00:00:10.619 - 00:00:27.879

My name is Nori Guthrie from the Woodson Research Center at Fond Library at Rice University. I am interviewing Linda Lowe. Today is December 7th 2018. This is part of the Houston Folk Music Archive Oral History project. Can you tell me about your early life? Whoa, how

00:00:27.889 - 00:00:53.020

early wherever you want to start? Wow. Uh You wanna start in high school? It's, it's totally up to you early life. Well, I was born in Hot Springs, Arkansas at the Army Navy Hospital. Turns out that the doctor who birthed me was the grandfather of Kip

00:00:53.029 - 00:01:08.790

Millie who I wound up taking to Houston, who was my guitar player. Uh, when I first Hit Anderson Fair in 1976 or 77. And we didn't have any idea of that until we were on the road together. And we mean, I mentioned that I was born

00:01:08.800 - 00:01:23.680

at the Army Navy Hospital. He said, well, my grandfather used to work there and sure enough, he's on my birth certificate. So that's sort of the story of my life because it's all connected in that way. It just seems like everybody who's ever crossed paths or

00:01:23.690 - 00:01:45.330

it's just seems like it's been like that serendipity. So, can you tell me a little bit about what first drew you to music? Probably my first stepmother who played a lot in, in San Antonio. I was raised when I was five years old. My, my mother

00:01:45.339 - 00:02:00.919

left when I was two and my father was in Japan. And so, uh we lived in foster care for like about a year or two till he could get back to the service. And then we moved to, um, San Antonio, Texas Brook Army Medical Center, uh,

00:02:01.169 - 00:02:13.740

where he was one of the founders of the, the lab there. He was a laboratory technician for the burn ward. So we lived on the base for a while. So I'm an army brat, which is why Nancy Griffith and I got along so well because she's

00:02:13.750 - 00:02:31.380

also a service brat. We went on the road for briefly to go to Arkansas and Tennessee. Um, but, uh, so, yeah, we live, I lived in San Antonio and, and the first, uh, stepmother Betty, she, she played a lot of Glenn Miller and a lot of

00:02:31.389 - 00:02:49.880

country songs and she just loved music. So I heard a lot of music at that point at that time, my dad was in Africa and then, um, did that kind of, did that love of music continue through into high school, et cetera? Well, what happened was

00:02:51.259 - 00:03:08.949

I was riding my bicycle on street, headed to the stables where I worked horse stables. You know, every little girl likes horses and, uh, to ride for free, I would walk the horses and Ricky Ware who's a, a DJ for KTS, a radio. Somehow. I don't

00:03:08.960 - 00:03:25.539

know how I met him there, but somehow I did, he asked me to come down and do a, a commercial, a radio commercial on bicycle safety. And then I got to be friends with a lot of the DJ S at, at uh KTS a radio and

00:03:25.550 - 00:03:44.330

I started babysitting for them and then they started giving me box loads of 45 records uh along with some pay, I'm sure. And um so sixties, I mean, gosh, mid sixties. There you are, you're in Motown. Uh I got a lot of Motown, Sandy Shaw, a

00:03:44.339 - 00:03:59.800

lot of um uh you know, the current hits back then and I had them right off the press. So I got to be the first ears of a lot of the up and coming music of my time when I was that young. So it inspired me

00:03:59.809 - 00:04:18.230

to become a writer. I wrote a lot of poetry back then, even in my early, you know, before my double digits, I was writing poetry. And then, um so you, when did you first um begin playing music and like actually crafting songs and, or moving kind

00:04:18.239 - 00:04:40.750

of film, writing poetry to um lyrics. Well, so in high school, I worked for Rockefeller and I went on the road with him and tiny towns of Arkansas Winthrop that is. And um I'm at Scooter Davis. So I kind of got into, you know, first hand

00:04:40.760 - 00:04:57.450

into musicians on the road and she let me ride in her limousine with her band members. Um It was a lot of fun actually. And I didn't like ride in her limousine to the gig, but she always had me sit in the, in the limousine and

00:04:57.459 - 00:05:15.119

talk to them a lot. It was a lot of fun and I, and I got to feel very comfortable around musicians. Um But I, I didn't start hearing music with my lyrics until I was working with Jimmy Dean as his national time buyer. And he used

00:05:15.130 - 00:05:33.149

to read poet, my poetry. He loved my poetry. That's why I got a job there in the first place and uh a national time buyer. I bought all of this radio and television time along with Lila Sandler um for commercials. And I would go to the

00:05:33.160 - 00:05:47.649

studio while he did commercials. By the way, Jimmy didn't, he just did it straight off the cuff. He didn't have anything to read. He was such an amazing person to, he was a great mentor to me. And he, and he told me when I started hearing

00:05:47.660 - 00:06:00.100

music that I was cursed and that I had to go buy a guitar. So he's the one who talked me into buying my first guitar, which was a Guild Mark Four that I got at boys music in Little Rock and it's a classical guitar and I

00:06:00.109 - 00:06:14.850

taught myself how to play. And within a year I was playing professionally all original songs in Little Rock. Did you draw upon the poetry that you had written before to help craft the lyrics or? Did you write new music? No, they, the new, it just came,

00:06:15.320 - 00:06:33.690

the new, uh, poetry came with completely composed of melodies. Yeah, it was amazing. It was a, it was completely, I had nothing to do with. It was a gift. You know, I didn't really, I didn't set out to do it. I never set out to be

00:06:33.700 - 00:06:52.579

even a poet or a songwriter. I just was one which is kind of weird, but Jimmy Jimmy, I had a lot of fun with Jimmy Dean with writing songs. So, did you, did you, did you uh play songs to him all the time? Yeah. At work.

00:06:52.589 - 00:07:05.459

Yeah. Well, he, we read poetry to each other all the time at work too. Yeah. He was a great mentor and just to make sure that I understand this. This is Jimmy Dean as in Jimmy Dean, the country singer. Yes. So the sausage maker and the

00:07:05.470 - 00:07:19.739

sausage, I had to avoid the sausage. But yeah. And, and also I was there when he, and one of the reasons that I realized that you don't have to go to work a 9 to 5 or 8 to 5 is because uh, one of his team

00:07:19.750 - 00:07:39.820

members, he decided Jimmy donated a lot of his, uh, uh, skin from, um, pig skin to the burn ward at Brook Army Middle Skin or other Army medical Center and other hospitals to help burn patients. And then he started a line of, uh, coats. I don't

00:07:39.829 - 00:07:53.709

think it went over very well. But, but we had, I had, I did meet his staff of people that were designing the coats and they would come in at like 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock and stayed till like 12. And I said, why weren't you here early?

00:07:53.720 - 00:08:02.450

And they'd say, well, you have, you don't have to be here at any certain time, do you? And I said, well, yeah, I do. And he said, no, you don't, you can, you know, it's better to work late at night when nobody's here because then the

00:08:02.459 - 00:08:17.089

phones don't ring, you get a lot done. And sure enough he was, they were right and, and Bill Holland allowed me to do that. So I started changing my hours to more nighttime hours where I would come to work, uh, nine o'clock or at the latest

00:08:17.100 - 00:08:38.520

10. But it was pretty good since my job was a lot to be wined and dined by reps from radio and television stations. Um, so can you kind of talk a little bit more about what those early days performing were like for you in Arkansas? Well,

00:08:40.380 - 00:08:52.090

I guess I knew a lot of people doing what I was being in the ad agency. I think Jimmy probably used to pay people to come hear me or they draw straws at the office to say because I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. I

00:08:52.099 - 00:09:08.309

was a terrible singer, but I hooked up with Mary Gwyn who played a Martin, uh 12 string. She was awesome. She had a gorgeous voice. So she had the voice and I had the songs and together we were able, she, you know, she helped me learn

00:09:08.320 - 00:09:24.020

how to singing, I, I suppose and hit notes. But I never sang be I sang because I had to, to get the songs out. I didn't sing because I was a singer. I became a singer, but only only because I felt the song was warranted being

00:09:24.030 - 00:09:43.280

heard. Um What were some of the venues that you played at during that time? The leather bottle in uh in Little Rock, which is, it was a great place to play. A lot of politicians and uh movers and shakers ate there and then they had this

00:09:43.309 - 00:10:01.969

holding area with a living room no bigger than this room and couches in a, just a like a half circle couches and you basically, it was like this, I could talk to the audience like I'm talking to you and I learned how to deal with an

00:10:01.979 - 00:10:17.989

audience very easily because there were all the barriers were down there. You would just had to be real or you could, you know, it was, it was quite an experience and I'll never forget it. And I really do compare a lot of the, the things I

00:10:18.000 - 00:10:43.289

do now to that room by bringing it more personal. So why did you decide to move to Houston? What, what happened to precipitate that substation? Number one, when I didn't have a home was uh Bill Hames house and um, he knew and played at Anderson Fair

00:10:43.299 - 00:10:56.700

and he knew Lucy Moore and she was staying at his house. And so was Steven Gerrard, who, you know who Steven and Francy are? I'm sure. Um, and so I met Lacy and she said that, well, there's a cancellation at Anderson Fair. Why don't you come

00:10:56.710 - 00:11:15.409

down and play? And so I did, this is before Tim took it over. So I did. And, uh, with Kip Millie, my guitar player and we were booked for two days, but we stayed six months and it was a real bizarre thing because I was very

00:11:15.419 - 00:11:34.489

green straight arrow. I don't, I think I may have, may smoke a little cigarette. Sometimes not, but I wasn't totally addicted even to cigarettes. But when I got, came to Anderson Fair, um, they just had this ritual. I don't know if you've heard about the ritual

00:11:34.500 - 00:11:50.469

or not. It's called Hot Knives. I've heard about the Hot knives. Well, so I'm on stage and then all of a sudden they start shutting all the doors and the crowd stayed, they didn't leave but they were locking the crowd in and I didn't know it,

00:11:50.479 - 00:12:10.820

but that was like an initiation. And you became a tribe member when they pulled out the hot knives. So, um, yeah, 48 hours later, I never repeated a song. Um, but I, but I played music 48 hours straight. Oh, wow. And then I went to rock

00:12:10.830 - 00:12:27.070

Romano's house, Doctor Rocket and he let me stay on his floor next to his heater where I burnt my guitar by the way, Louise. Um She's OK but she does have scars from it, but rock was awesome. He lived on Crocker Street, a real fine house.

00:12:27.080 - 00:12:46.489

We all hung out there actually. And then Francy and Steven actually, then it was Francy and Roger owners of Anderson Fair lived in the garage apartment. So it was just a constant music, music, music, I mean, and then we wound up in Welburn College Station and

00:12:46.500 - 00:13:01.309

I, I don't know, we just kind of wound up everywhere and it was a six month whirlwind. Can you talk about the vibe at Anderson Fair when you, when you got there? Because you, you said that, you know, there was The Hot Knives. But what was

00:13:01.320 - 00:13:24.820

it like? Pure magic? Uh And Anderson Fair was just a Mecca for songwriters. I felt like immediately, see, I thought I was the only songwriter because in Little Rock, a lot of people were doing, uh, copy songs, they weren't playing original songs, but I didn't play

00:13:24.830 - 00:13:39.549

music to play other songs. I played music because I was writing music. So it never occurred to me even to play a whole lot of other songs. Although I did play some people that I like a lot. Um So when I went to Anderson Fair, everybody

00:13:39.559 - 00:13:56.869

was a songwriter. And then after we did all of our other gigs at La Bodega and, and Hands and places in, in the Montrose. Um Then we all congregated back to Anderson Fair to hang out and play music all night long. So it was um who

00:13:56.880 - 00:14:17.770

is pure magic, who was there at the time uh in the audience or just or um Yeah. Well, in the audience, well, first of all, I announced to the audience that I was gonna perform a song. I had no idea who the author was. But if

00:14:17.780 - 00:14:33.869

anybody knew, could they please tell me because I'd like to give the author credit for having written this beautiful song called No Place to Fall. Of course, the entire audience yelled out towns fans at it. And then I went, wow, you guys know who this person

00:14:33.880 - 00:14:52.099

is and they said, yeah, you're at Anderson Fair. So Lucinda, I think was in the audience. I know Eric Taylor Don Sanders, Bill Cade Bill Kay wound up on stage with me for like three days. Um Just a whole, a whole lot of people who Lyn,

00:14:52.109 - 00:15:09.669

probably Lynn Langham was most likely there because Lynn and me and Lynn and me and Lucinda and Nancy were, and, and Connie Mams back then too were five of the women who performed a lot at Anderson Fair. And that's something because women didn't often at that

00:15:09.679 - 00:15:23.429

point get Friday and Saturday nights. Well, you know, it was, in fact, when I was on the road with towns, that's what he said. He said it's a shame. You're a woman. I said, why? And he said, because it's harder on you to get Friday and

00:15:23.440 - 00:15:48.979

Saturday nights. And I said, well, yeah, but I'm with you. So, hey, I got Friday and Saturday nights. Yeah. What, what was it like being, um, being a woman there at Anderson? Yeah. Well, considering Francy and Lucy were running the place. It was awesome. It was,

00:15:48.989 - 00:16:11.590

it was a beautiful Anderson was a beautiful experience. Um, for the most part, um, there were some trials and tribulations. I mean, I crossed 33 state lines to get away from it at one time. Um, so then when did you actually end up moving to Houston

00:16:11.599 - 00:16:30.780

and making it your home? Um, well, that, that's six. Well, hm, at that time I was, uh, my roommate was Dorothy Palmer, who's Robert Palmer's sister and Robert Palmer became my producer. Dorothy was a music critic for, um, the Arkansas. It was either the democrat or

00:16:30.789 - 00:16:45.150

the gazette. I can't remember which one? But, and I know I paid rent at our house for a long time. She used to send me a letter saying, are you ever coming home? I kind of got stuck in Houston Malcolm Smith used to who I would

00:16:45.159 - 00:16:57.469

travel with and he played violin with me. He would say let's don't get too close to the Houston. We'll get that magnetic pool and the black hole is gonna engulf us and we won't be leaving, we won't be able to get out of there in time

00:16:57.479 - 00:17:13.589

for winter. We gotta go, you know, so Houston had that pull because there was a lot of camaraderie going on at the time. Um There was a, there was a big music scene in the seventies in Houston and it wasn't anywhere else. Uh We didn't have

00:17:13.599 - 00:17:34.588

it that going in Arkansas at the time. So did you, um, so maybe you ended up here around 76 77. Ok. You know what, the day I arrived. Uh This, this is just the way things happened to me a lot. But the day that I arrived,

00:17:34.598 - 00:17:53.520

uh I think Hobart Taylor was doing a piece on the music scene in the MAOs. And so he took a picture of me and, and Bill came and, um, and so we were in the lifestyle and entertainment on like a Sunday, you know, or Sunday edition

00:17:53.530 - 00:18:09.989

of it or something. And it said Linda, well, the new girl in town. We have that photograph. Oh, wow. The actual photograph. Wow. I'd love to see a copy of, I'd love to get a copy of that. Wow. Yeah, that was, that was the very day

00:18:10.000 - 00:18:24.880

that, that, that was the very day I hit. Well, no, I lied. That's not true. Because prior to that I was in Houston on the road with Wildwood. But that's the first time I performed in Houston. But I, I went on the road with Wildwood in

00:18:24.890 - 00:18:46.839

1975. And we performed at the railhead and my husband of all of eight months was the manager and I was the sound person. So I worked the sound at the railhead. So I was here, but I was in a, in a different capacity. Um So when

00:18:46.849 - 00:19:09.800

you went ahead and settled here, um we talked a lot about Anderson Fair. What were some of your other place, favorite places to play? I like Hula Hands. Um I like Cory. I like La Bode but, and um the other very strange performance that I had

00:19:10.089 - 00:19:32.250

that I think made a marked difference and totally sea change in my life was when um after Tim Leatherwood took over Anderson Fair, he booked me into uh the Jefferson Davis Psychiatric uh convict Ward to, to be the, the Christmas program. That was quite an experience

00:19:32.729 - 00:19:49.599

because when I got up there, I had a bodyguard next to me and they were as close as you are and they were saying things like, um, Linda play Bahama Mama. I mean, that was my audience. And so I kind of freaked out about that to

00:19:49.609 - 00:20:07.729

know that. Whoa, what am I doing? I'm playing to all these people who, wow, I wouldn't want to get off the stage and have conversations, I don't think with convicts. Plus you're, you know, you're leaving at two o'clock in the morning by yourself. Right. But I

00:20:07.739 - 00:20:19.910

had a, I had rolled in the wonder dog. So I had a bodyguard but saint in a dog suit. But still it was. And then they were writing me notes saying I'm just like you get me out of here. And it was the only time I

00:20:19.920 - 00:20:39.670

was ever on stage where I really felt uncomfortable. So I literally stopped performing for a minute and I decided to go back to Arkansas and I read the Alexandria quartet, got a job building, uh, football bleachers and swimming pools with one of my high school friends

00:20:39.890 - 00:20:56.579

just to take a break and recalculate and look at all of my music and say, what, what is it that I'm doing to attract? I'd rather attract more family oriented audiences. So, II I took anything that had to do with drugs or alcohol out of my,

00:20:56.589 - 00:21:18.839

uh, song selection and started writing different songs about what year was that? Well, I think that had to have been probably, uh, maybe in the eighties. Ok. I'm not sure, when, though, at all, it's a blur. It's a big blur. So some people are really focused

00:21:18.849 - 00:21:34.099

in on dates and remember those and then some people are not. I never, I never had a plan. I just went wherever. I mean, I remember one time I was in, I went out to get a pack of cigarettes in Arkansas and I went to this,

00:21:34.109 - 00:21:49.260

uh, store and ran into another music critic, Jack Hill, um, with one of the newspapers there and he, he said, hey, we're going to uh Saint Louis. I said, you are, what are you gonna do? He said, we're gonna see a group called Squeeze. Have you

00:21:49.270 - 00:22:02.859

ever heard of him? I said, never. I said, you wanna go and I said, sure. And I just jumped in the car and took off and went, you know, to see some group named Squeeze and, and they got, um, we weren't even able to hear them

00:22:02.869 - 00:22:20.390

because there wasn't enough power in, in the building to accommodate that group. We wound up partying with them, the hotel that we were staying in, they turned out to be Towns Vanzant fans and I think they were Willie Nelson fans. And so I, I picked up

00:22:20.400 - 00:22:44.300

a really good vintage Towns Vanzant album at one of those vintage stores. So to me, that's the reason I went was to get that album. So I did. So there was no plan. That's ok. Uh So since you just mentioned um Towns, um what kind of

00:22:44.310 - 00:23:09.000

influence did he have on you? And what was he like? Wow. Um I met Towns through Darryl Paris who I was dating at the time and Phyllis Ivy in Clarksville. And um it was, he just became, he was like a brother to me and he kind

00:23:09.010 - 00:23:25.079

of took me under his wing. He was the kindest, most considerate, sweetest person in the universe. He was just a doll. I mean, he, he did so many things for so many people that nobody ever talks about, which I can't believe nobody would talk about how

00:23:25.089 - 00:23:41.689

sweet and kind he is. But, um, well, maybe they do, you know, but some of the things I've read, they didn't, um, I never even saw town's drunk for the first couple of years. I knew him, uh, he, he was just an awesome person. I remember

00:23:41.699 - 00:23:55.400

him putting money into Phyllis's purse when she wasn't looking like he'd go do a gig and then he'd come back with $100 bill and stick it in her purse. He would just give you the shirt off his back. In fact, he did give me his pick

00:23:55.410 - 00:24:12.739

bag. Uh, I think that, oh, did I give you that? Did I ever give you the, uh, um, DVD? It is that little pick bag that's in that DVD. Um, when he gave me that I didn't know it at the time, but he actually had given

00:24:12.750 - 00:24:28.550

away just about everything he gave Blace Foley. I know all of his, uh, cassette tapes which included Emmy Lou Harrison, Rodney Crowell and a bunch of rough mixes and stuff at the time. I think, uh, Pancho left. He was just now beginning to take hold for

00:24:28.560 - 00:24:46.500

him. But, uh, touring with towns, the reason I toured with towns in the first place was because Darryl called and asked me to come get him because he was, I guess acting up in Austin. So me and Lacy took off in my LTD. I can't believe

00:24:46.510 - 00:25:02.339

we made it their gas car. Um, and we, but we got him out of uh Austin took him to my house in Melwood Street and um then to his mother's house so he could get some glasses, but he was kind of in a really bad shape

00:25:02.349 - 00:25:13.160

at that time. And then I went ahead and I thought, well, the only thing to do is book him on a tour to get him out of this funk. So I booked him into Arkansas and he and I and Mickey White took off and, and did

00:25:13.170 - 00:25:32.119

a tour, Arkansas tour and I ended it, it, uh UALR fine arts concert hall which didn't turn out so well because um, he kind of felt he started getting drunk, but that's another story. But we survived it. And during the whole tour, he was a prince.

00:25:36.010 - 00:25:50.520

So I had the privilege and pleasure to go on the road with towns fans and he sort of adopted me and I became kind of like a little sister to him. And it was like one of the most beautiful times of my life and I'll never

00:25:50.530 - 00:26:39.020

forget it. And he taught me a lot. Um, one of the things he taught me was to, by the way, I wrote a song for many songs, but this one is called Sky Ride. Patient. You and your time, listen music, you make it right? Whiskey and

00:26:42.150 - 00:29:31.599

use up your time. It's working right? What? It's like, well, the strong, that's weird. Long time. If you get to are, if I had the to cease anxiety, rent build you a see she drop from to I see. Keep

00:29:31.609 - 00:31:17.599

Safe. It's black. I phone you, I was Mold you. It's 10 I and Love you. Bye. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so in the 19 eighties you began releasing albums. Can you talk about your recordings? Oh, yeah. So Gambling With The Wind is the

00:31:17.609 - 00:31:35.349

first one. that album, I'm trying to figure out how I even got started on that album. I don't know, I guess people were asking for because some people were asking for my songs and I didn't have an album and back then you had a record album

00:31:35.359 - 00:31:54.050

or nothing because there wasn't anything else. There wasn't a cassette. Well, maybe there were the, uh, the little cartridges that, but so I just, um, I went, I wanted to do it in Hot Springs, Arkansas because I wanted to go where I could be still because

00:31:54.060 - 00:32:09.150

I was never still, I was just everywhere all the time. And, um, I knew that if I could, you know, stay at the lake house or whatever and be, I could probably get a lot done. And I did, I found a recording studio there and then,

00:32:09.160 - 00:32:25.560

um, Robert Palmer, I talked with him and he wanted to be on it too. So I took the masters around with me. I took it to New York and Robert Palmer got the talking head studio in New Jersey, Edgewater. And we went over and put his

00:32:25.569 - 00:32:45.119

parts down and then I took it to Ronnie, uh reps my, at the time, he played uh banjo and my upstairs band. Um and he helped me in Houston the studio. And so he, he produced that part of it. So it was kind of collaboration between

00:32:45.130 - 00:33:01.619

a lot of the musicians that I worked with. And I really loved doing that album. It was great only I never was in voice because I was constantly having to do the work of putting an album together to be a producer, to get the money to

00:33:01.630 - 00:33:17.349

the studios and organize the travel and all that. I didn't have time to actually sing until I got into the studio. And so I'm not real happy with a lot of my vocals. But, and in the end, you either release it and go on and mark

00:33:17.359 - 00:33:39.260

the time or it never gets released. So I released it. Um Can you talk about some of your others? Let's see what came after that? I don't know the order that half of them came. But, uh, probably it was so far, it was either even the

00:33:39.270 - 00:33:57.920

moon or so far apart, probably so far apart. Uh, because I won the Curville Folk Festival with a song called Blow Out The Light. And the reason I wrote Blow Out The Light was because I got really tired of singing Irene. Good night. There are some

00:33:57.930 - 00:34:14.149

lyrics in there that are questionable and if I was gonna clean up my act and try to. So I, so I decided I'd rather leave people with a happy thought. Keep your spirit right? Uh Rather than Irene Goodnight. Although I love Irene Goodnight. It's a wonderful

00:34:14.159 - 00:35:32.949

song, but I just wanted to flip it and leave people with a, a happier thought closing. Tell everybody right. Blow out your when we tell settle up is the because to is a right. Love the drink, a

00:35:32.959 - 00:36:54.270

dream. Bye the Lord at I love how on your you back in, I jump off the man. I take the ups with the down. I was here. Be a dream. Anyway.

00:36:54.280 - 00:37:12.949

So that's where I met a Gillette at the folk festival when I won that. And then uh he and I got together and put together a tour, uh, on the east coast and the west coast played folk City, Manhattan. I think it was near Halloween because

00:37:12.959 - 00:37:33.050

people were in costume walking around. We wound up in Woodstock where I met Tony Rice, who also wound up in one of my other albums. No, he wound up on that so far apart. So that's pretty cool. Anyway, so far apart, my husband, Carl Callaway, uh,

00:37:33.080 - 00:37:50.840

produced it and we recorded it in height sound. I wasn't married to him at the time, but uh later married him, but, but he got involved in that album. And then even the Moon, I recorded after I met Li uh Loudon Wainwright because I was, I

00:37:50.850 - 00:38:09.189

had put down music for a while because I had a baby. I had Michelle, my wonderful joy, joy of my life, my hero. Uh So I was opening, I was the opening act, one of them at Rockefeller in Houston. So I met uh Loudon Wayne Wright

00:38:09.199 - 00:38:30.590

and Donovan Bonnie, Ray Jessie and Young got to open up for some killer people. It's the best gig ever because you can stay in the music business, raise a family, play your best 20 minutes, get paid handsomely to a full audience and hang out with the

00:38:30.600 - 00:38:48.100

best people and have a blast. Wow. And then be home by 10 o'clock. It was awesome. It was really, man, I highly recommend being an opening act. Anybody who wants to do it right? Takes the pressure completely off of you, but loud and Wayne Wright. And

00:38:48.110 - 00:39:03.100

I used to talk all night long when I would open up for him. Uh, and he told me, I told him I didn't think we could, I could continue to record and, and actually get out and tour because, you know, the family, he said, I said,

00:39:03.110 - 00:39:17.520

and then my husband at the time was an engineer and he was touring with a group, um, and out and said, oh, no, me and my wife, we, you know, we have a little girl and when she tours, I take care of the little girl. And

00:39:17.530 - 00:39:35.659

when I tour, you know, she takes care. So, so they worked it out and he told me to go put my name on the studio and start recording even the moon because he loved that song and I was too talented. He said, just not record. But

00:39:35.669 - 00:39:49.760

I, I, I'm fond of that song. I'm fond of that album. Actually. It, it's a good album, even enjoyed it. But Rick Gordon played a lot of guitar on that album too. There's a lot of good people on that album, Sisters Morales, I think. Um, uh

00:39:49.770 - 00:40:13.919

I'm pretty sure Lisa was on it anyway. There's some good people on that album. So, what is your writing process like? Hm. Well, I write every day because I, you know, I, I teach kids. Um, well, not just kids. I teach everybody. We have, uh, writers

00:40:13.929 - 00:40:35.280

in the round, uh which just started in 1990. And um the purpose of that after having talked with towns and lots of other people who became alcoholics. Um I knew that back then, it wasn't a matter of bringing a songwriter through or so songwriters, it was

00:40:35.290 - 00:40:50.629

a matter of venues that were appropriate for songwriters that were listening rooms where people actually listened to the song. And back then we were playing clubs where the focus was mainly on selling alcohol. And then you were sort of encouraged to write songs that compelled people

00:40:50.639 - 00:41:07.780

to want to drink. And so the focus wasn't on the songwriter so much so except for Anderson Fair, of course, and some listen, every, every city had at least one listening room. But, but there should be more, you know, there should have been more listening rooms

00:41:07.790 - 00:41:25.580

for songwriters. So there are a lot of songwriters and not enough venues. So I was sort of involved with a movement to help songwriters, um play more wholesome venues where it's fam we were beginning to have families and getting a little older at that time too.

00:41:25.750 - 00:41:41.870

And I just, I, I don't know, I got together with first the Mucky Duck for a while and then Main Street Theater, I just became um a series at Main Street Theater. Um We formed a nonprofit called Writers in the Round and Concert Series and it

00:41:41.879 - 00:42:00.060

really did help. We got uh involved with a lot of other people who had like minds that were doing the same thing in house concerts. And then Uncle Calvins and Jefferson Freedom Cafe in Dallas. Um, uh, there were just quite a few other, even the Cactus,

00:42:00.070 - 00:42:20.030

I think sometimes. But I think this was, even before I started playing the Cactus. But anyway, it, it was, um, it was a project to, to change the way, uh, people could go and hear music from songwriters anyway, um, from the 21st century. And so that

00:42:20.040 - 00:42:34.679

we wouldn't have to play bars so much because no matter what, if you are raised in a bar and you're 14, 15 years old and you're playing music because you love it. Yeah, a lot of times you just wind up, people tip you with a beer

00:42:34.689 - 00:42:49.699

or a drink, even if you don't drink, they still tip, they still tip you drinks. I remember one time I had like, 10 alcoholic beverages lined up behind me at the leather bottle that I didn't touch, but they were just lined up. So I started ordering

00:42:50.159 - 00:43:12.429

and coffee and, uh, then I just started not drinking at all because it was ridiculous. So, what were some of your favorite writers on the round shows? There's so many of them, anything trout fishing in America did. And in fact, I brought you a present for

00:43:12.439 - 00:43:28.120

your daughter. Um, I went to see trout with my daughter Michelle at Deck and, uh, they gave us a, a Christmas album. Oh, ok. Cool. So, I'll, I'll give it to you for your daughter. Ok. Um, of course. And he Towns, that was cool because Towns

00:43:28.129 - 00:43:43.810

played every year for me. We had an agreement that he would always be sober after the little rock gig. And, uh, and he, and he honored that too and he always came with a dozen red roses, a smile on his face and a stuffed animal from

00:43:43.820 - 00:43:59.580

a shell. So it was just fine. Anything that Towns did I think I put him with him. I put him Vince Bell. I think once I think I, I know I put him with Robert Palmer because I wanted Townsend Robert to meet because Robert, when he

00:43:59.590 - 00:44:17.330

was working on a book for the Rolling Stones, um, I turned him on to Towns. I said, hey, listen to this. This is in Arkansas. I'm going way back now. But, um, out of context, I guess. But that's how I got the round how I put

00:44:17.340 - 00:44:33.709

Towns and Robert Palmer together. Anyway, Robert just fell in love with Towns music. And he was gonna, he would have written something really cool for Towns in the Rolling Stones or, or the New York Times, but it didn't happen. He passed away, but he passed away

00:44:33.719 - 00:44:49.709

actually during the time that we were actually working on one of my albums that he was producing. Um, it's a very sad time. But anyway, Towns passed. He passed and so did Malcolm of three people that at the time I was kind of working with. It's

00:44:49.719 - 00:45:13.419

a very sad time for me. Um, but that's how I got Towns and Robert together is through, uh, turning Robert on Towns. I mean, he just really listened to every album. He loved him. So that was really cool round. Um, can we, uh, I didn't earlier

00:45:13.429 - 00:45:30.790

when you mentioned Malcolm Smith, I didn't ask you any questions about him. Could you talk a little bit about him? Malcolm Smith? Oh my God. Another, he's another brother, Malcolm played violin with me and Flamenco guitar on the road and he became like truly a brother,

00:45:30.959 - 00:45:49.159

uh, his whole family. We were an extended family. Becky Smith. I still play with Becky on the road with women in the around. I love Becky Smith. She's so amazing. She made her mandolin. She's an amazing player. Um, but anyway, so Malcolm and I toured together

00:45:49.169 - 00:46:08.989

a lot and, um, I guess they lived in Montrose way back in the seventies and, and they, he played with a group called, uh, Cypress Swamp Stopper. They were awesome. Do you have anything on them or you should if you don't, I don't, there's no audio.

00:46:09.219 - 00:46:26.620

Um, they pop up on calendars and things like that. But beyond that now, Becky might have something I'll talk to her for you or you can talk to her, but I'm sure she's got something somewhere But yeah, so Malcolm, uh Malcolm, I guess he was also

00:46:26.629 - 00:46:43.399

my arranger because I didn't know it at the time. I didn't know there was such thing as an arrangers, but apparently I had one because he sure did do a lot of arranging for my music on stage. I just didn't know what to call it. Um

00:46:46.600 - 00:47:04.550

So you mentioned the women of the round. Um So why did you form that group? Because we were always on the road and we were always playing in the same places, but never at the same time. And even if we were in the same town, like

00:47:04.560 - 00:47:23.040

I remember Lucinda being around the same time I was around, but we never got to see each other because we were always playing somewhere else. So I just felt that we need the, the camaraderie uh to get together and I just chose my favorite people to

00:47:23.050 - 00:47:41.979

play with. And I missed, I never missed not, I never missed performing. I miss the camaraderie of sharing music with the people who wrote music, my friends and new people as well too. But um so being at a writers in the road concert back then was

00:47:41.989 - 00:47:54.010

like being a fly on the wall. It was great. It was a good place to be. I think we did some really fine shows and it turns out it was igniting a lot of, a lot of other people were thinking of the same thing which is

00:47:54.020 - 00:48:16.020

why a songwriters Paradise was written for uh you know, the, what Texas Highway magazine uh was to show all the new venues popping up to help musicians get through uh Texas and, and, and play some really wholesome uh gigs and performances. Now, the one of my

00:48:16.030 - 00:48:40.330

other favorite ones was um introducing David Bros into Towns. Uh David already knew David Ham and Towns already knew David Rim. We all knew David Amri who doesn't know David. But, but putting them together was just pure magic. It was amazing that the, well, you, I

00:48:40.340 - 00:48:56.020

guess you would have had to have been there, but it was a fine night to remember. A lot of cool things happened after that too. Do you want to talk more about that? Well, it wound up that, that uh David wound up after Towns passed, uh

00:48:56.030 - 00:49:14.679

recording Townes's unpublished poetry. And one of the reasons for that is that when Towns was, uh, on his way out of this world, I talked with him several times on the phone. In fact, he was scheduled to perform at riders in the round, but he passed

00:49:14.689 - 00:49:36.800

away. Um, well, so heavy. But anyway, uh he was reading me his poetry over the phone and I couldn't tell if it was actually a song or just poetry. But because back then I had a thing called Call Notes. And every time I talked to somebody

00:49:36.810 - 00:49:54.699

to try to get him in the round, I was, you know, you have to orchestrate the logistics of getting these people together when they're so booked and, and at the same time, it was, it was a juggling act, you know, with um working on schedules and

00:49:54.709 - 00:50:08.129

stuff. So I would type all the things that they were saying and I was saying, and I noticed that Towns, a lot of what he was saying was reciting poetry. So, uh I read it to uh David Rosa over the phone because I was trying to

00:50:08.139 - 00:50:27.409

get Towns and David back together. And um I did mention to Towns that if he wasn't feeling strong enough that maybe David and him could that, you know, because David did that with American poets. He got with American poets and he, and he composed music and

00:50:27.419 - 00:50:45.689

worked on their songs. And I think Time of Trains is one of the amazing albums that David wrote that we released at uh mainstream theater anyway. So Towns was kind of up for that. Um And anyway, it wound up happening 10 years later, but it did

00:50:45.699 - 00:51:11.330

happen. Um Why did you begin teaching music to Children? Because somebody asked me to and I could not say no to this person. They were tight, tight, tight friends. Um Well, one of them was Patsy Graham asked me to teach uh Sarah Graham, her one of

00:51:11.340 - 00:51:27.250

her kids, I wound up teaching both of hers. And Patsy Graham was a tremendous mentor and a person who supported a lot of musicians and helped give a lot of them their start, uh, had Morgan Stearns in College Station. She's an amazing person. She wound up

00:51:27.260 - 00:51:48.280

being a partner of mine and Mike Sumler later. Uh, but, um, also, um, several of the, uh, families in West would call, they said, well, you know, can you, I had a record company then in a publishing company with Patsy and they asked me if I

00:51:48.290 - 00:52:04.560

would teach their kids. And I said, well, ok. And I did it and then all of a sudden there was 50 of them and then all, and then I realized there's no music in schools. They weren't teaching music at the time. They were kind of eliminating

00:52:04.629 - 00:52:26.280

art and music. And don't, don't you remember, did you ever have like the flutes to teach you how to play music when you were going to elementary school? We had flutes and there the recorders. Yeah. The, I had a complicated elementary school thing where I ended

00:52:26.290 - 00:52:43.489

up transferring in around fifth, fifth grade to a school. I think the previous year they did recorders in fourth grade. And I had come from a private school where we didn't really have much music instruction rather than just singing. And so, um so I never got

00:52:43.500 - 00:52:57.810

to do the recorder but I did like, pick up an instrument when I was in seventh grade. Yeah, I mean, back then you, you had music and you had art. I mean, you had a well rounded, I thought back then. Anyway, what, what, that's the six

00:52:57.820 - 00:53:12.739

fifties and sixties. Um, anyway, so I did say yes. And then when, when, when it became too much for me, there's too many, too many. And they were incredible. These kids were really hungry for music and, and not only that they were gifted and talented and

00:53:12.750 - 00:53:31.770

they learned fast. Uh they were passionate about it and I loved doing it. It was a lot of fun and to teach. So I started calling my friends um I know Joe, Joe Romano. Um and then I got uh Susan um Elliott to, to come in

00:53:31.780 - 00:53:53.790

to teach voice and then Bill Cade and um Henry Dereg and wow. Well, there, there was a, a lot, there's like 13 teachers, Aaron Wright, she's an amazing bass player. But when, whenever anybody would ask, well, can you, do you know anybody who teaches upright bass?

00:53:53.800 - 00:54:06.989

I would call a say, hey, come over here and teach upright bass and she did and most of those people now are teaching in colleges. They didn't want to teach at the time because we don't think of it. But then when there's a need and, and

00:54:07.419 - 00:54:26.699

they were good at it too. So Maryanne Willis who uh she was married to Greg Harper, you probably have his a, his archives here. I'm sure Greg um with the Gypsies and Marianne, I think I gave you Maryann's uh collection of books she wrote for Mel

00:54:26.709 - 00:54:47.419

Bay. You came and picked them up at writers in the round. Um I don't violin books. OK. Maybe they, I took pictures. OK. That's the only reason I know I'm a picture taker. Uh So, yeah, so she started teaching violin and then Dave Zieger came in,

00:54:47.429 - 00:55:03.139

he worked with the ballet and Ruth Seeger teaching cello. And so it just turned in to be this thing. It's, it was a organic growth that happened out of a need. And I just kept saying yes, but it became a runaway train. And I just, you

00:55:03.149 - 00:55:18.560

know, it's just a lot, a lot. It's a lot to do. So I still love it though because every morning I get up and I, I get to write songs with the purest of hearts and they come up with amazing songs. I love it. I have

00:55:18.570 - 00:55:31.669

a blast with them. And plus you don't have to deal with a record company. You don't have to deal with the music business. It's great. You just go in and write a song. And so I write songs every day and it's easy to me writing songs

00:55:31.679 - 00:55:50.629

is like breathing. It's, it's not, it's never been hard. It's not a discipline. It's just something I do. And I've always done. So, do you think of the tune first or the lyrics? It just comes however it comes, it do they generally come together? But usually

00:55:50.639 - 00:56:04.409

for me, it does all come together but sometimes once it to bloom in a melody will come and I don't have a lyric for it and sometimes I'll collaborate a little bit. But for the most part, they, it all comes together. Do you like to write

00:56:04.419 - 00:56:23.370

about personal experiences? Are you inspired by other events? Well, for me, writing is like a conversation to put to music. And so it's just a moment in time and it's whatever thought processes you're going through at the time or whatever is going on in your life

00:56:23.379 - 00:56:44.969

at the time. And it's just a little piece of history there in that little moment. And then sometimes uh it gets on a record before I kind of ask my final question. Is there anything that you want to talk about that? I haven't asked about anything

00:56:44.979 - 00:57:05.830

you want to go into? Um Well, I, I do have quite a few albums coming out that I'm ready to release. Now, one of them is called um well, a bar Bar Hart will act. OK. I'm supposed to be in the studio this weekend with Rock

00:57:05.840 - 00:57:25.250

Romano to get this thing out. But Fitzgerald's is closing, you know about that, right? So, of course, Doctor Rocket has to play that. So we have to cancel my session because I put all the spotlight band members from writers in the round together to, to sing

00:57:25.260 - 00:57:42.199

on and let him go gently, which is a song that I wrote to help people get through the death of a loved one. And, uh it's a duet with Hans Tai. Um, and it's gonna be on this album and I really want the spotlight band on

00:57:42.209 - 00:57:58.879

it because I feel like these kids have, well, they've been a big part of my life, helping them to become singer songwriters, not have to play clubs, showing them, you can put concerts together and you can play listening rooms, but you can do it on your

00:57:58.889 - 00:58:11.439

own terms and you can still go to college and you can still be a musician and you can be a great writer and you can do songbooks, you know, all that. Uh, we put together for them before they even go to college. So by the time

00:58:11.449 - 00:58:31.229

they go to college, they've already done a lot of what college teaches you to do. But so that, but the other thing is that they, we're doing our 30th anniversary for writers in the round, uh, starting next October through the following October. And I've called quite

00:58:31.239 - 00:58:45.050

a few people to see if I could get an, ok. I am trying to get a hold of Mickey White by the way, if you happen to know his number. But, um, um, yeah, trout fishing said that they would do it, Ray Wiley if I can

00:58:45.060 - 00:59:02.729

schedule it around his schedule because he's everywhere. Now, uh David Brosa is gonna do it. Um, let me think of who else, Bill Hames is, is gonna do it. The reason that I start decided to, we better do it because I want, I wanted Steve Young

00:59:02.739 - 00:59:21.189

there and he passed away. All these people are passing away that are, uh, wonderful friends who I miss and I just can't believe they're not here. You know. So I said better late than never. I better do this. And at least, and we're, and we're doing

00:59:21.199 - 00:59:39.320

it at Main Street Theater. They remodeled. They just went, uh, you know about that. They just went down to the concrete basically and rebuilt it. It's awesome. So, we're gonna go back there which seats maybe 100 people. And, uh, if I, if I did anything bigger

00:59:39.330 - 00:59:58.000

than that, it would be hopefully him and ha because I would love to go back there. Arlo Guthrie was another great show that I really enjoyed and Loudon Wainwright at, at, um, Main Street Theater. Did you, did you ever go to any of those? No, I,

00:59:58.010 - 01:00:13.000

I, I've only been here for 10 years. Oh, ok. Well, well, you're gonna go to the 30th anniversary. I'll give you a season pass. You'll have to go anyway. I, it's, I'm real excited about getting together and sitting down with everybody and playing music again. Wildwood

01:00:13.010 - 01:00:29.489

reunion will be there and Sean Walters, um, there's gonna be a lot of cool people. I'm, I'm gonna, I'm really en enjoying the process of putting it together, but I realize that, that it, it's gonna take me a whole year because everyone schedules Carolyn Hester too

01:00:29.500 - 01:00:54.600

because she tours with her daughters now. Well, um, you know what all I can say is what a magical ride it's been and it's been a pure blast being a songwriter in this day and time. I, I've loved it. I want to thank you so much

01:00:54.610 - 01:01:12.459

for coming in and sitting down and telling me your story. Well, thank you. And you know what, thank you for what you're doing because, you know, you're really bringing to light something that has made a difference. The seventies, what a, what an amazing time to be

01:01:12.469 - 01:01:30.919

a songwriter, especially in Houston, Texas and what you're doing by, by archiving so many songwriters who a lot of people, you know, once you know what, 10 years down the road would have never have heard them and their songs are timeless. So, thank you.