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today is february 24th 2020. To my name is Joshua furman. I am the curator of the Houston jewish history archive at Rice University and I am very pleased to be joined today by Bitsy Polar bitsy. How are you? Fine thank you. How about you, josh? Doing

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great. Why don't you why don't you start by telling us when and where you were born? Okay. I was born May the 26 1933 in Harlington Texas. And I was born to Ben and Dalma Epstein. I'm gonna put my glasses on so I can see what

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I'm so I'll know what I'm saying. I have only one sibling who is Julin bliss Rosenthal, my real name is Freddy Delphine. But when I was born my sister named me Bitsy because I was such an itsy bitsy baby. That's great question answered. Yes, that's right.

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And you're and you're still bitsy right. Everyone calls you bitsy, is that right? That's right, that's true. They do, yeah. So why don't we talk now about um how it was that your family came to texas and we can start on your mother's side or your

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father's side whichever is is easier for you. I think we're gonna start on my mother's side first. Uh My mother Delma Bliss was born in Beaumont texas on March the 5th 1900. And her family originally came from France before the Civil War they settled in New

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Orleans and after the war moved to Houston where my great great grandmother who was the first one here in Houston to come to Houston bought the property uh where Beth Israel Cemetery is now. This was when the jewish community was first becoming settled right after the

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civil war in that period of time. And they enough jews had gotten here to where they could form a congregation. And as memory goes, my memories tells me that uh it was the congregation itself was down where the Heights is at this time and where they

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call the High Heights or in that part of the city was a small group that got together and formed this congregation. But before farming it jews always used to find property to bury their dead. And so she bought this property and gave it to the congregation.

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Uh In fact she's buried there herself. And uh her name is I want to give you I want to give you her this call paul her first name was Pauline. She had two last name and she was married twice but Regensburg er was her last name

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anyway um her um after she purchased the property for Beth Israel Cemetery and and she died um Her tombstone was built for her and it happens to be the highest tallest tombstone out there. You can't miss it. And she's buried by herself. Uh She died in

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1902 and her husband Lazar died in 1860. They had six Children but only one of them survived and her name was Delphine, whom I'm named after, who married a man whose last name is Loeb and they had three Children. They lived to Beaumont texas where the

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jewish community was just beginning and she purchased Delphine purchased the property for the cemetery there Because the Jewish community was just beginning at that time there where my grandmother was, where my grandmother was born, Martha Bliss was born in 1860. Her name was Martha Lobe Bliss.

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My mother was born March the 5th 1900 and the family's occupation was some form of retailing and groceries. My father, Ben Epstein was born in new york city, May the 18 in 18 98 to Ellis and fred to Epstein where I get my other name. So

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my name being fred a Delphine Epstein, Ellis who was my grandfather was a very religious man, so he was a religious teacher and the Shamas for the shul there. My dad moved to hondo texas after finishing high school to live and work for his sister and

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brother in law who had at that time opened a retail store. He learned the business and saved his money and then moved to Harlington where he opened a retail store of his own. He met my mother Del Alma at a festival that they were having in

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Harlington and um they were married a short time later in Beaumont at the temple there. That tells you the beginning of my story. That's great and tell us now about um your your childhood. What are some of your earliest memories of growing up? Okay. My parents

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moved here when I to Houston from originally. They lived in Harlington then during the Depression, my father got a job with Kansas city life insurance company and moved my mother at Delma and me and my sister julie Lane to Beaumont texas to live with my grandmother

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uh while he went to work for Kansas city life and he would travel all over the valley uh to find clients, many of which ended up here in Houston and they were jewish people whose names, if I mentioned them today, would be very familiar to many

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people here. Um Anyway, we stayed in Beaumont living with my grandmother until I was around six months old and then we moved to Houston And that had to be back in 19, I was born in 1933, so that had to be close to 1930 for so

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I've lived in Houston every since that time we moved originally over to a duplex near the Montrose area, which is now called the Montrose area. And I assumed it was then too. Uh and from there moved into South Hampton area, which was called Southampton then, which

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I assume is still called the Southampton area there off a shepherd drive. Um we moved to uh Portsmouth's street called Portsmouth. And um my dad continued to work, mother stayed home, took care of us. Uh we then moved into a two story house which was on

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Danville Street, right where the southwest freeway is right by shepherd drive. Ah And every time I drive down shepherd, I, I feel reminiscent of the times that I lived in that area. It's very um, it's like homecoming to me because I walked those streets, rode those

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busses that went up and down there. Uh, the Alabama theater was the best thing that we had, which is now uh, a grocery store. Right? I think it's a trader joe's, it's a trader joe's. But that little area there was where we, where I lived and

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I went to po elementary school and Sidney Lanier uh junior high school. Uh, there were very few jewish people in that immediate area. Uh, the next time you would pick up I could pick up friends that we're jewish were over in the university area, which was

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not called university at that time. Uh, and that I had my closest friend lived over in that area. Otherwise everyone lived over in what they called the riverside area which was off of Alameda and that's where most of the jewish people that I knew of lived.

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Yeah, I can I can I ask you about growing up in a, in an area that was not particularly jewish. I mean did, so you mostly played with non jewish friends I assume. Did you experience any anti Semitic, no anti Semitism whatsoever. We were all very

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close um, neighbors took care of neighbors. Uh We used to say that that's how Houston became so popular in this country, Why people moved here because we had nothing to offer except our neighbor wiliness and taking care of each other because we knew that if our

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neighbor didn't survive we wouldn't survive either. We had storms and hurricanes. We had various uh We had wars, we had World War two. and so it was it was impossible to live a normal life if you and your neighbor didn't live, you know well together. So

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there just was no time for anti Semitism. Can you tell us speaking of World War Two, what what are your memories of that time you were? You were just a child. But I'm sure well I was I was a child. Um It started while I was

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at po elementary school. I was nine years old when the war started and my father was determined to be in it and he kept being rejected because of his eyesight and because of his age and uh he finally he insisted and they draft, they wouldn't draft

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him. So he volunteered in the Air Force and during that period of time uh he was stationed in various places all over the country. My mother would drop us off in Beaumont to live with my grandmother and a cousin there whose name was Henrietta Godlewski and

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we stay there for a short time and then as soon as they could find the proper housing they would send for us. So we would go by train and uh, travel to various parts of the country to be with them. Uh, we made it ended up

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being one of the most fascinating times in my life. If you think of, I was between the age of nine and 12, we did not get back here. We were traveling for four years off and on, but we started on the West Coast and ended up

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on the east coast. So and got to see the whole country. Uh huh. And I mean do you remember rationing, you know, stamps and, and books? We had rationing of stamps. We had rationing of gasoline. Um, we worked for the red cross. I even worked at

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the red cross rolling bandages. Everybody had to participate. We had special alarms that went off in the school with the bells. We practiced various ways in case of bombing what we were supposed to do and uh, we all participated Children adults like do you, do you

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busy, do you have a memory of where you were when the Pearl Harbor attack was announced? Yes, I can tell you exactly on Sundays we would drive to Beaumont for my mother to see her mother and the family. We do that at least once a month.

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So that particular sunday we had been in Beaumont and we were on our way home in the car and daddy had the, the radio on in the car and sure enough it came on that the war had started. That's how I remember. Unbelievable. That's that's just

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incredible. So, so this formative period in your childhood, you were sort of sort of ruthless moving all around the country. Um so then tell us about, you know after the war, how it was that you came back to Houston, did you settle back into the same

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house, in the same neighborhood? We did. We mother and daddy had rented that house out while we, while he was in the service and we came back and moved back into that house by that time. I was in junior high school at Lanier and I started,

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I was able to re acquaint and renew my friendship with my girlfriend who lived in university who was my best friend. Um also the girl that lived next door to me, jane smith was my best friend. And uh we got to renew our friendship and I

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started back in school again by that time. Uh, interesting things had happened in religious school. The congregation had split, would you like me to go into that right now to uh yeah, you're referring to what happened at Beth Israel with the principal. We started out exactly.

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Um Beth Israel originally and I'm gonna start this, I'm gonna, you might cut this part out, but I don't care. Beth Israel originally was an Orthodox congregation, it might not have been called Beth Israel, but the people that formed the first group that came here were

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Orthodox people. My great great grandmother was Orthodox. Anyway, uh they moved from the shul down in the Heights they built finally they dispersed and they some of them decided to become reform and they built Beth Israel. Uh they built the sanctuary. The, I don't know the

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history, I don't remember any of the history of, of how the building itself was built, but that's what occurred. And um during that time Rabbi Barnes stine was the rabbi had Rabbi there and Rabbi Kahn was the assistant rabbi during the war. Uh because of the

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holocaust, Israel became a very important factor and of trying to resettle these people and the congregation disagreed. Part of them did not want to see Israel as a homeland for the jews and did not believe in zionism and part of them did. And my family were

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the were the part of the people that did believe in it. We were not here when they broke away and formed, but my mother and father kept in touch with the people who were forming this new congregation and said that they wanted to be original members

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and that they wanted to see Rabbi cahn be the rabbi to lead us. He of course at that time was in the war himself. So um that's how we began to congregate when the congregation began during the war period. Right, This is the early history of

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congregation Emmanuel when you back to Houston after the war, where was Emmanuel meeting and holding services, We were holding services in the church presbyterian church believe it was presbyterian over on Montrose. And uh then we went to a school, actual school, have our religious school and

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I don't remember which school it was, but anyway it was a school and we got a religious uh so you knew Rabbi cahn for decades and decades and decades. Can you give us an impression of what kind of rabbi he was? What kind of human being

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he was share some of your favorite Rabbi cahn stories? Uh huh. Well people, many people thought he was God, he was a Godly man. Um He had a presence about him. Uh he was a super intellectual marvelous mind and a beautiful way of presenting himself and

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words. His thoughts came out eloquently. Uh He had a way of approaching spirituality uh in an unusual way he he felt that people needed to sense and feel God for themselves. And he encouraged that to the point that confirmation when I was to be confirmed, I

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could not be confirmed unless I could write a paper on how I believed in God. So I tried to write that paper and I became very frustrated with it and finally picked up the phone and called him one day and said, Rabbi cahn, I don't think

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I can be confirmed. And he said, why not? And I said because I can't seem to be able to put down on paper how I believe in God. And he said, well, bitsy, I want you to do something, I want you to go to sleep tonight,

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before you go to sleep tonight. I want you to live very quietly for a while, just be very quiet and listen. And then I want you to sit down and see if you can write that paper afterwards. So that night I did, I went to bed

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and I was very quiet and somehow or other, I did hear that voice within me and it was like, he had prepared me all these years to listen for it and it was there and I sat down and wrote my paper, but that's the type of

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person that he was, it was like uh he wanted you to be the best jew that you could be, but you had to believe in God along with it, and you had to have this sense of spirituality and his sermons, uh his sermons speak of that

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and bring that you can feel it come through. He also because of his sense of dignity made you feel a sense of dignity about yourself. He met, he brought you up to his level and so you had uh even though your parents taught you certain moral

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and ethical things, he kept that supported it in the way he presented himself at the pulpit. Yeah, absolutely, thank you for sharing that. I wanted to ask you about um favorite memories of holiday celebrations growing up in your home, you could talk about Passover, you could

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talk about Russia shana, you could talk about um, hanukkah season, what, what, what favorite memories come to mind about those times? Well, they're conflicting uh, in some respect, Passover was done very well just as it normally should be uh, and so was, or just as we

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do it today, but Hanukkah was the most conflicting one of all you see, I was brought up in a family that also believed in having a christmas tree and celebrating christmas. Uh, they thought it was a beautiful holiday and uh, my father didn't, although he came

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from a very religious family did not object. So we did hanukkah and we did christmas too, we would like the Hanukkah lights and we get a gift, small gift, but on christmas every christmas eve, my father and I would go buy a christmas tree, they give

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it to us practically because it was christmas eve already and we bring it home and we would as a family uh, dress the tree and wait for santa claus to come. And sure enough the next morning we wake up and have our presence. So we did

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that all through my growing up years and then when, later on, when I got, when I got married, Jackie and I got married that of course did not happen anymore. But we would go to my mother and father's house, they would have the tree and so

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my sister Julian and her husband Ike and their Children and Jackie and I and my and our Children would all go over there on christmas morning and open presents, wow. Um why don't we talk now about how um you met Jackie and your memories of, of

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some of those first impressions? Okay. The first time I saw Jack was when I was going to johnson Jr he was going to johnson Junior High School and I was going to Sidney Lanier and I was in a choir or a music class that was acquired

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for at that time that's what they called it choir class uh and they had this big get together at Jackie's school and all the schools in the city, Junior high schools in the city had their music classes participate. So my friend at that time, her name

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was Emma Rosen Ler she's the one that was my close friend who lived in the university area was in choir class with me and she and I went by bus over to johnson Junior High school to see this uh presentation that they were doing for the

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city and the first person to get up to sing was Jackie And the minute he got through singing, I turned to her and at that time I was probably all of 13 years old turned to her and said someday I'm going to marry that boy. And

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she turned to me and she said he's so good looking, he's probably got a brother and maybe someday we'll even be sister in laws. Life went on. He lived on once in the riverside area. I lived over in the Southampton area. So naturally we never saw

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each other again until later on when I started dating who should I go out with for a date? But his brother and I started dating his brother, I mean parole er And one night at an S. A. R. Dance at Beth Israel. Uh Jackie had flown

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in from new york. He was going to Juilliard School of Music there at the time and it came with his brother Hiney to the S. A. R. Dance and he his brother came over naturally he knew me and we were dancing and Jackie cut in and

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that was it. It was almost as if two souls had met each other that belonged together. And uh that was that was when our relationship really began. Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about um Jackie's families, you started to give the impression that he

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came from a much more traditional family than you. What can you? And I know this could be the subject of a entire interview in itself, but tell us something about, about the Patrollers about about Jackie's parents. Um I don't want to get into a lot of

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it because I'm not as well informed on that as I am on my own family. Um, although there's been a great deal of ancestry work done for the patrollers on that. His mother and father were both from Russia. Uh, they met when they came to this

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country on the east coast, they met each other in a factory where they both worked side by side and fell in love and then moved eventually to Houston where his father became a peddler and finally went into the scrap business. Uh, their family, he came from

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a family. Jackie's family. He had nine, there were nine Children in that family. He had eight siblings, a lift in the junkyard in a house in the junkyard. Um, Out of the nine Children, only six survived. The three middle Children died. So, uh, as soon as

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they were old enough, each child had to work in the scrap business helping pedal and to also work there at the shop. So they never did get to go to college. Uh, they hardly even finished high school. Some of them didn't finish high school. So Jackie

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was the only one that really got to finish school and go off to college are a form of college and he loved, his father was very religious. So was his mother. They were orthodox and he, they saw to it that Jackie uh, learned the religion and

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that he had a good religious background and he was sent to uh Haider uh, and studied and here in Houston and then learned to, he had such a lovely voice that they encouraged him to do cantor to sing with the Cantor. So he did cantorial work

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with the Cantor just as a child. He was just a young kid and that's when his voice started developing and finally they felt it was, he needed to go to Juilliard. The family uh fortunately were very productive and did very well in the business. And uh

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there were a very loving, caring family, very supportive family to each other and to the community. His father had been honored many times for his contributions financially to the community and to it's the jewish community and to its needs. Yeah, very much so. Um so tell

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us when and where did you and Jackie get married? We got married at Temple Emanuel uh In 1951. And um Jackie happened to have been and this was during the korean war. Jackie was in the army. So we could not have a real honeymoon. We had

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only a long weekend to have a honeymoon and we went to New Orleans. That was the popular place to go at that time. And we went by plane by train to New Orleans. The wedding was a traditional wedding. His family almost didn't get married. His uh

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family very much wanted us to be married under a chuppah. But my mother and father felt like it, they were giving the wedding and we were not orthodox jews, we were reformed jews, so there would be no hope so. Instead we traded out for four rabbis

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and a canter, that's how many officiated at the wedding. Oh my goodness! So so Rabbi CAhn was there from Emanuel, Rabbi Cahn was there Rabbi Ross singer from Beaumont, was there? Yes, uh two rabbis from their congregation was there in a canter and everybody had something

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to say. So by the time they got through we were well married, it was almost, it was almost your first anniversary. That's funny. Um Jackie, Jackie had had thoughts about a career in entertainment, is that right? Yes, he had um he met up with a friend

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of his here in Houston Ted Rogan who was in the advertising business and um that ted wanted to take him to California and had uh to to see joe pasternak who was with MGM at the time. And uh this was during the era when musicals, musical

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movies were very popular and he felt like Jackie had the presence and the voice to make it in Hollywood. So he took him out there, they drove out and sure enough MGm wanted to sign him up for contract, so he gave me a call and we,

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at that time we were very much in love with each other and he made a call and said uh I think I'm in the m G M office right now and they wanted me to sign a contract if I do will you marry me? And I

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said no I won't marry you interestingly enough I had this was one of the places my father was stationed during the war was in L. A. And we lived in Hollywood and and I like and I was very familiar with the lifestyle of the people who

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were in that industry, the movie industry and I didn't want any part of it. So he packed up and came back home wow and went into the family business. Mhm. Did he did he have other opportunities to sing or to perform? He did he he sang

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for various functions. Uh He sang for what certain weddings of the family and asked for him and then he I guess for 20 almost 15 years at least sang Colney dre and Emmanuel every poor very nice. And I think you have a recording of that. I

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think we do yeah. In the family collection I think we do so tell us now about settling down. Um starting a family. Where did you where did you live Children and all of that. Okay. We'll start when we first got married because Jackie was in the

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army we lived in in san Antone because he was stationed there at Fort Sam Houston and we lived there for about six months. Uh Because for two reasons. Uh First of all I got pregnant right right after we got married that month and a half or

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two months after we got married, I got pregnant and I did not want to have the baby in san Antone, I wanted to have the baby here in Houston. So we stayed in san Antone and we lived at a couple of apartments during that time because

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it was housing was very difficult during the korean war to find good housing, move back to Houston. And after our first son, David was born here, we moved, we bought a home in riverside and timber crust. Uh that happened to then where most of the jewish

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people were living at the time. Uh people that we were, his family lived in that area. And so that's where we lived, we bought a two story house there on Ben street in timber crest and then uh unfortunately his mother after we had lived there for

00:41:34.470 - 00:41:55.520

a couple of years, few years, his mother became very ill and she passed away uh and we moved over to his mother and father's house. His father did not want to stay in that house and the house was over on the other side of the bio

00:41:55.530 - 00:42:22.820

which was in the McGregor area and it was off of south, it was off of South McGregor area, it was in the south McGregor area. So we lived in that house for for a year because uh they have someone had sold a home in timber crest

00:42:23.940 - 00:42:50.050

where we lived on our street to a black family. And the value of the property of everyone on that block went down. This was when the black community was just starting to come in. Uh the educated black people were just starting to move into that riverside

00:42:50.060 - 00:43:17.050

area. And uh so when we, his father after a year wanted to get married, uh he wanted to move back into that house, we moved back into the house on timber crest because it had not sold because of this black family moving in on that block.

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So we lived there for about six months and sold that house and we sold it to a wonderful woman, she was a nurse and she loved the house, she was single, she had one son and she adored the house and she paid for every single bit

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of it? Uh and when her mortgage was paid up, she even sent us a copy of the paid up mortgage. She was so proud of what she had done and we were so proud of her. That's an incredible story. Yes. And she told her son this

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is interesting, she told her son that he was never to sell that house and that house was to stay in her and you know in his name after her death and he didn't, he didn't sell it, he moved off, I don't know whether he finally did

00:44:18.660 - 00:44:41.320

or not or whatever happened, but anyway, do you ever go back and visit riverside, Have you been over there? I went back there and in fact made a film uh that I don't know, should be in your archives about the jews of riverside uh, and made

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it right there in front of that house. Um they filmed it right in front of the house and the neighborhood was still as beautiful as it could be and most of it was black and most of these people that were black were highly professional people, you

00:45:00.990 - 00:45:27.930

know, that lived there. In fact, they came out to greet me and meet me, which made me feel good. That's, that's nice to go from there. Uh I wanted to hear more about the riverside neighborhood, you know, restaurants, places to shop, places to go out, you

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know, as a, as a young married couple or as a mother with Children, where, where would you go to get your groceries, where would you go for, you know, a night out, you know, on the town. Uh Weingarten's was always the primary grocery place to shop

00:45:52.220 - 00:46:21.090

and our media uh street, we called it Alameda Row Almeida was, where the most of the shops were that we would shop at. Uh and the restaurants that we would go to would be on Alameda or Main Street and in that day and time. Uh there

00:46:21.090 - 00:46:43.980

were, because we had little Children. Um we, we meet up there was nightclubbing to at that time. We had nightclubs that were on, near there and we would go dancing and have dinner and meet up with our friends. It was all kinds of different things that

00:46:43.980 - 00:47:03.300

we did. There was the Shamrock had not been built yet, but that area where the Shamrock was on Main Street and Bel Air which is Main street in Bel air now uh was really the key area in which we would go for entertainment and to eat.

00:47:03.980 - 00:47:32.460

The Red Lion was there on Main Street, there was italian restaurants. Uh Guy does was on South Main. Uh there were drive ins that we would go to. Uh there were places to just go dance. All they do is bring in great art orchestras and we

00:47:32.460 - 00:48:02.600

would go and just dance uh movie places. I'm not as familiar. I don't remember so much the movies, although we did go on Main Street, the Delmon theater was I think the most popular one, we stopped going downtown. To the uh majestic and to the the

00:48:02.610 - 00:48:27.680

paramount to the places downtown, the theaters downtown, we stopped doing that. Instead we go like to the domain of the Tower theater which were out in the neighborhood areas, you know, busy speaking of going downtown, that that phenomenon alright, going downtown. That's something that you know,

00:48:27.680 - 00:48:56.020

people younger than my generation have no conception. Um But downtown was where we would go to do our special shopping because we would go to places that's where Foley's was Levi's was uh that's where Leon's was uh Sacha wits uh and later Neiman Marcus. So downtown

00:48:56.020 - 00:49:19.160

was our shopping that was our galleria area. And along with it we're the restaurants that came in later on with it to um maxims was one of the favorite places to go and eat. Um There were a lot of restaurants down there too. And then of

00:49:19.160 - 00:49:47.320

course we had where hobby sinner is. Uh that was the where the cultural part began. And then the museums, the museum was built at their on Montrose off of Montrose. So culturally we had shows that came in and we would go down to where the hobby

00:49:47.320 - 00:50:18.470

center is uh for that and then we would go to the museum. Uh The symphony came later. It they brought the symphony in a little bit later and opera and ballet followed. Right I believe they followed. I'm I'm not quite sure what succession it happened. Uh

00:50:18.470 - 00:50:40.130

huh. And so I mean Houston before before your eyes in those years is becoming an international city. A cosmopolitan city. People are moving to Houston from the northeast and from other places. Um It must have been a very exciting time. It was and it um it

00:50:40.130 - 00:51:08.440

was exciting because um all different kinds of cultures were coming forth. People from other parts of the world. The chinese were moving in and developing a community uh the far Eastern people were moving in and developing a community of their own. Uh So we had all

00:51:08.440 - 00:51:44.050

of that to uh and we just became bigger and better. Um And as we did this, the jewish community began to disperse itself from the riverside area. It started spreading out and moving ah and it moved found itself. Then medicine became a big business at that

00:51:44.050 - 00:52:07.120

time. And the medical center started to develop spring up. And this is when the Marland area began to become popular because it was close enough for them to and the university area became popular because it was close enough to get in and out of the medical

00:52:07.120 - 00:52:26.140

center and also to get downtown. Mhm. So now tell us about when you left riverside, did you go to my Ireland or did you go to another area first we went to we rented a house and wait a minute. What did I do Here they are.

00:52:26.150 - 00:52:54.160

My glasses, we rented the house um near the timber crest. Trying to think you're gonna have to help me with this and I know you're gonna have to break it off, that's fine. And if it's if it's if you leave out of place the woodside woodside,

00:52:54.170 - 00:53:16.430

I couldn't remember woodside the woodside area was developing but if it it's where we wanted to move to and and and in fact found a house there but when we went to sign the papers the builder found out we were jewish and he would not sell

00:53:16.430 - 00:53:42.280

it to us. And that was the first time that we had ever been smacked with that sort of ain't happening to us. Um And that's when we turned around and bought a house in Maryland. And So I was gonna explain. So the woodside neighborhood is near

00:53:42.280 - 00:54:07.300

Stella link right? And braise wood. And this would have been around what 1950 It was in the 19 late 1960s, later part of 1960s. Um we read first we rented a house on Capri which was writing in back of Alfred's Delicatessen which was the favorite of

00:54:07.910 - 00:54:34.620

delicatessen here at the time. And um then we bought the house in Maryland because we couldn't buy the house in Woodside. But by that time most of my Jackie's and my peers friends had moved in that area. The schools is what pulled us also over there.

00:54:34.710 - 00:55:08.450

The schooling for our Children was better over there. And uh by that time Jackie and I had already had uh three Children. And so marlin was being built and the new section of it was just opening up and we bought our home on brace heather um

00:55:08.460 - 00:55:30.310

and help to form uh the P. T. O. Over at the school of the elementary school Culture elementary School. It was the first time I'd ever been a part of a P. T. O. It's always been P. T. A. And I put P. T. O. Meant

00:55:31.030 - 00:56:01.690

anyhow we worked very hard to make that school a good school. Yeah Then we were there for about five years, five or 6 years. And uh we had our fourth child. Becky prowler, his real name is Rebecca. Uh And she and we decided we'd outgrown that

00:56:01.690 - 00:56:25.490

house and went ahead and built a home in Memorial. And that was the first home that we'd ever built. Uh huh. And when was that, beg your pardon? And when when was that that you moved out to the memorial area? Becky was only a year old

00:56:25.490 - 00:56:52.740

at the time. She was a year when we moved into that house and I can't give you the date, exact date. Um Let's see. Becky is I gotta tell you how old Becky is and then we'll figure it out. Let's see. David is 69 Lisa is

00:56:55.180 - 00:57:20.460

Three years younger so she's 66. Uh Jody is three years younger So he's 63 And Becky is five years younger than that. So help me do the math. You tell me what year it was so it would have been not quite not quite 60 years ago.

00:57:20.470 - 00:57:41.740

Yeah. Okay. Was was Memorial a particularly jewish area at that time? Were there other jewish families? Not there were other people, there were other people what drew us out there also was my sister and brother in law Julin and Icr Rosenthal had I had started his

00:57:41.740 - 00:58:08.390

practice, he was a pediatrician and they were living in the spring branch area and this gave us a chance to be closer together. Uh We bought an acre of property there and built this house also. The schools were very good out there. Uh It was just

00:58:08.390 - 00:58:37.600

developing really did that that particular area where we lived in the March mont area was really Just developing well. So the kids went to school and that's, we lived in that house for 12 years. Uh And then the kids by that time had had grown up

00:58:37.600 - 00:58:57.070

and gone on off to college except for Deck E. And Jackie was in the banking business by then and we had a bank owned a bank in uh But I don't know if you want to go into that kind of situation or not if you want

00:58:57.070 - 00:59:26.660

to know about India where we went from there. We became nomads until about eight years before Jackie died. We were not, we were tree nomads. We lived wherever we lived, where we were at that time in our lives. And and I think it was one of

00:59:26.660 - 00:59:56.410

the most growing periods of our lives in in every way. Um It's almost as if I said that my life really began again when one evening I was sitting out by the swimming pool at our March my house which was quite a large home and I

00:59:56.420 - 01:00:15.410

looked up and the sky was absolutely beautiful. You could see the stars. You know it's so seldom you get to see the stockers anymore at night and I was lying on this lounge thing and I looked up and I said dear God, it is such a

01:00:15.410 - 01:00:44.070

beautiful evening, please bless me with experiencing and feeling and having to have the love that I want, please give me a life that's full of everything. And God looked down and said baby, you're gonna get it too, everything, all of it, the bad, the good, the

01:00:44.070 - 01:01:06.900

ugly and the wonderful and and that's what life is, It comes with the bad, the good, the ugly and the wonderful and it comes different ways. And from then on my life we did, we became really nomads. We we never lived in one home More than

01:01:06.900 - 01:01:31.460

5-6 years until the last home that we lived in uh which we lived in for for eight. Mhm. Eight years, you know, some people josh live in one house forever for 50 years. It's a very common thing to do, but that's not the way our lives

01:01:31.460 - 01:01:57.610

work. Yeah, I think it's I think it's less common now than it was before. But yeah, really people, people, your generation spend less time in one house. Yeah. People move for jobs, you know, they move to be closer to family, get further away from family, all

01:01:57.610 - 01:02:20.140

kinds of reasons Betsy, why don't we talk now about um your involvement um in the Jewish community here in Houston and I especially excited to ask you about your memories of the Israel expo at Emanuel in 1973 because I know you had a big part in

01:02:20.140 - 01:03:00.110

it. Well I did write a few things down. Um I really became involved in fundraising because that's what it's all about um with BRANDEIS University when I lived over in riverside uh in timber crest, I was asked to join and serve on the board and that

01:03:00.110 - 01:03:27.550

went from serving on the board, becoming president of the Women's Auxiliary. And that organization raised funds to fund the library BRANDEIS so that it would be one of the finest libraries in this country, which today I'm proud to say, I think it is. Uh so I

01:03:27.550 - 01:04:00.710

was president of that and then um I served as chair uh for the women's division, for the United jewish Appeal uh and raised money also served on the board of the jewish family service when it was being developed and when ruth was there and director Ruth

01:04:00.710 - 01:04:29.400

fred sure, Ruth fred and saw and worked in that and also worked in other organizations and and I tried, I was so busy being a mother, a wise and trying to work, be a part of the jewish community. It's almost like my ancestors were saying to

01:04:29.400 - 01:04:58.440

me, don't stop, keep going, this is what we're all about. And to this day I always try and keep my finger in something that has to do with my community in some aspect. So I got involved also in a lot of uh community things that were

01:04:58.440 - 01:05:25.390

not jewish to schools. I was always doing something in with the kids for the school and involved in in their work and their P. T. O. Or whatever. Uh Then came one day Rabbi cahn came over he and and Roselle Khan his wife had had dinner

01:05:25.390 - 01:05:50.830

with us one evening when we were living in memorial March month. And uh he asked Jackie he said Jackie we really need to get going here on some things and celebrate Israel and let the community know more about it. And I've got an idea and I

01:05:50.830 - 01:06:10.820

wanted to throw it to you and he and Jackie were always very close and very upfront with each other. He says I want to throw this idea out at you and see what you think. And so he talked about doing an Israel expo and he said

01:06:10.830 - 01:06:32.800

uh would you and chat would you and Betsy uh charity for us. And we said yes I mean you wouldn't turn Rabbi cahn, nobody would turn Rabbi cahn down or anything. So we said yes we would. So we got together with a group of people. He

01:06:32.800 - 01:06:58.920

was very helpful and giving us a list of names of people that he felt would be good to do various things in it and everybody became excited about it and uh it was one of the highlights of our life we're working together as a couple sharing

01:06:58.920 - 01:07:30.140

something together like that and and meeting and being with such wonderful people that we were with, who helped and devoted themselves to this particular cause it was awesome. Absolutely awesome to see how it was received by the community, by the community at large, not just the

01:07:30.140 - 01:07:54.370

jewish community, but the whole community and how they brought busses of people every single day, thousands of people got to be there and see it, we were very proud of, tell us what what it looked like, What did it sound like inside the temple? You there's

01:07:54.370 - 01:08:18.340

been uh as you know, a film made on this where Rabbi Cahn takes you through the expo itself, we decided that we wanted people to really feel and sense, have a sense of feeling like they were there in Jerusalem. So we built a small Jerusalem with

01:08:18.340 - 01:08:43.430

Infeld hall and we even had the wall there and people would come and put their prayers there. The wall. But it was, we had the marketplace where people could sell wares that were made in Israel. Artists, I have art in my home that were done by

01:08:43.440 - 01:09:15.540

artists there. Um there was not any aspect of life that was not shown. We had lecturers come and talk about agriculture. Um we had entertainers come to entertain, huh? We had food that we sold you that you ate. Uh that was food like you would have

01:09:15.540 - 01:09:49.410

if you were in Jerusalem or Israel when they left there when anyone came and they left there, they knew what Israel was about, who they were and what went on in every sense of the word, you know, culturally, politically uh religiously they had felt and experienced

01:09:49.410 - 01:10:05.500

it all. Yeah, it's it's an incredible video, the footage of Israel expo I've had a chance to watch it many times and to speak to other people who were there um but to hear your perspective on it as as the co chair is just really valuable

01:10:05.510 - 01:10:28.000

and I can't imagine, you know, any kind of event today drawing that kind. I mean it was like the rodeo, the kind of crowds that team, it's just just incredible and I'm sure you're very proud of it and I'm glad we had a chance to get

01:10:28.000 - 01:10:55.860

about it a little bit. I am so um we're getting closer to the end now and I want to just hear a little bit about more recent history bitsy and just some insights from you about these last couple of years because we've all experience the pandemic

01:10:55.860 - 01:11:17.480

in different ways and I would love to hear your reflections on what you, what you've learned in these, you know, past two years of, you know, lockdowns and distancing and doing you know, services and holidays on zoom and how you've, how you've kept in touch with

01:11:17.490 - 01:11:48.210

your family and your community and um during this, during this period conduct applied some of the things I learned as a child during World War Two. Um because I can, I can compare in many ways the aloneness that I felt. Then I felt during the pandemic.

01:11:48.220 - 01:12:24.110

It's a very alone feeling. Um however I learned to compensate for that when I was a child going through World War Two by fantasizing and reading through books, keeping my mind in another direction and filling it up with other thought, nice thoughts. So I got through

01:12:24.110 - 01:12:52.990

the pandemic by painting um that lonely feeling when I would feel it. Come on, I went ahead and started painting because I'm an artist. But that helped a great deal. I also uh kept very close touch with my family. Uh I did not isolate myself as

01:12:52.990 - 01:13:12.590

much as many of my peers did because thank God I'm healthy and uh, and I, you know, I felt that I could as long as I was protective of myself and careful, I could get through it, you know, get out and do whatever I needed to

01:13:12.600 - 01:13:42.590

do. So I've been very self sustaining socially. I missed physically socially being with people. But I have used this form of that we're using today uh to be with people. In fact I continued my tourist study every saturday on zoom throughout the epidemic. And uh, I

01:13:42.590 - 01:14:12.400

do my book club still today by zoom. Uh even though we don't have to anymore, but we still do it by zoom. So zoom has been a big help to me to be with people. Uh and uh I think that reading painting, being close, staying close

01:14:12.400 - 01:14:36.440

in touch with my family and my my friends by phone or by zoom or any way I possibly could has has taken me through it. Yeah, yeah, that's great. You know, hopefully the worst of it is behind us and um we can all look forward to

01:14:36.450 - 01:14:54.430

resuming so many of the activities that we've missed out on for the better part of these last couple of years. It's been quite an experience. Well, these are, you know, these are the trials and tribulations of life and I and I think that if you're you're

01:14:54.440 - 01:15:18.320

you're fooling yourself, if you think you're not going to go through something similar like this again. Uh these these are the challenges that we have in life and you learn to adapt and to try and keep yourself pliable enough to where you can switch and turn

01:15:18.320 - 01:15:55.500

and and move and do the things that life presents to you. Uh I think overcoming fear of change is one of the greatest challenges we face in life. Uh Some people can handle change better than others. I think because I was instilled with this wonderful feeling

01:15:55.510 - 01:16:23.880

that Rabbi cahn insisted that I had before I got confirmed spiritual feeling. I think that's what has truly kept me holes throughout all of life's endeavors. Those are very wise words, bitsy, thank you for sharing your perspective. I can say, you know, as a historian, I

01:16:23.890 - 01:16:41.560

study change for a career. Um but in my personal life I don't like change, I don't like change at all. And all of us have had to adapt to too much change too fast over these last couple of years, but I think we have a lot

01:16:41.570 - 01:17:07.130

to um be thankful for you know that we are here to enjoy life and and to have things to look forward to. And I really appreciate your taking the time to chat with me today about your memories, um your wonderful family and um your your perspective

01:17:07.140 - 01:17:20.880

looking back. Uh it's been quite a treat for me and I hope you've enjoyed it as well. Thank you so much, josh for giving me a chance to do so appreciate it, my pleasure.