00:00:01.399 - 00:00:24.950

All right, Doctor Ward. Uh, yeah. Yeah, let's kind of dial this position and see how it works. But could I have just your name and address? 2310, Robert. Ok. Oh, Doctor Ward is to, to our, uh, interview this afternoon. Uh, I like to, uh, asked about,

00:00:24.959 - 00:01:01.119

uh, how you first that the board in the selection president? Let's see. Was that a Friday, uh Friday morning? I arrived here, I guess about nine, uh, saw the notice ro there wouldn't be and os uh present learned about new, that was to be Masters problem,

00:01:01.950 - 00:01:50.000

right. The mattress. Uh, it was very, very negative and before, before I heard it was Masterson, I heard, yeah, indirectly, faculty knocking themselves. I'm gonna start that, uh, that aspect four. Most of what I heard about Masters was, of course, rumor to some, uh, I didn't

00:01:50.010 - 00:02:37.729

know him personally. Uh, when I came, one is here but not, not predecessors of the department. Oh, I've given a lot of evidence had my favorite whether, uh, one of the more of an impression others for back. Well, uh, there were several, this again is all

00:02:37.740 - 00:03:25.710

hearsay and mine, there were several episodes as d was uh interfering in the department. Sure, that is establishing part without the knowledge of the chairman. The department was looking for a chairman. Um Some years ago a department was formed. Masters of that. I can't. One

00:03:25.720 - 00:04:28.589

member resigned of not talking horrendous, whatever they were cases. Um Master fighting Masterson has dean fighting with um about, I should try to connive uh to and certain full professors would be getting water, assistant professor very name without 10 conf do

00:04:28.600 - 00:05:21.880

in somebody. And uh so this spray something that was written. Well, not exactly. Uh well, yeah. Uh one full professor, one saw that prob um being but, or, and the, and the professor in this case doesn't tell anyone except where does the telecom dean. On the

00:05:21.890 - 00:06:12.510

other hand, tell certain members in the department, um being considered addition to that offer. You will not actually the offer and let it go. Um Yeah. Uh I think other members in the department a lot two, I always, but in any case, I, I was stories

00:06:15.440 - 00:07:20.290

just at this period four. Um that's uh Friday morning here. Septic. What the in your mind, the options that were available? Well, at the time, at the time. Yeah, I mean, it immediately a kind of hope I or the uh shot challenge. And

00:07:20.299 - 00:08:15.769

so I had a seminar, much of the writing of the petition seeing of the idea. I, I midway my seminar roughly or lead to uh to present this motion. The reason that I was, I know that I am don't particularly have a radical record square. Also

00:08:15.779 - 00:09:07.000

as chairman of the department, I think what we like probably uh with these other people got a lot of s being collected. Actually, uh things were moving and moving so fast, timely, one impression frustration, put it in the and also, of course, there was no possible

00:09:07.010 - 00:09:51.479

way of forecasting what we have future section. It just really is so do about it, undesirable problem are meeting that uh Friday morning. Uh Well, maybe it was Friday. That's the one what other options were discussed. Besides that, the, of course, the vaccine is the one

00:09:51.489 - 00:10:51.070

that was decided on. What, what else? I don't think there were any others um later. Uh just some mode of expressing fact questions. Well, then moving on up the faculty meeting itself. What care about. Well, a actually at the meeting, um the meeting was in retrospect,

00:10:51.080 - 00:11:20.619

seems to be rather calm, almost like any other fact, not quite as that calm, but it wasn't as turbulent. Um Well, I remember myself being, being uh tensed up because I knew that I was be the one to present this motion. I didn't look forward to

00:11:20.630 - 00:12:01.919

that. Um There was a lot of, I mean, I, I had never seen any board of trustees. Other people are saying that there was one, the place was very crowded. Um I think that uh, I'm not sure the initial point was whether or not take, get

00:12:01.929 - 00:12:40.250

that, I don't recall anyone. I think so. I think was sharing it and he said the first issue. Yeah, or not to, uh, were you aware at the time? Uh, who was it? Who was it? Who wanted to take it for? I believe the crack. I'm

00:12:40.260 - 00:13:02.770

trying to remember whether he, whether the press was, was allowed to stay. I just don't know. I think the uh the feeling was that people didn't want either depressed, didn't want depressed because we all knew what was coming extremely important. A lot of uh rather bitter

00:13:02.780 - 00:14:01.359

discussion felt that the press cardiac arrest discussion. Now, I I think that's correct. Stick for me out the way right away. I introduced her there one. OK. It was the first encounter I'd ever had. My colleague said board that impression. Um and after hours, oh, was

00:14:01.369 - 00:14:52.070

really what he what it was was an appeal for pity for the board or and may have missed that um out of regard for the feelings for the attack. There's no real events, election particularly no so subsequent well being in university. But the, well the university

00:14:52.080 - 00:16:08.130

is not, I thought it was judgment but Alan was very shaky. I feel sorry. Um He didn't say that uh at before Mr Lo the back. Gorgeous. Well, and then requested Professor Ross um state activity, faculty student and advise stipulated where we all but I

00:16:08.140 - 00:17:03.640

did say at that point prior to the public mass for the but, but, but after actual negotiation um advised of what the decision. Yeah. Um Anti Masters. And then we see when the bro committee was present before I think of what said, is

00:17:03.650 - 00:18:00.180

that fine? Uh Then there were some other questions, Dean Rich and start off applaud it or courageous. The German. We start there. Wave. No. Oh um The breacher John Claude, shut up. Copy of Labor rule. You look like a rock I take. Uh but, but Cron

00:18:00.569 - 00:19:15.680

declared order. Have you notice the effect? Five? Well, Alan Alan went visibly chattered clearly there. I think cro cro just the decision was off the desk. Eleanor was not self for a long period of time.

00:19:15.689 - 00:20:00.660

He sat on the stage with his head and bowel. Wow. Yeah, you got the impression that had he known. I have to see what that a lot of different you certainly expect for the fact that to be much more acquiescent. Um Then, then there were other

00:20:00.670 - 00:20:55.380

questions clearly indicating the displeasure of the questionnaire. That selection. Oh, uh I had my hand up a few times recognized would have been announced that um the tissue in certain ways. Um Bye. I had the opportunity. The 67. Exactly. And I would like to tissue much

00:20:59.229 - 00:21:49.569

copy that actually expressed displeasure method by which the present selected that is without the A OK, faculty or reconsider appointment um and then, and then check your ch the question that I read seven. Um and I think that there was some doubt in as

00:21:49.619 - 00:22:40.589

far as to whether these people represent. See here. Perfect. Oh, or put it another way. Representatives. Exactly Victoria, right? Not that there are 67 such in uh I had five or six sheets, word and condition. We just shop, get the sheep like a lead off we

00:22:40.599 - 00:23:27.469

offer rather impressive. I did the first name was John Hardwick. That fact uh I, I read the quite logical. Yes. Yes. Um At I think at that point, the question whether this, whether this be put in the form of motion. And I said, I didn't speak

00:23:27.479 - 00:24:05.959

for all the 67 people myself yesterday. O and then there was some discussion, well, uh Professor K Journal in motion that this should be split in two separate mode. The first one, objecting of selection. Second one uh urging that the board reconsider um after some discussion

00:24:07.699 - 00:24:40.650

past me, what was your reaction? No. Well, initially this um but uh very quickly after that as an advantage, I was very skeptical that that it would pass. Although I thought that the first part of it had a pretty good chance of passing clearly clear on

00:24:40.660 - 00:25:26.890

that the majority of the package was distressed. I thought the second part probably fail and it seemed at the time a rather radical proposal to seven urge four, right? Consider but actually alter. Well, people sitting around me discussed this, I was sitting next to will

00:25:26.900 - 00:26:16.280

be and we both felt that advantageous to support. Now we could at least get half of it passed. Um, I think we persuaded several other two. J lo believe me the time discussion. Of course, they both also notice to the individual. Wait, yeah, I think, I

00:26:16.290 - 00:26:52.260

think there is a snowball effect to it. I think, I think particularly among the people, somewhat timid and somewhat afraid of all of this. Well, particularly when I read rather name, which turned out to be a very important, of course, go I know thing was other

00:26:52.270 - 00:27:38.010

conservative that the word one. Um think this had the effect of ok, encourage, giving me a lot of encouragement. Sure, I want to do. In other words, I think it, it became very respectful to oppose the Board of trustees and respect that. Is there first department

00:27:38.020 - 00:28:27.400

chair sizable represents he did sign a weather storm. It was thanks. Uh So I think there was a snowball in it for very few people or, but I know were around me portion of the a a real sense of ere of co difference wasn't tactic, who

00:28:27.410 - 00:29:01.479

were some of the people? Well, let's see. I remember uh I see 20,000 at the time being I was going around on. Well, anytime that Friday, um uh did you have any special um link as to why the various people were studying, it mentioned, there were

00:29:01.500 - 00:29:33.020

quite a few services back the numbers on it and you're not gonna Yeah. Well, it seems to be a sell out of it or just a rather arrogant breach of promise because prior to this, there had rather elaborate preparation for getting, for assembling this, the faculty

00:29:33.030 - 00:30:08.229

refer or faculty reference. And we also were kind of prepared for it and that we knew that committee wasn't doing anything that is that the board had not initiated meetings and settles had not been very receptive actions themselves. As the committee had submitted a list of

00:30:10.020 - 00:31:02.150

five, nothing much had happened. We knew before. Yes, board was, people were sort of l or, or be wary of the faculty as a whole is not, are not very, not terribly constant. But even so I, I think that they were surprised, I this is matter

00:31:02.160 - 00:31:57.689

what success it did even more surprised at the vote, even after the expression of sentiment expect on second stay in the position of care. The thought was especially could never um well, if it is significant, although I'm not sure Gordon did not

00:31:57.699 - 00:33:05.290

share it. Sure ch position. Um so or just interject his own ear position to be fruitless university. I wondered Gordon ST but since subsequent go ahead and denser take over the control of the fact. Sure, significant to quite sure. Sure. No, that's about

00:33:05.300 - 00:33:46.939

all differences might have. Gordon be, I don't know, possibly not, do you sense any difference between, uh, the way the f case, the pres the, that he has with the f case compared with, well, particularly in the sciences, I think, uh, he carries, he's

00:33:46.949 - 00:34:41.408

respected very high. I suspect that he was probably even more obviously yet. That probably wouldn't be, to be honest. Uh, other than perhaps, may the opposition grow even stronger. Well, would I be correct in interpreting what that, uh perhaps that are pro taking, uh, somewhat the

00:34:41.418 - 00:35:18.100

position of the board, uh ship the boat? Well, he kept, he kept reminding us that we were damaging by imposing accomplished food. Was we couldn't possibly, do you think that? So then I think so. Iii I think it, I think, well, the next we, the color

00:35:18.110 - 00:35:57.729

for me. Well, I, I went home and uh I, I came out of course and all the students were clotting first five for I went home in there. Calls from the press. Yeah. Uh Yes. What do taciturn? But I did, I did give explicit information, actual

00:35:57.739 - 00:36:35.300

information without giving the person. And what other things is about the meeting? Yeah, the one of the issues, everybody was one of the press raid. Other people thought of, uh what are we risking? Oh, no, we heard of sources. Masterson is a very convicted person. We

00:36:35.310 - 00:37:11.439

are quite relatively me, I guess opposing. Uh Then on the other hand, the other question is, how far are we going? To go. How are we going take stronger steps, want to resign or we want to threaten resignation, encourage strikes or what reporter asked me what

00:37:11.449 - 00:37:50.729

I am. Go so far as to, yeah, I did say that I expected that it would be better. Got very strong. Oh, well, things are moving very, the Saturday evening. What, what was your reaction? How far would you yourself if it was basically the way things

00:37:50.949 - 00:38:39.820

still west? Um, it's impossible to answer. I, I don't think I would simply resign. I would, uh, be much more receptive to any other possible job that you, I don't think I would, practicality. Can I work here? I wouldn't have thought if I didn't have a

00:38:39.830 - 00:39:16.780

job. But anyway, it is not the, uh, not the situation in which one rationally and deliberately considered. Um, did you, did you feel at the time that by passing a petition? Yeah, that you were somehow taking your? Yes, I did. Well, I knew, I mean, I,

00:39:17.729 - 00:40:01.389

to begin with assumed that uh mass this momentum picked up, I suppose a very much after the, that is the actual possible, know about it. Really, really, really. But still, I mean, I, she's been a lot of support here. I knew that I was antagonizing friends.

00:40:03.379 - 00:40:38.860

Four. I, I went to the, uh, I can't remember. I didn't co a college meeting was a Saturday night. The, uh, well, now college meetings at all of the colleges actually. Took place the Sunday night. This is the night just before the, so then form college

00:40:38.870 - 00:41:21.439

meeting Friday night, the decision came out to have a piece early morning. Yeah. No, I don't think I didn't go to the problems. Yes, big. We agreed to what to say because what condition? Um But ii, I guess one thing that was running

00:41:21.449 - 00:41:57.239

through my head at the time was that uh such a deviation for the basic practice of presidential selection would be very, very damaging to the university. Uh I, at the time, the English Court was very much concern point. Yeah, I think at that time there were

00:41:57.250 - 00:42:38.830

two offers out to people out of university. Yeah, that actually one person was supposed to visit the campus during that. No, I, I guess it was call in. Wow, at all. It's in my mind that uh uh F and D this, this is the way university.

00:42:39.429 - 00:43:28.300

All right. That agreements with the fact of um where does this place? Me as a chairman work very hard? Is that what you mean to university? So uh this turned out to be substance. Um Oh, there are other side issues. Also some of the students could

00:43:28.310 - 00:44:11.790

call one. I think members of the student government here. No, the leg had a name. Seven signatories. I, I had given the petitions Joe Thomas who said that's why I called you when you said you see that so I can got me and David Minter was

00:44:11.800 - 00:45:21.129

here, absolve it deal. Actually, I didn't know what it was, what was format. Uh, most of the other people were speaking most here. Seven when you're on a parade I left. Oh, I wasn't there. Uh, I think the most significant

00:45:21.139 - 00:46:11.929

thing happened that time that he sold for di, that the committee itself was sort of giving Masterson the opportunity be judged. He actually felt that Masterson had the opportunity save. Um put a sort of put it to himself. Me Salzburg also. So I think

00:46:11.939 - 00:46:49.129

that committee accepted sitter. Uh but the Masterson did not. Um So was it that all Saturday? Of course, the, well, the things change in several directions. First of all, there was no question now about the real possible decision may both to either by the board or

00:46:49.139 - 00:47:50.060

by half fashion. Um And secondly to the man himself. Well, last selection, the issue television first. Oh, complete uh unwillingness to admit Ibuprofen. All of these looked like a man who did not want his president. Extremely ambitious. No, of going against the faculty.

00:47:50.070 - 00:49:07.120

Now, obviously, um I think most of what I was doing, talking to me, conversation. Sure. Um Right. Have you talked to some of the student there? Um Never I five rams. The question that came out of the press student is

00:49:07.129 - 00:50:00.159

not calling a press conference. Yeah. No, before they met or, or after, but just they were, they were kind of frustrated. Uh They they felt that the, the true story just was not getting out. So three process whitewashing. Oh, so,

00:50:00.169 - 00:50:28.590

as I said, I wasn't much involved in it after that except Sunday. I, and I just talk to people and heard things. I didn't, were any of the rumors stand out in your mind. I, I can't remember any at that point. Uh, I know that several

00:50:28.600 - 00:51:12.760

people would call Pitzer. I love people as you or behaved rather badly. Yeah, very good choice that you told one person that he was very proud of the fact. Uh But there was a very important meeting Monday sort of provides that there was no real leadership.

00:51:13.719 - 00:52:19.820

Um What is that? Um But uh a meeting was changed. Body, of course, first, various people have been invited to pattern a mostly and already I've gotten involved in this. How many were there? There were about uh 15. Yeah. Uh Warren Scaring Ro and this meeting

00:52:19.830 - 00:52:53.120

went on 13. Um So there was several suggestions and what we should do. It looked at that point as though master said, not going to back that the war is not going back. Um So there and in there was going to be a kind of an

00:52:53.129 - 00:53:58.120

in inevitable escalation protest, be extremely classy and decorous, getting worse or the B SBS various. So I think this, this what this try it foreign sensor um meeting was sort of informally chaired by Dean Gordon. Exactly diversely. Obviously artificial 17 seconds. Yeah. Oh,

00:54:06.149 - 00:55:06.040

but why is it one of these two plan first word? This scar, uh, one was somebody go try to talk straight forward cardio? No, Bill was not there. So I spoke to him, thought to be best choices f that first. Um, the

00:55:06.050 - 00:55:59.780

idea was that? Ok. Awesome. Yes, he was there. Lose his idea. Uh, I think most people were really skeptical way it would work or, um, well, the notion master in this dead set on getting a job. I think there was some feeling that it

00:55:59.790 - 00:56:43.159

might skepticism wasn't complete or rather doubt because Masterson had the reputation deserved or otherwise have been terrifically ambitious and particularly efficient with President Rice. All the white drop. So, but that I thought it was worth a chance. He thought it might work there. You cordell was

00:56:43.179 - 00:57:41.860

not. Yeah. Um, I know it was on one of the things on my mind, uh, terrific urgency of the situation so broken. Oh, strikes. We had also at the members of the committee. Awesome. Also four or been in rather recent contact or, or was not only

00:57:41.870 - 00:58:47.959

that but pretty honest. Wow, the board members of the board were being very embarrassed. Houston, thank you, girl. Um, well, another, another proposal that came out was that possibly in the situation that you saw, you said. So actually the figure president represent

00:58:47.969 - 00:59:52.889

the university, not actually authority. Um, it seemed to me and to most, most pretty young septic. Uh Then as I said, this discussion several hours, I could detect a sort of slow patterns, emerging pattern was for a uh before the emergence of the leader. Of course,

00:59:57.179 - 01:00:55.659

I think it was the question of the question was and or most of this July Gordon himself as sorry. But finally, uh so the question was put to burden as to whether except the real control, to be obvious his

01:00:55.669 - 01:02:04.459

own leadership as far as the borders. Yes, he, he did agree. Felt that what was at the station? Yeah, disapprove. Bye. Idea of referendum. The car a about mechanics and, yeah, thank you. The back. Yes. Just simulated by the most practical way

01:02:04.469 - 01:02:58.399

of doing it. Objection. Not really, it's not working or with the char, how is that objection answered? I don't really recall. Well, this was simply a directive from the Executive Chief of Mhm University System Authority or in a chair and could, couldn't go for response, which

01:02:58.409 - 01:03:47.689

indicates of course that Gordon may have been exceeding his authority courageously. Did anyone suggest that that taking the department might have an intimidating effect on? Well, it would be secret balance. Most departments have one. Oh, they vary. No, that, that, that didn't come up. Was there

01:03:48.830 - 01:04:58.580

else that, uh, strike you? But, um, not really, it's, um, I was sort of impressed by sobriety. I think it was a very one of the best me. Oh, well, yeah, a fairly large yeah, ring out quite a bit. But,

01:04:58.590 - 01:05:31.399

you know, I, you mentioned a moment ago that, uh, two of these leadership emerging within the group. Did you have pre in the front? Oh, I was all, all four door, the one thing he had the official executive officer already. Um, and I, in my, uh,

01:05:31.409 - 01:06:33.100

very limited dealings with, when I heard about it I had my back little. Yes, I think, uh, I suspect that it really, yeah, his whole future advice was right. Oh, I don't know, but I'm just guessing probably respect the odds were that some of Yeah,

01:06:34.610 - 01:07:46.020

and as such a great person, um I don't know, take care, probably had to ask myself question as to whether fact, fact Scarin was already wang Shi elected for sure student. I say Gordon Ma clearly knew what, what was going on. That's where exactly. And this

01:07:46.030 - 01:08:28.088

was the was in the middle, the board was going one way and the factory was going the other way and most of the administration was doing nothing. So he thank you chief executive. So there was a, a very definite power back. How are the readership

01:08:33.149 - 01:09:28.959

kill it? He felt uh I think one of the very vital to back uh that have had groups around Russia. What? And that's another thing that came out of this decision of a daily meeting part, a troll. So we met probably so

01:09:28.970 - 01:10:48.430

he was very happy, maintain creating something. He's Yeah, Exactly. Ok. But I think he was very diplomatic. So on. Not, it's not so much more directly force in his opposition. Fred destructive. So that he, he was certainly trying or also trying to control

01:10:52.479 - 01:11:41.410

you get the impression that you, well, he met with them, he told us when the nature of one be done, we had the results that which one, two talk to him. No, strong. Well, they, they, the evidence, the evidence of the following didn't convince

01:11:41.419 - 01:12:30.109

the board then and different will be done. That is natural depress, I can do. Uh, the we discuss was the pretty, why would ever be possible or I got no idea what to do that. The, that like that well, it worked both ways. But I think,

01:12:30.120 - 01:13:23.529

yeah, the, the main realistic appraisal was likely change. Of course, the balance was to both of them found incredible and the evidence that five week to accept the job. But I thought that this would, what do you say their options might be of? Well, one thing

01:13:23.540 - 01:14:25.200

that uh was talking to people who ask this question, what they do? I don't know, I don't know the legal aspect person. So aside for cash settle, but we just, just seem board should investigate options. Are the offer. Did

01:14:25.209 - 01:15:35.970

you have the impression that this is what your, well, I think what he was was what he wanted. Scarring clearly is a better, yeah, that opinion long to get them to see. I think in terms of they, they're,

01:15:35.979 - 01:16:53.000

they're having right part of it or convinced at all. Significant. Yes. Yeah. Decision would say just the tech. No. Was it? I, I don't think that, uh, Gordon or anybody sense of what they wanted, what specific things were t fuse passions

01:16:53.009 - 01:18:02.100

were, of course, the, probably more reprisals closing the screw some of them. Yeah. Strikes. Find the Monday. Yes. Well, in my own case, I went to this meeting, Chairman Gordon. Ok, I think most of the chairman or the, the uh this was

01:18:02.109 - 01:19:06.640

not many, not really represented the fact, much more pro OK. One of your majority of or against. Yeah, I think there are only two or three at the most. I would some chairman and strongly for mass start selection a choice. So, so

01:19:09.169 - 01:20:28.149

bo so in that group, I felt very much in my heart um that there was thing to do is accept this Joyce. No work question for administration. Sure. This people getting um yeah, some

01:20:28.160 - 01:21:33.589

people were saying somewhat less a yes that, thats but this was struck me as the mood. I there was halt all this protest. Yeah. Yeah. And then get together say university, this, this was something not discussion. Destroying the university. True Ward has made a mistake. Ok.

01:21:38.740 - 01:22:46.299

Destroy. Well, my reaction was very uh panic virtue and I got up and said something right. The issue was do, what future will we're not going to accept anything less the sending of the appointment realistic back. So I, I said that Gordon, it

01:22:46.310 - 01:23:32.790

was me to more of this meaning that you have. Yes, so did it. Now he implied and then there was no real doubt about it. One four number. Well, so my overwhelming, well, I think it was 98 about 98%. But as far

01:23:32.799 - 01:24:42.419

as I can tell, I'm too ig Harry. That could be a little stronger in some point. First one service, unequivocal. So, uh, I was a little disturbed hot governing body of the university part of June, as I said that sentiment. Ok. So

01:24:42.850 - 01:25:32.009

me. Yeah. Yeah. Ok. I, I don't know what, as a moderate. Well, I don't know. What do you mean by moderate? Well, the second category you, uh, you mentioned were those who, uh, you wanted to, to accept things the way they were, they were,

01:25:35.129 - 01:26:44.790

I would say calm. Yes, exactly. Sure. Got it. And I think the most vigorous opponents were a price we, of the, um, safety. Uh, yeah, the sun for any of those go where any of them live or just the department? How, how

01:26:44.799 - 01:27:46.810

did they finish? I don't know, this was a question. Kind of healthy. Sure. Now this is the, the Sims. Sims was a, I don't know. Well, then I guess after the Monday event, was there anything that happened? Uh, after that meeting? I think he was. Oh,

01:27:46.819 - 01:29:09.919

I have another one chairman call me talking about the threat of strike. Yes. Regularly k also. Sure. Different. Well, I thought that it was a con, it indicated the concept of

01:29:09.930 - 01:30:16.959

the department chairman role. Sure. So four plus I, or I know that the department, I thought that a lot of these people didn't realize, grab the vehicle, know that call what to go back home. Um, not exactly. Yeah, something like that. One

01:30:16.970 - 01:31:05.649

thing. That's what you are. II, I don't, I don't think that anyone who controls this thing anyway. Four. That's right. What are they called it? Uh, no, he's fit, I guess. But yes, sure. Of course, there was a lot of talking anyone to take the stra

01:31:06.080 - 01:32:01.939

talk to. Well, it was all very much in the, uh, stages. Things are desperate but it's like actual plan seems after the, after the march. Wow, of course, with all of this burning their bridges or go back the treat, I think this is probably strike. Tell

01:32:01.950 - 01:33:19.580

you, they tell you are the boards diversity. You yourself? Right. I don't know. Another, another plan. Forget who this was, uh, to hold the, hold the classes off camp straight, keep classes going. Uh, that struck me as silly talk to me. Well,

01:33:20.029 - 01:34:34.870

just a sort of a sort of gesture that back to, of course, the point of it was to demonstrate, I seriously pursuing their education. I wish this pleasure kind of way. Did anxiety, the bar empathy quarters like no, I don't think so. Problem

01:34:35.169 - 01:35:41.689

was in the other direction. And, um, all of Sunday and Monday who were very hysterical, you reported in the press that June 11th have done, follow me on college. One thing that happened was that didn't, came to see me on. I remember I called bro to,

01:35:47.339 - 01:37:15.180

to work things out here and then there was no, no real state. Um, and some of these rumors that c that people had interpreted townspeople, t I released protest, motivate lowest Gordon himself large in the um I got one on one piece, I think Postmark

01:37:15.189 - 01:37:44.240

February 16, I park your vicious attack on Dr Masterson. It's only dissolved. Placed in your of long and complimentary articles, Tennessee papers regarding this fine man statesman, I suppose you wanted the trustees to appoint you. I heard many of the faculty on the presidency advice how

01:37:44.250 - 01:38:44.899

ridiculous, regret your viciousness. These things are the way of backfiring when the attack. Sure. This one I was later. Alright. Former student raised along maiden and his master. She like, yeah. Um I don't know. I was caught off. She left Criteria Club cancer

01:38:54.520 - 01:39:52.750

lots back to. So I think I've learned, sorry, just, just when I was going through four that no, I, well, I tend to be a person. I didn't know that is but as far as um no, I, I don't, I don

01:40:02.970 - 01:40:59.839

that there was one rumor, I forget what when it came out. Right. But, uh, yes, but I don't, it may have been Monday. I, I just don't know really if you go ahead and no. Yeah. What a question about that? Oh, ok. I just felt enormously

01:40:59.850 - 01:42:40.060

relieved. I, but, um, or pair of relations, of course, network t, by that time, members of the college. Oh, do you know? I think, um, right. One thing, somebody got up to parents order and normally, because we was, it

01:42:40.069 - 01:43:55.680

may, it may just, uh, what you, they would, it was a very harmonious. There was no writer. Um, there was the question of the main substance, question of wording and telegraph. What quarter? So, no, it wasn't. One were a wire difficulty

01:43:55.689 - 01:45:04.259

or embarrassment? Oh, besides the controversy, have you noticed that the cycle? Because that time in the deed of the, the opposite side? Uh I don't think so as far as I can tell history department, the fire one. Sure. No,

01:45:04.270 - 01:46:05.930

I think, I, I think the people on the other side, but sure, I haven't heard of no one since the bad feelings in the department. Yeah. There, there had been a few somewhere. Get out for a long time. I control. I think there was

01:46:05.939 - 01:47:36.109

some, there disgruntle his blood. Uh David man. Trust me, spoke with the teacher. I was um, a mentor so sought after my other university and I've had difficulty. Yeah. Sort of sour seven. So, or

01:47:37.910 - 01:48:40.049

first. Yeah. Suspect. Yeah. Just go Yeah, he's gonna, well, he's gonna be gonna leave next year. I mean, eventually. Ok, because it was just tough, our budget was, was trimmed back. Now, what the other project, the other

01:48:40.060 - 01:49:45.209

part so far as I can tell, or just before it, what were some of your ideas about the character? Successful? Well, the ma, the name in my mind is somebody, uh, well, aside from general, one co operated, right. Pretty

01:49:45.220 - 01:50:54.870

much in the context of the Texas. Yes, the deal, whether he British country see you problem with the first service. Yeah. Sure. In other respects, my respect was other than that. Uh, well, I have that much dealing. I mean, I

01:50:54.879 - 01:51:51.319

was the chairman of the very, I thought the picture when I heard of first I thought she was a kind of model. He is approach to the job, very ambitious for, uh, was closely concerned all the various departments problems. What since, uh, I, I, my notion

01:51:51.330 - 01:53:22.180

of the presence? Awesome. Wow. I think he, uh, really, in this case work well, with the war, got you modern and liberal, how they're run in your life. Um, how, because so I, I think, uh, the rice can within

01:53:22.189 - 01:54:09.560

a broad range arrows and especially I would minimize qualification, scholarly research. Very desirable, of course, or yes, regard for serious. Yeah, that in some ways rice is still quite provincial, although in other ways it aims that are more, uh, do you have in mind when

01:54:09.600 - 01:55:16.979

you think of, well, there are lots of things that indicate fear of offending. Uh Actually I think the rise is um that's policies to but when it comes to say something like relationships with press. Yes, so that Rice Alumni Town be encouraged to believe

01:55:16.990 - 01:56:16.970

that. What sir, sir. Long range. Um Well, I think the business about the media got it um to a real extent or at least masking water, I assume that comes from and I think there's really not just as sure failure, also a

01:56:16.979 - 01:57:28.560

failure of nerve and also a failure. Administrators respond. Um Nationally, movies are big. Yeah. Ok. You guys have the opportunity to choir the de first, a very narrow s school. This fear her, she would only accept the Great War. Now this I, well, such things as

01:57:30.399 - 01:59:01.290

problem year football club has never really, that is, is the main argument for football. So I, I think I because enormously toward away from ar he I was right come be appointed just because of you. No dangerous

01:59:03.930 - 01:59:59.069

that too. How do you love that? Feel about what? Well, it's different from individual. I mean, this, if this is true at all. Yes. Oh, as far as the unique things here, but one is the character of life, you almost much more. So first

01:59:59.080 - 02:01:13.560

one that is so that the, the kind of school would be online just for trustees self on one hand committee, encouraging way to teaching on the other hand, there is fun. No publicized the factory to, to our courses closed.

02:01:17.680 - 02:02:00.439

And I think this is very neurotic other alumni periodical of the system. Very proud of it through my major part about what it is doing. What is Black Studies program? Rice is doing very little. But after it does something, put this information, what it will put

02:02:00.450 - 02:03:09.589

in an Oculus. Nothing, nothing. No pedagogical forms. Anything you might like. So. Oh, yeah, I think it quite p no, except that I see the, uh, Masterson episode. Not an isolated but go to a, to a head very much to awesome situation. Why split it with

02:03:09.600 - 02:04:07.080

sexual assumption or I think it will only really be of the new president affected. So I, well, under way, I promise you. So, on the other hand, you point to, for administration b called provincial. Oh, sh see, I situation of food. So I think that's all

02:04:14.410 - 02:04:16.149

the time is now 515.