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Alright, uh we’re here with Mr. Cecil Fong for the Houston Asian American Archive. Today is March 22, 2018. I’m Mary Claire Neal. And I’m Amber Lu.

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Alright, welcome Mr. Fong! Will you tell us just where and when you were born, and some about your earliest memories? Uh, I was born in Taipei, Taiwan.

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And, I was, I was there ‘till uh, I think middle school, in Taiwan. And uh, my early memories of Taiwan was Taipei I think, I was born in Taipei you know, so it’s ver--,

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it’s a uh, we--, my parents moved there when, after the fall of uh communist China. They uh moved to Taiwan and so I was born there. And uh, so my, my dad was a uh,

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works for the government. The Taiwanese government. And then, uh, and uh he he eventually became uh a diplomat. And uh he also so

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he was uh he was sent to uh other countries. Uh he went to Vietnam, uh Thailand, uh Indonesia… a number of countries. You know so, but uh I was there ‘till,

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until my middle school and then uh, I went to Vietnam, whole family went to Vietnam. ‘Cause my, that was my first, my dad’s first uh, foreign assignment. So I was in, I went to Saigon at the time.

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And that was during the Vietnam War. So it was actually uh, somewhat dangerous I guess at the time. Um, but uh, but you know I was fairly, fairly, you

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know I was a kid you know so really didn’t pay that much attention to, to what’s going on, uh per se. And um, and you know T- Taiwan is, it’s you know the, it’s fairly rural country at the time, not that many

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people, you know. So uh, so the uh, I remember growing up with the, with the… we lived among the farms or fields, you know crops and so forth.

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Even in, near the city Taipei, you know so. And uh, so it’s fairly, you know it’s fairly uh rigorous fairly rigorous uh, school, schoolwork in Taiwan.

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It’s uh, pretty much everybody, all the kids study all the time so .... And then uh, and then and then and then when I went to uh, when I went to Saigon, then uh, then I went to a uh, a Chinese school.

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Um, and it’s… it’s a, it’s a Chinese school they teach you English and Chinese. You know so it’s uh, so I actually didn’t really learn Vietnamese.

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Uh it was uh, it was, everything’s taught in Chinese and English at the time. You know so that’s kind, that’s kind of when I, that’s when I picked up English, um, more or less, uh, when I was in Saigon for a year studying

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English and Chinese. And um, and then when uh, and then it was nine-- I think that was 1968. 1968 that’s when the uh, during the Vietnam, Vietnam

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War. And then 1968 that’s, they had a um, what they call the Tet Offensive. That’s when VC, or Viet Cong, they actually attack Saigon. You know so, um, which took everybody by surprise.

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You know so, I remember it was at night. You know it’s, we just hear these uh, pops you know, pops around the city. And they sound like firecrackers.

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You know but uh, and then… the uh, the electricity was out but you hear, you see these flashes, you know of uh, lights. You know and, and uh so, … yeah you heard on the news that the, the Viet Cong was actually attacking

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Saigon so a lot of street battles going on. And uh, so not until the next morning when things settled down when the, uh the Vietnamese army repelled the VC and took the city back.

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When uh, things kind of settled down a little bit but it’s, and uh, so it’s because of that, because of the, the, the Tet Offensive, you know, my dad felt like it wasn’t that safe for the

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kids to be in the city anymore. You know, so that’s why, that’s when I uh, he sent me to, to Houston to study here in uh, for high school. And uh, my mom, happens, happens, my mom’s aunt was living in

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Houston at, at the time. So I stayed with her. And I came, and I um, I went to uh, I go to, I went to Lamar High School.

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Lamar High School for two years. And then Bellaire High School for one year before I graduate. So, and I was staying with, uh, my aunt this whole time. In, in the, at that time.

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So, so I came here and my brother, I had one brother, he went, he went back to Taipei to study in Taipei. So, then we were, we were, we were separated. But uh, but it’s I had

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relatives here in Houston. So, that’s how I, how I came to, to Houston to, to study. Did you keep in touch with your relatives when you were in Houston and they were in Saigon? Uh, well even, yeah, when I was here,

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um, yeah I still have uh, my mother’s sister lives in Taipei. Okay, of course my parents stayed in Saigon. You know and even after we left, so, so, so, so they were

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actually, my parents were still there ‘till 1975. That’s the, that’s when the Vietname-- when the, the Vietnamese government fell. Uh so my dad was actually one of the last to leave you see these pictures of

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uh, you know the, you know people on the, on top of the American Embassy in, in Saigon, where everybody trying to get on the helicopter, the last helicopter to leave, uh, before the VC you know uh,

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came into the c- came into the city. Yeah so uh, yeah so my dad was one of the s- one of the last helicopters that actually leaves, that leaves Saigon, so. But he was a- he was there for another six years

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after I left. And, so during that time you know even when I studied here, you know I actually, I went back, you know, to Saigon during the summer to visit a couple times. You know so it’s, yeah it’s ok- you

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know it was actually ok at uh, after the Tet Offensive, the battles were taking place elsewhere in Vietnam. But Saigon itself was okay for the most part, so. It was ok- you know the… so it was ok for my brother

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and I go back and visit my parents during the summer. You know so I went back a couple times, went to Taipei a couple times, uh, when I was studying here. Yeah so, uh and that was- in, even when even when

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uh, yeah so… I think I came, I came into uh, I came to Rice, uh, I was uh, after high school I came to Rice. I studied at, at Rice.

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So, and then I, I started in 1971 at Rice. I didn’t graduate until 1976. Uh, I was five years. I got a chemical engineering degree, masters.

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Uh, so the, so when I was studying here, I was, you know, I think I went back maybe one more time. And of course my parents they, they, they would come to the States from time to time to visit so we, we kind of more or less kept in

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touch this uh, this this this whole time. Uh, it was, but it was, I think it really helped that I studied in, I studied English in, in Saigon. So when I came here uh I can understand English for the most

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part. Uh, I just wasn’t very fluent at it. But, so, but it helped, helped with my adjustment by having that one-year English. And by going to

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high school here also kind of helped me sharpen my uh, my English language skills before I came to Rice. What kind of values or stories did your parents influence you with and pass down to you? Uh, well, yeah, I think it’s

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like mostly uh, mostly, most Asian parents you know, you study hard. Study hard, you know, you want to um find a good job you know and all that. So um, and then that was

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uh… and then yeah, I guess at the, at the uh, at the time I was you know, pretty, pretty much um, I di- I didn’t you know, you know there was uh, I was going, you know going, going to

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Taiwan, to, to Vietnam, to come to here, you know so there was uh, a lot of uh, adjustments I guess to the, to the new environment all throughout, you know.

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So um, but uh, I think the, the studying kind of helped me steady myself. That was kind of the focus even though I was moving around quite a bit you know. That was kind of, uh, it was

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a focus on my studies, uh, all throughout. And the, and in the fact that I study in the, in Taiwan and, and in Vietnam, then their, their education standard was ahead of US.

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So, so I was, so actually the, you know I knew a lot of the math and science stuff before I came here. So it made it easier for me to adjust here. You know so, I was, I got, I was acing the, all the STEM stuff

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you know. I just had to work on my English. That was kind of my, my uh, my weakness. But uh, so yeah so that’s uh… actually it’s very uh, you know the, I guess it’s just the way I, the way I

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was inter- I was interested in kind of math and science and kind of fell into you know uh studying chemical engineering as kind of uh, a natural you know. You know so it wasn’t uh, yeah

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I didn’t really struggle to f- try to find something to do. You know I knew I liked math and science and went into, went into uh, pick ChemE to study and… yeah it was, and I did well in in uh, you know in uh…

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And so the uh you know and then when I finished studying I found a, I was able to find a job as a chemical engineer in Houston. You know so, everything, so everything went fairly smoothly in that regard.

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Did you have any best friends growing up? Or were you and your brother close? Uh, yeah my, yeah my brother and I were pretty close. Uh, but then we were separated.

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You know, we lived apart for a long time. Uh, and then, ever since high school I guess we’ve kind of lived apart. And but then he did come over here after, after I uh started Rice. He came here just to attend high school in

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Houston. So then we were together again in the same city. You know so, uh, and I have uh, yeah I still have um, you know I have some, you know couple friends that uh, that I had in high school.

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In, in in Lamar. And uh, that I still kept in touch with. You know even, even uh the, even to this date. Because at the time you know it’s, uh, there’s not that many um, there’s not that many Asians.

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You know in… in the high school those days. You know so, it’s only a few you know so I had a couple of good, you know good buddies who were also Asians.

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You know so we’ll still kind of keep in touch you know at that time so. And even when I came to Rice you know the, th-- that, not that many Asians at Rice either. You know maybe fifty at most, you know, under and -- undergraduate and graduate together, Asians.

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You know so, and so I have some, you know I still kept in touch with uh, quite a few of the, the Rice students also, through, from back then. So, we still kept in touch.

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So it’s, it’s one of the, I’d say my uh, my uh, schooling, uh, high school and college-wise, I was able to uh, I really enjoyed uh, in, in in meeting

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friends, you know making friends and uh, building relationships, you know. And, and uh, still having a good time. You know with studying and, and uh,

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and working, and uh, while I was attending school here. So yeah I mean, that was one of my, I would say it was one of my best experiences. Did it surprise you how well it went when you got to America? Were you worried at all before you

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came? Uh, yeah somewhat I guess. Somewhat surprising I guess since, since I didn’t, English was not my first language. And uh so, but uh, I seemed I, I picked it up fairly f-,

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fairly fast. You know so, um, yeah. And I think, yeah, I guess it, I guess looking back at it, I guess it’s somewhat surprising, you know, that,

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yeah it, you know. When I was going through it, you know, it was uh, yeah I didn’t uh, I didn’t really have to struggle. You know it seemed like, at that time so you know so.

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It was the, everything went fairly, fairly smoothly, you know. And I think that’s a that’s a good, that, I was, that’s a good thing. I think it made it easier.

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Uh you know, my aunt was here so I think that made it easier that I was staying uh, with family all through that whole time. And uh, you know so, and I was able to kind of make friends like I said.

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And build relationships throughout schools. And I think that also helped my integration into American society. Do you have any, like, one particular memory from your early days in America that you

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think is really interesting or…? Uh… well, I think that when I uh, when I came, I think when I came here,

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um, I think 1969, yeah. So the, the, the Houston’s still pretty small. Yeah know uh, even in 1969 it wasn’t that big. I remember that uh, um, my uncle, I

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think, my uncle uh, had a restaurant, Chinese restaurant. You know called King Bowl… And then they on, they on the, Westheimer and Fondren, I think that’s, that’s what the

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location of the restaurant was. But that was like uh, that was kind of the middle of nowhere. You know so it’s, when he opened the restaurant it’s like uh, it’s a farm fields… restaurant.

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. Why they uh, that was, that was, that was uh, surprised he picked you know… open a restaurant so far out of the city…. but it’s, but

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uh, looking back you know it’s… it’s not far at all… look back at it. Yeah so, it just wasn’t uh… but everybody was you know, the, it was a very,

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not very big city but everybody’s very… I thought everyone was very uh, friendly, uh, and welcoming. You know so, um, that, and I mean,

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and you know of course I mean there’s not that many, you know, the not that m- like I said not that many, you know not that many Asians, you know at school at that time. So other kids were always kind of uh, curious about, about about the Asian culture.

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You know they uh, they all really uh, yeah friendly toward me and all that, so that made adjustment, uh, fairly smooth growing up, you know, all through high

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school. You know and in a c-, in, despite coming to a new country, uh, at the time so. I thought yeah, I thought really uh, I think kind of worked out, worked out well I guess, under the circumstances. So when you left for Houston, were you old enough at

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that point to understand some of the political reasons behind why you had to move, and what did you think about that? Uh, yeah, well, of course yeah I know the, with the the the war was going

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on, you know, with the Vietnam. Uh, and of course you know in, in in terms of Taiwan I understood the, you know there’s the, uh, the battle I guess between Taiwan

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and mainland Chinese. You know and uh, so they kind of, they, there’s always a constant battle. And uh, but it really didn’t uh, it didn’t really,

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uh, affect me personally. Uh, it was just something happening in the background. And you know and, and, and that uh, so, um, it

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didn’t really affect my studies or my relationship. You know and, and my work you know and uh, and going on, and so forth. You know so, uh, yeah so it’s, it’s uh, it’s uh

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it’s uh, it’s something that uh, even the, you know the friends that I had, some from Taiwan, some from, you know China, some from you know the, the we don’t really uh, dwell on it.

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You know even we on, on opposite sides, or anything like that so. Yeah, it wasn’t, uh, it wasn’t uh, a factor. Can you tell me a little about your job in uh Astroworld?

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Oh yeah, so that was my uh, I think that was my uh, I forgot what it was. I think it’s the summer of my uh, junior or senior. In high school, in high school.

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It was my first job. I had just turned sixteen I think. You know so I think you had to be sixteen to work, you know so I just--. And then in Astroworld it’s ac- actually uh, real close to my aunt’s house

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where I was staying. You know so, you know actually I… I couldn’t drive at the time you know so I had a bicycle. So I could actually bike to work from my

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aunt’s house to Astroworld. And uh... I would ride along the, I remember I had to bike along the feeder, on the feeder on 610.

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You know so, it was a little scary, biking along the side of the cars coming . Going, going, you know speeding by. But uh, you know I, it was, it was uh, I guess it worked out. And uh, so I was uh, w- I was uh, a

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fry cook in the uh, in one of the restaurants in Astroworld. You know so you cook hamburgers and french fries and stuff like that. You know so, um… What that just like extra fun spending money, or did you have a responsibility to

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earn that? Uh, no it was just, it was, it was just extra money. You know, it was, you know summer. I did-- there’s nothing to do in the summer, right.

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So everybody gets summer jobs back then you know so. This was a, it was a summer job. But you know it’s, I had fun. You know it was uh, it was a fun job you know.

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A lot of young kids, you know, working in Astroworld. And you know, so you work, you know, you… you know have your shifts, you know and then you h-- you go to parties after shift, you know, after you

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shift is over. So. And uh, so yeah it was a good way to earn little bit of money and make some friends and have fun, you know, during the summer. You know so it’s uh, so I did, yeah that was my uh...

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yeah, I think junior? Yeah, yeah. Either my junior or a senior year, uh, high school. You know. And then the uh... yeah.

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That, so that was my, that was my-- I only made like dollar sixty-five an hour or something. Which seemed like a lot of money at the time . Not much at all, you know but, uh, but it was,

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it was, it was fun. It was fun. And, and that, then I had the-- that was my first job and then, first job and then next summer I had a job as a busboy at a Chinese restaurant.

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You know so, and then and then the next summer I had uh, I became a waiter… a waiter at the restaurant called uh, Trader Vick’s. It’s like it used to be uh,

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it’s not, it’s not there anymore. a restaurant along South Main. South Main and Holcombe. There’s a Shamrock Hilton at the time. Yeah. So that was uh, Trader Vick’s was a Polynesian restaurant

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you know. So I was actually, uh, you know a waiter there for, for the summer as well. So it seemed like every, every summer, you know high school and college, I always had uh,

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you know, a summer job. Uh, and uh, yeah in, in uh, waitering or uh, Astroworld. And of course when, when I, when I became, you

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know, when I became a junior or senior in college I had, I had internships as engineers. Engineering companies, then. So I kind of moved up in the world there.

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So, uh-- What was coming to Rice like? Did you, were you involved in any clubs or the college social scene? Uh, Rice, I, I, I enjoyed the uh, I really enjoyed

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the uh, the Rice uh, college experience. I was Will Rice. You know and, and uh, I was there for, actually I was there for five years. You know, I was there all

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five years. It was before the-- this was before the co-ed. You know so it was only, it was all male, you know at the time. You know so, and uh, but I had uh, yeah… I was, when I first, as a freshman I, I got

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paired with uh, uh, Michael Howze . He’s uh, he’s a English major. You know so it was really, it’s, it’s, it’s complete opposite of me, you know.

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I was a engineer and he was a English major, you know. It’s uh… you know, English philosophy, you know major you know so. Very, very interesting. You know kind of uh, kind of uh, exposed me to different,

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different side of people that I don’t normally associate with you know so. And, you know actually uh, it worked out, you know it worked out well. I think he... you know he and I stayed roommates for all five years.

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You know so we got along, you know got along very well and uh… A couple people that uh, and, and uh that’s uh, my house neighbor I guess was uh, was a philosophy major.

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And then another neighbor was a chemical engineer like me. So I remember we used to, we got along really well and we used to play bridge uh, all the time in the suite you know.

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Play bridge and uh, and smoke marijuana, ok back then. So it was uh, it was fun. It really was. It was kind of,

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kind of a care free, you know it was kind of a care free, uh, you know you do your studies… you get together and BS you know, uh after studies, you know play some

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bridge. You know. smoke the water pipe a little bit there and, and uh. That’s how, what we do every week you know. It’s uh, and uh it really

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kinda, and then the, and I enjoyed the college experience meeting with other, you know everybody in the college. You know we used to, we used to all sit down together, uh, you had to everybody had to eat at

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six o’clock at night or something. You know I… you don’t, you don’t get there at six, you know, and then you miss the meal. And everybody had to sit at round tables. You know we used to have freshmans-- but

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they don’t do that anymore. The freshman has to serve, uh the whole table. You know bring the dishes from the kitchen and serve the whole table. So that’s part of the freshman’s uh, initiation I guess.

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You know so, but then… but then it’s, so everybody would sit together, everybody talk you know, during dinner. And uh it’s uh, and then after dinner some of us would go with uh... with uh, play bridge in the

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common. We used to have uh, I think we used to play bridge with Doc, Doc C., Doctor uh, Culbertson . I think he’s uh, he was a faculty but I think he’s still, I think he’s still part of Will Rice.

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You know, used to play bridge with him, uh uh, all the time. You know so, and uh, yeah. Yeah but so it’s, it’s, and I, and I use-- and so that’s the dorm.

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That’s the, the college experience. You know and then, and then uh, and I also I, you know I also join the uh, uh, I think the Rice uh, the Chinese Student Association.

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You know, not that many, not that many of us, you know so we’re, we’re pretty close. You know so it had both undergraduate and graduate students all, all in one association. So we would just get together and…

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And it’s like a combination of kids who were uh, were from here, who were born here, as well as foreign students, you know from Taiwan for the most part Taiwan, Hong Kong at the time. You know so, and uh,

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yeah so that was uh, that was uh, that was I think, that was a pretty close knit group also because there’s not that many of us. And then I became the president of that association

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my senior year here in Rice. You know so, and uh so and I had different you know, yeah, so I had different circles. You know, … different circles in our uh, when I was at Rice.

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And uh, it’s uh, yeah and and, and I still keep in touch. Uh, with quite a few of them even to this day. So being the president of the Chinese Student Association that kind of seems to foreshadow a lot of the work you do now with the Chinese-American community.

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So what motivated you to become involved in that at first? Uh, well, I think we just uh, at at uh, at the time yeah I just really wanted to, I really want to kind of

00:30:56.430 - 00:31:14.050

plan some activities you know for the, for the group. You know so, and, the best way to do that is you know, is uh, you know through volunteer… and serve as officers and, and presidents.

00:31:14.540 - 00:31:28.970

And, and, and put together activities you know, on the weekends for the, for the members. And that was really the kind of the, it’s really more of our, socializing and building relationships. That was one of the main, main

00:31:29.840 - 00:31:48.280

motivation to get to know other, uh other people. And actually, actually that’s how, that’s how I met uh, uh my, my wife. My wife, uh, she went to UH, so.

00:31:48.870 - 00:32:05.820

But she was uh, she ran for uh Miss Chinatown…you know… one year… So anyway when I was president of the Rice Chinese Association, we put together a Lunar New Year celebration you know, in the Grand Hall.

00:32:05.820 - 00:32:19.870

And so we needed some entertainment. So, I, so we uh, I, I talked to the Miss Chinatown sponsor and got a couple Miss Chinatown contestants to come perform. And she was, my wife was one of them.

00:32:20.690 - 00:32:34.700

That’s how I met my wife. And then so, uh, so yeah so, so through the activity, you know I actually gained uh, not just, not just friends but I gained my wife as

00:32:34.700 - 00:32:52.270

well. And so that’s uh, uh, yeah so I, kind of uh, uh, stay, stay uh, uh, yeah so I’d say I was pretty, uh, I’d say I was pretty active I guess uh, during, during

00:32:54.290 - 00:33:08.320

the college years. Uh, and uh, yeah of course I didn’t, uh, uh, then after I started working then I, I, I think I kind of took a step back somewhat you know, ‘cause

00:33:08.460 - 00:33:20.420

you know focus on work. You know and, we had kids, a couple of kids, you know so. So that, that uh, the family and kids and uh work, uh, took most of my

00:33:20.580 - 00:33:36.550

time. So I didn’t uh really step back in the community, uh, until actually my kids are high school, you know before I came back to the communities. So-- How far apart are your kids, and what was it like?

00:33:37.140 - 00:33:47.120

When you first became a parent? Uh, well I was uh, they’re four year apart. I think my uh kids are four years apart. Yeah. And uh it

00:33:47.120 - 00:34:01.220

was a y--, I remem--, it was a, it’s uh--, my first, first, my first kid that was a uh, uh, was a-, amazing. I mean it was an amazing experience, you know. I thought that’s uh, you know, it’s when he was born, you

00:34:01.220 - 00:34:15.200

know, then he, I uh, you held him in uh, you know it’s, I held him in my arms. So, it’s so small. Yeah know it’s… it’s a s--, it’s

00:34:15.200 - 00:34:30.080

little scary you know that this, this kid is really now, you know, your responsibility. Um, and uh, but uh, but it’s a, it’s a awesome feeling.

00:34:30.370 - 00:34:45.970

It’s awesome feeling to have a kid uh, and I guess you don’t, you, probably hard to relate unless you, you parent yourself. To have that feeling of that, it’s that uh, that somebody is really depending on

00:34:46.090 - 00:35:04.390

you. Uh, another person is basically depending on you now and you have this whole this, responsibility, to, you know to bring him up. And uh, so but but uh, but it’s… it’s

00:35:04.970 - 00:35:20.320

just such a awesome, such a awesome feeling that, to uh, you know to have a kid and then have uh, have an opportunity, you know, to to to, to to bring him up and, the… And

00:35:20.320 - 00:35:36.690

so we had the second one is four, four yeah, I think four year later. Yeah so, and uh, but yeah it was, it’s, it’s, but second one was much easier… ‘Cause once you go through the first one, you know you don’t,

00:35:37.090 - 00:35:52.080

you don’t sweat the details as much with the second one . It’s uh, much, much easier. The, but uh. Yeah. But that, it’s it’s, it’s uh, the only uh, the the only thing that kinda, you

00:35:52.080 - 00:36:01.610

know, with the with the two kids, you know the only thing I kind of regret is that I wasn’t uh-- ‘Cause I had uh, when they were growing up I had to travel quite a bit for work.

00:36:03.130 - 00:36:19.600

So I, I wasn’t able to always uh, go to all the, all the activities. You know I always kinda, uh, regretted, uh, even though it’s some, you know it’s not

00:36:19.600 - 00:36:36.380

something I can help because I have to, I have to travel. And then you know the… and uh… but looking back, looking back uh, and also, you know, especially my, my, my younger one, my, when he was

00:36:36.380 - 00:36:54.300

growing up I think I travelled then--, I travelled more than the first one. And uh, but he uh, he he, talking to him, you know he remembered, you know, all the activities that I did not go to.

00:36:55.270 - 00:37:13.760

He remember, he remember, it’s uh, he didn’t remember the ones I went to. He only remembered the ones I didn’t go. So that’s, it’s kinda, it was uh, yeah, I was kinda regretted that, uh… I wasn’t

00:37:14.680 - 00:37:28.160

uh, I wasn’t always there to see the experiences that they had-- growing up. Did you and your wife, was there any way that both of you passed on different values to your

00:37:28.160 - 00:37:45.760

children than your parents did to you? Uh… yeah, well. That, it’s uh, it my uh, my parents, you know, you know I think my uh, I think my

00:37:45.820 - 00:38:02.660

wife’s parents too they uh, I think they, pretty uh, hands off, you know uh, parents. And, it’s not a, there wasn’t uh, a lot of guidance, uh, growing up from

00:38:04.270 - 00:38:19.960

my parents. Um, they just you know, they just tell you that you know, you study. You know, they don’t tell you how, how to go about doing it, and… And of

00:38:20.000 - 00:38:37.710

course in, I was uh, I was on my own since I was fourteen. And basically, uh, so I didn’t really get much guidance, you know from them because they are, they are not here. And so I was always pretty uh, so I

00:38:37.710 - 00:38:53.840

learned to be pretty independent, uh, for the most part you know and, not uh, not needing uh, much guidance, uh… um, um from, from them.

00:38:54.040 - 00:39:07.650

You know ‘cause I, I had some idea of what I wanted to do and, and it worked out. You know, and I didn’t really need a lot of guidance necessarily either. You know so,

00:39:08.530 - 00:39:26.310

um, but to with, with uh, our kids, um, it’s kinda the-- our, both my, actually my wife and my style are very similar in that we are kind of hands off also.

00:39:28.100 - 00:39:42.470

Uh we don’t, we don’t uh, tell our kids what to do. Uh, and maybe it’s because our parents didn’t tell us what to do so we didn’t, we didn’t tell our kids what to

00:39:42.470 - 00:39:57.830

do either. You know so, we kind of let them figure it out on their own, you know what, what’s the, uh, right thing to do. And we don’t tell them unless, we don’t uh, advise them unless they come to us, uh for

00:39:58.050 - 00:40:12.130

questions specifically. You know so it’s kind of like the same, uh, same style, uh, that we passed down to our kids. Um, but yeah then I think you know but,

00:40:12.900 - 00:40:30.270

I think, I don’t know if that’s the right, uh, looking back I don’t know if that’s the right style, uh, for our kids. Because I think they were, uh, at uh, sometimes they were struggling, you know to,

00:40:31.810 - 00:40:46.920

with uh, needing some guidance. You know and maybe they didn’t come to us automatically to ask and, and, and uh, yeah so. Talking to them after they, they’re

00:40:46.990 - 00:41:02.940

grown they say wish they had maybe little more guidance from us growing up. You know so, and, instead of them having to figure it out on their own. And, which turned out, and I think which turned out fine,

00:41:03.410 - 00:41:18.340

uh, that they had to figure it out for themselves what to do about each step, but it was pretty stressful in the process of trying to figure out, you know what uh, what they should be doing and how they should go

00:41:18.480 - 00:41:32.550

about doing it, you know. So um, no I think they were, yeah they were looking for more, I think more uh, more involvement, and, from us, than were given.

00:41:33.500 - 00:41:45.050

And no, ‘cause I was, I was travelling quite a bit when they were growing up too so that didn’t help the mat-- the matter either. You know, so, uh, but they, they, they, they both are successful now.

00:41:45.480 - 00:42:02.970

Um, you know so, um, and, so yeah I think, I think everything turned out well, um. Is that maybe uh, maybe we could have helped them get there sooner

00:42:04.700 - 00:42:20.440

rather than later I guess, you know so. But they they, they uh, they, they both uh, they both uh, doing well so, it’s uh, yeah one, one is uh, one came back actually one came back to Rice uh, and got an

00:42:20.440 - 00:42:36.570

MBA degree. You know so he’s a, he’s the, only one that uh, that came to Rice. My younger one uh didn’t uh, uh he went to Stanford. Uh, it’s kind of interesting ‘cause he was,

00:42:37.240 - 00:42:51.590

he was accepted to go to Stanford but Rice did not accept him. So that was always kind of curious to me why, why Rice wouldn’t take him. Even though he’s, I’m alumni.

00:42:51.850 - 00:43:07.280

Um you know, but he ended up at Stanford which turned out fine you know. And uh, and he kind of, he’s got a master of pop--, mas--, he has a Master of Public Policy from Princeton after that and then he got an MBA from UC Berkeley after that.

00:43:08.460 - 00:43:21.660

You know so they’re both in Bay Area, uh, and doing well. So it’s kind of, little bit odd ‘cause they both took a bit of a detour, you know of kinda how they got to where they are.

00:43:22.520 - 00:43:38.400

You know but I think they all-- was a, was a good journey along the way. Kind of learned, uh, learned to figure out what, what interests them, you know what motivates them, what excites them, what are their passions.

00:43:39.030 - 00:43:54.480

You know so I think they both enjoying what they do know. So, so it’s uh, yeah, I’m very proud of both of them. How was your job as a, were you a chemical engineer?

00:43:55.850 - 00:44:10.380

Yes. Did you, did you like it like you expected to? Uh, yeah I like it fine because I was uh, you know, I was good at it you know. And I was, it’s uh, but

00:44:10.620 - 00:44:28.630

uh engineering you know it’s kind of like uh, like I say I was good in math, you know in chemistry, you know so, ChemE required both skills, you know so. You know so, so I was uh, so I decided to major

00:44:28.890 - 00:44:38.260

in that, did well in that. You know and I was able to find a job. Uh, because uh, because of that. And uh, but

00:44:38.260 - 00:44:59.650

I think that things turned out , I didn’t really practice uh, engineering uh, that long after uh, I left school. You know I was, yeah I was, I was engineer for maybe, oh I’d say, three uh, two,

00:44:59.650 - 00:45:17.080

three years. You know two, three years. And um, and then, and then uh, and then I joined the, I joined Shell. And then when I, after I joined Shell, then they move uh,

00:45:18.160 - 00:45:30.830

Shell moves me to different jobs every three years or so. Yeah and, and so it’s it’s uh, only the first one was engineering job. All the other jobs are, all

00:45:30.830 - 00:45:48.770

the other assignment I had are, are really not-- it’s still technical, ‘cause it’s like, it’s uh, information technology, you know so information technology, uh, in uh, in, where

00:45:50.970 - 00:46:10.060

was I? I was in lab, in lab automation. Uh, and I had an assignment in uh, in a research uh, uh research uh, a lab. And I became a,

00:46:10.060 - 00:46:31.280

and I became a manager, you know, of uh, of different groups in Shell in both ENP and, and downstream business in different businesses. So, so really I guess as I, as I move up, you know my job

00:46:31.280 - 00:46:45.970

became more and more uh, managing people. Managing relationships rather than technical. Yeah, so uh, so engineering really prepared me you know to uh,

00:46:47.330 - 00:47:02.940

it gave me my first job. Because they, you know the skills I have allow, you know then, allow me to uh, allow me to have a job with Shell. Uh, and,

00:47:04.000 - 00:47:20.870

and then, and which I’m grateful, you know. And after I start working with Shell with different assignments, then you know then, I tend to use more of my analytical skills and my people skills, you know uh, communication skills.

00:47:21.720 - 00:47:38.920

That, those are the ones that I picked up, kind of along the way, to help me succeed, and really more than technical skills as I as I, as I moved um, through the company. You know so, um,

00:47:40.620 - 00:47:54.820

so yeah so I guess the - it’s uh, it’s uh, en- engineering was was my, the way to as my uh, it’s a way for me to get the, get my foot

00:47:54.820 - 00:48:11.130

in the door so to speak. You know, and, and really after that, you know, my uh, my uh progression really has more to do--, less to do with technical than my people

00:48:11.130 - 00:48:24.430

management skills. After that, you know, so, uh, I think that’s how – that’s how it is for probably most careers. You know, it’s a – yeah, there’s some people that

00:48:24.590 - 00:48:40.900

stay in the same field or the same technical field for whole career if you’re really good at it, you know, then you can – you can excel at it and you can – you can maybe, uh, uh, you do research, you can – you can have more and more

00:48:40.900 - 00:48:57.150

patents and so forth., That’s a way to excel in your own field, you know, so – But I – I’m a – my interest is really more, I’m really more interested in exploring, seeing different things, and so I like to see

00:48:57.150 - 00:49:15.940

new, you know, new experiences, uh, every so often, and, and uh, so I, I really kind of like, I just I, and so I like the moving around and learning new opportunities, learning new fields, learning new businesses, you know, so that kind of

00:49:15.940 - 00:49:28.950

keeps me, keeps, keeps me young, so to speak, you know, and motivated, and, and keeps the job interesting through my whole career, and, uh, so, and so, it’s uh, I,

00:49:29.730 - 00:49:45.760

every job I have in Shell, I have maybe, I have 34 years with Shell, you know, so, every say, every three years, I’ve had at least ten jobs. I get ten assignments in Shell, you know, everyone is, is, is different, you know,

00:49:46.130 - 00:50:05.750

different business, different people, you know, and, um, the skillset is similar, you know, uh, across the – across the assignments, you know, but uh, but yeah but it’s, it’s, but it’s learning the new business, new opportunity,

00:50:06.120 - 00:50:19.900

and meeting new people, that’s the interesting part of my job, my career, you know, so. So that – yeah, I’m glad it worked out that way. You know I – I wouldn’t be as happy if I had just stayed in engineering,

00:50:21.100 - 00:50:31.620

stayed an engineer my whole career. So, it, so it worked out, you know. It, it, it’s, it, it just worked out. Shell is a great company to work for in

00:50:31.620 - 00:50:43.450

the sense that it’s such a big company, it has so many opportunities. You can move around in the same company without having to change companies. So, so, it’s, uh, it’s, uh,

00:50:45.730 - 00:51:02.660

yeah, it’s a, it’s a yeah, it’s a good career. It’s a – it can --as an engineer, I can say, it give you the good skill set to, uh, to, uh, let you start out, you know.

00:51:02.660 - 00:51:27.590

Because engineering, engineering they teach you a lot of different skills, analytical skills, you know, and other skills, which, which y-- reasoning, which you would need, uh, in any job you do. So, what were some examples of leadership positions that you had within

00:51:29.510 - 00:51:45.140

Shell? Uh, well, so in Shell, so I was, um, uh, I guess, yeah, it’s, so it’s, the start out, the first leadership position is like group leader. It’s a group leader position you know then...

00:51:45.910 - 00:52:02.740

Uh, then you do, then you basically, uh, manage a small group uh, of five to ten people, you know, in – in the work. Uh, and, and

00:52:02.740 - 00:52:24.450

then, and then, um, moving to, uh, uh, manager positions, and, and all your middle manager positions, uh, and then, you, then you, you get up to ten, twenty, thirty, you know, people as a manager position.

00:52:24.630 - 00:52:41.440

You know the -- the real uh... Actually, you know, the, the ten people is really the, the right size, once you, once you go up, become the next level up, then you don’t, you don’t uh, you have more people

00:52:42.000 - 00:52:57.310

under you, but you don’t know your people as well, yeah. So, and that’s kind of the hardest part as you move up to a manager position. It’s uh, you, you, you,

00:52:58.280 - 00:53:13.860

uh, you kind of have to manage through people, you know, rather than manage them directly, and so, and so, you have to, uh, you actually have people under you who manage the group, you know, so you can’t really tell the group directly, you’re not

00:53:13.860 - 00:53:28.790

supposed to anyway. What to do, you tell, you have to write report, you have to write report, and then tells his people, her people, you know, what needs to be done. You know, so, you know, it’s really kind of a, uh – so at that point, then, it’s

00:53:28.860 - 00:53:43.360

really not, uh, you, you’re not really uh, you’re managing the people to deliver their projects, you know, so and, and it’s not really, you know, managing the

00:53:44.840 - 00:53:58.680

deliverables yourself anymore, you know, then you’re actually relying on others to deliver the deliverables, uh, for you, you know, so that’s kind of the hardest part because it’s, you have to trust

00:53:59.150 - 00:54:13.990

your people to know what to do and to do – use their judgement on what is the right way to approach things and how to deliver, and try not to over-- micromanage, I guess, so to speak.

00:54:14.290 - 00:54:30.610

I think that’s the, that’s the hardest, hardest part, you know, is to, to let go uh, and, and, and trust your people to do the right thing and use own judgments.

00:54:31.420 - 00:54:49.410

And, and then, and then, I think, and that’s, I think that’s hardest thing for the first level manager to let go, you know, is the, uh, is to, to delegate, uh, more. But once you learn to do that, then you become a better,

00:54:50.810 - 00:55:07.820

uh, manager, uh, because then you, you, you, you letting, you letting your people have the freedom and authority. So, what kind of places did you get to travel to? Uh, I think, well, of course I traveled in the, uh,

00:55:10.150 - 00:55:27.280

the different locations in the United States, we have, uh, here we have, uh, we have a, Shell has a big complex here, in Deer Park, uh, and then, we have another big complex in uh, New – New Orleans, called

00:55:28.630 - 00:55:49.160

Norco. Uh, we used to have one near, uh, near uh, in, uh, called Martinez in the San Francisco area, so that’s, uh, that’s another big complex that we have. Uh, and then,

00:55:50.720 - 00:56:07.780

and then, of course, and then, and then of course Shell is a global company, you know, the Houston is the, the headquarter for the US, the global headquarters is in the Hague, which is in the Netherlands. So, I travel to

00:56:08.780 - 00:56:28.840

the Hague, you know, uh, uh, quite a bit. Uh, to uh, to coordinate activities, and part of it, uh, yeah, and then, so I have, uh, you know, the, a couple of assignments I had were like

00:56:28.950 - 00:56:45.490

global assignments, where I actually go with the people outside the US, you know, so, and, and my uh, you know and actually, uh, one of my assignments my boss is actually physically located in the Hague.

00:56:46.690 - 00:57:03.880

You know so, so it’s like, a virtual relationship with my boss, he’s in the Hague and I’m here, that’s, that’s uh, that became, that became commonplace, uh, more and more, more and more so, uh, later in my

00:57:03.960 - 00:57:20.150

career, it’s the global groups, you know, I had groups in, um, I also worked with groups in, uh, in Malaysia, where uh, we actually have a lot of, a lot of technical support folks that actually work in

00:57:20.230 - 00:57:38.350

Malaysia. And, so we had the, we had like the teleconferences, you know and so we, you know, we would teleconference with the, with folks there, and, all the time, and so that makes it, the, so the, the, the time

00:57:38.350 - 00:57:51.930

differences became a challenge, you know, they had to make sure, we were during their working days, and, the issue is beginning the work-- beginning our workday here, it’s late in the day over there, so

00:57:52.020 - 00:58:10.110

that’s usually the best time to do teleconferences, it’s, it’s, it’s evenings over there and early mornings over here, we, we, uh, we tend to have our teleconferences. Yeah, so, it’s, uh, and, yeah, it’s a, it’s a, a lot

00:58:10.110 - 00:58:26.680

of times, more and more times, you don’t really have to, uh, necessarily have to travel to the location, I can do a lot of work, you know, globally, you know, uh, through the teleconferences, and so, and,

00:58:28.350 - 00:58:45.010

and yeah, so some, the, the people I have I talk to all the time but never met them. I guess it’s the-- just the way it worked out, nowadays so it’s more common than not to, to, to, uh, to do that.

00:58:45.570 - 00:59:03.970

Yeah, so, but it’s, but it’s always still good, though, to be able to kind of, work with people that’s, that’s different, different country from you, and, uh, loca- different location from you, and this kind of, uh, this uh, with a

00:59:03.970 - 00:59:23.010

global company this is an advantage, I guess, the cross-cultural, yeah, uh, cross-cultural communications and to, to, uh, make sure we, uh, that’s that’s one of the things that I was uh- I got involved, uh, I got involved in Shell, it’s, it’s on diversity and

00:59:23.100 - 00:59:41.050

inclusion and making sure. Uh, I was the, uh, I was president of the, the Shell Asian Network, you know, uh, for, uh, for a year, you know, so, and that’s one of the, that’s one of things we, uh,

00:59:41.930 - 00:59:59.170

we try to, uh, uh, advocate, to make sure we have, uh, diversity and inclusion in all the jobs that we have, you know, and, in all levels, you know, not just, not just entry levels, but uh,

01:00:00.160 - 01:00:19.020

all the way up we want to make sure we have diversity and, uh, because I can, uh, when I became, when I was president of the Shell Asian Network, you know the, the uh, the numbers were such that we have, uh, maybe

01:00:19.020 - 01:00:35.650

12% Asians, you know, in the entry levels, you know, and then as you go up, go up the organization, you know, mid-level it became, well, 6% Asians, and then you go to the upper-level, it became 3% Asians, you know, that’s the example,

01:00:36.340 - 01:00:55.670

you know. So, that was one of the things that, uh, I felt I had to, uh, work on to see, to see how we can kind of uh, move, uh, develop the skills I guess for Asian-Americans so that they can move up

01:00:55.820 - 01:01:08.890

the company, so that we have more Asian leaders, uh, in Shell. So, and that was one of my motivations, uh, when I became president of Shell Asian Network, is just to see what we can

01:01:11.370 - 01:01:30.550

do, uh, and we, we uh, work with the president at the time, the president of Shell at the time, John Hoffmeister, to, to, uh, look at the st-- the data, you know, and, and, and talk about strategies, how we can narrow the gap, uh,

01:01:31.960 - 01:01:51.310

so to speak, you know. So, uh, so we came up with the – some training, leadership training uh, for the, for our Asian network, uh, to make sure we develop the, the skill, the soft skills, because a lot of Asians are,

01:01:52.040 - 01:02:06.650

they’re very good technically, you know, but they may not be as, may not be as good people skill-wise or communication-wise or presentation- wise, so we want to develop those skills because people skills is what actually

01:02:06.720 - 01:02:17.370

moves you up, not technical skills, you know. So, uh, we had developed some courses to our network members to develop

01:02:17.370 - 01:02:37.130

the skills, uh, so that when the opportunity comes, you know, they can, they can move up, and, uh, and then then also, the, also the, the, the, uh, John Hoffmeister with the, with the corporate standpoint, they

01:02:37.130 - 01:02:54.070

also agreed to make sure that for any promotion to a a senior level, level position that have at least one minority in the consideration, you know, so to make sure that we uh, we give the opportunities to women

01:02:54.440 - 01:03:09.080

and minorities, uh, in the company as well. So, it was, I would say, I think that was very good collaboration with the company and the Asian Network to come up with a strategy that, that help both,

01:03:11.110 - 01:03:31.480

you know, so. And that, and that was one of the reason, uh, and that, I think that’s, becoming president of the Shell Asian Network, got me, uh, more interested, you

01:03:31.540 - 01:03:52.330

know, in, in, see how we can, uh, how we can, uh, develop more Asian leaders, you know not just in Shell, but in general, you know, in all areas, you know, because it’s a, because it’s kind of a common issue, uh,

01:03:53.570 - 01:04:13.270

for Asian-Americans in general, um that we are, that we are a little too quiet sometimes, maybe we’re not as assertive as we should be, uh, and therefore we don’t get noticed, uh, when the opportunity comes a lot of

01:04:13.270 - 01:04:32.850

times. And so, that’s, that’s uh, that’s something that I felt that was, uh, uh, important to uh, to see what we can kind of do, uh, what I can do personally, you know and also what I can do,

01:04:33.160 - 01:04:50.350

uh, with the community to try to make sure that we are continue develop leaders, Asian-American leaders in, in all fields. And, so, so that’s, so I’m still, you know, I’m still, I’m got

01:04:50.350 - 01:05:05.000

involved with the, you know, Diversity Summit when I was in Shell, it’s an annual diversity and inclusion conference, you know, to try to promote diversity in the workplace, and I-I’m still,

01:05:06.220 - 01:05:21.540

I’m still part of the organization even though I retired from Shell now, retired seven years ago from Shell, yeah, but I’m still involved with this, uh, Diversity Summit which Shell is a sponsor among – along with other corporate sponsors, you know.

01:05:21.620 - 01:05:43.770

That, you know, we uh put together this conference once a year and invite speaker to come talk about, um, uh, the, uh, the inclusion, you know, how can we be inclusive, you know, uh, in everything we do. Uh, so, so, we

01:05:43.770 - 01:06:04.250

have a, you know topic that addresses, uh, uh, unconscious bias for example, you know that we have, people might have, we have address women-centric topics, issues, LGBTQ issues, um, veterans,

01:06:05.390 - 01:06:24.550

you know, and, uh, disabled, uh, because every one of these, every one of those groups they have their some unique challenges, you know, in terms of, uh, advancing, and so, we want to make sure, uh, the

01:06:24.620 - 01:06:41.920

disadvantaged groups, you know have a way to, to identify the issues, get the, uh, identify potential solutions and way forward so that we can kind of help

01:06:41.920 - 01:07:00.270

everybody move up, uh, in the, in the companies, you know. So, and, uh, so we, this is, I think we have one company, uh, next conference coming up is April 26, it’s uh 19th, it’s our

01:07:00.270 - 01:07:16.730

19th conference coming up with the Diversity Summit. You know, so, so I’m still, I’m still active working on behalf of diversity and inclusion, you know, and, uh, that’s one,

01:07:17.460 - 01:07:35.310

one, one of the examples that I uh, that I continue to, to focus my, my energy after I left Shell. So, that one, and the, the, the other one, the other one is the, uh, actually, it’s kind of three, I think it was three things

01:07:35.640 - 01:07:55.280

that I started while I was at Shell I was still continue to working on. The Diversity Summit is, is one, uh, and, uh, OCA is the other, and that’s a, it’s a, OCA is a national advocacy group for Asian-Americans,

01:07:55.940 - 01:08:10.850

make sure we have equal rights, um, and, and, and also encourage Asian-American to become more engaged civically. Um, in voting, and, and, and running for office

01:08:11.540 - 01:08:28.110

and, and, and so forth. You know, so, so that, that one I’m, I’m uh, I’m president of the Houston chapter, so I’m still, I’m continue working on, on, on uh, on behalf of that organization to advance

01:08:28.580 - 01:08:44.460

Asian-American civil, uh, civic engagement. And, uh, the third one is the Education Rainbow Challenge. That one also started when I was at Shell, because Shell was a sponsor at that, and, and that one is also,

01:08:45.450 - 01:09:02.280

uh, around twenty years now actually too, so that one’s, uh, that, that’s, uh, that, that’s also to, uh, the, the, the uh, the motivation for that is actually to get, to get, uh, elementary school

01:09:02.630 - 01:09:18.170

kids interested in math and science when they’re young, you know, like grades three to five. You know so, and, so that one, uh, that, that one is, uh, it’s uh, to try to get the,

01:09:19.420 - 01:09:36.580

to get the, get gains with the disadvantaged groups, you know, the minorities and, uh, they don’t always have the advantage necessarily, of other groups in, in gaining access to STEM, uh, so we want to get, uh,

01:09:37.330 - 01:09:52.380

so we have these math tournaments, we run these math tournaments and, uh, and science experiments, you know, for these little kids, uh, on one Saturday morning, you know, then they come in, they, they uh,

01:09:52.380 - 01:10:07.990

compete in, uh, S- and in, uh, math competition and also, uh, they also have, uh, they also have the opportunity to experience hands-on experiments, you know, while they’re doing the, uh, doing the math

01:10:08.010 - 01:10:21.860

competition. And so that’s a, that, again, that’s, uh, get them excited about math and science when they’re young because it’s, it’s not, it’s kind of a dry subject, you know, so the idea is to get them interested

01:10:21.860 - 01:10:37.140

young so they can consider going to this, uh, this area as a, uh, when they, when they get, when they go to college, you know, as a way to get minorities, uh, a leg up, you know, so to speak.

01:10:37.510 - 01:10:51.490

So, so already, I guess, all three of these is really kinda, my motivation is trying to get disadvantaged, you know, communities, you know uh, more opportunities and so level the field, so to speak,

01:10:52.530 - 01:11:08.370

going forward. So, I’m still, I’m still kind of focus my energy on these three areas, you know, as uh, as I enjoy my retirement. So, coming from your engineering background and then ending up working in diversity and

01:11:08.370 - 01:11:28.240

inclusion, um, did you have any personal experiences that led you to care about that more than you did at first, or any mentors or leaders who taught you how important that was? Uh… Yeah, I didn’t, you know, so, I didn’t really see, uh, many,

01:11:28.240 - 01:11:44.130

uh, uh, Asian, I guess, role models, I guess, growing up, I guess, so to speak. Um, and, and, it’s – because it’s just not that many, uh,

01:11:46.640 - 01:12:04.280

and I didn’t really, I guess, really didn’t, I guess, really kind of dawn on me, you know, how important, uh, that would be until, uh, I guess until later in my career, you know, uh,

01:12:06.710 - 01:12:22.600

when I uh, the, you know, when I started the, you know, when I start seeing that that’s not that many, uh, Asian that I can go to for advice

01:12:22.940 - 01:12:41.890

after I had come, after Rice was sort of level, yeah, so… Uh, yeah so that’s when, I guess, wh-when it started, uh, bothering me, I guess, uh, that, uh, why, you know why there’s not a, uh,

01:12:44.810 - 01:13:03.680

not more role models, uh, Asian role models, uh, per se, and, and, you know, I, I think I guess, that’s kind of the, that’s kind of the motivations, you know.

01:13:03.680 - 01:13:18.590

And, and I started looking around, you don’t see, you don’t see that many, uh, high-level Asian leaders, you know, in general in corporate America, you know, or, or in government, you know.

01:13:18.880 - 01:13:32.190

Uh, y-you see a few, but certainly not, you know uh, Asians are about 6% of the population, you know, about so the leaders are probably, the senior leaders, uh, maybe about 2% are

01:13:32.190 - 01:13:49.400

Asians, probably, yeah, so, definitely don’t have as many as we should. Uh, so I think that’s uh, I think that’s important, uh, especially for us because we have more and more, a lot of Asians. Uh, younger,

01:13:49.400 - 01:14:06.550

younger Asians, you know, uh, coming up, you know, so definitely opportunities, opportunities are there for them to, to take advantage, uh, yeah, if they can, you know. So, I think it’s, it’s, it’s getting better, it’s

01:14:06.770 - 01:14:22.000

definitely getting better. It’s – we’re not there yet, but I think we’re, we’re getting better. So, if there were appropriate representation in leadership levels of Asian-Americans, would that

01:14:22.000 - 01:14:41.600

reflect that something in America has changed for the better, or would that be a way to, to change America for the better? Like, is it the result or the cause of a, of a shift? Well, it’s, it’s, that’s a, it’s – like I said, I

01:14:41.600 - 01:14:59.230

think I’m seeing, you’re seeing more, uh, you’re seeing more Asian representation uh, now definitely, than I was – I would say twenty years ago, twenty, thirty years ago. So you see, you definitely see more representation, now, so,

01:15:00.000 - 01:15:14.330

uh, which is a good thing, because by, by seeing more, then, then you, then you have more role models out there for young people out there to follow, you know, so then it’s become it’s like kind of a rising tide

01:15:14.510 - 01:15:30.640

raises all boats, so to speak, right? So uh, so definitely having, having more has a synergistic effect of, of developing more going forward as well, so, uh, and, and, and I

01:15:30.810 - 01:15:49.680

think, and, and I think the, you know, the fact that you have more, uh, uh, young – the Asian population’s growing, and that, that is good too, you know, because then, and then, they, they, they can go into a lot more fields now too than just

01:15:49.680 - 01:16:05.430

STEM, you know, traditionally it’s almost, it’s almost mostly STEM, but now you see more in the arts, you know, in music, you know, and, uh, even the, even the elected officials, you’re seeing more now,

01:16:05.960 - 01:16:19.850

so, and, you know so it’s a, there’s an Asian-American running for president now, Andrew Yang, you know, so, which is great, you know. And of course, I think there are a couple others who are also maybe partial Asian,

01:16:20.620 - 01:16:37.470

partial. You know so yeah, so that’s encouraging, you know, I was just at a, I was just at, uh, some kind of talk, oh, it was a talk at Asia Society about Asian representation in the film, in the film indu-- film and TV

01:16:37.650 - 01:16:53.230

industry. Yeah, so seeing Asians, you know, in TV and films too, you know, and the, uh, the, they were saying, the uh, not just uh, actors,

01:16:54.350 - 01:17:11.480

you know, they’re seeing more Asians in the back offices too, like producers, directors, and, and, uh, and so forth, and maybe, you know, eventually you need Asians in decision makers too, uh who can make decisions, uh,

01:17:13.250 - 01:17:32.460

in the area too. So, I think we’re getting, we’re getting more Asian filter through all the, you know, uh, all the fields, higher, and gradually moving up, yeah, so, uh, it’s a, yeah, I think it’s, it’s, it’s,

01:17:32.630 - 01:17:47.090

it definitely, uh, encouraging, and Asians is one of the fastest-growing, well, I guess is the fastest-growing, uh, group in, uh, America, including if you count other immigrants, new immigrant that come in.

01:17:47.900 - 01:18:09.410

So that’s, you know, so that’s definitely a good thing. Um… ooh, I just had this in my head, what was I going to say – um, uh… I don’t have anything. Maybe I’ll remember .

01:18:10.820 - 01:18:22.580

Um, yeah, sure. So, you talked about a couple of the organizations you’ve been a part of, but um, there’s also the Chinese Community Center. So, can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, yeah, the Chinese Community Center.

01:18:22.580 - 01:18:38.560

That’s - I’m on the, on the board of the Chinese Community Center, and I was the, uh, past, uh, board chair, uh, when the, back ten years ago. But I’m still on the board, I’m on the, I’m on the long-range, uh,

01:18:38.560 - 01:18:52.760

head of the long-range planning committee for Chinese Community Center, and, uh, and we are in the, in the process of uh, completing a new building for senior activities, it’s, we’re calling it the Senior Daycare Center.

01:18:52.890 - 01:19:09.610

So, we’re gonna, once it’s completed, the senior can go there for day activities, uh, and that’s one of, one of the, uh, focuses that we, uh, the CCC has, is trying to, uh, address the

01:19:10.370 - 01:19:27.030

aging demographics, you know, of our community, you know, so we have more, uh, you know, so, yeah, the, the, the that’s a clear need for our community, uh, that we

01:19:27.030 - 01:19:46.100

haven’t, well, there, there, there are some, there are some, uh, some, uh, centers, I guess, you know here and there, that’s addressing some of that, but we always need more, you know, so that’s, that’s why, we I think that’s the motivation for the CCC to, to build a

01:19:46.380 - 01:19:58.890

uh, to raise the funds needed to build a new building, so that we can have additional facility for addressing this, uh, this segment of the populations, uh that’s growing and aging, and, uh,

01:20:00.450 - 01:20:18.040

yeah, it’s a, so it’s a, so CCC, I think it’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s one of the few, um, Asian-American organizations who, who actually, uh, uh,

01:20:20.650 - 01:20:34.250

I think, who actually do things for the community. Yeah, so too many Asian-American groups, you know, it’s just, they have, they just do social activities, you know, and fellowship building you

01:20:35.240 - 01:20:49.610

know, and, uh, but CCC is, is one of the few that actually have a facility, you know, actually have services, you know, the, uh, the-the-there are services for the community, and not just for Chinese.

01:20:49.610 - 01:21:03.040

Even those it’s called Chinese Community Center, but we serve, you know, serve all, all demographics, uh, and it’s a United Way agency, you know, so, we get funding, we get funding from United Way, and

01:21:04.660 - 01:21:18.300

uh, and when you get from – get public funding, you can’t really, you have to open the service up to everybody, you can’t just say, “Only for Chinese.” So, so, so, so, so anything we do, you know it’s

01:21:18.370 - 01:21:34.060

available to all the clients in the area, you know. So, we have childcare, and, you know, we have, uh, adult education, we have after-school programs, you know, we have senior programs, you know, which

01:21:34.790 - 01:21:53.120

we’re gonna, uh, locate in the senior center, and we also have, um, closed-off Chinese school, um, uh, Chinese school also, that’s kind of the, one of the original programs, CCC is the Chinese language school

01:21:53.980 - 01:22:09.390

for, uh, from kindergarten to, for high school. So, that’s, uh, that’s still there, and, and, um, and then we also have, um, what we call the, uh, health and wellness activities,

01:22:09.420 - 01:22:22.820

you know, with a gym, you know, they can, people can come play basketball, volleyball, badminton, and then we have the, the, uh, exercise programs, you know, for people.

01:22:22.820 - 01:22:37.880

So, it’s really, it’s a community center, you know, it’s, it has all kinds, all kinds of activities we have, you know. So, yeah it’s a, it’s a, I think it really provides a clearly uh, needed act-- needed, uh,

01:22:39.790 - 01:22:58.440

services for, for the, for the Asian communities and beyond. You know, I mean, it’s something that, uh, that our community can be proud of you, you know, that we have a, that’s a non-profit activity center, you

01:22:58.440 - 01:23:17.160

know, that serves, that serves everyone, you know, and, and, uh, I guess also, you know, dispels you know the, uh, uh, notion, you know, that Asians, Asian-Americans doesn’t really, uh, reach out, help

01:23:17.160 - 01:23:30.900

other communities. You know so, so it’s, it’s uh, it’s a good, it’s a-another good way to kinda brandish the Asian-American names also.

01:23:32.130 - 01:23:47.370

So, you’ve mentioned your, your passion for relationship building and community building. Has, have these organizations been a way for you to also find, um, build those relationships, or, and are there other ways you do that too? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:23:47.430 - 01:24:01.810

I mean, that’s a, what the, yeah, the, all these, all these activities, you know, that I can be continued to be involved in, you know. It’s the, of course yeah, the main motivation is to- to give

01:24:01.810 - 01:24:19.210

back to the community, you know, to help those in need, you know, but, uh, but that’s the, that’s the end goal, you know to, to help others, but then, you know, the process or the journey itself, you know, it’s,

01:24:19.600 - 01:24:34.920

it’s, it’s uh, having a relationship, you know, with the others that work on, others that work with, or different, you know, all these different activities, and, uh, yeah, so, all these, all these activities, you

01:24:35.010 - 01:24:50.010

know, that that I’m involved in, I enjoy working with a different set of people, you know, and then then each one a great set of people to work with, you know and, I really enjoy the, the working relationship,

01:24:50.600 - 01:25:06.470

you know, uh, cause I wouldn’t, you know, it’s no fun doing it if I don’t enjoy it, right? So, it’s, you know, and so the good thing is, you know, all these, the CCC, or the, the ERC, uh, the Diversity Summit,

01:25:06.530 - 01:25:22.510

and OCA, it’s, you know they all, you know it’s all the different set of people, but they’re all great people to work with, you know, and then they have the, they, they all, they all contribute, you know, uh, in their

01:25:22.700 - 01:25:40.660

own terms, you know, they don’t have a personal agenda, you know, they just want to uh, to help. And uh, so, yeah so I mean it’s you know it’s uh, uh, that, that kind of, I-I would say, that kind of, you know,

01:25:41.250 - 01:25:56.600

these relationships, that, uh, that I, uh that I have and the people that I work with is really what the, I guess sustains me, I guess, in doing this work, you know. It’s kind of my motivation, you know, so, and,

01:25:58.730 - 01:26:17.540

and as I, I, it’s a, it’s a, it’s kind of, I enjoy the kind of the journey to uh to get there, working with the people. And, and, at this time, at this stage, you know, in, in, uh, in, in, uh in my life, you know I’ve uh, I

01:26:18.610 - 01:26:35.710

had a successful career, you know, and, and I’m not really looking to, for any personal gain, you know, uh, anymore, you know. So, I just want to kind of see what I can do to give back at

01:26:35.710 - 01:26:50.670

this point to the, to the community, and if I can find a group of people that have an equal mind same mindset, you know, you know, what more can you, can you ask, you know, it’s, it’s, uh,

01:26:51.510 - 01:27:10.860

it’s, uh, it’s a great way to, uh, to enjoy my retirement years, you know, and still, uh, so it’s a, it’s a good, I think it’s a good, you know, right now I think it’s a good balance of, uh, as I, as I enjoy

01:27:10.860 - 01:27:30.520

my retirement years I have some time for my personal, personal life sometime, and my community life you know, and, and kind of have a good balance and working with the people that, that like to work

01:27:30.870 - 01:27:42.490

with, you know. So, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of the best of both worlds, so to speak. So it’s uh, do you have a group that you play bridge with now, or do you have any other

01:27:42.490 - 01:27:57.910

hobbies, music, or something? Uh, nah, yeah, I used to play uh, bridge, uh, I used to play bridge a lot more, uh, and, uh, I used to

01:27:57.910 - 01:28:12.530

play some mahjong also, you know, uh, when the, but then it seems like this uh, I haven’t been able to, uh, I still play – I haven’t been able to play bridge or mahjong much anymore but I still play poker. I play

01:28:12.530 - 01:28:28.790

poker, uh, once uh, once a month or so. Yeah, yeah, so that’s, uh, I guess that’s kind of my, uh, my only, uh, uh, other pastime, I guess. Besides travelling, I guess, yeah.

01:28:29.960 - 01:28:42.380

Which I also enjoy doing with my wife, yeah. Try to find new places to go to, and, and so forth. Where do you like to travel? Or where would you like to travel in the future?

01:28:43.940 - 01:29:03.450

Uh, well, we-we’ve been to uh, quite a bit, it’s, uh, we’ve been to Asia and Europe and, uh, Caribbean, Mexico… Haven’t been to, haven’t been to

01:29:03.450 - 01:29:19.440

uh, Australia or New Zealand yet. So, I may, it may be my uh, may be kind of the next, next, uh, destination. What do you like to experience when you travel?

01:29:19.850 - 01:29:34.430

Are you like a museum and history person or nature or everything? Mm, now it’s more, uh, yeah now it’s more, uh, more, more the history. History and, and the, the

01:29:34.880 - 01:29:47.480

scenics, sites. You know so, not as much beaches and, used to, yeah, when I was younger, I, I liked to go snorkeling, you know, diving, I used to dive also.

01:29:49.830 - 01:30:08.520

So, I guess, now, now I’m probably not as, uh not as much into the physical activity rather, it’s more kind of sightseeing, seeing the historical sites, you know, and, and museums, and, uh, see something that’s different that you

01:30:08.520 - 01:30:24.110

wouldn’t see, you know over here, so, you know, we have that. We just came back from, uh, thirty day cruise in Asia that we went to like, uh, I don’t know, over thirty days went to, uh, maybe, uh,

01:30:25.970 - 01:30:42.580

ten, ten, twelve cities I think, you know, in Asia you know, so. And that’s, that’s a, that’s a nice way to see, you know, a different cities every day, you know, and, and, and then, uh, see the sights and sounds, I guess, you know, in

01:30:43.410 - 01:30:54.960

each, each city, and taste the food, you know, see the highlights they have, you know, uh, all in one, all in one pass, you know. So, so, we,

01:30:54.960 - 01:31:11.670

uh, we-we enjoy, enjoy that. I think as I – as we get older, cruise is a good way to travel. We don’t have to worry about packing, unpacking, or flying, uh, or, uh, uh, you know, you do everything, you just stay

01:31:11.670 - 01:31:25.200

on the ship, you know, and they dock at a different port each day, and you get off and explore and come back to the ship to sleep at night. That’s uh, that’s an easy way to see a lot of different places

01:31:26.080 - 01:31:42.480

in one sitting. So, so yeah, so, we-we’re probably going to, yeah, the, uh, we, uh, we, uh, we always go to, uh, Vegas once a year too. We like Vegas, even though we don’t gamble that

01:31:42.650 - 01:31:55.450

much anymore. Just like to see the sights and sounds . Is there anything else you’d like to talk about or any um, hopes for the world or just the country, or

01:31:56.010 - 01:32:16.000

anything else you’d like people to hear two hundred years from now when they listen to this? Yeah, the, uh, nah, I think it’s, uh, I think, you know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a interesting, you know, and as

01:32:16.000 - 01:32:33.380

I, you know, reflect over the years, you know, that, you know, I came here when I was, uh, when I was young, you know, at the, over, uh, over forty years I guess or fifty years, I don’t know, it seem like it’s

01:32:34.120 - 01:32:53.560

in uh, Houston, you know you see a lot of changes. And, uh, it’s, uh, everything is getting more, getting more complicated, more complex, you know, seem like, you know, not as, uh, not as simple as it used to

01:32:53.620 - 01:33:09.820

be, you know so. But then, uh, but then, but then you see a lot of the, you know, lot of, lot of different uh, accomplishments, you know, that people have, you know, the,

01:33:10.240 - 01:33:25.990

all the, you know, the a-advancements that we’ve, you know, that we have, you know, technology, and, and society, and the, you know the, the people, you know, it’s getting more diverse, you know.

01:33:26.040 - 01:33:40.130

I mean, uh, so, I think it’s getting, it’s, it’s, uh, it have a- definitely have a, I think it definitely have a richer, a richer feel to it, you know, it’s really,

01:33:41.440 - 01:33:57.520

it’s uh, it has a lot of- a lot of different components to our society and our culture now than before. You know, and each one, you know, everyone brings their own unique

01:33:57.930 - 01:34:14.160

percept-- perspective, you know, and I think we, we all richer for it. You know, with all the, uh, you know, with the, the new immigrants, the younger

01:34:14.160 - 01:34:28.520

generation, they’re - they’re, they’re much smarter than we were, I think. You know so, and, you know, it’s, uh, it’s uh, it’s getting better,

01:34:28.960 - 01:34:47.920

you know it’s, uh, the all the material, I guess the material things were, we are a lot far, far better, back say fifty years ago. And, and then, I think the people are, actually people

01:34:47.920 - 01:35:02.170

are more uh, a lot more different people, you know, and they are all, they’re not hidden, I guess they all, more and more coming out in service. You know, I think that’s good, you know, and I think you

01:35:02.170 - 01:35:18.370

understands, you know, I think that, uh, uh, it’s a lot more people with different perspectives, and uh I think it’s, it should make the world better, a better place to be, you know. There will be challenges, of

01:35:18.440 - 01:35:37.540

course, challenges to try to, uh, get everybody to listen to each other, I think that’s the main challenge, um, but, but I think the, the good definitely outweighs the bad, I guess, you know, in this

01:35:37.540 - 01:35:57.100

complicated world. So, so, I’m, I’m, uh, you know I’m definitely hopeful, hopeful for the next generation. Yeah, that’s, it’s, it’s, it’s uh, I think every, every uh, every challenges, uh,

01:35:58.150 - 01:36:14.550

that that we experience I think will make us better and stronger in the future. So, so, it’s a, it’s all good… Alright. You

01:36:14.550 - 01:36:22.410

don’t have any more questions? Um, thanks so much for coming and it’s been an honor to talk with you. Yes, thank you so much.

01:36:22.520 - 01:36:23.160

Yeah, yeah no problem.