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Okay, so today is Wednesday, November the 9th, 2022. My name is Huijun Mao, and I'm here with Ms. Nabila Mansoor for the Houston Asian American Archives at Rice. So, now we're gonna get started.

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And—so first question is when and where were you born? Yeah. So I was born in Toronto, Canada. And, you say when I was born? [HM: Yes.] So 1976, and I was

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the daughter of two immigrants from Pakistan. Cool. Can you describe the neighborhood you grew up in? Sure. So, I was born in—I said Toronto, but it was actually a suburb of Toronto, Mississauga. And reminds me of kind of where I live right

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now here in Houston, in—to some degree. But I grew up in-in a place called Brampton, Ontario. And it had a lot of-a lot of South Asians there—it was a very South Asian heavy city.

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So, went to school, and went to high school, and then went to University of Toronto, all in Toronto, up until I was 22. And it was a-it was a community that had—it was very diverse, very multicultural.

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And so grew up with a lot of people that were very—from a lot of different places. Can you share some, like, memorable-memorable events during childhood that happened? Yeah. I'm trying to think.

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Yeah, it was-it was a great way to-to be raised. You know, again, I mentioned, like, it was really diverse. But one thing that–that was really particular to my neighborhood was it was very diverse with a lot of South Asians.

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So there are people from India and Bangladesh and Pakistan. And we-we all had, you know, a really good time growing up and-and in terms of getting to know each other, and-and grew up together. So we would put on a lot of cultural shows, we'd have cultural day in

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school, we'd wear our, like, outfits to school. So it was-it was really interesting time to be, as Canada was really changing very quickly. So-so yeah, it was-it was really good.

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I'm trying to think of some other memories. We had really good places to eat. But you know, there was always a—and this isn't a good memory, this is really a bad one—there was always streaks of racism.

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So that–that was very prevalent, even when we were growing up from a young age. So, in our neighborhood, even though it was very diverse, you would often have people that would single you out. And if things didn't go well, they would perhaps call you, you know, certain names.

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And so I remember, you know, being bullied at a young age and being called a Paki, that was the word that they would use. And it was really derogatory. And-and this is, like, really young, like I'm talking grade school.

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So it was-it was—even though it was a really diverse neighborhood and maybe because it was changing so fast, there was also, in turn, a lot of-a lot of negativity that kind of came our way, especially folks that kind of look like me. But having said that, those were, you know, few and far between, they weren't the norm.

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But it was just something that-that we had to be really aware of. But it was a place where for the most part, people lived well together. And it was cold.

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I just remember Toronto being very cold in the winter [laughs]. So winters were brutal. And we–we just would—I just remember the really, really cold winters. I appreciate—I know everyone complains about Houston heat, but

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I'm like, “I've seen the other side.” I really appreciate warm weather. Yeah, I'm also a warm weather lover because I'm also from the south. [NM laughs] Can you introduce your family a bit more in detail? Like what were your parents’ occupations?

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Yes. So my mom was a homemaker. And my dad actually ran an ethnic media newspaper and TV show and radio show. So we were really steeped in the Pakistani culture.

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So, those were really big things for us. My—it was really important to my dad that we know we were Canadian, but of Pakistani descent. So, celebrate, like, the Pakistan Independence Day

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parades in downtown. We used to take a lot of trips back home, in the summers. And my mom and my dad would put together these radio shows and TV shows and newspaper.

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And that was really their business: to-to showcase and provide news from back home to the diaspora that was living in Toronto at that time. So, it was a very active childhood.

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We used to go to a lot of parties and events on the weekend, we used to have a whole—a lot of different outfits that we needed to wear because we used to go to so many events, like Pakistani outfits. But it was a fun-fun, you know, way of living.

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My dad also used to bring Pakistani artists from back home and do shows with them. So, like, you know, there'd be big events where people from our community would come and listen to singers and so forth. So that was—it was really exciting to be-to be part of that and-and to, you know, have a

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really good, you know, learning from our culture. So because of that we–we speak very good Urdu, because we grew–grew up speaking it at home. It was really important to my parents that we—they would always say, "You're gonna learn

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English no matter what. But it's more important that you learn Urdu.” So we were only allowed to speak Urdu at home. And when we used to go back home, my dad would make us take lessons with a tutor, so that we can read and write Urdu.

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So, it was very, very important for him to—for us to–to keep those, you know, that part of their culture alive. And-and at the time, we didn't really appreciate it. But I think as you get older, you're like, “Oh,” you know, “that was good,” because

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we're able to converse with our older generation in a way that oftentimes many second generation immigrants cannot. So it seems like your parents really have a big influence on you in terms of, like, your future career choice, and also of your own cultural values.

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Yes, for sure, for sure. You know, it's very, very important, like, always, like, "You're Canadian, it's very important that you're Canadian, but you have to remember you also have this kind of Pakistani background and roots and values, and to bring them with you." So-so

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that was steeped into us from a very, very young age. Do you have any siblings in the family? I do, I do. So we're a family of four kids. And I'm the eldest.

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And then I have a sister who is 18 months younger than me. And then I have a brother who is six years younger than me. And then we had the bonus baby. Yes. You know how some families have that?

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She's 6—17 years younger than me. So it's three girls and a boy. And we're all—actually my brother is not married. But all three of us sisters are married and have kids or

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on—or my youngest now is actually—youngest sibling is actually expecting. So-so I still go back in the summers, I like to spend my summers over there. Because the summers here tend to be a little bit more brutal, and they're very nice and lovely up in Toronto.

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So I'll try to go for two or three weeks with my kids to make sure that they get a chance to spend time with, you know, our family. And usually in the winter, because our winters tend to be a lot milder, my family will come visit me in December during the break, which kind of

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makes sense. So yes, they—they're, you know, active, married, have their own lives. My sister is a teacher, the one that's 18 months younger than me. And my brother is—works in IT from Microsoft.

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And then I have a—my youngest sister is a-an attorney. And so she works for the federal government over there. Do you have any faith or religion while growing up?

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Yeah, so we grew up Muslim. That was also a big part of our growing up. We, you know, used to go to the mosque, and used to go to, like, Islamic school, you know, those are, like, after school programs or weekend

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programs for kids to learn our education, like, our kind of religious education. And so that was a big part of growing up. Again, we didn't really like it when we were there. But I think in hindsight, it was really important, because it gave us the basis

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for–for our learning. But I think I really found my—really grew into my Muslim community, not in Toronto, but moving here to Houston. Where, you know, after I moved and got married and came here—found

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people that-that were doing really good work kind of within the faith community and wanting to get involved and—kind of (?) sparked my interest. And-and really blossomed when I-when I moved here. So in—earlier you were saying you define yourself as

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Canadian with a Pakistan heritage. Is that how-is that how you define your ethnicity, or— Yeah, so things have changed, right? So I'm not in Canada anymore [laughs].

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I moved here. And, you know, I really have become rooted here. And so obviously, Can—you know, I'll always be Canadian at heart, but I certainly want to be involved in where I'm at and make a difference where I'm

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at. So I-I do identify myself as American now because I am American. And, you know, my Pakistani heritage is really important to me. So Pakistani American is something I really identify myself with.

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But I think also, what I found—and this happened when I was here in Houston, I started doing more kind of civic engagement work—is this idea of being Asian American. So, you know, I never saw myself as Asian American [laughs], like, frankly.

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But once I started doing a lot of work within the civic engagement space, and saw that the government kind of has lumped all of us from East Asia and South Asia together, under this, you know, AAPI, Asian American label, at first, it was kind of

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counterintuitive, because I was like, “Well, what do I have in common with people from East Asia? I'm Pakistani, they're Chinese American, or Korean American, what does that got to do with anything?” But once I saw kind of—even though it's it's kind of an arbitrary

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label that's been put on, there is value in it, right? And that value comes with us kind of working together as a community, and-and flexing our political muscle or flexing our social muscle or flexing our civic muscle, right?

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So our numbers are greater if we do it. And even though, it struck me as counterintuitive, there was something about coming from this background, from Asia, that still had a lot of commonality, even

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though on the surface it might not look that way. So, oddly enough, I feel like I–I identify most of the AAPI Asian American now, because I–I–I see the value in it.

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And I think there is something special about coming from that part of the world. And there's something that-that crosses those vast borders that does unite us. And maybe it's–it's-it’s coming from cultures that are rooted in family and

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tradition, and–and-and certain values. But it works for some odd reason [laughs]. And so that's how I think I see myself now. So, after coming to the US, moving to US, becoming US citizens, I

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see you have-you have the culture from the Canada and then you're now encountering with the US culture, and at the same time you also have your Pakistan heritage. Like, how do you reconcile all those cultural influence that are put upon you?

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And do you still observe tradition from-from-from your childhood or from your own culture? Yeah, that's a great question. I think I consider myself really lucky.

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And-and that's becaus, you know, there's so many different places and things that I can kind of feel, like, I can call home, and-and they exert their influence on us. And hopefully, we take just the best of everything and-and make something really new and special.

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And that's kind of what the experiment of America is, right? Like, it's, like, all of us coming together and-and trying to just work through all our messiness and come up with something really beautiful. And-and that's the way I look at Houston.

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And that's the way I look at my background. So, I'm very progressive. I, you know, I come from Canada, but sometimes I'm in Texas, and I'm just like, “What am I doing here?” [laughs] You know?

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When I see—even now, I've been here for many years, but when I see billboards, gun shows and things like that on it. It just still strikes something in my heart like, "This is not—this is just strange." But, you know, there's also

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something about being in Texas that is really welcoming and open. There's something really true about that southern hospitality. That is really—I don't know, it's very welcoming.

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And it's very welcoming to newcomers. And–and so, is it hard? I don't know, I think what it is, it's just trying to-trying to really come up with the best-best mix from all of those

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different underlying parts. So I'm very progressive, and I think that probably has something to do with my Canadian past. I'm—yes, very traditional in the sense that I want to—I want my children to

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also be privy to some of those really cool things that I grew up with, like the food, the clothes, the songs. So-so we do practice that at home. Our—my faith is very important for me—to me, obviously, I–I wear a hijab,

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so, very much involved in my local mosque. And I want my family, as well, to be following in those footsteps. But, you know, there's something really amazing about-about America and Houston. And so I'm very, very much involved in the political

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process here trying to make a difference, trying to make some change. There's a lot I love about–about Texas, there's a lot I love about, you know, the place I live. But I also see that there's a lot of potential here that we're not reaching. And-and to me, I-I almost

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feel like we can get there if we can just kind of get everyone involved. And-and-and to that end, that's kind of been what-what I've been interested in, is how do we bring our communities forward and get them to be—how do we get

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them to activate their citizenship a little bit more? And then how do we—you know, what does that mean? Like, how—if we were to all of us really be involved in our local communities, what would that look like?

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What would that mean for us? And I think what that means for us is that we'd have communities that are really empowered and engaged and active, and part of, you know, everyday—kind of all the levers of power in the city.

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And we can really work towards making this place better, because we know there are problems. We know that, you know, Uvalde wasn't that long ago, you know, children in school, children are dying of guns. We know that abortion is outlawed in the state, now, for all

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intents and purposes. And there's a lot of problems in Texas. But I think they're coming. They're happening not because that's what Texans want. I think it's because just there's a lot of apathy.

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And people are really busy with their everyday lives. And they're trying to put food on the table, they're trying to go to school like you, they're, you know, doing all of their things, they don't have time to really think about it. But what is it that we can do to kind of get folks to

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understand how important it is to become more involved? That's certainly very great, I mean, speech about Texas and Houston and what you're trying to achieve in-in a-in a, you know, place that wasn't really your original home,

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and— Thank you for saying that. I think that is really moving and really insightful for us who are also not original Americans.

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[NM: Mhm.] So, you said you went to University of Toronto as an undergrad? What year was that? Um, I'm very old [laughs].

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So I went—I should know this. I—so, I graduated in ’98. So I started ’95 and graduated in ’98. So thinking back to your undergrad, college life, what were some, like,

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defining moments that you had that have influence on your future career? Yeah, you know, undergrad was really busy. I-I almost feel like my undergrad I was—I–I wish I

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could go back and talk to myself, because I actually wasn't very involved in undergrad. I guess most people do find their–their (?) thing, but I was so interested and worried about getting good grades and stuff that I was really concentrating on my work. And I wasn't that involved in student organizations other than here and there.

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So, my undergrad was kind of just—I did my four years and three years. I was trying to get all my coursework done and–and just get through it. So, I had really good time with my friends, but not anything that really told me or gave me an inkling of what I wanted to

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do. I knew I wanted to go to law school, kind of—that was my big, you know, kind of big picture. But it was more, like, just, you have to do something after undergrad. So I was just—that’s what I was gonna do.

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So, I look back at that kind of time and I'm like, “I should’ve been more thoughtful and intentional,” but in reality, I just wasn't. And-and I hope that other students weren't like me, like I'm—you know, I work with a lot of young students now and I’m like, “We need to take advantage

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of this.” But–but in all reality, when I was in undergrad, I was really just concerned about making sure that my grades were good, and that I was trying to get through school and-and so forth. So yeah.

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It was a good time, but I don't think it was a pivotal time. I really—I think my–my calling and all of that happened in Houston. So, which law school did you go? And—

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Y-Yeah, yeah. So, after I graduated from college, I–I did—I met my husband—well, I met him while I was in college. But I got married and moved to Houston

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with him. He was from Houston. And–and we decided to live here, because he had a job and I didn't [laughs]. And-and then when I came here, I applied to law school and ended up

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going to University of Houston Law Center. And I think that's when I really started meeting a whole new group of people. Did not like Houston in the beginning, I was very homesick that first year. I remember crying myself to sleep at night, because I'm ready to go back home.

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But, you know, when you don't have friends, and you don't know anybody, it can be very lonely. But once you start going to school and start making friends and start meeting people, it changes, right? So, once I started getting to know the community here, and—I

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guess really found my tribe, right, like found folks that were like me. All of a sudden, this became a really exciting place to be. And I think in law school, I really decided that whatever I was going to prac–practice it was going to be in the nonprofit realm.

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And so, I did my summers at nonprofits like Lone Star Legal Aid. I think they were called something else when I was there. But, you know, I did—I–I worked at nonprofits, I did work at some—one summer

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I did spend at a—at a law firm. But I knew that that was where I wanted to be. And then, once I graduated from law school, I had-I had my first daughter.

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And so I really didn't practice law for very long. I took some time off. And that's when I really, you know—I was at home with my kids, I wasn't working. I had two kids back to back.

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And at that point I really wanted to get involved in-in the community. And so, in the beginning, it kind of looked like just getting involved in my kids’ school, on the PTA or whatever.

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And then from there, learning about, like, “Oh, what's the precinct chair? Like, what does that mean?” And I remember it was the Obama election, the first one, and I had just become a citizen at that point.

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So, I had never voted before in America, not back home. But here, I hadn't voted, I couldn't. I became a citizen. I wanted to—I got really excited about the election and

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decided to cast my vote, and then, that, "Oh, you should get involved in the Democratic Party." "Well, I don't know how to get involved the Democratic Party. Okay, what is that?" You know, and then you kind of just learn from, you know, can—what is it we can do?

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And then-and then they get you [laughs], and then you get involved and then you-you can get really involved and I–and I really found that I wanted to make a difference. And I'm always kind of proud—like now there's a lot of people in my community that

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are involved in politics. But when I was getting involved in politics, there were not a lot of people. They weren't a lot of Democrats at all. So I live in Fort Bend County.

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I live in a city called Sugar Land. Has a very, very high Asian American population. And—but when I was getting involved in 2012, like in the—really in party politics, there weren't that many Asians involved.

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There weren't that many people involved, because no one really thought Democrats could win. And I really got to know some people. And that was kind of my political awakening, was law school, and then taking some time off and still wanting to do something,

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even though I was at home, and-and getting involved. It's good to hear about your whole process of realizing what you want to do in the end. It’s very enlightening, I think to later generations as well.

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So I see that you've been—you've had working in the MGH Texas chapter before. Can you describe your experience working in that? And what does that look like?

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Yeah, so-so I was—my-my daughter went to a-an Islamic school here. It was a-it was a faith based school. Our—my daughter—all my kids, not just my eldest, all of them went to this school called Elim Academy.

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It's out on I-10 and—I-10 Memorial area. And I was on the board for that school. And my—one of our board members, my colleague, his name is AJ Durrani, he was starting a chapter here in Texas,

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for EMGAGE. And I didn't know what EMGAGE was. And then he explained to me that it was an organization that was working to empower Muslim Americans. And I had been, you know, taking now quite a few years off.

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And, you know, practiced a little bit of law in between there, here and there, but really hadn't done anything full time. And was very interested in politics anyways, it-it just seemed like the best fit. So, you know, talk to AJ and talk to some other

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people, and thought this is a really good project to get involved in. Because just—there's just wasn't anything being done like that, especially in the Muslim American space, where there was a concerted effort to try to get people to—and we were (c)(3) back then—to-to

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find out about voting, registering to vote, trying to make sure that they knew that elections were happening, going to mosques and doing voter registration drives, and just doing political education, right?

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Like explaining what is a primary, what is a— what does a general election look like? So that was really great. That was–that was my first job, and I don't think I really knew what I was doing in the beginning. But we would just do stuff, we were just like, “Oh, let's do a candidate

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forum. We'll just invite all the candidates, invite our community and see how it goes.” And when we invited them, so many candidates came, and so many people came. And so we just did it. And then we're like, “Okay, maybe we shouldn't invite like 50 candidates next

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time. Maybe we should like kind of do it a little bit more differently. And invite this many candidates from this”—you know, “these races that are important. And then maybe we can get our young people to ans—ask them questions at this candidate forum. There's a Houston City Council race happening.

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Let's invite all the mayoral candidates and have our young community members—have them ask questions that are important to them because they're going to be living in the city.” So it was–it was really fun, exciting, it was launching a new group right off the ground.

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And we didn't really have a lot of money [laughs]. We didn't have a lot of resources. But I think we–we made a-a big dent, we were able to do a youth leadership program. And–and take college-aged students and-and

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help them become more civically engaged. We were able to register—like just doing, like, a weekly voter registration drive on a Friday, or like, the whole year, or doing a—our Eid prayers, which is our big celebration.

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We were really able to make a difference. And so really proud of my time there. And then we grew—we had a C three, we had like a nonpartisan wing, and we had a PAC and then we were able to even do 501(c)(4) work, which is partisan

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advocacy, and got to know a lot of other activists on the ground and–and work with them. So what are the members of EMGAGE mode primarily comprise of and are they all, like, Muslim Americans?

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Yeah, so the way we looked at it, we–we–we use the terminology Massa, Muslim, Arab, South Asians. That was kind of our target, you know, audience and we were able to really make a difference here in

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Houston because there is such a huge community. And then we grew to Texas. So we have a a chapter in Austin and Dallas as well. ‘Cause that's really primarily where the Massa community resides.

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And-and really just making sure that they're-they're using their-their power in-in numbers to make a difference in an election. And the Massa community has grown in such a way that they can really exert influence in certain areas and pockets where they-they live.

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So making sure that they know about that and trying to get candidates to run, or support candidates in that community. Those were some of the things that we were doing. Have EMGAGE like ever collaborated with other organizations, like in

00:30:44.190 - 00:30:52.930

representing the voice of the–the ethnic groups? And then what— Yeah, it was very important to us that we work in collaboration with other groups, especially Asian American groups.

00:30:53.770 - 00:31:11.670

So, it was during that time that we started ECI, which is the Empowering Community— Communities Initiative. Worked together with—it was a table basically or collaborative with the other Asian American organizations in the city, such as OCA Greater Houston,

00:31:11.990 - 00:31:31.150

Chinese Community Center, BPSOS, VN teamwork, JCL of the Japanese American Citizens League. We worked with an umbrella group called Houston In Action. And kind of all of the members that-that are part of that particular group.

00:31:32.410 - 00:31:51.380

So we-we did-we did a lot in collaboration with them. And that could be in the form of candidate forms, like I mentioned, that could be in the form of block walking field campaigns, phone banking, text banking, anything that we could do together,

00:31:51.880 - 00:32:05.140

to make sure that our community members knew that, you know, there were important elections coming along. We were very active in the census during 2020. And then once COVID hit, it really forced us to

00:32:06.480 - 00:32:26.530

rethink our programming, because all of a sudden, we couldn't go out the way we used to. So we–we started-started thinking about really creative ways that we could get the word out to the community and really got involved in COVID–COVID vaccine campaign as well, to ensure that our community members knew, you know, where to

00:32:26.530 - 00:32:41.950

get a vaccine and how to get it and the importance of it and kind of dispel some of the misinformation that was going out. Because, you know, misinformation is a big problem in the Asian American community. In, you know, I know in East Asian communities it's—Chinese comunities it’s the

00:32:41.950 - 00:32:55.850

WeChat, with us it's WhatsApp, you know, WhatsApp, you can just forward all this stuff. And some of it is not good information. So working with-with other groups to make sure that we were getting the right information out or dispelling misinformation that was coming out.

00:32:58.190 - 00:33:16.650

Yeah, well, that's a big—a lot of work. And I'm really glad that you're still—pandemic doesn't like have—doesn't hinder your progress on representing the, helping the ethnic group. And-and then so after EMGAGE you go—I think you—I see that you're

00:33:16.730 - 00:33:31.520

also involved in ACI, right? ACI’s 2020 census initiative. [NM: Yes.] Can you introduce about that and what is that about? Yeah-yeah, and that was really—I mentioned it earlier, it was trying to make sure that the

00:33:31.520 - 00:33:48.450

Asian American community—we were reaching out to all the trusted-trusted messengers within the Asian American community and make sure that their–their particular constituencies knew about census, because it was very imperative that all of us take part in the census.

00:33:48.450 - 00:34:03.400

And if you remember, 2020 was a—it was–was a really interesting year. We had the pandemic, we had the census, and we had a big election going on. Right? It was like a huge one. And if you remember, Trump was the president.

00:34:04.780 - 00:34:23.000

And he was really spreading a lot of anti-Asian hate, and he's calling it the "China virus," the hate crimes against Asians were going up. And there was lots of threats going on about how possibly the census could be used against our communities.

00:34:23.960 - 00:34:35.990

There was a real weaponization of the census. So, people were scared. “You're asking me to answer all of these questions, and I'm not here legally, I'm here illegally or I'm a refugee.

00:34:37.210 - 00:34:50.120

What if this information is used against me? What if it's used to deport me? Or what if it's not used to deport me, but it's used to deport my uncle who's living in my house? Who is—overstayed his visa?” You know, whatever, the-the

00:34:50.310 - 00:35:06.140

possibilities were endless, right? So there was a real hesitancy in Asian American community to answer the-the questions. Of course, the census, that information is confidential and is not used against the residents.

00:35:06.260 - 00:35:24.170

And if whether you're a citizen or not a citizen, everyone needs to answer the census. So, a lot of the members of the Asian American community are new, maybe they just came—you know, the last time the census happened was 10 years ago. So they weren't here for the last census, they have no idea what it

00:35:24.170 - 00:35:42.540

is. It might not be in the language that they're comfortable with. Maybe they don't speak English, you know, they-they don't write English. How do we make sure that our community members are answering the census, responding to it, and are taking part in it in a way that will allow us to be

00:35:43.960 - 00:35:57.690

counted, you know, we want everyone to count. And that includes everyone from every community. And so doing outreach work within the Asian American communities, meeting with faith leaders, community leaders, civic organizations,

00:35:59.500 - 00:36:18.690

convincing them to-to include census messaging in their emails, or their social media, you know, doing census pledge cards at community events and fairs, getting the word out that the census is not something to be scared at. All in the midst of a pandemic, where

00:36:19.450 - 00:36:36.940

we weren't really comfortable going outside in big crowds, because the vaccine wasn't there yet. So it was an interesting time [laughs]. But we came up with really, really creative ways to deal with it. Okay, so we were just talking about the census initiative, and you're talking

00:36:38.110 - 00:36:53.900

about—you've devised many innovative ways to get people know about the census, and then-and then urged them to participate in it, so that they're not afraid—so that they–they are not afraid of it. Right?

00:36:54.920 - 00:37:10.540

Yeah. And it was really just making sure that we had messaging that worked with each particular community. So–so again, working with the community leaders, working with the ethnic media landscape, just trying to get the word out.

00:37:11.060 - 00:37:27.420

And so, it was—we had to be a little bit more creative in terms of how we got-got the word out. For example, there were long lines at food banks, and those food banks and areas that were in heavily

00:37:31.010 - 00:37:46.770

AAPI areas, Asian American areas, we would kind of be there and give out, you know, census literature. We were just everywhere that we needed to be [laughs] to try to find out how we can, how we can utilize this particular moment to make sure we were getting as much information

00:37:46.830 - 00:37:58.360

out to our community as possible. And to that end, I think we—I mean, obviously, we probably didn't hit 100%, or anything. But we-we did make a difference.

00:37:58.480 - 00:38:13.460

Because I know we were very active in Fort Bend, because Fort Bend has a really high AAPI population. And we had the highest response rate for the census in-in the state of Texas. And I'm sure it had a lot to do with the efforts that some of our organizations that

00:38:13.460 - 00:38:27.520

were doing the work on the ground and making sure that people knew about-about it had. So seems like it's really, like, a big collaborations between a lot of organizations and communities.

00:38:27.690 - 00:38:44.910

And I was wondering, in what areas have you collaborated with other organizations? And what-what organizations are them—or what communities are them? Yeah, I mean, some of the same ones I mentioned before, you know, it's working with

00:38:45.070 - 00:39:02.010

the Asian American groups. But even the–the Latinx and Black groups through Houston-in-Action or work, I know we—because it was a pandemic, we even utilized phone banking, the way we do during elections, calling on,

00:39:02.730 - 00:39:20.790

you know, seniors, checking if they knew—if they were—that they were okay, checking it out if they were doing okay during the pandemic. And then also asking, “Have you heard about the census?” and helping them complete the census. So, it was–it was really just trying to use all the tools in the toolbox that we

00:39:20.790 - 00:39:40.040

had to make sure that our communities knew, and working in collaboration with a lot of the other groups through–through umbrella organizations like Houston-in-Action, ACI, places like that, where we could all come together, exchange ideas as to what it is we're doing, talk about our best practices, and

00:39:40.240 - 00:39:56.200

then work together if we have to, or learn from each other at least on what works best in each community. So how big is a support team you have in initi–in doing for the—working for the Census initiative?

00:39:56.970 - 00:40:17.100

Yeah, we had a couple of people, you know, three or four, but a lot of it was just volunteer power, and then working with other organizations We’re able to oftentimes get, you know, at least four or five people to come out to an event and man a table or get on the radio and talk to,

00:40:17.740 - 00:40:37.200

you know, the community. So, it was really just—that there would just be three people, four people on staff. Wow, that is very impressive work that four people have done. Yeah, I mean, we—it wasn't just us, it was like a lot of other organizations in Houston.

00:40:37.490 - 00:40:54.740

But all of us kind of collectively were able to make a difference. So after the—I see on–on your—I see on your in-info that after the EMGAGE, you go on to work for Rise AAPI?

00:40:55.800 - 00:41:08.900

And yeah—so yeah, thank you for asking. So I was with EMGAGE for many number of years. And, you know, sometimes you get to a point where you want to try something different [laughs]. You've been doing it for a while.

00:41:09.410 - 00:41:28.230

And-and because of my work on the ground with other Asian American organizations, I really got to know the other activist organizers in the city, got involved with a couple of people that were talking about starting a 501(c)(4).

00:41:28.230 - 00:41:44.360

Now a 501(c)(4) is really different than a (c)(3). 501(c)(3) is a nonpartisan nonprofit. But a 501(c)(4) is a nonprofit but it can be partisan. By being part—and by being partisan, what I mean to say is, they can actually

00:41:44.430 - 00:41:56.530

advocate for—politically, and take-and take sides, right? So they can advocate for progressives, or they could advocate for Republicans, they could advocate for whoever.

00:41:57.400 - 00:42:11.910

But I was very much involved with making sure that I wanted to see a change, I wanted to register a voter, and then I wanted to tell them who to vote for [laughs]. I didn't want to just stop at the voter registration part. And that was very appealing to me.

00:42:12.420 - 00:42:26.940

And so there were a group of organizers that got together. There is a group in downtown D–in–I'm sorry–in DC, called AAPI Victory Alliance. And they're working to empower Asian Americans really all across the country.

00:42:27.440 - 00:42:44.480

And Texas was in their—on their radar, because Texas has one of the highest populations of AAPI's in the country. And in fact, we have the fastest growing AAPI population here in Texas.

00:42:45.070 - 00:43:00.610

And out of all the ethnicities happening, that reside in Texas, AAPI's are the fastest growing racial demographic. And so we make up almost 6% of the population right now. But we're growing really quickly.

00:43:01.450 - 00:43:21.680

And we're going to be 10% of the population in, you know, 10 years or so. What do we do now, in this moment, to make sure that our Asian American community is empowered? What do we do now to make sure that our Asian American communities’ are involved, and taking part in turning

00:43:21.680 - 00:43:39.220

Texas blue and making it more progressive? And that was something that was so appealing to me, right? Like to–coming from really–a (c)(3), which is a nonpartisan background. I know how important it is, but I know there are certain limitations.

00:43:39.720 - 00:43:57.980

And to have the freedom to be able to advocate aggressively for progressive policies was so liberating for me. And so, after meeting some of the people that were originally, part of this idea of starting Rise AAPI,

00:43:59.150 - 00:44:12.380

really wanted to be a part of it. And now, one thing led to another, and we launched in June. And this is a first election cycle. And we have a couple of things we want to do.

00:44:13.580 - 00:44:32.910

We want to make sure that we have the right narrative in place within the Asian American community, such that our community members are thinking in a progressive manner. So–so for example, this election cycle, we worked with

00:44:33.640 - 00:44:51.260

the very vibrant ethnic media landscape here in Texas. So we worked with them to make sure that we had progressive ads out, telling our messaging on why it's important to vote for Democratic candidates, but in messaging that is relevant and resonant to those

00:44:51.260 - 00:45:09.470

communities. So what works in the Vietnamese communities might not necessarily work in the Pakistani community, might not necessarily work in the Korean community, right? So, to have an understanding of who is actually doing this work on the ground, and then working with them to come up with content

00:45:09.780 - 00:45:27.000

that would appeal to our particular sub ethnicities and make them wanting to vote. So we're not telling them, “Oh, there's just an election around the corner,” we're saying “There's an election around the corner, and this is why you should vote for this person.” We wanted to make sure that our Asian American

00:45:27.000 - 00:45:46.820

candidate candidates were uplifted and supported. There were a record number of AAPI candidates running in this particular election cycle. We had 20—we had 28 or 29, which—we had—just writing this down this morning, so give me just one second.

00:45:48.430 - 00:46:07.150

I think we had 28 candidates running that were AAPI in this particular election cycle, and 17 of them have won. One of them is in a runoff. Z-Z-Zohaib Qadri out in Austin will now be in a runoff for

00:46:07.150 - 00:46:20.470

city council election. And we have one Asian American candidate in Fort Bend County who is running for judge, but it hasn't been called yet. It's, like, a difference of like 50 votes. So we haven't called that election yet, but it's looking like he's leading.

00:46:21.330 - 00:46:37.820

So we'll have 18 candidates that will win elections in Texas. And this is with our communities, just doing this work on the ground, on their own, in their own silos. There really hasn't been an effort to collaborate or have conversations between the

00:46:37.820 - 00:46:55.030

different sub ethnicities in our communities. There hasn't really been any effort at a strategy that looks towards collaborative-collaboratively working together to make sure our communities come out. And-and really work towards figuring

00:46:55.670 - 00:47:16.060

out how best we-we do this-this organizing work that's so important. So-so to that end, we're very excited, it was our first election cycle, you know, we got the—we've made a (c)(4) table, where we've invited the Asian American organizations that are doing this work on the ground in the partisan space

00:47:16.480 - 00:47:30.600

to come together and meet with each other like every two months or so, and talk about what they're doing. And talk about the-the needs that need to be filled and the gaps where we can come in and help. So that's kind of one aspect of it.

00:47:31.130 - 00:47:47.110

We're working on a voter file that will be able to better identify our community members, it's a big issue in the Asian American community. The voter files that–that most of the-the political groups use is not very good at identifying Asian Americans, if they even do identify them,

00:47:47.620 - 00:48:00.620

oftentimes are misidentified. So we-we don't really know how many Asian Americans there are other than from the census, but we don't have no way of contacting them. So I think it's important that us, as Asian Americans start doing that work,

00:48:00.660 - 00:48:14.760

because frankly, no one else will. And so we need to start working on making sure we have a voter file that identifies our our groups, and then hopefully even identifies what first generation, second generation is, right? Because there's a big difference from immigrants that are coming

00:48:14.970 - 00:48:28.970

straight from-from these countries back home, and people that were born here and raised here. And that messaging would look different to those two groups, very possibly–possibly based on their age and where they were born. So-so that's all information.

00:48:28.970 - 00:48:48.320

That's all stuff that-that needs to be done, and hasn't been done in Texas, and something that we think we can come in and-and help and-and really do a landscape analysis of what the Asian American community, you know, looks like. We want to support our Asian American candidates, we want to

00:48:48.540 - 00:49:03.070

have a recruit-and-run program at some point, we're—not right now, but at some point, you know, where we want Asian Americans to run at every level of political office. And if there isn't one, we want to be able to find them, train them and get them

00:49:03.520 - 00:49:16.240

in there—into the pipeline. So that's probably not gonna happen in 2023, but we're hoping it'll happen in 2024. We have some big elections coming up next year. The Houston mayoral election is a big one, I think all eyes are going to be on that

00:49:16.330 - 00:49:30.200

particular race. And what does that mean for the Asian American community in Houston? Are there AAPI candidates running? And if not, who are the ones that are running that are most amenable and listening to our community's concerns?

00:49:30.860 - 00:49:49.170

So, you know, a lot of other programs I can go on, you know, some of the other things we're doing, but that is really kind of the-the goal of our organization, is to empower our community, to educate our community, and to turn Texas blue, finally [laughs].

00:49:51.900 - 00:50:04.890

Yeah, that's a very ambitious goal. And I can see you've done a lot of things. You—and you really trying to do more things. And at the same time, I was wondering, like, how big a support team you have in having

00:50:05.850 - 00:50:21.320

all those goals standing in front of you. Yeah, so we, you know, brand new organization. So, it's back to just me right now [laughs]. So we have a volunteer base, we have a really active board membership.

00:50:23.180 - 00:50:40.160

With—that is really comprised of the community leaders as well as the elected officials, right? So, all of the AAPI elected officials are part of our advisory board, and we just got some new ones in. So, we are going to have two new Asian Americans joining the Texas legislative

00:50:40.200 - 00:50:49.870

body. They just won yesterday, we had a big election yesterday. So we're going to have Dr. Suleman Lalani, here in Houston and Dr. Salman Bhojani out in Dallas.

00:50:51.170 - 00:51:09.500

Newest members of the AAPI caucus, Gene–representative Gene Wu, representative Hubert Vo are on our advisory committee. We won big in San Antonio with county judge Peter Sakai, Japanese American, he is now the county judge of San Antonio—I'm

00:51:10.150 - 00:51:25.140

sorry, of the county. And we have KP George, who won re-election out in Fort Bend County, who is also on our advisory board. So-so we're in touch with them and we hire consultants when we need it, you know, to help us do some of this work.

00:51:25.340 - 00:51:44.200

And we look to our volunteers and our board members to help us put together some of this and, you know, again, it was our first election cycle. So we wanted to make sure that we–our goals were doable, achievable. But we want to get to the point where we want a goal to be, like, we're gonna increase

00:51:45.050 - 00:52:04.960

Asian American turnout by 2% this year in this election, and be able to actually work towards that. So–so we have big plans. And I think as our community grows, this work will be more and more important. So what are the members of Rise AAPI primary comprised of?

00:52:05.290 - 00:52:22.530

Are there people like outside of the communities and—but want to join? That's-that's a really great question. You know, so I mentioned, like, we, you know, we're right now a staff of one, but we we've had fellows and student

00:52:22.530 - 00:52:38.990

interns from other organizations. We had a really wonderful fellow named Lauren Nguyen from PIVOT, and that's a Vietnamese group. She was with us until yesterday, until, like, Election Day. And then one of our—my superstar volunteers, her name is Wendy Wilkinson,

00:52:39.290 - 00:52:55.930

she helps me run my social media. She's a American white woman, and she just sees the importance of this work. So, our membership crosses all, you know, diversities and backgrounds. And-and what I'm very proud of is

00:52:56.050 - 00:53:11.940

our board. You know, like I mentioned, the AAPI community is really huge, right? It covers a lot of different ethnicities. And we wanted my board, who I really look to for advice and help, to come from all of those different ethnicities.

00:53:13.340 - 00:53:25.610

So, we have a lot of members of the community, and I'm sure some of them are going to be part of this project as well, that have been doing this work for a very, very long time. They're really the community leaders.

00:53:26.990 - 00:53:39.140

Or they're really active, young activists that are doing this work right now and are kind of at the forefront of organizing. So, we have Rogene Calvert. She's our board chair.

00:53:39.770 - 00:53:52.780

Mustafa Tameez, he's on our finance council and I'm just—off the top of my head, I'm just telling you the folks that are involved. David Lee, he was a senior advisor to the Beto campaign. He is on our finance council.

00:53:54.360 - 00:54:10.110

Nicolette Ardiente, a young Filipino American out in San Antonio. Ashley Cheng out in Austin, very—you know, doing really great work with Asian Texans for justice. You know—who else?

00:54:10.240 - 00:54:26.910

We have a whole host, I'm just trying to think off the top–Gordon Quan, the first Asian American city councilman. Varun Nikore from AAPI Victory Alliance also sits on our board, to make sure that the connection is with us and Victory Alliance stays.

00:54:28.210 - 00:54:45.190

AJ Durrani, my-my old friend from-from EMGAGE is on our board. Swati Joshi, she's with a group called Desi Blue. And she is on our board as well. So we-we kind of cover, like, you know, Korean, you know,

00:54:46.170 - 00:55:02.130

Chinese, Taiwanese–Helen Shih very active, grassroot work, she's on our board. You know, the main players that have been doing this work for a long time, sit on our board and-and help us kind of navigate how it is best to do this work.

00:55:03.280 - 00:55:18.280

And so, they've been a really wonderful resource for–for us as we're—we've launched this organization. Well, it was really amazing to hear about all those people, like, coming from everywhere and joining the Rise AAPI.

00:55:18.470 - 00:55:27.940

And I'm really hoping that we will see big progress being made in the future. Thank you. Thank you. We'll have to get you involved too. Sure. Sure.

00:55:29.140 - 00:55:41.750

And I see that you're also a board member of the Fort Bend ISD. Is it like an elected position? Or— No, I'm sorry, that was–it’s self organized, it’s the Fort Bend LID.

00:55:42.150 - 00:55:55.110

So the LID board is just a local government entity. It is called the Levee Improvement District. And it is an appointed position, so I was appointed by the county commissioner here in Fort Bend.

00:55:55.690 - 00:56:14.890

And it has to do with the levees and parks in your particular community. So, it's an important job, especially in Houston, because we live in Houston, and we tend to flood [laughs]. And so-so it's been really interesting, because you have to kind of use a different part of your brain than the stuff that I'm used to

00:56:15.160 - 00:56:29.790

using and kind of some of the organizing work that I-I do. But it's-it's been really rewarding to be able to take part in maintaining the levee system in your local communities, and getting to know a lot of engineers [laughs] and different books.

00:56:30.830 - 00:56:43.820

But-but yeah, it's-it’s-it's something I enjoy. Oh, so you're still doing the-the-the—that kind of work right now beside Rise AAPI? Yes, it's a volunteer position.

00:56:44.460 - 00:57:02.180

And it's just something I like to do to be—take part in our kind of local, you know, local government, really on the granular level, ‘cause this is stuff that's very neighborhood specific, right? Each neighborhood is in charge of their own levees, at least in Fort Bend.

00:57:02.210 - 00:57:21.600

That's how we do it. And so now we've seen a lot of the things you have accomplished and going to acc–accomplish, and in your opinion, how well do you think the younger generation Asian Americans are prepared for, like, political

00:57:21.600 - 00:57:29.420

involvement or political awareness? So I love young people. I work with a lot of young people. And I get very excited when I'm around young people.

00:57:31.270 - 00:57:46.930

So, one thing—I don't know if I put that in that bio, but I'm also the president of the Asian American Democrats of Texas, which is the only officially recognized Asian American group by the Texas Democratic Party.

00:57:47.860 - 00:58:06.630

And-and we, you know, we've been doing this work for a while. But the folks that really get me excited are the young people that want to get involved. And so, I've had a chance to work with a lot of young people here in Houston. And they're so excited, they're so good

00:58:06.860 - 00:58:22.990

at what they do, they have such an understanding on how to use social media, much more better than I would ever do it. And, you know, we have this young man, David Nguyen, Vietnamese American, and we—Rohit

00:58:24.130 - 00:58:40.000

Shajan, Indian American, and myself, and we put together this rally for Beto in the matter of, like, a week, you know, this past election cycle. And it was not easy doing all that work. But to see them kind of take that step forward and get involved

00:58:40.930 - 00:58:56.530

has been really heartening and exciting. And-and I think, you know, I think the future is in good hands [laughs]. When I see young people, I see the excitement, and I see how committed they are, and what a understanding of the political process they have, in a way that I

00:58:56.530 - 00:59:08.080

never had when I was that age. So, it makes me really, really, really happy. So are you involved in, like, offering lectures or workshops for younger generations?

00:59:09.320 - 00:59:24.600

Oh, good question. So AADT, we-we are going to be doing certain things in the—you know, now that this election cycle is over, we want to do, like, some trainings like precinct chair trainings, like getting young people to get involved in their local areas and their neighborhoods.

00:59:26.240 - 00:59:41.360

And, you know, eventually we-we probably will do some kind of recruit-and-run workshops, like how to be a candidate on-on folks trying to think that maybe they're interested in it, maybe they thought had some interest, but they don't know where to start.

00:59:42.420 - 00:59:57.880

So, we have-we have some things planned in the work–works, but we can certainly—any young person that is interested in getting involved, we can certainly point them to the right direction, because we have a lot of contacts with other organizations that are doing this type of work on the ground.

01:00:00.910 - 01:00:14.070

Um, so what is your view of Asian American Studies in higher education and Texas K-12 curriculum? Yeah, I mean, that's something really close to my heart. I haven't been as involved in it as much as I like to.

01:00:14.530 - 01:00:32.180

But I would—but there is a movement afoot to try to make Asian American Studies part of the curriculum for K-12. And-and that just seems like a no brainer to me. I mean, if we learned about all of this other stuff,

01:00:32.840 - 01:00:50.530

and we know that Asian Americans have made so many, you know, important-important contributions to history, we know about the Japanese internment—like all of those things, those should be part of our-our Asian American curric—part of our regular curriculum.

01:00:51.280 - 01:01:10.540

I think it's an uphill fight, but certainly one worth fighting for. Same with, you know, higher ed Asian American studies. One thing I realized is, it's up to us to-to honor our own past, it's up to us to elevate our studies, it's up to us to make sure

01:01:10.620 - 01:01:28.360

that we are memorializing our-our community members, our-our events, our passage of time, because no one else is going to do that. And so that's why I'm so excited about this project that you are involved with. And I think it's really important, as we see the-the face of America

01:01:28.360 - 01:01:44.490

changing, that we have a better grasp and understanding of the many beautiful components of it. And-and so it's imperative that we do this. I think Houston is really a microcosm of what the future of America is

01:01:44.490 - 01:01:58.970

going to look like. There's still a lot of places where you will not find the type of diversity you have here. So it's important that we get it right in places like Houston and places like Harris County and Fort Bend County, because if we can get it right here, then I think we have a

01:01:58.970 - 01:02:15.870

good chance of getting it right in the future. Um, so back to the Asian American Democrats of Texas, I think you're the president of AADT. And would you like to talk more about your role in AADT, and

01:02:15.870 - 01:02:33.000

some other activities or things—campaigns you're involved in? Yeah, I mean, the Asian American Democrats of Texas, something I'm really proud of, it's the oldest organization that kind of did this political work with Asian Americans at a time where I can't even imagine what made

01:02:33.000 - 01:02:51.820

them want to do this. And-and so I want to carry that legacy on. So, you know, like I mentioned, we are the officially recognized caucus. So, whoever is the president and vice president actually gets to sit on the SDC, which is the—SDC, what does that

01:02:52.030 - 01:03:08.710

stand for—the Executive Committee of the Texas Democratic Party. So it comes with some, you know, actual influence within the party. It's-it’s-it's an important position. We advocated and wanted a seat on the DNC for many years.

01:03:08.880 - 01:03:22.480

The AADT argue that the Asian Americans from Texas should have a seat on the DNC. There's a whole contingent of Texas that goes to the Democratic National Committee. And we said we wanted a seat. There wasn't an Asian American seat, we fought for it and we fought for it and we

01:03:22.480 - 01:03:38.720

finally got it. So Ashley Chang is our current DNC member, representing the Asian Americans. But that happened because we really argued and said that this the time is now to have it in structure of TDP.

01:03:39.580 - 01:03:55.150

So, it goes back to making sure that our communities are feeling empowered, and-and-and are having their voice heard. We-we asked the TDP to hire an Asian American outreach coordinator. And we raised some funding for that.

01:03:55.150 - 01:04:08.630

And we were able to do that. So the TDP hired a full time Asian American outreach coordinator. They wouldn't have done that if-if we hadn't been involved, trying to push them to make that change. So all of these things happen because you keep pushing

01:04:08.670 - 01:04:27.330

and arguing and being annoying [laughs] until they give in, right. And if we want to make sure that-that our voices are heard, we have to have the institutions in place, and Asian American Democrats of Texas is one of those institutions. I'm going to tell you when it was created, I should know this off the top

01:04:27.400 - 01:04:46.540

of my head, but it is something that was really visionary by the original—1990, it was founded in 1990 by Robert Gee, Gordon Quan, Mark Lee, and Judy Lee. And they were just four people here in Houston that said, “Hey, we want to make sure

01:04:46.540 - 01:05:05.210

that Democrats know that Asians are here and that they have a voice.” And so, to that end, it's-it’s been a really exciting process to be–become part of that-that project, right. And so we're in constant communication with our

01:05:05.270 - 01:05:22.420

partners of TDP, making sure that Asian Americans are part of the conversation. And we have quite a long list. Again, we work with Asian American candidates. We did a Beto rally for Asian Americans this year in Houston.

01:05:23.520 - 01:05:34.100

And that was very exciting. There was no Asian American Rally that Beto was doing. He had done a Latinx one, he had done a rally with the Black community, but not with the Asian American community.

01:05:34.560 - 01:05:48.950

So we pushed and pushed and pushed and we were able to make that happen. And that's really important, because we want Beto to know, you know, if he had won for governor, that there is an Asian American community here, and they need to be part of your thinking moving forward.

01:05:49.500 - 01:06:07.710

So-so that's kind of the work that-that we've been doing. We-we work to make sure that we have more Asian American democratic precinct chairs, that our community members know about our, you know, our elections and our voting, and doing that-that type of stuff.

01:06:07.830 - 01:06:28.180

So, we have chapters in San Antonio, in Austin, in Dallas, in North–North Texas, you call it, and Houston. So you mentioned a lot about communities, AAPI communities and Asian American communities. I was wondering if you have said, like, a certain

01:06:29.170 - 01:06:44.560

definition for the communities you're referring to? Like is it the communities in Sugarland, or in Fort Bend County, or maybe some other definitions you refer to? Yeah, so depending on what you talk about—but actually, both of them, both AADT and Rise

01:06:44.590 - 01:06:59.070

API, which I'm involved with, are both Texas based. It's just that—if I sound a little Houston centric, I think it's just because a lot of the work has been done in Houston, and I'm based in Houston. But we are Texas wide, and we have a Texas lens, because we understand that-that if

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we want to make some change, we have to activate all of those areas. We're more active in the cities, because Asian Americans tend to be there more. But we do believe that there are pockets of Asian Americans in rural areas of Texas. It goes back to that voter file that we're working on, and we want to make sure we're

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able to find those rural pockets of Asian Americans that live in the Rio Grande Valley or live in some rural part of West Texas, so that we can get the messaging to them, and really start making sure that they are voting in a way that we believe is best for us, and-and-and-and

01:07:37.100 - 01:07:55.500

best for everyone that lives in Texas. And do you think yourself as a woman engaging in politics have bring you, like, different perspectives in political involvement and political awareness? Oh, yeah, I mean, being a woman, it's-it's a whole ‘nother story [laughs].

01:07:55.710 - 01:08:12.320

I mean, it's just, you know, you oftentimes will find yourself in very male heavy spaces, and that's true for for politics as well. But what I will find is that women are the ones who get stuff done [laughs]. Like-like the women or—the women AAPI community activists that I meet, they're the

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ones who are actually knocking on doors and making the calls and doing the work. And-and I just think that women have a really good—maybe because of whatever our background, we're able to juggle a lot of different things and we can get things done, we can get things done a lot more

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efficiently. Maybe because we oftentimes juggle our homes and our families and our careers in a way that males don't do. Yeah, you know, I-I could go on about why women just get things done [laughs]. Yeah, and is there like any extra challenges you face as being a woman and in

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poli—? Yeah, I mean, misogyny is a real thing. And that is not, you know—that is not alien to the Asian American community [laughs].

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So–so is it-is it there? Yes. But is it gonna stop the work that we're doing? No. It just means that we have to work a little bit more harder. And we have to uplift other women to make sure that we're making way for them and

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that we are work–working toward making sure that when we say Asian Americans are being empowered, we mean all Asian Americans, both men and women. And preach that-that women get—have the power to get a lot of things done.

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And that's exactly the kind of question I'm gonna ask next: how do you balance between work and family? Because I think you have more than one child, I think as— Yes, yes, I have three kids.

01:09:47.380 - 01:10:02.240

How do I balance work and family? I think you have to have a husband who-who really understands and is okay with you being, you know—the type of work we do oftentimes takes place, not on a regular workday, but on the evenings—in the evenings, on the weekends.

01:10:02.820 - 01:10:19.410

So having a good partner is very, very important [laughs]. And my kids are older now, so that does make it easier. But making sure that you carve out some-some me times. So we were coming through a really brutal election season.

01:10:20.400 - 01:10:37.760

And I'm going to be this weekend going away for-for a little bit just to take some time off, you know, so to-to make sure you carve out that time to recharge. But I'm a political junkie, even on my off time, I'm on Twitter, and looking at what's going on [laughs]. You know, so it is what it is,

01:10:39.240 - 01:10:57.180

but–but you-you-you can't let politics permeate every single part of your life. And that's something that I'm trying to embody more [laughs] than I can say I actually do. But when I'm with my friends, and with my family, I do try not to always talk about politics, because there's more to life than that, right?

01:10:58.310 - 01:11:17.450

And-and it's really important to-to be in the moment, in the now and trying to enjoy every part of your life and being present in it. And I think if you can do that, then-then you're off to a good start. Do you try to get your children involved in political work as well?

01:11:17.990 - 01:11:28.540

Yes, yes, I do. But children sometimes will want to do the exact opposite of what their parents are doing. So they're very politically astute. But they don't want to be involved in anything that I do.

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So [laughs] I don't know what to make of that. They will get involved in their own way. But they just don't want to be involved in some of the things that maybe I'm pushing them to do. It's probably because I'm just very pushy.

01:11:39.370 - 01:11:50.050

But-but they're very, very politically aware. And they have a lot of political opinions. And we don't always agree. And I always think of myself as being very progressive, and then I hang out with my

01:11:50.050 - 01:12:04.350

daughters, and I'm like, “Oh, my gosh, I'm not progressive at all. These guys are [laughs], like, so much more-more progressive and-and new ideas.” And I learned a lot from them. And-and so-so yeah, I do try to get them involved.

01:12:07.580 - 01:12:27.590

So we know that the COVID pandemic has brought, like, extra challenge to Asian American communities because of the increasing, like, racism in the whole US. And what are your thoughts about, like, the work Asian Americans should do or the challenges we are looking up

01:12:27.590 - 01:12:40.640

to, like, after, like—at this time of the year, I would say, post-pandemic time? Yeah, I think-I think it's electing leaders that don't use Asian Americans as a scapegoat. That's the number one thing we can do, right?

01:12:41.130 - 01:13:01.070

We elect leaders that, understand that there is nuance to these things, and then don't pit communities against each other for personal power. We also have to make sure that we are working hard within our own communities to combat misinformation, I think that's a real big issue.

01:13:02.480 - 01:13:17.220

And we also have to unite and work together to combat this surge in anti-Asian hate. And that can come in all forms, you know. I remember being in the Trump administration, and they had a Muslim ban.

01:13:17.910 - 01:13:35.220

And I know how important and-and—what I felt when my friends from other communities came to fight against that at the airports and-and argue that this is not right, this is not what America is, right? There were lawyers, everyone showed up at the airport to try to work against the Muslim

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ban. And I-and I expect all of us as Asian Americans and other communities to show up in solidarity with everyone else when when our community members are singled out against Asian hate. And-and-and some of the-the rhetoric that has taken place under

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the last administration. And-and so it means working together, it means educating, it means taking part in bystander trainings, by–bystander intervention training, so that if we see something going on, we know how to respond to and how to help that person that is

01:14:10.820 - 01:14:27.000

being victimized. Um, so maybe you've already talked about this, but I was wondering what is, like, your plan in the next 10 years? Oh my gosh, we have one and a half minutes [laughs].

01:14:28.610 - 01:14:42.090

So I'll be really quick. So plan in the next 10 years, I want to see Texas be more progressive. I want to flip the state. And I want to do it in such a way that Asian Americans are empowered and are part of every

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single political office—has some role in every political office, in some leadership position. I want to see our communities thrive. I want to see our communities be–be a part of

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this–this state in this country in a way that we all work towards a more just and equitable society and that we are a more just and equal society. We—when we look back at this conversation in 10 years. Okay, so I think that's all the questions

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I'm going to ask. Do you have any extra things that you would like to share or add? Uh, no. I think that you did a really good job [laughs].. Thank you so much and really thank you for being able

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to do this interview with Houston Asian [laughs] American Archive. And thank you so much for your participation.