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SONG: Okay, I think the backup recording is good. MANCHESTER: I guess, do you want to start or do you want me to start? SONG: I think you started last time, so you should. MANCHESTER: Hello, I'm Alex Manchester.

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MANCHESTER: I'm here with Ashley Song and Dr. MANCHESTER: Illya Hicks. It's March 4th, MANCHESTER: 2024. MANCHESTER: We're just going to start off with

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MANCHESTER: some basic background questions and then move into MANCHESTER: the more substantial ones. MANCHESTER: Or maybe there will be some substantial things in these MANCHESTER: first ones.

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MANCHESTER: To start off, when and where did you grow up? HICKS: I was born and raised in Waco, Texas. HICKS: Like the whole life HICKS: story?

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MANCHESTER: Whatever you want to say. MANCHESTER: We'll probably ask you about your whole life story, but whatever comes to mind. HICKS: I was born in Waco, Texas. A HICKS: list of my parents: one was a

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HICKS: mechanic. He owned his own shop, and my mother was a factory worker. HICKS: She did cabinetry for travel trailers. HICKS: I HICKS: know my mother has a GED.

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HICKS: I think my father did not get a HICKS: high school degree, but he left. HICKS: I mean, he left school so he could take care of his family, I mean, HICKS: his mother and his siblings because his dad passed when he was young.

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HICKS: So my dad was born in 1920 and my mother was born in HICKS: 1930. Just to give you a sense of HICKS: where it is. SONG: Did any of them or anyone in your

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SONG: family in particular encourage or inspire you to SONG: pursue the field that you're in right now? HICKS: I guess, in a way. HICKS: They always encouraged academics.

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HICKS: That's one thing they did encourage. HICKS: They may not have had anything past the high school degree, but they HICKS: certainly encouraged academics from all their kids. HICKS: To explain, my parents were married to other people

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HICKS: before they got married. HICKS: So I have brothers and sisters 20 years older than me. HICKS: That kind of explains the age difference. HICKS: Like, somebody born in 1920 having a child that was born in

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HICKS: 1973. HICKS: My dad, HICKS: he was a mechanic, but HICKS: he used to tell stories like how the teachers really thought he was

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HICKS: gifted academically. HICKS: But he never got to HICKS: graduate, per se. HICKS: So in some sense, I guess it may come from him.

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HICKS: It may come from my mother's side. HICKS: But I was always pretty good at math. HICKS: I used to do problems. HICKS: I used to treat them like a competition.

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HICKS: Getting the best score and the fastest time and stuff like that. HICKS: They really encouraged me to be the best person HICKS: I can be. MANCHESTER: You touched on it a little, but could you say more about what you thought

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MANCHESTER: about your math and science classes in school? HICKS: They were interesting. HICKS: I had pretty good teachers all along. HICKS: Not

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HICKS: even mad, but there was one teacher that kind HICKS: of irked me, but other than that, I had pretty good math HICKS: teachers. I can say that I had really good math teachers. HICKS: Let me think.

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HICKS: Oh, I don't know if I can HICKS: tell you this story. HICKS: So in elementary school, HICKS: I would do my work, but I didn't really talk a lot.

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HICKS: One of the teachers thought I may have been slow. HICKS: So she went to my mother. HICKS: She was like, "no, he's not slow," and she asked me, "why HICKS: don't you respond to her?" I said, "well, her jokes are not funny," and

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HICKS: so she wanted to test me. HICKS: When they tested me, they actually found out I was gifted. HICKS: That's when I got put in gifted and talented classes. HICKS: So that's an interesting thing.

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MANCHESTER: Maybe this is the part you didn't want to tell, but do you remember what the jokes were MANCHESTER: that you thought weren't funny? HICKS: I can't remember it. HICKS: She wasn't that funny.

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HICKS: I just remember saying, I don't know, it just HICKS: wasn't funny. I was a quiet kid. HICKS: But one I didn't want to talk about, but I was HICKS: talking about, because it speaks to racism: I had a

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HICKS: biology teacher in the ninth grade. HICKS: We were learning about the priest and HICKS: how they used to use different plants and make hybrid HICKS: plants. And I asked, you know, mostly European

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HICKS: people doing these type of things; I don't see any Black people doing these type of HICKS: things. And she said they were in Africa playing with sticks. HICKS: True story. So HICKS: that was like a motivator, especially when I found out of all the

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HICKS: amazing things that African Americans do. HICKS: It really speaks to how you have to be careful HICKS: what you tell kids. MANCHESTER: What was the sort of

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MANCHESTER: racial makeup of your surroundings, your classmates, your teachers, adults? HICKS: Waco is predominantly white. HICKS: There is a good number of African Americans that live in Waco. HICKS: But most of the gifted and talented classes were

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HICKS: predominantly white. Very few Blacks. HICKS: Very few Hispanics. HICKS: I was probably the only African American in my calculus class. HICKS: There were probably two Hispanics in my calculus class.

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HICKS: And other than that, they were white. HICKS: T HICKS: here's a picture of me from the yearbook where I just do - I HICKS: always did the kind of lean because I could really

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HICKS: understand what they put on the board, while everybody was kind of struggling in HICKS: calculus. I was just relaxing, just writing notes. HICKS: But I did well in calculus. HICKS: They took a picture and they call it, or the calculus teacher called it, "the Illya

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HICKS: Lean". I don't know, I was just being cool or something. HICKS: I'll just relax. But she was a really good teacher. HICKS: Her name was Mrs. Moore, and she would really help the HICKS: students. And one of her aims were all the students

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HICKS: take the AP exam. HICKS: So sometimes, she would have HICKS: study groups at her home. HICKS: But I got a perfect score.

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SONG: Outside of school at the time, SONG: were there a lot of math-related opportunities, and if so, SONG: were you interested in any of them? HICKS: In high school?

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SONG: Yeah, outside of school. HICKS: Not really. HICKS: There was the HICKS: academic

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HICKS: decathlon. Oh, there was these HICKS: UIL competitions back when I was in junior high. HICKS: They had UIL competitions and math computations, like coming up HICKS: with the multiples of 25 or whatever.

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HICKS: So I did some of those. HICKS: But in high school, I played football. HICKS: So that took most of my time. HICKS: Sports in the early

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HICKS: ninth and seventh and eighth grade. HICKS: I was in band as well. HICKS: So I did other activities HICKS: other than math.

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MANCHESTER: How did you end up pursuing a career in math? MANCHESTER: Did you feel that you had other options? MANCHESTER: Or how did you end up doing what you ended up doing? HICKS: Yeah, it's an interesting story.

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HICKS: Like I said, I played football, HICKS: and my parents didn't really have a lot of money. HICKS: So I knew I needed to get a football scholarship to help them pay for school. HICKS: I got a football scholarship to Southwest Texas

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HICKS: State, or Texas State, it now is known. HICKS: And when I was little, I used to HICKS: draw. I had aspirations of maybe designing cars HICKS: because, like I said, my dad's a mechanic.

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HICKS: I had a fascination with cars. HICKS: I liked to draw them. I had my own little variation of a Cadillac car called, I HICKS: forgot what it's called. I liked to draw cars, so I HICKS: was thinking maybe I'll be a mechanical engineer or something like that.

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HICKS: But Southwest didn't have engineering. HICKS: So I say, "okay, what's HICKS: closest to engineering?" Well, math and physics. HICKS: So I majored in math and I minored in physics, thinking it'll get me close to being

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HICKS: an engineer. And also, I was HICKS: already good at math. HICKS: I got a perfect score on the AP calculus exam. HICKS: And that's why I was like, "okay, I'll just do a major in math and minor in physics".

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HICKS: And then when I tried to get some internships in engineering as an HICKS: undergraduate, they're like, "no, you're not an engineer". HICKS: I was like, "okay, what can I do?" When I first got to Southwest, HICKS: the Dean of General Studies, she was over the athletic

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HICKS: academic advisor. As soon as I met her, she saw that I had HICKS: this AP exam perfect score, and she was like, "you should go HICKS: to grad school." I was like, "ma'am, I just got here. HICKS: I'm a freshman." But I remembered that, so I went back

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HICKS: to her after I couldn't get some internships as an engineer. HICKS: I went back to her and say, "okay, maybe I should consider grad school." And so HICKS: she helped me prepare for the GRE and stuff like that. HICKS: So I'm indebted to her.

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HICKS: I forgot her name, but I'm indebted to her. HICKS: And then I also took a course in operations research in the math department HICKS: at Southwest. And that kind of piqued my interest, too, because they say HICKS: you can make money doing this.

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HICKS: And it's basically using math to make companies money. HICKS: Here at Rice, it would basically be CMOR 360. HICKS: Used to be called CAAM 378. SONG: You mentioned a football scholarship.

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SONG: Were you a student athlete? HICKS: Yes. SONG: What was that experience like? HICKS: In high school or in college?

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SONG: Both, why not? HICKS: In high school, it was fun. HICKS: You get to travel. HICKS: We were like a state contender.

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HICKS: We made it to the second or third rounds of the playoffs. HICKS: We had the leading rusher in the state at that time. HICKS: His name was Lewis Fight. HICKS: I was on the offensive line.

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HICKS: I was on the second team, all HICKS: district. I was an academic All-American. HICKS: It was really fun playing football and HICKS: also

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HICKS: doing school work. To me, it was just schoolwork. HICKS: But when you go to college, it's HICKS: totally different being a student athlete. HICKS: One, you can't go home.

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HICKS: You're there. And once you're there, they pretty HICKS: much in some aspects control every aspect of your life. HICKS: Because everything is kind of planned out for you in terms of HICKS: practice, in terms of study hall, all that stuff.

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HICKS: And then, you HICKS: quickly learn time management. HICKS: Because you have to do all of this for football. HICKS: But then you also have to keep up with your studies.

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HICKS: And football is very time-demanding, especially at the college level, very HICKS: time-demanding. In high school, you have practice after school and you go HICKS: home. That's it. In college, you have film, you have weight room, you HICKS: have all season.

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HICKS: It's very demanding. HICKS: I commend anybody that's a student athlete because they go through a lot. HICKS: In terms of the athletic program, but then also in terms of school and HICKS: getting things accomplished in both is amazing.

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SONG: Do you have any advice as to how to SONG: manage both the academics and the athletics? SONG: Because I know that's something that sounds very, very difficult. HICKS: You have to set priorities and you have to stick with those.

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HICKS: Be stingy with your time. HICKS: You have to be kind of detailed in your time and HICKS: stingy with your time to accommodate both. HICKS: So one shouldn't overlap the other, but you have to make time for

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HICKS: each one. So I did HICKS: that. And then I also went through a fraternity at the same time. HICKS: I just did a lot of things. HICKS: But you have to be strict with your time and like, "okay, I'm gonna

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HICKS: allocate this amount of time for this, this amount of time for this, this amount of time HICKS: for that." MANCHESTER: What was the academic side of your undergraduate experience like? HICKS: It was okay.

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HICKS: I mean, I enjoyed it. HICKS: I enjoyed my classes. HICKS: I had a very good academic career HICKS: at undergrad. It was pretty, I don't know, it was

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HICKS: cool. N HICKS: ow the difference between undergrad and grad is like, in undergrad you kind of HICKS: learn for the test. HICKS: Everything is more memory in a way.

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HICKS: And graduate school is actually you learn more from HICKS: understanding, because then, everything starts building on top of each other. HICKS: So you have to kind of truly understand the subject HICKS: to move forward. And I tell students, if you truly

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HICKS: understand it, you can explain it to your grandmother or mother HICKS: or somebody that's a layman right out of what it is. HICKS: You know, Uncle Skip, whoever. SONG: Speaking of grad school, what was your grad school experience like?

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HICKS: It was great, actually. I got my Ph.D. HICKS: here. I applied to Rice. HICKS: I only applied to a few places because I was really naive. HICKS: I didn't know where to apply.

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HICKS: I'm like, okay, I remember when my brother - I have a brother two years older than me - HICKS: when he graduated from high school, the valedictorian went to Rice. HICKS: So I said, okay, I know Rice is a good school. HICKS: Let me apply. That's all I really knew about Rice.

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HICKS: So I applied to Rice, got into Rice, really enjoyed myself here. HICKS: One thing about the graduate culture is, once you HICKS: get admitted into a program, the people there are pretty much HICKS: the people you're going to see.

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HICKS: You pretty much stay within that department and the faculty and the students for your HICKS: time here. And turned out I had very good mentors HICKS: and friends I made as a graduate student. HICKS: So when I got admitted to grad school, I said,

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HICKS: well, let me go visit my mother. HICKS: She wanted to visit. HICKS: I brought my mother down here. HICKS: I'm like 6'3, 6'4, big guy.

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HICKS: And I'm bringing my mother, right? HICKS: And we're visiting Rice and we're walking around and we went HICKS: up to Herman Brown. HICKS: Back then, that's where the department was.

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HICKS: And we ran into Dr. HICKS: Tapia. And for people that don't know, Richard Tapia. HICKS: And he said, okay, what are you doing for the summer? HICKS: I said, I have no idea.

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HICKS: Last summer, I was making hydraulic lifts at a plant or something. HICKS: He said, no, you're going to come here for a summer program. HICKS: We're going to get you acclimated for grad school. HICKS: Oh yeah, they're also having a conference for African Americans and the

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HICKS: mathematical sciences. HICKS: I'm going to send you to that conference. HICKS: It's in Berkeley. And so he told my mother, we're going to take care of your HICKS: little boy. And so going to that conference,

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HICKS: it's entering how little incidents change your life and change your trajectory. HICKS: If I never took the visit, never applied, never took the visit, never met Dr. HICKS: Tapia, I would have never went to that conference. HICKS: I met a guy named Bill Massey.

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HICKS: He used to work at Bell Labs. HICKS: He said, "you should apply for this graduate fellowship." Cooperative research graduate HICKS: fellowship, also known as the AT&T Labs Fellowship. HICKS: I applied for the fellowship, got the fellowship, paid for my graduate school.

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HICKS: All of this just from my interaction, you know, HICKS: small changes. So I'm appreciative of that. HICKS: I just had a good time. HICKS: Great people.

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HICKS: Some of the people I went to grad school with, they're like HICKS: the godparents of my son, and vice versa. MANCHESTER: Could you talk about some of the people who influenced you in grad school? MANCHESTER: Your mentors or friends.

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HICKS: Richard Tapia, of course. HICKS: I have to give a shout-out to Bill Massey. HICKS: I have to give a shout-out to my advisor, Bill Cook. HICKS: Wonderful guy. Great guy.

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HICKS: Really advised me on research and the things I wanted to HICKS: do. Bob Bixby. HICKS: John Dennis. HICKS: Yin Zhang.

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HICKS: Very nice people. HICKS: In terms of graduate students, Cassandra Maxwell. HICKS: She works for ExxonMobil now. HICKS: She's a bigwig for ExxonMobil.

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HICKS: My academic brother, Bill Christian. HICKS: He works for the NSA. HICKS: But for a few years, he couldn't say he worked for the NSA. HICKS: And so there's Pam Williams, Monica Martinez, Cristina

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HICKS: Villalobos. It was a great group of people that HICKS: really, everybody kind of cared about each other and looked out for each other. SONG: So I have a question as to what your SONG: field of research was in grad school, and if that's

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SONG: changed over time, or stayed the same. HICKS: It's mostly the same. HICKS: So I work in graph theory of graph algorithms, discrete optimization, and it HICKS: kind of satisfies my visual thinking.

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HICKS: Remember, I say I used to draw. HICKS: And graphs and networks are very visual types of mathematics. HICKS: You're looking at basically the relationship between things. HICKS: And it was, you know, it was ideal for AT&T labs that you can think of these cities and

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HICKS: telecommunication lines between cities and stuff like that. HICKS: But I still do work in that: I look at cohesive groups; I'm looking at HICKS: networks, which can be applied to many different applications. HICKS: Like I said, it’s looking mathematically at the relationships between things.

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HICKS: So I'm looking now at things in political science in terms of HICKS: political redistricting; I'm looking at finding cohesive groups in data networks; HICKS: stuff related to computer vision; stuff related to HICKS: some quantum stuff; machine learning, of course,

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HICKS: but there is a lot of different applications. MANCHESTER: How did you end up pursuing this area of math? HICKS: Yeah, that's an interesting question, because I'm trying to say, How did I link up HICKS: with Bill?

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HICKS: Yeah, it's interesting, because I'm trying to figure it out. HICKS: Like I said, my mom was in physics. HICKS: So initially, when I wanted to go to grad school, I wanted to do kind of more HICKS: mathematical physics, but I liked in

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HICKS: a way, visually graphs. HICKS: Secondly, is like, these type of problems are easy to HICKS: comprehend, but they're extremely hard to solve. HICKS: Right? If I talk about traveling salesman, you started particularly I know about

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HICKS: traveling salesman problem. MANCHESTER & SONG: I know about it, but maybe you can explain it? HICKS: Okay. So you start at, we start at your home, right? HICKS: say, Houston, Houston is our home.

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HICKS: And we have to visit all the cities in the United States that were population 500, HICKS: right. But once I visited the city, I can't go back to the city, the only city that I can HICKS: come back to is Houston. HICKS: So you want to do this in the shortest amount of time or

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HICKS: distance wherever you want to pick. HICKS: And actually creating that little circle is, eventually you're going to create a HICKS: circle. That's called a Hamiltonian tour. HICKS: And so finding the Hamiltonian tour that’s the minimum distance

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HICKS: is the traveling salesman problem. HICKS: So it's easy to kind of understand but the number of HICKS: possibilities is exponential HICKS: right? So as (n-1)!/2, the number of possible

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HICKS: solutions to the problem, where n is the number HICKS: of cities. MANCHESTER: What are some of the challenges you faced in your career? HICKS: I guess one challenge is work life

00:25:01.540 - 00:25:20.640

HICKS: balance. Another one is, HICKS: in some aspects racism still exists, HICKS: right? So overcoming that. HICKS: I mean, I've been doing that for my whole life, so it's really just part of who I am.

00:25:21.760 - 00:25:40.400

HICKS: But overall, I HICKS: haven't had that many challenges. HICKS: I mean, you have a challenge of establishing yourself as a researcher, HICKS: creating a good research program, increasing your visibility

00:25:41.220 - 00:25:56.500

HICKS: within the field. HICKS: And, just being a good person in camp by students, right. HICKS: So that's, that's another thing I care about students, I try to make the best HICKS: way for them and, and be an advocate for them.

00:25:56.700 - 00:26:11.680

HICKS: And so that's another reason why I actually chose to be a professor is because HICKS: of Dr. Tapia and Bill cook. HICKS: Because you know, they really cared about students. HICKS: And Tapia, of course, also cared about trying to increase the number of

00:26:11.840 - 00:26:32.060

HICKS: underrepresented minority students in STEM. HICKS: And so I kind of want to emulate that as well to try to help HICKS: underrepresented students get PhDs. MANCHESTER: So what are some of the approaches you've taken towards mentoring

00:26:32.490 - 00:26:46.390

MANCHESTER: students? HICKS: No, I mean, just talking to them being an advocate. HICKS: So being an advocate is not just mentoring, but it's also, you know, advocating for HICKS: them behind closed doors, right, opening doors for them that they may not have been

00:26:46.390 - 00:27:04.120

HICKS: aware of. HICKS: So after I graduated from Rice, I was a professor at Texas HICKS: A&M. In my first year as a professor at Texas A&M, I helped start the HICKS: minority issue forum for the professional society that I'm in, called

00:27:04.120 - 00:27:22.130

HICKS: INFORMS. So, I mean, that's a lot to take on as an HICKS: assistant professor. So it was me, Mark Lewis, who Mark Lewis is at HICKS: Cornell. But we were both assistant professors at that level. HICKS: And he was president, I was Vice President, and we helped create this, this forum, which

00:27:22.130 - 00:27:36.650

HICKS: still lasts today. HICKS: But yeah, to create avenues and stuff like that. HICKS: I get travel grants from NSF to support the travel of HICKS: minority students to attend INFORMS conferences.

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HICKS: I'm part of a professional development workshop with Valerie HICKS: Taylor, who's at Argonne National Lab for underrepresented HICKS: minorities, women, and people with disabilities in computing, HICKS: about you know, from being a PhD student all the way to being an associate professor.

00:27:58.050 - 00:28:10.670

HICKS: Right. So being an Associate Professor, how do you become full? HICKS: Or in turn going into leadership positions? HICKS: Assistant Professor postdocs, how do you get a HICKS: academic position?

00:28:10.670 - 00:28:28.870

HICKS: How do you traverse tenure? HICKS: All that stuff. So we cover all those things in that professional development workshop. SONG: So you said you worked previously at A&M? SONG: Were there any kind of differences or similarities between that and

00:28:29.050 - 00:28:48.770

SONG: Rice? HICKS: Similarities? I mean, there's…yeah. HICKS: I can definitely think of differences. HICKS: One difference is College Station is not Houston,

00:28:50.890 - 00:29:07.810

HICKS: right? I really enjoyed my time in College Station–he HICKS: people there were really really nice, and it was almost like a family HICKS: atmosphere there at College Station–Coming to Houston, Houston is the biggest HICKS: city, Right?

00:29:08.210 - 00:29:25.070

HICKS: So, outside of the job, HICKS: the people you knew HICKS: in conversation were more almost really close to family [in College Station]. HICKS: Here in Houston it’s a lot broader.

00:29:25.670 - 00:29:45.950

HICKS: You can't really say a lot of people are kind of like family per se, HICKS: but it has advantages and disadvantages. HICKS: Because being in Houston you got a lot of access to a lot of different things: HICKS: concerts, sporting events, Houston is a foodie place, a

00:29:47.870 - 00:30:03.230

HICKS: lot of things College Station did not have. SONG: So what about like in terms of academics and support? SONG: Would you say that those two were like, similar or different in SONG: certain ways?

00:30:04.260 - 00:30:24.080

HICKS: I would say both of HICKS: them are supportive because both of them are Research 1 institutions, so they want you HICKS: to be the best you can be. And in turn, HICKS: I would think it's similar in terms of resources too, there really

00:30:24.080 - 00:30:47.920

HICKS: wasn't that much difference in terms of support and resources HICKS: between Rice and A&M. MANCHESTER: How do you feel that that Rice has changed since you've been here? HICKS: It's changed physically a lot.

00:30:48.410 - 00:31:05.520

HICKS: Also it’s changed in the students in some aspects. HICKS: I think when I first got here, students were more kind of, HICKS: to me, they seemed more of a me-type attitude, and now HICKS: they're more collaborative.

00:31:07.240 - 00:31:24.960

HICKS: I could be wrong, but just, you know, kind of seeing the students now, it seems HICKS: way more collaborative and caring, as opposed to they were a little HICKS: bit more, “me, me, me, I gotta have this grade” HICKS: I mean, “me, me” type of thing.

00:31:26.170 - 00:31:43.220

HICKS: I could be wrong, but it seems more than they seem to be that HICKS: they're more well-rounded. HICKS: I'll say it like that. MANCHESTER: Have you seen these changes in the classroom?

00:31:43.220 - 00:31:53.600

MANCHESTER: And have you had to adjust your teaching? MANCHESTER: Or have you seen adjustments in the teaching as a MANCHESTER: result? HICKS: I teach them the same way.

00:31:53.660 - 00:32:09.490

HICKS: I've definitely HICKS: seen that in the classrooms, but the HICKS: way I teach them is roughly the same. HICKS: If they didn't like me back then that’s okay.

00:32:12.470 - 00:32:33.910

HICKS: As long as you do your best, because my whole HICKS: thing is I care about people, and I want the best for people, so if they don't see that, HICKS: what can I do? All I can do is do my best. SONG: During your time here as a professor, do you have any particular memories that stand

00:32:33.910 - 00:32:44.180

SONG: out? HICKS: Of what? SONG: It could be anything really, open interpretation HICKS: Okay, I remember the

00:32:47.160 - 00:33:05.330

HICKS: sit-in/lie-in around Willy’s statue related to HICKS: affirmative action. HICKS: I don't remember if I was a graduate student, or if I was a faculty member. HICKS: I probably was a faculty member, back then.

00:33:06.460 - 00:33:21.300

HICKS: I remember actually, when Duncan Hall was built. HICKS: And because as a graduate student, so when I came in ‘95, and Duncan HICKS: Hall was built in ‘96. HICKS: So all the grad graduate students in CAAM [now called CMOR], which was called CAAM back

00:33:21.300 - 00:33:36.330

HICKS: in the day, we was in the basement of Herman Brown, so you didn't know HICKS: what time it was during the day, it had no windows. MANCHESTER: My office is in the basement of Herman brown. MANCHESTER: [Laughter]

00:33:37.090 - 00:33:49.800

HICKS: You don't know what it is, it could be raining, you don't know! HICKS: And now we moved into Duncan Hall and all you got is windows! HICKS: Like “Oh! There’s the sun! HICKS: There’s the sky!” [Laughter] So I remember all of that.

00:33:49.800 - 00:34:04.980

HICKS: And I remember when they built the Rec Center. HICKS: I remember I used to play basketball with the football players when I was a graduate HICKS: student. I can't do that now, I'm getting a little old. HICKS: Yeah, I remember I had good times.

00:34:05.120 - 00:34:24.850

HICKS: That's one thing about Rice I tell people, you know, it's kind of like The Godfather, HICKS: you know, you try to go away and they pull you back in and pull you back in, but it's a HICKS: good pull! It’s a good pull! MANCHESTER: Could you tell us more about some of the background on the you said “sit-in/lie-in”

00:34:25.560 - 00:34:40.620

MANCHESTER: over affirmative action? HICKS: Yeah. I'm trying to remember like, HICKS: I remember we, we sat there. HICKS: This had to be with the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeal when they kind of got rid of

00:34:40.750 - 00:35:00.620

HICKS: affirmative action. It was something to that effect. HICKS: I can't remember exact dates or anything, but I remember we sat in HICKS: around Willy’s statue because HICKS: of it. And I think we had a die in too, we had a die in one time, but I can't remember,

00:35:01.960 - 00:35:19.700

HICKS: it wasn't with George Floyd, but it'd be like Trayvon Martin or something like HICKS: that. And we just laid down, you know, like we were dead. SONG: Were there any other notable events that happened at SONG: Rice that you remember?

00:35:22.620 - 00:35:38.190

HICKS: I can't remember. HICKS: I mean, some things are coming, and then some things not HICKS: coming. So. I think that's it. HICKS: I don't know.

00:35:40.000 - 00:36:01.830

HICKS: Unless something comes to mind, that’s about pretty much HICKS: it. SONG: Any memories maybe with teaching classes? HICKS: Oh okay, so I don't really remember teaching classes,

00:36:02.280 - 00:36:20.660

HICKS: I remember the students. HICKS: So I remember helping students get into grad school HICKS: and how excited they were about “Oh, I got into MIT or HICKS: so-and-so-and-so!” And I remember working with some students, a group of three

00:36:20.660 - 00:36:36.270

HICKS: students, females, and we got honorable mention HICKS: with Doing Good with Good OR [Operations Research] at a professional society. HICKS: And we was an undergraduate team, and we're competing against graduate students. HICKS: So I remember that that was a great accomplishment.

00:36:40.410 - 00:36:57.690

HICKS: And I guess I do have a memory in terms of teaching. HICKS: I remember arm HICKS: wrestling somebody, because it was like, two opposing HICKS: views. And I say, “Okay, what do you think?” And

00:36:58.150 - 00:37:19.290

HICKS: somebody say, “I think this way,” and I say “No, I think this way,” and I say “Well, HICKS: let's arm wrestle for it.” [Laughter] MANCHESTER: So thinking about teaching or mentorship? MANCHESTER: How, how have you addressed or overcome some of

00:37:19.360 - 00:37:30.790

MANCHESTER: the challenges in your career? MANCHESTER: And what advice do you have for younger people facing those MANCHESTER: challenges? HICKS: You know, be open minded, listen, be an active listener,

00:37:32.600 - 00:37:53.740

HICKS: and try to truly hear what people are saying. HICKS: And you know, because sometimes even in a critique, there's HICKS: things that can help you, so don't be closed minded to every HICKS: critique, and just try to

00:37:53.850 - 00:38:14.100

HICKS: find the good in every aspect, and that can help build you up HICKS: and help you be who you want to HICKS: be. Because the road to success is paved with failure, right? HICKS: You're gonna get rejections after rejections, like submitting proposals,

00:38:14.100 - 00:38:23.760

HICKS: you get rejected, rejected, rejected, and then you get a hit. HICKS: And oh! You feel good, right? HICKS: Then the next one rejects you and rejects you, and then you get another hit. HICKS: But you’re steady making progress.

00:38:23.810 - 00:38:38.440

HICKS: Each time you step, you're getting stronger, even from the reviews, you get some HICKS: things that you can help make your proposal better. HICKS: So that's what I was saying, kind of being open minded. HICKS: Because if I just take the review, “Oh, they didn't want me, they don't like my research,

00:38:38.440 - 00:38:54.760

HICKS: da-da-da-da-da” and be closed minded, I couldn't see the nuggets that they were HICKS: trying to give me to help me improve. MANCHESTER: Can you talk about some of the ways that other people's comments have MANCHESTER: influenced you as a researcher, as a professor,...?

00:38:59.280 - 00:39:11.460

HICKS: Not off the top of my head. HICKS: I mean, I’d have to pull old reviews back and see but, you know, HICKS: just certain things people HICKS: want to see.

00:39:12.820 - 00:39:28.780

HICKS: Another thing is being on a review panel, you can see what HICKS: makes a good proposal and stuff like that. HICKS: We were just talking about proposals, you can see what makes a good proposal, and what HICKS: does not, and how it's really subjective and based on

00:39:29.310 - 00:39:44.240

HICKS: people’s views and maybe some implicit biases as well. HICKS: So, it's the same thing with tenure. HICKS: You got some bean counters, you got some people who look at quality, and you have to HICKS: try to appease both.

00:39:44.550 - 00:40:01.280

SONG: Extending this to the general math and research community, have SONG: you kind of seen any changes over time in this community? HICKS: I have. I've seen more kind of embrace of diversity, HICKS: which is a very good thing.

00:40:01.600 - 00:40:18.480

HICKS: I mean, if you look at the history of math, it really wasn't that HICKS: diverse and they really was in some ways antagonistic to diversity. HICKS: So I've seen a very good embracement of diversity and gender issues HICKS: related to mathematics.

00:40:19.160 - 00:40:34.950

HICKS: And that's a good thing, hopefully that continues. HICKS: That's definitely a big change in math. SONG: So also, do you have any hopes for the future now that SONG: we're seeing this trend and improvement?

00:40:35.370 - 00:40:49.600

HICKS: Just keep it going, alright? HICKS: Each generation is gonna hopefully be better than the [last]. HICKS: Because, you know, some progress is slow, and some progress is fast. HICKS: But as long as it's progress we're making changes.

00:40:50.610 - 00:41:05.430

MANCHESTER: Do you have any MANCHESTER: hopes for your future? MANCHESTER: Where would you like your career to go? MANCHESTER: Any, any things you're trying to accomplish right now?

00:41:07.730 - 00:41:20.090

HICKS: I just want to be the best person I can be. HICKS: I mean, I do have aspirations. HICKS: I don't know. HICKS: I mean, everybody wants to be recognized for what they do.

00:41:21.390 - 00:41:41.190

HICKS: And so it’s just HICKS: kind of like that. I mean, it's not like I haven't been recognized HICKS: right? I'm a fellow of INFORMS, but there's other maybe prizes or HICKS: something, you know? Yeah, being a mathematician or being a

00:41:41.190 - 00:41:57.570

HICKS: researcher is kind of strange. HICKS: Because one, you HICKS: have your own self interest, but then two, you still got to be HICKS: humble. It's a strange

00:41:57.570 - 00:42:14.430

HICKS: animal. Some researchers are narcissists, but HICKS: some are not. I'm not a narcissist. HICKS: And then some, some people…but no, I don’t want to go there. HICKS: Okay, let's say this. I just want to be the best person I can be.

00:42:14.910 - 00:42:32.740

HICKS: I was about to go down a road where…because some people kind HICKS: of they give this or altruism, but in reality, HICKS: if you look behind the scenes, it’s really just for them. HICKS: So you have to be wary of those people.

00:42:32.740 - 00:42:56.830

HICKS: But, a word of advice for you two, HICKS: like shore up your emotional intelligence to where you can HICKS: try to understand people, HICKS: because relationships are one of the biggest things for success

00:43:02.890 - 00:43:13.540

HICKS: actually. You can't be successful alone. HICKS: I can say that. MANCHESTER: I think that's all the questions that I have. MANCHESTER: [to Song] Did you have anything else you want to ask?

00:43:13.540 - 00:43:23.750

SONG: I think that's all of the questions I've had too. SONG: [to Hicks] Do you have anything else that you would like to add that maybe we haven't SONG: asked? HICKS: No, I think I've just rambled on for a good thirty minutes.

00:43:24.760 - 00:43:36.800

HICKS: [Laughter] There’s probably some nuggets in there and there’s probably some garbage. HICKS: You can glean what you want out of that one. MANCHESTER: Thank you so much for joining us. SONG: Thank you so much.

00:43:36.800 - 00:43:46.990

HICKS: No problem. It was a pleasure. MANCHESTER & SONG: We have some Fondren merch for you. HICKS: Wonderful. Yeah. HICKS: Oh, thank you! I appreciate it.

00:43:46.990 - 00:43:53.820

HICKS: Y’all are both undergrads, right? HICKS: [to Manchester] No, you’re a graduate student? MANCHESTER: I'm a graduate student, yeah. HICKS: [to Song] And your an undergrad?

00:43:54.070 - 00:44:02.140

SONG: Yeah HICKS: And why? Why did doing the project, I guess because. HICKS: Well, it's not like it's, uh, rights anniversary coming up. HICKS: It's just.

00:44:02.840 - 00:44:18.670

MANCHESTER: No, this is just something that the math librarian at Rice, Kay MANCHESTER: Kolah, has wanted to do for a while and, you know, found some people MANCHESTER: to get started on it. HICKS: Oh okay, cool! In totality how many people are you going to interview?

00:44:19.430 - 00:44:33.160

SONG: So we were thinking like four per semester, although I think this semester, there SONG: is a possibility we might actually do more. SONG: I think we more time to do more than four. MANCHESTER: Yeah, it's meant to be sort of ongoing.

00:44:33.550 - 00:44:44.810

HICKS: All right. Wonderful. HICKS: Thank you for your time, I appreciate it. MANCHESTER & SONG: Thank you so much. HICKS: Y’all have a great day.

00:44:44.990 - 00:44:45.250

MANCHESTER & SONG: You too.