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So, today is Wednesday, April 26th, 2023. My name is Grace Park, and I'm here with Rita Ajit, and we're interviewing Dr. Crystal Shin on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice University. So, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to speak with us and share your

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story. So, I'm going to begin with the first section of the interview, and then Grace is going to take over for the second part. So, just to begin with your early life, can you tell us when and where you were born? Sure, I–I was born in Geoje Island in

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South Korea. It's a–it's a southeast part of South Korea. It's an island that's not too far away from the mainland, so there's a bridge, so you can get to the island by driving.

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And I was born in 1985, January— Mhm. Can you tell us what it was like—what your family dynamics were like in your household growing up? Sure. I have two younger sisters who are

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two years–two years apart. So, two years younger and four years younger. So, it was very active. Lots of screaming, but in a fun way.

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And we—I think we were very musical. We liked to sing together and we played instruments. And my parents, they were—my–my

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dad was working full time and my mom was a house mom or housewife, but she was very active in her own activities. So, she—I remember she was taking guitar classes, so she had, like, recitals and stuff

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when I was growing up, and she was part of choir. So, she did a lot of activities, but she was there, she was at home when we were home. And growing up, we took a lot of road trips, family road trips, if not every weekend, like, at least every other weekend, we would, you know, drive.

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And this was–this was when—we went to school on Saturdays. I mean, it was a half day, but we went to school on Saturdays, and my dad worked on Saturdays. So, whenever he would come home around noon, 1 o'clock, my mom would have us

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ready, and we'll just, you know, hit the road, drive 3 or 4 hours, end up somewhere in the middle of nowhere, like in the mountains, and yeah. We would go on road trips like that. So, I mean, it–it was a very fun—I only have fun,

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loving memories. Mhm. That sounds like a really nice childhood. Your dad, what was his work? He was a clinical pharmacist, so he was overseeing all

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operations in hospital—in–in pharmacy. So, what were some important values or lessons that your parents instilled in you? So, my dad used to say to do your best. Like, whatever–whatever it is, just give your—give the best

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as you could. So, I think that was...I mean, growing up, it was just—it–it sounded cliche, but as an adult, I think that was good value. Whether I practiced or not, that's a different story.

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But [laughs] yeah, I think that was a good message. And my mom, she, you know, I think she—so, we grew up as Buddhist. So, you know, Buddhist household, we–we

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talk about karma, you know, why—I-I think my mom really emphasized us being kind to other people. Like, just, you know, be a nice human being. So, I know you talked a little bit about your tradition of these little road trips with

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your families. But besides that, were there any other big family traditions or holidays that you guys love to celebrate? We...I guess when I was in Korea, it was just, you know, whenever we get—we have breaks.

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But now, in–in the States, my sisters and I, we celebrate the day we first landed [laughs], so we call it our–our Columbus Day. [laughs] It's not really the same, but we–we celebrate

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that day. And of course, just birthdays and...yeah, but we–we don't really have, like, a big family tradition. But when I was in high school, you know, Christmas to New Year's, that was always, like, a family time.

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Mhm, yeah. It's nice that you're still so close with your sisters. Yeah. Some would find it unhealthy. I don't know. [RA: laughs] But I—we're–we're very close, you know, we–we

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have family chat room as well. We talk to each other. I talk to my parents, you know, I mean, every day. I talk to them, they're in Korea now.

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So, the time difference kind of makes it easier for us to talk, 'cause I talk to them during my commute. Right, so next, we're going to talk a little bit about—well, later we'll talk about schooling a little bit. But what was your favorite subject in school growing up, and

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were you always interested in science? I don't think I had a favorite subject that I can say, "Oh, this was my favorite." I just remember not enjoying it very much.

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It wasn't—so—wait, are we talking about, you know, schools in Korea or in the US? I'd like to hear [CS: In college, or—] a little bit about Korea first. Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, no, I didn't—I don't think I had any favorite subjects, but

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I had an early exposure to science in elementary–in elementary school. I was fourth grade, that's when we moved from the island to the mainland Korea, outside of Seoul.

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So, I lived in a suburb called Suwon, which is the capital of that region or that-that district? I forgot what's the proper—prov—not province, but yeah,

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that area, so it's not a small town. It's a–it's a decent-sized town. And my dad was relocated there, that's why we moved. And I was in an elementary school that was fairly new.

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And they j—they were just starting, I think was the third graduating class, so it was really new, new school. And they started this program—like Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, they had those, and I-I think—I believe it's called Youth

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Astronauts of Korea, or something like that. Some organizations that, you know, that I was very lucky to be part of. I've always wanted to be the Brownie girl, 'cause I thought the uniform was the

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cutest thing. [RA: I agree.] Then, when I heard about this—it was very interesting, because we had to take the test to get into this Youth Astronaut program. It wasn't, like, a hard test.

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It was more of a—in retrospect, now that I think about it, it was more like how this person is thinking, you know? So, I took the test. I actually got in. There were people who didn't make it.

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So, you know, I was really excited about that. But that program gave me all the exposure, because we—and I was very fortunate to have passionate teachers who really cared about science. So, every–every day, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday—sometimes

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we didn't have any activities on Wednesdays, but Thursday and Friday, we always had some after-school activities. We did group projects to build, like, miniature rockets and water-powered rockets, and we did, like, simple

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scientific experiments, and we learned how to write a scientific report, and we-we did some, like, solving math problems together. Things like that we did, and I went to, you know, summer camp with the group,

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and winter camp, where we meet other students from different places in Korea. So, I really enjoyed that—I mean, at that time, I was just having fun, you know, I was with my friends, and we were

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building things, which was super cool, and, you know, these rockets, we made it from plastic bowling pin. You know those—it's–it's a kid's toy, right? So, we're, like, repurposing the toy to build rockets out of it.

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So, it–it was super fun. Then, you know, later on, now that I—now that I'm older, I think that might have really—that–that's what instilled my interest in science at the time.

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And then I—you know, so I've always thought that I would do something science-related. Yeah, it's so cool to trace that spark back to when you were a kid. Yeah, yeah.

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So, we want to talk a little bit- [CS: It was really fun.] Yeah. So, we want to talk a little bit about your immigration story and how you came from South Korea to the United States. So, when did you make that decision to make the big move?

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So, it–it was really my parents who let—or who agreed, or decided, that it was okay for us to relocate. So, I wanted to study abroad [RA: Mhm.] when I was 13.

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So, you know, I was just some angry teenager asking my parents to send me away, 'cause I didn't like my schools. I didn't like my teachers.

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I didn't understand why I had to take 14 subjects to—you know, and I was just tired of hearing, "Oh, your next six years or, like, three, four years of your life can really benefit the—benefit your life, for the rest of your life." Like, I just didn't get that concept, but

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then again, I was an angry teenager, so I would, you know, ask my parents to send me away. Then my mom said, "No, I can't have you, as a teenage girl, alone in a foreign country." Then, we

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had a—we kind of had a breakthrough, I guess. My mom met her friend from—her classmate from high school, who was living in Virginia at the time, so they were talking.

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My mom, you know, she–she told her friend about me wanting to, you know, going away, studying abroad. Then, one thing led to another. She figured that it would be better for—I mean,

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she-she's got two other kids too, right? And things in Korea were getting expensive in terms of, like, education. You know, people spend a lot of money on education, not just at school, you know,

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after sch—there were so many after-school things that I was doing at the time. I had private tutors, and–and I was still going to, you know, after-school places. I don't–I don't even know what's the right term?

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I don't know, Grace, do you–do you happen to know what-what it's called in English? Is it— [CS: Hakwon.] you're referring to Hakwon, right? I would say, like, academy centers or something? I'm not too sure.

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Yeah, after-school aca-academy. Yeah, so I–I was doing all of that. Then, just when I was graduating from middle school, my-my dad said, "Yeah, maybe you guys should

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go," 'cause he, you know, he-he didn't want to start his life over in a foreign country. I mean, he had a very good job, stable career there. So, he–he was in Korea, and then my mom brought three girls with

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her, and then we settled in Virginia. That's cool to hear, because I'm from Virginia. That was–that was 2000. Yeah, 2000.

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So, when you came to the United States, what was that transition like, and were there any really striking differences between the culture? I mean, really...noth-nothing, except for the language barrier, you know?

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I–I felt...like I wasn't smart enough. That-that's really how I felt at the time. I felt dumb, not being able to know what other people are saying, you

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know? I hear things, but I couldn't really understand what they're saying, and I couldn't express myself well, so that was frustrating. But, you know, I—I mean, I was trying to learn a new language, and what I learned—we learned English in Korea, but it's, you know, completely

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useless when it comes to having conversation with people. So, besides that, I–I didn't particularly experience cultural differences, because outside of D.C., that's where we were, northern Virginia, it's

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very diverse. There were plenty of Koreans, and, you know, I hardly experienced any cultural differences. I-I loved it. I loved going to high school. I mean, I came home at 2:30 p.m., like, I-I used to come home at

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11 p.m. in Korea, but was home 2:30, and I played flute since I was in fifth grade, and we were just—I took—I was part of band, and I did marching band.

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So, all these things were just fun, 'cause it's not something I—never thought I would experience in Korea. So, I really enjoyed my high school. That sounds like an exciting time.

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But then after you moved to Fairfax, Virginia, I know you moved around a lot in the US since then, so can you tell us a little bit about where else you've lived? From Fairfax—I went to high school there, then I decided to go to college in Indiana. So, I lived in West Lafayette, Indiana, that's where Purdue University is,

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so I lived there for four years. I–I got—after bachelor's, I got a job in Indianapolis, so I lived there for a year, but my-my mom and my sisters were in

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West Lafayette, my sisters were at Purdue as well, so I moved back. Then, I decided to go to grad school at Purdue. Then, after PhD, I came to Houston. Mhm. So, I know you found a lot of communities set in Virginia with other

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Asian Americans, but did you find difficulties finding community in other cities? How would you say the Asian American community in Houston is in comparison with other cities that you've lived in? Oh. Oh, yeah.

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So, I told you I didn't really experience cultural difference when I moved from Korea to Fairfax. The cultural shock that I had from, you know, moving from Virginia to Indiana was

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huge. That's when I really experienced the cultural shock. It was nothing like Fairfax, because I truly believed that anywhere in the US would be like Fairfax, Virginia. [RA: Mhm.] So, when I went to

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Indiana, that-that was shocking. There was not—I mean, the state itself wasn't very diverse, but Purdue campus was diverse. We had a lot of students from all over the world, really,

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and a big Asian community as well. My freshman year, I went to a Korean American Student Association meeting once. Then, I realized, "Oh, it's not my thing." They were very, very

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structured and I think how they wanted to run the organization was similar to Korean, like very rigid. Like, they would address each other with honorifics that I wasn't familiar with.

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So, I—after that meeting, I decided not to–not to pursue. But I, you know, in Houston—Houston's also very diverse, and a lot of different—I mean,

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even within Asian community, you know, there's a big Indian population and Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans. So I–I think, I—especially now I'm part of Korean association, like I'm part of Korean American Scientists and

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Engineers Association and Korean American Women in Science and Engineering. So, those—I think we have very supporting associations that are available for Koreans.

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[RA: Yeah.] I mean, not just Koreans, but, you know, Asians in general. Any minority groups. Yeah. I also lived in Fairfax County, Virginia, and then came to Houston. So, I've also seen how vibrant those Asian American communities are in both cities, or

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areas. Yeah. Where? Where in Fairfax? Reston.

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Reston, okay! Yeah! [RA: I love it there.] Reston, Virginia. Oh, I—so, then which high school—did—I mean, did you go to high school there? Yeah, I went to South Lakes High School.

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Oh, I went to Fairfax. Oh, cool. Yeah, we were there for, like, choir concerts sometimes. I remember we would go. We had very nice auditorium.

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Yes. That's why we went, [laughs] yeah. Yeah, for a high school, I mean, I thought it was pretty cool. It was a great high school. Yeah, so, with all these different cities and places you've lived in, is there one that

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you would call home now? Oh, I-I guess I would say Houston, but Fairfax is—it's—that's my, you know, home-home in the US, because that's the first place I lived in, you know?

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That's-that's home, but now I guess-I think Houston is my home. I've been here for nine years now, and it grew on me. I'm glad to hear that.

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So now, okay, we're kind of going back to college, but you have a Bachelor of Science in Food Science from Purdue University. So, how did you become interested in pursuing this major specifically? I didn't plan on it.

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I started as a biology major. And I wanted to go to pharmacy school to be a pharmacist like my dad. Pharmacy program, it's–it's a professional school, right?

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But you can apply to pharmacy school after second year in college, so you don't need bachelor's degree. You could just apply after sophomore year. I did that. I didn't get in, then I

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didn't want to do biology. I was just exploring my options. And I looked at food science. I didn't know it was a major till then.

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That really—I didn't have to waste any of my credits. So, prerequisite for pre-pharmacy, and, you know, first two years, you—classes you take as a food science major, were very similar. So I didn't have to waste any of my credit hours.

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So, I just made the switch. Right? It was all about the efficiency for me. [laughs] That seems like a great opportunity that just fell into your lap, yeah.

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Yeah. But it was—I'm–I'm glad I did that, because it's a very interesting field. It's a-it's a very...yeah, very interesting, but not very well known.

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Not many schools apply, I–I mean offer, food science as a major. It's usually schools in the, you know, middle of nowhere. It's part of agriculture, because I was part of—yeah, food science was part of College of Agriculture.

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So, not many people know about it, but food is everywhere, right? We—I mean everything is food science. Even bottled–bottled water, coffee, snacks, everything. So as, of course, as a major, I–I

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think it was great. I learned a lot. You know, I'm that person that reads all the labels in the grocery store aisle. I read it. Yeah, it was a very good–good subject, major too.

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It's really interesting. It's also the first time I'm kind of hearing about this as a field of study, too. Yeah, and it's very diverse too, because, you know, my classmates, they ended up working for—oh, and then, you know, you never have to

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worry about the food—or the job–job market, because food industry is always booming. And some of them, they had interns-internship at Gatorade, Frito-lay, Cargill, even McDonald's—you know, McDonald's, they have Hamburger University?

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You know, my friend was, like, flipping burgers all summer. So interesting. Yeah. So, what memories from your college experience have stood out to you and why? Memories. I had a lot of fun.

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I loved college as well. And, really, my friends, people that I met in college, all my fond or good memories

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involved my friends. And Purdue, if there's something about Purdue, we have instant bonds. Like, I don't need to know you, but if you have—if you're walking outside with a Purdue sweatshirt on, I'll

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talk to you. We have that instant bond. I don't know whether it's because, you know, Purdue is middle of a cornfield. [RA laughs] You just share certain experiences. I don't know. But yeah, like, I—I did–I did get

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to meet a lot of people from different parts of the world. And that's, yeah, that's–that's been really awesome, because now I get to go visit them, and that's how I travel. I go–different countries to go to their weddings or

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just to go visit them. That sounds so nice. So, with these friends that you had, do you have any of them who left a significant impact? Or maybe it could be professors or mentors, just anyone who left

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a significant impact on your life experiences? Oh, oh. I mean, yeah, almost all of my friends made some sort of impact, but I'll have to say my

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mentor—my mentors in graduate school. Because even though I went to the same university for my undergrad and my graduate program, the experiences I had were very different.

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You know, I also had fun as a graduate student, but it was just a different experience. I–I mean, obviously I was a different person. I was more mature.

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And I-I'm glad I got to experience both–both sides of the university. But mentors I had in grad school, like, they really shaped my adulthood.

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I guess when I was an undergrad it was all about, you know, finding out who I am. But in grad school, I think I learned how to-learned what it's like to be a real adult,

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you know, not just in science, but in life in general. So I—my PhD advisor, I learned a lot from him. And I also have a mentor who's—who is the reason why I went to grad school.

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Like, he's the one that encouraged me to go to grad school. That's so cool, because the next question I was going to ask was, what made you decide to pursue the PhD? And it was— Really, that–that was—that was it.

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So after working as a food-food scientist or food-food technologist, I knew that that wasn't my calling, like I enjoyed it for a while, but I–I didn't—that wasn't me.

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I didn't want to do that. So I was trying to go to pharmacy school again. I thought I would give another shot, you know? I thought that would be really fun to do.

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And then I—I was preparing for the–the applications and stuff. So, when I moved back to Purdue, I had an opportunity to work as a research assistant, like a lab

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tech, essentially at a startup pharmaceutical company that was started by a professor at Purdue. And that's when I really did research, knowing that what I'm doing is research.

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Then, I mean, throughout my undergrad, I worked at labs–in different labs. I've worked in virology lab, horticulture lab, in civil engineering labs. So was doing things—I'm not really

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thinking that it's research. I mean, I was undergrad student. I was, you know, I was just doing things, what I was told to do, but this was the first time I was, you know, really aware what I was doing,

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why I'm doing, and I really enjoyed that. So, I was thinking of applying to pharmacy schools. I was invited to different schools for an interview. Then I was asked,

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have you thought of going to grad school? And until then, I never thought I would go to grad school. Getting a PhD wasn't even my option. Like, it—I just never thought, you know?

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My dad got his PhD when he was, like, older. Like, I was in middle—I was in elementary school when he got his PhD, so I thought PhD was for, like, old people. Mhm. Yeah, but—

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Yeah, going to grad school was never my intention. I just happened to find research very interesting. I didn't know that it was a viable option for me. But when I had that experience, it was like, "Oh, I can see myself doing this.

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It's really fun. I enjoy doing this." So, I-I still went, you know, for pharmacy school interviews, and I got admissions. Then—I mean, that was important for me, [RA: Mhm.] to know that I—I had—I—when thought I was going to pharmacy school, I mean,

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that–that was my focus, but I'm choosing other things not because I didn't have an option, but I choose–I choose to do this because I want to. So, well, I'm glad.

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I'm glad I made the choice. Yeah, I think those are a great choice, and—in the long run, yeah, it's nice to see how your interests evolved over time. Yeah, you never know.

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Yeah, you never know where you'll end up, but were there any barriers you faced pursuing this PhD as a young woman, a minority in STEM? Would you say others were generally supportive? Oh, yeah, absolutely.

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I didn't face that until I was—until I came to Houston, really. But throughout my PhD, you know, Purdue grad schools are very diverse.

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[laughs] There are a lot of international students. A lot of women, especially pharmacy. I think pharmacy is one of the disciplines that have good gender balance.

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We have a lot of women. So, it was—yeah, I mean, everyone was supportive and, I-I–I'm pretty sure I got some cushions, some protections, because I was student.

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I was—sheltered environment, but yeah, during—getting a PhD at Purdue, I didn't experience any. But you said it was different once you came to Houston? Yeah, that's the real world [laughs].

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I mean, I was-I mean, I'm–I'm still in school, right? I-I work at school. But as a–as a postdoc, that's it. Especially in the medical center, I think it–it was a bit

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different when I first came, just—because I never experienced that, it was a bit shocking when I was automatically—or people automatically thought that I was, you know, a student or I was a nurse,

00:34:56.460 - 00:35:12.630

so that-that was different. Yeah. So, moving on to your career–career and being out in the real world, as you said. So, you started as a food technologist and then became an assistant professor in the surgical oncology division at Baylor.

00:35:13.520 - 00:35:28.690

So, you've had this wide breadth of scientific jobs. So, how do you think your professional interests evolved over time? How did you end up where you are now? Serendipity, really [laughs].

00:35:29.740 - 00:35:50.290

I-I just went with the flow. Follow–follow the—follow the current. Yeah, it—like, really—my career trajectory was not anything I

00:35:50.660 - 00:36:09.220

planned. I–I just, you know, yeah, really, I-I was just, you know, minding my own business, doing my own work. And I guess when the opportunity was presented, I

00:36:09.220 - 00:36:16.090

just took it. Mhm, yeah. You just followed your interests. I think that's really admirable.

00:36:16.150 - 00:36:29.140

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, we saw that you have a PhD rather than an MD, but you still kind of work in the medical field. Could you tell us about whether you collaborate with physicians or if your work is mostly in the lab?

00:36:30.690 - 00:36:47.910

Both. I–I do—so it's–it's interesting, because I am a PhD researcher in a clinical department, in the surgery department. I always have to say, "I'm not a surgeon. I'm a PhD, a scientist." What

00:36:49.960 - 00:37:06.900

I do in this department—I mean, my–my background is pharmaceutical science. But my research, my PhD dissertation work was very much biomedical engineering.

00:37:07.370 - 00:37:27.740

So, I did some tissue engineering, I developed 3D tumor models using hydrogels, so—and I did a little bit of microfluidics with the collaborators. So, I'm, like, leveraging all that information, whatever I

00:37:27.810 - 00:37:42.400

learned. And now I'm, you know, we're developing biomaterials for surgical applications like surgical mesh, hernia mesh, and vascular graft. Mhm.

00:37:42.710 - 00:37:59.990

And, you know, my passion also is developing drug delivery systems. So, we're again using the biomaterials for drug delivery systems, so that's kind

00:37:59.990 - 00:38:14.790

of surgically relevant. It can be used for surg-surgical applications. So, that's the research that I do, and I have surgeons who are my collaborators, and I also have other

00:38:15.470 - 00:38:23.650

physicians that we collaborate. I think that's such an interesting field of research. But how do you- I think so too!

00:38:23.680 - 00:38:42.420

Yeah [laughs]. How do you divide your time between all this research and teaching and mentoring your students that you have under you? So, I don't teach [RA: Oh.] in classroom setting. I think we–we probably have more faculty than students,

00:38:42.490 - 00:39:00.970

because we don't have undergrad students at Baylor College of Medicine, and we only have graduate programs and MD programs. But I do have students from Rice, actually. Most of my undergrad students—researchers are from Rice.

00:39:02.380 - 00:39:17.920

And there's—I mean, I-I really don't divide my times, because it's all part of research. Students are doing their own experiments, they're contributing to the research program that they have,

00:39:21.760 - 00:39:32.720

yeah. Was it difficult to build this team that you have of postdocs and grad students and lab techs? Absolutely [laughs].

00:39:36.280 - 00:39:57.590

I think that, you know, we—as a—as a graduate student or even as a postdoc, we didn't get that training. When you are a PI, when you have your own lab, it's like running a small

00:39:57.590 - 00:40:19.580

company. But we learn how to do science, we learn how to think, but we don't know how to run the company, like how to manage people. So, these are the skills that I had to develop. So, it–it took some time

00:40:20.180 - 00:40:37.880

to figure out what works for me. Yeah, so there–there was a steep learning curve, but I'm–I'm getting better at it. Mhm. And then when COVID struck, was it difficult for your lab to adapt to that?

00:40:39.450 - 00:40:55.370

Oh, yeah. Well, first we had to, you know, shut down the lab. We were not allowed to do any new experiments, and I think a lot of people were, you know, they were just bored,

00:40:55.400 - 00:41:12.510

too. They wanted to do something, but they couldn't, so we had to kind of come up with a plan. Because we're—I mean, we're still getting paid. And so we created like

00:41:14.350 - 00:41:33.120

Journal Club where we, you know, discuss papers and new ideas. So that–that took some time to get used to. Then, you know, that–that didn't last very long because we were slowly—we

00:41:35.970 - 00:41:51.860

were able to spend, like, a few hours a week in the lab, so it wasn't too bad. But initially, you know, just like everyone else, you just had to adapt. Mhm. How many members of your team are from other countries?

00:41:51.940 - 00:42:11.080

And is it difficult to attract international students and team members to this field? In research, I think it's not hard to recruit international students. I mean all—almost

00:42:12.310 - 00:42:32.700

all the students were born in the US. But they're-they're like a second and third generations immigrant. [RA: Mhm.] Almost all. [laughs] No, majority.

00:42:32.820 - 00:42:56.790

I guess majority. Plus, you know, I'm–I'm also international, [RA: Mhm.] right? So it's—I don't think it's hard for me to recruit international students, but I-I prefer to have

00:42:59.120 - 00:43:12.250

diversity in the lab, so I try to keep that in mind. [RA: Mhm.] And would you say, like, America has, like, a leading edge in this type of innovation? Do you think that attracts international students?

00:43:15.370 - 00:43:33.240

Yeah, absolutely. I think what's hindering that is the-the visa processing, you know, 'cause it takes really long time and there is no guarantee, so I-I think it's really

00:43:33.530 - 00:43:49.770

unfortunate that we're not able to recruit, like, a lot of talents because of that. Yeah, it seems like such an arbitrary barrier. Yeah. And in terms of funding, do you need to apply for grants and fellowships for your

00:43:49.770 - 00:44:03.720

job? And can you tell us a little bit about what that process is like? Excruciating [laughs]. No, I mean, it-it is. It's not fun when you're doing it.

00:44:05.010 - 00:44:21.020

I–you know, we write a lot of grant applications to the federal agency, funding agencies. You know, it's just, it's—I mean, there's nothing that's easy.

00:44:21.290 - 00:44:38.110

This is not easy. You're–you're asking a lot of money [laughs], and those are the taxpayer's money, right, so you have to put a lot of effort. It's, a—it's an arduous

00:44:38.860 - 00:44:57.670

process. You have to, [sighs] you know, you have to think a lot [laughs] about things that happened, things that could happen, things that may not happen, but you still have to think about it.

00:45:00.760 - 00:45:18.550

But I-I honestly enjoy it, but I-I enjoy it more once I'm done [laughs] because I really feel that that's when I grow. Like I, you know, I study a lot during that time, so I gain knowledge.

00:45:19.320 - 00:45:31.060

[RA: Mhm.] So that makes me feel better about myself that I'm like, "Oh, I feel like I'm smarter!" Yeah. After overcoming all those obstacles, what would you say is the most rewarding part of all of your work?

00:45:33.750 - 00:45:51.390

Just in general, or about— [RA: Yeah.] oh, in general. I really like seeing students doing well. [RA: Mhm.] My–my students—"my students" sounds wrong, but the students that I work with,

00:45:51.670 - 00:46:12.730

when they—when I see them being excited about their results, their work, like, that makes me—that gives me tremendous happiness. Like, it's—yeah, it's a very rewarding experience

00:46:13.380 - 00:46:28.090

to see that, and that I was able to provide some [RA: Mhm.] so they can, you know, experience that. It's very rewarding. Mhm. That seems huge, but what about you personally?

00:46:28.690 - 00:46:38.010

With so many publications and honors that we've all read about now, what would you say you're most proud of? None of them [laughs]. [Laughs] It's all your students?

00:46:39.070 - 00:47:01.690

None of them, really, those are—yeah, it's—I-I don't–I don't know. I-I honestly don't think much about it, publications. They-they make me feel good, yeah. [RA: Yeah.] I'm happy about it, but I, you know, I—these

00:47:02.260 - 00:47:19.390

are—[sighs] they come and go. 'Cause, you know, I get any paper published, it makes me feel good because, you know, to–to get a paper published, you have to experience so many rejections.

00:47:19.570 - 00:47:39.060

[RA: Mhm.] But any—yeah, any work that we were able to make it accessible to other people, I think that's—yeah, but as a-as a biomedical researcher, whatever we make or we work on

00:47:39.540 - 00:47:56.590

in the lab, our goal, our dream would be, you know, seeing our materials being used in a clinic, right? So, when I get emails or when

00:47:56.630 - 00:48:16.440

someone tells me that what I—what we do in the lab is very valuable, and that we're doing it-we're doing a good work, like, that's–that's very rewarding. Yeah, I think it's that people-to-people connection that sounds so [CS: Yeah, yeah.]

00:48:16.750 - 00:48:30.650

nice to have, and that part doesn't really just come and go like the rest of it, so— That's why we gotta cherish it when it happens! It's so amazing to hear about that. Yeah, that's all I have to ask about my–my section of the interview, so I'm going to

00:48:30.650 - 00:48:45.550

pass it over to Grace, but thank you so much. Ah, no, thank you! All right. So, for my section of the interview, I'm just going to ask a few questions regarding more of, like, the cultural identity aspect of your story.

00:48:46.270 - 00:49:00.870

So, first of all, how would you identify yourself ethnically? Korean. Kore-Korean? Yeah, that's the—that's where I check the box. Mhm, right.

00:49:02.740 - 00:49:21.640

Kind of on that spectrum of like Korean, Korean American, to like American, where do you think you kind of fall and do you kind of, like, lean towards one side more, or—? Now, I—I mean, I identify myself as Korean American

00:49:22.140 - 00:49:39.740

because I have an American passport now, so—but that doesn't really mean much, right? 'Cause when you have this [gestures to face], when you look like this [laughs], it doesn't matter what your passport says [laughs]. But, I really—I-I thought about this a lot: I

00:49:41.170 - 00:49:57.350

don't feel Korean enough, and I don't feel A-American enough and I'm perfectly fine with it. I'm happy with it. Like, I-I don't need to belong to a certain group.

00:49:58.440 - 00:50:16.300

Right. For sure, yeah. How would you describe the Asian American community in the field of medicine and specifically in the field of surgery or clinical research? Oh, I can't say I know much about in the medical—I

00:50:17.540 - 00:50:39.630

mean, in–in–in physician's community because I'm not part of that, but in the scientific community, I think we have—I think we generally have dec—a good-good relationship, just among—I

00:50:40.730 - 00:50:59.090

mean, it—I'm, like I said, I'm part of Korean American association and I know that they're—I have really good colleagues who are from, like, other Asian countries. But a few years ago, I don't know whether you guys were here for that, but

00:51:00.050 - 00:51:19.590

during COVID, we had a "Stop Asian Hate" rally outside of Baylor, and I was part of that organizing event. But that really

00:51:21.190 - 00:51:34.410

brought Asian community together, whether you are Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai, like it–it was very heartwarming. Mhm. Yeah, for sure.

00:51:34.790 - 00:51:50.740

[CS: To witness that, yeah.] Mhm. So, you've mentioned your Korean American Scientists and Engineers Association and also the Korean American Women in Science and Engineering communities. So, could you tell us a little bit more about that, in terms of, like, how many

00:51:50.740 - 00:52:06.280

members are there, and which states do the members represent, and kind of, like, the missions and goals of these organizations? Woah. I hope they don't kick me out of that organization after this [laughs]. I don't–I don't know much!

00:52:08.600 - 00:52:27.810

No, I—I'm part of both organizations, not because I have a huge—a big mission to make contributions. I mean, really, I was having fun going to these events and,

00:52:28.850 - 00:52:51.060

you know, that's how I got involved in—actually, I'm going to be the chapter president starting July for one year. So—I mean, even then, I-I—you know, just having fun with fellow Koreans, it's kind of

00:52:51.060 - 00:53:09.780

nice to be around the people who speak the same language, who love the same food, who know what's going on, you know, like, that-that's kind of nice. But really, Korean American Scientists and Engineering-Engineers

00:53:11.830 - 00:53:30.920

Association is, like, huge. It's all over the country, and I believe they're, like, a couple thousand, like two or three thousand members across the country, and in Texas, there are four chapters: one in Austin, one in

00:53:31.040 - 00:53:51.700

Rio Grande Valley, one in Austin—oh, no, not Austin—Dallas, North Texas chapter, and then we're South Hou—South Texas chapter, so that covers Houston area and Texas A&M. We have about—I think we have

00:53:52.870 - 00:54:09.690

couple hundred members, not just in the medical center, there are also people from the oil and gas industry and, you know, energy sector, like, all of—just in the greater Houston area.

00:54:10.010 - 00:54:29.490

[GP: Mhm.] And, you know, it's really to, you know, have that sense of community. You know, we all have, you know—I mean, we have different backgrounds, but we need to have similarities, right?

00:54:29.520 - 00:54:48.180

Just—we have shared culture. So, I think it's a good—to have that support group, just to really have that sense of community, and that's what I think personally [laughs].

00:54:48.690 - 00:55:03.940

I-I mean, I'm sure there's, you know, "advancing the science and engineering" and, you know, "supporting the younger generations." I mean, I—yeah, I support that too, but for me, it's really the sense of community, and I-I think that's important, whatever it is.

00:55:04.610 - 00:55:19.580

You know, whether it's a Korean American—and I was part of Postdoc Association here at Baylor when I was postdoc, and why I joined? Like, I needed that sense of community, and I wanted to

00:55:19.730 - 00:55:35.960

contribute so other people can have the sense of community, so for me, that's very important. Yeah, I think having that sense of community is definitely very important. So, how would you—how often are, like, the meetings or events for these organizations?

00:55:36.010 - 00:55:52.730

And could you tell us a little bit more about what they exactly look like? Is it a lot of, like, socializing, sharing about scientific works, or— Yeah, I'm glad you asked [laughing]. We–we have a lot of events throughout the year.

00:55:53.540 - 00:56:14.600

The most recent one was beginning—a few weeks ago, there was a national math and science competition that-that was supported by the headquarter, you know, KSEA organization, and we had a local—our chapter had, like, on-site

00:56:19.230 - 00:56:38.010

events where kids come and take math exams and they—for science, they got to make things. We do that every year and we also have symposiums, a regional conference where we invite faculty.

00:56:38.860 - 00:56:58.590

So, it's more like a science conference but for Korean Americans, but any—anyone really is welcome to attend, so it gives opportunities for students and postdocs to present their work as well. And starting, like, two years ago, we started the

00:57:00.180 - 00:57:19.130

faculty award as well, so we select the top candidates and then give them the award, and that–that is from faculty donations, faculty within the TMC, we make donations and do that.

00:57:19.130 - 00:57:35.190

And we have–we have a Young Generation Forum, it's more for students and trainees who are interested in their career advancement.

00:57:35.500 - 00:57:53.130

So, we have, you know, like, if you're i-interested in industry, we invite panels and, you know, it's fun events like that, you can see. Networking, also, you get to meet people from different universities—A&M,

00:57:54.100 - 00:58:13.860

they come down here for that event and, you know, it's just a fun event. And in between, we have social members night and, you know, just to have fun and meet people. Yeah, I think it's great that these events are meant for, like—[CS: I think you should

00:58:13.860 - 00:58:32.590

come!] Oh, yes, I'll definitely check one of them out, but I think it's cool that it's meant for like a wide range, like, of ages of people, from like children, students, to faculty, so that's really cool to hear. And just one last question about these organizations: do these communities

00:58:32.910 - 00:58:48.440

collaborate at all with the similar organizations that represent other ethnic groups in the US? I would really love to do it. As–as now—as of now,

00:58:51.400 - 00:59:10.850

we col—do have some joint events with Oil and Energy Association. [GP: Mhm.] Yeah, Korean–Korean American oil—except professionals who are in oil-specifically in oil and gas industry, they

00:59:10.850 - 00:59:23.520

have their own organizations. So, for this Young Generation Forum, we work with them to have a joint event. But I—yeah, I'm actually talking to a

00:59:24.240 - 00:59:44.390

few people who are involved in Italian, Italian-American scientists organization and a Greek scien-scientist organizations. My–my friends are involved, so I'm trying to, you know, get some information.

00:59:45.040 - 00:59:59.210

Maybe we can have, you know, just, like, a networking event. I think it'll-it'll be a very fun thing to do. So, I'm thinking about it.

00:59:59.370 - 01:00:16.760

Hopefully–hopefully we'll have a chance to do it. And other Asian—I-I'm not familiar. I know that there's a Chinese American association, and I-I was told that it's very active.

01:00:17.390 - 01:00:34.210

I just haven't had a chance to talk to anyone who's involved in it, but it'd be nice to, you know, just have a social gathering event. Yeah, that's awesome. I think it'd be great to see more, like, global interactions

01:00:34.250 - 01:00:47.940

between these communities. Yeah, I know right? Yeah. For our next question, we saw that you're involved in a flute choir, so could you tell us a little bit more about that and also any other hobbies that you

01:00:51.080 - 01:01:04.430

have? I-yeah, I-I've been playing the flute since I was in fifth grade, so I was ten. That was a very good hobby that

01:01:05.500 - 01:01:19.670

was forced upon [laughs]–it was my mom's idea. I wanted to learn cello. I love cello, but my mom thought that I was too old to start with cello. My mom had a big vision, I think.

01:01:19.950 - 01:01:37.970

She-she never explicitly said it, but I think she was hoping one of her daughters would pursue music as a career, so we all learned different instruments. I played flute, my younger sister plays violin, my youngest sister plays cello.

01:01:39.480 - 01:01:57.360

So—I mean, I liked it, but I didn't want to practice because I had schools and stuff. But things, you know, really changed when we came to the States, 'cause I was in band class.

01:01:58.250 - 01:02:11.560

For 90 minutes, we were playing music. We had concerts three times a year, and I was a part of marching band, and it was–it was just fun. And then I continued, and I brought my flute, I-I took my

01:02:11.640 - 01:02:31.070

flute to college with me, and then I-I played for fun—at the time, I wasn't really involved in anything. Then, when I moved to Houston—oh, I gue–I guess, yeah I-I used to play flute at the temple event in Chicago.

01:02:31.070 - 01:02:48.100

And then here, I wanted to join the Texas Medical Center Orchestra. [GP: Mhm.] When I first moved here, I saw them performing at the Methodist hospital lobby area, I was like, "I want to play with the orchestra.

01:02:48.520 - 01:03:07.530

How fun would that be?" Then, you know, the orchestra, you only need, like, three flute players, max. [GP: Yeah.] And I didn't think that I would make the cut, so I gave up on that. Then, I met

01:03:09.140 - 01:03:25.550

a–I met a—I shouldn't say person—well, it's—she's now a friend, but when I met her, at completely different event, but somehow we were talking about the oversized t-shirt.

01:03:26.810 - 01:03:42.850

Oh, it wa–it was a science and engineering fair that I—she recruited me as a volunteer because I love judging at the science fair because it's so fun. So, they were-they were giving us an oversized t-shirt. It was only one XL or large size.

01:03:42.850 - 01:04:00.440

So we're just talking, you know, commenting on the size of t-shirt. And she said, "Oh, I'm just gonna give it to my daughter for her marching band practice." I was like, "Oh! Yeah, I used to wear an oversized t-shirt for my marching band camp." And so, "Oh, what instrument do you play?" "I played flute." "I have a flute choir.

01:04:00.440 - 01:04:17.180

Do you want to come play with us?" So, that's–that's how I was recruited to the Shimmer Flute Choir. So, Donna, who's the director, she's—you know, so, she invited me, and then I've been playing with them since then.

01:04:17.180 - 01:04:29.690

I think that was 2016. [GP: Oh, wow.] So, we rehearse every other weekend and we have concerts throughout the year, different themes, yeah. Don-Donna's faculty at U of H.

01:04:29.690 - 01:04:43.730

[GP: Wow.] Yeah. So, it's–it's really fun. We play—we perform at retired—retirement communities for Christmas.

01:04:45.150 - 01:05:02.310

It's always fun. And we used to play at the Chapel Hill Historic Museum. The Historic Museum of Chapel Hill or something like that. We-we used to play there, and we haven't been there in a few years.

01:05:02.340 - 01:05:18.190

And COVID changed a lot, because, you know, flute is not a very COVID-friendly instrument [laughs]. [GP: Yeah.] Yeah. But yeah, we–we started again and we–we had very

01:05:19.430 - 01:05:35.940

fun concerts last year, it was very well-received. So, we have themes, like "space-themed" we had last year, and then "caffeinated-themed" concert, so all the music we played were

01:05:36.500 - 01:05:50.410

coffee-related, coffee or tea. It was so fun, yeah. That's awesome. So, are the members of this flute choir mostly, like, people in the science field as well?

01:05:50.410 - 01:06:04.940

[CS: No.] Or is it just, like, general— All over. Yeah, all over disciplines. We have a retired lawyer—I mean, there are music directors, like professional musicians as well, but we have engineers,

01:06:06.450 - 01:06:21.860

students, yeah, it's very, very broad. For sure. As our final question, if you could go back in time and give a piece of advice to your younger self, what would it be?

01:06:23.390 - 01:06:41.500

Oh, that's a good question. Mmm, work a little hard [laughs]. Have some discipline. That–that—I-I really enjoyed my youth.

01:06:44.510 - 01:07:02.660

I mean, I did what I had to do. I mean, I—you know, I was being a good Asian student, I was getting good grades, I did what I was supposed to do. But if I could go back in time, I would like to, you know,

01:07:03.610 - 01:07:24.570

tell myself to be a bit more disciplined. Just learn how to...to be more responsible. Yeah, because I think it-it's better if you have that

01:07:24.570 - 01:07:45.730

experience from the early–early on. I believe that I had a very privileged childhood or life in general, so I didn't really think about all that until I was an adult, like semi-adult.

01:07:49.410 - 01:08:04.730

So, it-it would have been—I think my life would have been different if I were a little more responsible and had some discipline. I see. All right, I think that's all the questions we had.

01:08:06.100 - 01:08:16.630

So, thank you so much for the interview today. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. This–this was fun, I—yeah.

01:08:16.630 - 01:08:26.980

[laughs] Yeah, for sure. I enjoyed it. Yeah. But do–do you have any, like, questions, just—not–not

01:08:28.080 - 01:08:43.860

the ones that in the list, but do you have any questions? I don't know, did anything just come up that you wanted to share [GP: Yeah.] that maybe you didn't get a chance to? Well I wanted to ask your–your backgrounds.

01:08:43.860 - 01:08:54.990

Like, what are you–what are you guys—what do you guys study and how long have you been at Rice? Sure. I'm a sophomore here. I'm studying social policy analysis and English.

01:08:59.120 - 01:09:11.750

Ah. I'm a freshman at Rice. I'm studying neuroscience and hopefully a minor in Asian studies. I'm originally from Seattle, but I also lived in Korea

01:09:12.450 - 01:09:23.950

throughout my elementary school years. Oh, wow. So, how do you guys feel about, you know, being Asian-American? Like, what it-what it means to you?

01:09:24.830 - 01:09:38.730

Mhm, I'd have to think about it. Yeah, so I was born here in the United States, but then I also moved to India for just a few years of my elementary school experience. And that was honestly, like, some of the most fun I ever had in my childhood.

01:09:39.140 - 01:09:53.300

I just—I loved being there so much. I feel like the culture definitely did feel different in India versus here growing up. I feel like I just had so much, like, community and—like in my own neighborhood, I feel like I could go outside and play with the kids all the time.

01:09:53.740 - 01:10:05.000

Whereas in America, I don't know, we just didn't—I just didn't see kids playing outside where I lived as much, but maybe that's just where I was. That's interesting. It was just very community-oriented in India, I feel like.

01:10:06.270 - 01:10:21.910

Yeah, I mean, that's what it was like when I was growing up in Korea. Like, I played with neighbors' kids outside, but I don't think that's the case nowadays in Korea. Yeah. Very similar for me as well.

01:10:23.020 - 01:10:41.380

Like, what you mentioned earlier, I remember having, like, Saturday half days, and after the half days we would just go to the playground and play and things. So, I would say I have, like, really sweet memories from childhood in Korea, but when I first moved to the States, I would say it was pretty difficult because of

01:10:41.380 - 01:10:58.260

the language barrier and just the cultural difference. But, I think over time I really came to appreciate like the bicultural aspect of my identity and how I'm able to, like, fully understand both cultures and kind of, like, utilize it in, like,

01:10:58.260 - 01:11:15.060

favorable ways. So, I'm very thankful for that. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I wasn't—I-I didn't really care much about that, you know? Like, I-I was just—I'm just an individual.

01:11:15.130 - 01:11:33.090

I don't want to be identified as Korean or American. I didn't choose, like I-I didn't appreciate that very much. Like, I didn't understand why they're—why we're labeling ourselves as "Korean" or "Korean American." Like, why can't we just be who we are,

01:11:33.740 - 01:11:51.090

you know? So I—that was really the thing, especially in college and even in high school. I didn't go out of my way to make Korean friends because there were other options. Like I-I'd rather, you know, make friends with other people from

01:11:51.090 - 01:12:07.240

different parts of the world. So that's—that was my mindset throughout college. So, all my friends from college, they're, you know, they're–they're non-Korean, non-American, you know, they're

01:12:07.340 - 01:12:23.550

all foreign nationals. In grad school as well, there were—there weren't that many Koreans in grad school, especially in the discipline that I was in. So, most of my friends were Indians, and I mean, there were–there were a lot of

01:12:23.550 - 01:12:41.260

Indians and Chinese in grad school, so I was friends with them. And there were a few people from, you know, South America and some European countries and Africa. But it wasn't until I came to Houston—because,

01:12:42.540 - 01:12:59.190

you know, being in Houston was the first time I was really on my own. I was far away from my sisters. You know, I was, like, only one in Houston. My sisters, before, when I lived in—when I was in Indiana, they were, like, two hours

01:12:59.760 - 01:13:16.070

away from me, so I could drive over the weekend, go see them. But I was, like, really alone-alone. And not–not that I was—I missed having that, or just being part of the Korean community, it was just

01:13:16.300 - 01:13:36.240

fun. I-I found it somewhat liberating, you know, just talking the same language, and we eat the same food, and it's—it was just fun, and that's how I got involved in this Korean American communities. But I—yeah, really, I have no like

01:13:36.760 - 01:13:58.260

ambition of making a huge, big dent in the–in the Korean community, I don't really care for that. I mean, maybe they wouldn't appreciate hearing this, but [laughs] but yeah, I-I'm doing this because I'm having fun with with

01:13:58.570 - 01:14:17.110

other people. And really, I-I grew—being more appreciative. Especially nowadays, it's really good time to be Korean. Like, people are so interested in Korean culture, Korean

01:14:17.170 - 01:14:26.740

food, so I'm–I'm you know really riding it. I feel like Korean film has also been so huge, [CS: Yeah, yeah.] like I've really enjoyed getting to learn more of that. For sure.

01:14:26.830 - 01:14:44.450

So, I-I-I think that, you know, we—right now, we have something good going on, so it's—I think it's fun. That's–that's why I want to collaborate with other–other ethnic groups, associations, just to—because,

01:14:45.480 - 01:15:03.000

you know, I mean, I-I like hanging out with Koreans, but I also like hanging out with non-Koreans, and I think that we need–need that exposure. I mean, after all, we live in the States. Like, if we want to, you know, just focus on being Korean and, you

01:15:03.870 - 01:15:21.110

know—while that's great, then what's the point of living–living in Houston where it's so diverse? So, yeah, that's what I think. Oh, well, I'm not going to take any more of your time, but thank you so much.

01:15:21.210 - 01:15:31.580

This was fun. Yeah, this was our first interview and it's just been such a great experience. I've enjoyed it so much, too. Oh! I was, like, sweating [laughs].

01:15:31.580 - 01:15:40.880

We couldn't tell! No, it was wonderful. Yeah. Oh, well, great. Thank you so much. Thank you.

01:15:40.880 - 01:15:49.330

Thank you so much. Bye! [RA: Have a nice day.] You too. Bye! And best of luck to you, both of you. Thank you.

01:15:50.410 - 01:15:50.880

Thank you.