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IR: Today is August 1st, 2023. IR: My name is Indre Rapalaviciute and I'm interviewing on the behalf of the IR: Houston Asian American Archive for Rice University. IR: So, please, state your full name, place, and date of

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IR: birth. KL: Yeah. So, my full name is Lê Quốc Khánh, and KL: in—according to the Vietnamese order, KL: and so my first name actually would be Quoc Khanh,

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KL: and my—I was born in Ho Chi Minh KL: city, which used to be known as Saigon. KL: And my date of birth is September 1st, KL: 1994.

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IR: Very well. What does your first name mean? KL: Oh, so–yeah, so-so-so Lê is my family KL: name and it's actually quite a common KL: family name in-in Vietnam.

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KL: Probably the second-most common. KL: And my-my, I KL: guess my-my actual name probably appropriately is the KL: combined Quốc Khánh.

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KL: And so it means "national KL: celebration" if you translate it literally, but, like, it KL: actually means "Independence Day." That's what we refer KL: to-what we call Independence Day in our language, because I was

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KL: born, like, a day before. KL: But I guess my-my-my parents thought that it was good enough. IR: Beautiful. And an-another question I have, is how IR: many generations lived in your household?

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IR: Was it just you and your parents? KL: Yeah. So, it was just me and my-my-my parents. KL: So, my-my grandparents, both-on both sides, passed away long KL: before I was born.

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KL: Yeah. So, just me, my parents and my KL: two older sisters. IR: And how far away—did you have any other relatives nearby in the IR: city?

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KL: Yeah. So, we have a lot of, like, relatives nearby, KL: mostly from my father side. KL: And from my mother's side, we also have, like, a few, which is, KL: like, in the suburb of the-of

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KL: the-of Saigon. IR: And did you grow up hearing stories about your IR: ancestors or kin growing up? KL: Not–not, like, my oldest ancestor, but—and I would heard

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KL: story about my-my parents and, you know, how they-how KL: they grew up and, you know, like, you know, here KL: and there story about their, like, wartime experience KL: and their, like, you know, like, I guess, like, after

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KL: wartime experience. IR: Would you like to share some? KL: Yeah. KL: So, I guess, I mean, it's just

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KL: bit-bits and pieces of here and there, because I think they–they KL: don't tend to share a lot of those for whatever-whatever KL: reason. I know that, like, my KL: dad was in the military

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KL: and he works as- KL: how-I don't know how to say it in-in English, but it's, like, KL: his-his role was to educate other soldier, the KL: idea of Marxism and-

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KL: and all the communist idea or, like, the—and the—I KL: guess the–what they call it-the-the party-the guideline KL: of the party. So, sort of like, to form a coherent uniform KL: way to, like, from the top to–to–to the soldier.

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KL: And, but he actually also, like, yeah—must be like KL: on–on battlefield somehow because, like, I know he got, like, a-a KL: scar from a gunshot or from a bullet, so that's-that's how KL: I knew. But then he-he actually never spoke about

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KL: that and I remember asking but KL: yeah. So I guess that's a wartime story of my KL: dad. And then after that, he became, like—he worked as KL: a sailor, as a navigator on a

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KL: ship that, like, you know, like, ship things to other countries. KL: And so he actually been around the world a lot. KL: And-and because of that, he knew and KL: still know how to speak a little

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KL: bit of like English and a little bit of Polish KL: and, kind of like, Slavic language because they, KL: kind of, like, neighbor enough and yeah, not-not a KL: full like coherent sentence, but enough to, like, you know, get you things and buy you

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KL: certain things. KL: Yeah, maybe some Japanese as well. KL: I know he—yeah, we used to have a lot of good KL: things, like, I mean, like good appliance, like,

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KL: household appliance in the-in our house in the past, usually from Japan. KL: And so that's, that's how I remember he's been KL: to Japan before. KL: Yeah.

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KL: So, I think that's-that's the story. KL: Some story about my dad and, yeah. IR: Did your mom also know many languages? IR: What did she do for her occupation?

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KL: Yeah. So, I believe that she studied in the school KL: of economics and she used to know French KL: and now she, you know, like I mean, like they both learning a KL: little bit of English because I'm married to—my–my wife is

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KL: American. And, yeah. KL: And so, like, you know, they want to be able to speak to each other a little bit. KL: Right. KL: And my mom, she was an accountant

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KL: for a very long time. KL: And now she-she, like, I guess they both now retire KL: and most of the–yeah, my mom mostly worked as KL: a real estate investor, I guess

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KL: is how to put that, the best way to put it. KL: Yeah, and see–I KL: think if I remember correctly, one-one story that, like, KL: sort of like, interesting to me was that my–according

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KL: to her, like, her, like, grandparents, like—sorry, KL: her dad, like, my grandparents used to own a lot of KL: lands, but, like, when during the KL: wartime, like, people either was-the

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KL: land was taken away and equally distributed under-for, KL: you know, to serve the need of the war or, like, willingly KL: to–to give up their land to-to-to help like grow and KL: stuff for-for the war.

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KL: And, sort of like, transitioned from, like, being sort of, like, KL: a decent upper middle class, I would say, to like KL: growing up more and more poor and-yeah. IR: Can you tell us what are some of your favorite childhood

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IR: memories? KL: Oh, so my favorite childhood memory, I guess, like, KL: I—yeah, there was one time that I went back to–it KL: was long ago–I must be even, like, early elementary

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KL: or pre-elementary school time. KL: So, like, I guess like 5 or 6, something like that. KL: I went back to my parents' hometown—so, KL: so for context, I was—sort of like grew up in the city.

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KL: I was born in—Saigon is, like, a big KL: city, biggest in Vietnam. KL: And, you know, I went back to visit my parents' KL: hometown when I was like 5 or 6 years old.

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KL: So, it was like a very, like, rural area. KL: You see a lot, like, rice fields and, like, corn fields KL: and fish ponds and, yeah, KL: like, it was, yeah, it was, like, completely different,

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KL: but, like, and they also speak, like, with different KL: dialects a little bit, and there's some, like, local, like, KL: phrases that they-they use. KL: And so, you know, it was very fun to-to, like,

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KL: just, like fish. KL: And–and we actually fish out of, like, a neighbor pond which, like, we're not KL: supposed to, and we also–me and my other cousins KL: and-and-and uncles there.

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KL: Like, we mean–when I say uncle it's just because of KL: the-the it's not by age, it's KL: by—just because of, like, people were born with a big gap. KL: So, they were actually about my-my year, or just a little bit older, so,

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KL: like, cousin and uncle. KL: And we went and we actually, like, harvest some corn KL: from, like, just, like, some neighbor fields, some random field that we didn't KL: know we're not supposed to.

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KL: And–and so that's—that was kind of a fun experience. KL: And also learning the, the local dialect and, KL: you know, like the–the way of life in a rural KL: setting. It's, like, quite interesting.

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IR: Sounds fun. How much time did you spend in that rural area? KL: Maybe, like, a month. KL: Maybe a month and a half, like yeah, it was, like, a long time. KL: Like, I feel like, is decent enough that you so,

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KL: like, have to immerse yourself in the experience. KL: Yeah, but, you know, I think I was just a kid and so, like, you know, there KL: was other kids around and so, you know, they-they dragged KL: me out to-to do fun things.

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KL: And so-so I did and, and that was very fun time KL: that I have. Like, there's no worries about anything in life, pretty much. KL: Yeah. IR: Yeah. Well, let me take you back to Saigon for a little bit.

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KL: Right. IR: Do you or–can you recall and share any legends IR: relating to the city of Saigon? KL: Legends.

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KL: I mean, I guess there's, like, KL: older wartime story where, like, you know. KL: We invaded, like, KL: the–I mean, like,

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KL: the army from-from the North invaded the city and they knocked down KL: the gate of the independence palace by-by a tank. KL: Then—and that's how they captured, like, the-the-the KL: city that way and you know.

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KL: But I guess, yeah, I mean, those-those stories, I guess, we learn KL: from-from-from history book. KL: But some-some of my—the story I like more was, like, KL: how some of the street in

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KL: Saigon used to be, like, canal. KL: Yeah, there was actually because, like, it used to be more of, like, KL: a water-based economy. KL: And so, like, a lot of people would actually, like, come in

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KL: by-by boat and–and there's a couple, like, big market that, like, KL: easily accessible by-by-by those canals and so KL: street in Saigon now-nowadays some of them used to be, KL: like, canal that leading to big market so that's-that's

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KL: what I thought was quite interesting. KL: And I believe, yeah, and I believe the name of the–the city was KL: taken after by a type of tree that used to grow the KL: name Saigon. Of course, Ho Chi Minh City was the–the name of

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KL: the party leader back then. KL: Yeah. IR: What kind of tree is Saigon? KL: So I'm not sure how to—I don't

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KL: know how to say it in English. KL: Yeah. IR: How do you say in your language? KL: I can type it.

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KL: Yeah, well, we'll be missing a couple accents because I don't have the keyboard KL: set up. But if you-if you need it, I can, like, send it to KL: you with the full— IR: We can do that later.

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IR: Thank you. Yeah. IR: And so the next question is how would you describe the neighborhood you grew up IR: in? KL: And yeah, so the neighborhood that I grew up in

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KL: was, I guess, yeah. KL: It's just, like, house next to house and there's like a street that, like, KL: goes at the front. KL: And I think it's fairly typical, like, in Saigon

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KL: that there's a lot of, like, small streets. KL: Like, it's not even street, like, it's not given, like a-a street KL: name, right? It's called—it's, kind of like, a unit smaller than KL: street that, sort of like, snake around in a neighborhood and maybe

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KL: connect to–to a different street. KL: Or in my case, it's actually connect to, like, a KL: canal, like another canal, like, not immediately KL: behind my house, but then, like, a couple, maybe, like, one block behind my

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KL: house. So yeah, I-I-I moved KL: from, like—I didn't live at one place in–in–in Saigon, so I'm KL: just, like, describing the house I grew up in. KL: I remember that, like, the neighbor was always, like, friendly.

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KL: There was actually, like, a house to the—so-so KL: my house was kind of long. KL: And then the front, my parents rent out KL: for different store.

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KL: And so we would access it from-from the back side door. KL: So that's kind of the main entrance of the house. KL: And so like the, the house next door also have the same setup. KL: And so, like, our door was almost, like, face to face.

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And I know that, like, throughout the years, it's often get rent out to, like, college students. And so, there's always a group of college student living there and we're both, like,

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male and female, and then I often, like, come over because they, they often like, do like fun things, like, play video games. And so, like, they actually, like, probably, like, my first exposure to video games was, like, playing with them or, like, watching them play or,

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like, yeah. Sometimes it's, like, com-come and hang out and talk-talk to them. And the neighbor behind the back was actually, like, more affluent and, you know, like, but it's still

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very, very friendly. And then, he's older and more friends with my-my dad than-than me. But then, you know, we-we say hi and stuff.

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And yes, if you snake into to-to the street, then there's even like more things in there. There's, like, a place, that sell, kind of, street food. And if you snake all the way back near closer

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to-to-to—so I'm also friends with a couple kids in that neighborhood and there's a video games store that, like, toward the closer to-to the canal.

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Anyway, this was, like, I can say a lot more, but I'll just stop there. IR: That sounds fun too. KL: Yeah. Yeah. IR: You had your whole gang with you growing up.

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KL: Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. KL: Right. Yes-yes. KL: I quite enjoy it. KL: And, you know, it's, like, mostly, I guess as I

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KL: grow up, I actually enjoy, like, biking around the KL: city a lot. KL: And so having, sort of like, interesting layout KL: for our roadmap was actually quite fun to-to live.

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IR: You know, you can see it in my mind's eye. IR: [KL: Yeah.] All the snaky roads that you would get on with the bike sounds fun. KL: It was interesting because I—so–so through email, you know, KL: I just, like, came back to Vietnam recently for 11 days.

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KL: And that was the first time that I'm back after seven years. KL: So somehow this was really KL: special to me. KL: And, yes, it's very interesting

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KL: how-you know, I have some, sort of, like, muscle KL: memory that, like—so-so-so the first day or, like, as soon as I KL: recover from jet lag, the first thing I did was I took my moped KL: out. So, like, there we, like, commute by moped a lot.

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KL: And I just went around the-the city and my parents now live in a KL: completely different area. KL: So, it took me some time to get me to-to get me to an area that I'm KL: familiar with, and so, I just started going.

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KL: And it's interesting that, like, I have some in some KL: sense I would describe as some sort of muscle memory that, like, okay, I KL: know that I've been through this street, but I don't know for what KL: reason, right?

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KL: Like, was it a street that, like, I went back to KL: from school or, like, was it a street that, like, I often KL: took to, like, visit my friend? KL: Or was it the street that I took to-to go to a bookstore?

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KL: It also didn't help that, like, I—like my parents move, like, KL: throughout my life in Saigon, we lived in three different houses. KL: And so, yeah. KL: So-so I have, like, a lot-I move around and then, like, the, the perspective

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KL: of the city change a lot for me. KL: And so it's all mixed and jumbled together. KL: Yeah. IR: So fascinating what-what the urban spaces and the

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IR: streets are—how they rekindle memories. IR: I find that also when I go back to spaces that I lived in different IR: cities, it's very fascinating—memory works. KL: Yeah, Yeah. It's, like, yeah, I saw, like, when, like, it felt like it

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KL: was hypno-like, hypnotic-hypnotized. KL: Yeah, a little bit. KL: But yeah. Anyway, yeah. IR: So let's talk a little bit about your interest in mathematics.

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IR: So your mother was an accountant and is that related, IR: like, what is your first memory that you have of becoming IR: interested in mathematics? KL: Yeah, I think it was maybe, like, some

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KL: random magazine back in, like, elementary school. KL: They have, like, some interesting, like, challenging puzzle KL: and, yeah. KL: And I-I tend to work on them and then, like, found

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KL: that I enjoy them, you know? KL: What nature of the puzzle, I don't remember. KL: Probably just like, basic arithmetic plus with KL: some, like, geometry that's in some shape and-and

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KL: things. Yeah. KL: But then, like, I guess the education there, like, KL: have some is, like, really strongly tracked. KL: And so, you know, as early as,

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KL: like, late elementary school or fifth grade. KL: So I guess like the culture there, like, you-you KL: tend to go to, like, all of our, like, after-after KL: school school, like, often and the

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KL: main subject mostly are, like, English, literature KL: and [clears throat] excuse me, and mathematics. KL: The basic subject of focus in elementary school because you often KL: have, like, entrance exam to-to middle school,

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KL: right? And so if you were successful at those entrance exam, KL: then you got into, like, better, like, middle KL: school. And so that's why it's important to go to these, KL: like, after-hours school.

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KL: So–so I did them and I always enjoy mathematics KL: and feel, like, I mean, I'm not always the best, but I feel, KL: like, I'm always curious and always want to work on it. And actually, in middle school, I got tracked into

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an English focus class. So what the concept of a focus class was more, like, you have extra time, a certain subject, so you would go to school from—I

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don't remember exactly, but maybe, like, from 7 to 5 or, like, something, like that. And you would get, like, maybe, like, seven period of an hour a day and, like, five times a week.

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So that gives you, like, 35 periods in total. And so you have certain periods for, like, history and geography. And then eventually you add more, like, biology and–and chemistry and-and physics.

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But for the English focused class, you have a lot of, like, English period, compared to mathematics or literature. So the focus of middle school is still those three subjects. And so by tracking to an English focus class, I

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got to learn more English, like, more English period t han other student and then I guess, like, but-but I still enjoy mathematics and eventually I just, like, keep going with it, I guess.

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IR: Excellent. And were your parents supportive of your own interests IR: early in life? KL: Yeah. I mean, yeah, my-my parents would be very supportive, KL: like, my-you know, I remember that—so the culture there was a lot,

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KL: like, math competition or, like, math exam and KL: as well as, like, literature exam and English exam as well. KL: But I guess, like, being good at math there also, KL: like, means that, like, you are a smart kid in general, and so

00:26:18.860 - 00:26:37.800

KL: it's, like, kind of highly encouraged KL: there. And so yeah, it KL: was yeah, my parents support me a lot. IR: Excellent. So you mentioned a little bit about your middle school.

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IR: I also wanted to ask how many kids, how many pupils IR: around—or approximately were in your middle school and in your IR: classroom? KL: Yeah. So-so-so, I guess, like the, the setup is a little bit different

00:26:52.420 - 00:27:08.590

KL: from-from-from the American system. KL: So, like, you have like one—when I say one class, I KL: mean that one cohort that, like, sit in the same room KL: and, like different teacher would come to that room and teach us

00:27:08.590 - 00:27:22.000

KL: different things at different periods. KL: And there's multiple class, like that. KL: Yeah, in the same, like, school. KL: And so in my particular class, maybe, like, 35,

00:27:24.160 - 00:27:37.460

KL: 40 and then there are about, like, at KL: least ten of them in a school. KL: Yeah, so roughly the same size. KL: So, like, yeah.

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KL: And ranging different levels as well. KL: Yeah. So-so you-you don't just interact with, like kids of your KL: own age, but then some older kids as well, but mostly kids of your KL: own age because—yeah, it's still 400 kids.

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KL: You-you might run into still a lot, yeah. IR: Okay. So you probably got to build rapport with your peers IR: from the same class. IR: Because you spent all day in the same room with them, right?

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KL: Yeah-yeah, like, I mean, like, there were people that I just met, like, KL: when I came back, like, we haven't met, like, for, like, after, like, 15 KL: years and–and, you know, we'll still talk and KL: we're still very friendly and, you know, just like, talking about old stuff.

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IR: Mmm beautiful. So what were your some of your favorite subjects in middle school? KL: Yeah. So like I would say, math and physics, yeah, was- KL: was, like, my favorite subject simply because, like, yeah, I feel like KL: I got a hang of it pretty well.

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KL: Yeah. IR: And what were some of the teachers or experiences during the IR: early schooling that inspired you? KL: Oh, yeah.

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KL: So-so I have a lot of teacher that, like, very, like, you know, KL: somehow taught me, like, doing mathematics is not just about, like, KL: crunching numbers, but it's more about, like, just training KL: your-your-your character, right?

00:29:24.940 - 00:29:41.710

KL: So, you're teaching you how to be careful, how to be, like, how to KL: double check your work and think through things KL: and sometimes, like, be, like, clever and or, like, try KL: different things if something doesn't–doesn't work.

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KL: But really, the-the thing I, like, about it is, like, teaching me KL: to be, like, careful and think about things more KL: carefully is what I like the most, yeah. IR: Yes and focused, right?

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IR: Paying attention. KL: Yeah. And yeah, and focused. KL: Although I feel, like, that comes naturally with, like, me, liking, KL: the subject as found out, like, oh, you know, it's, like, a good

00:30:15.280 - 00:30:27.610

KL: training for these things. KL: And I guess, like, well, you know, back-back then there's no–not a KL: lot of distraction to-to, you know, hinder your-your-your KL: attention span.

00:30:27.620 - 00:30:43.570

KL: So, it's, like, easier to think about things for KL: the whole day or, like, a long period of time. KL: Yeah. IR: So another question is in which grade was the first history class

00:30:43.570 - 00:31:02.050

IR: offered? KL: Oh, yeah. So, history class I've been up for, like, throughout KL: . So back in elementary school, history was, like, KL: lumped together with geography and, like, in,

00:31:04.270 - 00:31:20.110

KL: like, general science. KL: But then, like, in middle school, that's where KL: the separation happened, where you start separating, like, history, KL: geography. And at first, just, like, some general science

00:31:20.110 - 00:31:37.430

KL: and late middle school, is where the general science split into, like, KL: bi-biology, chemistry and physics. KL: Yeah, but we learned history probably as early as, KL: like, yeah.

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KL: Elementary school. IR: And do you recall from those history classes what IR: stories about your country's past were told? KL: Yeah. So it's a lot of story about, like–like,

00:31:55.630 - 00:32:14.620

KL: where back in the imperial history where KL: we still have, like, kings and-and yeah. KL: A lot of wartime story actually, how, like, the KL: Chinese invaded us and the Mongolian invaded us,

00:32:14.980 - 00:32:25.960

KL: like, three times. KL: The Chinese invaded us and, you know, actually, like, stay here for, KL: like, colonize us for a thousand years. KL: Yeah.

00:32:25.960 - 00:32:46.960

KL: And all the revolution throughout the time during KL: that colonization by the-the Chinese. KL: Yeah. A lot of—quite a lot wartime story but also KL: a little bit about, like, the, like, structure of

00:32:46.960 - 00:33:05.380

KL: the–the society back then and what kind of, like, KL: how—what good people what and what kind of like good KL: people do to-to succeed or like to contribute to KL: society. So there's some story, like, that.

00:33:06.130 - 00:33:18.090

KL: Yeah. IR: And what left the most impression on you from those stories IR: about the past? KL: I guess that like,

00:33:18.090 - 00:33:33.110

KL: the-we-that we've been through a lot of KL: war I suppose. KL: And there's always like conflicts between like, different KL: dynasty and, y

00:33:37.310 - 00:33:53.200

KL: eah, I'm—yeah, KL: I'm not sure to be able to say more than that. KL: Yeah. IR: And do you recall how Vietnam's relationship with the United States was

00:33:53.230 - 00:34:11.490

IR: narrated in the class or textbooks? KL: So I think it was narrated as, certainly, not a KL: good relationship. KL: Yeah. It was described as, like, how, you know,

00:34:11.700 - 00:34:30.780

KL: like, United States was, like, you know, chose a different approach from KL: the French. And instead of, like, directly put their force there, they KL: set up, like, a government there and, KL: like, in some sense, make us, like, fight against each other where they, like, still

00:34:30.780 - 00:34:50.280

KL: supply, yeah, weapons and-and KL: forces and army and troops as well. KL: But we also—I mean, like, I guess, like, this KL: is learned through, like, you know what the leader of the party

00:34:50.370 - 00:35:06.490

KL: is like, how his approach was never to, like, KL: you know, like, go against, like, the–the opponent to try to learn from KL: the enemy. KL: And-and so at least, like, I mean, you know, I'm-I'm

00:35:07.150 - 00:35:25.750

KL: aware that, like, you know there certainly propaganda, KL: like, you know, like, the-the winner—and not necessarily the winner—but, KL: like, the-the country that, like, educate the the KL: the younger generation control the narrative, and—but what I

00:35:25.750 - 00:35:42.280

KL: remember learning about Ho Chi Minh KL: was that, like, the reason that he decided so-so he-he traveled KL: to France and–and other countries to study abroad KL: and try to learn from them.

00:35:42.280 - 00:36:01.540

KL: And-and the reason he wanted to do that KL: is because he don't view them necessarily as, like, KL: he wants to, to learn from them and try to get the–the good things out of KL: it enough for us to be able to rise up and and fight against

00:36:01.660 - 00:36:18.090

KL: the French and the Americans. KL: And an example of that is that in our Declaration of KL: Independence, we—he-he KL: wrote that and then we—and he pulled it both some

00:36:19.950 - 00:36:37.690

KL: sentences in the American and the French Declaration KL: of Independence. KL: I think the sentence was, like, about like, I don't remember exactly from, from which, but KL: it's like all men deserve, like, happiness, liberty

00:36:38.260 - 00:36:51.790

KL: and–and freedom. KL: Like, I'm sure I'm butchering that statement. KL: But, like, it is that statement and from either one that like KL: also embedded in our Declaration of Independence.

00:36:56.170 - 00:37:09.010

IR: Very good. So now let's move from early childhood to IR: immigration to United States. IR: So, you moved to the United States in 2012, and so, what prompted you to IR: do so?

00:37:09.870 - 00:37:27.630

KL: Yeah. So, prompted me because I want to try to KL: study mathematics in academia. KL: And I know that, like, there's no way I can do that in KL: Vietnam. It's a developing country.

00:37:27.630 - 00:37:46.440

KL: And so the academia is some sort of, like, extravaganza, like, you KL: know, like you, you can't focus on something, like, KL: abstract before you take care of your–your–your needs. KL: And–and I think that prompted me to, like, okay, if you want

00:37:46.440 - 00:38:04.680

KL: to study mathematics, you should look at, like, some Western KL: country. And so—and, you know, like, people in KL: my generation also, like, tell each other that as well. KL: Not just mathematics but in other sciences as well.

00:38:05.610 - 00:38:22.870

KL: And so-so I did, you know, like, my sister, my KL: closest-closer sister, like, study in the US. KL: And so, I actually went to her KL: college for-for my

00:38:22.870 - 00:38:42.370

KL: university. And that's yeah, that's the beginning of it. IR: And that was in Ohio? KL: Yes, that was in a small town about KL: 45 minutes north of Columbus, central Ohio, called

00:38:42.760 - 00:38:58.040

KL: Delaware. IR: Mhm. IR: And how did you keep touch—or—in touch with your family back in Vietnam? KL: So it's not–not-not so well, because, like, my—growing

00:39:00.300 - 00:39:20.840

KL: up throughout the high school time I have a lot of conflicts with my parents. KL: And so, yeah, I just don't think I KL: called them much. KL: And mostly, like, they would call me and we would have, like, a

00:39:20.840 - 00:39:39.890

KL: chat. But sometimes I yeah, sometimes I didn't pick up the phone. IR: That's understandable too. IR: What are some challenges that you faced when leaving Vietnam and adjusting IR: to life in a new country?

00:39:42.800 - 00:39:56.750

KL: The language barrier, I guess. KL: Yeah. There's a lot of language and cultural barrier, I guess. KL: Like, I would say the language barrier is easy to overcome, KL: but the cultural barrier is still,

00:39:57.440 - 00:40:15.050

KL: like, very difficult because, like, college kids, when they KL: talk and to each other, you know, share their interests, they start KL: talking about, like, you know, TV that they watch growing KL: up and, you know, I have nothing to relate to.

00:40:16.570 - 00:40:35.980

KL: And, you know, maybe you get lucky and you-you talk to KL: someone that, like, willing to engage with your-your-your KL: culture and engage with what you grew up, like, KL: doing. But it's still hard for them to understand, just as it's hard for me to

00:40:35.980 - 00:40:49.940

KL: understand, like, why certain, like, silly things KL: was funny. You know what I mean? KL: Like, it's like you didn't experience it. KL: And so-so I know, like, some of my friends' approach was

00:40:49.950 - 00:41:04.570

KL: to, oh, you know, try to catch up and learn it. KL: And my approach has always been, like, oh, okay, like if it doesn't KL: suit my taste and I don't quite like it, then you know, KL: so-so be it.

00:41:04.820 - 00:41:16.650

KL: I don't want to try to to-to, like, it and fit in that KL: way—Sorry? IR: I relate to that also. KL: Yeah, yeah.

00:41:16.940 - 00:41:28.270

KL: You know, sometimes it's just, like. KL: Yeah, it's like. You, like, certain changes too much, KL: I guess. KL: And at the core, I still think I'm Vietnamese

00:41:29.530 - 00:41:49.190

KL: and-and not like certainly not Vietnamese American, KL: even though eventually I will have citizen for KL: citizenship and whatnot, like, Vietnamese Americans feel, like, KL: the implicit cultural message

00:41:49.190 - 00:42:03.260

KL: is, like, different. KL: That I mean, like, they I mean, they-they have KL: their culture and there's nothing wrong about that. KL: But it's just like it's not something I would label myself as

00:42:03.710 - 00:42:14.450

KL: that. That is all. IR: Sure. Yeah. IR: That's a lot of sense to me too. IR: Yeah, I've witnessed that in a-in another context in

00:42:14.450 - 00:42:29.570

IR: Lithuanian-American community. IR: So, I understand what you're talking about. IR: Now, have you faced any discrimination or experienced IR: any discrimination upon arriving in the United States?

00:42:31.430 - 00:42:51.710

KL: Yeah. I mean I certainly have heard, like, slur KL: before. I mean, like, up until recently I was actually, like, in KL: Montreal for, like, for a conference KL: and yeah, some drunk college kid in-in Montreal were just,

00:42:51.740 - 00:43:10.620

KL: you know, saying some, some slur, you know, that's about it. KL: Yeah. But other KL: discrimination than that. KL: I'm not that I'm aware of, although, I

00:43:10.620 - 00:43:27.040

KL: mean, I don't know whether the fact that I don't culturally fit KL: in would count. KL: You know, like, maybe it's just like, yeah. KL: It's hard for me to reach out and make friends with people.

00:43:27.040 - 00:43:45.200

KL: But, you know, there's people with plenty of people that, like, engage with me and KL: make friends with me and, yeah. KL: So, it's just, I guess I have less friends and less KL: of an ease to talk to other people that is not

00:43:46.070 - 00:44:00.970

KL: from Vietnam. KL: I don't know why. KL: Yeah. IR: So, you spoke a little bit about Vietnamese community.

00:44:04.350 - 00:44:21.360

IR: Were you able to find or have you even thought of reaching out IR: to Vietnamese community and connect to the Vietnamese IR: community of Houston? KL: Yeah, I haven't thought about it, mostly because, like, they probably

00:44:21.360 - 00:44:39.640

KL: like, well, my first year in Houston, I didn't have a KL: car. Now I do. KL: But, yeah, I'm not so-so-so sure. KL: Yeah. I mean, one–one thing

00:44:39.640 - 00:44:57.460

KL: I'll say in a different direction is I did reach out to the KL: Vietnamese mathematician that I'm KL: working in my area or, like, yeah. KL: So, like, and I do enjoy hanging out with them at the conference,

00:44:57.460 - 00:45:09.610

KL: although there's very few of us. KL: There's very few of us. KL: Like, last conference—the conference last week was the first time KL: ever that I was at the conference with a Vietnamese

00:45:11.440 - 00:45:24.100

KL: mathematician for a week. KL: And we actually went to dinner a couple of times and only up to there's only two KL: of us, right? Me and–me and her. KL: And it was an enjoyable time,

00:45:25.210 - 00:45:38.710

KL: I must say. KL: Yeah, but back to your question. KL: I'm not sure why. KL: I mean, like, yeah, I also like, I'm

00:45:38.710 - 00:45:52.420

KL: not sure, like, what kind of things that we would do, KL: like, together, right? KL: Like, maybe–maybe that's something I should look into. KL: If there's, like, a cultural center

00:45:52.550 - 00:46:08.660

KL: or-or something that I can try to KL: engage it with somehow, but KL: yeah. IR: So another question about the food, Vietnamese food.

00:46:09.790 - 00:46:20.700

KL: Yeah. IR: You—do you dine out and if you dine out, do you seek IR: out Vietnamese food? KL: And if I–if I dine out.

00:46:20.700 - 00:46:32.040

KL: Yeah. Yes, I mean, of course. KL: Yeah. IR: What's your favorite restaurant in Houston? KL: Oh, so-so, unfortunately, I feel—I mean, I haven't have found,

00:46:32.040 - 00:46:50.300

KL: like, any favorite so far, but, like, I heard from KL: multiple people that like, the good ones are in Bellaire KL: and and I've-I've tried a couple in Midtown and so I live KL: in–in Montrose and I only have a bike.

00:46:50.310 - 00:47:05.010

KL: And so, like, within biking distance, like, maybe within 30 minute radius, there's not a KL: lot of, like, good one that I found. KL: But yeah, people said Bellaire, so I'm excited to KL: now have a car.

00:47:05.010 - 00:47:16.650

KL: I'm excited to try it out. IR: I am sure there are great adventures there. KL: Yes, yes. IR: When you find when you find one you like, let us know.

00:47:17.250 - 00:47:31.180

KL: Will-will do for sure. IR: Okay. So next question is, how IR: was–well, have you noticed IR: any changes in your personality or behavior from when you left

00:47:31.210 - 00:47:48.240

IR: Vietnam to now? KL: Oh, that's a good question. KL: Yeah, I would KL: say, like, certainly that, like, I'm more well

00:47:48.910 - 00:48:04.630

KL: informed and, like, I'm exposed KL: to a country with more diversity because it's very homogeneous KL: in-in Vietnam. KL: And so, like, I feel that I'm more informed with regard to,

00:48:04.630 - 00:48:24.000

KL: like, things going on in different country, you know, living KL: in the US, whereas, like, you know, things happen here have KL: more of a global impact, I KL: think, and also exposed to, like,

00:48:24.930 - 00:48:44.170

KL: different, like, expression of gender identity KL: and sexual orientation is also important. KL: I think, like, my attitude to–to that wouldn't KL: change, like, regardless I would still, like, treat

00:48:45.520 - 00:49:02.020

KL: people, like, just as friendly as anyone else, KL: have no discrimination whatsoever. KL: But I feel, like, you know, I wouldn't, like, be aware of KL: such diverse range exists if I were in-in Vietnam

00:49:02.740 - 00:49:20.080

KL: . Although, you know, there's always a, like, a lag KL: in terms of, like, how issue, KL: like, got popularized, like, you know–you know, from the US KL: to Vietnam. Yeah.

00:49:20.080 - 00:49:35.690

KL: So-so certainly the youth in–in Vietnam nowadays I think that's KL: like really well informed. KL: But you know, there's still KL: more to-to be done.

00:49:35.990 - 00:49:53.620

KL: You know, in terms of, like, you know, to, you know, KL: to where we reach a place where like, no discrimination. KL: I mean, same in both in Vietnam and of course, like, even in the US, like, KL: right?

00:49:53.860 - 00:50:12.070

KL: Yeah. So, yeah, KL: personality. No, I think maybe I'm a little bit KL: more talkative and more less shy, but I don't KL: know. Like, I still feel, like,

00:50:12.550 - 00:50:28.120

KL: yeah. Somehow default to not talking much is my, KL: like, trait of personality. KL: Pretty bad, but [laughs] that's-that's the way it is, I guess. KL: Yeah.

00:50:28.300 - 00:50:45.580

IR: Very good. How does—or how was the United States IR: different in your experience from how it was portrayed IR: through mass media in Vietnam? IR: What did you find different that did not meet your expectations?

00:50:47.200 - 00:51:05.930

KL: Yeah, I guess certainly the diversity. KL: There are certain, like, sense of, like, KL: I guess like, leave it, like, you know, like, things KL: that happen in high school on television is not exactly things

00:51:05.930 - 00:51:23.540

KL: happen in high school in the US, although there's some, like, some KL: similarity, but, you know, like, it's more toned down KL: and, you know, realize make me realize, oh, you know, it's not so different from, like, KL: high school in-in Vietnam.

00:51:24.410 - 00:51:40.760

KL: You—everyone have their own group of friends. KL: So, people naturally, like, hang out with their own, like, KL: group. Doesn't mean that, like, people are gonna hate each other or anything as KL: portrayed it. And I guess, like,

00:51:41.300 - 00:51:59.300

KL: maybe I would say not different, but then like when you come to KL: live at a place you see there's more to a place than is KL: portrayed at, like, right, then TV. KL: Because like TV, certainly, like, through film you

00:51:59.300 - 00:52:16.630

KL: see things bit more exaggerated. KL: And if you watch the news, then it would only be like KL: political stuff, which is also nowadays is more KL: exaggerated than-than-than

00:52:16.660 - 00:52:34.750

KL: ever so-so I would say when you—when I come here, I would say, oh, there's actually KL: more to what is on TV. KL: There's people with more nuanced position. KL: Yeah, with their like, strong religious beliefs, but

00:52:34.750 - 00:52:54.970

KL: also more liberal than—yeah-yeah. KL: So-so, like, and of course, I only come here to interact with, KL: like, other people from other country, like, yeah, KL: like Western European people and then, like, people from

00:52:55.450 - 00:53:08.120

KL: South Asia and then East KL: Asia and Middle Eastern. KL: So yeah, and people from Africa as well. KL: So yeah, it's more-more diverse.

00:53:09.550 - 00:53:27.420

IR: Very good. So, now let's go to your education. IR: At what point in early academics did you know that you might go as far as a IR: PhD in mathematics? KL: I mean, I guess I always wanted to like

00:53:27.460 - 00:53:47.770

KL: get a PhD in math, but like, I mean, to be able to know that I-I KL: would get it. It's probably only like when I start doing it [laughs]. KL: Yeah. So, so I would say yeah, maybe like when I start grad school and KL: understand what it entails and maybe eventually I said okay, maybe I

00:53:47.770 - 00:54:06.030

KL: can-I can manage. IR: Very good. So you earned bachelors from Ohio Wesleyan University in IR: 2016 and a PhD from Temple University in Philadelphia. IR: [KL: Right.] How-how has academia helped

00:54:06.030 - 00:54:27.760

IR: you to shape your perspective and relations to people? KL: Yeah, KL: I guess it's, you know, certainly like one–one KL: thing certainly to be said is that, like, people are good at doing

00:54:27.760 - 00:54:45.610

KL: things can come from, like, multiple backgrounds and KL: with multiple situations, KL: right? Like, I've seen people good at doing math KL: regardless of their gender and

00:54:46.330 - 00:55:04.170

KL: orientation. And also there's people that, like, worked KL: in high—like, as a teacher in high KL: school for, like, nine years, come back and get PhD in math and now KL: they, like, doing really well and you know, it's

00:55:05.400 - 00:55:22.620

KL: certain, like, amounts of focus KL: and attention and organizational skills. KL: And also it takes—and it also matters that you have KL: good taste in some sense that, you know, what would be, like,

00:55:23.640 - 00:55:42.170

KL: what would be popular in-in-in the field. KL: And you-you can somehow manage to prove that, okay, KL: the utility of what you study to the people and KL: you know. Yeah, I would say mathematics—doing

00:55:43.280 - 00:56:01.220

KL: mathematics is more a social activity than-than KL: people think. Like, mathematicians go to conferences, like, collaborate with each KL: other, talk to each other, like, about math. KL: But, you know, they still, you know, engage in, like,

00:56:01.850 - 00:56:17.210

KL: social interaction. KL: And, you know, sometimes you don't just collaborate with people that KL: you—that with the same interest or you collaborate with your people KL: that you're close to, that you happen to find, like, oh, something like

00:56:17.210 - 00:56:30.190

KL: this can be done. Yeah. KL: So I'd say it's more of a social activity than KL: people would think. KL: And so therefore it's important to have, like,

00:56:31.390 - 00:56:48.990

KL: diversity in the-in the community with—even though I said that, KL: like, I understood that, like, you know, you can be good KL: regardless of your background and your identities. KL: But the number of people with different backgrounds and

00:56:49.030 - 00:57:08.190

KL: different identities in mathematics is-is not quite as diverse as KL: we would hope. And so working toward that is-is certainly good KL: for the field. IR: Okay. What is the most meaningful academic and non-academic

00:57:08.190 - 00:57:27.400

IR: project or endeavor you pursued in college? KL: In college. So KL: , I guess the most meaningful, like, academic project KL: I pursued in college was, like, one of my summer research

00:57:27.400 - 00:57:46.890

KL: was, like, I learned some new things that, like, KL: seemed at first, like, completely out of reach from-from what I can KL: understand. And then through interaction with my-my advisor and, KL: you know, how he-he explained things to me and

00:57:47.070 - 00:58:07.540

KL: then, you know, through some-some self reading from-from a book that he KL: gave, I gradually understand it more and-and-and KL: more. And so I felt, like, very KL: like fulfilling even though, like, the project, like,

00:58:07.560 - 00:58:22.170

KL: didn't necessarily result in, like, a paper or anything, but like, KL: yeah, the—I quite enjoy the journey. KL: And sorry, what–what about the–the non academic KL: part?

00:58:22.290 - 00:58:40.410

IR: Did you-did you have some IR: experiences that were rewarding that was not academically? KL: Ah gotcha. Not academic. KL: So, I guess.

00:58:40.410 - 00:58:59.580

KL: Yeah, I was involved in, like, I was a president of the Vietnamese KL: Student Association, as a KL: freshman, I would say, or sophomore, which is, like, quite, like, young. KL: And–and it was rewarding in the sense that I learned

00:59:00.120 - 00:59:15.720

KL: that I'm not suited for such a role. KL: [laughs] Yeah. KL: So-so-so somehow it was, it came out of me—so, KL: you know, so the social situation there was, like, quite complicated.

00:59:15.720 - 00:59:32.660

KL: People don't, like, each other and they fight a lot. KL: And then, like, you know, somehow, like, I came in and I sold KL: myself as a young, ambitious person that, like, will KL: resolve all the conflict, you know, turns out to be, like, much deeper than I

00:59:32.660 - 00:59:50.620

KL: thought. They probably just elected me just because KL: they want someone new and can-can get the job done, which, you know, KL: I did, but quite in a quite miserable way. KL: Like, I also through–throughout the process make some

00:59:50.620 - 01:00:07.330

KL: enemies as well. KL: Yeah so I don't know, it's sort of, like, a life KL: experience. I do find now-now I come back and think about it like, KL: you know, yeah, it's interesting to, to learn and to-to go through.

01:00:08.970 - 01:00:21.370

IR: Yeah. Yes. IR: To know yourself better. KL: Yeah. And I don't know, like, some-something about, like, selling KL: yourself as a young, ambitious person.

01:00:21.370 - 01:00:37.310

KL: But, you know, you have to make sure you can deliver and you can withstand KL: the pressure, so. IR: Were there any college professors mentors that left a IR: lasting impact on you?

01:00:47.470 - 01:01:06.820

KL: ... Not—I mean, I wouldn't say KL: "lasting" as in-as in that, like, I have something KL: I always carry with me till–till now. KL: But there's still some parts that leave me, like, strong

01:01:06.850 - 01:01:22.000

KL: impression that they because they have, like, very interesting personality KL: and, or like, yeah, like, you know, there's a physics KL: professor, a astronomy professor that he knows a lot, and very KL: passionate about the subject.

01:01:22.000 - 01:01:42.010

KL: And he's a really good, like, oral, like, speaker KL: and then, like, he works really hard as well. KL: So those, like, characteristics certainly, like, I KL: keep with me. And then there's a math professor, like, always curious

01:01:42.010 - 01:02:02.320

KL: about things and always, like, optimistic, like KL: about-about things which, you know, I find it, KL: like, admirable because, like, it's not, it's not easy KL: to be optimistic in, life, all the

01:02:02.320 - 01:02:19.440

KL: time. I would say there's–there's phases in grad school that, KL: like, suddenly been through depression, you know, KL: like, yeah. IR: Yes, that's true.

01:02:20.340 - 01:02:37.080

IR: Now, would you please share and explain to those who IR: have a little to no inter–interaction with mathematics IR: about what your interests are? IR: And that's the low dimensional topology, hyperbolic geometry and

01:02:37.090 - 01:02:50.910

IR: left order—can you tell me that word? KL: Yeah. So, it's sort of, like, I study three-three KL: dimensional space. KL: So these are spaces that, like, look locally,

01:02:51.990 - 01:03:08.790

KL: like-like the Euclidean space, like the spaces KL: around us. But they-they can be the point. KL: They can be wrapped up in a complicated way that-that KL: can be rather hard to-to-to understand.

01:03:09.000 - 01:03:27.610

KL: So-so-so it turns out, like, KL: this floppy, like, object, if you KL: somehow put some notion of distance, a right notion of distance KL: on it, then it can actually become, like, some

01:03:28.260 - 01:03:45.570

KL: powerful structure that you can use to–to study the floppy object KL: and the right notion of distance that, like, I'm referring KL: to, is this hyperbolic geometry. KL: So–so it turns out a lot of three dimensional space

01:03:45.720 - 01:03:59.920

KL: carry this hyperbolic metric, which is KL: a–a distance that makes the-the space KL: curve in a negative way. KL: And so you can imagine that locally your-your-your

01:04:01.930 - 01:04:18.820

KL: space looked like a-a Pringles. KL: That's the Pringles, like, an object that represents something KL: negatively curved. So it's like curved one—in one direction one way and KL: in another direction the–the other way.

01:04:19.540 - 01:04:35.210

KL: And–and so [clears throat] KL: Excuse me. So-so this turns out to be a powerful way to–to study shape KL: of space. KL: And it turns out it has some interesting interaction with,

01:04:35.210 - 01:04:53.630

KL: like, other properties of how the space sort of, KL: like, looping around itself and close it up. KL: And so it's been, like, an object of interest KL: for, like, the past, like, I guess like

01:04:53.660 - 01:05:06.560

KL: four years or so. KL: So yeah, that's kind of in a nutshell what I'm interested in. IR: Thank you. That's fascinating. KL: Yeah. Thank you.

01:05:06.860 - 01:05:19.580

IR: For a historian. KL: Yeah. IR: Okay. So now about career, comm-community a little bit. IR: Can you talk about your experience and importance of teaching

01:05:19.880 - 01:05:37.500

IR: chess to young children? KL: Oh, yeah, I think I- KL: I mean, yeah, I think just—I think nowadays, especially KL: like, just anything that can-can help kids concentrate

01:05:38.430 - 01:05:57.960

KL: more, I think would be, like, useful because even KL: myself, like, I started my-my attention span at KL: time can be quite short and you know, like, back KL: in college I remember I can, like, play chess for-for

01:05:58.140 - 01:06:14.130

KL: hours but now, like, you know, like, my, like, I KL: cannot sit through a game that long KL: an-any longer. KL: So I think yeah it's help training you, keeping

01:06:15.990 - 01:06:30.730

KL: your attention, keeping your focus, be careful KL: in your making decisions. KL: And you know, it's sort of an interesting tool about, like, the KL: process of decision making.

01:06:31.630 - 01:06:47.100

KL: You may not have all the time to make all the—to consider, like, KL: every single possibility that you can. KL: But, you know, you have to somehow come up with a good decision and you KL: have to, well, and sometimes it's not good.

01:06:47.100 - 01:07:04.860

KL: And you-you-you can either try to learn from your mistake KL: and-and-and you know, go for-for the next game. KL: But yeah I think mostly it's a tool to-to the KL: important areas is the tool to train certain characteristics for-for

01:07:04.860 - 01:07:26.530

KL: kids to-to develop. IR: Can you provide a brief timeline of your professional experiences and IR: tell us how your professional interests have evolved over time? KL: Yeah. So I think I was a grad student,

01:07:26.730 - 01:07:46.050

KL: like, starting 2016 at Temple University. KL: And, like, I originally, I mean, I didn't know what I KL: was interested in studying either algebra KL: or topology was probably the most two popular area in

01:07:46.050 - 01:08:02.970

KL: my-at Temple University. KL: So I sort of, like, dabbled a little bit with both, and KL: eventually, I think after a year or a year and a half KL: throughout taking courses and interacting with professors, I think, like,

01:08:03.390 - 01:08:23.320

KL: I liked working with one professor, KL: which happened to be in topology, and another professor, and then I start KL: doing more reading with-with him and learning more from-from-from KL: him. And he was always, like, generous and kind with his

01:08:23.320 - 01:08:40.860

KL: time on interacting with–with me. KL: And–and so yeah, that-that makes me KL: enjoy the the subject even more. KL: And, yeah, and then I think

01:08:40.860 - 01:08:56.910

KL: I start specializing in—more KL: throughout my fourth and fifth year. KL: And once I start having, like, projects that I can make good KL: progress on. Excuse me [clears throat].

01:08:58.440 - 01:09:17.160

KL: And those naturally give me a springboard to learn more KL: about, like, different, like, conjecture in-in-in KL: the area. And so-so I spent my sixth KL: year both applying for a job and working on some-some

01:09:18.210 - 01:09:30.920

KL: project, like, related to certain things, which was, like, KL: quite-quite difficult. KL: Yeah, but that's so, like, help me learn more about the KL: area.

01:09:33.540 - 01:09:52.880

IR: And so, what motivated you to come to Rice, right upon IR: receiving your PhD without a postdoc transition, IR: which is typically viewed as a preparatory for an academic career? KL: Oh, so-so Rice is my postdoc position.

01:09:52.920 - 01:10:10.140

KL: [IR: Oh, okay.] Yeah. Sorry. Maybe I didn't communicate clearly. IR: That answers the question. KL: Yeah, Rice is my postdoc on transition, and I guess KL: it's the only place, one of the two–two places that

01:10:10.140 - 01:10:25.800

KL: gave me an offer. KL: And, yeah, the mentor that I'm working with at–at KL: Rice, he got-he was interested in KL: the project that I worked on before.

01:10:26.130 - 01:10:43.970

KL: Yeah. So I think that's one of the reasons why I got the job. IR: Excellent. And so you said that math is much more social IR: than people think of it. IR: Do you—is there such–such thing as mathematics community in

01:10:43.970 - 01:10:54.930

IR: Rice? KL: Yeah, yeah. KL: I mean, like, yeah, that's, that's definitely the community at KL: my-at my department is, like, really, really vibrant.

01:10:56.740 - 01:11:13.590

KL: Yeah, we often, like, have like, seminars, a lot KL: of speaker coming in and the speakers always, like, KL: not just interact with, like, the–the faculty and KL: invite them, but are there like students and postdocs.

01:11:15.030 - 01:11:32.610

KL: And, you know, we often also KL: go out for some–some beer, like, at KL: a bar right outside of the department. KL: And people tend to, like, congregate and–and, you know, in

01:11:32.610 - 01:11:51.270

KL: general, like, you know, I also don't just interact with people KL: with the postdoc in my field but also postdoc in other KL: fields as well just, like, as a way to KL: "Hey, how you doing?" And these-these apps are, like,

01:11:52.410 - 01:12:10.320

KL: a week. Yeah, so not all interactions, like, mathematics KL: all the time, although eventually, you know, sometimes KL: mathematics comes—mathematics will come up in one form or KL: another during our conversation, but yeah.

01:12:12.310 - 01:12:26.860

IR: Very good. And so is mathematics a universal language that transcends IR: cultural barriers? IR: And in that case, is there any cultural difference in the way students IR: here solve math problems versus those in Vietnam?

01:12:29.340 - 01:12:46.940

KL: Yeah, I would say mathematics is certainly, like, y KL: ou know, a language. KL: I don't want to say it's like, you know, the one and only. KL: Like, certainly you can think of the same as, like, music, art

01:12:46.940 - 01:13:02.150

KL: and, and other–other field and area is just, like, KL: something like, we all, like, can-can-can speak about KL: regardless of our background. KL: And we're happy to-to-to talk about it to each other.

01:13:02.690 - 01:13:21.380

KL: Now for the part whether, like, students here and students in KL: Vietnam, yeah, I mean it's hard for me to compare KL: because I-I knew what a high school student was like. KL: I didn't know what—I don't know what a high school student is, like, in the US.

01:13:21.380 - 01:13:41.270

KL: And I think comparing high school to university KL: is, like, in some sense an unfair comparison because KL: I think high school students tend to be KL: more motivated because they have, like, exams they have to

01:13:41.300 - 01:13:56.420

KL: do, to study for. KL: And sometimes, like, the group that I was in Vietnam, KL: naturally better I would say better at math than the average KL: American student because, like, we are, like,

01:13:58.250 - 01:14:14.810

KL: we got tracked into study more math KL: in high school back then, which is the same to say if you take a KL: better group of math high school students in the US compared to average KL: Vietnamese students, they would be better.

01:14:16.980 - 01:14:32.910

KL: Yeah. So-so unfortunately, I'm not so sure how to how to KL: answer that question. KL: Although here's a second hand answer. KL: I heard from a friend who study in Europe is so–so

01:14:34.320 - 01:14:49.940

KL: she did her college KL: in–in Vietnam in mathematics, KL: and then got her master and PhD in Europe. KL: And now she's here as a postdoc in the US teaching

01:14:50.390 - 01:15:05.060

KL: mathematics. So she experienced in some sense, like, the math KL: university in Vietnam. KL: And she saw and according to her, like, we–we KL: learn more in-in Vietnam we were taught more.

01:15:06.500 - 01:15:19.310

KL: I guess. Maybe-maybe-maybe. KL: Better put that we will taught more doesn't necessarily mean that you learn KL: more. Only if you pay attention and willing to learn that KL: you—will you learn more.

01:15:19.610 - 01:15:32.600

KL: So, yeah, that's, yeah. IR: Sure. So as a young faculty at Rice, what is the best way IR: to engage your students and especially foreign IR: students?

01:15:33.440 - 01:15:52.190

KL: Oh, foreign students, yeah, I think, y KL: eah. I mean-I guess, I also—I taught KL: a course in Intro to Proof that I thought was KL: quite successful in the sense that, like, I have

01:15:52.460 - 01:16:10.820

KL: some, like, good feedback from-from the student KL: and the way I chose to, like, you know, like engage the KL: course was to just to go at KL: like a slower pace and don't try to teach like

01:16:11.150 - 01:16:30.160

KL: lots of material at a time. KL: And also get the student to write some journal, KL: like, do some–some journaling on Canvas KL: and it's not something that, like, really involve it's only required,

01:16:30.280 - 01:16:47.410

KL: like, two entries per week. KL: And as long as they write something like 3 or 4 sentences, that's also KL: good enough. And–and this, this part is, like, quite a lot work on me. KL: But then sometimes I would look through the journal, read and respond to the

01:16:47.410 - 01:17:02.640

KL: student. If I find that, like, there's something I want, I have to KL: address. Yeah. KL: So I found that, like, you know, student get really KL: engaged with that practice, like, gain a lot benefit

01:17:03.600 - 01:17:22.940

KL: out of it and they really like my course. In terms of foreign students in particular. I guess I haven't try so much from, like—but, you know, targeting that area.

01:17:23.240 - 01:17:42.710

But, like, you know, for students that come to my office hour, I would try to interact with them on a more personal level, like, oh, you know, like, "Oh, what year are you at Rice?" And, like, "How are you doing?" And, you know, and depending

01:17:42.710 - 01:17:53.720

on the student, they may open up to me. They may not, which is fine. And—but there was one instance where a student was actually like Vietnamese American.

01:17:53.720 - 01:18:10.280

So growing up in-in Houston. But don't-don't speak the language but know a couple of words. And you know, she–she gave me a list of like restaurants and that's that's how I know, like, Bellaire has good Vietnamese restaurant.

01:18:11.300 - 01:18:32.130

Yeah. And so it really varies case by case but certainly if you come and interact with me during office hours. I'll make an effort to be more personable. It's hard within, like, a 90-student class to

01:18:32.580 - 01:18:42.280

try to-to do that. At least I don't. I haven't figured out how yet. IR: Yeah, a lot of time. KL: Yeah.

01:18:42.550 - 01:18:57.940

IR: So, a few more questions, one—or a few more sections. IR: One is on the family and personal life, and could you tell us IR: about your family and, well, your spouse– really, how did you meet your IR: spouse, if you'd like to share that?

01:18:58.750 - 01:19:14.080

KL: Yeah, we met in college. KL: Yeah. So, like, you know, like, we met in a physics KL: class, and she needed help with some physics. KL: So, like, we, we met up, like,

01:19:14.800 - 01:19:31.780

KL: after–after class and, like, and, you know, like, we–we chat KL: afterward and, you know-you know-you know, and then KL: we-we-we kind of work quite well together. KL: And so, yeah, eventually, like, we did

01:19:31.780 - 01:19:52.120

KL: more than just, like–like, homework and just, like, start going to see movies KL: and hanging out at other social events in college KL: and yeah, so that's–that's where it happened. IR: Beautiful. And how close are you to your parents and family back in Vietnam today?

01:19:52.840 - 01:20:11.350

KL: Yeah. So, today, I guess it's a little bit, like, KL: you know, closer than-than, let's say, high school. KL: I mean, so, like, reveal a little bit before that. KL: Like, there was some conflict in high school between me and my parents

01:20:11.350 - 01:20:28.080

KL: and, you know, that make it hard for KL: me to talk to them during college and somehow KL: for me, like, the distance I grow further, like, it's hard for KL: me to shrink.

01:20:29.670 - 01:20:48.230

KL: And-and also the culture was, like, quite different as well, KL: like, never–never once, when I was KL: growing up, I heard my parents told me that they loved me. KL: Like, the word-"love" somehow was, like, not really—like

01:20:50.220 - 01:21:04.800

KL: I actually never seen them said they love each other to-to each other. KL: I mean which I know they-they do. KL: I mean sometimes they fight as a normal couple, but I still believe that they KL: do love each other and enjoy each other's company.

01:21:06.530 - 01:21:21.600

KL: Yeah. KL: So-so I think it must be something cultural. KL: But recently they—yeah, my mom KL: said that, like, she, yeah, she-she-she love us, right?

01:21:21.900 - 01:21:39.430

KL: Like we-we was getting on the-the plane to fly KL: back to the US and so I-I kind of noticed there KL: but, yeah. KL: Not growing up saying it is kind of somehow harder for me

01:21:39.430 - 01:21:59.410

KL: to...Yeah, I would say KL: I'm closer to my one sister. KL: Yeah, I mean, we both sort of, like, experiencing KL: the-the immigrant–well, I guess my two sister maybe closer to one

01:21:59.410 - 01:22:19.330

KL: than the other, but, you know, whatever, like, yeah, but, KL: like, we both experiencing the, we all experiencing the, the immigrant KL: life together with different circumstances and KL: complications and so, you know, helps to have

01:22:19.750 - 01:22:42.300

KL: family to–to talk to and support you. IR: Yes, thank you for sharing that. IR: What are your hobbies and interests outside of your career? KL: I like playing soccer.

01:22:44.020 - 01:23:01.030

KL: Yeah. Yeah. KL: I enjoy—or at least I'm trying to get–get back to—I used to KL: enjoyed it, but yeah, now I just—last spring was KL: my first time experience, so spring weather in Houston and I realized can be

01:23:01.030 - 01:23:17.410

KL: quite nice. So, I got a soccer ball to KL: play from time to time. KL: Yeah, but unfortunately, like, the weather is probably, like, a little bit KL: too hot for-for any, like, kind of, like, soccer game right now.

01:23:17.410 - 01:23:30.760

KL: So maybe I'll wait a little bit and, yeah, hopefully KL: I'll-I'll get to see an Astros game or something. KL: I don't know. I don't know if they any good, but- IR: Well, Dynamo.

01:23:31.510 - 01:23:40.240

KL: Oh, the Dynamo. I'm sorry. KL: Yeah. Astro was maybe, like, KL: baseball... but. KL: Okay. Yes, Dynamo.

01:23:40.540 - 01:23:52.160

KL: All right, well, I have to get the name right first. KL: [both laugh] IR: Yeah. Good. IR: So when you think of your past, where do you feel that

01:23:52.160 - 01:24:11.670

IR: life has surprised you most? KL: This is probably a little bit somber, but yeah, like, about, like, all the KL: difficulty that it has and, yeah. KL: So all the challenges.

01:24:11.670 - 01:24:29.790

KL: Yeah. Yeah. IR: ...The challenges? KL: Yeah, KL: it's just, like, some—yeah, stupid decision that I

01:24:29.870 - 01:24:47.990

KL: can be misled to-to-to KL: make, you know, like, people trying KL: to, like–like, trick you. KL: And yeah, and there's, like, certain, like-like, financial

01:24:47.990 - 01:25:01.370

KL: scheme. Yeah. KL: And how it can be difficult to–to–to KL: deal with, like, emotionally. KL: I mean, like, yeah, I mean, I-I-I just have to, like,

01:25:03.720 - 01:25:16.180

KL: compose myself a little bit. KL: Yeah. It's just, like, yeah. KL: I got, like, KL: manipulated–manipulated into, like, buying a timeshare.

01:25:20.090 - 01:25:32.970

KL: Not so even proud of to-to-to say because I feel like I should KL: know-know better. KL: But the situation was, like, really, like, under a lot of pressure, KL: like, environment.

01:25:32.970 - 01:25:48.150

KL: And I also know, like, they are, like, trained in, KL: like, these selling tactics. KL: And so, you know, things-things like that. KL: But yeah. And it make me feel, like, emotionally

01:25:50.040 - 01:26:06.930

KL: bad. Let's put it that way. KL: Yeah. So-so I guess like back to–back to the general question, like, KL: we don't have to delve into this a lot, but, you know, like, I KL: guess I can be surprised by how

01:26:08.160 - 01:26:24.450

KL: certainly things are bad things that life can throw to KL: you unexpectedly, and things that you would say KL: would only happen to people on the news, suddenly, like, oh, it's happening to–to KL: you without you knowing it.

01:26:25.200 - 01:26:42.640

KL: And quite annoying to-to deal with, you know. KL: And I guess I—taking care of life, mental health, KL: and how you think about things, and have a more positive outlook to life is KL: important. And so, yeah.

01:26:42.720 - 01:26:58.630

KL: Try to keep it that way. IR: Thank you for sharing it. And so last–last set of questions, it's on identity. IR: How do you identify yourself ethnically? KL: I think ethnically I'm, like, Asian.

01:26:59.120 - 01:27:14.050

KL: And where I'm from is Vietnam. KL: So–so a Vietnamese. IR: What do you feel most proud of? KL: I guess. Yeah.

01:27:14.530 - 01:27:31.750

KL: I guess I should feel proud of my accomplishments KL: so far, like, you know, I think KL: people told me, like, getting a PhD is is great and you KL: should, like, really feel proud of that.

01:27:31.750 - 01:27:48.240

KL: And, you know, a lot of time I also feel, like, I need to remind KL: myself of that. KL: And I guess KL: I'm proud of, like, managed myself, like, in a

01:27:48.900 - 01:28:05.140

KL: strange country, like, far away from home for KL: some time. Yeah. KL: I mean, certainly there's a lot of support from my KL: parents financially in the initial state.

01:28:05.440 - 01:28:24.910

KL: But yeah, I think I also try KL: not to ask too much of them or from them-from them because, KL: like, yeah, I think they have, like, pretty difficult, lives, KL: s-so far, like, you know, like, growing up three kids.

01:28:25.930 - 01:28:38.590

KL: Yeah. KL: Through wartime and through, like, KL: all different kind of, like, moving and different kind of economy throughout the KL: time. And so.

01:28:40.310 - 01:28:59.540

KL: Yeah, they deserve to be, like, retired parents and just, like, KL: traveling for grandchildren. KL: Right. Two grandchildren or, like, travel at their leisure. IR: When and where do you feel most at home?

01:29:02.550 - 01:29:21.390

KL: When and where-it's actually, yeah. KL: Felt really at home when I visit Vietnam. KL: Yeah, like, last, like, a couple of weeks ago. KL: Although I wouldn't, like, you know, live there for a long

01:29:21.390 - 01:29:39.900

KL: run just because I have my own family here. KL: And my job and career prospect is, like, better KL: here as well, I think. KL: But yeah, just something about, like, different type

01:29:39.900 - 01:29:58.630

KL: of freedom that I feel, like, I gain there. KL: Even though I know there's a constraint on other parts of KL: life. But, yeah. IR: Do you recall any instances when you struggled to embrace your

01:29:58.630 - 01:30:14.700

IR: identity and how did you overcome that? KL: Like, I guess, like—what—could you KL: clarify what you mean by embrace? KL: Yeah.

01:30:14.970 - 01:30:31.290

IR: Hmm, to come in terms to accept yourself, to–to be who you are, IR: to–to feel grateful for who you are. IR: That's all—meant by that. KL: Yeah, I guess sometimes being, like, a foreigner

01:30:32.130 - 01:30:51.290

KL: and then, like, in a country and not trying—like KL: couldn't find a way to culturally fit in KL: can make it difficult, right? KL: Because like, yeah, like-like, I said before,

01:30:52.220 - 01:31:12.080

KL: like, I'm not willing to just, like, you know, KL: watch all the show that, like, people have seen in the past and catch up on all that KL: and want to do it at my own pace. KL: And–and so you know at time at the initial state can make me

01:31:12.080 - 01:31:30.720

KL: feel oh you know, like, why am I not doing this? KL: Why am I not willing to learn about their–their culture and and all that KL: stuff. You know, what I've realized throughout KL: the time is that, like, there are certainly, like, a lot of

01:31:30.720 - 01:31:45.120

KL: people in the US. KL: So first of all, eventually I will find my own group. KL: Like, I just need some-some time. KL: And–and also, like, you know, I

01:31:45.120 - 01:32:03.880

KL: shouldn't expect, like, me to do all the work, like, it–it's KL: okay to, like, expect people to reciprocate, like, you know, KL: if I'm willing to like, learn about your culture, KL: you, how you grow up, you should be willing to interact with me and learn

01:32:04.350 - 01:32:23.160

KL: as well. It's a two way street that way. KL: So-so again, like, with given the time, I feel like I will KL: find the people who, like, me for who I am and KL: interact with me in-in that way.

01:32:24.340 - 01:32:35.110

KL: Yeah, KL: I—maybe I have some–something else, but I forgot. KL: So I guess that's my answer. KL: Yeah.

01:32:35.470 - 01:32:47.640

IR: Yeah, So, last few questions. IR: How is Houston treating you so far? IR: Do you see yourself making a long term home here? IR: And is there any places

01:32:47.640 - 01:33:00.660

IR: like parks, restaurants, institutions that make you feel good about the IR: city? KL: Yeah. So I like Houston a lot. KL: Like, so far the food has been great.

01:33:00.660 - 01:33:18.480

KL: Like, you know, like, I enjoy, like, a lot of Tex-Mex. KL: And H-E-B is actually a fantastic place KL: to shop, as have a lot of things. KL: And actually, like, me and my wife, we just went to Central

01:33:18.480 - 01:33:33.330

KL: Market yesterday and discover that, like, yeah, they have a lot of, KL: like, great tropical fruits. KL: Although, like, quite pricey because, you know, like, they probably have KL: to import them from far away.

01:33:33.630 - 01:33:50.920

KL: So—but probably not too bad for like a treat, like, for KL: ourselves for celebration, you know, once in a while kind of thing. KL: Yeah. KL: So, yeah, there's a lot of things about Houston that

01:33:51.220 - 01:34:09.210

KL: I enjoy in terms of making it a long time home, p KL: erhaps not b KL: ecause—so-so, you know, my wife is KL: quite politically aware and

01:34:10.620 - 01:34:28.920

KL: more liberal than the state of Texas. KL: And so, like, yeah, it would bother her a lot living KL: in-in-in this state, which is, yeah, I KL: mean, I feel that, like, so far I haven't personally

01:34:29.820 - 01:34:43.650

KL: experienced any, like, discrimination or any, like, an KL: incident in Houston. KL: And it's also a very, like, diverse and liberal KL: way—place for the most part.

01:34:44.160 - 01:35:01.260

KL: But I think it's more than a bubble than compared to–to the KL: whole-whole state. Plus my-my job, the nature of my job KL: is that you have to postdoc, you probably get a postdoc at different place, KL: and yeah-yeah.

01:35:01.410 - 01:35:16.730

KL: Even though I would love to work at Rice, it's like quite a, like, KL: prestige, like, institution. KL: So, it's definitely a very competitive place. KL: So, you know, like, the—and-and I guess, like,

01:35:17.030 - 01:35:32.840

KL: most of my family and her family is in the Midwest. KL: And so in the long run, probably somewhere in the Midwest would KL: be ideal, like, Chicago, if, like, we get to pick KL: any place, probably in Chicago.

01:35:34.790 - 01:35:50.360

IR: Very well. How would you describe if you can, Houston IR: Asian American community, Asian American community of IR: Houston, if you have experiences, and compare it to places that you've visited or IR: you've been in before?

01:35:51.030 - 01:36:09.450

KL: Yeah. So I think, I think the community is, like, quite friendly and KL: I mean, my interaction is, like, through taking, like, Lyft and Uber to KL: the airport and, yeah. KL: And the kids at Rice-Rice and also the student at Rice

01:36:09.450 - 01:36:27.900

KL: are quite hardworking there as well, and also KL: very friendly and then very, like, you know, like, KL: willing to [inaudible] their-their-their culture. KL: And I guess from talking to people, I also know, like,

01:36:28.290 - 01:36:45.000

KL: politically, there's also people leaning left and people leaning KL: right as well, which I guess makes sense based KL: on the conversation. But at first it took me by surprise. KL: But yeah, maybe, yeah.

01:36:45.030 - 01:37:01.960

KL: After this conversation, I hope I'll be able to somehow, in one way or KL: another, engage with the community more KL: than currently. IR: Sure. Only if your heart desires, right?

01:37:02.080 - 01:37:17.990

KL: Yes. Yes. IR: So, last few questions. IR: What holidays and traditions did you grow up celebrating? KL: Yeah. So the biggest one would be Lunar New Year, which is, like,

01:37:18.110 - 01:37:37.230

KL: varies based on the lunar calendar, but mostly KL: falls in February or March. KL: Yeah. Or January, within that realm. IR: And did you grow up practicing any religion or rituals?

01:37:37.260 - 01:37:52.650

IR: If so, do you still practice today? KL: No, I didn't grow up, like, practicing, like, any religion. KL: But suddenly, like, the culture is, like, very much, KL: like, a Buddhism, like, culture.

01:37:54.080 - 01:38:13.040

KL: Yeah. So having some, you know, like, thinking along the lines KL: of, "Oh," you know, "That's karma," or, like, things, like, that would be an example, KL: but, like, it's not like I practice or, like, KL: yeah, Buddhism in my life.

01:38:14.810 - 01:38:28.020

IR: So that wraps up our conversation. IR: Thank you so much for your time, giving [KL: Okay.] our IR: Houston Asian American Archive. IR: And if you have anything else you want to share or

01:38:29.430 - 01:38:45.910

IR: ask, you can do that now. KL: Yeah. No, not-not-not that much. KL: Yeah. I mean, I actually quite find it an interesting KL: process. And yeah, there's a lot of questions that I was

01:38:46.090 - 01:38:57.730

KL: even good for me to think about in the future as well. KL: So overall, I quite enjoy it. KL: And yeah, thank you for the experience. IR: I will stop the recording now.