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Hello everyone, today is January 29th, and my name is Helen Pu. And I will be interviewing on behalf of the Houston Asian American Arch ive with Mr. Frank Chou, and in the later portion, we will have his daughter, Helen Chou, come on to kind of have a discussion about their family history.

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So, we're gonna first start with a brief, I guess, interrogation into his life. So first we'll start with his early life. Mr. Chou, would you like to briefly talk about that first? I had a very happy childhood with boundless love

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from my parents and family. It was frugal, but we never suffered from hunger or cold. I lived in the beautiful rural country of Taiwan in my early life and learned the love for nature.

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I was able to do well at school and easily progressed to college. So, I will let you, Helen, start with your questions. Yeah, sure. So, maybe starting off with where and when were you born?

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Okay. I was born in Taiwan. This is after the second—World War Two. I was born in 1948. Yeah. And do you have any siblings?

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Yes, I have one elder sister and two younger brothers. My eldest sister is one year older. My brothers were born three years and nine years younger than I.

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Cool. And were they also born in Taiwan? Yes, they're all born in Taiwan. My sister, of course, was the first one—she was born in '47.

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So this was, again, early days of the immigration rush from Mainland. Yeah. And how would you describe the household you grew up in?

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So any, like, values that your parents instilled? We grew up in a company-provided compound of townhomes.

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My dad was working for Taiwan Power—Taipower Company. So we have this clusters of homes built by Taipower.

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They're simple and small, but adequate. Yeah, that's good. And how was it getting along with your siblings? We had fun and we got together really well, with our age

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difference. We really took care of each other. We had a good time. That's good. And your parents, when they were working, what was like their parenting kind of like?

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Oh, they just gave us everything that they could. My dad was working, my mother has been a housewife. But she devoted all her energy to us. We're very fortunate to

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have a warm and nice family. Yeah, and I guess, how do you think your early childhood has shaped who you are today? It made me feel

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very confident, and with a generous attitude to people, and be sincere. You know,

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things that my parents taught us I think helped us a lot, are filial piety, diligence, pursuit of excellence, honesty, kindness, and they’re loyal

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to country. Yeah, that's really cool. And what schools did you go to in Taiwan, if you remember? I went to a elementary school that was provided again by Taipower.

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It's small. But the teachers are very, very good. Classes are small. We liked our classmates,

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even though my sister and I were the very, very few students who were considered as from Mainland China. We–we lived in the countryside. But most of the classmates were from local Taiwan

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families. We–we had great time. The–the—like I said, the scenery was beautiful. We didn't have any real pressure, we didn't have to go to supplementary schools to

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get into high school, you know, that sort of thing. We had plenty of time to have fun. It was all in rural country, you know, we—the mountains, the river, trees are our playground [laughs].

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I still remember those days. And played with our friends—we didn't have any, park, you know, like, playgrounds, things like that. The dirt is basically

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our playground. We–we dig holes into the earth and get those worms out of the earth. We chased the chicken or duck in the backyard.

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And there are all kinds of things in–in the country that we–we can play. Yeah, that's—that sounds fun. And where exactly are you from?

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Which city? And which part of the Mainland did your family come from? My parents, originally they're—I guess my grandparents were from a province called Zhejiang, which is south of Jiangsu or Shanghai,

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okay. But then from my father and my mother, they—or maybe even their parents, they started moving to Fujian, which is the province south of Zhejiang.

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So they lived in Xiamen, which is pretty close to Kuemoy, or you know, across the strait from Taiwan. They lived there for their childhood

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or most of the school years. So they–they moved from Xiamen to Taiwan around 1946 or '47.

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Okay, I see, very cool. So yeah. Is there anything else that you would like to add about your early childhood before we move on? No, that's it. So go ahead.

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Okay, cool. I guess like, we'll talk about your college now. So which college did you attend? I went to Taiwan University. And like I said, I–I did pretty well during the

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school years. Okay, what I didn't cover in the childhood, I guess, was my high school years. So let me back up a little bit. I—my–my family moved from that rural country in the middle part

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of—central part of Taiwan, to Taipei, when I—just about the time when I started my middle school. From middle school, I went to the high school of Taiwan Normal University, I spent six years there.

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And I did well enough that I didn't have to take the normal entrance exam to get into the college. So it was pretty smooth. Okay. And yeah, what did you study in college?

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I studied mechanical engineering. And the reason I chose mechanical engineering was because I thought that was the basis of industry and will allow me to venture

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into a broad range of careers. I originally was very interested in studying math. But after getting into college, I decided that

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mechanical engineering was probably better for me. So I–I think I made the choice—the right choice, I benefited from that throughout my life.

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Plus, college life, besides studying, I joined a social club, which gave me the opportunity to make many friends and develop interest into many areas, and

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I benefit from that experience till this day. Yeah, and were you satisfied with your college experience? Or if there's anything you could change, what would it be? Yeah, I–I'm satisfied with it.

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I think I probably would do it again if I had to choose. Yeah, that's great. And what did you do after graduating from college? I went into military service, which is mandatory for us

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in Taiwan. All the boys had to go to military service. I went into a one-year service. For me, it was fortunate, because people after me, for a while, they had to do that for two years.

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I served as an aircraft maintenance officer with a rank of second lieutenant. That–that work was basically related to my mechanical

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engineering training. So it was helpful, and I–I learned a lot from it. It was a great experience. Yeah, and why exactly did you only have to serve one year instead of two? That was mandatory.

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My—before me, until my year, it was all one year. But then after me, the boys that were born after me, they have to serve two years, for a while, okay?

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The–the–the–the regulation changes, I don't know how many years later, they reduced it down to even less than one year. And now, I think it's only four months. So, it's just a matter of government regulation.

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I see. Interesting. And what was your typical like day-to-day schedule like in the military? Oh, again, I was very fortunate. Some people who were maybe

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serving in the army, they had to be a leader of a company, which is, like, 30 people, and they had to go out in the field and,

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you know, do a lot of exercises. I worked like a normal people working for a company. I started something like 7:30 until

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5pm, I, you know, work in the Air Force base. And then I would be able to get back to a rented house to have some free time. And so that was a

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very normal working environment. In fact, I—in the–in the airbase, I worked with a lot of aircraft, okay, we worked with the–the people

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in the military service. And that was fun. Yeah. And I guess like how did you get that maintenance position? Or was it by random?

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Did you have to like apply, [FC: Random.] or— Well, I didn't apply, but you—we–we kind of draw— [laughs] when we—this is all random. When-when we graduate from college,

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all of us go through a sort of lottery, okay. You put your hand in the hat and then you pull–pull your number out and say, "Oh, okay, you got Air Force and since you're a mechanical engineer, you go to

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aircraft maintenance." So–so it–it–it's purely luck. That's pretty cool. Yeah. And did you learn most of like the—your responsibilities while you were there?

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Or did you already have some experience and knowledge? Good question. You know, in the third year—when I said we–we pulled the lottery, I think we started in the summer of

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my–my—before the summer of my senior year, okay, in college. So this is right after third year. We chose—we got to think of what kind of service and what specialty we

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go into. And then we had a twelve-week specialty training. Like for me, being aircraft maintenance specialty, we were sent to a Air Force aircraft

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training school. They had a professional curriculum of four years, or three years formal training, but we spent 12 weeks. So those 12 weeks, it was a good opportunity to

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learn a lot about aircraft, from rotary engine to jet engine. All the systems, you know, like, hydraulic pressure, the control, all those things about aircraft. We–we went through that in those twelve weeks.

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Again, that was a great experience. Yeah, that's cool. And so, what did you do after you finished your service? Well, I applied to—while I

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was in service, I applied to colleges, quite a few, in the United States. So, I came to the United States right after I served in the military. Yeah, sorry. [FC: (unintelligible)] What school did you say?

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Oh, sorry. I went to West Virginia University, okay. It was graduate school. So that was when I was about 22 years old.

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Yeah. And what did you study in grad school? I did both aerospace engineering and mechanical engineering. So actually, I got my PhD in aerospace and a Master in mechanical engineering.

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Cool, yeah, and what were your biggest challenges adjusting to the US when you first immigrated? The language in the beginning, because, you know, even though in Taiwan we use English textbooks,

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we learn English from the first year in middle school. When we came over here, I had to overcome the actual speaking ability.

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Okay, so one of the things I did was I found an American roommate, I lived with him in a trailer. That was fun. So I had the chance to

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talk English with him all day and he–he had all kinds of friends, okay, they came to our trailer and we'd chat and we'd do all kinds of things. And I even went to his family—he–he is from a

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little town just south of where my university was. So I visited his parents. They had a nice farm, horses there. Then I was riding horses with them, and talked with their

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parents, learned a lot about, you know, the American life. West Virginia is, you know, a beautiful country, right? It's almost heaven. So, we-we traveled around, and

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I enjoyed talking with his parents, so I–I communicated with them even after I left West Virginia. Very cool. Yeah, and I guess—like when you first immigrated, was it—did you feel sad or anything

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when you left your family in Taiwan? I missed my family and I wrote letters to them every week, sometimes calling them. But it wasn't really hard.

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I had a good–good environment. Some real close friends at the school, both Chinese and American.

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So, I didn't really have any harsh time. Yeah, that's good to hear. And so, after you finished your grad school—or did you do Masters or PhD?

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I did both. Like I said, I got both PhD and Masters. I see, and so after you completed it, what did you do after that? Well, I did spend a little over a year working

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for the school as a post-doc, you know, as a research associate. Then I had an opportunity to come to Houston. Mainly because my father-in-law

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lived in Houston back then. He–he–he—came before, even—again, so you know, my wife was looking for a job in Houston, and that's how it all got started.

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Yeah, and what job was that? I started working with an engineering company. So, I was a mechanical engineer and did that for about 10 years

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and I switched over to a chemical company, called Dow Chemical. I worked there for another 10 years. Then I had the opportunity to go to Shell oil

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company. And there… and then I retired from Shell, did a little bit of consulting work. Joined another small chemical company until I really retired.

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Very cool, and how long did you—so how long did you work for your entire time? About 37 years. (unintelligible) Very cool, and how was like the engineering work—engineering

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industry in terms of demographics of Asian Americans back then? Oh, when I started, Asians were definitely the minority. There were very few of them. I see that change over the years. In the

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latter days, there are more—many more Asians in the–in the company, so it becomes more normal to have Asian colleagues Yeah, cool. And how about like the Houston community?

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How have you seen the Asian American population grow over the years? Oh, definitely. When I started over here back in the 70's, there were very few Asians. (unintelligible)

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But quite a few of them moving in throughout about two—year 2000. After that, it sort of dwindled Yeah, and so I know you are very involved in the Asian community.

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Do you mind speaking on some organizations that you were involved in? Oh, I try to spend my time after work to servre in the community.

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I started with the…American Chinese—oh, the Chinese American Professional Association. Then, I served in an organization, the

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Alumni Association of Chinese Colleges. I also served in an organization to promote the unity of Asian Americans. And then I also spent quite a number of years with the

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Chinese Community Center. So yeah, throughout the years I try to spend time to work in the community.

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Yeah, and so with the Association of Chinese American Professionals, what was your involvement with that? What were your responsibilities? I was with them for many years.

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I started as a member and then group leader and then became President. Even now, I'm still involved with the organization. And what's the—yeah, sorry.

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What's the overall mission of this organization? It was trying to promote the network of the professionals in Houston and

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in Taiwan. Because a lot of us [unintelligible] moved here. Especially in the early days—Taiwan needs help about the new technology.

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So they started to widen the new knowledge and wisdom. Meanwhile, in Houston, we have so many Chinese

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professionals. We did a seminar, we have an activity called SETs. It was Seminars for Engineering and Technology, for

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all these Chinese professionals. It covered all the different fields, from oil, petroleum industry, to mechanical engineering, computer science, and

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medical technology or science. We also covered financing, accounting, and we also tried to cover literature, okay.

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So, it was a pretty broad sense in networking all the professionals. Very cool, and what about the Joint Chinese College Alumni Association?

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Okay, that includes probably around 40 colleges from Taiwan. We wanted to cover more of the social life and activities (incoherent).

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We would have singing, painting, and exercising, so besides knowing each other and making friends with each other, we learn,

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you know, everyone thinks about keeping good health, right? Visiting nice places all over the world, okay. That organization is still doing really well,

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many, many activities a week, with–even now during pandemic, we do Zoom meetings regularly to do all those things that I mentioned. Yeah, that's cool. And then what about that CCC, Chinese Community Center,

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which is a huge center in Houston? What was your involvement? Yeah, I served as the Board Member for over 10 years, or

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12 years. Of course, the school—the Center has a school, one of their main functions, and that was during when I was

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a board member. One of the things that I started to promote was to build a new Senior Center, which includes a new building with all the facilities. There is now a center that’s been opened, serving

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elderly. We have a lot of activities. So, I mentioned the—talking about school, one of the things that the Joint Chinese College Alumni Association is

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still doing, and it's becoming bigger and bigger is the scholarships. So, every year we give out scholarships to high school and college students. And that is a very important function of the organization.

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Yeah, so what motivated you to start the Senior Center? We thought (unintelligible), and they would be more meaningful (?) to ourselves as we grow older.

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We–we–we started thinking about building something like a senior home, you know, just to live in there, that sort of thing. But that was pretty complicated when you talk about having to take care of old people.

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Besides the–the living space, you also need the medical technology. We thought it was too big a task. So we moved

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to a—sort of a activity center. So this is like a day-activity. People can go there and play ping pong, or something called pickleball,

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and learn painting, dancing. And they–they provide meals to seniors during the day and people play mahjong over there, that sort of thing, so that–that served the need

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for most of the seniors, but without having the center to devote way too much resources. Yeah, and where is the center located?

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The center's located near Chinatown on Town Park. It's near Harwin and Corporate, do you know where that is? Yeah, sort of a little bit Northwest of Chinatown.

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And how many, like, people can it hold? Oh, I would say for that senior center, about 100 people. But then the school can hold another

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100 students. And that–that—that's sort of a daycare, that school, from very little kids to junior—there are programs for junior kids. Cool. And so how did you, I guess, like start the senior center?

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How'd you get the funding for it and the support? Yeah, that's a good question. We—of course, we did fundraising. That was the—an important part of

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the effort, as Board Member. We look in the community. We looked at different nonprofit organizations.

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There are many of them. We tried to get some involved (incoherent). They came up for the, you know, fund for

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the–for the activity center. That's very cool. And is there any else that you would like to talk about in terms of your community involvement in Houston with like, maybe specifically the Asian community? The other organization that I mentioned was a organization

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that promotes the unity of Asian communities. I don't know if you have heard of it, it's called 80-20. The idea about 80-20 is to convince people to vote

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for the people that will benefit the Asians. Now, in the past, people randomly vote because of the double (?) interest, they chose candidates that may be opposing to each other.

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So, the result was 50% of the people vote for one candidate, the other 50% of the people will vote for the opponent, right? Now, the idea about 80-20 is to convince the people, the 50%—the first 50% of people to

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join the other 50% of people. But if we can achieve just 30% from that 50%, so you become 30% plus 50%, you got 80%, okay, to vote for this candidate and the rest of them is 20%.

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So, you–you have the power of majority, but the organization would provide the information, they will do survey, talking with the candidate, and get their support for the Asian community.

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We–we ask them to put in writing what you can do to help the Asian community. So, with that, we tell all the Asians, we

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recommend that you vote for a certain candidate. It makes a big difference. Especially nowadays, you know there are efforts from the government trying to scrutinize

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the Chinese, and there’s something called China Initiative that targets the Chinese professionals working in school or university environment, you might have heard of it.

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So, 80-20 tried to help the Chinese and even stand up against the government when they try to–try to focus on the

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Chinese professionals. So that's the kind of things we do. Yeah, and what were some candidates that you guys endorsed in the past? Well, for the city

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mayor…Well, for–for–for councilwoman, I—this goes back a little bit, like Martha Wong. I don't know if you heard of her.

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There's a state representative, I think his name is Voo. We–we–we endorsed him, this was against an incumbent, so

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it was quite significant. I can't think of many, because I am not so involved with the election nowadays. Yeah, that's fine.

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I guess, like, your involvement in–in these organizations have something to do with your own identity as an Asian American. So, can you maybe speak on, like, how have you been able to construct your identity, and whether that's your Asian American identity or Asian identity,

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or like just any other part of yourself? I've been living in the United States for more than 50 years and I am a US citizen. So, I love my home, my neighborhood, my community.

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I’m very accustomed to the environment that I have here. I'm an Asian, I'm a Chinese. With that, I of course try to speak for Asians and

00:44:16.820 - 00:44:38.980

pay attention to the interests of the Asians and I think we–we–we must do that in order to protect ourselves. Yeah, and I guess with the work that HAAA does, like, our archive does,

00:44:39.360 - 00:44:57.400

we really emphasize, like, the importance of family archiving. And I know you did a little bit of digging into your own family history. So, I wanted to kind of know how has understanding your family history kind of played a role in understanding your own identity and your own place

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right now, today? Since—like I said, I'm Chinese originally. Part of my background is

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from China. And that is sort of my–the root of my culture. So it–it really is an important part of

00:45:46.340 - 00:46:05.450

my background, and therefore I take care to talk about my family information. It's important for me to also discuss my family background.

00:46:05.550 - 00:46:23.840

Yeah, and I think we're going to bring in your daughter, Helen, and she's going to kind of ask a few questions about your own family. Well Daddy, it was really good to hear you share your story. And I know that our family life has always involved

00:46:24.330 - 00:46:41.880

our–our larger family. And, you know, I as–as your daughter, really benefited from the family values that you instilled in us and the reality that we–we grew up with our extended family around us, including

00:46:41.880 - 00:46:57.220

our grandparents and aunts and uncles, and–and so I really wanted the opportunity to–to be able to share about our broader family as well. And you–you know, we can start with how you–how

00:46:58.340 - 00:47:16.790

you mentioned that, you know, it's part of your identity, that a lot of our family history, and our—and the–the, I guess, the ties that you bring with you into this country have been a large influence in–in shaping who you've become.

00:47:18.770 - 00:47:38.350

So, I mean, I-I think, you know, in my memories, one of the biggest experiences was the time we spent at Popo's house. And I know that you have talked a lot about—or you have, you know, that there—I have my experiences as her granddaughter, but I would

00:47:38.370 - 00:47:57.990

love to kind of hear your perspective on–on Popo and Gonggong and that part of your life here. Yeah, as I said, the Chinese background is very important of

00:47:59.230 - 00:48:18.320

me. Especially with Popo and Gonggong, you know, they were a very important part of your childhood as you grew up.

00:48:18.960 - 00:48:42.820

You know, especially Popo, I want to talk about her first because her experience of coming to this country is probably more typical of most of the immigrants, who

00:48:42.820 - 00:49:03.200

had to look for things that they could do, and gradually find ways to build their life. You know, Popo came to Houston about the time that Mommy and I moved to Houston.

00:49:04.420 - 00:49:20.990

And that was because Gonggong had been in Houston for about three years before we did. And when Popo came over, Gonggong was doing a small business.

00:49:22.660 - 00:49:41.380

Tried to sell some—trades, handcrafts and souvenirs, carvings of the wood or marble, little jewelries, lapel decorations, and things

00:49:45.070 - 00:50:00.780

like that. And Popo realized that it was not going anywhere, so she started looking for a business that just generates a stable income. She picked Baskin Robbins

00:50:00.780 - 00:50:20.910

ice cream and acquired the store to become the first Chinese American to join the franchise. [HC: In Houston?] And she turned it into a success and opened the door for a few other Chinese Americans.

00:50:26.350 - 00:50:45.400

And, you know, Popo was very energetic, and had a big heart. In order to teach you and Deanna Chinese, she started

00:50:48.760 - 00:51:11.860

thinking about building a—starting a Chinese school that will benefit not just you and your cousins, but many other Chinese children. In the 80's, Houston was a desert

00:51:12.510 - 00:51:30.150

of Chinese culture. So partnering with the other parents, she started the–the first—one of one of the first Chinese schools with classes on weekends, this was around 1987.

00:51:31.900 - 00:51:49.180

So, I remember you and Deanna and your cousins all went to–went to that school, from kindergarten to 12th grade. Right. So, it was called ChangQing ZhongWen Xue Xiao.

00:51:49.210 - 00:52:08.380

It was called Evergreen Chinese School, yeah. So, in order to provide the teaching material, Popo edited a set of textbooks. And now I am going to try to share my screen with you

00:52:09.890 - 00:52:25.880

to show some of the pictures. [Shares screen] So you can see the screen now with the textbooks that Popo edited.

00:52:26.550 - 00:52:46.540

I just need to mention that these books were actually published after you left Evergreen Chinese School. It took her a number of years, something like ten years

00:52:49.090 - 00:53:07.210

to wrote and then publish these books The books—there were twelve volumes and plus each volume has a study text.

00:53:09.030 - 00:53:27.430

So you can see the total of them in the picture. Besides these textbooks, she also edited a book called "Learning Chinese by Telling Stories".

00:53:28.810 - 00:53:50.380

And another book was about the poems and chanting songs for the Chinese. So, these–these are all part of that set

00:53:50.630 - 00:54:09.940

of Chinese textbooks. And by the way, the Evergreen Chinese School was–started with the Welch Middle School and then Strake Jesuit, using their–their classrooms.

00:54:10.870 - 00:54:27.470

But in the 90's it was the largest, or at least one of the largest, Chinese schools. Yeah, yeah, we had a lot of good–good memories at ChangQing.

00:54:27.570 - 00:54:46.980

And I think one thing that's unique about the textbooks is that she–she was very intentional to include Pinyin and English, and Simplified and Traditional Chinese in all of those textbooks.

00:54:48.510 - 00:55:07.460

So she was really trying to bridge the different Chinese cultures here, and the way they learned, whether it was from Taiwan, whether it's Traditional, and there's some Bopomofo in the beginning, and then—but then all of the books have the Traditional and the Simplified and the Pinyin

00:55:09.680 - 00:55:28.320

from beginner all the way into, I think like, the Three Kingdoms and the Honglou Meng, and she has some–some overviews of that. And then this–this poetry book is also some of China's most famous poems that she converted into songs, some of them she converted into

00:55:28.320 - 00:55:42.590

songs, there's like a CD and everything. So yeah. And that's a good point, you know, she made a special effort to talk about both Bopomofo,

00:55:43.590 - 00:56:03.550

the Zhuyin Fuhao, to make it simple from Taiwan. And the Hanyu Pinyin, that's basically from mainland China. So that's a good resource, actually, to learn both Zhuyin

00:56:05.990 - 00:56:24.490

Fuhao and Hanyu Pinyin. Yeah, yeah, I think at the time, it was the only book, or the only set of textbooks that had all of those in, you know, in each–each book, and I'm not sure whether there are books since then that have

00:56:24.530 - 00:56:40.150

done that. But definitely at that time, because that didn't exist, and she knew from her tutoring and her teaching, I think she taught at Changqing for over 20 years, or 25 years or more. And she knew that that was a need in–in the Chinese

00:56:40.950 - 00:56:53.580

teaching industry. So–so she–she put in those years to put that—she wrote all these books, and she, you know, put these poems to song. She—and she went from beginner all the way to advanced.

00:56:54.070 - 00:57:07.820

And that also included her–her experience teaching at Berlitz. Right, she was a tutor. Yeah, yeah, she was tutor for Berlitz. So, she had the students that were adults, they

00:57:09.540 - 00:57:30.520

came to learn Chinese because of their need on the job; they need to go to China, they need to learn Chinese. So, I remember, there were days that the Americans, adults, that would went to her house, and then learned

00:57:30.520 - 00:57:47.960

Chinese from her. So, she had students in many different sectors in the Chinese—in the Houston area. Besides teaching at Evergreen

00:57:48.320 - 00:58:07.540

Chinese school, I learned recently that in 2003, she was invited–invited to teach the children and parents of an organization called the Family of Adopted Chinese—Children from China, or FCCC—FCC,

00:58:10.490 - 00:58:28.830

at Chinese Community Center. Okay, this helped in both the children and their parents, who didn't speak Chinese, you know, those adopted children came from China, but the parents were

00:58:28.830 - 00:58:44.150

mostly just Americans. They don't speak Chinese either. So she was able to teach both the children and the adults to advance their ability

00:58:45.620 - 00:59:00.990

and interest in learning Chinese. Yeah. And I think that became one of the first bilingual Chinese storytimes at the Houston Public Library. So they actually would meet at the Houston Public Library and it was the

00:59:01.090 - 00:59:14.110

first Chinese storytime in at the library, so they had the families there and–and from what I understand, she taught for–for a year, she taught those–those parents and kids for a year. Yeah.

00:59:14.930 - 00:59:34.720

That was at the Walter Branch of Houston Public Library. So that storytime program attracted many families from the Houston area, including, you know, Clear Lake and NASA.

00:59:35.870 - 00:59:53.180

Now, this story program continues till this day, at Walter library. It has expanded to Austin and many other cities in Texas. So that was a very good program.

00:59:53.880 - 01:00:10.450

Yeah, yeah, we thank Christie Chang for sharing that history. Christie Chang was part of Chinese Community Center and worked with Popo on that, on that initiative. I, you know, as we as we share about this, you know, you began by sharing how Popo was

01:00:10.450 - 01:00:29.510

an immigrant and she was the first, you know, she and Gonggong were the first Chinese American couple to–to begin the franchise, the Baskin Robbins franchise here in Houston. But I wonder if you could share a bit about Popo's background and education in, you know, before she came to the

01:00:29.510 - 01:00:45.600

States, you know, I—you know, how–how she had the background to–to write these textbooks and things like that. She was teaching Chinese even in Taiwan. [HC: Mm. And—] There, you know, was a program

01:00:48.350 - 01:01:04.790

I think at Tai Da and Shi Da, the Normal University of Taiwan. They—I think it's associated with Stanford University. They—she was teaching

01:01:08.390 - 01:01:27.650

foreigners, it was not just Americans, but non-Chinese. She was teaching Chinese to those people. So–so she had experience back in Taiwan before she came over to Houston, in teaching Chinese.

01:01:28.800 - 01:01:42.370

Yeah. And in China, do you remember what she studied when she was growing up in China? Chinese literature.

01:01:42.370 - 01:01:55.670

[HC: Chinese literature?] Yeah. And–and then she continued that after she moved to Taiwan. [HC: Mhm, mhm.

01:01:58.410 - 01:02:18.900

Yeah.] So, as you all grew up—because of her broad interest, she–she was trying to read many books, and

01:02:20.480 - 01:02:39.990

she would speak sometimes in the Chinese community about the books that she’s read, and her knowledge about the Chinese culture. She was a frequent

01:02:40.060 - 01:02:59.480

contributor and columnist for a couple of the local Chinese newspapers. And so, she wrote a book summarizing all her experiences in

01:03:02.180 - 01:03:21.750

coming to the new country. So this book is called "Living in the US for 25 Years." You see that on the screen? [HC: Mhm.] This

01:03:22.320 - 01:03:38.970

collection is some of the articles that she wrote in this book. It's been published for quite a while. I think it was probably 15-20 years now?

01:03:39.860 - 01:04:00.920

So, this might be a good object to be archived by HAAA, H-A-A-A. Do you remember what year she immigrated to the States? She came to Houston—you’re talking about when she came to

01:04:01.450 - 01:04:16.330

Houston? [HC: Uh huh.] '76. [HC: '76.] Yeah. So this book was probably published in around 2000 or so.

01:04:17.310 - 01:04:34.680

[HC: Mhm, mhm] So it's been a while. [HC: Yeah.] It's a very, very interesting book. Yeah, she–she was well known for writing stories, and I remember she used to write—she would work with you all—you and Mommy to write

01:04:36.610 - 01:04:53.160

the yanjiang, the speeches that we would do for yanjiang bisai, the speech contest at ChangQing. And then she—you mentioned the–the local Chinese papers, yeah, I remember it was Meinan–Meinan Xinwen and Shijie Ribao

01:04:53.160 - 01:05:10.540

right? That she would be like a regular contributor, like a columnist, almost, for those papers, almost like on a weekly basis sometimes. And then she also had—was on a radio show. Was it Zhongwen Diantai?

01:05:10.990 - 01:05:25.970

Yeah, I think it's Dezhou Zhongwen Diantai. [HC: Uh huh.] It's a–it’s a Chinese radio station. Do you know what she would share about? She talked about all kinds of things, you know.

01:05:28.630 - 01:05:49.820

Back then, she had a group of people that they gather and discuss Chinese classics. I remember she talked about Laozi , Zhuangzi, Confucius, Mencius, etc.

01:05:50.230 - 01:06:07.280

She–she had broad interests. So that–that group, sort of–sort of a forum, they meet regularly and they exchange their knowledges and thoughts about Chinese culture.

01:06:09.540 - 01:06:24.460

So, besides literature, she–she also liked to sing, remember? She joined the choir and she sang with her, you know, friends. Yeah, yeah.

01:06:24.460 - 01:06:40.700

And yeah, and I know that she has many, many friends who remember her today. They worked with her at the Chinese–the Chinese school and across the Chinese community, and they're really like–like, aunties to

01:06:40.700 - 01:06:56.430

me. And then I do—I, you know, I–I want to mention, what a great cook she was. I mean, we as her grandchildren still remember. You know, she used to make noodles and dumplings from

01:06:56.430 - 01:07:13.860

scratch, you know, including the–the dough, and she made scallion pancakes and banana pancakes. And she had these tofu meatballs, so it was, you know, meat with tofu, and she would always make, like, 50 of them, and they'd be gone within

01:07:14.030 - 01:07:27.310

a minute. And–and then she, you know, we–we had ice cream whenever we wanted to. And I just–it's funny because I used to think that having free ice cream as a kid was like a normal thing.

01:07:27.570 - 01:07:44.930

And I realized that we were just–we just—were very, very lucky as grandkids. And then I remember also the—that not only did she run the Baskin Robbins, but that she started a Morrow's Nut House, which was like a candy–candy and nut house at—I think it was—I

01:07:45.770 - 01:08:04.180

forgot which mall, but it was–it was, I think, Willowbrook Mall or something like that. And so she was running two businesses at the time and she would share about the, you know, working, you know, hiring, you know, teens and college kids to work at these shops and the stories out there.

01:08:04.180 - 01:08:22.090

But I remember one of her store—one of her, you know, I guess a standout experience was that George Bush Sr. came and visited the–the Baskin Robbins, and he stayed a while, and he actually gave her a presidential pin, which I have now,

01:08:22.090 - 01:08:36.340

which she gifted to me. And so that's really, yeah, a lot of really good stories. And she said that—I remember her sharing that she started ice cream because she wanted—she tried to think of something that made people happy,

01:08:36.820 - 01:08:49.040

you know, what kind of business would make people happy. And so, she said that–that was ice cream. And I remember she loved ice cream, also. I think she had, you know, one scoop pretty much every day.

01:08:49.970 - 01:09:07.520

And–and then she also shared that no matter how cold it was, there was always a customer who would come in at the—you know, at least one customer a day, no matter how—what the weather was, like, somebody would come in, so I think she had a lot of really, really good experiences and–and

01:09:09.270 - 01:09:22.250

we—yeah, she taught us how to, like, count money. I remember, as grandkids, she taught—we would be at the register and she taught us a little bit of what it meant to run–run the business. So, had a really, really good time.

01:09:23.940 - 01:09:40.450

She really had a lot of hands-on experience in trying to make a living, you know, as a new immigrant, like I said. You know, she, of course, never had the–the ice cream

01:09:41.050 - 01:09:57.860

business before she came to Houston, and remember —she made those cakes, you know, by learning all by herself. The cakes were a really important part of the business.

01:09:58.520 - 01:10:15.240

Yeah, the ice cream cakes. Yeah. [FC: Yeah.] Yeah, yeah. I know that you have more to share about–about some of the work that she did. So there were—so

01:10:16.530 - 01:10:33.680

after—yeah, I mean I wonder if there's–there's more here that you–you have on her–her legacy that you wanted to share. Well, you know, she, of course, influences a lot with her

01:10:34.660 - 01:10:54.290

diligence and her wide, various capab-capabilities. But besides herself, let me talk a little about Gonggong, because

01:10:58.160 - 01:11:22.770

Gonggong's family, actually his ancestor, include some very famous Chinese scholars and officials. So, he brought all that legacy with him to Houston.

01:11:24.390 - 01:11:46.730

And this included many books that he brought over. So, after Gonggong passed away, Popo decided to donate most of those books, you

01:11:48.470 - 01:12:06.110

know, about 1500 volumes, to the Fondren Library of Rice University. And I was able to get a picture of—this is sort of the cover sheet of

01:12:07.940 - 01:12:26.940

one of the books, This-this is the Jin Ping Mei, or Gold Plum, the stories of Gold Plum Vase.

01:12:32.470 - 01:12:53.420

So, Gold Vase Plum, this is in the Fondren Library. Besides Rice University, she also donated about 500 other books to the Taipei Economic and Cultural

01:12:55.550 - 01:13:17.880

Offices. Now one of the Gonggong's the ancestor was called Liu Tongxun. He was a prime minister of Emperor

01:13:18.030 - 01:13:36.280

Qianlong of Qing dynasty. His writings, which you can see here, was donated to the Imperial Palace Museum in China.

01:13:39.960 - 01:13:54.580

So, those-are considered as the treasures in the-in the museum now. That's in the National Palace Museum in Taiwan?

01:13:55.070 - 01:14:16.400

In Beijing. [HC: In Beijing?] This is in Beijing, okay. [HC: Mhm.] Thanks to her foresight, these books (incoherent). They escaped from the flood in Harvey, 11 years

01:14:16.700 - 01:14:39.420

later. [HC: Mhm.] Now integrated with Gonggong, or the Tsang family, is that there is a history of a few very famous scholars and

01:14:39.510 - 01:14:59.540

officials in China. Gonggong's mother, her last name is Liu, and her name is called Liu Juquan. She was a pioneering woman of her generation.

01:15:01.540 - 01:15:23.200

In the 1920s she participated in the northern expedition, or Beifa, led by Chiang Kai Shek and was once imprisoned by a warlord. After released, she went to Waseda University

01:15:24.870 - 01:15:44.040

of Japan to study Economics. Returning to China, she continued to work with the National Party, Nationalist Party, the Guomingdang, and was elected to be a member of the Control

01:15:46.080 - 01:16:03.470

Yuan, which is a branch of Congress. It's called Jiancha Yuan in Chinese. So–so she–she served as a—that—Congress member,

01:16:04.480 - 01:16:21.520

until her death. Now, another— That was around 1945, right? Yeah, she came to Taiwan about 1949, [HC: Okay.] later than my family did.

01:16:23.610 - 01:16:40.460

She served as the Jiancha Yuan, Control Yuan Congress member through 1972. [HC: Mhm, mhm.] So those were the years that she was in Taiwan then.

01:16:43.630 - 01:16:59.400

Mhm, and there's a story in there also that she–she was arrested? Yes, arrest-arrested by, like, a warlord from northeastern part of China called Zhang Zuolin.

01:17:01.170 - 01:17:20.590

But fortunately, she was able to get released through some help, so that's how she was able to survive, yeah. Many of her comrades back

01:17:20.590 - 01:17:40.360

then were killed during that period of time. So, she had a very different, courageous life of her, you know, people

01:17:41.290 - 01:18:04.300

of her generation. [HC: Yeah.] Besides Liu Tongxun, who is a famous Prime Minister, as I said—or General, there's also another ancestor who

01:18:04.590 - 01:18:23.900

also served as a prime minister, his name is Liu Yong. Liu Yong is probably even more famous than his dad, Liu Tongxun, because he was able to judge some cases

01:18:25.720 - 01:18:43.300

and benefit the people. And his calligraphy is also very famous. I'll show you some of his calligraphies here. [Shows slide.] This–this is one of the calligraphy that we

01:18:43.300 - 01:18:57.760

got from–from Mommy. And I think you have one on your wall there. Oh, right here, behind me, yeah. Another one, yeah, okay, okay.

01:18:58.640 - 01:19:17.280

That's–that's–that's another one, that's another calligraphy. Liu Yong was famous because of his–his work and also his calligraphy. Now, besides—because–because he has

01:19:17.700 - 01:19:37.060

some real interesting anecdotes throughout his life, many popular TV series were made with his anecdotes through his life. So, Liu Yong is another famous ancestor.

01:19:37.930 - 01:19:53.880

Well, before—and before you go on, could you share a little bit of his father, Liu Tongxun's work as prime minister with Qianlong? Yeah, he–he is famous for

01:19:54.280 - 01:20:16.700

his ability to solve the flooding problem in China. As you know, China had flooding, just like we do now. There–there—there's the Yellow River in the northern part of China, and it–it–it

01:20:16.700 - 01:20:31.250

flooded almost every year. And he was able to make a significant contribution in solving the flooding problem, yeah.

01:20:31.810 - 01:20:54.740

Mhm, do you remember what years he—approximately that he was prime minister? He was probably in 1700. No, yeah, 17, 18—yeah, about

01:20:56.960 - 01:21:11.390

1800. Mhm. Mhm. Do you know—and then for his son, do you know some of those stories that were—would be in–in those TV series?

01:21:11.390 - 01:21:31.690

Either the TV series' names or the stories? One of them I remember is called Liu Luo Guozi [HC: Liu Luo Guo—] Liu Luo Guozi, then that's because somehow the story about him was that

01:21:32.120 - 01:21:46.170

he had a hunchback. Luo Guozi means "hunchback." [laughs] This—that TV series is about Liu Luo Guozi.

01:21:46.950 - 01:22:04.610

Mhm, okay. I just wanted to capture some of that. So, besides the Liu family, you know, of course, Gonggong's last name is Tsang.

01:22:07.590 - 01:22:23.590

His father, called Tsang Fujiu was also a very accomplished poet and calligrapher. I want to show you this calligraphy of Gonggong's father, called Tsang Fujiu.

01:22:25.330 - 01:22:46.400

This is the—his handwriting and note of a famous collection of poems in Tang Dynasty, tang shi san bai shou. I like his calligraphy very, very much because

01:22:48.090 - 01:23:07.960

it shows a lot of skills that he has for the calligraphy. The detail of every stroke – turning, and

01:23:13.340 - 01:23:34.400

just his ability to show that art so freely. I think his–his ability is better than many of the other famous

01:23:35.700 - 01:23:54.530

calligraphers that I heard of. So that's why I wanted to show this page of his calligraphy, hopefully as a (incoherent)—to his

01:23:55.540 - 01:24:14.880

art. I have another book that he wrote with his poems, and I wish I could translate that and maybe try to publish it later. [HC: Mhm, mhm.] Now,

01:24:16.790 - 01:24:32.400

Tsang Fujiu’s father is also a distinguished official in the late Qing dynasty. His name was Tsang Jichen. Tsang Jichen.

01:24:32.990 - 01:24:55.080

Tsang Jichen. Okay. So I think Mommy's family has quite a bit of Chinese legacy that, fortunately, was

01:24:56.960 - 01:25:14.840

possible to immigrate with Gonggong and Popo's life here in Houston. Mhm, mhm. Did–did Mommy ever share her thoughts on, you

01:25:16.050 - 01:25:31.750

know, what this–this ancestry or this–this—these legacies had on her? She—at first, all that background, she

01:25:36.140 - 01:26:02.560

sometimes would discuss with me about, you know, her grandma, Gonggong’s mother-Liu Juquan, so we were looking at the many

01:26:06.770 - 01:26:29.330

things done. Yeah, we–we shared a lot of stories about them coming. Mhm, that's great.

01:26:29.330 - 01:26:44.650

Did you— [FC: Oh—] go ahead. That's–that's about all I have. I don't know

01:26:44.950 - 01:26:54.880

if you have any other— I have a few more questions. [HC: Yeah, okay.] If you don't—is—are–are there more photos that you wanted to share beyond these?

01:26:54.970 - 01:27:10.150

No, I actually can get out of the screen sharing now, with you. Yeah, no, I know the–the legacy of the calligraphy, I–I wanted—I don't know if you wanted to share more about that, but I remember that you also

01:27:10.150 - 01:27:25.770

mentioned that Gonggong's grandfather, like his exam paper was like so immaculate in–in the calligraphy. Yes, where would we able to get a copy of his exam

01:27:26.740 - 01:27:46.730

paper? [laughs] I didn't get a picture of it, but it was immaculate. It's different from the last one that I showed about Gonggong’s father’s calligraphy. Because when you took those exams,

01:27:48.840 - 01:28:08.430

your handwriting has to be perfect. [HC: Mhm.] That's what we call "zhengkai." It's not like—what is the “tang shi sabai shou”, what we call "xingshu."

01:28:11.930 - 01:28:31.920

Handwriting when you took the exam, you can't do things like “xingshu” or you know, you have to be perfect. Yeah, you didn't have like white-out back then, you couldn't–couldn't erase.

01:28:32.930 - 01:28:50.890

And you had to do that in the time that you have. You–you have to write a nice essay according to all kind of rules. First, your handwriting has to be perfect.

01:28:50.890 - 01:29:11.830

So that's how you can–you can pass the—those exams and become sort of a winner, something called "Jinshii," [HC: Jinshii.] Yeah, it’s a some ranking that you get after you pass.

01:29:12.400 - 01:29:29.730

So many people—you know, only 1% or 2% of people that can get into that rank. Mhm, mhm, so yeah, Mommy's family had–had many generations of those officials, right?

01:29:30.570 - 01:29:49.280

But I—so I also wanted to ask about the Chou side of the family, your–your family. And I wondered if, you know, you could share a little bit about the–the records that we have, from the

01:29:49.520 - 01:30:03.800

Chou side, the family history books and–and the records that we have. Yeah. Yeye passed down to me our family book. Can you describe what the family book is?

01:30:05.100 - 01:30:25.990

This book was a collection of, first of all, the history, and then in the later generations—I guess it started about 10

01:30:25.990 - 01:30:49.230

generations before me, you know, talking about when someone was born, what are their names, how long did they live, what did they do, that sort of thing.

01:30:49.230 - 01:31:07.440

So, I was able to know that my family originally, really originally, came from northern part of China, called Henan. This was close to, I guess to Beijing, or it's around

01:31:07.750 - 01:31:31.060

the Yellow River. So, then we moved from Henan to Zhejiang, in a town called Shaoxing. [HC: Shaoxing] Shaoxing. The family books cover the stories

01:31:34.670 - 01:31:51.310

about Shaoxing family, Chou family in Shaoxing. And there—an interesting part was, you know, Shaoxing was famous for having a lot of “shiye”,

01:31:51.850 - 01:32:15.140

which is sort of a different, unique profession. Shiyes are generally consultants to the leaders of mostly government, okay.

01:32:16.840 - 01:32:37.590

They're good at coming up with strategies and writings and doing communication for the leaders of the government. Lead–can you—sorry, say that again?

01:32:37.590 - 01:32:51.770

They were good at— Leaders–leaders of the government. They were consultants to the government. So,

01:32:51.950 - 01:33:11.930

for many generations, actually, Shaoxing produced many Shiyes. You know, one of the famous writer called Lu Xun [HC: Lu

01:33:11.930 - 01:33:26.490

Xun.], he's also from Shaoxing. His–his family, there were many Shiyes, also. His father was a like a Shiye too. So, we had–we had several Shiye.

01:33:26.540 - 01:33:40.820

Your–your father's family had some. My–my grandfather, he was working for the government, his position is sort of like a Shiye.

01:33:41.690 - 01:33:55.790

His father was also a shiye. And the–the family history also traces back to the Zhou dynasty, right? So you were aware of which branch of—or

01:33:57.240 - 01:34:15.670

what–what the specific origin in the Zhou dynasty, can you share a little about that? Zhou is—you know, of course, the name of that dynasty, Zhou, probably the

01:34:15.850 - 01:34:32.680

largest branch of many, many local governments back then. From Zhou Gong, – we are

01:34:34.250 - 01:34:56.220

all descendants of Zhou Gong. Okay, and—okay. Zhou Gong, who is one of the famous prime ministers under–under like the–the founder of the Zhou dynasty, Zhou Wen

01:34:56.500 - 01:35:09.660

Wang? Yeah, Zhou Wen Wang, Zhou Wu Wang, yeah, yeah. Mhm, yeah, no I—the—so, the–the Chi—this book that we have, this family history book, kind

01:35:09.660 - 01:35:23.760

of documents all of that? Not in great detail, [HC: (unintelligible).] yeah, but it talks about the–the origin.

01:35:25.050 - 01:35:43.350

Mhm, because the Chou Dynasty was—it was almost 3000 years ago, is that right? It lasted for about 800 years. It was one of the long-longest dynasties

01:35:43.990 - 01:35:58.930

in history. Mhm, and then the other part of this–this history book is it also has–has the list of the names for each generation, right? Can you share about that?

01:35:58.930 - 01:36:24.650

Yeah. It recorded the names of each generation, and one of the ancestors—a system of names so we have to use certain characters to show the

01:36:26.950 - 01:36:38.020

generation, okay? And you remember that, right? What–what—do you remember the order? Like around my generation, in total, there were

01:36:38.120 - 01:36:54.640

24 characters, okay? Around my generation are Shi Tai Ding Fu Yi Lin...These are all characters from a book called "Yijing" , okay, the so called “Book of Changes”.

01:36:56.030 - 01:37:14.870

Like, my generation should use “Tai”, which is considered a very important part of the Bagua, okay? And in your generation, it becomes “Ding”. After “Tai”, it’s “Ding”.

01:37:14.870 - 01:37:35.030

. My father’s is called “Shi”. So Shi Tai Ding Fu, so your children would be Fu, and then before that, it was Jian Qian Lu Da Xun Tong, okay?

01:37:35.740 - 01:37:56.560

So those are another six. Shi Tai Ding Fu Yi Lin and so forth. So we are supposed to use those characters in our name. Mhm, okay.

01:37:57.240 - 01:38:15.710

And I always thought that was very special that we had that–that book, and–and–and just the different books, both across Mommy's family and your family, that we–we can have record of that history, and–and that, you know, our–our descendants for generations to come, like

01:38:16.040 - 01:38:35.380

the—that the names of the middle characters have already been–been chosen and–and planned for the generations to come. Yeah. I wondered if you–you wanted to share any more about—well, I–I

01:38:37.790 - 01:38:57.930

think it's–it's very significant, the–the moves that have happened over the last two generations, for many Chinese families, but in–in our family, you know, moving from China to Taiwan, and then for you and Mommy, to move

01:38:58.460 - 01:39:16.780

to the States and also bring the entire family, right? So, you know, I–I grew up with my grandparents here. And I–I—you know, as I grew older, I recognize that that's not always possible for immigrant families to bring,

01:39:17.700 - 01:39:35.880

you know, the families together in another country. But I just wonder what–what it means to you, you know, these–these different moves over the last two generations, and particularly, you know, being in the states, moving pretty much, you know, the–the majority of

01:39:36.110 - 01:39:54.390

the family here to the States, what it might mean to you. I think it's a natural part of human history, you know, people move over the years.

01:39:55.200 - 01:40:15.660

It's like within—even within China, people move from north to south. And now in the last two generations, a lot of people move from Asia to the United States, and not only Asia, but all over the world.

01:40:16.040 - 01:40:37.080

It's a natural thing for the human population to move around, but as a result of this, I think we all benefited from having

01:40:37.870 - 01:41:00.120

the different cultures together. From that, we all can learn from each other, the strengths, the good ingredients of each culture, and

01:41:00.120 - 01:41:17.640

make a better world to the life, for improved human life. Mhm, yeah, so–so when, when you and Mommy came in—for graduate school, both of you brought

01:41:19.000 - 01:41:37.580

your parents, so Yeye, Nainai, Gonggong, Popo. And they brought all of the children with them, you know, basically—at different times, but on both sides of your families, you have four children that all ended up in the United States and now have

01:41:37.660 - 01:41:55.280

raised families here in the United States. And then you've brought cousins, and—your cousins and–and even Popo, Gonggong, all of them, they brought brothers and sisters as well. So there's–there's many, many branches and many, many

01:41:55.320 - 01:42:12.500

new—yeah, many new branches that have rooted here in the States to bring that–that history here. So I think—so there's–there's a lot—some of those, just so HAAA knows, [laughs] there's a lot of those families here in Houston that–that have–have

01:42:13.300 - 01:42:33.090

similar stories, but, you know, in listening to your interview earlier, I wondered if you wanted to share a little bit more about raising family here in the States, you know, how old were you when you started your family, and what was that experience like,

01:42:35.170 - 01:42:48.650

starting a family and raising them here in the States? Actually, it was a very fun part of my life.

01:42:51.250 - 01:43:13.530

Overall, I think it's–it's good–it's done. Now—more than like my parents when they were raising me, they–they didn't have much resources. They really tried to

01:43:15.950 - 01:43:36.420

work hard in order to–to raise us. Like I said, we never suffered from either hunger or cold. Well, over here, I'm glad that we were able to

01:43:38.900 - 01:43:59.330

do lots of things. Not only just immediately live, and you know, basic needs, but we were able to travel, we

01:44:01.770 - 01:44:22.560

were able to have best schools, have good education, so I think I'm very fortunate to be able to do that. I have to thank God for

01:44:26.580 - 01:44:41.230

that. Yeah–yeah–yeah, I—you know, I am still amazed by just the number of experiences that Deanna and I had, and that you and Mommy, you know, intentionally provided

01:44:42.000 - 01:44:58.070

for and planned. You know, everything from the education, the best education, to music lessons and sports all the time, and, you know, ballet and tap and, you know, all sorts of activities.

01:44:59.230 - 01:45:15.500

Soccer and all sorts of things. So–so I know that yeah, I mean, when–when you think of just broader history, and the changes that China and Taiwan were going through when, you know, our—when

01:45:16.790 - 01:45:32.940

Yeye, Nainai, Gonggong, Popo were raising their families, you know, the—it was right during the Communist Revolution, and then they ended up in Taiwan, and then Taiwan, you know, in those—that time was–was very hard on the region.

01:45:32.940 - 01:45:53.440

I remember Aunt Julia used to share that Popo used to take care of some Vietnamese refugees in Taiwan on top of raising, you know, a large family in Taiwan, and then–and then yeah, this—just how significant it is for you all to–to bring the

01:45:53.440 - 01:46:13.030

families here to–to the States and then really make a beautiful life for–for your whole family. So I feel very fortunate to be part of that, and I'm really happy that we–we can we can talk

01:46:13.270 - 01:46:31.600

about it here and–and I really hope that, you know, we'll continue to share these stories with each other and with–with our families and our friends, because I think there's just a lot, there's a lot more that we can share. So we thank HAAA for this time.

01:46:33.130 - 01:46:51.910

Yeah, I think HAAA really is a very good project for us immigrants to share what our experience has done, and we are able to document all these experiences.

01:46:52.780 - 01:47:05.920

I think it’s going to be very, very helpful. Yeah, thank you so much. It was a great discussion. It was very interesting to hear about, like all the family history in Houston that even

01:47:06.000 - 01:47:18.300

I, growing up in Houston, have never heard of, but—like kind of interacted indirectly, but never knew it was from, like, your family exactly. So that was really cool to learn about. Yeah, thank you so much, and once again.