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My name is Joshua furman. I'm the curator of the Houston jewish history archive at Rice University. Today is october 28th 2020. And I'm joined today by Larry watler Larry, how are you doing today? I'm doing fine. Thank you josh great. I'm really glad to have you

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with us today to talk about your family history. Um and your life in Warton and um the Sheriff Israel community. So start out Larry. If you could please tell us about when your family came to texas who came and if you know what brought them here,

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my family came first with my grandfather. Uh My grandfather was uh joseph Schindler I believe and became joe Schwartz when he came to the United States, he did not have a ticket to come. A cousin. It is my understanding and this is the family history. A

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cousin. He lived in a small polish town called chatty's gonna. A cousin of mine visited there in the last three or 4 years and there's some monument of some type to the Schindler family there. It's my understanding. The, the story that I was always told was

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on a market day, someone came to his parents and told them that one of the relatives, one of his cousins was sick and was not gonna be able to board the ship to America and that if he would arrive where they lived, which was a train

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trip On two days later that he could go with them to America under this cousin's name, which I think was Menlo wits. He was happy to do that. and so two days later, at the age of 16, it boarded the train, boarded the ship and some

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days later, I don't know how long it took arrived in Galveston's texas under the name of men love it. Larry, do you know what year that was? I believe it was 19 1896, 1896 or maybe 95 97. He was supposed to be 16 years old. He

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went from of course, landed in Galveston's and I believe went to Schulenburg texas where the men love. It's family was his cousins, he pedaled out of there in the farming communities I imagine mostly on foot selling Needles and thread and whatever there was to sell for

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three or 4 years. He then moved to Wharton as a single man and there he met and I don't actually know my grandmother's jewish name, but always knew her as Fannie F A N. N. Y. He, she had come to be a housekeeper for a cousin

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in warden a I don't even know their name but they met and married and he started must have had some success because he opened a business, a retail store in Wharton and was in the community and had his first child, Beatrice Zeidman In 1907, what was

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the name of joe's store? And where was it located, joe Schwartz uh always knew it on the courthouse square in Wharton texas, he helped develop the first Synagogue in 1913. And also according in when in those days the way you became a citizen is five members

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of the community of warden would testify to your good standing before the district court and the district judge would make you a citizen And I it's my understanding and I saw a copy of the order of the court and that was done in 1905. He started

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his married, he had a child Beatrice in 1907 And another child Marjorie in 1911, marjorie was my mother as he developed in the community and saved his money. He sent money back to Poland For five Sisters to Come to America. The five sisters were dora blamer

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um oh what can I think her name now Hannah um Rosie, that's four, I think I named it's four out of five Esther and they all came to new york Dora and Esther I have seen their manifest from the ship, they arrived together and they were

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too go to their sister Hannah's house, that was the american person that they came to. Mhm. Over the years, Dora married Ben watler Hannah married, is it christ een Hannah married joseph dan Esther married and later divorced and Rosie married Herman Don Infeld. Okay. And then

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marjorie. Now margie was the granddaughter. We're not a granddaughter. A daughter of joe Schwartz, not a sister. Right, okay, that's right, you were doing the sisters genealogy not the so four of the sisters eventually moved to texas dora watler Hannah Crites, stein Esther Goldman and Hannah,

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Hannah and blame a din uh, blame a and Esther moved to Bay City, Hannah Andorra moved to Warton. Uh but they came, they were the last couple to come. They came in 1933, joe had developed a uh retail store and helped bring other relatives to warden

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fannies brother. I think it's lippman, I think I'm named for him. My name is lippy, uh pinnacle stuff had been lifting your trail and lippman. Davis lived in maine, He died and his wife and three Children were assisted by joe Schwartz in coming to warden. That

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was the Davis family. Fanny sister was sent to Rachael. She married Phillip Alpert and that it was an Alford family that lived in war um Heart and Foot, who is a playwright and has written a number of plays, also wrote a couple of books about growing

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up in warden. And in one of his books, he mentioned joe Schwartz who was a prominent jewish merchant who helped bring a number of people to warden. In 1921, warden instead of having a common school district formed an independent school district and joseph Schwartz as a

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jewish member of the community was one of the first invited to be a trustee of the school board, wow! So In 1933, 1932, his daughter marjorie was 21 had done a year in college, had never left ward and I think the to go many places and

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he every year, twice a year went to new york with his to meet with his buyer to get clothes clothing for the store. In 1932, he decided to take his daughter Marjorie to new york To meet her New York Cousins. The Donna Infeld family, who was

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quite large, had five or 6 Children. No, that was the sister that stayed there. Also, the watler family was still in new york at that time. And uh there she met among her cousins, a cousin named paul watler. And there was an instant attraction. And on

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March 15th 1933 paul came to warden and married marjorie. And later in that year, when Ben watler who drove a truck in the depression was injured driving his truck and the family needed some help. He brought Ben and Dora watler and three of their Children, Bell

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Herman and lily to a little town outside of war in a farming community called Hungerford bought them a grocery store and they became grocers out of. They always, one of the Children always told me that they left the streets of new Brooklyn new york to come

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to the dusty streets of Hungerford texas with outdoor plumbing and started a new life in texas, wow. Uh, these are, these are great stories Larry, can you, can you comment a little bit on um you know what, why do you think Warton wasn't attractive? And and

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the region around it. Right, Bay City. And you mentioned also Hungerford, Why, why was it a good place for a jewish immigrant family to make a new life in those days? I was told that closer to the coast Brazoria County and that was now was known

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as Freeport and Angleton and uh pear land. That was a KKK area. And I guess the jewish community wasn't welcome there. And so Warton was the closest county off the uh coast. Matagorda was still on the coast but wasn't as virulent KKK as uh Brazoria County.

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Mhm. And the jewish community started there. Um and I, why more people came. I don't know when they did of 75th anniversary of the founding of the synagogue they located. Uh I wanna say not here. name started with AP. was a family that came in 1850

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to ward first recognized jewish family that came and others came and the community was well accepted. As I said in 1921. Already, 1905, Joe Schwartz was made a citizen. And in 1921, he was enough of a prominent citizen to be asked to serve on the first

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school independent school district in Wharton County. Tell us about, tell us more about the synagogue With the synagogue was formed in 1913 and got a charter in 1921 and built a building. And at that time there was a a Davis family, a smith family, Schwartz family.

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Uh, Gordon family. There were quite a few families in warden at that time when Hurricane Harvey which devastated Houston and also flooded Warton came through. And some a group called Rubicon, which was a group of veterans would come to these devastated communities and asked if anyone

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needed help. They were there helping people rebuild their houses. At that time. I was still practicing law and I got a phone call. Uh, secretary told me someone was on the phone to want to talk to me. The man introduced himself as being the commander of

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the group that was there helping saying he heard there was a jewish community, asked me if I knew of any of the jewish members that needed help. And I told him he was talking to the Jewish community. This was in 19 in 2017, 17. So you

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were the, you were the last June yeah. They told me to turn out the light when I left. Yeah, well, we'll, we'll come back to that. But I want to focus a little bit more on uh, maybe your family life and maybe your childhood tell us

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about what it was like to grow up as a, as a jewish child in Warton, there was a very active jewish community. There was a sunday school. There was jewish education at the synagogue. Um, I did not, I was in the think 7th grade before. I

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had heard any antisemitic Semitic remark about, hey jew boy, what's you going to school here now or something like that. That was the first time I heard anything like that. I participate. I know as a young child, I went to a couple of, we didn't have

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a all kindergartens were private at that time and I went to two private kindergartens, participated in uh programs including christmas programs. Uh, the uh, I remember by ants would come in to the program and uh just the, the jewish community was just recognized. The synagogue was

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about two blocks from the courthouse. Uh, at that time, I remember uh, newspaper ads on the high holidays as to which clothing stores, groceries, hardware stores and other jewish merchants would be closed what days they would be closed, what days they would be opened? The square.

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Pretty much closed down for the high holidays, Russia shutting and Yom Kipper, they were most of the merchants around the square because most of the stores were owned by jewish families. So it was, it was like a ghost town on Russia shawna. Right, you were born,

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what year were your, were your parents married? My parents were married, March 15th, 1933 1933. And then you were born in 1920. Yes, september 20th, 1936 between Russia and Yom Kipper, wow. And then, so tell us about about Russia shana and Yom Kipper in, in warden.

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So how did, how did it work? Because I know that you know Sheriff Israel was located in warden but it served jewish families who lived kind of all over the region. Tell us about that. Uh Bay City, El Campo and Edna, the three communities that jewish

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people came from, the largest group of jews were in Wharton and that's why the synagogue was, there had a full time rabbi. And I don't know exactly when the original rabbi came but by the time I Knew that there was a rabbi and I guess say

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five or 6 years old. Uh it was a rabbi. Yeah, in the community. So is it true people used to come and would they, would they sleep in the synagogue or people who didn't live in Tanti slept within relatives? Okay. There weren't any accommodations in the

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synagogue. No. Okay. Not in the synagogue. Um How did how did folks go about getting kosher food or Matzo on Passover? Well the kosher food was generally Again I remember we already drove into Houston to get the kosher food and it was at that time that

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again when I was nine or 10 years old some of the local grocers started having freezers that was before they were home freezers and we would people would buy their meat in Houston, bring it back and put it in a story in a rented freezer unit

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in one of these grocery stores. Hm interesting wow. Do you do you have any memories of of jewish holiday celebrated in Wharton as a child and what it was like? Any any stories. Oh yes sir or the high holidays? Oh yes. Poor. Um We had poor

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um plays, we had an active sunday school. Uh I remember I'm sure I have had some roles in the poor and plays of, I don't know if I was Haman or paris or Mordecai but probably played all three roles over a period of time with other

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Children. There were uh jewish Children and almost well let's see I was the remember that someone my age, most of the jewish Children growing up were older than I when I got when I got into first grade, I think a family moved a Colton family moved

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into warden and had a daughter who was my age, that was the first one that there were two of us in that class. There were many students that my mother and her sisters, her sister and the Alpert family had raised Children and they all gone through

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the school system? Uh uh They were, I knew they were there, but there were just a few of us in each class. Mhm. And then what about what about friends and playmates, would you say that you you mostly had jewish friends growing up or gentile friends

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also know I knew all the jewish, but there were very few, I was a member of the sunday methodist youth fellowship. N y f I would attend meetings and uh, dessert and drinks and at the methodist church. So, no, I had no jewish. Well I had

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jewish friends, but they were older or younger. Right? So by necessity you played with kids, you said, and you said earlier, larry that it was, it was much later in your childhood before you heard any kind of anti Semitic remark. Was that, was that a singular

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incident? Or did you become more aware of at any point? I was also told That uh, in the Middle 40s there were bond drives and that at one of the Bond drives, some member of the community has said that the jewish the jewish community ought to

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really buy the bonds because we're fighting this war to save the jews of europe. Some comment like that 1945 Warden had developed a country club and so I was nine years old, but I knew it was developed and I knew that my father told me that

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a friend of his had come to him and said paul there's a country club performing, but they've decided they don't want any of the jews to belong because they think there are enough of them that if they all belong, they would run the club and they

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don't want that to happen. So the Jews were not invited to join the country club that formed in 45, but later on It was in 1960 for that. I was asked if I would join the country club because they were enlarging it and looking for new

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members and younger members. And I called the, the look Houston uh anti defamation league and said, what do you think? And they said, well, do you want to join the club if they've invited you to join the club? So we did. And some of the older

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members of Warden who were intentionally not invited into the club when it was formed, never joined the club. A couple of them did later on in life, but some of them just refused to participate. Mhm. Yeah, I've heard stories about the Country Club and we have

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some documents about it in the archive at rice, I forgot to ask you about about um your parents and and and how they made a living. Well, um when, when my father and mother married, my grandfather, joe Schwartz is still alive and he set them up

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in a retail store in Louie's texas, which was about the 16 or 17 miles from warden past El Campo toward victoria. And they were the first jewish couple to ever go to this community and became, my mother was quite gregarious and made friends easily. Father too,

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I suppose. And they were respected in the community and people told them how unusual it was to meet jewish people. They had never met any before. I didn't know what they were like, but my mother had friends from Louise, Uh come to her in warden when

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she opened her store there and uh very good friends and would always tell me what it was like. Meeting these new people who they had heard many stories about but never turned out to be the horrible people that they heard jews were and became part of

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the community. How many years? How many years were your, were your parents in louise? Were you born there? No, no, they got there in 33 by 36 they had moved to el Campo and opened a bigger store at that time joe Schwartz had become a partner

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with a cousin of his on our part saw lower part in his business, joe Schwartz and when joe Schwartz died, Sol Alpert sold his interest in joe Schwartz, to my father paul watler who had a store in El Campo and he became a partner with Beatrice

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Zeidman, husband Maurice Sidemen. And uh they had one child, fred Zeidman was very prominent in the jewish community, not only in Houston but in the United States. He was president of Israeli bonds in the United States and has been very active in selling bonds uh dealing

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with people in all over the United States and particularly in Israel many trips. Yeah, sure. Um and then what about what about Rabbi Rosenberg at Sheriff Israel? What are your memories of Rabbi Israel Rosenberg. Rabbi Rosenberg came in about 1956 before him. We had, let's see

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the rabbis I remember were gee I can't fix this young rabbi's name who came to warden and he and his father tried to was going to have a yeshiva in Warton. Um mm uh the records are my cousin Meyer Den as all these records of who

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everybody was and he'll tell you which rabbi that was Meyer knows, I'm sure Meyer is gonna watch this interview someday. Oh, I hope so. I hope so. I Meyer Meyer Meyer very graciously donated a lot of those records to the archive at Rice for for safekeeping.

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But Myers Myers the walking encyclopedia. That's okay. Just just tell us about Rabbi Rosenberg. Rabbi Rosenberg was came to new york. I believe we had a Rabbi For my bar Mitzvah. Well let me back up just a little bit in 1950, my father died. My mother

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became a widow with Children. She never was a single mother with Children in those days. She was a widow with Children. And yeah josh, I'm so sorry. But uh we had a young rabbi who had come from new york And he was here for two or

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3 years. And then Rabbi Rosenberg came Rabbi Rosenberg came to America in the thirties, late thirties, probably from Romania I think. And he was very much a Children's rabbi and interested in the young people he came about the time that we I'm trying to think if

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we had had I know he wasn't here for my bar mitzvah in 49. He wasn't here when my father died. He came a couple of years after my father died and I think by then we had rebuilt the synagogue. I think the synagogue was rebuilt in

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54 Or 55, 1954. It might be 56 but it's somewhere in the Middle 50s. Yeah that's I think that's I think I had already gone to college in 50 for before the synagogue was completed and he came then And served until I believe 72 or 73.

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He became ill at the end of his life and spent ended up with his Children in new york and boston for the last few months of his life but was very very well educated and we had a multi reform conservative and orthodox congregation and he was

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able to serve satisfy everyone. And uh huh when he left we had some part time couple of full time rabbis on a short basis and then um we couldn't continue anywhere. But he was a wonderful man. He was loved by the entire community. He had a

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license plate within texas, you could get a license plate and put your own letters on me and his was Lenny's. And everybody wondered what is Lenny's, love your neighbor as yourself, what how did he, how did he spell that? L y A why? Yes, I think

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love your neighbor as your self. Alright well, well, well that's interesting. That's a that's a conversation starter of a of a license plate. I heard I heard a funny anecdote from Libby holland, Libby holland now, Libby marvin's that there was a conflict on friday's, you know,

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high school football season between sabbath services and the football game. Does that ring a bell for you? Oh yes. And the rabbi started services early. He said I would rather you be sitting in chill thinking about going to the game that at the game thinking about

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not going to show. So instead of knowing he couldn't move the kickoff time, he moved the service time. As a matter of fact, um they had graduation at 8:00 on a Friday And at 7:00 on a Friday. That's when we had services. So they agreed to

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move the service the graduation to 8:00 PMclock if we would go ahead and have a short service on that friday that Michael graduated wow, right, sure, that's a great, great. Um, so I mean tell us about the, you know, life in Warton. Um, you know, obviously

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you, you experienced, I moved back in October of 1960. Where had you been before? I've been in college in law school. So I left law school and came to practice with a Jewish lawyer who had moved to warden Ed Littman who was a had come to

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Houston in the late 30's originally from in Germany gotten his license in Germany And had come to walking in 1952 and practiced not as a partner, but use some space in another law office and eventually opened his own practice And in 1960 invited me to come

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practice with him. It was the only opportunity I had other than go walk the streets of other towns and try to find a job. So I accepted. Is that is that because of of difficulties of jewish law students to find work at firms? Or was there

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something else going on? When I was a third year law student, I was asked after a real estate class. I'm sure you probably know this, but they used what they call the Socratic method, the professor would call upon you to recite a case or about a

00:36:22.530 - 00:36:40.160

case that you have been assigned and you would stand up and talk to him, he would change the facts and ask how that would change your decision and so forth. Well apparently I had done a nice job in real estate and if in the class one

00:36:40.160 - 00:37:04.890

day the real estate professor asked me to stay after class. He told me that Shell Oil in Bartlesville Oklahoma was coming to interview and he did some work for them sometimes and they needed legal work in texas and that he would recommend me to them. If

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I would go interview. Well in addition to study hall, I spent some time in the card room, went back into the card room to tell people that Professor Woodard had suggested that if I go interview Shell, that he would as Scheller phillips, I don't remember now.

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Uh I think it was phillips instead of shell. And he would give me a recommendation and someone said, well that's a waste of time. They're not hiring anybody that's jewish. So the next day of class, when I had class, I stayed after and told him what

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I had heard. His expression was well I didn't realize that water was jewish, meaning I wasn't Goldstein of Goldsmith or Greenberg. And I said well that's what I heard and he said, I don't think that's the truth. So you go to class every other day, it

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wasn't consecutive. There were three day monday Wednesday and friday, you were in real estate. And so the next week after class he asked me to step up and I came back mr water, I checked on it and you're absolutely right, they will not hire you. Uh

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being that you're jewish. Uh nothing I can do about it, but I would be happy to give you a recommendation to anybody you talk to. And I thanked him and So that was what it was in 1960, that was broken about two years later. And uh

00:38:43.880 - 00:39:11.810

the the story is that actually there was an article in the Austin newspaper about it. The Dean was a man named page Keaton it was a internationally and nationally known tort professor and apparently he did not know about this, that the jews weren't being invited. He

00:39:11.820 - 00:39:33.510

the story is that he had talked to one of the top students who he knew was jewish. There's a, a group of students that had a special uh standing in the class. He asked the student if he was interviewing one of the Houston firms and the

00:39:33.510 - 00:39:54.040

students said, well judge, they're not hiring any of the jewish students at that time. Dallas was hiring jewish students but not Houston and he said he just didn't believe it. So the story that I've read and asked the professor who was in charge of interviews to

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find out if that was true. Professor came back and told him that yes it was true that the Houston firms which were five large firms were not hiring any jewish boys. He then got on the phone and called one of the firms. I said I understand

00:40:13.180 - 00:40:29.810

you're not interviewing any of the jewish boys. I want you to know I'm canceling your right to come here and interview. And he called the other 5 4 firms and used to cancel all their interview rights to come to the University of Texas. It then called

00:40:29.810 - 00:40:49.460

back to this one firm and said I'm sending someone over to interview. If you take him, you'll then be invited back next year to interview students in the university of texas. But the understanding that that you're not, you're gonna hire my jewish students if they qualify

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for you. And that broke that in Houston. And the first first jewish student that went wasn't assessment, but he came very shortly after that Grossman. And then and now jewish students are. Many of the jewish graduates are in Houston. They always were in Dallas, but and

00:41:21.150 - 00:41:43.620

in san Antone but not in Houston. Yeah, it's a really important story, Stephen susman and like you said, Mark Zuckerberg and Kenny, Freedman too. And this was a few years before them. I think it was last name was Wolf, I think Harold Wolf. Uh I think

00:41:43.620 - 00:42:05.680

was his name. He was the one that the dean sent to Fulbright and they write, but you came back to the warden to warn the practice. I had a number of my classmates, high school classmates had businesses and careers in Warton and we were taken into

00:42:05.680 - 00:42:28.020

the community. We joined the local bridge club, couples club. And were you, were you married by that time? Oh yes I married in 58. The year I went to the, I went to Tulane University undergraduate at that time. If you, At the end of 90 hours

00:42:28.020 - 00:42:48.510

you could apply to law school, which I did. And so I did my first year of law school at Tulane, you could then transfer to another law school which I did the University of texas married in august of 58 moved into austin in august of 59

00:42:48.520 - 00:43:05.900

58. Uh So you you you met your your wife at U. T. I met my wife at no at New Orleans. Oh you met her in events to come to warden when we moved to Austin. She thought she had moved to a small town and then

00:43:05.910 - 00:43:28.230

then I took her so I gradually took her to a small town. Yeah. Little by little. Yeah. She uh she was a wonderful lady and made her life and made our life in in warden. Uh Mixed with the we were the the jewish couple in because

00:43:28.240 - 00:43:49.720

many of the most of the Children younger than I that grew up in war and went to college left and the ones older than older than I none of them came back to warden to live. Why do you suppose that was well in my Children's era

00:43:49.730 - 00:44:11.570

it was because there wasn't a jewish community, but I don't know why they didn't come back. Uh Some of them were teachers and they went other places and talk. Some of them are doctors are in the medical field and they felt warden and wasn't big enough

00:44:11.580 - 00:44:27.910

medical center for them to I know a cousin of mine when I asked you, would you come back to warn the practice and he said, well there's gonna be equipment that I need that the hospital here doesn't have and I would rather try to go someplace

00:44:27.920 - 00:44:53.180

where they were better equipped. Eventually warden had a very fine medical center. But uh the jewish people just didn't come back. Yeah. Tell us about about the the last years of the synagogue and and the the process of deciding to to close it down. Well the

00:44:54.820 - 00:45:18.710

I'm trying to think, I think we finally sold this uh closed the synagogue in the year 2000 by uh in the years after Rabbi Rosenberg who I think was ill and died in 72 or 73, we were able to pick up some rabbis who would come

00:45:18.710 - 00:45:43.060

on the weekend, come on friday and have friday and saturday services. We started with them coming uh that way then they only came on saturday and I conducted a friday night service. They would come back for some, we always had the high holiday services and would

00:45:43.060 - 00:46:08.490

hire a rabbi to come and perform services for the high holidays. As many of the small towns in warden in texas did remember Schulenberg had high holiday services for years when they didn't have a regular rabbi and we still had a regular rabbi. Um and we

00:46:08.490 - 00:46:26.800

had a couple of rabbis who would say come on the weekends and then it they stopped coming on the weekends and just came on saturday morning. And finally uh huh the community was dying and we just couldn't raise enough money. We had a lot of money.

00:46:27.740 - 00:46:52.920

We had almost half a million dollars that our treasurer had done a good job of keeping for us at a cemetery but realized uh we initially did not count women as a minion. But finally We were counting the women so we would have 10 people on

00:46:52.920 - 00:47:13.820

a Friday night. And then it just, there wasn't even 10 people to to come to services. So that's what we kind of shut down. And then we're looking to see what we could do with the cemetery because we didn't want to keep it up, tried to

00:47:13.820 - 00:47:36.920

negotiate with the local funeral home. We had a sizable sum of money and had a large building. Uh we were very fortunate and able to sell the building, the synagogue to head start. They needed it as an auditorium And with the other money we had we

00:47:36.920 - 00:48:03.220

had almost $500,000. And fortunately beth you sure in, in Houston agreed to take over the cemetery and be responsible for the cemetery. And those of us who live there Still have plots there and I'm sure my wife was buried there in July 2017. There's been one

00:48:03.220 - 00:48:27.600

or two funerals after that and I will be buried there whenever I die. Keeping the cemetery going was very important to the people. Yeah. And there was it was very sad. I know the synagogue closed in in the early 2000s and then there was there was

00:48:27.610 - 00:48:51.050

active arson sometime after that. Yes, it was after it was sold though. We had already sold it to somebody and they never actually proved that there was arson except that they thought that someone was messing around and was doing some skateboarding in the area and been

00:48:51.050 - 00:49:14.540

chased off a few times. I don't know if they intentionally started the fire or that just a fire started uh, with them playing around and got out of control. But building before anybody knew about it, there was nothing to save. Yeah, I've I've been with all

00:49:14.540 - 00:49:34.650

of the artifacts, the Torahs and the other things have been taken out of the cemetery synagogue when we sold it. So, those things were recovered. Right, thankfully. Yeah. Um, I've actually been to the, to the site, Meyer Den took me, I think it was in 2018

00:49:34.660 - 00:49:50.030

went and you could at least then you could stand on the concrete slab that the, that the synagogue stood on. And he showed me, you know, here was the library and here was the sanctuary and here was, I mean, it was it was it was very

00:49:50.030 - 00:50:17.280

moving to, you know, to to be there. But, but very bittersweet. Sorry, David. Yeah, it was. That's right. It's still there. There's an aerial picture of the community of warden and you can see that it is a star of David. That's neat. That's really neat. And

00:50:17.280 - 00:50:33.830

then you you relocated to Houston, I guess a couple of years ago. So you were the last, you were you were the last use to to leave ward. And what was that like? Was it was it a hard decision? No, no, it was I established I

00:50:33.830 - 00:50:56.290

came to a law practice And in 1968 ed Litman had open heart surgery that didn't turn out very well. And he died in 1970. And I was practicing by myself and I practiced by myself for a while. Had a few partners. Uh they left. I got

00:50:56.290 - 00:51:17.890

other partners. Finally, in 191995, a young man came in. I had heard that the only way to make, the only way to profit when you retire from a law practice was to hire a young man 10 years before you're ready to retire and he would agree

00:51:17.890 - 00:51:37.490

to pay you something when you retired. The reason for that was in those days, lawyers had large libraries, but the publishing company would for $50 a month, fill the books up. And you had old equipment and old furniture and nobody wants and you didn't own the

00:51:37.490 - 00:51:53.060

practice. You didn't own the files. The clients of the files. So there was nothing to sell to anybody. But if you got a young man to start with you and he thought that well if he dies, if I retire, then the people will still come to

00:51:53.060 - 00:52:15.270

the law office. And so I hired a young man from Warton whose father was a doctor. And he and I hit it off well. And then a couple of his friends wanted to come back to warden and they came back to warden. And so we uh

00:52:15.280 - 00:52:36.200

firm grew a little bit, we had the good fortune of having a gentleman come who had some business background and not only was a lawyer but knew how to run a business and he knew how to market. And this last year Yeah, they always send me

00:52:36.200 - 00:52:59.270

a birthday card. Everybody's in the office signs a birthday card. 17 people signed the birthday card this year, six of whom I've never met. And now they have, they've got an office in warden, one in Bay City, one in Richmond, one in Fulcher and uh one

00:52:59.270 - 00:53:23.700

in El Campo. So young man I brought it and they still leave my name on the door. So uh I'm very proud of what I've left behind in warden. What do you think is special about the experience of growing up in a in a small town,

00:53:23.700 - 00:53:52.910

especially growing up jewish in a small town. How does it, how does it shape your life, your character, your values? Well, because we had, because we had the synagogue and a jewish religious life and a and a rabbi Rosenberg. It was different than just being jewish,

00:53:52.910 - 00:54:36.320

you know, small community. Um it became very important to me um I uh was recognized uh the it was we spoke to members of the, of the christian community pastors. It was almost universal that if at a community event a prayer was said, it was ended

00:54:36.320 - 00:54:57.670

in the name of our Lord rather than in the name of jesus christ wow, I had one experience with a baptist minister who was called upon frequently at the Lions Club to give the invocation. I asked if I, after a meeting, he had always in the

00:54:57.670 - 00:55:16.650

name of our Lord, jesus christ. Well, I couldn't say amen to that. So I went by his office and explained it to him and he said, well, you won't have to worry about it. After today, I didn't like his solution. His solution was, he would never

00:55:16.650 - 00:55:34.440

again offer the invocation at the Lions club because that was the only way he knew that in the prayer, but rather than end it that way, he just wouldn't offer the prayers. This wouldn't offer the prayers anymore, you know, and you're talking about community relations in

00:55:34.440 - 00:55:53.150

Wharton and we're getting close to the end and at a time I forgot to ask you about the barbecue. Oh, singular event in the history of the warden Bay City jewish community and congregation, Sheriff Israel, tell us about the barbecue. That was the annual fundraiser for,

00:55:53.150 - 00:56:15.600

we said banana breath, but it was really the synagogue and uh, people from all the communities, it was barbecue chicken, not just barbecue. And uh, we always was a argument about how many kosher chickens we would get and you wanted to be sure that if you

00:56:15.600 - 00:56:34.890

gave a kosher chicken because we lost money on the kosher chickens, if you gave a kosher chicken, half a chicken to somebody want to be sure they kept kosher, not just they wanted wanted for that barbecue. I don't know. That's all I ever ate. So I

00:56:34.890 - 00:56:58.890

never knew what the others taste like. Someone. A local barbecue would almost get all the chickens partially cooked. And we had a big barbecue pit and we fit the men finished them. They started at, at one time, they started the night before barbecuing and what had

00:56:58.890 - 00:57:18.200

beef and everything. But we finally ended up with just chickens and sold tickets to Al Campo Bay City and Warton and people, families who moved away would always come back and celebrate and that was something special about the holidays. The Children always came back that moved

00:57:18.200 - 00:57:46.040

away. The synagogue was full on Russia shawna, Yom Kipper, uh huh, cousins. A lot of cousins would greet and come back those that it moved away would certainly celebrate one of the days of Russia shawna and maybe in every other year, young Kipper in Wharton with

00:57:46.040 - 00:58:06.860

their parents, grandparents. So it was a very special time of the year for us. Yeah, those are great memories. Um so now it's, you know, it's October of 2020. And we're having this conversation on zoom instead of in person. I wanted to to ask you Larry

00:58:06.860 - 00:58:25.660

just sort of how, how you're faring during the, during the pandemic and and and just how life has been different for you these past couple of months. Well uh I came to Houston because I told you about the how the firm had grown. I was no

00:58:25.660 - 00:58:49.970

longer able to generate the kind of income that a partner that would share in what the other people brought. So I didn't feel it fair. And I had already stopped getting a share of the partnership but we had worked an agreement where they provided the expenses

00:58:49.970 - 00:59:08.850

that I practiced and I shared what little I earned with the firm and was able to live off that. And as they pay me now, like I told you this arrangement where for five years they're gonna pay me something as a retirement. Got another couple of

00:59:08.850 - 00:59:35.640

years to go. And so I decided that I wasn't doing that much. I wasn't working that hard. And the Children were living here. My wife died in July of 197 2017. I was alone and the Children lived in Houston and so I moved into Houston I

00:59:35.640 - 00:59:58.080

had the good fortune of being introduced to a woman who also was by herself and we hit it off. And when the pandemic came my Children and her Children suggested that instead of us living separately, we lived together. So I moved in with her. That's where

00:59:58.080 - 01:00:25.360

I'm living. Mhm. And we're each lives like everyone's life has changed a lot. We've been very fortunate that neither of us have with the minimum precautions we've taken. Neither of us have been affected by the corner virus and we hope to continue that. Sure. Are you?

01:00:25.370 - 01:00:48.190

So how have you been interacting with family most in person. Mostly on on facetime and bone eating at restaurants that have outdoor eating. And we have invited. As a matter of fact my daughter is coming to have evening meal with us tonight and my Michael, you

01:00:48.190 - 01:01:10.820

know my son daughter in law invite Marsha and I frequently for Shabbas dinner with them. And my son who lived in Chicago paul P. D. Is a psychologist and working here and he and I lived together in an apartment I've since moved out on him and

01:01:10.820 - 01:01:34.180

he's there. But um the lady I'm living with needs some free time occasionally. And so a couple of times a few days a week I spend over there. So that's how I stay in touch. And there are eight cousins who live in Houston first cousins. And

01:01:34.180 - 01:01:55.270

we get on zoom about once every two weeks who got to that live in Dallas. And the other six of us live here in Houston and I always grew up with one another. The family was very close and so we get together about once every two

01:01:55.270 - 01:02:13.900

weeks. Mm hmm. And uh that's nice. It's nice that you're able to to be with family and be with family in person. Um but also keep connected to the to the extended family using using zoom. What about Russia shana and Yom Kipper this year. How did

01:02:13.900 - 01:02:35.230

you, how did you mark the time? Well, I when I came, my son Michael had uh joined United Orthodox and that was after we had shut down all our services. So I started going there and found that even though I wasn't as much of a traditional

01:02:36.080 - 01:02:51.030

jewish person and as I don't wanna say religious but traditional as they were. As my son told me, they're more concerned about what they're supposed to do, not what I'm supposed to do. So they've accepted me in their community. And I find that I get a

01:02:51.030 - 01:03:19.020

great relief there. But with the corner virus they're having only outdoor services And recommending that people over age 65 don't come to the services. Now. We had a reservation services for the holidays that I attended. Russian pepper. But uh, other than that friday night and saturday

01:03:19.020 - 01:03:45.020

services are still outdoors under a tent. And not recommended that people my age come to the services. They've had a few of their members who have gotten the coronavirus infection. I don't think they've had a death but had some pretty serious illnesses. Yeah. No, it's most

01:03:45.020 - 01:04:03.520

important above all to be well and to be safe. Larry. It's been a pleasure talking to you and spending an hour together and I'm really grateful that you shared your stories about life in Warton with us and wish you all the best. Thank you very much.

01:04:03.530 - 01:04:26.130

Thank you. And josh. We're so glad that you're here and bringing such a wonderful thing as what Raissi Rice University has done with the jewish community of Houston, which is very vital. And the little bit of help we had in the donation that we were able

01:04:26.130 - 01:04:38.200

to see went to, uh, I'm sure help fund that program at Rise. It did. And I'm very grateful for that. Thank you. Larry so much.