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my name is Joshua furman. I'm the curator of the Houston jewish history archive at Rice University today is december 28th 2020 and I'm here with j Kent Friedman Kenny. How are you? I'm well, thanks, how about you? I'm doing great. Thanks for taking the time to

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um be with us to talk about your childhood and family history and your career and and all that you've done here in Houston in the community. So tell us a little bit about your childhood and where you grew up? Well, I grew up in biloxi, Mississippi,

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an unusual place for a jewish boy to grow up. My dad was in the service and when he was shipped overseas my mother went to live with her sister and her sister's husband who lived in biloxi Mississippi. They had a ladies ready to wear store there

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and she stayed there until my dad got out of the service and when he did at the end of World War Two he came back there and started his own clothing store, men's clothing store in, in biloxi. That's where I grew up. And when when were

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you born Kenny, 1940 for February 12, 1944, 1944. Okay, so I mean give us give us like a sense of what it was like to grow up in, you know, small town in the south as a Jewish kid. What was that like? You know, it was

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a great experience for me, uh biloxi is on the gulf coast and um it is predominantly catholic and has no real agricultural history like most of the south. And so um, we didn't have any slave trade there or that kind of thing. And so um, it

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was, you know, it was pretty easy, frankly. There were so few jews in town that we were kind of like the greek family in town, right? We were just not a threat to anybody. Um, but there were just a handful of jewish families. And then what

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about um anti Semitism or, or pressure to convert? Did anybody ever, you know, talk to you and say things like, you know, christ killer or things like that? No, I never heard any of that. I never heard any of that. I had some close friends, some

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boys who lived across the street from me who were catholic who uh were very concerned about me going to hell if I hadn't been baptized. And so they quietly baptized me one day in their home. But uh, other than that's as close as I ever came

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to, any kind of overt discrimination of any kind and they, and they were doing it for the right, but at least in their hearts for the right reasons. Did they, did they explain what they were doing? Did they dunk your head in a bathtub? What happened?

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Sprinkle holy water on my head? Their mother has a great story about, you know, being quiet in the house and her realizing that was unusual and sneaking up the stairs just as they were just as they were sprinkling sprinkling holy water on my head and baptize?

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I was about seven or eight and for several months I thought I was catholic, I wouldn't even meet on Fridays and things like that. And my parents everlasting credit, they just went with the flow of that and after a few months I you know, kind of

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reverted to normal and then tell us a little bit more about the the jewish community. There was there a rabbi? Was there a synagogue? How did it work? No, when I was growing up, there was not a rabbi there, we all always brought in a rabbi

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from New Orleans or mobile, both of which were fairly close uh for the high holy days. Um I was fortunate and then when I was about to be 13 there was a jewish chaplain on the Air Force base, Keesler air force base there. And so he

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did my bar mitzvah. Um Most people believe that I was the first person ever bar mitzvahed in biloxi Mississippi because of that. But it was such a long time ago that my catholic friends across the street had to get permission from the church to attend the

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bar mitzvah because that was at a time when the catholic church would not allow their uh parishioners to attend other services, not jewish any other services of any kind, wow, incredible. What about like Rush Hashanah, Passover, do you have memories of how the holidays were observed

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in biloxi growing up? Yeah I have wonderful memories of that. My parents were very open and sharing and we always had extra people at our home for those special holidays. Usually servicemen who were stationed at the Air Force base and we're away from home of course.

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And so we always had a number of them over for those kinds of holidays. Wonderful time. Wonderful time. Tell me more about about your parents, we haven't said much about them to today. What were their names? How did they meet? Yeah my mother's name was Rose

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frolic fro. H. L. I. Ch. She was born in new york but grew up in Montgomery Alabama, which is where her family ended up. My father's name was Earl Friedman and he grew up in Port Arthur texas which is where his family ended up. Um They

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met uh when my mother was working for a Uh chain military store hats and things and was sent to port Arthur Texas to run their store there. Um so they married 1941 and I was born in 44, born in 44. And then the store that your

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that your family had. Tell me a bit about the store. What did you guys sell? Did you grew up working in the store? I grew up working in the store was called kents named after me. Um K. N. T. Apostrophe S. Um And I did grow

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up working in the store. I enjoyed being in the store. Both my parents worked in the store. Um And um you know it was just it was just part of the family and then I had a younger sister who was four years younger, who is four

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years younger than I am. She stayed in Mississippi, she and her husband, I live in Jackson Mississippi but it's the only really family left in Mississippi for me. Mhm. What about you know growing up in the south in the in the era of Jim Crow, I

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mean can you talk about life you know as a as a jewish kid in a segregated town, what that was like, what do you what do you remember about about that time? Well it was clearly very segregated and schools were segregated and um I was a

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beneficiary of that segregation because I played a lot of sports and probably wouldn't have had an opportunity to play as much sports if this teams have been integrated but um you know it was very segregated and um although there was always a lot of interaction between

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the african american community and the anglo community. Um I never saw much in the way of animosity towards african american people just that they were um considered to be different and separate and apart and um and that was clearly a very strongly ingrained feeling uh in

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Mississippi. Um And I remember my dad was talking about how terrible it was that we asked people of color to serve in the armed services and put their life on the line for the country and then when they came home they didn't have an opportunity to

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do things that everybody else had the opportunity to do. And uh very offended by that. And so consequently I grew up offended by that as well. Sure, of course. Um In many ways, you know this this narrative is like a lot of stories of of um

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Jewish families in the south at that time, you know, in the 40s and 50s and um you know, lots of families owned stores and um did you, did you have any ambition or desire to to stay in Mississippi or were you always planning as soon as

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you graduated high school to to leave and not come back? And to what extent did your, did your parents want you to come back? I think my parents always wanted me to go do something else. Um they always thought that the clothing business was a difficult

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way to make a living and that it would be better if I had a professional degree of some sort. Um and so I was always sort of aimed towards doing something other than being in the clothing business in biloxi Mississippi, it's a problem that all small

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towns in the south have people grow up, there's just not a lot of opportunity there and so there's much more opportunity elsewhere, usually in larger cities, some place, right? Yeah, this, this does happen. We should talk a little bit about your high school experiences. I know

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that you played a little baseball, right? And you win football and ran track and ran track and did all of those things. Um, and so yeah, I had a, I had a wonderful high school experience. Uh, I enjoyed all of my time in high school, I

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enjoyed my classmates, um I was elected as a senior, I was elected president of the Mississippi Association of Student Councils. And um, you know, my first really confrontation of racism came when I went to a international student council conference uh in Wisconsin, uh, in my senior

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year, and Mississippi was one of the states that had two representatives instead of one. We had the president of the Mississippi Association of Student councils who was me and the president of the Mississippi Association of Black Student Councils. A young woman from, I think Jackson as

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I recall. Um, and so, you know, there were a handful of states that had two people there. Most people, most states only had one, wow, Okay, so you graduated high school in um what year, 1961 graduated from high school, I was fortunate enough to have some

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sports scholarship offers at several places and uh ended up at Tulane, which was a great decision for me. Um it was a wonderful place to go to school. It was the first time I spent a lot of time around a predominantly Jewish community, it was a

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two lane and joined a fraternity there, which was very helpful. Um, again played baseball at Tulane and uh, one of the few jewish players on the team, which was not unusual. I mean that's the way it was for me all of my life. What, what position

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did you play? I should have asked you earlier, shortstop and some center field in the summer times in american legion ball. I played center field, but mostly during, during my high school and college days I played shortstop. Gotcha. Was there was there any, you know, bit

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of a culture shock coming from biloxi, not a lot of jewish kids to, you know, Tulane, which has been something of a magnet for jewish kids across the south. Was that, was that an eye opening experience for you in some ways? No, it really was, it

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was a fairly easy transition for me. Um, uh, many of the kids at Tulane who were jewish came from small towns in the south as well and uh, from Louisiana and Mississippi and Alabama and places like that. Oh, there was a fair number from the east

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coast also, but it was a relatively easy transition. I mean I've grown up in a, you know jewish and in the synagogue and you know, with observing holidays and things and so um, it was, it was just not a difficult transition, but it was the first

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time I spent much time around peers who were jewish from really all over the country. And what did you decide to study at Tulane? I was a business major, uh, didn't know what I wanted to do exactly, but I figured business of some sort was what

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I wanted to do. And um, about midway through my junior year, I finally realized I wasn't gonna probably wasn't gonna be a major league baseball player and probably go to class and pay attention. And on a whim I applied to law school and got in and

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so they let me in after three years of undergraduate school. So I, my senior year of college, I spent actually in law school and so I graduated early because of that. And that was also at Tulane. Right, Yes, yes. And what, what, what or, or who

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inspired you to consider law as a career? You know, I'm not quite sure that's a great question, josh. I'm not quite sure. Nobody in my family had been a lawyer. I didn't, didn't really know any lawyers. Um, it just seemed like it would be of interest

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to me. I really could think at that time, I thought I was gonna probably be in business anyway, but I thought a law background would be a benefit to do. So, hmm, great and what was that like? I mean, what, what subjects in law school will

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appeal to you the most. Um, I thought law school was the most interesting intellectual experience. I'd had clearly very cerebral much different than certainly high school or even college in terms of the socratic method of teaching. Um and my classmates were all very bright and very

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impressive and so it was, it was a wonderful time for me. I really enjoyed it a lot. Okay and then tell us about how you ended up in boston. Well about halfway through law school, I realized that if I was going to go to law school,

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I probably should have gone someplace else. Not that I wasn't enjoying too lame, but just because it was an opportunity to see another part of the country. And so when I was graduating I applied to several firms in new york and boston and was fortunate enough

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that an opportunity with a large firm in boston, uh Sullivan and the name of the firm and uh so I moved to boston and spent a little more than two years there. I also got a master's in tax law at boston University while I was there,

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they had a program, you could do part time. So I did that. Um that was, that was a good experience as well. Um boston was great, I loved being there. Uh it was significantly more segregated than biloxi Mississippi was much to my surprise, everybody in boston

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lived in enclaves, there was a jewish section and an irish section and an italian section in the black section and so forth and there wasn't much interaction between them. Um boston had just come through a very difficult time with school integration. Uh there were there were

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a lot of angry people in boston. Again, much to my surprise, I thought it was gonna be a sort of a bastion of liberalism, but it was not at all. Yeah. What what years were you there? 67 68 67 68. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You were you,

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were you already married by then? I was married, I got married my senior year of law school. Um uh and actually after my first year of law school when I would have been a graduate from undergraduate school and uh I already had a child when we

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moved to boston. Okay, got it. All right then. So why did you decide not to stay up north? Um Well, as much as I enjoyed being in that part of the country, just because it was so different. I pretty quickly realized that in boston to be

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successful, you either had to have a lot of money or come from a family pedigree of some sort and since I hadn't either, I decided maybe I should go someplace else to try to make my fame and fortune and I wanted to come back to the

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south, wanted to live in a big city, pretty quickly narrowed that down to Houston and Atlanta. It was fortunate enough to get opportunities in both places. Selected Houston. It was a great decision for me, all of Atlanta's a wonderful city. Houston was a great place and

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I tell people all the time, Houston has made lots of successes out. A lot of very ordinary folks. You just kind of grappled and hang on and uh, it's been a wonderful economic engine and uh, lots of opportunities to do things that I wouldn't have had

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elsewhere. Uh, like, you know, within a couple of years of moving here, I was a member of the symphony board of directors that really wouldn't, wouldn't happen in most other cities in the United States. I just showed interest and was willing to work. And next thing

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I knew, you know, I was a member of the board and relatively shortly thereafter a member of its executive committee of the board. So, um, it was a wonderful way for me to reach out and meet lots of other people in town and uh, pursue something

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I really enjoyed. That's great. Can you play an instrument? I cannot, I cannot play in high school. I was part of a high school band, but mostly I was a singer because although I wasn't terribly great at singing, I could undulate better than anybody else in

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the band. So they gave me the lead singer role, got it, got it, that's great. Um, so you're part of, you know, the first cohort of jewish lawyers to be hired by major firms here in Houston. Um, not the first, but, but close to the first,

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Can you tell us some of that story? Yeah, so um, the firm I went to work with when I moved to Houston was called Butler and Binion. It doesn't exist anymore, it's gone out of business, It was the fourth largest firm in Houston at that time.

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And um, uh, that was the first jewish lawyer. They had hired um, one of the firm, Fulbright jaworski had hired to jewish lawyers before that, but really not not any of the other firms in town. And so it was really in the front wave of that

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sort of thing, you know, coming from biloxi. Uh, it was an easy transition from me um, into a firm. Um, they were ready to hire somebody who was jewish I think. And so, you know, I think all the pieces were in place for me to be

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successful there and very quickly made partner in that firm. It was a great, great experience for me. Uh, you know, a great place, lots of really first rate lawyers and first rate people, I know that there were two men in particular who were very influential in

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your life and your career, Aaron Far fell and Reuben asking is, can you talk about them a little bit sure I'm happy to Aaron Farfalle and Ruben asking these were partners in various business ventures, they had become extremely successful, had put together one of the country's

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first conglomerates by putting together even flow baby bottles and Spalding sporting goods and Dunhill pipes into a company very unusual for the late 19 sixties. Um and they were a terrific partnership because they were very different people. Uh Aaron was by and large, the good cop

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and rube was by and large, the bad cop in any negotiations they had and it proved to be extraordinarily successful for them. They were both very interested in young jewish people in town and trying to give them an opportunity to, to help themselves. And so they

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had, they had in their careers, both used Butler and Binion among other law firms. And so uh they were very helpful to me in getting the job there in the first place and and making sure that I succeeded when I was there. Um but both of

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them played really major roles in my growth in Houston as a person as a lawyer. Um And as a Houstonian. Yeah, we have a letter in the archive that you wrote, you probably remember this um to Aaron Farfalle, I think around 19 um maybe sometime in

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the late seventies. When when you made partner, When was that 76 was when I made partner? Um 75 maybe 75 or 76 something like that. And so yes, I was, it was a thank you note. Uh Karen, I wrote 12 room as well, thanking them for

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their support and backing and so forth. Yeah, great, and I know rube rube was very involved in politics as well, was very involved in politics. In fact, I first met him involved in politics, had gotten involved in uh a fellow named fred Hofheinz campaign for mayor,

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Fred was the son of Roy Hofheinz, who was the genius behind the Astrodome and the force behind the Astrodome. And fred was a very bright guy, had a PhD in economics from University of texas and a law degree from University of texas and ran for mayor

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um lost the first time, one the second time. Um and rube, I'm not quite sure how ruth knew fred, but ruth had been very involved with that campaign as well and that's how I first I met Ruth, he was you know, one of the world's great

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fundraisers, um primarily focused on the jewish community, but not entirely. And he was the first person I ever met, you know, who would have a fundraising event and you know, basically locked the door and you know, go through and call on people about how much they

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were gonna give and I mean, I've just never seen anybody do anything like that before, neither had anybody else frankly because most of people in that room were not jewish, right? And uh they were as stunned as I was at that at that tactic and uh

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you know, it was complete with things like you would say, you know, how much are you gonna give? And somebody would say, well, I give $1000 and he would say you're having a bad year, what do you mean $1000? You know, that's not enough for you,

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you know, you need to give five. And uh it was a quite revolutionary for fundraising in Houston texas. Um, wow, that's that's quite a story. Um so, so the association between, you know, you and Ruben Askin A's and the Hopkins family, sort of, you know, led

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to your involvement in In local politics. Is that something that you that you had your mind set on when you, when you came here or just sort of developed organically, both, I think I had always been interested in politics and had been a close observer of

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politics. Uh in fact, I had an opportunity in 1960, late 67, early 68 to meet Robert Kennedy in Boston and came into the law firm where I was working um Because one of his um prep school roommates, Charlie Cabot was a member of the firm. And

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so it was, you know, quite an exciting time for me right before, relatively right before he was assassinated in 1968, but I've always been interested in politics. And um so, you know, I was fortunate to get involved in fred's campaigns early on, it was an easy

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candidate to support, he ran against a long time incumbent, uh fairly racist mayor. Um and so Louie Welch, that was his name and had a long time racist police chief, a guy named Herman Short who was very easy to dislike. And so, you know, fred's campaign

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for mayor was really to get a new police chief and said he lost the first time he ran against Wells, the second time, Welch didn't run because he saw the handwriting on the wall and fred when fred won narrowly against another conservative opponent. But anyway, it

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changed Houston really forever in terms of its approach to to city politics. Um so, so yes, I've been involved in fred's campaign and threw that in addition to have met lots of other people, including a young african american activist named Mickey Leland, who shortly thereafter ran

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for state legislature and was elected and I helped him get there and Mickey and I became great personal friends and spent a lot of time together. Um, and I was a groomsman at his wedding for instance and things like that. And so we were great friends

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and um you know, we got to start a program together that continues to this day uh, Mickey Leland internship program. So the genesis of that was mickey had been to Israel on a couple of occasions um taken over by various jewish groups, I think the first

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one was the A. D l uh as a up and coming young politician and he'd fallen in love with Israel, It was a very serious catholic and so he loved being in the holy land and what he really was enamored of was the kibbutz concept of

00:24:24.560 - 00:24:40.290

people living in kind of communal circumstances where you know, if you wanted your child to take piano lessons that voted on whether or not to spend its money on your child taking piano lessons and things like that, he thought it was such a revolutionary way to

00:24:40.290 - 00:24:57.020

live um that he thought it would be great to expose young people from his community, inner city Houston to that way of life. And so in 1980 we started this program, we set up a charity and raised money and started this program to send inner city

00:24:57.020 - 00:25:15.430

kids to Israel and now 40 years later it's still ongoing and you know, it's revolutionized lots of young people's lives and we've sent kids who've never been out of texas or never been on an airplane and things like that. And the criteria for selection is perception

00:25:15.430 - 00:25:32.690

of future leadership. Um and so we have a large, diverse board covering all aspects of Houston, including now several of our former interns are now on the board. Um and so we, you know, we interview and select kids every year. In fact the hardest thing we

00:25:32.690 - 00:25:50.920

do is Decly which 10 kids are going and which ones are not going because they're all very deserving of going, but you know, it's just been a fantastic program in terms of exposing kids to the world. Um Their perspective of the world changes dramatically once they've

00:25:50.920 - 00:26:07.270

done that exposing them to the holy land, which they read about in bibles, exposing them to the state of Israel, exposing them to the current conflict in the Middle East and so forth. I mean it's just transformed who they are as people. Yeah, I think it's

00:26:07.270 - 00:26:23.230

a it's an incredible program that um I suspect is not very well known outside of Houston and perhaps even within Houston um you know, since congressman Leland passed away is is less well known. But I think it's a really important story, especially you know, in in

00:26:23.230 - 00:26:40.120

our current moment when a lot of um renewed attention is being paid to black jewish relations. Um you know, your your friendship with mickey evolved at a time when black jewish relations were not so good. Um Can you, can you talk about that a little bit.

00:26:40.680 - 00:26:57.780

Sure. Well of course black jewish relations have historically been very good. I mean the jewish community had always identified uh with the african american community and persecution. And so the early origins of the N double A CP and organizations like that. It had significant jewish involvement

00:26:57.790 - 00:27:15.450

in it. And um you know, by the late sixties, early seventies, a lot of that had deteriorated as african american folks wanted to take over their own organizations and didn't want help from white people of any kind. Um and so relationships began to deteriorate because of

00:27:15.450 - 00:27:33.520

that, particularly with younger african americans. And so uh, my opportunity to, to be a friend of mickey's and his of mine, you know, I think really helped bridge a lot of those gaps and through him I became friends with lots of other african american politicians or

00:27:33.520 - 00:27:49.210

business leaders, um spent some time on the board of texas Southern University, the historically black college here in town and um, you know, became much more appreciative of what are the richness of our african american community here in Houston and what is offered to the community.

00:27:50.120 - 00:28:07.450

Great. Um, can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with um Mayor bob Lanier? Yeah, so bob Lanier was somebody I knew through politics as well. Um and uh, I got to know him. He's been a very successful banker and real estate developer in

00:28:07.450 - 00:28:25.040

town. I had represented him on a handful of his business dealings and uh, when he ultimately ran for mayor and was elected, he put his assets into a blind trust so that he wouldn't be tempted to do things as mayor that could arguably be in his

00:28:25.040 - 00:28:40.820

own best interest. Um and I was the trustee of the trust. So I ran his businesses for six years while he was the mayor. Um at that time we had two year terms and three and he ran for three different times and was elected each time,

00:28:40.830 - 00:28:57.510

almost always by huge margins, he was extremely popular mayor, uh, among other things before he became mayor, he had been head of the texas highway department for several years. He has been head of the Metropolitan Transit Authority here in metro here for a few years and

00:28:57.520 - 00:29:17.370

um, so he was very well known, very well regarded and his boyhood hero was always franklin Roosevelt, although his business dealings made him, you know, lean towards republicans. Houston mayors are elected in nonpartisan basis and don't run by party. And so he was able to bridge

00:29:17.380 - 00:29:37.380

that gap and appeal to really both sides of the community. Great, do you, do you have a favorite Marilyn your story that you like to tell? Um, no, only that, you know, he, uh, well, I guess the one I would, I would emphasize is the one

00:29:37.390 - 00:29:58.770

about is demanding that more minority contractors would be used on city businesses. Um, and uh, he had lots of conversations with business leaders at the time, talking about their responsibility to take someone with whom they had worked and had a good relationship who happened to be

00:29:58.770 - 00:30:14.720

african american and helping them start their own business and using them to be the subcontractors on deals and so forth, rather than working for them to help them start their own business. Um, and so he pushed very hard for that to happen and worked in numerous

00:30:14.720 - 00:30:34.820

cases where people began to be able to build up their own equity in the business is they don't. Yeah, great. I'm realizing now that we forgot to talk about, um, when, when Mickey Leland died, I forgot to ask you about, you know, when, when Mickey Leland

00:30:34.820 - 00:30:52.340

tragically died. Your, your memories of, of how you found out and its effect on you. Um, well, it was very, very traumatic time for all of us. Mickey had been, um, one of his, uh, one of his pet goals in life was to try to eradicate

00:30:52.340 - 00:31:12.760

hunger around in the US and around the world. And um, uh, so he was the head of a congressional committee on Hunger and was delivering supplies to remote Ethiopia when his plane crashed. He and the other folks on board were killed. Um, you know, there was

00:31:12.760 - 00:31:31.150

a, several days of not knowing what had happened, The plane disappeared and uh, it took three or four days for them to actually find the wreckage. And um, so there was a long time of people unsure of what exactly had happened. Um, I remember it very

00:31:31.150 - 00:31:48.220

vividly. I was actually in biloxi, visiting my mother with my family. Uh, and um, when the word, you know, finally came through, um, that mickey had been lost, um, I got a call from his widow Allison, who said they had found the plane and no one

00:31:48.220 - 00:32:07.600

had survived. And uh, it was very, very sad time and uh, it led to a very, uh, sad funeral. Um, although mickey died doing what he would have wanted, what he wanted to do and the way he would have wanted to die, uh, is helping, trying

00:32:07.600 - 00:32:27.230

to help other people. Um, and also led to one of my least favorite experiences in that mickey's funeral, which was a very elaborate affair where Congress um, uh, Commandeered a couple of private airplanes and I don't know, 60 or 70 members of Congress flew down to

00:32:27.230 - 00:32:44.160

Houston for his funeral was at Texas Southern University. And so I was one of the speakers and they said to me, you know, here, here's your spot. You're gonna speak right after jesse Jackson to which I said, I don't want to speak right after jesse Jackson.

00:32:44.170 - 00:33:00.560

I'd like to speak before jesse Jackson. Nobody wants to follow jesse Jackson. But nonetheless I had to, so I did the best I could under the circumstances. Right? Yeah. No, he was, he was a special man Nicolle London. His memory lives on in the internship that

00:33:00.560 - 00:33:20.580

you, you know, continue to, um, see through, we've done this in mickey's memory really. And to try to uh, continue mickey's memory. And it's interesting, you know, that the, as the years rolled by the students we interview are less and less aware of the name. Mickey

00:33:20.580 - 00:33:34.920

Leland, although there are several monuments to mickey in town. Still less and less aware of that. And um, so part of what we do when we select these 10 interns is we run them through an education program before we put them on a plane and fly

00:33:34.920 - 00:33:52.520

them off to Israel including um, sort of a christian perspective on Israel, the current Middle East situation, the history of the region. But one of the things we talked about is um mickey and you know who he was and what he meant and other other really

00:33:52.520 - 00:34:14.080

african american leaders in Houston um, over the years and so that's been very, very enlightening to people too. Although frankly now, um, the, when we started the program 40 years ago I would say on an average class, they were six african americans, two Hispanics, uh, one

00:34:14.080 - 00:34:33.060

anglo and one something else was kind of the average class. Although we didn't have any quotas in terms of who we're picking today is probably four Hispanics and three african americans and two Anglos and two asians. If that number is up to 10. Uh, I mean

00:34:33.070 - 00:34:51.710

the, the composition of the people who go have changed dramatically partially because the 18th congressional district, which mickey representative is now represented by Congress member Sheila Jackson lee has changed dramatically over that time as well is branched out from being simply an inner city district to

00:34:51.710 - 00:35:09.940

a much broader district, including some parts of West Houston and as well. Right. Sure. Um, Kenny, can we talk a little bit more about your broader involvement in the, in the Houston, jewish community. Um, I know you've been involved with the local chapter of the american

00:35:09.940 - 00:35:26.850

jewish committee. Can you talk about that a little bit your um actually american jewish committee was one of Rubashkin is, is um causes, he felt very strongly about it and got me and lots of other young jewish professionals in town involved in the american jewish committee.

00:35:27.030 - 00:35:48.940

It always appealed to me because one of the, one of the things that the american jewish committee had done was um, there had been a a Nazi party march in Skokie Illinois designed to go through jewish neighborhoods in Illinois. And the american jewish committee had filed

00:35:48.940 - 00:36:06.710

an amicus brief on behalf of the Nazi Party's right to do that um, which always appealed to me as sort of the way this country ought to work and the way even interest groups ought to view how important our democratic institutions are. And so that kind

00:36:06.720 - 00:36:24.740

of uh, I don't know, sort of pragmatism, principled pragmatism, I guess I would call it always appealed to me. So I got very involved in american jewish committee. I'd become their local Houston chapter president and I became a regional president, which covered five states, served on

00:36:24.740 - 00:36:43.630

the national board of governors for several years and um, spent a fair amount of time in that capacity, uh, attending meetings and various meetings in new york and elsewhere and um, it's always a very um, enlightening and rewarding experience for me and what were, what were

00:36:43.630 - 00:37:02.060

some of the key issues, you know on the other in the local scene or the regional or national level during your your tenure in leadership, well locally was almost always relationships with other communities in in our community. Um and so american jewish community spent an awful

00:37:02.060 - 00:37:19.630

lot of time working on building relationships with black and brown and asian and other communities gay and elsewhere. That could be helpful that the A. J. C. Could be helpful to them in times of trying to help them achieve where they wanted to go in our

00:37:19.640 - 00:37:40.570

community here in Houston um nationally. It was like every national organization at that time, probably dominated by Israel matters, but also antisemitism in the soviet union and elsewhere um that the american jewish committee was involved in trying to eradicate american jewish committee works differently than other

00:37:40.570 - 00:38:02.360

jewish organizations. It's a very much behind the scenes quiet um uh advocacy group that doesn't seek publicity or headlines but tries to make things happen behind the scenes. And as I said over the years, they've been extraordinarily effective in that right. Very good. Um We should

00:38:02.360 - 00:38:22.390

move on and talk about your involvement with the Harris County Houston Sports Authority. Okay, well, um you know, I played a lot of sports growing up, sports has been a big part of my life. Um And um so when the Harris County Houston Sports authority was

00:38:22.400 - 00:38:38.620

started, which I I guess I'll take a step back and explain how that came about. So while bob Lanier was mayor, uh Houston Oilers left town because the city refused to build them a new stadium. Um The county had recently spent a fair amount of money

00:38:38.620 - 00:38:54.980

refurbishing the Astrodome where they played, but they wanted their own stadium, they didn't want a multipurpose stadium. And bob Lanier uttered the, you know, memorable lines of, you know, why should joe six pack have to pay for a stadium that's gonna be controlled by a billionaire

00:38:54.980 - 00:39:12.390

and played in by millionaires and you know, what's the equity of that? And um so the Oilers left town, they got a fabulous deal from Nashville Which in addition to paying for their moving, guaranteed them 10 years worth of sellouts in the stadium so that they

00:39:12.400 - 00:39:27.830

didn't sell the tickets, the city bought the tickets. Um so it was a great deal for Bud Adams, the owner of the, of the oilers. Um but they left and um there was a fair amount of conversation about maybe the rockets or the Astros leaving as

00:39:27.830 - 00:39:46.120

well, also who began looking for their own stadium. So said earlier was very smart and very savvy in politics. Put together the notion of the Harris County Houston Sports Authority and sold it in Austin to the, to the legislature and got the legislature to pass it

00:39:46.120 - 00:40:02.740

and basically it is that the stadiums here in town are financed by bonds that have been issued by the sports authority. It's a governmental entity that can issue its own bonds. But the bonds are paid off by hotel, motel, tax, car rental tax, and rental from

00:40:02.740 - 00:40:18.830

the teams who leased the stadiums so that there's literally no local taxpayer involvement in it. And um, which I thought was an absolutely brilliant way to do that. Um, when it began, Lanier asked me to chair it, I told him I didn't have the time to

00:40:18.830 - 00:40:35.490

do that. It was right in the middle of a major legal issues of representing several matters that were bubbling to the surface. And so I didn't have time to do it. But a few years later, his successor lee Brown, asked me to at least go on

00:40:35.490 - 00:40:51.710

the board if not chair it. In a couple of years after that, I became the chairman of it. So I've been chairman of it for about 12 years now and uh, it's been immensely rewarding, uh, in addition to building and overseeing the bonds that were issued

00:40:51.710 - 00:41:09.650

to build the stadiums, we've kind of morphed into a sports marketing operation for Harris County. Uh, so that sporting events that want to, a place to have a, have venues, we go out and hustle and try to bring them to town and we've been very successful

00:41:09.650 - 00:41:27.960

in doing that. Everything from, you know, a a you junior olympics, to um, olympic boxing trials, to, uh, we're the host city for the olympic marathon trials 10 years ago. things like that. So anything that being brings people to town that puts people's heads on beds

00:41:27.960 - 00:41:42.890

and rear ends and cars is good for us to help us pay off our bonds. Um it's good for the community because it's, you know, multiplies the impact of those out of city dollars. Uh So it's been a really, really successful endeavor in in those terms,

00:41:42.900 - 00:42:01.080

brought lots of business to town, revitalized the east side of Downtown Houston by building the baseball stadium and the basketball arena on the east side of downtown Houston um added, you know, millions of dollars to local coffers because of the taxes being paid by businesses over

00:42:01.080 - 00:42:20.300

there. And it's been it's been a really good thing for the community. Um So we're doing this interview with the, you know, the last days of of 2020 and the covid pandemic is still raging and I'm sure this has had an effect on uh you know,

00:42:20.300 - 00:42:35.360

all of the sports teams and businesses that that you just mentioned from the perspective of the, of the, you know, sports authority. How has, how has this year been and what, what do you think the outlook is looking moving forward? Well, this year has been challenging

00:42:35.360 - 00:42:55.720

for the sports authority along with everybody else. I mean, we've had of course numerous cancelations of events that were planned to be in Houston and which we were involved with bringing to Houston. Um So hotel, motel tax collections, car rental collections Are off dramatically from prior

00:42:55.720 - 00:43:13.420

years. At the beginning of this, we realized that this might last a while. And so we we did a new bond issue where we in effect moved out obligations for the next three years to the back end of our bond obligations so that we are very

00:43:13.420 - 00:43:29.290

comfortable that we can meet all of our ongoing obligations uh and bought ourselves two or three years of running room to get collections back up to where they otherwise should be. Um So we feel very good about that. We think we did the responsible right thing

00:43:29.290 - 00:43:46.290

to do in that regard. And um, you know, we're fairly confident that, you know, we will quickly get back to where we had been prior to this as soon as the world returns to some semblance of normalcy, which we hope is is not too far away.

00:43:46.780 - 00:44:07.930

Yeah, it's boy is it is it sorely needed? Um So, um, let's, you know, move now on on the theme of sports. Talking about your family a little bit more. Um and your son Andrew whose Los Angeles Dodgers just won the World Series just a couple

00:44:07.930 - 00:44:24.390

of months ago. Tell us a little bit about, you know, Andrew's involvement in in sports and and how he um got into the world of sports management and running a baseball team. So I have five Children, all of whom are wonderful and eight grandchildren who are

00:44:24.390 - 00:44:46.360

even better than their parents of course and that the oldest two girls, the next three boys. Andrew is number four of the five. And Andrew had had always been interested in sports really from the beginning and sports in general and baseball in particular. Uh, he very

00:44:46.360 - 00:45:00.380

quickly became quite a student of the game and was a very, very good player himself. He uh, in high school he was asked to play on a U. S. All star team that played in china uh, in a tournament in china. Um and so he went

00:45:00.390 - 00:45:19.000

to line on a baseball scholarship, uh, significantly better player than was his father. And uh, again like me about halfway through, he realized he wasn't going to be a major league player and so spent much more time paying attention in school and ended up doing really

00:45:19.000 - 00:45:34.740

well and ended up on Wall Street. Um, Kenny, he had gone to Tulane on a baseball scholarship just as you had. Right, that's correct, Okay. So he, he did play at Tulane and yeah, he did play Tulane, he was an outfielder and hurt a lot of

00:45:34.740 - 00:45:51.960

the time, but various injuries of one kind or another, but he did and I ended up on Wall Street at Bear stearns, the investment bank, Bear stearns where he did extremely well and then joined a venture capital firm in new york for a few years, but

00:45:51.960 - 00:46:11.020

it always had an ongoing interest in baseball and had spent a lot of that time sort of looking around for other baseball opportunity opportunity in baseball of one kind or another. Um It was very fortunate while in new york, he met a fellow had been at

00:46:11.030 - 00:46:27.690

uh Goldman Sachs, who was from Dallas was also a big baseball enthusiast. And um that guy's name is Matt Silverman said to Andrew um one day, you know, I've got this fellow who worked with me, he was looking to buy a baseball team and with your

00:46:27.690 - 00:46:45.590

baseball background, you know, I want to introduce you to him, Maybe you can help him. So he introduced him to a man named stu Silverman. And um and so uh I'm sorry stu Sternberg. And so stu Sternberg who eventually bought the Tampa Bay rays and when

00:46:45.590 - 00:47:02.620

he bought them, Matt uh and Andrew were his investment bankers on the deal. And so they handle that deal for him. And when he bought the raise, the managing general partner of the former ownership group said he wanted to do it for three more years, but

00:47:02.620 - 00:47:16.130

that uh as part of the deal he would agree to sell in three years. But uh Sternberg had sent down to people to protect his investment, a financial guy in a baseball guy. So Matt was the financial guy. And Andrew was the baseball guy, both of

00:47:16.140 - 00:47:36.620

them left significant amounts of money on the table and moved to Tampa florida uh And Andrew's role was assistant to the GM or some such. And um uh not surprisingly, the arrangement with the former owner lasted about a year and not three years. And uh when

00:47:36.620 - 00:47:52.320

they finally booted him out um Andrew became the general manager of the Tampa Bay rays at age 27. Uh and so as I tell everybody, he got a lot of publicity, most of which was why would anybody turn a baseball team over to this kid? But

00:47:52.330 - 00:48:08.010

he was fortunate. It worked out well for him. The team did really well um ended up in the World Series one year, but every year we're competitive even though their their payroll was a fraction of other teams. Payrolls, particularly in the american League East, which is

00:48:08.010 - 00:48:25.450

where they played because both the Yankees and the red Sox in the american League East. But Tampa played them close every year. They were competitive every single year. And um after almost 10 years of that, Andrew was hired away by the L. A. Dodgers in late

00:48:25.450 - 00:48:45.480

2014 to go take over their team. So he became the president of baseball operations for the Dodgers. Um and that's where he's been since. Right. And they've had a really incredible run of success, finally culminating in a world series and of course um in 2017, the

00:48:45.490 - 00:49:01.140

World Series featured the Houston Astros and the Los Angeles Dodgers. And so you probably more than any other person on the planet, found yourself in uh something of a predicament, right? You're on the, you're on the board, maybe even the chairman of the Harris County Houston

00:49:01.140 - 00:49:14.650

Sports Authority. And, and then your son is the general manager of, of the other team. So how did that play out? Well? It was, as you pointed out, it was a difficult time for us. Um, and uh, as I've told a lot of people, my son

00:49:14.650 - 00:49:27.040

created my 15 minutes of fame because I got interviewed by everybody right from, from the new york times on down about, you know, what in the world are you doing here here? You're the chair of the board of the, of the entity, that's the landlord of

00:49:27.040 - 00:49:40.090

these stadiums and yet your son is running the other team. And how are you dealing with this? And it kind of evolved into an answer which basically went along the lines of, look, I'm a lifelong Houston Astros fan and a 30 plus year season ticket holder.

00:49:40.090 - 00:49:53.740

It would be fabulous for this community for the Astros to win this World Series, but I'm gonna root for the team that pays my son, which everybody went, oh yeah, I get that, I understand that. So, um, Sports Authority has a suite in the stadium, which

00:49:53.740 - 00:50:09.690

we used to entertain dignitaries and things like that. And so before the World Series games in Houston, my wife and I would go to that sweet, about an hour, hour and a half before game time and would spend time as the host in the sweet, entertaining

00:50:09.690 - 00:50:23.010

people and visiting with folks and about the second inning, we would slip out and go into the stands and sit with the dodger families where our tickets were um, and watch the rest of the game from there. And uh, I tell people all the time. My

00:50:23.010 - 00:50:37.470

wife and I were the only people in the stadium who had no colors of either team on, we were completely neutral. And I was gonna ask if you had your Astros jersey and your Dodgers hat on or how you, how you managed it. Um, and of

00:50:37.470 - 00:50:55.590

course, you know, that that series went seven games and the Astros ultimately prevailed. And it was um, you know, later revealed that the Astros had been engaged in an elaborate sign stealing scheme which involved, you know, putting a camera in center field at minute maid park

00:50:55.590 - 00:51:11.230

to, to steal the opposing team's signs. I mean, talk talk just just as a, as a baseball fan, I'm interested in, you know, your thoughts on, on the scandal and, and how significant you think it is. Well, I think it's, you know, I think it's really

00:51:11.230 - 00:51:27.330

a tragedy for the Astros organization. Uh, and for the players, uh, the Astros were a great team. They didn't need to do that in order to be successful. Um, uh, I'm not quite sure how it evolved, but clearly at the end of the day, they were

00:51:27.330 - 00:51:44.840

doing things that were well beyond the pale and everyone in baseball knew it was well beyond the pale. I suspect that history is not going to be kind to the Astros. I mean I suspect they will end up being much like the 1919 Chicago black sox

00:51:44.850 - 00:52:04.180

um in in memory of people because of that, that cheating scandal. Um So you know, it's just it's just sad for me uh as an Astros fan that they have to live with that and the players have to live with that. Um for this period of

00:52:04.180 - 00:52:20.240

time, I think the most telling thing to me was not the Dodgers reaction to it or even the Yankees whom the Astros had knocked out and around before the World Series. Both of them were unhappy when they discovered what had gone on, but it was the

00:52:20.240 - 00:52:38.800

other players around the league. I mean the quotes from other players on other teams who weren't involved in that in those playoffs that year were very, very damning. Um for the Astros. And I mean I think that's the indication that most people have taken away about

00:52:38.800 - 00:53:00.350

how difficult that situation was, right. Yeah, well the Astros did nearly make it back to the World Series um in 2020 with with a new manager and but they were defeated by by Andrew's old team uh Tampa Bay rays who met the Los Angeles Dodgers in

00:53:00.350 - 00:53:19.980

the World Series of all things. All of this was, was unfolding, you know, during the pandemic. So you don't have 30,000, you know, screaming fans hanging on every pitch, you know, live as it's unfolding. So tell us about, you know, your perspective on this baseball postseason,

00:53:19.990 - 00:53:32.450

you know, as the Dodgers are making their run back to the World Series and ultimately, you know, triumphing. Did you, did you go to any of the games? Were you just watching at home? What were your conversations with Andrew like as it was all taking place?

00:53:32.460 - 00:53:47.290

Well, you know, it was a difficult year. Um it was great that the Astros almost made it back to the World Series. I mean they didn't have a terrific year, but they had a great playoff run and uh so you know, it would have been nice

00:53:47.300 - 00:54:00.680

I think um for the Astros to make it back all, I've had friends who said, you know, I probably wouldn't have been so nice because all of the national stories would have been on the 2017 about 2017 World Series and would have just brought it all

00:54:00.680 - 00:54:15.660

back up again. So you know, maybe maybe it worked out well for the Astros in that regard. Um but it was difficult for us again, the family because we were all still Tampa Bay rays fans from Andrew's time down there and his relationships down there with

00:54:15.660 - 00:54:32.150

all those folks who were like a family together um in Tampa and uh you know, we still feel very positively about all of those people. Uh it was interesting because I can't remember the Wall Street Journal of the time, but had an article when there were

00:54:32.150 - 00:54:49.240

four teams left, um, the Astros to raise the Dodgers and the braves, uh, the other three teams, general managers had all worked for Andrew at one time and so, you know, he really had his hand in all four of the teams in the finals for the,

00:54:49.250 - 00:55:07.680

for the championship. So that was, that was a nice tribute to him. Um, but the actual games themselves were played in Arlington, you know, just a couple 100 miles up the road. But we did not go primarily because the teams and the families of the teams

00:55:07.690 - 00:55:22.150

were quarantined in a hotel in the Arlington area so that while we could have gone to the games, we couldn't visit with our kids or grandkids while we were there, we could wave at them across the parking lot or something. And that just didn't seem to

00:55:22.150 - 00:55:37.140

have much appeal uh, to my wife and I, so we did not go. Our other two sons, our oldest son and our youngest son both went to several of the games there and both had the same report, which was neither of them felt terribly comfortable in

00:55:37.140 - 00:55:57.440

the stadium because although everyone had to wear a mask to get into the stadium once inside and once people began drinking mask went away and spacing went away and it was a very uncomfortable situation for them. And so, um, that just confirmed our decision was correct

00:55:57.440 - 00:56:13.890

not to go to the games, but it was hard, it's hard watching them on television and not being there. Uh they talked to Andrew several times during that time. And uh, you know, his goal was to was to eradicate the 32 year drought in L. A.

00:56:13.900 - 00:56:27.930

From winning the World Series last time. They had one was 1988. And so, um, you know, they were thrilled they were able to do it. Um, I think he's been quoted several times as saying, actually was feeling more of relief than it was of euphoria, uh,

00:56:27.940 - 00:56:43.680

to get it done, But um, but they were excited to get it done. And, you know, as, you know, I mean, playoffs in any sport relatively random, but in baseball more random than others, because uh, you know, in baseball, the best teams win 60% of their

00:56:43.680 - 00:56:56.850

games and the worst teams win 40% of their games. So if you theoretically put the best team with the worst team and played a five game series, the best team should win three and the worst team should win too. Right? So you put 2 60% winning

00:56:56.850 - 00:57:16.500

teams together and it's impossible to handicap that, right? Um, so, uh, so because playoffs are so random in baseball generally, um, you know, it's quite a relief to finally get there. Yeah, I'm sure hopefully you'll you'll have a chance to celebrate one in in person one

00:57:16.500 - 00:57:29.810

of these days. No question, no question. We're anxiously awaiting an opportunity to fly out to L. A. And or maybe to phoenix for spring training. We don't, we don't know yet. Yeah, I guess right. Spring training could be around the corner. I don't know how the

00:57:29.810 - 00:57:44.410

season will be, you know, affected, but that would be, no one knows yet. They don't, they don't know whether they're gonna start spring training on time in mid february or push it back and therefore push the season back and have fewer games again? Um you know,

00:57:44.410 - 00:58:00.860

probably more than the 60 they played last year, but less than 162 the normal season would have no one really knows yet. There's still sort of feeling their way along with the virus and with the negotiations frankly between the Players Association and the owners as to

00:58:00.860 - 00:58:15.480

how that all will unfold. Yeah, we'll have to we'll have to wait and see. But I imagine we'll find out soon. Yeah. And then and then what about, you know, you're you you and and during during this pandemic since last March. How has it affected you

00:58:15.490 - 00:58:31.200

personally? Um You know, these last several months. What what has this been like for you? Well, you know, we've we've tried to be as careful as we can be in terms of protecting ourselves during this time we've actually been exposed four different times to someone who

00:58:31.200 - 00:58:46.790

subsequently uh turned up positive. So we've had four different tests after those exposures, fortunately were negative each of those times. So it just goes to show you, no matter how much you try, you don't necessarily always accomplish that. It's been a great time for us in

00:58:46.790 - 00:59:01.410

many ways. We've had a lot, a lot of opportunity to spend time together. It's been great. Uh we've seen more movies on TV in a year than we've seen in, you know, 30 years prior to that. Um but you know, it's just, it's been fine, it's

00:59:01.410 - 00:59:15.370

been fine. We're both working from home and you know, it's been a really nice, really nice time. Sorry, we don't get to spend more time with the Children, although we have evolved into a system of visiting with the kids and grandkids from time to time, we

00:59:15.370 - 00:59:30.450

have meals outside in our backyard with every, every family gets its own table and so we make sure we're socially distanced and things like that, Every family goes into the kitchen and and gets the food and brings it back out, you know, one family at a

00:59:30.450 - 00:59:46.460

time kind of thing and at least so far it's worked just fine. Um so we feel good about that. We've also done that with friends a few times to the same kind of thing, uh socially distanced backyard dining. Um socially distant backyard dining is is, and

00:59:46.470 - 00:59:59.770

and how lucky we are that we live in Houston and you can do this in december. Absolutely correct. Absolutely correct. We just got a note this morning from some really dear friends who want to have a picnic in their backyard tomorrow night, in fact, right, because

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the weather's supposed to turn bad on Wednesday, so we're gonna, we're gonna go have a picnic in their backyard tomorrow night. So we're very fortunate to be in a city where we can do that. Yeah, I don't have to worry about blizzards and right, terrible, terrible

01:00:13.940 - 01:00:32.600

weather Kenny as you look back over a long and distinguished career, both in the legal field and um public service, right, being on the board of so many great civic organizations. I'm curious to hear what what do you consider to be your, your crowning achievement or

01:00:32.600 - 01:00:46.190

your greatest accomplishment? What what, what are you proudest of? Thanks josh. You know, I've been very fortunate being in Houston texas when I, when I have been here, as I said earlier, it's made a lot of successes out of a lot of very ordinary folks including

01:00:46.190 - 01:01:00.850

me. Um and I've been, we've been lucky to be, you know, managing partner of major law firms. I've been in house general counsel of major corporations over the years. I've, I've been on lots of different civic boards. I've been on lots of different jewish boards, but

01:01:00.850 - 01:01:15.760

but you know, I really think my proudest accomplishments are really twofold. One of my Children, I have five wonderful Children, all of whom have grown into fabulous human beings and I'm so proud of all of them. Uh, and they've done an even better job of raising

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my grandchildren, my great grandchildren. Um, so that's one thing the second is, you know, I've been fortunate, I've been married twice and both my first wife, Barbara, And my second wife Anne have been great uh, spouses for me. Um, and I've been together 30 years and

01:01:33.030 - 01:01:49.140

um, she's a fabulous helpmate and uh, partner in everything I do and I'm really fortunate to be married to her. Um, she has a wonderful sense of humor and a great outlook on life. She has both a law degree and a PhD in psychology and she

01:01:49.140 - 01:02:08.370

teaches meditation um, as a profession. And so she's always got the right perspective on almost any situation. Uh, so I'm very fortunate. I'm fortunate guy to have her in my life. Great, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate. This is a fascinating

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interview touched on so many different topics in, in southern jewish history, in Houston history and I'm sure people will be be watching and learning from it for years to come. Thank you so much. Thank you appreciate it very much. Thank you Bet bye