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All right. So, today is Friday, March 31st, 2023. My name is Emily Ma, and I'm here with Bennie Flores Ansell for the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice. So, to start from the very beginning, could you tell us where and when you were born?

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Yes, I was born in Manila, Philippines, on January 5th, 1967, and I only lived there for six months, and my father relocated us to Connecticut. And how would you describe, like, your family household that you grew up in?

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So, my father was an architect, and my mother was a stay-at-home mom, and she was a Sunday painter, but she was also very interested in fashion. So, I think I get sort of a lot of my interest from that.

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And they were very design-oriented, and I think because my father was an architect, he thought about how things functioned a lot. When we would go on vacations, we would look at art, we would look at architecture. They both loved music very much,

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you know, and I think I have fond memories of them just pointing out beauty in the everyday. You know, one time we were driving, it was winter time, and there was, like, a hill. And this is just a weird memory I just thought of, that they saw just all the––sort of the–the red lights going up, and they thought, "Isn't

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that beautiful?" And I just sort of thought, "Wow." So, whenever I see that, I think of them, and I think of sort of moments like that, where they would do that, in terms of pointing things out from the everyday that are just beautiful, which probably attributed to me becoming an artist and seeing things a little bit

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differently. I also had seven brothers. I'm the seventh, and I'm the only girl. And it was, you know, as you could imagine with eight kids, it was a pretty loud household with lots of boys.

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My mom was an amazing cook, and we had dinner together every night, which was pretty fantastic. Wow, that sounds kind of chaotic, but also very fun. [BFA laughs] Were you the oldest out of them?

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I was the seventh. Oh, so––oh, the youngest. Yeah—well, no, there was–there was one—they tried one more time for another girl, and they got a boy. [EM: Oh!] So, I had six older brothers and one younger, yes.

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Oh, I see, I see. [BFA laughs] Do you have any, like, favorite memories with your siblings? I think I became a photographer probably because of my oldest brother, Ben. He took a photography class in high school,

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and I just remembered seeing him with his camera, and seeing the film, and him telling me about the process, how he would process it, and then how he would actually make his own prints, and then come back and show me. And I just sort of thought that that was a pretty powerful tool.

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So, I think that that kind of led me down the path of becoming a photographer, in seeing that at a young age. And my father was very much into cameras too, any of the new technologies that were out. He had an eight-millimeter camera, we have a lot of family films that are

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shot, and when I look at them now, I see how they were artistically shot, as far as his panning and his zooming, and, you know, I'm–I'm grateful for–for his love of photography too, my father, because we have a lot of amazing images from when I was younger.

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That's so cool that your family kind of shaped your artistic journey as well. Yes, definitely. And I understand you were just a baby at the time, so you probably don't remember much, but did your parents ever tell you any stories later about your family's immigration

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from the Philippines to Connecticut? You know, I think it's really interesting, you know, having six older brothers, one y—and my youngest brother was born here, so I have one brother that was actually "American," born in–born in the States.

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But I think we...I think it was hard. I think now that I'm an adult, I think they kind of didn't really tell us that, you know. I think they made some conscious decisions leaving the Philippines because of Marcos coming into law,

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and my father was the first of his siblings to leave. I think he sort of saw what was happening in the corruption and he wanted to leave that. And my father's uncle owned a movie theater in Manila. So, when he—since he was a young child, he sort of

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ingested the American culture, through movies and everything. So, I think he had this idealized notion of what it would be like to live here. I think that–that was very different, though, moving to Connecticut in, you know, the late 60s,

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you know, with civil rights still, you know, very much in bloom. And, you know, I think it–it was difficult. I think it was hard, and I think it was hard for my mother as well, because in the Philippines, she had a lot more help with seven children.

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And then when she moved here, she had no help. It was just her. And my dad was out, you know, trying to make a living for us, and I think–I think it was a very hard thing. My parents, when I was in college, did go back to the Philippines, and I asked

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them—and I'm glad I asked them this, I said, "Are you glad you came to the States after seeing your friends?" And they did comment that they felt like their lives were less stressful here than had they stayed in the Philippines, and that a lot of their friends look like

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they aged, you know, sort of more than they had, just because of the stresses of living there. But my father said yes, and my mother said no. So, it was really interesting how they each had a different take on that decision to leave in 1967.

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And when they arrived in Connecticut, was your family able to find a Filipino community? That's a great question. So, there was a Filipino community, and

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my father, who was a great leader, he was instrumental in starting an organization called Filipinas of Connecticut. [laughs] So, we would meet regularly, and then we would have a Barrio Fiesta, you know, we would participate in parades

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and different things. So, we did have a community there. But, you know, when I see my cousins in California, not as much as they do, you know, or–or th-that they have now.

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And again, I'm sure that may have—may change—have changed, now that, you know, sort of, we live in a more of a global world, where people are everywhere. But at that time, there really weren't a lot of Filipinos there. But–but my father found a way, and we found–found people, which was–which was

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wonderful. Yeah, that's really good. So, within that kind of community, did you celebrate any, like, traditional holidays or cultural customs that you maybe still celebrate now?

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You know, again, I think we just did the Bar–the Barrio Fiesta, which was big. I think, you know, I learned how to do the Tinikling and the–the candle dance. But no, it was pretty Americanized, I think, though, too. So, yeah. So, not—you know, I think the food, of course, is always

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celebrated, and it's pretty wonderful now that there are Filipino restaurants in Houston, that—and that it's sort of, like, you know, seeing Filipino recipes in The New York Times. It's kind of, you know, wonderful to see that, you know, our food and culture are

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being celebrated. Do you have a favorite Filipino restaurant in Houston? Oh, gosh, that's tough. So, there are different kinds of restaurants.

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I think Flip 'n Patties is more sort of like fusion burgers. That's sort of the first one that–that I loved. And then, you know, Max's Fried Chicken is here, and Little Manila, which is great. But I also like Be More Pacific on Yale, in the Heights.

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It's pretty fantastic. And if you want to go there on a Friday night and sing karaoke, it's pretty great. But also, I think that the Soy Pinoy that's in the new POST building—have you been there yet?

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It's pretty fantastic. Oh, you must go. And there's a wonderful rooftop garden that, at night, you have this really great view of downtown.

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So, it's pretty–pretty wonderful to go there. Wow, that sounds really beautiful. Yeah, it's really great. Moving on, kind of, to education a little, [BFA: Sure.] so, you studied

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photography at the University of South Florida. So, what made you want to go to Florida? And also, what drew you to photography as a medium? So, when I was 10, my family moved to Florida.

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So...I initially did not want to do photography. I thought I wanted to be a news reporter––a newscaster like Connie Chung, and I had a boyfriend who had traveled a lot, and I kind of wanted to do that.

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So, I started waiting tables, and I saved up enough money to go to Europe, and a backpacking trip with a friend. And when I was there, I'll never forget: I was in Florence, the light that was coming into the window was just so beautiful, and I think my laundry

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was hanging, and I photographed it. And again, this is on film, so I didn't know what the image looked like until a month later, when I was home and I got it processed. And I saw that image and I was like, "Wow, that's the power of

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photography." So, I switched my major that fall [laughs] to photography, and never looked back. And, you know, as a photo teacher too, I think there's an old adage that students take photography classes in order to see

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themselves. And I think I didn't see myself, you know, in our culture growing up, a lot in the 70s. And maybe in the late 80s, it started to come, but, you know, here we are now in 2023, and representation is big.

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You know, just with all that's been happening, just even in the Oscars, with Michelle Yeoh winning, you know, what that does to my heart when she says, "For all the boys and girls who look like me," it's just–it's–it's a pretty powerful thing that just happened this month, you know?

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So, you know, my work did start delving into sort of how I was seen, and it's—you know, I mean, I think it–it has stayed with me, you know, and again, it's changing, yes, definitely.

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The culture has changed. But we're not there yet. So–did that answer your question [EM: Yes, yes.] about—[laughs] okay.

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And I know you–you mentioned that, like, your father and maybe one of your brothers were into photography. [BFA: Mhm.] Were your parents supportive of your decision to major in that? You know, my parents were pretty great.

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They let me choose what it is that I wanted to do. I think at first, when I did switch majors, there was a question about, "Well, can you get a job in that? What are you doing?" You know, and I just said, "You know, I think I really just want

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to do this." So, I think they–they both just said, "Okay, go for it." But on my trip to—this is funny––on my trip to Europe, my mother was not pleased that I was gonna go by myself, with just another girlfriend. So, she had me take my—take them out to dinner and tell my father.

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And of course, my father was like, "That's wonderful, you should go." [laughs] So, it was sort of just this push-pull. And she's like, "I can't believe you're saying that–that she can go do this thing!" But–but he trusted me, and knew my ability.

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So, it was pretty–pretty wonderful that he did that. Yeah, that's good that they had that trust in you. So, at USF, [BFA: Yes.] how big was your photography studio, and, like, were you close with your studio mates?

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Yes. So, you know—and I always tell my Photo 1 students this: "You never forget your first photo class." Because I think it really opens up your world and how you see. It changes the way you see things, I mean in terms of light, in terms of line,

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just in terms of structure, formal structure, composition. And, you know, I'm–I'm still in touch with some of my friends from my Photo 1 class. It wasn't a very huge photo program at USF at the

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time, but it's pretty magical to learn how to process your own film, and to be in a dark room, and to see an image develop in the developer tray. So, I think we all kind of sensed that magic together.

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So, I think it really kind of connected us. One thing though, that I do remember, is I graduated in 1989, and the first digital class came to my—to USF the semester I graduated, and

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I was just like, "I'm never doing that. That's not real photography." And then, of course, when I get to graduate school, I take one digital class and I learn Photoshop 4.0, and I think, "Oh my God, this is life-changing.

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I can't believe it. I can't wait to do more." So, never say never. [laughs] Yes, and how was graduate school, like, compared to USF? It was harder and easier, I guess, to put it in a

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sentence. It's harder in the fact that you get to do what you want to do, but it's also easier in the fact that you get to do what you want to do, and go from there. But I'm–I'm kind of glad that I went to undergrad, I sort of lived a

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little life, I had a couple kids, and then I went back to graduate school, because it was–it wasn't just straight through. I think I was, you know, ready to—not—t-to

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just sort of be in my art, you know, and think I needed it at that time, too. So, it was–it was pretty wonderful. Also, just to be in Houston, I mean, as a photographer, Houston is absolutely amazing.

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I'll never forget my first month in Houston, moving here from Los Angeles, that I went to the Houston Center for Photography, and they actually led me to Rice University, to the community darkroom. And I'll never forget, every month I would go to the police station, I would pay for my

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card to get reactivated, and I could let myself in the building and use the darkroom whenever I wanted. That was just spectacular, that I had that access. And I was making work, and I was applying to graduate school at the time, too. So, it–it was just—it was perfect.

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So, I'm very grateful to Rice University for having that space at that time when I needed it to. But back to Houston being great for photographers, Houston Center for Photography is amazing, the Museum of Fine Arts is amazing, Anne Tucker, the curator at the time, and the fact that Fotofest, the biannual

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international festival, is here with the Fotofest Meeting Place. I couldn't be in a better city, being a conceptual art photographer. So, I'm really grateful that we landed here in Houston. That's awesome, sounds like Houston is kind of a photography hub.

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Absolutely, you know, and I think, you know, Houston—the art scene here is very welcoming, you know, if you're an artist and you come in, you're not sort of seen as a threat. It's like, "Come on, bring it," you know, "Let's see what you can do." And I remembered

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that feeling, so whenever I see a new artist coming to Houston, I try to welcome them as much as I can, and share what–what information I have, or introduce them to somebody that, you know, may help them with their art career, or getting a job, or finding a place to live, or where to eat.

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You know, I think, you know, Houston's pretty wonderful–wonderful that way, too. That's great, it sounds like a really supportive community. Absolutely, yeah. I'm–I'm really grateful.

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I'm really grateful for my art community. And, you know, I've recently just—not recently, but it's been a few years, that I joined the Filipino Artists–Filipinx Artists of Houston, that was started by my

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friend and artist Matt Manolo. And, you know, I'll never forget my first meeting. It was just to be in a room of not only artists, but they were Filipino artists, you know, where I felt like my voice was just so singular.

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It just amplified being in that room. And it was very emotional for me too, to be there. And it's just, you know, all the events that we put on the meetings and, you know, I'm–I'm–I'm, you know, I'm an older artist,

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too, in the group, too. So, I try to share with the younger artists what I know, and if I can help them. They know they can rely on me, too. That's really great. How–how do you think, like, the diversity in Houston has affected

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your art? That's a great question. I'm very proud that we are very diverse in this city. I noticed that when I go to other cities that aren't as diverse, I sense it, I feel it.

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And I feel comfortable here. I belong here. And, you know, I think that we are lucky to have so many countries coming here.

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And, you know, I teach at the community college all of the different countries. I think–I just came from a meeting, and I think they said we teach students from over 103 countries, and it's–it's pretty spectacular that we–we have each other.

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And, you know, I–I think we—you know, the diversity just makes this city that much greater, and I think people are noticing that, so they're moving here. You know, I think, you know, the boom that has happened in Houston in the past

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ten years, just it being a big city, it being very cultural, it having a lot of restaurants, food, art, you know, the opera, music, you know, a great—two great airports we can fly out of.

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I mean, it's–it's just—it's pretty–pretty—I mean, you know, and I think Houston, it's interesting. There are things about Houston just as far as, like, preservation and history, right? That, you know, they knock down any buildings, it's sort of the developer's kind

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of city, right? But on the other hand, it's, like, somebody can come here and reinvent themselves too, and, you know, just work hard and meet people, you know, it's–it's—I think it's pretty wonderful that way.

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And again, I think I've been here a long time. I-I moved here in 1994, so going on 30 years. I know a lot of people here, so I think it's—I feel—you know, and it's the longest place that my husband and I have ever lived.

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He was an Air Force brat, so he moved around quite a bit. And, you know, so I think we consider ourselves Houstonians now, because that's really where we're from, kind of, you know, and when, you know, we travel abroad, "Where are you from?" We say, "Texas," because that's what

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they'll know. So—which is kind of strange to even think about, that I'm, you know, over in Italy, and I'm saying, "Oh, I'm from Texas," but [laughs] but then I get the question—I did the Camino de Santiago last year, and I was with my

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American friend, and I would get—we would say, "We're American," and then I would get another question, "Where are you really from?" You know? And it's just sort of, like, "Okay." And then my friend's like, "Why are you talking about being Filipino so much?" I said, "I'm not talking about it, people are asking me

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that," you know? So—I mean proud to say it, but it's just kind of funny. But it–but it was also kind of interesting to be in Spain and to–to think about, you know, my maiden name being Flores and my mother's maiden name

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being Rodriguez, and walking through Asturias knowing that my great-great-great grandfather was from there. So, it was kind of–kind of a neat thing to walk across Spain, and to sort of have that weird connection with it too, coming from the Philippines.

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Yeah, that's really cool. You s-you said you were in Spain for—was it a festival? Or, like an art–– No, so, the C–the Camino de Santiago is a–is a pilgrimage walk.

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Sorry, I'm in a conference room at HCC, and people keep walking in—it's okay. [EM: Oh, no worries.] Okay, [laughs] and I keep sort of pointing at them, "No, I'm in here." The Camino de Santiago is a pilgrimage, and there are many different routes.

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And it's a pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela, which is a city that has this beautiful cathedral that has the remains of Saint James. And I turned 55 last year, and I told some friends

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that, "I think I want to do this walk." I read about it in a book—and I–I still haven't seen the movie "The Way", which everybody knows that—about it from that movie. But I haven't seen that, it's a Martin Sheen movie.

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But I read this book—when was it––in 2018, called "A Sense of Direction." And it was a gentleman who did two walking pilgrimages, one in Japan and then the Santiago–Camino de Santiago. And I just thought to myself, "I want to do that one day." And when I turned 55, it's,

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like, I want to do something to mark this year, as well as us coming out of COVID. And I said, "I would love to just get up in the morning, and all I had to do that day is walk." So two of my friends did it with me, and we started in France, and we crossed the Pyrenees,

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and we did several routes. We did the French route, and then because we wanted to be on the–the coastline, we switched to the northern route, and then we switched to the Primitivo, which is sort of the oldest route.

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And over five weeks, we walked over 500 miles across Spain. So when I look at a map now—at first when I did, I would–I would look at it, and then my feet would hurt. But [laughs] now, I just sort of think to myself, "I walked––my body moved itself across that distance."

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And it's a pretty amazing feeling, and it was an amazing experience too. And–and it's funny, I'd mentioned my backpacking trip to Europe before, because it kind of felt like that.

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Because my friend–my friends who went with me to—it was just sort of like, "Okay, what do we want to do today? Where do we want to eat? Where are we going to go? Where are we going to stay?" So you kind of have to figure that out, right?

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Like, when you travel. And we just had what we were carrying on our backs, and, you know, knock on wood, we didn't have too many sort of, you know, foot or knee issues. And, you know, we would walk some–some days, you know, over 20 miles.

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And it's just, you know, and then we would go to bed, we would be exhausted, we'd go to bed, we'd wake up, and say, "Okay, I'm ready to do it again." You know? Just thinking at what point is going to be your breaking point? But I'm pretty proud of us that we did it, and myself, that

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I was able to just endure that. You know, granted, along the–along the way, there are coffee shops too, there are, you know, it's not just desolate land. You know, they–they sort of have an infrastructure built into the different

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routes, so it's–it's a pretty amazing thing to do. And I encourage anyone who's interested in doing it to–to definitely go do it. Wow, 500 miles. [BFA: Yeah.] That sounds like a very tough, but very beautiful and rewarding experience.

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Right, no, I'm so–I'm so grateful that I was able to do that. Yeah. So moving on a bit to your career. [BFA: Okay.] So, it seems that photography was kind of your first main medium, since you studied it both in college at USF, and then also at U of–U of H for your

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master's program. [BFA: Yes.] But also starting from 2000, you started making incredible installations all over the world. [BFA: Yes.] So would you say that your main medium now is photography, physical art, or, like, a blend of the two?

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I think it's a–it's a blend of the two. It's a great question though too, as far as how I started as a photographer, and sometimes how I get introduced as a photographer, then I have to qualify, "Well, what I do isn't really straight photography.

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It's not just taking an image and print it—printing it and then putting it up on the wall in a frame." You know, I–I think of, you know, what photography meant for me was an image. But I think that flat, two-dimensional image was never enough, because I think I

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wanted it to say more than just this. I wanted it to occupy space. I wanted it to become three-dimensional. So it did start off with me cutting up a photograph, and printing it on

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transparency film, and then bending it to where it looked like a three-dimensional butterfly, or a pair of shoes, whichever you saw. And I think I liked that play. I think within my work, that still exists, with

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taking two parts, right? Making it one, and thinking it's one thing, but it's something else. Which just sums up sort of my identity too, in a nutshell, right? I think people meeting me, and then, "Oh, your English is very good," you

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know, "Oh, you grew up here?" You know, I think that to exist as a hyphenated American, a Filipino-American, right? That I have a foot in both.

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So it's kind of interesting too, that I have a foot in analog photography and a foot in digital photography, too. And then now, I think it's crossing over into installation artwork and sculptural, more sculptural.

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And I think, you know, that old adage, that, "Those who can't, teach." I think that those who can, teach. Because if you really want to know something, you have to learn it to teach it. So, I'm doing a lot of VR with my students right now, because we have

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amazing technology labs at HCC, Houston Community College, that I want to put that technology in the hands of my students. So I'm learning it quite a bit, and I'm–and I'm seeing how that may shape my artwork going forward as well.

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So I'm interested in that. And–and, you know, the new work, the piece that's up at the Moody Center Project Wall right now, is three dimensions. It's using 3D printing, it's using CT scans of my own bones,

00:29:41.970 - 00:30:01.640

which, you know, symbolically, I really love that it's sort of an internal part of me now that's external, that can symbolize many things for other people. It's about a wish, it's about a wish bone, it's about, sort of, I think-thinking about, you know, all that my parents hoped for in moving us to the

00:30:01.640 - 00:30:16.770

United States. It just—it's a symbol for so many things. And I really love where it's going, and I really love the installation at the Moody Project Wall, and love that Molly Everett, the

00:30:16.770 - 00:30:29.570

curator there, asked me t-to work with the Rice students on that project. Yeah, I'm taking a class at the Moody right now, so I always pass under it. Oh, great. Oh that— [laughs]

00:30:30.810 - 00:30:43.770

Yeah. So for that–that installation, could you kind of describe the significance of wishbones? And then also, as you mentioned, kind of the–the connection between bird migration and human migration?

00:30:44.730 - 00:31:04.170

Sure. So, ever since I was a little girl in Connecticut, I would lay on the ground and watch the birds fly, and just sort of seeing the murmurations and the shapes that they would take in the sky just has always fascinated me.

00:31:05.650 - 00:31:22.040

And I was reading Rebecca Solnit's book, "Recollections of My Nonexistence," and she mentions that she dreams about flying, and it reminded me that I do too. And I think that's always been sort of a wish, that I could physically fly.

00:31:23.230 - 00:31:37.090

And in my dreams, I do. I just sort of jump up, and I just—it's like I'm swimming, you know, and then I can go up or down or move myself. And I was thinking about if I could really actually fly, I would

00:31:37.090 - 00:31:55.690

need what birds have, which aren't necessarily wings, but I would need the strength in my chest to move them, which is a furcula, or a wishbone. And the analogous bones in the human body are our collarbones. So, I asked my doctor, "Hey-" and

00:31:56.480 - 00:32:14.380

I made–I made a mock-up—"I want to make this, but I want to make it of my own bones. Can I get a CT scan done?" And she said, "o." [laughs] And I was like, "I'm paying for it, I'm not going to run it through insurance or anything like that." And then a week later, I think she had a change of heart and just said,

00:32:14.380 - 00:32:29.170

"Okay, go ahead, here's–here's the–here's the thing." So I was able to get my scans of my bones, and then model them into my own wishbone, what would be my own wishbone if I were to actually fly, that would be in my chest.

00:32:31.150 - 00:32:49.490

You know, and I think in terms of thinking about it as sort of–sort of birds in flight, but it's also thinking about everything that's happening in the world right now too, with people moving and sort of—like I said, the global–the global existence that we all have.

00:32:50.160 - 00:33:06.840

I mean, even, you know, I—for spring break, I flew to Italy, you know? In one day I'm in Italy, the next day I can come home. I mean, it's really kind of spectacular that we actually do get to fly, you know? And I heard something before I went on that trip

00:33:07.500 - 00:33:20.920

that was talking about, you know, to help you sort of not get cranky while you're flying, think of all of the—think of–think of what a miracle it is that you can fly. And it's true! It is!

00:33:20.920 - 00:33:36.800

It's just—it's a pretty spectacular thing, and it's a very sort of surreal thing when you are in one country one day, and then, you know, 12 hours later, you're in another country across the ocean. You know, so–so back to the piece, [laughs] anyway.

00:33:37.300 - 00:33:49.410

But–but it's all about flight. I mean, think it–it is a pretty–pretty amazing thing that I think we take for granted sometimes too, that–that our bodies can move to different places, that my body can walk across Spain.

00:33:51.240 - 00:34:08.470

So I think it's–it's also about agency too. And I think, you know, I'm–I'm very fortunate that my parents had the choice to come, because I know at this time, it's really difficult. And, you know, we're seeing it happening, you

00:34:09.010 - 00:34:24.690

know, and I hate to bring up something horrible, but just what happened at the detention center on the border last week, you know, people are dying trying to get to this country, and, you know, they're just wanting a better life for their families, for their children.

00:34:25.550 - 00:34:41.040

And, you know, I––another part of the piece that is migrating and flowing through the Moody Project Wall, are the stories that I'm collecting. I think we all have a story.

00:34:41.130 - 00:34:57.830

All our families have a story about how we got here. But also, you, as college students, are migrating, right, to other positions, to other places. So it's not just about the migration from one country to another, it's about our own

00:34:59.070 - 00:35:13.840

movement. You know, and I think a migration can happen within your mind too, right? It could be a mindset. It could be how you see yourself, how you view yourself. So, those stories are being collected now until Earth Day, and then on

00:35:13.950 - 00:35:29.770

Earth Day, there will be a procession to the Rice Holistic Garden, where the stories will be composted. And then in September, once they've gone through the composting cycle, there'll be a plant giveaway, so that our words and our stories will grow

00:35:29.770 - 00:35:44.870

things. You know, and I think symbolically, what I love about that is that we as immigrants, we as people who move, we fortify the ground, right?

00:35:44.870 - 00:36:02.380

We make the ground better, we make the ground more fertile, and we make this country better. So I think that that's the message that I really would like for people to take away from the piece, and I think to be proud also, of their migrations, and to own them.

00:36:02.870 - 00:36:21.130

And the sharing of them, I think is wonderful. I think it's—it–it–it is—I–I notice when I see people sharing it, it is sort of this cathartic thing that happens. And it-and it just—when we read each other's stories and we learn about one another, then

00:36:21.130 - 00:36:34.940

I think that creates an empathy. And then, can we move forward to a possible, as Frantz Fanon says, a "collective catharsis," you know? Toward feeling better and feeling united,

00:36:39.060 - 00:36:58.220

just–just–just by that act of sharing and empathizing, and taking in other people's experiences. Yeah, absolutely. I really love how, like, the installation kind of comes full circle, and how there are so many different layers to migration.

00:36:58.220 - 00:37:12.780

I really love [BFA: Yes, thanks.] that. Yeah. Another one of your, like, swarm pieces, the Alief Swarm, I think that's [BFA: Yes.] so, it felt, like, really beautiful. And I love that you used a voting system to decide which shoes to make.

00:37:13.330 - 00:37:26.380

[BFA: Yes.] So, did you make all 1000 of the shoe butterflies out of the top choices for shoes? Or did you also add in some, like, other shoes? No, I-I-I put ten pairs of shoes forth.

00:37:26.380 - 00:37:44.310

I-I talked to community leaders, and I talked to a lot of students in Alief, to help me pick the ten shoes that would be voted on. And then the top five that were chosen were the shoes that were made into the printed dichroic acrylic, then that were bent

00:37:45.820 - 00:38:01.880

into the pieces that hang in the Alief Community Center right now. I'm very proud of that piece. You know, that piece was really born about 20 years ago, when I finished graduate school and I was doing piecework on

00:38:02.780 - 00:38:18.300

my Filipino-American identity, and thinking about fashion and shoes and objectification and gender conditioning. And, you know, my daughters brought me to that work. They were—how old were they then?

00:38:18.300 - 00:38:34.280

They were five and six at the time, and would wear my high heels pigeon-toed. So I started photographing the shoes that way. And when I started gridding them on the computer and on the studio wall, they started

00:38:34.280 - 00:38:44.410

looking like bugs and butterflies. So, again, I'm very haptic with my work. I have to do something to the photograph. So, I started cutting them out, and then I thought to print them on transparency film,

00:38:44.410 - 00:39:01.230

because that's something within photography that I've always loved, as well as it having the ability to project color onto the wall when–when the light shines through them. So, again, the migration has just always been part of my work,

00:39:02.360 - 00:39:20.110

and that's where they started migrating on the wall. And, you know, when people see them, they think of, "Oh, they look like the Filipino islands, or—the Philippine islands, or they look like land masses, or—" you know, so I like the fact that it's both, you know, it could be

00:39:20.110 - 00:39:39.070

something in the sky, but it's also in the land. And, so, it's—the technology has caught up with the idea, because I think I really wanted that idea, that—the idea of the shoe butterflies to occupy space,

00:39:39.600 - 00:39:55.510

to be, like, real things, right? I mean, I think it's, again, that idea of going from two dimensions to three dimensions just with a fold. And, you know, with laser cutting, and with the printing

00:39:55.730 - 00:40:09.530

technologies that are available now, I could not have made this piece before, cutting acrylic by hand. So, I'm pretty excited about sort of the technologies now, and how they're affecting my work.

00:40:09.530 - 00:40:22.940

I mentioned VR earlier too, I'm doing 3D printing, I took a CT scan of my bone, I'm able to sculpt that. It's pretty exciting too. And I think as a photographer too, I've been open to that.

00:40:23.030 - 00:40:36.930

You know, I think because photo was sort of the "new medium," you know, within the art departments for so long. You know, and a lot of these new–new medias fall under the guise of photo departments, because it's sort of like, "Well, where else are we going to put it?"

00:40:37.300 - 00:40:49.480

Or, they create a new media department at universities. So, it's–it's kind of interesting how that works. But, no, I'm really proud of that piece. I love that it's at the Alief Community Center.

00:40:50.100 - 00:41:06.720

I'm very proud that the Alief community had a part in it, and the city of Houston, MOCA, the Mayor's Office of Cultural Affairs, supported that work. And not just of–of–of my work, but there were two other women-led groups

00:41:07.180 - 00:41:26.240

whose art pieces are in that building, that are just very proud to have my work alongside theirs. It's the Red Thread Collective and Falon Mihalic. That's really cool. So, I know you mentioned when you were little, you kind of looked up

00:41:26.240 - 00:41:41.580

to Connie Chung as, like, a role model. Do you hope that, like, children will also look up to you in the same way? Sure. You know, Emily, one thing I love when I walk into a class, people see my name and it's Bennie Ansell.

00:41:41.580 - 00:41:57.830

They probably think I'm some white dude. And then [laughs] I walk into the class, and they're s-they're sort of taken aback, and I think—my students of color, I think it makes a difference, for them to see me, and for them to say, at the

00:41:57.830 - 00:42:14.920

end of my class, "I want to be a college professor like you." You know, yes, she is who I saw, you know. That is what I thought I could do, because that is the only other person who looked like me that was out in sort of the cultural world that I was seeing,

00:42:15.420 - 00:42:30.760

you know, at the time. You know, and, you know, the stereotypes and all of that were still very, very present in the 70s. You know, and yes, that's changing still.

00:42:31.530 - 00:42:51.210

I went to a talk the other night at––for the Rothko Chapel and Carrie Mae Weems, this Black photographer who I consider one of my art ancestors, who when I found her work when I was in graduate school, I just was like, "Yes, this is sort of what I want to address as a woman of color in America." She and Lorna

00:42:51.210 - 00:43:11.310

Simpson were two of my favorite artists at the time, who really inspired me to be more conceptual, to use text in my work. But she said this thing the other day, and it has stayed with me, in terms of talking about sort of race and what's going

00:43:11.310 - 00:43:26.620

on in our country. She called it "the changing same." And I thought, "Oh my gosh." You know, when I was in graduate school, you know, 20-plus years ago, I was making work about race. And sometimes I was told, "We're past this.

00:43:26.900 - 00:43:41.710

We don't need to be addressing this anymore." But here we are, you know, 20-plus years later, finally addressing it, like, really addressing it. And, you know, I'm just glad there's an awareness of it.

00:43:42.240 - 00:44:03.370

I'm glad that Michelle Yeoh won the Oscar, and to say something like that. And I-I love the fact that, you know—this is kind of funny. I noticed this on Instagram, that Brandy, the Cinderella Brandy, that they're coming out with sort of a-a redo of her as an older parent with her

00:44:03.370 - 00:44:21.330

Filipino husband, [laughs] Prince Charming, [laughs] but I sent that to my daughters. But I'm really grateful that they had women of color to look up to too, just in their lifetime. You know, and I think that that means a lot to me, you know, that they're

00:44:21.390 - 00:44:39.330

able to see women of color as beautiful, that there wasn't this sort of just whitewashed sense of beauty. I mean, we're still fighting that today, you know, there's–there's so much about that, and there's so much relearning that people have to do.

00:44:39.370 - 00:44:55.260

I mean, you know, even within different cultures, I think how dark you are too, says something. You know, I think my—I used to get chastised by my mother for being out in the sun when I was a child, because I would get too dark. I didn't understand that, you know?

00:44:55.260 - 00:45:11.310

And then I—then, of course, I equated that with it being bad, you know? So, you know, I would love to show children that they can do anything, you know, and I tell my students that, "You–you know––the sky's the limit.

00:45:11.900 - 00:45:31.760

You are limiting yourself if you think you can't do something." So, figure out how to do it. There's–there's nothing to be afraid of, but you got to work hard. And, you know, you can't sort of just be in a cocoon and think somebody's going to discover you. You have to put yourself out there, and own

00:45:31.760 - 00:45:48.090

who you are, and be proud of it, and know that you can do it, so. Right. And kind of related to that, so, if your children were to watch this interview in the future, what [BFA laughs] is, like, one message you would wanna tell them?

00:45:49.330 - 00:46:06.210

My own children? Oh, gosh, you're gonna make me cry. [laughs] [EM laughs] No–no, I-I asked—so, you sent me the questions ahead of time, about, "What did my daughters think about me being an artist?" [EM: Yeah.] So, as a working mother, sometimes, you always feel guilty when you're

00:46:06.210 - 00:46:21.620

working, because you should be with your children, or when you're with your children, that you should be working. You know, I asked my daughters that question when I–when I received them from you. And one daughter said that me being an artist has shown

00:46:21.620 - 00:46:40.730

her that art is everywhere, I think kind of like my parents showed me too, that, you know, find beauty in everything. You know, and I think my other daughter said that, you know, she never sort of felt like it took me away from them.

00:46:40.850 - 00:46:55.660

I think she loved the fact that I was an artist. And, you know, we didn't have any family here. So she said when we would go to art openings, they had this extended family of artists that sort of became their aunts and uncles, and watched them grow up.

00:46:57.090 - 00:47:12.300

So–so that was pretty beautiful. You know, and then, I do have grandchildren now. My daughter said that my grandson's face lights up whenever she tells him, "We're gonna go see one of Lola's art pieces now." So that, I think—but I think

00:47:12.300 - 00:47:30.760

that's probably wonderful, him to see that I play still, you know? I mean, it's—my artwork is a form of play for me. And, you know, and I think for a lot of artists, I think you have to let your adult self go sometimes, in order to spend that time in the studio

00:47:31.720 - 00:47:48.170

to do these things, and give—I think it's a sort of—and I think artists feel this way too, it's, like, you're giving yourself this time to be creative and to be yourself. And, so, yeah.

00:47:48.590 - 00:48:07.240

I-I-I hope they're proud of me, I know they are. I think that they're both kind of amazing too. I think they're both, you know, very–very mindful of art. And, you know, my oldest daughter, I'll never forget—she's an

00:48:07.400 - 00:48:24.340

old soul, her name is Thora. We were at a museum one time, and she looked at an art piece, and she was thinking what I was thinking conceptually about it, which was beyond her years. And I just kind of looked at her like, "Oh my gosh, you

00:48:24.340 - 00:48:38.690

saw that?" I was like, "That's pr—" you know, but it's pretty great. But I mean, I think that also speaks to the visual language of art coming through into somebody, that can come out in words, you know?

00:48:39.870 - 00:48:51.610

I'm a visual artist. I'm not a writer. You know, I'm not great at public speaking. Sometimes I just don't feel very comfortable doing that. I–I say what I need to say in a visual form.

00:48:53.030 - 00:49:10.960

So—but, anyway, I'm very proud of my daughters. I love, you know, the fact that they, you know, got to witness me doing something I loved, 'cause I think that encourages them too. You know, and again, I had them—and what was great at U of H, at the time, their preschool

00:49:10.960 - 00:49:21.720

was on campus. So, they went to school and I went to school, and then I would pick them up, and then we would go home. So it was kind of a wonderful thing that–that I was able to do that with them, at that time.

00:49:23.860 - 00:49:37.480

That's really amazing. Do you have any, like, family hobbies that you like to do? We used to snowboard during spring breaks. I think our hobbies now are eating really good food.

00:49:37.850 - 00:49:53.490

[laughs] We like to eat a lot. I think just, you know, post-COVID too, I think just being together, hanging out at the house, talking, or taking my grandchildren to the park, is pretty wonderful.

00:49:53.690 - 00:50:12.820

And, you know, I'm just grateful that they're both here in Houston, and that we get to have family dinners, and, you know, they get to see my work. And, you know, it was a pretty proud moment for me to have my family at the Alief opening.

00:50:14.240 - 00:50:32.400

You know, and it—and again, the pi-the piece had been finished since July, but I had to kind of keep it hush-hushed–hush until the city unveiled the piece. And that was a really proud moment for me, as well as the piece at the Moody Center. And I–I love the way the opening went at the Moody Center too,

00:50:32.400 - 00:50:51.810

because I had people share their migration stories. So it was almost like they spoke to what my piece was about to them, as well as Marc Armeña's writing on Rudolfo Hulen Fernandez, who was the first Asian American

00:50:52.330 - 00:51:09.760

student to graduate from Rice. And it was–it was pretty spectacular to have him, as a current undergraduate, speak about the very first Filipino-American, Asian American, at Rice. So, I really loved that.

00:51:09.760 - 00:51:29.250

And do either of your children—do they also do art? So, as much as I encourage them [laughs], my oldest daughter, Thora, is an amazing photographer, and she did photography in high school.

00:51:30.000 - 00:51:45.810

And I think she worked at the photo lab at her university, at KU, for the first two years. But then, I think she decided that she had the teacher gene, and she graduated with an education degree.

00:51:46.710 - 00:52:04.870

However, she's now at U of H in the graduate program. She's about to graduate in May, and she is getting a master's in social work. So, I think she feels like she can make a difference in children's lives that way too. And, yeah, she's–she's pretty—they're both

00:52:04.920 - 00:52:16.920

pretty amazing, sort of, interior designers. I think they get that from me. I move furniture around a lot, which is kind of the joke within our family, that we always do. And my daughter Zoe—they're both very much into

00:52:16.920 - 00:52:31.560

fashion, and my daughter Zoe is a lawyer. However, she's an amazing creative writer. So, I think one day she might stop lawyering and get back to that. Maybe that's just my wish, but we'll see.

00:52:33.070 - 00:52:47.620

That's great. It sounds like the creative gene was kind of just everywhere. [laughs] [BFA: Yes, yes.] And finally, the last two questions, kind of like a joint question. [BFA: Okay.] So first, do you—how do you identify yourself ethnically?

00:52:47.680 - 00:53:05.780

So, this could be, like, Filipina, or Filipina American, or...And then also, do you plan to visit the Philippines anytime soon? Very good question. I am—I consider myself to be a Filipina American, is what I say. And, you know,

00:53:06.020 - 00:53:24.470

that question has always daunted me, because I have never been back. And it's–it's a funny question, because I would go back, and I would probably feel like it was more foreign to me than more connected to me.

00:53:26.240 - 00:53:42.890

You know, and I know that that's weird to say, but I feel my Filipino roots when I'm with my cousins in California. I–I feel my Filipino roots when I hear Tagalog spoken. All of my uncles and aunts have left the Philippines.

00:53:43.830 - 00:53:58.780

I have a couple cousins that live there now. And the cousin who was my father's goddaughter, her name is Christina, she passed away last fall. She and I were planning to go, and I just—it–it just really breaks my heart that

00:53:58.780 - 00:54:18.030

I was not able to go back with her, because I wanted her to show me. You know, and my father was an architect, so there are some buildings that probably still exist that he had a hand in in Manila that I would like to see. My daughter Zoe is encouraging me to go back, so

00:54:18.030 - 00:54:32.710

I would definitely like to do that. You know, and it's funny how my mother doesn't want me to go back, because she thinks that they'll hear that I'm an American, and they'll kidnap me. [laughs] But—I mean, I know that's not the case, but still.

00:54:34.530 - 00:54:51.810

You know, I really wish that our parents taught us Tagalog. I was talking to my daughter about this the other day, 'cause she was talking to one of her friends whose parents didn't teach her Spanish, and how she felt like she was at a disadvantage, then, when she's with her family.

00:54:52.220 - 00:55:09.660

You know, and I—and yes, I'm going to learn Tagalog, and I also want to learn Italian. But, you know, I think they were just, again, just worried about us assimilating. And, you know–you know, they heard from other friends that

00:55:11.180 - 00:55:24.560

when they spoke Tagalog at home, that their children were h–were held back in school. So I think they were kind of concerned about that. But again, you know, parents make the best decisions they make when, you know, when they're tasked with something to do.

00:55:24.560 - 00:55:41.530

So, you know, again, I don't blame them for that, but that is a wish that I have. But I do feel comfortable when I'm around Tagalog, and hearing it, and hearing my cousins speak it, and then having them speak it to me, and I understand what they're saying. It's a pretty wonderful thing.

00:55:41.970 - 00:56:00.970

But yes, I–I would like to go back, but I–I think—I don't know if you've heard of the Kalinga tribe and the women with the tattoos, the older women with the tattoos. You have to climb up a mountain to go there to get a tattoo. I would like to do that one day, and I think that would feel kind of amazing, to be—to

00:56:01.940 - 00:56:19.230

go back to the—my country of origin, and then to–to mark, to literally mark it on my body would be a wonderful thing to do. If you're on Instagram, Vogue Philippines, sort of the main woman that's sort of left of that tribe, she's on the cover.

00:56:19.680 - 00:56:28.690

So, definitely something to look at. Yeah, that'd be a really amazing thing to do. Do–do you know what you would want to get tattooed? Or is it like—

00:56:29.190 - 00:56:45.710

Well, you know what she said? In the article—which I think rings true to me now too, now that I have a granddaughter—her symbol now is, like, three dots. So, it's one for her, one for her–her niece, or

00:56:46.460 - 00:57:06.040

her grandniece, who was her protégé, and then she has one other person she's training. So, I think it is sort of this beautiful continuity of generations of knowledge of––you know, and I think some of those tattoos that Filipinos get, it's about their story.

00:57:06.440 - 00:57:23.780

And it's–it's, you know, it—on their skin. You know, I think there's–there's something that's very beautiful about that happening, and then—as being also a record that's being kept, which I think is really pretty beautiful.

00:57:27.210 - 00:57:37.740

Absolutely, yeah. So, that's all the questions I have planned for today, [BFA: Okay.] But do you have anything else you'd like to add? No, no, thank you for inviting me.

00:57:37.740 - 00:57:54.480

It's a big honor, to be part of the Asian American Archive at Rice. And—no, I'm just grateful, and I'm grateful that my piece is up at the Moody Center too. Again, I feel like I've come full circle from when I moved to Houston and I started working in the darkroom at Rice.

00:57:54.580 - 00:58:02.540

And now my piece is showing there. Right, yeah, as I said, it's very beautiful. I walk— Oh, thank you. [laughs] Thank you so much.

00:58:03.310 - 00:58:10.580

Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your experiences with me, and have a nice rest of your day. Okay, you too. All right, bye, Emily. Bye bye.