00:00:03.890 - 00:00:14.780

about myself? Yeah. So I will go ahead and give a quick introduction, and then I will start asking you the questions if that works. Okay.

00:00:15.650 - 00:00:31.010

All right. Today is October 8th, 2024. My name is Karina Pan, and I'm here today with Dr. C. Frank Liu on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice University. So our first question for you this morning is,

00:00:31.010 - 00:00:48.680

where and when were you born? I was born in 1948. It's a long time ago in Hong Kong, okay. And then soon after, when I was

00:00:48.680 - 00:01:08.040

still very young, I don't remember now, the whole family moved from Taiwan, because at that time there was this retreat for the so-called Chiang Kai-shek's coming down, okay,

00:01:08.040 - 00:01:25.830

into Taiwan. My father was an army general. He actually, you know, went to Taiwan first, and then, you know, he, you know, sent people to pick us, my-my- my mom and other children to Taiwan.

00:01:25.830 - 00:01:44.250

So, we kind of moved to Taiwan when I was very young. And I have my, you know, pretty much I stayed in Taiwan until after college. Wow. Thank you. Can you describe the household that you grew up in,

00:01:44.280 - 00:02:01.200

as well as the neighborhood that you grew up in? It was a very normal, kind of a, you know, small family type of setting. My dad, he was in the army but

00:02:01.200 - 00:02:19.080

then he retired soon after retreating to-to Taiwan. And then he still had the the title of it used to be there was, like a I don't know how to translate

00:02:19.080 - 00:02:35.250

it, the--the kind of a representative to who actually elected to pick the--the president of Taiwan. Okay. So, but it's no longer the-the system.

00:02:35.250 - 00:02:53.610

He was one of that so-called, quota. That means that the people's representative for the just like the the Congress for U.S. But they don't have any authority

00:02:53.610 - 00:03:11.380

to establish law rather, their own sole purpose was to elect president. It's like the like the US delegate system, but it's not quite the same. And because these delegate actually they have pretty

00:03:11.380 - 00:03:30.250

much their-their––they used to be elected by the popular- the populations, okay, and then each represents certain district. But after the Kuomintang retreated from China to Taiwan, they kept the system.

00:03:30.250 - 00:03:44.260

My father was one of the member there. So, he has that that job, but it's just a title, okay. So, he had to make a living, so he actually started to do business and all that.

00:03:44.260 - 00:04:00.290

So, you know, we start from a very kind of normal, kind of, military career, family. And then, you know, my father went in business and-and, you know, he was doing quite well, okay.

00:04:00.290 - 00:04:16.820

So, I didn't sense that at that time, but-but, you know, we-we-we, we live a very comfortable life because I went through the elementary school.

00:04:17.240 - 00:04:36.350

I then went on to junior high and high school and then, went to university, National Taiwan University. Okay. And that was the kind of what at that time was called the so-called number

00:04:36.350 - 00:04:55.830

one university. So all these, kind of, studying career, I was pretty much, just went through the normal, but I-I usually I was the kind of the-the-the-the-the

00:04:55.830 - 00:05:14.640

upper, you know, let's say the guy who actually studied quite well. So,[KP: I understand.] And-and then when I went into National Taiwan University I, you know, get into the mechanical engineering department.

00:05:15.300 - 00:05:35.190

Okay. So, I graduated from there, and soon after that, you know, I went into the military kind of because every, male person after a certain age, they have to be drafted into the army or the

00:05:35.220 - 00:05:53.520

military to go through a couple years of a very good career. I went through that and after, I get discharged from military duty and then I, you know, migrate to U.S. I-I went to graduate school year after that.

00:05:53.520 - 00:06:10.290

So that was, well, nothing really, should I say, you know, just very routine type of a good student studying and all that at school. But outside of school, I was pretty naughty,

00:06:10.320 - 00:06:26.610

let's say, okay. I-I go do all kind of stuff, you know, went fishing, you know, just because at our age, the little kids, you know, went fishing, it's not very often because, you know, I when I went to fishing,

00:06:26.610 - 00:06:42.600

I went to the these pretty big river stream and all that. A lot of kids get drowned. So-So I just don't tell my parents I just went there, you know, just––and also, I, you know, play with my

00:06:42.600 - 00:06:51.550

playmates in the neighborhood. We did all kind of naughty things, you know, like knock on people's door and then hide it. And then when they answer the doorbell, nobody's there,

00:06:51.580 - 00:07:07.870

they get very annoyed. We were very happy. So, that pretty much was my, grew up career. I did remember one thing: I was a different,

00:07:08.800 - 00:07:26.950

because I had the early on, I had this, sense to make money. Okay. Make little money to so I can just spend money, okay. My parents, although our family was quite well,

00:07:27.190 - 00:07:42.430

you know, quite okay. They don't really give me a lot of, you know, little spend money because they they they believe I don't need money anyway, okay. So they don't give me the. But I like to have my own money so I can spend it my way.

00:07:42.460 - 00:07:54.260

Okay. Free money, yeah. So I start to make money. when I was very young, I went to-to this wholesale toy type

00:07:54.260 - 00:08:11.240

of outfit, buy up all these toys and then bring it back and sell it at a profit to the neighborhood kids, okay. This I don't know, you probably don't don't have that. But like, for instance, you know, there's this kind of a box grid

00:08:11.240 - 00:08:25.520

and with the paper on top. And then underneath these are little, little, prize or whatever, okay. And then, you know, you pay that, these kids will pay me,

00:08:25.550 - 00:08:41.510

you know, like $0.10. And I let them poke a hole on one and pick out their winning, okay. I make money that way, and I-I actually, typically my profit ratio is about 50 to 80%, okay. So I was doing that, yeah.

00:08:41.510 - 00:09:00.330

And then, I kind of it, most kids don't do that okay. But I get the learning how to do. And later on I start to to raise bigger money by, raising, and then,

00:09:01.440 - 00:09:21.180

send pigeons, okay. I-I had some pigeon and then I actually send them out to-to-to-to compete against other pigeon raising people. And then we actually---the prices for championship

00:09:21.180 - 00:09:37.170

pigeon, the price, the winning winner, prices quite high. Okay. And you can talk about like roughly about a thousand US dollar equivalent. Say, you know, 60 years ago that was quite a big chunk of money for

00:09:37.170 - 00:09:55.980

little kids, okay. So I was doing that kind of thing. Okay. So I-I-I'm just trying to to say that I'm actually a very normal Taiwanese kid, but have some kind of a weird thinking, okay.

00:09:55.980 - 00:10:11.040

But later on, I realized in my career that actually helped me develop what I call the the business sense and also business development type of intuitive. Yeah, I understand, I understand.

00:10:11.280 - 00:10:23.550

Wow. Great to hear it. Sounds like you had a really, really fun, amazing childhood. What are some values that your parents emphasized in your upbringing? Could you repeat that question?

00:10:24.480 - 00:10:39.090

What are some values that you think your parents instilled in your upbringing? Well, as I said, my father was a pretty good self-made business person, okay. And then, you know, he

00:10:40.890 - 00:10:57.670

started with the start, the first, The taxi company in Taiwan. You know, at the peak of his career, he of course, he has the partners. I think I vaguely remember he talked about he has about

00:10:57.760 - 00:11:17.440

500 taxis running around, okay. kind of these are at that time, he already started this contract taxi type of concept, okay, which was unheard of. So, he actually will-will loan money to the

00:11:17.440 - 00:11:34.270

taxi drivers so they can buy the taxi, and they work for the company and pay back the loans okay, so. And then he later on went into, well, later on, early on, he already, went into not real estate.

00:11:34.270 - 00:11:52.100

He sensed the, the-the-the-the the price of land and real estate will go up, okay. So, he actually bought, not bought, he actually leased a big chunk of these farmland from farmers,

00:11:52.130 - 00:12:09.050

okay for, you know, I'm kind of laughing 99 years. So instead of buying, he leased them. And then at the long term lease at very I wouldn't say reasonable low rate, okay.

00:12:09.920 - 00:12:28.370

And and then later on he started to-to buy back when he has enough cash the land from the farmer and then, came up with the real estate developer to develop into, you know, building housing

00:12:28.370 - 00:12:43.560

project. So, he made money that way too. So. But he also is a very generous type of person because he had all this money and we have all these real estate things.

00:12:43.590 - 00:12:59.790

I remember when I grew up, I lived in a pretty large, you know, one story house that we have about 15 bedrooms. Okay. Yeah-yeah. So, and I can tell you that in one of the rooms,

00:12:59.790 - 00:13:19.860

I actually, that's where I keep my pigeons, okay. It was very funny because I used to build a pigeon house on top above the the house. And then later on, somebody stole all my pigeons

00:13:20.970 - 00:13:33.090

Okay. Yeah, they stole it. Okay because all these are champion nice pigeons, they stole it. So to protect my pigeon, I raised pigeon again but this time keep inside the house.

00:13:34.140 - 00:13:52.890

So, in the daytime, the pigeon would stay outside in the yard. And at night time, they all come in in a row walking through the kitchen, through my house and then into their bedroom. And my-my father never knew that I kept pigeons in--in the

00:13:52.890 - 00:14:08.640

house because the house was so big, okay. And then, well, I have to get to the heart of the--- my story. My–– after we moved from that house, okay,

00:14:09.630 - 00:14:24.690

my father actually donate that big house and the land, okay. Just donate it to a to-to a-a kind of a charitable library, okay.

00:14:24.720 - 00:14:36.330

There was a guy in Taiwan at that time, he actually go out and pick the trash and sell it. Resell the recycled trash thing. Okay. He did it by all by himself.

00:14:36.330 - 00:14:56.410

Raised enough money to establish a library for-for poor children. Okay. But then my father found out that he didn't have a place, so we donated that big house to-to that guy. Let him, you know, set up his library.

00:14:56.980 - 00:15:14.230

So for the totally free. Of course, the-the––there was a condition that they will never sell the house, it's only for library charitable purpose, okay. And then 50 years later, I went back home trying to

00:15:14.230 - 00:15:31.750

find a place nowhere to be found. Because now the the kids or whatever, who continue this library thing, they sold the land, and now it's all apartment buildings; I was so sad,

00:15:32.560 - 00:15:48.050

but. So my father was, you know, pretty generous in terms of charitable thing, he just, you know, have a big heart in, in terms of, you know, taking care of all these things.

00:15:48.080 - 00:16:04.580

So he doesn't publicize that, he just gave it away. Okay. So I, and nowadays I started at my age, I started thinking, okay, I want to do something. So I actually I have been saving money, you know,

00:16:05.120 - 00:16:25.310

aside, so, you know, I am going to establish a small foundation for college scholarship foundation. So, yeah, I have some of my assets stashed away to for that purpose. So that that was inspired by

00:16:25.310 - 00:16:37.100

him. Mhm. Wow. Yeah. Thank you so much. My mother. She just said you know family housewives just cook, cook, cook. And she made excellent dishes that I recall.

00:16:37.130 - 00:16:49.400

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing. I know you mentioned earlier that you went to National Taiwan University for your Bachelor of Science in mechanical engineering.

00:16:49.400 - 00:17:12.650

How did you decide to choose that specific school? Because at that time everybody's number one choice was that so, you know. Now in terms of choice, that was my number two choice.

00:17:12.680 - 00:17:30.020

Number one choice was, of course, computer science, okay. At that time, computer was just starting and, you know, every and I did sign up my number one choice. But then my--- they have the this

00:17:30.020 - 00:17:46.230

college entrance exam, very soon get a score and depend on your score, you get assigned your number one choice and if it's all fail, then they fall into number two. Mechanical engineering was my number two because I

00:17:46.230 - 00:18:02.970

in-in university I was pretty good at physics and that kind of science. Okay I was not good in chemical, so chemistry okay, so course wise. So I pick computer science because it was the fancy

00:18:03.000 - 00:18:16.590

thing, I didn't get in. So number two was mechanical. So, I get into mechanical engineering. So, I was that instead

00:18:16.590 - 00:18:33.230

of choice that's kind of like, you know, it's-it's like lottery but then depend on your score. You get into different and little did I know that actually that decision

00:18:33.230 - 00:18:51.280

pretty much set life for a lot of people and at my age, okay, through that career, because I now realize that had I got into computer science, I would have been building all these computer stuff and,

00:18:51.310 - 00:19:07.780

you know, and maybe, you know, get involved with AI and all that because, you know, you acquire, you acquire not only the basic knowledge of your career, you actually, you know, kind of get involved in-in certain different branches of your

00:19:09.640 - 00:19:19.330

career. Thank you so much for sharing. I understand- One thing, at that time, although we kind of

00:19:19.360 - 00:19:38.120

decide on what we want to do, but we don't have enough freedom. So we never develop or say, okay, okay, I like to do this, therefore I choose this career. This wasn't the case. It was the entrance college entrance exam that

00:19:38.120 - 00:19:52.490

turns most people's fate or career. I see, I see. Yeah, definitely seems like a very different education system than what we have here in the States. Asia is still the same thing.

00:19:52.520 - 00:20:06.980

Yeah. Yeah. Can you describe kind of your overall undergraduate experience and some defining moments that you might have had? Okay. Again, as I mentioned, I was a little naughty kids when I was young,

00:20:07.010 - 00:20:26.780

okay. In college, I was even worse, because I happen to have a something to my advantage. My memory capacity was pretty good, okay. So I usually just read a book, and then I kind of understand it

00:20:26.780 - 00:20:44.090

and understood it and then memorized most of the things, okay, kind of page by page thing. So, going through college in terms of academic career thing, it was relatively easy for me.

00:20:45.740 - 00:21:03.080

So what I end up doing is spending a lot of my time, you know, kind of go play what do you call that? Is it snooker or whatever? You know, you know what I'm talking about.

00:21:03.080 - 00:21:20.180

The these, you know, big table, valve covered. And you, you hit the ball and then get into the hole. There's a and at that time, only the-the-the-the-the student who doesn't

00:21:20.180 - 00:21:36.840

study go spend their time doing that. I did that okay. So and then I went on to spend a lot of my time getting involved in, extracurricular activity.

00:21:36.870 - 00:21:50.310

This, how do I say, in college, you have these two you're singing or, you know, you group all these kids together, you know, do things they like to do outside of study.

00:21:50.340 - 00:22:10.140

Okay. I-I actually, found a couple of my childhood kids, okay, and, we found the society called, Rocket Launching Society. Okay.

00:22:10.170 - 00:22:26.490

Yeah. So it's just this little rocket thing, and you just, you know, you make the rocket, and then you send it up. Okay. And I was doing that when I was very, very young. When I remember, even before I went to, went into elementary school,

00:22:26.520 - 00:22:41.020

I started, you know, go to the outside and we actually made this, you know, kids made rocket. I was doing it with the another neighborhood kids, okay. And he also went to National Taiwan University

00:22:41.050 - 00:22:56.650

so we met and then we kind of came together and then establish this club, okay, rocket launching club, okay. It was the first, how we

00:22:56.650 - 00:23:12.550

call president of the the club, okay. I was the second one. So-so––and anyway, I spent a lot of time doing that, and then this rocket launching society after I graduated actually became

00:23:12.550 - 00:23:28.970

very popular because they actually, you know, get the help from the some military academy type of people and then they launch rocket that went up, you know, several miles, okay.

00:23:29.000 - 00:23:48.070

These are real big rocket. Okay. And-and, of course that rocket type of experience, get-get picked up by the-the Taiwanese military branch, and they actually develop into all these,

00:23:48.070 - 00:24:00.890

you know, new rocket system is they become a big business, I guess, okay. But it started from us, okay. Wow. That's incredible.

00:24:00.890 - 00:24:10.280

That must have been such amazing thing- No, but that's just a hobby. Let's put it–– call it a hobby, okay. But I usually have this,

00:24:14.210 - 00:24:28.760

how should I say, trade. I like to to work on new things and then, you know, help to develop into something useful. But usually before it actually gets its peak,

00:24:28.760 - 00:24:43.990

I usually, you know, will leave the-the spot and then you'll let others carry on so. I see, I see. Thank you for sharing. Kind of switching gears a little bit.

00:24:43.990 - 00:25:06.860

I understand that you moved to the US shortly after your bachelor's. Can you share kind of some your experience moving? What was your first impression of the US and if you faced any challenges? I-I went to University of Minnesota

00:25:07.670 - 00:25:25.020

in Minneapolis, you know, and that actually, now think back, I think it's the it was the best time of my life per se, because I was young and then have all these new things to learn new, new experience.

00:25:25.050 - 00:25:40.980

Okay, I got married before I moved into to the US. Okay, that was on purpose because I-I, you know, I want to, you know, I dated my-my girlfriend, you know, for

00:25:42.450 - 00:25:58.920

four years, you know, in college, okay. And then, she is my wife now, okay. And, we been together and then I. You know, young

00:25:58.920 - 00:26:18.030

and worry free, okay, and we actually had a nice less than three years in the in col---in graduate school, okay. I don't want to brag about it, but I spent about nine

00:26:18.030 - 00:26:38.710

months studying in the department, studying fluid mechanics, okay. Because my goal was at that time to get into aerospace industry because of my rocket launching club hobby,

00:26:38.740 - 00:26:56.590

okay. And then my goal was to become a NASA or whatever, you know, kind of, researchers-research scientists, whatever. And then after nine months, I got my degree, Master's degree okay. I changed my mind.

00:26:56.620 - 00:27:18.160

I saw them saying this, you know, NASA thing aerospace is actually not going to be that popular. So I switched gears into energy. So I actually changed the department to mechanical engineering and chemical

00:27:18.160 - 00:27:36.380

engineering, there was a combined department in the University of Minnesota. Okay. And then I get into heat transfer of energy. Okay, so I spent two years finishing up a PhD degree so

00:27:36.560 - 00:27:49.490

I think it's still a record in that school. Yeah. Wow. I see. Yeah, but I work day and night very hard and I didn't take a single day

00:27:49.490 - 00:28:00.590

vacation. Wow, that's very impressive. I didn't want to leave that soon because it was

00:28:00.590 - 00:28:16.970

very nice. Minnesota is a beautiful place. And then, you know, we, you know, my wife was with me, and then she actually went to a different department, okay. She got her master's degree there but in any

00:28:16.970 - 00:28:34.880

event. But one day, my advisor told me, "Frank, you need to wrap up." I said: "What?" He said, otherwise, you're going to, you know, finish all the

00:28:34.880 - 00:28:55.370

topics that he has in mind for other graduate students. So it's not good. He just kicked me out. So that was–– but I wasn't staying. Kind of a lazy because I published almost

00:28:55.370 - 00:29:14.370

ten, I think 9 or 10 journal papers in that short period of time, I worked for three different professors. Yeah. I actually had two jobs, research assistant and teaching assistant. So, because I want to earn money

00:29:14.370 - 00:29:31.740

and-and some kids, some-some other student was pretty mad and they they they complained to the department head saying how can Frank occupy two spots? Okay. And then the department head went talk to these professors.

00:29:31.740 - 00:29:46.500

They all said, well, he has the capacity, he has the time, and he's the best, so, you know, we want him. So that was there was no issue. So I well I-I

00:29:46.500 - 00:30:01.200

enjoyed that challenge, okay. Because of the three professors, actually four now I think-think back, because I still work for another professor from my old department, the aerospace department,

00:30:01.230 - 00:30:16.510

okay. So I actually serve three major masters, and then, another professor, that's why I managed to publish all these papers. Because they keep telling me, okay, Frank, you can do this and that,

00:30:16.540 - 00:30:31.810

why don't you do that? I did it, and they published the paper. And then I got to begin become the second author. Except the––my thesis, I become their the first author. Okay, so that was a good time, but too

00:30:31.840 - 00:30:43.960

short. Yeah. Sounds like an amazing, amazing time. When you first arrived in the- About you, I'm sure you went through college.

00:30:44.020 - 00:31:02.650

I now wish I had slowed down. A little bit, maybe at least a three, three and a half years so I can enjoy the--the that kind of academic life more. Yeah, definitely. That's very understandable.

00:31:02.650 - 00:31:22.180

So when you first arrived to the US, did you have any culture differences or culture shock that you noticed or did you ever face any discrimination? Answer is no because I was lucky, I felt welcome, okay. Like when I

00:31:22.180 - 00:31:38.800

first, flew to US, I stopped by in Hawaii, okay. At the airport. I went out to the fountain to get some drink, okay. At the lobby hall, the juice comes out.

00:31:38.830 - 00:31:53.380

Not water, juice, fruit juice. I say that's, you know, pineapple. And then this apple and the orange juice coming out from fountain. Drinking fountain.

00:31:53.410 - 00:32:10.300

I said, boy, what a rich place, I ought to enjoy it, because I'm talking about just like the water fountain. And then the, you know, if you don't keep drinking, the juice will just run down.

00:32:12.920 - 00:32:33.740

And so and I went to Minnesota at that time, what we call Midwest, whatever was a very, very, kind of down to earth type of place, people were exceptionally

00:32:34.070 - 00:32:50.270

nice, okay. They treat foreigners very well, okay. I was just a poor graduate student, okay. But we were welcomed. And then we have, I first went to, I signed up for a so-called host family.

00:32:50.300 - 00:33:05.600

Okay. It was a young couple, American couple, white couple. You know, they-they-they kind of. We stayed with them for a couple of weeks, and and it was in their home. Okay. Before I moved to the to the

00:33:05.630 - 00:33:16.860

dormitory or whatever. And then, they treat us very nice. Every of people, every person I met in that region was so nice, okay.

00:33:16.890 - 00:33:35.250

It's true. And, of course, at that time, the American was at the peak of our economic accomplishment and all that. And now people are making good living and all that, so I think they can afford to be kind

00:33:35.250 - 00:33:52.080

to immigrants, okay. I was an immigrant, okay, frankly speaking. And, nobody really cared. Yes. You talk down on me or and-and, of course, I was in

00:33:52.080 - 00:34:09.880

school. All the, students that the faculty member, they were all exceptionally nice to me, yeah. Because, I-I used to-to-to-to just kind

00:34:09.880 - 00:34:26.680

of think, okay, well, you know, they treat people like family members truly, okay. Yeah. We got invite to to to have a dinner or whatever with the the professors and all that.

00:34:26.680 - 00:34:39.400

I am sure they still do not nowadays. Okay. But, like Minnesota, Michigan and all these places, now my feeling is they are so divided.

00:34:42.640 - 00:34:58.360

Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree. I feel sorry for it because, at that time, American was- America was so strong in terms of in international status and we don't worry about,

00:34:58.390 - 00:35:15.760

you know, immigrants coming and kind of steal job from the locals. So now there's, there's this kind of conflict I-I sense that, okay. But I have my own thought, but still I think

00:35:17.380 - 00:35:35.140

if everybody is thinking, like my dad was thinking, have an open heart and open mind, then all these would not have been an issue, okay. Because if you are willing to give out or give away, you know, more than half of your life long

00:35:35.140 - 00:35:52.630

saving just for free, then I'm sure you don't mind some people coming to this country and work and contribute. Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much for sharing. I think pivoting a little now towards your career,

00:35:53.170 - 00:36:07.760

can you sort of explain, like, the I know you mentioned this earlier technology that you kind of pioneered, would you kind of mind explaining that for kind of the average person to understand the work that you were doing? Okay. I went through 3 or 4 different business

00:36:07.760 - 00:36:23.930

divisions in Shell. First job I landed, I was in the research center, the corporate research center in Houston, okay. And then I did the modeling work, okay.

00:36:25.010 - 00:36:43.700

Computer modeling work because, you know, you remember I––my specialty was fluid dynamics and all that and heat transfer and fluid dynamics in that arena, I was part of the––I follow a professor who was very pioneer in these computer simulation

00:36:43.700 - 00:37:00.530

for fluid flow, okay. So we actually develop, the-the-the heart of the engine, okay, computational engine. So, I had that talent and then I was using that to

00:37:00.560 - 00:37:17.430

simulate the chemical reactors and fluid flow type of stuff. Okay, for a couple of years I was doing good. That was for the chemical engineering side, chemistry, chemical department, okay.

00:37:18.840 - 00:37:30.090

I told you I wasn't good at chemistry. Chemical, but I overcame that. Okay, so I was doing that as well. Because the chemistry thing is easy for computer.

00:37:30.120 - 00:37:48.240

You just program. So they would actually follow the the model, okay, and about third year in my career in Shell, I was called in by a big shot in tech headquarter

00:37:48.270 - 00:38:06.850

downtown. He told me, okay, Frank, we have an assignment for you because. Oh. It looks like your camera may have went out for a second. Can you still hear me?

00:38:07.090 - 00:38:17.500

There was a computer glitch. I'm on. I'm on. It should come back. Can I go reset my video? Yeah.

00:38:17.530 - 00:38:38.290

No worries. Go ahead. Using laptop shouldn't be a problem was the I had a switch box that I actually have a business computer and a personal computer, just that box just dropped it.

00:38:38.710 - 00:38:55.660

Okay. Should I continue? Yeah. No worries. Go ahead and continue. Okay. And he said at that time, Shell-Shell Oil Company, that was my company. We've been losing furnaces.

00:38:55.840 - 00:39:08.680

These are the process heaters. Okay. The furnace that heat up the the crude or whatever. And then, you know, get into chemical reaction and downstream power and all that.

00:39:08.710 - 00:39:26.200

In the refining, in the refineries at the rate of roughly about, I don't remember two furnaces a year or one furnace every two years. But one of those that's you're talking about,

00:39:26.200 - 00:39:40.840

the furnace will just, you know, fail-fail and then, you know, the whole thing just stopped. You see, in these heaters, it's like your your water heater at home, okay, has tubes. Okay.

00:39:40.870 - 00:39:57.370

And then you actually burn fuel to heat up the in your house water and in the refinery. Some, some fluid usually is crude or some chemical inside. Okay. If you have a tube rupture as a whole and

00:39:57.370 - 00:40:13.820

you're in trouble because those are flammable stuff. Okay. They actually will burn and if you don't shut down fast enough, you actually melt the whole thing down, okay. So the company was suffering losses like

00:40:13.820 - 00:40:36.920

that. So I was a young engineer. He gave me the the assignment to come up with a--- are you still there? Come up with a way to deal with it. Oh, I couldn't hear you.

00:40:48.800 - 00:41:04.620

Can you hear me? You hear me? Yes. I cannot hear you. But can you hear me? Hello? Can you hear me?

00:41:04.650 - 00:41:17.730

Oh, yeah, I hear you now. Good. Okay, let me continue. I think I need to be fast. So I

00:41:17.730 - 00:41:35.640

spent three years, assemble a team of about a dozen engineers, okay, some of them are a lot older than me. And then with the 4 or 5 technicians, and we launch a R&D program to try to solve this problem.

00:41:35.910 - 00:41:51.690

The problem, of course, the harder problem is you need to find a way to measure the tube temperature of the process tube. If you can do that correctly, accurately, then you can do something about it.

00:41:51.690 - 00:42:06.550

You can shut down before it fails, or you can early on if you catch your we call hot hotspot, okay. These are hotspot caused by deposition or, like, charred material inside on the inside wall of the tube,

00:42:07.120 - 00:42:18.670

okay. I spent three years. Spent lots, lots of millions of millions of dollars, okay. Because I asked the the the the old guy downtown say, okay, what is my budget?

00:42:18.700 - 00:42:35.710

He said, no limit. You just spend whatever you you want to spend. But he sent me a go, he said you have to reach 95. 95. That means before year nine, 1995, okay. I have to we have to reach

00:42:35.740 - 00:42:49.570

95% production reliability goal means the furnace has to be up and the whole corporation overall.

00:42:49.600 - 00:43:05.440

95% up. And when I took over the project, we were about 70 The something percent, yeah. But a lot of time, you know, the furnace were down. Okay, so your company was losing hundreds of million dollars a year,

00:43:05.470 - 00:43:20.560

okay. Yeah. So I spent three years, I did all this research at where I started about IR infrared tomography scanning type of thing. We only focus on furnaces.

00:43:20.740 - 00:43:39.880

Okay. And then after three years, I wrap up and produce report and then form the the team to actually take care of all the furnaces throughout Shell worldwide. Yeah. So I'm pretty proud

00:43:39.880 - 00:43:54.940

to to say that, of all these years, all these furnaces for those furnaces that under our care, there was no tube rupture.

00:43:55.130 - 00:44:13.660

We actually either forewarned ahead of time or, you know, change operations so that we can, you know, continue. So, but in any event, we, Shell

00:44:13.660 - 00:44:30.890

actually kept this know how as a company secret. So we keep a core team of just, you know, 2 or 3 person within each Europe and US that has a know how, know how to do it properly.

00:44:30.890 - 00:44:50.120

And then in each refinery or each plant location, we have 1 or 2 person who actually went out, take the the infrared image and then they can do preliminary analysis. We, the core team back at headquarters or home office,

00:44:50.150 - 00:45:08.640

we actually double check or we sometimes send out people to to go take new data. Okay, so that's how it was managed. And we've been doing that for about 40 years in Shell, and nobody else outside the shell knew about this

00:45:08.640 - 00:45:24.660

because we want to keep it a secret so that, you know, nobody can know that we actually can push the heater to the limit without breaking it. That was the thing. And then, of course,

00:45:25.410 - 00:45:39.150

I went on to get into become energy coordinator. All these executive ranks later on. Okay. But the structure I left, I kept there, went on for many, many decades.

00:45:39.180 - 00:45:56.010

Okay. In Shell. Okay. And then after I retired from Shell, you know, I had the people from Exxon Mobil, from BP and all these folks want me to, you know, help them consolidate for them.

00:45:56.040 - 00:46:10.380

I turned them all down because I didn't want to, you know, betray Mother Shell, per se okay. Yeah, it's Mother Shell to me, okay. So I only consult for a very small refinery independence,

00:46:10.410 - 00:46:28.230

okay. 3 or 4 of them, that's how I, you know, start my consulting career after I left Shell. Okay. So, but then about 4 or 5 years ago, I knew that shell

00:46:28.230 - 00:46:45.630

was exiting. We sold almost all the refinery in the whole wide world. So this technology is no longer relevant to shell business. Shell doesn't want it anymore. So I started to build this and back up, and then I kind of joined forces

00:46:45.630 - 00:46:57.400

with with the bank. Okay. That's my the company I'm with right now. So they've been doing this quite successfully in the last four years, almost five now.

00:46:57.400 - 00:47:12.280

So they're trying to, you know, but of course all the know how are with with me. Okay. So I taught I trained a whole new team and we did we followed that. And that's the ion thing.

00:47:12.280 - 00:47:33.670

And we are still very unique in the sense that we are probably the, I should say, definitely the most accurate, the team that can do the most accurate measurement. Because back in the Shell days, I invented a lot of little gizmos.

00:47:33.700 - 00:47:48.190

Okay, we actually can use that to to check our accuracy. Like one of the major inventions I did was what something we call Goldfinger, okay. You heard about the Goldfinger double seven movie?

00:47:50.750 - 00:48:01.100

I don't think so. Ah, you're too young. That talk about a guy, you know, you know, has a he likes to go he. So he touch things, turn everything into gold.

00:48:01.130 - 00:48:18.530

Okay. Now, this Goldfinger thing, it's actually an instrument, a water-cooled instrument we insert into the furnace. Touch a tube. It has a cup, small cup, gold plated. And because of that gold plated thing,

00:48:18.530 - 00:48:35.960

we can actually measure the tube temperature while the furnace is running to within 2 to 3°F. So it's the best tool you can use to verify your ion measurement.

00:48:37.160 - 00:48:51.990

So that's become a little bit too technical. But that was my invention, so I feel proud of it. And we we are using that technology even today. Of course, not too many people knew about it because that was a secret.

00:48:54.000 - 00:49:05.220

Wow. Yeah. That's fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing your work. I know throughout your career, your roles have kind of really evolved to kind of like an executive position.

00:49:05.460 - 00:49:19.680

Can you share the kind of rewards that came with that, as well as maybe how your philosophy towards working has changed or how you approach the industry? Okay. Well, I you know, energy is another

00:49:19.680 - 00:49:37.920

part of my Shell career and also my know how. So after research center, after all these engineering things, I went on to, the gas and power division in Shell, you know, show US I was there,

00:49:38.100 - 00:49:56.430

I became the general manager, you know, that was in Houston, downtown for these energy management, okay. I was also the energy coordinator for Shell US Corporation. The that I got involved in price

00:49:56.430 - 00:50:14.190

negotiation with the power company with, you know, some kind of a energy supply chain, okay. And of course, I was part of the the very important part of how to keep the energy efficiency high

00:50:14.190 - 00:50:34.380

in manufacturing plants: that was what we were doing, okay. And then after that venture, I get promoted to become the Senior VP for Shell's engineering

00:50:34.410 - 00:50:54.580

arm in the US. Okay. And, of course, I was doing that business and business development and also business and and technology integration that just pick out the best applicable

00:50:54.610 - 00:51:10.270

technology, the one that has the, a competitive advantage against other people, other oil companies, and use it successfully in operation to accomplish business revenue.

00:51:10.300 - 00:51:27.520

Okay, that's kind of my job. So I was running around and all that, and then following that, I went to Shell's Beijing office, I was their Executive Vice President

00:51:27.520 - 00:51:43.390

there. I managed to to sign a deal with the Chinese government on several fronts. Okay. And one is the the one was the the coal gasification conversion project, okay.

00:51:43.430 - 00:52:03.260

Because at that time we were trying to turn the coal energy into electricity. So you have to first convert the coal, a solid coal into gas fuel into CO and hydrogen, and then use that to run the turbine

00:52:03.440 - 00:52:19.130

generator. The turbine generator is just a small airplane engine. The same thing. Okay. And then this whole we call combined cycle electric system. Okay.

00:52:20.210 - 00:52:39.380

You know, we signed on a couple of dozen of these contract with Chinese government. And also, I was early on in pioneering persuade the Chinese government to give us the contract to do

00:52:39.380 - 00:52:56.040

energy improvement in all their plants. Plan. So well, I signed the deal. We got 120 for that refinery in China all in one contract.

00:52:56.160 - 00:53:16.140

But then we didn't carry it out because I left that job, you know, afterwards and then somebody else took over, and then, Shell made the decision to do differently. We want to, you know, instead of at that time,

00:53:16.140 - 00:53:33.240

the idea was we will actually be the partner with the refinery. Chinese refinery will provide capital, this and that. So I actually, you know, plan out a joint venture company with the Sinopec, PetroChina and the World Bank and the shell.

00:53:33.390 - 00:53:51.540

The World Bank will provide capital to for all these improvement projects. And shell will provide the management and the know how. And the other two companies, they are the client customer. So it was a pretty ambitious plan.

00:53:51.660 - 00:54:06.390

That didn't happen and I'll explain later. I left that job for health reasons. Okay. And then that joint venture didn't. Didn't come to fruition.

00:54:06.390 - 00:54:20.400

Instead, Shell just said, okay, we're going to, you know, send him to to do energy improvement project planning for you. Okay. But later on that fizzles out because in China,

00:54:20.490 - 00:54:36.240

I knew all along that unless you put in capital, unless you put in the energy system, they will eventually copy it and then try to do it their own way. And then the whole initiative was lost. Okay. Yeah. And then we sign on

00:54:36.270 - 00:54:54.850

these gas pipeline project moved the gas from the western production field eastbound to the seaboard regions where they actually use the gas.

00:54:55.060 - 00:55:11.050

That means you move the western gas supply into eastern provinces, and--and that, you know, we got successfully signed the contract.

00:55:11.050 - 00:55:25.690

We actually, you know, was going to build the pipeline and all this and that. And it's like a, you know, building a tollway. And then you'll be sitting for, you know, a hundred years collecting tolls,

00:55:25.690 - 00:55:44.840

which is nice, huh. And in exchange, actually, the Chinese government allowed Shell to have gas station built in China, which was a no no in the in the past. No foreign country should own that except in Hong Kong.

00:55:44.870 - 00:56:03.350

Okay. So we actually, you know, managed to to build, start building this thing in Chengdu in--in the Sichuan province. Okay. And the gas station, of course, that also, you know, went up to smoke after I left because Shell

00:56:03.680 - 00:56:17.840

sold that contract, the gas pipeline contract to a different oil company. Okay. And for whatever reason, Shell was doing that. But in any event,

00:56:19.550 - 00:56:38.910

now back to the the thing I talk about, I left that for health reasons because, when I was the EVP in, in China, I was commuting from Houston and Beijing back and forth three, four times a month because

00:56:39.180 - 00:56:57.150

I have, you know, people in China, in Asia I manage and also I have still have the same team in--in--in Houston because, you know, we need to have the engineers and all that to help support energy improvement project, okay.

00:56:57.180 - 00:57:12.780

So I and also at that time we still have business energy business in Houston, which you know, I also-I also supervise. So I was doing too much. It took toll on my on my body.

00:57:12.780 - 00:57:30.300

I didn't realize because I didn't feel anything bad until one day I flew back from Beijing to Houston and then in the next, I get back, you know, at midnight or whatever, and the next morning I went to have a breakfast meeting with my staff in

00:57:30.300 - 00:57:49.440

Houston, and then I collapsed in that breakfast. And then they sent me to emergency whatever. And doctor, realized that I actually I had an ulcer, what they call upper GI

00:57:49.500 - 00:58:01.380

bleeding. I lost half of my blood. I didn't know about it. Yeah, it was all in my stomach. I didn't know about it. And I was still organizing meeting until the ambulance sent

00:58:01.410 - 00:58:18.330

me to the emergency room. And then I start to the muscle, relax, whatever. And all these blood came out my my pant, and then, you know, just whole flow of

00:58:18.330 - 00:58:36.040

of thing. And it was pretty bad. And doctor told me afterwards they had this happened a little bit sooner, I would have died on the airplane coming back to the US because nobody can save me. So that was

00:58:36.070 - 00:58:51.100

a hard lesson I learned. I said, okay, it's either my career or my life. Okay, so I chose my life. I-I hope you--you appreciate the correctness of my

00:58:51.100 - 00:59:03.550

choice. so. Oh, definitely. Yeah. I was 50 something. 55, I remember. So I told my boss it was the big shop--big shop

00:59:03.550 - 00:59:21.850

in Holland, I said no I cannot keep doing that. So I stepped down from these high stress kind of management job. I become the focus more on the technology side.

00:59:21.880 - 00:59:38.510

So I went back to the US, I kind of start to put back all these, you know, at that time, it's not just infrared. It's what we call remote monitoring of equipment. Okay. Infrared scan is just part of it.

00:59:38.510 - 00:59:54.170

So I was doing the the global mean worldwide technology integration integration manager for that. So, so I had the, the freedom of

00:59:54.440 - 01:00:10.490

traveling around the world at the time I choose, okay, not commuting 3 or 4 times a month. And you know, just to-to promote the-the this remote monitoring technique.

01:00:10.520 - 01:00:25.610

Okay. That was good job, because then I'm away from all these, you know, kind of politics type of thing. Backstabbing, if you know what I mean.

01:00:25.640 - 01:00:47.570

Okay. So I enjoyed it for a couple of years until, my last job, I was in Shell Malaysia, okay. I was there trying to relaunch the the infrared program in Asia because

01:00:47.570 - 01:01:01.400

we did all these things throughout the world, except in Asia, of course. In Asia, we didn't, you know, I was on purpose. I knew the Korean guys, the Indian chap.

01:01:01.430 - 01:01:15.230

They are very good at also Chinese guy in stealing technology. Okay. If they knew about it, they were kind of spying and, you know, figure out all the things and then, you know, they will hire you afterwards.

01:01:15.260 - 01:01:35.400

So we didn't do anything in Asia except, you know, in, you know, my assignment last time was to build the core guy, the core team in Asia, okay, for shell refineries. And then after a little bit over a year there,

01:01:36.120 - 01:01:49.800

it was supposed to be a three, four year assignment. of course I did it also partially for kind of like a numerous last leg of my career. I want to, you know, relax and spend some time,

01:01:49.830 - 01:02:07.560

you know, take advantage of this kind of assignment. So I did establish that remote monitoring technology for a couple of the largest Shell refinery in that region. Until one day, my boss called me and said, Frank,

01:02:07.830 - 01:02:25.110

you know, we have a exciting news for you. He said, okay, your next assignment will be in India. So he said, you're going to be ahead of me to India. You're going to establish a engineering center,

01:02:25.110 - 01:02:46.300

an engineering center that will house eventually 5000 engineers and those will be the new engineering center worldwide for Shell. And you got to build a building that put the team together and all that. I told my boss at times, say, hey,

01:02:46.330 - 01:02:59.200

buddy, it's not my cup of tea. I'm too old for that job. Okay. Yeah. I was 60 something 61. Okay. So I didn't want to take that job, because

01:02:59.230 - 01:03:14.380

that sounds like a very, you know, stressful job, I could lose my life again. Can you imagine having three meals Indian food every day for- i didn't sign

01:03:14.380 - 01:03:31.580

up for that. So I negotiated a term with my boss, and then they sent me back to us for six months. I was supposed to do a brain dump of all my know how, put in paper, pick up a few successes and then call it

01:03:33.380 - 01:03:51.230

call it deal, okay, done. So I, I left Shell exactly at 30 years career with Shell; that was my choice. Okay. So I retire about 62 I guess

01:03:51.260 - 01:04:06.140

61,62. So, and my left Shell, I really like to work with Shell colleagues and all that because when I first joined Shell, Shell was the number one oil company in terms of technology, in terms of initiatives.

01:04:06.380 - 01:04:25.040

By the time I left, it was in a place I really don't recognize anymore, because a lot of politics and this and that. And Shell chairman was sad because of all these, you know, shady business deals deal and all that.

01:04:25.040 - 01:04:40.760

So, yeah. And I, I'm quite proud that even though I got it deal with the get to deal with a lot of strange people in Asia for the last leg of my career, like Chinese, Korean folks.

01:04:40.790 - 01:04:56.630

Okay. And yeah, there are a lot of, you know, kind of under-table hanky panky type of thing going on. I knew about it, but I just stay away from that because, you know, in

01:04:56.630 - 01:05:11.690

any event, I think you can still do good business if you earn the respect of your client. Okay, that was my. Because we should really sell the technology, and people choose you because you have better product,

01:05:11.720 - 01:05:27.180

better technology, solve their problem. They can see it, okay, they don't need to to to bribe you or whatever. You don't need to--to--to do extra to earn the business and respect of the people.

01:05:27.210 - 01:05:39.720

Because if you do that, they don't respect you anymore. Yeah, definitely. Thank you for sharing that. Solid advice. Um, it's not easy, I tell you. Okay. Mhm.

01:05:40.620 - 01:05:49.020

Yeah, definitely. I was, you know, now I retired. I don't have a lot to do. I watch the TV from Asia, Taiwan.

01:05:49.020 - 01:06:04.950

And you knew about this third party chairman the, the old Taipei mayor is taking bribe and all that. And I have the sense I said, okay, this guy took money for sure.

01:06:05.520 - 01:06:21.790

Yeah, he's talking about gobble, gobble. You know, you're talking about probably 50, 100 million USD in in, in, in money. All in kind of a

01:06:21.820 - 01:06:34.960

Bitcoin, that kind of stuff. Yeah. But now he got caught. I think I'm sorry. This has nothing to do with me. Just tell you---[KP: No worries no worries, no worries.] These things okay.

01:06:35.740 - 01:06:50.800

Yeah definitely I think just last few questions about the career. What advice would you give to Asian-Americans of this younger generation that are currently interested in pursuing sort of a similar career? A good question. I have two sons.

01:06:50.950 - 01:07:06.400

One became a professor, a stable job and very nice, okay. In Michigan. The second one, I think he inherited a little bit of my bloodline. Okay. He is now in Tokyo. He first went there for, you know, a tour, whatever.

01:07:06.430 - 01:07:18.310

And then he liked that place. He stayed there for over a year, whatever. And one day he called me and said, dad, you know, would you donate some money?

01:07:18.310 - 01:07:28.740

I-I use up all my savings. I said yes. I give you my moral support. Okay. And I will even do further. I buy you a one way ticket home.

01:07:28.740 - 01:07:43.500

You go back to-to US. He graduated from Berkeley and have all these nice credentials. And then you find a job and earn your money. You can go anywhere you want to, whatever you like.

01:07:44.340 - 01:07:56.850

And I learned that from my dad. Because when I left Taiwan for US, my dad gave me a small amount of money. I remember it was about 5,000 USD.

01:07:57.270 - 01:08:09.930

I was married already. He said, son, you know, this is it. This is the money you start your your life, okay. I hope you don't come back to ask for more; that's a hint that you know

01:08:09.930 - 01:08:21.500

you're on your own. So I took that money and I built my life. So I was trying to give the same rights to my son. And he was pretty gutsy. He didn't take the the the offer.

01:08:21.500 - 01:08:38.210

He didn't, you know, he just flew back to US this and that. And then he found another company sent him as an expat to Japan again. Okay. He was doing all that and he's doing all kind of go through all kind of he's in computer science,

01:08:38.210 - 01:08:54.740

so he's doing base game building advertising type of stuff. Okay. I don't know. Honestly, I don't know what he is doing. But then just a couple years ago, he started to do his

01:08:54.740 - 01:09:09.290

own startup. He gets some venture capital money, quite a bit. Okay. And then he's busy building his own company now and still single. Okay. And my wife and I, we're a little worried about his marriage, this and that.

01:09:09.290 - 01:09:25.500

But nowadays you know, your parent has no say in-in-in their, you know, adult life. I'm sure you-you appreciate that. Okay. Because the more I talk to him, the more it has negative

01:09:25.500 - 01:09:43.050

impact. Okay. So, young folks, is you have to look at the worldwide trend. Okay. Like, right now several years ago, it was, you know, pretty good China

01:09:43.050 - 01:09:59.460

and I'm talking about Asia, China and US relationship now is pretty much, at the bottom. Okay. Yeah. But eventually they will find a norm. Okay. An Asian American kid, okay, they have

01:09:59.460 - 01:10:12.120

the right cultural background because they are Americans. They have the language skill. Okay. But they cannot outshine the

01:10:12.120 - 01:10:30.610

number one white American, number two Indian-American. Because, yeah, culture wise, a lot of Asian kids were brought up just focus on academic things, focus on being good at certain skill and don't

01:10:30.610 - 01:10:47.950

have the the life and business sense. And they need to develop that and then utilize their best quality. I you know, no matter you don't have to go to Asia to do things,

01:10:47.950 - 01:11:07.150

but link up with a business that has a large share of business profit from outside the US because the US, in my opinion, although we try very hard to to step the-the progress in in China, even if we are successful in that pretty soon

01:11:07.150 - 01:11:21.350

the India will take over and then we'll have to fight them again this and that. So it doesn't work in my opinion. So, you know, if you want to work for a company, work for a company that has that potential and better yet,

01:11:21.380 - 01:11:37.550

and you're willing to send you to overseas for 4 or 5 years, get you exposed or immersed into a different culture, different perspective, because, you know, we are slightly different than the American born kids.

01:11:37.580 - 01:11:52.130

Okay. Because I'm sure you keep asking me the question, saying, do I see, you know, differential treatment. Well, definitely. Yes. Okay. Because we look different and we probably behave

01:11:52.130 - 01:12:09.440

differently too, because I'm sure you got, you know, brainwashed by your parents that you should obey this and you should do that. So it's not the same with American kids. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you a question.

01:12:09.470 - 01:12:22.610

How many of you dare to try drugs and all that when you're young? Not that many, right? That was a no no. That's the same thing I taught my kids. Okay. But, you know, we have different values.

01:12:23.960 - 01:12:39.890

Okay, so but try to use the best you have. Because if you just stay in a company doing a technical career. Be watchful, be mindful. By the time you're 50 years old, you

01:12:39.890 - 01:12:55.280

will get into crisis in your life. Like I worked with Shell. My goal, my ambition was to become CEO of some way, somewhere, okay. But I knew early on in my life

01:12:55.280 - 01:13:12.390

I was not possible in the US or in Europe. So that's why I, you know, kind of cultivate my career toward Asia. Okay. And I almost got it because I was going to be the CEO

01:13:12.390 - 01:13:26.550

for joint venture company between the Shell, Sinopec, and PetroChina, World Bank and Shell. Remember that I was forming a joint venture company,

01:13:26.550 - 01:13:40.560

and that kind of career would be fun. Okay. Okay. And also, don't forget opportunities. Okay. I'll give you one, one good example.

01:13:40.740 - 01:13:52.140

It didn't happen in my life. There's all kind of thing that didn't happen. Okay. Like, one year, I had several rich friends in Taiwan. Okay.

01:13:52.530 - 01:14:07.380

These are business guys. I link up when I was doing and they asked me, say, hey, Frank, would you be willing to, you know, set up, start up a a some kind of new business in Asia with

01:14:07.380 - 01:14:19.330

us? We will put the money. Okay. There are two conditions. One is you have to tell us what to do, what business they should get in. They have gobbling, gobbling money to invest.

01:14:19.330 - 01:14:35.170

And then secondly, I have to quit Shell and I have to, you know, put a small capital. But then I get to run the business and I get a very good share of the business. So I gave it some thought,

01:14:35.590 - 01:14:53.290

and I thought about Starbuck. Starbuck was still a relatively new thing in Seattle at that time, but I was there. I saw it, I see this stop start up shop springing up here and there.

01:14:53.560 - 01:15:14.890

So I brought these investors to Seattle and met with Starbuck, and we actually struck a deal for $80 million. Starbuck would it give us the right for the China and Taiwan to build the startup

01:15:15.520 - 01:15:33.490

Starbuck empire. That was such a good deal, wouldn't you say? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. So I earnestly try to that it's easy. You know, it's not easy for me to, to quit Shell.

01:15:33.820 - 01:15:49.660

But at that time, I was ready to do something new. Okay. But I have to come up with, unfortunately, $8 million. 10%. That was a lot of money.

01:15:49.900 - 01:16:06.850

Okay. When I was, you know, like 50 years old, 40, some 50. So I start to think about, you know, my mortgage and borrow money, this and that. Okay. Eventually I got cold feet.

01:16:07.310 - 01:16:26.000

Okay, but it wasn't the money, I know I can borrow money. I can kind of, you know, go knock on your relatives door and get money, okay. I can even, you know-you know, siphon off some of my parents, you know, savings.

01:16:27.710 - 01:16:45.590

The problem was, I did the wrong calculation. Because I figure in the US, every cup of coffee can sell for so much. So I was basing on a cup of coffee price was a dollar and 50 US equivalent or was that kind of like a,

01:16:45.620 - 01:16:58.610

you know, a sky high figure in China at that time. But I didn't realize I could sell it for 3 to $5 euro dollar equivalent. And there's still buyers.

01:16:59.150 - 01:17:13.230

So I did the wrong calculation. So I said, okay, to get my $8 million this and that back to taking this in that year would be it would just simply take too long. So it was a wrong judgment on my side.

01:17:13.260 - 01:17:29.280

I didn't make that happen. So afterward, I heard that I don't know what it. Starbuck, becomes smart after our deal broke through, they found they carve up China into

01:17:29.280 - 01:17:45.090

four parts, including Taiwan. They sold each part for $50 million. So that was the deal after our first deal. So, don't underestimate your your self.

01:17:45.390 - 01:17:58.050

I keep talking about these money. That's not the the the issue. I never worry about money. It's just about your aspiration.

01:17:58.050 - 01:18:15.700

What you want to do in your career. Building a software empire in China and Taiwan would be a nice thing that that that's what would motivate me and the young American kid, American folks should think about

01:18:15.700 - 01:18:32.710

that. Use your own potential to your advantage, because US is a small part of the world; there's a lot of other people out there that has Asian connection. You know, understand Asian culture.

01:18:32.740 - 01:18:43.630

You know, would like to to deal with people the Asian way and the white American guy. A lot of those don't get it. That's all.

01:18:46.060 - 01:18:59.710

Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I think moving on to like kind of the second part of our interview, which is just building kind of a fuller--- Life story, is always spoken.

01:19:01.180 - 01:19:13.270

Just I would like to, like, kind of build a little more of a vivid portrait of like you as a person. So kind of the first question that we have prepared is how do you identify yourself in terms of ethnicity and nationality?

01:19:14.710 - 01:19:32.410

I'm American. Yeah. Good. Once I moved to this country, I knew all these, say a little bit less than 50 or 40 some years, I, I've been in this country, this country actually offered me a lot

01:19:32.440 - 01:19:51.340

of opportunity, gave me a lot of training, gave me a lot of life experience that I use it to-to better my life. So, you know, number one, America. So, I, you know, I like to make American America

01:19:51.370 - 01:20:06.110

great again, but not the Trump way. Okay. Because I think we can use our experience to, to build a better world. For instance, global warming.

01:20:06.140 - 01:20:22.250

Okay. And all these things. US has the the power. We have the financial and we control a lot of financial transactions and banks and all that. Okay. And, you know, we should, you know, think about that because

01:20:22.250 - 01:20:33.530

I think global warming is a real trend. We need to do something about it. Okay. Otherwise my house will be beachfront, that would not be a good thing.

01:20:33.560 - 01:20:47.240

Okay. well, I live 60 miles inland. Okay. [KP: Mhm.] Yeah. Can you tell us about some hobbies or interests that you have outside of your career?

01:20:48.650 - 01:21:06.750

Public interest? Oh, yeah. I got involved with you folks for a fun funding requests, I request the The Chao Family Foundation because I don't belong to this church.

01:21:06.780 - 01:21:25.740

There's a Houston Chinese Church, which happened to be the oldest Chinese Asian church in Houston area, okay. And then just two years ago, they had this community service initiative.

01:21:25.770 - 01:21:45.030

They want to build, you know, instead of building a church, they want to build, you know, library, gymnasium and, you know, child care, senior center, that kind of thing for community

01:21:45.060 - 01:22:01.480

service purposes. So, the HCC actually happened that I well, I--I believe in God, but not the devoted as the kind of

01:22:01.660 - 01:22:13.810

Bible that kind of way. Okay. I think there's a law in the universe that I didn't understand. Okay, but there is something like that, okay.

01:22:13.990 - 01:22:25.720

You can call it God. So everything probably is preplanned. Okay. Have a start, have an end, okay, I don't know what will happen. I don't worry about it, okay.

01:22:25.750 - 01:22:40.270

My life is too short. But still, I would like to contribute to goodwill. Good things. And this sounds like a good thing. So I approach a lady

01:22:40.270 - 01:22:58.090

Chao, for, you know, introduction to the family. Their family foundation request some funding to help build the gymnasium next to the church for kids to use. The a church, we actually have a

01:22:58.900 - 01:23:15.190

plan to have these use like after school tutoring whatever help so that the the poor kids in the neighborhood

01:23:15.190 - 01:23:25.540

can come and play ball. This and that, and then afterward they can, you know, stay and do their homework until their parents get home. They can go back home.

01:23:25.540 - 01:23:42.280

And we also have daycare facility there. And we in this church, we will actually have it was a warehouse building---they---next to the church, they acquired a big one and they will donate part of to the

01:23:42.670 - 01:23:59.660

Houston Food Bank for storage docking and all that. So, those are all good cause in my opinion. Okay, so I took on the the challenge to get some outside funding, mainly from the Chao Family Foundation,

01:23:59.930 - 01:24:18.590

okay. So that was kind of thing. I think we should do it, okay. And and I also encourage the Asian parents don't leave too much money for their kids because it will

01:24:18.590 - 01:24:35.780

only spoil them. They don't need the money. They should really, put the money like Chao Foundation, you know, do to encourage the general, you know, third or fourth generation Asian kids to go into

01:24:35.780 - 01:24:48.920

college to do this and do that. You follow what I mean? like, I personally have set up a trust that will actually take care of the college funding for my grandkids.

01:24:48.950 - 01:25:04.320

Okay. Yeah, that's the kind of a selfish private side, okay. Of course, I said that for those kids, grandkids want to go to college, they will get money for their college funding. But those who don't go to college, they get

01:25:04.620 - 01:25:20.550

maybe half or 25% of the--that would be tuition, okay, as a gift. So you either get full or you get part, okay. If you don't go to college, you don't get the full amount.

01:25:20.850 - 01:25:30.000

So that was my design. So, we'll see. Yeah, definitely. Thank you for sharing. I-

01:25:30.000 - 01:25:42.540

May I ask a question--question? Do you have a rich dad and mom? No, I think they're pretty average parents. Okay. Just like okay. Yeah.

01:25:42.690 - 01:25:57.100

Just like myself. When I landed in the US, I have $5,000. Mhm. Yeah, definitely. It's amazing kind of how far you went with that small

01:25:57.520 - 01:26:10.300

bit as your starting point. That's why I am so appreciative to the-to America, because this country made me into something, if whatever.

01:26:10.330 - 01:26:25.240

Then I need to pay back. That's why we like to contribute back to, you know, charitable things, you know, continuously. Yeah. All right. Before we wrap up our interview,

01:26:25.270 - 01:26:39.550

I wanted to ask if there was any things that you would like to share before we close off for the day. Okay. Now, just one question. This interview thing, what would be the-the result?

01:26:39.580 - 01:26:51.040

Would be just this interview video? Right? So how this process works is there'll be the video and we'll also be creating a transcript.

01:26:51.220 - 01:27:08.440

So our team of interns will work together and put together a transcript that we will send to you to be approved and it's part of kind of our larger collection, just of Asian American stories and documenting kind of the movement and transformation of Asians in the Houston area.

01:27:08.770 - 01:27:18.850

So do I get a chance to read not only my story, but other people's story too? I guess so, right? It's in public domain. Definitely. Yes. This is all public domain.

01:27:18.850 - 01:27:29.950

So, there's so many interviews we have out there. Just take a look at the different lives of all sorts of people. Yeah, I would like to to see it. And if it's something that I can use to inspire my

01:27:29.950 - 01:27:42.910

granddaughters. Okay. I have two granddaughters. I would like to-to use that because, you know, after all, they-they look Asian. They are Asian.

01:27:44.620 - 01:27:50.230

Definitely, I understand. Okay. Well, then, thank you so much for your time today. I will stop our recording.