group. And then out of nowhere, probably about a year and a half after I graduated, I got an email from a Japanese American guy who was living with another

00:38:59.830 - 00:39:14.570

group called Ondekoza in Japan. They– coincidentally or maybe not coincidentally, they were the father group of Kodo. So it was originally just Ondekoza.

00:39:14.930 - 00:39:32.960

And they were formed back in the mid 60s, and then at some point, I think in the 70s or early 80s or something, Kodo actually split off from Ondekoza. A handful of members was basically like, We think we can do things differently and better, so we're going to take all the drums and go do our own group.

00:39:33.560 - 00:39:52.550

And so they went off and did that and Ondekoza did not, you know, dissolve. They kind of kept going and doing their own thing, sticking to what Ondekoza teaches and believes is the–the, you know, their ideal way of performing Taiko. So I got an email from a guy who was with this group

00:39:53.210 - 00:40:10.760

who is a Japanese American, like I said, and he was basically like, calling all interested parties in American Taiko groups where, you know, we would love to have you guys come out and see what we're about and see if you're interested in joining our apprenticeship

00:40:10.760 - 00:40:26.150

program. Um. And I was, I guess that's one of those things. It's just like kind of crazy that it happened, after it was, you know, after I had spent so long daydreaming about an opportunity like that, it finally just kind

00:40:26.150 - 00:40:40.870

of landed in my lap. Completely unexpected. So I–I reached out to him and we corresponded by email for a few weeks. I sent over an application, an essay

00:40:40.870 - 00:40:52.070

and they accepted me into the group. So I immediately started making plans to pick up everything and go move to Japan to be with them. So I did. Actually, it's exactly what I did.

00:40:52.700 - 00:41:11.440

Just kind of left town to go–to go join this group in Japan. They–they were extremely hard core and you know, not having ever been in the original group or, you know, the group that I had originally wanted to be in Kodo, I can't tell you how they compare, but

00:41:11.440 - 00:41:29.860

I would venture a guess that Ondekoza is more hardcore. Um, they–they had a very kind of austere way of living. I mean, it was not just a musical performing group, right? Like it was, the founder of the group had an idea about

00:41:29.860 - 00:41:48.300

how–how people can respect the world around them in a more meaningful way. So they had a lot of ideas about language and about posture, lifestyle.

00:41:51.190 - 00:42:06.260

You know, things– things to, I guess assuage somebody from living kind of a rude or, you know, too materialistic life. Um, they were–they were super hardcore.

00:42:06.260 - 00:42:23.930

I mean, we ran, it was literally a group that is known for running. That's like their–their, I don't want to call it a gimmick, but I can't think of another word, but they run and they drum, right. And one of their foundational principles was literally that

00:42:24.320 - 00:42:38.930

running and drumming are the same. They called it, I think it was sogakuron, but it was essentially that they're not indistinguishable. That physical training, running the–the mental

00:42:39.800 - 00:42:57.260

stress and fortitude that you need to be able to do long distance running is not different than the fortitude you need to be able to play these drums in a meaningful and respectful way. So for example, they–they in the early

00:42:57.260 - 00:43:13.950

90s, I think then this was probably the peak of their–their career thus far, they did a running tour of the United States. They literally landed I think in like New York somewhere in the Northeast, played a show and then started running the perimeter of the US.

00:43:13.980 - 00:43:31.530

And I'm not even kidding the perimeter of the US. They ran from town to town, had their equipment driven in some kind of truck behind them, but they ran all over the United States all the way south and then west through the desert, all the way up the West coast and then back

00:43:31.530 - 00:43:45.810

across the, you know, the Canadian US border. They ended in Boston where the members all ran the Boston Marathon. And then at the finish line, played a two hour show like, right after running a marathon.

00:43:46.350 - 00:44:03.210

So you can imagine the training regimen for this group was pretty intense. I mean, we did we ran twice a day most days. It would be like you have your your morning six mile run and then your afternoon variety run.

00:44:03.210 - 00:44:15.840

It went from anywhere from like sprints or staircase practice to this is the day we run, you know, 12 miles. Um, so it was just, it was, it was extremely intense. There weren't a whole lot of days off.

00:44:15.840 - 00:44:31.510

I was two-2000? I don't know how far away Japan is from Houston, 2000 miles away from everyone I knew, like all my friends, all my family. I was that far away from the food I loved eating, Mexican food and Cajun

00:44:31.510 - 00:44:48.520

food and, you know, just all these things that were lacking in that lifestyle. And I guess at the end of the day, maybe I'm too materialistic. Too–too materialistic to–to really adhere to their ideals.

00:44:49.700 - 00:45:06.050

So I decided after a year, right around the time my visa was up for renewal, I was like, you know, it's either renew the visa, stay for a year or go back to the States and see where, you know, where I can pick up my life there. Um, obviously I chose that and came back to Houston.

00:45:09.300 - 00:45:24.270

I did–I did go back to Kaminari after that. I played with them probably for another year or year and a half before I finally called it quits there as well. Wow, that's a lot. [laughs] I think–Yeah, especially like, especially

00:45:24.270 - 00:45:40.200

that, how that initial exposure in high school sparked this years-long journey that, you know you even went to Japan and came back and did it for a while. Yeah, very awesome.

00:45:40.440 - 00:45:57.960

I think now I'll pass it to Ian who's going to ask some questions about kind of your education career and some of your current musical endeavors. Yeah, absolutely. So the first question I wanted to ask was, so you went to Rice and

00:45:57.960 - 00:46:14.520

you studied economics, but you said you didn't really have, like, in your bio, you didn't really have your heart in pursuing that field. So did you ever consider like exploring other, like, other majors or like just diving into anything else at Rice ?

00:46:14.750 - 00:46:33.170

Either—both academically and non-academically? Um, yeah. So I–I think, you know, I–I don't know, again, if i t's a me thing, I would guess that it probably is. But I think when I was, you know, 18 or however

00:46:33.590 - 00:46:51.240

old I was matriculating into Rice, I was too young to be asked a question, "What do you want to do with the rest of your life?" I actually started out for no particular reason other than that I enjoyed and was good at physics in high school.

00:46:51.240 - 00:47:06.170

I started out as a Mech-E. So my first–my first year at Rice, I spent, you know, fulfilling core curriculum for mechanical engineering. I was doing physics, I guess

00:47:06.190 - 00:47:23.860

the calculus classes, statistics classes, things like that. And I–I honestly I– Rice academically, Rice was, and I know that I'm not alone in this, Rice was kind of a shock for me. Like I was a extremely good student in high school.

00:47:24.160 - 00:47:36.760

I made good grades. I was strong in the sciences and maths. And then I got to Rice. And that idea that I was good at science and math got completely

00:47:36.760 - 00:47:52.040

obliterated by the first semester. [laughs] So I, you know, I suddenly was f aced with this question like, "Am I actually good at physics? Do I actually like calculus?" Like, am I actually good at these things?

00:47:52.040 - 00:48:07.980

Or–and, you know–or guess was I a stood 'em in–in a–in a completely inaccurate setting, I guess is the best way to phrase it. Um, so yeah.

00:48:07.980 - 00:48:22.980

Mechanical engineering was kind of a slap in the face. And, you know, I took some long and hard looks at who I perceived myself as and what I thought my strengths were. Mechanical engineering basically didn't align with that.

00:48:22.980 - 00:48:40.060

So I decided, you know, like, let me–let me look for other fields that interest me. And I think economics really stood out because I am fascinated, and still am fascinated, by the, specifically the sociological side of economics. The hard data never really interested me that much.

00:48:40.420 - 00:49:02.830

I was not–not great at statistics, not great at, you know, predicting the futures on oil reserves in the Texas Plains or anything of that nature, like I was interested in how people's wants and desires and shifting,

00:49:02.830 - 00:49:20.930

you know, and how that can shift through a population and have ripple effects throughout an economy, which can multiply across various economies or a world economy. Those like broad strokes, sweeping questions were the things that really interested me.

00:49:20.930 - 00:49:37.200

And I thought that, you know, that was what I wanted to learn about. And it seemed to me to be a good idea because it is, at the end of the day, still a practical career path to study economics. There's still a lot of professional opportunities that come from it.

00:49:37.560 - 00:49:49.980

So I thought, you know, this is–this is good. It will be a good balance of both worlds. And–and quite frankly, a huge–a huge benefit of that to me was that the graduation

00:49:51.090 - 00:50:10.450

hour requirements went from, I want to say like 126 or 130 hours, down to, I don't know, 30. So what that did for me was give me a lot of time to choose classes in other departments, elective

00:50:10.450 - 00:50:25.150

classes that really were material that interested me a lot . So I took, you know, anthropology classes, I took religious studies classes, I took literature classes. And I don't regret it.

00:50:25.150 - 00:50:42.200

Those things were extremely meaningful to me. Maybe not a wise choice when it comes to finding a job after school, but extremely meaningful and enriching for me. And again, you know, I kind of, I guess I potentially was still too young

00:50:42.200 - 00:50:53.410

to answer the question, "What do you want to do with the rest of your life?" when I was graduating from Rice. Because the easy first answer was, I want to play taiko. I want to go, you know, make this my entire existence.

00:50:54.100 - 00:51:11.560

I want to live and breathe every second, t his. So that more than anything was the reason I didn't necessarily have my heart in a career in economics. But the–the actual reality is that I sort of tried.

00:51:11.560 - 00:51:30.190

I did try a couple of times to get internships in New York for some of the banks. I did try to, you know, throw my a pplication into the running for certain jobs at oil companies in Houston . But I just–I never really pursued it.

00:51:30.190 - 00:51:48.070

You know, I did not go the extra mile to try and land the gig. I–I wasn't–I mean, it just really wasn't for me. I–I think at the end of the day, even that, even though I had made those choices, to study that for the reasons that I had chosen to study that,

00:51:48.070 - 00:52:00.250

it did not necessarily align with who I think I am and what my goals in life were. So I ended up not–again, not really pursuing that as a field either

00:52:02.880 - 00:52:16.140

. So it's clear that you had a lot of experiences, like different experiences during college. So do you think they kind of applied today as well? Like, did they play a part in your life still today, or was that like kind of

00:52:16.140 - 00:52:33.140

experience in the past and, like, you've moved on? No, I think they definitely play a huge role in where I am now. And a lot of that is a–I think a state of mind. Like I've always been a big believer in

00:52:33.140 - 00:52:52.830

the benefits of being a well-rounded person, o f being a worldly person, of being a thoughtful person. And, you know, if I–if I–I think that if I had really buckled down and focused on a very singular thing, like "I'm going to

00:52:52.830 - 00:53:10.800

be a mechanical engineer after–after I graduate, I'm going to go work f or, I don't know, Lockheed," you know, if I knew that, and I focused so strongly on that path, I think that I wouldn't necessarily h ave the worldview that I have

00:53:10.830 - 00:53:27.810

today. A lot of that being developed by things like spending a lot of time outside of class, playing taiko. You know, the–the group and I guess I didn't really go into detail on the group, but like, the group in Houston was from all walks of life.

00:53:27.820 - 00:53:40.780

I mean, there were people that were–you know, I joined when I was what, like, 17 or 18. So I was very young at the time. Probably, at the time, the youngest person in the group. But by the time I left, I was in the middle range.

00:53:41.200 - 00:53:56.050

There were people who were teens joining. There were people who were, you know, I think we were teaching children's classes. So when–when I would go to the studio, there were, you know, kids running around. And at the other end of the spectrum, there were retirees looking for something to

00:53:56.050 - 00:54:09.880

spend their retired days doing. These guys–and, you know, these–these people came from a huge number of backgrounds, culturally, ethnically, religiously, economically.

00:54:10.390 - 00:54:27.300

You know, some of these guys were super high-powered managers at General Electric. And then, you know, others were jobless hippies that, you know, made candles and sold them at like farmer's m

00:54:27.350 - 00:54:46.720

arkets. All wonderful people and I love them a lot, and they all had such different perspectives on life, and me being able to spend so much time with them and kind of understand where they're coming from, I think, made a huge, huge impact on how I perceive the world today.

00:54:48.050 - 00:55:06.800

On top of that, again, I know I touched on the, you know, the different course load requirements from being like a mechanical engineer versus being an economics m ajor. The fact that I got to choose a lot of the electives that I did, that I got to learn about anthropology or history or

00:55:06.800 - 00:55:22.390

religion, you know, some of my favorite classes there I took with– oh man, I'm blanking on names. I've not been able to remember a single name today, but I would not be surprised if she still teaches at Rice and I can only remember her first name.

00:55:22.390 - 00:55:35.740

It was Dr. Anne something. She's in the religious–religions department. She teaches essentially all their classes on Buddhism. So I took probably 3 or 4 of her classes.

00:55:35.740 - 00:55:53.650

I took classes on, you know, I guess metaphysics, touching on things like psychology. I took classes on Islam and the history of Islam and the theology of it.

00:55:54.430 - 00:56:11.740

Those things like, you know, you don't necessarily–those things don't necessarily get taught to you in your day to day life, right? And like, you can watch YouTube or you can, you know, talk to your friends. And some of us are lucky enough to have– to be surrounded by

00:56:11.740 - 00:56:22.540

people from a lot of different backgrounds. But, you know, in most people's cases, I would say that that kind of knowledge, you have to really seek out. And I was lucky enough to be able to do that.

00:56:23.040 - 00:56:38.710

I think yeah. I think, like I said, I don't regret the choices I made. I mean, I know that on paper it may look like I did not end up graduating from Rice and pursuing c

00:56:39.400 - 00:56:50.590

areers in that path. I mean, it's more than paper. It's definitely true, but I don't regret a second of it. I think–I think all those experiences were formative and I

00:56:50.740 - 00:57:10.300

honestly count myself–like I've been saying, I really count myself lucky to have had them. So I want to move on to the careers—careers that you've had. So you mentioned in your bio that you've had a lot of experience in the culinary industry, so you worked in like a kitchen

00:57:10.300 - 00:57:22.780

and worked as a sous chef for a while, and then was an executive chef at a Japanese restaurant. So can you tell us a little bit more about this phase of your life while you're cooking professionally?

00:57:24.210 - 00:57:39.260

Um, yeah. So more or less when I got back from Japan. I came back and picked up almost exactly where I left off. I was a graduate from Rice and did not have a career path,

00:57:40.260 - 00:57:57.600

so I was, you know, fairly independently minded at the time. I didn't necessarily want to go back to my parents and say, "Hey, guys, I need a place to stay, and can I borrow some money?" So I was more or less like, I don't want to—I don't want to do that to them.

00:57:57.600 - 00:58:16.690

And I want to be—you know, I really want to do for myself. So I said, "I'm gonna find—I'm gonna find a job." My girlfriend at the time was working as a server, I think, she was a server at the time, it's been so long. But she–she helped me get into the door of the restaurant she was currently

00:58:16.690 - 00:58:33.920

working at. And yeah, I mean–again, you know, everybody– I'm sure says this about the experiences they've had, but that restaurant and a couple of the subsequent restaurants I worked at were, again, extremely

00:58:33.920 - 00:58:52.430

formative. Being able to meet the people that I met there a nd have those experiences has just meant the world to me. So working at that restaurant, I started doing entry-level restaurant stuff. It was honestly really mundane work.

00:58:52.430 - 00:59:08.060

I was working as a bar back, and if you don't know what they do, they essentially make sure that the liquor bottles are not empty, they make sure that there's still ice in the ice bins at the bar, they make sure that the guests have their water refilled; things like that.

00:59:08.780 - 00:59:23.750

But not a whole lot of direct interaction with customers. They clean at the end of the night. Lots and lots of cleaning is what restaurants are generally about . But from there I was kind of like, you know—I don't want to say aimless, but kind of

00:59:23.750 - 00:59:38.650

aimless. Like I didn't necessarily know what my next moves were. I was just living my life, meeting people, making friends, hanging out with them. So I kind of just kept working there for a while, started picking up some shifts in the

00:59:38.650 - 00:59:55.780

kitchen here and there, made really good friends with—with one of the chefs at that restaurant, eventually stopped working in the kitchen because an opportunity came up for me to go bartend. And, you know, bartenders tended to make a lot more money and have more prestige

00:59:55.780 - 01:00:07.980

than cooks or bar backs. So I took that opportunity. Worked there for a while, but I wasn't—I don't think I'm necessarily cut out for customer

01:00:07.980 - 01:00:23.340

interaction. I'm not—not the friendliest or nicest person at all times. I don't—I think I have a tendency to kind of wear my heart on my sleeve, as they say. So if somebody—if somebody is rude, or s omebody

01:00:27.560 - 01:00:42.200

seems like they deserve it, I generally am not the kind of person to hesitate in showing how I feel about it. So it wasn't exactly suited for me. So I kind of started thinking, you know, I don't know what to do

01:00:42.200 - 01:00:59.570

now. I was still playing with Kaminari at the time. I had a couple of gigs and, you know, here and there, playing for music, which was really fun. And I think I would have really liked to pursue it but didn't necessarily give it the attention it deserved at the time.

01:01:00.320 - 01:01:16.880

So I started to feel a little bit stuck, a little bit like if I'm going to work in restaurants, if this is—if this is my career path, let me—let me do everything I can to make a good career path out of it, to make an, you know, an honorable and a—

01:01:19.440 - 01:01:33.580

I guess a–a—something, you know, t hat I could be proud of, I guess. A prideful career path. So I decided, you know, I actually really did enjoy cooking, and cooking

01:01:33.580 - 01:01:52.070

was a thing that I loved since I was a kid. I definitely never saw myself going into it as a career, but it was always something I enjoyed doing, would help my mom around the kitchen when I was a child a lot. So I said, you know, let me—let me try—let me try this cooking thing.

01:01:52.070 - 01:02:05.990

So I started talking to some friends. They—one of them had recently left that restaurant to go work at another, which was one of the top kitchens, I want to say, in the city.

01:02:05.990 - 01:02:24.730

I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with me, but, like, in terms of the skill level expected of the people who worked on the staff there, I would say it was one of the top kitchens. And I essentially cold called them. I went to their door after my shift was over one night and kind of was just

01:02:24.730 - 01:02:42.190

like, "Hey, I would like to, you know, I would like to work for you guys. What can I do?" And I didn't even know what it was at the time, but they essentially said, "You can—you can stage for us." And staging is like interning, except brutal, like, extremely brutal.

01:02:42.920 - 01:02:59.470

But yeah, so I staged for them. So essentially what that meant was after my shift, on my off days, whenever basically I had time and the willpower, I would go work for them for free in their k itchen. Again, doing mostly cleaning and some prep work.

01:02:59.950 - 01:03:18.370

And being that I was somebody without a culinary school degree, without any background in cooking, they—they asked me to do that for around two months before they finally were like, "You know what? You–you've been here for two months and you haven't quit yet.

01:03:19.000 - 01:03:36.100

So how about we give you a shot?" So they they did give me a shot. And yeah, it was honestly—I want to say it was the single hardest thing I've ever had to do, c utting my, you know,

01:03:36.100 - 01:03:49.130

cutting my teeth in that kitchen. It was extremely brutal. And, like, I know I talked to you guys about how— what the regimen was like when I was in Japan. This was, like, soul-crushingly brutal.

01:03:49.640 - 01:04:02.560

It was very, very hard work. Very long hours. And just—it's really hard to describe. Kitchens are a special place.

01:04:02.570 - 01:04:15.110

Your coworkers are unlike any coworkers you'll ever have anywhere else or probably ever again. You know, we did—we worked e xtremely hard in that kitchen. I worked with some extremely talented people.

01:04:15.620 - 01:04:33.150

And in my opinion, we made the city's best food at the time. It was incredible stuff. I mean, we're talking like—we're talking like—I forget the name. I think it was maybe The Mercury—

01:04:33.840 - 01:04:45.520

Mercury Orchestra, I forget exactly the name, but I think it's a group called the Mercury Orchestra. We would do events. And so one of them was this—this Mercury Orchestra came.

01:04:45.520 - 01:05:04.650

And essentially they're like, "We're going to play this series of our original music." And our chef got together with their artistic director or director and was like, "Okay, and we're going to make dishes that accompany the music." So we designed a whole tasting menu, I think it was like 12 or 13 or 14 dishes or something

01:05:04.650 - 01:05:21.540

that were all each specifically designed to go with a specific piece that this orchestra was playing. And then, you know, a bunch of Houston's elites would come in and pay probably an ungodly amount of money for a seat at the table.

01:05:21.540 - 01:05:37.790

But that was—you know, that was not unusual. So it was—it was that caliber of work that was expected from us, and yeah, it was an incredible time, but ultimately, I think—I don't know the details,

01:05:38.330 - 01:05:48.920

but ultimately the restaurant closed. I think the owner, the actual owner who is not—not the chef, decided to pull the plug on it financially. Or maybe the lease was up.

01:05:49.010 - 01:06:05.100

I really don't know the details. By that time, I had made sous chef, so I was, you know, I felt pretty proud of that being sous chef at, you know, at least what I thought was one of the best kitchens in the city, if not the best kitchen in the city.

01:06:07.260 - 01:06:21.510

But the restaurant closed, so I was kind of out, you know, out again. But the truth is, is that for a lot of that time, like I said, it was brutal work. And I mean, I was working, you know, pretty not uncommonly like

01:06:21.510 - 01:06:35.550

six days a week. The minimum shift was probably usually like 12 hours, 10, 12 hours. The long days it would get up to 16, 15, 16, 17, somewhere around there. I was—I was burnt out.

01:06:35.790 - 01:06:49.320

I was extremely tired. I had started to kind of say to myself, like, "I don't think I can do this forever." This—I don't know how anyone does. I don't know how anyone past 40 can, you k now, make a career doing this.

01:06:49.710 - 01:07:07.590

And so I explored a few different options there. Like, I knew there were paths forward in—in the culinary industry, like there are jobs, like in research kitchens, there are jobs in academies where you can, you know, teach cooking classes or you can go teach cooking classes a

01:07:07.590 - 01:07:23.340

t local public school districts. There are considerably less stressful restaurants or kitchens you can work in. But, you know, I think at that point, like, I was burnt out to the point where

01:07:23.340 - 01:07:41.280

I kind of thought to myself, like, I just—get me as far away from it as possible. So I started kind of at that point already exploring my previous interests in technology, and specifically in—in coding, because

01:07:43.810 - 01:08:02.520

when I was in school, I had to learn in computer classes, learn some coding. Like we worked with Matlab at Rice, I worked in C# before, C ++, Java, HTML, like the lower level, or basic, excuse me, the more basic level ones I at least had had some exposure to and I'd always

01:08:02.520 - 01:08:16.760

remembered enjoying it. So I started saying like, "I can do this, l ike, I'm gonna—I'm gonna pursue this as a career." But time to do that is really difficult when you're working, you know, 12 plus hour days, 5 or 6 days a week.

01:08:16.760 - 01:08:32.130

So after the restaurant closed, I, you know, one of the former chefs, the actual the chef de cuisine, who was my direct manager, h e'd already landed a new job at another kitchen. So he's like, "Hey, we actually need some help.

01:08:32.550 - 01:08:47.410

Do you want to come work with me?" And I said—I decided essentially to start approaching that as a career path differently. At that point, I said, "I will give you a month. I'll work with you for a month and no more." And I'm firm on that.

01:08:47.560 - 01:08:59.980

So I did exactly that. I went and worked for him for a month and after a month, I left, and he was like, "Are you sure you won't stay?" And I said, "I can't stay here for too long." And I didn't say that to him. But in my head, I was like, "The longer I stay here, the more permanent

01:08:59.980 - 01:09:17.850

it gets and the less likely I am to find a way to r ealign my goals." So that started a path of me just kind of hopping between odd jobs. I literally would pick up shifts at places just for like a night or

01:09:17.850 - 01:09:35.650

two nights. I would—I ended up getting something pretty steady at a ramen restaurant, and I worked there for a while, like a p retty—pretty long while, several months at least. And at that time, I was like, you know, it was,

01:09:35.890 - 01:09:51.310

there—there were some slower days and I definitely was under a lot less pressure. The days were shorter, I was working day shift instead of night shift, my responsibilities were a lot lighter. So I spent a lot of time working on kind of building–building myself up

01:09:51.310 - 01:10:04.480

for a different career path. And then out of the blue, a friend of mine, h e calls me and he says, "Are you, you know, are you busy Saturday?" I'm like, "No, actually I have Saturday off.

01:10:04.570 - 01:10:19.330

What's up?" And he's like, "I want to show you something." So he picks me up from my apartment Saturday morning and he drives me to this empty building. And he's like, "What do you think?" And I'm like–like, "What are we looking at?" He says, "It's gonna be my restaurant." And I said, "That's awesome, dude.

01:10:19.330 - 01:10:29.530

Like, congratulations. I'm happy for you." So, you know, I played pro bono consultant and like said, like these–you know, this is a great thing. This is a great location.

01:10:29.530 - 01:10:47.240

But you could rearrange the dining room this way, or rearrange the kitchen this way, or, you know, it'd be really cool if you set up a, you know, the host–the greeter stand like, right here, blah, blah, blah. And then at the end of the morning, he was kind of like, "So how about it?" And I'm

01:10:47.240 - 01:11:04.370

like, "How about what?" And he's like, "You didn't think I drove you out here just to–to tell me how to lay out the restaurant?" And I was like, "Oh, actually, I kind of thought you did." He's like, "No, I want you to be the executive chef." And honestly, like, I-I–it was a huge

01:11:04.400 - 01:11:17.020

offer, but pretty instantly, I was starting to have second thoughts again, the permanence aspect of it, right? I knew to myself, like, this–this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. This guy, I know him.

01:11:17.020 - 01:11:33.940

I trust him. He's going to make a great restaurant here. I can be a part of that and it will be s emi-permanent. Or I can say no and keep working my–my day shift at the ramen restaurant while trying to figure out how to–how to get out of

01:11:33.940 - 01:11:51.130

restaurants. At the end of the day, I decided that you can't turn away an opportunity like that. I mean, it honestly, to me, in a lot of ways, it was a parallel to the time I got an email about a drum group in Japan that was bringing on apprentices.

01:11:51.130 - 01:12:04.390

You know, you don't–it doesn't happen, right? Like it doesn't happen. Nobody I knew who worked in restaurants basically had ever had somebody come up to them and say, like, "I have funding, I have an idea and I want you to be my

01:12:04.390 - 01:12:23.080

executive chef." So I was like, I can't say no to that. So I went with him and we spent the next, I want to say 4 or 5 months, the two of us a nd his spouse, just renovating the restaurant, doing R&D, prepping things, cleaning out the k itchen, because the kitchen had

01:12:23.080 - 01:12:39.740

been more or less abandoned before. Like, we were still finding bits of product left over from the last restaurant. So yeah, we spent the next several months just cleaning, renovating, preparing, going through the motions of

01:12:39.740 - 01:12:55.070

getting licensing, inspections, like, all the good stuff that goes into opening a restaurant. And honestly, that was–those days were some of my favorite memories, I think, of working in restaurants because

01:12:55.070 - 01:13:14.170

it really was a–it really was a special time. When you don't–you don't have a customer yet that you have to appease, that you have to make happy and that has to provide you income to keep the business afloat. You don't have necessarily–you know, you're not on your

01:13:14.170 - 01:13:28.390

feet in a hot kitchen for 16 hours, but you are on your feet in a kitchen for eight hours. Saying like, "Here's this cool idea for a dish that I had, and let me see if I can execute it.

01:13:28.420 - 01:13:42.380

Let me see if I can plate it to make it look attractive. And let's taste it to see if it–if it actually is good." And so being able to work with somebody who, you know, who has a similar palette.

01:13:42.410 - 01:13:59.550

We shared a lot of the same cuisine interests when it comes to, like, the–the idea of what Japanese food can be like in a city like Houston. We showed a lot of the same ideas, right? So it was–it was an awesome way for

01:13:59.550 - 01:14:12.960

me to, I think, flex a creative muscle that I hadn't really been flexing a lot lately. Like I said, I'd already left the taiko group. I probably, at the time I was still playing drums, but definitely not as seriously as I had in the past.

01:14:13.770 - 01:14:24.980

So it was a great way for me to-to-to, you know, at least try to be an artist about something. So, yeah, so that was awesome. Eventually the restaurant opened.

01:14:25.010 - 01:14:38.810

We, you know, started off with a bang. It was extremely busy. Things were going actually pretty well for a very long time, but there ended up being a divergence, I think,

01:14:38.810 - 01:14:54.940

of not only our artistic ideas or our tastes about food. Ultimately, the–the owner and I ended up kind of diverging on a lot of i deas about what the restaurant meant and where it could go in the future.

01:14:54.940 - 01:15:12.700

So–and by that time, I was once again burnt out, as I'm sure he was, and, you know, anyone who has to go wo rk like that in a kitchen. But yeah, I was working six days a week again, 12-hour-m

01:15:12.910 - 01:15:21.130

inimum days for that entire stretch. It was about a year. It's just exhausting. Completely, completely exhausting.

01:15:21.130 - 01:15:35.620

And I was definitely, definitely burnt out. So when the right moment came for me to exit, w e kind of just kind of did. I mean, it wasn't–I didn't just, like, walk out on a shift or anything, but, you know, we

01:15:35.620 - 01:15:48.650

parted ways. And so I was once again found myself in a position of like, "What do I do next?" Like, I still have to make money. I've tried at this point professional musicianship.

01:15:50.000 - 01:16:06.300

I've tried being a research assistant in a lab, and I've tried–t ried working in restaurants as a chef, and n one of them ended up sitting very well with me. But then, you know, it came back to me and was like, you know, maybe I'm not great at

01:16:06.300 - 01:16:26.010

being a software engineer, not a great coder, but tech still does interest me . So I studied up a little bit on that and started applying and got a job in IT. One of the common things I think people ask because I've, you know,

01:16:26.010 - 01:16:36.780

I don't necessarily usually tell everybody my life story. It's a lot to lay on somebody. But one of the things they usually ask is, you know, "How long have you been in IT?" And when I tell them, like, four years, they're like, "Oh, wow.

01:16:36.810 - 01:16:52.260

Like, you know, what did you do before this?" And so I kind of give them the brief version of my life story, and their answer–their question is usually like, "Why IT? Like, why'd you get into IT? It sounds like you had, you know, a creative and colorful career before this."

01:16:53.970 - 01:17:11.090

And the actual answer is something that I t hink about all the time is t hat when I was kids and my–you know, me and my brother were making music together, my dad had an old reel-to-reel recording d evice that we used to use, completely analog.

01:17:11.100 - 01:17:27.990

This was before digital recording was widespread, before bedroom recording studios were a thing. So eventually we moved off that device and onto something digital, onto something that actually had digital tracks.

01:17:28.530 - 01:17:43.200

But we had a couple of occasions over, you know, a few years where a lot of that data went missing or got corrupted or we couldn't retrieve it for this, that, or the other reason. And for me, it was always about problem solving.

01:17:43.650 - 01:18:00.180

So, the question was, how can we–how can we keep this data secure and intact, right? And in a modern world, that ended up being an IT solution. And then, you know, more things come–come into being like, how-how can

01:18:00.180 - 01:18:15.390

we use a digital audio workstation to make the music mix better? Again, an IT solution. How can we make this digital audio workstation something we can share

01:18:15.390 - 01:18:26.680

. Again, an IT Solution. And then over–over time, it morphed into like, "Look, there's all this great new technology coming out. There's these cloud hosting services.

01:18:27.370 - 01:18:44.230

How can we do that?" And my question started being like, "How can we do that but not use Google or not use Microsoft? How can we do it and have the security of knowing that, you know, we have the equipment, that the physical discs containing the data are something that

01:18:44.230 - 01:18:59.620

one of us is in possession of?" You know, obviously just a USB external drive is not necessarily a good solution. So you start exploring other solutions. And ultimately what I'm driving at is that a lot of what I learned about, and

01:18:59.620 - 01:19:17.430

a lot of my interest in IT, grew from p roblem solving how to make music a more effective and-and not-not how to make music more effective, right, but how to make our processes for making and saving our music more

01:19:17.430 - 01:19:34.810

effective and safer. And it really did ended up teaching me enough that I was able to get that first job in IT. So since we're running a-a little bit low on time, I would like to move on to like the last couple of questions.

01:19:34.810 - 01:19:51.000

So I want to ask about, like, current–your current musical endeavors. For example, in your bio, you said, like, you worked with, like, indie labels, like Scorched One Records. So, like, I would—I want to ask, what kind of

01:19:51.120 - 01:20:03.590

music have you been producing? And, like, sort of expand on that, I guess. Sorry. Can you repeat the last part of that q uestion? Just like expand on, like, your experiences and what kind of music you're making

01:20:04.040 - 01:20:18.960

currently. Yeah. So I guess–I don't remember if I mentioned it in our emails, but I have since moved to New York, so I'm now, like, very far away from Houston.

01:20:18.960 - 01:20:32.880

So, it's different here. And there's a lot of things that are different about New York. One of them is that it's been challenging to carry my drum set around and to have places to play it.

01:20:33.510 - 01:20:48.890

You know, I'm lucky enough right now to live in an apartment that has a kind of a subbasement area that is, you know, encased in concrete, basically. So it's pretty quiet down there. I don't–I don't–at least I don't think I'm irritating the neighbors a lot.

01:20:48.890 - 01:21:03.290

If I am, they haven't mentioned it yet. Yeah, so I still play drums. A large part of that is a project that my b rother and I had started way back when I was still at Rice, circa like 2009, p robably.

01:21:04.610 - 01:21:22.940

So we started collaborating back then essentially with the mission of like, let's, you know, let's make the music that we want to hear that nobody else is making because we had a variety of different musical tastes. And even, you know, even he and I like very different kinds of music generally

01:21:24.050 - 01:21:34.990

. But we do also agree on a lot of stuff. So it was how–how can we, you know, what do we do to–to make music that we like, more or less? So I still work with him on that project.

01:21:35.000 - 01:21:54.410

Not as much these days as he would like, and definitely not as much as I would like. Back when we started it, I used to be more–u sed to contribute a lot more into, like, c omposition. These days it's–the composition is really coming from him more than anyone. He's–honestly, I think he's kind of a genius when it comes to that.

01:21:55.640 - 01:22:11.040

But what it is, mostly, these days, is he'll–he'll come to me and he'll say, you know, "I have this idea for a song," or "I have this track that is 60 percent or 90 percent finished, it just really needs your drums to it." And so more or less, all I do now is track drums.

01:22:11.490 - 01:22:29.220

And a lot of the time what that ends up being is still a c ollaborative effort and that when I will send back anything to him, he often listens to it, and again, in his genius of creating something, he's like, "I think it would sound really cool with, you know, your drums made me think that it would

01:22:29.250 - 01:22:43.800

be super cool if the song goes this way instead." So he kind of rearranges or rewrites or remixes different parts of the song, and occasionally that means it needs new, or more, or different drums. So we'll go back and forth sometimes on it.

01:22:46.290 - 01:23:02.920

You know, I think–in a lot of ways, I regret not being able to focus more on the melodic instruments that I played when I was a child, cello and piano. Because playing drums by yourself is very fun and it is very cathartic.

01:23:02.920 - 01:23:24.420

But there is an element of it that I've started missing more and more the older I've gotten, which is a–you know, it gets–I guess kind of– it gets kind of boring, I guess, is really the best word, to just play drums by yourself for hours on end

01:23:25.660 - 01:23:42.130

. You know, practicing is one thing, but, like, you can't–it's extremely difficult to sit down and play a song on drums, you know what I mean? And actually get anything out of it. So that being said, I have recently-ish in the last, I want to say two

01:23:42.130 - 01:23:58.360

years, I've started trying to teach myself a melodic instrument again so that I can have both the best of both worlds, so I can have the satisfaction of being able to sit down and play a song. And–and it was an actual song, not just me, you know, playing rudiments on a snare drum

01:23:58.360 - 01:24:12.880

for an hour. So, yeah, I've been playing guitar. I'm not good yet. I'm hoping that one day I'll be good enough that I can actually start writing songs and p otentially even contributing back to this project that my brother and I have been

01:24:12.880 - 01:24:26.840

working on for so long. I mentioned moving to New York and–I'm sorry, this has been a really long winded series of answers from me. But I mentioned New York specifically b ecause H-Houston has

01:24:26.840 - 01:24:39.740

a fantastic music scene. Like, it's one of the things that I think get–it's kind of underrated, and m ostly because I think it's pretty underground. Like, I went to see a jazz artist once in Houston,

01:24:40.850 - 01:24:57.090

and they more or less came on stage and said, "We don't come to Houston very o ften, but I don't really know why. We should, because if you go anywhere else in the country where jazz is big and you go to any quartet playing at any club, at least one of the four people

01:24:57.120 - 01:25:13.400

on stage is from Houston." And I was like–that really stuck with me because it does speak a lot to the traditions, the roots that music has in Houston. But Houston is inherently an extremely, extremely musical city,

01:25:13.410 - 01:25:25.760

but it's not exactly there on the surface. I think you kind of have to dig. A lot of major acts, kind of just skip over Houston, you know. They'll go to San Antonio or Dallas or Austin and not go to Houston.

01:25:25.770 - 01:25:40.170

I couldn't exactly tell you why, because there's a ton of talent, a ton of venues, and honestly, a huge scene. It was a big part of my–my high school and college, you know, free time was spent going out to see shows.

01:25:42.030 - 01:25:58.720

But one of the things that I think is really cool about New York is that even though those things were all true for me in Houston, there's so much music here. It's honestly–it's just like spilling out onto the street; It's like when you, you know, when you think of

01:25:58.720 - 01:26:12.930

what–I don't know. I mean, I guess it's still true in New Orleans, but you literally can walk down the street and you'll hear three different bands playing out of the different bars and clubs, you know, in a neighborhood.

01:26:12.930 - 01:26:27.300

And I think I just think that's really cool. And it's been an inspiration for me to–to really put more effort into music because I've been so focused on my–my IT career lately. I think that I've been letting it slide a little bit.

01:26:31.630 - 01:26:44.690

Yeah, I think that will be all the questions. [NH: [laughs]] And we're kind of running low on time, so. Yeah, I-I apologize. No worries. I was–I was talking a lot.

01:26:44.700 - 01:26:54.730

I think it might be a family trait. I-I'm sorry? I was talking a lot. I think it might be a family trait. No, I don't think so.

01:26:55.540 - 01:27:12.720

I mean, we have, like, more questions, but I mean, for the sake of time to be respectful to for your evening, um, we can close now and then if-if you'd like, we can always do, like, a part two interview or something like that. But yeah.

01:27:12.800 - 01:27:28.880

Sure. [KC: Yeah.] I was going to say I'm definitely open to it, but–but really I would, you know, you tell me, I guess, if it's something–if there are things you would like to address, like I'm more than happy to meet again. Or, if you don't–I guess if you don't think a meeting is necessary, you can always email

01:27:28.910 - 01:27:36.710

me. And I'm happy to answer what I can over a message. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Thanks so much.

01:27:36.720 - 01:27:52.310

Yeah, I mean, it's very interesting to hear. I mean, all your stories. I think you have a very unique kind of winding path through many fields, which is very interesting and very inspiring to hear about.

01:27:52.310 - 01:28:11.400

I think, especially for people who are interested in like in a lot of things and who like to amass, like, all sorts of diverse experiences on their journey. So I guess before we close, do you have anything else that you'd like to share maybe that perhaps we didn't cover or

01:28:11.610 - 01:28:27.150

any last words? Um, no, not–not really that I can think of. So I really appreciate you guys' time tonight and for reaching out to me. [KC: Yeah.] It is–it was ni-I mean, you know, it's-it's nice

01:28:27.150 - 01:28:46.350

to–it's nice, I guess, to honestly have to–to take the time and reflect on–on what the journey has been so far. Mhm. Yeah, no, I mean, thanks so much for taking the time out of your day again. And, you know, taking so much time to talk with us about all these things

01:28:46.350 - 01:29:01.080

and I'm sure, you know, a lot of people will or whoever views this will be inspired. I hope so. Yeah, well, thanks, Kevin. Thanks, Ian. If you guys again, if you have anything else, any other questions you have

01:29:01.080 - 01:29:03.080

for me or anything at all, just let me know.