00:00:01.460 - 00:00:13.490

Today is October 7th, 2021. My name is Joshua Furman. I am the curator of the Houston Jewish History Archive at Rice University, and I'm here with Larry and Joan Katz.

00:00:13.730 - 00:00:19.160

How are y'all doing today? Well. Doing well, thank you. Great. That's fantastic.

00:00:19.280 - 00:00:24.860

Um. That's at 92 and a half, 92 and a half. 92 and a half years young. Yes.

00:00:25.280 - 00:00:41.600

Wonderful. So why don't, uh, you each introduce yourselves for a few minutes, tell us when you were born, where you were born, and a little bit about your parents and how your family got to Texas. And, Larry, we're going to start with you.

00:00:41.780 - 00:00:57.200

When were you born? February the 15th, 1929, during the times of depression, almost. And I was born in the General Hospital, Waxahachie, Texas, and I was delivered there.

00:01:00.050 - 00:01:08.480

From. From there they took me home. That's about all I can tell you about. Nothing outstanding. But I was the first child of my mother and dad.

00:01:09.560 - 00:01:22.160

And what were your parents' names? Isidore katz. I-S-I-D-O-R-E Katz. And my mother's name was Annie Katz. It was Annie Grushefsky Katz.

00:01:22.370 - 00:01:33.440

And my dad's original name, I think, was Katzenelenbogen. Katzenelenbogen. Yes. Okay. And can you spell for us your mother's maiden name?

00:01:33.440 - 00:01:45.290

Because our the student who's going to be asked to transcribe. G-R-U-S-H-E-F-S-K-Y. Grushefsky. And they took on the name Gilbert. I can see why.

00:01:45.320 - 00:01:57.680

Yeah okay. All right, Larry, so how did your folks end up in Waxahachie, Texas? Well, I have to go through a history to begin with.

00:01:58.490 - 00:02:14.300

My father was apparently born in Bialystok, Poland, which is where his family had a business. I have no idea what kind of business. And so, for whatever reasons, and again, being a Jew

00:02:14.300 - 00:02:32.150

in Poland in those days, and up until the time the war started in the 1940s, it was the wrong place for a Jew to be, because I don't have to go into those details. But my father, long before that, probably in the 1930s,

00:02:32.150 - 00:02:50.240

ended up coming to America. He was an illegal immigrant, apparently, as I recall, what he told me is that he ended up with a passport from a woman in the United States. And, uh, they, apparently the woman lost her passport

00:02:50.810 - 00:03:04.310

somewhere or other. It was at a police station. And how my father and why my father went to that police station ended up with her passport, which was then ultimately changed to put his picture and name in that passport.

00:03:04.310 - 00:03:21.110

So he came here on a illegal passport. He ended up in New York City and he had cousins in Tyler, Texas who arranged to go see him. And as I recall, it was a really mix up.

00:03:21.110 - 00:03:38.570

My dad had had, no there was no telephones at that time. And so my dad, they told him he'd meet him at a certain place, which he wrote on a piece of paper. He lost the piece of paper and how he got past that, but he met them and they drove him to Texas.

00:03:38.570 - 00:03:54.240

And I don't know a lot after that point, but he ended up going in, coming to Waxahachie, how and why he got there, I don't know, but he ended up opening up his own business there under I.

00:03:54.240 - 00:04:08.810

Katz Department Store. And you saw that picture of Waxahachie's Courthouse, his first business was directly across the street from that courthouse. So when when you came to work every day, that's the first thing you saw.

00:04:08.810 - 00:04:17.570

And. And what kinds of things did your father sell in the store? General merchandise. Shirts. Well, I mostly focused on men's work clothes,

00:04:18.680 - 00:04:34.970

shoes, um, things of that sort. I had some women's wear, but he didn't get the the cream of the crop. White population did not trade with him necessarily. There were other, um, JCPenney had a store

00:04:34.970 - 00:04:52.010

there and other larger stores. And my father was right there on the square, and he had apparently met the mayor of Waxahachie, a fellow named Oliver Clift, at that time. And apparently, uh, he owned this building, as I recall

00:04:52.010 - 00:05:08.690

them, for sure. But my father ended up he put my father in business in that store. My father would go to Dallas at least once a week, once a month to buy merchandise, to bring in home and put it on the shelves and start selling.

00:05:08.690 - 00:05:21.590

And he developed a business there. And so that tells you how he got started. But my father, uh, had a different upbringing with regard to that forged passport.

00:05:24.570 - 00:05:43.530

I was already born, but I was just a maybe a young kid. And the FBI came and arrested my father and put him took him to jail. He was put on trial for deportation, and they told him he could voluntarily go to any country not

00:05:43.530 - 00:05:57.690

contiguous to the United States. He couldn't go to Canada and couldn't go to Mexico. And the only country possibly that he could go to was South Africa. And my mother, who was already married at the time, says, I'm not going with you.

00:05:58.260 - 00:06:10.830

So a lot of turmoil in that. And my father was getting letters from his family. And in Poland he had four sisters, two younger than him, two older than him.

00:06:11.010 - 00:06:21.000

I never knew them. No, I don't even know their names. But that was the history. So they got wrapped up in the genocide of the World

00:06:21.000 - 00:06:34.710

War Two and Hitler's Germany. And my father agonized on that. If he'd get a letter, he would sit there and study it. And but that soon stopped, and there was

00:06:34.710 - 00:06:49.470

no, no recourse there. He had no ability to communicate with them. And how was it that your father was was he spared from deportation? Well, they put again, I was just a child, baby, practically.

00:06:49.470 - 00:07:07.440

And they put him on trial in Waxahachie, Texas. And the jury came up with a not guilty verdict and allowed him to stay there with his wife. And I don't think I was born yet at that point, so.

00:07:07.650 - 00:07:16.170

Or maybe if I was, I was just a baby. I think you were- I think you said you were just a relatively young child. That gives you the background. What about your mother?

00:07:16.290 - 00:07:29.880

My mother was also from Poland. How they met, I really don't know. But I do know that, um, when they got after they got, uh, introduced, however they got introduced,

00:07:31.680 - 00:07:48.630

they got married on a on a Sunday because my father had his main business day was on Saturday Shabbat. And that was a dilemma for him all of his life, that he couldn't be in shul on that on that particular day.

00:07:48.630 - 00:08:02.580

So he, um. Gotta get back on my track again now. Uh, he brought. He got married in Dallas, Texas, in the backyard of

00:08:02.580 - 00:08:15.000

her, of one of her sisters. Last name was Rudnick. Rudnick. And. He, um. They spent the night, like, on a Friday night.

00:08:15.000 - 00:08:29.700

And the first thing they did the morning they got up, got in the car and drove to Waxahachie because he had to open his business. And, um, he he took my mother as she described it, to a one room, uh, a one bedroom home.

00:08:31.590 - 00:08:42.900

Wallpaper was peeling off the wall. You know, how they put how they put up wallpaper? They had, uh, a netting that they put on the wall, and they tacked the netting to the wall.

00:08:42.930 - 00:08:56.760

The walls were wood. And then they would put a paste on the netting and affix wallpaper. Well, this place was apparently pretty old and not very expensive, apparently,

00:08:56.760 - 00:09:05.610

as I would judge it. And the wallpaper was peeling off the wall. So he marries my mother. He brings her there, and he took her to poverty.

00:09:06.510 - 00:09:19.290

I mean, she might have had a sort of semblance of that in her own life, but that was not a good way to start. And I was born nine months later. Uh, she told me that she cried herself to sleep that night.

00:09:19.290 - 00:09:31.740

I challenged that, knowing when I was born. So? So anyway, that was the. That was the beginning story. Okay. Tell us just a little bit about, you know, growing up in Waxahachie,

00:09:31.740 - 00:09:49.050

Jewish kid, how big of a Jewish community was there? I think there were probably maybe four or 5 or 6 Jewish families there. Uh, the Byers, Byers, had a sort of a general store, including groceries a block away from my

00:09:49.050 - 00:10:06.730

dad. The Binders, binders, uh, had another small store on the east side of the square. My dad was on the south side of the square, and there was a fellow named Katz, no relationship, that had a

00:10:06.730 - 00:10:21.220

junkyard. And there was another fellow named Cohen that had another small men's menswear store, but he was not one of them. If they got together at all, he was not part of it.

00:10:21.220 - 00:10:36.280

He was like elevated above that group of immigrants that were there. And so I would say at most there were six Jewish families in Waxahachie. Tell me about Jewish holidays, Rosh Hashanah, Passover.

00:10:37.300 - 00:10:52.350

My father, every, every Shabbat, uh, well, it shouldn't say Shabbat. On Sundays, he would drive to Dallas to go to shul. He had to be open on Saturdays in contradiction of his beliefs otherwise he did.

00:10:52.350 - 00:11:08.890

The weekdays, uh, were not beneficial because the his main trade was probably from from the farmers who who paid their people off. And they didn't. They may have come, but they were not big spenders.

00:11:08.890 - 00:11:24.670

And the, the, the white class people did did not do business in my dad's store. There were other little higher-class businesses around. And. I'm trying to put the pieces

00:11:24.670 - 00:11:35.260

together. But anyway, my dad would always, he had to open the store. He he was an inveterate smoker. He smoked all the time. He did not smoke on Shabbat.

00:11:35.290 - 00:11:46.150

Right. Yeah. That must have been hard for him. And, um, ultimately, that's what killed him at a fairly young age too, uh, excess smoking. Did you did you also attend synagogue in Dallas?

00:11:46.540 - 00:11:57.100

Did you have a bar mitzvah there? Well, I had a bar mitzvah, but it was. I didn't have a lot of training. My dad sent me to Dallas and I lived with a rabbi for about a month,

00:11:57.940 - 00:12:10.840

and he tried to teach me. I was not a particularly good student because I had no background other than my dad teaching how to read the the alphabet in Hebrew, but I never knew what I was reading necessarily.

00:12:10.840 - 00:12:26.830

It was by rote. And so but, uh, my father always had a Friday night service. Always. My mother cooked and I had a younger brother and then two younger sisters beyond that.

00:12:26.830 - 00:12:37.270

So the family of four kids in that family. And what were your siblings' names? Your brothers and sisters? Edmund, E-D-M-U-N-D, Lynette,

00:12:37.270 - 00:12:52.750

L-Y-N-E-T-T-E and Ida. And both my brother and my older sister are both deceased. I still have a sister living in Cleveland, Ohio.

00:12:52.780 - 00:13:03.040

Uh, married with her own family. Wonderful. And? Going back, my dad would, drove me to to Dallas.

00:13:03.160 - 00:13:18.220

He didn't have time on a Shabbat, but he drove me to Dallas for Sunday school. So I had a little bit of background of Hebrew studies, but not not a lot. What about anti-Semitism growing up?

00:13:18.220 - 00:13:33.610

I mean, did people pick on you because you were Jewish or it wasn't a problem? I don't remember one episode that I might have been picked on as a Jew, but, uh, I could hold my own. And if I got in a fight, I took care of myself.

00:13:34.480 - 00:13:49.120

And. But the guy, the people, the kids I went to grade school were just nice kids. The black people lived in the black side. The Mexican people don't know where they lived, but it was strictly segregated.

00:13:49.630 - 00:13:59.080

They said not formal, but just the way where people lived. And so Did you have black customers coming to the store? A lot of them,

00:13:59.290 - 00:14:10.540

Yeah. Do you remember any interactions with them that you did you work in the store growing up? I did work in the store always. From the time I from the first store that was across the street from the court,

00:14:10.540 - 00:14:25.700

from the courthouse or that, um. I was, first day, I was probably six years old. My dad says you're in charge of shoelaces. And people tying their shoes, you come in and need a pair of shoelaces?

00:14:25.700 - 00:14:38.810

And they were probably a nickel. And I was in charge of that little spot in the store. And if somebody came in and said they wanted to buy a pair of pants, well, my dad had them stacked on a table like this.

00:14:38.810 - 00:14:52.250

They were stacked high. I'd have to jump up on top of the pants and pull them apart to get what I wanted. But I was pretty aggressive and that. So I was brought up to be a salesperson, meaning I was customer

00:14:52.250 - 00:15:03.950

came in, we made sure he was taken care of. Yeah. Didn't matter what didn't matter the color of the skin? After 5:00, they were still there. If it was Sunday morning, somebody happened to be straggling by.

00:15:03.950 - 00:15:16.370

The doors were always open. Uh huh. Wow. And so he he worked contradictory to the rules of Judaism that you go to Shabbat, uh, services, uh, on the weekends.

00:15:17.180 - 00:15:32.270

Uh huh. That didn't happen too very often. I mean, we always. My dad took off from the High Holy Days. We moved in with my, uh, my aunt and uncle in Dallas and spent a couple of days in Dallas going to synagogue.

00:15:32.270 - 00:15:48.410

And he would, uh, it was probably a half a mile to the synagogue walk there. And I got an image in my mind. I think about it all the time. My my grandfather, who didn't speak English, I mean, it was strictly

00:15:48.410 - 00:16:05.660

Yiddish. And, uh, he walked, uh, he had a difficult time walking. And so I would say that it would have taken us 30 minutes to walk to the synagogue from where he lived, my dad said, or my mother said, I don't

00:16:05.660 - 00:16:20.080

know which one. Go with your grandfather. He wants to go to shul early and he can go. So he and I took off, and probably we walked as far as the end of our home here.

00:16:20.860 - 00:16:30.130

He couldn't make it. And I'm about six years old. Five years old, I don't know. I said, Zadie, wait a minute.

00:16:30.130 - 00:16:36.550

And I ran back to get my parents. And they came and he couldn't. He just couldn't make it. So he was in the last stages of his life.

00:16:36.550 - 00:16:51.760

And so I remember an episode, we always had a black maid, and they were always nice to me, I mean, and to my mother. And so she worked in the store, too, so she had to take care of the house, but she had a maid there to take care of the kids.

00:16:52.450 - 00:17:07.770

And where was I? Just a second. Um. Oh. So anyway, when my grandfather died. I wanted to. I wanted to see him and he was already in the hospital and they wouldn't let

00:17:07.770 - 00:17:20.460

me go in to see him. He died that same day. And so this maid came in. It was it was probably 10 or 11:00 at night, or maybe not that late,

00:17:20.550 - 00:17:31.800

probably a little earlier. And so we had to go get, uh. What the heck was her name? I've forgotten her name. We went to, uh, go in and get it, Joanie.

00:17:34.590 - 00:17:46.890

We went to the black neighborhood to get get this maid. It was a Sunday morning. They had they had to go back to Dallas. And, uh, I'm about five years old.

00:17:46.890 - 00:18:00.870

Little white kid. My mother and dad, they waited out in the car, and the church was going on full, I mean, full. I walk in the I walk into the church and all the heads come to me. I mean, oh, Minister wasn't there.

00:18:00.870 - 00:18:15.120

I'm walking from the front. Minister's down here at the pulpit and all, and I'm walking in, little kid, white kid, walking into this church. All eyes were on me and I walked in and said.

00:18:18.190 - 00:18:29.590

I need to get Hattie. Hattie was the maid's name. And Hattie came and took me by the hand and walked me out of the church, back to my mother and dad who had stayed in the car.

00:18:29.770 - 00:18:40.130

You didn't hear that part of it, Joanie? I've heard it. And so, anyway, they we they took us home.

00:18:40.280 - 00:18:46.520

And that's when they went to Dallas, I guess. So they had me with her. And they left you with her? That's not exactly true.

00:18:46.520 - 00:18:57.470

They left her with my brother and sisters. But I went to Dallas with them. And so at the end, when after I, my, my grandfather went back, they picked him up and took him back to the house.

00:18:57.470 - 00:19:12.260

They took him to the hospital and they wouldn't let me go in to see him. I remember and he died in the hospital. Yeah, just a day, maybe a day after he got there. And so that's the background.

00:19:12.320 - 00:19:20.780

Okay, well, this is incredible memories. I mean, you think about they. Were just stories that stick with me forever. Yeah. That's great.

00:19:20.780 - 00:19:31.070

All right. We're going to come to you again in a few minutes and talk about going to Rice. But I, I think it's Joan's turn. So Joan, tell us about about your parents and where you grew up.

00:19:31.070 - 00:19:42.950

Before we do that, let me interject here. I was the my brother was two years younger than me. Okay. And, uh, my brother was more athletic than I was.

00:19:42.950 - 00:19:59.210

I was an overweight kid, and I just wanted to bring up these items here. I had friends, no Jewish friends, no kids my own age.

00:19:59.210 - 00:20:11.750

And I used to play pick up baseball or football. We had a couple of empty lots. We were around playing together all the way. Never felt any discrimination for being Jewish.

00:20:12.380 - 00:20:23.630

Uh, never. And so. I just want to interject that. Thank you know, that's an important point to make.

00:20:23.960 - 00:20:37.100

It's really important to hear. My my closest friend was a fellow named John Herendon. H-E-R-E-N-D-O-N. His father was a banker. My father did business with that bank, so I knew his father.

00:20:37.100 - 00:20:44.690

His father taught me how to play baseball. When I started to play baseball, when I got on. You ever played baseball? It's been a long time, but.

00:20:44.690 - 00:20:56.090

Yeah, but. If you're a right-handed, your left hand is below and right hand. I was batting cross handed. Mr. Herendon, John's father, came in and said, that's

00:20:56.090 - 00:21:05.990

not the way you do it. And incidentally, I was never a Larry. I didn't get Larry until later on. I took that name because it was always L.G. Gilbert. I was named after L.G.

00:21:05.990 - 00:21:19.480

Gilbert, my, I guess my mother's my mother's father, uncle, uncle. I'm sorry. Uncle from Fort Worth, Texas. And. During the

00:21:19.480 - 00:21:33.130

war, my mother would save my U.S. stamps, the saving stamps. And when she got $18.75 for a stamp, you went to the bank you traded in for a war bond.

00:21:34.390 - 00:21:48.660

And so I can remember that when they walked in. What name do you want on the bond? L. G Katz, we cannot accept initials. So it was LL (INITIALS ONLY) Katz.

00:21:53.830 - 00:22:07.900

So every time I bought a bond or did anything, I had to go go through that routine. And I was not happy with that. So, um, so anyway, I decided to take it somewhere

00:22:08.590 - 00:22:23.890

along the line. I decided to take a name, and I picked the name because my uncle was an LG Gilbert. I picked my name, I was nicknamed or my name was taken from was LG Katz and I picked Lawrence and I picked Gilbert.

00:22:24.910 - 00:22:36.490

Lawrence Gilbert Katz. And that's the way I ended up with a Larry. Not my not the name given to me by my parents. And so just to clarify, we're going to get to Joan in a second because I said we would and

00:22:36.490 - 00:22:51.580

we will. The name given to you by your parents was.. LG. And then they put. On your birth certificate, it says LG? No, no, no, my birth certificate was some other name and I

00:22:51.580 - 00:23:05.200

never used it. I don't I don't even remember what it was. And so, so uh, when I had to put that on, I finally instead of I walked down, I picked my own name, and that's the way I got Lawrence Gilbert Katz. Joan says.

00:23:05.200 - 00:23:13.090

Joan says you were born as Louis. Born where? Joan? Louis, I think, is the name that your parents gave you.

00:23:13.120 - 00:23:25.030

Louis. I think they gave you the name Louis. Lepke was my Jewish. Yeah, but Louis, I think. And they didn't spell it the way you wanted to spell it later on, too, so that's why you

00:23:25.030 - 00:23:33.430

decided to make a complete change. But I think that was when you went to Rice. LG and Larry. Joan, when you when you met him, what name did he go by?

00:23:33.580 - 00:23:40.390

He was already Larry. He was already Larry by that time. Because I think he got he became LG when he was at Rice. Got it.

00:23:40.390 - 00:23:51.340

Okay. One of the girls he dated decided he was a Larry. Decided he was a Larry. Okay, well, we're all thankful for her. All right, Joan, tell us about your family and where you grew up.

00:23:51.730 - 00:24:06.190

Well, um, my name is Joan Katz. Joan Krupp Katz. My parents were from the former Soviet Union, and my father immigrated, uh, to Galveston, Texas, in

00:24:06.190 - 00:24:22.960

1913. My mother's family, um, they were related. My my mother's and father's grandparents were brothers. They immigrated to Canada, to Winnipeg, Canada, and my father came in 1913.

00:24:22.960 - 00:24:40.540

My mother came on the last boat that left Europe before World War 1 in 1914. And, um, but my father came to Galveston, Texas. He had relatives in Houston, but he stayed in

00:24:40.690 - 00:24:56.320

Galveston and worked at the cotton factory, whatever it was, right there in Galveston and stayed there. He learned English, uh, by sitting at the Rosenberg Library and in Galveston.

00:24:56.320 - 00:25:04.630

To teach himself English. What was your father's name Joan? His. He was Maurice Krupp. Krupp?

00:25:04.960 - 00:25:15.070

Yes. His name was he. He changed his name. His original name was Kropevsky. And I'm really not sure how to spell it because I've tried.

00:25:15.100 - 00:25:29.560

I think it must have been K-R-O-P-E-V-S-K-Y. Uh, my mother's, uh, family, when they immigrated, her name had also been Kropevsky. They changed it to Krupp.

00:25:29.740 - 00:25:39.790

And when my parents married, my father took my mother's name. Oh, interesting. So, um, that's how I became Joan Krupp.

00:25:40.180 - 00:25:57.580

I had two older sisters, and we lived, um, uh, when I was born, my father, uh, stayed in Galveston until 19- the storm in 1915. And then he came to Houston and we lived in I

00:25:57.730 - 00:26:15.640

think the family lived in a few other houses, but I grew up, uh, and but they were all on the North side where a lot of the Jewish community, the Jewish community was on the Near North Side, not far from downtown, but the north side of Houston.

00:26:15.640 - 00:26:28.090

That's where you grew up. And I grew up there, graduated and went to Sherman Elementary. Uh, John, um, Marshall Junior High, John Marshall Junior High, and Jeff Davis.

00:26:28.090 - 00:26:40.330

There were no Jewish kids in her classes. Um, in high school, there were three Jewish kids, but in elementary. And in my kindergarten class, there were Jewish kids, too.

00:26:40.360 - 00:26:56.440

And, um, but then in middle school, there were not. And my friends were, the I had the Jewish friends when I was in elementary school, but they, I also had most of my friends were non-Jewish growing up.

00:26:56.440 - 00:27:11.380

And I never, ever experienced any anti-Semitism. And where was the family home that you grew up in you said? 1924 Chapman Street on the North Street, right on the north side, right near, uh, Hogan.

00:27:11.410 - 00:27:20.320

Hogan Street. That was the cross street. It was not an affluent Jewish neighborhood. But it was the Jewish. It was where a lot of Jewish people lived.

00:27:20.560 - 00:27:33.100

By the time I was born, there were not, most of the Jewish families had moved to the southeast part of the city. Right. But, uh, yeah, to McGregor, Almeida off, off.

00:27:33.400 - 00:27:51.130

But yeah, but I grew up and could walk to all the schools, and my father's business was located not that far away so that he could come home for lunch if necessary. And, and so we, um, we lived there,

00:27:51.130 - 00:28:03.670

and I lived there really, until I graduated from college. What was your father's business? He was in primarily was in the auto parts business, used cars.

00:28:03.670 - 00:28:17.110

He should have been a teacher, in my opinion. Used cars and auto parts. He he did not know much about mechanics or things of that sort, but he went into business with a partner, non-Jewish partner

00:28:17.320 - 00:28:24.880

who was the mechanic who took things apart. My her father did the bookkeeping and did all the He was the business part. The business

00:28:24.880 - 00:28:38.470

The business partner. Okay. So so it worked out as a good partnership for the two of them. Yeah. Somebody had the auto mechanic know how and somebody else had the bookkeeping. It was during the during the World War two when

00:28:39.160 - 00:28:52.900

he was in that business. So the parts, the auto parts business was, since no new cars were available because of the war, um, the, the auto parts business was very important.

00:28:52.900 - 00:29:04.150

Yeah, absolutely. Tell me about did you did you grow up attending synagogue? Were you a member of any Jewish clubs? No. Uh, our family did not belong to a synagogue when I

00:29:04.150 - 00:29:16.420

was growing up. I do remember going with my father on one occasion. I think it was Yom Kippur. Uh, uh, and, uh, and and went to synagogue. But we did not grow up.

00:29:16.960 - 00:29:33.880

Um, I do remember going to visit cousins who lived on the south in the southeast section, and, and I knew that they belonged to synagogue, but we never belonged to synagogue. My first experience really with, uh, although my

00:29:33.880 - 00:29:51.160

mother was very well schooled in gastronomic Judaism, she prepared all the dishes. And I did grow up knowing what all the Jewish foods were. Uh, but my first experience with the religious

00:29:51.790 - 00:30:02.260

part of Judaism was in at Hillel, at the University of Texas. Okay. So we should talk about that in a minute. But tell me more about your mother.

00:30:03.040 - 00:30:18.400

My mother was, she was a dynamo. She never learned to drive a car, but she was active in the PTA. And she would learn and teach and come back.

00:30:18.400 - 00:30:35.590

She always made sure I had all the tools for learning. She went to the librarian to ask what encyclopedias that I needed to have in order to do well in school. And I was a very good student, and, uh, I but

00:30:35.920 - 00:30:46.690

she, uh, was a balabusta. She could do everything. She actually was. When you talk about recycling, my mother recycled everything.

00:30:46.690 - 00:31:01.270

She made my clothes from my father's shirts, pants, suits. And, um, she made my sister's clothes. And I never felt as if it was a deprivation. I always felt she was talented.

00:31:01.270 - 00:31:16.480

I never liked trying them on, and having to be fitted for the clothes, but she. She really did a, um, she, she was a balabusta to be able to do any kind of or any sewing, any,

00:31:16.480 - 00:31:25.360

any cooking. She was a fabulous baker. In fact, later on in life, she baked at Brith Shalom when when I was active at Brith Shalom.

00:31:25.360 - 00:31:36.470

Oh, wow. I get to because and my friends still talk about my mother sitting in a corner in the kitchen in Brith Shalom and baking, turning out her her cookies.

00:31:37.100 - 00:31:48.290

Wow. Now I'm getting hungry. And her her, um. My mother's family was in Winnipeg, and we used to visit, um, my grandmother and my.

00:31:48.410 - 00:31:55.940

And we would drive from Houston. You drive from Houston to Winnipeg? We drive, well, there was that was the that was the option. Oh my lord.

00:31:55.940 - 00:32:11.870

Later on when I was in high school, I would go by train with my mother, but we would drive. And my father never liked being on the road late in the afternoon. So we would leave very early in the morning and drive till about 4:00,

00:32:11.870 - 00:32:26.510

find a motel, which were that weren't that many in those days. But we used to, uh, we we drove. I remember two specific, uh, trips to go to Winnipeg to visit relatives.

00:32:26.750 - 00:32:34.190

Uh huh. Wow, that's quite something. What was your mother's name? I can't remember if I asked you. My mother's name. My father was Maurice. My mother was Anne.

00:32:34.190 - 00:32:46.220

Was Anne okay, Maurice and Anne. And my mother was Anne as well as my mother-in-law was Annie. Was Anne and Annie. Okay. Very good.

00:32:46.220 - 00:32:59.540

And just I mean, tell me a little bit more about, you know, the Houston of your childhood. Like you said, it was a little bit atypical from a lot of the, you know, other Jewish girls your age growing up in more, you know, the McGregor area. It was interesting.

00:32:59.540 - 00:33:18.650

I later learned that that area of town currently is called, probably called the Barrios. But when I was in school there, you didn't have to lock your door. You could walk to the corner grocery store, why I walked two blocks to catch the bus, the south main bus that went down Main

00:33:18.650 - 00:33:33.170

Street. I walked another couple of blocks, uh, in in the different direction to catch the ? bus that took me to actually to the Jewish neighborhood. Huh. Um, but and this was later on.

00:33:33.170 - 00:33:52.940

But my friends and I from about 9 or 10 would take the bus and go downtown, go to the Metropolitan, uh, theater or the majestic or the Lowes or the Kirby. But a lot of time went to the Metropolitan, where they had stage shows

00:33:52.940 - 00:34:06.140

in addition to the movies. Uh, and we'd eat at the Forum Cafeteria or James Coney Island. But we would always felt very comfortable. My parents letting me walk.

00:34:06.140 - 00:34:24.260

My mother would say to me, do you know where to get off the bus? And I'd tell her, It's Stowers Furniture Store, and she'd say, if Stowers burns down during the night, do you know what street to get off of so that you know exactly how to get there?

00:34:25.610 - 00:34:37.910

Yeah. That's incredible. You know, I mean, nowadays, you, you know, you could be arrested for sending your kids, you know, downtown on a bus by themselves. But we had just and we felt you never felt threatened or

00:34:37.910 - 00:34:52.130

unsafe. The same as I said many times, I don't even remember locking our doors. And I do remember walking after dark, um, in, in the neighborhood and feeling completely safe.

00:34:52.160 - 00:35:06.650

Uh huh. My first piano teacher lived in the house next door. He was a Hispanic gentleman who, um, I would just walk over next door, and he taught me not a, b, c, d, e,

00:35:06.650 - 00:35:16.730

but Do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do. I do remember that. And I still think of that when I'm playing the piano, to think of how he taught me the notes.

00:35:16.730 - 00:35:26.270

All these years later. That's that's great. All right, um, Larry, back to you. Tell us about, uh, coming to the Rice Institute.

00:35:29.380 - 00:35:45.230

When I was in high school. I knew I wanted to go to school, but I didn't know where, and I figured the only place I could go would be to a state supported school. And my dad did not want me to go to the University of Texas.

00:35:45.530 - 00:36:01.460

In his mind, that was a play school, and he didn't want me to go to school just to play around. So about the only choice I had was to go to Texas Tech in Lubbock, which is a hell of a long way off when the kind of car my dad drove went about 20 miles an hour.

00:36:03.920 - 00:36:16.550

Uh huh. And so for some reason, I knew my principal and and the superintendent of the school was a fellow named Tyree Wilemon.

00:36:16.550 - 00:36:33.770

I don't know how to spell it w I l e m o n or something like that. And I went to him and told him what my dilemma was, and he says, have you ever thought about going to Rice? At that time it was Rice Institute.

00:36:35.450 - 00:36:46.370

I said no. And whatever transpired after that, he recommended that I apply because there was no tuition. Big factor at that time.

00:36:46.640 - 00:36:59.630

So I had a scholarship. I don't think I got I didn't have to pay much for my schooling. In other words, I didn't get in the direct payment. That was tuition free at that time.

00:36:59.660 - 00:37:08.240

Pardon? I thought Rice was tuition free. If you were able if you were able to get accepted, you could go. But I worked in the cafeteria.

00:37:08.240 - 00:37:17.840

I was a busboy. My other friends didn't have to go through that, but I graded all. We ended up grading papers.

00:37:17.840 - 00:37:32.490

Anything I could to make a little bit of money. Uh huh. And. Developed a few close friends there, but we. I lived in the dorms, so I always had a roommate that I didn't know and that

00:37:32.490 - 00:37:47.580

was either good or bad, whatever the case might be. But I lived in South Hall, which is one of the main older buildings there. But I enjoyed my my life there very, very much.

00:37:48.090 - 00:38:05.310

And, uh, and interject this. The only time I had a visit, my dad learned there was first of all, there was a train that went from Dallas to, through Waxahachie to Houston, and I ended up

00:38:06.330 - 00:38:18.500

contracting the measles. And so I was put in. They took me to a hall and there was a room there. That's where I stayed while I had the measles.

00:38:18.980 - 00:38:33.410

My dad heard about that. He got on the train and came down to see me. And the building where I was in on the first floor is that my dad has told us he would have been about this far below the edge of the window that

00:38:33.410 - 00:38:47.360

I'm looking out of. So he's up looking at me. They wouldn't let him in because I was contagious. So my dad had had taken the train four hour ride and he was talking to me for probably an hour.

00:38:48.110 - 00:38:58.460

I'm looking down and he's looking up. And that was my interview. The only time my dad ever came to visit me the whole time I was in school. Wow.

00:38:58.460 - 00:39:10.070

So that just a little episode. Were you in any of the student clubs at rice? Any clubs? I don't recall any clubs that I was in at Rice.

00:39:10.640 - 00:39:16.730

Well, you were in the Menorah Society. I was in the Menorah Society. You became president. Well, that's correct too.

00:39:16.730 - 00:39:29.660

Okay. That's something. Do you remember anything about the Menorah Society? Well, it was the only way of meeting a few people there. I don't know, it was not a very, uh, beneficial

00:39:32.010 - 00:39:39.870

club. When I worked, we didn't do anything for the kids. We didn't do anything. We met occasionally. And it was more social, I guess. Pardon?

00:39:39.870 - 00:39:54.000

More social, more social. More social than anything else. And, uh, had a number of friends in that club. My second year, Arthur Beck was my, uh,

00:39:54.000 - 00:40:12.450

one of the my classmates, and he and I roomed together. Um, probably the only time I ever had a anti-Semitic episode was my first year. And one of the kids there said something to me that I didn't like. It wasn't nothing big, but I can't remember any other

00:40:13.440 - 00:40:29.130

problem. The only time I. Only time I had a problem, uh, when I said that is when I first arrived at Rice, they, uh, they had some bullies in the in the, uh, the next class above us that took advantage of

00:40:29.130 - 00:40:46.830

telling us what we should do, when we should do, and how we should do it. And I remember going to a football game, and they made us walk out during the halftime, walk out onto the field and take your shoes off and throw them into a pile,

00:40:49.290 - 00:41:04.020

you know, for probably 25 or 50 kids taking off their shoes, how would you ever find them? So I never found my shoes after that. But, uh, that was something I remember. So you lost your shoes at the football game?

00:41:04.980 - 00:41:10.110

Yeah, at a football game? Yeah. Wow. Now nobody would even know that.

00:41:10.110 - 00:41:26.130

I wouldn't remember it. But, um, after that, they took me someplace, and there was one guy, whether it was anti-Jewish or whatever. The problem was, he had a broom. Can't bend over and touch your toes.

00:41:26.130 - 00:41:36.540

And he swatted me and beat the hell out of me. And I was unhappy. But I thought that was just hazing from an upperclassman, not, I don't think it was anything.

00:41:36.780 - 00:41:43.560

I'll never forget that. It was the only issue that I ever had from being hazed when I was in school. Oh my gosh.

00:41:43.560 - 00:41:58.920

And he was a, uh, maybe a sophomore or junior ahead of me, so I had no clout. I'm sort of just there. I'm a, you know, no family members, no what have you.

00:41:58.920 - 00:42:09.000

And so that was something stuck in my mind. Oh my gosh. I know you also participated in intramural sports. Yeah I played intramural sports.

00:42:09.000 - 00:42:22.050

Okay. Basketball not football. Okay. What what what classes did you take? Is there a professor that you remember liking?

00:42:23.490 - 00:42:40.320

Professor Simons, S-I-M-O-N-S, was my accounting teacher, and I had a good, uh, feeling for for numbers. Not not some of the numbers that when you get into the higher classification numbers.

00:42:40.320 - 00:42:53.790

That was not me. Calculus. That's not me, but basic math, I was pretty good at. My math teacher, taught bookkeeping responsibilities, things of that sort.

00:42:54.030 - 00:43:06.510

And I have to. I'm dredging up now thoughts of, uh. Those were my early classes at Rice, but I was.

00:43:06.510 - 00:43:21.900

I earned money by being the hall monitor. In other words, if anything was wrong, I was on the third floor of South Hall and if anything went askew, I reported it and got taken care of. I worked in the cafeteria, helping to serve.

00:43:22.410 - 00:43:37.170

I was a hall monitor, so if anything came up on my floor, I had to report it and what have you. So I got paid a little bit of money for doing that because my dad wasn't sending me very much.

00:43:37.170 - 00:43:52.890

And that's that background of schooling. A lot of the other, uh, Jewish students from Houston didn't live on the Rice campus. So, uh, they lived at home and commuted to Rice.

00:43:54.150 - 00:44:09.600

Whereas Larry lived in the dorm and had that experience. And I think he really appreciated having had that experience. Yeah. Having to go away and... Rice was a privilege for me, because if it hadn't been

00:44:09.600 - 00:44:23.220

for, uh, Mr. Tyree Wilemon at Waxahachie, I would never even thought about going to school there. I just didn't want to go to to Lubbock, Texas, to go to a state supported school, which was the only place I could have gone, because that was sort of a

00:44:23.220 - 00:44:41.260

lower-class school, uh, at that point. Yeah. But uh, I can remember that when I got accepted to Rice, my dad put me on a train and sent me

00:44:41.740 - 00:44:51.910

to Houston on this train. And I get off in Central Station. You know what Central Station is now? It's the site of the Houston baseball team.

00:44:51.940 - 00:44:57.040

Oh, yeah. Pardon. Union Station. Union station. Yeah.

00:44:57.160 - 00:45:06.100

That was Union station. They tore Union Station out and put the baseball right. Uh. The Astros are going to start the playoff game day today.

00:45:06.130 - 00:45:18.130

This afternoon. Yeah. So in an hour. Uh, so, anyway, I when I get to Houston by myself, I had not been to Houston.

00:45:18.790 - 00:45:28.090

I called a cab. I had about 10 or 15 or $20 my dad had given me. And I said, where do you want to go? Rice University?

00:45:28.690 - 00:45:38.860

I don't know, I didn't know where it was or what I was going to. I'd never been there before. So the cab took me to the corner of Main Street. And what's the other street that cuts across?

00:45:39.640 - 00:45:50.260

Not sunset, but, uh, maybe at the entrance of rice. Well, there's main and sunset at one side. Sunset. And now, I mean, now there's no university.

00:45:50.620 - 00:45:54.460

On Main Street. Yeah. Sunset, I think. Sunset? Yeah.

00:45:55.000 - 00:46:03.700

I'm there at the main entrance of rice. When you look at it, you see the main principal buildings. Yeah, that's main in Sunset Quadrangle. So the cab takes me there.

00:46:04.090 - 00:46:22.330

You said Rice. This is Rice. He puts me out of the cab at that point, not he didn't take me inside. He didn't. And I've got two suitcases, and I'm walking up that long drive not knowing where I was or what I

00:46:22.330 - 00:46:36.850

was doing. And that was my my entrance into Rice. I remember you told me that you thought all of Hermann Park was part of Rice too. Uh huh. Didn't know where I was going. So I was really what they call a Yoko.

00:46:37.000 - 00:46:48.670

Uh huh. Yeah. At that point, my introduction, in some way or other, it worked out. Uh huh. Are you. Are you still in touch with any of the people that you graduated with?

00:46:49.000 - 00:47:00.100

Uh, the ones I was close to are all dead now. Uh huh. The. There was Jack Kraft, Bob Squires. Arthur Beck.

00:47:00.430 - 00:47:15.940

Arthur Beck was Jewish. Jewish. Isaac Trachtenberg I don't know if he's still alive or not, but. And my last year, I think I was a I was the elected president of the Hillel.

00:47:16.750 - 00:47:31.480

And at one point I had a big picture taken and I don't think, I don't know, whatever happened to that picture of all the classmates. We had a big party, and we took a picture of everybody standing up and the picture disappeared.

00:47:31.540 - 00:47:40.750

No one else would have had a copy of it. Well, if you find it, you let me know. I've been looking every place for that picture. But you told me doctor Abraham Sacher from, um,

00:47:41.860 - 00:47:54.040

from Brandeis University is the one who came and installed you as president. And and it went from the Menorah Society to become Hillel. Ah, okay.

00:47:54.820 - 00:48:05.710

There were a few connections there. And, uh, what's his name? Melvin Dows family were attorneys, and they went to their home a couple of times for dinner.

00:48:05.710 - 00:48:11.800

I mean, there was a. They treated they they were very welcoming to him. Oh, okay. The Dow family.

00:48:11.950 - 00:48:21.130

Sure. Yeah, sure. Very good. Well, the next part is how did I meet Joan? And how did that progress.

00:48:21.130 - 00:48:33.460

That is the next part. Yeah. Well, I had a friend, a man named Norman Ross, and Norman Ross was a Canadian.

00:48:34.330 - 00:48:51.550

Had gone to work for Sun Life of Canada, which I'm passing over the fact. How in the hell did I go into the life insurance business? Because I had no money and here I, I had graduated, but let me I have to go back

00:48:51.790 - 00:49:04.600

a little bit because I've got to mess out the whole part. When I graduated from Rice, I kept worrying that I was going to be drafted, and I didn't want to be drafted into the Army. That didn't appeal to me.

00:49:04.930 - 00:49:20.300

So. I took it upon myself to apply for a direct commission into the US Air Force. Got on a bus, went to, uh, to, uh, San Antonio.

00:49:20.630 - 00:49:29.210

Larry hang on. What what what year was this? When did you finish at Rice? Uh, this would have been in 1951. He graduated in 1950.

00:49:29.210 - 00:49:35.660

50. Graduated in 1950. Okay. I went to work. When I got out of Rice, I didn't know what I wanted to do at all.

00:49:35.660 - 00:49:42.890

I just had no direction, and I. There was an offer to go to work for Foley's. Ever heard of the word Foley's? Sure, absolutely.

00:49:43.160 - 00:49:57.540

Big department stores chain. So I went to work for Foley's and I was put in charge of doing research on sales, you know, where do the people live and where do they come from?

00:49:57.540 - 00:50:05.580

And I'm sitting, shuffling paper all day long. That was not me. And so I didn't stick with that very long. I didn't know what to do.

00:50:05.580 - 00:50:21.240

And also at that time, the draft was right behind me. I didn't know, I didn't want to get drafted into the Army. So, uh, uh, we got an application and submitted an application to get a commission in the Air Force.

00:50:22.770 - 00:50:37.980

And I was still working, uh, but I was not happy doing what I was doing, and so. I was called for an interview in, uh, in San Antonio, and I walk in, I forgot it was an officer interviewed me.

00:50:37.980 - 00:50:54.150

He was older than me and started asking me some of the same type of questions. Why do you want to go into the Air Force and whatever have you? And he he told me a story about Waxahachie, Texas. And I've got to think back whether I can remember the story, but I don't think I can

00:50:54.150 - 00:51:07.680

remember that story right now. And so we hit it off pretty well, and I had to come back for a second interview. And the first thing I know, I was granted a commission as a second

00:51:07.680 - 00:51:20.880

lieutenant in the US Air Force. No background in the military, no nothing. Here I am, and but I didn't get I was not subject to the draft at that point. So, uh, so I went into the Air Force and.

00:51:24.640 - 00:51:35.770

There are a lot of details about that, but it was a very interesting experience of my life. Did you go overseas? No. Never went overseas.

00:51:35.980 - 00:51:51.310

It was all stationed. I was stationed in Indianapolis, Indiana, for the most part, and doing doing work for another fellow that that was like a. I say a parent to me in that phase. He was my boss.

00:51:51.310 - 00:52:00.670

He was a Major. I was a second lieutenant. And when I got through, I had no military training. And so how do you salute?

00:52:00.670 - 00:52:16.930

I mean, I didn't know anything about the military, but I was doing I was working in a civilian atmosphere, doing all kinds of paperwork for the US Air Force, had my own car, lived off campus and never lived on a base. And so.

00:52:18.780 - 00:52:33.720

That was my episode of the military. But you were also at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and in Ohio. And and he happened to have his roommate from college there as well.

00:52:33.750 - 00:52:41.220

Oh, interesting. Had a couple of them. Yeah. Small world. And, uh, I had

00:52:41.220 - 00:52:58.440

no. And during the time I was there, we were I worked in a unit supplying aluminum wiring and everything to make airplanes. And we had to approve the request for materials from the manufacturers, and we'd check it off and what they needed.

00:52:58.440 - 00:53:10.140

And I was just a sub. My boss was a was a was a major. And I'd say, is this okay? I mean, it was I didn't have any input into it.

00:53:10.290 - 00:53:24.120

I was just doing a menial job. But I did that for about six months. And then that was the beginning of my military career, which was not, uh.

00:53:24.120 - 00:53:37.040

And so this fella um told me a story about Waxahachie. When the major that interviewed me told me about a story about Waxahachie. But I don't recall it right this minute.

00:53:37.280 - 00:53:51.710

That's okay. Why don't we get why don't we get back to the story of how the two of you met? All right, I have to go back a little bit. I didn't like working for Foley's before I went into the Air Force, and I wasn't going

00:53:51.710 - 00:54:03.680

back to it. So when I came back and I really don't remember how I met a Norman Ross. He was working for some money. He was working. He had he was fairly new.

00:54:03.710 - 00:54:15.780

He was quite a bit older. I'm I'm in my 20s. He's in his 40s, probably. And. He introduced me to the

00:54:15.780 - 00:54:30.690

manager, and the manager asked me if I wanted to go consider going into the life insurance business. I have no idea what life insurance was at that time. Single, don't have any responsibilities. And so he talked me into taking a contract.

00:54:30.690 - 00:54:44.700

Signed a contract with Sun Life of Canada. Major life insurance company. And his name was was Russ Ekeblad. And Russ Ekeblad was like a kindly elderly, I'd say

00:54:44.700 - 00:54:57.000

he was not old. He was probably in his 60s or something at that point. Just was a kind gentleman and said, I'd like to have you go to work in the life insurance business.

00:54:58.320 - 00:55:13.800

And so that's where I met Norman Ross was already working there. And so. He was from Canada originally. Norman was from from from Winnipeg also where my family was

00:55:13.800 - 00:55:23.160

from. I'll skip my my career for a minute. Norman knew her parents. And he said, I want to introduce you to somebody.

00:55:24.510 - 00:55:39.420

And apparently he knew Joan and he took me over to meet her parents. And I went there and her mother offered me some cookies. Now you'd say 2 or 3 cookies.

00:55:39.420 - 00:55:52.020

She handed me a can this big full of chocolate cookies she made. I started digging in those. I made I probably ate half the pan. Her mother fell in love with me.

00:55:52.020 - 00:55:59.580

Okay. For liking her cooking. Now, wait, was Joan? Was Joan even there or? I wasn't there the day he, Norman, brought him over.

00:55:59.580 - 00:56:10.020

I had been I had seen Norman when he came to visit my parents the night before. And then he, uh, asked. Larry told her he wanted to.

00:56:10.410 - 00:56:22.020

He had told me he wanted me to meet someone. And then he told Larry. And so he brought Larry over to the house. I didn't know when he was coming, but I actually, that day, I had a sorority rush

00:56:22.020 - 00:56:29.910

party that I went to. And so he that's why he ended up meeting my mother instead of me at first. Okay.

00:56:30.030 - 00:56:42.930

Then he called me afterwards. This was a year after my year. This was after I'd been in the service, and. He joined Sun Life in 1953, and we

00:56:42.930 - 00:56:51.720

met in August of 1954. It was just before I started my senior year at the University of Texas. Oh, okay.

00:56:51.720 - 00:57:09.000

My dad had given me his car, and so I had transportation and I didn't know anybody in Houston or very few. So if you were starting, want to start soliciting, who do you go see? There's 14 million people out here who do I go to see talk to.

00:57:09.000 - 00:57:24.960

So that was I had to learn my trade. And anyway, getting back to this meeting, Norman Ross was, uh, introduced me to Joan through the family that he knew, the Krupp's.

00:57:26.960 - 00:57:40.530

So I went over to meet them, and I told her mother liked me because I ate all of her cookies, and I. And I asked Joan for a date for to go on a picnic date. Well, for. No, first we went.

00:57:40.530 - 00:57:51.360

You invited me to go dancing. Okay, tell him about that. Well, you had we went, but you had had a little bit of an accident. I'll tell you. She jumping ahead of the story.

00:57:52.170 - 00:58:00.600

Oh. I asked Joan for a date, like on a It was for Saturday night. Okay, so that morning.

00:58:02.100 - 00:58:17.960

I had already had some money, and I bought a ten acre piece of land on the south side of Houston that I was paying for by the month, and I had a fellow who was paying me a few bucks to to. Let.

00:58:18.170 - 00:58:33.950

It was ten acres of land, no buildings or anything to let him put his horse and a pony on that tract of land. So that that morning, this is Saturday morning, I guess,

00:58:34.520 - 00:58:45.950

I went out there and the the guy who owned the ponies was there and says, Katz, will you do me a favor? He says, I want to run my horse, give him some exercise. He's just out here by himself and that pony.

00:58:47.240 - 00:59:00.860

But the pony won't leave the horse alone. Would you mind riding the pony while I ride the horse? I said fine, well, so he suits up at the pony. Had a pony saddle on it.

00:59:01.040 - 00:59:15.080

Okay, so my feet are about that far down below the stirrups. So when you ride a horse, you you can guide with the stirrups. You ever ride a horse?

00:59:15.710 - 00:59:26.660

It's been a long time. Okay. Anyway. I'm on this pony holding the pony with by the reins. And this horse, he's on this horse.

00:59:26.660 - 00:59:41.840

This horse starts running and this pony takes off, and I'm. I'm holding on because I can't put my feet down. I mean, I'm lower than the stirrups and I'm trying to hold them. Well, anyway, I'm trying, I'm trying to detach the two of them.

00:59:41.840 - 00:59:49.430

So I'm pulling the reins to the right. I want the pony to go this way. Pony decides to go that way. The pony went that way and I went this way.

00:59:49.430 - 01:00:02.390

So I fell off the pony and bunged up my knee. And I had asked Joan to go dancing with me that night. I could hardly walk. I called her up.

01:00:02.390 - 01:00:11.120

I can't, I can't take you. A pony injury. So subsequently I asked her to go on a picnic.

01:00:11.120 - 01:00:20.720

I think the next day, was it not? There was a picnic going on. I've forgotten who sponsored the picnic. And I said, let's go on this picnic.

01:00:22.670 - 01:00:36.970

And we go out and have a have a good time. And I'm driving her home rather late at night. But it wasn't late at night because I had a date with someone else.

01:00:37.810 - 01:00:50.800

That's right. So she had another date. So I was there and I keep postponing getting her in the car. I knew she had this date, and so I'm getting I get in the car and I'm driving her. It's about 5:00 in the afternoon.

01:00:50.800 - 01:01:02.190

And when we got there. The date's car was already in the front. I don't think you knew him either, did you? It was a first date.

01:01:02.190 - 01:01:13.140

First date. And so I wanted to thank her for spending the day. We had a good time on that picnic. I went. There was a drugstore about two blocks away. I drive to the drugstore.

01:01:13.170 - 01:01:29.220

I put my nickel or dime in the phone box because no phones. At that time. I called her mother and told her I had a good time. And, uh. I think you just wanted to find out about my date being there, that my date was already

01:01:29.220 - 01:01:43.890

there. So, anyway, I asked her for another date, and she can probably give you the details better than I, but how many days did we have before I said, I walked out and says, Will you marry me?

01:01:43.920 - 01:01:54.630

Two weeks later. Wow. I was just getting ready to go back, as I said, for my senior year yet and had never had met his parents or anything,

01:01:55.560 - 01:02:14.850

but we decided we would date exclusively, you know, that we would continue dating and, um, but I couldn't make a decision that quickly. And my father, when he talked to my father about my marrying him, told him he wanted me to finish college, and he said, oh,

01:02:14.850 - 01:02:28.470

yes, I finished and I definitely want her to finish, he said, but I want her to finish where she started. And so, um, that was the plan was for me to go back and finish at UT and then get married after that.

01:02:28.470 - 01:02:41.910

So we ended up get commuting during that, that semester and during the year. And then we got married, uh, the week after my graduation.

01:02:41.910 - 01:02:52.650

Oh, wow. What year was that? 1955. Wow. And where did you all get married? We were married at the Alabama Catering by Rabbi

01:02:53.670 - 01:03:06.270

Kahn, Robert Kahn. From Temple Emanuel. But we were married in, since I mentioned we did not belong to a synagogue, so we were married in many people got married in this

01:03:06.270 - 01:03:16.770

Alabama catering. That was what it was called. It must have been on Alabama Street because that's the only connection, uh, that I knew of.

01:03:16.770 - 01:03:33.000

I didn't I really didn't know my mother, frankly. My mother did most of the arranging for the, uh, for the wedding because I was, uh, I was, as I said, a senior in school. So I was spending my time on my making sure I finished school.

01:03:33.210 - 01:03:47.430

Sure. Do you remember anything about your wedding day? Any funny stories or, well, things that happened? Well, I had, uh, in the six months while we were just. She was finishing her last year.

01:03:47.580 - 01:04:05.730

I saved a little bit of money, and I had a special ticket that I bought that included airfare, home, hotel rooms for three for 2 or 3 nights. And, uh, and it was a package. So I remember that after we got married, we got on this plane and

01:04:05.730 - 01:04:19.650

flew to. That was our honeymoon to go to, to Miami. But before that, the the night before, uh, we got married, the he was really concerned his brother was going to do

01:04:19.650 - 01:04:38.610

something with the car to put cans or which, you know, to make it known that just married and, uh, he was concerned about that. And we had rented Larry, having been in the service, was qualified to get a loan for a new home for

01:04:39.600 - 01:04:52.590

with the GI Bill. And so we actually while we were engaged during that whole long period, we ended up going to his parents for Thanksgiving.

01:04:52.590 - 01:05:08.220

And I met them and we that's when we set the date. But we, um, uh, ended up because he had the, the GI Bill. We decided we didn't want to spend money on an apartment.

01:05:08.220 - 01:05:24.300

We would rather put it into a home. And, uh, we started looking and again, a lot of the young Jewish marrieds lived in the southeast section of town. But we were driving on Post Oak one day when we saw the

01:05:24.300 - 01:05:33.150

banners out for a parade of homes that was to become Meyerland. Wow. And we ended up probably.

01:05:33.150 - 01:05:47.360

One of the first few houses. That were built. They had a parade of homes that was on, I guess, Jackwood Street in Meyerland. And but we we bought a lot.

01:05:47.780 - 01:06:00.740

Uh, you and talked with the contractor on Darnell Street in the very first in the section of Meyerland. That was, um. And again, it was 19.

01:06:01.100 - 01:06:13.610

Uh, 1954. And I remember we would go and just drive and sit in front of the lot. Uh, on some occasion when we were home, when I was home from school.

01:06:13.610 - 01:06:26.420

Applebaum was a close friend. But he didn't design that house. No, he designed because we lived in we the house we built was, uh, just a contractor who actually probably had that lot.

01:06:26.420 - 01:06:36.830

And he built it for us. He built it for you. So what what appealed to you about Meyerland at that at that time? Well, it was it was just so new.

01:06:37.430 - 01:06:44.210

Probably fifth or sixth house being built. I mean, we just there were few houses. They had the parade of homes there. The parade of homes.

01:06:44.210 - 01:06:53.540

As a matter of fact, I have read since I didn't know it at the time that Richard Nixon cut the. Yes. That's right. Nixon was there.

01:06:53.540 - 01:07:05.660

He cut the ribbons for, uh. Well, we had how long have we been married? Before? When we went to Meyerland? Oh, no. We got married in in June of 55, and we

01:07:05.870 - 01:07:16.550

moved into the house at the end of August. So we lived. We rented a furnished efficiency for just those first three while the house was completed.

01:07:16.550 - 01:07:33.650

And, and we, um, we moved in actually in probably September of 1955 to Meyerland. And she got impregnated pretty quickly after that. I was teaching at first I well, uh, I my, my degree was in

01:07:33.650 - 01:07:52.220

sociology, but he convinced me that I would not he did not think I would be a very, uh, a effective social worker. So he thought I should take additional courses in education. And I did and got a teaching certificate and did my practice

01:07:52.220 - 01:08:09.470

teaching in Austin. And then we, I did substitute teaching, uh, when we were first married and, uh, and, but this was before this was after we moved into the house because, well, during the,

01:08:09.470 - 01:08:25.490

during those early the first three months, we were just, uh, uh, newlyweds waiting for the for that house to be completed. Well, then we got get the house completed, and, uh, soon thereafter, Joan was pregnant.

01:08:25.610 - 01:08:40.940

And, um. The normal. We have moved into the house. Normally she would give me my breakfast prepared and I'd walk out the door from the kitchen, went into the garage.

01:08:41.540 - 01:08:57.630

It was an attached garage and I would raise the raise the garage door, get in the car and back out and I'm on my way. Well, this particular morning. She gives me my breakfast and she she comes in and she's wearing, I

01:08:57.630 - 01:09:08.580

think, a sheer negligee with panties on. But that's what. I was pregnant. And she was heavily pregnant at this point, and there were just 2 or 3 houses that people

01:09:08.580 - 01:09:23.310

were living in, but a few were being built, so not very many people around. And I did go my normal routine. She'd sit in the kitchen and so she goes out into the, into the

01:09:23.310 - 01:09:38.280

garage with attached washer and dryer is there. And I finished my breakfast. I walk out, she's in the washer dryer, I get my car, I pull out and take off. Now then what I didn't remember is my normal routine was she's

01:09:38.280 - 01:09:50.370

in the house. I locked the door behind me when I go in. I, I was, uh, I was in my car on my way to downtown. She can't get back into the house.

01:09:50.370 - 01:10:00.270

She's locked out, and she's in her... Locked out. And the only thing she could think of, there was one house maybe 100 yards behind us. Huh?

01:10:00.990 - 01:10:12.330

It was behind the. It was behind us in our behind the garage. And there was another house where the people were nailing the shingles on a new house going up. She's in the sheer negligee and she's running to the one house

01:10:12.780 - 01:10:21.720

got a tenant in. And she gives me holy hell when she gets me on the phone after that. Oh my God. But, uh, I have the house.

01:10:21.720 - 01:10:32.130

It was, uh, a nurse was living there. I had no idea who was living there. I just ran to a door and she thought I was having. I was ready to have the baby.

01:10:32.130 - 01:10:41.520

But she helped me call him, so just go back home. Just an interlude. Yeah. Wow. That's quite, quite something.

01:10:41.520 - 01:10:58.770

So I mean, yeah. So you you were there early pioneers in Meyerland. It was a brand-new neighborhood, a lot of empty lots. Where the Meyerland, uh, shopping center later became there were cows. There were just cows lowing when my father, when they come

01:10:58.770 - 01:11:08.760

to say, let's go to the wilderness to visit the children, they're probably out way out, Post Oak. There was really nothing else there. Yeah. From where your parents lived.

01:11:08.760 - 01:11:16.380

I mean, how did they even get there? Oh, they drove. They were right. But, I mean, you know, there's no there's no freeways. Oh, no freeway.

01:11:16.380 - 01:11:28.560

It was a long haul for them to do that. But that was the beginning of a marriage. Yeah. Tell me about, um, tell me about how you became involved at Brith shalom.

01:11:30.270 - 01:11:44.340

Well, uh. We had several friends that were. Well, we, uh, I was teaching when I was substitute teaching, he actually knew someone, uh, that he was working with,

01:11:44.520 - 01:11:53.130

uh, who belonged to Brith Shalom. So he had had enough. There was no Brith shalom in existence. And. No. But you knew, uh, Don.

01:11:53.130 - 01:12:02.970

Uh, Dan, um, I've forgotten his name with you. Dan Rosenthal. Dan Rosenthal. And he had talked to you about Brith Shalom, but I was-

01:12:02.970 - 01:12:19.020

They were forming a new synagogue. And I was teaching school, and one of my students mentioned that it was, I was substituting, and mentioned that he was going to synagogue that night in the afternoon before I was when school was

01:12:19.020 - 01:12:31.350

out. And I said, oh, really? What, uh, what synagogue do you go to? And he said, B'rith Shalom. And they were meeting in a house on Bellefontaine at that

01:12:31.350 - 01:12:45.060

time. And I said, oh, my husband and I have talked about going to services there. Well, he was incredulous because he didn't know that. He didn't know that Katz obviously didn't think of it as being a Jewish name.

01:12:45.060 - 01:13:00.570

But he said, oh, are you Jewish? And that it was a Friday night, and we did go to Brith Shalom that night. And then Brith Shalom had their anniversary, um, dance at Westwood Country Club.

01:13:00.570 - 01:13:16.710

And Larry and I went and that's when we joined. It was, uh, like in August before we had our first child in December of 1956. Uh huh. And at that time, I mean, all the synagogues were still were still

01:13:16.710 - 01:13:25.350

over in, in the third Ward in the McGregor area. Yeah. But yes. Uh, uh, Beth Yeshurun, I think, was on Southmore, at the

01:13:25.350 - 01:13:40.620

time. I did have some friends who I'd grown up with who belonged to what became UOS. Uh, they lived right across the street. And during my high school years, I would spend the night with some friends and and

01:13:40.620 - 01:13:48.780

and walk, um, and be right across the street from the synagogue there. Oh, from Adath Emeth? Yes.

01:13:48.780 - 01:13:53.420

When it was on Cleaver? Yes. Oh, okay. But we had no building.

01:13:53.420 - 01:14:05.840

We bought that old Baptist church, I think it was. Oh no, before that we lived. We were in the house on Bellefontaine. And then we built that small white building in near the

01:14:05.840 - 01:14:22.400

railroad tracks on the west side of the railroad tracks, and that was the, um, Brith Shalom had not moved into that house. And but that was that anniversary was like the impetus for getting that, uh, getting that started.

01:14:22.400 - 01:14:35.510

And and Brith Shalom was a I mean, it was, it was created to kind of serve the Jewish families living on the southwest side of town. Exactly. Well, Beth Yeshurun was already there. No, no.

01:14:35.510 - 01:14:40.730

Oh, no. Beth Yeshurun. No. They were still on, I think. Was that. Yeah. Maybe you're right.

01:14:40.730 - 01:14:54.410

They were. They were still on Southmore until 60, until 62. And and so, uh, I remember that because I remember when they built on 62 and I remember when they, when they opened, because I

01:14:54.410 - 01:15:10.850

was considering sending one of my, my second child to go to Beth El there to start in the three day nursery. Um, it ended up he was not really ready and, uh, but but I do remember that was exactly when, uh,

01:15:11.330 - 01:15:20.660

when, of course, he was born in 59, but that was when. Rabbi Sky, the first. Rabbi Sky was the first. Well, he was the first rabbi that was hired.

01:15:20.660 - 01:15:38.540

Originally it was Rabbi Skolnick who had been the assistant rabbi at Beth Yeshurun. And a lot of the younger members of of Beth Yeshurun, whose families had belonged to Beth Yeshurun for a long, long time,

01:15:38.840 - 01:15:47.660

uh, that's who became the the members of of Brith shalom. The Robinsons, the the. Wieners. Wieners, the Merwins.

01:15:47.660 - 01:16:05.060

They had they had all been very active at Beth Yeshurun, but they were living they had were living or moving to the southwest on the southwest side. And they didn't they didn't really want to be driving to go over to

01:16:05.060 - 01:16:20.750

the southeast side to take their kids to Hebrew school. Right, yeah, it's a long it's a long drive. It's a schlep. Tell me about Rabbi Moshe Cahana. Oh, I was actually I was president of the sisterhood with with rabbi while

01:16:20.750 - 01:16:34.460

rabbi with Rabbi Cahana. Uh, we became very close friends. I remember I have a picture taken at the, um, we have a picture in our bedroom from when, um, Rabbi and Alice came to

01:16:34.640 - 01:16:53.420

interview, uh, that weekend, and it was a Sunday, and he was, uh, he and Alice and, um, that also was 1959 when they, uh, when they came to, uh, to Brith Shalom. And he was, um,

01:16:54.110 - 01:17:12.260

just a very quiet, soft spoken, but very forceful, dynamic man. Soft spoken, but very deep. And, uh, um, services were different. Um, you didn't necessarily feel that young children were welcome

01:17:12.260 - 01:17:25.850

at the services there. It was really more for the older people. I remember later on thinking when in subsequent years, when I'd see kids running down the aisle to go up to the bimah, I think, oh, Rabbi Cahana would

01:17:25.850 - 01:17:34.280

not have been too happy with that. Uh. That that's a good example of what I do. I have a calling.

01:17:34.280 - 01:17:50.200

I feel what I do, uh. People. Everybody's going to die sooner or later. And I learned that if you die and you don't leave your family any money, they're in trouble.

01:17:50.980 - 01:18:09.850

So early on, anybody I saw, I talked to her and said, let me talk to you about, Rabbi Cahana was one of my clients, and he didn't live long after I sold him a life insurance policy, which was probably not more than $10,000, but it paid for his funeral and what have you.

01:18:09.850 - 01:18:29.170

So I realized and have realized ever since, that what I do has a large bearing on what happens to a family later on in life. So he was one of my clients, and I felt I did a mitzvah in having taken care of a little bit of his family's

01:18:29.590 - 01:18:41.170

problems following his death. But we were pretty close to Rabbi. His youngest daughter was born the same summer that our youngest son was born. Rena.

01:18:41.740 - 01:19:00.280

Rena was. And of course, the boys were, um, were, uh. Well, Ronnie was older and he was older than our children, but Michael was the same age as our oldest son. So we were all, um.

01:19:00.670 - 01:19:06.490

We had a close group of friends. All went to Brith Shalom. It was like a second family. We had.

01:19:06.910 - 01:19:21.940

It really was like extended, extended family of Brith shalom. We shared so many. We. When, if when there was a bar mitzvah, uh, one couple would have the, uh, Friday night dinner.

01:19:21.940 - 01:19:35.230

One would have the, uh, would. I mean, we were all participants and shared, would bake. We'd we at that time, we baked in the synagogue even before in the the first building.

01:19:36.100 - 01:19:51.370

I still remember when we had a, it snowed in Houston, um, on and we were there preparing the dinner for the Friday night, uh, preparing for Friday night and for Shabbos.

01:19:51.370 - 01:20:09.700

And I just remember being in the kitchen, the camaraderie of the women. It was a wonderful, wonderful experience. Yeah. Let me ask you about, you know, Rabbi Cahana is probably best remembered as being an outspoken supporter of, you know, civil rights for

01:20:09.700 - 01:20:18.190

African Americans. And he, you know, he went to Alabama, he marched with. Marched in Selma. With Dr. King. I mean, do you remember those days and what that was like?

01:20:18.220 - 01:20:35.320

Yes, I do, and I remember there were those among the congregation who didn't know that it was, they might not have felt it was the right thing to do. But I think over by and large, most of the people were very proud

01:20:35.320 - 01:20:49.540

of the fact that he took the stand that he did and was so supportive and went to Alabama and rallied people. He also was he was the one who started the holiday of Yom Yerushalayim.

01:20:49.960 - 01:21:02.410

Mhm. Um, he was he was just as I said, he was soft spoken, but he was dynamic. He got a lot of things accomplished and made other people want to do the right thing.

01:21:02.410 - 01:21:15.790

He was a dedicated father. He had a dysfunctional child and he took so much care for her. In later years, after he became ill and was no longer the rabbi,

01:21:15.790 - 01:21:31.890

he really took care of Rena and helped her develop. She developed far beyond what many people thought would be her capability. We were only, maybe, uh, 5 or 6 blocks away from where he lived in Meyerland.

01:21:31.890 - 01:21:40.860

We lived in Meyerland. Yeah, we were we were all we were very close. We shared all the special occasions together. Wonderful. Wow.

01:21:40.860 - 01:21:48.930

Really great. A lot of mitzvahs in that period of time. Yeah, yeah, it's good memories. So you said your first house in Meyerland was on Darnell?

01:21:48.930 - 01:21:58.410

Was on Darnell Street, and. And then when. Do you remember the number? 5127. And we were, uh.

01:21:59.370 - 01:22:11.820

Um, but we had four children there, and I remember we were really pushing the walls. We had a daughter and three sons. Uh, they were we we had the.

01:22:11.820 - 01:22:27.240

I've forgotten what year the Meyerland club opened, but my kids could ride there at that time, too it was fairly safe. They could ride their bikes to go to the Meyerland club. And that was also a very big social for the Jewish

01:22:27.660 - 01:22:39.750

families to meet. The men would play, the Jewish guys would would be playing volleyball there at the Meyerland Center while the women were talking and watching the children in the pool.

01:22:40.170 - 01:22:55.800

But, um, uh, that was a big social part of, uh, of living in Meyerland was when the Meyerland club was built. And they developed I had a swim team. Um, it was a it was a great.

01:22:55.800 - 01:23:04.170

I remember entertaining some of the people from Larry's office by going to the Meyerland. The Meyerland club. Did you also belong to the JCC?

01:23:04.740 - 01:23:14.730

Oh, we belonged. I belonged to the JCC when I was a teenager. Oh, gosh. When the JCC was, uh, uh, also meeting in

01:23:14.730 - 01:23:30.270

the southwest, I mean, in the southeast part of the city before it moved to Hermann Drive. I used to go and play ping pong and and and be active. I never belonged to BBG, but I did go and participate

01:23:30.990 - 01:23:42.900

in many of the, uh, I went to a lot of the AZA and BBG meetings. For me, JCC provided a means of playing basketball and making friends there. Played there all the time.

01:23:44.490 - 01:23:54.090

Yeah, sure. No. That's great. Uh, okay. Uh, do you want to tell us a little bit about about the rest of your family, children

01:23:54.090 - 01:24:06.990

and grandchildren? Well, uh, I mentioned our daughter, and we she was born in 56, but I was going to say that when we, when we were, had outgrown our home.

01:24:06.990 - 01:24:18.270

Oh, yes. We wanted to stay. We liked the Lovett Elementary School, and and Johnson Junior High had been built, uh, uh, Bellaire High School.

01:24:18.270 - 01:24:32.880

And we really liked the neighborhood. But we were thinking at that time, a lot of people were moving to the memorial area, and we looked there. I do remember my probably one and

01:24:32.880 - 01:24:51.300

only anti-Semitic experience was when we went to look for a home or went to look to, to think about maybe moving out of Meyerland and into this section that was a new section that was being developed.

01:24:51.300 - 01:25:07.290

And right now I can't remember the name of the of the section, but I do remember meeting with the contractor, senior contractor, and telling him where we lived. And, um, he said that if we wanted, he could build a house in that

01:25:07.290 - 01:25:23.190

area, but that he could not build in Meyerland because I told him that's where we lived and where we were also considering maybe staying, because he didn't build for Jews. Larry was had laryngitis that weekend.

01:25:23.190 - 01:25:32.160

He was in the car. I was talking to this. I almost I don't know how I made myself get back. I was so shocked.

01:25:32.160 - 01:25:46.680

I just I did not refute it, I didn't I just and if I'm my memory serves me correctly, at that time he was president of the Houston Home Builders Association. Oh my God.

01:25:47.400 - 01:25:58.890

Wow. So that was probably, as I said, growing up with mostly non-Jewish people and never had any kind of an experience like that.

01:25:58.890 - 01:26:17.850

And when he said that it was just so and it it made me participate, later I was asked to participate in an organization called the Panel of American Women, uh, that was comprised of we had Jewish women, um, uh,

01:26:18.780 - 01:26:35.660

Christian women, Catholic women, black women, who we were all Americans. And the we would go to speak in schools or to civic organizations and talk about our experiences with

01:26:35.660 - 01:26:51.320

either anti-racist or anti, uh, Catholic or anti-Semitic. And we would discuss that to make people aware of how harmful that can be.

01:26:52.520 - 01:27:00.170

Yeah, that's really important work, especially to, you know, compare experiences of different groups and have them. And and to realize Talk to each.

01:27:00.170 - 01:27:06.920

That it wasn't only anti-Semitic. There were a lot of people who were anti-Catholic. Oh, yeah, that's right. It was.

01:27:06.920 - 01:27:22.880

We all had to tell tell what our experience had been. And my experience with the contractor was one of the was probably the main thing that I had to, had to relate. So you stayed in Meyerland, you built a new house.

01:27:23.840 - 01:27:41.750

We found our- that house. There were only two lots available in, in, in the section that was north of Brays Bayou. And we and because we liked Lovett Elementary School so much, which, by the way, was named for the first president of Rice University,

01:27:41.930 - 01:27:55.250

Odell Lovett. So we, um, I went to talk before school started. Uh, before my children started, I went to meet with the principal and talked to, uh, to her.

01:27:55.250 - 01:28:12.740

And because my kids had gone to, uh, to a nursery school, my daughter was reading and I thought perhaps she should didn't know what grade, but it was really a very family oriented, lovely neighborhood.

01:28:12.740 - 01:28:29.540

They everybody cared for everybody. I was also active in the PTA there later, but, um, we so we wanted to stay at Lovett School instead of going to the new, uh, area, which was being really being developed where on the south

01:28:29.540 - 01:28:43.220

side of the bayou and where most of our friends were moving, or many of our friends were moving. And so we stayed. Um, we found this lot in section five on Braes Valley,

01:28:43.220 - 01:28:59.420

which was one block north of North Braeswood, and we built a home. And that's what Larry was alluding to. One of our friends who had also belonged to Brith Shalom at that time was Hai Applebaum. Um, and he had never, he graduated

01:29:00.020 - 01:29:13.460

from Rice. He was a fencer at Rice and got his degree in architecture at Rice. And he, uh, had never designed a traditional home.

01:29:13.460 - 01:29:25.940

He did mostly contemporary, but he, uh, agreed or said he would do our home. And our builder was another, another friend from Brith Shalom was Al Friedkin.

01:29:26.090 - 01:29:41.510

So Al Friedkin was the contractor, and Hai Appelbaum with that house on Braes Valley. Wow. And how long did you did you live in that Brays Valley house? We lived in that house from 1964 till

01:29:41.510 - 01:29:53.090

19 till 2015. Oh my gosh. For when the, uh, the flood, when the Memorial Day flood in May of 2015.

01:29:53.090 - 01:30:09.140

Oh my gosh. So our children grew up there, all four children and, um, all went to Lovett and Johnston and Bellaire High School and uh, um, I felt really got got

01:30:09.650 - 01:30:21.890

very well, got a good education at those schools. Had your house ever flooded before 2015? No, we had never. We I had watched when we'd had heavy rains before as the water

01:30:21.890 - 01:30:34.940

was encroaching, but we'd never had any water come near our porch. And until until 2015. Uh, and now you live in the in the Greenway Plaza area? I mean, do you miss Meyerland?

01:30:34.970 - 01:30:47.780

Do you go back ever to visit the neighborhood? Believe it or not, I still work out. I still have a trainer and work out at the JCC. So, um, I when you talk about my affiliation with the

01:30:47.780 - 01:31:05.480

JCC, it is a very, uh, encompassing. But, uh, I, um, uh, I still go back. I find it a little bit depressing, but we we planted a tree right there on the esplanade of the Rice

01:31:06.230 - 01:31:25.280

Avenue. Um, um, when my granddaughter was born, we actually planted. He he Larry planted it himself, planted a tree when my first granddaughter was born in 1991, and she was born in March, and I haven't figured out why her

01:31:25.280 - 01:31:44.080

tree made it, but the ones that he planted for our grandsons or her her three siblings were never made it because the the people maintaining the landscaping there must have just

01:31:44.080 - 01:31:53.050

uprooted. When they were born, just cut, cut it down. But but Marissa's tree is still there and he goes back to see Marissa's tree.

01:31:53.080 - 01:32:02.260

Do you? Wow. The neighborhood must look completely different now with houses, you know. Oh, it really is. 20ft in the air.

01:32:02.260 - 01:32:14.440

And, you know. It was just amazing to me, though, that our first house was also torn down and a two-story house was put there long before the flooding, long before raising.

01:32:14.830 - 01:32:30.850

I never knew why they tore that house. We sold that house so quickly with the furnishings and and just and went practically in a pickup truck to take our, our to move to the new place.

01:32:30.850 - 01:32:42.100

Oh, wow. So we didn't have to have movers. We just drove down down Rice Avenue, over to Jay, over to, uh, um, to Jason, to Endicott and Endicott

01:32:43.150 - 01:32:49.900

dead ended into our house. Oh, okay. Sure, sure. Very good.

01:32:50.140 - 01:32:57.370

I've really enjoyed speaking with you all. This has been so fun for me. I hope you've I hope you've enjoyed it. I want to ask. Thank you for doing.

01:32:58.180 - 01:33:11.140

What you're doing is just We- gives us a chance to tell you about it. But tell me more about what you're doing. Well, I will, but let's let's finish this first

01:33:11.410 - 01:33:23.500

and then I'll tell you. So, um, maybe as a final question, because you both lived now in Houston, you know, for decades and raised children and grandchildren.

01:33:23.500 - 01:33:37.030

I was going to ask you if you wanted to just talk about your kids and grand grandchildren for a minute. I definitely my, uh, youngest son married. We went we were on the first mission to Israel,

01:33:37.030 - 01:33:52.480

um, and we took, our older children were in college, so we took our two younger sons when we went on that mission. And our youngest son met his his wife was from Brooklyn, New York.

01:33:52.510 - 01:34:08.170

I mean, he met a young woman from Brooklyn, New York, who was there with her high school friends, um, just to go visit Israel. They had family, these girls from Brooklyn. And they happen to be staying in the same hotel where we

01:34:08.170 - 01:34:22.330

were with the mission. And the guys and the my sons met the girls, and it seemed funny to me after that, we had very well planned tours where we were going, where we were going to be.

01:34:22.330 - 01:34:40.330

But it seemed to me every time we landed someplace, I'd see the girls at the same place where our itinerary had taken us. But, um, they they dated long distance for a while, and then they married in 1998, 1998.

01:34:40.330 - 01:34:54.040

And, um, um, our oldest granddaughter was born in 1991, followed by her brother in 1994. Laurence is Marissa Laurence, then Albert was only

01:34:54.400 - 01:35:13.180

16 months later and and Zach and they moved to um, the area near UOS because my my daughter in law was Orthodox, and although my son was brought up conservative, he really was

01:35:13.180 - 01:35:27.910

probably the most, um, observant of any of of my other children. But anyway, they hit it off and married and they were they bought a home there on the block near

01:35:28.390 - 01:35:45.250

UOS. Their home flooded. They lived with us while they were getting the house ready. But after the children were born, their home flooded in 2001 with the Tropical Storm

01:35:45.250 - 01:36:06.250

Allison. And so they moved in with us. And so my son and daughter in law and at that time, four grandchildren lived with us for almost, um, um, for over two years while they were, um, building the house where

01:36:06.250 - 01:36:19.090

they and that's on that same lot. They had it totally demolished that house and then built up, built up, built it up. Sure. But so that was a fabulous experience, uh, having

01:36:19.570 - 01:36:33.610

them live with us. Three generations and one one house. Yes. It was it was the most beautiful thing for me. To have my grandchildren get up, to go, to be going to school, and my husband

01:36:33.610 - 01:36:50.170

would be sitting and reading his newspaper in the chair, and they'd be on his lap before leaving for school. It was a much a very bonding experience. The meantime, my older son, who was fairly active in the

01:36:50.200 - 01:37:08.980

he graduated from Tulane University and then went to my my other three children, my older, my daughter and, and, um, and two of my sons went to the University of Texas, as I did. But my oldest son wanted a small school, and he instead of

01:37:08.980 - 01:37:20.200

going to Rice, where he had been accepted, he decided to go to Tulane and then came to go to Baylor or to Baylor College of Medicine. Oh very good.

01:37:20.200 - 01:37:33.430

And but he waited until after he was through with all of his training and everything. And though he led the mission to singles mission, uh, to Israel also and worked in the community.

01:37:33.430 - 01:37:48.310

Yeah. Um, with and met his wife on one of those trips. She was working in Chicago, but she her family had immigrated from Cuba, um, in early 1960s.

01:37:48.310 - 01:38:02.680

Oh, wow. She was born like three days after her parents arrived from Cuba with just the clothes on their back and one suitcase. And my,

01:38:02.680 - 01:38:16.510

my, uh, other daughter in law's family had immigrated from Turkey to Brooklyn, so both of my daughter in laws were first generation American also. Wow. Wonderful.

01:38:17.260 - 01:38:33.910

All right. Is there anything else you want to add? Any kind of concluding thoughts or statements about, you know. I do want to say that, uh, my, my, this oldest son married and had, uh, three boys and we just just this spring, we attended

01:38:34.390 - 01:38:52.300

the college graduation of all of them, uh, the, uh, the old, the children, my youngest child graduated from Beren Academy and elected to emigrate to Israel. So we have three grandsons living in Israel.

01:38:52.300 - 01:39:04.210

Wow. Uh, and our, our, uh, second grandson there married a girl that he grew up with also who went to Beren Academy.

01:39:04.210 - 01:39:16.060

Oh, lovely. And they married in 2017, and now they're the parents of our two great grandchildren there. Who visited us very recently in July, but um,

01:39:17.050 - 01:39:37.840

our older grand, uh, our other grandchildren finished university at, um, in Nashville at, uh, at, um, Vanderbilt, Vanderbilt and, and uh, then our youngest grandson, uh, of that family, uh, graduated from Princeton in May.

01:39:37.840 - 01:39:57.520

And we still have one grandson who's a junior at Beren Academy. Also of interest, maybe, the grandson who is the father of the great grandchildren, played on the basketball team, two of the of the they all played basketball at Beren.

01:39:57.790 - 01:40:11.410

Went to tournaments all over. We would go to to watch them, uh, play. But they were he was part of the team that refused to play on Shabbat.

01:40:11.410 - 01:40:26.290

Oh yes, They were in the final. We have the book that tells all about the, uh, that whole experience of how they were in the finals, and then they almost had to forfeit the game because it was supposed to be played on

01:40:26.290 - 01:40:43.840

Shabbat. Yeah, that was quite it was worldwide. And we they, they had from from Australia, from so many parts of the world, they received commendation for having, um, done what they believed to be right.

01:40:44.380 - 01:40:54.730

Yeah. That's a really important story. And that was what was the name of your grandson who was on that team? Albert Katz and is actually Zach was a freshman on that team that

01:40:54.760 - 01:41:09.220

year too. Uh, and uh, but Albert was on, on the team that, uh, that didn't win the championship, but they, they came very close. And we were we were there in Fort Worth to watch them play. Yeah, that's quite something.

01:41:09.220 - 01:41:21.640

Well. Another little connection is that when the Rice won the College World Series of, um, baseball, we had a chance to see and be.

01:41:21.640 - 01:41:33.280

And we, uh, Doctor Lieberman was there, and we established a little bit of a personal relationship because he didn't have a car and we were driving him all around the campus. Oh no kidding.

01:41:33.280 - 01:41:48.340

When, uh, we actually went to three College World Series, we my oldest son, the physician, was given tickets for the playoffs. The one year at Rice.

01:41:48.340 - 01:42:00.640

And they he offered they were offered tickets to him, a patient. And he said, I'm not able to go, but I know somebody who will really want to go. And so bless you.

01:42:00.910 - 01:42:17.470

My, um, so we went to that series and, and after that we were hooked. We ended up buying season tickets. And uh, until this past year, until Covid, we've we've

01:42:17.470 - 01:42:26.380

gone to all the Rice. We went to all the football games too, but we went to all the Rice, uh, baseball games. Oh, wow.

01:42:26.590 - 01:42:35.830

First person we met, Ping was with us. Uh huh. At the same time when we were up. When we drove them around Omaha. But I haven't seen him for quite some time.

01:42:35.920 - 01:42:54.460

We haven't been since they built the new because the team hasn't hasn't made it. But I'm excited about this year because we have a former player who is. That's right, is a new coach, so maybe we'll see. Yeah, maybe we'll have we'll have better luck. And president LeBron, of course, is going to be leaving at the end of

01:42:54.460 - 01:43:05.350

the end of the spring. And we traveled with Rice. We went on a cruise with the former the president of Rice before that.

01:43:05.560 - 01:43:24.430

We really have had over the years um, stayed stayed within uh, a done not only through athletics but through the historical society and through a lot of the and Larry has established a relationship with, uh, with the Chabad Rabbi.

01:43:25.000 - 01:43:31.350

Oh, is that right? Who comes here every year and brings us our shmura. Matzah for Passover? Yes.

01:43:31.560 - 01:43:38.580

And and knows that I'm gluten free. So he brings me oat matzah, you know. Do you know him? Of course. Yeah, I know Rabbi Shmuley.

01:43:38.610 - 01:43:46.320

He's a nice guy. Yes, he is. A nice guy doing good work. Well, thank you both so much for the opportunity to chat, to remember, to reflect.

01:43:46.320 - 01:44:02.340

I'm sure that your children and grandchildren are going to enjoy listening to this. And, you know, folks will be able to learn about Jewish life and Waxahachie and Galveston and Houston. And there's so much here to, uh, enjoy listening to.

01:44:02.340 - 01:44:09.330

The early history of Meyerland, it's been a treat for me, and I hope you guys have enjoyed it as well. Let me ask you.