00:00:14.170 - 00:00:34.979

My name is Nori Guthrie from the Woodson Research Center, Fond Library Rice University. I am interviewing David John Scribner. Today is May 19th 2017. This is part of the Houston Folk Music Archive, oral History project. Can you tell me about your early life? Well, grew up

00:00:34.990 - 00:01:06.768

in northern Minnesota and uh small town, 10,000 people and uh college town. So there's a lot of good music around. I mean, as far as people like my parents would think, uh, there's a lot of classical stuff and, uh, theater and college theater, not uh, two

00:01:06.778 - 00:01:29.680

movie theaters in town. And, uh, that's about it, you know. So what first drew you to music? Well, my parents, I guess because my parents, my, my mom was more but along with classical lines and, uh, my dad was classical and like me sort of everything.

00:01:30.370 - 00:01:50.910

You know, we had the opera records, we had Poca records, we had, you know, big band stuff on records, you know, don't think we got that wrong. Stay until around 1960 or something that mainly a little RC, a turntable thing that you could put together yourself

00:01:50.919 - 00:02:08.460

and a speaker that was off to the side and an amp of some sort might have even been from the school. I don't know if my dad was a teacher and, uh, I played 40 fives on it or whatever. I used to play radio with it.

00:02:09.970 - 00:02:29.110

My, uh, they let me do that and get out my Petrushka recording and play that and things like that. So, um, did you ever play an instrument or? Yeah, they give me a test because there are people who played music on my mother's side of the

00:02:29.119 - 00:02:42.809

family that I knew about, but I didn't know of anything on my dad's side of the family until later. But they tested me and they figured I should be playing violin. So, took three years of violin and part way through. I wanted to play clarinet. So

00:02:42.820 - 00:03:04.559

I started playing clarinet too and neither of them really stuck with me. I'm partially tone deaf, which doesn't help much if you're playing, I can read music, but I can't, uh really play and uh maybe I just listen to it. OK. So when the kind of

00:03:04.570 - 00:03:21.460

that passion kind of started with your parents, and then did you kind of start to develop your own sense of the first, really, I guess folk album that my, uh parents got was I think the second Joan album my dad came home with it one day

00:03:21.470 - 00:03:36.839

and that was, that sort of impressed me. And I had Peter Paul and Mary and from Jimmy Rogers, not the, uh, singing Braman, but the other Jimmy Rogers album and, uh, I don't know if we had any bur hives or not, might have had something about

00:03:36.850 - 00:03:59.360

burr hives. The, uh, the other stuff I got more or less from the radio at night. So, once I got old enough to have my own radio. So, when did you end up leaving home? Well, I left home, uh, after I, after college, I mean, after

00:03:59.369 - 00:04:15.360

high school, uh, I went away and then I spent that summer at home. Then I went away for one semester of college part way through the second semester of college. I was gone. I was, uh, down in Arizona for a while and then I was on

00:04:15.369 - 00:04:35.829

my way back to college and, uh, ended up in Houston and been here ever since. So why did you decide to stay here? Like, or why, why did you end up in Houston? Like what, like, well, I've been living in the desert and Arizona outside Tucson

00:04:36.190 - 00:04:50.720

and also up on Mount 11 for about like six weeks or something. Not a long time, but six weeks and I decided to go back to school and I was hitchhiking back guy, picked me up, said he was going to Houston if I wanted to go

00:04:50.730 - 00:05:05.540

that far. And instead of cutting north at Los Cres said his parents were out of town and, uh, they had a swimming pool and we could hang around. I said, well, that sounds good to me. And, uh, when he's talking, he found out I'd been in

00:05:05.549 - 00:05:25.209

Boulder for winter before and, uh, I thought I might have some mutual friends with his old girlfriend. So he, uh, set us up on sort of a blind date. Turned out we did have mutual friends but got married 24 days later and divorced seven years later

00:05:25.220 - 00:05:43.609

and we didn't kill each other pretty good. I mean, from that aspect it wasn't. So that's so that's why you, you, you ended up falling in love and so you stayed, stayed here. Yeah. And, and I should say, I guess we should go back to m

00:05:43.750 - 00:06:03.720

so a little bit we originally I lived in and then my, I guess between my junior, my sophomore and junior year, my uh dad got a job teaching in the Elk River school district. He had been one of the main negotiators for the high school and

00:06:03.730 - 00:06:25.149

the, for the school teachers in there negotiations for a new contract, which is sort of a new thing at that time. And he was uh not overly happy with the school board and they probably weren't overly happy with, with him because of the negotiating negotiations. Uh

00:06:25.390 - 00:06:40.480

And then they, he made sure the teachers got a good deal and um so he had a job offer. One of his friends from college called him up and said we're starting this new thing down here. We've got a grant from the Central Minnesota Educational Research

00:06:40.489 - 00:06:55.079

and Development Council. Do you want to come down here and work on this? He's checked in school. We gave him a three year leave of absence. And the idea was that if, if it's stuck on, he'd stay in the Elk River, you know, he wanted to

00:06:55.089 - 00:07:11.890

stay down there anyway. So, um, my dad and I moved at the beginning of the school year because I ran track and cross country and couldn't switch schools in the middle of the year and still be eligible. And my mom and brother stayed up there and

00:07:11.899 - 00:07:29.329

every weekend we'd drive back and forth 200 miles each way. And, but it was in Minneapolis and I started picking up a lot of the, of the other stuff. Uh and, and be I'd go to the college and I, they, they always said that bookstore always

00:07:29.339 - 00:07:49.779

had records out for sale, like from the Legacy recording type things and uh archives of folk music, stuff like this. It's no dollar 99 records. And I picked up like Lightnin Hopkins and Lead Belly and some Clancy Brothers and Memphis Slim and some stuff like this.

00:07:49.790 - 00:08:04.399

And that's how I started getting sort of interested in that. Then when I got down to Minneapolis, I found out about Ray and Glover. So I, one of my friends had one of their albums. So I went down to the store called Electric Fetus, which is

00:08:04.410 - 00:08:21.130

still there. It's moved about three times. But, uh, and they had, they had everything and I start buying stuff down there and also checking them out of the library. No, county library had real good record collection so I could get stuff like that out of there.

00:08:21.140 - 00:08:37.799

And that's when I really started going off on that. And my track coach's roommate in college had been this guy named Leo. So he had a party one time after I got out of high school and I went over there and got to see him and

00:08:38.059 - 00:08:53.460

that really impressed me. So I just, but it, you know, it sort of grew from there and then Tony Glover had a radio show in Minneapolis too and he played everything and I didn't realize it until a few years ago, but that might be part of

00:08:53.469 - 00:09:11.679

the idea of a way my chicken skin music came about in a sense. Uh, although I play classical and jazz at the beginning when I first started doing the show in addition of the folk stuff and the, you know, blues and stuff like that. But it

00:09:11.690 - 00:09:28.320

was, you know, everything can fit together. You just have to figure out how to put it together. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, do you, did you kind of develop a little bit of like a record buying habit? Did you have to, like, not until I got

00:09:28.330 - 00:09:48.750

down here? And actually probably not until I started doing the radio show that it got to be really bad. Ok. All right. Yeah, it's, uh, yeah. Um, so if we move, um, unless there's more that you want to say about Minneapolis and that kind of formation,

00:09:48.760 - 00:10:03.219

no, I think it's, there's just a lot of good music out in Minneapolis. And you, you'd hear that and you, besides, I guess that was Katie, I think it was probably KDWB but Tony Glover had the show on, it was on like 12th or 10 to

00:10:03.229 - 00:10:18.229

1 or something like that. And then you'd switch over to Kay Little Rock and Clyde Clifford with Beer Street. And it was, he, he had all sorts of stuff and he, he was real good. That was, you know, clear channel out of Little Rock and that

00:10:18.239 - 00:10:39.070

was all up and down the Mississippi Valley and ads for record stores in New Orleans. You know, it's, I never had the money to order anything from, um, if we move forward in time back to Houston a little bit when you decided to stay here, did

00:10:39.080 - 00:10:58.950

you start to interact with the music scene that was already here? Not, not really. No. Uh, when I moved here, it, the first local musician I met was actually not as a musician, but as the director of my wife in the one act play at the

00:10:58.960 - 00:11:10.090

University of Saint Thomas, which is where she was going. And that was Joe Romano and, and it, you know, and I knew he was a musician but I mean, I, I just met him and I, you know, I talked to him a little bit but I

00:11:10.099 - 00:11:24.770

never did anything as far as music goes with them. I just, you know, was just during the play and that was for like, a couple of days and that was it. But, uh, no, I, I mainly, I guess, uh, my reactions with musicians would probably come

00:11:24.780 - 00:11:42.400

more from when I was working at a restaurant and like Sean Walters would come in all the time and, and, you know, I'd talk to him and stuff like that. We'd have posters up for that stuff and um listen to True and I picked up a

00:11:42.409 - 00:11:58.210

lot of stuff through True back then listening to things that, that restaurant was at a place where people would play. No, no, it was just a Orlando's Burger Factory and it's like at the corner of Montrose in Alabama by University of Saint Thomas. So it was

00:11:58.219 - 00:12:21.929

sort of in the heart of, you know, Montrose. And uh all right. Um So then did you, you didn't really, you weren't really going to any clubs at the time? I, I'd go to Liberty Hall a lot simply because the guy who owned the restaurant was

00:12:21.940 - 00:12:39.500

from Argentina, as was Roberto, who was one of the main people at Liberty Hall. So Roberto would always drop off tickets for Liberty Hall and I would usually end up with them, you know, so I could, I could go there a lot. But, yeah. And, uh,

00:12:39.510 - 00:12:55.429

and especially, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm making next to nothing and my, my wife's making next to nothing. If she was working half a time she wasn't. So, I mean, we didn't have money to go out. You know, what were some of the shows that

00:12:55.440 - 00:13:23.609

you saw at Liberty Hall? Uh, I think the first one I saw was asleep at the wheel. Uh, Rory Gallagher, uh Graham Parsons. Oh, Dusty drapes in the dusters. Uh, loud and Wayne, right. Uh, trying to think of who I was. Honestly, it's almost like Rory

00:13:23.619 - 00:13:45.330

Gallagher a lot. I think I saw him there twice. Springsteen. Um, you were at the Billy Joel, uh Juke Boy Bonner, uh John Hyatt, um Wholesale Ramsey Jerry, I think Jerry Jeff or no, that was the Liberty Hall. I don't know if I saw him at

00:13:45.340 - 00:14:08.090

Liberty Hall Velvet Underground. You know, we're talking 40 years, but she still got to see a really great line up though. Yeah, I get to see and that was a great place to, to see music. And, uh, from what I understand, my brother in law used

00:14:08.099 - 00:14:27.700

to work there too for a little bit but, and I never did ask him much about that and he just passed. So, um, Sand Mountain, not the original, but the second Sand Mountain Ok. Which was over on Richmond. I think it lasts about three or four

00:14:27.710 - 00:15:03.130

months. Ok. When was that one opened? Uh, probably around 73 or something like that. 73 74 greasy Wheels was there. By that time the country stuff had started to really, you know, progressive country. You start to really come in, Doctor John at Liberty Hall. So I

00:15:03.140 - 00:15:15.739

was trying to kind of, I was kind of expecting that you might have gone to show you went to Liberty Hall shows, but you might have been going to some of the other clubs, but that probably happened a bit later, I guess. Yeah, I, when I,

00:15:15.750 - 00:15:32.549

one time I went to, first time I went to Anderson Fair was just for lunch and I don't think anybody was playing. Um I gotta say I didn't have, didn't have money to be going out and that made a lot of difference and things that makes

00:15:32.559 - 00:15:58.059

sense. So then when San at Liberty Hall guy Clark at Liberty Hall, I'm not Liberty Hall, I'm sorry, Anderson there, I'm thinking so I'm getting my places mixed up. That's ok. So then when did you start DJ? 76? Ok. Was that just at or no, that

00:15:58.070 - 00:16:20.020

was at Kuhf originally? And then the flood happened and back to the restaurant, Eric Sisson and Bob Mosley or Mo Mo Moseley used to come in, distribute the pliers to, to various places. Our little promo flyers and uh and I was talking, they found out I

00:16:20.030 - 00:16:37.119

was doing radio over at Kuhf and asked if I'd like to do some at, and I said yes. So they were just starting, they had just gotten, we had just gotten back up on, on the air after the flood. And, uh, so it was like they

00:16:37.130 - 00:16:51.130

wanted to be on from 1 to 4 in the morning. So I would do 21 to 4 in the mornings, one week. And the next, and a guy named Mike Par would do 31 week. And the next, so one week I do Monday, Wednesday and Friday,

00:16:51.140 - 00:17:10.900

the next week I'd do Monday and Friday. And, uh, and I was also doing probably two or three nights at Kuhf at that time with jazz stuff, but the first stuff at Kuhf was right, top 40 you know, middle of the road type stuff off 40

00:17:10.910 - 00:17:29.369

fives with having a back time up with a clock and everything for news and everything else. And it was, it would still work out. And then when you got to, what kind of program I just did regular, regular rock stuff, whatever. We were real. We played

00:17:29.380 - 00:17:48.550

everything and that, that was a point back then they, they played everything and then at some point we got a new music director and he had a tendency to go, the bluegrass stuff dropped off the playlist and I thought, you know, like new Grass revival, this

00:17:48.560 - 00:18:05.800

stuff and folky type stuff is not getting played. So that's when I came up with the idea of doing chicken skin. So I started doing that because there was the, because if you start around 76 there was the show before that the, yeah. Right. And so

00:18:07.300 - 00:18:20.989

did a flat kind of, was that doing that kind of old programmer or new programmer or, like, what was the, I know, I, I wouldn't, I couldn't really say much about Abu Flat. All I know is it was there and I'm not even sure it was

00:18:21.000 - 00:18:40.739

there still. When I started, I'm not, it might have been, but I know there was a, a thing on Friday afternoons which used to be sort of a progressive country thing. And, um, trying to think of what else Sunday was entirely a different type of programming.

00:18:43.229 - 00:19:00.420

Um, and I, I should say that the bluegrass stuff, a lot of my bluegrass knowledge came from a show on KPFT called Bluegrass Express that a guy named Tony did. And I used to put that on in the restaurant most of the time the restaurant. Well,

00:19:00.430 - 00:19:22.400

if I had any control where would be on this is before I started listening to it and then started working at, but, uh, Saturday mornings was always Bluegrass Express. So, were you, so, when you started at, um, were you still working at a restaurant? Oh, yeah.

00:19:22.430 - 00:19:39.750

Wow. Ok. Yeah, one time I was doing, I was going to school full time. I was working at the restaurant full time and I was doing radio four or five nights a week and essentially getting divorced full time. That's what I think. I mean, I'm never

00:19:39.760 - 00:19:59.130

home. Yeah. Yeah, you would have been super busy and we didn't have a car. So I'm riding my bike from Richmond and the loop to you of age to work to home. Back to U of H or back to rice. Wow. Did you get burned out?

00:19:59.430 - 00:20:16.680

No. Ok. It seems like that would be hard to do all of that. You know, when you're young, I, I'm finally, now as I get older, I, you know, I used to be up to two in the morning and get up at six, you know, college.

00:20:16.709 - 00:20:36.160

I remember being up listening to theater until it ended at three o'clock in the morning and still making my eight o'clock class across campus in the middle of the winter, you know? No, not anymore. All right. So you, um, so about what year did you start?

00:20:36.209 - 00:20:55.680

Chicken skin music? I think it was, it's written down somewhere on the thing. I think I, I'd have to look it up, but it was either, I think it might have been 79. I think it was 79 January 8th. Ok. 79. Ok. And then, um, initially,

00:20:55.689 - 00:21:11.589

like, what was your big aim for this show? Like, did you just kind of want to have more of a, like, yeah, I, I wanted to have the stuff played, you know, and, and it wasn't getting played anymore. So that was the whole thing, felt it

00:21:11.599 - 00:21:29.520

was out there, it needed to be played. Right. Do you wanna take a moment and kind of just describe what chicken skin music, what that radio show was, or? It still is. Um, though you're not doing it well, um, you know, that's, I've got a tape

00:21:29.530 - 00:21:44.150

of that first show somewhere but it, when it first started, it came on after a show we had called Blast from the Past, which we'd play in the album every week. And the, the night that Chicken skin started, it was Emmylou Harris's Elite Hotel. I played

00:21:44.969 - 00:22:02.560

and the first song I ever played on the show was Tom Haxton's, uh, ain't nobody's business acoustic version of that really nice. And, uh, yeah, I have and I think probably, you know, some Dizzy Gillespie. I know Salt Peanuts. I'm pretty sure it is the song

00:22:02.569 - 00:22:23.729

I played and, and probably some Ry Cooder and I don't know, but just, just the mix of things and I just sort of work around and work my way around through things and, and, and play whatever, whatever met my fancy at that particular moment, the show

00:22:23.739 - 00:22:39.439

is all sort of had up flow to it. I mean, I mean, in the sense that I'll go through periods where it may be more one direction than another, you know, and then, you know, like it may be a bunch of more acoustic stuff or older

00:22:39.449 - 00:22:53.439

stuff and then I'll start getting the new stuff again, you know, this is over a couple of months and then I'll go back the other direction again and it's just, and near the end here when I decided it was time to, you know, look for somebody

00:22:53.449 - 00:23:05.770

else, you know, it, it was getting to be a real chore. It used to be three hours and then I went down to two and when, believe me, it's easier to do three hours than it is to simply because of the fact that you can't play.

00:23:06.010 - 00:23:20.000

It's, and the problem is there's so much stuff coming out now, it's almost impossible to keep up with it. It's just really, there's a lot of people that you miss and it's just, and it bothers me. There's a lot of good people out there that need,

00:23:21.079 - 00:23:40.060

need some attention and there are some who get attention that shouldn't get attention, but that's neither here nor there. That's why there's a dow on the radio too away from it. So, is that in a sense that when you first started, did you think of it

00:23:40.069 - 00:23:56.150

as an avenue to kind of promote music that people weren't hearing? I, I would, I would say that, but that's what was sort of been the, well, I guess, wasn't like that at first, but I mean, that's the mission of it now is that, you know,

00:23:56.160 - 00:24:13.430

music, it's not out there, you know, or not getting enough, enough play. But, yeah, that's sort of what I had in mind, you know, the stuff wasn't getting played and I felt it should. And so that's, that's what I did. Ok. Um, you would also do

00:24:13.439 - 00:24:30.339

interviews on the show and have people come in and play? When did you start doing that? Like, I, I don't know, I, I thought about that the other day. I have no idea. I was doing interviews with people before I was doing the show like cocky,

00:24:30.349 - 00:24:46.170

I do that. And, um, when he came to town and there's, I think there's some other people there, there was an interview with Warren Savan somewhere before I started chicken skin, but that wouldn't have fit in. But, uh, with chicken skin, although at the end it

00:24:46.180 - 00:25:09.599

would have, but not at the beginning. But, uh, I, I don't know when I started, uh, maybe, I don't know, I'd have, you know, somebody asked me if they could come on, they could come on and we used to have the pub right next door. And

00:25:09.609 - 00:25:20.180

so there'd be bands in the pub or, or sometimes like Dana Cooper. I know one time came in, I think that's the first time I had him on the shows he was playing in the pub. So he came in and we talked and that was in

00:25:20.189 - 00:25:45.189

the DC three time frame. Um Preston Reed, he uh called me up once and asked about playing in town. And so I put him in touch with Tim over at Anderson Fair and then he ended up coming in, playing, playing with playing the Fair, but also

00:25:45.199 - 00:26:02.359

ended up staying with us because it was a last minute type deal. And it was like Wednesday before Thanksgiving. That was when the show was on Wednesday. And, uh, you know, so just, uh, but he played it, did a little set on the station and then

00:26:02.369 - 00:26:25.969

he went and played the Bears. That was sort of like, probably overkill for him. But, uh, uh, who else? Um Roy Bookbinder one time he was coming and Gary Cooper, who did shepherds say over at KPFD, there used to be a lot of more communication, I

00:26:25.979 - 00:26:39.900

think between some of these stations and there than there are now than there is now. And, uh, in Vancouver was on more or less the same time. I was, that was when the show was on Tuesday. So I had a chance to move it to Wednesday.

00:26:39.910 - 00:26:51.819

So I did, so we wouldn't be competing with each other. His show was more British Isles or was British Isles. But I played that stuff too and it was sort of like, you know, this is there two chances to hear this type of stuff. Why are

00:26:51.829 - 00:27:09.339

we on at the same time? And, um, so he was promo, he had brought Roy Boothby in to play, uh Rockefellers. And so he had, uh, asked me if I'd have mine and I did, and Roy ended up doing this whole show. Essentially. He was on

00:27:09.349 - 00:27:23.810

for like an hour and a half or so. He did like two sets and it was like, really interesting. And so I went to see him the next night and they had this group opening for the Band of Gecko. So that's how I started talking to

00:27:23.819 - 00:27:39.390

them and would have, then I think I saw him again the same week I think opening for a Nancy Griffith at Anderson fair. But they used to come down a lot. They were real nice and they, and, and they helped a lot of people out too.

00:27:39.400 - 00:27:58.140

They bring, they, they would bring Blaze Foley into place sometimes to open up for him and they bring Hudson and Frankie. Yeah, and Denise Frankie and Doug Hudson in to play. And, uh, so they did a lot for those, those people and between them and Gary

00:27:58.150 - 00:28:15.229

Cooper and his group Shepherds, hey, they used to do a thing on Sunday where they bring in youngs songwriters and stuff and at the end of the summer they pick the four best or whatever. And, uh, and so, and Sean Walters was involved in that too.

00:28:15.239 - 00:28:29.500

And sort of interesting because Kimberly mccarver was one of the ones that they had that they considered to be really good. And she ended up doing some stuff. I haven't heard much from her lately and she put out at least three C DS and, uh, Teresa

00:28:29.510 - 00:28:42.609

Colo who had a show at KPFT for a while. She ended up with at least one CD. The Bent went rockers that don't know, whatever happened to them. I think they're more or less gone. By the time there was a group with a guy named Larry

00:28:42.619 - 00:29:03.380

Dry, but by the time that that set was over, so, so kind of looking back over chicken skin music. What were some of the favorite shows that kind of stand out to you? Ones that were surprising or kind of special to you in a way not

00:29:03.390 - 00:29:20.449

to discredit any others. No, no, no. Well, the, the Bookbinder for sure, uh, was another one that once again, Gary Cooper is an Haman and her husband. I think Charlie, I'm not sure if that was his name or not, I think. Yeah, I think it is.

00:29:20.780 - 00:29:37.479

But they, uh, they're a husband and wife team and she played Celtic harp just gorgeously and they, they did a lot of explanation of the songs and stuff. It was more of a class type show. That's the stuff I really, really liked was the ones where

00:29:37.489 - 00:29:56.869

people came down and really explain things about what they're playing and what they're doing and, and, and stuff Bookbinder was the same way. Uh Lyle was nice. And, uh, that was once again because of the geckos. Well, also Eric Taylor, because Eric Taylor had told me

00:29:56.880 - 00:30:08.880

I really should see, love it if I ever got a chance. And the geckos gave me their schedule and I read it wrong and thought they were in Brian and my brother was living in Brian and I said, let's go. We're gonna come up and see

00:30:08.890 - 00:30:24.270

you guys this weekend and we know if you go see this group, it's real good. It turned out it was the wrong weekend and it was the place that Lyle ran and Lyle was playing. And so I said, oh, Eric Taylor. And, uh I said, if

00:30:24.280 - 00:30:38.760

you're ever in Houston, I'd be happy to have you on the show and came down a couple of weeks later and did the show. That was real nice. Um Edward Collins, I think that may have been, I don't remember if it was a in studio or

00:30:38.770 - 00:30:58.660

phone interview, but that was real nice. I like that. Um The gecko were always fun to have on, oh, because they always had all sorts of stuff. We did a, I think an all live show one time for like the fifth anniversary and I forget who

00:30:58.670 - 00:31:30.709

was on it, but I think they were on it. Maybe, maybe the bricks and Janice Ruben and Mike Mandrell. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that one. Um, oh, Kimmy Rhodes. That was real nice. She and Joe Gracie. Came down and, and I met Joe years ago when

00:31:30.719 - 00:31:45.800

I used to like, go up to Austin to, to, uh, Susan Jarrett had this company called Austin record distributors and she handled a lot of the small independent releases. So set an appointment to go up there one day and meet with her and see if I

00:31:45.810 - 00:32:01.400

could because we used to have to go track down these records to find them and something came up. Her kid was sick and she couldn't. So she sent over Bobby Earl Smith and, uh, Joe Gracie to be there when I got there. So I start, didn't

00:32:01.410 - 00:32:18.859

realize Bobby had been in, uh, feeding the fire dogs and they had really impressed me when I saw them and, uh, I've been wanting to, to get something by them. She said, well, we have just one copy left and I'll give it to you. And, um,

00:32:21.290 - 00:32:38.329

yeah, they, they're the ones who turned me on to Jimmy Dale Gilmore and the Flat Landers and that stuff. But, uh, Joe had been a DJ at Coke in Austin, which was like the first progressive country station up there, I believe. And he had lost his

00:32:38.339 - 00:32:52.069

voice due to cancer or whatever. So he always had his little, it's a little magic pad where he'd write on it and then he'd flip it up and write something else on. It was just great, you know, just, he's just a real nice guy to talk

00:32:52.079 - 00:33:17.300

to, and, and, and Bobby, you know, kept in, touch him on and all through the years and, uh, he's also done some really good, interesting stuff now but he stopped being a lawyer. I hope he starts playing more. So, while you started doing, um, chicken skin

00:33:17.310 - 00:33:36.959

music. Did you start attending more shows locally? Yeah, I think, I, well, I think by that time I was already a little bit better financially. So I, I was going to, you know, regular concerts and, and, and, and, and more shows, um, going back to the

00:33:36.969 - 00:33:56.030

restaurant and this is sort of the second chapter of my life, I guess, in a sense. Um, and, uh, I set on and my wife, my future wife at that time came running and she worked next door from, from me and she came running over to

00:33:56.040 - 00:34:10.459

tell me you have, do you have? I said, ok, they're playing and I, oh, I love this song, you know, they're playing Society's Child and, you know, so that was really, I mean, that's when we, I started realizing that, you know, there was something going on

00:34:10.469 - 00:34:32.419

here. We both had similar tastes and, uh, but so I went, I got tickets to go see Janice and, and Tom waits in the music hall. That really, that show was just something else. And this is weights when he was just starting out. It was just

00:34:32.429 - 00:34:53.839

incredible. Gordon Lightfoot. I saw him at the music hall. Too. That was another one that I said he was just, this is about the time of, uh, sit down Young Stranger or whatever that, that song about that, that era. Uh, don I think is probably the

00:34:53.849 - 00:35:08.340

album or what, I don't know if that's the name of the album but that was on there about that time period. So I'd go to some there and, uh, and then the country stuff would start to was a progressive country scare or whatever was coming out.

00:35:08.350 - 00:35:30.719

And I remember, you know, going to see and people like that. But, yeah, Liberty Hall and more, and then Anderson Fair start Anderson Fair was more a deal with my wife. Uh, she had known Richard Dobson was a good friend of her brothers and my wife's,

00:35:30.729 - 00:35:48.600

my first date was what concert that I used to do things with the pub. We'd have concerts and it was one that I had put together when I was doing the restaurant bit still. And with these guys who came into the restaurant a lot, Mark Towns

00:35:48.629 - 00:36:12.689

and, uh, Rick, uh, Morgan and, uh, Lindsey Pollard and they had sort of an avant garde Middle Eastern Asian, you know, field of, er, sort of jazz type feel. A lot of percussion and stuff and guitar and string instruments and stuff. It's really neat. So we

00:36:12.699 - 00:36:25.290

had them and we broadcast that from the pub and that was my wife's and my first date and she said, well, if this friend of ours is playing at Anderson Fair next week, you should go to that. So we went to see Richard and I think

00:36:25.300 - 00:36:41.229

after that I started going there a lot more often. What was the scene like at the time? I, you know, I, I was just going and watching the show and leaving. So I didn't, you know, hang out with anybody much. I remember talking to Eric Taylor

00:36:41.239 - 00:37:01.600

once or twice because, you know, it's, you know, I really, and you know, from there, you know, Nancy Griffith and people like that, then I started becoming really interested in stuff at Anderson Fairies. These, these were really good people. Those guys weren't getting played on the

00:37:01.610 - 00:37:23.239

radio. Then, you know, they were just Eric's album came out about probably a little bit later and then Nancy's album, um, Feather Bed also came out about that time that sir, who else? Don Sanders? I was also listening to Don Sanders. I've gone out and bought

00:37:23.250 - 00:37:39.760

his album. That's probably the first local thing I bought was one of his one sided albums or something. And, uh, and I, I liked him a lot. He was real good and he, he had that radio show and I catch out from time to time and

00:37:39.770 - 00:37:56.459

I saw him at the fair once or twice. But, you know, we, I was not, not having a car. I was, you know, anywhere I went, I had to walk or ride the bus. So, you know, it was, yeah, from Richmond and Shepherd sent you to

00:37:56.469 - 00:38:16.409

Anderson Ferris a long walk. So, unless we had somebody go with us, you know, he just didn't, didn't, you know, go out that much. Right. Did you end up going to any of the other clubs at the time? I went to, oh, what you, what was

00:38:16.419 - 00:38:34.469

the one you just said? The Theodore? Yeah, I went to Theodore's once or twice. There's smoking pits would play there and they were over there in West, I believe, and Cory is, I believe where I saw and might be where there. I have a recording of

00:38:34.479 - 00:38:58.449

this somewhere too of uh Butch and Jimmy Dale together that may have come from there. Uh Blaze would play there and that's probably about it. I mentioned Sand Mountain earlier, the New Sand Mountain, Miss the Family hand and that stuff. Totally. How was, what was Blace

00:38:58.459 - 00:39:17.790

Foley like as a performer? He was great. He was just, I mean, he's, he, he's been one of my favorites from, from when I first saw him. You know, he just really, just the last time I saw him was probably shortly before he got killed and

00:39:17.800 - 00:39:33.439

he was doing a CD release thing at the Austin Outhouse and uh or sorry, cassette tape recording the Austin How? And II I went by there and caught the end of it. I was helping a friend move at that, that weekend and I managed to catch

00:39:33.449 - 00:39:57.300

the last, last minute of it. It was pretty good. Do you have other favorites in Houston that you like to see? No, not, not so much. I mean, men don, um, the, the, I think the people I like people I started seeing at the fair who

00:39:57.310 - 00:40:14.649

would come in from Austin, more like the Hudson and Frankie and, and Jane Gilman and Stephanie Beardsley. Uh, Beardsley. I, I don't quite remember what her last name is, but they were real good. And I, you know, I remember sometimes we'd go over and record them

00:40:14.659 - 00:40:33.649

on Sundays at Sunday afternoon or Jane and Stephanie's case one time and I don't know whose apartment was, I think it's probably Jane's future husband or something. And, um, you know, Sunday morning after I did my show at Kuhf, I, they have a real in my

00:40:33.659 - 00:40:51.919

car. I come on, hang it over and came over there and recorded them. Some things have recorded at our house like the Smiths Sisters are coming into town and, uh, record companies are real good about the, the small labels I should say, the ones like Flying

00:40:51.929 - 00:41:09.610

Fish and Alligator and, uh Rounder are real good. Rounder. I mean, Flying Fish and Alligator are more about trying to get people in touch with you to, to do live stuff or do interviews and stuff. And I did that whenever I could, you know, and for

00:41:09.620 - 00:41:25.919

a while I was recording things at Anderson Fair with the, with the Atari and drag it down there and set it up in one of the rooms and record the stuff. So, yeah. Can you talk a little bit about recording those live shows? What else? Essentially,

00:41:25.929 - 00:41:39.550

depending on where it was, the stuff that I did at home or whatever was totally different. You know, we got two mics but from the fair at the fair, Tim usually have, we have a, we had a room set up that I could sit in and

00:41:39.560 - 00:41:53.429

we had the lines from there and I could plug them in and, and mess with it a little bit. I wouldn't have to do too much tweaking, but essentially it would be a live feed and I have to just the volume a little bit. Um, the

00:41:53.439 - 00:42:15.719

broadcast, we did a couple of live shows from Anderson Fair. Uh, Preston Reed being, I think the first one and then, uh, Tom Russell and Nancy Griffith being the second one and those were done with the, everything being set up. Uh, essentially what is now in

00:42:15.729 - 00:42:32.959

what is essentially now backstage. Um, we'd have a, the real reel and a little board maybe there or something to tweak things and then we'd run the cable up to the roof and have the Marty up there. We didn't choose full lines. We used, we had

00:42:32.969 - 00:42:50.729

a Maria, the radio transmitter thing and we'd have one on top of Sid Rich and the other one there and we'd have to line them up and, you know, I didn't have, I didn't do that. It's usually Stan Barber or Michael or Bat and people like

00:42:50.739 - 00:43:10.889

that would set that up and I'd worry about the real to real stuff and things like that. Yeah. There's that Tom Russell, Nancy Griffith, the Tom Russell has survived and not the Nancy Griffiths. Nancy Griffiths is in the garage. Ok. Or in the box. It's actually

00:43:10.899 - 00:43:28.820

in the box that you're getting. And so to have a bad word in it. Mm. I cannot remember. Yeah, there was something funny that happened there, like he tossed it in as a joke at the end of it or something, or at the beginning of the

00:43:28.830 - 00:43:42.459

second set? Oh, now that we're not recorded, you didn't know that we were still brought against him. But that band was, that was, that may have, I think that was probably just a dual, I don't think Fats Kaplan was with him on that tour. He was

00:43:42.469 - 00:44:03.050

with them on one or they had the three of them. But that's somebody that Anderson Fair really helped. I think a lot. That was Tom Russell. And then once you got big it's like, oh, no, I'm at the duck, you know. And, um, so kind of

00:44:03.340 - 00:44:19.919

doing both the live shows and, um, doing chicken skin. What kind of, what did, what did you end up kind of learning about Houston folk while you folk music, while you were doing, I just learned that there's a lot of good people out there and, and

00:44:19.929 - 00:44:36.080

then, and then, and not necessarily, and not now. And I'm not reflecting on people now, but back then people didn't, weren't able to sit there and set up their home studio and record a CD and put it out, you know, and burn them themselves before gigs

00:44:36.090 - 00:44:51.479

like they can now. Um, so there are a lot of people who I think never got recorded that that should have been recorded and, and, and, uh, I mean, you'd be, listen to them, why aren't you doing anything? You know, why isn't this out there? And

00:44:51.489 - 00:45:05.969

it's, that's the thing that's always sort of bothered me about, you know, back then. What's that? You know, there's a lot of good music that never ended up anywhere, you know, I, I, I'm glad that Lomax went around and did what they did and, and I

00:45:05.979 - 00:45:21.770

forget the lady's name in Wisconsin that did the same thing with a lot of his stuff up in Wisconsin. Uh, a lot of, there's a lot of stuff from my mother's hometown, Rice Lake that, uh, it was recorded Helen Strain Thomas, I think is her name.

00:45:22.179 - 00:45:37.090

Uh, in fact, uh Rounder put out a CD that folk music from Wisconsin or something. It was, that was really neat. And there are people that, you know, I showed it to my mother at one point. Oh, I know her. I know, you know, like the,

00:45:37.959 - 00:45:56.159

and people like that up there, it's just, uh, and there's stuff like that over the country but of course we're talking Houston. So I'm, but, um, you know, there's just a lot of stuff that never got recorded and stuff, you know, just, and, I mean, the

00:45:56.169 - 00:46:08.649

blue stuff, I mean, like, I got so excited when I came down here and found out Lightnin Hopkins lived here and I got to see him a couple of times that just made my, because he was one of the guys I really, really liked up there

00:46:08.719 - 00:46:30.350

and, uh, and saw John Lee Hooker at Liberty Hall. That's another one, you know, and, uh, big Mama Thornton, you know, it's, it's a shame that some of these places don't exist anymore. Or maybe it's, maybe it's a good thing because the fire codes, you know,

00:46:30.360 - 00:46:48.389

some of the rooms that we hear music in, you know, and anywhere like up in Austin, even the broken folk, I mean, heaven forbid there's ever a fire there, you know, it's, uh, you know, but you can't be, it. It's the problem with, I think house

00:46:48.399 - 00:47:00.969

concerts might be the next, I mean, they're probably getting, there's a lot of house concerts now. We may have been beginning to think we're getting near the end of that era again, all the different phases we go through because a lot of people who did house

00:47:00.979 - 00:47:13.540

concerts have stopped doing them. They used to be, you know, house concerts all over the place. But those sort of remind me of the old rent parties that you'd, you'd have, you'd have a party and maybe somebody playing and toss a few dollars and they help

00:47:13.550 - 00:47:37.520

pay the rent. So, if you, who do you think of as somebody that you wish, um, could have gotten a little bit more, um, who could have been recorded? That wasn't from the Houston scene, gotten a little bit more, uh, focus placed on them. Sean Walters.

00:47:38.260 - 00:47:54.379

I, I really wish that something would have happened with him because he is, he is so good and, and I guess with the Louver he's done that thing. Rex is somebody else. Rex Bell. I mean, you know, just the amount of talent is just, you know,

00:47:54.389 - 00:48:09.830

it's just there, you know, but I, I don't know, you know, I would have liked to have seen the Bentwood Rockers do something, you know, or, or for that matter, the bricks, the geckos did C DS on their own. But, you know, I think that they

00:48:09.840 - 00:48:23.840

could have, I mean, it would have been nice to see something get out there on a major label, you know, Denise Frankie by all means. I mean, you know, she's got three independent C DS but I mean, or, or her and Doug, I mean, they were

00:48:23.850 - 00:48:47.540

just the best as far as I'm concerned and, and yeah, they had the one album when they were in uh Beacon Street Union. But that again is a homemade album. Same thing. The only one Kimberly, I, not Kimberly, um, Jane Gilman and I don't know, I

00:48:47.550 - 00:49:02.050

guess Stephanie, I don't know if she was still in the band or what she was in that band or not. But, uh, Eagle Bone Whistle, which John Hagan who plays with Lyle came out of they, now they were on vinyl or let's, I forget which one,

00:49:02.159 - 00:49:18.629

but it's one of the Rounder group and that album is really good. And II, I wish that they could have gotten some more nationwide, you know, stuff. But, you know, a lot of these, you know, you've got the stuff in one area that's real good and

00:49:18.800 - 00:49:40.939

it, sometimes it just doesn't reach that breakout. Same thing with Northern Minnesota. There's a lot of good people out there but just never, you know, we have to, the exposure they needed. So, who were you not surprised that ended up getting more exposure? Well, Lyle, obviously,

00:49:41.760 - 00:50:13.270

um, a Nancy Eric, I'm glad he, he got some stuff out nationwide. So, I was real happy about that because he's, he's another one of a really talented people. He and Nancy both. And, uh, I'm trying to think those are the, the ones are really, didn't

00:50:13.280 - 00:50:34.590

really surprise me at all, you know, the blues guys. They don't, you know, they all sort of made it, I mean, in a sense, I mean, you know, it seems like there might be, it might be easier that I could be completely wrong. But, you know,

00:50:34.600 - 00:50:52.860

if you're somebody who plays, if, if you are adept at playing the guitar that you could probably play in a different variety of bands, even if it, but as a singer songwriter sometimes you're just kind of, it's you by yourself. So you don't know. It, it's

00:50:52.870 - 00:51:12.010

interesting because sometimes people, it's interesting seeing people solo and, and with a band and, like, well, slate when he plays solo or when he's got a full blown band, like he did for the Broke Down tour. I mean, it was entirely different. It was, it was

00:51:12.020 - 00:51:28.810

still really good. Both were really good but they were a different, you know, feel to it, different vibe or whatever. Uh, there are a lot of good instrumental people that, uh, I just love hearing with other people, you know, when they, when, when they're good by

00:51:28.820 - 00:51:48.379

themselves but they sit in with somebody else who gives it a, gives them another chance to go in a different direction sometimes, sort of that way of jazz a lot, you know. Yeah, you can move around from group to group. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so what other,

00:51:48.389 - 00:52:07.090

um, DJ work have you done beyond? You did the, and, and, and, uh, still do a show on Brian and I'm still, I I still need to do some more things at K true. Start subbing some and, uh, told I can do chicken skin whenever I

00:52:07.100 - 00:52:28.830

want. I'm probably gonna do it. My son's going to sub, I think a couple of times this summer and I'll probably do that to, uh, at the beginning of the summer before September comes and to the Great White North. Um, I'm sorry, what was I saying?

00:52:29.219 - 00:52:43.739

Um, I was just kind of ask, oh, besides I, I do a show in Brian still once a month and it's like bluegrass folk blues, just like Chicken Skin called Random Roots. And I do it once a month. So that's something I can still continue to

00:52:43.750 - 00:53:06.500

do. Um, even if I have to mail, then I may, I may, I'm probably gonna be doing that. Um, I did a few subs at KPFT, but that was it. That's essentially the just Kuhf or essentially jazz. And I did the big band show there for

00:53:06.510 - 00:53:25.760

a long time. Uh, I did the blue show in for a while just to keep it alive. And I really enjoyed doing it and, you know, but the time started to get moved to its way past my bedtime. I just can't do that. There's just so

00:53:25.770 - 00:53:47.489

much music out there. It's, that's the whole problem and I hope to get caught up listening to some of it now because I, it, yeah, I went to Minneapolis to start this weekend. And then picked up four C DS. So, it's like, so, since you've been

00:53:47.500 - 00:54:09.300

doing DJ work since the late seventies, mid seventies, actually, what has changed? Can you talk about just that kind of change that process over time? How, how it changed for one thing? The language thing is I think, gotten more strict. Yeah. Well, it sort of went

00:54:09.310 - 00:54:29.520

through a period where you could get by with certain songs and now you can't. Uh, but that, that's, and I understand that, but it's a shame some of the stuff that you, you, you can't play, you frown on double and tores. Um, but the just the

00:54:29.530 - 00:54:44.139

method of playing things, I mean, now, and like, you know, it used to be all vinyl and I remember when C Ds came out, she got excited. We've got five C Ds at the station. I get to play the CD and it came true. We, we

00:54:44.149 - 00:55:00.379

had the, what we play used to play C DS with was a Walkman for Disc, man, I guess it was, and somebody stole that at one point. So we didn't have that for a while. But now, you know, vinyl's coming back, I guess, but it's just,

00:55:00.389 - 00:55:20.399

it's entirely different, you know, I, I think in a sense, some of the things are harder to do with C DS than they were with, with vinyl. That's my viewpoint. I mean, queuing is, yeah, it's a real tight queue. But if you want to, I don't

00:55:20.409 - 00:55:35.870

know if you want, you know, especially with live cuts, it's a real pain because if you want to do like a cross on a CD, if it's a live thing, you good at it. That's it. You know. You know, the continuing clapping starts the next cut.

00:55:35.879 - 00:55:49.750

You know, and if you want to fade it down while you're bringing up something else, you can C DS are also, I think in a sense, you know, when you put one in the deck, you know, the one, you, the one that's on the bottom is

00:55:49.760 - 00:56:09.060

the one that plays, you know. Yeah, I'm one of these people who, when, when I, some, I, I know some DJ s who have, they have everything planned out and I may have things fairly well, fair, fairly planned out. But yeah, I may have the C

00:56:09.070 - 00:56:26.030

DS that I'm gonna play. But if I have 50 C Ds with me, I may play 20 of them, but I may not even know what cuts I'm going to play and sometimes you're playing something that reminds you of something else. And with C DS, it's

00:56:26.040 - 00:56:39.919

a lot harder to do a quick pop it in and, and queue it up. I know you could do it a lot faster. You could, if you were doing it all the time, you could drop that needle on the track beginning of a track real easily.

00:56:41.250 - 00:56:53.229

So, can you describe that process? Of, of how the C DS organized. I can't really imagine what that's, you drop them in. No, no, it's. No, no, no, I'm just saying with the CD, you have, you know, you open the deck and you put it in

00:56:53.239 - 00:57:09.639

there. But if you're in a hurry and you failed to take the CD outfits underneath it, anybody would ever do that. No, not that. And then, you know, and you can't tell if you forget what's in what deck, which, you know, in my case, I'm going

00:57:09.649 - 00:57:29.919

90 miles an hour. Um, you know, in, in my case I'd be putting, usually I'd be putting my playlist into my laptop for posting the folk D JJ and sending the record companies and then you're also putting into the station computer for going out to record

00:57:29.929 - 00:57:44.110

companies. I mean, for the streaming thing, what is that? So going out to record companies, can you just, what, what do you mean? I mean, no, I mean, for the streaming purposes is what the station computer does. It tells how many, what was playing at, what

00:57:44.120 - 00:57:59.719

time and then they can tell how many people were listening. And I guess he get that, I, my playlist, I would send the playlist out to record companies and stuff so that they would know, you know, but they're getting played or in some case artists that

00:57:59.729 - 00:58:14.760

are, you know, you know, that do their own promotion and, uh, and that's what was nice about folk DJ s because it was still nice about it. But is that the, you know, the artist can see who's playing them and who's, you know, not playing them.

00:58:14.770 - 00:58:28.949

It's easy to set up a filter. I did that for a while for couple of friends of mine that lives, you know, trying to help. I don't know who was playing them and what station. So if they want to tell something to them, they could, I

00:58:28.959 - 00:58:47.280

would save them that problem. Ok. But, um, you know, and you, you also hear, you know, people say something's really good. You ought to check this out. You know, because you, you don't have time to listen to everything. Sometimes, you know, you look at the CD

00:58:47.290 - 00:59:04.790

and I cover my turn you in a different direction and I'll set this one aside for later. One of the ones my wife rescued was Cheryl Wheeler's first album or first one on. But, you know, just, and I had a picture of her in all these

00:59:04.800 - 00:59:18.719

drawings and stuff like remove this, remove this. And, you know, it's like how to fix it up and touch it up and Photoshop it. This is what needs to be done except it's a plain picture. And so once you listen to Cheryl Wheeler, you think that's

00:59:18.729 - 00:59:36.419

the funniest thing in the world that when you first look at it, what is this stuff? And then, yeah, sometimes the cover art just turns you off, you know. And, uh, but somebody says it's really good. Well, then I'll try it, you know. And sometimes I

00:59:36.429 - 00:59:59.699

think, I don't know. I just, so do you, um, with kind of the changes in the past few years with the rise of streaming, do you see any changes for the artists? I, I don't know, as far as the artists go for, for me, it irritates

00:59:59.709 - 01:00:07.909

the living daylights out of me. Yeah. It's nice to be able to sit here and listen to the station in Grand Rapids if I want to. It's nice to be able to listen to this, you know, my wife to be able to listen to me and

01:00:07.919 - 01:00:24.830

Brian or when we were HD and didn't have an HD tuner at home. She could listen to me on the computer. Uh, your family and friends can listen or, you know, if you find a station somewhere you like to listen to, you can stream. But also

01:00:25.889 - 01:00:44.500

when certain things happen, like, for instance, you know, Bob Dylan turning 60 people say, you know, this guy, we can do a whole show of his music. We ought to do it. You can't do that anymore. Um, you, you, you know, you're limited to how many

01:00:44.510 - 01:01:01.149

tracks per hour from a box set or whatever that you can play because of the streaming thing because, but I think it's the record companies are afraid that people will tape, you know, digitally download it and not buy the stuff because they can get it all

01:01:01.159 - 01:01:22.560

on the thing. There's something to be said from that viewpoint. But, ok, so, ok, so you can't, if, if your radio program is being streamed, you cannot, um, play too many songss from one art, two cuts from, uh, from a recording in an hour or three

01:01:22.570 - 01:01:42.090

from a recording or box set in two hours. And it also goes from artists and no more than two in a row. Uh, I think it's a basic 100 thing of it now. Oh, wow. So if, let's say that someone is in the studio with you

01:01:42.340 - 01:02:05.100

and they're playing live, it's entirely different if it's, if it's, uh palu and he did a do it yourself. CD at home and burned it himself. And he says you can play this as much as you want, then you can, because he owns the recordings who

01:02:05.270 - 01:02:22.520

owns the recording, the, uh, if it's a least recording and this came up recently, now you, once again, you have to own the recording. Like a lot of like a, there's a lot of independent artists, I guess who will, you know, label, put it out but

01:02:22.530 - 01:02:39.409

they don't buy the recording, they lease it from them. They can put this out for two years or something like that. Yeah. Uh And then they can renegotiate it or whatever. In that case, a record company can't give you permission to, to play as much as

01:02:39.419 - 01:02:54.100

you want from, it has this kind of restricted your ability to promote certain artists. Yeah, I would say it, it, it, it does, you know, somebody comes out with the new CD sometimes and that's probably the reason they do it. But like, if you have somebody

01:02:54.110 - 01:03:08.439

to come in town who's not been here for a while, it's, it's nice to be able to play stuff by them, you know. You know, 11, especially these days where I think people are getting away from radio. I think a lot of it's going to, you

01:03:08.449 - 01:03:27.550

know, Spotify and Pandora and stuff like that. Um, you know, and, and my wife says, you know, you know, at work I can put in, like, slight cleaves and similar artists or something and, you know, you can make your own little radio station just pull in

01:03:28.219 - 01:03:46.790

people that are similar to that and play it, you know. Uh, yeah, she don't have a radio on that, you know. So I think, I think radios is probably lessening some and, you know, used to be, people would listen their cars all the time and at

01:03:46.800 - 01:04:06.110

home now it's more cars, I think. And not too many people listen at home. I don't think, I, I don't know, it's, I'd like to see the demographics on that. I think it's lessening. Yeah. I mean, there's, and there's also satellite radio. Yeah. Yeah. What are

01:04:06.120 - 01:04:25.149

your opinions on that? I, you know, I got, I heads, I think I will say I had XM. Not sure if I had serious. Whichever one Dylan had his radio show on. I think it was XM before they merged and, and I enjoyed some of that

01:04:25.159 - 01:04:41.909

stuff, but I got tired of it after a while. But it's interesting. I, my dad one time and I could put it on forties or fifties and in our forties and he liked that, you know, but my dad had diverse tastes anyway when he was, you

01:04:41.919 - 01:05:06.169

know, but it would be nice for him. You know, like when we went to his Battleship reunion, I think I had it on for stuff and stuff like this for driving to Alabama. Um, so if you look back over kind of Houston specifically, what changes have

01:05:06.179 - 01:05:29.699

you seen seen with the, um, with, within Houston folk music? Like, starting in the, starting in the seventies or probably mid seventies when you started DJ? I, you know, there used to be, I think there used to be a, a lot more people out there and

01:05:29.709 - 01:05:45.939

now part of this is, I don't yell out much anymore. So I'm not that I know like how I forget the name of the place it is, but there's a place out off of highway six, it's got music and I, I've never been out there. Well,

01:05:45.949 - 01:06:02.000

I've got a friend who sits out there and sits in sometimes and, and I see there, you know, I've seen schedules from time to time so, like, there's probably a lot more people out there. I mean, there are a lot of new people out there that

01:06:02.010 - 01:06:15.500

I don't know about. Um, a but there used, seems to me there used to be a lot. I mean, Anderson ferry used to be able to have people, you know, four or five nights a week and it'd be different people every night and they'd all be

01:06:15.510 - 01:06:35.489

local. I don't see that happening anymore. Now, granted, they're not open every night. Uh I, I know the ducks open every night. I'm not sure how, since I don't really go out much anymore, I don't really look at the schedules that much. So they may very

01:06:35.500 - 01:06:50.110

well be that same type of thing. But if you look at and you go back, you've got Bill and Lucille Cade, you've got Vince Bell at the same time. You've got John Gramado who isn't, that's another guy who should have really done something. I mean, he's

01:06:50.120 - 01:07:09.419

one of the best guitar players I've ever heard. And uh he's on one of Eric's albums, maybe two. He's on one of Lucinda's albums. He is and maybe Nancy's, he's just one of the best guitar players and he's just a house painter there in Rockford these

01:07:09.429 - 01:07:33.129

days. And um uh I'm starting to think, I'm, I'm losing names, you know, I see the thing. Of course, John Van, who we talked about earlier, uh, when we weren't recording, he, you know, uh, Shake and Dana, you know, either Shake by themselves by himself or

01:07:33.139 - 01:07:55.780

Dana by themselves or Shake and Dana together. Shake had a real big following down here and still probably does. I think he still does pretty well. Tim says he always, but at one time he had Rockefellers and he had women going nuts in the audience and,

01:07:57.350 - 01:08:23.839

and, uh, yeah, I just, uh Re Smith Bruce Mcelheney, you know, there, there were tons of people down here that, you know, like I say, I usually I can remember everything but today I'm not, that's OK. Um So what do you think there was such a

01:08:23.850 - 01:08:47.580

concentration of talent? What, what do you think happened? I, I don't, I think in some case, oh, and uh Steven Francy, Steve Gerrard and Francy Files. Uh Dog Tooth Violet. See, now I'm starting to go again. Uh but II, I, in some cases, people this sounds

01:08:47.589 - 01:09:07.870

bad but they grew up in, started having families and couldn't make a living at it, you know, I mean, it's, I don't know how anybody does it, you know? I mean, there's some real good people who just can't afford to do stuff anymore, you know? And

01:09:07.879 - 01:09:28.539

uh it's ii I think that's got a lot to do with it, you know. That's why I'm saying there's probably a bunch of young people out there. I went, when I went out to uh Mil Coffee House and I saw Miss Brownie which is Mary Catherine

01:09:28.548 - 01:09:43.200

Reynolds who used to be around Austin and Louise Goldberg. And they had some local person who never performed in public before playing with somebody. I'm not just saying and yeah, she, she, I don't think she did the original stuff that she did, but her voice was

01:09:43.209 - 01:09:57.120

really good. She did a cranberries cover that I remember. But I mean, you know, so you've got these people out there but they need the encouragement. They need to have a place they can go and play. Um, open mic nights, I guess are, are I would

01:09:57.129 - 01:10:11.500

say, are probably really good for stuff like that. And then like the fair, they have the, you know, writers in the, or not writers in the round but the, uh you know, Ken and Wayne have everything where they bring in two or three people, you know,

01:10:11.509 - 01:10:28.080

who have to be somewhere in the, sometimes our local people or sometimes their people are coming through and, and are willing to play, you know, for not as much as ignore me yet. And, uh, you know, that, that helps, but I, I don't see that much

01:10:28.089 - 01:10:51.569

of a, the thing out there and this is probably me being old and not being aware of what's going on. Um So now you have, you know, you've walked away from chicken skin in a sense right recently. Um So what are you going to do next.

01:10:54.220 - 01:11:11.299

I don't know. I, I've got, once I retire it's hopefully he's in a few months. So I tend to go back to Minnesota for a while. Spent some of the time up there. Uh, many actually try to figure out if I can play violin again except

01:11:11.310 - 01:11:26.209

now try to play a different instrument instead of violin. Um, just, I don't know, iii, I just want and, and just sit back and be able to listen to music and enjoy it instead of, and I shouldn't say and enjoy it. I mean, I still enjoy

01:11:26.220 - 01:11:40.089

it but, I mean, I can listen to it without trying to figure out if it, I don't have to be watching for words. I could just sit back and instead of going, wait, what do they say? They're coming back? I don't, I don't know, I, I

01:11:40.100 - 01:11:56.060

just wanna enjoy being out of a big city for a change. You know, it's nice that, you know, there's a place up there that has music and like, and they start up one night a week and they, well, they have an open mic night but I've

01:11:56.069 - 01:12:14.229

never been there but, like, they, on Friday night last Friday they started at six and ended around 9 30. Well, that's good hours for me, especially during the summer. I, I don't have to worry about driving at night. I hate driving at night. So it's, yeah,

01:12:15.950 - 01:12:38.759

just relax and let's see what I can do. I don't know. I've got a lot of books to read too. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming and spending your time on a Friday time for a little bit. I enjoyed it. Um, just to

01:12:38.770 - 01:12:58.709

make sure is there anything else that you would like to talk about, or you feel like something that we've skipped over? You know, I, I thought of something at one point but now, of course, I, I don't, I don't remember it, but I think also a

01:12:58.720 - 01:13:14.509

lot of it has to do with the fact that Houston has changed so much. I mean, you've got people from all over the place. It's just huge compared to what it was when I, when I first moved here. II, I don't, I'd be curious, I think

01:13:14.520 - 01:13:41.299

it was probably under a million people back in 73 years or 71 whenever it was that I got down here first concert in Houston, Johnny Winner BB King and Curve dare at Haines Pavilion on Mother's Day 1971 for $3. That is cheap. Yeah, but I, I've

01:13:41.310 - 01:14:05.100

been going through my old liberty hall posters and, and, uh, things like the head white Sun Gus $3 for Jerry Jeff Ler. You know, this is, you know, the price you paid for things back then and then, you know, now it's what Springsteen cost these days,

01:14:05.109 - 01:14:26.959

you know, what did he? No, I couldn't afford to go to Springsteen now that it was probably three or four or five bucks, but you still get your money's worth. Yeah, he doesn't do 45 2, 45 minutes sets. Ok. Which I noticed that some artists are

01:14:26.970 - 01:14:45.640

real good at knowing when 45 minutes is over hungry. Um, all right. Um, well, thank you for coming in. Um, I really appreciate it.