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Today is June 11th, 2019. We're here in the home of Nam, we interviewing him for the UC Asian American Archive. My name is Steven Lloyd. Uh My name is May lebron. And uh this is when let's start off with where and when were you born? Seen

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them? Now? He was born in uh 1934. And where was that about Vietnam in Vietnam? Right? So um and what, where in Vietnam? Vietnam, what was it, what was Saigon like back then? Look the eye. I got another in, in, in the, in the. So at

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that time, very quiet and not too many people. Did you have a, well, how was your childhood in Saigon? Let's say it again. How was your childhood in Saigon? He, he attend a school in and nothing else. Nothing special. Where did

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you go to school? First of all, he attend school after his village and then uh the uh go to high school. No, uh go to uh uh uh uh 54. They attend school at uh at the time. What time did I take now? I think after

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uh town and then he attended high school the petro that a very famous high school in. What did your parents do for a living, uh, will be, uh, no doubt, no doubt his, uh, his, uh, what sort of principles did they raise you up on? What

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do you mean my price on, um, make it clear for him, I guess, values, value his family. What, what sort of food do they cook at home? What, what sort of, what food? Uh,

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Yeah, he said that uh during uh he living in his village, his family get the vegetable from the garden but they grow and the fish in the pond or something like that. What was your experience in high school? All

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of it? You? Yeah, he said that during the years he attend high school in Saga that is during the World War Two on end and the, and the South Vietnam still under the colonization of French. And uh uh

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he experience one French troop, go to his class and kill uh uh says one student, one friend and then uh his friend was killed by a French French. And then at that time, he was 14 or 15 years old and he understand that uh uh the

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love of the country. What does that mean? You begin to have the idea how to fight with the colonization? So what did you do after school? Have after his friend was killed by French and the whole student have

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to move with the other school and he had only two years there. And uh after she passed the exam so called one, he was dropped to the Mediterranean in 1954. He say that because uh his family, very, a lot of Children, you

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have nine brothers and sisters so he can omit, cannot go. He, he, he made uh permission out of the army at that time, not to be drafted but only two months. That is, oh, and he come back to the army again? Ok. How did you feel

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about getting drafted? Yeah, because he said that he is sad. He was sad because he, he's not complete his high school that great, great. And he said that his parents want the Children uh have to complete the high school and you

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know that his brother is a doctor. Yeah. So what were some of your experiences in the military? You know, uh because of during the training in the base, he is, he was very skilled in the tactics, how to fight. So the government want

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him to be the instructor in the base, military base. How, how long after being drafted was that, that you um uh um he was in a training camp for six months and three months for training for, to be an instructor. And then uh he

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there for three class classes in the official training and then he allowed to go to the US for 30. 0, ok. Georgia for the 44, building four building. He went to uh the US in 19 7 57 57 for Ban Ban Georgia. What was that like?

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How did you like Georgia? He was there for almost a year and I think I could make it footing with the foot training for the infantry and the uh supplying supply cos both of them about almost 10 months in a year for many Georgia. And after

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that, I come back to region to Vietnam, I go to the and after he left the US, they sent him to the barbecue immediately after given 60 degree in, at the uh at the uh in the MGDMGDMG. Right? I go there and fighting every day, two

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weeks at that time. So you got back to Vietnam in 59 58 58. Ok. Yeah. And then I in uh uh along the border Cambodia in LA and uh since 1975 until 19, no, 1957 to 1959. Ok. What did you right into? Yeah, in the border

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of Vietnam, in the border of Vietnam and Cambodia. The fighting there is the, and you were in the military until you left in the seventies, 1975 at the end of the war. What were some of your experiences as the war escalated experience during the war? He

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attended about 2022 years in the military but a lot of experience, he said that he went to every corner of the country everywhere in the South Vietnam to fight. He says that fighting and then train for officer, like a friend for a command officer, how to

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fight something like that. Yeah, he said that he trained a lot of in there. What was the mindset of most of the soldiers you trained? What, what do you would you say that they were, were, they were the soldiers enthusiastic about, about the, their efforts? Um,

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let's see, I just so like, what was their attitude? I think of the war. He said that every officer believe in him because he's a good instructor. And, uh, what he say they apply in the battlefield and they

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create. So they, they, they do the king. But you, you, you, you, you a lot of, uh, and less blood in the battlefield, more in the training camp, then less blood in the battlefield. That's the way he talked. All

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the training, very difficult, many, many different way, different way category. Basically, you have to open rule to cross the border. Ok. And you attack and the fighting in the city in the, in the village. Uh And, uh, from to training, you deliver a good training for

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the student. They save their in the Yeah, that's why they, so that, uh, most of the unit I train them. They believe that because I said I put it in the, I get some experience and to transfer this to them. Yeah. How did Saigon. And I

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guess Vietnam as a whole change from your childhood when you were in the military, the war. He said that during the president time. So on. Very peaceful, everything is so good to like education, economy, everything is so good. And then

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when the Viet Cong, I mean, Vietnamese communist uh increase the degree of the war, it make chaos and make a lot of change. Do you have any questions? No. OK. How did you come to leave Vietnam when

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you tell them, uh he said that first of all, he, he did not want to leave the country. He want to fight until uh his back. But uh you know that the Vietnamese South Vietnamese so very coal, they

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can fight every, every battlefield and win every battlefield. But because of politics, they are not allowed them to fight. And after the surrender of South Vietnam in on April 30th 1975 there are no way they can fight. And so he had to, yeah,

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he, he still emphasized that he doesn't want, did not want to, to, to, to leave the country because he worked with uh CIA and they support him a lot. They can with the, to the north and he had a lot of some radio station, some something

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like that. But because the situation at that time on the last day of he, he still doesn't want to go. But his friend want him to bring the family to to a ship there and his wife go with them, go to the tour ship and then

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he left with the, with the that, that in the last day of China in 19 on April 30th, 1975 how did the war change when America got involved? Uh uh you uh

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he said that the South Vietnam government was self defense and the north is invaded. So, so the South Vietnam war because the US did not give supply. In the meanwhile, in the north of Vietnam, the communist regime look like the Russian Chinese government, they full support

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the the the North Vietnamese and they gave a lot of amul learn everything. And uh in the meanwhile, in the South Vietnam, we don't have anything from us at that time. So we had to, so how did you decide to come to the US as opposed

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to anywhere else? Uh He said that he doesn't want to go, he did not want to go. But when he drove the family to the boat and then the boat there force him to come to the leadership. He still

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doesn't want to go. He did not want to, you want to stay there and you want to stay there until the end. So was everyone else just going to America and he sort of got dragged along that you tell them to speak my, say it again.

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So everyone else has decided to go to America and he just sort of got dragged along. Um, what I do. Yeah, he said that because he was, he has been in the US

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in 1957 and she, he understand how the American feel. Although that they don't want to, he doesn't want to come to the US. No, he doesn't want to go. But he was taught to go. And, uh, he said that, uh, the US, uh, look like Vietnamese

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and we lose the war. But uh he still uh did not hate America. He understand that. He said that he was friend in UF in for intelligence in Okinawa for six, for six months. So he understand it, understand it. And

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uh when he went back to Vietnam, he doesn't want to stay in the office and he want to go to the battle field to fight. And uh so he said that he understand all what American thinking, think about the war and why they left Vietnam did

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not help South Vietnamese government to fight uh since 1973 something like that. And we lose the war, the war. He had the, he had the, what were Americans thinking? Hello? And he said that he understand at that time uh because the

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war, I mean, too long. And uh uh at that time, the American had to, to, to left Vietnam so cannot have Vietnamese co anymore. We understand that where did you arrive when you came to the US? And don't, don't meet them now in 1975 right? Where,

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where in the US? Did you? He said that in Santonio in 75 I'm happy like you. He said that, uh, he said that, uh, he uh uh in

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Paris in 1968 until uh 72 73 something like that. He understood that the American want to withdraw everything left Vietnam. And he said that and he said that, uh he was an officer. he have to die. I do not,

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I do not, don't blame the American withdrawal of the against us because I know the the poor situation. We lose political reason but not by our view. That's why I want to see to fight until my, until that day. He

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said that uh he doesn't blame anybody because after the loss of Vietnam, but you think that we will take the Vietnam again, we will win again. How long did you live in San Antonio? San Antonio? Three years. What was that like when you arrived? He

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said at that time, Santonio, very quiet, very good for education because his brother living there and graduate from medical school there. What did you do while you were in San Antonio? He, yeah, he did everything like a car wash. His car was $2.10 an hour. He,

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he was uh was and then uh become assistant manager uh 2074 hours. And then the owner said that why we don't buy one to be an owner for that. And, uh, some brother helped him, each one gave us a few $1000 and he bought one, uh,

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station. I borrow $15,000 from two to my brother, two brothers and to invest there to, to, uh, to run here for the, before we run the station here. That's why I come to again. I work over there for three years. I make some money and after

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that, I, I think it's better to work more, make more money to do something that $100,000. I come to do fishing. Yeah. So what was the Vietnamese community in Houston? Like when you arrived? What, what, what was the Vietnamese community like in Houston when you

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got here? Um Like the environment, I guess the Vietnamese at that time in Houston, like were there, were there a lot of Vietnamese people here? He said that in 1978 when he come to the Vietnamese population is

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around $30,000 30,000 people living in Houston and its vicinity. Galston Seabrook came something like that. About 30,000 people. That time, the life in Vietnamese in Houston is very good. But the problem is that uh because of uh KKK uh people go to fishing. He

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said that he, when he arrived in Hill, he knew the problem of that group doesn't want Vietnamese fish man to work at the or something like that. He understand that he want the way, peaceful way. Uh Two group live together in peace. That's what you want

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to. How did you start making that happen? It started in 1979 and uh until 1981 and become strong, the KK group, one of Vietnamese Fishman have to get out of this area and uh they cannot do the work like a fishing in the

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bay. Tried the Vietnamese fishman had to get out of the Western Bay, cannot do this. You know, was there any sort of organization or leadership among the Vietnamese fishermen at that

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time? They don't have any group any at all? Too strong and he got involved in that. So you became sort of a leader for that movement. Think at that time because he can't speak English and he understand grow

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and we went to the Bay and form one group, one organization to fight with them, not fight with, not fight but negotiate with them. The KKK group uh during the night, they have a gunshot to his house and fight at his house and then try to

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get the Vietnamese fishman out of the Yeah, what sort of support did you receive from the people of Houston while that was going on? Uh you know, uh at that time, people in Vibe people in and

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they support him, but they very afraid this care, care, love and they advise him to do not in involved with that, but the fishman uh at that time they have, they, they are only trust him only. Uh he is uh his uh their leader and especially

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his mother advised him that uh you have to live like a American and uh try to help people, try to help uh Fishman there and uh uh try to walk the way peaceful way to win the fight, not fight with guns. No, she said that if

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you, if they kill 50 Fishman and you kill five KKK members, that is your fault. So he said that he had to find a way by the court, by the law or something like that. You know, he

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tried to work to find a way in a peaceful way and uh he tried to reach the leader of KKK at that time and then the leader is, is a veteran Vietnam veteran war. He was in Vietnam in helicopter and uh one day the, his helicopter

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was down the general and himself go to have a medal for that matter. Look like a uh hot metal or something like that to get. Where did we leave off there? Do you remember what, where were we, what were we talking about? Oh, well, the leader,

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the leader of KKK. That's what they say. Uh She said that uh uh she, he know that the leader of KKK is a sergeant in the helicopter and he was uh Vietnam during the war. And uh one day uh his helicopter was shot down and they

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uh they won general and himself wrote to that to save him and gave him the medal and, uh, when the leader of he want to meet with him, but he refused it because at that time he was very careful about that. Yeah. What was his name?

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15 minutes. Ok. Louis B ok. Ok. So how did that eventually get resolved? The, how did the conflict with the KKK come to an end? Yeah, Liam. Yes. Mhm. Uh Louis Den, right? Red red dragon. You dragon. Yeah, it was.

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I know, I know him. He's back out. He used to be a captain Children. He's a fighter. Good, good of the one Cooper helicopter. He fought he in Vietnam and, and uh he get shot, he, he get shot and up at the uh uh province. Yeah.

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The man who come to me with him is my friend and myself with him. I said you are a hero. Oh, but you know that because I know your background, you against me because you want to protect the, the fishermen, American fishermen. But you, you, this

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is the free enterprise country. You if they move out and they have to, they have to, to sell his boat. You still own money where he won vote. I, I found the come on, go to live peaceful. I do not. I, I just sentence sensitive order

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for them to uh stop fighting to make the in the, in the world. So that the, uh, the free men come to take to film. We had one in the fire, fire fire and there was a fighting the argument about three years or right now, if

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you get, if you get the, you get, hm. And one, your lawyer, the lawyer at that time, the lawyer, they, they bring the KKK to the court to, no, we will do. He brought to the court and he said that,

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uh he doesn't want to be any win to be a winner or loser. He want two sides live to next to each other in peace with us. Yeah. So what did you learn from that conflict? If anything and the come

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on that he learned that uh understanding to each other is most important. Nobody knows, nobody is a winner uh living together in peace. That is the most important. What effect do you think that whole thing had on the Vietnamese community in

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Houston? The Vietnamese people? What, what effect did the conflict have on them? He said that the people in Houston living in Houston at that time were very afraid. They are afraid that he was killed. Fisherman was

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killed. People here in Houston was killed, something like that. They are. How you doing? You know, he said that, that however somebody is a, they say that we have to fight until the end. And uh but he doesn't, he did not agree about that.

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And what would you say were the long term effects on the city and the people, everybody now and now the leader of the KKK, he is a friend of him. They are friends and say hello to him any time.

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No. Yeah. He said that all of the boat was fire. He pay for that and he has support. Do not have any penalty to the, how has the Vietnamese community in Houston changed since you've been here? Uh, yeah,

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after the conflict there, uh people in the east and love him like him a lot. Even though that local government, like the mayor met him many times, he advised him to be the Vietnamese community should have an organization and, and then he become the leader, he

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become the first president of the Vietnamese community here. So you said it went to court, what, what sort of result was reached exactly. I, you man, my, I'm sorry, my can talk, you can talk to talk to him. No.

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OK. I uh before the uh the black, I make the statement in front of the uh his group, our group and a lawyer. And it just, I make statement that they uh I would like you to judge it. Will order, I don't know, will be this

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the movie easy, easy to know. But and we are not, they are not losers but we, we know what we did wrong. We have to correct. I talked to my uh fishermen. They correct themselves. Something has been done right wrong. And he, he, he cannot evict

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the whole fishermen out from because the protect them. Ok. And they come to uh they uh oh uh the house in the, in the Austin call me to ask me I would restore together. OK. No, no. So that they said you uh you uh to protect

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your fishermen for the, to get welfare. I said no, you are. No, I want to work very dangerous in the water to make your money and also to file tax, pay tax. Probably not yet to do that. So they don't want, you need to, they have

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to, they don't want that. I love, I uh uh uh I love the country. I, I know what the law is so that they did something wrong against law. I don't want to, to you and just the order after 20 years, the judge after the, after

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the uh the event we just by the International Law International. You what, what did you, you, you, you the uh uh just of the, the height and why I, I miss that because I love the country. I love people. I want, I want, why? See now

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I've read a book. I, I ask you after that. They have to now, no problem. Many American come to ask me and they come to talk to the mayor over there and the over there and I know gentleman. Yeah, we like to read more about the

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interview. But I think that the thing I think we can do this, this, that I like, I, I, and, uh, after that I let you know the, uh, I went to, uh, I always intend to take Vietnam back to, to, to not to be ok. I,

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right now our, that is the, he said that he will have a plan to call on a Vietnam veteran and veteran of allies, seven countries at that time during the war to help President Trump to where is the

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in Vietnam right now? So, ok, how you um I don't like in Vietnam, I don't like the regime. OK, I form there that the uh the organization here, they all like forces who fought in Vietnam. They join it here. The country, American Vietnam is a man

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and uh you have the Korean in Thailand and uh uh to get together with the uh did I wrote again to this, this show, the uh company in Vietnam. No more company. They go, what has been the administration's response to that? He

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said that he had a plan to get together you seven country allied country and invite President Trump to come over here with the audience of about 2000 people to support Trump to this some communist Vietnam right now. That is how

01:27:46.540 - 01:29:16.419

you doing. Yeah, people do. Yeah. Yeah. Fighting for freedom, democracy and human rights against a dictator regime in Vietnam. Oh, you hope that, you know, you you can have good. I'm gonna take it, take a picture of the archive. No. Ok. This

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is President Reagan. Ok. So what, what, what is this? No, no, no. You, you, you, it, yeah, that's what I say. Yeah, this, uh, some, uh, just, uh, yeah, just like that. Ok. Next question.

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Can you tell us about your Children? Yeah. What do they do? No, the, the elder is, uh, uh, the first one is a doctor, especially in, uh, psychology. The second one, second one is a dentist and,

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uh, the third one is a teacher. You have an old school. How did you raise your Children? What sort of values did you bring them up on now? So they can clear more clear about the question. What sort of values did you raise your Children with?

01:32:42.669 - 01:33:44.939

I think deep about everything you want to do. I appreciate the people, the country where you are right now. My, my, my doctor agree. They have to study hard and to be a useful people. Three brothers. Yeah.

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You know, he said that, he said that he, even though he haven't know any academic, but he have a lot of experience. Have you ever come back to Vietnam? He said that he never come back to Vietnam but his son come back and he will, he

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is arrest right now in Vietnam because, uh, the government look at his bio and arrest arrest right now. Yeah. No, no, we haven't. 10, 10 months already in jail right now. They say that uh uh he want to overthrow the government that way. What kind of

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traditions does your family celebrate? I celebrate, I think I took like a day. You have two celebration, one, the New Year, Vietnamese, New Year and uh uh American New Year and uh fourth of July know

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he, he said that he do appreciate American uh government and American people uh to, uh let the Vietnamese refugee come over here and uh, he said that uh his family, his son's Children have to study and pay tax taxes. What do you like to do in

01:37:35.979 - 01:38:34.890

your spare time in the right now? He's writing, he want, he, he, he uh the memory for the Children and uh during the war past and he tried to educate them that uh they have to work based on

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uh equality, uh fair and uh love. Great. Do you have any questions? Um He said that he will come over here because he's own, he cannot make clear. So, apologize for that. Well, we appreciate you having us. Thank you

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very much. Yeah, thank you.