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Today is July 17, 2022. My name is Gina Matos, and I'm with the Houston Asian American Archive. Today, I'll be interviewing Houn Lee. Thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to talk to us.

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You're welcome. It's gonna be fun [laughs]. I'm excited. Okay, so diving into your early life, my first question is: what was it like

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growing up in your hometown, Iksan, in South Korea? Can you tell us a little bit about that? Mmm. I'm from Iksan and— that's a—like a city, but I am from little bit far countryside.

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I grew up literally—I can swim in the, you know, lake or I can swim in the stream. So, really kind of clean—farming and rice field. So, ginger grows and

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then—all of that really kind of countryside, far, far countryside. No factories, no kind of, you know, big city items and stores. It's just literally farmers' town,

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so. I had fun—a lot of time but my family, my parents, they were farmers. So, I normally help Saturday, Sunday afternoons, regular weekday, normally as much as I can—involve,

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helping, farming together. So, I like more likely rainy day. And [laughs] n-no outdoor, yeah, working labor. Okay.

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What specifically did your—oh, excuse me. Sorry, I was on a different question. Do you have any siblings? Do you have any memorable stories with them that you would like to share?

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I have a brother—younger brother and an older sister. Significant... my brother and I were very close each other. With all kinds of, you know, fun things. Water fighting, stick knife fighting, and then throwing mud

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together and building our castle. Hunting berries and then—all-all together with him. But he has handicap. He has a—let's see, which side...

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left-side thumb? He got cut when he was really young, infant, baby. So he cannot bend. And then—that's his handicap.

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And I have also cousin... cousin living the same town and cousin is—he's very severe handicap. So, he cannot hold his head

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straightforward. So, when the day he need to cut his hair, so—I was the one helper holding his hair, that way the barber can cut his hair. And then he wants to do baseball.

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So he cannot, like, focus. He—his body constantly moving. So, it's very—how do you say—there's a level 1-2-3-4-5—handicap of—level of difficulties—he is level five.

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And he can't speak straightforward. He has idea and-and—but he cannot— say he got to hold it like for example: "I-I-I-I-I-I-I want to-to-to-to-to-to go

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uh-uh-uh-uh—" it is like this. So, I spend my early ages, like, childhood, spend time with him, sleep over, play together… and yeah.

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And until the adolescence time. So, I look back—why I have compassion, I can easily hang around with people who need help and deeper understanding, I was thinking probably-probably

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one of the reason is my cousin. And then I have a younger brother also, so, the way I can—I normally—the younger and then the weaker people around me, I'm kind of comfortable.

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Along that line, what specific values were instilled in you or emphasized growing up? Mmm. I value the most, friendship. So, I had a chance to go to

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big city, which is Jeonju. Jeonju's kind of from my province. It's like a biggest city. So, normally, whoever want to go study better

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academically environment, they move to Jeonju. My sister, when she entered the middle school, she moved to Jeonju, and she studied. And then when time comes, I move to middle school, and I had a chance to go to Jeonju city.

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I refused to go. Because I convinced my parents I rather stay here with my friends. I do believe friendship is way more important than the city environment.

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So, although I was in the countryside, I-I was thinking—I don't know, nobody told me, but I was thinking friendship with a—like, sharing my feelings, emotion.

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Going through the adolescence time, I was thinking it is really important. So, I'm kind of stubborn. So, I stay in the countryside until middle school. So, I had a really close friend.

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And then every night, every lunchtime, I spent time with them and then talk about what it looked like [laughs]. Difficulty of life [laughs]. Anyway, that—you know, teenagers all same.

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Yeah, well I had a close friend—friendship. Mmm. Did your parents emphasize to you that keeping friendship was important, or to let yourself be

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open-hearted or compassionate? Did they instill any—did they teach you to be kind, open-hearted, anything along those lines? I think they kind of support me.

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'Cause I went home—I normally call my friend and I talked to him one hour and he called me back one hour. So, that times, calling itself is counting—like

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money counting. So-so I call one hour and then-then we hang up, and then he called one hour, that way we barely spend the money just talking on the phone. Because we didn't have a cell phone that time.

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So, it's like home phone—my parents normally like, you know, kinda little bit fussing: "Why you using phone so long?" But then they really didn't, you know, push me hang up. So, they were like: "You so strange.

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How come you're calling [laughs] your friends TWO HOUR ON THE PHONE?" It was like—I think it's very normal to girl, but it's kind of abnormal to boys that time. Anyway [laughs]. But—and then-then I sleepover to my friend's house

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one week in the-the summer break, summer vacation. It's kind of—they—my parents kinda—I don't know—it was okay for them to stay one-one week in my friend's house. Anyway.

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Who would you say are your most notable mentors in your life growing up? I really—I thought I never had a mentor. But now

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I'm thinking, whenever I have a trouble, I call to Korea. And I was on the phone with my mom around one hour. I think my mom was the mentor [laughs]. And she was always saying not much—she only graduated

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elementary. But somehow, she was keep on talking to me: "I trust you." And she was keep on saying: "Oh, whenever you—I start something, I see you never give up." That was—like,

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my mom's always saying this: "Oh, whenever I look at you, you never give up. You—whatever you start, you keep on going until to the end. And you don't really stop middle of the way. 'Oh, I don't like it. I don't give up—I-I want to give up.'" I didn't

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know, but my mom was keep on saying, repetition again and again and again and again. Then, until I believe: "Wow, that's who I am. I don't really give up. I just keep on going no matter what it is.

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Even though there is difficulties, I keep on going. That's my personality." But I think that's my mom's good tactic, you know, how to support young teenager easily go up and down.

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I'm very emotional. My mom keep on saying: when I'm happy, I'm an angel; when I'm not happy, I am devil. So, there's no middle ground. That's, like—still my mom is saying same thing: "You like an angel from heaven."

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And then-then, again, when I get, you know, emotion get twisted, nobody can stop me. I just keep on going. Just like driven by emotion. When my mom—still a wonderful woman and she mentioned like that,

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then I keep on asking: "Really?" And she say: "Yes. You were horrible that way" [laughs]. Anyway, that—I still probably—it helped me to think when I get kinda frustrated and mad, emotionally twisted,

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that I'm thinking: "Oh, I shouldn't do it again." "Oh, I was—now what I am, I shouldn't do." So, it's kind of—yeah, my mom, I could say. So, would you say that you grew up in a sort of

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non-emotional household? Were your parents emotional as well or were they quite the opposite? Oh, my mom, my dad, very emotional.

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I think we had—every other day, there was a conflict. My mom, very strong ego. My father was a very strong egocentric. And they believe, each of them, they believe they're right.

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And then-then, they're strong enough to physically wrestle together, verbally attacking each other, and then it last all the way several hours. And I grew up that way—that's why I easily catch

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the—what is the emotional, you know, conflict when—not only my parents, I see it in people—they argue or, you know, emotional crash each other and I can see: "Oh, what is the cause and then who actually saying what?

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Why they get mad at each other?" Probably, that's the one [laughs] beneficial part. I grew up that way. That's why probably I'm very also emotional and I'm very sensitive—catching people's emotion. And—probably one of the

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reasons I tried to disguise somehow my parents unhappy marital relationship, because of the poor condition—everyday hardworking labor, and then kinda push them and corner them.

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And there's no way, just easily explode and, you know, emotion, and then yelling each other. It was because of a poor and-and, you know, tough time. But then, I, myself, go outside, like, just pretend I

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am happy and exciting. And-and pretend my life is like—but then, the other side of me is actually I carry every day—there's some kind of, you know, burdens, appearance,

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poor relationships, poor understanding each other. Thank you for sharing that. So, moving on more into your education, did you like school growing up?

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Mmm. I like friends. Studying, I don't—I never feel it was difficult until middle school. In countryside, nobody really, you know, study. So, you studied a little bit and you were quite higher rank.

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So, I was considered a good student, good at math and science. Yeah, but high school, college prep high school was very tough. And then, in the city, Jeonju—and then I moved to big city.

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For the first time separate—separation from my parents, and then living by myself, and not knowing anyone around me. And then, a bunch of people from Jeonju, majority of the college prep students in my classroom, but I'm kinda

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from countryside. And I think I spend hard time catching up the cultures and new environment, and-and the difficulty of rigor. Yeah, I spend hard time to catch.

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And then, they call my parents eventually. Why score is—why my score is not-not that good. Cause I—first test, out of 55, my classroom—my rank was 48, something.

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So [laughs], teacher—homeroom teacher call my parents. So, my mom came all the way from the countryside to the city, taking the bus, and then go to another bus station, and then exchanging another bus, and then

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one hour, and then got off the bus, and then walk all the way to school 20 minutes. So, it was a long way. I feel so shameful, because of my irresponsibility causing a trouble. So, that time I turn around, I start studying.

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Every test, middle—midterm and final, midterm, final, midterm, final, I move up to 48 to 43, 37, 32, 27,

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22, 17, 12 up to rank 7 in the classroom. And eventually I move into the honors class. Yeah, and then-then, I-I moved from almost bottom of the school

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to the top tier class at the end of my senior year. Anyway, I moved a little bit, little bit, little bit every-every test. So, did you always like science and math because you were good at it?

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Or because—was there something specific about those subjects that you like? Or a combination of both? Mmm.

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I don't actually know why. Math, science, it just feel easy [laughs]. But I had some event when I was middle school.

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There was a—I-I was in the first—middle school, there was a freshman, and the first grade, second and third grade in middle school—three year program—first grade middle school, I normally came late to school.

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My teacher get mad easily. I mean because I came late, like, tardy to the school. Before the class start, I should come to school a certain time. But I came late.

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And then, because of that, teacher get mad at me. And there was a penalty, because I—the teacher told me I am smart enough to go to college, but I'm lazy. So, that way he was—want me to change the pattern.

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So, he gave me the new routine: if I'm late, I get punished, raise my hand above my head. And then-then, the day I was mad at my mom: "Mom, you prepare the meal late.

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If I eat this, I'm going to be late. If I go late, the teacher already told me I got to raise my hand in front of the class." And then-then, my father heard the story. And he was so mad.

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And then-then, he came to school, argue with the principal, argue with my teacher, and whole school was kind of, like, flipped by my father. So, it's, like, my-my father become public enemy. All the teacher, whoever,

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came to my classroom, mentioned about my father, even though I was sitting there. And then, I understood. I know my father was so impulsive. Loving and caring, and then, different, you know, expression.

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But somehow I was—I had a difficult time. And, like, with the senior groups—and they would mark me down, make fun of me and the one teacher never stopped mentioning my father.

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Whole year. And I never participated in that class. That was English literature class [laughs]. So-so it's like Korean language class, right?

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So—like, here, an American English class. So, she's-she's teaching Korean class. So, writing class. And she was teaching again and second year, and she was teaching all three years.

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And our whole three years, she never call my name. And I never participate. All three year, just keep talking about how poor my parents was. The acting at school,

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like, mistreating teachers. So, I lost all that passion. Probably that's the time I choose, like, literally move, like, lean toward math and science.

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Right. Yeah. So, you acquired your bachelor's and master's degree in engineering in South Korea. I wanted to ask: what was your experience in attending Jeonbuk National

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University? Did you like the experience or if you could just share any defining moments or memorable stories? Mmm. I-I-I always dream about going to engineering college, Jeonbuk National University.

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Because there was the—my countryside, hardly, hardly, hear someone going to college. I grew up that way. So, I dream about always: "I want to go to National University, an

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engineering major." And then-then—that was my dream. And no one told me: "You could do better than that." I never heard [laughs]. I always thinking from the middle school: "Wow, if I

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could, it's gonna be fantastic." And it happened to me. So, I enter Jeonbuk National University, engineering college. And my mom wanted me to be a teacher. And I say: "No, that shouldn't be

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man's job. I don't want to be a teacher at all. I will be engineer like a man—" something like that [laughs]. Because I was-I was good at math and science, and then I really love physics. So, I was really good at physics too.

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So, thinking I am perfectly ready and fit to engineering. But it wasn't. Anyway, it was-it wasn't that bad. But when I study in the master degree program, sitting in front

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of a gigantic machine and put all this specimens, and testing, writing 24 hours, just barely sleep a little bit and wake up and do it again, all that writing the paper, experiment—it was so difficult.

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Like, I realized it-it might not be my permanent job [laughs]. I-I was doing something—tutoring in the private institute, I was teaching, and amazingly, whoever

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I taught, their score dramatically changed. I was good at motivating, and giving stepping stones, and move up to the higher academic levels. So, I have one example.

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The student was the bottom number one student out of 300, her rank was 298. And I taught her one year, she moved up to top 10. So, all this experience was

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kinda encouraging me maybe— that's not my—engineering may not be my forte. I was thinking. There's another reason actually.

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I changed my profession, like, I decide to not go to engineering, it's maybe God's guidance. Because I apply to research institute once I graduate. All the Korean male must finish military service.

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And they go normally after freshman year of college, undergraduate or sophomore year, they go to military program, they come back after two years. I didn't do it. I just went through all the way, finished my four year college, I went to the master's degree. Those people could get an opportunity,

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five year research facility. And then, I tried to go, apply to 2-3-4… four places—1-2-3—yeah, four places. And all four places, first time, they say yes.

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They call me: "Wow, we congratulate you." And then, once they figured it out, I didn't finish my military program: "Oh, I'm sorry, we cannot hire you." So, that—and eventually I-I decided to go to military program as a marine,

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two year and two months. While the time, 26 months, I read a bunch of books, I thinking rescheduling, reconsidering, rethinking what could be the best for my life: "What is my forte?

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And rest of my life, I can spend my time—I can be the best." So, I went through many counselings and reading the book—I decided to go back to counseling and teaching adolescents.

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That was the time I moved into the engineering, I got out of the engineering. Yeah. We will get back to the military service in just a second. [HL: Mhm.] But at your university, were there any

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organizations or anything like that that you ever participated in, if there were any available? Mmm. In college first... I-I

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wasn't good at English. Of course, not only English, Korean writing English was, like—yeah, oh, like, literature, I wasn't good at it. I was good at, like, numbers, like, law, physics.

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I was thinking I need to develop my English. So, I was—I joined English club, but the club was run by church organization that's a CMI. So, I involve English club

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with the leadership. But then, later, I involve in Christian organization. And I was atheist, but I got a chance to study

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Bible, but it was just—it wasn't, like, easy for me, because I was-I was atheist, like—how many years— 18 years. All of a sudden: "Okay, alright, I'll study Bible—" it wasn't. I was thinking college is something amazing experience

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will fulfill all my desires. So, I endure all this studying, studying, and studying, and studying. When I enter college, I was expecting something, something philosophical, something mature, something professional.

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Nothing was there [laughs]. So, I struggle finding identity, who I am. So, I joined the student movement. And then, you know, they do demonstrate against government,

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reading the book, join the meeting. I joined the student council in my major, in engineering. I join bowling club, I rolled the ball. I joined the traveling club.

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And then, I found out they're very meaningless. Meetings and words and conversation. I get bored. And I was thinking maybe there's something I miss.

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There was time, I was thinking: "Maybe I need to study Bible." I was questioning myself: "Why? Who I am? How can I define myself? One day, I feel so important.

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Another day, I feel insignificant. Why?" So, there was time. And I think that's normal—graduate high school and entering freedoms, and then, so many—so much time

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and so many things pulling you, and all of a sudden, you cannot figure it out who you are. So, I-I think I face same thing. And then—so, I decided to study Bible.

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And if it's not, I'll move on to the next one. There I study Bible. They call it "a one-to-one Bible study." I had a Bible mentor, teacher. He was a same—a master degree engineering.

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He was in a master's degree program. And then, he's helping me once a week. Now he's actually a pastor in Japan. He has his own church.

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He finished his seminary program, and then he became a pastor. He went to a missionary, to Japan, and then, now he's pastor. And he was the—my Bible study teacher.

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You were—you mentioned that you wanted to practice your English while you were in college. [HL: Mhm.] I wanted to ask: when exactly did you start learning English? And were there any challenges along the way in

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acquiring English as a second language? In Korea, my time, we study English from middle school. So, middle School, three years, high school, three years, for a total of six years. And then, it's all, like, reading, reading, reading

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and grammar. So, speaking English is very difficult to Korean, because there's a pronunciation, like, especially teach "th" sound and "l" sound, we really don't have those in the practical Korean speaking. So, my English teacher,

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her pronunciation is beautiful. And it was this—you can—like even—I don't know an American for perspective—I don't know. But all Korean college students, when they hear

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her pronunciation, it was like: "Wow, she speak like American." So, that kind of encouraged me to sign up her English class. And then-then, so, I learned all—more likely freshman year, I learned through her.

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From the sophomore and junior and senior year, I had friends in the-in the church organization, my same age group. We-we study together. And then-then—yeah, we memorize

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scriptures, we meet at night, we pay the penalties—whoever missed that, like, memorization piece, English dialogue. Like, it was fun together. And then-then, senior year, I join Winter Universiade

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in 1997—it happened in Jeonju. So, I was volunteering as an interpreter. So, yeah, somehow I overcame my fear [laughs].

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So, going into your military service again, you fulfilled your mandatory military service from 2001 to 2003? [HL: Right.] So, I was going to ask: what was that like for you? And if there were any challenges or lessons

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that you learned, just anything you want to share about your experience? Mmm. I went there—it was 2000—2001. So, that was my 27—I was 27 years old and the Korean age of 28

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years old. So, mostly, the military service, the majority of young people, they join 18-19. And I was 28.

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So I'm 10 years older than most of them. Korean society is very unique, because of the age, it's like—it's a kinda hierarchy system by age.

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You're older, and you have authority. But I'm older, way more older than them, but I am, like, as a military rank, I'm a lo-lower rank. So, they would kinda struggle to handle

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me. The first time they was like: "How do I need to call you? How do I need to treat you?" Because I'm already a master degree of engineering, and I married—10 years older than them.

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Anyway, kinda, like, awkward situation many times. Sometimes I couldn't control my temper, like, mistreating soldiers. They're the rank—because they have a high

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rank and then, like, bullying the lo-low rank. And I-I cannot—I don't know how to express in English—I shouldn't say something to them because of their higher rank. But I say something, I rebuke, and then I refuse

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what they say. You know, in Kor—in-in the military, I think it's normal—I don't know other place—I packed up all my bag, like, a, you know, as you-you put in everything in a full size, and then with a helmet with a-with a M-16,

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with everything I wear and equipped, and then run the playground in the military until-until the officer says: "Stop." Because that was my punishment. The military is sometimes weird

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[laughs]. A lot of weird things. I cannot say everything, but someone licked my ears. Oh my goodness [laughs]. And then-then, sleep in the same, you know, same room,

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like, all my unit was 40… 40 soldiers sleeping in the same room. And then one person snoring so loud [laughs], everybody suffer.

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I don't know I did or not? I kind of… one of them? I don't know, I wasn't that loud, but I heard—they say I snore [laughs].

00:40:47.340 - 00:41:05.600

Anyway, there was a—my military experience, there was difficulties. But also, it helped me to regularly visiting military library and read the books.

00:41:06.930 - 00:41:25.850

And then it helped me to focus on routine. I was always—at night, 10pm, I took my English TOEFL grammar and vocabulary book, I went to the restroom and sitting on the toilet. And then there is a water tank, I put the English

00:41:25.900 - 00:41:44.290

book, and I study every night. That way I prepare—because I had-I had a plan—I will be missionary. And I want to go to other country and I want to see how it goes. So, I wanna keep on studying.

00:41:45.600 - 00:41:59.300

So, though I was in the military, I still study. Because 10pm, everybody must sleep. No exception. So, I'm going to restroom. So, I went to restroom and then there I study everyday—every night.

00:42:02.280 - 00:42:16.670

It just helped me build my routine. I wake up in the morning everyday and I write ten thanks topics. It kinda helped me to keep my mental, mental condition

00:42:18.220 - 00:42:33.880

and spiritual condition. And... eat well, sleep well. I write—I wrote the letter once a week to my wife, and my wife did to me.

00:42:33.980 - 00:42:54.970

So, we had exactly—it was 56 weeks, two years—112 weeks plus eight so weeks—so—120 weeks—so, we have 120 letters exchanges,

00:42:57.810 - 00:43:17.430

my wife and I. There was one event. My-my—I—it's memorable, because in the military, every year there is,

00:43:20.440 - 00:43:35.170

like, a field day. You say in America "field day," right? They put the—all the, like, soccer, basketball, and then-then, like a-like a together jump rope military style, like, you know,

00:43:35.240 - 00:43:52.250

like, a team jump rope. There were-there were items and I was—my-my—I don't know how to say we are—my unit. We never, never won that field day competition.

00:43:54.250 - 00:44:14.190

In the history of 50 something years, I heard like 30 or 40 years ago once. Because we were in the headquarter part. So, mostly they were writing something related to document job. But other unit is a combat unit

00:44:15.840 - 00:44:32.570

that everyday trained physically. But we're not combat unit, we're headquarter unit. But when I was leading my unit, we won that title [laughs]. Anyway, so interesting.

00:44:33.380 - 00:44:52.010

So, I realized leadership is so important. Put together, even though physically weak compared to the combat unit, but when we are together as a team, we could have beat the

00:44:53.090 - 00:45:08.400

like a-like a muscle, power, tall—like all these combat unit. And then, there were three combat units, and then headquarter unit. So, we beat the three team—three combat units.

00:45:08.950 - 00:45:27.240

Anyway, so that was a-that was a big kind of experience. And it happened-happened. You mentioned that you wrote letters to your current wife

00:45:27.350 - 00:45:41.740

while in the military. If you don't mind sharing, would you like to share a brief—or briefly share the story of how you met your wife? Mmm. I met my wife—I-I

00:45:47.430 - 00:46:02.690

saw her when I was freshman, because her name and my names are very similar in pronunciation. My name is Houn, her name is Hoyun. So, my name and her name also very

00:46:02.690 - 00:46:18.880

unique. Not very common name in Korea. So, I opened the telephone books. I tried to find whoever has my similar name in my town. Nobody. But when I-when I heard someone has similar name, and

00:46:20.160 - 00:46:39.650

then kinda, like: "Wow, I want to see her, but I never really get a chance to talk to her." But when I was sophomore year, I met her for the first time. I was living—the-the place was the third floor—there's

00:46:41.180 - 00:46:56.370

a place, I stay there. And then, there was an underground part—there was a karaoke. There was a karaoke, you know, rooms.

00:46:56.900 - 00:47:14.930

And my wife was going down to there, I was going up there, and we met each other: "Oh, you're the person named Hoyun." "Yeah, are you Houn?" She heard about me, that was the first time. And I met her again when her father passed away, when I

00:47:14.930 - 00:47:34.590

was senior year. And there, I-I went to funeral, because she was a church member. So, the church—the young people went there and tried to support. But then we all there, all these young guys there, and

00:47:34.590 - 00:47:52.440

then-then, my wife's sister—older sister—found out I had a similar name with my wife. And she told in front of everybody: "Wow, what a destiny. Why don't you marry each other?" That was [laughs]-that was-that was,

00:47:52.440 - 00:48:13.930

like: "What?" So embarrassing. But, later, I was in the sell—the Bible group, small group. I was leading the small group, and then, she

00:48:13.930 - 00:48:32.430

joined as a coworker. And then, that was-that was the time I kinda for the first time: "Wow. She has a, like, you know—" my wife—not appearance,

00:48:33.180 - 00:48:48.220

but her personality and then, integrity that was so very unique, and very responsible and very sincere.

00:48:50.400 - 00:49:09.130

I never consider still as a future wife. But, I was reading the book, my age 24-25, I start reading the book about family, and how the family structure, how to prepare being a father,

00:49:10.520 - 00:49:27.090

and all that I start putting my attention. And then-then, I saw my wife that time. "Wow. She going to be—" I was thinking: "She going to be a good wife" [laughs].

00:49:27.460 - 00:49:51.280

Anyway, that was the time—25… 25. So, you—jumping a little bit ahead to 2005, you mentioned you migrated to the US, to Houston in 2005.

00:49:52.050 - 00:50:10.220

[HL: Mhm.] If you don't mind explaining, why did you move and how and why did it happen? Mmm. I-I finished my military service, and I was supporting

00:50:12.430 - 00:50:28.490

campus ministry and, like, college student. And… my wife had a job as-as a landscape architect and in counseling

00:50:30.700 - 00:50:47.110

and consulting, the big size—but she is government officer, high paying job, very stable. And I was doing also private tutoring. I'm quite, like, famous tutor

00:50:49.110 - 00:51:05.600

and I study adolescents licensed program. And I want to keep supporting college students in the matter of gospel, and support them, teach them, help them to be the future leader—Christian leader.

00:51:08.540 - 00:51:26.480

But some of my church pastor decide not to, not to do campus ministry. And then I have no choice. I need to look for other place.

00:51:28.470 - 00:51:51.350

But I was originally planned to go to missionary and mission field—other country. That time, the pastor I know— right now, actually Sister Maria's father— he told me to go to America

00:51:52.600 - 00:52:05.710

as a missionary. So, there is a— first told me to go to Washington, DC. There is a missionary, Peter Jeon—Peter Jung (?). He is, right now, the

00:52:08.330 - 00:52:24.630

president of a seminary school. And then I may go and then help him. And he needed help and it was— it changed to L.A, because missionary Abraham taught.

00:52:25.540 - 00:52:39.220

So, L.A CMI chapter. But then all of a sudden, it changed to Houston. "Oh, no, no, no, go to Houston. Houston really need a big help." So, I

00:52:39.220 - 00:52:58.130

came to Houston. And then— not because of money, not because of job, not because of any living condition, or not any American Dream—it has nothing to do.

00:52:59.000 - 00:53:19.220

I just want to serve young people, and teach them gospel, and then, truth from the Bible. That's my passion. Because I see young people— they struggle define— defining who they are, and

00:53:21.110 - 00:53:35.850

what they can do— what they want to do. So, I went through, but I got help that I became better person. So, I want to involve. And that was my passion.

00:53:37.280 - 00:53:53.530

And that's why I came to Houston. And my wife told me: "No problem" [laughs]. So-so later she quit her job, and she follow. She came 2006, I came 2005.

00:53:57.550 - 00:54:18.030

Were there any initial challenges in moving to the United States? Was there any culture shock for you? Mmm. I—

00:54:21.300 - 00:54:36.220

of course everybody has the same difficulties. Like, I didn't drive my car. But here, I start driving, I got the ticket [laughs], then gotta go— I gotta go to court and all this program.

00:54:36.220 - 00:54:52.390

And then-then, having difficulty pronunciation, making a sentence. Listening was very difficult. I know how to speak, but listening Texan sound wasn't that easy.

00:54:53.980 - 00:55:13.390

And food was difficult. I was very lonely, even though, like, I had brother Isaac, Paster Boksoon Kim, missionary James Kim—like, people— the church people there, but I still feel so lonely until my wife

00:55:13.580 - 00:55:32.600

come. So, yeah. And I met you, Gina [laughs], 2006, at the library YMCA at Stella Link. You were so little. Anyway...

00:55:36.600 - 00:55:54.880

I didn't have any fear, but I have a great ex-expectation. I think it's because I learn the Bible. And I know God exists. And whatever I do, wherever I go, I know God's protection

00:55:55.250 - 00:56:14.870

and guidance. So, the way I was thinking— people, they were thinking probably I was so rich. That's why I don't worry about any money. And I-I have something like a big island in Korea,

00:56:15.710 - 00:56:35.600

I own the island, or big properties, so super rich guy—and I came to America and smiling everywhere. I feel like there's no worry, like, wealthy family last son, I heard so many times.

00:56:37.680 - 00:56:58.640

But then, I kinda bring nothing to America [laughs]. I'm living— first apartment I live in was 230-350. So, I am living with a Taiwanese— he pay 150,

00:56:58.750 - 00:57:14.660

I paid 200. One bedroom apartment and spend more likely $5 per week to eat, and no cell phone [laughs]. I was-I was driving

00:57:18.020 - 00:57:37.360

missionary Boksoon Kim—Pastor Boksoon Kim's old car—Taurus 1988 [laughs]? Something very old. Anyway, I started very poor condition, humble condition.

00:57:39.470 - 00:57:58.460

I don't know, but I never worry anything for the future. Um, most of your family lives in Korea. And you came here. So, I was wondering if currently— or if

00:57:58.510 - 00:58:16.700

you experienced any sort of cultural gaps between you and your family back at home. Mmm. Me and my parents, especially my mom and I, we talk on the phone

00:58:19.870 - 00:58:33.860

once a week, or once in twice a week? Like, when I call, we spend, like, an hour on the phone. Talk so much things about what happened. And I don't think

00:58:35.530 - 00:58:52.910

there's a cultural—like, what I see is—I know Korea moves so fast. I know you've been there. We had a hard time, got on the bus and paying the

00:58:53.410 - 00:59:09.240

bus—paying not the cash. There's a, you know, you got to use card or phone. There was a kinda unfamiliar system. So, Korea move on everything so rapidly—technology

00:59:11.940 - 00:59:36.260

matter. And then... still, I think because I communicate with my parents, my sister, I-I didn't really feel much difference. But I think Juneyoung, my son, he

00:59:37.440 - 00:59:54.330

was shocked when he went to Korea. Like, it was: "Whoa." Because he-he only saw the America, and then when he saw Korea— and he say: "Wow, I—" he just keep on saying: "I want to come here and live here" many times.

00:59:55.940 - 01:00:06.750

Because Korea is very convenient. That's-that's how they feel. And then, a lot of place—fun place, exciting. Anyway...

01:00:09.840 - 01:00:24.850

Thank you for sharing. So, we are going to move in a different direction, move into your career here in the States. Looking at your resume, you have extensive experience working in the education

01:00:24.890 - 01:00:42.410

systems here? [HL: Mhm.] And so, as a math teacher working in HISD, can you provide insight on your e-experience? Has there been any inspiring and/or challenging moments in your time teaching here?

01:00:44.770 - 01:01:04.290

Mmm. It was very difficult teaching middle school, sixth grade, because that's my first time I had a job. It was Hartman Middle School in HISD.

01:01:04.290 - 01:01:24.140

It's a title one school, which is ov-over 90% students are economically disadvantaged school. And they didn't really see any Asian in there. And they will call me "chino,

01:01:24.880 - 01:01:40.150

ching chong chong" so many times [laughs]. Because— and then, I really don't know the— how to-how to deliver,

01:01:42.860 - 01:02:03.400

like, my-my desire to teach them, my compassion. I don't know how to embrace them, how to understand them. So, I think I struggled at least three years. Especially I had a really difficult time female African

01:02:03.400 - 01:02:21.640

American students. And then, but just one year, I get better. And-and I struggle with a female Hispanic student. I think it's because of a— male student, I understand.

01:02:22.770 - 01:02:43.270

They like soccer, I like soccer, they like basketball, I like basketball. The female, I really didn't have experience much. So— but then, the better understand, like, the teenagers— they, like, a middle

01:02:43.270 - 01:02:59.440

school level. And then, that was— I heard many times I don't understand American culture. I was called, principal, APs: "Mr.

01:02:59.440 - 01:03:18.120

Lee, you don't understand American culture" [laughs]. I was, like, "What? What are you talking— I know it." It was just— they complaining, because they don't want to study. There was, like, excuse, but right now, I see— I

01:03:18.200 - 01:03:36.560

think I wasn't ready, like, fully, but I just learn little by little and I'm better. But I, first year was so difficult, I pray and then, I write down many bible verses on my

01:03:36.560 - 01:03:54.420

desk and then, read and then-and then try to calm down and then— because I'm very emotional person. And short temper, so easily mad and upset.

01:03:55.300 - 01:04:13.640

And then, actually, I think also as a human, I get better and mature. And this— the children really kind of like mirror system. They reflect me and then they correct my pronunciation, my

01:04:13.940 - 01:04:29.500

wording, English, and then, my gesture— I snapped so many times. "Guys, guys pay attention." "Mr. Lee, we are not your dog. So stop snapping" [laughs] It was: "BOY—" I call

01:04:30.280 - 01:04:47.380

boy— "please don't say all this culturally, like, you know, tricky expression." So, I didn't know I was using it. They told me: "Mr. Lee, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it." So, I changed it and better

01:04:48.300 - 01:05:10.850

as a teacher, and better delivering the, you know, knowledge. What would you say is the best way to motivate your students? I know you mentioned having a passion, teaching and motivating your students.

01:05:11.110 - 01:05:30.490

And so, for example, how do you motivate a student who thinks they're bad at math to be competent in math? Mmm. How do I motivate? I motivate....

01:05:36.890 - 01:05:56.420

middle school students [laughs] with candy [laughs]. And I buy a bunch of soccer, or basketball, soccerball, football, decorate on the shelf. And then I have a-a

01:05:58.230 - 01:06:17.840

lottery ticket. So, I do— I did normally Christmas time. This is a— I— what I do— this is, like, you know, kinda not the major part.

01:06:18.100 - 01:06:34.340

Like, my major part is I help them focus. And I just ask them: "Can you focus five minutes? I can teach you anything you need." So, building

01:06:37.600 - 01:06:52.870

structure, once they get better, know how to solve it, and they're actually: "Oh, I can do it." So, I'm not the one driving them. All of a sudden, it changes.

01:06:53.540 - 01:07:09.420

They start putting their attention, and they want to be better. So, I-I motivate students with little step and make them pay attention, maybe 5 minutes, 10 minutes?

01:07:10.320 - 01:07:29.310

And then, see— like, give them evidence that they can do it. They-they become self motivation— a self motivation-er— they self— they themselves, motivating themselves later.

01:07:29.600 - 01:07:46.360

So, I'm good at how to initiating. "Guys, just 5 minutes. And let's see if you can or not." That was— I start studying— I start putting that way, and then-then, they get better

01:07:46.360 - 01:08:06.810

and better and better. I think some— actually, motivating is skill matter, but, I just like the kids [laughs]. And they know it, I like them.

01:08:07.530 - 01:08:21.760

And then-then, they do it. So, it's about the building of relationship. When I build a relationship, and then, with a good, sound relationship— with a trustworthy relationship with the kids, they just study.

01:08:23.280 - 01:08:42.820

If I like them, and they like me, and there's a miracle happen. That's middle school. And I had a lot of experience. So, I had a regular class, and half of them fail fifth grade or sixth grade previous year.

01:08:43.950 - 01:09:03.360

I took them and then, there's other pre-AP groups and honors class, 100% passing or commended on the test. But then, they competing. The matter of result after six month,

01:09:04.440 - 01:09:19.490

my class, the score is better than the honors class. And then, that happened so many times at the middle school. And I don't know why. But, I figured God helped me [laughs].

01:09:20.830 - 01:09:34.970

But, the miracle I found out, it's because of the relationship I have with the students. And once I build a good relationship, they trust whatever I say. And I say: "You're very smart" and they believe they're smart.

01:09:36.210 - 01:09:57.700

And then-then, all of a sudden they become very good at math. Yeah [laughs]. Thank you for answering that question. I'm sure—as you know, Asian or Asian American

01:09:58.210 - 01:10:14.020

students are stereotyped to be good at science and math. And so I wanted to ask you: why do you think that stereotype exists? Just your thoughts on that.

01:10:18.460 - 01:10:38.240

Mhm. I taught in college Asian students. So, a lot of Asian students, they were saying this: "Mr. Lee, no, no, no, no, no, I am not good at math. Don't ever think I'm— because I'm Asian,

01:10:38.240 - 01:10:59.020

I'm good at math." And then... I had the same question when I was in the community college, when I was studying. And then, the professor said that to other students. No, that's not true.

01:10:59.320 - 01:11:15.060

All the smart Asian students, they come to America. This way you see only good side of the Asian student. The— all the poor ones are not coming. They're not coming to America. That's why you don't see them.

01:11:17.430 - 01:11:40.310

In Korea, lot of also— Korean students do struggle, because of mathematics. But I— one thing I know, my family and church. And I have— I know the Asian student, they go to Saturday school,

01:11:42.280 - 01:12:04.310

private institute and summer school, private institute. And they hire private tutor to teach them. This is— there are, like, a lot of options. Let's say, Gina, you're not good at math.

01:12:04.740 - 01:12:24.650

And your mom can find easily, "Oh— " ask friend, Asian friend: "Do you know any good math private tutor?" "Oh, I have Judy! Talk to her. Here's her phone number." It's very easy to fix it. It's-it's very easy to access help.

01:12:26.490 - 01:12:41.310

So, everyone has struggle somehow. But once the parents figured it out, they need help, they can ask easily around of them. Then there is a good tutor with a reasonable price.

01:12:42.690 - 01:13:01.710

So, that's what happened. When I was in Hartman Middle School, I move on to high school, the teacher called me— the student went to the Carnegie Vanguard, she was one of the best, best student

01:13:01.920 - 01:13:25.220

in the Hartman Middle School— she struggled mathematics at Carnegie Vanguard. And he asked me: "Can I teach her?" "No, it's not— because-because I'm already busy." And I told him: "Can I give you— there's my

01:13:25.260 - 01:13:40.540

friend, she's doing private tutoring." And then, he contact the parents. And then-then parents never call her back. So, because it's, like-like, I don't-I don't know anybody.

01:13:41.670 - 01:13:59.260

So, it's coming from the parents to the teacher, teacher to another teacher, another teacher to friends. So, it's a long way to find the person, to get help. So, Asian society

01:13:59.990 - 01:14:20.560

is, like, a— there's a, like— how do I say— good community, like tutoring community. I think that's why. Moving into family, you have three children, your

01:14:21.370 - 01:14:40.500

oldest son Juneyoung, he was born in South Korea— am I correct [HL: Right]— while your middle son and your youngest daughter were born here [HL: Right] in the United States. What was it like raising your kids in the United States, and what would you say is your children's

01:14:40.500 - 01:14:59.620

relationship to their Korean heritage? It's— raising them here in America is way more easier? The matter of schooling system?

01:15:00.660 - 01:15:18.320

Korea is very competitive and very narrow to get into good program. They were always under the huge amount of pressure, the proving their skill level.

01:15:21.350 - 01:15:37.550

But here, America is not that heavy, and I could have a chance to play soccer. They joined the soccer team and I've been assistant coach or supporting them.

01:15:39.660 - 01:15:55.130

Swim team together, swimmings, and tennis— golfing together. I have a lot of time. I have family time together. Board game— and Korean societies also as an adult,

01:15:56.040 - 01:16:15.150

normally they stay until 8pm, 9pm, 10pm. But here, I got out of school 4 pm. So [laughs], I have a lot of chance to spend time together. But for them, spending time here,

01:16:15.150 - 01:16:31.060

even though I speak to them in Korean, it's very difficult for them to learn Korean. They understand, but it's hard for them to speak Korean. So, my wife is teaching every week

01:16:31.340 - 01:16:49.980

Seoyeong Korean class. And Juneyoung and Chanyoung, sometimes they do with my wife or at the church. But I think it's not enough. But because of-of Korean pop culture,

01:16:51.680 - 01:17:13.330

and Korean drama, Korean food culture, is dominating right now in the world, they're actually interested in and— but they feel inferior, the matter of Korean speaking. Juneyoung is way better than Chanyoung and Seoyeong,

01:17:15.010 - 01:17:29.880

and Juneyoung fully understand his Korean, but Chanyoung and Seoyeong, they were born in here. So, they are American and Korean. But in here, living in America, they're more likely to accept themselves

01:17:30.250 - 01:17:46.940

as American first. I'm waiting [laughs]. What values have you made sure to instill in your children?

01:17:56.360 - 01:18:17.630

What value for them to have characteristically? I mean, personally, I want them to be healthier and healthy physically. And integrity,

01:18:21.700 - 01:18:39.080

and self control, honesty also, and compassion. But, I tried to teach them through Bible study and then, join the worship service.

01:18:39.890 - 01:19:01.220

And then— because of the value mostly from Christianity. But as a parent and a father, there's difficulties. Because, like, YouTube,

01:19:01.890 - 01:19:22.080

Tiktok, Instagram, Facebook, internet, there's so many, like, a— other out-outside, like resources they can access, and they can have their own thought, their own idea, own

01:19:23.560 - 01:19:42.900

view through that. So, it could have conflict-conflict— we could have a confliction between my view and their view. So, each of them are different for Juneyoung,

01:19:44.430 - 01:19:59.150

Chanyoung and Seoyeong. That's a very difficult question [laughs]. Yeah, anyway. No, no worries. That was a great answer.

01:20:01.640 - 01:20:20.820

Okay, so moving on to our last sort of categories: Korean culture and religion. And I think in you saying that you moved here with the purpose of raising young people to be Christian

01:20:22.220 - 01:20:42.790

leaders, I think that these categories can go hand in hand, so I'll combine the two. So how would you describe the Korean community in Houston, from your experience? Korean community,

01:20:54.190 - 01:21:12.930

I— because I don't involve much Korean community. Because mostly Korean people living in Katy and—area. I live in Westbury near Bellaire.

01:21:13.780 - 01:21:31.810

So, Korean community is big enough. There, I met a lot of— actually the first time I came, I was in the English Learning Institute. So, I was-I was-I was learning English first.

01:21:33.240 - 01:21:50.840

So, I met a lot of Korean people who struggle, English. And they— mostly, they just arrived like me, one or two year before. They still struggle...

01:21:53.530 - 01:22:13.990

English. I don't think— they don't struggle financially, but English is still challenging. So, once they figured it out, I became a teacher, they were shocked. "How? I never heard— " that's what I— like, that's, mostly people

01:22:13.990 - 01:22:34.270

react. When I say: "Oh, I'm a teacher in HISD." "How? I never heard." Just because of— being a teacher means I need to go through the interview, and I need to prove my English skills. And not only proving and I need to answer all the

01:22:34.330 - 01:22:56.090

questions from the principals and AP specialists. And then, I got hired even though I came here 2005, as my age is 31, which is, like, not the, kinda, college student. But I came 31, and I get a job

01:22:56.540 - 01:23:14.990

33— 31, 2008. So, they were actually quite surprised. And I think still English is challenging. Sometimes I-I got

01:23:14.990 - 01:23:34.020

request, interpretation, or they were in trouble, so I need to interpret the police officer and then— or the lawyer. And then, in between, I was interpreting— your, like— your mom does the sign language [laughs].

01:23:34.390 - 01:23:46.600

I was called: "Hey, John—" they call me John: "Can you help me or Mr. Lee, can you help me? Can you interpret? I need to talk to them. What they-what they say? Can you interpret?" So...

01:23:52.320 - 01:24:09.940

To my knowledge, Korean churches in Houston play an important— pretty important role in the Korean community. And so, I wanted to ask about your experience with your church. I wanted to ask: why do you choose to worship with the Houston

01:24:09.940 - 01:24:25.790

Campus Mission Bible Church? And if you can expand on the service, the people, whatever you want. Oh, in Houston, there is biggest

01:24:26.480 - 01:24:42.250

Korean church in America. Seoul Church is the biggest church in America. Like, out of Korean community. And a lot of Korean churches too also— I do believe more than 100 Korean

01:24:42.250 - 01:24:57.970

churches in Houston. Well, we have a unique case [laughs]. Well, we have our worship service in English. I mean, there is also E.M— English ministry and big

01:24:57.970 - 01:25:12.800

churches, they separately. And that's the-the pastor grew up here in America. So, actually they fluently speak in English.

01:25:14.190 - 01:25:33.050

And then-then, they targeting teenagers, youth group who actually don't know Korean. The parents brought them to church, they joined the worship service, they go to Korean worship service, they send the kids to English worship service.

01:25:34.530 - 01:25:56.390

We are not. We are— whole program is English. The parents and children together join worship service [laughs], English. We have a— even though I'm Korean and we have a majority Korean church,

01:25:58.070 - 01:26:14.580

we speak in English, because we are not standing as a Korean. We try to stand as a Christian in America. So, it is as much as we can, we want to support

01:26:15.840 - 01:26:26.890

young American and then, grow as a leader, Christian leader. So, I know it's difficult. So, some Korean people they came and visit.

01:26:27.820 - 01:26:46.340

And they left. Because of the program, all the services English. But, I think some narrow way is God's way. But, I think it's because of the reason or we

01:26:46.600 - 01:27:06.360

have no, like, gaps in between youth group and adult— parents and children. We have same worship service. And then, when we go to Camp Allen, winter conference, summer Conference, like, we mingle together, play together, program together.

01:27:06.880 - 01:27:26.560

That way there's no— not much, like, a gap in between adult and youth group and children. So, that's a huge benefit. Would you say, at this church, that the church has helped to

01:27:26.560 - 01:27:49.240

maintain Korean culture and community for you and your family? I think not Korean culture only. Like, I want the church grow as an international, like, an

01:27:49.660 - 01:28:05.200

international church. So, Korean right now— majority right now, but we want to embrace also different culture.

01:28:06.050 - 01:28:24.290

Hispanic culture, also Asian other countries, American cultures, all that. Open to every direction. So, you see brother Roman, actually, he's American.

01:28:27.310 - 01:28:44.270

Originally Filipino, second generation. So, he's not Korean. And Tony is playing piano. He's mixed with— mom is

01:28:44.270 - 01:29:01.770

Caucasian, father is Hispanic. So, they speak Spanish and English both. Joel is from Honduras, so, Hondurian. So, I know as we

01:29:01.770 - 01:29:20.300

grow, as I do believe we'll grow strong in the future, in five years. Multicultural church, it could be. Um, moving kind of to a different subject,

01:29:21.730 - 01:29:37.360

in the recent wake of the pandemic, there has nationwide been a rise in anti-Asian hate crimes. And if you wouldn't mind sharing, do you have any thoughts on this recent phenomenon?

01:29:42.550 - 01:30:07.080

Yeah, that's very sad… very sad. I don't think this majority....like isn't— the culture or major culture is moving toward Asian hatred, whatever

01:30:07.250 - 01:30:26.740

they call. I think it's misunderstanding, I still believe misunderstanding. There's YouTube and there's TikTok, so many open source— resources that probably pull them to select, you know, the algorithm you watch is— like the

01:30:26.770 - 01:30:38.990

soccer on the YouTube. They keep on putting up the soccer video clips, right. You watch BTS and they keep on putting BTS, even your Facebook, there is BTS.

01:30:39.860 - 01:30:59.360

So, if you see certain point of view, then Google algorithm, whatever the— Facebook algorithm that keep putting the similar items and similar video clips, and then, try to put the, you know, one side of view, that's

01:31:02.140 - 01:31:12.880

the problem right now. People see only what they want to see. They cannot see other side of view. Mmm.

01:31:18.500 - 01:31:29.970

Along that note, do you have any hopes for the Korean community or Asian or Asian American communities in the United States? Say it again?

01:31:31.520 - 01:31:47.600

Do you have any hopes for the Korean community or— yes. Mmm. Asian community...

01:31:53.670 - 01:32:11.770

Korean community, I mean, I— what I hope— there are lot of good things. But, like, people cannot distinguish difference in Japan-Asian, Korean-Asian,

01:32:13.090 - 01:32:32.330

Chinese-Asian, Taiwanese-Asian, Filipino, Indonesian, like, Vietnamese, they-they couldn't see much difference, like, only highly educated people. Or they have a wife or husband [laughs] or their friends,

01:32:32.760 - 01:32:44.200

they know the difference. But it still it's, like "Oh, all Asians look similar? And the culture is similar." That's one thing we still need to work on.

01:32:44.590 - 01:33:02.310

Oh, like, how different? How unique? And because I was always treated like Chinese. "No, I'm Korean." "What's the difference?" [laughs] I know that all these teenage girls, they

01:33:02.310 - 01:33:18.060

know it. The boys— teenage boys, I don't know. "Well, you still watch Korean webtoon?" "I don't even know if this is Korean letter. I-I was thinking this is Japanese." They enjoy—

01:33:21.950 - 01:33:37.760

they-they see a lot of difference. I mean, they see— they already enjoy, they involve, but they cannot say what— which one is which one? That's why it's, like, Asian

01:33:37.760 - 01:33:56.970

culture still, like— how do you say it— not blooming yet. Yeah. Well, I'm part of the, you know, I always say I'm Korean. I'm from Korea. "What's the difference with Korea and Japan?" I'm always questioning

01:33:57.040 - 01:34:14.210

[laughs] my students. Would you identify yourself as Korean or Korean American? Korean. [GM: Gotcha.] I— yeah. I mean, maybe when I get the citizenship,

01:34:15.730 - 01:34:37.610

I probably will think about it deeply. But I still identify myself as Korean. Okay, so moving into our final two questions— sort of our concluding questions.

01:34:39.500 - 01:35:01.830

The first is: what would you like to be remembered for? So, I put Bible teacher, taekwondo master, and math teacher and then that's what my [laughs] my email— always at the bottom part.

01:35:02.080 - 01:35:23.740

And it describes who I am. I still— I put three values. I teach taekwondo every week, all the moms class, taekwondo class. And math teacher as my professional job.

01:35:24.850 - 01:35:47.610

I teach Bible every Wednesday and Thursday— Wednesday, teenager groups, Thursdays adult group. Yeah, that's-that's what— I don't know. I still don't know how to say [laughs].

01:35:47.800 - 01:36:10.920

But, I want to-I want to— I read a-a [The] Little Prince when I was a college student, and I hope for— I want to like— when I grow, I don't want to build a wall around me.

01:36:12.170 - 01:36:34.000

So, I grew, I get older, I destroy the wall if there is, and then-then, I want to build a relationship with anyone, anybody. I think I want to be friends.

01:36:35.170 - 01:36:53.130

I want to be friends. I want to be called "friend." So, I play soccer, Tuesday and Thursday. I have a bunch of high school and teenager and young people. And some of them are old 50s college professor,

01:36:53.680 - 01:37:15.520

two of them Rice University professors, music major. And two of them UH philosophy professors. And teachers, and doctors, and construction workers, and mowing the lawn, you know, cutting the grass and the

01:37:15.520 - 01:37:31.590

people who walk in every direction. We're all together— we play soccer, drink water, cheer each other. I practically— that's what I want to be.

01:37:32.650 - 01:37:48.740

And I want to be friends with anyone. And our final question, do you have any advice for your children or their future children or etc.?

01:37:51.480 - 01:38:17.520

Mhm. To my children: "seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and all these things will be given to you as well." Matthew Chapter 6 Verse 33.

01:38:18.610 - 01:38:39.050

Things— spiritual wisdom, spiritual knowledge and— that's actually the first, the most important.

01:38:40.650 - 01:39:00.860

Living in this world, the land of living. Okay. Thank you so, so much for providing [HL: laughs] such great insight in— for us. Thank you for taking time out of your schedule.

01:39:02.310 - 01:39:09.970

We really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you, Gina. Okay, I will end the recording.

01:39:10.300 - 01:39:11.200

Right— All right, all right.