00:00:01.000 - 00:01:17.000

Alika Jimenez: Hi, I'm Alika Jimenez. I'm a second year student at Rice University, and I'm a researcher on this project. Leyla Meek: Hi, I'm Leyla Meek. Alika Jimenez: Amazing. So my first general question is if you have a tribals affiliation, if so, what that is, and then stories like anything about where you grew up and what is home to you. Leyla Meek: Okay. Well, I'm a Texas Cherokee. I have ancestors on the Cherokee immigration rolls, but my DNA test came back with a little surprise in it. Apparently a lot of us are mixed with Cheraw, which, that is another tribe that was neighbors with us in North Carolina. So apparently there was a little crosspollination going on, and several other tribal members have also had their DNA come back and tell them that they're also mixed with some Cheraw.

00:01:17.000 - 00:05:34.000

Alika Jimenez: Wow, that's so cool to know. When did you decide to do that sort of DNA testing? What prompted that? Leyla Meek: Okay, well, first of all, one of the first things I need to explain is I had no idea whatsoever that I was Cherokee until I'm doing my family history on ancestry.com, and then we traced it back and found ancestors on the rolls. And so that came as a surprise. My grandfather actually used to go around telling everybody that his grandfather was a Mexican, so he thought his grandfather was a Mexican. And as it turns out, nobody in the family is from Mexico, ever lived in Mexico. I think I might be the only one who ever even visited Mexico, but the Mexican ancestry turned out to be Cherokee ancestry, and I have ancestors on the roll, like number 147 and 148 on the Cherokee immigration roll. And so we were trying to figure out, okay, what happened here? How did the story get so confused? Leyla Meek: Because going through the paperwork, I at least know that my great grandfather knew what he was because we pulled up his World War I draft card, and he listed himself as both White and Indian. So he knew. So we were trying to figure out, okay, how did this story get lost? And my grandfather's grandfather, there's a picture of him and he's visibly a dark-skinned man, so we're guessing that he saw his grandfather who was obviously a dark-skinned man. Nobody ever mentioned being a Cherokee, so he must have just put it together in his mind. Oh, well then he must be Mexican. He must have just put that together. Leyla Meek: But then when we started digging into the history and finding out what happened to the Texas Cherokee, then we started putting it together. Oh, this is why it got covered up. Because see, we weren't supposed to even still be in Texas, the Texas Cherokee, they blamed us for a massacre that we never committed. There was something called the Killough Massacre: where what it was, it was a band of criminals. It was a very mixed race band of criminals. Some were black, some were Mexican. It was actually led by a white man. But they went and attacked a group of settlers and they slaughtered a whole bunch of men, women, children, and they had costumed themselves. They dressed up in costumes like Cherokee. They painted their faces like Cherokee: put on headdresses and everything and disguised themselves as Indians. And they went and slaughtered a bunch of innocent people, and we got blamed for it. And there was actually discovered when they finally caught them, there was only one actual Cherokee that was in the bunch. He was a Cherokee named Tail, who was actually on the same Rolls as my ancestors is on. His name is on there on the list. I'm like, “Oh, that's the guy that made all the trouble.”

00:05:34.000 - 00:10:04.000

Leyla Meek: But he had already been kicked out of the tribe. He had been banished from the tribe because they didn't want him because he apparently was a troublemaker or a criminal. So they kicked him out, and this is how he ended up with this whole band of justmixed race criminals, people who apparently had all been kicked out of their communities for making trouble. And they just all kind of got together and decided that they were going to pull off this rape, robbery, murder by costuming themselves as Cherokee. So they did that. And so the Cherokee got blamed for it. My ancestors were blamed for this, and Texas used that as their excuse to take all of our land from us. And we had millions of acres. We had 2.5 million acres of land, and they drove us off the land. And so finding that out, I was like, “Oh, well, then that explains why my grandfather's grandfather didn't want to say what he was,” but apparently my great-grandfather, he did know, and he put it down in his military paperwork that that's what he was, I guess because it was a government document and it was the military and he didn't want to lie. Leyla Meek: But my grandfather apparently had absolutely no idea what he was. And he just saw this dark skinned man and thought, “Well, I guess he must be a Mexican.” And I guess because we're in Texas, he just put that together on his own. But apparently starting from my grandfather on down, nobody knew. So the knowledge got lost with my grandfather. But I understand why, because I mean, they've blamed us for this massacre. And they even still have a monument out there that says that we committed this crime and we didn't. Leyla Meek: There's an article, I think it's called “Taking the Fiction out of the Killough Massacre,” where there was an eyewitness on the scene who when the supposed Indians attacked them, she saw this one man, he had a headdress and he had his face painted, and then she saw him lean down into a bucket of grain that they were stealing. And when he did that, his headdress fell off of his head, and then she saw his headdress fall off, and then she looked at him because it was a white man's hair. It wasn't an Indian's hair underneath that headdress. She looked at him and he looked at her and she looked him in the face. And when she was looking at him in the face, she recognized him. And not only was he a white man, but he was a white man that she recognized—she knew this man. And then when he saw that she was looking him in the face and that he recognized her and she recognized him, he turned and he took off running. Leyla Meek: And there's a few other people who figured out that this was not the Cherokee. And then when they caught them, obviously it was not the Cherokee, but by that time it was too late. Everything, the decisions had been made and we were driven off of the land. And it ended up getting a whole lot of Cherokee killed because many of them said, “Well, we refuse to leave because we didn't commit this crime. We didn't do it, so we're not leaving. And then plus, if we do leave, then people are going to think that we did it. They're going to think that we are guilty because we just left our land without a fight.”

00:10:04.000 - 00:14:58.000

Leyla Meek: So, there was the big slaughter of Cherokee that happened, and the Chief Bowles, he got killed and they didn't even bury his body. They just left his body out there. It was really horrible. So learning the history and learning what happened, I was like, “Okay, I kind of see why my family then did want to keep a low profile and really didn't want this information out there because people thought that we had committed this horrible crime.” I mean, they have a whole monument out there that still says that we did it, and it's now known that we didn't do it. Leyla Meek: And then also, I think they might've been afraid that they would've been told they had to leave Texas. They might've been told that, “Well, now that we know that your family's Cherokee, you're not supposed to be here. You have to leave Texas.” And then there's another issue that definitely needs to be talked about, which is another reason that the family history got lost. And starting from my grandfather, which is that we were kicked off of the rolls. The Texas Cherokee were once a part of all of the rest of the Cherokee. And as a matter of fact, there were two head chiefs over all of the Cherokee who were Texas Cherokee. So at one time, we were grouped in with the CNO, which is the Cherokee Nation, Oklahoma. The Texas Cherokee and the CNO were once all together in the same group under the same umbrella of all the Cherokee. Leyla Meek: But then what happened was sometime in the 1970s, the CNO decided to have a vote because they had enough of them that were on the tribal council that they outnumbered us. So because they had enough of them on the tribal council that they outnumbered us, they held a vote to remove the Texas Cherokee off of the rolls. So they cut us off of the rolls, and it's been a big problem of certain groups of getting together and cutting other Indians off of the rolls. And they're actually making a documentary film about it now called “You're No Indian.” It's very controversial because the tribes want to say, “Well, we can cut anybody off of the rolls that we want to cut off the rolls”. And also famously, the CNO who were kind of jerks, they also at one point cut the Texas, or not the Texas Cherokee, but the Cherokee Freedmen off of the rolls. Leyla Meek: So they cut the black Cherokees off of the rolls, but the government stepped in and made them put them back. But they have not made them put the Texas Cherokee back, but well, one of the reasons that this is kind of ridiculous that they have done this is because a lot of the people in the CNO, they're completely white. Now, the majority of them are totally, totally white. So we've got a situation where we've got a bunch of blonde, blue-eyed Cherokee who are telling the Texas Cherokee that we are not real Indians or that we are fake Indians, or that we're not authentic enough Indians because we're on a different roll than them. And it's like, yeah, but our blood quantum is higher than yours. We actually have color, and you are a bunch of blonde-haired, blue-eyed white people telling other people who have more Indian blood in us than you have in you that we're the fake Indians, or we're not real Indians, but that you're the real Indians.

00:14:58.000 - 00:18:33.000

Leyla Meek: So the whole thing is kind of ridiculous or comical really, if it wasn't outrageous—and I think criminal, and they've done this so that they can hog all the benefits for themselves. See, they get a stipend twice a year. They get money from the government, they get housing, they get education, they get healthcare, they get all of these benefits, and they are essentially white people who are getting all these benefits, government benefits for being Cherokee. Meanwhile, those of us who are actually more Cherokee than they are, get cut out and we don't get anything. So this also is a big problem that needed to be discussed. So do you have any questions for me? Alika Jimenez: Yeah, I mean, thank you for sharing all of that. I guess I wanted to ask, when in your life did you start learning this, and how did you find out all of this information? Leyla Meek: Well, I mean, I've had people ask me off and on in my life, “So what are you?” And I would tell 'em, “Well, I'm not really sure what race it is that I am.” So I thought, because I kept getting that question, I was like, well, I need to do something to find out. So the very first early DNA tests that started coming out, like, they were really expensive and they could only break you down into four different groups. I started taking those DNA tests trying to figure out what am I, since I have had that question. And then a couple of times I had people straight up ask me, “Are you Cherokee?” One time I was walking down the road and a guy was driving his truck down the road, spotted me, pulled off the side of the road, leaned out the window and said, “Are you Cherokee?” Leyla Meek: And I told him no, because I didn't know. So other people knew before I did. And then there was another time I was walking through a nightclub and therewas an old cowboy who he was sitting down at a seat and I was walking by and he pointed across the room at me and he yelled out, “Full blooded Cherokee.” And I said, “No, no sir, I'm not a Cherokee.” But he didn't believe me. And he pointed again and he said, “Full-blooded Cherokee.” I'm like, “No, I'm not.” The irony of this, well, one of the ironies is other people knew before I did because apparently I'm visibly Cherokee, although I just didn't know that that's what I actually was.

00:18:33.000 - 00:24:24.000

Leyla Meek: And the other irony is I used to make fun of people who said that they had the Cherokee Princess grandmother. I used to think that that was the biggest joke in the world. I was like, everybody thinks that their grandmother was a Cherokee. And then it come to find out that I was, but it didn't come through a grandmother. Well, I mean, I guess distantly it did. But the two ancestors that I have on the rolls, they're both men. It was a pair of brothers that came to Texas. But yeah, I started doing the DNA test because I wanted to know what I was, because I didn't know what I was. I mean, I was mixed with something, but what was it? So I did the DNA test, and then I did the family tree, and then that's how I discovered I had ancestors on the rolls. Leyla Meek: Now, one of the first things that popped up in my ancestry when I did the family tree, there was a woman on there that was called Molly Wolfclan, but I didn't put that together as being Indian. I thought that her family's last name must have been “Wolf”. That's what I thought, that her family's last name was “Wolf.” And then they must have been known as the Wolf clan. And then I had a woman who contacted me and said, “Oh, I see that you are descended from this brave Indian woman, Molly Wolfclan.” And I was like, Indian woman? And then I was like, “Oh, that's been sitting there on the family tree this whole time. And I never put it together.” That Wolfclan meant that she was a Wolfclan Cherokee, but I didn't know that. But I did find a lot of really interesting family stories, that woman, what happened to her, she married an Englishman who was an Indian agent because they encouraged these marriages. Now, an Indian agent was somebody who was authorized by the US government in order to make deals: like land deals and trade deals with the Indians on behalf of the US government. And they were actually encouraged to take Indian wives because she could translate better. Leyla Meek: It was to create ties between the US government and the Indians. And this was also good for the Indians because when they had somebody go and speak with them in the halls of government, this is somebody that was intermarried with them who had a wife and children with the tribe. So these were political marriages that happened, but she was married to this Englishman and she had some children with him, and then her father came to visit her, and they were going to take the baby now that it was big enough to sit on a horse to go back to the Indian village so that the baby could meet the family to meet the rest of the family, and so that the tribe could see the baby and visit. So she had recently given birth, so she was riding a little bit slower, she was riding behind, and then her father was upfront and he had the baby with him. Leyla Meek: So the baby was riding in front of him, and then she was following behind, and then they were riding to the Cherokee Village, and they saw what they believed was friendly Indians. They thought it was friendly Indians, so they were riding up towards them to speak with them. And then when they got close enough, it turned out these were not friendly Indians. This was an enemy tribe. So quite tragically, they killed her father and they killed her baby. But because she had been riding a little bit of a distance behind, her father was able to turn around and yelled out at her: “Run, girl!” So she was able to turn her horse in enough time and take off running, but they still shot at her from behind. It was either a gunshot or a spear, but she was injured in the arm. She was injured in the arm, and she was bleeding, but she managed to ride all the way home.

00:24:24.000 - 00:29:04.000

Leyla Meek: And she told her Englishman husband, what had happened: “They killed my father, they killed our baby, they almost killed me.” And then he hit the roof, essentially. He spent a great deal of money, and he got together a joint group of both English and Cherokee, and they got together and they attacked the enemy tribe. And so it was some retribution, some justice that happened. And then they established more strong borders on their land and said, “This is our land. This is Cherokee land. You are not to come here ever again.” So that was just one of the many very interesting stories that I learned when I researched my family history. Alika Jimenez: I mean, we have time, and I'd love to hear more if you have any other stories you want to share. Leyla Meek: Okay. Let's see. Alright, well, I've got two more that I learned because there's a lot of letters and a lot of my ancestors' names in these letters. One of them that I found, which is how we started making ties with the US and with the settlers, the Cherokee, my family had, because we were farmers. So we had our farm and we had all of our food stored for the winter. We had everything all stored up. And then we were attacked by an enemy tribe, and they stole all of our food. They stole all of our food that we had stored for the winter. And then because we had pretty good relations with the settlers, with white settlers, we had visited with them and we told them what happened when we were attacked and they stole our food, and they were aghast that this had happened. And so they helped us and they gave us some of their food. And then one of the wonderful things that they did with us is that they agreed to trade with us for weapons because they said, “Look, you can't just let these other tribes come up and attack you and steal all your food. So here's some of our food, and then also we will trade with you guns.” Leyla Meek: “We will sell you some of our guns so that you can defend yourself so that the next time this happens, and you will be able to protect yourselves and protect your food storage so that this doesn't happen again.” So that showed that they must have trusted us quite a lot to do that, to give us weapons, because I mean, we could have used those weapons to attack them. We could have taken those guns and turned them on them, or robbed their food or something. So the Cherokee started having pretty good relations with the whites and with the settlers pretty early on because of incidents like this, which happened because they considered us to be one of the five civilized tribes, and they were willing to trade things with us. And then another story that happened that was written in the letters that I was able to find, again, some of my ancestors’ actual names are in these letters.

00:29:04.000 - 00:33:17.000

Leyla Meek: They went on a hunting party with another tribe. So the Cherokee and another tribe said, “Okay, let's go on this hunting party together.” So they were on this hunting party, and while they were on the hunting party, they happened to come across some white fur trappers. So they came across these fur trappers. Well, the other tribe, the first thing that they said was, “Let's kill them.” And my ancestors were like, “What? They're not doing anything to harm us. They're just fur trappers. These men aren't a threat to us.” And then a big argument broke out. A huge argument broke out where this other tribe said, “Well, we want to kill them.” And my ancestors and the other Cherokee who were there in the hunting party said, “No, we don't see any reason to kill these men. They're not doing anything to us, and we have good relationships with the whites in this area.” Leyla Meek: “We don't see any reason why we should kill them.” So the big argument broke out. And then finally, we managed to convince the other tribe not to kill them. We're like, we don't want to start anything. We have good relationships with these people, which we've built over the years, which have been good. We want to continue having good relationships, and if these men get killed, something might kick off. We don't want to start anything because we don't want anybody coming after us. And these men, they're innocent men. So we manage to, during the course of the argument, convince this other tribe not to kill them. We're like: “Do not kill these men.” Leyla Meek: So we got them to release them, let them go. They haven't done anything. So once we convinced them to let them go, then we just ended the hunt right there. My ancestors were like, “We're going home. You guys are psycho. And by the way, we are not going hunting with you anymore because you're crazy. So we're leaving and we're not hunting with you anymore because you’ve ruined the fun. You've turned the hunt into something that was potentially dangerous and crazy. And so we're just leaving.” So my ancestors at that point, they went home, they quit the hunting party, and they never hunted with that group of Indians ever again. So yeah, that's a couple of stories that I was able to discover. Alika Jimenez: Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that. It's really cool how you have that knowledge ready to share, and I think it's great that you can talk about it and share that history with people. I'm kind of curious how you think that this Cherokee history and your indigeneity has affected your life and your identity. You mentioned that some people would recognize you as Cherokee before you even knew. And I'm kind of curious to hear more about how that felt like growing up, not really being kind of unclear about what you were and how learning that has changed things, if at all.

00:33:17.000 - 00:38:14.000

Leyla Meek: Well, let's see. It was kind of maddening growing up. It was frustrating growing up and not really knowing what I was. It was like this big question mark and frustrating. And this is why as soon as ancestry and stuff became available, I immediately wanted to utilize that. Let's see. Let's see. How did it affect me? Yeah, I mean, I just had multiple people asking me. Oh, and another thing I remember, what's interesting about this is I would have dreams about being an Indian before I knew. I would dream about it. I would dream about being an Indian man on horseback. Leyla Meek: And one of the dreams in particular, I had that I was riding directly into a storm. I was an Indian man, I was on horseback, and I saw a storm up ahead, and I was thinking in my mind, I'm going to ride directly into the storm and thus get through it faster. And it was a period in my life where I was about to enter into a very difficult period of my life where it was: many challenges were up ahead of me. And then I learned much later, actually just a year or two ago, that this is actually a phrase that the Cherokee have. They said that there's a difference between the cows and the buffalo, and the cow will run away from a storm. If there's a storm, the cows will run away. However, what the buffalo do is the buffalo, when there's a storm, they will ride directly into the storm. Leyla Meek: And the reason that the buffalo do this is because that's their way of getting through the storm faster. They get through it faster by running towards the storm instead of away from it. And I was like, “Oh my God, that's exactly that dream that I had when I was a teenage girl.” I was an Indian man. I was on a horseback, and I saw a storm up ahead. And instead of running away from it, I ran directly towards it because I'm thinking I'm going to get through it faster. And I had absolutely not only no idea that I was Cherokee, but that the Cherokee have this phrase, this is a quote that they say that's like a piece of Cherokee wisdom. And I didn't know anything about it, but I had dreamed it. And then another thing that happened to me is I saw–well, we're getting into the mysticism now–but I saw one of the Cherokee little people, and I didn't know what I was seeing at the time, so I'm about to cry. I didn't know what I was seeing at the time, but I was going through this phase in my life where I guess I needed to be brave or I needed more bravery. And then I wake up in the night where when you're in that state that's in between waking and sleeping, you can see things. And I do, I'm one of those people. I get hypnagogia. Leyla Meek: I've left my body before. And apparently that's the thing that Indians are also known for. If I get myself in a good meditative state, I can leave my body. But one of the things that happened to me is have at night when you're in between that waking, sleeping, I have the habit of I can sit out of my body when I get in that state, especially if I feel that something is in the room with me and I can see 3D things floating in the air. I mean, this is probably Cherokee mysticism, but this is what it is. So one night I had sat up in my body–sat up out of my body because I sensed something is in the room with me. And I saw, and he looked like a small Indian, he looked like a small brown skin, and he was wearing a loincloth, and he had the black hair, and he was an Indian, but he was little.

00:38:14.000 - 00:42:38.000

Leyla Meek: And I was, again, at this time, still didn't know what I was, didn't understand why I was seeing him. What is he doing here? And he presented himself to me. He wanted to show him himself to me, and he was showing me that he was strong. He was a warrior. He took this stance of–he was a strong, proud, a little warrior, and I'm looking at him and I'm like, “Who is he? What is he doing here?” And then he ran towards me. He ran at me, top speed running towards me, and then he leapt into my heart. He jumped into my heart, and then I could feel him moving around in there. He was, I don't know, clearing blockages or he was doing something. Leyla Meek: And then I'm realizing this was a time in my life where I needed to have more strength, but it's like he was putting strength into my heart. And then for the next several weeks when I would go to bed at night, I would fall asleep. I would have a dream, and then he would be in the dream. I would look over in the dream and he would be standing there, and I'm like, this little guy, he's entered my dreams. And this happened for several weeks. And then also I would see a light around me. I would be walking, and then I would look and I would see there would be a little light, a little blue light would flash. And I knew, I'm like, it must be connected to that little guy that I saw, and now he's entered my dreams. Leyla Meek: I don't know what this is. And then I found out many years later, the Cherokee have a story about the Cherokee little people, and that's exactly what they look like. They look like a small Indian, and you can see them sometimes you get in the right state or you're in the right place or time you can see them, and it's kind of like the Cherokee version of an elf or a leprechaun or a fairy, something like that. But we have them, and they're called the Cherokee little people. And I was just so shocked. I started crying when I found out. I'm like, that's what that guy was. That's what that was. I'm like, oh my God, I've seen one of those. So that this is another thing. I didn't know that I was Cherokee, but he did. He knew what I was, and he presented himself to me and showed himself to me. Leyla Meek: So that was another interesting experience. So there were clues all along. There were clues all along. But I should probably also mention that I am a seer, and there are others in my family who are seers, and that is another thing that I do as part of my profession. I give readings to people, I give them readings. I tell them things about their life. I give them advice spiritually. That's something I've done since I was about 14–long before I knew that I was Cherokee, long before I knew that it was even an Indian thing, I was doing it. So there are things that get handed down just in the DNA and I interpret dreams for people and things such as this. So I don't know, do you have any questions about that?

00:42:38.000 - 00:47:15.000

Alika Jimenez: Yeah, that's really cool. I kind of wanted to ask more about if that being a seer and that experience is something spiritual for you or something else. And I wanted to ask if you'd consider yourself spiritual at all, because a lot of the stuff you're talking about sounds kind of like almonds and dreams, and I'm curious to hear more about that. Leyla Meek: Yeah. Well, I mean, I also found out that, I mean, not only do I have the Cherokee coming to me from my father's side, but also from my mother's side. I have an ancestress. And her family was actually pushed off of their land that they had in Georgia in Jackson's Indian Removal Act, which is how they ended up coming to Texas because Texas was giving away land if you would join the Texas military and fight for Texas independence. So I have multiple ancestors who were in the war for Texas Independence. And I also have letters like those couple of stories that I told you. Those are stories that come from my father's side, but also from my mother's side. There are some stories in the letters where one of my ancestors, he self-identified as an Indian in his letters and wrote that they were riding through some of the villages, and they wanted to stop at one of the Indian villages where he had family there, but they were prevented from doing so because there was a sickness, there was a fever or something, there was an illness going around. So because of that, he did not get to visit with his family, and these letters are on file in the Texas Museum of History, so these letters are still there. But he ended up getting awarded quite a lot of land for fighting in the Texas War of Independence. So they had their land taken from them. So then they came to Texas to get more land. Texas was giving away land–probably repeating myself–if you joined the Texas military at that time. Leyla Meek: But yeah, the ancestor on that side of the family, she was 1/8th, but they would still remove you from the land even if you were an 1/8th. Even if you were only a 1/16th, they would still remove you from the land. So you were still an Indian even if you were an eighth or even if you were a 1/16th. But she was definitely a seer. And I did not know about her. Well, I knew about her through my intuition. I knew that this came through the family line somewhere. But this woman, she was exactly like me. Leyla Meek: She was a fortune teller by profession. She would read the tea leaves and she would have visions and things like this, and her name was Mary Elizabeth. What's interesting about her is she actually got accused of witchcraft. So she was accused of witchcraft because she was a seer, and it's something that came to her naturally. So yeah, it does come down through the family tree. I had been doing it for many, many, many years, and she was actually the one that I was looking for when I started doing my family tree, because, just intuition, I'm like, I know it comes down to the family tree somewhere and I'm going to find out where this comes from. And then I started talking to older relatives and making phone calls and contacting people on my family tree. And then I called this one relative of mine who–I met her through ancestry.com. I had never talked to her before–but I got her on the phone and I said, okay, I'm going to ask you this question now. I wasn't sure how she was going to take it. I said, “Is there anybody in the family tree that you know about,”

00:47:15.000 - 00:52:25.000

Leyla Meek: How did I put it, I said, “had maybe intuition or some kind of extra ability.” And immediately she said, “Oh, Mary Elizabeth.” Just immediately popped out with that name. I said, “Mary Elizabeth.” She said, “Oh, yeah, she was accused of witchcraft.” I was like, “Oh my God.” And then she started telling me all these stories about Mary Elizabeth that she would read the tea leaves and she would have visions, and for example, if there was somebody that was going to show up to the property, this is days before telephones, she would know. She would say, oh, so-and-so is going to come and visit us. And then they would drop by, and she was just well known for having these kind of abilities, and it got her into trouble. She ended up getting accused of witchcraft for it. So I'm like, that's where it comes from. Leyla Meek: And that is my fourth great grandmother. So it gets handed down. And then my grandmother also was me, where she would sit up out of her body at night, leave her body, have vision. She would know when things were going to happen. So it's just something that got handed down to the family tree. And then I finally managed to track down the source, which was just wonderful for me. I was just so, so ecstatic and just over the moon to be able to find out where it came from and to be able to trace it back. Alika Jimenez: Yeah, that sounds really exciting to finally understand where these abilities, I guess come from. I was curious if you have any specific memories where you were seeing something or doing this type of thing for another person. In terms of community, has there ever been a moment where you've seen something that you'vebeen really proud of or impacted someone's life? Or is it more of a personal thing? Leyla Meek: Oh my goodness, all the time. So many stories I could tell. Okay. Well, one: where I saw a friend of mine, I saw her… that she was in a small room and that she was surrounded by boxes. And then I saw this scary looking man who was disheveled, and he had kind of long hair, tangled hair, and that he lunged at her with a knife that he just came at her and was attacking her, and he had a knife in his hand. And I was like, oh my God. And then I snapped out of it, and then I immediately grabbed for the phone. First thing just rolled over, grabbed the phone, called her, and I told her what I saw. “It was a scary looking man. You're in a small room surrounded by box, a scary looking man. He had a knife he was coming at with a knife, and I really want you to be careful.” And she got real quiet and she said, “Well, I have a trailer behind my property and I'm using this small room, this trailer for storage. But when I went out there, I found that there was this homeless man who had been living in this trailer, and I told him, “You can't live here. You'vegot to get out. This is my property that you're on, and this trailer belongs to me. I am using it for storage.” So yeah, she had been bringing boxes out there, and she had had to remove this homeless man from her property. And then I told her, “Well, don't go out there alone. I want you to be careful because this man, he's angry, and he might show back up to that trailer and try to do something to you because you kicked him out.” And so after that, when she went out to the trailer, she made sure that she had somebody with her helping her when she was moving the boxes, and she also brought a shotgun with her in case anything went sideways in case the homeless man decided to return back. So I feel that that was a way in which I was able to warn somebody.

00:52:25.000 - 00:55:53.000

Alika Jimenez: Yeah, that's really impressive. I'm glad you were able to be there for your friend in that way. Leyla Meek: And one of my clients, for example, this is just recent, but I do this all the time, all the time, but this is one of the most recent examples. I had a woman that came for me for a reading, and I told her, “There's a court case that you're involved in and you are going to receive a sum of money from this court case.” Well, she didn't say anything. She didn't try to contradict me because I've read for her before. So she knows if I say something and it doesn't resonate, give it time. So she didn't say anything, but she at the time, didn't know anything about a court case and didn't know anything about receiving any money from a court case. So she was like, “Okay.” Then she came back to tell me later, and actually she left me a review and I'vegot all five star reviews, but she told me that she checked her mailbox. Leyla Meek: It was about, I guess three days later, she went and checked her mailbox and there was a check in there, and it said that she had won what was like $12,000, something like that. It was something in the tens of thousands of dollars. And it said that she had been awarded money from this court case, and she was stunned. She didn't know anything about a court case. So she said that if I hadn't told her that, she probably would've just thrown the check away and thought that it was not real or thought that it was some sort of an advertisement. She said it looked like an advertisement, and she would've thrown that check in the trash. But because of the reading that I had gave her, she double checked. She went and she looked up the case and she looked up the check and she verified it and validated it, that it was a real check. And it turned out that she knew that there had been an issue with her mortgage company, that the mortgage company had been overcharging people, not just her, but several people. Leyla Meek: And she knew that there had been some issue with that. But what she didn't know is that a lawsuit was taking place, that there was a class action lawsuit with her and all these other people that were being overcharged by the mortgage company. And so this lawsuit was going on in the background that she didn't even know about, and then they won the lawsuit, and then they cut everybody a check who had been overcharged by the mortgage company, and she had no idea about this until she got that check in the mail. And then she was very grateful to me, and she said, “I would've thrown it away. I would've thrown like $12,000 in the trash if it had not been for your reading, because that's what made me stop and double check this check to verify that it was real.” So that was another recent one.

00:55:53.000 - 00:59:34.000

Leyla Meek: And then another one I did that was kind of funny, was one of my clients, I was doing the reading for her. I said, “So congratulations on your trip to Hawaii.” She said, “I'm not going to Hawaii.” Said, “Okay, congratulations on the trip that you're going to take to Hawaii.” She said, “I've never even wanted to go to Hawaii. Hawaii is not anywhere that I've ever even wanted to visit.” I said, “Okay.” Said, “I don't know what it means. Just keep it in mind and maybe it'll make sense later.” So then she contacts me, I guess it was a week or two later, she said, “You're not going to believe what happened, or maybe you would.” Leyla Meek: She's a real estate agent. She said the real estate company that she worked for had a big meeting. They called everybody into the meeting. And then that's when the owner of the company announced that their real estate firm was opening up a branch office in Hawaii and that they needed several of them to go to Hawaii to open up this new branch office. And she said she busted out laughing at that moment, sitting at this conference table full of people. She was like, she just started cracking up. And she said that everybody turned around at the table and looked at her. They're like, what's so funny? She was like, “Oh, sorry. Excuse me. Excuse me. I just thought of something funny.” So that was an interesting one. Alika Jimenez: Yeah, that's crazy. I didn't realize how specific your, I guess, readings could get. And it sounds like it's led to some great situations for people because of your help. Leyla Meek: I could tell stories like that all day. Usually when I go, but usually when I go into a reading, I do what's called blind readings, which is: do not tell me anything. They don't have to tell me their name. They don't need to tell me why they're there. They don't have to tell me a single thing. And also, I don't have to be looking at 'em like my readings, not like I used to do them in person before COVID, like when there were fairs and festivals. But then because of COVID, I had to take my business online. So now I'm not, not looking at the person, I'm not hearing their voice. All I'm getting is their internet handle, which, that doesn't even have to be their real name. It can be just like an internet handle. And I have clients who I've read for them for years, and they've never said a word to me. They don't even say hello. They just purchase the reading, not one word. And they've come back month after month, year after year, and they don't tell me anything. Okay. Now go on. What were you saying?

00:59:34.000 - 01:03:28.000

Alika Jimenez: Yeah, no, I guess because I'm hearing about your offering services to other people, I wanted to ask about how, and since it comes from something that is connected to being Cherokee, right? I'm curious more about how, if at all, your sense of community has changed since reconnecting to this part of yourself, or if it hasn't, just how community plays a role in your life. Leyla Meek: Well, yeah. So once I was able to find my ancestors on the rolls and confirm everything and got the DNA test and everything, I reconnected back to the Texas Cherokee. So I rejoined the tribe now that I know what it is that I am. And yeah, it's been good to reconnect. And then also, we all have our DNA tests, so we'veall figured out that we're cousins. We're able to get on there and see that we're fourth cousins to each other, fifth cousins to each other. So I'm reconnecting back to family, back to the tribe, and looking at their pictures and everything. I'm able to see people who–they look like me, and I'm like, “Oh, wait, there's a resemblance.” And it's exciting because I'm able to look in their eyes and I'm like, “Oh, those are my eyes.” And yeah, it's really something. It's really–it's wonderful to be able to reclaim that part of my identity and to have a community. So yeah, it's been really great. Alika Jimenez: That's great to hear. I'm very happy for you that you've been able to find peace in good things. Out of that, I guess this is a broad culture question, and that can be about any part of your culture that you want to share, but just how do you keep your culture alive in your daily life, and how do you envision yourself passing that on to future generations? Leyla Meek: Well, when I rejoined the tribe and everything, and the head chief is my cousin, my direct cousin, I found out. So I'm like, “Wow, not only am I Cherokee, the chief is my cousin.” But especially when he found out about me being a seer and everything, because a lot of that is on my Facebook, readings and stuff that I've done. He sent me this package. He sent me a big package in the mail that it has a special stone in it that I started using in my readings that it helped ground me in my readings because I mean, it would be hard to explain, but the energy can get really high and kind of feel a little bit like too on edge or it's hard to describe it, but it's like an energy thing, when you raise too much energy. But he gave me the stone and it helps ground me.

01:03:28.000 - 01:05:54.000

Leyla Meek: And then he also gave me a necklace, and the necklace is for protection to protect you when you're in the spirit world. And then he gave me a really big white sage wand, which white sage, that's supposed to be like a closed practice. You're not supposed to use white sage unless you are a Native American, but the white sage is to help purify, like, your space when you do your reading or your work. And then I also got a flute, a Cherokee flute, which, that was really cool. So I've been given a lot of nice things, and I've incorporated that into my practice when I'm doing certain things. I might sage the room first. I might put on the beaded necklace first. If the energy gets too high, I might ground myself with the stone. So I've incorporated it into my practice. Alika Jimenez: I was hearing about the beaded work and stuff like that. I'm curious to know if art plays a role at all in your life. It does sound like your work has an element of that to it, but anything else you'd like to share about that? Leyla Meek: Okay. Well, I do paint. I do paint, and I work with clay. I do, I’m a clay artist, and also one of my cousins, one of my Cherokee cousins, he is not a tribal member. He didn't join the tribe like I did, but he is a Cherokee. He does paint, he does fantasy art, and he goes around and sells his art at different fairs and festivals. Alika Jimenez: That sounds really fun. Is the art that you do mostly just for yourself?

01:05:54.000 - 01:08:44.000

Leyla Meek: Myself, and gifts for friends. Sometimes my friends will be over at the house and they'll point at painting and be like, “Can I have that?” Friends will ask me like, “Oh, for my birthday, will you paint me this or that?” And I'm like, “Okay, yeah, I'll paint that for you for your birthday.” So I guess I save money on gifts that way. They just asked me to paint them something. But as for future generations, since I was kind of the one who was the family historian, I have made sure that I passed all this information out to my family. I've given them all copies of the documents. Here's where our ancestors are on the rolls. Here is our ancestors in the census report. Here's a copy of the DNA test. Here is our paperwork, our grandfather as World War I paperwork, listing him from white and Indian. So I've made sure that all of my cousins get copies of that. I text it to ‘em, I sent it to ‘em in the email. I am making sure that this information doesn't get lost again. Alika Jimenez: And you're doing great work. I think some of it, at least being on here means that even if it can't be tied back to you, the information is still going to be archived somewhere. So I have a few more questions, just a few more concrete questions, and one of them is about food. If you have any specific memories that stand out involving food or cooking, any favorite meals or anything like that? Leyla Meek: Well, my father used to make a bread, and I think that that bread probably is something that got passed down. From the Cherokee side. We make a Cherokee bean bread, so that would be a recipe. And in my family, we've had a venison before and made deer jerkies, so that also might be something that got passed down to the Cherokee, even though we didn't know it. Alika Jimenez: That's cool to hear. Alongside food, thinking about healthcare, I guess, how do you balance healthcare in your life? Is it more of a: going to the doctor? Are there more traditional practices? Is it a mix of everything?

01:08:44.000 - 01:09:35.000

Leyla Meek: Well, I eat very healthy. I eat very healthy, and I exercise and I eat more natural foods, nuts and berries and greens and things like that. And I mean, I take care of my health and like I mentioned earlier, it's a shame that the Texas Cherokee don't get healthcare because that's something that the CNO wants to hog all to themselves, but that's just one of the things that my people have been deprived of. Alika Jimenez: Yeah, that's really hard. Leyla Meek: Yeah. Any other questions? Alika Jimenez: Yeah. Is nature a big thing in your life, and if it is, are you able to find ways to spend time in it?

01:09:35.000 - 01:12:07.000

Leyla Meek: Oh yeah. Yeah. Several times a week I go to the park. I love to walk in the park. I've always loved being out in nature, being out in the woods. I have loved to do nature walks and hikes, just as early as I could remember. I could always feel the energy. I knew that I felt better being out in nature. So yeah, that's always been a part of my life. And I love to garden. I have a garden now, but see the Cherokees, we were a woodland tribe, so we were always a woodland people. So we just feel at home out in the woods. We were not the Plains Indians. We didn't live out in the plains. We didn't follow the buffalo. We were woodland people and there were some woodland buffalo, but they were smaller. Alika Jimenez: Yeah, I heard a little bit about that from another Cherokee respondent that I interviewed as well about the different sort of buffalo that different regions of people encountered. Other than that, I think those were my last concrete questions, so I'm kind of going to open it up to you and ask if you have any last stories or remarks or things that you want to share. Leyla Meek: Oh, just one more small thing that connected. I think this is one of the reasons that we were one of the more peaceful tribes. We weren't as warlike as the other tribes, is because we were a woodland people. So if you were out there in the plains, the environment was a lot more harsh and food might have been more scarce, but if you were one of the more woodland tribes, food was more plentiful. You could go out and forage. So we were probably a more peaceful people because food was not as scarce as it was for other tribes who are maybe in a more harsh environment. Alika Jimenez: I think that's a really good point to think about and raise, just how the environment can dictate how you behave.

01:12:07.000 - 01:13:17.000

Leyla Meek: There's a lot of studies that have shown that the environment around you, especially if it's a scarcity environment, that can shape a people and their personality and their histories. So we were more lucky that we were more surrounded by plenty. Alika Jimenez: Thank you for sharing that with everyone. I guess, is there any, not advice, but any last words that you want to share to people who are watching this? Leyla Meek: Just for them to know that we are still around and for everybody to know your history and know your ancestors and get to know your ancestors and get to know your ancestors’ stories, because that will tell you a lot about who you are as a person. Alika Jimenez: Thank you so much. With that, I'm going to end the recording and then I'll debrief a little bit.

01:13:17.000 - 01:13:22.000

Leyla Meek: Okay, alright.