00:00:09.819 - 00:00:27.399

My name is Nori Guthrie from the Woodson Research Center, Font Library at Rice University. I am interviewing Eric Taylor. Today is August 30th 2018. This is part of the Houston Folk Music Archive, oral History project. Can you tell me about your early life, my early life,

00:00:28.090 - 00:00:49.970

how early it is up to you? How, how far you want to go? Well, I wasn't born in Texas. Uh I was born in Atlanta, Georgia at Emory University Charity Hospital. Uh, when I was two or three days old, we moved across the street to, uh

00:00:49.979 - 00:01:30.000

the government housing projects. Uh, very poor. Um, my father was here and there. Uh, he was, he considered himself footless and fancy free. I, I considered him a sort of a useless junkie. But, um, um, uh I got interested in playing guitar when I was about

00:01:30.010 - 00:02:00.519

12 years old and, uh, I played mostly R and B music with some friends of mine. We would have, we would start little bands and break them up and start another one. And, and, uh, the first band that I was in was the Nomads. Yes. And

00:02:00.529 - 00:02:18.050

none of us were old enough to drive. So Alan Jo and would take us to shows and, and when she could stand it, she would come inside, but mostly she would sit in the car and wait for us to be three and drive us all back

00:02:18.059 - 00:02:51.559

home. Um, wonderful, wonderful. Might be. Um, so I got very involved in, in, in R and B music and, uh, lived in a small town, a very small town and, um, a lot of my friends were black, which didn't make it over very well. Yeah, I

00:02:51.570 - 00:03:28.399

started writing my own music um, or wanting to write my own music. So I bought an acoustic guitar and uh it was, um it was uh what, what Dave Van Ronk would call for many years, the great folk scare of the sixties. And he took a

00:03:28.410 - 00:04:00.729

friend of mine, Bobby took me to this folk festival. I had no idea what to expect. And I wanted to get into a guitar workshop, learn finger style guitar and um all the guitar workshops because it was the great folk scare of the sixties, Miss Dave.

00:04:01.940 - 00:04:22.720

But um I couldn't get in. They were so filled we couldn't get in. So we walked on down the line a little bit and I heard this guy playing banjo and he was doing a double thumm technique on banjo, not frail. And, and his name was

00:04:22.730 - 00:04:50.730

John Hartford. Johnny Hartford. I'd never heard of him, of course, but he was coming up to the line very, very quickly. He ended up, he ended up, Johnny, ended up, uh, having his own television show and doing very well. Uh, we were friends can remain friends

00:04:50.739 - 00:05:25.239

up until his death. As a matter of fact, I helped work on a production of his son's record, Jamie. Um, uh, so, you know, the circle kind of went around, you know, and, uh, and we became friends and I've always thought how interesting it is, you

00:05:25.250 - 00:06:10.440

know, what music will do and bring people together like that. Um Yeah, so I started playing around Atlanta when I was very young, very young, 15, maybe even younger. And, um, uh, she only got, you only got to play two songs. Um And, uh, and one

00:06:10.450 - 00:06:38.329

night I played, I made the big mistake at one folk club up there. We weren't getting paid anything glass of wine and a cheese plate or something like that. But, um, he said, no, you can only play two songs, two songs. So the next weekend over

00:06:38.339 - 00:07:04.329

the next week I went up into the open mic there. And, uh, I, I played just like Tom's Blues by Bob Dylan, which is quite a long song and, um, in Desolation Row, which is even longer. Yeah. And so let's say that I, I wasn't invited

00:07:04.339 - 00:07:26.739

back to my, but, uh, but I got more and more interested in writing my own stuff and started picking up shows now and then, um, back in the early days of that kind of music. I mean, you would play three or four places a night because

00:07:26.750 - 00:07:53.429

the sets would be so short and there was people waiting outside to play and uh Houston had had a fairly fertile folk folk scene going on there. Uh So I became a little bit more involved with that 12th Gate Coffee House, the bistro, all those places

00:07:53.440 - 00:08:24.380

on 16th 16th Street. Um who many people went, went for the, for, for the music and many people went for the drugs that were, were being sold on the street. Um, anyway, I became more and more involved in that. And, uh, really what I wanted to

00:08:24.390 - 00:08:57.169

do was go to California. And, uh, so I hitched a ride with some people who had a, a van full of chairs that they were taken to Houston and, uh, and hitched a ride to Houston. And I, I wanted, I was interested in acting a lot,

00:08:57.590 - 00:09:22.409

uh, enrolled myself in an acting class in Los Angeles for a while. And, uh, and the guy said to me, he says, uh, you'll never be able to do it, you'll never pull it off. You know, it sort of hurt my feelings at first and then

00:09:22.419 - 00:09:51.909

he kept saying it and saying it and saying that and finally I stopped and I said, what do you keep saying that to me? And he says, well, you're gonna start off doing afternoon shows, matinees no name plays. Uh, and acting is about hitting your spot

00:09:51.919 - 00:10:16.659

and, and saying lines by people that you don't like the writing and you're being directed by someone that you don't like, that's making you say something you don't really want to say. And, uh, I've gotten to know you well enough to know that. Ok, you never,

00:10:17.549 - 00:10:52.630

you'll never do that. And, uh, and there was a voice behind me and it was Dave Van Ronk choice and he says he's right, you know, and beside him was an actor named Sterling Hayden played in a lot of prison breakout movies, that kind of thing,

00:10:52.979 - 00:11:31.929

sort of became typecast. Uh And we became fast friends and he lived in Sausalito, California, um which I found very interesting because, um, yeah, under the bridge, under the bridge there in California, there were three bars, uh, one called Joe's Bar and then another one right

00:11:31.940 - 00:11:57.559

next to it called Joe's Bar. And then the third bar at the end of the road was a bar, uh called the No name Bar. And uh and Sorting and I hung out at the no name probably more than we should at my early tender age.

00:12:01.590 - 00:12:29.539

Anyway, I'm not with Sterling for a while. Uh I even went to Haiti with him once, um, really pretty much figured out I wasn't going to become the actor that I wanted to be and, and I ended up coming back to Houston and uh Houston was

00:12:29.549 - 00:13:00.940

such a fertile seen for writers at the time. Uh Somebody mentioned Mickey Newberry, earlier, Mickey was living in Nashville but still spent a lot of time in Houston. Uh Guy Charles Clark was living in Rockport. He moved to Houston because Mickey Newberry was here. Um Towns

00:13:00.950 - 00:13:27.320

Van Sant moved to Houston because God Charles Clark was here and one thing sort of just led to another and, and many of us ended up staying here because those people were around. And uh and I was fascinated by, fascinated by the fact that I could,

00:13:28.150 - 00:13:50.929

I could go hear Frank Davis play daddy banjo one night. And then I could go hear Big Mama Thornton sing Hound Dog the next night. And I could see Lightnin Hopkins any night of the week that I wanted to, um not one thing kind of led

00:13:50.940 - 00:14:16.359

to another. And I started making a reputation as a songwriter across Texas and then across the world. So, uh this is the first time in 22 years that I haven't been to Europe at this time of the year, 22 years in a row. And then there's

00:14:16.369 - 00:14:44.590

this, by this time, my health is I need you to take some time off. And, uh and I see now that it's probably a good idea. Um I'm not stopping, I'm not giving up on anything but I needed, I needed a break from it and uh

00:14:47.789 - 00:15:11.700

I just felt like things were running together so much and then I'm sort of ended up, ended up here. I mean, we're still, we're still touring but not as much next year. We will back out, be touring a lot more. Hello. Um, so that sort of

00:15:11.710 - 00:15:37.969

brings us around to my early age that I am now. Well, let's explore some more from the past. Um, so you said that you, you kind of stopped in Houston and you went to California when you came back to Houston? About what year was that? Early

00:15:37.979 - 00:16:03.650

70 early 70? Ok. Um, could you go into a little bit more detail about what the folk scene was like in 1970? It was wide open. That was the great thing about it. Writers. Houston's Writers Town. Oh, awesome. Is sort of a party town for musicians

00:16:03.659 - 00:16:34.799

in Houston. I must say. We, we, we took it very seriously. People like me, Vince Bell George, uh, instantly, uh, certain other people, Nancy, uh, who ended up marrying later on, but she was taking music very seriously. And, uh, and I was too and we were

00:16:34.809 - 00:17:08.270

all trying to do, I mean, by saying, taking it seriously, we talked to each other about what we were writing about and what we've heard lately. Uh, is that what's interesting is, and, um, excuse me, uh, and we were just very, very serious about, about what

00:17:08.280 - 00:17:37.680

we were doing. We weren't willing just to sit down and write some, you know, for gigs. Um, we tried to write serious and incentive material. I mean, we were also living in close vicinity of Guy Clark and Towns and Mickey Newberry and those people who took

00:17:37.689 - 00:18:01.140

it fairly seriously, I guess, uh, I, I don't know whether towns have tickets, I think he did. But, uh, it was just a very fertile town. It wasn't, here's the thing about it. It wasn't split down the middle. In other words, the same people that played

00:18:01.150 - 00:18:23.949

the, the blues clubs, what would be called blues clubs today? Only blues clubs, uh, also played folk clubs. I mean, you know, I, I played the same place that Lightnin Hopkins played on on many times. Uh, uh, the other thing that changed me a lot was

00:18:23.959 - 00:18:45.989

my association with the family and restaurant, Mike Con uh being a producer. Uh, and then Liberty Hall later was quite an influential part of my life because I got to meet so many different kind of people. Can you talk a little bit more about the family

00:18:46.000 - 00:19:26.000

hands the family had, was, um, a hippie restaurant in, in the full sense of the word. Um, hippies could allow, could afford to eat there and, and when they couldn't, we'd figure out a way for them too. Have a meal. Um, it was just a very

00:19:26.010 - 00:19:51.880

special place. It was a, a very inviting place to the outsiders and most of us that helped run the place were all outsiders. I mean, Bob coming from Atlanta, I mean uh from Alaska, me coming from Atlanta, Bob Ridge coming from some other place and now

00:19:51.890 - 00:20:14.989

lives in Hong Kong. But uh it it was um it was also very focused in music. And before Mike owned the family, Hen Mike and Linda owned the family Hen with George Banks. Uh he owned a place called Jubilee Hall who brought John Mayall here for

00:20:15.000 - 00:20:38.599

the first time. Now John Mayall, this was an old church. Um, the same place that John Mayo played a lot of, a lot of us folk singers would fill in the gaps there and play there. So it wasn't a place. Houston at that time certainly wasn't

00:20:38.609 - 00:21:03.510

a place that was uh that it had to be a certain way to play that you had to play a certain kind of music to play there. If you're any good you play there. Um, in other words, there were several clubs, several clubs that uh if

00:21:04.089 - 00:21:21.420

you want a lot, you were only allowed to play your own music. It had to be your own music. And, you know, and we were all walking around thinking, wow, that's really cool, man. You know, I mean, wow, you can't do any covers here. They won't

00:21:21.430 - 00:21:38.969

let you play any covers. That's cool, man. They're really supporting the writer. And then later on we found out that we were being made to play our own music. So they didn't have to pay as a and BM. I, what, what they owed them, uh, because

00:21:38.979 - 00:22:02.109

my service were not hooked up with anybody yet. Um, but we thought, we, we just thought it was really wonderful that, you know, you had to play your own music in order to play there. You didn't go in and play there. Um, everybody that got close

00:22:02.119 - 00:22:25.569

to the family hand there was some sort of spiritual reason. I think that that happened. I mean, I don't wanna sound too schmaltzy here, but I think there was a reason why uh they must have been some kind of reason why we all came together. There's

00:22:25.579 - 00:22:52.069

a group photo of us all together and you can just see it in our eyes. I mean, really, it's like somebody beamed us down to this place, you know, the same thing with Liberty Hall. Uh I learned more from Liberty Hall than I could have learned

00:22:52.079 - 00:23:25.650

at any college about musicians and music and, and setting up and introducing and, you know, everybody from Freddie King, John Lee Hooker, of course, lightening and Big Mama. Um to um a guy who became a friend of mine later on much later on was Lord George

00:23:25.660 - 00:23:48.589

from little feet. Uh One of my favorite bands and, and uh they used to rehearse in the afternoon if they were coming into town to play a bigger place. Uh We would clear out all the tables in the afternoon and, and they would rehearse there at

00:23:48.599 - 00:24:19.699

the family hand and, uh, and listen, one day I was cleaning up and I was sleeping up for the break in the afternoon where he opened back up at night. And this little guy comes in white pair of overalls on, you know, and he says it's

00:24:19.709 - 00:24:39.709

just a place where Lightnin Hopkins plays and, uh, and then he, there was some expletives, I'm sure they probably weren't banking on, right. But I said, yeah, sure. Are you? Sure, man. And I said, yeah, I'm sure there's a poster right there. You know, he's gonna

00:24:39.719 - 00:25:15.069

be here next week and uh it's, um, it's a very large business but it's a very small community and, and that's, that's good on one way and it's, there are no secrets if you know what I mean? Everybody knows everybody else's business pretty much and, and,

00:25:15.609 - 00:25:46.890

uh, that's the small community. But I, I think it was, there was a bonding that that remains to this day even, even though many of us don't see each other very much anymore because, you know, either I'm on the road or they're on the road or,

00:25:47.489 - 00:26:21.050

or George has gone on to become a lawyer and, um, but there was something that there was something strong about that really strong, same thing with Early Fair with the Early Anderson Fair. Um There was something about that place that drew those certain amount, those certain

00:26:21.060 - 00:26:49.670

people together in a way that uh I think, I don't know, you may see it today but I don't think so to such a degree. Back in the old days we were very tight with each other and everybody hit each other's back and, um, also an

00:26:49.680 - 00:27:16.040

incestuous little group I'm afraid. But, um, there was something about that what we learn from each other. I mean, sitting around the afternoon learning from each other. Um, I don't know that I've been in too many towns where that happens anymore. It just, it just doesn't

00:27:16.050 - 00:27:36.689

seem to go on the way it used, it used to. Uh Hey, man, what are you working on? Please tell me, show me what's that like, man? Um I don't know, I'm sure there are places but II, I rarely see them and I travel a lot

00:27:37.739 - 00:28:06.500

and uh business changed. I mean, it's, it's hard to keep your place open. Yeah, it's difficult. So you said, um kind of earlier and from research that I've done that you did spend time kind of studying what Lightnin Hopkins did and Man's Lipscomb and Mississippi, Fred

00:28:06.510 - 00:28:39.800

mcdowell. Um Can you talk about how they helped you grow as a songwriter and player from the standpoint of the storytelling stuff on stage, the stage performances, lightning was a huge influence on people from that. Uh um You know, uh everything from, oh you young people's

00:28:39.810 - 00:29:16.300

better listen up, you learn something, you know, I mean, it was they Mr Li and then you had, you had, you still had that history that, that came from the Lomax families that, that, uh, kept things rolling for a while, you know? I mean, uh, and

00:29:16.310 - 00:29:42.209

I think, uh, I think when a, when a lot of us saw that it wasn't gonna last forever, I think it was shocking to some of us. And what, uh, what do you mean you're closing down? But, yeah, it, it was a, it was, um, it

00:29:42.219 - 00:30:16.560

was, it was a much different but it's a different way of looking at how one, how one went on stage, what they had to say, what they would put up with, what they wouldn't, it was one of those, you know, uh, what is something that one

00:30:16.569 - 00:30:35.319

of them would not have put up with? What is something that one of them would not have put up with on stage? Oh, heckling talking right in the front row. That kind of thing. You kinda had to learn how to develop that look, you know? Right.

00:30:36.089 - 00:31:02.089

Mhm. I'll send you, I'll send you a picture of one of them. Uh, we, when we put it on the internet for some strange reason, somebody put it on the internet, found it and put it on the internet. We got a lot of responses from it.

00:31:02.099 - 00:31:28.439

But it's like, well, I've seen that look before, you know, it was me looking down sort of, uh, sort of like Bonnie. Right. Had this, she had her own special way of pulling things off like that, but that it was her finger and it was like

00:31:32.510 - 00:31:58.670

on the other end and then, then it was this hush quiet in that corner for the rest of the evening. Interesting. Yeah. Um, I went to see you a couple of years ago and you had talked about either living with or being in the house when

00:31:58.680 - 00:32:27.280

everybody was waking up. And so there was towns who was playing and Guy Clark was there and, um, how did their work influence you? And what did you take away from them? Oh, you, well, you couldn't be around, uh, you couldn't be around that type of

00:32:27.290 - 00:32:51.660

intensity, uh, especially if you were as young as we were. Some of us. It seems like it seems like I was a baby but that it's only five years difference between it. But you just couldn't be around white in Atkins without being influenced by what he

00:32:51.670 - 00:33:25.599

did. I mean, uh, there were some nights, there were some nights that, uh, the towns was flawless. Um, he was like a thoroughbred racehorse really? I mean, you know, uh, and there were some nights that he was, uh, and I'm sure it was that way with,

00:33:25.609 - 00:33:57.310

with all of us at some point. Some nights we pulled it off flawlessly. It seemed, and there were some nights that we struggled, you know, we struggled with drink, we, we struggled with drugs, we struggled with uh, attitude. But from the standpoint of music, for instance,

00:33:57.319 - 00:34:30.449

I mean, you couldn't go to chan and have a hamburger or a cheeseburger with Big Mama Thornton with M May. Without it changing your life. I mean, this is, I'm sitting here eating a hamburger, a cheeseburger with Big Mama Thornton and Mississippi, Fred mcdowell is sleeping

00:34:30.459 - 00:35:13.570

at my house tonight. You know, uh, you know, I'm not sure at the time I was smart enough to know how important that was. Uh I think you sure learn quickly enough how important it was. Uh There was just so much to learn. Hello, so much

00:35:13.580 - 00:35:32.889

to be taught so much to learn. Very important. Time, been very important place. I know that you had learned that there's that song that had gotten passed down. So that guy Clark had written step into this house, then you learned it from him and then you

00:35:32.899 - 00:35:58.590

passed it on to, I love it. Can you talk about that idea of kind of passing music along? Mentoring? Uh I learned it, I learned it from guy. Guy. Never recorded that song. Uh And he claims that it was the first song he ever wrote. Um

00:35:59.229 - 00:36:25.969

I don't know that I believe that um I don't know whether it's important or not. I just to me, it was just a, it was a very important song because it showed you how to take images and make music out of. And the image was very

00:36:25.979 - 00:37:11.780

very important. Uh The back story was also very important. Um, you know, and up until then, you know, up until around that time where the, the writers we're interested, storytellers, interesting storytellers. Um uh And I think that that sort of change thing really, uh For me,

00:37:11.790 - 00:37:32.550

it is, but as far as to passing things along was guy never recorded that song. I never had a tape of it. I never had, I, I learned it from sitting on the front row of the old quarter. Uh, and, you know, having him play it,

00:37:32.669 - 00:38:12.489

uh, three or four o'clock in the morning. Um, and I learned it and, uh, and Lyle, when I met Lyle, um, he was working for the college newspaper at A and M and wanted to come down and do an interview with me and, and, uh, I

00:38:12.500 - 00:38:48.949

wasn't very interested, uh, um, but he did come down, we hit it off. Um, we talked for 4.5, 5 hours. Um, he admits it now, but he wouldn't admit it. Then he really came down for me to teach him a song that I wrote called, uh,

00:38:48.959 - 00:39:21.270

Memphis, Midnight Memphis Morning. Um, he'll admit it now. Yeah. Mhm. But I was pleased that he wanted to know it and I was pleased to give him what I knew of step inside this house. I mean, I just sat down in a chair and taught him

00:39:21.590 - 00:39:49.149

the song, but I learned it from sitting on the front row of the old watching God do it, you know. Um, I think it is very important to pass things down like that. I wish more songwriters. Uh One of the things I see in songwriters today

00:39:49.790 - 00:40:27.989

is, um, is they seem to kind of stick to their own guns about their own song. Um, when I do songwriting classes, one of the first things I'll say is so, what's the first song you ever learned to play? And they'll tell me and I'll ask

00:40:28.000 - 00:41:07.689

them, do you ever play it anymore? No, no, I only play my own songs. So you don't, you don't play from who you learn from. Um I think it's important to um to do that. Uh I'm doing more of it now, what we're talking about when,

00:41:08.719 - 00:41:54.689

when we cut off. So be all right, for instance, there, the song that I'd heard in, in, in, in so many different incarnations um back during the scene. Uh But I never did it. Uh Then, um I've read this book by this guy named uh Stanley

00:41:54.699 - 00:42:30.489

Booth, an incredible writer and he wrote a song, he wrote a book called Rhythm Oil. It was about music. Um And he became really good friends with Fry Lewis. Yeah. Oh Blue Fire. He was a garbage man with the folk revival taking place as it was

00:42:30.500 - 00:43:05.010

taking place. Fury would came, Fury played Carnegie Hall with a bunch of other people. Um Flew back to Memphis, got a few hours sleep and went to his day job, which was, he was a garbage man and um intrigued me. And then Susan was looking up

00:43:05.810 - 00:43:27.560

this song that I was talking about that, that furry did I think he did it at the concert at hall. But it's, it's been done in so many different variations to hear. Do a variation of it today. It's like it becomes three or four different songs

00:43:27.570 - 00:44:25.419

in itself which uh I've I find that fascinating to be able to, to pull it off, pull back, see if I can do it, I can. Yes, sir. Boy, I got a word to say. I got

00:44:25.429 - 00:45:16.040

a bird man, man. I got it to, got a bear to whistle bird to sing woman for the summer, woman for the spring. Got a bird to whistle boys. I got it. Say don't ever let you go on treat me like man tree. They'll never let

00:45:16.050 - 00:46:31.909

you. Mm Treat me like mud. She just treat me well like you don't even see Paul was seeing the don't drink here. You ever see me sober? You get me drunk kid. I said I whiskey. And did you ever see me? So get me drunk because

00:46:31.919 - 00:47:22.030

it's so hard days can love someone. They don't to love me. Yes. So oh baby boy, bring my heart in down to the gypsy. He said get my gypsy for home. He said for man, you show me Gypsy book. You sure to clear yourself and get

00:47:22.040 - 00:48:19.520

you some chips here. Yeah. You see, I'm going to the races in the morning, I'm gonna see my corner. I'm worn to the Raids in the morning just to see my po if you win some. I hope you give me some because they got a dirt

00:48:19.530 - 00:49:08.330

whistle for that third to stay. Not a bird. Well, I got a bid but if you win anything at the re if you win anything at the razor, I hope you give me his. Yeah. Yeah, that's an old song that I'm really glad I've learned to,

00:49:08.760 - 00:49:33.949

to do. You lived in Nashville for a little bit? Um What happened? There? You went there, we talked about this a little bit earlier that you went there in the seventies. Yeah. Yeah. Could you tell me about that adventure? Uh There wasn't much adventure. It was

00:49:33.959 - 00:50:06.530

a lot of uh hunger and humility. Uh I had a great time there. There were some good people in Nashville but uh down, you know, hanging out with all the of my boys and, and, and, and, and ended up, I don't know if I was signed

00:50:06.540 - 00:50:33.469

yet or not, but I know a lot of us went home. That's the same time. But, but Jack, um, Jack Clement, Cowboy Clement who brought me into his room to his office one day and uh and towns was leaning up against a wall in the corner

00:50:33.500 - 00:51:10.949

wearing these big mirror sunglasses. I know I could see him. He thought and um, and Jack said, Eric, I, I wanna tell you something. Uh, I love these songs. Uh, I love them. Uh, my wife loves him. Uh, and my girlfriend loves him but you got

00:51:10.959 - 00:51:57.370

a song on here. That's 12 minutes long. And I said yes sir. And uh, yeah. Mhm. 12 minutes er, about an ending and yes sir. So, do you know where you are? Do you know where you are? Eric? Ok. Sorry. How many Nashville? And he says

00:51:59.540 - 00:52:34.870

what we do here in Nashville is we don't write songs about Indians that are 12 minutes long. Uh, he said I could, I couldn't sell the song 12 minutes long. If it was about my private time with women, you sure ain't gonna sell one down here.

00:52:35.129 - 00:53:00.570

It's about ending. And, uh, and towns just kept pulling his hat down, you know. Um, and I knew that I know I could start packing the van, you know, any time that I needed to. I mean, I knew. So it was so silly, silly notion. Uh,

00:53:00.580 - 00:53:41.090

there were some other people, I think that had the same, the same kind of experience. Uh, and, and, uh, JM, I was in trouble anyway because, uh, they'd lost, they lost one of their Don Williams. They last, they'd lost him. Um, Jack only signed the people

00:53:41.100 - 00:54:01.949

up on a handshake or most ways and even Don was coming up and doing very well, get ready to have his own summer special television show. And Jack wanted a contract. Jack wanted to bring lawyers into it and I mean, I mean, Don did, Don, wanted

00:54:01.959 - 00:54:37.199

to bring some, get things squared away, you know, and, and, and Jack wouldn't do it. So he lost one of his biggest selling artists. I knew that we were in trouble when I saw Earl Willis cutting the grass. Um But no, I, there were good times

00:54:37.209 - 00:55:02.139

there but I didn't stay very long. I mean, I, I knew better than to try to eke it out. I mean, uh, so then would that mean that your first um kind of official recording would have been the songs for um through The Dark Knightly? Mhm

00:55:03.370 - 00:55:24.479

What was it like working on that? What was it like doing that? Yeah. Well, it was Walter who says hello, by the way, I spoke with him told him I was gonna be speaking with you and he said, tell her love for me, Walter had an

00:55:24.489 - 00:56:00.840

idea of putting together a uh uh a group of people that were on his booking roster and going into at that time, it was called Bickley Studio. Now it's Romano's red. But um listen, people like me, Lynn Langham, Bill C. Steven Gerard um were on his

00:56:00.850 - 00:56:21.090

roster and, and, and he wanted to be able to send this, helped people look who I'm booking and uh, anyway, Bob got a hold of it and he liked it so much and thought it was such a great idea that he did this book right up

00:56:21.100 - 00:56:44.310

in the paper. And the next thing we knew, uh, we was getting the orders for the record from people and I think Cactus Records at that time wanted to, uh, have some in each store and one thing kind of led to another and, but I don't

00:56:44.320 - 00:57:05.010

know, we ended up selling, there was supposed to be promo records and, and, uh, that was the cheapest way to do it. You know, each person did three songs and this is what you're gonna get if you hire or you hire Steven or you hire Anchor.

00:57:06.379 - 00:57:32.520

Uh, I, I don't even have one. I think somebody ran off with that. Um, I can send you a digital copy. I can send you a digital version of it. I did but I digitized it. Oh, so I can send you, I can send you a

00:57:32.530 - 00:58:00.739

copy. You do. Yeah, that'd be great because I, I have, I haven't had one in years. I don't know who ran off with it but it's gone. And then the same as Love record came about. Bye. A lot of fans who, by some fans who were

00:58:00.750 - 00:58:38.790

equipped financially to throw some money into, to make them, uh, real record of me and, and then, um, I kind of quit the music business for quite a while, um, you know, and it's no secret to anyone that I, I had some problems. Um, I had

00:58:38.800 - 00:59:07.929

some drug problems. Uh, I, I don't think, I don't think I was fooling anybody but, uh, we got up, we got on the charts over in England and I was invited to come over to Ireland, England and I knew that if I win, I'll probably never

00:59:07.939 - 00:59:44.379

make it back. So, um, I had to make a decision and, uh, because they try to make you happy there, you know, the balls of stuff being stuffed in your pocket. And, um, and so I decided not to, that I was going to stop touring for

00:59:44.389 - 01:00:17.919

a while and, and one thing led to another and I had a daughter and then I got into working with addicts, most of them straight out of the penitentiary. So, is it? Mhm. Interesting. Did you do that? In the nineties? I stopped, uh, touring in 83

01:00:18.780 - 01:00:46.530

and didn't do a, uh, didn't put out another record until the Eric Tater record in 95 but she did very well. Mhm. Yeah, I, I actually have, um, a question here about that, that, you know, since 95 you've released eight albums, which are you the proudest

01:00:46.540 - 01:01:19.510

of and why all of them, all of them, all of them. But, um, I think the one that I relate to the most, uh, it's, uh, scuffle Town, which most of it was influenced by a writer, friend of mine named Harry Cruz wrote Feast of Snakes,

01:01:19.520 - 01:01:59.989

Childhood Car, uh, and lived a lot of the same type of life that I led when I was young. Very, um, um, ended up being a, um, a rather interesting professor. Um, which University of Florida is it in Gainesville or Jacksonville? Gainesville, isn't it? Yeah. How

01:02:00.000 - 01:02:31.350

are you? I'm not sure yet. It's where we were going where I cut my finger. Gainesville. Gainesville. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, he was very influential in my life. Um, we talked on the phone so, but I never got to meet him in person. We, it set

01:02:31.360 - 01:03:14.620

up some, some opportunities to do it but never really got to, um, sit down and talk. Uh, he could be, it, he could be just as hard as me sometimes. Um, but, hm, could write, um, about as good as anybody I've ever known. I mean, I'm

01:03:14.629 - 01:03:56.560

sometimes called, uh, I think Nancy had this statement one time that, that I was the, the Faulkner of songwriting, um, uh, which I thought was sort of foolish but I certainly can think things just keep clicking along. Well, sometimes I get asked, where do you get

01:03:56.570 - 01:04:24.000

these characters? These, where do you get these people that you write about? A, a and, um, a lot of them are, are sort of a come out of short stories that I'm writing or that. But, I mean, where do I get these characters? Um, my answer

01:04:24.010 - 01:05:03.639

is normally. Well, I, I am a writer and, um, I tend to write about other people's lives much easier than I, than I write about mine. But Steve Earle tells me that he thinks that's bold because, um, that everything that we write it is somehow autobiographical.

01:05:04.100 - 01:05:42.300

It's everything we write is somehow about us. I see that to some degree. But, um, mm, um, there's a lot of Sterling Hayden in here, my friend, there's a lot of me in here. Um, and a lot of it is short story to put to music.

01:05:43.989 - 01:06:23.780

Um, I, I wrote this, I wrote this song actually came out on the Eric Taylor record. Um, it's always done me. Well, it's always, people have always liked the song and asked me to play it. Um, but it's called Prison Movie. Where in prison? You do

01:06:23.790 - 01:07:01.310

everything in a life. I mean, you line up, you go eat, you, line up to go play basketball, you line up, line up, line up to go to bed. Um, so you live your life and you live your life in line. And, uh, so it's from

01:07:01.320 - 01:08:21.580

a variation of places. I mean, I, I've never, uh, it's a song that I'm very satisfied with. You can hit the spotlight around him with legs long, pale, learned to cry in the cradle. Burned to lie in jail. And you're a

01:08:21.589 - 01:08:56.169

handsome man from Atlanta George. Queen of the South. We get a little kiss from your mom and your daddy hit you square in the mouth. Had a little boy had a little girl named Rachel, had a little boy named Ray. Well, I had a little girl

01:08:56.180 - 01:09:43.599

named Rachel and we had a little boy named Marie. The shot a little man down in Macon, Georgia had a mouth too big for his face. Just another white trash cracker living. Only shame. Only pull the trigger was, you know, the bullet was to play in

01:09:43.608 - 01:10:41.020

the land walking while the world outside Spanish in the end. Yeah. And while you move comes up. So. Oh, well, if I could leave here tomorrow, ok. Probably wouldn't know what to say. Probably go live with my mama. Still all her pocketbook change man. I take

01:10:41.029 - 01:11:09.799

a stupid station wagon and fill it up with whiskey and gas. Take it on down, make it sit in front of Rachel's house. You know, I just kind of kind of sit out in front of the house there, see if she looked out the door or

01:11:09.810 - 01:11:49.629

is she looked out the bedroom window curtain and saw me sitting there thinking maybe she would come out and talk to me, but that's what I do. That's what I do. And they can write a book about me. I can sign a movie deal. Lawyers can

01:11:49.640 - 01:13:12.890

take all the money as long as Johnny Cash pay, he can hit the spot later in with next. Hey, who all of the world. So, and no living why you comes, your son goes with dad. Yeah. OK. While the

01:13:15.000 - 01:14:35.950

I say, say it, I know. Mhm You know. Yeah. Comes the sun goes down. No, when I did an oral history with Rock Romano, he talked about recording with you. Um Could you talk about working with him at

01:14:35.959 - 01:15:13.990

Red Shack? There's really not anyone else that would rather record with really, um, um, Rux been having his troubles, um, with his brothers, both of his brothers dying like that. Uh, he's, he, he's a remarkable man. It's like he knows what I'm thinking before. I do.

01:15:14.509 - 01:15:41.379

I mean, he knows where I'm going. And, um, yeah, it's very unusual to have somebody like that in your life with that, uh, especially when it comes to putting music together on tape. Um, it's a very unusual thing. I mean, I've worked with other, um, with

01:15:41.390 - 01:16:29.439

other producers and engineers but simply the best and, uh, when I get ready to put together another record, I'm sure I'll work around. Uh, no, you know, the who or who is going on tour or going on tour here last month's or coming months or whatever.

01:16:30.979 - 01:16:54.770

And the interviewer said you're going on tour without a new record, uh, you just kind of never think of Roger Daltry blowing his head, you know, you, you think maybe it would be Townsend or somebody like that, but he just sort of lost it on the

01:16:54.779 - 01:17:27.200

guy that was interviewing him there. A nobody's buying records. You know, they're still in records. Um, they don't, they, people don't have any, you know, idea how much that hurts musicians, especially traveling musicians. I mean, that's a lot of how we make our money is and

01:17:27.209 - 01:18:08.589

the musicians that I know is, is selling the actual piece of work. And, um, there's just so many strange things going on, um, you know, concert in my window where, you know, it means you won't get in your car and, you know, go downtown or drive

01:18:08.600 - 01:18:35.390

20 miles to La Grange to, to see a show, but you'll, since it's on concert in your window, they sit at home on their sofa lounge and invite a bunch of people over, you know, guacamole. And so it's, it's, it's a music, it's a business that's

01:18:35.399 - 01:19:11.600

really changed and it's, uh, it's, it's, it's made things permanently different. Um, but to answer your question, sure. Uh, working with rock has always been a thrill to me and it will, will be the next time we do it. Um, looking forward to it. So you've

01:19:11.609 - 01:19:33.229

been, you just touch on this and I do want to ask about, you know, you have been a person who actively tours, you have a, a really booked schedule. Um, can you just talk about maybe from starting that back up in the nineties until today? How

01:19:33.240 - 01:20:07.319

that has changed over time? Oh, it's changed. It's changed drastically. I mean, uh, there's a lot of clubs that have been open for 40 years, 50 years, they closed their doors, um, or they become one of those, uh, what do you call it? Um, taxes and

01:20:07.330 - 01:20:41.450

stuff like that? A nonprofit, what is that called? See, remember, or like a 501 c three, I guess something happened. Um, that's how a lot of places sustain lives because of that. If, if, um, if they want a nonprofit organization they, they wouldn't even have their

01:20:41.459 - 01:21:24.970

doors open. Um, so, yeah, it's music had changed. Kanye West is here. Um, uh, you know, you really can't expect things to stay the same forever. But, I mean, it's, boy, I, at one, at times in my life I've really looked forward to going on tour

01:21:24.979 - 01:21:46.390

and, you know, doing a, you know, I used to go to England or to Europe sometimes as long as three months, 3.5 months at a time. Um, um, have you seen the same changes there as you have in the States? Say, what? Have you seen the

01:21:46.399 - 01:22:30.129

same changes in Europe as you have seen in the States? Yeah. Yeah, there's, you know, and, you know, it, sure it makes me sad to know, you know, that people that love my music are dying off. Really. Um, you can't dodge it. I mean, you certainly

01:22:30.140 - 01:23:05.490

can't dodge that. Uh, you can, uh, trying to figure out a way to do it. And, uh I'm, I guess my next big project sides continued to work on the songs. For the next record is to put together a songbook, write a song book, can illustrate

01:23:05.500 - 01:23:41.390

it myself. I used to be an illustrator so I'd have to work on my chops a little bit. But, um, and um, stop separating your shoulder would be cool. But, uh I'm not, I'm not ready to fold it, you know, I mean, it's, I am willing

01:23:41.399 - 01:24:20.509

to though, take a pragmatic look at what's going on and the, and the headlines in tomorrow's paper is Eric Taylor goes pragmatic. The end of the world is coming since you're gonna be working on a songwriting book. Um Have your songwriting techniques changed over time? Not

01:24:20.520 - 01:25:12.379

much. Not really. Um How do you do it? Like, how do you start? All right. Well, up until, you know, the last six months or so, uh just, just to write ranges of notes, um, take notes and, uh, and work in a diary also. Um, but

01:25:12.390 - 01:25:42.359

keeping things down, I've really kind of pulled away from the, from the, the way I used to but uh I can feel it coming back and, and, uh, and I'm really glad to be able to, you know, feel like it's coming back. Oh, yeah. You know,

01:25:45.089 - 01:26:22.779

Susan's father who's written, I don't know how many books I, I don't know, he's even lost count but, um, many books, many, I was talking with him the other night and, and it's, you know, I sometimes have to remember, you know, you're a writer, you get

01:26:22.790 - 01:26:59.959

up and write, you know. Um, I, I, II, I never really accepted, uh, people who said they had writer's block. You know, how wonderful. Um, you know, I've never called an electrician or a plumber to the house and have them say, I'm sorry, I can't do

01:26:59.970 - 01:27:32.020

it. I have plumber's block or electricians block or whatever. I think it's just something we lay on ourselves in and, uh, I think a lot of it, uh, stems from, you know, depression and, and I've suffered depression all my life and I've got him, I gotta

01:27:32.029 - 01:28:02.129

get cool again. Um, and I, and I, I can only hope that things continue to get better. I mean, with Susan's support, I've been able to make a lot of progress with, with that. Uh I can no longer travel alone. So. Oh, or you wanna, you

01:28:02.140 - 01:28:22.709

wanna see something that looks like, you know, Fruit Loop City, you know, we, we carry the dog, we bought, we bought a van and we carried the dog and I carry my parrot. So, yeah, calling up New, you know, a place in New York and say

01:28:23.470 - 01:28:53.060

I, I just wanna make sure, you know, I'm carrying my, I'm bringing my dog and my parrot and, um, and I'm sure she must hear a lot of long pauses right after that. Then anyway, that's the way it's gonna go. Or I don't play. And one

01:28:53.069 - 01:29:23.540

of those, love me, love my dogs. Uh, guys. Um, but I gotta get healed up and squared away and I'll be back out there. So, looking back on the Houston folk scene from the sixties to the eighties. Why do you think it changed again? So, looking

01:29:23.549 - 01:29:55.490

back on the Houston folk scene from the sixties to the eighties, why do you think it changed? What do I think it failed or just changed? It was so vibrant and then it just, uh, truthfully. Mhm. I think social media and, um, changed the way people

01:29:55.500 - 01:30:23.459

live their lives and, uh, even into the eighties there, I mean, there were some, sometimes, you know, I couldn't wait for the next somebody's record to come out, you know? And, uh, and you don't have, you know, you don't have that much anymore. You don't have

01:30:23.470 - 01:30:40.669

that opportunity anymore. Uh, to, I mean, you could do it, you can do it if you want to go to Amazon and, and buy the whole record from Amazon. But Amazon is gonna try to get you just to buy it from them, you know, and they'll

01:30:40.680 - 01:31:18.620

send you a little thing you put in your computer, which I find absolutely ridiculous. Um, I think people lost interest and in music and art, uh, the view of it is much different than it, than it was then they have, they have all these toys

01:31:18.629 - 01:31:45.589

they can play with now, you know, all these grown up toys and, uh, I tried, I tried social media for a while and it didn't take me long to know that it wasn't for me. Um, so, I mean, I've been off for a good, long while

01:31:45.600 - 01:32:31.720

now. Um, I, I'm gonna, probably changed my whole career and become one of the, uh, professional scooter racer. Yeah, I, I think that's a good choice. That's a good choice. I like it. Uh You know, I used to think the pendulum would swing back. I used

01:32:31.729 - 01:33:16.410

to think that I, I have less uh I have less hope in that swing back. Um I mean, you know, I don't know what would make it swing back. I mean, once you've lost the interest of, of, of the people uh and want it

01:33:16.419 - 01:33:45.459

done the easy way. I think it's hard for people to wanted it this way, man. So it's, it's up to us as artists uh or craftsman or whatever you want to call it. It's up to us to try to but keep spreading the word, you know,

01:33:45.470 - 01:34:31.140

I mean, um I, I do house concerts sometimes and I walk in and I hear myself on stream that um it just makes my blood boil off sometimes. You know what, I'm getting paid. Nothing. Uh Yeah, but you're getting exposure. I've been doing this a long

01:34:31.149 - 01:34:58.169

time, man. You think I need to be exposed to any more than I have been. Uh, I don't know what the answer is gonna be. I, I really don't know, but certainly something has to change are just not gonna have it. They're not gonna have music.

01:34:59.290 - 01:35:52.459

Um, I mean, as the Osborne you can always, but I think the government is going to continue to cut back, uh, arts and humanities and, and while that continues, I think you're still going to run into, you're gonna continue to be in trouble. So

01:35:54.509 - 01:36:17.379

that's Malo and do, uh, well, is there anything else that you would like to talk about? No, I think we've covered a lot of grounds and thank you. I really appreciate you having me. Uh, thank you so much for coming.