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Today is June 19, 2021. My name is Ann Shi, I'm with the Houston Asian American Archive. Today we are interviewing May Iting Lu again for her role as a Buddhist layman. Thank you so much, May, for joining us again.

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Thank you. Actually, I wouldn't use "layman," I probably use "one of the volunteers helping at the temple". And also, can we start by asking about your Buddhist practices and how you became...?

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Okay. I actually I came from a very academic family. My parents were college sweethearts. They were devout Christians. Back then, because their university in Shanghai was—

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how do you say that, 教會大學, how do you say that? Actually it's sponsored by the first missionary, European or American missionary colleges. So they started being Christian.

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And during World War II, my father graduated from college joined the integrand (?). And he was tortured. So they went, finally went to Chongqing, the war capital around the almost victory time.

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He suffered a lot and he struggled a lot; and then fled, follow the Nationalist government to go to Taiwan. During that time, he had a lot of spiritual struggle, he changed; my mom never changed. My mom is still a devout Christian.

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He changed but he never went to Buddhist temple. He shared with me— during that time, my mother was the only one work. My father was bedridden a couple of years in Taiwan. He shared with me how, what is Buddhism, like you

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love people unconditionally; you don't judge people, you don't criticize people, you are sinful; because that makes you more accepting everything gracefully. So I have this deep roots about

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how to be a good Buddhist. But I still went out to church with my mom. So I love all the Christian music. Even to this day, when I listen to the music, I still feel I can

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visualize the heaven, that kind of feeling. But until I came to the United States, especially moved to Houston, Texas, I have an urge to find my cultural roots when I have my two girls.

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I feel other than Chinese school they should know what kind of Asian people believe, instead of going to the church automatically. You know, everything is "God bless you and your family, your loved ones." Actually, we all should love each other instead of only "God bless you." You know,

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"Buddha bless you," too. You know, so I finally have the feeling where to find the Buddhist temple. We came the time, there was none. And finally, in the early or late 70s, right?

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[Mr. Lu: Yeah.] Late 70s. We had the first Buddhist temple. That was an traditional Southern cotta-cottage house, like the ranch house with a big lump.

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So they said, "This is the temporary Buddhist temple." And I learned that monk, that monk told us, how did he become a monk. So that's the story I want to share with you. During 1949, the Civil War between nationalists

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and communists, actually, the victims are the civilians. We don't share any political belief. We just want our nation strong again. After the invasion of the-the tormented years for so long,

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in— by invasion of Japanese soldier, we were ready to just have a peaceful life. Unfortunately, most of the people, especially in the southern part of the people, you know, like the people in Beijing, probably they didn't experience Civil War, you know.

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But in people in Shanghai, the people in Nanjing already feel the air raid and everything. Chinese killed Chinese. My parents— my parents were not political at all, they just against

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Japanese soldiers. But my grandmother, my grandmother— my father's mother, I told you was an ancestor of the Zeng Guofan. She was very knowledgeable, even she didn't receive any formal Chinese schooling. She read everyday paper.

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She told us, everybody should go to Taiwan. Actually, my grandfather was dying. She said, "I took care of him. Don't worry about me.

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I will take care of until his passing. Then I will follow you." He [She] was bounded feet. But he [she] inside was so strong. So all the children of his— hers, and his, left

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to Taiwan. My father, my mother was— were one of them. Actually, his younger brothers, his younger sister, an older sister, and my mom's younger brother all fled to Taiwan. And during that time, a lot of monks were puzzled, didn't know what to

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do, especially in the Nanjing area. The famous monk now still alive in Taiwan, Hsing Yun Fashi [星雲法師, Master Hsing Yun]. Okay. He was from Nanjing. His father was killed during [the] 南京大屠殺 [Nanjing

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Massacre]. He and his mother came from the countryside to look for his father, couldn't. And then she was deva— the mother was devastated. He didn't want to go back.

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He told his mom, “我要去栖霞山“ [“I want to go to the Qixia Mountain”]. Do you know 栖霞山 [Qixia Mountain] in Nanjing? Become a monk. He was only seven or eight years old. Our monk in Alief area was the same.

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Like the— after war, a lot of peasants, children cannot have enough food. So the family said, we have to send some small children to go to the monastery, so that they can have good food to be fed.

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You know, he was one of them. So during the— this time, the turmoil, how to stay, where to stay. They said, "There was a general in Nationalist government,

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Sun Liren, his wife was a devout Buddhist." She didn't have children. But she was so devout. She went to monasteries, say, "Do you have any monks want to go to Taiwan? We can organize a small troops, like 60 of

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the monks, to be the soldiers, to fight for the communists— actually it’s not fighting. They are monks." So Hsing Yun Fashi and our monk, Jinhai Fashi; and also Sheng-yen Fashi [Master], 法鼓山 [Dharma Drum Mountain].

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They all were the 60 of them. So they all went to Taiwan. And during the time, the general was in the house arrest, 60 of them were all put to prison.

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They were in prisons for a couple years. And when the prison finally set them free, I think half of them become communists, half of them still go back to monastery. So this 這三個, this three of them all become big,

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noble scholars, Buddhist scholar. They went to graduate school. They go to a lot of teaching, like a get a teaching certificate. And our monk in Houston, he said,

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"My verbal ability is not that good. But I got a master's degree in Thailand. And I went to Japan to study their Buddhism. Now I think it's about my time to spread some Buddhism in the

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south, since the West Coast and the East Coast already have so many monks already. So he was here. And now speaking about His Holiness Dalai Lama, we have two monks.

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One is him. Another monk came from Yunnan province in China. During the time 1949 to 1954, during that time, Yunnan was not under very good condition.

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A lot of people fled, from Yunnan to Burma. Because Yunnan, now the country is strong. We know, "Oh, this part is India. This part is Pakistan.

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This part is Burma." Back then I think the border is kind of loose. So this monk, the monk we have now. What is his name? She's young. Jinhai? [Mr Lu: Hongyi.] Hongyi Fashi

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was— the father was farmer too. They both had parents are farmers. They don't have enough crops. So people told him, "Oh, we farmers, the farming

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village— village; we seven of us all moved to Burma." Back in Burma, actually it’s— it’s Golden Triangle. Now, you know, it's Golden Triangle. "That crops the soil are richer, we can have more crops." So they

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move to Burma. Unfortunately, one time, robbers kill— kill all the seven Chinese farmers. So he become an orphan.

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And they just moved to Burma. The mother was very young. He is the oldest, another younger brother younger sister. So the mother said, "How are we going to make a living?" So he tried to

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sell the Chinese "dianxin"— desert, to Burma. It's not going to last long. I'm glad, he had an aunt, "gugu", the father's sister already become a nun in Burmese

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temple. She travel— during that time, no highway— she traveled two three days, heard about him, her brother died; she traveled two three days, said, "I can help you. I'll take three of them to my nun monastery."

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But the baby, sister, two baby, she cannot handle. She's in the late 20s. How could she handle this? So she took the two boys to the monastery.

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But the younger boy, like two three year old, keep on crying crying. All the nun said, "You have to send him back." So she had to send him back. Stay the one is our Fashi. [I forgot his name again.] [Mr.

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Lu: Hongyi.] Hongyi Fashi. Actually he become very capable. He’s bilingual now. So when, in 1990,

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the end of 1990, when the Dalai Lama won the peace prize from Nobel Prize, we were so happy. But back then we finally had our really temple, (?) look, temple in Houston area.

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So we need to find the distinguished guest. And I was very courageous. I said, "Why don't we invite the Dalai Lama? I was told he is coming to United States to give a talk."

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And guess what? His secretary responded to me, and said, "He's coming." But we have to pay the traveling expense, either from DC to Houston round trip, or somewhere else, and the room and board. It's really very reasonable.

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Of course we say yes. And also we find a lot of sponsors. Back then Rice has Anne Klein. Do you know Anne Klein?

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Anne Klein is still teaching at Rice. They have a Jewish group, the Buddhism. And they spent some money, we spent some money. Sso we organized three days' service.

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One day, the big event is here; and then they have special service at Rice and so forth. But during that time, I think it's a big cultural shock for both parties.

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Dalai Lama never expected a Taiwanese Buddhist temple would invite him; and he never thought Chinese could be like him. So he, deep inside, he— they have a coffee break, he

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asked the two Buddhist temples I just said, Hongyi Fashi and Jinhai Fashi. "Where are you from?" Because he, he could tell right away that they're Chinese; also not the northern Chinese, the southern Chinese. He can speak real good Mandarin.

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He asked them, our oldest monk, Jinhai Fashi said, "I came from China, and during war time, I suffered that. And after in- internal war— Civil War, I fled, followed the Nationalist General to Taiwan; and then

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I was in jail. And then when I— they set me free. Fortunately, I found the chance to come to United States." And Hongyi Fashi was even heartbroken during that time. He lost his father, for unknown reason;

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his family broke. The only way he can have food to eat is become a monk. I think for Dalai Lama, he finally realized, war is so terrible, not necessary Chinese.

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I think he changed. He never say a bad thing about Chinese. Since 1991, he even went to Taiwan, several trips. So, for me, he is very different.

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Because when he give the talk, he said, "So many Chinese here, and I think we all came from "心經" ["The Heart Sutra"]. He said, "心經, it's your, your monk translate.” 就是玄奘嘛 [Xuanzang].

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"So you all read for me. I love to listen." So we all read Xinjing, and then several monks, lama followed him read Xinjing in Sanskrit. Later, he was very humble.

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After he's gone, I think, because of him, during the five years after he’s gone, I have a karma to know, so many, great Buddhist scholar from Tibet.

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A couple of them is the teachers of his— Dalai Lama's teacher. I'm pretty sure they all pass away. One came, it's— how do you say "in seclusion"? He hasn't seen anybody like for ten years or 15 years in

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a cave, and he came back. He was Dalai Lama's— young, young Dalai Lama's teacher. He came, and we didn't know him. Our temple, a lot of conservative people said, "Well Tibet wants to be

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independent. We don't want to invite him," you know? So Chinese Cultural Center, 僑教中心, invited him. That trip, make change. 我們很害怕就是他們... 灑水.

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[We are uncomfortable of them sprinkling water on us.] The rituals of Tibetans is so different than the Chinese one. I didn't invite my husband to go, I was the one to go. I went, and so many Lay Buddhist went, just like your father would

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be curious to go. We all went, we saw the... 它会—— [It will— ] 那個叫什麼? [What is it called?] 不是開示. [Not Guide to way of life.] 好像可以點了以後，你就會 partially enlightened.

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[It’s like if you’re sprinkled on, you’ll be partially enlightened.] How do you say that in Chinese? Ask your daddy, okay? [Editor’s Note: 灌頂, abhiseca]. At the end, he told us. He said, "Now is the ceremony..." Because we are Chinese are

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very afraid of speciall ritualist ceremony we didn't know, you know. And he said, "This is the ceremony of thinking, we have this life to know Guanyin." You know, they, for Guanyin, they, they really— "Om Mani Padme Hum," is asked for Guanyin

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self. But everything is Guanyin. But I didn't know. I thought he is going to play magic because he's so powerful. He used to teach the Dalai Lama.

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Maybe closing to him—by sitting closing to him, I can get some special talent or special wisdom. It's not. He told us. He said, "Close your eyes during meditation.

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Visualize your Guanyin." To this day I cannot stop crying, because I feel he is so kind and courageous to help others. And after he left, a couple of years later, he

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passed away. But this is the best experience, some of the experience is awful. Because Anne Klein knew me, because I came so many times, he [she] said, "There is another Tibetan scholars came into a rich family

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in, you know, North Boulevard, South Boulevard, the rich people live." Said, he came. Now he spent two three days to give you talk. So I drove myself to go.

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You know, when you were young, you, you feel you want to learn everything. So I went for that ritual, I couldn't take it. So many feathers, and also spreading water and put out one of your hairs, you know, a lot of things, I don't know what he did

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talking about. I'm pretty sure it's in Sanskrit. So I was so chicken, because they've lined up, gradually it’s my turn, I just left. I just try to escape, because I don't want to receive anything I do not know.

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But during that time, I see so many Buddhist scholars from Tibet, from Dharma Solar, and also from the United States. United States have so many Buddhist scholar, majority of them are Jewish. I invite some of them, and there was one

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of the famous nun. Now she has a big monastery in Seattle. He— she invited me to be a scholar, to give them a talk in the University of Washington.

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Like, "What is the similarity between psychotherapy and Buddhism?" Okay, so, so many Buddhist scholar during that 10 years, okay. But other than, than Dalai Lama and

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our masters, Hsing Yun Fashi came. That's what 中美寺 [Chung Mei Temple], you know that; but before Chung Mei Temple, I knew him already. Because Hsing Yun Fashi and Jinhai Fashi, remember, they were put into the jail, remember?

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They all came from Nanjing. They speak the same dialect. And Hsing Yun Fashi has more charisma, you know. In order to have a big organization, you cannot say, "I'm introvert.

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I don't like to talk." You have to be a good speaker. Hsing Yun Fashi back then, when he was young, he was very handsome, very tall. You know, when people tall, good looking, and

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powerful, speak louder; even he speak broken Mandarin, because he speak 是 [is] Nanjing Hua [dialect]. Because my nanny was Nanjing Ren [Nanjingese], so I knew the accent. Like "dui bu qi" is like "day bu qi", a lot of accent.

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But he is charming. He's charming. He's good. And also he chose a good direction. He went to become a kindergarten teacher for couple years.

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All the kindergarten teachers become the first group of nun of his Foguang Shan, and now they all the— like, in charge. So nuns, a lot of nuns in Foguang Shan. Okay. Another group is "慈濟 [Temple]": compassion,

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kindness, people. That actually I only donate. I think their organization I'm not familiar with. They don't have ritualistic things.

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They just say, 做了就好 [Merits are in the action]. But over all, Sheng-yen Fashi [Master] 法鼓山 [Dharma Drum], 還有星雲大師的佛光山 [as well as Fo Guang Shan of Master Hsing Yun], 還有慈濟 [as well as Ciji Temple] , they all came from one master.

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This master is 印順 [Master Yin Shun]— 印度的印，順利的順 [phonetics]. He has been the— so far one of the best scholars, a lot of people says, since 玄奘大师 [Master Xuanzang], okay.

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He was in jail too in Taiwan. He got back and also he keep on writing “佛法概論” [“Introduction to Buddhism”], okay. They have like an encyclopedia in my house, I had it. Okay, he make it very simple, let you realize 藏傳佛法，宗喀巴傳下來的, 从

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[Tibetan Buddhism, Je Tsongkhapa handed down from] ever since the 16th century, 傳下來的格魯派跟原始的佛法 [the inherited Gelug School and the most original Buddhist Dharma], same. 印順導師的跟藏傳佛法 [Master Yin Shun’s and Tibetan Buddhism] actually the same.

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The reason why I love 藏傳佛法 [Tibetan Buddhism], I feel the warmth and the compassion kindness, they practice. 所以慈濟 carry this, okay . Hsing Yun Dashi [星雲大師, Master Hsing Yun] carried through education.

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聖嚴法師，法鼓山 [Master Sheng-yen of Dharma Drum Mountain] through theory, like 聖嚴大師他也是江浙人. 不是南京人，可是是江浙人 [Master Sheng-yen is from Jiangsu or Zhejiang. Not Nanjingese, but from Jiangsu or Zhejiang.] He actually had a lot of things I look up to. He was in the kidney dialysis

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for 20 years in Taiwan, he keep on talking about how to meditate by using like, 宗喀巴的“藏傳佛法”和“佛法概論” [the “Tibetan Buddhism” and “Introduction to Buddhism” by Je Tsongkhapa]. A lot of people admired him, the

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business people, the rich people, the powerful people. So he had a lot of kidney transplant situation, said, "Some people's kidney. You can tran— you can transplant, you can get well." He refused.

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He said, "I've done my purpose in life, I have finished. I don't need to survive. Let a good kidney help the good people, the younger people." So he died in young age. But after he his death, he showed people

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how to die. He didn't like 中台禪寺那麼大的一個漂亮的廟 [Chung Tai Zen Center such a large and beautiful temple]. He doesn't want it. He says spray— spray my ashes in all the flowers, all the trees. We don't have— we don't want personal worshipping.

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That's the true Buddhism. So I really suggest a lot of people too, if you become a Buddhist, you don't have to give up your religions. Religions are religions.

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Buddhism is let you follow what in life. You want to see the picture? [AS: Yeah.] I'll be happy to explain to you. Sure. Can you tell us a little bit more about 玉佛寺 [Jade Buddha Temple] ?

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For the sake of the audience, you didn't introduce the name 玉佛寺, just... Okay. Oh, we– we have several Buddhist temple now in Houston area. Jade Buddha Temple happened to be developed in 1990 to 1991.

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And then to— to 20 years later, we have a Bodhi Center— you know the Bodhi Center, do you? 500, 500 acres in Hampstead. And we have a meditation room.

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But the 450 acres saved for animal conservation, okay. But other than Jade Buddha Temple, we have a English service and everything. There is a 中台禪寺 [Chung Tai Zen Center], they teach you how to meditate.

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And they have SOP: standardized step 1-2-3. And then how do you practice? Since the pandemic, they even had Zoom every other

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week. Even the master, the practice meditation master will say, "You dozed off!" Because they can see everyone through Zoom, okay. So 中台禪寺，還有慈濟，還有 [Chung Tai Zen Center, and Tzu Chi, and] Vietnamese, Thailand, Cambodia,

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Burmese. I was told Burmese temple was the only one have more than 1000 congregation members. So we have all kinds of Asian new immigrant temple. The Vietnamese Buddhist temple very close to Jade Buddha temple.

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They are so cute, they came to our temple said, "You don't mind we copy you?" So they more or less completely copy ours Jade Buddha temple, okay. But so far as American Buddhist temple, I do not know that many, but I know there are so many meditation small

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groups. Okay. What is demographics like in these? Are they mostly Chinese...? Demographic kind?

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English service of course is— it’s mixed. Okay. I'm not that involved anymore, because of my age. But other than that, I— 10 years ago, I even still went to the English service.

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Back then there was a lay Buddhist, the husband and wife are the chief of Houston hospice in Medical Center, they even adopted a Chinese orphan. So they— they do practice so good.

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How big is the Chinese Buddhist community do you think? You know, it's— it's hard to say it. I think it's not like Christian. Christian is like, because I— when I saw patients in my clinic,

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I will ask them, "Which denomination are you from?" They very— this is a very big stuff because they belong to Luther... bap— Southern Baptists or so-and-so. It's very different view— view of life in a way, okay.

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And they all have to go to church every Sunday. If they don't go to church, you're not a good Christian. But in Buddhists, you don't have to go; or you can go every day. So, but you have to practice, you have to

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think about it, you cannot have like, "I hold a grudge on certain kinds of people." This is bad. So it's hard to say, but original founding member to this day, I would say 700 to 1000.

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A lot of people came said, "I want to set a special shrine to my parents." Since their parents passed away, or something like 藥師佛的那個 [Bhaisajyaguru’s]. And I never did this kind of thing. But a lot of people do.

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So it's hard to calculate how many. But you can tell some of the Buddhist wedding, like one black person, one white person came to the temple. And it's this kind of thing is very common.

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We— we don't count them, they're Buddhists or not. And in terms of the size of— among all these temples, which one is the biggest?

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I think it's ours. High ceiling. Let me show it to you. I hope— I hope they didn't... See? We have greeting Dalai Lama, and then we take picture.

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I hope we take a picture of the inside. This is the inside closer range. This is Dalai Lama. 這是我們的合照 [This is our

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photos together.] 這個就是，你看這個就是. [This is it, see, this is it.] How many people! This jade Buddha is from Shanghai. Somebody donated, a Hong Kong monk donated. You know, in Buddhism, we don't say, "Oh, so-and-so's

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church is not too Christian," or "Why don't you come to our church?" In— in Buddhism, if you change into Tibetan Buddhism, we are happy for you, okay. Every road go the same way to Rome.

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So we are happy for you. We don't— we don't worry about it. For instance, like my two daughters, they're almost 50 now. One is going to be 50 next month.

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We'd better give her a present. But anyway, they don't eat red meat to this day; I eat. Because I more or less tell them how to enjoy life.

00:32:51.180 - 00:33:06.810

Life is so precious. Even my granddaughter who goes to Yale, she told me, "Nainai [Grandma], the reason why we don't eat mammals, because mammals have feelings." Okay, these things, I feel very heartwarming.

00:33:08.180 - 00:33:15.120

I feel very good. For me, they are Buddhists. They care about life. Every life is precious.

00:33:18.050 - 00:33:27.840

And what kind of roles do the temples play? Like you mentioned they had weddings, besides... Funerals? 菩提中心還有一個白靈骨塔的喔. 還有 training, 還有 lessons.

00:33:27.840 - 00:33:43.590

[The American Bodhi Center has a bailing bone pagoda as well, and training, and lessons.] Every— every Saturday, they still talk about 印順導師那個 Encyclopedia 的佛法概論，每一天都提... 我... [The “Introduction to Buddhism” in the Encyclopedia by Master Yin Shun, they study it every single day.

00:33:43.590 - 00:33:54.500

I… ] told them I'm about the oldest one. I cannot keep up with you. Starting 7:30 to 10:30 is my bedtime. You know, elderly they sleep early.

00:33:55.280 - 00:34:06.060

So they still doing that in Zoom. Okay, that's the volunteer. That's me. Oh that's you then. Yeah.

00:34:06.690 - 00:34:20.950

And your daughter? Yeah. My younger daughter. [AS: Mister Lu.] Yes. That's about the only photo album I have the whole thing with

00:34:20.950 - 00:34:37.090

Dalai Lama; but the otherwise a lot of photo album with monks, different monks, okay. And another monks in American Buddhism. You probably need to tape that too.

00:34:38.340 - 00:34:49.990

It’s 宣化 [Hsuan Hua]. 宣 is 宣傳的選，化是化學的化 [phonetics]. He was a monk had a first monastery in Northern California.

00:34:51.610 - 00:35:04.330

All his pupils were Americans, mixed-American, different ethnicity. Even to this date, they still give lectures. He passed away a long time.

00:35:05.020 - 00:35:19.920

Even to this day, you— if you use YouTube said, "Buddhism in America," you see the American faith that's his students. 宣化上的 [From Hsuan Hua]. He came and he saw me as an MC.

00:35:20.560 - 00:35:39.410

He practically talked to me through phone for many, many years, called my— asked me to go to Northern California. He originally came from China, Taiwan, then Northern California. [Mr. Lu: When Dalai Lama came,] he was not...

00:35:39.540 - 00:35:53.700

[Mr. Lu: He gave Dalai Lama.] 達賴喇嘛不是宣化上的 [Dalai Lama wasn’t taught by Hsuan Hua]. [Mr. Lu: 我知道 [I know.] Dalai Lama came here to our temple and give speech for two days. And she was the translator.] I was the translator.

00:35:54.100 - 00:36:08.520

[Mr. Lu: For four days.] [AS: Oh wow, that's amazing.] [Mr. Lu: It's not easy, because I cannot do that for sure.] When I was younger, see? I always try to be low key, because ever since—

00:36:09.430 - 00:36:21.360

ever since I listened to that lecture, I realize just try to change your heart. This is you with the red flower. And this is Dalai Lama.

00:36:27.650 - 00:36:40.990

Can you talk a little bit about the connections between your temple and other— like religious organizations like interfaith...? Oh, they– they are very active in the interfaith.

00:36:43.290 - 00:37:00.480

You know, here they have interfaith organization. My husband one time was the volunteer to— to join the meeting. Finally, he saw one of the doctor in the interfaith, he said, "I realize nobody tried to share the goodness of

00:37:01.640 - 00:37:15.740

other people. They all try to convince: mine is the best." [laugh] So he lost interest. And he said, "That— that really made me feel a little bit disappointed too."

00:37:16.850 - 00:37:28.510

But you grew up in an interfaith family. [MIL: Yes.] Like your parents... To the end, even to the end. My— my— my mother and father all their cremated ash,

00:37:28.580 - 00:37:44.100

because I was the only child, I promised I will let them closer to me. My mother, even my mother's has lived in Southern California for about 30, 40 years.

00:37:44.920 - 00:38:04.760

So she asked her pastor, "Would that be okay if I go to Houston, next to Bodhi Center with my husband?" The pastor say, "Go right ahead, always next to your family." So I cremated her with her 50 year old Bible.

00:38:06.270 - 00:38:18.910

She was very devoted. My father was not that devoted. But he did so many good things. Like, we came from National Taiwan University,

00:38:20.750 - 00:38:35.610

we celebrated 2016 for my 15 year reunion in Taida— National Taiwan University. We had a huge stadium, more than 1,000 people went, all were my classmates.

00:38:35.610 - 00:38:51.690

[Noise at door.] That's okay. But one lady tried to search me. She finally approached me, we took a picture together. She told me, "Did your daddy tell you?

00:38:53.050 - 00:39:06.480

My heart— my family was so poor. He paid for my four year tuition and everything, living costs." My father never say the word. I even to this day, I do not know her name.

00:39:07.920 - 00:39:22.430

My father did so many good things. He just practice. And also he, well, had a heated debate with the Christian, he said, "Why you want to go to church— to go to heaven?

00:39:23.540 - 00:39:43.240

If Heaven is crowded, I'd rather go to down— because there is a 地藏王菩薩 [Kṣitigarbha]. He made a vow if— if... 地獄怎麼講? [How do you say ‘Hell’?] [AS: Hell.] – if hell is not empty, he rather stay with the people in hell.

00:39:44.110 - 00:39:59.500

[AS: Yeah. Remember that.] You— you received some preaching from your father, huh? Just here and there. Not— not precisely preaching, I wouldn't call them. We don't force people to— to have any religion.

00:40:02.170 - 00:40:15.480

Any other question? [Mr. Lu: The heaven and hell, I don't, I don't believe it. This is just to make normal regular people...] – encouraged. [Mr. Lu: – encourage them...] To be good...

00:40:15.560 - 00:40:28.920

[Mr. Lu: ... to do good things.] ... and also to express love. Yeah, like somebody has serious illness, you can— you come to visit them. You said, "God is always with you, so you're so kind,

00:40:30.140 - 00:40:46.630

he will protect you." It's warm feeling, "I care for you," this kind of thing. You know, a lot of missionary Christians are so good. I— when I was in the college, one of my professors was a missionary. Three generation in China.

00:40:48.040 - 00:41:04.340

He was old man to fled from mainland to Taiwan to teach me. Every time I came to visit him when I was in 40s, he was still alive. He always say, "You don't mind if I pray?" He pray in Chinese because he

00:41:04.340 - 00:41:22.070

was born in Suzhou. He— he will pray in Chinese, he'll say, "my students so-and-so," he remembered me the name, "and she will go back to the United States," which state, "Please, God, bless her safety." You know, this kind of

00:41:22.070 - 00:41:38.850

soothing, loving voice I will always cherish. So, I think being a religious person is not bad. Can you talk a little bit about how you kind of intertwined therapy and your Buddhist practices?

00:41:40.490 - 00:41:57.780

Play no judgment. Play no judgment. And believe in 因緣 (yīnyuán). In English, some people translate 因緣 like "chance of encounter". Everybody came to this

00:41:57.780 - 00:42:13.800

state, not only genetics, also a lot of childhood. How do— how do parents raise you? And what? Re-relationship wise, marriage counseling, I always

00:42:14.390 - 00:42:31.110

started, "How did you two meet?" Because if— if they quarrel so much, they've been tormented through this argument; but if you say, "How did you two meet?" If they can loosen up and say, "Oh, that time?

00:42:31.490 - 00:42:47.970

When I saw her, she was the prettiest girl in the whole campus." There is hope. There’s still some good karma there. If somebody told you, "Oh, we were college sweetheart." I asked them why, how did you meet.

00:42:48.530 - 00:43:01.370

She burst into tears— bad memory. [laughs] There’s not that much hope! See? So you use a lot of things, you know, everything come with a reason.

00:43:02.570 - 00:43:15.700

Try to accept them. Don't change them, let them develop their own strain. Did I answer your question? Yeah, totally. And besides marriage counseling, do

00:43:16.430 - 00:43:32.350

you do also like... Family, [AS: Yeah.] like sibling rivalries, or parental skills or two generation relationship. You see a lot of things like the parents, for

00:43:33.400 - 00:43:50.490

instance, were very much emphasized, like you have to marry this kind of person. There is something back then they learn from their childhood, okay. And also, for instance, like I

00:43:50.960 - 00:44:08.340

receive a parental, parents counselling, the mother told me, the daughter, "You can never marry the Chinese from farming village." Do you understand what I'm saying?

00:44:08.340 - 00:44:24.310

[AS: Yeah.] 就是不能嫁去農村的人 [Just never marry a farmer.] I say, why? We Chinese, we coming from a farming country. Remember back 5000 years ago, majority of the people are farmers. Why?

00:44:24.610 - 00:44:39.410

Farming country. Because they said, "The farming country people come to the city, they want to stay, they very aggressive..." and this kind of thing. A lot of it is because their cultural background, you try to

00:44:40.110 - 00:44:56.900

understand them, then you try to help them to resolve. Moving on, do you think we can talk a little bit about the financial donations for... and how the temple sustains itself?

00:44:57.650 - 00:45:13.430

I remember you talked about during sponsoring the Dalai Lama's trip here, everyone kind of shared— shared their parts. To tell you the truth, I am one of the most generous person; I never asked other people.

00:45:15.040 - 00:45:28.420

I never asked other people. I'm pretty sure everybody's think of like me. But I— I basic, based on my own experiences, American people you should be more straightforward.

00:45:29.320 - 00:45:43.500

Like you— you register to Dalai Lama's talk, each person is $100. Okay. And it's for registration. And they will understand, you'll have to pay $100.

00:45:44.730 - 00:46:02.130

But for Chinese people, I think they know. But it's amazing, because I went to Taiwan, one year. 環島旅行 [trip around the island] buy two, buy a traveling two.

00:46:03.250 - 00:46:20.380

And the guy told us to go to a 高雄佛光山，中台禪寺 [Fo Guang Mountain in Kaohsiung, Chung Tai Zen Center], I never went. So I went and encounter with several groups of Chinese tourists. And they are very curious.

00:46:20.800 - 00:46:35.500

They went to the 香火, donation box. Someone said, "Oh, it's real money." They didn't expect people donate, okay. I think being religious, being spiritual, needs

00:46:36.320 - 00:46:51.330

some training. Yeah, just add some things: she, I was— I was a psychiatrist until, practice the psychiatry, until about two years ago.

00:46:52.650 - 00:47:12.370

And she is— she was a psychologist and her major is seeing patient with family problems. And so she has written six, seven books in that field. [AS: Yeah.] And she can do better than that.

00:47:12.510 - 00:47:21.010

No, no, no. 遠流雜誌社 [Yuan-Liou Publishing]. You know the 金庸? 金庸所有的書，柏楊所有的書, 我就是那個 publish 的. 我等一下會帶你到樓上，有個禮物要送給您— 沒有，很小的禮物，不值錢的. 所以我說, 其實... [All the books by Jin Yong, the books by Bo Yang; I published with them.

00:47:21.260 - 00:47:36.080

I’ll take you upstairs and give you a gift— no, a very small gift and isn’t pricey. So I’d say, actually...] So many things was fascinating.

00:47:36.080 - 00:47:54.820

Because Dalai Lama using the Tibetan ritual, we never started, it's like a completely lie-down. For Chinese Buddhism, it's not like this. But I think you mentioned about the donation.

00:47:56.140 - 00:48:15.180

Donation part is Chi— Buddhism never encouraged said how much. But in 1997, before 1997, I went to many monastery in China. Back then, I went with monks.

00:48:15.480 - 00:48:29.890

So I see monks and exchange monks— in that time, was very pure Buddhism. After that, I was told a lot of Buddhist temple now in China become very commercialized.

00:48:30.470 - 00:48:47.100

Like you have to give so much money for doing that, or... Before that, I never touched that. So I didn't know. This, this religious service actually it's mixed too, a lot of

00:48:47.200 - 00:48:48.160

Americans too.