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Today is March 2nd, 2023. My name is Kevin. I'm with the Houston Asian American Archive. I'll be talking today with Mr.

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Nathan Hill. He's a musi-musician, artist and teacher of literature and language arts. So thanks so much again for taking the time out of your day to talk with me. Yeah, thank you.

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So, before we get into the nitty gritty of the interview, I'd just like to ask, you know, when and where were you born? I was born here in Houston, Texas, September 1st, 1985.

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And, you know, growing up in Houston, did you like it here? Did you wish you grew up somewhere else perhaps? I mean, I don't know if this is like normal, but I–I tend

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to, like, take a really nuanced view. I mean, I think most people who grow up in a place—you know, there's good and there's bad. So yeah, I mean, it wasn't a bad place to grow up, and in a lot of ways it was a really excellent place to grow up.

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Perfect? No, not really. But—[laughs] But awesome, just the same. So, you know, growing up here in Houston, can you tell me a bit about kind of like the elementary and middle schools that

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you went to, kind of your early educational experiences? Like which schools you went to and any experiences you had there? Yeah, sure. I went to Parker Elementary School, which was the neighborhood, you know, public school, so just down the street

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. I don't actually have that—you know, I guess I do have some memories, vague memories of walking to school. So, I mean, it was definitely close enough to walk. So I'd be surprised if I wasn't walking every single day. But I feel like maybe I got dropped off sometimes.

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But they had a really robust music program so as far as, like, you know, music goes, they were not, un—well known. I remember my piano teacher really well, Miss Booker.

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And—you know, I–I–I tell people, I–I don't know details, so I can't really go into detail about it. But I—if I'm not mistaken, I think Beyoncé also went to Parker Elementary and I believe she was there at the same time I was there.

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I didn't know her because she was a few years older than me. But, you know, it was a–it was a nice place. Like I said, neighborhood school, people were friendly. You know, most of my memories from Parker actually do have to do with

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music, piano, like the music room. Probably one of the first really public recitals that I remember was through the music program at Parker, you know, and I–I was playing piano on this raised

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dais at the Galleria. This was before like Galleria IV was built, so if you know Houston and you know the Galleria really well, I think it's where the large circular fountain is now.

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The one that, like, drops water from the ceiling. Like before that was there, there used to be—I think it was in that location, but there used to be like a–a raised dais. And so I remember, you know, one day, I got to get out of class and we took a

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field trip over there and me and 2 or 3 of the other piano students and, you know, set up shop and basically played there pretty much all day for the–for the shoppers. It was a pretty cool experience, so—no, it was a great experience, actually, Parker

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Middle school, I went from public to private. And I think–I think that's a little bit unusual, actually, the fact that I jigsawed really my entire education between public and private. So middle school, I went to a private school , it was also very religious, an Episcopalian

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school, Saint Thomas. You know, the kind of school where we went to–to church every single day. And as a part of the curriculum—I mean, as a part of the school life, not necessarily as a part of the curriculum, but we went to

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church every day. And as a result, music was also a strong part of the culture there because, of course, you know. Church. So, you know, I–I–I want to say

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it was in seventh grade maybe, at the beginning of seventh grade when I joined the choir there. And so that was actually the beginning of my singing. And that's like primarily what I ended up doing with music, I think was–was voice, even though I started with piano.

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And so that came out of middle school, though. And, you know, once I joined the choir—and I actually did–did that for kind of mercenary reasons, as I recall, because if you were in the choir, of course, you got to sit up, you know, at the front of the church in–in the choir.

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And the seats were more comfortable than in the pews. And then also, you know, there's also a lot of stuff going on in the pews with a bunch of 12 and 13–year–old kids. And so the teachers are always walking up and down the aisles.

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And I just remember it being kind of tense down in the congregational area. So it was kind of like a little bit mercenary. I wanted to sit in the cushy seats and just kind of be away from–from all the drama that usually ensued under the radar,

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which is why I ended up joining choir. But then it ended up being a really, really great experience. I loved the director. I can't for the life of me recall his name, but I remember his face really well.

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I remember the organist, Mr. Schultz. He actually invited a few of us who were in the choir over one day to his house because he had this old organ, I remember, that was like totally

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falling to pieces. And so we actually helped rebuild it, you know. So I got inside the organ and was like, putting little gears back together, and— [laughs] including little hammers and things. It was pretty cool ex—that was a pretty cool experience, too.

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So, you know, like musically especially, I remember really good things from elementary and middle school and of course, just in life overall. They were perfectly fine places to be. You know, I don't know if–you if you have like more specific things you want to know

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about those schools, like I'm sure there's plenty to tell, so just ask. But those are kind of like my–my memories of how it–how it went down musically, at least in a general sense, so. Yeah, so and Parker is this, like, music magnet school, I

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believe, right? I actually don't know. It may be. Um, well anyways, like the, you know, program, like they have pretty

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robust music programs so I. Remember it was strong. Yeah. Okay. Would you say that your—you know, I'm assuming your

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parents had a pretty supportive role in your musical endeavors as a child and beyond? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, overall, yes, absolutely.

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Especially early on. I mean, like piano, for instance—of course, I didn't really have a choice. That wasn't my choice to–to do piano. You know, they were very much of the, you know,

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I don't think—I guess people still do this, I actually—I feel like people don't—aren't quite as much like this anymore. But at least back in those days, it was I think for many people it was considered really important to, you know—as you're educating a child

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to make sure that that child gets an extremely well–rounded education. And so I think that was what was on my parent's mind at the time. And, you know, I don't think they ever wanted me to, like, just do music, that wasn't their purpose.

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But, you know, piano, it was a part of my education for sure. Um, and I had no choice in that early on, which, you know, thank God. I mean, since I ended up really falling in love with–with everything about it.

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So, yeah, I mean—yeah, they were very supportive. And then, of course, you know, joining choir and–and singing at churches.

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I mean, I don't know many parents who wouldn't be okay with that or supportive of that kind of endeavor. So it was a little bit later on, I think, when–when I got to high school and s-started kind of exploring music in some more alternative ways.

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I don't want to say they weren't supportive, but it was—it was a little bit harder to see all the time, I think for them, all the positives. [laughs] But.

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I can imagine. That's fair. I don't–I don't know. Mom, if you're seeing this [laughs]. So, you know, you mentioned in high school you got into the more alternative side of music.

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So, you know, growing up then, did you have any like favorite musical artists in—and by alternative, what do you mean by that once you got to high school? Alternative in that, you know,

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not–not conservatory type, you know, music. And I—you know, it's weird because I actually think–I was taught using the Suzuki method early on, which is strange because I—I don't think that that's very common anymore. I think it's really rare, I think.

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But I don't—like I said, I kind of dipped out of the conservatory track like really early on once I discovered, you know, these other kinds of music. But, yeah, you know, it

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was–it was–I was actually just talking to my dad about this the other day. Like, I'm trying to remember the first songs , the very first—I started playing guitar also in middle school, I believe, I—I started teaching myself.

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I want to say I took a couple lessons early on, but mostly guitar is self–taught for me, and that was really how I discovered these alternative forms of music, I think. And I'm trying to remember who I was listening to at the time. One of the first songs I ever learned was Push, I think, by Matchbox 20.

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I started learning some Red Hot Chili Peppers early on. I want to say Californication was probably the second or third song I learned on the guitar. You know—shoot, who else?

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I was into a lot of rock bands. You know, Blink 182 was really relevant at the time for 13 year olds. Green Day, of course, like all—all the pop punk band. I was a huge fan of Lit for a long time.

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Lit is an old–old rock band. They used to be everywhere, but I feel like nobody knows them anymore. You know, I want to say 311 was already on the scene. You know, there were some some edgier things too, you

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know, Korn was already on the scene. Gosh, who else? I was just talking to—the reason I was talking to my dad was–was because he was interested in Tears for Fears, like I–I'm was sending him a Tears for Fears video. And he was like, "I didn't know you were a Tears for Fears fan." I was

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like, "Yeah, Dad. Like it was everywhere, all over the radio and like, you know, the late 90s. How could you escape it?" Which is pretty amazing when you think about because most of those songs that they recorded were from like the early and mid 80s, but still getting like incredible radio play 10, 15 years later.

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So "Sting" was–was already around and kickin'. So yeah, I mean, all those guys, it's pretty much anything they were playing on you know, the radio here in Houston in the late 90s, so.

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Yeah. So you joined this rock band in high school? So, you know, tell me more about what that experience was like and how did kind of you and your band members approach like writing music? Were you heavily influenced by what you listen to?

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Did you take a more experimental approach? Um. Well both, I mean I think you know, if–if you were not just a music artist but any kind of artist, I think it's kind of inescapable that you intake influence from the world

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around you and then, you know, put it back out into the world. Reformat it. Maybe re–recombine it, you know, do your alchemy, and then send it back out.

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So, you know, I think our creative process there are four of us. The–the–the core group was the four of us. And I think of the four, there were two of us who were really more focused on the creative side in terms of song writing.

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But we all contributed to varying degrees. I want to say normally, like if you had to–to kind of pin down a standard way that we would do songwriting or handle songwriting, I want to say usually then our guitarist may come up with like a riff or something.

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It was usually guitar driven, honestly. So, you know our guitarist might come up with a riff and then–or it could have been me, but usually it might start with a guitar riff and–and then vocals, you know, after that, and then drum and bass.

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So and that is actually a good question because I–you know, how you write songs, I mean, I think that's one of those areas where–where artists all do it really differently. So–[laughs] but I–and our way wasn't like especially—there was nothing special about it I don't think.

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I mean, you know, our guitars might get an idea, just hash it out. Sometimes he was working with an idea for months, toying around with it before he would bring it to us. You know, other times we'd just be in the studio, you know, rehearsing or doing

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whatever, and somebody would accidentally play something and everybody else would be like, "Oh, that's super cool," you know? And we might go on and turn that into something more significant. So it happened in different ways.

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I forgot to ask. What–What was the name of this band? Um, we went through a few name changes, actually. And I—I think when I first joined–I don't remember what their name was when I first

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joined. They—they had already been playing and kind of doing their thing for a couple of years at that point. And I remember when I came on, it was a change in lineup, like they changed–they switched singers.

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And because I think when I came on like it–I don't think they were intending this at first, like I think they really were just kind of getting me to fill someone's shoes. But once I actually stepped into the shoes and they realized, "Okay, this is changing

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the dynamic, it's going to be something pretty different," I think that inspired them to want to change the name. So the first name that we had that I remember was S—S—Sistine. And then– [laughs] And we actually recorded a record under

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that name. But then, you know, inside a year quickly changed it. And I remember there was this like really fun, like, period where it was probably 2 or 3 months where we were just looking for a new name. And so that was kind of everyone's– [laughs]

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everyone's prerogative or our mission. We were always like, you know, messaging each other. Like, you know, whenever anyone got an idea, we had this little—not a message board because know that didn't exist at the time.

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But like, not—at—at least not the same way it does now. But we kind of like we were always messaging each other and calling each other up like, "Hey, how about, you know, such and such?" We had this long list, I think, like front and back, couple pages of different names.

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And I think we've–we went through a few actually during that period, but finally settled on Fugue, like fugue state or, you know, Fugue in D minor or whatever, and stuck with that basically for the rest of our years.

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So we recorded, I think, another record. If I'm not if I'm remembering right and then maybe like a demo under that name, I think. Very cool. You know, in this band, did you have any

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memorable experiences? What are some places you performed or gigged at? [laughs] Yeah way too many to name. Memories. Yeah we would have to get like– [laughs] Your questions

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would have to get real, real specific for me to be able to think of a really great memory. I mean, I don't know. I could probably just think of a few random ones. In terms of, like, where we played, you know, the–the most characteristic place of course, would be Cardi's, which is a club that was off

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Bissonnet that is no longer there. And Cardi's had a–it was a legacy. But all–you know, most of the clubs were legacy clubs at that time. They had been around since like the 1970s, I think, and were really

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–during the 70s were like a super well known club in Houston, like one of the top–top billing clubs. I'm trying to remember who got famous there. Somebody who got famous, like, played there a

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lot. I don't remember who it was. Some Texas musician, like, maybe ZZ Top, I don't know who it was. So—and we played there a lot. I mean, I would say that that was like our regular place, like whenever we kind of

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wanted to do a gig, but just for whatever reason didn't end up booking anywhere else, like, that was always our default. And we—you know, there were whole months where we would play shows at Cardi's like once or twice a week.

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So in terms of, you know, name brand places that we played at, you know, playing the top floor at Fitzgerald's was memorable for us, I think. For a number of different reasons, actually, not just because it was Fitzgerald's.

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That was also the first time that I got to play with my brother, I think. So he was filling in for a drummer at that concert who had broken his hand a couple days before. And that was interesting because then my brother had to learn our entire set list in like 24 hours

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and–and he pulled it off, actually, it was a really great concert. So that one stands out. And then probably the last concert that we ever played because it was at The Engine Room.

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And of course, anybody who was into music, live music in Houston, in the 20th century would know The Engine Room because it was like the premier club. So this is before Warehouse, before Verizon, before Minute Maid, before all this

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stuff. And a lot of really famous musicians actually would come through and play at The Engine Room when they wanted to do a small show. I want to say even as late as like, you know, the 2010's, there were still cats coming through and playing there.

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So that was outstanding to me because, you know, growing up, I got to see all my heroes play there. And so I got to perform on the same stage. And I remember when we went up there to

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play that night, you know, and I was backstage before the concert with one of the sound guys and I specifically asked him like, "Hey," he–you know, he was setting up like some microphone for me to sing on. And I noticed that it was like a pretty standard, like, cable mic.

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And I was like thinking–I mean, I was used to singing on mics like that, honestly, but–but I told him, I was like, you know, I know that because this is The Engine Room and I know that you guys have like a lot of pretty big names up here. And I was here last week and I saw, you know, such and such playing.

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You know, it was somebody I knew really well. I don't remember who it was. Like maybe the Deftones or somebody, I don't know. And I noticed and I told him I was like, "I was here last week watching the such and such band play. And I–I know that you guys have wireless mics because I saw the

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singer singing with one, so can you show me those? Like, where are those at and can I use one?" And he was like, "Yeah, sure. I mean, here they are." And he took me over to the side and like showed me a little box and there were like three wireless mics in there, if I remember right.

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And he like, "One of them—you know, this one is kind of old. Like, we never use this one. Nobody ever uses that one." So I was like, "Well, okay, it's probably not that– because I want to use the same mic the, you know, the singer was using, like Chino or whoever

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it was. And so it's one of these two, right?" And I was like, "Do you know which one he probably was using." And he was like, "Well, you know, I think this one tends to get a little bit better sound when you're trying to do this. And this one tends to get a little bit better sound when you're

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trying to do this. And because of the kind of band they are, I think he was probably using this one." And I was like, "That's the one I want to use." So I got to sing on that mic. And so I believe I like to believe it's a 1 in 2 chance, but I like to believe that that's probably the mic that, you know, those guys

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were using, my–my–my heroes when I was watching them play up on the stage. So that was an outstanding concert for quite a few reasons as well, and that stands out. It was kind of like the culmination for us. You know, Engine Room was like the place that you wanted to get to at the time, more

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than–more so than Fitzgerald's. Engine Room was like where you wanted to get to. And we had never played there because we weren't big enough, basically. So but–but we finally made it right there at the very end.

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You know, it was–it was real strange, right up to the top of the mountain before you jump off. [laughs] So what happened? I mean, did you continue on with this band in college or

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how did it all, you know, end? That–That concert was actually in college. I was already in college and towards the end of college as well. So I want to say I joined in high school.

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It was–it was between junior and senior year and then I was in it all the way through about senior year in college. So we were–we were together for about 4 or 5 years there. And that last concert, we knew that it was going to

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be our last concert too. It–It was just–it was–it's like one of those times in life, you know, where it-it's like there's so many moving parts and everyone's lives were, like, changing in a time of transition, so.

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It didn't really continue on. That was our last concert and we knew ahead of time it was going to be our last, so. I don't–you know, it's interesting because I–I kind of remember having the feeling like, yeah, this is probably going to be our last concert, but I don't actually remember us

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like advertising like it would be. So maybe, I–I think, you know, there was still some hope that something would continue. You know, I–I knew that, for instance, after that concert, our bassist wasn't going to be playing with us for much longer,

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for–for a couple of different reasons and–I'm trying to remember, I also think maybe we knew that our guitarist was moving as well. And even though he wanted to kind of keep doing it with us, we–we were like–yeah,

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you know, we had been playing at that point and working together from two different cities at the time. And I think just the prospect of trying to do it from like three different cities was just like, you know, that might be too much for us.

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Like we–we might try, but I don't know if it's going to work out. So I don't know. Like we kind of knew and at the same time, maybe there was some hope that it would continue on. And for a while, me and the guitarist, the two songwriters,

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actually did keep working together and keep writing songs. And we started I know we started recording a couple of other demos as well. Never finished them though, you know, just–life happens. So, you know, after this band kind of disbanded,

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in college did you have any other, like, musical pursuits that became kind of your primary focus? I know you worked as kind of an MC, student engineer, like a DJ. Yeah, that was–that was–I al—I always forget about that, actually, because then I would

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say that was not my primary focus at all. I literally was just trying to–to find a way to to keep music in my life in–in ways that would kind of push the envelope for me personally.

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You know, because as a–as a performing musician, I hadn't really been behind the soundboard too much. Only in the studio, really. Only in studio settings.

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Of course, I'd worked with sound guys a lot, but I had never been the sound guy or the sound engineer. So it was something that I consciously did to try and teach myself.

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And at the same time see if I could make some money doing it, which, you know, I was able to make a little bit, which was nice. But no, I would actually say that for the entire time that I was in that band, that was my primary focus for sure.

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So–and that was during the time that I was also emceeing. So, you know, it's kind of like when I was –when it was like our–our off time when we weren't rehearsing or performing or working on an—on a record or a demo. And then I was going out and doing gigs as

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a–as a DJ or an MC at the same time, so. And–and, that didn't really last beyond college either. I was thinking about that recently and how I never really pursued that, and, you know I don't really know why.

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I mean, I think–like I said, it was just the time your–the time of your life when you're about 20, 21 years old and just, life is crazy. Like things change and things happen very, very fast. So yeah, I actually had

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that thought recently, "Well, maybe, you know, maybe that's something that I'd like to do again, actually, is go out and like run sound." But I don't know, you know, just as—just as—just as something to do. And, you know, you were this rock band was your primary focus.

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So would you say that rock music now is kind of like the genre that you're primarily interested in? Or, you know, have you kind of branched out from there? Yeah I mean, you seem like you've been interested in all sorts of music throughout

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your life, but. Yeah I mean, I really started with–because I was trained classically. I mean, that was one of the things that was a struggle for me in the rock band early on actually, was that as a vocalist, you know, a lot of the feedback early on was like, Hey,

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you're way too good. Like you need to, you know–and like once, you know, people find out I'm classically trained, like we would talk to–to like people who've been in the biz and stuff, you know, and they told me

00:28:06.140 - 00:28:20.240

like–you know, once they found out I'm classically trained, they were like, "You really got to unlearn a lot of that. You really got to unlearn a lot of that. And you got to smoke a lot and drink a lot and maybe, you know, start

00:28:20.930 - 00:28:37.960

–then your voice can start like–" So it really was like–I mean, I had to train my voice differently, Like, very differently. But yeah, I mean, I was—so I was classically trained. And, you know, what I was hearing at home was a lot of—my dad was really into film

00:28:37.960 - 00:28:50.530

music at the same time. So I was hearing a lot of film music at the same time. And my dad, all–I get a lot of music stuff from both my parents, but a lot from my dad as well.

00:28:50.550 - 00:29:02.960

He was the one that kind of had a studio, you know, in our house. So I–I was very lucky in that way. I don't think you know, I don't want to say it's not like we had like some huge, like, music studio in my house.

00:29:02.970 - 00:29:14.060

It wasn't like that. It really was like a passion project of love for him because he was in a band when he was young and very big into music. I mean, he still plays today.

00:29:14.100 - 00:29:26.130

One of the–one of the best things that I've been doing with my life in the past year has been playing with my dad again, actually, and recording music with my dad, which is a lot of fun. And he–I—I often say, well, he taught me everything I knows about

00:29:26.520 - 00:29:38.670

re–everything I know about recording. And that's largely true because of the home studio that he built. You know, he's an architect, too, so it wasn't just like, you know, let's slap some equipment together. I mean, it was like a studio

00:29:39.150 - 00:30:00.610

studio. And so what I got from him was a lot of what they termed at the time, "oldies," [laughs] but we can call them classics, right? So yeah I mean I–my musical taste like runs the gamut,

00:30:00.610 - 00:30:16.780

really. As far in terms of like rock music, I would say it's not necessarily that I feel the most passionate about rock music in particular. I don't really, not any more than other kinds of music because I do like all kinds of

00:30:16.780 - 00:30:36.520

music. I love all kinds of music and I have performed and recorded all kinds of music. But I will say that rock is probably the thing that I feel most— by now, it's the thing that I probably feel most trained and competent to do [laughs], Like musically. But, you know, like I said, I do—I do other things,

00:30:36.520 - 00:30:52.210

too. Makes sense. I mean, just because you've been doing it for so long and– Like 4 or 5 years and they were really—yeah, I mean—you know, I performed in madrigal choirs for a long, long, long time, like starting from the

00:30:52.210 - 00:31:10.100

age of 12, all the way up through, you know, the end of college and beyond. But those 4 or 5 years with the rock band, it's true. It was—it was a different kind of intensity. I don't know if—if there's like a positive version of

00:31:10.100 - 00:31:30.300

PTSD. Like, maybe that's—that's it. I don't know. [laughs] A non–traumatic version. So you mentioned that you had to unlearn a lot of things. So in–in this band, were you like screaming a lot or talking about kind of those like,

00:31:30.320 - 00:31:45.450

coarse vocals, that sort of thing, I'm assuming– Well, it's and it's so funny that you mentioned scream in particular in, like yelling, because—like when I—I still actually remember the day that they recruited me, like–like crystal

00:31:45.450 - 00:31:56.730

clear. And I was crossing the parking lot at the high school and this was during the summer months. I was going to the high school for–for some administrative—it was like some day, like kids had to show up for some administrative thing.

00:31:57.870 - 00:32:08.100

And I was crossing the parking lot. I think I was going into the school and the guitarist happened to be coming out and that's when he stopped me. He was like, "Hey, you know, I saw you performing at the in this musical

00:32:08.250 - 00:32:24.070

recently, and you were singing and you're pretty good. Like, I've got this rock band. Can you—are you interested in singing with us at all?" And I was so tepid at first because at that point

00:32:24.340 - 00:32:35.770

I had never done rock music. I mean, it was all classical, like madrigal church music. And, you know, the musical stuff was the most edgy stuff I had done by that point, musical.

00:32:36.700 - 00:32:46.690

[laughs] And so, you know, in my head it was like, "Oh, rock, I don't even know if I can do that. Like, that's beyond edgy. That's really sharp. I think I had to be really sharp for that.

00:32:47.590 - 00:33:00.010

But they were really encouraging. And I remember—you know, I told them, "Give me a few days to kind of think about it, roll it over and see see what I can do." And I remember they were very persistent, actually.

00:33:00.010 - 00:33:15.280

They didn't even let it go six hours without accosting me again. And this time the guitarist brought back like the drummer too, and they basically ganged up on me and the—you know, I remember specifically the drummer was—because the drummer—so he was the

00:33:15.280 - 00:33:26.510

drummer, but he also doubled as a backup vocalist with us. And he also really loved to sing as well. So he—and he also wrote probably half our lyrics as well. So he was big on vocals.

00:33:26.510 - 00:33:41.870

Even as a drummer, he—the vocals were like—he was—he really cared about the vocals, so that's why I was talking to him about it. And, you know, I told him I was like, well, I'm not sure I want to do this. And I'll tell you the honest truth is because, you know, I'm worried that I will

00:33:41.870 - 00:33:56.480

have to do some, like, real guttural stuff and like some yelling and screaming and stuff. And that's just not me. Like, I'm—I've never I've never done that kind of thing before musically. And and he assured me and he said— [laughs] it makes me

00:33:56.510 - 00:34:07.700

laugh. He assured me and said, "No, absolutely. Like there is no screaming and yelling in our music. You know, these are the bands that we really like." And he mentioned like some really milquetoast stuff like.

00:34:08.450 - 00:34:23.210

Yeah, I don't even remember. But it was— maybe like Creed or something like that where they never do any yelling and it's just like—or, you know, he cited I think Incubus too, was one of our—,was a big band at the time and he was like, yeah, see, you know—or

00:34:23.210 - 00:34:40.280

311 for instance, like, see, you don't have to do any like screaming. It's like, we can be really melodic too, and still, you know, kind of edgy and rocky and stuff. And so that was—on the strength of that, I was like, "Okay, I'll do it," you know? And it's so funny because within like–within like a

00:34:40.280 - 00:34:59.000

year, probably, or two years, we had done like a hard–hard nosedive into like, going pretty hard––heavy, you know what I mean? And so I sort of, you know, once the gloves came off, once Pandora's box was opened, it was just kind of like, you know,

00:34:59.000 - 00:35:16.350

all bets off and—and I went real deep into it. And yeah, I mean, I ended up having to have that conversation with some people in the industry and they were like, "Yeah, you're going to have to unlearn all of that." And like I said, you know, like I—I

00:35:16.350 - 00:35:34.140

say it as a joke, but they were very serious and it is a serious thing for vocalists. Like they were like, yeah, you know, smoke a lot of cigars, you know. Drink a lot of like, coke or whatever, anything that'll tear your throat up, you know? Anything that's bad for you.

00:35:36.150 - 00:35:54.570

Which is funny also because I got that same advice from my college choir director a couple of years later for for church music, actually. He used to take the bass section out behind the church before every concert and to give us all cigars and say like, "Hey, guys, you know i

00:35:55.410 - 00:36:13.110

t's 15 minutes before the concert. I want you guys to smoke these," and come back in and we'll have a really nice, melodious, smooth bass voice, you know? So, yeah, I had to unlearn some stuff for—for

00:36:13.710 - 00:36:23.160

the rock music especially. And it was tough, actually. I mean, I really did work at it. Geez. Impressive.

00:36:24.330 - 00:36:39.270

You know, I know, you know, in college you did student engineering work, MC. You stopped—well, your band disbanded. Do you have any big musical projects after that?

00:36:40.260 - 00:36:55.090

Before I get into, like, your label, like Scorch One records and that sort of thing. Yeah, well, I mean, it's all a natural evolution. It's kind of hard to pinpoint like, when things start and stop.

00:36:55.090 - 00:37:12.870

So, you know, once Fugue sort of w ithered away at the end. Like I mentioned, the guitarist and I were actually still working together and writing music with the eventual plan that we were going to record a demo and b

00:37:12.870 - 00:37:31.380

asically form a new band and keep–keep going, keep performing. And I think we were—we actually ended up recording with my brother because by that time he had become a—a very, very competent drummer, extremely skilled actually. And like I mentioned, that concert at Fitzgerald's, that was the first time he had

00:37:31.380 - 00:37:45.750

performed with us—it actually might have been the first time he had performed live. I don't know. I would have to ask him, but by the end of that whole run, like a couple of years later, he was a really good drummer. And so I—I think, you know, we knew we were losing our drummer.

00:37:45.750 - 00:37:58.830

We knew we were losing our bassist. I mean, the guitarist was probably going to try to continue on using my brother to fill i n for rhythm. And we got kind of like pretty deep into recording a

00:37:58.830 - 00:38:14.560

demo, but didn't finish it, like, some life stuff happened that basically made it hard for the guitarist to continue, but I was still going and my brother was was at that point primed and ready.

00:38:14.560 - 00:38:33.220

Like we had been in the studio actively working on this–this demo, right? So as soon as it became clear that the guitarist wasn't going to be able to continue on with us, we had this kind of half finished demo sitting there—and I still have it, actually, I still have those masters.

00:38:33.640 - 00:38:50.650

But, you know, it just seemed kind of a shame to just not play anymore at that point. It had been such a–a big part of our lives, s o basically me and my brother decided to continue and go on because we lost our guitarist.

00:38:50.650 - 00:39:08.510

Basically. It then just became me and my brother's project and we reformulated a new concept and started writing some new songs. We—we started recording with some new musicians and, you know, our goal was basically the same: to

00:39:08.510 - 00:39:20.610

just start doing it. You know, writing songs, putting them out, playing shows. A—Again, like different things happen, life happens. And that didn't quite pan out the way that we were wanting it to,

00:39:20.610 - 00:39:35.060

either. He left and, you know, was living in Japan and actually touring the world as a drummer for–for a while, um, while I was still back here in Houston. Um. You know.

00:39:37.410 - 00:39:49.020

I was carrying the flag while he was away. I actually kept recording and working on some of the projects that we were doing at the time, and there were still a lot of musicians back here in Houston that I was working with at the time too.

00:39:49.050 - 00:40:03.050

So it—it was like—it seemed a natural evolution. Like I said, it's hard to–to know when it starts and stops, so, at some point that turned into the label, so [laughs] it—t's really a continuous thing.

00:40:03.050 - 00:40:18.650

I don't even know [laughs]. So it's like one project turns into one project turns into another project. I don't know. But I–I think at that point, though, it's like I had decided pretty much there was a—there was a moment there where I

00:40:18.860 - 00:40:33.740

thought about like, well, can I should I go out and try to do this commercially? Like, should I go on and like, you know a udition for other groups and things like that and, and keep you know, trying to work the record companies or whatever.

00:40:33.740 - 00:40:49.260

And I think I just decided at that point it was like, screw it. You know, I really enjoy music the way that I enjoy it. And–and like I said, it had a lot to do with, like, what I was doing with my brother

00:40:49.260 - 00:41:06.510

at the time, too. Um. We started those recordings, and then I just—what am I trying to say? I guess what I'm trying to say is that the actual project was literally to start a scene, I think.

00:41:06.510 - 00:41:16.180

Nothing else really. I mean, we sort of had this half notion that we would play some concerts maybe eventually and maybe record a record eventually. You know, we'd never really talked about it.

00:41:20.450 - 00:41:38.170

But, yeah. I mean, I—it's hard to call that a project exactly the way that it all happened. I mean, because we didn't really have like a s—s—the only goal that I know we had in mind, the only actual set goal was like, we're going to write these songs and we're

00:41:38.170 - 00:41:53.560

going to record a record, you know? We didn't—we weren't really thinking beyond that at that point. And then also, you know, to get—to get—it's like, we knew so many people in Houston who were playing music in the alternative scene, you know, And we really

00:41:53.560 - 00:42:09.430

wanted to showcase a lot of that talent. So that was our goal and it was kind of a vague goal, but it was like, we're going to record these songs, you know, maybe record a whole record. And in order to do that, we're going to start a scene essentially and try to

00:42:09.430 - 00:42:29.950

showcase a lot of the talent from young musicians that we know in the crowds that we know. And eventually that evolved over the years into what later became the label, so. So your label Scorch One records, you know, you're an indie

00:42:29.950 - 00:42:45.880

label. You know, I'm quoting, You do not feel confined to the tethers of the music industry in any way. [NH: Yeah.] Tell us a bit about some of the pitfalls of being tethered to the music industry and why this notion of untetheredness is important to

00:42:45.880 - 00:42:58.390

you and the artists under your label. Sure. Well, I think—I don't think every artist that we work with would would probably agree, actually. I think some of them very much would like to be commercial.

00:42:58.390 - 00:43:16.740

BUt I mean, I—I think I just mentioned a minute ago, you know, there was a moment in time in my early twenties as the band that I had been playing with and very serious about for a few years was basically dying and

00:43:19.300 - 00:43:33.100

you know, I was still working with a lot of musicians, but it was kind of amorphous. Like, I didn't have, like, a real solid—you know, like the band, it was–it was so well defined, right? Like, we always knew what we were doing.

00:43:33.580 - 00:43:52.420

And so there was this moment that came in my early twenties as I was at a crossroads. And I basically had to decide, am I going to try and–and actually do music music, like, you know, as my bread, or as some bread, and—or, you know, am I going to just like kind

00:43:52.420 - 00:44:08.630

of do it and enjoy it? And basically, I chose the latter. I mean, I thought to myself, like, I never went and auditioned for any groups, but—and I could have, but it's just like— It's

00:44:08.630 - 00:44:25.090

so hard to–to describe without getting really, really into the details in a gritty way, like the music scene itself was changing and the music industry itself was changing. I mean, I was born in 1985, so, you know, all this was happening around

00:44:25.090 - 00:44:43.560

2006, seven, eight, nine, when the Internet was basically changing the whole world and the whole human race forever, you know, And–and that was wreaking havoc with the way that music was consumed, but also artistic styles themselves,

00:44:43.560 - 00:45:02.820

right? And there was—like I like to say, you know, we can say right now there was like the music world before Kanye West and then the music world after Kanye West. And because he was basically coming up right at that time and. It just was going in a direction that I felt like it was going to be really,

00:45:02.820 - 00:45:20.240

really either–either difficult or just generally unpleasant for me to like, actually keep trying to like go the way of music as a business, you know what I mean? As a commercial business.

00:45:22.990 - 00:45:41.350

You know, it's like when I was in the rock band, we did try to some extent to make ourselves like, you know, what we might call "radio–friendly." But, you know, towards the end of that, we–we basically were going off the deep end into like, extreme alternative territory.

00:45:42.070 - 00:45:57.570

I don't think we cared anymore about being radio–friendly. And I think I continued that kind of feeling when I basically like went solo, meaning just free agent. So that's what it means to me.

00:45:57.580 - 00:46:14.650

It means not being confined to the tethers of music industry means that I don't have to confine myself to any of the styles that are popular at any given time if I don't want to, right? If I were trying to make music that I wanted to go viral or whatever

00:46:14.650 - 00:46:31.360

today, you know, I might be having to do a lot of say, like what feels like market research, you know what I mean? Whereas I just didn't—music, it does—I just don't feel music in that way. Like I was never in it to just like make money, you know what I mean?

00:46:31.360 - 00:46:45.640

So for me, it doesn't matter what other people want, really. And that's what it means to me. Not being confined means that I get to do whatever I please.

00:46:47.980 - 00:47:07.230

[laughs] For better or worse, I guess. So, now, I mean, are you still, you know, creating music under this label, like currently?

00:47:07.230 - 00:47:24.670

[NH: Oh yeah.] Or is this— Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, we try to put out at least one new and original piece per month. That's for the whole label because, you know, we're pretty small, I

00:47:24.670 - 00:47:44.350

mean—so even though, you know, I work with multiple artists— I would love every artist that I work with to put out one original composition or performance per month. But it's—it's very difficult seeing as how we all have day jobs and

00:47:44.800 - 00:47:58.320

lives and stuff like adult lives. We have to live adulting. So, you know, one original piece or performance per month seems—at least for right

00:47:58.320 - 00:48:17.610

now, seems like what we can handle, like pretty competently. Sometimes it's more, you know, I want to say like November last year, 2022, I want to say like I put out 3 or 4 different things. So sometimes it's more, but yeah, it's–it's current and we're still working

00:48:17.610 - 00:48:33.780

on it. You know, it's actually, you know, it's —so, you—talk–talking to you. Kevin has caused me to just like, think back and reach back in my memory in many ways. So like, the record label is something that me and my brother had always wanted to do

00:48:33.780 - 00:48:46.930

since we were kids. And honestly, if we had had the ability, we would have launched it you know, 10 or 15 years ago. So this is not a new idea that I've had. I mean, this is something that we've actually been working on for a long, long

00:48:46.930 - 00:49:02.950

time. Like I said, you know, after–after college, our goal was basically to try and start a scene. And this label is the natural outgrowth of that just many, many years later. You know, it's like I was just talking to him on the phone yesterday and we were

00:49:02.950 - 00:49:18.850

remembering 2020. Everything shut down in 2020 and everybody was at home for a some amount of time in 2020, me and my girlfriend called "the long spring of 2020." And for, you know, the first time in

00:49:18.850 - 00:49:34.450

many years, I had the room, like the mental room and the emotional room to go ahead and actually just put it on a screen. Here's the record company. And ever since then, we've been going pretty strong.

00:49:35.920 - 00:49:49.660

About one piece per month, so. You know, there's a lot of cool, like, rock stuffs and cool, like, ambient stuff on your label. Listened to some of it.

00:49:50.110 - 00:50:08.500

What has been the reception from, you know, friends, family, peers in general that have navigated— Really good. You know? Really good. Yeah. I mean, so—yeah—really good.

00:50:08.500 - 00:50:19.560

Generally speaking. I mean, I–I don't know how else to answer that question. Like some, you know, some pieces, some artists more so than others.

00:50:19.560 - 00:50:35.280

But it just—and it just depends on who you ask. You know, I was at like an art opening not too long ago where we had had just released a piece and some people were asking me about it. The record company and or the record label and

00:50:36.900 - 00:50:51.750

you know, I told them, well, we just released this new piece, like, check it out and I don't—I actually don't remember what piece it was. I think that was one of the months we had several pieces go out. And so I don't know which one they listened to, I still don't know, but I remember their

00:50:51.750 - 00:51:08.720

reaction and they kind of all were huddling around the phone and like listening and stuff. And then they kind of looked up and they were like, "We really love the flute." So I've noticed that that a lot of Americans especially really respond to the

00:51:09.140 - 00:51:23.450

Asian instrumentation, for instance, in our music, whereas they seem less excited about the stuff I would deem more traditionally American. For instance, know we've got like a couple of songs on there that are pretty straight rock, you know.

00:51:24.470 - 00:51:39.750

You've got your four piece like drum guitar, bass. Maybe a second guitar. And sometimes I've—overall, I felt that Americans seem less excited about that and I think I don't know what it is.

00:51:40.080 - 00:51:54.360

I don't want to say there's like an element of exoticism there. But, you know, maybe it's just that a flute is not as commonly heard in pop music. I mean, I–I know music real well, so I can cite plenty of examples of flute in

00:51:54.360 - 00:52:07.770

pop music. But–but maybe, maybe to your average music listener, that's not true. I don't really know. It seems like from for most pop music I've heard these days, I don't hear a whole lot of flutes, but [laughs].

00:52:10.960 - 00:52:26.290

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was talking to a composer last week who—who did—well, he composes a lot of music that blends together. Kind of is like Chinese heritage, especially like Eastern, more classical

00:52:26.290 - 00:52:41.200

eastern music. And he was talking about how, like, some people, like, maybe there's an element that you can like, oh, it like stands out kind of like you were mentioning or— Yeah, I don't want to say like exoticism either, but I know—it's interesting to think about at

00:52:41.200 - 00:52:54.580

least. Yeah. Well, and it's not entirely out of the, you know, I would call our like mission statement or our scope right. At least for that group, Star Empire, which is one that I'm personally

00:52:54.580 - 00:53:10.150

involved with, so I record with that project as well. And that's the one where you're primarily going to be hearing a lot of flutes which are coming from my brother, who is primarily a drummer but knows a lot of Asian instrumentation besides

00:53:10.360 - 00:53:25.820

and the purpose of that project actually was similar to bridge or kind of, you know—because my mother, of course, is from Taiwan and my dad is from here, Texas. So that project specifically was created so that we could try to—

00:53:25.910 - 00:53:42.330

not bridge cultural gaps, but–but just explore both of those aspects of our–of our culture and also just to speak to—more generally, to speak to–to those liminal spaces, right? The intersection of two cultures so.

00:53:43.410 - 00:53:57.570

We're not you know, if you listen to Star Empire, I guess what I mean by that is if you listen to Star Empire, you will not just hear like a mix of say, Western and Eastern Instruments. You'll hear stuff in between too, you know, like I used a Turkish

00:53:57.600 - 00:54:19.610

oud in one song, for instance . Yeah. So. I'd like to move on now to your day job, which is teaching. How would you describe, I guess, your approach to teaching?

00:54:19.640 - 00:54:37.670

Do you—you know, as someone who is who has been so invested in music for a long time, do you kind of take a multidisciplinary approach to teaching? Do you kind of expose your students to music and incorporate that in writing or analysis?

00:54:39.290 - 00:54:58.600

The short answer is yes, absolutely. You know, and–and often, explicitly, you know, especially when I have worked with at–risk students, for instance, at–risk high school student, even at–risk middle school students

00:54:58.690 - 00:55:15.890

even. Okay. Well, if you're they're that young, like middle school students, you don't really need a reason. They could be you know, they could be honor–honor students. And we will we might still use music explicitly just because it's a great learning tool for–for older students.

00:55:16.220 - 00:55:32.780

If we're in a, like a literature course, for instance, I might not necessarily teach music explicitly, for on level or honors. But often for at–risk high school students, yes, I have strong memories of–of doing that often.

00:55:34.300 - 00:55:53.150

You know, it's like for students that don't–don't have a–don't have an experience like a background experience of reading books, or reading anything to draw

00:55:53.150 - 00:56:11.190

on, then very often what we might do to entice them is–is through music, right? So. You know, I have actually explicitly taught, as poetry , songs by artists as–as

00:56:11.190 - 00:56:24.430

various as Coldplay and Tupac. And many more besides, actually. Yes, the answer is yes.

00:56:28.110 - 00:56:44.880

Do you have any important teachers in your life that have influenced the way you teach or change your perspective on teaching? Probably lots. That's a really good question that I hadn't really ever considered before.

00:56:45.030 - 00:57:00.930

Certainly some people that I know and have met, like in my time teaching here in Houston. I can think of probably a couple of different colleagues who have really, really influenced me. But in terms of like historical or public

00:57:01.320 - 00:57:17.690

figures, you know. Probably lots. You know, and I want to name probably a lot of writers, too, because I know a lot of writers have taught as well.

00:57:17.720 - 00:57:36.700

I mean, one of my writing teachers, so, you know, Leah Lax, who taught for Inprint here in Houston, and I–I don't know wher—what she's doing now, but, I remember she told me, you know, when I took a seminar with her once upon a time, she was like, "All writers teach." [laughs] So

00:57:39.830 - 00:57:54.100

I think at the time, I was–I was working on just being a writer and–and kind of struggling. And so I think I was asking her for advice and she was like, well, you know, "All writers teach." And–and I was like, "Yeah, I guess here you are. You know, you're my teacher.

00:57:54.220 - 00:58:13.860

Like, that makes sense to me." So she was a great influence. You know, and like I say, almost any–any–any writer, I mean, I can be really kind of like— I don't want to sound stupid, but like, you know, stuff like, guys like Henry Thoreau

00:58:14.010 - 00:58:29.130

teach me a lot, you know, because I know even if he was not necessarily a teacher teacher, it's like, the guy went on–on speaking engagements. I mean, that's a kind of like educational activity, you know what I mean? Emerson was known for doing speaking tours as well.

00:58:30.460 - 00:58:47.430

Yeah. I studied the classics as well so, you know, Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, like they've all–they've all had an influence. Peter Abelard. Yeah.

00:58:47.430 - 00:59:01.510

And then a whole lot of people who aren't teachers, of course, have inspired me even in my teaching as well. Yeah, yeah. I–I guess it is a hard question to answer because, you know—— Well, but it's a good question.

00:59:01.510 - 00:59:07.270

I would love to answer it more competently. I just haven't really thought about it before. Like, Yeah, who would I pick? I don't know.

00:59:07.600 - 00:59:22.930

No, no. I think that was a competent answer. I mean, like, you know, because we're affected by honestly, like everyone we get or, you know, we're exposed to, whether, you know, physically or academically or, you know, just by thinking or thought.

00:59:24.700 - 00:59:41.680

I'd like to ask about kind of your education in college. You know, you did kind of like political science and international relations. So did you at one point have an idea of pursuing a future in politics or, you know, affairs like internationally?

00:59:41.680 - 00:59:55.960

Or what was the reasoning behind that? Well, so my undergrad education was–was actually in English literature and religious studies, and the idea was to be a writer.

00:59:57.900 - 01:00:14.630

Which I did do for a while, actually, after college. And since I was so deep into music at the time, I mean, that's really what it was. It's like I had a choice. Well, do I want to to go on and try to do music music?

01:00:14.630 - 01:00:33.240

But, you know, I also have pretty much prepared myself to go into a career like in journalism or perhaps law. I was trying to leave the door open for those things. And, you know, basically, can I–can I—it was like,

01:00:33.420 - 01:00:51.240

can I do music like full time or can I kind of, you know, have a really stable and kind of, better endowed career, but also keep doing music? And so that was kind of my idea, which is why I did literature and religious studies.

01:00:51.240 - 01:01:06.450

It's like I was interested and I knew I was interested in people, I was interested in social sciences, I was interested in cultures again, and the intersection of cultures, was why I studied those things in college. I wanted to write about it, whether that was through music or through, you know,

01:01:06.690 - 01:01:21.060

prose or whatever, poetry like I would do it. You know, I'm–I'm—I say a writer and I've written a bunch of different mediums. So like, I was a journalist for a while, but my first published pieces were actually poems. So I still write poetry to this day as well.

01:01:21.370 - 01:01:36.720

I mean, I write lyrics all the time too. So my original idea was actually to be a writer and then, you know, also keep doing music and to kind of have those things bounce off each other and complement each other.

01:01:36.720 - 01:01:53.660

And it did happen for a few years. I just, you know, before I made the shift to teaching. And I actually did end up going to law school at one point as well. And then it–it was—I think it was around that time when that shift happened.

01:01:53.690 - 01:02:11.360

I basically—after I—you know, after I was in law school and basically decided, you know, yeah, I don't know if I want to actually do law as a career, that's when I kind of decided to–to go into teaching. A true helping profession, for sure.

01:02:12.350 - 01:02:33.670

And–and it was only just in the last few years that I went back and studied political science, so. The–the interest in international affairs has always been there since I was a kid because of my dual family heritage.

01:02:34.760 - 01:02:52.200

And you see that current running through my whole life. You know, music, writing, eucation. All of it. And teaching as well, honestly. You're very talented.

01:02:52.230 - 01:03:03.900

I mean, you have a lot of different interests. You've done a lot. And another thing you've done is actually like mosaic pieces, like mosaic artwork. You know, I've—I actually saw a video online where

01:03:05.940 - 01:03:22.650

this work of, you know, like mixed media and mosaic works, I think, by you and your mother. And you mentioned that like part of your interest in mosaics, like comes from an interest in like ancient history—ancient history and architecture.

01:03:22.680 - 01:03:34.720

Can you tell us kind of more about how this mosaic thing came to start? Are they related to your musical endeavors? And I guess what— Only in the negative.

01:03:34.720 - 01:03:48.740

S–S–S—I mean, so both my parents are architects, which is where the interest in architecture comes from, and like the sensitivity to architecture. The interest in classical and–and ancient history,

01:03:50.330 - 01:04:04.250

antiquity, you know, whatever kind of history really, I don't really know where that comes from. I think that was intrinsic to me. Even as a little kid, I was kind of into just hearing stories. I mean it–it—so it's related to my writing and th–that's what it is.

01:04:04.250 - 01:04:13.190

It's the–it's the storytelling aspect of it. I mean, I–I've—I love stories. I love telling them. I love hearing them. I always have since I was a little kid.

01:04:13.190 - 01:04:29.630

And also, to be honest, I think that that probably does play a role with music as well because music is another form of storytelling. So, you know, I think that's where–where–where the interest in ancient history comes from.

01:04:29.720 - 01:04:48.670

Specifically like mosaic art comes out of a pretty—how do I say, like, abstract interest in particular periods of history. Like when I was 13, I went to Italy,

01:04:48.700 - 01:05:00.600

to Pompeii. And we were walking around that dead city for a whole day. And I mean, it wasn't just Pompeii. Of course. That's just where it was most apparent.

01:05:00.990 - 01:05:20.750

But I mean, I–I saw ruins throughout Italy while I was there. And so that's really where the mosaic artwork comes from, I think is–is its connection to antiquity and especially Roman civilization, both ancient and

01:05:20.750 - 01:05:37.010

medieval. And–and so, yeah, I mean, you know, storytelling to history, to ancient civilizations, to ancient Mediterranean civilizations, to ancient Mediterranean art forms.

01:05:38.300 - 01:05:56.540

Maybe that's how I got there. And it–and it really came about during my time teaching as a way to blow off steam. I was trying to describe this to two people, I think at—I don't know if I talked about it on that video that you saw,

01:05:56.540 - 01:06:15.770

I'm not really sure what video that you saw, but I know I've told people before about how just like, you know, teaching—I guess it depends on the school. But at most, I think public schools, large public schools, it's—I–I would never describe

01:06:16.220 - 01:06:25.400

those places as a place of quietude. You know what I mean? Like, they're usually pretty hectic places. There's a lot going on, there's a lot of energy, a lot of people.

01:06:25.880 - 01:06:40.360

And so I think for me, it was a way—in doing the Mosaic artwork, it's like a really kind of self–contained, intimate activity, you know what I mean? Like, I'm doing it by myself. Usually everything is like dead quiet, ou know?

01:06:40.750 - 01:06:52.810

It's like—it's literally the opposite of the school day for me. Or at least it was at the time when I started. Just a way to kind of relax. And instead of using my mental faculties, it was a way

01:06:52.810 - 01:07:10.440

to–to–to be kind of tactile. But at the same time I could do it while–– while specifically shutting my brain off, I think. Um, and you can just kind of sit there and relax and, you know, in the quiet and—

01:07:10.440 - 01:07:24.950

[laughs] I mean, I think it sounds like really horrible probably for most people as a–as a pastime. But for me as a teacher, it was like really necessary just to get that quiet space, you know what I mean? That's where it started anyway, so.

01:07:27.200 - 01:07:41.910

It makes sense. You know, teaching—well, I don't know where you teach now. Do you still teach at a large public school or? No, actually, I've— [KC: Okay.] I've—yeah, you know, I've since kind

01:07:41.910 - 01:07:53.730

of found ways to reduce that–that level of like, kind of mental noise, like [laughs] including not working at a huge public school. Got it. Okay. Okay.

01:07:53.730 - 01:08:10.110

Yeah. I mean, I assume, you know, like, as a teacher, right? Like, you have a lot to manage, a lot of students. What are some—what's like the most difficult thing or the most difficult challenge that accompanies teaching, like to

01:08:10.110 - 01:08:29.630

you? Well, I would–I would say maybe just the— I would say the—off the top of my head, I want to say the work itself. I mean, the people don't bother me.

01:08:29.630 - 01:08:41.870

I love people. Like I said, that's kind of why I got into music and writing in the first place is I–I do love conversing with people. I love telling stories, I love hearing them. So, you know, even if I

01:08:42.900 - 01:09:01.400

–I don't—wouldn't necessarily choose to like be in a space where there's just never–ending kind of constant activity. It–It's like I always used to tell people, you know, most teachers I know—not all teachers, but many teachers are more quiet kind of

01:09:01.400 - 01:09:19.610

people. Like they're a little bit more introverted than your average, I think. And so it's a really special kind of hell, I think, for a lot of teachers, to put them in that situation where you end up having like an excess of 200 conversations daily and not just like passing conversations about,

01:09:19.610 - 01:09:33.480

you know, who won the game or what was happening on the show. Like in a lot of cases, it could be 200, like life–changing conversations in a single day. And that's just a lot. I think it's a lot for any person to handle.

01:09:33.480 - 01:09:50.530

But especially for somebody who's not necessarily used to talking to 200 people per day, you know what I mean? But I–I wanted to say that's actually that's a challenge. But I would say that's not the–the greatest challenge for me.

01:09:50.540 - 01:10:08.040

The greatest challenge, like I said, I think would be the work itself. It's like if you as a–as a reading, writing, literature teacher today in 2023, my biggest challenge is, how do you entice people

01:10:08.520 - 01:10:27.470

to want to do something that they don't necessarily see any value in whatsoever, you know? I don't know. That's always a challenge, and it's different for every person. And have you been—have you ever been inspired by any

01:10:27.470 - 01:10:40.700

student you've had in the past or currently? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I don't want to say which ones, but yeah, some of some of the songs that–that we have written are about students.

01:10:42.300 - 01:11:01.170

Yeah, they inspire me all the time, you know, Every day, really , in–in ways that, you know, people might find surprising. And I can't, you know—I'm sorry, I can't break that down anymore without getting like, kind of detailed and personal, which, you know, don't

01:11:01.170 - 01:11:14.090

necessarily want to dealwith–with other people's, you know, personal stuff. So, but yeah. Yeah, every day. I mean, they inspire me, even long after I've known them.

01:11:14.090 - 01:11:30.050

Like I said, I mean, I wrote songs about, a lot of times I'll write songs just to remember something, just to make sure that I can, you know, it's like I can always remember stuff that happened by rote, like the fact pattern or whatever, but it's a lot tougher to remember a feeling, you know what I mean?

01:11:30.050 - 01:11:44.300

Like, I love that–that those moments when you get a sense memory, you know what I mean? Like when you smell something or you touch something and it like brings—suddenly you just flash back, you know, to a certain place in time and–and a feeling as well.

01:11:45.170 - 01:12:02.120

So a lot of times I'm writing to do that, to preserve a feeling. And so, yeah, I do it quite consciously with some–some students, even. Not just students, of course, but it happens with students where, you know, something that we've done, some interaction, something has really inspired me and I'll say to myself,

01:12:02.120 - 01:12:17.580

"Oh, I really, really want to capture this moment or remember this feeling." Not just the person, not just their face, not just the fact pattern, but actually the feeling of what was happening as well. So yes, in a really visceral way, I can still go back and relive those

01:12:17.580 - 01:12:35.620

memories, which is nice for me. I'd like to talk a bit about your heritage and identity and perspectives on that before we close the interview. [NH: Sure.] Um, you know, you identify as a Amerasian.

01:12:37.120 - 01:12:47.710

You know, you are you have a— Thank you for saying that. You're the first person I've ever heard l ike, use the word Amerasian as a like a semi–official term.

01:12:49.030 - 01:13:00.910

It's–iIt' very not like—ubiquitous at all, like, I've interviewed like other—there's, like, I think the other term is like–like Hapa I think or— [laughs] I don't know that one.

01:13:01.570 - 01:13:12.940

I know, I–I–I have to–I have to check later. I'll let you know. But my question is, you know, how important was celebrating your Asian heritage growing up?

01:13:13.270 - 01:13:29.870

And—you know, because you mentioned that throughout your life, your dual heritage has kind of been a current in your life. So how–how did that affect you and how did you navigate that in your household?

01:13:34.360 - 01:13:54.360

Yes, it was very important and navigating it, not just in my household, but in my life, has been—y ou know, I wish I had something more interesting to say than just interesting.

01:13:54.360 - 01:14:02.880

But it's been interesting. I mean, at times it's been kind of difficult. I would say difficult to interesting. I don't really know how else to say that.

01:14:04.900 - 01:14:19.730

Yeah, it's–it's been important. It's–It's been important to me. I'm not sure that it truly is important, I think—well, that remains to be seen.

01:14:21.520 - 01:14:38.360

Posterity will ultimately be the judge. For me personally, it's been important, yes. I don't–I don't know how to characterize n avigating it, though. There have been times when there's—let's say–let's say this,

01:14:38.360 - 01:14:47.200

there's never been a time when I knew that it was an overt advantage, let's put it that way. That's never happened. So.

01:14:49.330 - 01:15:01.030

Okay. Thanks. So I mean, today, do you still kind of celebrate the Asian side of your heritage at all? Oh, yeah. I mean, how can I not?

01:15:01.540 - 01:15:09.940

And if and if we're, you know, going back to to the music thing, I mean, like. Yes, like we're still doing that. Like Star Empire still records. We still write songs.

01:15:09.940 - 01:15:26.560

And that's still very much on my mind, like artistically and you know, even in my writing. You know, I've never had any fiction published, only nonfiction and poetry, but my fiction writing, you can see it very easily.

01:15:28.000 - 01:15:43.020

My poetry, it's there. I think poetry tends to be difficult for a lot of people, but for a lot of reasons that are not mine. But, you know it's there in my poetry, too, i f one has the–the eyes for it.

01:15:43.020 - 01:15:56.390

And the music as well. So, I mean, overall, it's just really important. And I still do think about it every day. And it's still—it still impacts my life in many ways every

01:15:56.390 - 01:16:14.470

day. That's true. Do you think this idea of this biographical kind of thing where you say you're like an Asian American artist, or an Asian artist, or artist,

01:16:14.890 - 01:16:24.700

or musician. Do you think that's important? Do you think art should be kind of detached from the delineations? Is it like limiting in a sense?

01:16:24.910 - 01:16:32.830

Is it— Yeah. I mean, yes, absolutely. It is limiting. But I—you know, it's–it's all like–like a part and parcel. This is a big discussion.

01:16:32.830 - 01:16:50.450

I'm going to try to not like take up too much time answering it, but, yes and no. Because I think, you know—it's like I said earlier, how can artists not take in what's around them? And then when you when they put it back out, you know, you're getting whatever they took

01:16:50.450 - 01:17:10.860

in. So in that sense, like, you know, I think it's very helpful for musicians if, jeez, this is such a big discussion. If––if globalization continued to apace and a thousand years from now, all the world's cultures where I—you know, I heard a linguist say really recently, this is

01:17:10.860 - 01:17:23.340

somebody that's studying, I think, a PhD in languages now. And they were saying by the end of the century, what, like 90% of the world's languages will be extinct. You know what I mean? So it's it's happening quickly.

01:17:23.700 - 01:17:38.790

And I guess following that logic, you know, things keep going the way they are in a thousand years. If there are no more cultures that can be differentiated, if the Earth h as a global culture, what is the music going to sound like?

01:17:38.790 - 01:17:54.260

What will the art look like? It probably will still be—we'll probably still have really cool things, but it will lose that–that dynamic that many people find interesting, where you have different cultures interacting and colliding

01:17:54.260 - 01:18:12.780

with one another. So in that way, you know, there's good and bad. I think, I mean, it's like, I—you know, you were just asking how how if I continue to, like, think about things like that and–and yeah, I mean, I still do, you know, write music or write

01:18:12.780 - 01:18:28.730

things that have that cultural dualism in mind. But at the same time, I'm sitting there in like a meeting and we're talking about curriculum and like what kinds of stories we need to be reading with our students.

01:18:28.820 - 01:18:47.030

And somebody says, well, you know, part of the reason these kids don't aren't doing well right now and in this class is because none of the stories that the state is giving them have characters in them that look like those kids, right? So they need to be able to see themselves in the characters of the story and if they're

01:18:47.030 - 01:19:03.010

going to be interested in it. And my response to that is, well, but, you know, ultimately that's just going to–going to handicap people, because part of the whole point of of reading,

01:19:03.010 - 01:19:18.040

honestly, is to read what it's like beyond the walls of your own mind. You know what I mean? So it's like, people who are very, very different than you, we need to be able to get inside their heads too. And you're not going to be able to do that and you're not going to be trained to do

01:19:18.040 - 01:19:34.640

that if you're only reading things starring people just like you, you know what I mean? So, I think it's–it's–it's both good and bad and there is a lot of give and take. And I don't think, you know, I'm not going to like call it one way or another because it's

01:19:34.640 - 01:19:51.660

just complicated. It's– It's both important and not important. So the other thing I wanted to say about that is, so when we were kids, right, like 15, 16, and we were just starting to get into like rock music, it was very

01:19:51.660 - 01:20:03.570

important to us. We—I noticed is what I wanted to say, I noticed when I looked around, you were asking me at the beginning of the interview about all the bands and groups that we were listening to back in that time in the mid late 90s.

01:20:04.170 - 01:20:19.680

We were very sensitive to the racial makeup of these bands and the cultural backgrounds of the members of all these like bands that were getting put on the radio and were going on all these tours. And I know—you know, I had a bunch of friends who, of course, were not Asian.

01:20:19.680 - 01:20:36.050

But I also had friends who–who were Asian. And for those fellow musicians who were Asian American, we did notice. You know, when there was a band, you know,

01:20:36.800 - 01:20:49.740

a video or like on MTV or a concert or a new band or whatever with a member who was of the Asian persuasion. We–we really did notice that, you know. So it did play a role.

01:20:49.740 - 01:21:03.150

And I—and I'm not necessarily p roud of that. I don't, you know, it's like I want to say that that shouldn't be the case. Like, in an ideal world, yeah. I mean, it shouldn't matter.

01:21:04.170 - 01:21:18.870

But of course, we all know that reality is often at least a few shades away from–from the ideal. So. No, I mean, I know exactly what you mean by that.

01:21:19.050 - 01:21:35.980

I mean, like, even, like, personally. Like, I mean, I can name, like, a bunch of bands that I listen to that I know have, you know, like Asian musicians within them just because it's like, it–it's just—I don't know, like, i

01:21:36.160 - 01:21:47.500

t just stands out. I don't—yeah, like, and it shouldn't be like that, but— Well, so and again, this is all part and parcel. Like I said, I don't want to be connected to the tethers of the music industry.

01:21:47.500 - 01:21:59.020

And—you know, we mentioned that earlier, and this is part of that. Because if you walk in—you know, the same is true today largely, I think, as it was back in the day, only now, it's digital. Back then it was a physical record store.

01:21:59.020 - 01:22:12.630

But if you walk into a record store, there are different sections and they're labeled, you know what I mean? Like the music industry is actually funneling specific kinds of music to different audiences and that's their their whole business model, right? They want to profit.

01:22:12.640 - 01:22:26.160

That's how they make money. That's one of the ways they make money. And unfortunately, it ends up, I think, a lot of times reinforcing a lot of the—not stereotypes is—I mean, yes, stereotypes, but that's not what I mean here.

01:22:26.160 - 01:22:42.460

But it reinforces that–that idea of–of it mattering, you know what I mean? So, and I wish it wasn't that way. But at the same time, if it weren't that way, we might lose some creative

01:22:42.460 - 01:22:56.320

things as well. But, you know, if it's like, if we—again, if we were all grey skinned and listening to exactly the same kind of music all over the world. I'm sure that there are new ways that people would find to be creative as well. So who knows? We probably stand to gain a lot.

01:22:57.070 - 01:23:10.870

[KC: Yeah.] As well. Thanks so much for sharing your perspectives. Before we close off, I'd like to ask, is there anything else you'd like to share? Perhaps anything we didn't cover the interview.

01:23:12.640 - 01:23:24.570

Oh. No. I mean, you know, anything you guys want to know for the Archive? We're good. Sounds good. Well, thanks so much again for taking the time out of your day.

01:23:25.480 - 01:23:39.850

And yeah, I mean, you shared some great perspectives. It was very interesting to learn about your history as an artist and as a musician and your current endeavors as well. Cool. Yeah. Thank you, Kevin.

01:23:40.180 - 01:23:44.930

This has been awesome. I'm happy to do it. Okay.