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So, today is November 12th, 2024. My name is Karis Lai, and I'm here today with Daniel Yoo on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice University. [DY: Awesome.] So, we're going to start just from the very beginning.

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Can you please state your full name and where and when you were born? My name is Daniel Jinwoong Yoo. I was born in Columbia, South Carolina on January 3rd, 1988.

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Awesome. And do you know, like, the story behind your name? Well, I come from a whole line of pastors, so my name, Daniel, comes from the Bible. I think in the Korean culture there—you share one of

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the–the–the names because it's usually two parts, right? Jinwoong and then your–your surname. You usually share one with your siblings. So my brothers is Sung Woong, and mine is Jinwoong. So we share the Woong.

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My name means true hero? Yeah. True hero. Why? I don't know. So— Do you feel like you live up to the true hero?

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Yeah. No. Not really. I don't know, I don't know what I live up to. True hero... I don't even know wha—why they would name me that. Yeah, maybe [laughs]. That's the story. And you mentioned you come from a line of pastors.

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So, how far back does that go? So, my brother's a pastor. My brother married a daughter of a pastor. My dad's a pastor. My grandpa on my mom's side is a

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pastor. My uncle and a cousin on my dad's side are pastors. And my uncle on my mom's side is a pastor. So, I think I counted, if I were to be a pastor, I'd be number seven. But I decided to not go with the family business.

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So I am not a pastor [laughs]. That's crazy. I know so many friends who are pastor's kids, but like, that's like beyond— I'm a pastor's everything–everything. [KL: Just surrounded.] Exactly.

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I guess, could you also like—I noticed that you had lived in a couple different places, so, give me the list of, like, everywhere you've lived? All right, so I was born in South Carolina.

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When I was about 3 or 4, I moved to California and then in 1997. So, this was in the summer between third and fourth grade, I moved to Hawaii and actually, I was in Hawaii up until 2016 [interviewee correction: 2018]. So about 20 years of my life,

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all my formative years, elementary, middle school, high school, college was in Hawaii. And then I moved out here to Houston in 2018. So, I've been here about six years, seven years,

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six years–six years. And what, like, was the reason for most of the moving? My dad's church. He was-he was a pastor in South Carolina, which is why we were there when I was born.

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And then he got a church in California. So, we went there, and he got a church in Hawaii and then he went there. He got a church back in California, but I decided to stay. They moved my junior year in college, and so I decided to

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stay because I didn't want to keep moving around. And then they moved to Houston, which is the reason why we moved to Houston afterwards. So, Yeah. So, you've been following them around a little bit? [DY:Yeah.] In college you were

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like, "I just want to stay here." Yeah, pretty much—pretty much. I did not want to go to—because they were moving for a church. I didn't want to be a part of my dad's church, so I wanted to be a part of my own church.

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Want to do my own thing and so, yeah, usually when–when college students get to stay on their own, you know, they get to party and all that stuff, I was just happy because I get to choose my own church [Laughter].

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That's so funny. Can you tell me more about, like, what it was like just growing up as a pastor's kid, I guess from the womb you said you were born, and he's. Pretty much, I was born into the Korean church

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because that's what my dad is, Korean Methodist Church, and it's–it's a—I think as a kid, you know, you just–you just go. It's like, you know, you a place to go.

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Because I was a PK, you know, I had to always be on my best behavior and then people always, you know, like, gave me gifts and treated me well because I'm a pastor's kid, which is, you know, I guess a benefit. But as I grew older, I think I started seeing the

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darker side of church just because, you know you start realizing how much politics are in the church in and of itself and especially in the Korean church, when you start kind of seeing that position and stature and your outward appearance is kind of your—it's

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kind of like the thing in, in Korean church. So you'll–you'll go to a Korean church and you'll look at the parking lot and it's all Mercedes-Benz, BMW, you know, all these high end cars. And you go to their houses and it's like a one bedroom apartment, you know? So it's

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really like this idea of showing off the best that you are. And I came to really–really dislike that, especially when you start realizing, like you know, people buy their way into–into leadership and eldership and all that stuff, and just the horror stories that my dad has gone through and all

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the–the crap that my dad has gone through is just, you know, I–I, both my brother and I, when we left Hawaii, we both said that we would never be a part of a Korean church again. Which, ironically, right now I am a part of a Korean church,

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but that's a whole nother story. [Laughter]. We'll get to that later. That's pretty crazy. So, did you feel like-like your friendships as a kid growing up were impacted by the fact that you were a pastor's

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kid? Like, were most of your friends also like church friends or did—did you have friend groups more from school? I actually—so the weird thing about my dad's church is the youth group never was ever big.

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I was usually the oldest one, so I never really had church friends until I started going to my brother's church because he—he had a church. His first appointment after college was a Korean church in—or he was a—he was a youth pastor at a Korean church.

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And it was one of the biggest–one of the biggest Methodist churches in Hawaii. Kor–Korean, Methodist churches. And so there was a lot of my age people. And I was like, the very first time I ever had people my age at church.

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So, that was probably the first time I ever had like, church friends. But in general, no, I've always had friends outside. I am, I call myself a social chameleon because I am very extroverted. I like to talk, hence why I'm talking so much.

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So, forgive me if I'm babbling but I used to be the—I'm the guy that, you know, I'd have, like, five friend groups. And when I go to one friend group, when they stop talking or start getting boring, I go to the next friend group and then vice versa, or just constantly just cycling through a

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bunch of friend groups. So, I've never had a problem getting into social circles just because, you know, I kind of invite myself in. Probably not the–not the right thing to do, but hey,

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that's what I am. So. [Laughter]. And I guess, like, I guess that probably served you well. Do you think that's something that, like you developed by moving around so much or something that you just were always kind of born with?

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I was always born with it, but the things that my dad would tell me when we used to live in California, one of the things my dad liked to take me to do is go fishing off of–off of the pier, and my dad told me that I would never go fishing with him to go fishing.

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It would always be to talk with all the people around us. And there are days when my dad has gone fishing without me and all the fishermen are like, "Hey, where's Daniel, where's Daniel," and all that stuff. So, I think it's always been in me to just be a chatterbox and talk to people and whatnot.

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That's great. Do you feel like you're—you said you–you have a brother and that's your only sibling? Yes. Is your brother similar to you or— No. He is the opposite of me. He's an introvert, ironically, that he's a pastor,

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but he's an introvert. and he's, my mom would always say that he's more of the colder type of person. I'm the type of–i'm more of a warmer person.

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but he's a lot, smarter when it comes to, like, academics. H-He likes to write. He's—I mean, he's a pastor, so he's, well, more organized than I am. I'm more of a go with the flow–free flowing type of person.

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So, yeah. So we're–we're pretty much opposites in terms of, our personalities. Is he older or younger? He's older. Okay.

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Gotcha. Gotcha. And I actually think he did one of these, which is he did an interview for this as well. Oh, nice. I'll have to go and watch it then to.

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Compare and contrast. [Laughter]. [KL: like, wow.] Would you say that? Like the personality difference? Like, can you pinpoint where that comes from? Like mom or dad or is it more like separate?

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Mine is for my mom. My mom is the social person more than my dad. So, I'm more like my mom. I look like my mom, too. And my brother is more like my dad. And he looks like my dad, too, so.

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So very 50/50. Yeah-yeah-yeah. How would you describe, like, your parents parenting style? I think the one thing I–I really take from,

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especially from my dad, is my dad is not your typical Asian father. You know, the–the stereotype Asian father is they never say I love you. It's very like they are the breadwinner. They are the ones that they are the hard disciplines.

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You know, the affection does not come from them. My dad is a complete opposite. I still to this day. No, actually, he stopped recently, but he used to up

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until, like, a few years ago. Still say, like, "Do you want me to give you a kiss" and stuff like that? He'll tell me he loves me all the time. Something that really irritates me, but it is endearing is I'll call him and he's like, "Hello?" And I'm like, "What are you doing?" He says, "I'm talking

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to you on the phone." I'm like, "What are you doing? Before that?" He's like, "I was thinking about you." And I was like, "Yeah, I don't need to hear this anymore." So, my father is a very, it's an exception to the Asian father.

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And I think from that, I think all the other Asian stuff is the same. I mean, I got disciplined, I got hit, with anything that they could find, especially my mom. My mom was the main–my mom was the main discipliner, when it came to, like, the small things.

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But my dad, when I–when I got in trouble with my dad, I did something really wrong. And so. But other than those things, my parents, were very affectionate.

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They always, did what they could. I mean, immigrant parents. So, coming to America, they did what they could. But the one thing I do get–take away from their parenting

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style is I've–'ve never felt like I wasn't loved. I think that's the best way to put it. I know to this day, and I think I've known always that I'm loved by my parents. Would they, like, emphasize, like academics a lot,

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or did you feel like they emphasized, I guess, like spiritual formation more? Oh, I think they actually emphasized more academics at first. But not that much. It's not–I'm not like your typical like I had to get A's and everything type of thing,

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but they were the type where, you know, I when I was going to college, I did say, let me go to community college my first two years because it's way cheaper and then go to university. My last two years and they said "No community college looks bad,

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so you're gonna have to go to university". So, in that sense, you know, academics is still high up there, but it wasn't like your tiger mom type of thing. As for spiritual formation, they were

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actually pretty hands-off, actually, now that I think about it. Other than the–the family Bible studies that we have, or after a certain age, my dad stopped hitting me and it became more of Bible study as to what I did wrong.

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And so that was kind of worse. I think I would have rather gotten hit, get, you know, get it over with in ten minutes rather than an hour. So, but yeah, but I think their thing

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is they trusted God to take care of everything. My mom even told me multiple times how, because they were in such a whole new environment. Because they knew nothing about America and whatnot, that they just kind of let me go

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and just prayed that I'd be okay. [Laughter].Is is pretty much what it was. And so and I guess I'm okay.Maybe— [Laughter] That makes sense. So it's kind of like they were like,

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I guess we kind of have like, we don't even know how to navigate. [DY: exactly.] Like, we don't even know what to tell you, I guess from, like, the fact that they were immigrants. Like, did you speak Korean at home or—

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Yeah. So technically my first language is Korean, although my Korean is probably like fourth-grade level. But yeah, I still speak to them in Korean. And I am their official translator.

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So whenever they need something, or call someone, I'm the one that's doing it more than my brother. So. Yeah. [Laughter] And I know you mentioned that your brother was,

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like, always very strong in academics. Like, did you feel like there was ever, like, comparison between the two of you? Let me rephrase that. My brother was never strong at academics, I was smart. I'm a–I'm the–I'm–I'm the better school taker.

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But he is the better. Like when it comes to academic-type stuff like writing and reading. And I guess that's what it is writing. I guess that's–that's what he's much better at– Humanities versus testing.

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Yes. Yeah–yeah–yeah–yeah. I was the better student. I am book smart compared to him, and–and he will attest to that. But yeah. So, we weren't ever really compared.

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He's also eight years older. Seven—eight years older than me. So, we weren't even in school at the same time. He was—he graduated when I hit sixth grade, middle

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school?So. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. So there is big age gap A pretty big gap. Okay. I was wondering too, like, were there certain Korean traditions

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or holidays that you guys would celebrate? We did your traditional, New Year's when New Year's happen. Well, we spent New Year's at church all the time. And so that's where you do the Tteokguk.

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Its a rice cake soup style thing. And then you normally play this Korean game, yutnori, you know, so we did that at the Korean church all the time. What else do we do? Birthdays.

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We do miyeokguk. Seaweed soup. But other than that, we didn't do too many Korean things. Now that I think about it. Yeah–yeah, not too much-not too much.

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When my–when my, when my daughter was born. The tradition is you give the mother, miyeokguk the seaweed soup to–to regain their health, I guess. And so, yeah, my mom did do that.

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She made miyeokguk all the time for my wife, so. But other than that, no, I learned all the traditional Korean things. Well, not traditional, the Korean things from, like, YouTube and stuff like that, and Korean dramas and all that stuff and

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Korean variety shows. Was that like, I guess growing up, did you feel like you would have identified more like Korean or American? Oh, that's the–that's the Asian American question,

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huh? I–I probably would have said I grew up more American than Korean because I don't think my parents really pushed for the Korean side of things, especially, you know, I think, immigrant parents tend to push their kids to the,

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to the culture that they're going to. They want—your child to succeed so that you want to assimilate to–to the–to the culture. So, I never felt my mom or dad pushed me towards the Korean side of things.

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In fact, it's me that's always pushing towards the Korean side. I'm the one that's always asking about, actually, I'm the one that's always asking to move to Korea right now. I keep telling them, let's move to Korea. I just went,

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a couple of months ago, and, I realized that I'd rather be there than here. And so I keep telling my parents, "Let's move." And my parents, like, "We never want to go back to Korea." So-so, yeah, I think I'm more, wanting to be Korean than they want me to be,

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so I don't know. That's so–that's, like, actually so fascinating. Like, what would make you want to move to Korea? Living in Houston for the past eight years.

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Seven years, six years. Makes me want to move to Korea.[laughter]. I'm originally from Hawaii. So, as I said earlier, and so I miss I never–I

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took nature for granted. And so, coming to Houston, it's all flat. No real nature, just concrete jungle. And so when we went to Korea and just being around,

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Korean things because I've come to, especially recently come back to being—wanting or liking the idea of being Korean, I think that's the best way to put it. And so the Korean culture, Things like, I'm–I'm a–I'm a huge cafe guy.

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I love going and get coffee. That's always been my–my wife and I's big thing before we had our kid. And cafe culture in Korea is ridiculous. Like it's a little too much, but I'd rather have too much than less.

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the weather, the-the nature. We went to a place called Busan, and that's where my parents are from. And that's right. By the ocean and right by the mountains. And that is very healthy compared to the concrete

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jungle here. So, but yeah, I think that's just really one of the big things. It's not necessarily I want to move to Korea. Oh, no, it is that I want to move to Korea. But I think it's more of I want to get out of Houston.

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So yeah. Yeah. And if you get out, I mean, why not go to Korea? Exactly–exactly, [KL: I get that.] [Laughter.] Yeah. Yeah, I guess something else.

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I know you touched on this a bit, but I would love to hear more about, like, what your faith journey was like. Being like, seeing, like, what you said, like the dark underside and being very jaded at a certain point, being like, "I'm never going to be at a

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Korean church again." And now you're back. So how did that happen? So, my faith journey is very, interesting. I was always in a part of a Korean church.

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I was always a part of church. Period. Whether by choice or not. And I think I kind of gathered my own faith, probably around my

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junior year in college. I mean, that was the reason why I didn't want to go with my parents, because I wanted my own church. And so I kind of gathered there, and then I ended up getting into a church in Hawaii, which ended up being, more like a cult.

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So, that was fun. And then in 20–2016, everything fell apart. And I think that's when everyone kind of realized that it was a cult. And it–it–it broke a lot of

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people. And I was a part of the–the we call it the "transitional eldership" at the time. So I was one of the leaders to help kind of transition from our old church to kind of the new church. But that also presented a lot of problems because,

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you got a lot of people who hated the church afterwards. And then when you hate the church, you hate everyone associated with it, which is the leadership. And so that was another whole fun ordeal.

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And then in 2018, we decided to move to Hawaii. And then—so we were kind of just trying to find our place again, trying to find church. And then we ended

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up kind of church hopping, being kind of a part of one church and then leaving that because we didn't feel like it was for us. Then we went to another church, and then that leadership was very similar to what I felt like in Hawaii.

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So, I was like, "I am not staying in this." And then the pandemic happened. And so we were without a church and then seeing the church in–in how the church responded to Covid was very, stupid.[laughter].

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I won't mince my words on that. It was just really dumb. And so I became very angry at the church around Covid, which is actually really good because I think what it was was a time to

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actually confront what I went through in Hawaii. I'm the type of person that when something bad happens, I don't like to sit in it.

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There are a couple of my friends. They're the type of people that sit and kind of think through everything that happened and kind of, understand what happened in that, what, 1 or 2 years as they just kind of sit and think through that is not me.

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I'm the type of person that I will run. And then something will hit me in the face and I'll fall and I'll be like, "Oh, that really sucked. Oh, okay. So that's why it sucked. Okay." And then I'll get up and move again and then get

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hit again. So, I'm the type of person that heals as they move. Or–Or I confront things as they come. I don't like to sit and think about all these things. So, I think what–what the pandemic was, is it forced me to have to sit

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and confront all those things, especially with seeing how the church was responding to this. And now think about how everything happened at my old church. And just it was a very interesting time. And then I think it was actually last year that we started kind of both my wife and I

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were like, "Okay, let's kind of start looking for churches again." And then, we're at a Korean church now, for the time being. My daughter goes to the, the Montessori school there. My daughter is three years old, so she's in Montessori over there.

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And, there is a lady in there that kept bothering me. Bother is no—bit too mean of a word. She was buttering me up a lot. She would tell me, "Oh, you're so awesome.

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Love you. You should come to the church. We have an English ministry. You should come." And she's been doing this for probably about a good year or so. And then, we had a thing at the at the church for the school,

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and I met the English pastor, and she came back again saying, "So you met the pastor. You should come." Da—da—da—da. And just to kind of, you know, have her stop. My wife and I was like, "Okay, let's just check it out. You know, at

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least that way I can go up to her and say, hey, I checked it out. I told you I didn't like it because I don't want to be a part of a Korean church." And that first Sunday was actually really good. And both my wife got back to the car and were like, "Wait, what just happened?" And so, we've been there

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since that was February of this year. And so that's why we're back at a Korean church. I still have a lot of misgivings with the–with the Korean church. I'm still very, walking on eggshells because I'm ready

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to–to jump out whenever something weird happens, right? But as of now, I'm there. That is a crazy story.

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[DY: Yeah.] Okay, when you said cult like, can you give a little more like what you mean by that? Yeah. So there's a there's a term in the church, called spiritual abuse.

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And it's basically using, like the Bible, using spiritual things to kind of get people to do things that they, I wouldn't say don't want to do is not necessarily the right term, because there are certain things that are beneficial that you don't want to do. But I would say they make

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you do things that, that you don't want to do that are not beneficial for you. So, a few examples are, we have a couple friends who got fired from their job because they were so devoted to the church. I should go back to that.

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One of the biggest issues that we had was, the devotion to the church was like, huge. Like, if you weren't devoted to the church, you weren't a Christian. It's kind of what was, not necessarily explicitly said, but it was that was the undertones.

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And so a lot of people lost their friends. Or a lot of people ditched their friends, is what it was. There were a good number of people who ditched their families. There are people who've lost their jobs because they would not go to their

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job to do things at church and stuff like that. People have failed classes because they were so focused on doing church stuff rather than homework and all those things. And so–and it kind of came once, once the whole facade of church came crumbling down.

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The pastor who was the main guy, he was found to have, I want to say, I guess you'd call it immoral relations with–with another person in the church, which kind of broke a lot of the–the facade

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of this pastor who everyone kind of followed to the T whatever he said. And then that's when everyone started realizing, "Oh, wait, I gave up a lot of things that I didn't really need to, and that's not necessarily what God was doing." And then the everything just kind

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of fell apart from there. So yeah, the church was very much church first, and church is everything. and or the best way I could put it is church equates to Jesus. So-so if you're not doing things for the church,

00:25:44.590 - 00:26:00.760

you're not doing things for Jesus, therefore you're sinning and all that jazz. And so there's a podcast called The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, which is a church by a pastor named Mark Driscoll. And the whole podcast is about the toxicity of that church.

00:26:00.760 - 00:26:15.380

And I listened to, I think, the first three episodes, and then I had to stop listening because it was way too close to home. It was that's a very good picture of what our church was. And so yeah. Fun times.

00:26:15.410 - 00:26:30.110

Do you think that like it being because I've definitely heard about this happening to like and not just, like, Korean context but, like. Do you think there's anything, like, specific about Korean culture that would lend itself to this to, like, perfect storm type thing?

00:26:30.140 - 00:26:47.840

Well, first off, what happened in my church was not a Korean church. It was a it was another church. But I think in the Korean church also, it's there's this there is this what do you call it? This atmosphere of what the pastor says is right.

00:26:48.020 - 00:26:58.820

Don't question the pastor. And I mean, that's-that's the same thing at my church where you don't really question the pastor, the pastor. What he says is—he says it straight from the Bible. That means it's from God.

00:26:59.150 - 00:27:12.860

And I think that's the kind of same vibe, I guess, that I can, I can kind of see within the Korean church of like, this is the pastor. He has the words of God. So listen to what he has to say.

00:27:13.010 - 00:27:24.200

So questioning the pastor, I don't know how often that happens in the Korean church, which I assume is rare. Yeah. So, yeah. So like the authority structure. Yes.

00:27:24.230 - 00:27:32.270

Culture then? Yes-yes Even more emphasized in the context. Yeah. Because especially because Koreans—I mean Asians, you have that hierarchy, right?

00:27:32.300 - 00:27:44.630

Hierarchy is a very huge thing in Asian culture. So yeah. No, that makes sense. And I guess also like I know like I feel like Protestantism is very popular around, like, Koreans compared to even other,

00:27:44.660 - 00:27:54.770

like, Asian subgroups. Do you have any thoughts on why? It's okay. If not. No, that's actually a really good question. I'm kind of curious about that.

00:27:54.770 - 00:28:09.840

No, I mean, my guess would be that the history of Christianity in Korea may have been more Protestant first than can—Catholic. So that's the only guess that I have.

00:28:09.870 - 00:28:22.260

But no, I'm not sure why. Well, let's jump back to kind of just, like, your experience in school, whether elementary or middle school or high school. Like, were there any, like, landmark things that happened to you in

00:28:22.260 - 00:28:40.590

school that, like, you think back to any friends that you're like, wow, they were super influential in my life. ...It's a great question.

00:28:45.330 - 00:29:00.630

I think, I can't really place, like, an uber inspirational or uber, like, influential person in my—in any of my schooling.

00:29:00.660 - 00:29:17.070

Because, again, I'm the kind of guy that–that just migrates to friend groups here and there. I think what was interesting for me was, I always made friends with-with seniors, which kind of now makes me question their judgment,

00:29:17.070 - 00:29:29.130

too. Like my freshman year, the people that I hung out with, the one person I remember I hung out with was a senior, my sophomore year. I hung out with seniors. My junior year, I hung out with seniors. So by my–by the time my senior year came around,

00:29:29.130 - 00:29:43.680

I realized I didn't have that many friends because I was always made friends with–with people on the outside. So, but that year was a year that I really–I played guitar, and that was because I didn't have anyone to hang out with except for a couple of friends.

00:29:44.010 - 00:29:59.130

I really got into playing music a lot more. But in terms of people, that was that's probably the most memorable. That's probably the most memorable thing about high school, just that I've always made friends with seniors. Again, I question their judgment now,

00:29:59.130 - 00:30:19.870

but interesting. Was there any, like, class or, like, teacher that really stuck out to you? One of my favorite teachers or two of my favorite teachers in high school. One of them was an English teacher, and she had to be amazing because I hate

00:30:19.870 - 00:30:35.080

English class. But I think one of the things I loved about her was not that she was a great teacher, but she was a great person to her students. I remember–I remember one time, one of my classmates—she really treats her students like her own,

00:30:35.080 - 00:30:47.410

and one of her classmates was having drama with another girl. And, and then the teacher found out about this, and the teacher goes, "Do we need to stop class right now? Do we need to go talk to her? Do we need to go? Do we need to bring her in right now and

00:30:47.410 - 00:31:00.850

talk about this?" And the girl was like, "no–no–no–no–no, it's okay–it's okay–it's okay." And that actually stuck out a lot to me because I think that really showed how much she cared. Because at the end of the day, I mean, looking back on it now,

00:31:00.850 - 00:31:19.390

being much older than I was back then and kind of being able to see, you know, what leadership looks like, that is a–is a very big, aspect of leadership that I think is very vital in terms of how, how people in those positions treat the people

00:31:19.390 - 00:31:34.960

under them, you know. And so she was amazing in that. And it made me actually read books like Pride and Prejudice and–and—oh, Fahrenheit 451 was really good. But yeah, Pride and Prejudice was–was a dread.

00:31:34.960 - 00:31:45.310

And I barely got through that. I could barely read that. But I did because it was her class. And so, and there's another teacher who made learning

00:31:45.310 - 00:31:58.340

really fun. She was my psychology teacher. Well, for my English teacher's name was Mrs. Tsuruda, and my psychology teacher was named Ms. Tapara. And, she was

00:31:58.340 - 00:32:14.480

very–very good at teaching, engaging, super easy to like–like she taught class in a way that was very easy to memorize all the–the concepts and stuff. To this day, I still remember, like the cerebellum,

00:32:14.480 - 00:32:28.280

you have the two L's make a balance beam. So, cerebellum is about balance and–and hippocampus. Right. The hippo goes on campus to learn and remember, hypothalamus the hypo—There's two thalamus and one of them is a hypothalamus.

00:32:28.280 - 00:32:39.170

And it's four letters different. And the four F's fight, flight, food and fornication. I still remember those. Like that was from 2006.

00:32:39.170 - 00:32:51.530

That's when I graduated high school. That was ten years. No, eight–ten–ten? Wow, I'm really bad at math. 18 years ago, almost. Dang. Holy crap, I'm old.

00:32:53.090 - 00:33:03.140

She made some core memories. She made core memories! And it was her–Well, my brother majored in psychology, and it was also with her that made me major in psych

00:33:03.560 - 00:33:17.030

for college. I actually took her general psychology class, but I actually took the AP class or AP test and like I said, I was good at academics, so I actually passed on it.

00:33:17.030 - 00:33:29.510

I don't know how still, actually. But she was a great teacher. That's how good of a teacher she was. So, yeah, those are the two teachers that I really remember. One for who she was and the other for how great of a teacher she was.

00:33:29.540 - 00:33:41.210

That's great. Did you ever learn about, like, Korean history in class? I did not. I'm also trying to remember if I learned about the Korean War, but I don't even remember that

00:33:41.210 - 00:33:54.810

either. I probably did. History was not my strong suit, either. I was your typical Asian, so math kind of came naturally to me. My brother would attest that he was not your typical Asian and math was actually really

00:33:54.810 - 00:34:07.980

hard for him. But math was easy—Math and science were my–were my go-tos. Gotcha–gotcha. What did your parents think about you? Like, deciding to major in psychology? Oh, my. Parents loved it because they thought I'd be a pastor. But by

00:34:07.980 - 00:34:21.750

my junior year in college, I–I really realized how much I hated psychology. I was—my teacher was so good that she tricked me into it. That's what–that's what I tell people.

00:34:21.780 - 00:34:36.780

But, yeah, I think every single psychology class I took I hated, except for cross-cultural psychology was probably the best course. It was the most fascinating course because it's the–it's the differences in psychology between different cultures.

00:34:36.780 - 00:34:49.170

So, that was probably the most fascinating class. But outside of that, I hated psychology. And by junior year, the only reason why I kept going is because I didn't want to go to more school. I didn't want my–my parents were paying for it,

00:34:49.170 - 00:34:55.360

too. I didn't want my parents to pay for more school because I hated school on top of that, so I just stuck through it. Oh, no. Yeah.[laughter],

00:34:56.290 - 00:35:06.550

That's so unfortunate. I was like, you started off with, like,"My teacher was so—". [DY: "My teacher was so good."] [Laughter.] What do you—like, was it that it just felt too technical or, like, just—

00:35:06.550 - 00:35:21.040

I don't know, I just didn't care for it. It wasn't interesting to me. Yeah. I mean, just–just I don't–I don't really care about how the brain works or the biopsychology,

00:35:21.070 - 00:35:32.530

the bio aspects, biology, aspects of how your brain makes you think or why people do what they do. And yeah, I just–I didn't really care. Yeah. [Laughs.]

00:35:34.180 - 00:35:46.810

If you could go back now, what would you have majored in? Some sort of, STEM, something technical, whether it be like engineering or...I'm a big space nerd, I love space. One of my dreams is to work for NASA, although my skill set doesn't go through

00:35:46.810 - 00:35:59.140

that. So, it'd probably be if I could go back again. I don't even know if I'm smart enough to do this, but I'd probably do some sort of like, I never like chemistry, so probably not chemistry. Probably some sort of physics or some sort of engineering.

00:35:59.170 - 00:36:09.550

Gotcha. Okay. All right. Like a good Asian? Yeah. Exactly.[laughter]. I guess besides the psychology major being a bit of a flop for you,

00:36:09.580 - 00:36:30.970

what were, like, some meaningful things that happened during college? Mhm...That's where I first found that church. So my ju—like, the second half of my junior year is when I found, the church that would unfortunately fall

00:36:30.970 - 00:36:47.240

apart in a few years. But the other thing that was really interesting was, That year I was to dorm because my parents left. So, I was dorming and we had these a-ap-apartment dorms.

00:36:47.240 - 00:37:03.860

So, it was four people in this room. You have a living room and two bedrooms and two people in each of those, and I don't know how it happened, but I got roomed with a bunch of Polynesians—Samoans, and it was an amazing experience.

00:37:03.890 - 00:37:21.440

Samoan people are the nicest. They are the most awesome and greatest people. Until you get them mad and you do not want to be on their bad side. But these guys were–were the best.

00:37:21.590 - 00:37:36.350

They were so fun and it's a–it's a very–it's a very social culture. So, even though there's four of us to a dorm, we probably had like 8 to 10 people all the time. We just had a bunch of the other Samoans, laying down in the couch or on the

00:37:36.350 - 00:37:51.500

floor. So, I was always around a bunch of people. One of the most memorable things is every single one of them had nicknames. That–that was kind of like their in thing. So, we had like a guy named Spikey because he had a spiky personality.

00:37:52.010 - 00:38:03.860

The leader of the crew, his name was chief. One of the guys' name was Yoyo. His name is Yosef–Yosefi was his name, but he was long and lanky, so that's why he called him Yoyo.

00:38:04.010 - 00:38:14.420

I'm trying to remember all their names. Did you have a nickname? I did, and my nickname was Yum Yum. And the reason for that is in-in Hawaii, we had a Korean restaurant,

00:38:14.420 - 00:38:29.090

one of those Korean fast food places called Yummy's bar—Korean barbecue. And so, because I'm Korean, and yummy—I mean, I guess they just called me Yum Yum. So, I mean, you got to think about, like, these ten big Samoan people walking

00:38:29.090 - 00:38:42.710

around campus and going, "Hey, Yum Yum." That was–that was a very big, interesting experience. Also, the fact that, you know, I'm a scrawny five foot ten Asian walking around because, again, they're very social. They always invited me in just walking around with these,

00:38:42.740 - 00:39:01.020

like, six foot super muscular Samoans or you got the short like stout, but you know, they'll–they'll run you over. Someone says it was just–it was a–I've never felt so in power. [Laughter]. I remember.

00:39:01.020 - 00:39:11.070

You were with the big guys. Yeah–yeah. I remember, one day we were all at our dorms, and one of the guys name was Pringles, and his name was Pringles, because when he grew out, his mustache, he looked like the Pringles

00:39:11.070 - 00:39:27.240

man. And so I remember one night he was drunk. But it was just me and him sitting out on the, the lanai area, and he looks at me, he goes, "Yum Yum. If anyone ever messes with you,

00:39:28.020 - 00:39:38.670

just call me and I'll come help you." At that moment, I felt like no one could mess with me. Some, you know, the world's strongest man can come up to me and I'll be like,"Hey, I got my guy Pringles here.

00:39:38.700 - 00:39:52.180

Don't mess with me, you know?" It was one of those things I've never felt so, like, protected and so, like, empowered. Again, coming from a five-foot-ten scrawny Asian guy, I'm not. Power is not the–the–the–the, the term I would ever

00:39:52.180 - 00:40:01.690

use for myself. But man did I feel like I was on top of the world and no one could take me down. You got a whole team of bodyguards? Yeah! For real. Like just again.

00:40:01.690 - 00:40:10.870

Ten big Samoan guys walking with this one scrawny Asian guy. Man, it was great. And that's so funny. Was it like a random housing placement? Yeah-Yeah, it was a random housing placement.

00:40:10.870 - 00:40:22.360

I think three of them, one of them was was not Samoan, but he was–he–he did room with them previously, and I guess they just had an opening and. Yeah, I guess that's what it was.

00:40:22.390 - 00:40:36.490

That's crazy. And so that was for two years of college. That was for. Well, it was only for a half a year because, when I started going again, that's when I started going to my church. And then. Right, one of the things was to leave all your friends.

00:40:36.490 - 00:40:50.810

And so I ended up leaving that group halfway through the year to go live with people at the church. Oh, wow. Okay. So it was full, like you're just coming into this new community. [DY: Mhm.] You lost your bodyguard?

00:40:50.840 - 00:41:05.600

Yes. Unfortunately,[laughter]. No. Do you keep in touch with any of them now? Not so much. I did recently reach out to one of them because one of them is now a youth pastor at a church, and one of my previous friends at the

00:41:05.600 - 00:41:19.010

church works alongside him, and I actually messaged her. I was like, "Hey, I'm not sure if Taylor remembers me, but I have a feeling that he doesn't like me because I just ended up ditching them halfway through." And she responded back after she talked to him and said like,

00:41:19.040 - 00:41:36.020

"Oh no, they have good memories" because I used to be the one that would take them to church all the time. I would go to four services during college, I would go to—What were the services that I went to? I went to the church that I was going to at the time,

00:41:36.020 - 00:41:50.740

my brother's old church. And then I would go to the the church that would become a cult. And then I went to the college service of that Korean church. And then I would take all my Samoan guys to a college service out of another

00:41:50.740 - 00:42:01.870

church. And so I would always take them to go to church. Yeah. Because church is, you know, life. That's what it was. That's crazy. So that's so–that's so many.[laughter]. It was–it was people going to--for services.

00:42:01.900 - 00:42:14.170

Yeah, it was dumb. [Laughter.] That is crazy. Oh, man. I guess kind of moving to, like, your career and then audio visual. When was, like, the first time you thought about that?

00:42:14.230 - 00:42:23.620

Was that something like, after you're like, I don't like psych. Now, what do I do? No-no, it was actually, at the church again. I played guitar. And so my pastor at the time was like,"Oh,

00:42:23.650 - 00:42:41.510

you kind of have an ear. Why don't you learn how to work the soundboard?" And so I started doing some of that, and then to kind of learn how to do it a lot better. I randomly met—I was a trumpet player back in high school, and I used to take lessons, and I randomly met my lessons teacher

00:42:42.200 - 00:42:57.770

at a job at a school that I was working at, and I asked him, "Hey, do you know any sound guys that I can learn from?" And he gave me a number and I called the guy and he said, "I asked him if I can shadow him just to learn." He said, "come down." I literally did nothing because it was

00:42:57.770 - 00:43:13.100

a–it was a marathon event that he just set up speakers and a tent—I-in a tent, and all it was, is just playing music. And then whenever someone talked, you just turn on a microphone. So I went there, literally just sat there, did nothing.

00:43:13.100 - 00:43:26.840

He said, "I'm doing this again tomorrow. Do you want to help?" I said, "Sure." He came back. I helped him break everything down and as I was putting it into their truck, the owner of that company was like, "Hey, do you want a job?" And I said, "Okay." And that was literally the start of

00:43:26.840 - 00:43:42.530

my, my career. And from there I learned, the audiovisual. We mainly did like hotels. You know, when you have conferences and you set up all the projectors and all that jazz. I did that, but what I found-what I found really

00:43:42.530 - 00:43:57.080

enjoyable, was doing musical theater. So, I did audio doing musical theater. And so yeah, that's how I got into AV, completely separate from my degree. That's great. What, like theater place did you work with?

00:43:57.200 - 00:44:05.870

It was a private school. It was an all-boys school. They had a theater that was for rent, and so, rent to the community.

00:44:05.870 - 00:44:15.110

So we called it a roadhouse. Basically, you do a show, you do someone's show, you break it down and clean it all up. And the next weekend, it's a whole nother show.

00:44:15.410 - 00:44:26.540

And then the school, who was also shared a campus with a college, they would do yearly. No, it would be twice a year. They would do a theater show.

00:44:26.540 - 00:44:36.720

And I was their main audio guy for that. Do you have like a favorite show that they did? My favorite—the show that I go back to is Little Shop of Horrors, because that was the very first show that I ever did.

00:44:36.810 - 00:44:52.740

I got thrown into the deep end, the-the sound guy. I was learning from. I was like, "Here, do this–this–this–this, and, program, the whole show, and we'll just go with that." And I was like, "Okay." And so that was the first show I ever did.

00:44:52.860 - 00:45:05.880

I like more of the–the, like the pop music style rather than, like, the theater-esque. Like, I don't know if you know "Into The Woods." I hate "Into The Woods." Those kind of shows really bore me.

00:45:05.880 - 00:45:16.620

But shows like Little Shop of Horrors or, Hairspray, we did that one. That was another good one. Just those kind of music. That's–That's what I really enjoy doing. [KL:You want some upbeat?]

00:45:16.650 - 00:45:24.960

Not like the old fashioned— Yeah–yeah–yeah–yeah–yeah. Exactly–exactly–exactly. No, that makes sense. I was wondering, like,

00:45:24.990 - 00:45:37.410

okay, let's say you're, like, on set, and it's like opening night. What are, like, the sort of things that you're doing behind the scenes. Because I personally I was always in musical theater. I never understood what the sound guy.[DY: Yeah–yeah–yeah]I just knew there was like,

00:45:37.440 - 00:45:49.890

50,000 things [DY: Yeah] going on. So, what I do is prior-prior to the show happening, I program my soundboard. So, basically what that means is I read the script and I already have the microphones all

00:45:49.890 - 00:46:03.330

laid out as to who's who. And then so as I go through the script, I go through different scenes and I put up microphones. I turn the volume up on certain microphones or certain people that are already talking. And then I save that, and then I'll once,

00:46:03.360 - 00:46:17.110

like, someone leaves or something changes, then I'll change that volume on that one and then save that. So, as basically I'm programming the whole show that all I need to do is just press a button and all the, the volumes will automatically go up and down.

00:46:17.110 - 00:46:33.670

So, that's what I do before I even look at the show or before the show even starts. And then after that, I do all the sound checks to make sure all the volumes are where they need to be, so that when I press next, it's already calibrated.

00:46:34.210 - 00:46:50.410

And then after that, you know, just making sure that the band, if there is a band, if there's an orchestra, that sounds good. Those are always really hard because you're dealing with 12 to 24 vocals, right? Actors and

00:46:50.410 - 00:47:06.400

whatnot. And then on top of that, you're dealing with 12 to 24 microphones in the orchestra. So just, you know, making sure all of that's calibrated, that's the best word I can put because it's calibrated because once the idea is that you set it a certain way at the very start of the show,

00:47:06.400 - 00:47:20.500

so you already know what to expect for the rest of the show. So, that's what I'm doing prior to–to, doors opening. It's getting all the volumes right, making sure the orchestra sounds the way it's supposed to and then just pray.[laughter].

00:47:23.050 - 00:47:34.340

Is what it is. Yeah. Have you ever had a show where, like, something went very wrong. Oh, all the time. The common one is you, miss persons. Like, they come in and you don't realize, or you forget that they're coming in and you

00:47:34.340 - 00:47:47.930

forget to press the button. So they come on and it's like, "Oh la-la la", it's like, "Oh, dang, I missed it." There's that. I've always had to tell the orchestra to stop talking because I never, I never mute their microphones.

00:47:47.930 - 00:47:58.850

So, their microphones are always on, so and their mics are, you know, in front of them because they're in front of their instruments. So, they're like, "hey da-da-da" and you can hear it whispering and stuff. I've done that. That's happened.

00:47:59.270 - 00:48:11.690

One—there was a show where I had my MacBook was the–the–the sound effects. So, I played all the sound effects. And at the time, this is when your phone can tie to your,

00:48:11.720 - 00:48:20.870

to your laptop. Right? And so when your phone rings, your laptop rings. Right. And so I got a phone call clicked on my phone. "Can't talk to you mute." Put it back in.

00:48:21.530 - 00:48:35.930

All of a sudden. You hear this? Da–da–da–da–da–da–da–da dun–dun–dun–dun–dun–dun. And I'm looking around I'm like, "Whose phone is ringing right in the middle of a theater show?" And it dawned on me that it was a little louder than

00:48:35.930 - 00:48:49.010

what it would be in an audience. And I looked at my computer and I went, "Oh, crap." I muted it. And then just like, just stood there completely like heart pumping everything.

00:48:49.040 - 00:48:59.480

Everyone's looking at me, obviously, because, you know, and I had to play it off like it wasn't me because, you know, it's already embarrassing as it is. So, yeah, I've had I've had a lot of hiccups here and there.

00:48:59.510 - 00:49:09.710

It was—it's-it's always fun. Keeps you on your toes. [Laughs.] That is so funny. You go around and, like, scream at the person— Yeah! No, I'm like, I was literally like!

00:49:10.100 - 00:49:25.740

And then my face went— Yeah, it was it was a whole thing. It's so funny. I was wondering like, do you feel like in general, like in the jobs that you've worked, whether it's, like, at a hotel, whether it's theater like that. People take like audiovisual people for granted.

00:49:27.120 - 00:49:42.840

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, all they see—I always tell people that you do your job. You did your job well if no one notices you. That's–that's the way—that's that's my mantra. So, it is a thankless job, but it's

00:49:42.840 - 00:49:55.680

better to be thankless than having people yell at you. So, yes, people do take my job for granted. They don't understand the hours and the labor that goes into it. But yeah, I mean, did you set all this up?

00:49:55.680 - 00:50:06.570

You set all this up. It took you 20, 30, 40 minutes to just set it up. Now imagine doing a whole ballroom with, like, 20 speakers and all that stuff. I mean, that takes a whole day just to set all that up. You see,

00:50:06.570 - 00:50:21.480

if you ever watch videos of, arenas with touring companies like a Taylor Swift, like the Eras Tour, and it takes a whole day before to set everything up and–and tons of manpower just to get all that going. And that's not even testing the equipment.

00:50:21.480 - 00:50:29.340

That's just to put the equipment in. So. Yeah, it's a labor of love. Yeah, definitely. It's like the best is like, no one notices that you're there.

00:50:29.370 - 00:50:40.380

Yeah-Yeah, exactly. [KL: The worst is people are screaming at you] yeah-yeah-yeah. They stare at you. That’s the worst. [Laughter.] It takes a lot of humility. I was wondering, like, what did you do at, like,

00:50:40.410 - 00:50:52.290

Rice specifically? Like, what kind of things were you setting up and stuff? So, I was the—we have two AV. Oh, we did? I don't know if—because I left last year right when DesRoches came in.

00:50:52.290 - 00:51:07.710

So, this was right before all the big changes happened. But I was part of the team that dealt with the AV in the classrooms. So, whenever our classroom didn't work, the professor would call and you would see one of us, one of our teams, come in and fix which 75% of the time it's

00:51:07.710 - 00:51:22.180

usually user error, but you don't need to—you didn't need to know that. But yeah, that's–that's what I did. I come in and I also my main part was to help design the systems, and,

00:51:22.180 - 00:51:36.400

and manage the systems. Whenever we had installations, we'd be the one managing it. So, I got kicked into that when Covid happened. When Covid happened, they wanted to still do classes.

00:51:36.640 - 00:51:52.270

Were you here during Covid? Oh, this was oh–this was before you. Man, I'm getting old. They wanted to be able to do classes hybrid. Right? But none of our rooms was capable of hybrid. So, we had to put cameras and microphones in all the rooms.

00:51:52.270 - 00:52:07.420

And we literally only had a month to–to design it and a month to install it in. I think it was like 60 rooms. Yeah, it was a–it was a–it was a–it was dumb. But yeah, I helped design all those things and research and how to do this,

00:52:07.420 - 00:52:20.080

that and that. So, that was kind of my main thing. And then managing all the contractors that came in and installed everything. So, that was kind of my main—what I ended up doing before I left. Gotcha. And I–I know you mentioned, like, user error.[laughter].

00:52:20.110 - 00:52:34.030

I was wondering, like, what–what do you what's your take on like the competency, like technological competency of professors and students at Rice? Okay. Students. Amazing. But it's because we all grew up with the technology.

00:52:34.270 - 00:52:51.250

You see–you see the curve drop as you the age progresses. And the biggest irony are our professors who are like in comp sci or I should not this let's be real. Let's be real people like in comp sci and–and you know,

00:52:51.280 - 00:53:07.240

they're granted it's my guess is it's more about computer theory than it is about computers itself. But it's ironic when they don't even know how to–how to put in a password correctly or something like that. You know what I mean? Just because, I mean, isn't that your–isn't that your field? But whatever. That's. But yes,

00:53:07.240 - 00:53:20.300

as you get older, the competency drops and then you get some stellar people that are like they're–they're–they're high up in age, but they are really good with technology. You know, stuff like that. And then you have some people who are really young and it's like, how do you not know how a computer works?

00:53:20.300 - 00:53:32.150

That's like literally your generation, but I digress.[laughter]. What's like the the funniest thing, like you've been called in for as like, this is a genuine problem and you're like, oh my gosh. Oh, that's a great question.

00:53:39.620 - 00:53:57.800

Huh. I'm not sure. I'm trying to think of the dumbest–dumbest ones. There's been a few times where because every classroom has a–has a monitor, right where the monitor is not working and you just walk up and press the power button and walk away.

00:53:58.400 - 00:54:13.760

But the thing about it is, you know, some professors have egos, right? More than not. And so you have to make it look like you're doing a whole bunch of things. So, I'll turn it on and I'll be, like, typing and doing certain things, and then they'd be like,"Oh,

00:54:13.760 - 00:54:25.970

what happened?" And depending on the professor, because there are some professors that I that—I've come to like, really enjoy. So I'll be like, "Oh, the power is off. No biggie. I've done it before." I'd say things like that just to kind of, you know, ease it off and they'll laugh. But

00:54:25.970 - 00:54:38.270

there are certain professors where, you know, you can't tell that you can't call them out in front of the students. So you'd be like, "Oh, no, I just I had to do a bunch of things, but I'll put it in the ticket. Because we have a ticketing system, I'll put it in the ticket to and let you know what happened, and I'll be like, oh, the

00:54:38.270 - 00:54:47.750

power's just off." You know, just because you don't want to bruise their ego and whatnot. So. So, you need the EQ, too. Exactly–exactly–exactly.

00:54:47.750 - 00:55:00.080

And you-you should I say this, and you'd hope that some of the professors have EQ, which a lot of professors don't and— Sometimes you get so smart the EQ just—[DY: It's—yup!] IQ/EQ Balance is hard. Yeah.[laughter].

00:55:00.650 - 00:55:16.050

There are days I've left wanting to—okay. Moving on.[Laughter] So funny. I guess, like, say, as much as you're comfortable, but, like, what were some of the factors going into

00:55:16.080 - 00:55:30.870

leaving Rice in your career? For me, it was, another step in–in the career. I was going from just kind of a technical job to becoming—This is a whole thing right now.

00:55:30.870 - 00:55:42.990

But what I was supposed to become was kind of a department. I was supposed to establish an AV division of where I'm at now. And then I was supposed to kind of, you know, expand that and do a bunch of things on top of that.

00:55:42.990 - 00:55:54.780

It was like 21 grand more than I was making here. So, yeah, that was a huge factor too. Yeah, it makes sense. Did you feel like, I guess in Rice or just in general, do you spend more time managing technology or people?

00:55:55.410 - 00:56:13.320

Oh, that's a great question, oof. So, when it comes to AV, it's actually a pretty good split because AV exists as a service. It exists as like a events type of thing, right? Whether it's a lecture, whether it's a theater show or things like

00:56:13.320 - 00:56:30.720

that. So, it's always—it's always a two-way street where my job is to translate what these non-technical people want and to put it into technical, into the technical world and then give it back to them in–in what they want in non-technical form.

00:56:30.720 - 00:56:46.590

So, I think it's both. I'd be managing both because you got to manage their expectations to make sure they know, "Hey, you may want a microphone 30ft away from you and you want them to hear you whispering." Yeah, that's not going to happen. Physics doesn't allow that to happen.

00:56:46.980 - 00:56:58.740

But "hey, this is how we can do it." And then making that happen and then managing the—the audiovisual, the technology to make sure that that works. So I think it's a pretty good 50/50 split. Okay. Makes sense. All right.

00:56:58.740 - 00:57:12.310

We are at the ten-minute mark for me. Okay. Let's see. Oh yeah. Okay. Walk me through a day in your life and your current job now. Oh, I wake up early. I probably wake up around

00:57:12.310 - 00:57:25.750

5–5:30 because I start at 6. I'm supposed to leave my house at 5:30. Whether that happens or not depends on how well my kid sleeps. But I should be leaving my house.

00:57:25.750 - 00:57:36.160

I get ready in the morning. I–I–I'm not the most fashionable person, so literally, I already pick out clothes. Just put it on. Have you ever heard of a capsule wardrobe?

00:57:36.400 - 00:57:46.300

Oh, like you have just, like, a couple. Everything matches together. So, I have that. I don't care about how I look as long as it looks decent. So, getting ready takes about 15, 20 minutes for me.

00:57:46.330 - 00:58:02.770

Brush teeth, wash face, all that jazz and 15 minutes to get out because my—I–I value my sleep, so I try to sleep as much as I can. Then I walk out 5:30. I'll drive to work, which is right by, what is the place

00:58:02.770 - 00:58:15.100

called? Greenway–Greenway Plaza? Yeah. I work right around there. Get in at six. And I'd like to say that I work right when I get there,

00:58:15.100 - 00:58:28.900

but that usually doesn't happen. I'm usually kind of still waking up. But generally, depending on what the day is. My main role is to take care of the meetings that happen. It's a governmental–it's a government esque job.

00:58:28.900 - 00:58:43.900

So, we have a lot of, like, public board meetings and whatnot. And so I manage those, those meetings to make sure that they happen. Well. My other role is just to make sure we have all these meeting spaces with, like–like cameras and TVs, like, hybrid

00:58:43.900 - 00:58:57.550

meeting spaces. I know we have a bunch of those here. So, I manage those and make sure that they all work. And then, just anything else that might have to deal with that. Once that's done, 4:00, I go home.

00:58:57.730 - 00:59:13.040

Well, I leave, I go pick up my daughter at her daycare, which is the church that we go to now. And then it's a fight between whether we go straight to the car or go to the playground. But I usually win that fight because I usually have a

00:59:13.040 - 00:59:27.230

lollipop. You know, bribing is the best way to do it. And then we go home, have dinner, play with my daughter until she probably goes around—to sleep around 7:30, 8:00. and then at after she goes down, it's the, making sure we kind of reset the house.

00:59:27.230 - 00:59:39.920

So, we do the dishes and all that jazz. And then what little time I have left, I don't know, whatever I feel like doing at the time, sometimes. Have you ever heard of revenge scrolling? Have you ever heard of that term

00:59:39.920 - 00:59:53.750

before? Where you're so, like, busy in the day and you don't have any time for yourself that you're just so pissed off that you'll just scroll for two hours just because you want that two hours of stuff. So, it's called revenge scrolling. So I've done that before because—I'm supposed to

00:59:53.780 - 01:00:06.810

sleep technically, like at 9:30, 10:00, but I usually sleep like I end up sleeping like around 11–11:30. But that's my typical Monday through Friday work. Take care of my kid and then manage the house and then go to sleep.

01:00:06.840 - 01:00:17.430

Gotcha. Makes sense. Where did you—and when did you meet your wife? We met in college. We met in college. I played a lot of guitar.

01:00:17.700 - 01:00:31.890

I am a Christian, and I loved John Mayer. John Mayer was my go-to. He is the–He is my biggest influence in guitar. And we had a table in the back of the cafeteria

01:00:32.040 - 01:00:46.140

in college, and it was all my high school friends, and we literally dominated that space. I think we had that space for like four years because someone would get there really early, set it all up to have like five tables put together, and one of us would just rotate and someone would always stay there.

01:00:46.140 - 01:00:58.140

So we had this table always. And one of the girls at that table was in class with my wife, and she told my wife, "Hey, there's a guy who's a Christian who plays guitar and loves John Mayer.

01:00:58.170 - 01:01:13.320

You should meet him." Because she loved him. She was the same to you. She was a Christian, she played guitar, and she loved John Mayer. And so that's how we initially met. And then she ended up coming to my church. And then a whole lot of weird things happened because we're a

01:01:13.320 - 01:01:25.650

cult. But then we ended up dating, and then we got married there. At that church. At the church? Yeah.[KL: Wow], we got married. Not at the church. We got married because it was a—we were a mobile church. We never—we

01:01:25.650 - 01:01:36.840

didn't have a building. Okay. But yeah, we got married at a–at a–at a Korean church. Haha. Yeah. So, funny. I guess last things before I jump more on to your family and personal life.

01:01:37.050 - 01:01:51.150

One is like, did you ever face any discrimination being Asian in your field? So, the funny thing about being in Hawaii is, the Asian race is the majority.

01:01:51.360 - 01:02:04.570

We are, I think last I checked, I think we're like 30, 40% of the population. So, we are actually the majority. So, I didn't feel too much of that. Yeah, I didn't—I mean,

01:02:04.600 - 01:02:19.750

and also the thing is in Hawaii, where race was, was a–was a joke. We would always make fun of it because everyone in Hawaii is like the local Hawaii people, are mostly mixed. And so, yeah, race was

01:02:19.750 - 01:02:29.440

just a topic of joking. Honestly, we could use some of that. No, I'm all. Yeah, I'm all for that, too. I'm on the same boat as you.

01:02:29.650 - 01:02:40.690

And I guess, like, if you had to come up with, like, an ideal place where you'd want to be in your job. Like where? What would that look like? Man, you're, like, tapping into my personal dreams now, man, because these are the things

01:02:40.690 - 01:02:51.910

that I've been thinking about all day. Not all day, but—I mean, my dream job is to work for NASA. I've said that before. I love space, and I love again the technical things.

01:02:51.940 - 01:03:03.430

I mean, my job is very technical, so I really enjoy that part of it. But I've always wanted to work at NASA. But at the same time, I don't want to be in Houston, so I don't know how that's going to work, but whatever. But that's always been

01:03:03.430 - 01:03:18.460

my-my-my dream place to work. Now, if you were to ask me if I won the lottery right now, what would I would do? Is I like to travel. That's something I've come to learn over,

01:03:18.490 - 01:03:32.470

over time. I think, again, because I've lived in Houston for the past six years. Getting out of Houston is always fun, so.[laughter]. But, yeah, my dream job would be to work at NASA. And if I had all the money in the world, I'd be traveling.

01:03:32.500 - 01:03:45.790

All right, that sounds great. [DY:laughter.] Do you feel like it's hard for you to keep up with, like, the changing nature of technology or any thoughts on AI? Oh, I've actually been—At first I was scared of AI because that seems freaky.

01:03:46.060 - 01:03:55.980

But I've come to learn. Just like the cell phone, right? Just like the the cell phone. If you don't embrace it, you're going to fall way behind because it's–it's out. It's done.

01:03:56.010 - 01:04:07.410

It's—there's no way of putting it back into the box. And so it's only going to be the future. So, I've actually been learning how to utilize things like ChatGPT, especially for my work and whatnot.

01:04:07.830 - 01:04:26.610

Yeah. So AI is really–really–really cool, really scary. But it is the future and there's—you have to–you have to embrace it in order to, to keep up. Your first question was, how do I deal with the constant

01:04:26.610 - 01:04:40.830

changing of technology? I'm a very—I love technology, so I'm always looking at the next, next best thing. I'm the guy that whenever a new phone drops, I'm the one that gets the highest one every single year. That's my thing, because I love

01:04:40.830 - 01:04:51.470

to have the latest and greatest. So yeah, it's natural for me to kind of keep up. Okay. No, I guess that's good. That's definitely good for the job. Yeah. And what do you feel like in your job can't be

01:04:51.470 - 01:05:08.780

replaced by AI Customer Service! The—as great and as automated as AI can be, if something goes wrong, you need a human to fix it back.

01:05:08.780 - 01:05:26.900

So, I think that's-that's something that—there is AI kind of coming into the audio world of, like, self-mixing. It'll—I just went to a conference last year, two years ago where they're putting AI in a–in a–in a mixing

01:05:26.900 - 01:05:41.510

board, sound board where it'll read what instrument it's–it's listening to, it'll automatically label it. And if you want it to, it'll automatically mix it to sound good. But something about art that you know is that art is never

01:05:41.720 - 01:05:54.030

about numbers. And in audio world, it's never about meters. We call it meters. It's how much sound is coming in and out, right? It's always about how things sound or in art,

01:05:54.030 - 01:06:06.750

how things look right. You could tell an AI. Red looks good with green and blue looks good with white. And then you tell it to paint something, and it'll paint something and it'll be like, well, you could have probably added some orange and, you know, things like that. Like,

01:06:06.780 - 01:06:23.820

that's not something that AI can do in that same way. I think art has its place or humans have its place in art. To be able to, you know, to mold it in a way that is, pleasing to other people.

01:06:23.850 - 01:06:34.590

And so I think the art aspect of it, the technical aspect, can easily be, replaceable, replace humans. That the tech part of it? Yeah. Is that what I'm trying to say?

01:06:34.620 - 01:06:47.310

Yeah. But then who's going to set up the AI? You need someone to put the stand up. Exactly–exactly–exactly. That's great. And where and when do you feel most at home?

01:06:54.720 - 01:07:09.480

What is home is the question that I'm asking now. When I'm with people. I think because I'm such an extrovert, I hate—I'm not a homebody. I hate being at home. I love being with people.

01:07:09.480 - 01:07:23.550

I love talking, hence why I talk so much. So, I feel the most comfortable home. I feel home with people. But I also feel very comfortable.

01:07:23.550 - 01:07:38.100

And I feel at home when I'm—when I'm—this is so—so contradictory. I was gonna say by myself. [Laughs.] I guess because. Are you familiar with the MBTI?

01:07:38.130 - 01:07:52.090

The personality? I'm an ENFP, so I'm a feeler. So, I feel at home when I feel like I'm at home. That's the best way I can put it. Just whenever I feel comfortable. I mean, like-I like-I like, I can feel very lonely or very

01:07:52.090 - 01:08:04.450

weird with a bunch of people. And at the same time feel super comfortable and feel like I'm at home with people and then vice versa. I can feel super comfortable and very like, oh, I'm so glad that I'm by myself.

01:08:04.480 - 01:08:16.370

And at the same time be like, oh, I hate being by myself. So–so I don't know the answer to that. It's just I feel like I'm at home when I feel like I'm at home. Gotcha. No. That's great.

01:08:16.370 - 01:08:29.350

And then I guess lastly, if your kid watched this interview in the future or watches this future, what's something you want to tell them? Lily and baby number two.

01:08:29.380 - 01:08:42.490

If there is a baby number two in the future. First things first is know that. Oh, man, this is getting emotional. Know that I don't care about how—what you grow up into,

01:08:42.520 - 01:08:58.870

or how much money you make, or what kind of job you have, or what kind of person you are in the future. Just know that Dad absolutely adores you and loves you. And I just want to make sure that you know that I will love you,

01:08:58.900 - 01:09:12.640

regardless of if you're watching this or not. And I will love you if you are the smartest, most awesome person in the world and I will love you if you are not. That is all.

01:09:12.700 - 01:09:34.300

Awesome. And any last thing you want to add that we haven't covered? No, I think I've said—I will say that all of my thoughts and how I feel and everything I said here is as of 2:48 on November 12th,

01:09:34.300 - 01:09:41.230

and probably at 2:50, things will change. So yeah. [Laughter] Take it with a grain of salt. Take everything what I said with a grain of salt. [KL: Awesome.]