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Today is July 10th, 2023. My name is Jocelyn and I am interviewing Dr. Lesa Tran Lu on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive. Dr. Tran is the executive director of the Institute of Biosciences and Bioengineering

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and also an associate teaching professor of the IBB in the Department of Chemistry. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to talk with me today. Thank you for having me. So, first, I'm just going to ask you some questions about your early life. So,

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when and where were you born? When and where was I born? I was born in 1985 here in Houston. And can you tell me about your household growing up, including the individuals you

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lived with? Yeah. So, I have a set of parents who were both Vietnamese immigrants and I am the youngest of three children in my immediate family. I have two older brothers,

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one who is six years older than I am and one who is four years older than I am. So, growing up with two older brothers, what was the household dynamic like? You know, as–as a youngest daughter, right, and only daughter of the family, it definitely had its very interesting

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moments. So, my parents were, and still are, very, very hard-working, blue-collar individuals here in-in Texas. And so, they started, as long as I remember,

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even perhaps before I was born, as just people who worked ten-plus hours a day. And so, when I came into the picture, it always seemed like we were—my brothers and I were always taking care of each other because, you know, because our parents were supporting us at their jobs.

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We barely saw them in our household. And we relied a lot on our–our neighbors and ourselves to, you know, raise each other, essentially, whenever our parents were not there.

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But we were always financially okay. And that's what we're super thankful for our parents for. But a lot of the growing up that I experienced had a lot to do with my brothers always being there for me.

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That's really admirable. So, what were your parents occupations and did they ever put you in any professional direction? Yeah. So, my–my dad

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was actually someone who started college in Vietnam, and he was training to be a botanist and I guess the eastern version of a pharmacist. But because of the Vietnam War, his education obviously halted.

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And unfortunately, when he came to the States, none of his education was carried over to the United States. And so, he and my mother, who happened to be, at that point, a high school dropout, came to the States with

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no–no degrees. And, you know, the classic immigrant story of nothing on them, but just a few bucks. Started at the very bottom of the business totem pole here. And so, they worked up the convenience store and gas station

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chain until they saved enough money to run their own little tiny convenience store. And that's when they caught the entrepreneur bug. And since then, as long as I can remember, they've always owned a business,

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whether it was a convenience store at the very beginning. And we also owned a fortune cookie factory. In fact, like, the only fortune cookie factory for, like, 13 or 15 years here in Houston.

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And then after that, my mom co-owned one of the bigger Asian grocery stores here in the Houston area, Welcome Food Center. And then now they currently own, I think, the only Asian market in College Station.

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Oh, wow. So, what values did your parents emphasize in your upbringing that you think still resonate with you today? Yeah. So, to answer—I forgot to address the other part of the question that you had just asked of, like, whether there are any professions that they pushed me towards.

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I think their definition of success is very much driven by how much work you put into your profession and therefore the amount of monetary benefit that you get out of it. And financial stability, I think that you–you produce on your own.

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And so, in many ways, their definition of success is—has a lot to do with, like, owning your own business because quite frankly, that was their own path that they created for themselves and that was their definition of an American dream. So, while they never really pushed

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me in a particular profession or like vocation per se, I think they've always nudged me towards, like, "Have you ever thought about owning a business one day?" or "Have you ever thought about opening something up?" whatever little tiny

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bug that gets into their ear and whether it's, like, a new restaurant concept or a bakery because I love baking or a tutoring company because I love teaching, they always steer it towards, like, "Stop working for somebody else.

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Have you ever thought about owning your own business one day?" But yeah, so, those are the principles that they've always steered us towards of, like, making it your own, working really hard so that you eventually have financial stability.

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Yeah, financial stability, I think, is definitely a big thing with my parents as well. But I love that your parents haven't really pushed you in any direction and just let you find your own path that you're happy with. [LTL: Yeah.] So, next, I have a few questions about your education.

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What was your early education like? Did you foster an interest in chemistry early on? So, I went through the–the Fort Bend ISD public school

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system, pretty conventional. In fact, I actually was an ELA—or, sorry, ESL student. So I–I always joke around with my family that ESL works so well for me that I almost never speak Chinese anymore.

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Right? Because I exclusively spoke Chinese when I—before I started school. But because of my parents being business owners, they wanted us, as their children, to teach them English, to get them ahead in the business world here in the States,

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as opposed to them imposing Chinese on us for the sake of culture. So, that's just a little tidbit about me. It's like I actually understand seven different languages, but I can't speak them very well because I just never had the

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drive to practice it, right? Because when I was growing up, I would always listen, but I'd never be asked to speak back and practice a different dialect of Chinese, for instance, that I can understand.

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But yeah, pretty typical public school upbringing, I think. And Fort Bend is considered one of the best school districts, I think, here in Texas. And in the absence of my parents pushing me to

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get good grades all the time, I think my success in school had a lot to do with peer pressure, right? Like, being raised in a neighborhood that had other families who prioritized academics.

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As for their children and me hanging out with them as my friends, pushed me to want to do well because I wanted to hang out with them. But it wasn't until high school when I started wanting to learn a little bit more about chemistry. And it actually started when I took summer school

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here at Rice. I took like pre-AP chemistry here at Rice because they offered it as a summer course and I caught the bug because I had a really great teacher in that summer class. Oh, that's nice.

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Yeah. Going back to Chinese really quickly, actually, because I can definitely relate to not speaking it as much as you hear it or, like, when adults speak to you growing up.

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So, what languages do you speak and which ones were learned at home versus through your education? Yeah, so, you know, English. But my first language was Cantonese and then Mandarin.

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I just kind of learned because, you know, most Chinese-speaking people here in Houston and around the world speak Mandarin. And, you know, there's a lot of words that are quite similar between the two. So, I kind of caught on by exposure.

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Teochew is another dialect of Chinese that I have learned. From what I understand, it's a southern dialect of Chinese and it is the base dialect for Taiwanese.

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And my husband happens to be Taiwanese. And so, it's very coincidental that I can actually understand a lot of what his parents speak at their own household because of the–the dialect my grandmother spoke. Spanish.

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Italian. Sorry, I'm just counting now. And Hindi is another one that I can understand primarily because of exposure. Again, in the Sugar Land area, I had a lot of friends of South Asian descent.

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And Portuguese as well because it's quite similar to Spanish and Italian. Wow, yeah, that's insane. I can only speak, like, English and Chinese

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when I choose to it speak at home. My parents trying to get me to speak more. [laughs] I mean, again, it's all about just like understanding and can I can get by by listening to people and just–just responding with yes or no?

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No, me too. Like, calling my grandma on the phone. I'm always like, "Oh yeah, for sure." And that's, like, the extent of my responses. That's right.

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So, going back to your education, you earned your bachelor's, master's and a PhD in chemistry at Rice. What appealed to you most about the field of chemistry and why did you choose to stay at Rice for all three academic degrees?

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So, this is the spiel that I give to all of my Rice students. So, I'm a divisional advisor at Sid. And it all started because of my own divisional advisor when I was at Sid about 20 years ago. So, being a child

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from Fort Bend ISD, you know, and we were bred to be very, very high achieving students in, in that area. I came in with enough AP credits where I was already placed at junior standing. I don't know how, but I ended up, during

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O-Week, needing to choose my major because back then there weren't a lot of—there wasn't a lot of flexibility with, like, substitution courses. Like, for instance, as you may know, like, physics.

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There are two types of physics, but technically you could just replace one for the other if you change your mind. If you want to go down more towards the pre-med route or the not pre-med route, But back in my day when I was at Rice, you had to choose one or the other and

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it was actually physics that I didn't take an AP course for or an exam for. And so, that was the course that I had to decide during O-week that would determine what I would major in at Rice.

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And, you know, as much as we tell our students at Rice, like, don't worry about majoring until your second year, it wasn't until, like, a week before I started college that I had to figure out what I wanted to do.

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And, you know, my own divisional adviser, his name is Lon Wilson, told me, "Don't worry, you–you got into Rice, which means that you have the ability to put your head and put your mind to do whatever you want to do. No matter what the path is, you have the ability to achieve it.

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Now, it's a matter of figuring out what path is most amenable to you and how you approach life. So, think about how you see the world and how you solve problems." And the way that he described it to me—and I already knew that I wanted to be more

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STEM-driven, whether I wanted to be more bio-related or living science-related or physical science related. And he said, "It doesn't matter which fields you pursue in STEM, but do you see the world or problems more like a top-down

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approach or a bottoms-up approach?" And this is a common way of thinking and approaching STEM. Top-down approach means, like, do you tend to like to take a survey of the world at large?

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And then whatever you find interesting, you could actually drill in and really specialize on that particular system or that particular organism or that particular phenomenon. Or you the other way around where you're bottoms-up, where you would rather learn the basic tools that are quite universal or

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translatable across whatever platform. And depending on what you're interested in, you build your blocks up to be able to achieve and explain and apply your knowledge to that particular topic of interest.

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And I said that–that one, I like the second one. I like bottoms-up. And he's like, "Well, that's how chemistry or physics tends to explain the world as opposed to biology, where biologists tend to look at the ecosystem or the environment, and that's how they're trained,

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and then they drill into different topics. No one way is right or wrong, it's just how you perceive the world." And it just so happened that my divisional advisor was also a chemistry professor. And he said, why don't—you know, and he's a very charismatic guy.

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And he was just like, "Why don't you consider, you know, studying and majoring in chemistry?" I was like, okay, I'll try it out. And I had already kind of liked it in high school. And yeah, so–so that's how I started on the chemistry route.

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And he also offered me a position to work in his lab here at Rice my sophomore year, my second year at Rice. He also was a great supporter of teaching and engaging with students.

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And so, I had told him that I've always thought about teaching as a profession too. And so, he gave me a lot of flexibility to not only work in a lab, but gave me recommendations of where I could possibly get more teaching experience on campus, whether it is, like, peer tutoring or,

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heck, I even worked at the Princeton Review to do, like, MCAT classes, teach MCAT classes, or go to the medical center to do little workshops with nurses or across town with elementary school students. So, all of those experiences, in addition to research,

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made me realize at the end of Rice that, like, I didn't have the patience to teach anybody under the age of 18. But I also really like teaching. And I really liked research.

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I really liked being able to explore something in the unknown and make it something my own and try to get down to something that works or something that's explainable. And I'm totally okay if a lot of things don't work, but I'm really problem-driven, right?

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Like, I will try my best to get to the answer or get down to the essence of it. And so, when it came time to nearly graduating and taking those aspects into consideration, I asked myself, "Well, what's the next best step? Well, to buy myself some time, I think grad school sounds great because it's

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another four-plus years of grad, you know, doing research. But it also is applicable to if I want to teach people who are adults, right? In higher education, I have to get a degree, a higher degree.

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And in grad school, I stayed with Dr. Wilson here at Rice because the research that I had done as an undergraduate was successful and at a point where they needed somebody to carry forward that project to the next step, which is more pre-clinical and

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clinical applications. And so, I didn't want to give it up, and that's why I stayed here at Rice and had a really great time as a graduate student in the research world. But that time came around again when I was ready to defend and graduate from grad school

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and I asked myself, "What do I want to do?" I still knew that I wanted to teach and I still liked doing science, but I didn't know how much science I wanted to do. But I put my application in every pool imaginable,

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whether it is for research-focused positions, or tenure track faculty positions, or teaching positions, or even science communication positions. But it actually wasn't until one interview that

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I had during–during my my job search for a tenure track position in another state during which my interviewer looked at my resume in front of me, and he was nodding his head and he's like, "Wow,

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this is wow, right? Like. You have quite a track record." And this job was actually for a teaching faculty position at that university. And he just looked at me.

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He was like, "Wow, this is, like, looks like you've done a lot. So, why are you throwing all of that experience away just to teach? "And something–something inside me just totally had a visceral reaction. And I defended myself.

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I was like, "Well, you know, that just makes me a better teacher to be able to relate more to science. And I don't necessarily have to do research in order to talk science to my students so I could spend more time with them." I think that moment I really did feel very

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strongly towards teaching over research, even though I knew that I could do both. And it also wasn't until that moment that, again, coincidentally, one of my mentors here at Rice in the chemistry department,

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he had recently accepted a position to become the dean of undergraduates here at Rice. And he is considered one of the best educators here on Rice campus. His name is John Hutchinson. And he approached me because I came to him only for teaching advice

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and education advice. And so, I told him I was in search for a job. It wasn't really thinking about staying here at Rice, but he's like, Well, you know what? If you're ever interested in sticking around rice, I have this crazy idea and I need I need to hire someone to kind of

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see it through. But since I'm going to be the next dean of undergraduates, so at first the conversation was more about brainstorming about what this idea could be, but eventually turned into something more serious for me to consider as a job.

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And sure enough, I accepted the position in 2012 to stay on as a teaching faculty member at Rice, to turn general chemistry on its head and teach it in a more student-active learning approach. So, it used to be taught in Keck 100,

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one of the big lecture halls on campus, and now it's being taught in Brockman 101 in, you know, the small tables of six. And it totally does not look like how general chemistry was taught in years past. It's a lot more student conversations and data-driven

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than a typical gen chem class. There you go. I think a lot of it has to do with, like, timing and coincidence and opportunity. Yeah, I think it's so—such a fitting story that you went from taking this

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pre-ap chemistry class at Rice in high school to, like, here you are now. [LTL: Yeah.] Also, yeah, I read about the changes that you made in the chemistry, like, gen chem curriculum, and I think it's really admirable that

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you implemented those changes that you thought would make the learning experience more holistic in a way versus the traditional way that it used to be taught. Yeah, like, the–the driving force behind or driving philosophy behind how my colleagues and I have been teaching general chemistry for, you know, more than ten years

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now as a team, is that we want to teach science like how science is done right, which is unfortunately not how most science classes are taught in high school and in college. Right? Typically, you are expected to do a chapter reading,

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come to class, passively learn to review the same content that you read in the book, and then are expected to be able to be assessed on that material through a quiz or an exam. And then you kind of rinse and repeat. But, in my opinion, that takes the fun out of science,

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right? I think when you think about the exciting aspects of science, whether you are a political science major or any science major, it's all about collecting that data and then sitting down and puzzling over what is that data telling you about the world,

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about your population, about your data set or your group that you're studying to make a model, right? And then to be able to validate that model and then to challenge it and then refine it, right? And so, that's how we approach general chemistry,

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that we actually give the data that—the very data that is used to prove the atomic molecular theory, the existence of atoms, right, that you would have otherwise just read in a textbook in high school. But we have our students literally walk through the gas volume data

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and the mass data so that they feel empowered that they too can be like John Dalton, who concluded that atoms must exist. And that feels very empowering and very exciting I think. Yeah, definitely. So, along the way, throughout your educational

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journey, what hardships did you face and did you ever even consider changing your major? Oh, yeah. A lot of hardships, I think. And ever considered changing my major?

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Yeah, all the time, I think. And I see it a lot now with the undergraduates, like, every single class of undergraduates that I help advise. There's nothing that you can do to speed it up,

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right? Like, to–to–to avoid all of the things. Because internally, I think each individual has to convince themselves that either they're sticking something out, or they have to change no matter what advice you are given.

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I think—I'm sure you can understand, even though you are in social sciences, that there is always this pressure of pre-med or being pre-med at Rice because it seems like everybody around you is [laughs] pre-med. Yeah, my roommate's pre-med. So, yeah.

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There you go. Right. Like, and so, you kind of feel like, should I also be doing it too? Because it seems like everybody is like everybody else is doing it. I've also considered being a social science major because,

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like, I was like, that sounds cool and I've never heard of it, but I just never felt like I had the time or wasn't motivated enough to learn more about it. Or perhaps I wasn't surrounded by people to educate me on it, but instead, the people who were there to–to–to expose me

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to what they considered to be exciting happened to be chemistry professors and classmates in–in STEM. So, even though I always had second guesses about what I wanted to study, it has a lot to do with the people who you surround yourself with.

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Like, perhaps I could have chosen another major and I would find something else besides chemistry more interesting. It's just, again, about who, what you're exposed to and the timing of it all. Hardships, I think, you know, first and foremost,

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being first-gen in–in the American college system is hard enough, right? Because navigating all of that essentially on your own without familial–familial guidance on,

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like, how do you interact with professors? Or, is it shameful to go to office hours? Or, like, what is a good grade? Or, how do you even conduct yourself in a classroom?

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Because my parents had no idea what a college classroom really looks like here in America. It's just an added level of cognitive load that you just have to deal with if you want to get through college.

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And then of course, in STEM, being a female is another thing. And being, you know, not white is also another hardship. Just not having someone who actually looks like you can be challenging. But again, it's finding the people who

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support you in your efforts and they don't necessarily have to look like you. And I think nowadays we really strive for DEI and making sure that we look like we have people who look like our students because that is a big impact.

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But, you know, just 10, 20 years ago when I was at Rice as a student, those were not things that we prioritized. And so, perhaps, you know, in an effort to succeed on my own, it's just finding allies.

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And they don't necessarily have to look like me because, quite frankly, not many people at Rice look like me. But there are clearly people here who care about what I do. And again, just putting yourself out there and finding out, like,

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who can speak for me in my absence or who can look out for opportunities for me. So, yeah, those are the hardships, I think. And then the last thing with regards to science is, I was also on this wave of

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research where interdisciplinarity was about to start. So I went to grad school in 2007, didn't graduate until 2012. That was a time when people started thinking about clinical translation

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a lot more in a more formalized way, and also figuring out opportunities and mechanisms to cross-talk in different departments, between different departments, to achieve big goals or common goals.

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And despite the fact that we're across from the medical center here at Rice, which we're super fortunate to be at, there weren't a lot of collaborations back then. And beyond the chemistry department or whatever unit that you belonged

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in. And so, my PhD work was one of the very first at Rice that went for it, that really required an interdisciplinary team of not only scientists, but physicians and–and physician techs and

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administrators to be able to see it through collectively and I got a lot of pushback for that, too, in the science world, or at least here at Rice, for, you know, not being how would I describe it, whether I was doing enough chemistry

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as a chemistry student. And so, during my defense, one person had asked me, why do I deserve a chemistry PhD since I might not be doing enough chemistry?

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And so, it's just this cultural change of the fact that like, this is status quo. But in order to get to the goal that you want, you kind of have to think outside the box.

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And, you know, to address big world problems, you kind of have to have a diverse group of people with different perspectives and abilities to achieve it. Yeah, for sure. And I love that you have translated your

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perspective on in-interdisciplinary studies into even your own courses, and that, in turn, influences your students today, which I think is so great. Yeah, that–that's in essence exactly what I model.

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The classes that I teach now based off of, which is just what did I wish I had [laughs], or what did I wish people had taught me, [JW: Yeah.] to better navigate interdisciplinary research. So, I guess, with the students you teach today,

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what do you think are most needed to enhance written or oral communications? And for other Asian Americans who are growing up in a culture who aren't necessarily used to comfortably expressing their ideas, how do you find your courses help them in conveying their ideas orally and in writing?

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Yeah, I–I think the f-top two pieces of advice that I give to students is, like, always be curious, right? Like the—i-in other words, there's never a dumb question,

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like, always come with questions. And–and second is, don't be ashamed to–to ask them or to ask for help, because the chances are—is that you are likely to be surrounded by someone who's either facing common challenges or might have a solution to

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it, or might know someone who–who–who has a solution to it. And so, a lot of the–the framework of the classes that I co-teach with my colleagues here on campus is about just creating a safe, supportive environment for our graduate students who are oftentimes,

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again, like, assigned to a–a lab with one research advisor. They're given a problem or a thesis or a job and they just run with it. And maybe if they're lucky, if they have some good answers, they might make a connection outside of the

00:30:13.180 - 00:30:30.110

lab. But that's usually, like, 4 to 6 years into–to their thesis work, and they never really kind of see through—see it through where it flourishes. So, wouldn't it be amazing if you kind of train our students where they start off with that mentality of: "Yeah,

00:30:30.140 - 00:30:47.720

sure, I have a question, but let's start networking and let's start sharing my problem or–or my–my project and being able to communicate not just in my own lingo as a chemist, but be able to explain it to a political scientist about what's exciting about what I'm doing in the laboratory in hopes that

00:30:47.720 - 00:31:05.870

that person can relate and be able to ask more questions and have conversations with me. And that might blossom into another set of questions that we can go in on together." And that usually gets our students much more motivated if it is something that they create themselves as a student-led team.

00:31:07.580 - 00:31:22.420

So, yeah, so, I–I think again, it's just, like, always be curious, but most importantly, don't be ashamed, like, too ashamed to ask those questions out loud and make those connections with other people. Yeah, for sure. I think that's a good lesson for anyone in life.

00:31:23.530 - 00:31:33.880

So, going back to your time in undergrad, you were in Sid Rich, right? That's right. So, what were your favorite memories from Sid Rich and what unique traditions do you

00:31:33.880 - 00:31:49.120

have? So, [laughs] Sid was—so, Sid definitely exists as the same mentality of "We're just different and we're always standing apart because of our big tall building and we're the tallest

00:31:49.120 - 00:32:04.630

and we're the biggest and the best." And I–I really appreciate how that always remains the same. One of my most—one of the fondest things that I always loved about Sid is that back then it was definitely one of the smaller colleges.

00:32:04.630 - 00:32:18.230

And even though–even though the building defined our identity, it really did help our culture as well.

00:32:19.040 - 00:32:35.750

And no matter who walked into that–that building, you could actually see people walk into the main lobby from the commons and you know everybody. And that's what I love most about Sid now—you know, Sid is now in a bigger building and has a different culture and I totally embrace it.

00:32:36.020 - 00:32:49.490

But, you know, my memories as a student was about that–that small community. Some of the best traditions that I really liked included Vatoring, which they still do, I think. I'm not sure about how COVID really affected things,

00:32:49.490 - 00:33:04.460

but Vatoring was definitely one of them. Balcony Ball was a really cool one back then. I don't know whether you've ever heard of it before, but now that they're tearing down Sid, it might be hard to remember now, but we had seven—sorry—six

00:33:04.460 - 00:33:21.450

balconies, and on a Friday afternoon, you know, usually during Fridays in the Quad, right—like, usually most colleges have little social hours on Friday afternoons—someone would start on the second floor lobby

00:33:21.780 - 00:33:36.060

balcony, take like a little kickball, a little rubber ball. And the object of the game is to be able to relay the ball upwards to seven, right? So that there's always 1 or 2 people on each balcony.

00:33:36.060 - 00:33:48.410

And the object of the game is to toss it up to the next floor until you collectively get it up to the seventh floor. So, yeah, that was always a fun thing to do. That sounds fun. Yeah, it's nice to hear, like,

00:33:48.410 - 00:34:04.980

the insider's perspective on Sid coming from someone on Baker, so. So, I guess from your undergrad c-college placement in Sid, did that influence your decision to go on to become an RA at Sid from 2018 to 2020?

00:34:05.070 - 00:34:22.800

Absolutely. Yeah. So, I–I wasn't even really thinking about being an RA. I had previously been a divisional advisor and associate at Duncan College when I started at–at–at Rice as a teaching professor or teaching faculty member.

00:34:23.430 - 00:34:34.500

But it wasn't until one of my colleagues on campus, Carissa Zimmerman, was interested in applying to be an RA at Wiess, and she was pretty set on, you know, applying to Wiess. I think it was also Baker at the time.

00:34:35.910 - 00:34:49.650

And she's like, "Well, I'm not going to do it unless I have a friend who does it." So, peer pressure still works at the age of like, you know, 35. And so, she asked me if I would consider. I'm like, "Okay, well"—it was–it was Wiess, Baker, and Sid. And I'm like, "Okay, well, if

00:34:49.650 - 00:35:05.540

I'm going to do it, I guess I would do Sid because I–I like Sid." And so, sure enough, we got considered, and eventually we got selected. Oh, that's such a good story. So, now going on to a little bit about your career.

00:35:05.540 - 00:35:14.720

You currently teach a very popular course at Rice, the Chemistry of Cooking. Can you tell us about this course, and how it connects to your personal interests? You mentioned that growing up you liked baking a lot.

00:35:15.080 - 00:35:31.670

Yeah. So, Chemistry of Cooking is a 100-level, you know, general ed course at Rice that teaches students from all walks of life and majors about the perception, transformation and perception—sorry, perception,

00:35:31.670 - 00:35:49.760

transformation, and-and just the consumption of food and the process of cooking as a way to learn about science and chemistry in particular. It all started back in 2014 and it was slightly inspired by the fact that I had previously

00:35:49.760 - 00:36:05.310

co-taught a–a similar course of, like, similar vein known as the Chemistry of Art with my colleague Ken Whitmire. And that course is, again, very similar to the perception, transformation, and preservation of art through the lens of science and

00:36:05.760 - 00:36:21.040

very similar to that course. The cooking course is modeled from it where one day out of the week we would talk about the theory of a given topic in–in–in food and cooking and to learn about the science behind that concept or that dish or that,

00:36:21.040 - 00:36:37.980

you know, genre of food. And then a second day of the week, we would go into the North Servery kitchen and have a quote-unquote "lab activity" that should exemplify or demonstrate those concepts that we covered

00:36:37.980 - 00:36:51.840

earlier that week. Now, those lab activities are not really labs. It's more about, you know, cooking. And most oftentimes the products that the students make are quite edible and enjoyable. Some of those activities are

00:36:51.840 - 00:37:09.350

more-more subjective where they're just, you know, f-following a recipe, and they're–they're using the techniques that we covered in class. But other ones are a little bit more methodical and analytical where students would be tasked to change one little variable

00:37:09.890 - 00:37:25.220

of a base recipe to see how that might alter the outcome of that final product. And then, so, every single group would have a different variable, and then they would all come together and be able to have a conversation about "What is it about, you know, the different variables or aspects

00:37:25.220 - 00:37:40.880

or ingredients that affects that recipe? And then, in essence, can you develop your own perfect recipe, so to say, for your own palate and your own perception and preferences?" And I think a–a lot of—in addition to kind of riding the foodie wave

00:37:41.620 - 00:38:00.240

of–of late—one of the more exciting things about the class is the final presentation, where I base it a lot off of, like, reality food shows and competitions. My student lab groups would get together and plan out a

00:38:00.240 - 00:38:15.150

whole, you know, dish—if not a set of dishes that they not only make the recipe for, but they actually cook it—to a panel of judges. So very Top Chef-like. And they have to serve it to this panel of judges.

00:38:15.150 - 00:38:33.030

And those judges would include not only, you know, the president of Rice and the provost of Rice, but also Rice chefs, and local chefs here in Houston who might be celebrity chefs, and then also current students and faculty members. And while those judges eat your food, the students would have to give

00:38:33.030 - 00:38:52.000

a 10 to 15-minute science presentation on the food that they made in hopes that they can demonstrate their ability to explain science to a broad audience, right? So, in addition to learning some chemistry and learning some–some culinary arts, I think one of the end goals, kind of connecting to some of my other

00:38:52.000 - 00:39:08.500

mantras here at Rice, is to demonstrate that you can communicate across a broad audience to make sure that you can get to the important points and to maybe teach them some science to non-science people in the audience.

00:39:09.660 - 00:39:26.940

Yeah, that sounds so fun. So, is there a recipe that you think you've developed that would be your perfect recipe? [laughs] So I—yes, I mean, I-I've developed a lot of my own recipes, but that's the thing, right? Like, the definition of perfection is

00:39:26.940 - 00:39:46.230

highly dependent on the–the palate of the taster or the eye of the beholder. And so, yeah, so, like, recently, I was asked to be on a food documentary, and the directors of that documentary asked like, "So, can you be on–on the screen and teach us how to make the

00:39:46.230 - 00:40:01.410

perfect chocolate chip cookie?" I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's, like," [laughs] "That's impossible. But what I can teach you is, how do you create your own perfect recipe? If you learn a little bit of science and you learn how to

00:40:01.410 - 00:40:20.100

scientifically dissect a recipe, and in doing so, I can show you my own recipe of the perfect chocolate chip cookie." And so, yeah, so a–a lot of the home-cooked meals and–and family recipes that I have made over the years are self

00:40:20.100 - 00:40:35.250

made, right? Like, just because I start off with a b-base recipe, I don't like something about it and I do a little bit more research and I tweak it the next time I make it. My family gets a little plump by eating too many iterations of cookies or–or, you know, chicken wings or whatever it is that I make.

00:40:36.090 - 00:40:48.450

But that's what leads to the perfect—in my eyes, the perfect recipe. I like that approach a lot more, I think makes it more subjective, especially with a food as controversial as chocolate c-chip cookies.

00:40:48.540 - 00:41:02.070

Absolutely, yeah. Like, I actually c—I was curious about, like, my–my own recipe that they published t-the–the Canadian Broadcast channel, picked it up and they published it. And it's like, perfect, you know, "the best chocolate chip cookie."

00:41:02.220 - 00:41:16.860

And I–I did the cardinal sin of, you know, someone who gets published o-online to like read the reviewers' comments. And yeah, som-someone apparently did a whole blog post about my–my recipe and I was—I read about it.

00:41:16.860 - 00:41:32.730

And in the end, they're like, you know, "It's not—it's not as great as it sounds it-because I–I personally like crispier cookies, and I like less chocolate in mine." I'm like, "That's great because it's not your recipe," but

00:41:32.730 - 00:41:47.610

that's great because I'm still happy, even though it was a, you know, a negative review because it made that person think about what they preferred. And so therefore they could at least use my recipe to perfect their own. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] So, going back to teaching,

00:41:47.610 - 00:42:03.030

just overall, I think, what do you think is the most rewarding aspect of teaching? Oh, the most rewarding is being able to see my students apply that knowledge in an unprovoked way for me, right?

00:42:03.030 - 00:42:21.930

And that's why I oftentimes really adore the chemistry of cooking class because it is the most relatable to–to the general public. And so, some of the fondest successes that I hear from my students is whenever they go home to visit their family when I used to teach it in the

00:42:21.930 - 00:42:31.740

fall semester. So, during Thanksgiving break, they would come back and be like, "Oh my goodness, Dr. Tran, I saved Thanksgiving dinner because, you know, we ran out of baking soda.

00:42:31.740 - 00:42:41.910

And, you know, my mom was freaking out because all the stores were closed. But you taught me, Dr. Tran, that baking powder could be a substitute. And as long as you do A, B, C, D, E." That's amazing,

00:42:41.910 - 00:42:58.510

right? Like, because that demonstrates not only were they able to retain the knowledge, but actually be able to apply it and understand the principles behind it. That makes me really happy. Now, you know, Gen Chem: probably, like, those principles aren't

00:42:58.660 - 00:43:15.100

a-as immediately applicable, but clearly, yes, like, when you think about, like, whether they succeed as a–as a biologist, you know, understanding gas vesicle formation, I don't know. Or even as a political science major

00:43:15.100 - 00:43:35.380

who learns that you need to be able to develop a sound model that is able to be, you know, to refute bad data. And if–if it is challenged, then how do you actually modify your model? Like, whether it is science that I'm teaching or just logic that I'm

00:43:35.380 - 00:43:52.840

teaching and being critical about data, and I see my students do it, I consider that success. Yeah, for sure. So, moving on to your role as the executive director a-of the IBB, can you tell us more about this position and

00:43:52.840 - 00:44:06.970

what you enjoy the most about it? Yeah. So, the Institute of Biosciences and Bioengineering has been around Rice for over 30 years now, and it's one of the very first research institutes on campus.

00:44:06.970 - 00:44:24.460

And what that means is that it is an entity that attracts groups from different walks of life—academic walks of life outside of their departments. And, for a lack of a better term, like play in the sandbox together.

00:44:25.360 - 00:44:40.720

So, even though I said, you know, when I was a graduate student, that was kind of the burgeoning times of–of interdisciplinary research, Rice technically has been doing interdisciplinary research, but they didn't really associate it in the same ways as it–it does now,

00:44:40.750 - 00:44:59.000

because back then the research institutes brought people together from chemistry, from biology, physics, engineering, to have these conversations with one another. But then they often went–went off on their own and–and brought that knowledge back into their own labs and they kept to themselves and whatnot.

00:44:59.000 - 00:45:17.060

And it wasn't as common as nowadays where those conversations would lead to connections and collaborative partnerships, and they would be on grant proposals together or artic-like publications together or patents together. And so that's what really drove me to–to IBB because it's,

00:45:17.060 - 00:45:28.700

in essence, one of the many media on campus that allows for what I love to do to be done on a daily basis where you—where my job is to find ways to bring people together, define common challenges and synergies so that they could push forward on campus and beyond.

00:45:41.570 - 00:45:59.690

So, I actually started off as a program manager here in–in the IBB to create the interdisciplinary curriculum that we were just talking about. And long story short, I just started accumulating more and more

00:45:59.690 - 00:46:15.170

educational programs while here at the IBB. We have a PhD program that we run here that's considered one of the best in the nation, which I'm really proud of. But again, just another example of a hodgepodge of

00:46:15.170 - 00:46:31.760

55 students coming from not only the natural sciences, but also engineering backgrounds to–to find their own little space and trying to figure out how I can support them and their resources as they navigate this pretty new field of systems, synthetic,

00:46:31.760 - 00:46:50.290

and physical biology. And then most recently, because of President DesRoches coming into office and a lot of other, you know, leadership positions opening up, my—the former executive director of the IBB was offered

00:46:51.120 - 00:47:04.440

a–a higher position at Rice. And so, there was a place to be filled. And so, I had accepted the executive director position this past November. Congratulations.

00:47:04.920 - 00:47:18.420

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, again, I think your work bringing interdisciplinary studies into your research and these organizations like the IBB, I think that's so important. And I think the impact that you're making on younger students

00:47:18.420 - 00:47:31.980

is so great in the field. Oh, thank you. Yeah, like, I've been at Rice for longer than I can imagine now, right? Like, it's practically 20 years and I've essentially worn every single hat on campus, whether it is

00:47:31.980 - 00:47:50.490

undergrad, grad student, staff member, and faculty member. And I've lived on campus in many ways, and through every single role that I've had, I loved every culture aspect of it and micro cultures that we have on campus and I also recognize all the areas of

00:47:50.490 - 00:48:05.220

excellence that we have. But I also see lots of inefficiencies where because we started so quote unquote "small" when I was a student—I think the culture back then was that we could take care of ourselves.

00:48:05.230 - 00:48:17.170

It's a manageable amount of people. And, you know, the chemistry department was, you know, our own little unit. We didn't really have to deal with anything else. And we don't really have to standardize process because we could just deal with it on

00:48:17.170 - 00:48:34.630

our own. But nowadays, as you know, as a current student, one of the priorities of Rice is to continue growing and to be more inclusive and to expand not only our population but our resources. And in order to do that successfully, you have to streamline things

00:48:35.170 - 00:48:50.470

and not feel like you have to reinvent the wheel because that stresses people out and that's just unnecessary work. So, I feel like a lot of my job nowadays is to, yeah, point out those areas of potential efficiencies and say like,

00:48:50.470 - 00:49:08.030

"Hey, like, you know, I–I might not be as involved in chemistry anymore, but I remember like chemistry used to do this really, really well. Why don't–why don't you guys talk to each other and start this off?" "Or, you know, something that the undergrads did when I was a s-Sid RA was A-B-C-D-E to help

00:49:08.030 - 00:49:23.000

undergraduates. Why can't Rice do that for graduate students?" Just start those conversations. Plant those seeds in hopes that the community can be better off in the end. Yeah, definitely. I think small steps are the key to making the biggest changes.

00:49:23.010 - 00:49:32.940

[LTL: Yeah.] So, this might be hard to answer, but overall, what do you think has been your favorite part of your involvement in the Rice community? Oh geez. That's really hard.

00:49:33.510 - 00:49:50.030

I think—there's always an opportunity here, right? I think that is—if any–if any message of my time here like I've never left Rice and that's because I never felt bored. I-if you could talk to my husband, my family,

00:49:50.030 - 00:50:05.210

my friends, they know that I'm a busy person—like busybody. I–I have to feel like I'm doing something different. If you track my career, every 4 to 6 years, I always either take on something different or add something new, and that's just who I am.

00:50:05.870 - 00:50:21.230

And maybe that's a product of being a Rice student, like being overachieving and ambitious and never being able to say no to things. But I never found a time at Rice where I felt like, "All right, that's it. Like, I don't have anything else to do here,

00:50:21.230 - 00:50:38.700

or I-I've learned everything that I needed to know." So, even 20 years in, I feel like not only there's something interesting and new for me to do and learn, but also people who can help me get to those goals a-and accomplish those new challenges

00:50:38.700 - 00:50:54.460

that I identify. Yeah, yeah. So—and then I actually had just one more question about your teaching. So, you were awarded the George R. Brown Award for Superior Teaching in both 2019 and 2021.

00:50:54.480 - 00:51:08.610

Can you tell us about this award and what your reaction was to receiving it? Oh, geez. Very elated and–and very proud. Very humbled at the same time. So, Rice has annual teaching

00:51:08.610 - 00:51:26.850

awards. So, every single year for the Brown Teaching Awards, they—the university actually has a university committee that collects votes from recent alumni from Rice. I believe it's two, three and five years post graduation.

00:51:28.680 - 00:51:47.310

And the ballot asks these alumni to nominate and to identify faculty or instructors who they have had in their time at Rice that they felt had the biggest impact on their time at Rice and beyond. And so, that's the university's way of

00:51:47.310 - 00:52:04.770

measuring lasting impact that instructors have on our students beyond the time that they're here on campus. And so, every year, the university and this committee would identify the top ten instructors for that given

00:52:04.800 - 00:52:23.040

year. The first actually is, you know, they get a very unique award in the Brown Teaching Award series, and then the remaining nine are also part of that group too. So, if you're one of the top ten, it's, like—it's an amazing feeling because

00:52:23.040 - 00:52:37.260

that means that you did a wonderful job af—you know, 2 to 5 years ago, maybe even longer if you teach freshman courses like I did for a long time. A-and for me in particular, when I actually did the math,

00:52:37.260 - 00:52:55.500

when I actually won it in 2019, that meant that—that was my first year of eligibility to be considered for the award because I started teaching in 2012. And, you know, students are usually here for four years,

00:52:55.500 - 00:53:10.830

right? And if you add a few more years of that, that starts putting students who are now eligible to see my name on their ballot to be able to vote for me. So that 2019 award, I felt very, very proud of because I got it based on my

00:53:10.830 - 00:53:22.090

first couple of years of teaching. And even more rewarding, when I see that, you know, I–I receive it more than once. So, yeah, you're—it's–it's definitely one of the—I think for teaching

00:53:22.090 - 00:53:37.180

faculty members on campus we call it the Super Bowl of-of teaching, right? Because there aren't actually many teaching awards or ways to recognize university teaching on campus. And but this one is definitely the biggest of them all.

00:53:37.360 - 00:53:47.630

Across–across Rice. Yeah. Congratulations again. [LTL: Thank you.] Yeah, especially with your own students voting for the recipients of the award.

00:53:47.630 - 00:53:58.590

That must feel so rewarding knowing that your hard work and all the values that you instilled into your teaching and into the chemistry curriculum, that all paid off. Yeah, totally. And–and I love my students.

00:53:58.590 - 00:54:10.870

I love connecting with them beyond Rice too, so it's nice to be able to be recognized for that. So, to–to wrap up this interview, I just have a few questions about your identity and some of your perspectives.

00:54:10.900 - 00:54:28.570

[LTL: Okay.] So, first, how would you identify yourself ethnically? Oh, that's actually a really, really tough question. I-I'm definitely one of those people who are like, "I'm–I'm Vietnamese-Chinese American?" And I always have that tone in my voice because—once more,

00:54:28.570 - 00:54:46.450

my-my parents were born in Vietnam, so, by nationality, I'm Vietnamese American, but my parents are culturally Cantonese Chinese. And so, Chinese is the, you know, primary language spoken in my family. And so, I always struggle every day

00:54:46.450 - 00:55:01.210

t-to identify myself as either Vietnamese-Chinese American, Chinese-Vietnamese, American, or either or American. So, yeah, to be comprehensive, I would define myself as Vietnamese-Chinese American. A very long answer.

00:55:01.210 - 00:55:11.650

Sorry about that. No, no worries. Yeah, I was actually wondering because I thought because Tran is a traditionally, I think Vietnamese versus Lu, I think is Chinese. So.

00:55:12.640 - 00:55:29.420

That's right. So–so, Tran is my–my parents' names, but due to Chinese to–to Vietnamese immigration, that used to be Chan or Chen. Right. And then I married my–my now husband, who is Taiwanese

00:55:29.420 - 00:55:47.480

American. And so, that's where I got Lu from. So, what advice would you give to other Asian Americans, especially Asian-American women who are interested in STEM or a career in academia? Oh, wow. So, I

00:55:47.480 - 00:56:00.950

think, you know, to never give up that—again, same–same advice: just, like, to always be curious. Don't let any people stop you from asking questions. And don't be ashamed of asking questions and asking for help,

00:56:00.950 - 00:56:16.160

especially for people who are in—whether it's gender or-or racial minority groups and to find your people. Find that network. It takes time, but I think hard

00:56:16.160 - 00:56:31.070

work speaks louder than words sometimes, and that attracts good people around you. And so, it's all about finding those right people to surround yourself with, to support you, and you'll reach it no matter what you want,

00:56:31.100 - 00:56:42.550

whether it is a–a career in STEM or academia, no matter what. Yeah, I think Houston also, and especially Rice, given how much its diversity has grown over the past decades,

00:56:42.880 - 00:56:59.250

I think that definitely is also a great place today for, as you mentioned previously, like, minority students who need to look up to someone who looks like them, who's been in their shoes. [LTL: Yeah.] I think, yeah, Rice and Houston in general have done a

00:56:59.250 - 00:57:15.650

great job of striving towards that. Yeah, totally. And again, like I-I'm totally all for DEI and, ra-like, you know, racial, gender representation and trying our best to make sure that our—every single pocket of population is

00:57:15.650 - 00:57:32.630

representative of our diverse p-population at large. But sometimes it's just—it's going to take a lot of work and it's going to be really slow to–to–to Push the needle, especially in STEM, even though we put in so many resources and really stress about,

00:57:33.470 - 00:57:44.480

you know, making sure that we're gender equal and we have all–all representation as much as possible as like, you know—wherever we can. We still have a lot of work.

00:57:44.690 - 00:58:01.690

And–and so, as much as I am totally for it, I think, people who are still trying to identify themselves and–and their path need to be patient with that, but maybe even use that as a source of motivation of, "Hey, I could be that person,

00:58:01.780 - 00:58:14.350

right, to represent my people." And that's what I did for myself here at Rice especially. Yeah. Small steps. Yeah, totally. All about small steps and–and persevering.

00:58:16.500 - 00:58:31.220

And then finally, what legacy do you hope to leave behind to your students and your community? Oh, my goodness. [laughs] Oh, that's–that's so hard to–to answer. Ooh, what type of

00:58:31.220 - 00:58:50.080

legacy? ...I think–I think a more connected community is what I would want to

00:58:50.080 - 00:59:08.200

leave. What else? And a greater emphasis on education—teaching, I think. And we talked a lot about the-the connected community.

00:59:08.210 - 00:59:25.330

I think it's necessary for Rice to do this more often to get to where it wants to go, not only for efficiency's sake, but just, like, togetherness and–and identity and well-being and happiness. But the teaching aspect of it, I think,

00:59:25.330 - 00:59:42.730

is–is kind of hitting upon this identity struggle that Rice and many other liberal arts slash research-intensive universities grapple with on a daily basis of which of the two worlds that they hold higher.

00:59:43.480 - 00:59:57.540

Do they focus more on teaching, or do they focus more on research? I believe that you could do both. I-I think a lot of people think it's either one or the other, but I think you can achieve a balance of it.

00:59:57.540 - 01:00:13.450

And I-I hope my legacy is that we–we achieve some–some equality in it. Yeah. And I mean, so far, I think you've done an amazing job. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. So, before we end things, is there anything else you'd like to share

01:00:13.450 - 01:00:26.980

that we didn't cover throughout the course of this interview? Oh, I don't-I don't think so. I mean, thank you so much for–for this interview. And everything that we talked about definitely resonates with me professionally

01:00:26.980 - 01:00:34.750

but also personally. I have, you know, two younger—two–two daughters myself. So, all of these values I hope to pass along to my own kids.