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My name is Nori Guthrie from the Woodson Research Center, Fond Library Race University. I am interviewing Bianca de Leon. Today is December 1st 2017. This is part of the Houston Folk Music Archive Oral History project. Can you tell me about your early life? Um, I was

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born in Corpus Christi, Texas and then when I was about six and we moved to Houston, my family moved to Houston. We lived at a, um, a little in unincorporated area called Millville, outside of Corpus Christi. That was, they didn't even have a stop sign. I

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think they had a handwritten sign saying there were like 100 and 20 people in town, most of the relatives. And so, uh, we lived there and moved to Houston. And, uh, I know, you know, I, uh, played, had a little xylophone and before I could crawl,

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you know, I remember crawling down the hallway with one mallet and a little xylophone and I learned all the nursery rhymes on it and I couldn't even talk yet. And I thought that it was on the phone and then I sat in the chair and listened

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to the radio in my ear and listen to Patsy Klein and Elvis Presley and of the old greats. And I, and I still know some of those songs I memorized them there and I still know some of them. So it's, you know, always been a passion

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of my life since I was born. So, you were drawn to music in that way. When did you first start to play the guitar? Uh, I played drums in junior high and I played in the symphony and then I left home at, at, uh, 15 and,

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and I couldn't take drums. You can't just play drums on the street. So I took up guitar. Um, so do you wanna talk a little bit about what, what happened after you left home? I, I was, um, you know, I wanted to go to college and

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so I got a job downtown because we lived out in the suburbs and there weren't any jobs out there. And so I was trying to commute two hours each way to suburban schools because my parents weren't speaking to me. So they wouldn't sign papers for me

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to transfer to downtown. So I'd get up like five in the morning and go out to school then and then go from there to my job in downtown and then get home about midnight. We get up at six and try and sleep and study on the

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bus there. And eventually I got really sick. And so, and I didn't, didn't come to work, the doctor said you would call my, my job but they didn't. So I got fired downhill after that. So then what, what happened next, um, was in a, um, started

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getting into drugs and dealing drugs and, and then, uh, hi to, to, uh, Chicago and then to California ended up living in California for a while and hanging out with motor and playing guitar on the street in the hate Ashbury did that end up um hanging

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out with those people and then also just um King did that help improve your craft. Yeah. And uh you know, the more you play the better, you know, the first guitar I had was, had a real high set neck and so my fingers were bleeding and

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I was really determined to do it anyway. And then someone said, you know, if you get a good guitar with strings lower to the neck, you won't have that problem. I went really. So then I managed somehow to get a little better guitar and that was

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much better. How long were you in California? Um The first time I moved there, I lived in, in L A. Well, I hitchhiked from San Francisco. I actually, I caught a ride with Charlie Manson amazingly enough and spent a week with him and a couple of

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his followers and then I broke away, tried to hit me, tried to punch me out and I, and I got away from him and hitchhiked down to, uh, the, uh Orange County Pop Festival and I met up with the people that had the light show there

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and they put, you know, put me up and, and then they found me an apartment to live in. I was house sitting actually for the, uh, bass player of, of the um, um, second, well, FF base player Jefferson, Jefferson Airplane. Yes, thank you. So, that was,

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that was a pretty good game and, and then there was a big earthquake and, and I decided to get out of there and hitchhike back to Texas back to Houston. So then what happened when you came back to Houston? Then what did you do? What happened?

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Um, I started dealing drugs again and eventually got busted and, and, uh, so it, when I was 17, you know, so the federal government decided I was pretty smart. So they sent me to college. I went to Saint Thomas, studied classical guitar with under Jan Cole.

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She was great. So my, my class consisted of drinking wine at her house and playing guitar, sing a song. You like, get drunk, drink wine and have a great time. So, playing classical guitar was that, um, it seemed like that was, that's kind of a big

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departure from what you would have been, how you would have been playing before. Right. Well, I was, I was doing a lot of finger picking already and I thought, well, this is something, you know, it's music. I really liked it. I actually tried playing the upright

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bass first and I decided I was miserable at it. So I gave that up and, and I went to classical guitar and, and I did learn a lot, a lot of technique stuff that I still use. And, and then at one point she asked me to,

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uh, if I would go on the road with her because she could play, but she couldn't sing and I could do both. So I could back her up and sing. And I thought, you know, I could do that or I could drop out and join the

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rock and roll band. So I didn't let her, can you talk about that band? You know, we, we didn't have it for very long. But, uh, it was a regular band. We had Big Twin Marshall Stacks and everything and I screamed out, uh, Locomotive Breath and

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Bell Butter Blues and, you know, all the old classics. And, uh, I remember, I think my ears were permanently damaged from that, so loud. And so I think it was, our first gig was a high school prom and I was like younger than anybody there, you

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know. So, where did you, um, how long was the band together? Uh, I don't, they're not very long. I think I went solo after that. Ok. Yeah, I didn't like dogs though. It was so loud and painfully loud and they don't want to turn it down

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and like, so I just went solo after that. Where, um, where were you playing when you started playing solo all over Houston toward the coast Galveston, Austin. I played, uh, deep of cabaret and Austin and some other places I don't remember the names of, and I

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played Hooli hands and gentlemen jeans and, um, I don't remember all the names of the places, you know, I don't even remember where I played last year. Do you remember? Um, a frequent question that I ask of people is for them to remember what the spaces

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look like. Um, the reason being is that people are able to kind of fill in the, um, each person can add something a little bit different. And so, uh, overall picture of the place can be, can exist because many times we don't end up getting photographs

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inside the music venues. Are there any that you remember playing here and kind of the spaces? Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I did play the Old Quarter and I have a photo of Rx Bill on stage at the old quarter and I had some letters from him, um,

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that he wrote before he opened the quarter. I knew him but when he was, uh, working as a, uh, a crane operator to save up the money to open the place. Interesting. And it was a brick inside a little tiny place, kind of a long narrow

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place. I think it's a lost law office. Now. And, uh, so there was like, we walk in the front door and stage was on the left little tiny stage and then bars at the end bathroom behind that. And then upstairs where there were, uh, pool tables,

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cold pool tables. I, I remember one night I passed out on the pool table and they locked me in and I woke up in the morning in the old quarter of the good old days. Did you, um, did you prefer the old quarter to other places

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like Sand Mountain? And? Yeah, yeah, I, I old quarter had a lot more soul than Sand Mountain and a, a actually a lot of people like Mrs Kerrick that owns Sand Mountain, but I played it one time with me and my bass player. And, uh, you

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know, I, I had a, you know, her manager had booked me for X amount of dollars and then when I finished playing, I went over to her to get paid and she said, well, my, my manager agreed to that, but I didn't refuse to pay me.

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And I was real, I was so pissed. So I told my bass player, I said, I'll, you know, I'll pay you later, but just, you might want to leave right now because they helped me. She is gonna hit the fan. So I, I, uh, got back

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up on stage and I announced to everyone that the management was refusing to pay me. And there was a cover charge on the door and I counted it. Somebody told me once when I was a kid to always count your number of people in the audience.

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So, you know, if they've made enough money to pay you. So I did and they had no money because they just didn't want to do it, you know. So then I went into the back room and, and I cleared the whole building out and I went

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out the back door as the cops came in the front. Uh, um, you also played at Hula Hands. Um, what was, uh, what was that place like? It was great. They really treated me well there, they had a nice stage, um, good sound system. They fed

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me, got drinks there. I played there like, every day for a year. I was the house band. Oh, wow. Um, what was the interior like? Um, look in the front door. Um, there was seating there and then at the end of it there was a, uh,

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where you order food and good food and then to the right was a music room and more seating for food and people that wanted to hang out and have drinks and watch music. Yeah. So it's a really nice room. They treated me well. It's a great

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place right on, uh, on West Timer. Just, uh, just, I guess it is. Ok. Did, what kind of food did they serve? I think it was just like a burger joint. I don't remember. Ok. Well, that must have been really, um, great in the beginning for,

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in your career to be able to play there for a year. Right. Yeah, I played there every day for a year and, and I also played a lunch at some place, um, like some juice bar. I forget what it was called. Natural Juice or something. I

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did a lunch set there and I did lunch sets, some other places. So I played every single day and I, I make pretty good money. They actually, they paid really well, you know, you know, they don't pay anything for music now in Texas. But did you,

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did you end up playing at some of the, like at the steak places also? Oh, yeah, I played, you name it. I played everywhere. You know, I, I played every day at Hoos for a year and then decided that was, you know, that it was my,

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my tenure was up. So, but I would still play there sometimes. And then I played, you know, steakhouses, you name it everywhere, all across town. And Houston, Austin Galveston, La Porte, some steakhouse in the port. Ok. Yeah, I've always, I've, I've heard made sense that those

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are pretty lucrative. You have gigs since you would get fed. Yeah, it paid well. You know, it got good money. Lots of food. Um, so I assume around this time is when you met, um, town San San. Um, can you talk about that relationship? Uh, I

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actually met him when I was about 15 when I first left home. And, uh, as soon as I could remember, I think I sold him drugs. You know, it was just, like, weird and we knew some of the same people. So I met him through there

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in, uh, in, uh, when I came back from California, then I saw him again. I, when I first met him, he was going to law school in, in Houston and it was, it was pretty straight and he was married and, and uh, when I came back,

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um, he was married and his wife was pregnant, but they were talking about splitting up and then, uh, which they did after she had the kid, which was uh JT and he used to come by and visit and bring JT when he was like a little

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toddler. And so, um, in your biography, you, you talked about, um, like going to the Gesture Lounge and kind of seeing him change as a performer. Um, there aren't very many, well, a, there aren't a lot of people that remember the jester lounge. So, anything that

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you remember about that place is awesome. Um And also how did you kind of see him change there? Well, I, I didn't go to the store, I lived near there but I didn't go there but, but I knew that he started playing there. Ok, that's when

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he started out and then when I first saw him play, I think it was at the family hand downtown, which is, you know, really nice kind of hippie, hippie restaurant. Had a little stage over on the side. I played there a lot too. I've forgotten about

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that. Yeah, I played there too. And, uh, so when I first saw him he was playing old folk songs, like the record of 97 and ballad of Ira Hayes and all the old classic folk songs. And he hadn't written anything at that point. And I think,

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I think, uh, the first one he wrote was Waiting Around to die. And he wrote that right about the time I got Busted in a was, uh, they sent it to me like three years and there were a lot of similarities within, in the song, you

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know, in a, in a, I was in a federal halfway house. They got Bested for smuggling, you know. So I always thought that he probably wrote that for me. I didn't, I didn't ask him, but I know he did write other songs for me that he

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told me he wrote for me. So I, I was kind of assumed I don't want to ask you, right? What was it like to kind of feel like you were um amused for songs? Um I didn't feel, I didn't feel like that. I just felt like

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we had this connection, you know, and I wrote songs about him. He wrote songs about me. You know, it didn't occur to me at the time. Of course, now it does. So, was this about the time that you started to write your own music? Yeah. Yeah.

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When you started writing and I thought, well, I could do that. And so what did, um, how did you start working on that process? Did it just kind of, you just start to kind of do it one day or did you kind of look at other

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people's songs, kind of get inspiration of how to do it or kind of study the craft or? Well, um, the first song I ever wrote, I was about 10 years old and I wrote, I remember walking around outside singing a song that had made up in

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my head and I thought, oh, that's like being a songwriter, I could do that, you know. And I thought, yeah, that's what I want to grow up to be, you know, and I was already playing music, you know, playing drums in the band and in, and

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so I thought, you know, I could, I could do that. That's something I could, I would like, you know, be a writer and a songwriter. And, and so when, then, when I left home it was kind of a natural progression and then tried writing, you know,

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probably a dozen songs that were horrible. It's really bad. I knew they were bad and, you know, tore them up, throw them out, you know, and then I was with towns and even over, um, they, we were staying in a friend's apartment downtown and I woke

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up in the middle of the night and felt this compulsion to write this song. So I left him sleeping there and I went over to my house. It was about two blocks away and I wrote this song called San Antonio Express. Would you like to play

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that song? Um, sure I can play that song. So it was the first keeper. And, and it's still, I think it's still a decent song every once in a while I'll play it in the morning with the Lonely Deep San Antonio Express is moving. Um It's

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not the first time time. We'll be right on this pathway together. Each one going alone with your book songs and your guitar instrument. Yeah. It's just the 10 smile you give me in the air hours when I'm asking you want to with your guitar. You name

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Sarah? Certainly. Hi Mrs De. But it's not the silence that's between us or the love. It's a see inside me at the words that you want. Say you can. If I do the sun, I live on, I don't, it's just the dew drops of the morning

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blowing in your to make me ask want to give. Nice. Thank you. Is there a story behind that song? Well, after, uh, yeah, part of it is, is is trying to play fiddle in. It was like the worst, you can possibly imagine. It was just horrible.

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Screeching. Oh God, it was painful. And so that's where the fiddle part comes into there. And, um, I think it was kind of the, neither one of us were ready to settle down at that point. I mean, he had been settled down and it didn't work

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out for him and I wasn't ready to settle down at all so that we had this connection, you know, that always pulled us together. You know, he would go out with other women, take up with other women, but he always came back to me, you know,

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up until he died, you know, I knew all of his wives. Mhm. In the 19 seventies you lived on and off between Houston, Nashville and California, right? Can you talk about that period in your life? Well, I've, uh, been kind of commuting between, uh, Houston and,

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and Nashville and I had a place in both places and then eventually I, um, well, when II, I would go up to Nashville and, uh, hang out there all it was called the, the, uh, Texas, Texas. Uh, I think there was a word that they used

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for it and it takes this contingency and, and guy and, and Guy Clark was up there, Steve Earl Rodney Crowe. Um, so, so many musicians just moved up up there up in En Masse and most of them all stayed in this big house in Hillsboro Village.

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And, uh, Rodney had this little, uh, house a few blocks away from there and, and we had, uh, collect Coke bottles in the morning so we could get enough wine to drink in the evening. And, uh, I walked over to his house one morning because we

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were supposed to go collecting that morning. And, uh, and he, and he opened the door and I said, oh, come on, you know, we just me and, uh, with this great song, come listen to this and, uh, he played me leaving Louisiana in the broad daylight

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and I thought that like, that's a great song. Um, what was it like living amongst them? Um, you know, did you, did it influence your own writing? Did you, did you just kind of like the camaraderie or, um, all the above, all the above? I mean,

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I, I have an entirely different style than, than any of them pretty much. Well, except towns, I guess is probably the closest, you know, because he was closest to me. So I guess it all, you know, it wasn't intentional but it just kind of rubbed off

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from being around it. You know, it wasn't like I said, oh, I want to write like that. But, but you just kind of by, you know, absorb by osmosis. Um, were you, were you there also around 75 when they did the, when they started recording the

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documentary. Yeah, I was there but I was, you know, traveling a lot then, you know, it was back and forth between Houston and, you know, Austin Galveston. Was that grilling kind of doing that, doing all that travel or did you enjoy it? Uh, uh, both, you

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know, it was pretty grueling. I had a little sports car, a little two seater sports car and I took out the passenger seat so I could just sleep on my clothes on the passenger side. So everything I owned would fit in that car and it didn't

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have a trunk. It just had a space behind the seat where he shoved stuff back in there. So I shoved my guitar back in there and then pack some stuff around that and then, and then with the seat out, I could put my clothes there and

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then sleep on them. So give me a little cushion as a woman. How did, did you feel safe? Yeah, I was, I was pretty fearless then. But, but, uh, one time I was just, uh, just west of Little Rock and I, I was really tired. I

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think I left after a gig at the two in the morning. By the time I got there, it was, it was, um, I, I don't remember what time I left but I got there. It was dark, middle of the night and, uh, I counted on pulling

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into this roadside park that I usually slept in halfway and they had a barricade up for construction or something. So I just drove around the barricades of course, and went in, in a park and they had my dog with me. So I fell asleep with my

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head against the steering wheel immediately, just pull out. And now I heard my dog growling and then she started growling louder and louder and then she started like low barking and I looked up and there was a guy at the, at the hood of, you know,

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into the hood of my car bent over like this with a, you know, something like a gun or something shiny metallic in his hand, you know, and, and, uh, so then my dog started barking furiously and the guy jumped up and ran off and got in

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his car and left. And so, you know, I fired up my car and got on the highway and I was like, God, please don't let me pass him, you know, I don't know which way you went. I go right now. I just, I guess I would

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feel like if I was, I would sometimes be nervous now, which is not the seventies traveling by myself. Um, so much so. No, it's, it's interesting to know that, but that, that you were in a sense that you felt pretty safe that you're able to take

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care of yourself. I had a good dog. Um, um, you also spent some of that time in, uh, in the seventies in California. What were you doing there? In the, in the seventies in California? Um, when I first moved out, I've been, um, I was in

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Nashville in, I've been living with a guy Clark's guitar player and, and he, he dissed me for some beautiful young blonde and I went back to Houston for a while and then ended up, um, you know, I, I was friends with Fred Co in Nashville and

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he was going out to, uh California. He was gonna record in the studio and go out to California and, and, uh, so was I with the OHS music for a potential record deal. And so he went out first and I went out and my car broke

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down out there. So I ended up living there, didn't, I just didn't come back. And so when I left Nashville though, I went back out Clark's house and I said, you know, Willie and I have split up. So I'm, I'm leaving town and he says, where

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are you going? And I said, I don't know, I'm just leaving. He said, you're not going home. And I said, no. Yeah. So I went out to California and I guess that's, you know, I don't know this, I never asked God, but I presume that he

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came up with that song right after that. She ain't going nowhere. She's just leaving. And I remember having that conversation. So I think that's where that came from. I wouldn't swear to her. I had a band out in California too. You had a band out in

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California? Yeah. Can you tell me more about that? Uh, I had, I had a band at first I had, um, a band called The Mud Flaps. And then, and then, uh, we reformed and I had a band called, uh, Five and Diers and we played like

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a, um, there's something, something's Country Palace. I forget the name of it. Now. It was a real nice gig. It's a big dance hall place. It was fun. I actually just, when I was going through all my documents, I just ran across an old, uh, reel

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to reel from there. Oh, wow. So, that, that would be cool. Yeah. Yeah. To digitize. Cool. Um, so then what, what did you kind of do next in California? Since you were, you now had just decided to kind of settle down, I guess a little bit.

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Yeah, a little bit. Uh, in the first year I went out there, uh, I lost eight good friends, you know, from drug deals going bad, you know, shot, you know, murdered all kinds of stuff, you know. And I thought, you know, it might be time to

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straighten up my life a little bit, you know, get, get myself sober and, and straighten up, you know, find a, a better class of people that aren't going to die. I know. And it took me a long time. To, to go through that, you know, I

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had one group of friends and then I'd find another group that was slightly straighter and then I'd, I'd outgrow them and go into another group and, and kind of work my way up to people that didn't drink or drug at all. So, it took me a

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long time and so I had different businesses and started several different businesses while I was going through that process. And I, and then I moved back to Austin and, and, you know, had a whole different group of people, then they were all built straight. So it

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worked out pretty well. I survived. What were some of the businesses that you owned in California? I had, um, I had like a land development company. So I, I bought a piece of land in a, it for, it was uh, 10 acres and, uh, for a

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while I, uh, got a job to pay for it and, and I borrowed the money for the down payment, got a job at a motorcycle shop as a, as a motorcycle mechanic and slept in my car on the property or my truck. I step in my

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truck and then saved up enough money to buy a 22 ft trailer and then lived out in that for a while. And then, and eventually I was able to log off the property and subdivide it and, and make enough money to buy another bigger and better

00:26:16.109 - 00:26:36.119

place. That actually had a house. It's always good. And so what was the, what's the time frame that we're talking about right now? It's like, when did you originally arrive in California? And then when did you, uh, twice? I was in California once, um, in the,

00:26:36.130 - 00:26:57.979

I think it was maybe 69 for the, for the pop festival. And then I went back to Texas and then, and then, um, moved to Nashville and then moved from Nashville back to California. So, your time in California was maybe 70 in the eighties? Yeah. Yeah.

00:26:58.300 - 00:27:18.359

Ok. Because I have, um, from what I get, um, let's see. Oh, I actually have another kind of question for us to cover even though it's kind of out of, uh, out of order. Um, you've mentioned, um, kind of your friendship with a guy and Susannah

00:27:18.369 - 00:27:35.849

Clark. Can you talk more about your experiences with them? Um, well, I knew him in Houston. I, I remember when guy first came into town he was working at a TV station, I think. And, and, uh, he was making guitars, building guitars and, uh, he worked

00:27:35.859 - 00:27:49.339

on a couple of my guitars that I still have tried to trade me one of my guitars for one for his, his regular guitar, but I still have that guitar. Yeah, he, he loved that guitar. He really wanted it and he worked on it for a

00:27:49.349 - 00:28:04.229

couple of months, finally gave it up and then, um, towns called me. I was at the old quarter and towns called me and asked me if I would go to Nashville. So he, uh, gave, sent me a ticket, which I still have and I flew me

00:28:04.239 - 00:28:21.540

out to Nashville and I stayed with him and a guy and Susannah. And so what, um, see, how long, how long did you end up kind of staying with them? I was there for about a week, about a week. Ok. Yeah. When, when I was there,

00:28:21.550 - 00:28:31.160

um, wrote that song, if I needed to, I think he had started writing it before I got there. And then I think he wrote the 1st, 1st. And then when I got there, he sat down in front of me on the couch and I was sitting

00:28:31.170 - 00:28:42.869

next to him on a table like this and, and, uh, when they started, you know, he wrote the rest of the song, he, he sat down and he said I working on the song now that you're here, I can finish it. You know what if I

00:28:42.880 - 00:28:57.599

needed you? And then Luke and Lil were, the parakeets were a guy, Susannah's parakeets in the corner. But after we left and Lil died and it turned out that she was a female and the male. So, um, and then is that thing when you went to

00:28:57.609 - 00:29:15.030

live with, um, the guitar player or that you were then living with that was, uh, no, I live with a guitar player before that. Ok. Ok. No, I'm sorry, it was after that. Ok. It was after that. And so you, how long did you end up

00:29:15.040 - 00:29:35.630

staying in Nashville, do you think? Right. Couldn't say that's ok. Yeah. Um, couple of years, I think. Oh, ok. All right. Yeah. And, and, um, that I was drinking a drug and a night there and, and, uh, so I went to play, went back to Houston

00:29:35.640 - 00:29:50.339

to play some gigs. And my, my, uh, roommate there was Louis Willis whose husband was the one that recorded, uh, towns live at the old quarter. And we were roommates. So I introduced her to her husband. You know, they're, they're still married and, uh, so I

00:29:50.349 - 00:29:59.390

went back to Houston played a few gigs and she called me up and, uh, we talked for quite a while and I said, well, it's gonna cost you a lot. We should hang up. And she said, no, it's not. I'm in Houston. So it's all your

00:29:59.400 - 00:30:17.270

stuff. I moved you back. I said, ok, cool. I'll go get an apartment. Good move. And that's when he stayed in Houston for a little bit and then went ahead and then went back to Nashville and then back to, I think, to California. Ok. I know.

00:30:17.280 - 00:30:37.260

It seems weird that I'm trying to trace all the stuff I can't even keep track of it. No. No, I, yeah, I understand. Um, so then, um, what caused you then to move from California to Austin in 1989. Well, it, it was, uh, I was out

00:30:37.270 - 00:30:48.339

there when there was like the big mud slide. They had like, I think it was 7 ft of rain in one winter, 100 and 36 inches of rain that winter. And so there were mudslides and people were killed and right across me, the whole mountainside gave

00:30:48.349 - 00:31:01.290

away and it was too unstable to dig out the people. So they just went over and put little crosses on the slide. So that was part of my view. And then there was a big fire that was coming over the mountain, you know, mountain Ridge and

00:31:01.300 - 00:31:12.180

I was on an evacuation alert and they gave me 15 minutes, they said once we issue the mandatory alert, you'll have 15 minutes to get out. So I sat there with my guitar and one bag and my guitar on the lease my dog on the leash

00:31:12.189 - 00:31:27.780

and, and watched the fire come up over the ridge and I read by firelight ashes were falling all around me and, and then there was the 89 earthquake and I thought, ok, that's it. I was in a building that came down. It was really scary. So

00:31:27.790 - 00:31:38.369

I had a lot of damage to my house. So I fixed it, fixed that the house up and then I got out and moved back to Austin because it's central like a tour from there because in California, you know, they either tour up and down the

00:31:38.380 - 00:31:51.569

coast or, you know, or you fly somewhere else, you know, there's not really any driving across the desert. So I thought Austin has got a nice music scene and Ann Richards was the governor then. So I thought, how cool is that? You know, and then I

00:31:51.579 - 00:32:13.390

moved back and then they booted her out, pissed me off. So, what did, um, so then you, you moved to Austin, you were touring from there using it as kind of your bases and then, um, you then went on to record your first album, Outlaws and

00:32:13.400 - 00:32:30.449

Lovers. Can you talk about that? Uh, a lot of those songs I've written, you know, a long time before, you know, because Santonio expresses on that and, um, and then I had a few new songs and so I felt like it was time to start getting

00:32:30.459 - 00:32:44.069

more serious about it, you know, I moved back to Austin to do that. So, and in studio timing, it was cheaper than a bit cheaper. So I recorded the album, released it in Europe and it did really well and uh I got lots of airplay and

00:32:44.079 - 00:32:54.959

press and, and then, but nobody called me for gigs. So I thought, you know, what's up, what's up with that? You know. So I decided I would go over. Some friends of mine were playing at a festival in Holland. So I said, well, I would go

00:32:54.969 - 00:33:05.569

over it and hang out backstage with him and see what happened. So I walked in to the backstage area and there was a guy with, with, uh, a DJ with a t-shirt on, from a radio station. I knew he was giving me a lot of airplay.

00:33:05.579 - 00:33:18.260

So I walked up and introduced myself and he said, you, Deon. Really? Oh my God. I can't believe you're here. And he took me around, he introduced me to all these people. And then like that, that morning, uh they, they put me in a car with

00:33:18.270 - 00:33:35.569

a fiddle player and drove me around hollering and I was on tour just like that. Boom, I slept, we rehearsed in the, in the car on the way to the gig. How is that difference? Um Touring around in Europe rather than in, in the US? Well,

00:33:35.579 - 00:33:48.810

that's where I started really touring. You know, I've been playing gigs in California up and down the coast, but not really, you know, major touring. And, but once I started that in, you know, you know, that, that night turning into a, you know, a lot of

00:33:48.819 - 00:34:04.750

touring in Europe. So I started going over twice a year for two months at a time each. And then that was my main touring. And then I go up to Chicago sometimes and tour around Texas a little. What, um, what countries do you hit when you

00:34:04.760 - 00:34:30.010

are abroad? Um All of Europe pretty much. Do you get to Western? Do you go to Eastern Europe also? Um Holland Finland, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Scotland, France. What, what are the, how do the audiences differ from us audiences or? What's the difference? They're, they're great. They're

00:34:30.020 - 00:34:43.310

very attentive and usually they speak English and if you get out of some of the smaller towns, they might not. But uh, they speak English and in the smaller towns where they don't speak English, I always have the lyrics on my albums in the civic artwork.

00:34:43.330 - 00:34:58.729

So, so they can read the, the lyrics and they'll have like, one designated translator for the group and, and they'll, like, read the lyrics as I'm singing. So everybody else understands what I'm saying. They're very attentive, very literary. So that's, and, and, you know, you're lucky

00:34:58.739 - 00:35:15.929

if you're not just background music in the US. No, that's, I mean, that's really, that's very interesting. So, it, it's something that you enjoy a lot more of going over there to play. Yeah. Um, yeah, they're, they're more appreciative and they have much better transportation. I,

00:35:15.939 - 00:35:26.760

I just got back from, from Howland, Germany. I was on a train where it goes 200 miles an hour across Germany, you know, went across the whole country in two hours. So it was great. It was dead quiet. You know, you sit there in the club

00:35:26.770 - 00:35:43.149

car having cocktail and beverage, you know what in the world just fly by and it was like, it's great. It's cheap and they're all on time every time. Oh, wow. Yeah. No, that's, it's interesting that, yeah, I, I, I've heard some other people kind of talk

00:35:43.159 - 00:35:58.479

about different experiences with audiences and sometimes there'll be a lot of line dancers and that's kind of like a certain experience. And then other times you'll have, you know, very attentive audiences. Have you experienced also the line dancers? Yeah. I played, I played a, a country

00:35:58.489 - 00:36:09.739

western festival once where there were lots of line dancers and stuff. It was kind of bizarre and, and, uh, they were all doing this line dance thing and I'd never seen it before and, and, uh, they wouldn't believe me. They, they said you're from Texas and

00:36:09.750 - 00:36:19.919

you don't know how to line dance. You must not be from Texas. And I said, yeah, born and raised and, and, and so when we got off stage, I was with my file player. We got off stage and the next band came up, we went out

00:36:19.929 - 00:36:38.449

and started two stepping and they were looking like, what is that? I actually have a video of that that I, I brought, oh, cool. I don't think I'm on, I'm on stage but I'm, they don't have me out dancing, I think. Um, can you tell me

00:36:38.459 - 00:36:57.149

about your other albums? Oh, I did. I think the, um, let me see, I think the next one I did was, was live from hell, to Helsinki, which was, um, it ended up being a two day nightmare of a trip from, from, uh, Rotterdam. I think

00:36:57.159 - 00:37:11.280

I was in Rotterdam and, and, and trying to go to Helsinki in a, it took me two days to get there. I had no food, no sleep. And it was just a nightmare. I started out on two trains that broke down, got on a plane in

00:37:11.290 - 00:37:21.590

Belgium and, and as I got on the plane, they were, they were trying to shut the door and it wouldn't shut and they would fire up the engine and it would, I guess it would say that door not closed or something. And so they'd bring the

00:37:21.600 - 00:37:32.570

stairs back and pound on the door. So I was sitting in the seat right next to the door, you know, lucky as I am, you know, and then I pound on it, pound on it and then rolled away the stairs and the pilot would fire it

00:37:32.580 - 00:37:43.409

up and it, and it wouldn't, you know, so I did that for about an hour and a half. And then the pilot finally said, well, I think the doors finally shut, you think? You know, I have. So I stood up and said, can I sit on

00:37:43.419 - 00:37:58.459

somebody's lap in the back? Everybody just laughed and nobody offered. So we got into Heathrow and then we were really late. So then ran across the airport and I was starved by then. It was in the evening, we got across the airport and got in line

00:37:58.469 - 00:38:11.479

to get on the next plane and they announced that they were forcibly evicting an armed passenger, I guess, some terrorist or something. So, we waited there for several hours when they cleared the plane and I was hoping they got whatever bombers or whatever it was. And

00:38:11.489 - 00:38:25.899

then, so then we didn't, weren't able to fly into Stockholm. We flew in two hours north and they bused us into Stockholm. And I got on the, uh, went to get on the, the, uh uh train to go to the ferry and they, you know, I

00:38:25.909 - 00:38:38.550

got out of the cab of the bus and then they locked the door. So I'm sitting there and I realized I could freeze to death. It was really cold, you know. So, you know, flagged down a cab and ended up, you know, going to a coffee

00:38:38.560 - 00:38:49.919

shop until seven in the morning and got on the, had to borrow money because I, I had euros and dollars and only took runners and somebody loaned me the money to, you know, to get on the bus, to go to the ferry. And then the ferry

00:38:49.929 - 00:39:01.820

communications broke down, you know, so I couldn't tell him to come pick me up in the landed in Tuk Finland. And so then I finally got to Turku and, and, uh, the manager said we might as well take the train to Helsinki. And I got into

00:39:01.830 - 00:39:14.770

Helsinki and the manager's car broke down. So he showed up, you know, in a, in a, we had to take AAA bus to go to his house to get his wife's car and then got to the radio station. I thought it was gonna be 15 minutes,

00:39:14.780 - 00:39:26.169

but it ended up being an hour and a half interview and, and then all the, the uh power system between the music room and the studio room went out. So they had to send in this little guy as a runner, he'd like come in and whispered

00:39:26.179 - 00:39:37.120

to my fiddle player, ask me this question, you know, so he pretended he was the DJ. And then I can't slept or eating in two days. And I'm sitting on a stool and I thought, please don't let me fall off, you know. And I thought, well,

00:39:37.129 - 00:39:47.979

this, I can do, you know, I have control over this. So I thought I'm not gonna miss a note. So, you know, then they recorded it, of course. So when I got back to, to Austin, I finally played it and I thought that's a whole CD

00:39:47.989 - 00:40:00.040

right there, you know, so I put it out live to Hel Helsinki. And after I put it out, then someone in Europe said, so hell to Helsinki. Were you in hell, Norway? And I looked up on the map and sure enough, I was actually pretty close

00:40:00.050 - 00:40:24.330

to him. Um Which, which one? Uh what came out after that, uh did the uh the lung slow decline of Carmelita after that, uh which is the title cut also. And um most of that CD is about uh living in Sonora Mexico. And uh I, I

00:40:24.909 - 00:40:36.500

met this guy from Hermosillo through a friend of mine, a Colombian friend of mine in Santa Cruz. And he came up to visit her and they all had dinner at my house. And uh I, you know, I fell for this guy. So we ended up, started,

00:40:36.510 - 00:40:48.870

you know, going down to Hermosillo and seeing him and met his family and we became engaged and then his father died. And uh there was a huge big family feud feud and he just became a different person, you know, so I broke off the engagement but

00:40:48.879 - 00:41:03.090

I stayed in Hermosillo playing gigs down there and I had a booking agent and a guitar player, you know, a Spanish guitar player played with me. So, one of my gigs I was at uh at this whorehouse. It is one of the best playing gigs in

00:41:03.100 - 00:41:17.330

playing gigs in town there. And, you know, I had a, a booking agent with me and my guitar player. So it was, felt very safe in a, in a nice stage, you know, so I was playing one time and, and the, the club Boer came over

00:41:17.340 - 00:41:28.040

and put a box on the end of the stage. I said, when you're finished with your set come help us load out the liquor is the Federal rallies are coming. So I finished my set and walked over with the box and he put all lots of

00:41:28.050 - 00:41:40.050

whiskey in it and we took it to the kind of line van at the door, loaded everything up and all the prostitutes left and all the Johns left and we, we took the van and park, you know, pull up to the stop sign, burned the joint

00:41:40.060 - 00:41:49.149

and then I watch the rear views. All the federal came in through the open door and went into the place. And then 15 minutes later, they all left and went back down the street and loaded out all the liquor and all the Johns came back and

00:41:49.159 - 00:42:10.000

all the prostitutes came back and I played another set. Um, would you like to play a song from that album? Yeah, on your guitar right there. Those um posted, oh, that was from a, um, a gig I played last night. These are the, um, we were

00:42:10.010 - 00:42:20.879

only doing like eight songwriter of the round. So we're only playing eight songs. So I have like 50 or 60 songs on my list. And so I wanted to like pick out the ones that I thought would be more likely for me to, I wanna play.

00:42:21.790 - 00:42:39.889

I don't need this anymore actually, because otherwise I could spend a lot of time saying, you know, which songs that, you know, it'd be hard to make up my mind. So this, um, the house that I played at was, was, um, painted brown inside. But you

00:42:39.899 - 00:42:51.770

could tell at one time it, it was like a regular warehouse and it was painted white. So there, there was a stage in one corner and then the bar over here and then, and then beyond that, where some, a hallway with the rest of it was

00:42:51.780 - 00:43:04.020

right at the start of the hallway and then the hallway went back to rooms and stuff, I guess. And I didn't get went that far, but right near the restroom, there were, there were uh names scrawled into the paint and, and you could, you could see

00:43:04.030 - 00:43:18.229

where they scroll the, the names in the white paint shown out in the, in the dark, you know, like Manuel Cli. And so that's kind of where the, the title, that's where the song originated. And then it was from a lot of other things that happened

00:43:18.239 - 00:43:56.000

there and some other places she was born in reported down some 21 years ago to a black eyed spin disputing. Some called Santon Rose with the tattoo was sold and they, it was a long slow decline. It was a long slow decline. The car she was

00:43:56.010 - 00:44:27.350

working in a bar in my will. He was splashing money and cooking. Just fresh child of Jake. She kissed the virgin. Think what the best she was. Yeah, it was a long, so declined. It was a long slow decline. You a shotgun in a 69 Chevy.

00:44:28.959 - 00:44:58.790

We, they were brown and try and make a deal but the bullets flew, the two men fell and that was all she was. It was a long no decline. The car, it was a long slow decline to car. They cross that border of flying towards, they

00:44:58.800 - 00:45:31.560

stop for gas and sell the deal and just on down the way a bottle and you, as he drove up in, it was a long, slow decline. The car, it was a long, slow decline. Sit down, work down or something. Yeah, just trying to stay out

00:45:31.570 - 00:46:02.010

of jail. She on the virgin, the beco just one last time was a lot. Already climbed the car of my head. It was a long slow decline. The government of the Spirit goes down and like I saw her name, scratch them in the heart and no

00:46:02.020 - 00:46:39.020

one said it to you one, it was a long, so declined to come. It was a long slow decline. Car here. It was a long, slow decline. Um Let's see. Um Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit more about your other albums? There are

00:46:39.030 - 00:46:55.010

two, it's two more that come after Carmelita. Um Yeah, I have one called Love Guns and Money. That's that I, I released last year. That's a good CD and I, and I just finished another one that will be called Dangerous Endeavor. I, I'm pretty excited about

00:46:55.020 - 00:47:13.510

it. I've been trying to label shop it, but I've gotten 23 rejections so far. But Catcher In the Rye was rejected 29 times. So I feel like I've only got 27 more to go. Yeah. Have you, um, the other albums that you had? Did you, did

00:47:13.520 - 00:47:27.889

you find labels overseas for those? Well, I almost signed with one company over there, of course, on records. But they, um, they wanted to use, you know, instead of using all the songs that I already had for an album, they wanted to use some of those

00:47:27.899 - 00:47:42.179

and a lot of ones that are already released and I thought that was a really bad idea and they wouldn't back down off of it. So we never came to an agreement. So, other than that I've been labeled this, uh, do you, do you find that

00:47:42.189 - 00:47:56.360

there's some freedom in that or? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, because I had the freedom to turn them down for one thing because I thought it was a really stupid idea of releasing songs that I've already released, you know. So, um, yeah, and then, and I

00:47:56.370 - 00:48:19.360

work harder than probably any, any label would anyway. So, yeah. Um, the, the current one, when do you expect that one to come out? Well, it's, it's still, I, I have those 27 more to go. How does that, how does that work for, um, submitting your

00:48:19.370 - 00:48:34.659

work to a label? Do you just send them the CD with a letter? How, how does that work? Well, uh, um, I've been going off connections because otherwise they just, you know, raile it. Ok. You know, so I've had a couple of connections that, that looked

00:48:34.669 - 00:48:46.760

very promising but didn't work out and, and I've still got one label in Houston that, uh, I just talked to this morning. They're gonna listen to it. I sent him a link, you know, to a dropbox with the CD. So they're gonna give it a listen

00:48:46.770 - 00:49:02.850

and then I know them, they've heard me play before and they've expressed an interest before. Ok. So, and, and then there's another label. Um, somebody is, you know, giving me a connection for. So, you know, we'll see what happens. I figure I'll give it another six

00:49:02.860 - 00:49:16.219

or eight months or something and then release it myself. If nothing comes of it. Ok? For a long time, I came up with this alter ego because so that I could call it and not be myself because some people don't want to turn you down and

00:49:16.229 - 00:49:30.679

say no, your music sucks, you know, not appropriate for you, you know. So I created this alter ego for Tina White. So his friend of mine, Germany says, Tina White sounds like a prostitute. So I'd call up and I would say hi. This is Tina White.

00:49:30.689 - 00:49:41.550

I'm representing Bianca de Leon. I was wondering if she would be appropriate for your venue, maybe you could find a spot for her to play there, you know, and, like, alter my voice a little bit. But it would only work once and then I'd have to

00:49:41.560 - 00:49:53.560

call back and be me and, you know, and, uh, and they say, well, you know, Tina always makes the first cold call and then I, I always do the follow up stuff because otherwise people were saying you and Tina sound so much alike. And then I

00:49:53.570 - 00:50:11.729

had to say, well, you know, we're both from Texas. When did, when did you invent Tina? Oh, when I first started touring, OK. And then I did an interview one time and people, people, the guy said, poor guy, he said, so I've been talking with Tina.

00:50:11.739 - 00:50:21.850

She seems very nice. You know, you're lucky to have her representing you and, and I say, yeah, you know, so then I started making up these stories and said, well, you know, I don't know if you know about Tina, but, you know, she used to hang

00:50:21.860 - 00:50:40.850

out with Mick. She was really wild back in the day. You know, there were some stories about her and, and I kept waiting for it. I started Googling Tina to see if she came out. People are gonna start like writing reviews on TV. But then I

00:50:40.860 - 00:50:58.500

finally decided that I've gone long enough. So now I just, and, and I, I'm more established now so I can just call people and it seems to be working out. So it's really interesting to create an alter ego. I mean, it's really smart because you have

00:50:58.510 - 00:51:09.020

to work the system in any way that you can. Right. You know, because I was emailing people and then not getting responses and, you know, I didn't know if they just hadn't gotten the email if they weren't interested or they, or if I just needed to

00:51:09.030 - 00:51:20.189

press them further. you know, because they, they, and I figured if they didn't want to hire me, they didn't want to just say, yeah, you, so it worked out pretty good. But now I think I have enough of a reputation and people know who I am

00:51:20.199 - 00:51:39.399

know if I'm gonna work or not and don't hesitate to tell me, you know, it doesn't really fit in the we, a jazz venue or this or that, you know. You know, you, oh my God says that, um, you had a friendship with, um, David Rodriguez

00:51:39.409 - 00:51:56.010

that you had mentioned to me before. Um, what was he like? Well, as his mother even said he was a very difficult man. She said that at his funeral, she said, I know you're not supposed to speak badly of the dead. But, you know, say, well,

00:51:56.020 - 00:52:08.310

we all know that David was a very difficult man. So that's how the, the funeral service started out. And I said that to somebody that was going to the funeral with and they said, oh, you shouldn't speak badly of him. And I said, well, it's just

00:52:08.320 - 00:52:23.800

really the truth. Everyone knows that. So we got there and sure enough that's the way it started out. And he was very difficult. It was, it was a love hate because he was so brilliant, such a great songwriter, guitar player, singer and just brilliant, brilliant, you

00:52:23.810 - 00:52:39.270

know, blindingly brilliant guy, but just a little paranoid could be mean. He had a mean streak in him, you know, he could say some really vicious stuff. No. Um, he lived with me, I knew him in, uh, from Houston when I was a teenager. We knew

00:52:39.280 - 00:52:53.510

each other then and, um, he, you know, I knew him when I was seeing talents, you know, so he was kind of on the fringe of that and he came out to California to, with Vince Bell and De Franco and, uh, they came over to my

00:52:53.520 - 00:53:05.229

house and, and I was living in Santa Cruz and, and he, and Vince and he stayed at my house and then he wanted to, to stay with me that night and I said, well, aren't you with an, and he said, no, no, we're just toyed together.

00:53:05.540 - 00:53:16.129

So, so we stayed together in the morning. I, I, you know, I get up and an is gone, you know, she's just taking like one bag and left her clothes and stuff and, and gone. And I said, are you sure, you know, are you sure there

00:53:16.139 - 00:53:26.159

wasn't really something going on here? And I said, no, no, I don't know what happened to her. She's a little moody sometimes. And of course, I found out later that they were, you know, an item and I felt like an idiot. So I ran into, I

00:53:26.169 - 00:53:39.620

came back to Austin for South by Southwest and walked backstage at the Chicago house and it was a, so I walked up and apologized profusely and, and to send her a clothes to her, which I did. And then David walked in the room, he walked in

00:53:39.629 - 00:53:53.879

and looked at us and start to back it up out the door. So, yeah, he was, you know, that's the way David was. And they, and they showed up, he moved to Holland, moved to do and I think he moved to North Holland to some island

00:53:53.889 - 00:54:05.560

for a while. I was living with the dwarf there and they sent me some photos of one horse back there. I have lots of photos and letters from him and then he moved to door direct and he showed up at one of my gigs over there,

00:54:05.570 - 00:54:18.929

which is a major radio TV, show gig, you know, big concert hall kind of thing. It was a big deal. And uh went backstage in the green room, touched his way back and, and proceeded to drink all the alcohol there and got staggering drunk. And then

00:54:18.939 - 00:54:28.320

when I went on stage, he got in the back of the room and started like cat calling and he decided that wasn't good enough. So we walked up front and tripped over the monitor wire and unplugged the monitor. So they didn't have any monitors for the

00:54:28.330 - 00:54:45.469

whole show. And he sat on the front front row and would shout out things like play a good song. So Yahoo is difficult. Like, can you say that with a smile? We were still foods after that. It was like a love. Hey, it was like I

00:54:45.479 - 00:55:04.820

wanted to kill him and then I thought, you know, we have too much history together. Yeah. Um Let's see. Do you want to take a moment and play one of your neighbors songs? Yeah, I'll play the title. Cut up my New C CD which I'm, I'm

00:55:04.830 - 00:55:38.489

very excited about. Yeah. Head on down into no man's land. I won't see you. He had 50 grand in the back of my boots and a pistol down in space out here in the desert where the cold wind blows. Ain't no one. No. What went down

00:55:39.169 - 00:56:15.080

came up big Chuy. It was a danger. It was a dangerous and I left Mexico and everything behind re the last to go. Even for the border with the change of my name in the Texas. Settled in it down with an ear to the ground when

00:56:17.320 - 00:57:03.800

sometimes I wake you a cold, cold sweat with the drink. What you hear? It was a danger. It was a dangerous and it's been a few years since I crossed the border with the much nice man gonna settle down, gonna listen to the night boats with,

00:57:05.790 - 00:57:58.689

I'm never going back down south of the border and I'm never gonna tell him why. Like a rat snake buzzing in here the day is just a bit. It was a dangerous, it was a dangerous. And what's

00:57:58.699 - 00:58:14.830

the impetus for writing that song? Well, when, um, when I lived in Hermosillo, I started going out with this guy named Guillermo, who, who, uh, who was a cop and he had studied the school of the Americas, which is where they trained all the, like Manuel

00:58:14.840 - 00:58:25.060

Noriega and all the South American desperate, you know, and he, and he, so he went there and the more I got to know him, the more it was kind of a little odd, but he seemed nice enough. So he, he invited me to the beach one

00:58:25.070 - 00:58:38.750

day and he came by, I was staying at, um, a friend of a friend of mine name named, uh, uh Lu Lucci. And, and so he came by and, and, uh, picked me up to go to, to, uh, New Kino Beach. And so we're driving down

00:58:38.760 - 00:58:51.120

the highway and he's got a, this big king cab, white truck and, and cowboy boots and a hat on. We're driving on the beach and as we're going down the road, he points over off in the desert and says over there as well, the Colombians are

00:58:51.129 - 00:59:05.489

flying in the drugs. You want to go see. And I thought maybe some other time, why don't we just go on to the beach here? And I'm thinking I need to get out of here. I need to like leave Hermosillo now. You know, it was, and

00:59:05.500 - 00:59:18.199

there were undercurrents of like weird jokes, there was undercurrent of, of violence and weird stuff happening out in the desert out there. You know, I was hearing like rumors of this and that and I'm going, what's going on here. And that was right when the Colombians

00:59:18.209 - 00:59:29.939

first started, you know, bringing in drugs into Mexico and of course, that's developed into what the cartel is now down there. And so it was just starting to become dangerous. They were like finding bodies out in the desert and weird stuff. I didn't know exactly what

00:59:29.949 - 00:59:48.330

was going on there, but I thought, you know, it's time to get out of here. So that's, you know, that's part of where that comes from. So it seems like for many of your songs that you draw upon stories from your past. Um Why do you

00:59:48.340 - 01:00:13.379

do that? Um I'm a storyteller like Canterbury Tale is only different. Um Do you have, have you ever written some songs that maybe don't have as much of a personal connection that might be about other people? The Carmelita song does seem to be about kind of

01:00:13.389 - 01:00:29.340

somebody else more. But do you kind of just, do you enjoy drawing upon your personal life to write the music? Well, I, I've done so much weird stuff that people are always asking me about it. So I end up writing it. Ok. Oh, you got material

01:00:29.350 - 01:00:50.139

to use it, right. You know, I don't have to make it up. You've lived an incredibly adventurous life. Um See, I feel like we're, I feel like there's more that you could tell me about some things, but I don't know if there are like specific stories

01:00:50.149 - 01:01:05.719

that you want to tell that I can weave back in, feel free to ask. Um Let's see, as long as this doesn't go to like the police department or something, I'm good at, I don't know. No, I just like, um if there are like other like

01:01:05.729 - 01:01:24.080

specific stories that you feel like you want to tell about your interactions with other people or things that have happened to you that you feel like that we haven't talked about. Um I just want you to feel like, you know, when you walk away, you're like,

01:01:24.090 - 01:01:37.770

man, I wish I, I should have told her this one thing that I wanted to. I just wanna make sure that there's nothing like that right now. That's kind of, I'm sure there will be as soon as I stand up. Ok. All right. Well, we can

01:01:37.780 - 01:01:57.489

go to kind of like the last question. Um So looking back on your career and then on your life, what accomplishments mean the most to you. Um, my touring time in Europe, you know, I, I had, I had a blast doing it. I made money, made

01:01:57.500 - 01:02:09.409

friends. You know, it, it was really important for me. It was great. I did kind of ignore the US. So then when I, you know, I started, uh trying to, to, to the U they're going like, you know, we don't know who we are. That was

01:02:09.419 - 01:02:23.469

a little difficult but touring Europe was great fun. I, I always scheduled in time to go to the museums. You know, I've, I've uh seen the David and the Mona Lisa and, and uh the museum in Berlin, you know, the, the uh uh gates of, you

01:02:23.479 - 01:02:36.280

know, I've seen all the great museums. I went to the Van Gogh exhibit in Amsterdam. And by the time I got to the, to the uh where the last letters were from him when he cut off his ear and he painted the, the uh story nights

01:02:36.370 - 01:02:49.449

was the last in the exhibit. And by the time I got there, I, I cried, I, I saw all the, you know, read all the letters from his brother who was giving him monetary support, you know, and so every, every painting, every place he was, he

01:02:49.459 - 01:03:03.100

had these letters describing in a and I saw I went to this exhibit at the end of my tour over there. And he described almost every place that I played. There was a, a bridge that he painted and I played at the cafe right at the

01:03:03.110 - 01:03:15.459

bridge, you know, and, and as well on the way to one gig, uh near I was go past this windmill and that my driver pointed out, I said, oh, that windmill is in the van, you know, Van Gogh, painting if you go to the Van Gogh

01:03:15.469 - 01:03:27.530

Museum and you know, so they were all in and one of the letters said, uh to his brother said, painted yesterday in, in the, the dunes outside of Den Hog, you know, the, the Hague and I had just been walking on the dunes. I stayed at

01:03:27.540 - 01:03:39.290

someone's house and the dunes. I had been walking on the dunes with her the day before. So I felt this eerie connection with him. And by the time I got to the last painting I, I had identified with him so much. I, I, you know, like

01:03:39.300 - 01:03:54.219

I just cried. Yeah, it's really beautiful. And the other, I think highlight of my career was a couple of years ago. I, I got invited to play at Berkeley College of Music with Betty Sue and Lisa Gilkison. You know, they paid me well. I played, you

01:03:54.229 - 01:04:11.669

know, classes and student performance and public performance and they just had a great time there. They treat, they carried my guitar for him. He treated me like royalty. I thought I was hot shit for a while. 15 minutes anyway. Well, is, is there anything else that

01:04:11.679 - 01:04:32.330

you want to talk about? I can't do you thing off here? All right. Um So I want to thank you very much for coming out um for coming and talking. Um I really appreciate you taking the time. Well, thanks for thanks for inviting me out. Now.

01:04:32.340 - 01:04:42.889

I don't have to go through everything and just throw out all that stuff, you know. Yeah. I'm glad we don't, we don't want you to throw out anything. I keep looking at every time I go into my little storage area there, I keep thinking, oh, I

01:04:42.899 - 01:04:52.570

should get rid of all that stuff, you know. So got it just in time. I'm glad I'm glad they were able to give it at home. Yeah, me too. Thanks. Thanks for having me here.