00:00:02.880 - 00:00:20.500

Okay, so today is February 18th, 2024. My name is Kelly Guo and I'm here today with Bach Mai on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice University. And to start, please state your full name and where and when you were born.

00:00:20.730 - 00:00:38.520

Bach Tran Mai. In Vietnamese Bạch Trần Mai or Mai Trần Bach, actually, but I was born in Houston, Texas, and—on December 23rd, 1988. And how would you describe the household you grew up in?

00:00:39.000 - 00:01:09.250

The house that I grew up in, my household? This is probably one of the harder questions...How would I describe the house I grew up in?

00:01:09.250 - 00:01:26.430

It was—like my household, like the family right? It was...fine. Standard. I think I shared many commonalities with many other Asian American immigrant families

00:01:29.250 - 00:01:46.670

and also with families of my generation. My parents did get divorced when I was quite young, which is very common with many children of my, kind of, generation.

00:01:53.630 - 00:02:16.000

It was fine. I think there—it was complicated, but there was a large family. There was a lot of people around. And, you know, coming—growing up, obviously in Houston

00:02:16.580 - 00:02:33.180

with a large Vietnamese immigrant population here. There was also a lot of community as well. But, you know, I had amazing aunts and uncles that also took care of me, especially my aunts.

00:02:35.400 - 00:02:49.990

Obviously there was a bit of disconnect between my parents, which led to their divorce, but—and I had two half-siblings from my mother's previous marriage who were much older than me, 8 or 9 years older.

00:02:51.330 - 00:03:07.340

So I had—but overall, I mean, we were—we lived in the suburbs. We lived in a perfectly nice neighborhood and I felt safe. I was supported, I had family around, so it was fine. It was fine.

00:03:07.360 - 00:03:27.530

Thank you. And can you share any, like, childhood memories? Childhood memories are a fun one...Both so many memories, but none that really

00:03:29.530 - 00:03:52.010

stand out, I think. You know, memories ranging from—my mother was very and still is very a big part of the Buddhist community here. Whether it was arranging flowers with my mother at the temple,

00:03:52.050 - 00:04:11.960

or I used to take road trips with my father every year to Disneyland, to D-Disney World, in fact, in Florida, or my father helping me to build things. He was an engineer. And so playing with Connects

00:04:12.090 - 00:04:29.230

in particular. Or my uncles who my father's side really went into computer science, and I think we got exposed to computer technology a little ol—little earlier than some other kids.

00:04:29.480 - 00:04:45.320

You know, whether it was my uncle teaching me how to use MS-DOS when I was like, what, 6 or 7 to try to get into computer games or, or anything like that. Nothing that really stands out.

00:04:46.460 - 00:05:02.560

There's just lots of memories. I think some of the more pertinent memories were, you know, I knew I was gay when I was pretty young. Well, I don't know. It's hard to say that I—you don't know what that means. You don't know what [00:05:00] being gay means at that point.

00:05:02.560 - 00:05:21.820

You just know you're different. And I think that feeling and that kind of that recognition was there when I was very young and I—that was something that definitely was there.

00:05:22.640 - 00:05:39.580

And I think my family knew it. Everyone knew it. And so it was something that was always present. But, you know, I say a lot about that process, which I don't think people talk enough about, which is, you know, before you come out to everyone else and come out to the world, you have to come out to

00:05:39.580 - 00:05:58.380

yourself, and that is the hardest thing. And so that process in itself of coming out to yourself in terms of understanding who you are and also recognizing and identifying with the idea of being

00:05:59.120 - 00:06:20.420

LGBTQIA+, which was also not what it was back then is also really important as well. Thank you. And has there been much like generation or cultural gap that you observe within your family?

00:06:25.930 - 00:06:44.990

Not really. Not as much as I—I definitely observe it with other families, especially other Asian American or immigrant families, is something I definitely observe. I don't think my family had it as much. I mean, in fact, I observe it a lot with my—even the most in

00:06:45.080 - 00:07:02.170

our family—my family, my people I find myself around. The most I observe it [coughs]. I would observe it is with my cousins family. So, my–my father's brother's wife's family,

00:07:02.770 - 00:07:20.520

which is definitely—they're much more traditional and they're more—they're not as—that's I served more of a gap. I see them like twice a year for holidays. But even, you know, my own father's side extremely, you know, relatively liberal and–and very well educated and–and

00:07:21.990 - 00:07:43.470

modern, th-that was I don't think the gap was—especially not the way you see it often portrayed in television and in movies and things like they were—it's surprisingly no, I think relative to what I see, either in other families or seen portrayed in the media,

00:07:43.560 - 00:07:59.270

like probably have the least [unintelligible]. So no, not really, which is, I think, very beneficial to my upbringing in many ways. Thank you. And how did you first develop your interest for fashion?

00:08:01.390 - 00:08:17.710

Lord knows. It's just been so long that I—who knows how it began. I know my sister was interested in fashion and she introduced that to me. Maybe through her.

00:08:26.360 - 00:08:47.560

And—I mean, I really have no idea, really, I—I could not pinpoint some beginning, I can pinpoint moments that became very influential to me. Very impactful. But why I started even looking into this or why I even started even opening that door.

00:08:47.680 - 00:08:58.400

I-I cannot remember. Does your sister also work in fashion industry? No, she does not. Not at all [laughs]. She just loved clothes. Still does.

00:08:58.400 - 00:09:14.720

Thank you. And so you mentioned that you had an apprenticeship with the Houston Ballet could you elaborate on this experience—this experience? I'm going to step back a little bit to, you know,

00:09:15.560 - 00:09:32.100

part of the other growing up. And, you know, my father was an engineer. He worked for Shell almost all his life. And my mother did something very stereotypically Vietnamese, which is she did nails. We had a nail shop, and I used to spend a lot of

00:09:32.210 - 00:09:45.230

time there as a kid. You know, when I was very young, like after preschool, after, you know, they'd pick me up and I'd go there. So, I think a lot of that was—I also spent time around all these women who are coming in to like, do their nails.

00:09:45.230 - 00:10:00.170

And I would talk to them and I would get, you know, be my charming little gay child self. There's an aspect of glamour there. And then maybe there's—of course, there are magazines [00:10:00] there,

00:10:00.170 - 00:10:12.080

because that's what people did before they had phones, while they were waiting, they read magazines and while they were waiting to get their nails done. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. But again, I'm so young. No idea.

00:10:12.840 - 00:10:32.130

In terms of Houston Ballet, that was my first real internship. I had already—but by that point have been interested in clothes, in things, in fashion. But that was my first kind of experience.

00:10:32.130 - 00:10:46.280

So, my first internship was with the costume shop at Houston Ballet. I also loved ballet, like, so it made sense to be there. I loved ballet so much. And I loved—and being and getting to be there,

00:10:47.200 - 00:11:03.180

seeing clothes being made, like really drafted and made and designed for the first time. I remember, the pattern makers in the studio because we were—I worked kind of I interned under like

00:11:05.190 - 00:11:20.470

the–the costume shop side of like managing the costumes. And they were just organizing and I was just a little kid. I didn't know what I was doing, but the other side was the st—you know, this—the atelier where they were making—they were pattern makers and people were making clothes. And I remember they were doing

00:11:20.470 - 00:11:33.120

Carnival of the Animals. Which I believe was a new Stanton Welch piece at the time. And she was drafting one of the pattern makers, one of the lead pattern makers, I think, was drafting a costume for the Swan.

00:11:34.370 - 00:11:46.930

And I remember seeing this because I think I was already making clothes by that point. I was already exploring and making clothes and making clothes for my cousins by this point. But this is my first time really seeing, like, professionals doing it.

00:11:46.930 - 00:12:03.110

And there was just this really beautiful—by now I look at it, it's very simple and I-I know what it is. I can explain it. It's just, you know, fisheye dart basically. But this is beautiful black V-neck top. And it was just cut so beautifully and sewn so

00:12:03.130 - 00:12:13.440

perfectly. And it was so quiet and elegant. And I was just like, "Oh my God! How did you—what is this? How do you do this?" And I can understand her reaction now for her was like,

00:12:13.470 - 00:12:30.200

"Oh, this is just a very simple thing. It's very basic." But I was just so enamored by, like, just the beauty of this top, basically, that as I remember it, which is funny. Now, looking back on it, I was like, "Oh, that's a very simple thing."

00:12:30.200 - 00:12:42.340

But back then I didn't know anything. I was just, you know, using what I had learned in geometry class and tried to just make patterns of some sort. Just making clothes, trying to dress a body in some way.

00:12:42.790 - 00:12:58.570

But it was just so beautifully done and so perfect. It's like, so impressed in that moment. What was your question? [KG: No, it was like—] About the Houston Ballet? [KG: Yeah.] And just—it's just being around all of that and people who had chosen

00:12:59.410 - 00:13:11.810

to work in this field as a profession. I think for the first time. That was really important. And also just being at the ballet, which is magical. And I continue my relationship with the Houston Ballet to this day, which is great.

00:13:12.010 - 00:13:24.640

Did this experience motivate you to, like, pursue a formal education at Parsons? I would say it's part of it. I think that was—if I wanted to do it, I was going to pursue it anyway.

00:13:25.250 - 00:13:44.090

It just gave me a touch of that experience. And again, like, seeing someone who had such skill and mastery in their craft to make clothes and to, you know, whether it was making patterns or drafting or sewing. I think could obviously have only driven the point further

00:13:44.160 - 00:13:59.130

of how much I had to learn, but I think I already knew that. So whether my experience with the Houston Ballet is the reason. No, I don't think so. But it only helped solidify, you know, that this is something I loved

00:13:59.580 - 00:14:12.640

and that it's something I wanted to pursue. And of course, what do you do when you want to pursue something? You learn about it. You go to school for it, so I did [laughs]. How did Parsons help you grow as a fashion designer?

00:14:13.740 - 00:14:28.060

Well, I mean, it taught me. I—you know, my—I-I like, took some sewing classes. I spent a lot of time, you know, before, when I was in high school, I took sewing classes. I spent time at

00:14:28.060 - 00:14:44.610

the fabric store learning. I was making clothes and–and even at Saint John's, which was very–which is where I went to high school, which is very beneficial for me. They allowed me at that time they had a program called ISP—Independent Study Project. I actually developed my own course of study in high school to study fashion.

00:14:45.740 - 00:14:58.980

And so to have a school, even in high school, that allowed me the freedom and the birth to do that was already incredible. So, I got to really already start to have an academic approach to

00:14:59.180 - 00:15:13.860

fashion in high school, [00:15:00] where I started to learn the history and had the guidance and the structure provided by the amazing teachers who were there, while also like making clothes and making it a part of my curriculum. It wasn't just on the side anymore,

00:15:13.880 - 00:15:32.040

it was something that I incorporated into my studies starting in high school. So, going to school was a natural progression of that because that I, you know, I was also teaching myself, it's your independent studying. By the time I got to Parsons, I had already had my first runway show in

00:15:32.150 - 00:15:46.790

high school with some—there were clothes, weren't the best-made clothes, but they were clothes. And I had been making clothes for my friends and my cousin. And I made so much clothing for my cousin, and she was very patient with me as I learned how to do this.

00:15:46.820 - 00:16:05.160

And my aunts helped me. So, because I wasn't a great sewer then, but I still was sewing, and I learned how to sew and, and I was in whatever way, making my own patterns. And so Parsons helped to formalize all of that and to really teach me

00:16:06.580 - 00:16:23.690

formal skills of how to actually do these things, to approach fashion in a way. It was a formal education, and I didn't only go to Parsons, which is a very interesting thing. I went to The New School and I got two degrees.

00:16:23.720 - 00:16:43.700

I got a BFA and a BFA. My BFA was in fashion design from Parsons, and I got a BA from Eugene Lang, in the arts. It was a liberal arts degree, and I studied science and dance. And that was great

00:16:43.900 - 00:17:00.030

because it helped me to continue pursuing my passions and things that I was interested in outside of just fashion. You know, interestingly, for most of my life, I was singing,

00:17:01.320 - 00:17:12.390

and when I was about to graduate high school, I really had to decide, like, what was I going to do? You know, I had three great loves at that point. Technically, four, and I still do.

00:17:15.920 - 00:17:30.790

I love food. I've always loved food. I think a lot of my family for a long time, always thought I would go into food and become a chef or become a restaurateur, but I knew that wasn't what I wanted to do with my life. I loved dance, deeply.

00:17:31.190 - 00:17:47.460

Ballet, so much. I started dancing definitely later. I didn't really start studying ballet until, like, ninth grade, but I started dancing a little earlier. But really studying ballet. But the fact of the matter was, my body was not correct for it. My feet were

00:17:47.460 - 00:18:01.020

not right for it. I think if I had fully devoted myself to it, maybe I could have gotten somewhere. But I don't think I was the next Nureyev, and I knew it, so I still loved it very much.

00:18:01.080 - 00:18:17.440

And I'm so happy I was able to continue studying it in college, but it wasn't my career path. Singing I had done for most of my life. I was, dare I say, pretty good at it. I certainly had done it much

00:18:17.790 - 00:18:31.490

more than I had done fashion. Fashion at that point was relatively new. I'd only kind of started making clothes in high school for people and exploring this. And I had my ISP, but I'd been singing since I was,

00:18:31.490 - 00:18:47.670

like, in first grade, and I'd been taking vocal lessons and I'd been doing all of this and I'd been training. And so the great decision was like, "What do you want to do?" Because you do have to decide, was I going to go to conservatory? Was I going to go to design school? Was I also

00:18:47.730 - 00:19:05.470

going to just go to college first and figure it out later? Because you do end up in this cycle or in this? I don't know what to call it. This situation.

00:19:06.210 - 00:19:22.620

No, it's it's this like context. I don't know what else to call it, but you know that you go to college. Finish high school. You go to college. You get a degree in things that you can get a job in—and not just—and that didn't necessarily come

00:19:24.630 - 00:19:39.440

from my family side or the Asian American side, which was there. I mean, you go to college, there's an expectation, but also because I went to Saint John's, an amazing school. But, you know, what do you do after you go to college? Not that many people from Saint

00:19:39.440 - 00:19:56.670

John's pursue creative careers at, you know, when they go to college, they much—so, there's a lot of overlap with either, Saint John's or often a lot of like traditional immigrant slash Asian American expectations,

00:19:56.670 - 00:20:12.350

you know, go become a lawyer or a doctor or go business anything. [00:20:00] Lucrative careers, not artists. Because most people who did want to become artists, or whether it was performing arts or fine arts or whatever didn't stay at Saint John's.

00:20:12.350 - 00:20:28.950

Like, why would you why would you need to do that? But I also love to learn. That's always been great for me. So, at that point I was like, I had this expectation. There was still this idea that, "Oh, I could—I'll go to college,

00:20:28.950 - 00:20:41.820

like, just like everyone else. And then deal with it later, and then maybe I'll go to fashion school or maybe do something," you know, but just to go to college and have that experience and. And that's how I ended up at the BA/BFA program at the New School.

00:20:44.920 - 00:21:03.350

You know, n-not a lot–not a lot of students like me roll through Saint John's, but we have—they were so amazingly supportive, and we have an amazing college counseling program there. And they recognized that—and I-I-I still need to thank them and give a lot of props to the college counselor there that

00:21:03.410 - 00:21:20.650

I had, Mr. Rutledge, he recognized that I needed something different than what all the other students were getting. So, he made a call, I'm sure, and made sure that The New School, which never comes to Saint John's, that's not really on their circuit,

00:21:21.020 - 00:21:35.720

came and talked–talked to me. They were only there to talk to me. They no—they're not there to talk to any other students. Or I got a call—or at least it was a phone. I don't know if they came or it was a phone call? But I learned from talking to either an

00:21:35.720 - 00:21:53.690

alumni there or a representative from the school about the BA/BFA program, which allowed you to get a BA and a BFA concurrently because I never necessarily wanted to give up going to college and just getting a liberal arts education.

00:21:55.340 - 00:22:14.540

And so I was considering delaying studying fashion or whatever it was until after. But then I learned of this program that you can do both at the same time at this school. And that's how I discovered the program. Because I was–I was looking at other schools where I could get a liberal arts degree and

00:22:14.540 - 00:22:34.660

then study dance on the side and then maybe do fashion after. I wasn't sure. Fashion was very new. And whether I was going to sing or not was a whole 'nother issue. But it boiled down to the difficulty of the decision was, "Do you sing?" This

00:22:34.780 - 00:22:47.780

thing that you've been doing almost all of your life. You've trained hours and hours, like, endless hours before already that I've devoted my life to that. I did love to do. That I was good at.

00:22:52.220 - 00:23:03.720

Or this new thing that I also loved. But it was very new. I didn't know if I was good at it. No one could tell if I was good at it. It was so new and with the vocal thing, you know, I remember my voice teacher at the time,

00:23:03.740 - 00:23:21.760

I actually used to take voice lessons at Rice. One of my teachers was in the music program at Rice, and so I would come here for my vocal lessons after my ballet lessons. You know, they can't tell you what's going to happen

00:23:22.150 - 00:23:35.610

with your life, with your career, with your voice. They said, "We know you're going to have a big voice." That seems pretty evident. What that means beyond, like, there's still so much development left to do. So, I had to really think about it a lot.

00:23:39.490 - 00:23:58.020

And what I felt was that there was just something, something in my throat when I sang. It was—I wouldn't even call it an itch.

00:23:59.090 - 00:24:17.080

It's just a feeling, a tingle—a tinge. What I felt at that time was that that thing I was feeling was going to be the thing that held me back, because if I was going to be a singer, I wanted to be the greatest singer. If I was going to fo—pursue that

00:24:17.100 - 00:24:35.650

career I wanted to be the best. In everything. I always just wanted to be the best that's how I lived my life. And I just kind of felt that this—whatever I was feeling was that was might be the thing that was going to hold me back.

00:24:39.310 - 00:24:59.550

But that I had–I had a feeling that fashion could be the thing for me. That it th-there were—that it could be limitless. I didn't know at the time, obviously, it was still very new, but that's how I ended up kind of deciding to go in that direction.

00:25:00.680 - 00:25:18.260

And [00:25:00] then, yes, going to Parsons and getting that formal education and really going to art school, essentially, in New York. While also getting to get a liberal arts degree and still continue learning all these other things. It wasn't just fashion-related,

00:25:19.280 - 00:25:36.330

and it gave me such a well-rounded approach. To study, to design, to learning. I loved the BA/BFA program because I wasn't just taking these required fashion courses. I wasn't just in art school. I was also getting to take dance classes.

00:25:36.380 - 00:25:52.040

I was also taking classes about physics, which I hated in high school, and somehow loved in college. But more than anything, the degree I got at Lang was called Arts in Context, where you get to study a fine art and and a liberal art

00:25:52.520 - 00:26:09.210

at the same time in conjunction with each other. And a lot of it was about contextualizing art and learning about art, not just dance and science, but like aesthetics as a whole, or art as a whole, or and–and getting to have that

00:26:10.800 - 00:26:27.330

critical theory side of fine art. Or looking at art, I think was very beneficial to me and to how I grew as a designer. So, it wasn't just Parsons, which was also amazing.

00:26:27.390 - 00:26:43.930

I learned from wonderful teachers, I learned lots of amazing skills and formal techniques, but also in conjunction with that, learning a more academic and theoretical approach to art and theory was really what helped round that part of my education out.

00:26:44.030 - 00:26:55.650

And it was really, really amazing. I couldn't have asked for a better way to approach learning what I wanted to do at that time. It was a very long answer.

00:26:56.480 - 00:27:11.840

Thank you so much. And could you elaborate more on how does, like, science and, like, dance influence your, like, fashion philosophy? Or did it? It e-e-everything influences you.

00:27:12.690 - 00:27:26.550

And, you know, I later became a teacher [laughs], and I've tried to teach what I learned or the way of looking at design in the world that I gained through that. And it's been very difficult.

00:27:26.720 - 00:27:40.360

It's not something that a lot of students were able to get, I think. But it boils down to your creative universe. Your universe as a whole influences your design. Design and creation of work is so personal.

00:27:41.720 - 00:27:59.280

So, everything that you have taken in that you've learned that's in your mind, it comes back out. It all influences you. But, I think the thing that I try to take from it the most,

00:27:59.280 - 00:28:19.750

that I try to teach, that I try to explain, is that there is something to learn from absolutely everything. And from everyone. Everyone is a creator. I mean, I can't say I don't know about everyone, but so many people,

00:28:19.990 - 00:28:36.650

a lot of people are creators that people don't think of as creators. Albert Einstein is as much a creator and a creative thinker, and he's one of the most creative thinkers of all time. In fact, it takes creativity to see the world in a way that has not been seen before

00:28:38.620 - 00:28:55.940

and to v—to–to understand it and to then digest that and then put it out into the world. So, a theoretical physicist is as much a creator as, you know, a chemist in a lab, as much as a painter,

00:28:56.390 - 00:29:20.520

as much as a composer. There are ways of approaching creation and expression. That can be—you can learn from everyone's approach. And if you can find a way to synthesize or to just

00:29:22.060 - 00:29:36.630

to really grab the essence of what that person or that creator is doing and why and what drives them, you can learn so much. It is unreal the amount of—that you can learn.

00:29:37.490 - 00:29:55.210

And I think, of course there is the product, which I think people often go to the product, the final result as the thing to–to observe, to understand, to learn from. But the process is so much more important than even that.

00:29:55.910 - 00:30:14.460

So, if you can look at anyone's [00:30:00] process and you can look at anyone's one's process of creation and learn from it and take something from it that can influence you, or that can teach you something new that can affect your own processes.

00:30:17.350 - 00:30:31.940

And that alone is like—just such a treasure trove of knowledge. And so that is how I think people influence me. And there's also obviously product, like, finished things that influence me.

00:30:34.470 - 00:30:49.280

Anything can influence you though. And I think that that kind of idea. That absolutely anything can cause inspiration, anything can in-influence you, affect your creative universe. And that creative universe in the end, is what drives your own creation.

00:30:50.790 - 00:31:04.400

Thank you. And you also pursued a master's degree in, in Paris. [BM: Mhm.] Paris fashion school. And, how did your studying experience in Paris differ from your study experience in New York.

00:31:04.400 - 00:31:21.160

Well, I–I've been very tunnel vision like, my whole life. This is what I want. This is how I'm going to do it [laughs]. Which, you know, people often talk about manifesting now. It's become such a thing, manifesting. But what really is manifesting?

00:31:21.160 - 00:31:35.290

And I think that's the question people do not ask. You don't just sit there and think about what you want and it happens to you. You start by sitting there and thinking about what you want, and then you need to break down how you're going to get there.

00:31:36.370 - 00:31:48.530

And there are super macro goals to macro goals to medium goals to micro goals, to little nano goals, whatever you want to call them. But there's large steps to smaller steps. You break down how to get to each of those large steps,

00:31:48.530 - 00:32:02.530

and each of those smaller steps. You need to be broken down into smaller steps. And then and then you end up with a little roadmap. That you just start with a single step, but it eventually gets you hopefully to achieving

00:32:03.480 - 00:32:17.390

those medium goals into achieving those larger goals and then into, you know, where you want to be. And that for me is what manifesting really is. So, I decided...I loved haute

00:32:17.440 - 00:32:35.610

couture. I fell in love with couture through the work of John Galliano, really. And, you know, as a true millennial, this is growing up right when the internet was just, you know, available and fashion shows were being—I

00:32:37.680 - 00:32:54.120

don't know, I mean, technically, they were being live streamed because Victoria's Secret was the first to livestream a fashion show. But videos were being uploaded and then YouTube came, and then there was access beyond just the pages of Vogue,

00:32:54.120 - 00:33:07.640

which I also pored over. In fact, at Saint John's, at the end of every month, I would go to the library and they would give me the copy of Vogue to take home because they wouldn't keep it. So, I had a stack of Vogues by the time I

00:33:07.640 - 00:33:23.920

graduated. But there was so much available to you. Let me hear the question again. [KG: Oh, is a—] we were talking about Paris, right? [KG: Yeah.] How I got there.

00:33:24.020 - 00:33:36.810

How does your study experience at Paris differ from your experience in New York? Yeah. So, this idea of this, like, journey that it takes to get there, I was very much, you know, I fell in love with the work of John Galliano

00:33:36.810 - 00:33:58.390

because, you know, now I could go to Dior.com and they would upload these videos. And the spring summer 2004 show, like, blew my mind. It blew my mind. It opened up a world to me that I didn't know could exist, that I couldn't even fathom what

00:33:58.390 - 00:34:15.320

it was. It was just so fantastical and amazing and just—I was just entranced. I remember watching that show again and again and again, just like, "What is this? What is going on? It's just so amazing." And I became

00:34:15.320 - 00:34:35.900

enamored with the walking, following more and more about these shows and watching them. And it was just...so...incredible. And that's how I started falling in love with couture, which led me to learn more about it. And then so the ISP I did in high school was really about haute couture,

00:34:36.710 - 00:34:50.460

learning about haute couture, reading about it, studying the history, really learning more about it. And not just fashion, not just sewing, but haute couture. And really what this thing was, and taking an academic approach to it as well

00:34:50.980 - 00:35:09.270

and historical approach to it. So, at some point I decided, you know, part of that career was I would go to Parsons. I [00:35:00] didn't apply to any other fashion schools. It's like, "I'm going to Parsons. That's it. That's the school I want to go to." Luckily,

00:35:09.310 - 00:35:28.460

I got in. And I was going to learn, get my degree, graduate. I wanted to, like, intern for someone, and then I wanted to go to Paris and learn

00:35:30.010 - 00:35:48.230

haute couture. Learn from a couture master. Just to take that training and knowledge and then to bring it back and be an American designer at some point, that was like what I had decided for myself. So

00:35:48.230 - 00:36:00.010

I graduated from Parsons. And then Eugene Lang, I graduated from different—technically I got my Eugene Lang degree first and then I graduated from Parsons. But I—no, that's wrong.

00:36:00.390 - 00:36:16.860

I graduated from both at the same time. But I finished my Eugene Lang degree first, and then I finished my Parsons degree, and I graduated at the same time with both. Then, I interned at Oscar de la Renta. Which, interestingly enough, while I was there, was when John Galliano had

00:36:17.080 - 00:36:32.400

a brief stint there for two weeks designing there, and that was my first time meeting—I didn't really get to meet him. I saw him from far away, but I got to work on his designs. I got to work on his clothes there, and it was—more than any of that,

00:36:32.430 - 00:36:50.220

that was the first time I got to see John Galliano clothes in person. I remember it was before the show. I was in the first studio. We did the leather pieces, which I so excited to get to work on those. I'm bringing them over to the main studio and the elevator doors open.

00:36:50.240 - 00:37:02.620

It was the week before the show and all these models were there dressed in their John Galliano gowns, and I almost died. They were just so beautiful and so incredible. And I just had never, you know, by that point,

00:37:02.620 - 00:37:19.730

I'd been studying fashion in New York and–and all of this. But all these models dressed up in their John Galliano. I just—God, it was amazing. He didn't end up staying at Oscar, but that only helped drive this passion.

00:37:19.820 - 00:37:36.660

I think there was something going on in Europe, and we can only see so much on TV, on computer screens, by that point, in the magazines. So, I knew I wanted to go to Europe and–and–and study and work under someone to learn the craft

00:37:36.930 - 00:37:56.910

there, but I had no idea how. Being an American, it was like, how are you going to get hired in Europe? So, through some post-school activities, I had had contacts at LVMH and one was my mentor. She kind of helped kind of mentor me a bit after school,

00:37:56.910 - 00:38:06.250

and her name was Marcelle. So, I asked to meet with her and I, and I just was like, "I really want to go to Europe. I want to work. I want to study.

00:38:06.540 - 00:38:21.220

I want to learn there." No, I didn't say I want to study. I wanted to learn there. I wanted to to gain experience. And she was very honest with me. And she was like, "you know, most European companies were,

00:38:21.250 - 00:38:37.970

like, they hire from their interns, like, you're not going to get a job as an American there, unless maybe unless you're extremely experienced and even then it's very difficult," especially at that time. And so I was like, "Well, then what do I need to do to become an intern

00:38:37.970 - 00:38:51.690

there?" Because it's not like, you know, internships in New York at that time were like, you know, everyone's just slave labor. And no, there was no—now it's a little more codified a little bit, but, you know, it's freewheeling there.

00:38:52.250 - 00:39:10.500

Like—no, b-but with French government, it's like, no, you need to have internships or contracts that are paid. And, you know, she explained how they're a contract between the school, a company and the, the intern. So, because at that time o—because that was you needed that and you

00:39:10.500 - 00:39:25.000

needed a visa. So, you need to be able to have an internship. You needed this. So, then the answer is and you need to go to school. And so I said, "Well where should I go to school?" "Well, the best school in Paris is EFM." So, I said, "Okay, great." So, I applied to IFM.

00:39:26.110 - 00:39:37.710

Because it was, like, "Do I go to Central Saint Martins?" That was another obviously hugely famous school for–for fashion design, especially their graduate program. But, you know, but she introduced me to EFM.

00:39:37.710 - 00:39:52.770

I didn't know about it before. And I looked it up and I applied and I got in, and that's how I ended up in Paris. And I upped and I moved, and it

00:39:52.870 - 00:40:08.970

was—I had never thought about going to graduate school at that [00:40:00] point. I was—I went into it thinking, you know, I was so ready, but I just needed the visa. So, I was there to get the visa so that I could,

00:40:10.410 - 00:40:21.630

you know, continue on. But I learned so much while being there, too. And the interesting thing about the IFM program at that time, at least it's a bit different now. You know, our current head of the program is like,

00:40:21.670 - 00:40:38.190

"This is a professionalization program." You know, we spent one portion of the curriculum on the design and our graduate collections. We also spent a lot of it doing projects with brands, doing projects with the schools particularly famous for their management

00:40:38.190 - 00:40:56.030

program, which was created by (?) Because they saw a need for fashion and luxury management. L-Like, people trained in fashion luxury management. So, that was the bigger part of the school. We were the little tiny program.

00:40:56.760 - 00:41:10.500

But being with them and learning a little bit about that side as well. But really they called it a professionalization program, which was really very different and really taught you how to work in the fashion industry and in the luxury fashion industry, which is very specific,

00:41:11.460 - 00:41:30.150

and doing projects with these brands and still focusing on design. And it helped me grow tremendously and really prepared me on what it meant to really work in the industry. So that's Paris. I think you had another part of your question.

00:41:30.150 - 00:41:38.700

Oh, no, that's okay. I just talk a lot. So just. Yeah— No, it's okay. Thank you so much.

00:41:38.700 - 00:41:54.780

And so you also worked at Andre Mazon. Yeah. So–so after IFM, you have to do your internship. Which is why I went there to get the convention discharge so I could do an internship. But before that,

00:41:55.710 - 00:42:09.150

you know, through my other contacts, I ended up actually designing shoes for Prabal Gurung for a bit. Because I learned how to do shoes. I've always kind of drawn shoes, but I learned in IFM that, like, we had a shoe program and I learned I'm actually really good at shoes.

00:42:09.570 - 00:42:27.480

I actually got a job as a shoe designer, even though I was not an accessories design program. So I ended up doing shoes for Prabal Gurung for a bit. Before then I got the internship at Margiela. And, you know, I had a very interesting period of time where obviously

00:42:27.480 - 00:42:42.040

there's lots of brands and I had a very specific and unique portfolio as well. So, finding the place that matched that was also interesting. But I–I also approached it as this, you know, I did this whole thing, I moved here.

00:42:42.250 - 00:42:59.700

I had this plan. You get one convulsion discharge, you get one internship. And I was very nervous, worried that either I wouldn't get the right one or that I would choose the wrong one. There were a couple I did turn down because they weren't either I thought the right fit,

00:43:00.150 - 00:43:20.650

or the one that would lead me to where I went or where I wanted to go. And I remember being on the plane to Copenhagen, I believe, to go visit the saga fur house, because they had sponsored my–the furs in my graduate collection, and they invited me to the fur house,

00:43:22.200 - 00:43:43.660

to have that experience. And that's when I saw the article that said John was going to be appointed creative director of Maison Margiela, and that he was taking—the rumors—that he was taking these designers who had worked with at

00:43:43.680 - 00:44:00.920

Dior, with him, and they were all working there together. I, like, knew in that moment. There was nothing more I wanted than to be there. I remember sitting on that Easyjet plane, just,

00:44:00.920 - 00:44:18.910

like, shaking, brimming with nervousness, excitement that like, this is–this is the thing I've been waiting for. And I went back to Marcelle again, who I knew because she had worked at Dior, which is why she was still at LVMH.

00:44:20.250 - 00:44:40.100

And I asked her to please introduce me to the names of those designers that were on in that article that he was rumoured to have been to be working with and to bring, bring with him to Margiela, which she did. I never heard anything back. It was silence for–for ages.

00:44:40.100 - 00:44:54.300

And I was like, "Oh." And I kept I followed up, I messaged them again. I never heard anything. And then out of the blue, I get a message back. I think it was on LinkedIn.

00:44:55.000 - 00:45:14.700

"Hey, we saw your message or from–from Emma." It was definitely because Emma had recommended me. [00:45:00] And then I was—had an interview. And I obviously this is a long time ago. I don't remember all the details, but it–it led to like,

00:45:14.790 - 00:45:30.580

"Oh, let's get together, like, you know, when can you come in? Can you come in now. X, Y, Z." And I end up there with everything. And I remember walking into the house, like, showing my portfolio, pulling everything out, with Alexander

00:45:31.550 - 00:45:47.940

Wool(?), who was the head of the ready-to-wear, who was the head designer at the time really. Everything, and he became head of the ready-to-wear. And, I remember being so nervous and I think by the, you know, I just sort of pulling out skins,

00:45:47.940 - 00:46:05.470

furs, drawings, everything was just everywhere. I gave it everything I had. And basically by the end, he was just like, "Great. When can you start?" I wasn't even expecting that. I was expecting, "Oh, we'll get—but let you know." It's like,

00:46:06.290 - 00:46:28.090

"Great, sure. Can you–can you start Sunday?" And so, that's how that happened. And, you know, they say a lot about luck. Luck is there for those who are prepared to take it

00:46:29.510 - 00:46:46.950

or to grasp it. You know, I don't know what the quote is, but being prepared for that moment, like, when it happened. Like, you need to be ready to take the opportunities when they come to you. Because they will keep—they will continue to come to you. But if you're not ready,

00:46:46.980 - 00:47:05.600

then there's no—then you're not able to take advantage of it. And I'm so thankful that at that moment I was ready...when the opportunity came. Does that answer your question [laughs]? Thank you. And then what was, like, the most valuable lesson you learned on

00:47:05.720 - 00:47:20.350

the job? Oh my God, so many! I mean, the incredible—the experience to be working with, one, an absolute genius.

00:47:20.910 - 00:47:38.370

Truly a genius. I don't think very many people can say that they get to work and learn from a genius. He is a genius, means a lot of things. It was not always easy, but he was a genius, that alone. And "priceless" isn't even the word.

00:47:40.220 - 00:47:52.300

But then, to also have that person be in many respects, the reason why you became a fashion designer. The reason why you followed the career path that you did. The reason why you fell in love with couture.

00:47:52.640 - 00:48:07.770

To have that person be the person you're working for is–is just a dream that I could not have even dreamed. To say it was a dream come true is an understatement. I don't think I could have ever dreamed that I would get to work

00:48:08.480 - 00:48:23.260

for John Galliano. I just wanted to go there and learn from someone who did couture, learn the craft, could never have imagined, especially at that point. I mean, he hadn't been working for—he had a huge scandal. He was out of the fashion industry. So to...be

00:48:26.780 - 00:48:44.800

able to be there and learn from him was incredible. Obviously, I started out as an intern, but, you know, this was right when they just started at Margiela and there were not a lot of people there. And I became

00:48:44.800 - 00:49:02.140

very close to John very quickly. And part of that, I like to believe, was because I basically had a near encyclopedic knowledge of his work, because I was just—this had been my passion for so

00:49:02.140 - 00:49:18.980

long. I knew—especially for such a young kid and for someone who had never worked for him. The fact that I knew so much about his work, I think, was very impressive to him, because he could reference something, he could say something and I would know exactly what he was talking about because he

00:49:18.980 - 00:49:32.370

likes being around people he knows he's worked, especially at that time. And that I had all of that reference and all of that knowledge, obviously not that background knowledge, but from what I could have, I think it was very impressive,

00:49:33.010 - 00:49:57.690

especially for such a young kid. And that helped a lot. And we became very close, and I ended up becoming his first assistant, and spent pretty much every day of my life with him for two years. There's not a way to say this, "I learned one valuable thing." I mean,

00:49:57.940 - 00:50:14.830

the–the value of [00:50:00] what I learned is just incredible, like, beyond. But I think I often say, "It's just that creativity is the most important thing.

00:50:16.380 - 00:50:33.440

That you can do anything. You can achieve anything is if you–if you are creative." Like you don't need a ton of money. You don't need all—the end of the day creativity is the thing.

00:50:33.620 - 00:50:47.450

Thank you. And you made the decision to return to New York in 2019, so shortly before COVID. And why did you make this decision and how did that impact your journey, launching your own brand?

00:50:48.320 - 00:51:01.420

Well, back to my macro goals [laughs]. I was like, "I'm going to start my brand when I'm 30." So, I was about to turn 30 and I was like, "Okay, I guess this is time." There's a lot of other things that happened in between.

00:51:02.200 - 00:51:19.340

But it just came down to this was the time I set. The timeline I set for myself. I was about to turn 30 in December, and I was like, "Okay, this is when I said I would move back

00:51:19.390 - 00:51:38.030

and start my own brand." At that point, I had actually taken a break from fashion. I had been dancing again and just, you know, enjoying my life in Paris, which was wonderful. Because I—to that point,

00:51:38.240 - 00:51:53.180

I had just been working. So focused towards these goals that it was my first kind of break [laughs]. But it came down to, you know, I was 30. I was like, "This is what I said I would do."

00:51:54.100 - 00:52:08.410

My dad also was not patient anymore with me not doing anything other than dancing all day. So, I was like, "Okay, it's time to go. Let's move back to—what I had always said was go to Paris, learn the craft from a master, come back, start your own brand,

00:52:08.450 - 00:52:25.520

be an American designer." So, I did. Little did I know I had misread my visa because American European dates the month day backwards. As I was leaving, I was like, "Oh, I thought my visa was expiring November 1st.

00:52:25.730 - 00:52:40.940

It was actually expiring January 11th." So, I actually also just got out of the country just in time as my visa was expiring, because I didn't bother to renew it yet. And it all just kind of worked out in that sense at least. But I came back to New York.

00:52:45.620 - 00:53:00.220

To start my own brand. But that took a little longer than I thought. You know, when you get used to having a whole team of people work for you and do things, it's a little different than doing everything yourself, especially starting a company and doing all these things. And this is when I really had

00:53:00.270 - 00:53:15.070

to start to learn what it meant to be an entrepreneur, aside from a designer. So, it took a little longer than expected, which is good and bad, because then I did not launch before COVID happened, because had I launched before COVID, I think it would have been a real disaster

00:53:15.780 - 00:53:33.690

because as we all know, the world shut down. And so I then—but then also I was just stuck in COVID and I didn't have anything to do and I just kept slowly working on the brand. But you know, when you don't know when anything is going to happen,

00:53:33.720 - 00:53:49.380

like, how much do you really work on it? So, it just slowly moving around. I kept teaching more because I moved back and I started teaching as well, and I just kept teaching more. And then at some point we were like, "Okay, COVID is,

00:53:50.750 - 00:54:08.310

you know, we're out of the thick of it and it's just time." So, that was kind of mid-2021 when I was like, "Okay, it's time to go." Finished up that first collection, put it together. Got ready to launch put–put you know PR teams in place.

00:54:08.310 - 00:54:27.290

And we finally launched October 20th, 2021 was the day I opened the collection to the public for the first time, launched my collection. Officially, the first meeting was Vogue.

00:54:30.540 - 00:54:47.420

Unofficially, Taylor Swift's stylist came in the night before while we were setting up because he couldn't come during the–the whole thing. But officially the first meeting on the day that we opened the collection was Vogue, which it does help, I think, to say that when you were at John Galliano's

00:54:47.420 - 00:54:59.950

first assistant to get the attention, and it's crazy because I didn't get to practice at all then. It's my first time doing it with anyone. The first time was going to be Vogue and not just Vogue. Like, the director of Vogue Runway, Nicole Phelps, was coming.

00:55:02.850 - 00:55:19.720

[00:55:00] I was so nervous. I can't even imagine in this moment how nervous I was. I was going to throw up the whole time. But she came 9 a.m. I talked about the clothes. I brought it there, and then my publicist went outside with her and he comes back

00:55:19.820 - 00:55:35.930

in. He's like, "We did it. They'll—they will give you your first feature." So, my first feature that she said she needed some time because they had some other things. But for the rest of the three days it was just fun. We were just meeting people, introducing myself.

00:55:35.980 - 00:55:55.460

But we knew that our first feature was going to be in Vogue. And finally the feature came out. And not only was it an incredible feature written by Nicole Phelps, they gave us center front page of Vogue.com for 24 hours, which was unreal to

00:55:55.500 - 00:56:10.320

think about. Like, I just kept refreshing it to be like, "Is this real? Like, is this still there?" But yeah, for 24 hours it was the lead story on Vogue.com right in the middle, got pushed out to everyone's newsletters. And that's how the brand was launched.

00:56:11.420 - 00:56:26.420

Which is you can't really ask for anything more than that. But yeah, that's how we came back. And then it's been a pretty wild ride since then. A lot of ups and downs.

00:56:27.650 - 00:56:46.500

And here we are, two and a half years later being interviewed for this. Thank you so much. And how would you describe a design philosophy for your brand? Why did you emphasize on unabashed femininity or irreverence?

00:56:46.820 - 00:57:03.400

Yeah. So, unabashed femininity and irreverent glamour. Two, kind of, the big things we use as the pillars of the brand. But it really starts with my quote-unquote manifesto of, "I just want to help women feel beautiful." I believe clothing

00:57:05.300 - 00:57:21.430

has this very special power to make someone feel incredible. And you see it when it happens, like, when someone puts on something, it doesn't matter what it looks like. It's–it's regardless of aesthetic. It's like when someone puts on something that makes

00:57:21.430 - 00:57:36.330

them feel like they can take on the world. It is the most special, incredible moment there. Y-You can just see it in the way they walk. The way they change. That is, it's not just about—for me,

00:57:36.330 - 00:57:51.970

looking beautiful. You can look a certain way, but when you can use your clothes to help someone feel that way, it is very, very special. And so this idea of irreverent glamour and unabashed femininity really comes from

00:57:52.070 - 00:58:08.800

my creative universe and the things that I love and the designers that I have been inspired by, and also my idea, my perception of fashion, which is very influenced, I like to think, by Texas, by the women I grew up around, by the girls I grew up around.

00:58:11.060 - 00:58:28.900

And this idea of glamour is very real here, and it's funny that so many evening or glamorous designers come from Texas. Daniel Roseberry, Brandon Maxwell, Tom Ford, Jackson Bredehoft. A lot of people are doing what is

00:58:29.350 - 00:58:44.360

considered evening or event dressing, or that have this very glamorous aspect to the clothes that they do come from Texas, and I think that's not a coincidence. There's something about—there's something in the water here.

00:58:45.360 - 00:58:58.420

And—but it's about the way women approach dressing and fashion and glamour here. That's very real. And I find it very funny that, you know, by the time I graduated high school, we'd gone to many formals.

00:59:00.380 - 00:59:12.120

I—to think that a lot of like, for example, a lot of students I went to school with at Parsons, maybe the only time they've ever worn formal wear was at prom. That's it. There's no cotillions.

00:59:12.120 - 00:59:33.100

There's no all this other stuff that we—formal wear such a part of our lives, in a sense. But also, again, this approach to glamour. And I think that is very—all of that really influences this idea of irreverent glamour, which really just

00:59:33.100 - 00:59:49.070

comes down to the idea that glamorous dressing doesn't have to be taken so seriously. You know, we love a red gal—red carpet moment. We love a Met Gala moment. But not every time you put on a gown has to be that some people, just—a lot of these

00:59:49.070 - 01:00:06.860

women just need something beautiful to put on that makes them feel amazing so they can go out and have a great time. And that's very alive and well here in Texas. And then unabashed femininity [01:00:00] is just really about the idea that femininity can be strength—is strength.

01:00:07.540 - 01:00:21.790

Femininity is strength. And the signifiers, these classic signifiers of femininity can be strong. They can be like an armor, you know. I reject this notion that you know, a woman has to,

01:00:21.810 - 01:00:37.080

like, dress a certain way to appear strong, whether that's like an 80s power suit with broad shoulders or a dress, or adopt any sort of masculine codes to appear strong. Like bows, a frill, the color pink. All of these can be powerful.

01:00:37.080 - 01:00:57.410

They can be strong. They can be like an armor. I look a lot at even 18th century in these giant dresses that take up space. They impose themselves on the people around them. And it's just the idea that all of these things, considered classically feminine,

01:00:58.690 - 01:01:15.440

do not represent weakness. They do not represent fragility, but they can be a strength. They can be like an armor and to embrace them wholeheartedly. And I think a lot [unintelligible] philosophies.

01:01:15.500 - 01:01:31.540

I love this quote. I believe it's a Balenciaga quote, you know, and I'm going to misquote it terribly, but it's, you know, "To be..." I'm just going to look it up, if you don't mind [KG laughs]. So, I do it

01:01:31.560 - 01:01:57.710

right. Because I always get it wrong. At least the order wrong. And this really came about from my study of haute couture,

01:01:57.910 - 01:02:15.710

which I even did in high school, which is, "A couturier must be an architect for design, a sculptor for shape, a painter for color, a musician for harmony, and a philosopher for temperance." And it's something I should probably remind myself of a little bit more. But

01:02:18.880 - 01:02:33.010

that's–that's, I think, a big part of it. And again, I'm such a student of fashion history. I love studying fashion history, and I love to learn from the people who came before me. And even this idea of irreverent glamour and unabashed femininity also really

01:02:33.010 - 01:02:50.710

comes a lot from another great influence of mine, which was Valentino Garavani and how he approached dressing and glamour, you know, in his—in the height of his powers in fashion. And the–the women he surrounded

01:02:50.730 - 01:03:08.120

himself with and the way he approached their lives and their needs, as did so many designers that I admire. Thank you so much. And If there is a future for a modern version of traditional Asian costumes,

01:03:08.820 - 01:03:20.300

will you ever go to that direction? I think there's always a future. And I don't think it's so black or white. Again, everything influences you.

01:03:20.380 - 01:03:32.080

Everything is a part of it. And it could be my culture. It could be Asian culture at large. Like, one of my now-iconic pieces is this bomber jacket that

01:03:32.150 - 01:03:49.610

I'm wearing, which has a kimono collar on it. Fused with, like, a kind of very couture back shape that comes from, like, a cardin jacket. But interestingly, looking at my own heritage, there are a lot of

01:03:51.330 - 01:04:05.360

Asians in fashion, both Asian American and not like Asian. The Asian influence on fashion is huge. Like, the Asian market has always been big. There have always been Asian designers especially. There was a wave of Asian American designers that came when I was

01:04:05.380 - 01:04:25.690

younger and that I saw them, and I looked up to them and I could see that they were there. Th-They had such a presence. But none of them were ever Vietnamese. And so, of course, there have been Vietnamese fashion designers, but I think that the first one

01:04:25.690 - 01:04:45.910

that really, truly became a part of the mainstream fashion fold was Peter Do. And I think I'm very proud to say that I'm also on my way there, you know, to have been two

01:04:47.730 - 01:05:01.980

Vietnamese designers. And obviously, Peter was born in Vietnam and I was born in Texas. But we both are Vietnamese Americans in a way. Not in a way. We are both Vietnamese [01:05:00] Americans, and it's interesting.

01:05:01.980 - 01:05:24.000

We have both went to Europe and learned from very famous designers and came back. And his work also incorporates so much of his culture. And I remember his first runway show, which he waited ages to do,

01:05:24.070 - 01:05:37.370

and it was such a big deal when he finally did his first runway show. The second look showed his version of it, áo dài, which is Vietnamese traditional dress. It was knit. It was definitely, like, not one that would be immediately

01:05:37.410 - 01:05:52.570

recognized by most people as Vietnamese traditional dress, but it was his interpretation of it. So, when I did my first runway, which was last September in 2023, which was—I also didn't plan to do it so soon. My father passed away and I wanted to do a show as an homage to him.

01:05:53.000 - 01:06:10.860

It felt like the perfect moment to also not only have that runway show, but as my first runway show to bring my interpretation of Vietnamese traditional dress to the runway and to show that. And I think, again, I don't think a lot of people would recognize it.

01:06:14.410 - 01:06:28.900

Unless they were looking for it. It's you don't look at it, you're like, "Oh, that's clearly that." But if you see it and, you know, to look for it, it's kind of amazing. And I know we have a Vietnamese actress who has—will hopefully wear it very soon

01:06:29.560 - 01:06:44.130

because she recognized it as such. But it was my interpretation. So, the question is, what is modern traditional dress and how far away can you get from the tradition of it and have it still be considered that?

01:06:44.730 - 01:06:58.390

I-If I tell you something is inspired by this and this is my version of it, like who's, who has any right to tell me that it's not? For me, it's a tunic over pants and that–that for me, that's the essential part of what

01:07:00.090 - 01:07:12.780

áo dài is. Do I think Vietnamese women all over Vietnam are going to be wearing it to, you know, on New Year's Day? No, I don't think so, because it is my interpretation.

01:07:12.780 - 01:07:30.110

It is. But the question of what is a modern interpretation of traditional dress is very open. And so that question—I think it's always there because, you know. Not to say that you're always influenced by that thing in particular, but people are always

01:07:30.760 - 01:07:46.440

influenced by the world around them, by their, again, their creative universe. And you can't necessarily divorce your identity from your creative universe. You just can't. Your relationship to that identity is different from anyone else's.

01:07:47.230 - 01:08:00.950

What that relationship to that identity is and what you take from that and from your culture or your identity, whatever it is that's personal to you. But you can't just ignore it. It's never going to be something that just is divorced and ignored from it. So, whatever

01:08:00.950 - 01:08:17.780

happens, whatever it takes from it, I think is always there. And it's up for designers to choose how they want to engage with that. But I think that will always—I don't think that's even really a necessary delineation. I think it's just it will always be—and of course,

01:08:17.830 - 01:08:32.230

there's room. There's always room, because it will always be there. Culture will always be important. Where you come from is always going to influence your creative universe, I think. Thank you so much. And do you mind if we go over?

01:08:32.680 - 01:08:40.610

Yeah, yeah. Keep going. Okay. So we're probably going to talk about more about identity in a bit and— Isn't that what we're really here to discuss?

01:08:40.610 - 01:08:54.860

Okay. So, to start how do you identify yourself I—ethnically? BM: Ethnically? So I'm ethnically Vietnamese. I'm a Vietnamese American slash Texan.

01:08:56.530 - 01:09:11.630

Very–very Texan thing to say that I'm just as much a Texan as I am an American, but–but a Vietnamese heritage. Thank you. And what do you—what do you feel most proud of?

01:09:11.840 - 01:09:25.270

What do I feel most proud of out of? I'm proud of everything. I love all that I am. I'm proud to be Vietnamese. I'm proud to be from Texas. I'm proud to be an American. I'm proud to be human.

01:09:26.090 - 01:09:40.870

I don't think there's anything I'm more proud of than anything else. I think I'm proud of myself as a whole, because these are all parts of who I am, and they're all jumbled in there and are very important to me and my creative universe.

01:09:40.980 - 01:10:05.840

Thank you. And when and where do you feel most at home? Hmm. That's a more complicated question. When and where? This [01:10:00] is the thing about immigrant

01:10:06.850 - 01:10:32.970

identities. You are in many ways so divided amongst all of—as I said, I'm proud of all of them. But there's very few instances where I'm in a place where everything applies. When I'm in Asia,

01:10:32.970 - 01:10:49.350

I'm an American. When I'm here, I am an Asian-American, not part of the majority. When I was in France, I was Asian and an American and just a

01:10:49.390 - 01:11:09.610

foreigner overall, not French. There are very few. I-Is there anywhere that I feel truly at home? I would say no. If anywhere. But also, I don't feel not at home in many places.

01:11:12.220 - 01:11:25.450

New York, wonderful melting pot of a city. I feel at home. I feel like a New Yorker now, too, because I've lived there for so long. But I also feel at home here in Houston and in Texas. But do I ever feel completely at home?

01:11:25.640 - 01:11:40.090

No. And I think that's also very important to what it means to be, you know, the child of immigrants, what it means to be Asian American,

01:11:40.360 - 01:11:57.570

what it means to be here, to be living here. Oddly enough, and maybe it was because it was, like, after COVID. But I like to tell the story often about

01:11:58.580 - 01:12:19.070

Hawaii, which was not to say that I felt completely at home there, because I'm not from Hawaii, but it is one of the only times I felt pretty—in at least a superficial sense—at home. I think when we talk about how do I feel at home in Houston or in New York,

01:12:19.070 - 01:12:36.330

or these are deeper questions of what it means to feel at home. But superficially, I was very shocked at how at home I felt in Hawaii because I didn't expect it. And I don't think people discuss enough about this. So, Hawaii is very interesting, and I'd never been there until after,

01:12:36.330 - 01:12:52.270

you know, they just opened up for COVID, and I was like, "I'm going to go." My friend invited me to go and I went. It was so interesting to be in a place that in many ways

01:12:52.270 - 01:13:03.630

was very American. We have very—they have very American—aside from obviously, Hawaii's gorgeous. It's paradise. There's beauty everywhere. It's, you know, stunning tropical island.

01:13:04.050 - 01:13:20.670

But really talking about the culture and the—of Hawaii and what it means to be there, aside from just the beautiful beaches. You're very much in America. The infrastructure is very American. The street signs and the highway signs are American.

01:13:20.780 - 01:13:38.190

They look like—they look like in America. They look like as if I was driving just down the street here in Houston. They're the same signs, the same kind of infrastructure. And also, having lived in France and lived, lived in and traveled in Asia and Europe, you know that countries and different, they all have their own infrastructure,

01:13:38.360 - 01:13:50.260

the way they organize things. It's very unique to whatever the urban planning of that country or of that location. Very, very American in Hawaii.

01:13:50.490 - 01:14:04.760

Shockingly so, because you're on this beautiful tropical island. But then it's, like, the same street signs, the same way the highways are built, the same way the roads are built, because it's America. You have these strip malls, very American, with like,

01:14:05.180 - 01:14:17.470

just like you're driving down Westheimer here, like strip malls with. It's just a way of organizing that was very, very American. And you're using American money, which you'd be very surprised at how much

01:14:17.470 - 01:14:31.740

like just even the currency you use is very significant in how you identify with a place. But, like, here, we're using American money. Everything has very American feel. These big parking lots with strip malls and these street signs,

01:14:31.790 - 01:14:47.960

and everyone speaks English. But everyone is Asian. That was really an interesting experience for me that, like, the locals, there were Asian.

01:14:48.730 - 01:15:05.500

Obviously, they're South Pacific, but obviously with Hawaii you have a lot of different Asians that come there and live. And but the–the thing was, the majority of the locals [01:15:00] looked like me, but they were also American. They also used American money,

01:15:05.550 - 01:15:21.750

and they also lived in a place that was very distinctly American. And it didn't help that they also all loved the same food that I love, because Asians love food. And, you know, I could eat spam musubi every day. And they loved—Asian food was everywhere.

01:15:21.750 - 01:15:40.840

But it was such an integral part of the culture because that's what the people who lived there eat and fruits and all these, it's just such an—and I realized for the first time that I was in a society, I was in a place that was actually in many ways,

01:15:41.660 - 01:15:56.630

the only Asian American, like, culture bubble, like, this is a place that is deeply rooted in both being Asian and American. And that was the majority.

01:15:57.610 - 01:16:11.620

And that was—and again, I speak about this in a very superficial way, because obviously I'm not Hawaiian and I don't connect with them in that cultural sense. It was just in a very superficial sense to be, like, whether, as opposed to like going to Vietnam,

01:16:11.640 - 01:16:29.370

where I'm still an American, or being this or going to anywhere else. It's like—I mean, I was in a place in a culture where the majority of people and the customs and the things around you, everything was very rooted in being Asian and American.

01:16:30.030 - 01:16:43.280

And that I thought was like more than the beautiful beaches, more than the scenery, more than all of this was the most profound experience I had in Hawaii. [KG: Thank you.] It's a very unique answer, [laughs] I'm sure.

01:16:44.800 - 01:17:05.580

And have you ever encountered, like, unique challenges or opportunities as an Asian American fashion designer? I mean, sure, I think everyone faces challenges. The interesting thing about fashion is that Asians and Asian Americans are so have been a

01:17:05.580 - 01:17:24.000

part of fashion for so long that, th-that you're not really that much of an outsider. When you're of Asian descent, you still are a little bit. I'm not to say that it's not—because fashion in general is still very much—as

01:17:26.100 - 01:17:40.890

a whole, fashion is still very much led by the West and by Europe. I mean, really, Europe is still the leader for fashion, these big houses. But at least in the New York fashion industry, Asians and Asian Americans are very a big part of that industry,

01:17:41.290 - 01:18:01.470

so that has never been somewhere I think I've felt like an outsider. And even in Europe there are a lot of Asians working in the fashion industry, but they're definitely not as many at the top, leading these houses or working in the boardroom.

01:18:01.660 - 01:18:17.870

But I do think that—I can't really pinpoint discrimination. Did it probably happen? Maybe. But, not

01:18:21.290 - 01:18:42.480

that I've been super aware of, at least. And, yeah, th-they're Asians are just so deeply entrenched in the fashion industry as a whole that it's...Probably, yes. But I can't say that.

01:18:42.500 - 01:18:56.270

Like, it's, like, something that I felt very, acutely have experienced. Thank you so much. And what advice would you give to an Asian American who is new to the field of fashion design?

01:18:56.790 - 01:19:15.510

Work. Work really hard [laughs]. It—I think a lot about this quote that I had known from Tom Ford when I was younger,

01:19:15.580 - 01:19:36.860

when I was in high school. "If there's anything else you can do and be happy, do that instead. But if the answer is no, then go for it." It requires such an intense amount of work and sacrifice and motivation and drive

01:19:37.040 - 01:19:54.870

and just endless pursuit. It's hard. It's very hard. And I am lucky in many ways to have had a family and a father who has supported this dream of mine

01:19:57.500 - 01:20:11.300

wholeheartedly. They never questioned—my [01:20:00] father, never questioned, never tried to hold me back. He really allowed me to pursue this dream. And supported me on that.

01:20:12.510 - 01:20:30.900

Which is just so incredible. You know, I read a lot about or hear a lot about other Asian American people who don't have that kind of support from their families because they try to push them into again,

01:20:30.920 - 01:20:45.120

of doctor, lawyer, whatever. I never had that. And I'm so thankful for that. It was—it also shows you like what you can achieve when you have that kind of support from your family.

01:20:46.070 - 01:21:05.810

I—my father passed away last year, and a big part of my understanding of him when I wrote the eulogy, you know, he originally studied to become an architect. He was working as an architect when, you know, the war ended and–and he had to

01:21:06.900 - 01:21:25.410

quit his post and support his family by selling medicine on the black market and doing whatever they could to make ends meet. You know, a very large family. And he was suddenly the head of that family after the loss of his father. And that was

01:21:25.410 - 01:21:42.920

something he took on the mantle of his entire life. He moved here to Houston, went to school, got his degree, got a job. Slowly kept supporting his brothers and sisters as they, one by one came over to the US.

01:21:45.890 - 01:22:01.930

And my realization, I think, was that, you know, he did all of that out of duty, I believe, out of love, out of obligation to–to ensure that his family, that his loved ones could survive, could thrive,

01:22:01.970 - 01:22:27.390

could build a life for themselves, myself included. And what I realize also is that. What he gave me was the freedom to

01:22:27.390 - 01:22:44.390

pursue what I wanted to pursue what I love, to pursue my passion, which is something his circumstances did not give him. He was an immigrant. He had a family to care for. There was a lot of responsibility on his shoulders.

01:22:45.580 - 01:23:06.880

And so he did have to do what needed to be done to–to ensure the survival of himself and his family and his loved ones. But in return, the gift he gave me was the freedom to follow my passion, to follow my heart, and to do what I wanted.

01:23:08.500 - 01:23:25.130

And that is really such an amazing gift and such, such a valuable thing that I cannot thank him enough for, really, because then you hear so much about that, the pressures of what it means to not just be an Asian American,

01:23:25.150 - 01:23:38.910

but a child of immigrants to have parents that are struggling to make ends meet or to–to build a life for them, for their families, for generations to come. And that kind of freedom, that kind of understanding

01:23:40.620 - 01:23:59.550

that to allow me to be myself. To be who I was. And to pursue what I wanted, I think is such an amazing gift. Thank you so much. And is there anything you would like to share that we haven't covered

01:23:59.550 - 01:24:08.840

yet? I think we talked about a lot of stuff. I mean, there's always more. But, no I think that's that. That's a lot. I hope it's helpful.

01:24:10.070 - 01:24:28.030

I think it's a unique story in many ways. I mean, we could talk about Subtle Asian traits all day, but it can be very heartbreaking sometimes to read about how many Asian creatives are held back because of the lack of support from their family or

01:24:28.050 - 01:24:48.500

pressures. And just to show that what you can achieve when you have that kind of same drive and support from your family, to pursue, you know, careers or paths outside of just, you know, the stereotypical.