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My name is Nori Geffrey from the Woodson Research Center at Fond Library at Race University. I am interviewing Lucille Varela. Today is October 23rd, 2020. This is part of the Houston Folk Music Archive, oral History project. Can you tell me about your early life? I was

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born in Houston, Texas and mostly grew up there. Uh, my father was in the oil industry so we moved around somewhat. I lived in Oregon, Louisiana, Venezuela, uh, but came back and went to uh middle school and high school and college in Houston. What first drew

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you to music? Uh, I joined the high school choir, uh, not being able to read music or sing. I, I just did it anyway. And the, the gentleman was nice enough to accept me. Mm. My boyfriend at the time was Bill Cade and he and I

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went all through middle school, high school and college together and he encouraged me to sing. So I guess that was the, the drawing factor and he played guitar. So I had to buy a guitar too. Hm. How did you teach yourself how to play the guitar?

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Bought a book. I had pictures of chords in it. I said I can do this and of course, being around Bill and, and his friends uh I was able to watch them and learn from them. So, in your um like autobiography that you wrote up, um

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how did you hear about the Houston Folklore Society concerts headed up by John A Lomax junior? Oh, goodness. It was just uh rumored around the community. Uh We lived in Montrose at the time and people said come, go to the meeting. So we did, that was

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an experience. John Lomax was a larger than life figure who sang without accompaniment ever. And so that was different and, and what he brought to the table was new to us also in what way uh we were familiar with what was going on at the time.

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Bob Dylan Johnny Mitchell. Uh but he sang old folk songs that he had discovered in his travels of interviewing other people. And then can you um were those, those are ones that you went to at the Jewish community Center or were you actually going to his

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home? Oh, goodness. I don't think it was either. And I can't remember, I can't remember where it was just uh a gathering of a group of people. And it, it, it must have been at the community center because it was not at someone's home. All right,

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because I think in the big, in the early days he would have them at home and then they got too rowdy. And so his wife said that. No, we gotta, we gotta do this someplace else. We, we must have got in on the light, the light

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part of it then. Um, so what, uh, led you and Bill came to form a duo? Oh, he always had such a gorgeous voice and started singing and playing and, and I wanted to do that too. So, um, I guess from my choral background, I was

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able to find harmony that and listening to Peter Pori always harmony. Did you practice like a lot together? Like what was, what was all that kind of like? Uh, at the beginning I had to practice a lot by myself because he was so much better than

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I, um, we would practice, you know, set aside some time every day to try to sing, learn a new song things we liked. Um, so you were doing this while you were attending the University of Houston, correct? I was, I was in classes there and got

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a job in the religion center as a secretary. And after that, we started, uh, trying to get gigs out in the community. Ok. Um So what was, what was your major there at EFH uh English secondary education with a little Spanish? Ok. Where was your plan,

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I guess to teach, like to, to teach it. It was, but it was really unfortunate because, uh when we had student teaching, we were seniors and I had to do student teaching in a, in a bar ghetto school and I decided I never wanted to teach.

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So there I was with an English degree and um I got jobs as legal secretary. Um So when you were at U of H you started performing um around. And so um I kind of wanted to go through the places where you and Bill played that

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kind of like just kind of go through them. Um And you can feel free to talk about the shows or the interiors of the venues um or other singers, Kentucky, the, the very first place I remember is the uh coffee house which was in an old

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um ROTC barracks at the time. And let's see, people like Don Sanders played there too. Um from there when the new uh University of Houston Student Center was built, they had a coffee house there and played with Man Lipscomb, Jimmy Buffett um before Margarita Bell. Hm.

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Mhm. People who were there, my favorite band that played there was Rat Creek. Never to be heard from again, but they were great. Five guys. How did you feel during those early shows? Were you, did you have been inquired, did it mean that you were not

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as nervous or were you really nervous? Like how did you handle? I was always nervous. I hadn't, hadn't discovered alcohol yet. So, uh I was really nervous. Um I don't know how one gets over that eventually time, I suppose. Um ok. So you talked about the

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coffee house. What about um Sand Mountain? Sand Mountain was, was home for a while for us. Uh Literally because we lived upstairs, there was an apartment and Mrs Kerrick was the owner and she let us live there in exchange for uh char duties. We, we had

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to clean up the club. Um There I saw Willis Allen Ramsey before he was Willis to Allen. It was just Allen. Um Jerry Jeff Walker. Hm Towns Zant, Don Sanders, Eric Taylor, Vincent Bell, Mickey Newberry. It was, it was wonderful. Uh All of the, the talent

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that was there. Well, um what was Mickey Newberry like uh quiet? We, we, we just, I saw him on stage and then, you know, we saw each other in passing. It was just a people that I, I came to know and love were Eric Taylor um

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David Rodriguez Don Sanders. So I remember from my interview with Don Sanders that he had said that perhaps when you lived upstairs, you might also have like MC kind of duties or organizing. Um who would be playing. Did you all have that kind of thing too

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or not? It's possible. Uh but that would have been Bill. He, he was always a good spokesperson and so he probably was what was, what was that little apartment like? Do you remember what it was like? It was one room, bathroom and kitchen and I remember

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that I needed to spruce it up. So I painted the far wall Cobalt enamel blue. Just, I liked blue at the time. Never heard any complaints after we moved out, whether that was forbidden or not. Yeah. I think, I think the building is long gone now.

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Oh, yeah. Not in Houston anymore, of course. And I haven't driven by the area in years and years. Yeah. It looks very, very different when I've been. Yeah, because I've heard everything. Yeah, I mean, it's just these big, big flashy buildings. It's, uh, gotten pretty fancy

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in that area. Texas Opry House was down the street and that's all that I remember from the area actually. What was, uh, well, before we get to the opera house, can you also talk about, um, Old Quarter? Oh, we did love the Old quarter. Uh, Dale

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so far was one of the, the managers of that place and it was, it was kind of magical. The, again, towns Vanzant Guy Clark, uh, some of the, um, members of, uh, dizzy Top would drop in. People just come and, and listen and, and it was

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fun. Um, other people have talked about the kind of difference between Sand Mountain and the old quarter. Did you? Yeah, probably the biggest difference was alcohol. Uh, Mrs Carrot did not allow alcohol. Um, and I guess the old quarter had beer. Um, can you talk about

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the, uh, Texas Opry House? Um, I only remember really one concert that I went to with a neighbor friend, Jackie mccauley who was a DJ at that time and she was an MC for the night and I wanted so badly to go backstage and meet, who

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did I say? Tom Rush? Oh, I, I forgot who I forgot exactly who you mentioned. The exact person. I'm sorry. But that didn't happen. Jackie said, mm mm not tonight girl. Uh It was a much larger venue than any of the others. It was a concert

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hall. And then how many did that seat? About 100 or so? Yeah, just a guess. Right. I, we recently gotten a lot of images from opera house from like a span of the mid seventies. But it's rare to see the other side. You just see the

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people who are on the stage, right? It, I saw a picture recently where a performer took a picture of his, his audience and I thought, oh, that was fun. It's nice to see them. Um, can you also talk about Anderson Fair? Oh, now Anderson Fair actually

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was another home. Um, we used to eat spaghetti like everybody and play at lunches and then grew up and, and played on the, the stage for, you know, night time weekends, weekdays whenever we could. Hm. Um, actually Anderson Fair was the first stop home from the

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hospital after bills and my daughter was born. So before we even got her home, we had to go by Anderson Fair. Did she end up spending time with, uh, Lily the chimpanzee? Just wondering, you know, I'm trying to think because Lily had, I mean, who was

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the owner? Lay? Lay had Lily the chimp? And I remember spending some time with her and realizing that it was a, a big job that they, they're strong and willful and not a cute little toy pet. Yeah, I feel, I don't know who it was, but

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there was somebody who had mentioned, I, I assume when Lily was very, very small that she was sometimes cuddling up with other kids who, whose parents hung out at the venue that could happen. Um And then finally, um, if we could talk about, uh, the sweetheart

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of Texas. Oh, Bruce Bryant, what a great little club I was downtown. Um, wasn't open very long, so we didn't play there very long. Uh, my current husband Larry ran the sound occasionally there. Uh, Bill and I and Pete Gosh, played there with Rem and Jack

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Elliott, please. Yes, just loved it. Were you, um, were you singing like kind of singing accompaniment for him? Ramblin Jack? No. Mm. It just the, the trio of us um, with the opening act? Oh, ok. Ok. Ok. Ok. Ok. That makes sense. That makes sense. Um

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You have ended up mentioning a lot of people while we've been talking and is there? Well, actually, let me ask about you instead of hearing about other people first. So when you were playing at these different venues, were there ways that um you and Bill switched

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up the act for the different um for the audience members, were there different? It kind of what are some ways that you guys performed? Entertained? Uh There were songs that I was drawn to and, and I wanted to sing lead on and others. Um I love

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singing harmony. Bill was a wonderful flap picker. Um, didn't, didn't learn nearly enough from him that I should have. Um, but we would just, uh, what fit with what we liked and what our voices could accomplish. You know, you, you might like a Joni Mitchell song,

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but that doesn't mean you can sing it. I did. Um, and then did you, um, work with him on, um, writing? Did you, did you ever write very much together? Never. No, not at all. Bill Bill was the writer. Hm Larry. And I actually sing one

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of his songs. So, were you not drawn to writing? Were you more drawn to performing? Yeah. Ok. I, I always felt, uh my, my English degree, uh, failed me completely. So, and, and Moons spon June just doesn't work. And there are so many good songs. I

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mean, I mean, this is my current songbook. Oh, wow. It's just a, just a little guy and, and I got some more to put in it. Yeah. That, that makes sense. Um, I actually am an English Lit major for both Bachelor's and my master's degree. And

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I really don't have any, like, creative skills. Some of us read it and think about it and others create it and that's ok. Yeah, I like it when other people do it. Hm. Yeah. Same with me. Um, so are there any relationships with fellow musicians that

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you'd like to talk more about? You've mentioned, like, Don Sanders and David Rodriguez and a variety of people who are still here and some that are not, um, are there any that, like, interesting stories or just impressions of those people? Hm. Interesting stories we have to

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pass on those. Um, but Don Sanders and, and mostly Eric Taylor and, uh, David Rodriguez. I just adored their guitar playing. Uh, David and Eric, were he heavy bass users? Like, like Don, with the heavy word user always envy da with all the things he could

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come up with for songs. Uh, Eric Taylor was so singular. I mean, you can recognize one of his songs in, in three beats. It's wonderful. And of course, all three of those are gone. No, I, um, anything about, uh, uh, David Rodriguez. Just like his song,

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crafting ability or, yeah, his, his guitar playing and whatnot. Uh, I knew him at, uh, Anderson Fair. Uh, he and his wife and, um, just always nice people. Mhm. So, after breaking up with LOCA, you began playing on your own. So, could you, yeah, can you

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talk about playing at Cory's and the Green Room. And I want you to keep in mind that no one has ever talked about the green room. So it would be great to learn more about that place. Well, John Moss hired me to come play there. And

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I remember playing one time with Lucinda Williams and uh I knew that she had started into blues and that's, that was her love. And so I had one blue song and, and I played it and that was the one song that she chose to compliment me

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on. That makes sense. Uh The Green Room was located in a three story brick building downtown and it has since been torn down. Um as was Charlie's 5 17 next door, the same deal in 100 year old building and they raised it to um make a

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parking lot for nearby hotel. Um What can I tell you about the green room? The music was on the ground floor, um three stories and I think that upstairs third floor was an apartment for John Moss and maybe and named Tumi. You may have been the

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outer of the building at that time. And other than the, the picture that I found, uh uh I'm sorry, it's ok. No, it's something, I mean, I, I assume that it was called the Green Room because it was near in the theater district. Yeah. So that's

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my assumption of why it was named the it, it may have been painted green inside. I, oh, that sounds special green. Um, ok. I have to, I have to ask John Moss. He was the one I would know. Is he, is he still alive? Yeah. Yeah.

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In Houston I just, he managed several clubs. Uh, Corky's, um, Theodore's Green Room. Ok. I will search him out then. Um, that would be great. Um, so do you wanna say anything about, uh, was fun? Uh, Bill? And I would play there, uh, nights, of course.

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And back then all the clubs allowed smoking and invariably after singing, I would get sick. So I don't know whether it was the, the smoke lowers your resistance, staying up late at night and having to get up and go to work the next morning. So I

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pretty much then decided I didn't want to sing in smoky venues. That totally makes sense. That makes sense. And I've, I've heard that Cory was pretty loud that they, they made a lot of pina coladas. I didn't drink that but, oh, there's a, I just, I

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think it was Lingham who had told the story about being at quirky and trying to sing, you know, a, a nice ballad and then, and then that, that Blender would turn on and it would just get real loud and then make it hard. So that's what

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I, when I think of cookies, especially with this kind of, uh, island theme, it seems like a place that would, and that kind of, I, I don't know if that's the time in the seventies when became popular. Yeah, I think so. My mother-in-law really liked him.

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Um, ok. So, um, you then, um, became, you formed a second duo with your husband, your current husband, Laurie Larry, Laurie Larry. And, um, can you, um, talk about how that happened? How you decided to form a duo when I was still married to Bill? We

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knew Larry and his current wife and Larry wanted to learn to play guitar. So I said, oh, I'll teach you not knowing anything about teaching since I taught myself. And he said it was probably the most traumatic thing that he ever went through. He's amazed that

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he, first of all learned how to play guitar and second of all that, he still wanted to, you know, be with me later on. And then did you end up using, did you gravitate towards some of the songs that you had performed previously with Bill or

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did you kind of come up with a new, like, repertoire? Mm. Pretty much the same. But just like now, if there's a new song that we really like, we'll learn it. Um, where did you and, um, Larry end up playing same places, Anderson Fair, um, clubs

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and, and eateries that were opening around Houston. Um, goodness need to call him in here. Where do we play just Restaurants Anderson Fair? That's all. And then we moved to Austin. Ok. So, before you, before you moved, um, you were actually working through this whole, through

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most of this whole time, correct? Like, keeping a regular job. Yes. Yeah. How was it, like, kind of keeping that balance of, like, nightlife plus a 9 to 5 job hard and a child too. Yeah. Yeah. Lot, lots of people do it. I, I have a

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friend who's a fabulous musician and he's also a librarian. That's interesting. Uh, sleep deprived nights. That's when you're young you've got more energy. Right. Right. Um, I see. Just trying to think about because there's more to you than just being a musician. So I'm trying to

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kind of bring that out a little bit. Um, let's see. Did you find it, um, I guess, did Larry also maintain another job or was he kind of, was he kind of doing sound as a way to make money during that time or? No? He had

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full time jobs. He was a geologist and then went to law school. Ok. Full time jobs. Full time jobs. All right. Um, ok. So playing was definitely something for fun. A career endeavor that we had to drop everything and, and try to sing. No. Ok. But

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when I was married to Bill, I remember one month we made $50 and I said, ok, this won't work. Yeah. I mean, I think it, yeah, it must have been really, it's hard now to do it and I can imagine it was hard, especially it, it

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was also hard in the past trying to make that. Yeah. Um, ok, in that time that you, when you were, when you continued playing, so you're starting in the late sixties and playing through, um, the seventies. Can you talk about how the venues changed over that

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time? Perhaps how the audiences changed? Hm. I think it depended on the club owner to direct how they wanted the audience to react. Some places like Anderson Fair, uh would not tolerate noise if, if you were talking, you get a tap on the shoulder and asked

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to leave. So other places like you said, uh that, that Sea Club um were very loud and it was just fine as far as the, the owners were concerned, uh how they changed. Yeah, think it depended on the owner. Ok. So another thing to think about

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is how did the other singer songwriters change over time? Hm. Well, I remember Lyle Lovett at Anderson Fair when he first came to sing from A and M uh was so humble and quiet and, you know, still he is. But, uh, we told him, Larry and

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I told him that we just loved his songs and, and we would really like to learn them. And so he made a tape, a cassette tape and gave it to us and we still have that tape. I don't know if we have a tape player. But

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we still have the tape. Uh He went on to uh be quite famous and Nancy Griffith was somebody that sang there and I got her to sing harmony with me on one night on one song and Larry was there and recorded it. So I still have

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that. And of course, Nancy went to Nashville and got famous. Do you, did you have, you has, because I know that Larry has digitized, um, some of the reels that you had. Um, did he ever digitize that cassette tape? Probably. Ok. We've done all of it.

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What should we try? Should we try to sell it? No, no, no. If you wanted to donate the audio, I could totally get the audio or if you don't have a way to digitize it, I can, I can digitize it. I just wanted to let you

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know, ok, in case it's just so because eventually that little, that little felt it that's inside will fall off and then it won't be able to play anymore. And so got you. It's got, it's got a limited lifespan, um, long but limited. Um, ok, so when

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did you end up leaving Houston? 80 9, 90 I'm counting. We moved into this house in 92. We lived in Austin for a year, 91. So somewhere around 1990 91 came to Austin and we looked around for a house and land. Larry wanted away from the

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city. And uh, so we moved out here in 92 dripping springs. So you just want more land. Did you just want to get out of Houston? Which seemed like others from your time period? Also wanted to get out of Houston. Is that true? Don't want to

00:32:44.660 - 00:33:08.930

be able to reach out and touch your neighbors where, where we are now, we have to really look to even see, uh, a nearby house. We love it. Um, and so then, um, what happened with your life from then on when, after he left Houston, after

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I left Houston, I went to work for the Attorney General's office and I was there for 20 or 25 years. Um, the only playing and singing that I did was at church, uh, joined the choir. We had a praise band. I had 68, 10 members played

00:33:30.369 - 00:33:52.890

on Sundays. Uh, and then for some reason I can, oh, I know I started doing open mics at, uh, some venues around here and finally convinced Larry to start playing and singing again because he had not touched a guitar in 10 years, at least. So we

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did that. And now we try to play several times a week anyway. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Like, where did you play? 00, no. We play in our house. We, uh, uh, before the pandemic hit were, uh, playing at local venues, clubs.

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Um, we played a liquor store once but that was something that surprised me moving up here. Is that if you have doors and they open, you have music, people play music everywhere. Yeah. So, do you, when you play now, do you just kind of get your,

00:34:39.919 - 00:34:56.889

um, use that big old songbook, I think? You know? Right. And do you just kind of select some for the night? You kind of put together a set list or do you, uh, things that we're familiar with, of course, come first and I want to learn

00:34:56.899 - 00:35:22.229

a new song and it's like pulling teeth to get Mr Brea to learn a new song. Hello. Um, and so I guess fortunately we, we know a lot of songs from, I don't have to learn new ones. So, are you looking forward to performing when, when

00:35:22.239 - 00:35:42.979

things get better? Sure, sure. There's a one special place here. Uh, a brewery. We know the owners and we played there before all of this hit and played at one of their other locations. The, that one's called Aca Brewing and the other place they own is

00:35:42.989 - 00:36:08.899

the barbershop and it, it was a barbershop before it became the barbershop bar. Ok. Hm. There's lots of music going on at, at the barbershop, um, picker Circles and things like that. Now, if I'm remembering correctly, don't you also do something with Eve Festival, a folk

00:36:08.909 - 00:36:32.800

festival in your area? Oh, we dearly love the Dripping Spring Songwriters Festival and it was canceled this year. Um, we're we're sponsors of it. We just love it so much. People come from all over the world literally, uh, to perform and they don't get paid. They

00:36:32.810 - 00:36:53.860

bring lots of C DS to sell. And I've tried to, uh, tell friends of mine that if you sell 100 C DS that will be, you know, just like you got paid maybe more. No, there are, there are people that say I won't play anywhere unless

00:36:53.870 - 00:37:12.860

I get paid. Sorry. Hm. Well, yeah, I would assume that it would, it, it would be very costly to deal with all of those payments so that it, it makes sense. But people give their time and then attempt to promote their own materials. That, that makes

00:37:12.870 - 00:37:36.659

sense. Yeah. There are about five venues in, in downtown Dripping Springs that would host the singers and they do around like, every 45 minutes, three singers would play and then they'd go to another venue, play there for 45 minutes. And so you, as a observer could

00:37:36.669 - 00:37:52.219

just sit in one chair and see most of the performers. You, you could follow your favorite around to the different clubs, but otherwise just sit there in that chair and have a beer. Is that what you usually do? Do you have just kind of, do you

00:37:52.229 - 00:38:08.179

just kind of stake out a place and you just kind of stay there and wait for the people both. You know, if we've got, got a favorite and we've come to know them, then we'll, you know, follow them around. But, yeah, at the, the Aon brewing

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at the end of the bar there are two chairs and, and they say, mm, those are for Larry and Lucille. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Well, do you, do you feel like there is anything else that we should talk about that? You have, we have not talked

00:38:29.800 - 00:38:55.860

about, or? Yeah. Uh, waiting for this nonsense to be over with. We literally have, have not gotten out, you know, maybe once or twice since March. Um, so we got a sound system. We got songs just about ready to get out. Yeah. No, I, I'm Yeah,

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I'm, I'm sorry that you're having to, to stay in and, um, but it, it messes with your ability to perform, which I'm sure that you, of course enjoy doing. Yeah. Hm. But that's why I go ahead and try to play regularly at home. Do you, do

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you, would you like to play anything that you normally that you enjoy playing? No song storm? I am for, with very stranger. This, well, there's no sign all the danger that drive what you have. I'm going. Mhm. And my father go in

00:40:20.790 - 00:41:26.870

there. Lord, I'm only going jo let me get you. I'm only going Yeah. Over. Yeah. Three. Every child. This fun. Never the song. I share the clothes, self denial and my, oh my God, I'm going in there. See my daughter I'm going there. Oh, Lord, I'm

00:41:26.879 - 00:42:21.909

only going the Children and I'm only going I, oh, a kill, I'm only going no home. Yeah. Um, my gosh. Well, is there anything else that you want to cover that? You feel like we haven't? Mhm. It, it might be time to go to the brewery

00:42:21.919 - 00:42:43.560

and get a beer. Oh, all right. Well, um, I thank you so much for taking the time, uh, to do this interview. Um, I really appreciate it. Thank you very much for asking. That's a real honor.