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Shay Olaifa: Hello. Keith Downey: Good morning. [Audio Description: A man wearing round black glasses sits in front of a gray background. He is wearing a blue button-up shirt with a red jacket that reads “Keith Downey, Super Neighborhood, Alliance Vice Chair” on the front left pocket.] Shay Olaifa: My name is Shay Olaifa, and this is Abi Savizon And we're Rice University students and members of the Fondren Fellows program, which is an initiative directed by Rice's Fondren Library, which aims to foster

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research projects centered around the theme of archiving material. Our project is specifically focused on the creosote contamination of Houston's Fifth Ward and Kashmere Gardens. Today I'm here with Keith Doweny: Keith Downey.

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Shay Olaifa: Thank you so much for your time, Keith. We can get straight into the questions. Keith Downey: Sure. I'm happy to do so.

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Shay Olaifa: First, we wanted to ask if you could tell us a bit about yourself and your connection to Kashmere Gardens and Fifth Ward? Keith Downey: Sure. Well, I grew up in Fifth Ward,

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and I grew up in Kashmere Gardens. I am a Kashmere High graduate. I went away to New York City for 27 years.

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I was an architectural designer and a construction project manager for the city of New York. I came home to Houston ten years ago this month, and the community of Kashmere

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Gardens, elected me of their umbrella civic organization, which is the Kashmere Gardens Super Neighborhood Council, number 52 to become their president. And I'm the third president in the long line of 22 years

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of the organization. So I am, very familiar with Houston. Like I said, I was born and raised here.

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When I came back to Houston, I hit the ground running, and I realized so much has changed over time. Different resources that were in the community are no longer there.

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And it's like, you're talking about a renaissance, rebirth, trying to bring resources that you knew were there, but are no longer for

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these younger generations. And I saw so much was happening. For example, You're dealing with people were dying of cancer in Fifth Ward and started hearing about this

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creosote and I couldn't understand why it was so concentrated in this one ground zero cluster area?

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And come to find out, it was in the community where I was originally raised, which I was raised further down in Fifth Ward along the tracks. And I started hearing about environmental groups

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that were addressing, these, these ills of people dying of cancer, unusual cancer, larynx, dealing with esophagus, lung cancer,

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various different breast cancer. And I said, wow. This is this is something that, I need to look into.

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So I was approached by, Mr. Jim Blackburn, who is a professor here at Rice University, and he asked me to be on his board. of Bayou City Initiative.

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And I said, fine. But tell me more. So, long story short, he asked me, he said, what's happening out there with that creosote?

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And people are dying of cancer and everything, and the cancer rate is five times the state average. of deaths. I said, well, the community has been addressing it

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for a decade, and different people have come into the community saying that, you know, they want to help but understand it was never cleaned up.

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The site was only capped. The wood preserving site was only capped. And so the creosote is still there.

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Whenever there's a flood, you have rainbow sheens that run along the curb. He said, well,

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I can do whats called an Intent to Sue. He said, I want to sit down with you and talk to you about this. I said, well, whatever you do, make sure you're transparent

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and you're talking to the community. Those that are affected, those that are, dealing with the various different types of cancer that have lost loved ones.

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He said, okay, yeah, of course, no problem. So he had a meeting in Fifth Ward and he explained this to the participants, that came to this meeting

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and he said, you know, an Intent to Sue is rarely done, if it's ever been done in Houston before. An intent to sue is giving an environmentalist, for example, a 90-day notice to put a plan in place for cleanup.

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or else you will be sued. So he said, you know, we could do this. He was talking to me. We could do this, but we are a small nonprofit organization.

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We would need bigger fish to come to the table. We would need the city and the county. And he said, that's not easy to do. And whomever else, maybe at the federal level.

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And I said, well, go for it. But make sure whatever you do, be transparent. So He reached out

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to environmental lawyers. He reached out to other entities and turned the city of Houston. Came on board. The county came on board.

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I happened to be at a Brownsfield conference. In Oklahoma City. And I was meeting with the EPA administrator

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for region six, which encompasses this region in Arkansas and Louisiana and Oklahoma and New Mexico and other areas. Dr. Erthea Nance, who she

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helped during Katrina. She was a professor at Texas Southern University, and she had been, chosen by administrator Regan

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as the EPA to head region six. So we were there in Oklahoma City, and she said We are keeping an eye on what's happening there

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with the creosote. We are not coming on board right now, but we're keeping a close eye on what's going on. We understand there is an Intent to Sue

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with Bayou City Initiative. The community, The county, and the city for cleanup. She said we are more than likely

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are going to jump on board. In turn It took about a year. But the EPA got involved.

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Well they are at the federal level. So now they're going to lead the charge for cleanup with a plan. She said,

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I don't like the fact that it's taking too long to come up with a plan. And to this day, they're at the table negotiating. As you may have heard, testing is taking place.

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Some of the conclusions are now being shared to the community. While we were in Oklahoma City, A report came out in Houston

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that reached our ears and our cell phones that said they had found dioxin and other environmental hazards had been put on the site, stored on the site underground, buried.

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And we were like, we were quite alarmed. Of course, but it was like, now another thing is another layer of environmental injustice.

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And understand this is a Union Pacific site that used to be, of course, Southern Pacific. Many of the residents that live there now,

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their fathers used to work there. They used to work there. Quite a few of the residents have died from cancer.

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And as I stated before, it's never been cleaned up. The underground plume is slowly has been traced

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to be in a northerly northeasterly direction toward Kashmere Gardens, but it's a slow mover. It's still in Fifth Ward. Fifth Ward is ground zero

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and you'll hear a lot about Fifth Ward Kashmere Gardens. Sometimes you hear Denver Harbor, the community to the east, but Fifth Ward is ground zero for this contamination.

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I'll back you up on something else that I was part of. I was on a call. I had been selected to be on a call with state health, the state health department.

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And they asked the question. Can we do epidemiology study on the area That has been deemed the cancer cluster?

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And I'm going to talk about how did we get there as a cancer cluster. And the question came out from doctors at the state,

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the medical center. The question was, Have you ever studied the death rate of children and young adults in the area?

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And the answer was no. Immediately. The health care professionals said, then we can't do an epidemiology study.

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You might have a second cancer cluster Because you need to take a look at that population and children are dying of cancer as well. In turn, you now have two.

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A lot of people don't realize it, but there are actually two cancer clusters In that location. Now, the one thing that had been going on for decades, and now I'm back backing up,

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yes, that was ground zero, a wood preserving site. And a lot of people ask, what is creosote? Well, when you see telephone

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poles with the black tar and the cross tires on the on the railroad tracks coated in black, that's creosote. It's preserving the wood from termites, from different types of insects, what have you.

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It preserves it from the weather, So it's it makes it longer-lasting. Of course, Perserving it.

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And in Fifth Ward, not only was that the location, but there were other locations

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in Fifth Ward where they were storing it After they would treat it. You take the pile and you stockpile this over here,

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and you stockpile that over there. So it was dotted throughout the community of Fifth Ward, and some in Kashmere Gardens too.

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Because where ground zero is, it's not that far away from the borderline of Kashmere and Trinity Garden itself. Blocks away. And You'll find that

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more than likely, there's contamination in various areas. And how did we get here? Quite a bit of your industry

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in the city of Houston is on your east side. Well, just like today, people work close to where they live. So you're talking about Clinton Park,

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Pleasantville, the ship channel right there. You talk about Fifth Ward, and quite a bit of your industry was along Clinton Drive in Houston.

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It was so much industry that was the economic engine for this city of Houston to get it where it is today. Long before,

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a lot of these tech companies came along. Now, it was always oil and gas. So you had your refineries along the ship channel, the ship the oil out and store

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The byproducts, and what have you, of oil. But a lot of your black and brown lived around these areas. And to this day.

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And people say, well, why don't people move? Where can they move to? Who's asking them? Those who make that statement,

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Are they moving? The air that you breathe. I breathe. Air doesn't say

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I'm breathing for the poor. I'm breathing for the affluent. We all breathe the same air. But when you're taking it straight into

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your body and your lungs, it may have an ill effect. I remember some of the leaders in Fifth Ward when I came back to Houston

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like Miss Kathy Blueford Daniels, Reverend Caldwell, who you all will be interviewing, and others. They reached out to Congresswoman

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Sheila Jackson Lee. She brought the state health department and other specialists on the subject,

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health care professionals and all that to take a look at what's happening out there In the environment. And

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there was a meeting at Wheatley High School. I'll never forget it. There were a thousand people in the room. And Erin Brockovitch

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was the speaker. And she told the community, she said, I want to ask you a question.

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Everyone in this room who has had someone pass away of cancer or has cancer themselves. Raise your hand. A thousand hands went up.

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Simultaneously, That was occurring, Union Pacific was putting out a statement in the media. There's no proof that we- our

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site causes cancer. She told the crowd, Erin Brockovich that is, told the crowd: fight.

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You have to stand and fight for what's right. And many in our community are continuing that fight.

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Now we have the testing that is taking place. Of course, industry in America has a history of plausible deniability, especially with minority communities.

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Prove it. What I love about this era that I live in right now, it's different than my ancestors. They lived on theory.

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Their theories, a lot of times were not wrong but they had no data. Now we have proof. We have data

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we can share. And I always say plop it on the podium, or on the table. This is my proof.

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People are dying and they're dying at alarming rates. Understand I live in a toxic environment.

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Right now I have a lawsuit in with the state. We have LBJ hospital, one of two county hospitals. Ben Taub

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and LBJ. LBJ is in Kashmere Gardens. Right now they're building a 12-story hospital.

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The bond passed from the county by 72% of the votes. As soon as that was about to be going into the ability for people to vote on that bond,

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I got a call That an entity wants to come in to Kashmere Gardens and build a rock crushing facility

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almost across the street from the hospital. Texas Coastal Materials LLC. Well, understand this was alarming. I happened to be at a meeting at LBJ hospital when I got this over my phone.

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And I immediately told the administration at the hospital, look at what I'm looking at. And there were other community leaders there. And they said, what?

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Understand. Northeast Houston has six, currently six concrete batch plans in the area. So we're talking about PM2s.

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We're talking about the fine particles that we can't see But we breathe right? We're talking about a community that, and I'm talking about Fifth Ward, Kashmere, Settegast, and Trinity

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Garden, and North and East. Many residents already suffering from high blood pressure, strokes, asthma. I'm an asthmatic, right?

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Heart attack, dying of cancer. Chronic illnesses, Right?

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And now you're talking about a rock crushing facility. Once you hear that a hospital is going under construction. Well, as I said the other day on a panel

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for Harris Health, one and one equals two. Why are you coming into our community with a rock crushing facility?

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Our air is already, according to data, We are already at EPA levels as far as fine particles in our air. We're at our limit.

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And this is based on monitors, reading data from monitors that are stationed here and there. So I started looking into this operation.

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Where are you located? They're located in the southeast corner of the city, more toward Clear Lake.

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You passing up a lot of communities to make a dollar to come into our community. Why are you coming? Again

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Congresswoman, The late congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, She said, do you want a meeting in the community?

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I said, you better believe it. State Senator Borris Miles got on board. Harold Dutton got on board as a representative, the

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State representative of our area. We chose the location in the community right down the street. Same street of the LBJ hospital, at a church.

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I'll never forget two questions TCEQ asked me, or they got word to me about, They didn't ask me directly. They kind of didn't want to have it in the community.

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They wanted the audience to be controlled. And they tried to go and bring that issue of church and state.

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I said, neither one we're not baptizing tonight. Right. And The meeting took place.

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It was in an auditorium of a church. Elected officials were there. The community was there. People were outraged.

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Of course, Harris Health was on board. We'd already had press conferences at the hospital. And the community leader I work with daily

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in Trinity Houston Garden. Miss Huey German Wilson asked a question that night. I'll never forget it.

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It was quite poignant. She asked, let me set it up. You had TCEQ sitting at a table over here,

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Members of state, You had Texas Coastal Materials LLC, here in the audience here. She said- she turned to TCEQ.

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She said, I have a question. Who's your boss? And they looked at each other at the table. What does she man, who's our boss?

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She said, who's your boss? Who pays your salary? She said, we pay your salary. The people, the taxpayer.

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She said, let me get this straight. They're asking for an air permit For a rock crushing facility. You are our boss.

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You mean I'm paying you to give them a permit to poison me? She said That just doesn't make sense to me.

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Long story short, there were 2600 comments from the county in Harris County- residents, elected officials. Even the district attorney at the time

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was at my community meeting said, I'm an asthmatic too. 2600 comments. The state granted them a permit anyway.

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We always, always have a plan B, look for Plan A to not go the way you want it to, A lot of times when you're black and brown. Plan B is what we kicked into effect.

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Super Neighborhood 48, and Trinity Houston Garden. Super Neighborhood 52, and Kashmere Gardens,

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And the County Attorney Are suing the state for discrimination to rescind the permit that was granted. And we're asking the head of TCEQ

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Now, will we be successful? We don't know but we have to do Something. So now it's in the hands of a judge.

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He's having to review all 2600 comments. And any week now, I would say any day now. But it doesn't happen that fast any week, now,

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it's been it's been months. We should get an answer from the judge because he has to look at all of those comments. My point of pointing out both of those situations with the creosote

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and with the rock crushing. No one knows your community like you. No one knows the people like you do. No one is going through life

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in survival mode like you are. You know your needs and you have to fight for those needs no matter what. And no matter who pushes back against you. And that's what I've learned as I've gotten older.

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I mean, when I was 20-something or whatever, I heard about it, it wasn't my problem at the time, But I was concerned because I was brought up to be concerned. But now I'm having to face it

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head on because I'm the one getting the phone calls from residents. Mr. Downey, I got a call yesterday. Who was the state reps- Representative at your meeting?

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I need to talk to him. I always say this about community grassroots leaders versus elected officials. And I work with both. I work work with both.

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I work with the clergy. But one thing about a grassroots leader that's never, I think it's undervalued, very undervalued. Grassroots leaders is very important.

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A politician doesn't ever have to be right. But a grassroots leader can never be wrong. When we say something, people depend on that.

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And people will reach out to a grassroots leader before they reach out to an elected official. Why? Because it's a trusted ambassador, a trusted leader in the community.

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And as I've said to elected officials, no one owns the position You were voted into. No one owns a position at their job.

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You don't own it. You are a trustee In that position As a grassroots leader. You are a trustee.

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I'm a trustee. But I didn't own being president. Someone will come along after me. Someone came along before me.

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But what you're trying to do is try to bring a better quality of life for those that are living now and for generations to come. Shay Olaifa: Thank you so much.

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Keith Downey: Thank you. Shay Olaifa: Would you like to take a sip of water before the next question? Wanted to make sure Do you need anything?

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Keith Downey: No. I'm good. I'm good. Shay Olaifa: Perfect Keith Downey: I hope I was able to help you Shay Olaifa: Of course, of course.

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Thank you so much for all your persistent advocacy in Fifth Ward and Kashmere Gardens. Next, I want to ask you if you could please tell me what's so special about Fifth Ward and Kashmere Gardens

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and must this community need so much advocacy? Need the contamination to be known, to be more widespread? What makes your community special? What makes it your home?

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Keith Downey: What makes it my home. Is in my roots. It's in my blood. I left a profession

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as an architect in New York To come home to Houston. Because I grew up here. 27 years up there on the East Coast.

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I enjoyed it, but this is home. This is where I graduated. This is where I go to church.

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This is where I'm around those that know me best. The community has gone through so much. And there are other types of environmental contamination.

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Kashmere Gardens used to have the incinerator for the whole city. At one time. There were other creosote sites.

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dotted at railroad yards and city gas on the backside of Kashmere Gardens, not just in Fifth Ward at one time.

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When I hear that people are dying at alarming rates, And it's where I grew up,

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It's alarming because I was given a sense of value to value people. And I tell people all the time.

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Care about those that don't look like me, Speak like me, Think like me, Or have the resources that I have.

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I may not have a lot, but somebody has less. And we have to understand. They have the right to have a better quality of life.

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And that's why I advocate and I talk community. Whenever I was saying the other day. Anybody who knows me, knows the word community. And someone asked me,

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why do you talk about community so much? I said, because you don't. Someone has to. Shay Olaifa: Thank you so much.

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Keith Downey: Thank you. Shay Olaifa: Okay. On this kind of same vein, can you please tell me what life was like growing up or being a part of Fifth Ward?

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What are some of your favorite memories, whether through music, people, food, or community events that made it truly special? Keith Downey: Easily. Growing up in Fifth Ward.

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Now you're going to bring back memories. I grew up by my grandmother. I'm one of the only people probably left in Houston

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That grew up by wood stoves, not gas. My grandmother had two wood stoves. My father's side of the family

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is originally from Sealy, Texas. And living on Worms Street, just like it sounds. Worms in Raleigh. My grandmother gave me a sense of value.

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I would go to school. We'd go shopping. She didn't have a car at that time. She lost her car because she got older.

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My grandmother took me in at the age of 70 years old. A two-month-old. And raised me till I was 12. And she passed away from diabetes.

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I remember going to church every Sunday. I remember shopping in Wine Gardens before Fiesta out here. There were wine gardens.

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Now they're a reality in Houston. They always have been actually. But Wine Gardens was quality. You didn't have the complaints. You hear about these others.

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Some of these others out here, and they were in everybody's community. And I remember playing

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In a community where we could hear the trains going. Because that was a block away from that Union Pacific track, where the creosote is, but not near ground zero. But I was down from down the line.

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And it was just one of those things. I remember the sounds. And I'm going to tell you some things don't happen now. We called him the Mosquito man.

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There was a truck that actually went around Houston at night, in the summertime, spraying in the air. And he sprayed to kill mosquitoes.

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People didn't ask back then You know, what's what's in the chemicals there, what have you?

00:38:04.610 - 00:38:18.370

We just knew they were spraying for mosquitoes. I remember At school, Atherton Elementary.

00:38:19.460 - 00:38:30.440

Then Houston came up with zoning. You had to go to school close to where you lived. So I started going to school at Pleasant Elementary, which is closer to my house.

00:38:31.390 - 00:38:48.770

And walking to school. So you have memories of growing up. I had always planned to go to Earle Smith, which is,

00:38:48.770 - 00:39:02.000

I think, Mickey Leeland Academy now. And then I would go to Wheatley High School. That was the progression. Well, when my grandmother passed away, I moved into Kashmere Gardens,

00:39:02.840 - 00:39:18.500

and I ended up going to junior high in that area. And then high school and Kashmere High. But I remember the rivalries I would hear as a kid. When you were a child growing up, you couldn't wait to get older.

00:39:19.940 - 00:39:28.540

You couldn't wait to get to high school. You couldn't wait to go to Wheatley. You couldn't wait to go to Kashmere. That was pride.

00:39:28.540 - 00:39:40.220

You looked up to those people that Were in High school when you were younger. And crime was bad, but it wasn't like it is now.

00:39:41.120 - 00:39:58.420

There wasn't a gun anywhere You could look. And you had more of a sense of community. One thing about growing up,

00:39:58.420 - 00:40:13.120

you had the internet before the internet. If I did something around the corner. The word got back to my grandmother before I could run around the corner.

00:40:13.670 - 00:40:25.450

Right? Word of mouth in the minority community beats the internet and will always beat the internet.

00:40:25.450 - 00:40:37.280

And I'll tell you why. Because everybody doesn't have Wi-Fi. And people word of mouth. And I tell people all the time,

00:40:37.280 - 00:40:49.240

when you find and learn information, pass it along to someone else. Especially important information, because you might not be able to use it, but somebody else can.

00:40:49.840 - 00:41:06.530

You never know the lives you might affect. So I remember, I have those memories growing up. And it was it was great because I looked up to adults. Yes, but I looked up to those that were

00:41:07.940 - 00:41:21.410

15, 16, 17 years old. You looked up to them because they were in high school, and I never will forget that. I don't think that level is looked at the same way

00:41:21.590 - 00:41:30.650

today. Shay Olaifa: Thank you so much. Keith Downey: Thank you. Shay Olaifa: It was beautiful hearing about why your home is so special to you.

00:41:31.370 - 00:41:43.030

Keith Downey: Thank you. And it always will be. Times have changed. Now I have seniors that a lot of them are passing away.

00:41:43.810 - 00:41:55.610

But I always try to look out for them As coming back here and be leading a community. I try to make sure you're looking out for seniors. You're looking out for children, you're looking out for single mothers.

00:41:56.390 - 00:42:09.340

But make sure you look out for your seniors because they gave birth to you. And a lot of times, they're alone. No one's looking out for them.

00:42:09.970 - 00:42:19.550

Find out what their needs are and don't assume you know what they are. Shay Olaifa: Thank you so much. Keith Downey: Thank you.

00:42:19.550 - 00:42:36.730

Could you please tell me, what do you think has been the biggest impact of the Creosote Contamination on you? And also the whole community? Keith Downey: It's put it [the community]

00:42:38.050 - 00:42:56.950

in a state of survival. It was already in survival. Sometimes you're going through your daily life and you don't realize

00:42:57.350 - 00:43:03.860

your history- making. You all sitting here doing this interview.

00:43:03.860 - 00:43:15.740

This is history making, but just living life, right? You're doing what you were assigned to do. And you enjoy doing. Someone will come along and study what you did.

00:43:19.540 - 00:43:34.070

And our communities. It's important to understand that as we progress the shocks and stresses

00:43:34.070 - 00:43:46.970

that many faced years ago, we're facing them again in a more advanced state. Life goes in a circle. It just comes back more advanced.

00:43:48.050 - 00:43:59.530

You're not the first one to be diagnosed with something, but now it's happening to you. And what do you do about it?

00:43:59.530 - 00:44:10.790

Only thing you have is you. At the end of the day. And I thank God for the values that I was given

00:44:10.990 - 00:44:21.700

by my grandmother, and my father, that they care about other people. But I see the faces.

00:44:21.920 - 00:44:37.150

They've been beaten. Not physically, but mentally. They've been beaten. They've gone through so much.

00:44:37.150 - 00:44:51.800

They're going through so much. They haven't lost their way. You know, issues come in and out of X, Facebook, or whatever.

00:44:53.470 - 00:45:06.130

But you're living with this daily. The loss of a parent or a loved one will always stay with you. It's a part of you.

00:45:06.130 - 00:45:21.410

But when you're losing your friends and your family, it's a form of PTSD. And as we are all in survival

00:45:21.410 - 00:45:39.350

mode at different levels. And our current administration and your support systems are being taken away. As I spoke about earlier, before we got started. It has to affect

00:45:39.350 - 00:45:58.920

and it will affect your mental health. So many things do happen in society that We must face to survive. But how do we help ourselves

00:45:58.920 - 00:46:16.940

to put on our mask before we put on the mask of someone else? And I see it in the faces of people. How many people were affected by Harvey- were waiting for recovery of their homes or with their lost possessions, and they died

00:46:17.950 - 00:46:29.210

waiting. Many are still waiting. I was on a call with the state yesterday. Many are still waiting.

00:46:30.100 - 00:46:44.180

Especially in the black and brown communities. I had a gentleman yesterday from Port Arthur, Texas, on a call, on a thing for 19 counties along the Gulf Coast for the state GLO.

00:46:44.960 - 00:46:59.230

He said, we're still waiting for recovery. Many of us have died. The ones that are still living are still trying to

00:46:59.890 - 00:47:10.690

Make it. The other nonprofits here are getting the money, but they're not trickling down to us. Same thing happens.

00:47:10.690 - 00:47:21.730

And I've mentioned this, in the black and brown communities in Houston. The city may get the money, but does it trickle to the black and brown communities?

00:47:22.550 - 00:47:35.230

Very seldom does it do that. Anytime, And I've learned this along the way. Anytime money is slated for black and brown communities,

00:47:35.780 - 00:47:49.360

there's always a reason they shouldn't have it. Or if it is slated, allocated for them. The affluent asks the question: What about me?

00:47:50.180 - 00:48:01.540

A lot of the privileged do not realize they are privileged. You could be privileged for so long that you don't realize it.

00:48:01.610 - 00:48:11.950

You're immune to it. And that's what I see in the faces of people. I see that they are battered and beaten,

00:48:12.850 - 00:48:29.680

but they're still trying to get up. The one question I'll never forget after Harvey and some of the people of other cultures came into our communities. The question was,

00:48:31.450 - 00:48:44.180

Hi Mr. Downey I have a question. How do y'all smile? I said, because you can't cry

00:48:44.180 - 00:48:58.580

all the time. Yes. Shay Olaifa: Thank you so Much. Thank you. Please, if you need a moment to drink some water. Take as much time as you need.

00:48:58.580 - 00:49:10.990

Keith Downey: Yeah I do. Shay Olaifa: And let me know when you're ready. Keith Downey: Okay. Yeah.

00:49:10.990 - 00:49:19.030

It's rough sometimes. Shay Olaifa: I really appreciate you being so vulnerable and sharing your story with us. Thank you. Keith Doweny: Thank you.

00:49:19.030 - 00:49:29.140

No, I enjoy doing it. Shay Olaifa: Thank you so much. Keith Downey: Sure Because somebody has to. Somebody has to.

00:49:29.660 - 00:49:39.820

A lot of like you all are doing. This has to be documented. Shay Olaifa; Because if not, then history gets lost Keith Downey: It gets lost.

00:49:39.820 - 00:49:53.080

And when it's sunny out, not today, but when it's sunny out. Everybody's day is not sunny. And we must just understand that.

00:49:54.250 - 00:50:01.960

Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. Ready when you are. Shay Olaifa: Can you please tell me: What do you wish other

00:50:01.960 - 00:50:17.440

people knew about the creosote contamination? Keith Downey: I wish they knew how to have empathy. Not just sympathy. I wish they knew

00:50:17.440 - 00:50:31.460

what people were really going through. People are not just numbers, they're human beings. I wish people knew

00:50:31.460 - 00:50:45.400

that in order for a lot of us, not just the affluent, but a lot of us to be able to go from here to there, to have an SUV, to do this, to do that,

00:50:45.800 - 00:50:58.970

People sacrificed. A lot of times they sacrificed their lives and their livelihoods. Understand. I wish they knew

00:50:58.970 - 00:51:14.420

the storm hit our communities long before the hurricanes arrived. That's what I wish they knew. Shay Olaifa: Thank you so much. Keith Downey: Thank you.

00:51:14.420 - 00:51:26.540

Shay Olaifa: So you talked a bit about the EPA coming into the community and doing some testing? Keith Downey: Yes. Shay Olaifa: Can you please tell me what is your perception of the EPA's response to this contamination?

00:51:26.780 - 00:51:37.670

What is the community's perception? Keith Downey: The community's perception is: Here comes another one. Many have come into the community

00:51:37.670 - 00:52:01.630

before, and When you've been promised something over and over and over and over again,

00:52:03.010 - 00:52:17.290

through politicians, through entities, through agencies, and the promises are unfulfilled. How can I believe the next one?

00:52:17.290 - 00:52:32.360

Why should I believe the next one? You're talking about cleaning up a site that will take the rest of my life to actually clean up. It's that bad.

00:52:34.660 - 00:52:47.410

Now money has been allocated for relocation. The community's skeptical, and rightfully so.

00:52:47.410 - 00:53:00.820

A lot of people can't understand why are they so skeptical? Their buyouts. $5 million is a drop in the bucket in this economy.

00:53:01.760 - 00:53:12.980

And people want to know the details. Now that you're given them data. Give them data. Give them details.

00:53:14.170 - 00:53:29.800

Give them a sense of understanding. Everyone doesn't understand at the same level. Where are the benefits?

00:53:32.770 - 00:53:46.280

One of the things that people must understand. And I think it can hurt a party from being elected

00:53:46.280 - 00:53:58.310

into federal office. You're showing me how you can help the community. But you never showed me How you could help me.

00:54:02.350 - 00:54:12.340

You want me to help the community, to help flood mitigation from the community Flooding.

00:54:12.340 - 00:54:26.240

But you never got water out of my ditch. Life is personal to people. And until you can break it down

00:54:26.720 - 00:54:42.170

so people can understand how they benefit, You're going to run into a stumbling block. And rightfully so. Because we all want a better quality of life for ourselves.

00:54:42.190 - 00:54:54.770

Yes, we can look out for someone else, but I don't want to be eating bologna on the curb with a piece of bread. I like to eat in a restaurant,

00:54:54.770 - 00:55:06.230

so yeah. Shay Olaifa: Thank you so much. Keith Downey: Thank you. So you talked about this need for educating the community and making sure that people know the details and the data about what's going on.

00:55:06.710 - 00:55:23.110

So do you have any questions or clarifications that you'd like to give the EPA, the health department, the people who are running these tests? Keith Downey: Yes. People ask this question to me quite a bit. Entities will ask this question.

00:55:24.230 - 00:55:41.500

How do you reach community By any means necessary? I've gone before city hall, and city council, and the mayor.

00:55:43.370 - 00:55:56.410

And I've asked the question, why do you make one announcement and think everybody heard what that announcement is? You have to keep beating that drum,

00:55:56.830 - 00:56:11.660

announcing to people what you offer. I tell the Houston Public Library. I tell different hospital systems There's a building over there, it's a hospital.

00:56:11.660 - 00:56:24.310

What does it provide? Did you ever tell the people that you have ambulatory care? That you have a food pharmacy? Are they supposed to guess it?

00:56:24.760 - 00:56:36.290

Yes. You may have made an announcement once. Once. It's not enough. Everybody doesn't have Wi-Fi. Everybody wasn't paying attention.

00:56:36.290 - 00:56:49.250

That did Have Wi-Fi. Keep getting that message across. I've gone into churches as a visitor,

00:56:49.580 - 00:56:57.370

and I've had seniors tell me, "We don't do that in Houston." I say, well, I've done it and I've not gotten away with it

00:56:58.040 - 00:57:12.520

because it's nothing to get away with, it's what should be done. Go in and ask the hierarchy there the minister or whomever is in charge. Can I tell you what's happening in the community?

00:57:14.270 - 00:57:25.900

Why don't people do that? Why don't you do things when you're not getting paid? As a community leader, I don't get paid. I've been doing this for ten years.

00:57:25.900 - 00:57:37.880

Every day. I'm not looking to get paid. I've set myself up with my career where I have a retirement.

00:57:39.980 - 00:57:52.360

I do things out of labor of love. And one thing about it, if you're not coming from the heart and what you're doing as a leader, you can't sustain it.

00:57:53.830 - 00:58:10.780

It has its own life. And Not only do I go in churches. This was before the pandemic, and it stopped me from doing so.

00:58:10.780 - 00:58:23.890

But I have my meetings every month. And I have a different type of meeting style. Yes, I'm a servant leader.

00:58:24.880 - 00:58:39.790

I believe in servitude. But I have informational meetings. I'll have as many as many as 11 presenters. Whether it's city agencies,

00:58:39.790 - 00:58:55.420

whether it's nonprofits, or what have you. That's the reason I have a radio program here in Houston called Community Chat on KCOH because you can't get your news from a 15-second soundbite on KTRK.

00:59:00.760 - 00:59:11.960

People need to know what's going on around them. So by any means necessary, whether it's a civic meeting, whether it's going before City Hall,

00:59:12.490 - 00:59:28.090

other county commissioners court, media, social media. A lot of people know me from Facebook. They've known me for about 12, 13,

00:59:28.090 - 00:59:38.530

14 years from Facebook because I only post positive. I only post informational stuff. I let them know, yes, I took care of this. I did that.

00:59:38.530 - 00:59:47.710

But the fact is that I also let them know resources out there. I see more and more people doing so.

00:59:47.710 - 01:00:01.840

You can subliminally change society by keeping doing something, and it's not happening at first and people catch on later. For example.

01:00:01.840 - 01:00:15.490

When I first came back from New York, I met an AP physics teacher, and I was volunteering at Kashmere High, and I was there almost every day.

01:00:16.390 - 01:00:27.350

And the administration said, Mr. Downey, you are here all the time. There's an AP physics teacher here at Kashmere that wants to meet you.

01:00:28.780 - 01:00:38.360

Meet me? Yeah. He wants to meet you because there's something he wants to talk to you about.

01:00:38.360 - 01:00:45.350

He says it's very important. I didn't seek him out. Tell me where he's located. What room is he in?

01:00:45.350 - 01:00:51.940

I knew we'd cross paths. I just knew it. And we did. About a month later,

01:00:51.940 - 01:01:02.380

we happened to turn the corner on the hallway and faced each other and Knew who each other were because nobody else was In the hallway. And he said,

01:01:02.380 - 01:01:15.250

I have a though. I said, Let's talk now. We went in the room. He said, nice to meet you. He said, you know,

01:01:15.250 - 01:01:24.260

I teach physics here. I said, well, I've heard. He said, I'm going to have to leave HISD after three years of teaching.

01:01:25.340 - 01:01:34.150

I said, okay, Where is this going? He said, you know I'm going to have to leave?

01:01:34.150 - 01:01:46.010

He said, I can't teach these kids physics. I said, but you, I know you won an award at City Hall for the best physics. He said, yeah, because that's not the problem.

01:01:47.230 - 01:02:00.410

Physics is not the problem. He said they have so many socioeconomic issues that you didn't have to face

01:02:00.410 - 01:02:15.560

going to school. And he's from Kuwait, And you can look up Adeeb Barqawi. He said, you know, you from here.

01:02:16.610 - 01:02:23.630

He said, I've heard about you. He said, I've been wanting to meet you. I said, Wanting to meet me? He said, yes.

01:02:23.630 - 01:02:37.550

He said, this is what I'm looking to do. He said, I want to open a one-stop shop that will address mental behavior, socio-behavior,

01:02:38.030 - 01:02:53.900

academics. He said, I want to address mental health and all. He said, you are what I can never be.

01:02:55.900 - 01:03:05.270

I said, okay. He said, you're from here. I'll never be from here.

01:03:09.830 - 01:03:21.890

He said, I can do what you can't do. And I said, well, what is that? He said,

01:03:21.890 - 01:03:34.940

I'm a realist. He said, I can talk to the philanthropic world before you can. I can get them to listen.

01:03:36.250 - 01:03:51.370

You can get community to listen before I can. I would like to marry the two together. And open this one-stop shop. I want you to head up the community portion of this.

01:03:53.170 - 01:04:05.030

And I said, okay. So we sat down and we had meetings. He and I mapped out the plan. Always have a plan.

01:04:05.030 - 01:04:15.310

Even in communities. Have a plan. Plan of action. He took me over to,

01:04:15.310 - 01:04:27.170

And I had meetings with him in places I never thought I'd be. Other side of town. One night I met the wife of an oil-

01:04:27.170 - 01:04:37.630

Used to be an oil CEO. He retired. And he used to work in a major oil company. She said, those poor kids in Kashmere,

01:04:39.280 - 01:04:47.360

you know, I'm looking to help them. Tell me, how did this happen? Is it their fault that they're like this? Is it?

01:04:47.360 - 01:05:02.590

What's going on? So I tried to explain it to her. That many kids are homeless. Many kids don't have boots

01:05:03.190 - 01:05:16.320

to pull up Bootstraps. So I got to explaining to her. And Mr. Barqawi said to me,

01:05:16.370 - 01:05:30.200

I need to see you for a second. I'll never forget this. So he said, let me explain to you this. She wants to know that there's a problem.

01:05:30.200 - 01:05:44.300

She does not want to know how or why. He said the philanthropic world and the underserved are two different worlds.

01:05:45.080 - 01:06:00.160

And they're not ready to meet one another. They are far apart. I had meetings. He said, I want you to conduct meetings.

01:06:00.920 - 01:06:11.840

I want you to put together and organize a council of community leaders that would meet. And you you see how often they meet

01:06:11.930 - 01:06:21.470

and where they would go. He said, I'm looking to open up these services to bring service providers in. In Francis Scott Key Middle School

01:06:21.470 - 01:06:34.400

and Kashmere High School. He said the reason I have to leave HISD. One day.

01:06:35.080 - 01:06:47.980

I could hear the kids paasing me, and their stomachs Are growling, they're hungry. But one day a young lady had her head on the desk. And I asked her to lift it up.

01:06:49.550 - 01:06:59.510

And she kept it down, and I asked her to lift it up. She kept it down. I said, sweetheart, what's wrong?

01:06:59.920 - 01:07:13.520

She said, my mother was killed last night. He said, leave your head on the ground- on the desk. He said, at that point I knew

01:07:13.520 - 01:07:30.640

Physics is not the answer for a lot of these children. So he gave me a short list. I didn't know anybody on this list.

01:07:30.640 - 01:07:43.600

Maybe one person. I took the list And I balled it up and threw it away. I sat down with him

01:07:43.600 - 01:07:57.650

and I said, this is what I would like to do. I would like to bring all seven schools of the feeder pattern together. Their principals,

01:07:57.650 - 01:08:10.310

some counselors, some ministers. But the community. He said, I like what you're saying. I said, I'd like for them to meet

01:08:10.310 - 01:08:20.590

every month. Once a month. But every month. We met every fourth Thursday of the month.

01:08:24.160 - 01:08:37.040

Four of the seven schools in the Kashmere feeding pattern were required IR status. It means the state is getting ready to close that school. Kashmere High.

01:08:37.040 - 01:08:55.040

Had been on it for I think eight no, nine years at that point. It was on it for 11 years total. And each year, they threatened to close that high school. Well, if you close the high school, what happens to the students?

01:08:55.640 - 01:09:04.330

Everybody's not going to the next school. Forget charter. We're not even there yet. Now we're in charter, right? Charter era.

01:09:04.880 - 01:09:14.210

But the kids will drop out. Many of them will. They don't have the same home life value. And I say this.

01:09:14.210 - 01:09:25.920

No two homes next to each other have the same values. Not that one is better than the other. They just two different houses. Parents are different.

01:09:27.970 - 01:09:37.330

So we've met every fourth Thursday of the month. We had service providers come and meet.

01:09:38.570 - 01:09:53.680

And I will never forget a couple of them came and said, This community is too hard. We can't come in here and help these kids. I said, if it was easy

01:09:53.680 - 01:10:10.130

Why would we need you? So the state started taking notice of what we were doing as a community. Now this is grassroots land

01:10:10.130 - 01:10:26.080

now. With a nonprofit. We formed a nonprofit per unit. I said, just come along. Made trips to Austin, TEA get involved.

01:10:26.710 - 01:10:42.310

They would come to the meetings. I tried to get the Houston Society to pay attention to what was happening. Even in the black and brown community.

01:10:44.800 - 01:10:57.830

Lukewarm interest. Lukewarm interests. I would have to have my Super Neighborhood meetings On the second Tuesday of the month, fourth Thursday of the month.

01:10:57.830 - 01:11:10.610

I'd have these meetings and it was hard for four years, every month for four years, that I had to keep them separate. And sometimes they'd tell, make sure that

01:11:11.690 - 01:11:33.080

both were functioning properly. HISD paid attention That the schools were improving. We did this for four years. Every month.

01:11:34.000 - 01:11:44.590

One year, one school came off IR The next school Next year, another one came off IR. In four years we brought all four schools

01:11:44.590 - 01:11:59.440

out of IR. People will come along when it's successful. They won't come in at the ground floor. And as my father said about Houston.

01:11:59.440 - 01:12:09.400

Houston's a show me town. You've got to show people you're either going to stay with what you're doing, and they'll come along eventually, but they're not going to come along

01:12:09.400 - 01:12:27.500

At first. And I've seen that on different ventures that I've done. And we brought all four schools out. HISD came to us at ProUnitas and said,

01:12:28.900 - 01:12:42.130

We like you, you have something going on here that we'd like to be a part of. Mr. Barqawi said, Keith, I'm going to have to let you go.

01:12:43.600 - 01:12:52.510

The philanthropic world doesn't understand what you do. They don't have value for it. It's not in dollars and cents.

01:12:52.510 - 01:13:08.110

I wasn't doing it for salary. I was doing it as a volunteer. They don't understand the value.

01:13:08.390 - 01:13:17.900

HISD wants to buy the software of what we're doing. Long story short, it became wraparound services.

01:13:19.700 - 01:13:29.780

That you hear in the public schools here in the Houston area. HISD was first. Harmony has come along.

01:13:30.230 - 01:13:45.730

YES Prep. It's now in Chicago and some schools in Florida. But it started at the grassroots level When HISD got a hold to the software,

01:13:49.030 - 01:13:59.210

They said, we know community got it to where it is, but we have it now. They cut out community.

01:13:59.590 - 01:14:12.140

And that's been the downfall of wraparound services. What they didn't understand. Not only did we help the student, we helped the family.

01:14:13.760 - 01:14:25.100

When an unfortunate event like a fire at Christmastime happens. The school district can't do anything to help them. When a child needs a winter coat, because it's cold,

01:14:25.400 - 01:14:39.080

the school district doesn't go buy a coat. When a child is hungry. The school district doesn't go and buy food. The community does.

01:14:39.080 - 01:14:54.980

When a train is blocking the track of school busses can't get through. Or it's happening too often. Or what have you. They turn to the community. And I've told this over and over again, community can do what an institution can't.

01:14:56.230 - 01:15:09.410

They don't understand. Society does not understand the value of community. People come and go as far as politicians or positions.

01:15:09.410 - 01:15:25.010

The constant is community. An institution is an empty building without people from the community. You need the workers, yes,

01:15:25.010 - 01:15:36.970

But the fact is that. So we were able to do this. We have a farmer's market in Kashmere Gardens at LBJ hospital.

01:15:38.510 - 01:15:48.550

That's going on Seven years old in a food desert because we couldn't wait for HEB to come into the community because they're not coming.

01:15:49.550 - 01:16:00.430

They have said the reason we won't come. You don't have the rooftops. In other words, you don't have the economic income to support a box store.

01:16:01.250 - 01:16:10.790

They're wrong. Directly, We might not have what you're looking for. You build it and they'll come.

01:16:10.790 - 01:16:25.190

The average person in Kashmere Gardens has to go eight miles north. Six miles west for quality produce, quality food and products.

01:16:26.320 - 01:16:40.000

So as community leaders, we said. We have the ability to do this ourselves. And relationships matter.

01:16:41.000 - 01:16:52.880

The lady who runs habitat for Humanity in Houston, Allison Hay, we met her At a long-term recovery from Hurricane Harvey to United Way. She said, y'all are very passionate about what you're doing.

01:16:52.880 - 01:17:05.630

I have an entity that wants to come in and help you all address food insecurity. That was going on seven years ago. Now we have a flourishing farmer's market

01:17:06.080 - 01:17:16.540

under Urban Harvest next to the Buffalo Speedway market They have. We have the most impactfulness in their system

01:17:17.990 - 01:17:26.800

in a food desert. You build it, they will come. People line up waiting for a farmer's market to open.

01:17:26.950 - 01:17:39.530

It's open every first and third Saturday of the month at the entrance of LBJ hospital, 9 to 12. And it's been a sustainable market. Anything we touch, anything I touch,

01:17:39.880 - 01:17:53.890

I try to make sure it's sustainable. What gets us in trouble is short-term events or an entity that comes into a community

01:17:54.740 - 01:18:09.610

and leaves. If you bring something in the community and people come to depend on it. The worst thing you can do is take it away. And so now

01:18:09.610 - 01:18:22.420

people depend on our farmer's market. Now, When we first started our farmer's market. Our suppliers said it's been four months.

01:18:22.420 - 01:18:35.450

People are not coming from the community. It doesn't work here. You have to give it longer than four months. Now we are seven years.

01:18:36.250 - 01:18:50.050

So it's a labor of love In doing this. And as you see it, people say, well, what do you do? I called it apples to zucchini.

01:18:51.100 - 01:19:05.450

Whatever it is, you'll try to address it. Shay Olaifa: Thank you so much. Thank you for all of your work. Keith Downey: Thank you. Shay Olaifa: While you were talking, you talked about being the radio host for KCOH.

01:19:05.800 - 01:19:16.790

I'd love to hear more about how it started. What the impact has been, and especially how it's gotten the word out about the contamination? Keith Downey: Sure.

01:19:21.010 - 01:19:35.080

When you're passionate about something. People are always looking. The one thing my grandmother always taught me as a child, someone is always looking at you.

01:19:36.230 - 01:19:50.110

They may not say anything ever, but they're looking. I happen to Be talking about community. Whether it was on Facebook

01:19:50.110 - 01:20:04.460

or whether it was out at a meeting. And people either going to know me from Facebook. Or at a meeting that they've seen. And a gentleman

01:20:04.460 - 01:20:17.620

reached out to me and said, I'd like y'all to come on the radio station and talk about this wraparound services that you're doing. The community council.

01:20:17.620 - 01:20:29.980

So Dr. Barqawi and I came on, and we talked about wraparound, and we tried to get the word out to people, like I say, by any means necessary

01:20:30.050 - 01:20:41.180

over the air. And it was a different station, KYND, I believe. And when it comes to radio, of course,

01:20:41.180 - 01:20:55.910

you got just the older population, but it's a large older population. And I don't think people to this day realize the value of that- podcast is important. Super important. Got it. But radio also.

01:20:58.490 - 01:21:10.070

So the gentleman said, wow, I'd like to have you back after the telecast, or the broadcast rather, because you're talking about community

01:21:10.070 - 01:21:25.520

and you don't run across people talking about community all the time. I said, okay. I came back and I came back my by myself, talking about different things that we were doing in the community, about the meetings and what have you.

01:21:30.310 - 01:21:41.720

Years pass, and I get a call from Paris Eley, who was the same guy. I didn't know his background.

01:21:41.720 - 01:21:56.800

I knew some of his background. I knew he worked at CBS at one point in New York. I knew that he worked at different radio stations. I didn't know he used to work at Motown.

01:21:59.440 - 01:22:10.820

And he said, I'd like to offer you something. I said, what? He said, I'd like to offer you

01:22:11.720 - 01:22:21.940

a spot on a radio program. For a radio program. He said, you're always talking about community.

01:22:23.080 - 01:22:35.020

He said, I, know you like getting the word out to people. I said, Okay, Facebook. Okay. This will be another platform. Be able to reach people on a wider spectrum,

01:22:35.920 - 01:22:48.700

be able to reach a targeted population of the black community. Older generation. I'll go for it.

01:22:48.700 - 01:22:58.630

I like it. He said, you name the program. I said, well we are talking about community. How about community chat?

01:23:00.320 - 01:23:10.610

He said, it's perfect. He said, I could have you on as often as you like. Well, I was doing it once a week at first. And now I do it every other week.

01:23:10.610 - 01:23:26.290

And I'll tell you why. Because I have to come up with the guests that I have. It's a one-on-one conversation. But I want people to know about the services out there.

01:23:28.010 - 01:23:41.810

I want people to know what's being provided. Because, too many times, I've heard, nothing is happening out of here. Nobody's doing anything. Well, the one thing I'm trying to get people to understand

01:23:41.810 - 01:23:58.690

just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening. You're just not in the room at the time. And so I've had the EPA on, I've had officials, I've had people

01:23:58.690 - 01:24:14.320

that have run for office. We are nonpartisan, so we don't go for any candidate or anything. But I've had the county attorney on. I've had nonprofits. I've had residents.

01:24:18.010 - 01:24:29.440

And it's something to get the word out to people, to let them know what's out there. But I always ask this one question of my guests. This is my niche.

01:24:29.950 - 01:24:44.200

As a leader, how can people help you? No one ever asks a leader, Do they need some help?

01:24:44.900 - 01:24:53.660

And I know that because I live it, And people don't ask that question. And you can get some help. A leader can get help, but no one ever asks that question.

01:24:53.750 - 01:25:06.980

Overall, normally. And so this is another platform to get the word out to people. So I tell them about these meetings, about the creosote, about the EPA, about what's happening out there.

01:25:08.390 - 01:25:20.660

And one thing I want to mention too about the EPA. I'm a member of two things. And Ms. Kathy Blueford Daniels is as well.

01:25:21.640 - 01:25:33.470

A member of a CAG, Community Advisory Group, at the EPA. Now, that's a mandate for a Superfund site. This is not a Superfund site.

01:25:33.650 - 01:25:47.750

And I point that out. But the fact is that if it was going that direction, you have a community advisory group. This community advisory group is made up of 11 individuals from Fifth Ward.

01:25:47.750 - 01:26:06.250

Ground zero. Should be five from Kashmere Gardens, five from Denver Harbor. The community to the east. The railyard kind of touches all three. And also what's called a CAB.

01:26:07.970 - 01:26:17.630

Now, I've said it enough where I don't get them mixed up in my head. But when you tell the average person a Community Advisory Board is from the Houston Health Department

01:26:19.610 - 01:26:34.310

And if you ask the question, could the local government do more? The answer is yes. It could do more for this situation.

01:26:35.060 - 01:26:52.510

Will it do more? Unfortunately, we live in a era. Where it's at the will of the leader. Yes, we have to protest.

01:26:53.150 - 01:27:05.810

Yes, we have to go before boards and mayors and governors and representatives and senators and this, that and the other. Right?

01:27:05.810 - 01:27:19.490

But what I've found in my life as I get older, there's nothing can beat a one-on-one with a person. When you take a person from that board and talk to them one-on-one,

01:27:20.740 - 01:27:35.210

you can influence them. You have better influence. They have people they can influence. It's a network deal, and it's subliminal. You're working them and they don't know they're being worked.

01:27:36.440 - 01:27:49.550

And you're not doing nothing negative. You're just trying to be passionate about your point. But yes, you should go through the process.

01:27:49.550 - 01:27:57.680

You should protest. You should go before the horseshoe Left city Hall. You should stand before the mayor.

01:27:57.680 - 01:28:11.840

It's part of the process, get it on the record. Always get it on the record. But there's nothing like a one-on-one conversation that's between you and that person. And the world doesn't have to know about it.

01:28:12.610 - 01:28:19.900

Shay Olaifa: Thank you. Keith Downey: Thank you. Shay Olaifa: Okay, so we're nearing the end. Keith Downey: Yes. Shay OlaifaL But I wanted to ask you, is there any question

01:28:19.900 - 01:28:32.930

that I haven't asked you that you'd like to talk about, or any stories you'd like to share before we reach the end of this oral interview? Keith Doweny: I would just like to share Pretty much got it all out, but,

01:28:33.260 - 01:28:47.380

that was in my head. But one thing I want people to understand. People care. Everybody's life has value

01:28:47.380 - 01:29:00.890

and everybody matters. Black lives matter. Yes, But everybody's life has value. And I'll leave you with this.

01:29:00.890 - 01:29:18.460

And this is something I came up with years ago. If we replace I and me with us and we. Just imagine where we will be.

01:29:20.530 - 01:29:22.350

Shay Olaifa: Thank you so much. Keith Downey: Thank you.