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MANCHESTER: I’m Alex Manchester, and I’m here with Ashley Song. MANCHESTER: We’re here on Tuesday, February 6, 2023, [correcting MANCHESTER: themself] 2024. Still haven’t gotten used to that, to the MANCHESTER: new year. So, I guess we’ll

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MANCHESTER: start with the very basic questions. MANCHESTER: Can you tell us your name? JONES: Frank Jones. MANCHESTER: Okay, and what’s your position here at Rice?

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JONES: I’m a math professor. MANCHESTER: So now, maybe some more meaty questions. MANCHESTER: When and where did you grow up? JONES: I was born in 1936, in Amarillo,

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JONES: Texas. And that’s where I lived. JONES: Until I graduated from high school. MANCHESTER: Okay, have you lived in Texas all your life? JONES: All my life.

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MANCHESTER: How do you like it here? MANCHESTER: What do you think about Texas? JONES: I like Texas a lot. MANCHESTER: Is there anything in particular you like about it?

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JONES: I guess I like it because it’s familiar to me. MANCHESTER: Okay, that’s a good reason. MANCHESTER: Can you tell us about your family? MANCHESTER: Growing up?

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JONES: Yep. I’m an only child. JONES: My father was a JONES: dentist. Practiced for over fifty years JONES: in Amarillo. He never had an employee.

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JONES: His father was a dentist. JONES: And my father’s brother was a dentist. JONES: They all worked on the fourth floor of the same downtown building. JONES: And I, being an only child, and a male,

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JONES: I think everybody assumed I would become a dentist. MANCHESTER: That’s very fun. I guess, what did you think about MANCHESTER: dentistry when you were a kid? MANCHESTER: Did you also assume you would become a dentist?

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JONES: No, I never assumed that. JONES: I was open to it, but I just never assumed it. MANCHESTER: Also, what about memories from your childhood relating to mathematics? MANCHESTER: Do you have anything that stands out?

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JONES: Well, I was very good at mathematics. JONES: And good teachers all the way through. JONES: One of the greatest memories is when I was in elementary school. JONES: We would have worksheets to bring home with us for homework

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JONES: every night. A whole page of problems. JONES: And when I would get home, my mother would tell JONES: me, “Okay, do your worksheet. JONES: And then you can go play.” And so, I did my worksheet and gave

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JONES: it to her. And she would hand it back to me in a few minutes and JONES: said, “Well, it’s good, but you have three that are wrong.” JONES: And I had to fix it. JONES: And she wouldn’t tell me which three.

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MANCHESTER: Did you enjoy that? JONES: Well, I loved it. JONES: It was like a game. MANCHESTER: So, you talked about your dad and sort

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MANCHESTER: of the male members of your family. MANCHESTER: What about your mom? MANCHESTER: Was she a homemaker? JONES: She was a homemaker.

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JONES: She was a very accomplished pianist. JONES: And I believe at the age of ten, she JONES: got written up in the New York Times. MANCHESTER & SONG: Oh, wow.

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JONES: For her expertise. JONES: She never had a job, JONES: except homemaker. And I would hear her playing the piano all the time, JONES: which I enjoyed.

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MANCHESTER: Did she just play the piano at home or also outside? JONES: Just at home. When she got married, JONES: she just put herself in the family. JONES: That was it. And I had a very interesting location

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JONES: in Amarillo. One block away, both sets of my grandparents JONES: lived. And I could walk across a vacant lot to see JONES: them. MANCHESTER: I guess, what did you do at your grandparents’ house,

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MANCHESTER: or what did they do with you? JONES: I played games with my grandfather. JONES: One of my grandparents. MANCHESTER: Was there anyone in your family who particularly inspired you

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MANCHESTER: to pursue a career in math? JONES: Nobody. SONG: I remember you said that you had some pretty good SONG: education and teachers.

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SONG: Was there any teacher in particular who kind of stands out to SONG: you? JONES: It’s the teacher of what you would now call Algebra JONES: 2. And that was my senior year.

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JONES: That’s as high as our school went. JONES: Kate Wilson was her name. JONES: She was a spinster. JONES: Very, very good teacher.

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JONES: Just tremendous. JONES: Very friendly. Of course, there JONES: were no girls in Algebra 2 in those days. JONES: It was pretty standard.

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JONES: But she always tried to encourage us boys JONES: as to how wonderful it would be when we learned calculus. JONES: But they didn’t teach it in high school. MANCHESTER: There were no girls in Algebra 2.

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MANCHESTER: Was it unusual for a woman to be teaching the class? JONES: Oh, I never thought about that. JONES: I don’t know. I had a lot of female teachers in JONES: my high school. Just never was an issue with me.

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SONG: So, did most of the schools in the general area at the time SONG: go up to Algebra 2, or was SONG: it kind of different? SONG: Because I know that now, a lot of schools go up to calculus.

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JONES: Oh, I don’t think it was ever heard of, that you JONES: could learn calculus in Texas. JONES: I don’t think it was ever heard of, that you could actually learn calculus in high school. MANCHESTER: I think I’ll let Ashley

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MANCHESTER: take the lead for the next few questions. SONG: So, was there anything else that SONG: inspired you to pursue a career in math? SONG: Like, any books you’ve read or anything else?

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JONES: So, when I went to Rice, JONES: I decided to major in chemical engineering because JONES: I figured out that was a really good department: JONES: good professors, good students.

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JONES: And so, I figured, well, I’ll learn a lot of chemistry. JONES: If I ever wanted to be a dentist, at least I’ll have that. JONES: So, that was my major. JONES: I graduated in 1958 with

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JONES: the Bachelor of Arts degree from Rice Institute. SONG: What was Rice Institute like? SONG: How is it similar or different from how Rice is now? JONES: Extremely different, because at

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JONES: the beginning of my senior year at Rice, the college JONES: system started. JONES: So, instead of living in a dorm, and eating with a bunch of JONES: guys, we suddenly were eating with females.

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JONES: And that made a huge difference in the atmosphere on campus. JONES: Dinners were much more congenial and less rowdy. JONES: It was a great thing that happened there. MANCHESTER: This is just because I don’t know.

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MANCHESTER: Did Rice admit women and they were just in separate dorms before that? JONES: Rice admitted women from the very beginning. JONES: But there was no place on campus for them to live. JONES: So, Rice had some apartments off-campus, of course.

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JONES: And that’s where the girls would live. SONG: So, I’m actually curious. SONG: Which residential college were you in, in senior year? JONES: I was in Will Rice.

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SONG: I see. So, how was SONG: the response to SONG: this pretty drastic change from dorms to residential SONG: colleges? Like, what was the general student response to that?

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JONES: We were thrilled. Everyone was just very, very happy about JONES: this. MANCHESTER: Could you say why were people happy? MANCHESTER: What were they excited about?

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JONES: They got to eat with girls! JONES: The people I knew were, JONES: of course, almost all boys. SONG: Okay, so I remember you said that you were in chemical

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SONG: engineering. How was the transition from that to math? JONES: Well, that’s a major story in my life. JONES: I got married at the end of JONES: my junior year.

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JONES: And, wait a minute. JONES: Yeah, the end of my junior year. JONES: And I did very, very well in chemical engineering. JONES: I won a National Science Foundation fellowship

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JONES: to go to MIT and study physical chemistry. JONES: So, in April of my senior year, we were planning JONES: our trip to Massachusetts. JONES: But my math professor

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JONES: called me into his office in April. JONES: And he said, “I know about your going to JONES: MIT and your physical chemistry. JONES: I know all about that. But you’re not going to

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JONES: do that. You’re going to stay at Rice. JONES: You’re going to study mathematics. JONES: And I’m going to be your advisor.” And I was terrified JONES: of this man. Terrified.

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JONES: All I could think of to say was, “Yes, sir.” So, I did. JONES: I would say that’s the JONES: second most important major thing that happened in my life. JONES: It was that afternoon in his office.

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JONES: And I put it together with the first most important major thing in my life, which JONES: was when I was fifteen years old, I became a follower of Jesus JONES: Christ and grew in JONES: following him and being devoted to him.

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JONES: And I’m quite sure that he used Jim JONES: Douglas, Jr., to turn me around, in the JONES: way I was going to live my life. JONES: So, I went home and told my wife the

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JONES: change, and she said, “What? JONES: Why did you do that?” And I couldn’t answer. JONES: I had to do it. JONES: And he was the best advisor for a

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JONES: Ph.D. that I have ever seen in action. JONES: So, this will be interesting to Alex. JONES: I spent three years as a graduate student and JONES: ended with a Ph.D.

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JONES: And I thought, well, that’s just normal. JONES: But now that I’m seeing how things really go, it’s not normal at all [It normally JONES: takes five or six years.]. He had some problems for me that he thought I could JONES: do. Of course, he wouldn’t work on them with me.

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JONES: And he hounded me all the time. JONES: “How are you doing on this problem? JONES: How are you doing on this problem?” And I would have to go explain to him, either, JONES: “Well, I didn’t get anywhere today,” or, “I made a little progress.”

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JONES: And he kept guiding me through my life. JONES: Oh, he did all of the paperwork to get my NSF JONES: fellowship changed from chemical engineering to mathematics and from JONES: MIT to Rice.

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JONES: I didn’t have to apply or anything. JONES: He just made it happen. JONES: I don’t know how he did JONES: that! And then, when I graduated,

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JONES: during my senior year, he got me an interview with IBM in New JONES: York. Because I had studied a partial differential JONES: equation called the heat equation, and IBM was JONES: having trouble with their computing facilities because they were

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JONES: overheating. And so, they thought, and Jim Douglas thought, JONES: well, maybe I could help them with their heating problems. JONES: And so, I did the interview. JONES: By the way, that was my first airplane ride.

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JONES: And when I got back to Rice, it turned JONES: out they did not make me an offer. JONES: And so, Plan B was also done JONES: by Jim Douglas to go to New York University at

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JONES: something called the Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences, a huge, JONES: fourteen-story building in Greenwich Village. JONES: And he got me a postdoc there. JONES: I didn’t have to apply.

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JONES: I just had to say, “Oh, yeah. JONES: I’ll go.” SONG: So, how did he get to know you first? SONG: Like, did you take one of his courses?

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JONES: I took one of his courses. SONG: Do you want to talk a little bit about SONG: that? JONES: It’s all vague. I enjoyed his courses.

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JONES: I thought they were really hard. JONES: But I guess for the first time, in a math course, I JONES: felt like, maybe I have some talent here. JONES: Maybe. I just didn’t really know for sure.

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JONES: But he was a great teacher. JONES: Great teacher. And a very good friend. JONES: I was his first Ph.D. JONES: student because he had just moved to Rice from

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JONES: Humble Oil and Refining Co., now called Exxon, JONES: where he and two of his colleagues had invented JONES: high-speed computing JONES: systems to solve differential equations.

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JONES: And before them, people just used crank calculators. JONES: But he and his colleagues figured out how to get JONES: around the round-off error caused by thousands of computations. JONES: And they managed to find oil and gas in the ground and

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JONES: so forth. But he had never been a teacher, so he came to JONES: Rice as a teacher. MANCHESTER: You said that he was the best advisor you’d ever seen. MANCHESTER: What made him that?

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MANCHESTER: What made him so good as an advisor? JONES: I think he poured himself into me. JONES: Just made me do things the way he did them. JONES: He would read my proofs, and he would correct them.

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JONES: Tell me how to do it better. JONES: He was just constantly on my case. SONG: What was the research that you were doing with him? SONG: What particular fields?

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JONES: Partial differential equations. SONG: I see. MANCHESTER: Well, MANCHESTER: maybe just a basic question for the lay people who might

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MANCHESTER: be listening to this. Could you say a bit about what partial differential equations MANCHESTER: means? JONES: Certainly. In nature, things are always moving, and JONES: they depend on several parameters.

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JONES: They move in space and in time. JONES: And so, their properties are functions of not JONES: just one variable, but several real variables. JONES: If you’re dealing with functions of one variable, you call them

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JONES: ordinary differential equations. JONES: You just have to be able to take derivatives with one variable. JONES: But in these, you have to take derivatives in all the variables. JONES: There’s some equation they have to satisfy.

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JONES: It’s a huge field. JONES: Huge field. My particular problem was in a linear JONES: differential equation of second order. JONES: Kind of the most basic differential equation you can imagine.

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JONES: And still, there were things that were not known about it. MANCHESTER: Thanks. I think, pivoting back to mentoring, how MANCHESTER: have you approached mentoring others in mathematics? MANCHESTER: As an advisor, otherwise?

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JONES: I’m not nearly as successful as he was, but I have a few JONES: Ph.D. students of my own, and I tried to do it the same way that he JONES: did. I gave them ideas for things they might try. JONES: And I had them come present their results to me.

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JONES: And I would critique them. JONES: So, that’s the only way I knew how to do anything. SONG: During your undergraduate and graduate time, were SONG: there any particular obstacles that you encountered

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SONG: in terms of math? SONG: And how did you deal with those? JONES: There weren’t any. I’m sorry. JONES: I absolutely loved mathematics.

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JONES: I never dreamed I would be a professor, because JONES: all the professors I knew, including my advisor, were so JONES: far above me. I couldn’t imagine myself doing anything JONES: like what they did, or teaching so beautifully as they did.

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JONES: And so, I had really pinned my hopes on the IBM offer. JONES: It didn’t happen. But JONES: when I walked across the stage to get my Ph.D., JONES: we had an interim president, and he gave me my diploma.

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JONES: And he said, “We hope you’re back next year.” JONES: So, they already had their eye on me. JONES: I’m sure it’s because of Jim Douglas. SONG: In terms of when you first became a professor at Rice, how was

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SONG: that like? JONES: Oh, it was thrilling. SONG: Any particular memories associated with your first-time teaching? JONES: Oh, funny memory.

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JONES: I was teaching in the physics JONES: amphitheater. And JONES: somehow, the student heard JONES: that I had had a baby.

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JONES: My wife and I had had a baby. JONES: And so, I came in, and I started to teach. JONES: And all of a sudden, everybody got out a cigar and lit it up. JONES: And congratulated

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JONES: me. MANCHESTER: Could you tell us about some of the people that you’ve worked MANCHESTER: with over the years? Any significant MANCHESTER: proper collaboration or people in the department that have been significant to

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MANCHESTER: you or your career? JONES: There are too many to name. JONES: One of the things I love is that many of our graduates, JONES: when they have gone away, have become math professors.

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JONES: And I like to think it’s because of the math department at Rice. JONES: Not me, in particular. JONES: I think the math department was extremely friendly JONES: and eager to have their students succeed.

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JONES: So, let me give you an example. JONES: One of my teachers was Hubert Bray. JONES: He was the first Ph.D. JONES: at Rice.

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JONES: 191-something [a year]. JONES: And I taught his two grandsons. JONES: Didn’t teach his son because his son didn’t know anything about math, but his grandsons JONES: both got Bachelor’s degrees in math from Rice and now, they’re both

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JONES: professors at the Department of Mathematics at Duke University. JONES: So, that’s a really outstanding thing that happened. JONES: I have another memory that goes back to being an undergraduate. JONES: My senior, my junior year, I

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JONES: had three roommates. JONES: We were in the new college. JONES: One was a very famous guy, Frank Ryan, who went on to JONES: be a professional football player.

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JONES: And he died recently. JONES: Another was Kip Murray, who was a philosophy major. JONES: And another was William Wardlaw, who was a physics major. JONES: And Frank Ryan was a physics major.

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JONES: And I was a chemical engineering major. JONES: So, these four people, unbeknownst to one another, JONES: all became Ph.D. JONES: mathematicians. I think

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JONES: Rice should take some credit for that because even though they were not math JONES: majors, they were learning some really wonderful mathematics. SONG: So, was math a popular major at first? JONES: No.

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SONG: No? JONES: No, it wasn’t popular. No. SONG: Do you think over the years, it has increased in popularity, SONG: perhaps?

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JONES: I can’t tell. JONES: Maybe a little bit. JONES: Of course, now, we can study mathematics not just in our department, JONES: but in at least one other department.

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JONES: And other departments are turning to becoming more and more JONES: mathematical. So, I think the mathematical landscape JONES: at Rice right now is really wonderful. MANCHESTER: When you were an undergrad, were the popular majors sciences or were

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MANCHESTER: they humanities? JONES: Engineering. SONG: Was that reflective of what was trending during SONG: the time? Because I know that right now, machine

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SONG: learning and that type of thing is getting really trendy, so computer science is like SONG: that. Were there any particular things at the time that were making engineering super SONG: trendy? JONES: I don’t know. Oh, besides engineering, we had a great physics program and a great

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JONES: chemistry program. No, I JONES: don’t know. MANCHESTER: So, you’ve been a professor at Rice for a very long time. MANCHESTER: How long has it been?

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JONES: This year I will finish year number sixty-two. MANCHESTER: I guess, what MANCHESTER: are some of the big changes MANCHESTER: in Rice, your career, mathematics that’s happening

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MANCHESTER: here? What are some of the ways that the changes that have MANCHESTER: happened have impacted you? JONES: The math department over the years has been very aggressive JONES: about trying to hire the best possible people.

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JONES: For instance, nowadays, we’ll JONES: try to hire, let’s say, a very good assistant professor. JONES: And we’ll have a list. JONES: Not quite an ordered list, but we have tiers.

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JONES: And inevitably, the first three or four people JONES: turn us down, and they say, “Oh, I enjoyed my trip to JONES: Rice. I would really like to be a professor there. JONES: But—” And then they have all sorts of other things, like a

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JONES: two-body problem, if you know what I mean. JONES: “I can’t JONES: imagine myself living in Houston, Texas!” People are sort of JONES: over that, but for a while, that was really a big thing.

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JONES: They didn’t want to go away from the centers of JONES: academia all the way to Houston. JONES: They felt they would be too isolated. MANCHESTER: Could you say what a two-body problem is?

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JONES: That they have a spouse or a partner that they’re with, JONES: and they want to be with them. JONES: So, that’s one of their, of course, their natural considerations. MANCHESTER: Also, you mentioned that you had plans to move to Massachusetts to be at

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MANCHESTER: MIT that then got sort of quickly, suddenly changed. JONES: Yes. MANCHESTER: And you came home and told your wife. MANCHESTER: Was your wife

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MANCHESTER: employed? Has she worked? MANCHESTER: What does she do? JONES: She graduated from college a year before I did. JONES: She became an elementary school 4th grade school teacher,

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JONES: which she did for our first two-and-a-half years of marriage. JONES: And then she got pregnant and didn’t teach anymore. JONES: She was very fulfilled with her life. SONG: You mentioned that you were a postdoc at NYU.

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SONG: So, what was your experience like there? JONES: It was awesome! JONES: In my field, there were three or four JONES: huge stars in the mathematics world.

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JONES: And Alex will know some of the names of Bers, JONES: Courant, Nirenberg, mostly not in your field. MANCHESTER: I know the names. JONES: And all I had to do was

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JONES: show up and go to their lectures. JONES: I didn’t have to do any work at all. JONES: I just learned and learned from them. JONES: Peter Lax is another one.

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JONES: You may have heard of him. JONES: This was where partial differential equations was at its best in the United JONES: States at that time. JONES: And that was my field.

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MANCHESTER: Did you like living in New York? JONES: Yeah, we loved it. We lived on the JONES: twelfth floor of a high-rise. JONES: Had a one-bedroom apartment.

00:33:55.210 - 00:34:15.130

JONES: And I still remember, and it was furnished. JONES: I still remember it cost four hundred and fifty JONES: dollars a month. And we thought, “This is expensive!” JONES: But in hindsight, it was quite a deal.

00:34:16.090 - 00:34:32.910

JONES: Because we had no car expenses. JONES: We couldn’t have a car in New York City. JONES: So, we lived pretty luxuriously. SONG: So, the notable individuals that you listed, I know that some people may not

00:34:33.100 - 00:34:50.090

SONG: be super familiar with them. SONG: Maybe you could talk a little bit about who they were and what they were super well-known SONG: for? JONES: Well, I’ve had some very, very good friends.

00:34:54.600 - 00:35:09.250

JONES: One of my favorites is Dennis Huston. JONES: He was an English professor. JONES: He knew no mathematics. JONES: But he was an accomplished teacher.

00:35:11.750 - 00:35:25.120

JONES: And we became quite good friends. JONES: We played tennis together. JONES: We played racquetball together. JONES: My son, who went to Rice, took a public speaking

00:35:25.650 - 00:35:40.190

JONES: course from Dennis Huston, where enrollment was JONES: limited, and you got chosen by drawing JONES: from a deck of cards. JONES: And my son drew the ace of hearts.

00:35:41.150 - 00:35:54.560

JONES: And it changed his life. JONES: He became a very, very good public speaker. JONES: So, Dennis Huston is one. JONES: A lot of math professors.

00:35:55.380 - 00:36:22.420

JONES: Very, very close. JONES: A civil engineering professor, John Merwin. JONES: I was a very close friend with him, with his wife. JONES: That’s about the ones that I was

00:36:23.570 - 00:36:41.490

JONES: very, very close to. JONES: I have several now, but I prefer not to use their names. JONES: For their own sake. [Laughter] SONG: So how was the math

00:36:43.180 - 00:36:56.360

SONG: department at NYU similar or different from the one at Rice? JONES: Altogether different. JONES: They. Yeah, at the Courant Institute. JONES: There weren't any undergraduates.

00:36:57.490 - 00:37:15.500

JONES: It was all graduate students or professors. JONES: And somewhere in the huge NYU system, there were the undergraduates. JONES: So there's no comparison. JONES: I did have a sabbatical at the University of Minnesota for a year.

00:37:16.430 - 00:37:34.910

JONES: And there I actually was a halftime sabbatical and halftime JONES: instructor. So I got to teach some of the undergraduates there. JONES: They were eager. They weren't as sharp as the JONES: ones that I knew at Rice.

00:37:35.480 - 00:37:50.880

JONES: But they were eager. It was fun. JONES: I really enjoyed JONES: it. MANCHESTER: Could you tell us a bit about how the mathematics that you

00:37:51.160 - 00:38:07.870

MANCHESTER: do or have done has changed over the course of your career. MANCHESTER: Have there been any big outstanding problems solved? MANCHESTER: Big upheavals in the way that your field is done. JONES: Yes. There have been.

00:38:10.890 - 00:38:25.790

JONES: I was sort of involved in one of them. JONES: But only as an outsider. JONES: This will not mean anything to you at all. JONES: But there was an outstanding problem about Fourier series.

00:38:27.450 - 00:38:46.700

JONES: And that was this: If you have a continuous function, does its JONES: Fourier series have to converge at almost all points? JONES: And nobody knew the answer to that. JONES: And while I was a young professor at Rice, it

00:38:48.310 - 00:39:06.780

JONES: was solved by a Swedish mathematician named Carleson. JONES: And during my JONES: sabbatical at, oh I didn't mention that I had a sabbatical at the JONES: Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton.

00:39:08.560 - 00:39:24.520

JONES: And Carleson was not there, but Hörmander was there, also Swedish, and they were great JONES: rivals. And so Hörmander, I think, was secretly JONES: upset that Carleson got this result and JONES: not Hörmander.

00:39:25.450 - 00:39:41.140

JONES: And so he ran a seminar. JONES: He was the seminar leader. JONES: And there were two of us, another postdoc, another JONES: sabbatical guy like myself, same age and everything.

00:39:43.280 - 00:40:06.200

JONES: And the seminar was for this other guy and I to give JONES: lectures to Hörmander explaining Carleson's theorem. JONES: And that was that was a lot of fun, but a lot of work. JONES: So that's the main one that I was actually involved in.

00:40:11.260 - 00:40:26.690

SONG: Oh, were there like any other ones that you could think SONG: of? JONES: Well, the most famous recent one was the solution of Fermat's JONES: Last Theorem by Andrew Wiles.

00:40:28.470 - 00:40:43.230

JONES: And when that was announced, JONES: Robin Forman, who used to be a professor here, he ran a seminar JONES: on Andrew Wiles's proof. JONES: And of course, we all went.

00:40:44.440 - 00:41:04.720

JONES: And then a couple of weeks ago, one of the assistant JONES: professors gave a colloquium talk for JONES: the undergraduates on Andrew Wiles. JONES: So I would say that's the most huge news in the mathematical

00:41:04.720 - 00:41:24.420

JONES: world that I've ever known about. MANCHESTER: What are some of the big changes that you've observed over your career in the MANCHESTER: mathematical community or culture MANCHESTER: broadly construed?

00:41:24.420 - 00:41:44.050

JONES: The young people are stronger than ever! JONES: And as you know, in the math department, we have a lot of young JONES: mathematicians. These people are really, really JONES: good. And I think they're excellent teachers.

00:41:45.770 - 00:42:02.330

JONES: Cause for a long time JONES: universities didn't stress teaching to the degree that they should, I think. JONES: But now they've come around. JONES: And Rice University takes teaching

00:42:03.170 - 00:42:17.590

JONES: very seriously–whoo! JONES: And I think it shows. JONES: I think the students who come here are really in for a treat because there's JONES: so many wonderful teachers.

00:42:21.080 - 00:42:40.900

SONG: So in terms of like the general mathematical community, SONG: are there any changes you SONG: hope to see in the future for them? JONES: Not that I hope to see, but I think they're going to happen.

00:42:41.500 - 00:43:08.190

JONES: It's just the nature of the beast that we're going to get better and JONES: better. MANCHESTER: What are your hopes about your own future? MANCHESTER: I saw the email I think yesterday that you've officially announced

00:43:08.190 - 00:43:24.870

MANCHESTER: your retirement at the end of next academic year. MANCHESTER: You’ve still got a year. MANCHESTER: How do you feel about retirement? JONES: I feel very optimistic about it.

00:43:27.960 - 00:43:44.110

JONES: I not only teach At Rice, I teach at my church. JONES: Have a pretty big Bible class every Sunday morning that I JONES: thoroughly enjoy. JONES: And I think I will continue doing that.

00:43:49.090 - 00:44:06.220

JONES: Our chair eagerly offered me JONES: that if I'm still available after I retire, I could teach a course or two. JONES: They would welcome that. JONES: And the way I feel right now, I would welcome it.

00:44:07.000 - 00:44:25.030

JONES: But I don't know. I have no bucket list. MANCHESTER: How does teaching the Bible class at your church differ from teaching MANCHESTER: mathematics at a university? JONES: Well that's entirely different because when I'm teaching a math course

00:44:26.600 - 00:44:41.020

JONES: I am the expert, not my students. JONES: I like to get input from them. JONES: But when I'm teaching a Bible course, I am not an expert because I JONES: don't believe there are any experts on the Bible.

00:44:42.690 - 00:45:01.490

JONES: And so we have a freewheeling discussion every Sunday. JONES: And all sorts of people talk and I learn a lot. JONES: When I'm teaching a math course, I don't usually learn much of anything. JONES: Teaching the Bible is another realm.

00:45:02.990 - 00:45:13.710

MANCHESTER: How long have you been teaching the Bible course? JONES: Nobody knows. JONES: About 50 years. MANCHESTER: Okay.

00:45:19.110 - 00:45:33.850

MANCHESTER: At the same church? JONES: At the same church. SONG: Have you had any favorite classes that you've taught SONG: in general?

00:45:34.540 - 00:45:44.450

JONES: Well, I have one right now. JONES: It's called Complex Analysis. JONES: That's sort of my favorite. JONES: But I like any math course I'm teaching.

00:45:45.210 - 00:46:02.530

JONES: I just love it. MANCHESTER: You mentioned the story where everyone MANCHESTER: got out a cigar to celebrate your baby. MANCHESTER: Are there any other anecdotes you have about teaching

00:46:04.510 - 00:46:22.900

MANCHESTER: or your career? JONES: Two or three years ago, I was teaching MATH 221, the JONES: honors multivariable calculus. JONES: And at the end of the year, a

00:46:24.930 - 00:46:43.020

JONES: small group of students had designed a t-shirt about our class. JONES: It included a photograph of myself and all sorts JONES: of sayings that I made that they thought were funny. JONES: So that was a wonderful surprise.

00:46:44.880 - 00:46:54.210

MANCHESTER: Oh, well now, now that I've mentioned your baby again, MANCHESTER: was that your only child? MANCHESTER: Did you have more children? MANCHESTER: Could you tell us about them?

00:46:54.210 - 00:47:09.730

JONES: I have three children. MANCHESTER: Okay. Could you tell us about your children? JONES: I'm thrilled. All of them are teachers. JONES: My oldest is in her early

00:47:09.730 - 00:47:32.400

JONES: sixties. She's teaching JONES: high school in an accommodated learning place in the Dallas area. JONES: And she loves it. My second oldest was JONES: a PhD in finance from the University of Kansas

00:47:34.960 - 00:47:49.840

JONES: and she was a finance professor for many years. JONES: And about two years ago, JONES: she passed away. MANCHESTER: I'm sorry to hear that.

00:47:50.570 - 00:48:00.930

JONES: She was never married. JONES: She had a wonderful life. JONES: Had a dear friend that we've sort of adopted as JONES: my child anyway.

00:48:00.930 - 00:48:16.150

JONES: And then our youngest was a Rice graduate, David, JONES: a boy. He became a missionary. JONES: He majored in math and Russian. JONES: He became a missionary in Russia for many years,

00:48:18.370 - 00:48:34.300

JONES: married a Russian woman, and they now live in Kansas JONES: with three children and he's a math professor at JONES: Johnson County Community College. JONES: So all three of my children became teachers.

00:48:36.680 - 00:48:55.750

JONES: Not at my urging. JONES: I think they just saw how wonderful it was to be a teacher. MANCHESTER: The new family occupation after dentistry. SONG: Oh, is there any

00:48:55.860 - 00:49:13.690

SONG: advice you would give to maybe people who are looking SONG: into getting into teaching or just getting into math SONG: in general? MANCHESTER: Hmm. I don't know.

00:49:14.970 - 00:49:28.910

MANCHESTER: It's hard to say. MANCHESTER: Like I'm not a very good example. MANCHESTER: I was not playing to be a professor. MANCHESTER: I was not playing to be a mathematician.

00:49:31.000 - 00:49:49.210

MANCHESTER: But I guess when the opportunity arises it would MANCHESTER: be a good idea to at least think about MANCHESTER: it. SONG: Let's see.

00:49:49.210 - 00:50:02.370

SONG: I don't have any more questions.If you have more questions or if you have SONG: something else you'd like to say. MANCHESTER: I don't have any more questions either but if there's like anything else you would like to MANCHESTER: talk about…

00:50:02.620 - 00:50:13.810

[Laughter] MANCHESTER: Are there any stray thoughts you have during the conversation like to talk about? MANCHESTER: That you thought you’d like to go back to? JONES: Well, that's a good question.

00:50:13.810 - 00:50:29.830

JONES: You should have warned me. JONES: Well, I'll say this. JONES: I think Rice University is an JONES: absolutely great university.

00:50:32.240 - 00:50:49.270

JONES: I like that it is diversifying so much. JONES: I like that it welcomes students from everywhere. JONES: I just think it's JONES: an ideal place.

00:50:49.960 - 00:51:07.850

JONES: Not perfect. But ideal. JONES: One of the things that I was JONES: involved with as a bystander was that Jim Douglas, JONES: my advisor, knew of a

00:51:08.170 - 00:51:27.860

JONES: young math student at the University of Texas, JONES: and he was black, and so he wanted JONES: to get this student to come to Rice as a graduate student. JONES: But he couldn't because it was against the current

00:51:31.530 - 00:51:51.450

JONES: rules. He had JONES: an Air Force grant to do research, JONES: and so he wiggled around and got this student JONES: on that grant, and so he came to Rice.

00:51:52.400 - 00:52:10.140

JONES: Was a full time student, but he was on Jim Douglas’s JONES: Air Force grant. His name is Raymond Johnson. JONES: He's a pretty famous alum because of his skin color. JONES: And he had a great career as a mathematician.

00:52:11.620 - 00:52:31.900

JONES: He was chair of a huge math department, University of Maryland, for many JONES: years. Terrific guy. JONES: So, I'm glad that Rice was, JONES: that somehow mathematics was ahead of the game in

00:52:34.550 - 00:52:53.340

JONES: in allowing students of all colors. MANCHESTER: Yeah, thank you so much for sharing. MANCHESTER: We have some Fondren merch MANCHESTER: to give you.

00:52:53.340 - 00:52:59.300

SONG: Thank you! MANCHESTER: And there’s some candy in there, too. JONES: Thank you! MANCHESTER: Thank you so much for joining us.

00:52:59.300 - 00:53:06.330

MANCHESTER: It's been really wonderful to talk to you. SONG: Thank you so much. JONES: It was fun! [to Manchester] You've never been my student have you? MANCHESTER: No, I haven't.

00:53:06.530 - 00:53:07.640

JONES: Yeah, that's funny.