00:00:03.980 - 00:00:22.709

And this is the record and I say I appreciate you. Uh right, not Frederick. When I say I appreciate you very much for being here at this time of day. I ate breakfast before six at this point. And I I know the time of the day

00:00:22.719 - 00:00:50.180

is not convenient. I appreciate you staying around. Did you? I was getting it there. But I wanted to just very briefly just say to you what I'm thinking of it. What has happened is that if I sit in there, a communication breakdown have occur between, I'm

00:00:50.189 - 00:01:13.430

gonna be a short component. Best of many universities. These components are seven faculty and the administration are seized. Yeah, I do not believe. And I have asked that many questions, but this was an intentional breakdown. I believe it came about through a variety of those uh

00:01:13.699 - 00:01:35.589

predominant uh circumstances. And then nobody thought we got a lot of trouble, I believe extremely important for the greatness of this university that your name is connected with and my name is connected with I am that we reestablished that communication. I will tell you frankly that

00:01:35.599 - 00:01:56.750

I need to make that one of the bad way and the most important events or efforts. My administration, I believe it's very important that we talk to each other so we communicate with each other. The board of trustees is charged with a selection of the present.

00:01:58.459 - 00:02:18.589

When they approached me on the question, I asked if they make a contamination of the situation, think about it if they offered me this position, which is their legal position to do or my association with the school, I would accept, they had a meeting which reported

00:02:18.600 - 00:02:42.419

to me that this uh council that this consideration was made to me, my pain looking at it and then I had that infected. Are that far disappoint? I am pleased. I am glad that I did. So I think for the good will that you have for

00:02:42.429 - 00:03:10.149

the institution that you are connected to. All right, the important thing for us now is to re-establish these lines, to move all together and building is continuing the foundation of the goon. Thank you very much. Hm, big up, big up. Tell us your thing. Uh Last

00:03:10.449 - 00:03:39.979

time my time was gone. I can I can see the, well, are you like your appointment as president of this university as the first step and your pain in the Senate of the faculty committee? Uh Are you going to do this as your first step? I

00:03:39.990 - 00:03:55.360

will speak. I'll answer that with the a frankness that I hope I can always have with you. The legal representatives of the university have done their duty and asked me to accept this white one. I have accepted it in the times in which they have offered

00:03:55.369 - 00:04:16.390

it. I see no point that will help this school. We will help bring this situation together by any kind of reconsideration. The board is considers the matter of clothes. I think that all that will happen to the school continuation of that will be injured to our

00:04:16.399 - 00:04:35.000

university. The answer to your question therefore, is that I do not uh uh I will not under any circumstances that I can conceive of uh consider this reconsider this. And I do not believe that that in any way invalidates what I have just said about working

00:04:35.010 - 00:04:56.369

with you, then you will know those circumstances uh attend a general meeting which was suggested earlier today, a general meeting and the board of trustees and you to explain the position of the board of trustees and explain your position as to exactly how the he selected

00:04:56.380 - 00:05:13.359

you ignoring the student faculty committee, which they designated, which they, I believe said they were going to take the advice of you would in no way consider attending such a meeting because the matter is closed. Correct? I will be glad. Uh And with the student leadership

00:05:13.369 - 00:05:34.290

of the school in any kind of consideration, I do not. However, in my own mind think that they sort of um all the school students of the school or what not to be apt to produce a very great deal. Ok. Now, your idea. And I think

00:05:34.299 - 00:06:04.380

it is beyond any doubt that, uh, if you resign this will do great harm to the university. Are you positive in your own mind that if you do not resign, it will not do more harm to the university if you're like reporting a, he just getting

00:06:04.500 - 00:06:35.890

your, I'm sorry, how it's dire. Yeah. Yeah, I got it. Couple more words. All right. Just take two more questions. Two more questions. Yeah. The answer to that question is, is clear if I, if I felt that it would do harm, if I did not resign

00:06:37.579 - 00:06:51.450

the arm arm, I would take whatever action that would avoid doing the most harm. I've forgotten how you placed the question, but I would, I would avoid doing that, which I will, I will take whatever action in my mind will do the least harm to the

00:06:51.459 - 00:07:17.130

future of the university. Does that include, does that include reconsideration of the board? Does that include reconsideration of the board? I can hear, I can still hear you. And the treatment Doctor Mason. Is it not true that when you left this university 23 years ago, there

00:07:17.140 - 00:07:27.690

was not an understood agreement between you and the board or at least one member of the board that you, you're going to the University of Chattanooga was training for you to come back as president of Rice and that your return last year to give the to

00:07:27.700 - 00:07:48.690

to give the speech before the graduating class was part of this plan to institute you as president of Rice University. I'm concerned there's absolutely no basis in that. Not bad. No, the fact that the majority of the faculty and the students here disagree with you and

00:07:48.700 - 00:08:04.140

think that your resignation would be better for the university than your acceptance. Does that have any effect on your opinion? And on your decision, I have not had any regarding this. I have not had any direct evidence about the opinion of the majority of the faculty

00:08:04.149 - 00:08:36.460

on this. They might have that quiet. I don't imagine that he ever, ever if you are referring to the matter of the uh votes on the matter yesterday. Uh I was not present, I do not know what precisely what the motion was, but as I understand

00:08:36.469 - 00:08:58.020

it, the motion was to refer, refer the matter to the committee or to the uh faculty student committee for further reference to uh the committee to the trustee. I'm going to, I'm going to, I have some kids at the moment, two other groups to meet and

00:08:58.030 - 00:09:13.729

I'd like to close with another question. So who have I asked for the question? I'd like to ask you point blank. Um Whether or not do you consider the, the forming of a community? Mine, the first community mine that's ever been in Rice University virtually. Since

00:09:13.739 - 00:09:27.809

the beginning of its history, something which you can refute by going ahead and just accepting what the board of trustees has said, knowing that through the people out here and through people who are not here and through people who you will be in touch with later

00:09:27.820 - 00:09:42.195

on and who I know who have called you and who have expressed their opinions? Do you still believe that you can form a workable rapport with the students and the faculty of this university? And do, do you feel that if you do accept this uh appointment

00:09:42.205 - 00:10:03.570

as president, do you think that Rice University will ever be any university worth what it has been in the past? Under your uh I can't say denomination but under your reign as president, you, you have said, what will I do uh when a number of events

00:10:03.580 - 00:10:17.809

occur, when more evidence or more of this or that when that occurs, then I will no matter what I'm going to do as far as uh whether I think this will or will not, whether an administration of mine in the future can help the university. I

00:10:17.820 - 00:10:34.780

would say this depends upon uh no one president makes a university or doesn't it depends upon the this community of people, faculty and students administration. And uh I would hope that under my administration, this would these, these groups would work together but I cannot say that

00:10:34.789 - 00:11:00.789

it would or would not. I simply believe it possible. I have a motion, I read that I read the motion. I'd like to repeat the motion that 951 to 7, there's a proposal voted upon in the, in a group of the, the entire meeting of the

00:11:00.799 - 00:11:16.190

student body. It reads as follows. The students of Rice University vigorously protest and cannot accept the procedures used to select the new president. Specifically, the students objected the faculty student faculty committee which was requested by the board and duly elected was not consulted about the final

00:11:16.200 - 00:11:37.159

appointment. We emphatically request that this appointment be recon reconsidered after appropriate consultation with the student faculty presidential selection committee that is in almost in total, the same motion that was passed yesterday by the by the faculty meeting and its entirety. Also student vote was 951 to

00:11:37.169 - 00:11:59.150

7. The faculty vote was 91 to 57 on the third statement, 100 and 70 to 10 on this, we are at seven o'clock tonight with tape recordings of everything that happened today, the general meeting, the press conference and this plus any new information at 590 on

00:11:59.159 - 00:12:26.679

your dial at seven o'clock. Good day of our chairman, Mr Levitt had surgery last week and regret very much and he can't be with you. I take the very great play and welcoming you back to the last chapter on behalf of the all the board and

00:12:26.690 - 00:12:56.260

the right community and the Houston community. Where you have uh lived and university where you will become the fourth president and the first price alumni to achieve this high distinction. And I think that the support in considering the cannabis for this job was more hopeful uh

00:12:56.659 - 00:13:16.849

than anything else that we might find among our alumni or among our faculty, someone who asked to take this high office. I might also add that the board recognizes the its responsibility because no, no act by any board is more important than the act of appointing

00:13:16.859 - 00:13:40.510

the president of the right. So I welcome you here today. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Indeed, I want to say, although I feel that in this group and in this place, I hardly need to say how deeply honored I am by this personal

00:13:41.830 - 00:13:58.169

confidence by the board, this place and all of the biblical and other surroundings mean a great deal to me and always have in my life as they do to many of the faculty and many of the students and many of the trustees and deeply honored by

00:13:58.179 - 00:14:28.260

this appointment will fled here if I will pledge again to other company, pledged to you as a whole utmost in my ability and my understanding, I couldn't, my compassion is and each of the school and, and be grateful for the task, Doctor Masterson, the governor Mr

00:14:28.320 - 00:14:46.989

Allen was quite a warm, the one outside is not quite so warm. Did you comment on that, please. Well, I haven't. Uh I had a chance, I hope to go from here to the group outside and at least see them there. I think what has happened

00:14:47.000 - 00:15:18.130

is, is an unfortunate breakdown. Very much. The communication between two or more of the essential elements that make the university, the trustees, the faculty administration students, these all the components as we all know of a great schools, no school is great unless there's close communication and

00:15:18.140 - 00:15:44.630

understanding between them. Now, as I understand the situation through no particular planning or no particular fault of anyone, a lack of communication has existed, I don't exist between some of the components of this for this. I am very sorry because of a rice man and one

00:15:44.640 - 00:16:01.520

who feel strongly for the greatness of this school. So this to me, this means as much as the fact that I happen to be in the middle of this situation as one of the figures. It is my highest hope that this communication between these elements will

00:16:01.530 - 00:16:23.190

be restored. It will be one of the principal and immediate objectives of my administration to restore it. I hope that I can secure a broad base of those are goodwill. Those of high hopes for this school to to restore this communication that will continue to rise

00:16:23.200 - 00:16:44.690

traditional community. This lack of communication with one professor this morning at the meeting called the lack of dialogue. It seen as a very serious one depend on what specific steps are you considering? And hope for that have to return to Chattanooga, take up. Who is there?

00:16:44.700 - 00:17:03.559

That I will have a chance to discuss some of the matters which are in the minds of several of these components of the faculty committee. For example, I may meet informally with some or all of them. I hope to meet with student leaders, talk to them

00:17:04.569 - 00:17:27.949

uh and to try in, in this way to begin the re-establish, at least from my point of view of the communication, Dr Mason, your specialty was early 19th century American. Can you draw any parallels from that? Uh this will apply to the unrest at the heart?

00:17:29.699 - 00:17:52.430

That's the kind I like to have. But I kinda like the answer only in this sense that I think our society as a democratic society is in a constant re examination of its institutions and its divisions in the early 19th century America was in such a,

00:17:53.319 - 00:18:14.939

a re examination of its institutions which were largely colonial, inherited and uh traditional uh out of that team. Uh something more nearly American than existed before. I believe that in the 20th century, there is going to uh different set of circumstances which, which about which they

00:18:14.949 - 00:18:31.609

didn't dream, but at least in the same way we were having a re examination. Uh It, it's going on all the time, but it's noticeable now owing to urbanization and all the other things that have encompassed it. So I think we are examining traditional ways of

00:18:31.619 - 00:18:48.810

doing things, traditional ways of thinking. This doesn't mean that we are rejecting them. It means that we are in the, in the process of a republic of constantly examining our presupposition and our methods. That, that's a broad. So if you compare the University of Chattanooga with,

00:18:48.839 - 00:19:07.180

right, the University of Chattanooga is so much smaller than rice, it's, uh about right at around 2000 students. Uh It is an urban university in a particular sense, more than rice and that most of its students are commuting students. One of the things I have I

00:19:07.189 - 00:19:27.020

have missed and has said there is the the resident population on campus. I find it hard to, to communicate with a, with a moving group. And uh although this seems strange to say in the particular context that we are in, what makes it interesting is that

00:19:27.030 - 00:19:42.530

it will retain its own endowment, which is a modest one in terms of uh other schools, but but considerable in that area of the country. And this endowment will remain under the present board of trustees to be used for the enrichment development of their program things

00:19:42.540 - 00:20:05.319

which the state cannot provide. You see one that intrigues me. Thank you very much like a ma OK. They had previously rejected, you know why they may have found that I have no knowledge, whatever I have not communicated with or had any information about the deliberations

00:20:05.329 - 00:20:29.079

of that community. All right, when you expect your job, if, and I, I knew that there was a committee, the degree of, of deliberation that had occurred between them. I did not know and I did not inquire Doctor Masterson. I assumed you several questions were raised

00:20:29.089 - 00:20:49.869

as to what the back of the house, the wife of a voice, a voice in his voice of President. Mm 1,000,000. I think that this is one of the questions why you were after separate a legal question from any kind of uh expedient or moral or

00:20:49.880 - 00:21:07.199

other kinds of principles, the legal, legally, the choice of the president rests in the board of trustees of the university. Uh To what extent they involve the faculty and uh a student, I think is a function of each institution and its divisions and it's uh its

00:21:07.209 - 00:21:41.150

philosophy. Uh and the rise is not a large institution. As far as the Roman is concerned, there have been some cases where campus violence is. Do you have Green and Marshall the normal at about 1000 times? You foresee anything of a serious nature, right. Doctor Masterson.

00:21:50.770 - 00:22:25.130

I appreciate that. This is the press conference. Hallwood students in front of Lovett Hall today. 46 is five and I, I know the time of day is not convenient. I appreciate it. Ok. You, I wanted this just say to you why I'm speaking, what has happened

00:22:25.140 - 00:23:00.880

is that break down yeah, between number the best in many universities, these components are still faculty and administration trustees, I do not believe and I have many questions, but this was an intentional breakout, I believe it can balance through a variety of those uh pop goblin,

00:23:01.989 - 00:23:26.250

right? And nobody's thought of it cause a lot of trouble ale extremely important for the greatness your name is connected with and my name is connected with. Yes, that we reestablished that communication. I will tell you frankly that I need to make that one of the

00:23:26.260 - 00:23:56.630

very first and the most important and that's all. And my illustrations I believe in, did we talk to each other? The, the board of trustees is charged with the selection of when they approached me on the question, if they make situation about it, if they offered

00:23:56.640 - 00:24:30.430

me this position, this is, which is in their legal position to do. Go to my association with the school. I would accept, they had a meeting, they supported me that this uh council consideration was made. But I have been infected. I, I believe, I think that

00:24:30.439 - 00:25:04.119

they, well, you know, we are in the basis, the important thing for us now to re-establish these lines, move all together in building a anyway. So just go thank you very big up, big up the rest of my life. You know, um reassignment, the communication. I

00:25:04.859 - 00:25:37.089

understand you this anniversary at the first step as you paid in the Senate. Of the 56 committee. Uh Are you willing to do this as your first step? I will think I will answer that with the frankness that I hope I can always have with you.

00:25:38.349 - 00:26:00.969

The legal representatives of the university have done their duty and we accept five months. I have accepted it and the stamp in which they offered it. I say no, it will help this school help bringing this situation together by any kind of reconsideration. The more is

00:26:01.750 - 00:26:22.739

the amount of f I think that all that will happen to the school with this will be in here to our university. The answer to your question therefore, is that I do not uh uh I will not under any circumstances that I can conceive of uh

00:26:22.750 - 00:26:47.250

consider this reconsider this. And I do not believe that that in any way invalidate what I just said about when you then you know, attend a general meeting, which was a general meeting of the board of trustees. And you to explain the vision of the board

00:26:47.260 - 00:27:01.540

of trustees and explain your position as to exactly how the board of trustees selected you ignoring the student faculty committee, which they designated what they, I believe that they were going to take advice of. You would in no way consider attending that the meeting because the

00:27:01.739 - 00:27:28.979

fire is closed. Uh And with the student leadership of the school, any kind of, I do not. However, in my own mind thing thought of and all the school students of the school and what not to be a, to produce a very great deal. Now, your

00:27:29.290 - 00:28:11.229

idea. And I think it is beyond any doubt that uh if you resign, this will do great harm to the university. Are you positive in your own mind that if you do not resign, it will not do more harm to the university? Feel like here I

00:28:11.329 - 00:28:41.390

was in about it a couple more for you. All right, we take two more questions, three more questions. The, the answer to that question is, is clear if I, if I felt that it would do, if I did not resign, I would take whatever action that

00:28:41.400 - 00:28:57.180

would avoid doing the most time. I've forgotten how you placed the question, but I would, I would avoid doing that, which I will, I will take whatever action in my mind will do the least time for the university. Not to mention it. Does that include, does

00:28:57.189 - 00:29:23.770

that include reconsideration? The board? Does that count reconsideration of that? I, I can hear, I can hear, I can hear you, Doctor Masson. Is it not true that when you left this university 23 years ago, there was not an understood agreement between you and the board

00:29:23.780 - 00:29:36.069

or at least one member of the board that you, you're going to the University of Chattanooga was training you to come back as President of Rice and that your return last year to give the, to, to give the speech before the graduating class was part of

00:29:36.079 - 00:30:00.109

this plan to institute you as president of Rice University. And absolutely no base to that. I'm bad. But the majority of the faculty and the students here disagree with you and think that your resignation would be better for the university than your acceptance. Does that have

00:30:00.119 - 00:30:37.280

any effect on your opinion? And on your decision, I have not had any, had any direct evidence about the opinion of the majority of the faculty. They, they, they might have let that quiet. 9031 30,000. OK. If you are referring to the matter of the uh

00:30:38.280 - 00:30:58.329

votes of the matter yesterday, uh I was not present, I do not know what precisely what the motion was, but as I understand it, the motion was to refer, refer the matter to the committee or to the faculty student committee for further reference to uh the

00:30:58.339 - 00:31:21.729

committee to the trustee. I'm going to, I'm going to, I have you at the moment, two other groups to meet. I'd like to pose with another question of who has for. I'd like to ask you point blank. Uh Whether or not do you consider the, the

00:31:21.739 - 00:31:39.400

forming of a community? Mine, the first community mine that's ever been in Rice University virtually since the beginning of its history. Something which you can refute by going ahead and just accepting what the board of trustees has said, knowing that through the people out here and

00:31:39.410 - 00:31:52.420

through people who are not here and through people who you will be in touch with later on and who I know who have called you and who have expressed their opinion? Do you still believe that you can form a workable rapport with the students and the

00:31:52.430 - 00:32:09.660

faculty of this university? And do you feel that if you do accept this uh appointment as president, do you think that Rice University will ever be any university worth what it has been in the past? Under your uh I can't say denomination but under your reign

00:32:09.670 - 00:32:31.040

as president, you, you have said, what will I do? Uh when a number of events occur, when more evidence or more this or that when that occurs, then I will no matter what I'm going to do as far as uh whether I think this will or

00:32:31.050 - 00:32:50.150

will not, whether an administration of mine in the future can help the university. I would say this depends upon uh no one president makes the university or doesn't, it depends upon the this community of people, faculty and students administration. And uh I would hope that under

00:32:50.160 - 00:33:11.349

my administration, this would these, these groups would work together but I cannot say that it would or would not. I simply believe it's impossible. I have a motion pass my day. Did I read that? Why is that? I could I read the motion of the I'd

00:33:11.359 - 00:33:29.859

like to repeat the most in the past today. 951 to 7, there's a proposal voted upon in a, in a group of the the entire meeting of student body. It reads as follows. The students of Rice University vigorously protest and cannot accept the procedures used to

00:33:29.869 - 00:33:48.390

select the new president. Specifically, the students rejected the faculty student faculty committee which was requested by the board and duly elected was not consulted about the final appointment. We emphatically request that this appointment be recon reconsidered after appropriate consultation with the student faculty presidential selection committee

00:33:48.979 - 00:34:16.499

that and and almost in part of the same motion that was passed yesterday by the by the faculty meeting in sa also, the vote was 951 to 7. The faculty vote was 91 to 57 on the third statement, 170 to 10 at seven o'clock tonight with

00:34:16.589 - 00:34:42.560

tape recordings of everything that happened today, the general meeting, the press conference and this plus any new information at +5957 o'clock. Ladies and gentlemen, that's what you heard today as it happened to Kowl, we were there and why now get in touch with you and find

00:34:42.570 - 00:35:05.379

out what your reaction was to uh today's events. Uh as you know, uh the board of Governors today named ah Doctor Mason. Pardon me? I can hear you. Is this better, sir? Can you hear me now? Uh is this any better? No, no difference. Well, we're

00:35:05.389 - 00:35:28.409

having a problem here. Well, so what we wanted is your reaction today to um, the uh board of Governors um appointing Doctor Masterson as the next president of Rice University. Well, I understand that this is done without proper consultation with the faculty committee and if that's

00:35:28.419 - 00:35:45.540

correct, um I think this was unfortunate. Well, have you talked with any of the faculty members here at Rice, um, who have expressed their opinions to you? And if so, what were those opinions? Well, they can speak their own, they can speak their own opinions. They

00:35:45.550 - 00:35:58.110

have two or three of them have been in touch with me. So that, that's where I got the information I have. Is it a matter of personal qualification on Dr Masterson? Or is it a matter of the means strictly by what you were selected? Well, they

00:35:58.120 - 00:36:15.239

say they will have to speak for themselves on that. I don't want to comment about personalities, but I do feel that it was unfortunate that the committees, the committee wasn't properly consulted if uh that the fact as I understand it was. Ok, sir, we thank you

00:36:15.250 - 00:37:01.620

very much for your comments. Thank you. You're welcome. This is an interview with Dean Pfeiffer on Feb Friday, February 21st, 1969 without the first three minutes of that. Why didn't they, at least for the formality try to go through the committee that they had

00:37:01.629 - 00:37:19.159

asked to be set up just, uh, you know, to take away all this argument that they've got your, your guess is your guess is as good as mine. I, I'm, I'm completely dumbfounded that, that they understand so little about the, the nature of what would have

00:37:19.169 - 00:37:32.090

been proper operations here that they made this mistake. Well, what do you think will be the course of action, say tomorrow and in the future for rice as a, as a college? Um as a university? Do you think? What do you think will be the impact

00:37:32.100 - 00:37:51.639

of the demonstrations uh by the students and the, the overwhelming uh protests by the faculty? What impact do you think this will have on the decision? I, I really have very little hopes for any uh any change in, in the decision. Uh The problem that uh

00:37:51.649 - 00:38:05.530

a lot of us have to sort out personally as well as collectively is, you know, where do we go from here? My only hope is that, you know, we all learn something from this. And uh uh if we have to put this mistake behind us, if

00:38:05.540 - 00:38:20.530

we don't have another chance to have a go at this, then we've got to ask, how do we get the most out of it? I personally uh is uh one who in some sense is caught in the middle here. I'm going to have to answer the

00:38:20.540 - 00:38:36.500

question for myself. Uh How can I best serve the, the university and the student body. Um, and I really don't know the answer to this. Uh, I think it's gonna be necessary for me to be quite frank with the new president assuming that he is in

00:38:36.510 - 00:38:51.030

fact, uh, install in office. And I think the probability is very high that he will. Um, uh, it just seems to me that, uh, I got to be quite frank with him about, about my own feelings and then we go from there. Well, Doctor River made

00:38:51.040 - 00:39:07.290

the statement tonight in Hanson at right before supper that he felt that even though uh the appointment had been made, uh he felt that it was important, Rice to the future in the next 10 years was more important perhaps than uh public embarrassment. Uh that Rice

00:39:07.300 - 00:39:21.439

would suffer and perhaps rescinding the nomination. What do you think about this? Do you think there is a possibility of uh someone else obtaining the appointment or do you think this is final as you indicated? Well, because I, I know so little about the board, I

00:39:21.449 - 00:39:36.830

have no way of fathoming their thinking. But in so far as I can see, they feel that they have made a commitment to the man unless the man himself uh decides that a mistake has been made and is willing to, to back off. Um, uh I,

00:39:36.840 - 00:39:55.790

I see no hopes of anything but uh having to go on from here. Um I don't know. Uh It seems that that he feels that um the only proper course for him to go do is to the only proper course for him to take is to

00:39:55.830 - 00:40:15.330

uh move ahead with the appointment and, and assume the responsibilities as president. Um uh Some people have uh drawn a relationship between the just issued, uh I guess it was in yesterday's thresher statement about disruption of the university by students and people being uh ejected for

00:40:15.340 - 00:40:32.540

this. But most of us think that uh that this, there is no relation because the board did not expect anything to come of uh or anything of the nature that is happening to come of their decision to announce. Doctor Masterson. Yeah, I think there's absolutely no

00:40:32.550 - 00:40:49.939

connection. I mean, the uh campus executive had become concerned that uh one, there were some indications that, that we might be moving towards uh at least minor disruptive tactics at, at rice. And certainly this sort of thing is happening in so many places that felt that

00:40:50.629 - 00:41:14.629

that policy should be clarified, extended insofar as necessary and that uh those who undertake to uh move across what seems to be the line should know what they're doing and, and be willing to take the consequences. Uh There was a concern that uh uh people have

00:41:14.639 - 00:41:32.129

the protection, at least of knowing where they stand and what, what risk they take if, if they, but uh uh the executive committee I'm sure was as surprised uh from what, from all I can gather was, was as surprised as I was and many students knew

00:41:32.139 - 00:41:47.419

about this before I did. Well, what can the students do now that the appointment has been made? What do you feel would be the most effective means of, of protesting the move uh petition or meetings to uh show their, their displeasure with the, with the action?

00:41:47.620 - 00:42:02.669

What would you recommend them to do or do you have any recommendations? Well, I don't have any real recommendations for, for a method here except that I, I think they want to be sure that, that whatever they do is done not only with, with real force

00:42:02.679 - 00:42:24.300

but, but with dignity and, and uh uh a sense of propriety that, that will keep them from being dismissed as immature and, and uh uh highly emotional. Um I think it's very important that somehow or another um their real concern for, for the sense of community

00:42:24.310 - 00:42:42.820

that's begun to develop here. Something that is really new at Rice. Uh the, their real commitment to uh student government, uh uh their feeling that, that uh they have and can continue to participate in, in, in, in the planning and the evaluation and, and to that

00:42:42.830 - 00:43:05.820

extent, the, the decision making that goes on. And II, I think they need to, to be, uh I think they need to be sure that, that um uh they um that, that they get through the, these somewhat intangible aspects. Um II, I think people were really

00:43:05.830 - 00:43:26.689

shocked. Oh, one student, uh you'd know him if I mentioned his name said, you know, I think I discovered today how much I really care for this institution. Well, that's, that's one beneficial thing that may result from this is I feel like personally, I feel like

00:43:26.699 - 00:43:41.540

the university today has been more of a university per se. It is a, it's been acting as a group which is something I feel like that rice is needed. Uh This is not uh this is not the occasion. Uh It's, it's a, it's a sad comment

00:43:41.550 - 00:43:55.479

on, on the situation that it took this to uh bring us together, but this may be one beneficial effect of, of the action of the board today. What do you think? Well, I, I think that the, the statement that was issued by the Student Association, the

00:43:55.489 - 00:44:14.600

Student Senate um emphasizing the sense of community and, and, and uh that, that lay behind the student participation in this and, and uh uh deep regret that this action has, has tended to uh uh to rupture this, this sense of community and, and the hope that

00:44:14.610 - 00:44:33.719

we will come out of this uh with a stronger uh understanding of what we're about and what it really means to, to be a university. Um Whether we can achieve this, I don't know. Uh I'm hopeful. I, I think, I think board people are, are reasonable

00:44:33.729 - 00:44:54.139

people although they, they've lived in a in a different world if you will. Um, I think, uh, Masterson, if he actually does assume the office of president is a man who, who may well be capable of, um, of understanding this and, and, and recognizing that his

00:44:54.149 - 00:45:13.219

relationship to the university would be a different one than, than when he was here before. Could you clarify what you mean by a different world? Yes. The, these are men who, uh, have been active in, in business and industry who, uh, are accustomed to making decisions.

00:45:13.229 - 00:45:33.560

Uh, the boss man makes the decisions or, or the board makes the decisions and these are handed down and uh, uh, employees uh, live with it or go elsewhere. And, uh uh for many years, rest was this way, uh, particularly in the, in the pre tuition

00:45:33.570 - 00:45:52.080

days. Um, uh, there was a feeling that the guy who didn't, you know, didn't shape up, didn't measure up to his potential as a student simply should move over and let somebody in, who would, uh, uh, with, with students through tuition, participating in a, uh, in

00:45:52.090 - 00:46:10.010

a greater extent in paying for the cost of, of their education. Uh I think they have a new kind of relationship. Um, one of the things I was trying to say on the call that, that the board members were not aware that they were doing something

00:46:10.020 - 00:46:26.620

that, that would be, uh, looked upon was reprehensible and, and uh completely foreign to the character. Of the university they were doing that came naturally out of, out of a genuine concern for the university. Uh, I believe they really thought they were picking the best man

00:46:26.629 - 00:46:44.100

available. Uh, why it didn't occur to them that they should at least, you know, uh, check with somebody. I don't know. I think they live in a different world. Uh, well, I've got a couple of more comments. Uh, do you know if Doctor Masterson Masterson applied

00:46:44.110 - 00:47:01.560

for this job? Uh per se? Uh Also, it seems to me that one of the biggest, well, uh bad things about it according to some faculty members that this is that this may hurt faculty recruiting. Although on the other hand, it may help in fundraising and

00:47:01.729 - 00:47:22.250

drawing connection between Rice and the Houston community. Well, I certainly uh don't know anything about, about the background of, of this. Uh uh I suspect that that uh Doctor Masterson was approached by the board and not vice versa, but I think it was well known that

00:47:22.260 - 00:47:39.969

he was quite interested in rice. Uh uh good many faculty people. Uh When, when the matter of selection of president was first up, uh this was one of the first names to be tossed around and tossed out. Well, the University of Chattanooga is in the process

00:47:39.979 - 00:47:55.540

of merging with the University of Tennessee. Is this correct? That's my understanding. I, I have not kept up with that operation and, and uh really have nothing to contribute there. Well, John, do you have anything else you'd like to say that uh somebody uh raised the

00:47:55.550 - 00:48:12.959

question over at the student meeting about um uh the matter of the ill fated statement of policy uh to what extent uh this would apply to people who are involved in, in any kind of demonstration and so on. Um I tried to make clear something that

00:48:12.969 - 00:48:31.270

uh was clear, certainly in the minds of those of us who who discussed the possibility of a policy statement that there, there is a clear distinction between dissent when there's disagreement or disappointment and disruptive tactics. And, and the thing uh the point at issue, the point

00:48:31.280 - 00:48:48.830

of concern is the matter of disruptive tactics. And I expressed the uh the very deep feeling that that students and faculty lack not only uh have the privilege but the responsibility of expressing dissent uh when they feel strongly about something, I, I just hope that they

00:48:48.840 - 00:49:17.510

will do it in the way that is most effective. And I think this will be most effective if they keep it clean, uh do it with dignity and, and, and propriety. Good evening. This is Bill Thomas here in the studios of Kowl Constant News and this

00:49:17.520 - 00:49:32.449

is John Sooty tonight with us in the studios. We have Doctor Donald Clayton of the, of the, excuse me, sir Clayton of the Physics and space Science Department, Doctor Clark Reed of the biology department. Doctor David Nissen from the ECO Department, Doctor Lee Rudy of the

00:49:32.459 - 00:49:48.330

Material Science Department and Turk Collinson, the Hansen sophomore. At this point, we'd like to open the floor to discussion with the uh first of all, starting with Doctor Clayton and ask the question is, what do you think this effect has on the structure of the university?

00:49:48.429 - 00:50:04.169

Actually? What's the implication of this entire thing on the university structure? Well, I can say right, a way that I don't know the answer to that, but the faculty felt very strongly today at the meeting that we were not uh that no one valued our opinion.

00:50:04.179 - 00:50:20.010

In fact, we were almost, I, I feel sort of humiliated by uh by being told that the way we were uh who the new president was to be, of course, as you probably know, we divided uh after some discussion in the faculty meeting, uh a vote

00:50:20.020 - 00:50:34.050

uh on, on two issues, one displeasure with the board for the way in which they'd handled the procedure. And another was a vote that, that perhaps the uh the faculty and the student committee should have a chance to look into the merits of this selection. Those

00:50:34.060 - 00:50:49.520

were two different issues. And uh perhaps until, until I hear more, I don't really know what it will mean from the university. Uh And uh I, I think I just as soon hear from someone else. Uh uh right now about, about that, if anyone has anything

00:50:49.530 - 00:51:09.850

to say? Ok, let's hear from Doctor Reed then. Well, I'll comment on this on a, on a more political level. Uh The uh representative from the board of trustees said they were very interested in uh selecting a man who was a local boy. That's what it

00:51:09.860 - 00:51:31.739

amounts to. They said they wanted someone who would be able to relate to the community. And uh the implication was that he would be able to get money uh for Rice University. But, uh this, uh, sort of bypasses the, the fundamental question of what a president

00:51:31.750 - 00:51:47.419

of a university should be unless we're talking about some kind of provincial institute, you know, and down here on the Gulf Coast, uh if we're talking about, you know, some kind of institution that they have in commerce, Texas or, or at Barger, uh that might be

00:51:47.429 - 00:52:07.659

a little more appropriate. But if we're talking about an institution of higher learning, uh that, uh has been laid out in the same sorts of terms that the, the board of trustees has endorsed, that the faculty has endorsed and which tacitly, uh, the students have endorsed.

00:52:07.669 - 00:52:21.669

I, I'm not sure that the students have had an opportunity to endorse it, but at least tacitly the idea, it's very hard to argue against the idea that you want your institution to be, uh, uh, an institution of the first rank, which is, uh which is

00:52:21.679 - 00:52:38.620

what the 10 year plan consists of it says that, that you want your institution to be an institution of the first rank. The implication being that we're not of the first rank, ah, that were poised on the edge of greatness or something like that. Uh, if

00:52:38.629 - 00:52:55.580

you are going to do this, I am not convinced that the answer to the problem in the most general terms is to hire someone who is going to be a local Chamber of Commerce character. Uh someone who will, you know, be able to drum up funds

00:52:55.590 - 00:53:15.030

from the Kiwanis Club and the uh local Chamber of Commerce Boys and the Lions Club and uh the Cameron Ironworks and the, the uh Brown and Root and uh all these local outfits. Uh if Rice Insti Institute or Rice University as it has been called now

00:53:15.040 - 00:53:33.280

for several years is to be an institution that is to be called something of the first quality. Uh We have to, we had to look to uh an audience that's a little bit larger than uh an audience composed of the local tycoons or the local, the

00:53:33.290 - 00:53:54.419

local interest. And uh in, in that sense, this is as silly as hell. Uh they uh the idea that an institution that calls itself an institution of national significance uh would uh appoint a president who is appointed on the basis of the idea that he is

00:53:54.629 - 00:54:19.270

uh has a broad appeal to the local nerd is uh unbelievable that is that a man who, who has a appeal for the brown and root or uh for, you know, any of these uh local concerns uh is significant, is uh significance, is uh really uh

00:54:19.280 - 00:54:43.300

miniscule significance. But the most interesting thing about this appointment is the fact that it has essentially no uh support within the faculty of the university. Uh Now, this particular person uh whom the board has chosen to appoint president of the university is a proven loser. Uh

00:54:43.310 - 00:55:06.250

He has been uh the uh Dean of the Humanities and uh almost universally has been uh disliked, uh avoided and in all senses of the word have been uh uh very disagreeable to those people who have to deal with the problems of uh the humanities division

00:55:06.260 - 00:55:21.780

of this university. Well, uh hold on, I hate to cut you off, Michael. I'll comment on that further. Well, well, let's, let's if you want to stay out of the personality right now right now and just stay with the implications. Let's stay with the implications. Uh

00:55:22.590 - 00:55:40.060

Would you like? Uh I, I have some more I can say about the implications uh leaving all personalities out of this. Uh Absolutely not, not commenting in any way on the personality of the man that we're talking about and leaving it completely on the basis of

00:55:40.070 - 00:56:04.169

quality. The fact is that the uh faculty advisory committee to select a president for the university which involved, of course uh students who were also on this committee uh had uh considered this candidate for the presidency of this university and they had rejected him and they

00:56:04.179 - 00:56:26.179

had sent five other names to the uh board of trustees uh which they were uh presented for tentative consideration. Now, uh this committee operated on the idea that this university was a national and international institution that we were not concerned with. Uh getting some kind of

00:56:26.189 - 00:56:44.524

local boyet to recognize the university at the local level that we were not particularly concerned with uh with the appeasing any kind of local school considerations. But that way we interested in truly having a university of the first quality. Now, if you are interested in a

00:56:44.534 - 00:57:03.070

university of the first quality, uh these things that involve whether or not somebody can raise money from brown and root the the Cameron Ironworks or some other outfit downtown is of no significance. It really is not of significance because if you have a president who is

00:57:03.080 - 00:57:18.090

truly of national significance, these people are going to give money to the university because you're talking about an institution of the first quality and they will not be able to ignore it. Thank you very much, Doctor Reid. At this point, we'd like to hand our microphone

00:57:18.100 - 00:57:33.510

to Doctor Rudy and ask what he feels, the implications of this is on the university structure. Well, I must say I was given a hard act to follow here. I think the the most ominous thing is that rice has probably more than most universities had a

00:57:33.520 - 00:57:52.409

great reservoir of good faith between the faculty and the students and the administration. And I I feel very strongly that this action today dissipated this reservoir more than almost anything that could be done. And I think uh without being a a conspiratorial in view, uh I

00:57:52.419 - 00:58:07.949

think that this selection was done on the basis of nostalgia for the by the members of the board who were, who are all rice alums to return to the quieter and easier times of their youth. Excuse me, a minute. Doctor Rudy, do I understand you to

00:58:07.959 - 00:58:24.790

say that the students have lost faith in the faculty or in the administration all the way around? I think that I think that you rice people here at rice faculty members believe the board, the administration believe the board, largely the students believe the administration. And I

00:58:24.800 - 00:58:42.100

think there is a uh there's certainly been one link in this chain of believability and good faith, which has been very drastically severed. And I think that it will put certainly uh mean that if uh uh when if or when Mr Masterson comes, ah, there will,

00:58:42.110 - 00:58:58.570

will certainly be a lack, great lack of good faith there between the faculty and the students and ah who other, what other bodies there are around here? OK. Thank you very much. And Doctor Nissen, could we have your points of view on the subject, please? It's

00:58:58.810 - 00:59:21.209

on, it's on, I, I find myself, uh, essentially in agreement with the, ah, remarks and my colleagues, ah, the implications of today's, ah, the actions of the past week of the board. Uh, we're going to be very grave in terms of the future health of the

00:59:21.219 - 00:59:37.429

university now that there's sort of three pieces of evidence that I've written down on a piece of paper here that, that one can marshal in terms. So you see the issue that's been raised, uh, is, is kind of terrifying. The issue that's been raised is the

00:59:37.439 - 00:59:57.120

confidence of the, of, of the board of trustees to administer the Rice University. Uh, perhaps many of you out there read the, the farewell statement as it were that President Pitzer issued when he left Rice. President Pitzer was a, a very competent man and internationally known

00:59:57.129 - 01:00:18.550

scientist. And, uh, I think, uh, practically universally was regarded as a very good president and as a president who set Rice on the road to being an internationally important and internationally creative and productive university. Ah, his statement was guarded as public statements by, by sensible men

01:00:18.560 - 01:00:39.689

are. But one force of that statement was that there was a certain provincialism in, ah, the, ah, sort of policy matters considered by the board. Ah, a second piece of evidence was a statement made by Trustee Allen. It's been remarked upon already by Doctor Reid, ah,

01:00:40.419 - 01:00:57.840

tonight. And that was the insistence by, ah, Trustee Allen that one of the things the, ah, board was looking for was a Rice alumni. Now, I can think of uh no other institution with which I have been associated, which would make that a criterion of judgment.

01:00:57.850 - 01:01:16.239

I was an undergraduate at Cal Tech, which is, which is uh an institution which has succeeded in the pursuit of the goals that rice as I understood rice when I came here has succeeded in, ah, in, ah, obtaining the kind of stature that Rice has set

01:01:16.250 - 01:01:37.030

out for. Uh the idea that a criterion of judgment for the president would be, that he would be a rice graduate strikes me as indicative of, of a, of a, ok, indicative of, of a provincialism on the part of the board. That's a bit scary for

01:01:37.040 - 01:01:55.610

those of us who uh, who have attached our, our destiny to Rice University finally and most dramatic, of course, is the way in which the board chose the president that, ah, perhaps apparently is going to be inflicted upon us whether or not he's a good president

01:01:56.370 - 01:02:19.120

or will make a good president. Is uh a distinct issue from the fact that the method chosen indicated an astonishing lack of comprehension about the way any university, let alone a university which is in the business is in the pursuit of excellence operates, uh the act

01:02:19.179 - 01:02:40.159

that, uh, that, ah, they have engaged in has, has destroyed at a very fundamental level. Uh, a kind of faith and coherence on this campus. And I don't think that's gonna be reparable very soon. And let me say one further thing II, I teach courses in

01:02:40.169 - 01:02:59.139

economics. I teach courses in social science. Uh, I had my 30th birthday yesterday and I'm no longer to be trusted. Uh, and I find that when, uh, I engage in discussion about social science with people who a re perhaps 10 years younger than I am, ah,

01:02:59.149 - 01:03:15.229

I report from my own experience that I found that the system learns much faster than I would have expected it to at the age of 20. And I, I say, like, listen, you know, you, the United States is engaged in doing things that when you look

01:03:15.239 - 01:03:32.020

at them after the fact are good and things when you look at them after the fact are evil, but the system works somehow and it learns, I find myself in mid air after today, I find myself not being able to refute the radical case anymore. Or

01:03:32.030 - 01:03:52.929

I find that the evidence that I can marshal to refute the radical case has been sadly, and I think, ah, importantly damaged by the action of the, ah, of the board with respect to this particular decision, the decision itself, the force of the decision itself may

01:03:52.939 - 01:04:14.570

or may not bode ill for the quality of administration at rice. But the method of the decision has, ah, has made uh the practice of orderly and civilized. Discourse and orderly and a civilized approach to problem solving. A much more difficult business on this campus. Thank

01:04:14.639 - 01:04:35.790

you, Doctor Nis. We need to take a break. This is Kowl five H Texas. Ok. Turk. Would you like to add anything? Do the? Well, I can't exactly give the student point of view, uh, since I'm only one of the students. But, um, as many, I

01:04:35.800 - 01:04:53.629

guess many of you all out there that are listening, if there's anybody out there listening, who knows, ah, I'm a member of the, ah, Rice SDS. And, um, I do have a few comments to make on the structural implications. I think of, ah, the decision by

01:04:53.639 - 01:05:17.000

the Board of Governors. And I think the main point, the main question that needs to be asked is one which is, ah, been sadly passed over and the recent discussions that have gone on on this campus concerning the various issues of Razi and defense contracts and

01:05:17.010 - 01:05:39.379

such, ah, rigmarole, um, it's been assumed that the faculty did have some power. It's been assumed that the students were getting more power by being asked to sit in on such things as the, ah, faculty student advisory board. And I think what we have seen today

01:05:39.389 - 01:06:02.340

is they, uh, realization that in fact, this university is controlled by the Board of Governors. And of course, this is, ah, most people know is a little clause written in, in the, ah, Will of Will Rice that ah, set up the entire university. But I think

01:06:02.350 - 01:06:25.310

that it has not been demonstrated effectively at this point up until this point that rice in fact, is governed by a, ah, select group of men separate from. And, ah, indeed, I would say, ah, completely divorced from the rice community, meaning of course, faculty and students

01:06:25.320 - 01:06:41.840

and staff and so forth. Ah, at this point, ah, like to ask any students who are listening, who have any specific questions that they'd like to ask, ah, of either doctors Clayton Reid, Rudy Nissen or Mr Tomlinson or any, or all of them are free to,

01:06:41.850 - 01:06:55.580

ah, call in 12, 63 or 12, 64. And we have someone on duty who'll take your question. I have a question that I'd like to ask of each or all of you. One of the primary considerations that they were throwing around at the meeting this afternoon,

01:06:55.590 - 01:07:14.590

the faculty meeting was that, ah, so the board has made a mistake. Why don't you just go along with this and avoid any embarrassment or harm to the university? Now, just exactly what harm will come to the university if, ah, well, since this issue has come

01:07:14.600 - 01:07:31.429

up, what harm, I mean, will this destroy our image before the nation that we have decided? We as students and faculty have decided that we dislike the board's choice along the same lines. Uh, Dean Pfeiffer, an interview earlier tonight stated that he sees that there is

01:07:31.449 - 01:07:46.260

almost no chance that the board will change its decision. So if in fact, we are, I can think of no other word besides stuck with uh the present choice. Uh What do you feel we as students? And what do you think the faculty will do work

01:07:46.270 - 01:08:02.310

that in with the same if you can with his question? The important issue is not, this is Doctor Nipson. The important issue is not ah the image of rice before the nation. Nor is it as, as was urged at the faculty meeting today, whether or not

01:08:02.709 - 01:08:19.589

ah the negotiations between the board and uh the prospective president are to be carried on in a, in a uh in a courteous fashion. The issue is much larger than that. The issue is one that has reached the newspapers uh all over the country. The issue

01:08:19.600 - 01:08:44.709

is about the structure of universities and about the structure of education and about the nature of participation and instruction. And uh what has been damaged by the action taken is, is uh is the quality of, of communication and the quality of, of AAA pushing for of,

01:08:44.720 - 01:09:06.858

of the possibilities of pushing forward a way to find uh an answer to the question. How should uh uh people between the ages of 17 and 21? How should they most productively spend their lives? Now, uh One answer is given on the far left that the

01:09:06.869 - 01:09:21.179

only way productively to spend your life and to maintain your integrity is that you junk it and you start over. Another answer is that within the system, there exists a viability to work out the problems without the bloodshed and without the destruction of the quality of

01:09:21.188 - 01:09:43.200

life. That is usually if history teaches us anything can comment upon that sort. Of course, ah, the action of the board has been to make less credible, the answer that the problems facing the latter half of the 20th century can be solved in a civilized, burly

01:09:43.240 - 01:09:58.359

and nonviolent fashion. Thank you, Doctor Nis and Doctor Clay. Do you have a comment? Yeah, I think in all honesty, we must acknowledge that there were members of the board and of the faculty who, who did feel and I think it's largely a question of personality

01:09:59.149 - 01:10:13.109

that an argument or a disagreement about an issue as important as this one should somehow be hushed up and it should all be made to look very pretty. On the other hand, many of us don't exactly feel that that's anything to be feared. I think that

01:10:13.120 - 01:10:27.689

we live in a time when disagreements of this kind are not to be feared and are in fact to be welcomed as long as they're argued reasonably, uh, and on the basis of, of intelligent opinion, and I might point out that that uh, objection is by

01:10:27.700 - 01:10:41.250

no means uncommon. Even in good choices, there were considerable doubts and objections for unknowing faculty members when uh when Kenneth Pitzer was selected and of course, when he was selected for Stanford, there was a lot of objections there. In spite of the fact that I think

01:10:41.259 - 01:10:58.520

we're pretty confident he will make a good, uh a good, uh a good president for Stanford. Uh What I have feared is most of all is that in this particular stage of time, Rice will get a president who will not aggressively pursue the basic plan that

01:10:58.529 - 01:11:14.640

Kenneth Pitzer did have. And that was to make Rice University really something of, of, of, of uh of importance in the intellectual world. And if the present, I'm not saying that Masterson does not have that ambition, I, I wonder, I wonder whether he does or not

01:11:14.649 - 01:11:29.399

very much, but I think that's really uh really certainly one of the bases, one of the basic issues, namely just, you know, what does the university want? I think we have to realize that that in the university, it really is largely the thrust of the faculty

01:11:29.410 - 01:11:46.129

to provide the intellectual perspective and the intellectual programs and the drives that will make it effective. Secondly, it's the, it's the students who are the basic products of the university, the students and the intellectual activity that uh that are the reason for the university's existence and

01:11:46.140 - 01:11:58.214

its progress. And it's the duty of the administration to see that those two function together as effectively as possible. And it seems to me that this, this structuring this picture of what a university ought to be, has not, has not really been, uh, met in this

01:11:58.225 - 01:12:12.535

decision. And that's really, really what worries me. I don't object to Masterson because I can't say he's going to be a bad president. But, uh, but on the, on the face of it, the, uh, uh, the, the, uh, coincidental facts if you will and the way

01:12:12.544 - 01:12:29.750

in which the decision was made, uh, makes me afraid that uh uh that the board has been somewhat nostalgic about this. After all costs are rising in all private universities. Rice encountered the first deficit it's ever had during the Pitzer administration. I think there's some evidence

01:12:29.930 - 01:12:42.620

that Pitzer did make the board at times a little bit nervous because he did have aggressive ambitions for Rice. I think there's some reason to believe that perhaps the board didn't want to go through this with, with the next president. Now. I hope that's not right.

01:12:44.100 - 01:13:01.600

Thank you, Doctor Clayton. Doctor Reed. Well, of course, uh these ideas about uh the deficit of the university are a little bit artificial. Uh because if you look at the University of Universities of Quality in the United States, for example, I, when I was teaching at

01:13:01.609 - 01:13:20.459

the Johns Hopkins, uh several years ago, the deficit for the university in one year was a $2 million. Uh The deficit at Rice uh in a later year was $100,000. Uh The orders of magni the order of magnitude here is quite a difference. Uh As a

01:13:20.470 - 01:13:39.560

matter of fact, uh the rice has been extremely uh conservative with respect to the whole problem of a deficit financing. The whole problem of the expansion of the university, the whole problem of quality education, if you visit other institutions uh in the United States that are

01:13:39.569 - 01:13:58.450

concerned uh with the the quality of teaching for students. Uh You find that there is a very different sort of sets of concerns now, as a, as a faculty member, uh I have to say, you know, that personal elements also become involved in this. Uh uh

01:13:58.459 - 01:14:15.990

I, I mean, in, in talking to students, uh uh I'm, I'm students uh have to judge faculty members and on a personal basis and, and basically, uh I'm a, I'm a shy person. Uh uh uh the fact that now I see Lee Rudy laughing when I

01:14:16.000 - 01:14:31.270

say that. But the fact is that in, in dealing with students that I am because now I'm not uh I'm not 30 years old as uh as uh one of the other staff members here said uh I'm, I'm 18 years past 30 years old. Uh maybe

01:14:31.279 - 01:14:48.790

I'm starting on my second childhood. But uh the fact is that uh that faculty members have different things to offer students uh and students I think are uh aware of this and, and rice is a place in which uh different kinds of people on a faculty

01:14:48.799 - 01:15:04.589

offer different things to different people. That is uh one man offers one thing to one kind of person. Another man offers uh something else to another kind of person. Uh That's, that's the essence of a university. Uh the essence of a university is that uh uh

01:15:04.839 - 01:15:23.149

we're a group of people uh thinking and learning. And uh when we run into the sort of thing that we have run into here in the last couple of days in which we find essentially the basis for this notion being attacked. That's essentially what it is.

01:15:23.160 - 01:15:44.069

It's an attack on this uh on this idea that uh the people who are here uh basically concerned with uh thinking and learning uh are not allowed to have any sort of uh of word or mechanism for making their feelings known in terms of, of defining

01:15:44.080 - 01:16:03.720

the destiny of a community for thinking and learning. Uh This is a very disturbing proposition. Uh I, I have never been in a situation where we had exactly uh this, this sort of disturbance, but of course, American universities have changed in the last few years, uh

01:16:03.729 - 01:16:20.589

15 years ago, perhaps in the university. Uh you might have had a situation in which this situation might have been acceptable. As a matter of fact, at rice, it was not acceptable when uh Mr Pitcher was chosen as the president of this university. Uh It was

01:16:20.600 - 01:16:41.919

not done without any consultation with other people. This, this was a, this is a unique situation at present when this pitcher was chosen as president of this university. He visited this campus, he was consulted with and uh interviewed by at least four members of the faculty

01:16:42.180 - 01:17:00.069

of the university. Uh They went to dinner with Mr Pitcher, they talked to him, they also talked with other candidates. Uh Mr Pitcher was looked at by the faculty of the university. Uh, in this particular instance, we have completely departed from this, this idea and the,

01:17:00.080 - 01:17:22.970

the, the fact is that, uh this is, this is one in which the university is, is being asked to accept a person who is a senior executive officer for all of our attempts to, to pursue uh scholarship and an intellectual life without consultation, realizing all these

01:17:22.979 - 01:17:36.729

facts to be true. Let's, let's for the moment, jump to the future, say a week. Do you, did you have something to say on this? Doctor Rudy? Ok. Ok. Excuse me. But jumping to the future, say a week or two weeks from now, when we realize

01:17:36.740 - 01:17:54.109

that irregardless of our points of view, ah, Doctor Masterson does become the president of the university. What do we do then? How or what measures will have to be taken to get us back into one happy family again, I think, let's hear from Turk first. Ah,

01:17:55.000 - 01:18:09.069

I'm sure most of the students out there would like to know what they're supposed to do. And then I think we'd like to, to find out what, what exactly what effect will this have on the faculty? The Turkey man. Um Well, first of all, I know

01:18:09.080 - 01:18:37.189

right now most uh the majority of the student body, I think along with the faculty obviously is uh rather morally outraged at what is um happened. And during the next two weeks, of course, we are going to come to the realization that uh legally, that is

01:18:37.580 - 01:18:59.129

within the bounds of the uh structure of the university as it was set up by our founder, Will Rice. We legally can do nothing about this decision. There is no legal out, there is no legal uh string to be pulled here. And I've talked with uh

01:18:59.140 - 01:19:17.109

doctor Reed vaguely about what kind of steps could be taken to uh break the will as was done. But I mean, this type of thing you've just got, you've got to realize that uh we are in a legal bind here. You're a student. What are you

01:19:17.120 - 01:19:30.919

gonna do about it? Well, I mean, you're more radical than most students. So, what are you going to do as a student? What do you know, what do you think students should do? I mean, we've been b sing around about the implications and how bad it

01:19:30.930 - 01:19:50.540

is but what are we going to do about it? Well, uh no, I don't intend to transfer at all. I like the university. I like right where I am. Well, you already decided to do that. Uh No, uh as a member of SDS, uh I would

01:19:50.549 - 01:20:08.669

first like to say something that, that uh come on. What are you going to do? Not as a member of SDS. I want to bring this out man as a, as a rice student. First, I'm going to uh participate in the demonstration tomorrow that will be

01:20:08.680 - 01:20:23.390

held at 12 o'clock and then participate in the uh act the uh teach in or form if you, but what if this doesn't do anything? Well, if this doesn't do any good, I think we'll have to see what the situations dictate. But I'd like to make

01:20:23.399 - 01:20:39.089

it clear. First of all that uh sds does not intend to uh instigate any violence on this campus at all through this issue. But I would like to make because you'd be kicked out and that wouldn't gain anybody anything. Well, of course, it makes sense, but

01:20:39.100 - 01:20:55.810

there are a lot of people that a lot of students that have been uh rather uh concerned that sds is gonna try to capitalize on the situation and create some violence or something on the, I'm sure everyone's glad to hear that they're going to, ah, ok,

01:20:56.089 - 01:21:16.720

let's have some faculty comments. Um I know for myself, Clayton speaking that certainly the first thing that assuming the presidency goes ahead, which II, I think we're all guessing is going, is probably going to happen, but maybe, maybe not. But if it does, uh certainly, um

01:21:17.209 - 01:21:35.180

I think the thing to do is to see what Masterson's stance is. We really haven't had a chance to hear that. And, and so we, uh uh although uh we may be skeptical, we'll see what it is. But, but uh as for myself, uh I have

01:21:35.189 - 01:21:51.299

come here with rather high ambitions personally about myself and my role at Rice and, and uh had moderate success in that progress. And I must say that that if it looks as if rice is going to take a uh even a small step backward, which I

01:21:51.310 - 01:22:09.390

don't think is right for this time, I will be very uh uh disillusioned about uh about my role here at Rice, very frankly. Well, doctor Reed, uh as most people know you aren't going to be around. But what, what concisely if possible do you think uh

01:22:09.399 - 01:22:23.879

students at any rate should do about this since as a faculty member you've already fed out? But what should students do? Uh No, I haven't exactly think out. I don't think that that's the right way to put it because the fact is I, I have a

01:22:23.890 - 01:22:40.799

very special attachment to this institution. I uh took all my degrees in this institution uh which uh you know, you look, you look in the catalog, you know. Yeah, you look in the catalog. I could be president uh which is the most improbable thing. I can

01:22:40.810 - 01:22:56.819

think I can think of but, uh, the, the no, I have a very strong personal interest in this, in this institution. Uh because I am leaving here at the end of this academic year. Uh, does not mean that I don't have a personal and special interest

01:22:56.830 - 01:23:13.140

in this place. Love affair with Rice University, long term love affair with Rice University because I really do because I really, you know, I've had a long, long thing going with rice. But, uh, I'm, I'm very disillusioned at the moment about Rice. Um, Doctor Rudy, you've

01:23:13.149 - 01:23:28.220

been more than silent for a few moments. Let's hear from you. Well, at the risk of seeming like a total pollyanna, I, I think the one glimmer of hope here is that this is that the solid solidarity between the students and faculty and the show of,

01:23:28.229 - 01:23:46.649

of opposition though it may be, it may be over. Ah, it, it probably will be overwhelmed by the board. We may have the situation that's occurred with the, with the appointment of, ah, Wally Hickel to, ah, Secretary Interior, a man who was, ah, appalling, appalling to

01:23:46.660 - 01:24:02.779

a group of, ah, conservationists of which I happen to be one, and, ah, has worked out to be infinitely better than anybody had the, the slightest hope of, of expecting just because of the sort of public outcry that came at his nomination that came here. Ah,

01:24:02.790 - 01:24:24.250

this may be a, a total optimism but I, ah, I certainly hope that this may be the case. Thank you very much. Doctor. Listen, you have a con, I, I think that the, the discussion that's proceeded so far tonight, ah, reflects, reflects as an example, the

01:24:24.259 - 01:24:49.100

damage that's been done by the action of the board. I'd like to say a word or two about the practice of a professional academic. Uh, there's a, there's a common belief that, that academics is an ivory tower and that the real competition occurs in the business

01:24:49.109 - 01:25:06.370

world where one sells and buys and one is measured on one's successes. There's a sense in which on the other hand, the practice of professional academics is the last frontier. When one, when one receives advancement, one receives advancement because his name and his own name has

01:25:06.379 - 01:25:24.129

been on his work. There's an extent to which the community that you practice your trade and gathers around you when times are tough and there's an extent to which your product is joint with the members of your own profession. But when push comes to shove when

01:25:24.140 - 01:25:40.600

it's all final, um it's your name on the work you've done and you and you alone are measured on your own quality. Uh When I was 17, I went to my first commencement. A Caltech I had as a, as a, as a shiny young freshman with

01:25:40.609 - 01:25:54.899

my nose pressed against the glass. And when they handed out the phd S Lee Du Bridge who's now scientific advisor to President Nixon would say to each man, he'd say I welcome you to the company of scholars. And my, my throat always choked up when he

01:25:54.910 - 01:26:11.830

said that. And, and, uh I always felt that universities were, were a community of peers and, and, and the board has torn that the board has torn that in a very fundamental way. It has torn that notion of a, of a, of a community of, of

01:26:11.839 - 01:26:33.669

equal and distinct individuals all engaged in some uh highly human and uh highly moral endeavor. The board is torn that in a way that uh is, is going to run deep and long uh a rent that's gonna run deep and long in, in the future. History

01:26:33.680 - 01:26:50.629

of Rice University. Do you think that this will have any adverse effects on say faculty recruiting or uh I, I've been told that Doctor Pitzer by his very uh stature attracted a lot of uh good scientists anyway, to the university. Do you think Doctor Masterson being

01:26:50.640 - 01:27:05.180

president will have? I, I don't think the major problem is gonna be faculty recruiting. I think the major problem is gonna be faculty retention. No, that's, that's what we're trying to get out. Do you, do you honestly believe that that uh that there are some faculty

01:27:05.189 - 01:27:20.379

that will leave because of that. The board believe this. I, I found in my, my going on three years at Rice, I, I found a AAA great and a happy home here. And I've loved my time here. I could have gone to schools whose names are

01:27:20.390 - 01:27:39.720

ringing lights already. And I didn't because it was smaller and it was more creative and it was a bit more beautiful. That's why most students are here too. Ah, and, ah, ah, I'm seriously afraid that that's going to change. Ah, Doctor Rudy and Doctor Clayton too.

01:27:39.729 - 01:27:52.759

I'll ask Doctor Rudy first. Ah, since you're both ses, do you think this will have any effect on the, ah, se character of Rice or on the recruitment or faculty retention of, you know, in your fields? Well, I think it will have a, a very drastic

01:27:52.770 - 01:28:05.799

effect on recruitment. I think I can only speak for my own case. Ah, when I was looking around for a job, when I got out at grad school at Stanford, ah, rice was sort of a, ah, a bizarre selection. Ah, it was, ah, you know, it

01:28:05.810 - 01:28:17.709

was sort of, ah, I sort of went here because, ah, well, gee, golly, you've got Kenneth Pitzer as president and big things are probably gonna happen. And, ah, and we had, in my own personal case, I had the opportunity to work directly for Franz Rason, who

01:28:17.720 - 01:28:31.729

was unfortunately sort of trampled in this, ah, personally, as well as for the faculty in this. And, and I think these, these sort of things will make it, ah, very difficult to it, to attract people of the, of the really the first magnitude that, ah, pitcher's

01:28:31.740 - 01:28:47.740

reputation allowed us to operate with. Thank you. Well, I certainly feel exactly the same way. I think there's no doubt but what it could have potentially a very big influence on, on the faculty that Rice can both hold and attract. Uh, uh, for instance, in my

01:28:47.750 - 01:29:01.919

case, I came here when, as a Space science department member, when the department was started, this was, this was a grand adventure and we've had a very difficult time in trying to uh to uh conceive of, of grand programs that really made a difference to human

01:29:01.930 - 01:29:17.919

knowledge. Now, that was our objective. Uh This is a difficult uh a difficult objective to pursue. It's one that, that really cannot like any really great objective be pursued half heartedly. And I'm not really talking about dollars here. I'm talking about doing the things that make

01:29:17.930 - 01:29:33.540

a difference in the international intellectual community or whether or whether you're going to try to uh uh to uh content yourself to uh uh to do the things that uh that uh are more out of the textbooks if you will uh the things that uh that

01:29:33.549 - 01:29:47.529

you can effectively teach as an effective teacher because there's a good textbook in the subject uh and so forth. And as far as science engineering is concerned, I really don't know what to say except that I read in the paper tonight that uh that there was

01:29:47.540 - 01:30:05.180

uh some statement uh involving Masterson about uh about a reemphasis on human values and truth and morality and, and motherhood and, and a variety of things they ran on and on. And the implications seem to be that scientists ignore those whereas the humanities are the real

01:30:05.189 - 01:30:20.029

salvation of this. And I think this does somewhat of a misrepresentation to, to both humanities and to uh and to the scientific community uh both at Rice and at its very best throughout the world. And I'm a little dubious about what the implications of all that

01:30:20.040 - 01:30:36.930

kind of statement really, really is. Thank you, Doctor Clayton Rudy. Well, I was really amazed to see these statements in the chronicle about this, the sta status of the humanities. Uh It's was noteworthy, I think again, this is the, there was no real factions on the

01:30:36.939 - 01:30:51.729

faculty at the, at the crucial votes this afternoon. I think it was uh fairly, it was very broad based. But I think, and this is again, just my opinion, I think the opinions were much more violently opposed in the humanities than they were in the sciences.

01:30:52.279 - 01:31:07.830

I think this is the Doctor Masterson. I, I who signed the uh the petition is that not correct? I think that may have been a geographical problem of where it started and, and the times involved. But I think in the uh there were whole departments which

01:31:07.839 - 01:31:22.350

did not sign it just because I think they were never, never had the opportunity. We realized it was strange and beautiful and we saw such a, uh, a concerted effort rise up out of sheer nothingness and show so short a period of time. I mean, this

01:31:22.359 - 01:31:42.759

is also true of, of the, uh, the student, uh, effort that came about on behalf of it. Well, I think the, I, I sense definitely that the, the in most intense feelings are in the departments with which, ah, Doctor Masterson was most closely associated when he

01:31:42.770 - 01:31:56.859

was here before and which necessarily, ah, he will probably, ah, feel the most expert in, ah, in the future. I mean, clearly, ah, ah, given that he was president of all the university, ah, Mr Pitzer probably knew a great deal more of what was going on

01:31:56.870 - 01:32:11.040

in the chemistry department than the other one, but he was not at all parochial or provincial. And he's, let me interrupt you for a moment to, to satisfy our obligations to Uncle Sugar. This is Kowlr Radio in Houston, Texas operating at 590 Kloh Hertz, um, on,

01:32:11.049 - 01:32:28.049

uh, on the same issue. Does the fact that especially so many of the people in the humanities were so violently opposed to Doctor Masterson, is that based on the man himself or the fact that he was a history professor? In other words, would the faculty be

01:32:28.060 - 01:32:44.729

willing to accept, uh, a well known, you know, notable social science, social scientist. There's not any doubt that the faculty would be willing to accept a notable person in any field of intellectual endeavor who had the willingness and the talents to be a good president. I

01:32:44.740 - 01:32:58.504

don't think there's anything at all having to do with Masterson's role as a historian involved here. Some of the objections to him perhaps uh by, by individual members who are not here and I won't try to name them in, in various departments of history, uh uh

01:32:58.515 - 01:33:10.834

uh English and so forth, uh grow out of the kinds of things that, that happen, interactions between people and they have their own objections to him, which they'd have to state. Uh But uh to the larger question, I don't think there can be any doubt of

01:33:10.845 - 01:33:29.279

the answer. Doctor uh reed. I know you have objections to Doctor Masterson personally. Would you as a biologist have uh any objections to notable social scientist being president of Wright? Uh Absolutely none. If uh the uh social scientist or a person in the humanities is a

01:33:29.290 - 01:33:46.209

man of perspective, that is, if he is a man who understands that a university is a university which deals with knowledge in the broad sense that, that science and engineering and uh the areas of the humanities uh have some kind of, uh well, I won't say

01:33:46.220 - 01:34:03.859

equal weight but uh that they have uh a normal distribution of weight with respect to, to knowledge. Uh There, I think I have some serious personal questions which uh in part may be colored by my own personal feelings. Uh I'll admit as to whether this particular

01:34:03.870 - 01:34:19.004

candidate has the qualifications to make these kind of value judgments. Now, we have a great many people, of course, in uh university situations in the United States who do have proven capacities to make these kind of value, Judd. Now, I I was very impressed, for example,

01:34:19.015 - 01:34:35.645

in meeting the, the Dean of uh the Art and Science uh College at uh Harvard University who could uh deal uh knowledgeably with me when I talked to him about uh various problems with respect to biology, with respect, respect to problems in physics. Uh And uh

01:34:35.654 - 01:34:50.810

we, there are people I think who have the capacity to do this. Uh I don't have any prejudices whatsoever with respect to the field of a man who might be chosen to be president because I think, you know, uh a scholar of perspective is a scholar

01:34:50.819 - 01:35:09.720

perspective uh without respect to what his field may be. Thank you, Doctor Rudy. Well, I've in my five years here, which is not terribly long, but I, during this period, I've sensed that the, when I first came here, there was a, a definitely depression, not a

01:35:09.729 - 01:35:21.040

chasm, but a depression in the road rang in front of the chemistry department. And that there was a certain sense of animosity between the faculty and there was a bit of an us against the attitude between the ses and the academ and I feel that this

01:35:21.049 - 01:35:32.830

gap has been largely healed. I, I think it has been in the last couple of years, a, a totally good issue. I think there's been a real sense of, of, of community among the faculty members. And that uh uh there has been a probably a great

01:35:32.839 - 01:35:46.560

deal of bending and interaction on both sides and that this was uh well on the way to disappearing. And I was very disturbed to see these old wounds reopen. And that perhaps uh one of the, the attractive features of walking out of that building this afternoon.

01:35:46.569 - 01:36:00.609

Also to me, as a student was seeing a great number of, well, I shall we say a completely homogeneous group of students there, both ses academics, architects and anyone else. And this is something that I had never seen in my career here at Rice. I, I

01:36:00.620 - 01:36:14.490

can say I, I was at Weiss College tonight when they had their vote. And uh I have never, I've hardly ever been in a, a body uh trying to decide on an important issue where there is a degree of, of homogeneity and uh unanimity among the

01:36:14.500 - 01:36:32.509

students and the faculty members in attendance. I must say Dr Nissen uh from another point of view, shall we hear it from the uh the humanitarian side of our faculty member here? They decide, oh, excuse me, economics, the science. I'm a mathematical economist. I worry about

01:36:32.520 - 01:37:08.930

partial differential equations a lot. But uh we were there and right now on the telephone we have with us, Doctor Clark Reed who is going to discuss today's events and his opinions with us. Ok. Hello, Doctor Doctor Ray. Hello. Hello, John. Doctor Eve. Ok. You ok.

01:37:09.020 - 01:37:26.299

Take it, Dan, one of the questions here uh that comes to mind if you look at what's going on on the public media. Uh they're not covering the faculty student opinion in this at all. And uh I just talked to one of the people at one

01:37:26.310 - 01:37:40.569

of the television stations and they had pointed out that, that, do you remember what that was, by the way, just for you, which gave a very bad coverage, right? Uh And the reason is, of course, they said, well, no one on the faculty uh student uh

01:37:40.580 - 01:37:54.790

side or with the faculty student viewpoint had asked them to, to give uh to uh uh accept a statement or to uh hold an interview or anything of this sort. And they were quite prepared and anxious as a matter of fact, for someone representing faculty student

01:37:54.799 - 01:38:08.509

viewpoint to come forward and uh and uh talk to them. I was, that was why I was hoping Mr Scarron might be, you know, interested in doing this. Doctor Reed right now. Uh Warren is in, in meeting as far as we know right now, he is

01:38:08.520 - 01:38:23.129

still in meeting with Doctor Masterson and he has promised us a statement as soon as the meeting terminates uh concerning what was accomplished uh in the meeting with Doctor Masterson and exactly what action the students can plan. We have been waiting to see, we were told

01:38:23.140 - 01:38:35.620

that the meeting was going to take place. Uh Some, well, it was implied that it would start about seven o'clock. We found out later on that the meeting did not begin until 10 o'clock. This was after the break at six, it had gone on all afternoon,

01:38:35.629 - 01:38:49.669

broken at six and then they had a four hour break till 10 o'clock. So we've been waiting the associated press and uh up, I are both standing by waiting for stories from us and we've been waiting for stories from the association, the Student Association concerning the

01:38:49.680 - 01:39:04.439

meeting. And, uh I think the news media will cooper with us if, if we can get them the material. I, I think, I think they, I'm sure they are because in the last 10 minutes, I've received phone calls from two of the uh commercial stations here

01:39:04.450 - 01:39:16.520

in town and they want to know, you know, we're the student station. They want to know what we know and, and uh I think that, I don't think that the public media are doing it maliciously. I think though, that our uh presenting of our viewpoint on

01:39:16.529 - 01:39:31.040

it has not been uh adequate uh because, uh, you know, uh they said they have said that they would come to a press conference or anything of this sort. And the, the public media generally depend on being called. And of course, the administration has a public

01:39:31.049 - 01:39:45.680

relations apparatus that knows this quite well. And uh I think that as a consequence, they, their side of the story has been handled much more skillfully than who do you think we could contact in, in uh making an effort to set up a press conference of

01:39:45.689 - 01:40:01.350

some sort who would be perhaps news director at, at any of these, at all three of the major channels here. We've got the news directors. I mean, in terms of faculty, we, we, we, we've got the capability to get the reporters and news directors out here.

01:40:01.359 - 01:40:18.160

But, you know, what do we do if we, I think people who would give a reasoned, uh, uh, appearance and who, you know, would present a reason to story would be someone like, uh, Doctor Rath in the history department. Uh, Doctor Salzburg, who, uh, he's also

01:40:18.169 - 01:40:36.089

a member of that committee. Uh, these are, these are two men that come to mind. They're both, uh, men of stature in the university and, uh, also not, not, uh, prone to go off half cocked on things. They don't have any reputation as radical or anything

01:40:36.100 - 01:40:47.930

of this sort, you know. Well, I think that's definitely what we need. I think what we'll do, Doctor Raid is we'll open the lines up here at Kowl if any faculty members are listening and they would like to comment on what has been happening here at

01:40:47.939 - 01:41:05.990

rise. What they think will happen in the future? Uh What they think the effect of this will be, give us a call at 1263 or 1264 extension 1263 or 1264. Thank you very much for the interview. This is speaking with doctor right now. We're talking with

01:41:06.000 - 01:41:20.729

President of the Student Association here at Rice University Warren, Karen Warren, what do you have for us? Well, Jim just very, very pleased with the meeting. I just uh got out of with Dean Gordon and uh several faculty members who are many of them were uh

01:41:20.799 - 01:41:39.229

chairing apartments. And I'm very pleased to reflect that, that the unity that we've been saying we started out with is very much very new about the whole thing. Uh but it's uh we're all together, believe me there. Uh We're organizing faculty uh response to the whole

01:41:39.240 - 01:41:57.645

situation along parallel lines. And along this line, I'd like to read a statement is released uh jointly between Dean William Gordon and myself uh to students and faculty. We feel an imperative to accurately assess the concern of both faculty and students. With regard to the recent

01:41:57.654 - 01:42:12.779

appointment of Doctor William Masterson as president of Rice University to implement this assessment. We propose to survey both faculty and students on the following two issues. Number one, the procedure used in selection. And number two, the choice made by the board of trustees, we further feel

01:42:12.790 - 01:42:27.299

a responsibility to reflect the results to the board of trustees at the earliest possible time. Uh, there'll be a second directive from myself to the college presidents, uh, who I'm supposed to be meeting with right now and we'll, uh, ask them to carry out this procedure.

01:42:27.310 - 01:42:38.350

And I'd like to have all these things done by about, uh, three tomorrow afternoon and try to get a straw poll of all the colleges. And we're going to Dean Jordan and I are going to see the members of the board of trustees as soon as

01:42:38.359 - 01:42:49.890

possible after that as we can. In other words, one of the purposes of the college meetings tonight is to poll the students, right? Uh Not really, I don't think it's, it's, uh, in order to get that done tonight, I think that we will have to be

01:42:49.899 - 01:43:01.220

organized tomorrow. The students will be polled tomorrow. How will this be accomplished if you've gotten that far? And, uh, I, like I said, I have to meet with the college presidents uh, five minutes ago and begin discussion on. Exactly. I don't think it's too hard to

01:43:01.229 - 01:43:18.540

work out. Ok, Warren, thank you very much. Ok, ladies and gentlemen, you heard it first on Kowl Warren, the president of the students at Rice University, making exclusive comment, the Kowl Lon Del Rio in the news terminal. We have with us right now. Father John Worrell

01:43:18.549 - 01:43:33.319

of the joint Christian ministry at Rice University. Father Royal. I understand there was a meeting this afternoon of your body. Yes, we had a uh press conference around three and uh I have here a copy of our release to news media. I'll just read a few

01:43:33.330 - 01:43:49.410

excerpts from it. Uh We are a clergyman assigned by our respective churches to campus ministry. We work together as the joint Christian ministry at Rice University. And then there follows the discussion of the issues on the campus right now. And then we say the faculty and

01:43:49.419 - 01:44:05.089

students have expressed their indignation at the board's failure to follow the procedures of consultation which it had itself provided, neither faculty nor students are trying to run the university, but they do desire to have a voice in the board's decision because we are confident of the

01:44:05.100 - 01:44:22.709

ability of faculty and students to promote the university's welfare. We are most anxious for trusting conversations and continued openness by everyone affected by appointments and policies. We've seen the fruits of open dialogue in the past. This careful respectful exchange must continue. We're concerned that this momentum

01:44:22.720 - 01:44:37.060

might be diminished or undone precisely because of the manner in which the board of trustees acted, which may indicate the kind of person and administrative policies they desire, even though these would be at variance with what we consider the healthy tenor of the vice community. We

01:44:37.069 - 01:44:53.680

think the board's selection should be rescinded and that everyone affected by the presidential appointment use the established channels of consultation to discuss the manner of the appointment. Therefore, we've sent a telegram to the Board of trustees recommending the following actions the immediately attending of the appointment,

01:44:53.689 - 01:45:12.490

a reaffirmation of the integrity previously established with the advisory committee. The assurance that in future nominations will be made in consultation with this committee. Uh This statement was issued in the name of the six chaplains uh assigned to Rice University, the Reverend Gerald, the pair, the

01:45:12.500 - 01:45:31.870

Reverend Michael Murphy 11, Glenn Poland 11, Phillip Stephen 11, Kenneth Vox and 11, John roll the commitment then from the young Christian ministry that is definitely completely uh united in this to the statement. In other words, uh everyone did find it equally and felt that it

01:45:32.029 - 01:45:46.890

was actually necessary. We composed it together and find it all together and it was released to the press. He said earlier this afternoon at three o'clock. Well, it looks like the ice uh pulling together from, from all portions and uh I hope this isn't too reverent,

01:45:46.899 - 01:46:17.399

but as Bob Dylan said with God on our side, uh I think we're on the way, forgive me for that. Uh Well, I have a joint Christian minister for being with us and releasing that press release to faculty as a representative

01:46:17.609 - 01:46:35.540

to make uh you know, some sort of statement one, you know, they're in contact with one they know exactly what, who feels and how he's representing them. But there's still a little hazy on, you know, on the faculty. You, you are serving as the faculty representative

01:46:36.020 - 01:46:49.640

and it would be, we think anyway. And one seems to agree with us that a statement from you that we can broadcast to the students with, they, they, you, you don't have it. I made a statement last night at the college, which I got it. You

01:46:49.649 - 01:47:21.029

don't have, uh, we've got, uh, of that now we've got one that really coming into the, I think we heard it and, uh, uh, hold on, let me see if I can find a copy. I don't really remember what I made a statement at graduate. We've

01:47:21.040 - 01:47:42.890

heard, we've heard somebody heard it. Ok. Uh, one would like to speak to you. Uh, except that it's probably, it is important that looking around here that we, you know, that we, uh, at this point in time kind of report the, you know, the fact that

01:47:42.899 - 01:48:18.100

we met with them, you think that's out of order on? No, I, I guess it would be all right to, you know. Yeah. And we, and we did our best to convey to them. Yeah. To the star, the degree of concern. Right. Yeah. Some, something like

01:48:18.109 - 01:48:57.009

that. How about, I think as long as we don't have to go into any, there's hardly any detail. Well, I, it looks like that and we put it off with one always like me mo or oh to do next, you know, it juxtaposed with a kind

01:48:57.020 - 01:49:15.279

of a beating of the why they been putting out got a good class. Uh The students are really kind of losing and they made me feel bad. I feel like we're getting a little fatalistic here and we need something to uh Yeah. No. Can that be?

01:49:24.830 - 01:49:38.250

Well, I think we can do that as long as, but you got to remember that this isn't gonna be said right following our meeting with those two gentlemen and there will be an influence gone. Is that gonna be all right? I mean that, you know, that's

01:49:38.259 - 01:49:57.580

fine with me. What are we gonna say something like, you know, we, we together, we representing students and faculty, we reflected, we brought to the 22 members of the board. So we name them not if you not, if you don't have to. I I'm, I'm really,

01:49:58.350 - 01:50:26.959

I understand the difficulty is that we name them. They're gonna be, this is, but the fact they're coming, we were we met with the members on board and gave him and then we move out to the I Yeah, definitely problem. You just planning it. Yes. Release

01:50:26.970 - 01:51:31.310

it as soon as possible and we could do something like that. They left out, we, you're really coming out, leave it down again. Leave no, within an account of the fact that we did this thing, you know, we met, met with these people,

01:51:31.319 - 01:51:43.649

these two men and what we tried to do was to convey the de, you know, accurately the de the concern and try to, you know, seek some, some basis in which we can meaningfully participate in this dialogue with the, with the Board of trustees on the

01:51:43.660 - 01:52:18.450

problem. And that we continue to feel case of faculty and students and especially in an intelligent dialogue of the club and presenting alternatives. Somebody said that I I you have it written down now. If you have money, you write it down and call me back. What

01:52:18.459 - 01:52:59.790

do you, what, what do you think? Like half an hour the results of the student faculty survey to representatives of the border of custos this evening, we, we try to reflect an accurate assessment situation as it stands today. Yeah, they recognize the level of concern. Yeah,

01:53:02.540 - 01:53:34.160

and the urgency and the button. Glad to have you with us. I'm there now at kowl. I'm good to receive your call. You understood. You did attend this afternoon, American Association of University professors. If you could fill us in on some more of the information about

01:53:34.169 - 01:54:04.660

what it took there, we would appreciate it. Well, you probably know that the pastor the I could do in its uh resolution last Friday afternoon, the student body that L and on Friday, good morning. Uh these two are identical and w and these two eu the

01:54:04.770 - 01:54:33.080

two supported them both and not have to loose at the half. That's, uh, I rather losing my kind. Uh, some of the members thought it might be a bit premature. I had a good eye but, uh, none of the primary purposes of the, uh, uh, to,

01:54:33.089 - 01:54:59.950

uh, to protect the profession against, uh, this kind of disregard of uh due process and, uh, that we would really be derelict in our duty. I got on the face if we didn't, uh, express our support of the faculty and students at the earliest opportunity. Well,

01:54:59.959 - 01:55:24.720

there wasn't really much, uh, question because when the, when the matter was put to vote, it was almost, uh, unanimous. I think maybe there was really only one defendant may have been over one or two. You know, I, I couldn't judge. We had, uh, I didn't

01:55:24.729 - 01:55:45.319

count to half because it was more than we usually have really, uh, it still the new and the bel starting the coin head up there were, and there's one long TF then put it across the end of the and running about half way down the other

01:55:45.330 - 01:56:00.399

side and those were there. And then I noticed, uh, a smaller toad that the four down at, uh, one of them and it, uh, it was still some people that came in, uh, started to come in with the, with the plates, uh, after dinner, the bau,

01:56:01.640 - 01:56:27.580

I mean, I couldn't get in our judge there must have been uh between 3042 the action of this passing the revolution be released to the press or has it already been please to the cliff. Yeah, I the next already at Rock, I think from the chronicle

01:56:33.220 - 01:56:47.379

walked in. So how many people were there? My life has just informed me that there must have been more people there than I had indicated from my description of the room, I suppose for I say I didn't come out right there and we, we had one

01:56:47.390 - 01:57:09.200

report that there was going to be a further statement issue from the tomorrow. Do you have any information? No, I don't know what, I don't know what that could do. We uh uh we took another uh we like to do something. We took out some other

01:57:09.209 - 01:57:43.399

business which is to go to the faculty. Uh that no dude that the president is uh referring to God, how do I know who did release that? But I, I thought that this uh the evolution concerning the, I thought that this and that the

01:57:43.410 - 01:57:58.770

board of trustees and one instead and as far as the information I could get and what I could understand from what he said, that was the only question that was the only thing that was going out. I don't know if it was released in the class.

01:57:58.779 - 01:58:20.350

He didn't clarify on that point. Doctor Da You said that you enjoyed a nice symphony this evening? Ah No. How good temperament. But how did you, how did you assess the general situation now? A just right. A t this time. Do you have any recommendations for,

01:58:21.450 - 01:58:42.450

for us? Uh, what we should do while, uh, evidently the, the confrontation between our leaders, the important ones going on, uh, taking place with the board? Well, uh, first I commend you on, uh, doing kind of a cleaning house. We were saying the other day that,

01:58:42.470 - 01:59:11.790

uh they should do such a place. Uh, at that time, I didn't know you were, you were acting in this way and I want to commend you for doing that. Cowlff A AAA good P oh, the general situation. I agree with the greatest, but it certainly

01:59:11.799 - 01:59:49.419

behind that the greatest situation that this university is faith in bog and I've been here 20 years. This is my 25th year. Um Yeah, about fit to, uh, oh, said, I like to take this opportunity of commending the students, not only on the crime of which

01:59:49.439 - 02:00:26.759

they conducted themselves in this class. Ok. I just like to thank the for the inspiration. Uh, that evidently has gone up that you refer to that, uh, the calm morning with one's gun. Not about uh conducting that Newton, which must have been a very difficult one

02:00:26.770 - 02:00:53.149

to conduct on Saturday morning. They did it, we have to go somewhere. I was not impressed with it. I was also impressed with the manner in which call it permanent a, a little bit to evaluate this uh situation. Well, I think that's a four or $5

02:00:53.279 - 02:01:22.450

assessment we had with Doctor Masterson last Sunday evening. Very pleased about it. Seems to me that the evaluation of the, of it was very accurate. Uh I, I would like to go there. Uh The uh the, that some faculty do the food. Uh We got from

02:01:22.459 - 02:01:39.750

the students after the uh we passed our revolution on, on a Friday afternoon, told my wife, I hadn't felt like cut the head off. And I came back from the movie after World War One and World War Two. I'm not quite that old. Uh We just

02:01:39.759 - 02:01:58.109

got to go with my, some of my family, me going around talking and we came out of the building and then I went in the back door to come out a gun, right? We, we have to discontinue the defense do it. And as, as you mentioned,

02:01:58.229 - 02:02:20.529

the joint Christian ministers uh mentioned today the dignity that the entire life community has attempted and apparently succeeded in handling this. And if we bring this off, I felt that, that they do that. I left that entire I that how this man's come to. Absolutely. Well,

02:02:20.540 - 02:02:48.759

we thank the uh a wut for their consideration and support and uh of course, thank you very much for talking to us. And uh this is I'm Stuart West with Kow, all continuing news right now in our studio. I always have one, Stan and uh Kman,

02:02:49.810 - 02:03:07.890

go ahead. One. I um I'm sure that most of the students and faculty know that. Then Jordan and myself presented uh the board of custody with the result for the poll last night. Yeah, I think they better because I'm quite a people that sign me on

02:03:07.899 - 02:03:25.669

campus. Um According to the original, the original plan and the situation, we have to give the border of custody a certain amount of time here to uh to assimilate the information and take whatever action that was needed relevant to that information. I'd like to say that

02:03:25.680 - 02:03:42.819

this morning, the college presidents and myself and the members of the student faculty committed on presidential selection, student members that uh met. Uh that time, you can very clear the action to the various alumni. Uh the h the news media and some interested elements of the

02:03:43.290 - 02:04:03.979

community community are really attempting to discredit the fact that the students by representing their movement as a personal attack on Dr Masterson. I think it's that the representation is completely inaccurate, a position that given the present situation that would be unable to function effectively in our

02:04:03.990 - 02:04:22.819

community. Given that present situation, prominent students in the faculty to keep their position very clear and very firm. I got some announcements. Uh Yeah, in order to handle this C conference, we've had um you know, a great deal of this conference with s on the regular

02:04:22.830 - 02:04:35.569

targets. And in this purpose. And up until this time, we've asked people to call the office and we report mistakes and we've let the, um, the appropriate people know well, to be frank, we didn't actually have a system for that. Whoever happened to answer the phone

02:04:35.580 - 02:04:47.319

was in charge of calling the appropriate people and knowing what was the appropriate thing to tell you was, this is obviously silly. So we actually learned a lesson in San Francisco. So charge in this matter, it turns out what they did was often the faculty was

02:04:47.930 - 02:05:03.140

amount of respect in the community to handle this problem, to let them do the central committee um for informing the classes not this morning. This is about half an hour ago. I called Mr, her husband is in the electrical engineering department and physically to coordinate this

02:05:03.200 - 02:05:20.899

office two and 455 51 and three students that you know, we are by two o'clock or 230. I can tell you that the phone number is the exact arrangements they're making in the. Now they will coordinate all efforts to, to speak to the press about specific

02:05:20.910 - 02:05:33.589

us. We'll give you their phone numbers. If you hear a mistake, you call one of those numbers, only one of those numbers. Uh one person on their committees who will be in charge of communicating with each one of the stations on this purpose. That person will

02:05:33.600 - 02:05:47.259

communicate to the appropriate person at that station exactly what's going on and this is why we hope for people. So, and that all kinds of people won't be calling up, uh, the stations and making the stations losing. I, I've credibility in the meantime, we've got a

02:05:47.270 - 02:06:01.919

few hours, you know, where there is no structure. Uh Please continue to call the office if there is anything we like to have. But we already know about the Chronicle Electron. Don't worry about that. Um Do not under any circumstances, carve the station itself. They flood,

02:06:01.930 - 02:06:15.759

flooded with cars and it makes them mad and makes them angry with us. Also, in the meantime, please, no matter who, you know, or who has told you, it's all right or anything like that. Do not go on the air on any section except to that

02:06:15.899 - 02:06:29.899

request um and announce any, not any statement in the name of the Student Association and most of the top is Ron does in first um man is vice president, you know, the fl and he's kind of coordinating all these super bio efforts. And if we've got

02:06:29.910 - 02:06:42.910

people running around, not actually knowing what anyone else is doing, we're gonna have Children. So if you know somebody and you wanna talk, call up those men at the fa office important though, not, not just for the fact that we go up to one office that

02:06:42.919 - 02:06:54.729

is important, but also we, we've kept a pretty accurate five of the kinds of ways the press can edit and, and change the, the, the sentiment and the feeling of the students. And you got to be very, very careful because if you, if you're not informed

02:06:54.740 - 02:07:11.470

about how they do this, it's very easy to get yourself in a trap. Believe in that. I have one other thing to say with God knows what our person. But last night at Jones, cause, um, uh God's father came to dinner and said that he was

02:07:11.479 - 02:07:26.720

the first personal friend of the boys who expressed the opinion that the boy was Insol apparently in all matters that the students offer that committed. I actually had no power that the protesters are lie that the board never intended them to have any power that in

02:07:26.729 - 02:07:42.669

effect all of their efforts and nonsense. I can know there are some people who are taking this and are attempting to stop all the community's actions that has happened in the last two days by arguing that do that Doctor B Committee that had had no power

02:07:42.680 - 02:07:58.000

in the matter and should never, you know, have even existed. Um I, we can say the truth if you want to know the real truth about this situation. Um There are uh two codes, accounts of the events relevant, got committed, posted in the cards, the copies

02:07:58.009 - 02:08:13.640

of this account and the Student Association office. Please read this account. It as factual as is possible. Not that I personally wrote the film and I really think that it's true and it says the film clearly and without editorializing, please read this before you start arguing

02:08:13.649 - 02:08:30.009

that that so of the committee had no power to begin with. Thank you very much, Juan, do you have anything further to say uh something kind of important to it? And II, I realize that that everyone is, is, is uh uptight about the results of the

02:08:30.020 - 02:08:42.299

poll at this time. And I I ask you to, to help me by understanding that this is a point which we've really got to be strong in the thing and, and, and hold off for, for a certain period of time here until we see if the

02:08:42.310 - 02:08:57.250

board needs what they need and what kind of action they take. So please let's just sit tight on the fence just for a short period of time here, please. Thank you for your support in this whole. Thank you one, ST and K this is the M

02:08:57.259 - 02:09:20.109

Stewart West with Kowl continuing news. This is Bill Thomas and this is in Stewart West right now. We have Doctor Clark Reed for former chairman of the Department of Biology with us. Doctor Reid. One result of the pleasant crisis is now clear. Uh Rice University can

02:09:20.120 - 02:09:41.740

never be the institution of a week ago. It's been changed. Um R the speaker will fear a quantum jump either upward or downward as a community of people learning together. Uh Some now seem to feel that the board of trustees may decide to sweat it out

02:09:42.810 - 02:10:00.689

and they, they might postpone action with the view that uh feelings will cool and, and student enthusiasm will gain away. And indeed this is true, it could be done but that someone should point out that this will not solve the problem for the faculty. Many faculty

02:10:00.700 - 02:10:20.720

members have made their own positions quite untenable under the Masterson presidency. Uh their statements on the issues have now become matters of the public record and it would be quite impossible for a master in administration to render impartial decisions on such matters as promotions and salary

02:10:20.729 - 02:10:40.939

increases and the other uh nitty gritty things which individual faculty members have to be concerned with. I hope that the students as well as more the trustees will be sensitive to this peculiar specific aspect of the present situation because it is now quite different than it

02:10:40.950 - 02:11:03.500

was on Friday on Saturday. Uh And even on Sunday, thank you very much, Doctor and I'm this morning, a committee composed of college presidents, student association representatives and student members of a student faculty committee on presidential select them map. At that time, it became clear about

02:11:03.509 - 02:11:21.520

the recent in the value of alumni, the Hilton Youth media and some interested elements in the Houston community are attempting to give credit the faculty and students of Vice University by representing the movement as a personal attack on doctor, we go to Kow dot Lu terminal

02:11:21.640 - 02:11:34.939

with Bill Thomas Bill. This is Bill Thomas with Miss Bill Kaplan, a member of the uh student Advisory committee on Presidential Selection. Go ahead do uh early in the morning, I made a statement about the accuracy of the an a account of events relevant to the

02:11:34.950 - 02:11:47.100

student faculty committed on presidential selection. For those of you who had questions about whether you know that is actually did have time and I thought it was accurate as far as I knew. But Stewart got worried about that and we decided to check it with a

02:11:47.140 - 02:12:02.654

faculty member of that film committee. So I had Doctor Chapman, Doctor Alan Chapman, who was a member of this, of Doctor Watkins committee read my account, you know, and check it for accuracy. His only comment was that in the second paragraph, the first senate says the

02:12:02.665 - 02:12:15.975

faculty committee decided to add student representatives to their group. Actually, Doctor Chapman says it was the entire faculty in its meeting, establishing the committee that made the decision to add students. Otherwise Doctor Chapman says the account even.